Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. Caitlin and I
Speaker 2: are back together. We had a little of sabbatical last week.
Speaker 2: Hope you didn't mind.
Speaker 1: You were on school holiday.
Speaker 2: Where were you?
Speaker 1: I was a tennis camp with my family.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's allowed. I was just chilling.
Speaker 1: Actually, that's you deserve that.
Speaker 2: I thank you. I do deserve that from time to time.
Speaker 2: But we are back. We are back in regards to
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. Let's talk about the last
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. But more importantly, there was a lot
Speaker 2: of very interesting results this past week, including before we
Speaker 2: get to anything, the fact that Germany took an entire
Speaker 2: day off at a tournament for Easter.
Speaker 1: Didn't realize Germany was that Catholic. Well, apparently to be
Speaker 1: off for a good Friday, because I was like, this
Speaker 1: is your prime time, this is SAMI finals day. They
Speaker 1: just skipped d Do they always do that? District? I
Speaker 1: always sky.
Speaker 2: I don't remember Easter moves around, right, Great, you don't
Speaker 2: know remember the whole Biden situation where they had trans
Speaker 2: Visibility Day and it was on the same day as
Speaker 2: Easter Sunday, and what the people in the right, lost
Speaker 2: their money. I lost their mind and their money. Oh
Speaker 2: I'm losing my money right now looking at the stock market.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they all lost their mind because they're like,
Speaker 2: how can Biden do that? It's like, well, Easter, he
Speaker 2: comes around and changes all the time, and it just
Speaker 2: so happens. It was on trans visibility Day, so he
Speaker 2: honored both, which is what the president is supposed to do.
Speaker 1: The normal presidents do that. I was shocked because it
Speaker 1: was a Monday final, which meant that we did not
Speaker 1: know the results of Schuecoat until this morning on Monday.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, like, I mean listen, I'm all
Speaker 2: for it, like celebrating Easter. And I had an amazing
Speaker 2: event last night that I went to. It was called
Speaker 2: later Sata. I had my Jewish friends here in New
Speaker 2: York invited me for this really fun event and it
Speaker 2: was great. And like everyone like, I'm all for people
Speaker 2: celebrating way they want to celebrate. You're a party gal,
Speaker 2: But to take a whole day off a tennis tournament for.
Speaker 1: Well, one thing. I was thinking to myself when I
Speaker 1: was watching Carlos Alcaraz and Holgaruna play in Barcelona in
Speaker 1: their final, which we will talk about on Sunday. On
Speaker 1: Sunday is you know I've lived in Spain. I love Spain.
Speaker 1: They are very very progressive there, but they're also a
Speaker 1: majority Catholic country. And I played, Oh, this is interesting
Speaker 1: that they are playing on Easter. They played on good Friday.
Speaker 1: And Germany, which is not I just think of Germany
Speaker 1: as like very secular.
Speaker 2: Apparently from our very German cohort, Trya Pekovich, Apparently that
Speaker 2: area Stuttgart is quite Catholic and conservatives.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, that makes more sense because that's why I
Speaker 1: don't think they were shutting down stuff in Berlin on Friday.
Speaker 2: No, but I just don't even remember that happened. I
Speaker 2: don't think i've ever heard that in a tennis event.
Speaker 2: And I played a long time, and I played over Easter.
Speaker 1: I was shocked to see no tennis on my TV
Speaker 1: from Stutgart on Friday. Yeah, but I was very happy to.
Speaker 2: And I was like, did it rain? And I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: it's indoors.
Speaker 1: Great, it's indoors. I was happy to have a little
Speaker 1: extra tennis on Monday morning from Stutgart. A final. Usually
Speaker 1: you just see the beginning rounds of a tournament shall
Speaker 1: we start with Stugart as a result, and Sugar, let's.
Speaker 2: Get to it. Let's get let's get to and then
Speaker 2: we're going to get to some really sort of funny
Speaker 2: things that happened also in the tennis world this past
Speaker 2: week or so. But Elena Alona Osta Penco, like when
Speaker 2: she's on, forget it seriously, like she's that type of
Speaker 2: player that you just pray and hope that she has
Speaker 2: one of those days and just things don't really go
Speaker 2: her way and then it can be pretty horrendous the
Speaker 2: tennis that she plays. But when she's on and she's
Speaker 2: confident and especially indoors, okay. And also this court suits
Speaker 2: her because it's a bit of a slippery clay court.
Speaker 2: It's not great for footing. Like, you know, even even
Speaker 2: the great movers, and arguably Eagerciante is by far the
Speaker 2: best mover on clay, and Coco Gough you see them,
Speaker 2: they're kind of slipping a little bit. They don't really
Speaker 2: have that same ability to slide and be controlled into
Speaker 2: the shot and you're a little bit It's kind of
Speaker 2: like how Charleston as Charleston is also very so brief.
Speaker 1: Aus of the hard true being a different.
Speaker 2: In particular, it's pretty well. I've played on them both.
Speaker 2: I did not play on Stuttgart's hard court. It was
Speaker 2: I played it when I was a hard court tournament,
Speaker 2: so clearly the footing was much better.
Speaker 1: But now that you say that, Sugart has been the
Speaker 1: scene to some horrific, horrific injuries actually on the women's tour.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking actually of a friend after a Packvich I
Speaker 1: think had to pull out of a tournament, had to
Speaker 1: put out of the tournament a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: with a high ankle spring. I feel like I was
Speaker 1: one of the worst injuries I've ever seen. So maybe
Speaker 1: there is something to the fact that it's slippery in
Speaker 1: there and indoor clay, I don't know indoor clear I
Speaker 1: think it strange.
Speaker 2: I think what it is is is when you do
Speaker 2: an indoor clay court like that, that is a they're
Speaker 2: bringing the clay in and they're laying it down over
Speaker 2: a certain amount of time and hoping it settles and
Speaker 2: then they play. Whereas when you're playing outside on a
Speaker 2: clay court that is like a Barcelona or a Munich
Speaker 2: or any of these other tournaments, those clay courts are
Speaker 2: there all year long. They're being played on all the time,
Speaker 2: they're getting warded all the time, getting packed down all
Speaker 2: the time, they're getting you know, rolled all the time.
Speaker 2: So they're a perfect clay court. So when the ball
Speaker 2: when you're sliding, it's the same feel, whereas indoors they're
Speaker 2: sort of laying that down and it's kind of just
Speaker 2: like it's not really the same anyway. Having said that,
Speaker 2: Ostapenko's game lends itself really well to that because she
Speaker 2: serves big and she hits it into the corners hard,
Speaker 2: and it's not as easy. Like if Eager was ever
Speaker 2: going to play on clay court, which most of us
Speaker 2: would say, if she was going to beat Ostapenko, it
Speaker 2: would be on a clay.
Speaker 1: Court, right absolutely.
Speaker 2: But if there was a clay court for her to not.
Speaker 1: Play her on, it would be this one.
Speaker 2: It would be this wise, And so I think that's
Speaker 2: why it wasn't that big of a shot that Eager
Speaker 2: did lose to her on clay. Even though now it's
Speaker 2: zero and six, it's starting to be a little mental,
Speaker 2: but it's also that surface that clay court did not
Speaker 2: suit Eager. It'll be interesting because they're going to play
Speaker 2: each other if they win their subsequent rounds in Madrid
Speaker 2: this week again not ideal for Eager. It's a little
Speaker 2: altitude and Madrid, so that ball does like fly on you.
Speaker 2: The serve is important and the biggest issue for me
Speaker 2: if we go back before Ostapenco beating Saberlenca, etc. The
Speaker 2: biggest issue for me when Eager plays her is the
Speaker 2: serve is so vulnerable, and I have talked about this
Speaker 2: ad nauseum and I will talk about it when it
Speaker 2: comes to players like Eger, when it comes to players
Speaker 2: like Coco. The serve is so bloody important, and Eager
Speaker 2: hits the same serve almost every time on the second serve.
Speaker 2: It's that kickserve that goes right into Ostapenko's best shot
Speaker 2: her backhand. She's deadly on the returns. Eager has got
Speaker 2: to figure out a better way to get more first
Speaker 2: serves in the court. Her service motion is so discombobulated,
Speaker 2: there's no fluidity to it, and you know when she
Speaker 2: hits it well, she hits it really well. And you've
Speaker 2: got to serve well against Ostapenco because if you don't,
Speaker 2: she's crushing returns on you, and she can serve you
Speaker 2: off the court as well, because indoors, particularly os Penko
Speaker 2: serves well.
Speaker 1: So here's a question that we got into it a
Speaker 1: little bit over the weekend because there's so many people
Speaker 1: who've been watching the Osta Penco Schiantech matchup for years
Speaker 1: now and sort of marveling that there is such a
Speaker 1: lop seted head to head. One thing that's you know,
Speaker 1: you started the show by saying, you know, if Ostapenko
Speaker 1: is on watch out, sure, but the truth is Elene
Speaker 1: Ostapenko is not on all the time. Otherwise she would
Speaker 1: be winning more than one Grand Slam and winning more
Speaker 1: than you know, one tournament a year basically, which is
Speaker 1: kind of where she's netting out, which is not bad.
Speaker 1: I take that career in urbeat but well, you know, sure,
Speaker 1: but there does seem something particular about this matchup if
Speaker 1: some of us find it sort of comical or nuts
Speaker 1: or unexpected. But because you have coached against and with
Speaker 1: players who have maybe matchups that are certainly unfavorable and
Speaker 1: at a certain point become a little bit mental, which
Speaker 1: I have to imagine, you know.
Speaker 2: One of the face wife. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the folks that I that I talk to
Speaker 1: a lot on the is Anaesthesia from the grounds pass podcast,
Speaker 1: and she was like, you know, maybe I'm just crazy,
Speaker 1: but it looked like Ego went out there and was
Speaker 1: sort of expecting to lose, and the fact that she
Speaker 1: got three sets was actually sort of positive. You know,
Speaker 1: there's so much fraughtness about this particular matchup that, yes,
Speaker 1: of course youlln ask to pink A one on to
Speaker 1: beat her innes Abalanca in a pretty you know, close
Speaker 1: but decided affair today, But like, what is it about
Speaker 1: that matchup other than you know, the server you know,
Speaker 1: talking to me about how important sort of matchups are
Speaker 1: and why this is maybe something that's festered between the
Speaker 1: two of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, it's it's always going to be a matchup.
Speaker 2: It's always going to be how someone plays, you know,
Speaker 2: whether it be myself. In my playing days, you would
Speaker 2: walk on a certain court against a certain play and
Speaker 2: just be like, I have their number, I know exactly
Speaker 2: what they do under pressure, I know exactly what I
Speaker 2: can do under pressure against them to hurt them. And
Speaker 2: so there's that sense of comfort level when you walk
Speaker 2: on the court knowing that your best or your you
Speaker 2: know a game will always beat their a game. And
Speaker 2: that's a good feeling, right, So Ostapenko knows that she
Speaker 2: is going to take advantage of the second serves. That's
Speaker 2: for one. She knows that if egg is not controlling
Speaker 2: the point, she's not a great defender, particular on the
Speaker 2: forehand side. And so you know, oster Penko uses her
Speaker 2: flat ball striking and aggressive play. And also Ostapenko and
Speaker 2: I have coached against her a bunch of times. She
Speaker 2: is a play that you go, Mmm, what's her strengths
Speaker 2: and weaknesses and where does she go under pressure? And
Speaker 2: a lot of coaches will tell you that they don't
Speaker 2: really know, you know, because she she has a tendsity
Speaker 2: like the forehand cross call, there's no question about that.
Speaker 2: But then she can pop one down the line and
Speaker 2: you're like, Jesus, where does that come from? And it
Speaker 2: could be on the biggest point of the match. So
Speaker 2: the unpredictability of how she plays is actually such a
Speaker 2: positive thing for her. And it's honestly, it's what I
Speaker 2: like about her game. And I realize she has a
Speaker 2: lot of haters and a lot of sometimes you don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't even know if she thinks she knows where
Speaker 2: she's going with it.
Speaker 1: Like I like watching her because she's a chaos. She's
Speaker 1: a chaos agent. That's what I like. I recognize that
Speaker 1: it's not that you know, enjoyable probably to play against.
Speaker 1: But also I think you're right, she doesn't necessarily know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she doesn't seem that connected to reality in always.
Speaker 2: And I want to see eager start producing a little
Speaker 2: bit of a variety when she plays against her. I
Speaker 2: didn't see one drop shot. I didn't see one attempted
Speaker 2: real slice. There's no attempt now it is let me backtrack.
Speaker 2: It is not easy to do that against Ostapenko. She's
Speaker 2: hitting the ball so hard and flat immediately. But there
Speaker 2: were times where I felt she could have done a
Speaker 2: drop shot, hit a bit of a different shot, and
Speaker 2: she chose not to. There was a huge point in
Speaker 2: the third set to go. I think it may have
Speaker 2: been to even it up in the third set when
Speaker 2: she went down that break and she had a second
Speaker 2: serve backhand, I think it was maybe to go fifteen forty,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And she chose to go for her backhand
Speaker 2: down the line, which is a very good shot for her.
Speaker 2: But every now and again to see her do it
Speaker 2: on Shaburt just like hit a little drop shot off
Speaker 2: that return you know, Ostapenko's running backwards. She's not a
Speaker 2: great mover on plays, She's definitely not a great mover.
Speaker 2: So you've got to get her moving. And sometimes you've
Speaker 2: got to get her moving in uncomfortable areas on the court,
Speaker 2: like slice the ball, short drop shot once or twice
Speaker 2: in your life in a match, because when you become predictable,
Speaker 2: that's predictable for them to be able to read what
Speaker 2: you're doing. Offer them return all the things, and Eager
Speaker 2: made some really bad bad choices of shot and bad
Speaker 2: errors in the third set, particularly offer a turn like
Speaker 2: she'd be getting into the third set or getting into
Speaker 2: the game, it'd be fifteen thirty on Ostabenko serve or
Speaker 2: fifteen you know, love thirty and she would just miss
Speaker 2: a return, and it's just like what is that? And
Speaker 2: that is pressure because she knows if I don't hit
Speaker 2: a great shot, she's going to hit a winner. But
Speaker 2: sometimes you have to force your opponent, particularly in really
Speaker 2: critical moments, to hit a winner. And it was very
Speaker 2: similar to what Runa did to Alcharz today. We'll get
Speaker 2: into that, but I just feel like Eger panics. She
Speaker 2: doesn't play the ball behind Ostapenco enough. She doesn't play
Speaker 2: enough variety. She doesn't hit a couple of high balls
Speaker 2: like Ostabenka loves the ball in her hitting zone, get
Speaker 2: it above her shoulder, particularly on the forehand. She doesn't
Speaker 2: like that shot. But she doesn't try the variety.
Speaker 1: So the next time they're projected to play and I
Speaker 1: don't like doing the like, well, you know, they're probably
Speaker 1: gonna beat in the quarterfinals. They'll probably, you know, because
Speaker 1: I feel like tennis, one of the things we like
Speaker 1: about it, right, I like about it is it's so unpredictable,
Speaker 1: you don't know, you know, making projections into the semis
Speaker 1: and finals just feels like an exercise and stupidity. But
Speaker 1: there's a chance they could play again very soon.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: On this surface, which is also Madrid at elevation, is
Speaker 1: a fast court, which even though it's clay, will probably
Speaker 1: also favor well, it's certainly what they do play.
Speaker 2: It won't be a massive like if it will be
Speaker 2: the play against Ostapenko on in Rome or in Paris,
Speaker 2: I think it will be a different result. But if
Speaker 2: I was coaching her and we got sort of getting
Speaker 2: to this before we started the pod, is that how
Speaker 2: do you change that mindset for the player, and it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a you know, a reset in their
Speaker 2: own brains. And I would say to her, look all
Speaker 2: these other times before you've done this, you've done that,
Speaker 2: you've tried this. You need to go out there without
Speaker 2: a doubt in your mind that you're winning this match.
Speaker 2: And you know, I had a situation where I was
Speaker 2: coaching Carolina Plushkov and she had lost many, many many
Speaker 2: times to Petrik Vitevaunt her country rooman. They played a
Speaker 2: club levels. They weren't exactly great friends. They you know,
Speaker 2: she didn't necessarily like losing. And I gave Carolina three
Speaker 2: things only to think about in that match. I wanted
Speaker 2: her to cover a certain forehand, I wanted her to
Speaker 2: cover a certain serve on a big point, and I
Speaker 2: wanted her to hit it to one spot in particular.
Speaker 2: And I literally gave her two or three things, and
Speaker 2: I said, and you're not losing this fucking match today,
Speaker 2: Like no, And even her husband said to me, what
Speaker 2: do you think? You know, he would always sort of
Speaker 2: say what do you think? And clearly I was always
Speaker 2: positive with ever whoever she played, But I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: she's winning today. And he looked at me, are you serious.
Speaker 2: I go, oh, yeah, she's winning today, because I knew
Speaker 2: that there was two shots that Petra particularly liked. And
Speaker 2: I think that once you know that, it's sort of
Speaker 2: like knowing what your opponent's strengths and weaknesses are. When
Speaker 2: you walk on the court, you know what they're going
Speaker 2: to do and you think, oh, oh, I've got that.
Speaker 2: And I think that that helped in the very first
Speaker 2: game when Petra, you know, hit a certain shot or
Speaker 2: two and it was almost like Carolina looked at me like, oh,
Speaker 2: I've got this. So you've got to be very very
Speaker 2: positive to your player, tell them one or two things
Speaker 2: and tell them you're not losing this fucking match today,
Speaker 2: And that's the way you have to be. I would
Speaker 2: be with Eager. I would give her two or three things.
Speaker 2: I would definitely tell her to hit some drop shots
Speaker 2: more and make her move and hit some angles, get
Speaker 2: her off the court, and then drive the ball. But
Speaker 2: if you're going to just try and hit with her,
Speaker 2: you're not going to win.
Speaker 1: Last thing and your serve.
Speaker 2: You've got to change your surf.
Speaker 1: So yeah, last thing, I need to because some of
Speaker 1: the things you talked about, and I was asking about,
Speaker 1: were like a matchup specific strategy. More broadly, you know,
Speaker 1: I think obviously this is the part of the season
Speaker 1: that Ega tends to emerge as our dominant. Obviously clay
Speaker 1: quarter she's got, you know, some competition maybe from the
Speaker 1: Elena's Fidelina's of the world at the Cocoa Goths. You know,
Speaker 1: it was nice to see Mukova obviously get to the
Speaker 1: French Open final last year. But by and large, like
Speaker 1: when the clay season goes outdoors to a slower surface,
Speaker 1: it's egos to lose any concern for you with EGA's
Speaker 1: play so far this year, this isn't typically when she
Speaker 1: does that. Well anyway, she doesn't typically have a good
Speaker 1: Australia or a good Middle East. She doesn't you know typically,
Speaker 1: But yeah, like between that hardcourt season, she said, periods
Speaker 1: in the Sunshine doubles, you'd want her to, I think,
Speaker 1: be better looking than she has looked so far this year.
Speaker 1: Well for sure, any.
Speaker 2: Look at two three years ago she had a thirty
Speaker 2: seven match win streak, right, I mean from the Straina Open,
Speaker 2: the moment esh Body pulled out as number one player
Speaker 2: in the world, eager one, you know, Indian Wells Miami,
Speaker 2: every Clay caught tournament, the French Open, she was on fire.
Speaker 2: So you can't say it is starting to okay. I
Speaker 2: call it plak on the brain. Right when you have
Speaker 2: a little bit of you know, where you're not confident,
Speaker 2: you start there's little things that start getting into your
Speaker 2: brain and you got to chip away at them. And
Speaker 2: so you got to chip away at this eager match
Speaker 2: up with with Ostar pan Cope in some way. But
Speaker 2: a lot of it is she now has this like
Speaker 2: scared feeling of I'm not winning what I should be
Speaker 2: winning and I'm not getting the wins on Clay. What's
Speaker 2: happening to me? And so I is there concern? Yeah? Absolutely,
Speaker 2: I think there's a little bit of concern. Can she
Speaker 2: get it back and write the Ship in Madrid, Rome
Speaker 2: and the French for sure? But if she doesn't, yes,
Speaker 2: I do worry about her psyche going forward because her
Speaker 2: game is so predicated on confidence, and that's where I
Speaker 2: would like to see her get a little bit more variety,
Speaker 2: because when game plan A is not on, she can
Speaker 2: start tapping into game plan B and see and it's
Speaker 2: it's it does It confuses me because she started the
Speaker 2: year so well, like that match she played against Keys,
Speaker 2: And I talked about this with Petgirl a couple of
Speaker 2: weeks ago. I think that lost to Keys has really
Speaker 2: hurt her this year. A sliding door moment of that
Speaker 2: might have been a sliding door of twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: the beginning of it, because if she wins that match,
Speaker 2: maybe even if she loses in the final, I don't
Speaker 2: think that would have bothered her that much. Losing to
Speaker 2: Sabalanc in the finals the strain open. Just getting to
Speaker 2: the final would have been a thing for her. But
Speaker 2: having a match point and losing that, I don't know,
Speaker 2: that has sort of put a little chip or a
Speaker 2: little park in the brain. Maybe she's lost the confidence
Speaker 2: to finish matches or I don't know, because.
Speaker 1: She's definitely one of the more mental players, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, I'm confident Topeka, who just
Speaker 1: looks like she's literally kind of just hitting balls and
Speaker 1: whatever happens happens.
Speaker 2: It's a different pressure level too, Let's be on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's easy to go out and take out a
Speaker 1: one seed when you have no pressure and everyone's sort
Speaker 1: of you know, you can smile. I mean, even in
Speaker 1: the Magic against Sablenkaaka had all the pressure then has
Speaker 1: to pick all with house money for sure, Whereas Ego,
Speaker 1: I think she has a lot of expectations, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think compounded by the fact that she's already
Speaker 1: a player who's like pretty mentally, you know, on or off,
Speaker 1: and I think that.
Speaker 2: Sort of believes that she's going to beat everybody on
Speaker 2: any day, whether she goes or not.
Speaker 1: She doesn't.
Speaker 2: She's like, well, it was just me. I played terrible.
Speaker 2: It's never about her opponent playing well. She's either I
Speaker 2: played great and I won. Yeah, you know, never never
Speaker 2: mind the fact that they played like crap. She played great.
Speaker 2: That type, but she is that type of player, and
Speaker 2: if she loses, it's because she played terrible.
Speaker 1: It's never her string.
Speaker 2: It's always on her strings. Wh to be honest with you,
Speaker 2: a lot of time. But also there are times where
Speaker 2: you hit a shot that was just so dumb as well,
Speaker 2: like but she doesn't look at it like that.
Speaker 1: So the delusional part of her ballroom dancing career with
Speaker 1: this amount of delusion public do you think she's like,
Speaker 1: I am the world's greatest dancer.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, one hundred pc.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: I mean, but that, you know, the ego, the ego
Speaker 2: fesst out in the final today with Sablenca, because let's
Speaker 2: face it, Arena definitely has her own, like behind the
Speaker 2: shit kind of feeling, and she should, by the way,
Speaker 2: beause she's arguably the best play in the world. But
Speaker 2: at the same time today I think a little bit
Speaker 2: of horse's mental as well in Stuttgart, having lost in
Speaker 2: the final so many times there that I actually think
Speaker 2: that hurt her today.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, you know, Arena Sablinka doesn't
Speaker 1: usually suffer in the self confidence department, until all of
Speaker 1: a sudden she does, and that's catastrophic. Yeah, so she
Speaker 1: still has that. I'm really impressed by her in the
Speaker 1: last couple of years. You know, we've obviously talked about
Speaker 1: the yips on the serve and getting over the semi
Speaker 1: final hurdle, which for a while in Grand Slams was
Speaker 1: like her big h you know, gating mechanism where she
Speaker 1: just kind of couldn't get there even if she was
Speaker 1: superior to the person she was playing on that day.
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, like one of the things that
Speaker 1: I've hand really endearing about Arena Cblca she's so confident,
Speaker 1: she's so tough, valkyrie and all this stuff, except sometimes
Speaker 1: she's not and she's scared and it's a you know,
Speaker 1: emotional But again, I think that's part of the inherent
Speaker 1: drama of watching her and being her fan that I
Speaker 1: kind of like. But it seemed like that was a
Speaker 1: play today.
Speaker 2: One thing I am getting a little bit tired of
Speaker 2: with Arena and listen, we all love the histrionics and
Speaker 2: the crazy and the speeches, but I'm really tired of
Speaker 2: her going after her team when she loses with Suckasm,
Speaker 2: I'm over it.
Speaker 1: She loses, that's funny.
Speaker 2: It's just like at that point, at this point, it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, stop telling your team, hey, guys, great job today.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just every time it's gotten, it's gotten stale.
Speaker 2: So we gotta Arena, we got it up that you
Speaker 2: just got to thank your team or not and just
Speaker 2: stop giving them ship because it's so passive, aggressive and
Speaker 2: it's a little annoying.
Speaker 1: It's not funny.
Speaker 2: It's just not changing. And then she tries to laugh
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, oh no, it's not funny. You've given
Speaker 2: guys ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Also, they're your pete employees like, are they gonna.
Speaker 2: Yeah, They're not gonna say yeah.
Speaker 1: They can't put a mental finger up. It's like to
Speaker 1: see them doing. I like to see them. So you
Speaker 1: mention Runa and Ochras, should we get to that match?
Speaker 2: Yes, let's get to that Barcelona.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: That was you know, it was interesting because we we
Speaker 2: sort of talked about a bunch of years ago that
Speaker 2: Runa sinner al Chirez, we're going to be the next
Speaker 2: big three, right totally that that was what everyone talked about,
Speaker 2: Oh this is the next big three. Runa, who was
Speaker 2: in the top fat he had that amazing couple of
Speaker 2: weeks being Jocko blah blah blah. Yep, we didn't even
Speaker 2: write down Jocovic. We got to get to that at
Speaker 2: one stage. But let me just say, Runa reminds me
Speaker 2: so much of our Charaz. When they played earlier on
Speaker 2: I was like, oh God, these guys are going to
Speaker 2: go at it for years because they are very similar
Speaker 2: with the way they play, very unbelievably athletic. That both
Speaker 2: of them are so quick. They don't have massive serves,
Speaker 2: but they have great serves. They like to come in,
Speaker 2: they like to hit that little slidy, little touch fourhand
Speaker 2: volley like there was a volley today, there was a
Speaker 2: There was a point yesterday that Runa played. I think
Speaker 2: it was four all or five all in the first set,
Speaker 2: thirty all, and he served and volleyed and he hit
Speaker 2: it unbelievable, little touch fourhand bolly, which you know hows
Speaker 2: to be perfect yence outcres because he's going to run
Speaker 2: it down. But when he hit that, I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: that was so gutsy of him to do that. And
Speaker 2: then to see him he was the more disciplined. And
Speaker 2: this is the difference because Runa was it. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say he wasn't disciplined before, maybe because he was young,
Speaker 2: but also I think technically he struggled a little. On
Speaker 2: the forehand, he was a little bit this in way.
Speaker 2: In this way, I think he's starting to really come
Speaker 2: into his own. He's had the same guy coaching him
Speaker 2: now for years. I think he had too many voices
Speaker 2: in his head. He had this coach and that coach,
Speaker 2: and he's had that same guy.
Speaker 1: And that was his childhood coach. Then he returned to
Speaker 1: and I think that can't new what he shows. He's
Speaker 1: it looks like he's getting the same consistent messaging, which
Speaker 1: for him and I kind of like this about him,
Speaker 1: like he's kind of been a punk in the past,
Speaker 1: but he sort of owns it in a.
Speaker 2: Way that I've once said famously on this podcast. And
Speaker 2: sometimes he's got a punchable face because he did act
Speaker 2: like a douchebag three or four years ago.
Speaker 1: And way to go, hul Garuna, for he hasn't been.
Speaker 2: Chew it's so much he's he's you know on the court.
Speaker 2: I mean what he he's display today, particularly in the
Speaker 2: first look second set, there's no question in my mind
Speaker 2: that Alcrez was absolutely hampered with that right quad sorry
Speaker 2: groin area, hip flexa. You could tell, particularly on his
Speaker 2: serve that he was struggling with and look, Alcrez is
Speaker 2: not a bullshitter. He's not gonna be like, oh my
Speaker 2: leg hurts because I lost the first out. He's the
Speaker 2: type of guy that would love the challenge of playing
Speaker 2: in Barcelona winning a match in three sets, yep. So
Speaker 2: he was definitely hampered, but the first set he wasn't.
Speaker 2: And that was a difference that Holgar Runa was way
Speaker 2: more disciplined, particularly in the tiebreak. I mean, alcre has
Speaker 2: tried to hit that back end drop shot like at
Speaker 2: three to two up on the MIDI break, and it
Speaker 2: was a terrible shot, Like there were just choices and
Speaker 2: his forehand goes off.
Speaker 1: His foe hand. He missed some of those five feet.
Speaker 1: Just basic shit, basic shit. And I think that's sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that's so endearing I
Speaker 1: think about, Oh God, I loves which everyone loves it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he moves feathery late like Federer. He's got
Speaker 1: the you know, battle intensity of Nadal, he's got the
Speaker 1: flexibility of you know, like he really does have all
Speaker 1: the tools. But the one thing he's missing, and this
Speaker 1: he could really learn from Djokovic, is the mental fortitude
Speaker 1: and the ability to stay disciplined and stay in because
Speaker 1: he certainly does not have that, and it doesn't show
Speaker 1: in a match because he's so good. Well look, he's
Speaker 1: so fun. But in a match like this where it
Speaker 1: actually comes down to a tie break and a few
Speaker 1: points and a few choices, he's taking mental vacations. He's
Speaker 1: like doing dumb shit, which I kind of again sort
Speaker 1: of like about it about him because it makes when
Speaker 1: he is able to keep it together almost all the
Speaker 1: much better but you kind of forget, like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is actually his big hurdle. It's not physical, it's not
Speaker 1: you know, creative, it's actually he's just you know, spacely
Speaker 1: too creative.
Speaker 2: He's got too many shots, yes, and that's just making
Speaker 2: dumb noises. Sometimes did better than him in the final yesterday.
Speaker 2: He was more disciplined fresh line, and you know he
Speaker 2: was rewarded for it. And for me, I'm super happy
Speaker 2: about it because I absolutely you know how I feel
Speaker 2: about Carlos. I love this guy so much. He is
Speaker 2: so good for the game. He's very nicest kid you
Speaker 2: could ever meet in your tire life. And when I say,
Speaker 2: I've not met a nicer young man, he is nice
Speaker 2: to every single person.
Speaker 1: Stuff I did got fun gossip, Oh good, mcgive me
Speaker 1: so apparently the ladies really love Carlos. Yeah, and he's
Speaker 1: gotten himself into some hot water among some prominent Spanish
Speaker 1: business owners because of his prowess. Prowess unless then makes
Speaker 1: me love him anymore because he's twenty years of age
Speaker 1: and let him have fun. Yeah, he's got the world.
Speaker 2: Doesn't need to be tied down at this point in
Speaker 2: he's life.
Speaker 1: No, he certainly doesn't.
Speaker 2: And I'm happy about it, but it.
Speaker 1: Is really funny just because you're like, oh, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a twenty year old, sort of cultish young talent. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I can imagine Holgar Muna walking into bunk Sabadel Stadium
Speaker 1: in Barcelona, Spain, basically the closest thing you get to
Speaker 1: a home turf. Yeah, for Carlos Alcharz.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because Nadal. They showed Nadal winning that
Speaker 2: tournament twelve times, and I was like, fucking hell. First
Speaker 2: of all, what And then I thought the difference with
Speaker 2: Carlos and Rafa, because you know, everyone wants to compare
Speaker 2: these two Spanish greats. You know, Carlos is are great.
Speaker 2: I mean, what he's achieved in his career is phenomenal. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: but like Raff would never pick the shots that Ruff
Speaker 2: that Carlos does. You know, even he had an opportunity
Speaker 2: to actually break back in the maybe it's in the
Speaker 2: tie break, and he came running in and he just
Speaker 2: hit he chose a shot that you know, I hate
Speaker 2: coming in on the forehand cross court. He hit an
Speaker 2: inside in fourhand in a huge point and ran in
Speaker 2: and got pasted. And everyone's like, what a shot from actually,
Speaker 2: I'm like, actually, the decision looking easiest shot to hit
Speaker 2: in tennis as a running forehand cross court, so he like,
Speaker 2: those are mental decisions that someone like Ruffa wouldn't do,
Speaker 2: which is why Ruffa could win the French Open fourteen
Speaker 2: times because his discipline was through the roof. But anyway,
Speaker 2: I'm happy about Runa winning because it adds that little
Speaker 2: extra spice of you. How about the French Open because
Speaker 2: Carlos is by father favorite, So why can't Runa? Why
Speaker 2: can't Verev? We know Sverev will have a hard time
Speaker 2: because he chokes when it comes to the finals.
Speaker 1: But he didn't choke yesterday. But yes, he did not choke.
Speaker 2: To say, but again, he's won that tournament now three
Speaker 2: times in a row. You feel comfortable and unique?
Speaker 1: Is this?
Speaker 2: For him to lose to Ben Shelton on clay? That
Speaker 2: should never happen, correct, Okay, I don't care what you
Speaker 2: think about no banns game. You should not lose that match,
Speaker 2: and he showed why he's the better player on clay.
Speaker 2: But I think Severev and Runa are saying to everyone
Speaker 2: just hold the phone a little bit. Carlos is not
Speaker 2: the overwhelming favorite at the French. So if you want
Speaker 2: to put a little money on those two players, you
Speaker 2: should because they're probably well outside the favorite betting and
Speaker 2: I think that there's an opportunity there for someone to
Speaker 2: come in and say, Okay, maybe it's my turn this year.
Speaker 1: Just like we talked about Eger and like, you know,
Speaker 1: let's get the worried Index. I am the only person
Speaker 1: I think who cares about Stephano's teeth buss. But I'm
Speaker 1: worried about him because he put out with the back injury.
Speaker 1: And I love him and he's been in years past
Speaker 1: a pretty solid performer on clay. He's won Monta Carlo,
Speaker 1: he's gotten to the frontch Open finals. I want him
Speaker 1: to get better because I like watching his beautiful one
Speaker 1: hit of backhand and all of his shenanigans. But a
Speaker 1: player that I think you're gonna actually feel a little
Speaker 1: bit more excited about talking about for the Worry Index
Speaker 1: is Novak Djokovic.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: You know, we cannot overemphasize this is the greatest player
Speaker 2: of all time. He's won more than anyone else, but
Speaker 2: he is not getting younger, and at some point when
Speaker 2: you start getting the scar tissue, which is what I
Speaker 2: was saying, that pluck on your brain. You have lost
Speaker 2: the confidence to win matches. Even I don't care how
Speaker 2: great you are as a player. When you're not winning matches,
Speaker 2: it is not easy anymore, and everybody starts to think
Speaker 2: you're vulnerable. You're making you're making errors that you didn't
Speaker 2: make before that you are not the discipline player that
Speaker 2: you used to be, and at some point you do.
Speaker 2: You're getting older and your legs aren't quite there. You're
Speaker 2: missing a shot because you're pulling the trigger too early,
Speaker 2: or you just don't have the discipline. And I just
Speaker 2: feel like he has won one tournament, one tournament and
Speaker 2: a year and what four months, five months going into
Speaker 2: five months. One tournament that was the Olympics, and he
Speaker 2: did it over best of three sets, which I can
Speaker 2: say that I think that was the best tennis I've
Speaker 2: ever seen him play. But if it was best of five,
Speaker 2: would he have won that Olympics? I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't think so. I mean because I actually mentioned that
Speaker 2: to Carlos when I saw him two weeks later. I said, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, bad luck, maybe in five sets you win.
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, I feel like two, you know, and
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, because he feels like you can
Speaker 2: grind those matches out against someone like Novak and best
Speaker 2: of five.
Speaker 1: But which is ironic because what I think has helped
Speaker 1: Novak Djokovic so much in his career is the quantity
Speaker 1: of five set matches, and we've seen him vulnerable in
Speaker 1: three set matches, and the irony now that that's hopefully
Speaker 1: playing into his favor, although let's see, I mean he's
Speaker 1: been with neither five set tournaments nor three set tournaments.
Speaker 1: He's been when they had tournament outside of the Olympics,
Speaker 1: which again is a staggering cool achievement, which obviously he
Speaker 1: was very focused on and I know a lot of
Speaker 1: his fans were like happy because that completes the trophy case.
Speaker 1: But it is a little bit of a question mark
Speaker 1: because usually, I think at this time of the year,
Speaker 1: we're used to, even in years where he doesn't start well,
Speaker 1: seeing him be a viable contender. And I think we.
Speaker 2: Felt that last year too. Remembers happening last year and
Speaker 2: we were like, oh, well, he'll turn up at the
Speaker 2: French and he'll do well.
Speaker 1: He'll turn up.
Speaker 2: He did it, and then of course he you know,
Speaker 2: the Olympics was I think it was just meant to be.
Speaker 2: I just do. I think there was a calm a
Speaker 2: thing there and it was meant to be. And that
Speaker 2: Raffle wasn't there at the French You know, he was
Speaker 2: there at the Olympics, but he wasn't the player that
Speaker 2: we know he is, and it just there was something
Speaker 2: serendipitous about it was his time, right, But everything else
Speaker 2: since then, I don't know. I don't know, And I'm
Speaker 2: going to go on the record, and I think I
Speaker 2: think he might. I think we might. We've seen the
Speaker 2: best of no that Choko. It's I think he might
Speaker 2: surprise us with one random tournament win before he retires.
Speaker 2: But I think that we might not see him next year. Okay,
Speaker 2: Because I don't care who you are. When you're that great,
Speaker 2: losing sucks, yeah, And I don't care how much discipline
Speaker 2: you have to want to be better. Losing sucks. And
Speaker 2: when you're used to winning everything, losing sucks. And so
Speaker 2: you start to it starts to really affect you and
Speaker 2: your personal life and you and yourself everything, And it's like,
Speaker 2: why do I want to keep dragging myself away from
Speaker 2: my kids who are getting older. And I've told you
Speaker 2: this that the US Open two years ago, it was
Speaker 2: the first time I interviewed him before he went on
Speaker 2: the court, and I thought, huh, he doesn't sound overly
Speaker 2: pumped about going out to this match. It was the
Speaker 2: first time.
Speaker 1: So at where I was shipping the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, you know, how do you get up?
Speaker 2: I think I asked him along the lines of something like,
Speaker 2: how do you get up for these You know, what
Speaker 2: is it about Arthur ash at night or getting up
Speaker 2: for these matches and putting yourself through this kind of thing?
Speaker 2: And he was like, yeah, sometimes I wonder myself and
Speaker 2: I was It was something along those sides. It wasn't
Speaker 2: that verbata, But I remember in my brain going, huh,
Speaker 2: that's the first time I've ever heard him be a
Speaker 2: little bit sort of like negative and over going on
Speaker 2: the court. It was weird. And since then he has
Speaker 2: not done well. So I'm just I just think that
Speaker 2: at some point it's hard to keep digging yourself out
Speaker 2: and keep pretending that you're still this great when you're
Speaker 2: not having the results, and you know, having Andy maybe
Speaker 2: was trying to, I don't know, get a little spark
Speaker 2: dying or get a little of Andy's sort of ideas
Speaker 2: to make him better. But I just think at some
Speaker 2: point we all get old.
Speaker 1: Well, as you were talking about Novak Djokovic and losing,
Speaker 1: sucking and not wanting to go out there after, you know,
Speaker 1: a time of feeling like you know, you're not who you.
Speaker 2: Used to be.
Speaker 1: The interesting thing about this is I think Andy fought
Speaker 1: until the bitter end. He did, he didn't, he didn't
Speaker 1: go out on top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also Caitlin, Andy was great, but he wasn't Novak.
Speaker 2: No like and and Andy had gone through his ups
Speaker 2: and downs. And Andy loved and he loves tennis.
Speaker 1: He loves the I think he loves the grist, whereas
Speaker 1: I think the difference might be I think Novak loves
Speaker 1: the battle. But I think ultimately he loves prevailing over
Speaker 1: every type of obstacle, even those he makes himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, happen, I just I mean, listen. I think Wimbledon
Speaker 2: will tell the story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think wimbled the French player. The French feels
Speaker 1: like it's not necessarily an indicator, but I think is
Speaker 1: the indicator.
Speaker 2: Now. Interestingly enough, Sinner will be back and we'll see
Speaker 2: sin in Rome, so we'll see what Janick Sinner has
Speaker 2: been up to in his three months.
Speaker 1: This is what I'm talking about. These are the storylines
Speaker 1: that we've needed and been missing. I love it.
Speaker 2: And while we're on the subject of Sinner, there was
Speaker 2: an interesting tweet that John Watline put out and highlight
Speaker 2: of the fact that the Itia is now having the
Speaker 2: urine sample people that follow you off the court watch
Speaker 2: you in the showers, and I'm like, wait a second,
Speaker 2: that's always been the facts. And people were shocked about that,
Speaker 2: like what that's that's so you know, that's diving into
Speaker 2: your privacy and bro blah. It's like, yeah, the moment
Speaker 2: you lose, you would know as a player, you would
Speaker 2: see these people. I was going to say something bad then,
Speaker 2: but I'm like, they're just people doing their jobs right now.
Speaker 2: But we would see these people with.
Speaker 1: The growth, ladies and gentlemen, the just witness some real growth.
Speaker 2: But it's gonna get worse. Here are these people sitting
Speaker 2: there in the corner with their fucking what do you
Speaker 2: call those things? Clipboards? You see the clipboard people. You
Speaker 2: just know I'm not showering alone. How even if you
Speaker 2: win a match or lose a match. You know, the
Speaker 2: clip people are there and they're going to clip you
Speaker 2: and make your pee. And so the moment you walk
Speaker 2: off the court, they are literally behind you like they
Speaker 2: are velco on you. They're like a hemorrhoid. They just
Speaker 2: follow you into the locker room. Clearly you have women.
Speaker 2: So the women come into the locker rooms.
Speaker 1: You're just doing your jobs.
Speaker 2: They come it. You just turn your jobs, go into
Speaker 2: the locker room. You take your clothes off. You want
Speaker 2: to shower. Now, a lot of people shower, including myself,
Speaker 2: because you know, when the water starts in the shower,
Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, I gotta go to the
Speaker 2: toilet's so bad, right, Yeah, And some people pee in
Speaker 2: the shower, okay, and those that deny it are lying, okay,
Speaker 2: because everyone pee's in the shower, so fuck off. For
Speaker 2: those that you don't pee in the shower, you're not normal. Okay.
Speaker 2: So I would go and have a shower because I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I've got a peace so bad. But
Speaker 2: i would hang on to it. I would hang on
Speaker 2: to it, Caitlin, and then I would come out of
Speaker 2: that shower.
Speaker 1: This is TMO accepted.
Speaker 2: It's not tears because it's important, and I would go okay,
Speaker 2: I would tell off, I put my clothes on, I
Speaker 2: go to okay, let's go pee. And I would go
Speaker 2: pee right, because when you come off the court, you
Speaker 2: dehydrate it. You've been out there for an hour, two hours,
Speaker 2: three hours, you're not hydrated. So it's really hard to
Speaker 2: pee immediately off the court. And some people pee during
Speaker 2: the match. I never did that because I wasn't a
Speaker 2: person that went off the fucking tennis court like everybody
Speaker 2: else does on tour now, which is so annoying. And
Speaker 2: so now they're saying, well, they're going to be looking
Speaker 2: at you. I was like they were always looking at
Speaker 2: us in the shower. So why is this all of
Speaker 2: a sudden used to everybody.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've been trying to figure out exactly
Speaker 1: what is new about this to people, but I don't
Speaker 1: think there is anything now.
Speaker 2: Caitlin, there was one time, right, just so people out
Speaker 2: there know how invasive it is. I was peeing in
Speaker 2: the cup, okay, and we ladies, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: that easy to get it into that cup right, because
Speaker 2: the stream sometimes doesn't go the way you want it to. Okay,
Speaker 2: I know, we get into TMI, but this is a fact.
Speaker 2: And I've got the cup underneath me and I'm trying
Speaker 2: to find it, and literally the lady is standing three
Speaker 2: feet from me, right in front of me, okay, and
Speaker 2: she looks at me and she goes, I can't see
Speaker 2: the cup.
Speaker 1: I excuse me. That makes two of us.
Speaker 2: She goes, I can't see the cup. I can't see
Speaker 2: if the if And I go, well, lady, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: If you want to see the cup, then you wouldn't
Speaker 2: have to test me because I'd be a dude. You'd
Speaker 2: be in here, okay, you would see my you know
Speaker 2: what going into the cup. I'm like, it's impossible to like,
Speaker 2: what do you want to stand up and do it?
Speaker 2: Like it's so invasive. So people that say, you know,
Speaker 2: tennis is the most tested sport in the world.
Speaker 1: It's insane. I wanna perhaps suggest because I think you're
Speaker 1: right from what I can tell, it's not necessarily new.
Speaker 1: Maybe they just they definitely reissued the rules. So maybe
Speaker 1: people outside of the sport were surprised by it. Sounds
Speaker 1: like no player were surprised by Yeah. But also the
Speaker 1: thing that I think was new that that Warthimes tweet.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was illustrating is that the agency clarified that
Speaker 1: showering is not an entitlement, which sort of is an
Speaker 1: ominous threat, which is basically like, if you guys don't
Speaker 1: follow the rules, we're not even gonna we're gonna make
Speaker 1: it outside the rules for you to shower eat at all,
Speaker 1: which maybe is me reading into it, but I think
Speaker 1: the emphasis on showering not being an entitlement, therefore, the
Speaker 1: implication is you could lose your It's.
Speaker 2: So preposterous because you're going into the shower, you're not
Speaker 2: you have seb Look.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I think, maybe not to get to
Speaker 1: go down this rabbit hole too much, but I think
Speaker 1: maybe the issue here is not necessarily about showers and
Speaker 1: people peeing in the shower. I think maybe it is
Speaker 1: if you were using a cream or topical substance on
Speaker 1: your body. Maybe the rule emphasis or they're going to
Speaker 1: wash it off is that they were going to wash off.
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert. I'm not and you and alling
Speaker 1: know about absorption.
Speaker 2: Of you have just come off a tennis court.
Speaker 1: Cause with you know, with Todd Blakes what you're saying.
Speaker 1: But I think maybe that's sort of again, I'm reading
Speaker 1: to some.
Speaker 2: Of us at a certain age might be putting testosterone
Speaker 2: cream on them.
Speaker 1: Would they oh okay, yeah, man.
Speaker 2: Of pause, this is what happens. Oh but here's the thing, Caitlin.
Speaker 2: It absorbs in like five seconds. Second of all, you're
Speaker 2: on a tennis court for two fucking hours playing a
Speaker 2: tennis match where you're sweating and telling yourself off all
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah. So if they think you're coming off
Speaker 2: a tennis court to wash off your your your test cream,
Speaker 2: your creams, you are out of your mind. So the
Speaker 2: fact that they're putting that out there is just to
Speaker 2: make everybody think, oh, we're so stringent. You guys have
Speaker 2: been stringent on the fucking players forever. So it's just
Speaker 2: nonsense that they put that out anyway, different subjects.
Speaker 1: I think the one conclusion we can clearly draw is that, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, did people not watch Icarus?
Speaker 1: People should watch Icarus. What a great film Icarus.
Speaker 2: Is, and they we're passing the p under the door.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's for anybody who doesn't know. Is about a
Speaker 1: man who sets out to because he is a recreational cyclist,
Speaker 1: take advantage of the fact that he's a recreational cyclist
Speaker 1: and begin a doping program. And again this begins as
Speaker 1: a recreational.
Speaker 2: Innocence like you taking Meldonia.
Speaker 1: Exactly like me taking Maldonia, which is like, well it's
Speaker 1: technically not illegal. I'm a recreational level player. Maybe this
Speaker 1: will help, Will it help? Let me find out? Meets
Speaker 1: the guy. The guy who's helping him turns out to
Speaker 1: be helping the entire Soviet uh and I guess later
Speaker 1: Russian They went to Soviet, the entire Russian Olympic team
Speaker 1: skirt doping protocols, and he like set up the whole system.
Speaker 1: And then it becomes this expos a on which results
Speaker 1: even way too much. People need to realize what they're
Speaker 1: in for it, which is amazing anyways, a great films.
Speaker 1: One thing we can be sure about, which is the
Speaker 1: tennis is doping protocols, agencies and approach still leaves a
Speaker 1: lot to be desired.
Speaker 2: It is, but also trust me, they're not doing anything
Speaker 2: nefarious in the bloody shower because people are staring at you.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about little Harriet.
Speaker 1: Dart and how the showering sort of factors under this
Speaker 1: as well, speaking of showering, Speaking of showering Harriet Dirt,
Speaker 1: the British player losing a match in the first or
Speaker 1: second round.
Speaker 2: She was not happy with her opponents body odor on
Speaker 2: the tennis court. Now, listen, we've all been there. I've
Speaker 2: all been there. I've had opponents that didn't smell good
Speaker 2: and it wasn't fun. But the fact that she said something.
Speaker 1: To the umpire, can you make this girl weird odorant?
Speaker 2: Like, if you're going to be that person and listen,
Speaker 2: let me just say, Harriet Dart is great, she's funny,
Speaker 2: she's a sweetheart. She lost her mind a little bit
Speaker 2: here and she did apologize and it wasn't a great look.
Speaker 2: The opponent her name are skipping me. But she put
Speaker 2: out are opponent Instagram later for a Dove commercial, which
Speaker 2: I thought was hilarious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she would basically said, hey, Dove, sounds like I
Speaker 1: need a sponsorship.
Speaker 2: Yes, which I thought apparently probably does. But I thought
Speaker 2: that if you're going to do that, Harriet, just say
Speaker 2: it to your opponent. Just go, you stink. I don't
Speaker 2: like if you're going to do something on the court
Speaker 2: out just because then nobody hears it, right, you just
Speaker 2: say it to her and maybe you get under a
Speaker 2: skin no pun all right, but I did. I did.
Speaker 2: It's not a good look, but I did have a
Speaker 2: laugh about it. It wasn't great, but.
Speaker 1: I think because it ended well with Harriet apologizing and
Speaker 1: the frenchwoman making a joke about it, it is.
Speaker 2: All fair in love and war.
Speaker 1: I guess so.
Speaker 2: And I do feel like sometimes we lose our mind
Speaker 2: on the tennis court because people lose reminds we've all
Speaker 2: done some crazy shit.
Speaker 1: Should we talk about a player who is losing your
Speaker 1: mind at the WTA right now? The Senko let's see
Speaker 1: a Serenko, one of the Ukrainian players who has been very,
Speaker 1: very vocal about feeling like the Ukrainian players have not
Speaker 1: been supported enough. And this is not the first time
Speaker 1: she's made a statement about this. She's being very vocal
Speaker 1: from has been very vocal. She's one of the players.
Speaker 1: And to be clear, the Ukrainian players who have refused
Speaker 1: to shake the hands of Russian and Bella Russian players.
Speaker 1: She's not alone in this. It's also Elena's Felina. I
Speaker 1: mean not I'm blaming them Marta Kostiak. Yeah, but Lesio
Speaker 1: Cerenko has pulled out and withdrawn and uh had give
Speaker 1: overs to her opponents, she's the one who sort of
Speaker 1: stands out as being the most sort of intense about this.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying she's wrong to be intense about it,
Speaker 1: but now she issuing the WTA for essentially it sounds
Speaker 1: like kind of a combination of creating a hostile work
Speaker 1: environment and not supporting the Ukrainian players enough against She's.
Speaker 2: Claiming that Steve Simon, the former CEO of the WTA,
Speaker 2: was not in essentially not supportive of her and very
Speaker 2: flippant towards her. That's how she felt. If you read
Speaker 2: the complaint and basically sort of going after Steve in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways and the WTA and is saying
Speaker 2: you weren't supportive of us, etc. Etc. And you said
Speaker 2: things that made me feel uncomfortable that all might be
Speaker 2: well and truly, and I'm sure, I'm sure that she
Speaker 2: felt that way. But listen, what I do know Steve.
Speaker 2: You know, think what you think about him as a
Speaker 2: CEO or some of the things that he did as
Speaker 2: a CEO, But he's a good man. He's a good man,
Speaker 2: and he I would find very unusual for him to
Speaker 2: be not caring or not empathetic towards someone like Lisa
Speaker 2: Lisia Cerenko. I just can't imagine him being just, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like dismiss bugger off like kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that at all.
Speaker 1: What do you think is behind this?
Speaker 2: I don't understand this.
Speaker 1: Bring this into the courts.
Speaker 2: I don't understand this at all. I don't understand this
Speaker 2: at all. Look, Lisia Cerenko is a little bit of
Speaker 2: a drama cointy. Any player will tell you that. Any
Speaker 2: person on the tour will tell you that she sometimes
Speaker 2: pulls some like drama stuff on the court, whether injuries
Speaker 2: or sicknesses or whatever's going on.
Speaker 1: It's just like, oh, I think she possesses one of
Speaker 1: there's a stat oh the most defaults, defaults and withdrawals
Speaker 1: for a reason for all things, all things, So you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the boy that crows wolf.
Speaker 2: At some point people are going to be like, I
Speaker 2: don't believe you, yeah kind of thing.
Speaker 1: So where is this coming from Ukraine? Or is this
Speaker 1: about your mental state or is this about something else?
Speaker 2: Or and again, what the Ukrainian players are going through?
Speaker 1: And believe I.
Speaker 2: Cannot even fathom what they're going through. What Switzerlina has
Speaker 2: been able to do over the last couple of years
Speaker 2: and highlighting Ukraine talking about all the time, but going
Speaker 2: out there and winning for her country like that to
Speaker 2: me is incredible, and she talks about it openly all
Speaker 2: the time. Now, why isn't she saying or standing up
Speaker 2: and saying I feel the same way. It feels a
Speaker 2: little bit unusual and a little bit it doesn't feel
Speaker 2: like you would think that all the Ukrainian players would
Speaker 2: be more supportive of this situation.
Speaker 1: It is odd that and sort of maybe indicative of
Speaker 1: what's motivating this to your point that the most dramatic,
Speaker 1: the most sort of uh possessing of other stuff that's
Speaker 1: going on player. I mean, to me, it's hard not
Speaker 1: to draw some comparisons between this and the PTPA, which
Speaker 1: is like, hey, have you know in the case of
Speaker 1: the PTPA law, so it's like, hey, have the players
Speaker 1: gotten short tripted by the tournament with regards to prize
Speaker 1: money and like the scheduling and stuffing like this, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's some valid points here, like has it been extremely
Speaker 1: hard for the Ukrainian players to you know, play even
Speaker 1: after the governing bodies not just you the WTA, but also,
Speaker 1: you know, the slam countries and the international competitions like
Speaker 1: the BJK Cup and David's Cup have stripped the Russian
Speaker 1: and bell Russian players of being able to play their
Speaker 1: own flag. Ye, like you know, nobody's playing the Russian
Speaker 1: or beller Russian anthems. Like, but I agree, like there's
Speaker 1: you know, it's shitty, but it's kind of like, hey,
Speaker 1: is this the format? What there is a lawsuit doing?
Speaker 1: What is the point of this?
Speaker 2: And you can't single out she singled out a couple
Speaker 2: of particular tennis players.
Speaker 1: Steve Simon is named in this suit. Some of the
Speaker 1: Russian players specifically are named in this suit. And it's
Speaker 1: just kind of like it's the same thing to me
Speaker 1: with the PTBA, which is like, hey, you guys, there
Speaker 1: might be some validity here, but like, why didn't you
Speaker 1: go and get some other support from other people? So
Speaker 1: this feels like it's more of a player movement. Similarly,
Speaker 1: if it was all the Ukrainian players, men and women,
Speaker 1: you'd kind of be like, oh, this seems like it's
Speaker 1: a systematic issue as opposed to an individual grievance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of what both boils down
Speaker 1: to it to me, Yeah, and I mean it feels
Speaker 1: a little bit more individual grievance than it does maybe
Speaker 1: systematic problem that should be dissolved through the court of law.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean what I'm going to enjoy seeing is
Speaker 2: Sitelena playing against Daria Kasakina and getting to shake her
Speaker 2: hand now because she sins Australia, and that is indicative
Speaker 2: of Derek Kina, who clearly has spoken up against you know,
Speaker 2: the laws in Russia and Houten and.
Speaker 1: The government feels a little bit.
Speaker 2: But you know, some of these Russian players probably do
Speaker 2: feel very anti war and but you but also at
Speaker 2: the same time, it's an independent contracting sport. They've made
Speaker 2: stipulations that clearly you can't come in with a Russian
Speaker 2: flag and all that sort of stuff. But these are individuals,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you can have a word to them. And look,
Speaker 2: I just think I just think it's it's a shame.
Speaker 2: I feel sorry for her because clearly she's going through
Speaker 2: something and this is to spend the money she's going
Speaker 2: to have to spend to fight a lawsuit. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: I don't think she's going to even remotely come close
Speaker 2: to winning. But you know, I feel sorry for Porscha,
Speaker 2: the new WTA CEO, because she's coming a serious shit
Speaker 2: between Rebaka in her and now this situation. It's just like,
Speaker 2: oh my god.
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's end the segment. Well, we're talking about
Speaker 1: Ukrainian players. To give a big shout out to a
Speaker 1: Linus Videlina who won the title in Ruin against a
Speaker 1: very exciting young player in Uga Danilovich, who I think
Speaker 1: like she's always been a hard hitter and she's somebody
Speaker 1: who I think is like kind of exciting to watch
Speaker 1: because she's kind of a dynamic player. But she's getting better,
Speaker 1: she's getting closer, she's maturing. But Elena's Ferdelina, you know,
Speaker 1: at mid thirties, is still winning titles and getting to
Speaker 1: give victory speeches and shout out her beloved husband who
Speaker 1: we all love. Gay I'm on feast in a final,
Speaker 1: Like that's awesome, that's a great outcome.
Speaker 2: No, she's so awesome, And it's just.
Speaker 1: Like another fun indicator of like tennis is being played
Speaker 1: all over the world and all sorts of interesting people
Speaker 1: places with great and interesting outcomes simultaneously. You know, Like
Speaker 1: yesterday I was trying to watch the finals, and they
Speaker 1: were all on at the same time, and I was like, Ah,
Speaker 1: which one of these are? Yeah? What am I doing?
Speaker 2: Only forty two ten TVs? You need to be that
Speaker 2: person going into a kind of a good problem. Now,
Speaker 2: we've got a good bar across the street from me
Speaker 2: now called thirty Love.
Speaker 1: Let's go check it out.
Speaker 2: We should go check it out. Apparently they've got some booths.
Speaker 2: We'll check that out. But anyway, we do want to
Speaker 2: give a shout out to the teams that made the
Speaker 2: Bachk Cup finals. It's going to be in Shenzhen in September,
Speaker 2: after the US Open, which is playing. Frankly, I think
Speaker 2: is better. I think it's a better time to have
Speaker 2: it right after the US seven November instead of November,
Speaker 2: because everyone is absolutely tapped and after the US Open.
Speaker 2: I've you know how I feel about this. I'm always like,
Speaker 2: let's just get rid of tournaments after the US Open,
Speaker 2: like the US Open.
Speaker 1: Should be and Serrien Williams agree about that, one hundred.
Speaker 2: It should be the pun ultimate event and then it
Speaker 2: should be this is the way I would do it,
Speaker 2: the WTA finals and then Billy Jean kin Cup like
Speaker 2: do it big time, you know, and have the home
Speaker 2: and away ties.
Speaker 1: They should have it at the same time at the
Speaker 1: same venue tennis festival.
Speaker 2: That certainly could be possible. That certainly could be possible.
Speaker 1: Certainly, it's like they do Ncuba's uh not for basketball
Speaker 1: an certainly because it's only team, but like tennis sort
Speaker 1: of culminates like the team and the individual competition are
Speaker 1: like pretty condensed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that could be an idea.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times it's the same player.
Speaker 2: There's too many tournaments. There's too many they play too
Speaker 2: late and the w you know, the WT schedule finishes
Speaker 2: super late, as as does the ATP and then you
Speaker 2: have the Davis Cup and the BJK Cup are at
Speaker 2: the end, and it's just like, oh my god, everyone's
Speaker 2: like an end Togo. I need to have a holiday
Speaker 2: because I got to be back in Australia in three weeks.
Speaker 2: So it's just like, you know, anyway, So the teams
Speaker 2: that qualified were a Great Britain, Japan, Kazakhstan, Spain, Ukraine,
Speaker 2: so congrats to them. Can't be cool if they want it. Actually,
Speaker 2: USA Italy because they are the defending champions, and of
Speaker 2: course the host nation is China, so they are in there.
Speaker 1: As well, so there's some.
Speaker 2: Great there's gonna be some great matchups there. Unfortunately, the
Speaker 2: Old Aussie's lost to Kazakhstan in Australia because Ribakina went
Speaker 2: down there and played, so that was a big help
Speaker 2: for them. And so yeah, so some great teams going
Speaker 2: to be in the girl and I do really.
Speaker 1: Like BJK Cup. I've never been to a single match.
Speaker 2: I have been to Shenzen.
Speaker 1: I've been to Shenzen as well.
Speaker 2: You lived in China, so good to see that. Obviously,
Speaker 2: we want to see the support there. And so the
Speaker 2: money for Billy Jean King Cup is so big, Like
Speaker 2: I'm really happy for them. And of course I'm not
Speaker 2: going to bitch about this because Billy won like two
Speaker 2: thousand dollars when she won Wimbledon singles. But they're winning
Speaker 2: millions of dollars. It's crazy how much money they're winning
Speaker 2: at Bella Jean Kin Cup. Like the team is making
Speaker 2: so much money and so good.
Speaker 1: I love to you.
Speaker 2: We should be yeah, you know how I feel like
Speaker 2: about But god damn, I played twenty two years.
Speaker 1: To make sure they didn't get that backed.
Speaker 2: I didn't get that prize money. So all these players
Speaker 2: should be out there busting their ass for their country
Speaker 2: because there's huge money on the line there.
Speaker 1: But anyway, anything that we're looking forward to, I'm going
Speaker 1: to look forward to watching Madrid, which is a Master's
Speaker 1: one thousand, and I'm going to use this opportunity to
Speaker 1: once again call for the cowards who run it to
Speaker 1: bring back the blue clay.
Speaker 2: No, it's too slippery.
Speaker 1: It was terrible. It was a beauty.
Speaker 2: I know it looked good, but it's one person. I
Speaker 2: do want to see how she's going to go over
Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks. Is Coca golf as well,
Speaker 2: just kind of lost away a lot this year losing
Speaker 2: to Paolini.
Speaker 1: You we're going to add her to the worry index.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm adding her to the worry index a little bit,
Speaker 2: just because the serve and forehand again broke down against Paolini.
Speaker 1: So it was fun to see PERLINI yeah, it was
Speaker 1: very way fund of your back.
Speaker 2: She's got some serious points finals Paris and finals and Wimbledon.
Speaker 2: She has a new coach in her coaching box.
Speaker 1: Find is your palain with But yes, Clark Lopez, I
Speaker 1: cain't of expected to win.
Speaker 2: That match, Mark Lopez, Yeah, yeah, I was a little
Speaker 2: bit surprised there. Coca got up in the first set
Speaker 2: and then lost her serve, and then again at four
Speaker 2: or five in the first set down love fifteen. No
Speaker 2: big deal, right, it's four five love fifteen, No big deal.
Speaker 2: Double fault, double fault yep to go Love forty and
Speaker 2: then missus a easy back end white by mile and
Speaker 2: I was like, what the.
Speaker 1: Hell is that? So, you know, technically pressure mental.
Speaker 2: As soon as the pressure really gets on her, the
Speaker 2: double faults, and that should not be happening indoors, and
Speaker 2: it should definitely not be happening on clay because on
Speaker 2: clay you can get away with hitting an average serve
Speaker 2: because you can run the ball down better. So those
Speaker 2: things are a little bit of a concern. And you know,
Speaker 2: the service motion, she gets on the front foot too early.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I could go on forever about it, but
Speaker 2: I won't. There is a con and yeah, there's there
Speaker 2: is a concern. I would like to see her and
Speaker 2: Eager playing against each other at the French at some
Speaker 2: point and maybe quarters of Semis and see who can
Speaker 2: battle there their their brain plock away, the battle of
Speaker 2: the brain black. Yeah, But but anyway, all right, guys,
Speaker 2: It's been a great couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Spring is really here. I'm excited about the just preponderance
Speaker 1: and comments. It's still called here, although we had a
Speaker 1: couple of nice days. I'm really excited about Center coming back.
Speaker 1: I'm excited Runa, as you said, ascending back up into
Speaker 1: the injuries. Okay, yeah, are nursing. I'm going to give
Speaker 1: a shout out to Pas because I love him. Silly
Speaker 1: backhand and it's silly whole.
Speaker 2: She's silly backhand, He's got beautiful back He's going to
Speaker 2: be Slice needs to work.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sabalanc Is still out there being crazy.
Speaker 1: Oh one last call out. Nike just fatably gets a
Speaker 1: lot of ship on this podcast because they've basically ignored
Speaker 1: tennis for what Likeim Kardashian like get out here. But
Speaker 1: the Lilac Springtime Easter basket color that Sablanca and Carlos
Speaker 1: Akar has played in over the weekend, It looks so
Speaker 1: good on that red clay Do you love it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That looks great. I will say I really like
Speaker 2: new Balances looks on Coco.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's they don't kill us, they don't mess with,
Speaker 1: they don't miss And also I think on the men's side,
Speaker 1: Tommy part they don't mess with him either. Yeah, they well,
Speaker 1: I mean both of them are beautiful attraction, which a
Speaker 1: great parties and the whole thing. But the god they're
Speaker 1: succeed with their kids. I think they both almost always
Speaker 1: look phenomenal and even if they don't look their best,
Speaker 1: they look great. You know which I think we should
Speaker 1: all be so lucky is to walk out on to
Speaker 1: the court with a great kit shout look, good play.
Speaker 2: Because you know, if you don't look good, you can
Speaker 2: still play well. There are some players that do that
Speaker 2: really well, they will remain nameless.
Speaker 1: Thanks.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, everybody. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: Bye.