Speaker 1: Warning, this episode contains spoilers for a Foundation season three
Speaker 1: episode three. Hello, my name is Jason Sepsion and I'm
Speaker 1: Rosy Night, and welcome back to x ray Vision of
Speaker 1: the podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,
Speaker 1: and pop culture.
Speaker 2: We're here and iHeart podcast.
Speaker 1: We'll bring you three episodes every week Tuesday Thursday, and.
Speaker 2: The summer's biggest movies every Friday, plus news on Saturday,
Speaker 2: plus news.
Speaker 3: In today's episode, most importantly for me, as a new
Speaker 3: space traveler in the world of Foundation, we are bringing
Speaker 3: back our spice Master.
Speaker 2: A boo, A boo.
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4: Always a pleasure.
Speaker 5: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: I think this interests This is an episode that really
Speaker 3: I have a lot of questions about in broadens the
Speaker 3: wild a little bit, so let's talk about it.
Speaker 5: I'm really excited to do this with you guys.
Speaker 1: Episode three, season three, When a Book Finds You. We
Speaker 1: open three years ago, flashback to the library where Don
Speaker 1: current Don was down. Then rise to the library and
Speaker 1: he's like, I what do you got on psychohistory? Give
Speaker 1: me all the books on psychohistory, and the library is like, ahaa,
Speaker 1: I'll take you to see the old books, and they
Speaker 1: go back there. And what's very interesting is it's very
Speaker 1: clear here that down is beginning to become work.
Speaker 2: Is psychohistory curious? Hold on, do we get it wrong?
Speaker 1: Maybe did cleon the whatever the whichever one he was back? Then?
Speaker 2: Do we get it wrong?
Speaker 1: Is psychohistory a lot more interesting with a lot more
Speaker 1: to tell us about the world than we thought?
Speaker 2: Is that the case?
Speaker 1: So he goes back there and they show him I
Speaker 1: believe it's the ninth Book of Folding book right, which
Speaker 1: is a Callan's ninth ninth Theorem of Folding, which was
Speaker 1: a very a very important book, a source book for
Speaker 1: Harry Seldon's work. And Donn is like, well, how did
Speaker 1: you even get this book? And the library is like
Speaker 1: super super cagey about it and is like, by the way,
Speaker 1: the person who left the book here said that if
Speaker 1: anybody ever came looking for it, that we should tell them.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to do that.
Speaker 1: And guess who it was who left that little message
Speaker 1: and who brought the book back? It was Gaild her
Speaker 1: periods of being awake when she was not frozen. Who
Speaker 1: knows when this could have been like aboo, any idea
Speaker 1: timeline wise when this might have happened.
Speaker 4: I I'm unclear on that.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's got to be some time after
Speaker 1: her for awakening, the first time she was unfrozen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think anyway, so day, I mean, excuse me.
Speaker 1: Dusk, all disguised up, goes to a tea house to
Speaker 1: meet this mysterious person.
Speaker 2: It's Gail Dorning and they begin plotting together.
Speaker 1: He's like, how are you still alive? She's like, weird
Speaker 1: question coming from you, but it's cryos.
Speaker 3: Come on, my guy, Like, what do you mean you
Speaker 3: think of anyone?
Speaker 2: Who else is it going to be?
Speaker 1: So apparently Gail and the Foundation have been using the
Speaker 1: Ninth Book as like a lure for.
Speaker 2: People who are.
Speaker 1: Have the same kind of mindset as what Foundation is
Speaker 1: looking for. And Gale and Dawn they kind of spar
Speaker 1: back and forth about like whose fault everything is? And
Speaker 1: Dawn eventually tells Gail that the Empire has the prime
Speaker 1: Radiant that Harry Seldon gave it to him.
Speaker 2: This is a shock to Gail.
Speaker 1: Don uh Is, like, listen, the data is obviously like
Speaker 1: fucked and Demarzelle has been is the gate is the
Speaker 1: Gatekeeper basically of the prime radiant data, and I believe
Speaker 1: that she's interpreting the data in a way that is
Speaker 1: only beneficial the Empire, not the galaxy, and I care
Speaker 1: about the galaxy. So Gail's like, Okay, here's here's my
Speaker 1: pitch escape Empire.
Speaker 2: And we keep talking.
Speaker 1: We deal with the threat of the mule, which I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you is a big deal, and Don is like,
Speaker 1: I'll think about it, and he reaches out and then
Speaker 1: his hand goes right through Gale's wrist.
Speaker 2: She's a hologram.
Speaker 4: A tough choice as far as disguises go. I'm not
Speaker 4: so sure about the goate look for.
Speaker 5: A lot more.
Speaker 3: Have you guys seen the movie pop Star Never Stop
Speaker 3: Popping Iconic Lone Moe, one of the funniest movies ever made.
Speaker 3: I always think about when anyone puts on a disguise.
Speaker 3: I always think about the Andy Sambak character. He puts
Speaker 3: on like a full face of makeup, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: he does like a prostatic knows like that's how he
Speaker 3: does it to hide from the press. And I always think,
Speaker 3: I'm like, you guys are not doing enough what the
Speaker 3: disguise is, Like, you got to really put that stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, you gotta go full mission impossible.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you need a fake mosque.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the facial recognition technology. However, many thousands of years
Speaker 1: in the future, this has got to be great.
Speaker 2: We go to the present.
Speaker 1: Don reads a secret message, he destroys it. He gets
Speaker 1: this little Gail communicator out and they start talking and
Speaker 1: Gail tells Dawn that he needs to ask the council
Speaker 1: to do like a siege, like let's let's let's completely
Speaker 1: seal off Kalgan. Don is like, but, like, that's not
Speaker 1: even imperial territory. It'll start a war with original og Foundation,
Speaker 1: First Foundation. And Gail is like, let me handle the bitches.
Speaker 6: She said, I it's like she was like, She's like,
Speaker 6: Harry Selden gave me this ninth proof manuscript and twelve
Speaker 6: O sixty seven, Like, come.
Speaker 1: On, Mariam is a fucking pushover. And she's like, listen,
Speaker 1: the mule. Nobody's getting it. We need to act now
Speaker 1: because the mule quickly will become too strong for us
Speaker 1: to deal with. And she warns Don that also it's
Speaker 1: gonna sound crazy, okay, but the mule can control people's minds,
Speaker 1: and Don was like, what he's like, peace and then
Speaker 1: she hangs up Kalgan. It's the big party. It's the
Speaker 1: Mule Party, Torn Beta and Preitch. The spies enter Spicy
Speaker 1: with no shirt.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about the outsits?
Speaker 3: I love this. It's like, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 3: like the opposite of being solid's like hiding and play insight.
Speaker 3: He's like, I gotta look extra sexy that no one would.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he's live streaming. The whole thing is
Speaker 4: a little like vlog Cambridge.
Speaker 2: So fun. Okay, so it's spy time.
Speaker 1: We see at the center of it all the Mules,
Speaker 1: personal balladeer DJ Magnifico Giganticus.
Speaker 5: This is why is this.
Speaker 3: Is the funnest fantastic This is like the most fun
Speaker 3: episode of this season so far. There's so much like
Speaker 3: in depth political lore and kind of and Spycroft like
Speaker 3: stage setting that the first two episodes do. But this
Speaker 3: episode is.
Speaker 5: Like a blost everyone.
Speaker 3: They just sneaking on everyone and there's a potty I mean,
Speaker 3: who doesn't want to be named Magnifico Giganticus is like
Speaker 3: the best name of all time.
Speaker 5: Like that's that's a bad name than duncan Idaho.
Speaker 2: Like, come on, man, I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1: They drop a mike Sure, ask name on us magnifical
Speaker 1: and magnifico. Giganticus plays like it appears to be a
Speaker 1: highly advanced like Beats Bluetooth speaker and is just like,
Speaker 1: has the room and trance that mule.
Speaker 5: Come out of that speaker, But it's not connected.
Speaker 1: That the mule is just chilling watching it all. He's
Speaker 1: with Scarlet and some other like his other top lieutenants.
Speaker 2: Pritch comes over.
Speaker 1: And bad idea. I think I don't know what Prichard
Speaker 1: was thinking. Of course he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, yeah, what was the planner?
Speaker 1: But of course he I guess theoretically isn't fully aware
Speaker 1: of the mule's abilities, right, So the mule just like
Speaker 1: is like, okay, great, I'm gonna scour your mind. Immediately
Speaker 1: just goes like rifling through the files of his mind.
Speaker 1: Is like, who's Gail Dornic by the way, And Pritchard
Speaker 1: is like his brain partially broken, has to he like
Speaker 1: immediately flees the party.
Speaker 5: I cannot in this situation.
Speaker 1: He's off planet in one hundred forty five seconds.
Speaker 2: It's actually crazy.
Speaker 5: I he was like, this is too much for me.
Speaker 3: I'm out. He knew his limits, and it was having
Speaker 3: his brain scoured beta.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, smart idea is like, wait a second, the sky
Speaker 1: gigantic Kiss appears to be central to.
Speaker 2: The Mule's entire things.
Speaker 1: The mule appears to be taking this guy from planet
Speaker 1: to planet. Why don't we grab him and find out
Speaker 1: what he knows? Meanwhile, Torren, seeing how Pritch failed, figures, Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: Maybe I can do better.
Speaker 1: Uh look at my chest, Look at my abs.
Speaker 2: I'm going up there.
Speaker 3: He's like, no one would ever think I'm trying to
Speaker 3: get any info.
Speaker 5: Don't think about my brain. Just look at these abs.
Speaker 3: Baby, can I rip through my mind through my body?
Speaker 1: Say some of the most cut acting talent working to
Speaker 1: day Baby Foundation, Pritch, Torn Mallows and of course and
Speaker 1: Day like shredded guy.
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say as well, Like the
Speaker 3: biggest rumor right now is that Lee Pace is going
Speaker 3: to be the DCU batman.
Speaker 5: That's like the biggest room of room of.
Speaker 3: Mil I'm saying Lee Pace said, I think that he
Speaker 3: was in conversation about it. That has to be from
Speaker 3: this show. Like, no question, I know James Gunn is
Speaker 3: watching this show thinking, oh he's tall, he's cut he
Speaker 3: can be like really weird six four baby, you know.
Speaker 1: Like batmanful. Torren goes over there and you know, under
Speaker 1: the cover of like oh I'm streaming this still, like hey,
Speaker 1: chat check it.
Speaker 5: Out and with the Mule or on can I can subscribe?
Speaker 5: Subscribe up with the mule?
Speaker 2: You want to know about him? I'm gonna have a
Speaker 2: drink with this guy.
Speaker 1: So the Mule is kind of tickled by Torrent and
Speaker 1: is like, hey, it's a it's a cultural thing. On
Speaker 1: my plan it that we trade insults.
Speaker 5: Let's roast.
Speaker 1: Just do it, roast battle and Torren gets pretty deep.
Speaker 2: He does pretty well.
Speaker 1: The mules impressed, and the Mule tells Torren because of this,
Speaker 1: He's like, listen, I don't want to just rule Kalgan,
Speaker 1: like this is a small change.
Speaker 2: Chat you on me? You got the two gett.
Speaker 1: I want I want the galaxy chat and then he
Speaker 1: and then he like begins to peel like an orange,
Speaker 1: the palm, the skin off Torren's pom as he's.
Speaker 2: Telling them this.
Speaker 1: So Torren, quick thinking, he uses his stream cameras with
Speaker 1: like on flash mode to distract the Mule, and then
Speaker 1: he and Beta flee the party with magnet with magnificent interesting.
Speaker 2: Abo thoughts on the Mule and this and.
Speaker 1: This, this meeting confrontation between the spies of Foundation one
Speaker 1: and the Mule.
Speaker 4: You know, I really pret she ate Beta stepping into
Speaker 4: the limelight in this scene, because Beta is such a
Speaker 4: great character in the books as well, and folks underestimate
Speaker 4: Beta in the books, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, little girl, who are you?
Speaker 4: What are you getting into? You're in over your head?
Speaker 4: And then we see time and time again Beta surprise everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and so I think seeing her step up in this
Speaker 4: moment and actually do something that Pritch should have thought
Speaker 4: of in the first place. Mister master Spy, you ran away?
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, I'm like you.
Speaker 3: I really like both of those ideas of using the
Speaker 3: stream and talking to Magnifico so much better than Pritch
Speaker 3: is just like, hey are you the Mule? Like no,
Speaker 3: this guy is like a he's you know, he can
Speaker 3: read people's minds, you can break people's minds. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It was a little skeptical in the first couple episodes
Speaker 4: when Beta and Mallow were introduced as these like influencer
Speaker 4: TikTok influencer kids, and I was like, Okay, that's an
Speaker 4: interesting reinterpretation of these characters, but I do feel like
Speaker 4: we're going back to the core of the characters.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, We go to trantour Day is with his
Speaker 1: companion's song. They go to the barracks to watch the
Speaker 1: soldiers shower.
Speaker 2: Weird vibe.
Speaker 1: Day finds his the commander who he's been gambling with
Speaker 1: over you know, these last several months and perhaps longer,
Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, you're gonna help me and my
Speaker 1: girlfriend sneak out of the palace and you can come
Speaker 1: with by the way, like it must. You know, don't
Speaker 1: worry about any repercussions because you'll be with me. We'll
Speaker 1: get out of here. And if you help, I'm going
Speaker 1: to make sure that your daughter, who is ill, will
Speaker 1: be healed by He doesn't say it here, but the
Speaker 1: implication clearly is the healing nanites that the emperor has.
Speaker 2: It will give them some of these.
Speaker 1: So Dawn sees Demarzelle kind of walking through the gardens,
Speaker 1: and he tells his companion that Demarzell's a robots.
Speaker 5: She is shocked by that.
Speaker 1: No one's supposed to know this, of course, but excuse me,
Speaker 1: Day spies Demarzell. But of course day Is Day is
Speaker 1: like fully checked out of everything that's happened.
Speaker 3: Why do you I want to know, why do you
Speaker 3: think he tells song that? Because I I feel like
Speaker 3: that's going to have like massive ramifications.
Speaker 4: I think he's he's gone a little soft, right like Empire. Yeah,
Speaker 4: all three empires are always raised as the emperors of
Speaker 4: this galaxy. They know how to do politics, they know
Speaker 4: how to do espionage and subterfusion and manipulation. And I
Speaker 4: think this day in particular is a bit of a
Speaker 4: lover boy. He is in love and this is this
Speaker 4: is his way of saying I love you, I trust you.
Speaker 4: We're about to do this crazy thing together. We're going
Speaker 4: to escape the PA and go off on her own.
Speaker 4: So you know what harm does it do to tell you?
Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense because also Demoiselas also
Speaker 3: like has a lot of control over his life, like
Speaker 3: his kind of for this this like spooky presence to
Speaker 3: him in this escape.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I like that read. I think that's right.
Speaker 3: I was actually very shocked when that happened though, because
Speaker 3: I was like, this is like top secret, like last
Speaker 3: Immortal Robot.
Speaker 5: I feel like you shouldn't be saying something, But I
Speaker 5: like your love a boy.
Speaker 3: Read that's.
Speaker 1: Don and Dusk are arguing about the Mule, about what
Speaker 1: to do about it. De Marcel senses this schism and
Speaker 1: the tension. Dusk doesn't, frankly, understand why this is important
Speaker 1: at all, and of course he is. His mind is
Speaker 1: completely on the fact that in three or four days
Speaker 1: he's going to be evaporated, and that's really what he's
Speaker 1: thinking about, honestly, fat Don says. Don says, the Mule
Speaker 1: is dangerous. We know he's been talking to Gail, so
Speaker 1: I'm sure Gail has been telling him Don, the Mule
Speaker 1: is dangerous. He can put thoughts in your mind. And
Speaker 1: that's why when we have our little conference with the Mule,
Speaker 1: we should do it over video chat. So Don pitches
Speaker 1: the Mule on Kligan becoming part of the empire and
Speaker 1: if you refuse, you know, that could mean war. The
Speaker 1: Mule says, great war.
Speaker 2: I love it. That's what I'm hoping.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the Mule and his pirates are just like fully
Speaker 1: looting Kalgan.
Speaker 4: They're actually that they take over the MTA station. That's
Speaker 4: what they're doing. In that moment. Oh wow, he says
Speaker 4: something like the one of the officers says something like, Okay,
Speaker 4: we've locked down the station, and so I think this
Speaker 4: hints to us that the Mule has greater ambitions and
Speaker 4: that he's actually seizing the means of transportation around calganhu Oh, I's.
Speaker 3: So interesting, Like he's doing again crazy, just looting doing something,
Speaker 3: but really he has like this big a plan.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that was one of the threats from Don right.
Speaker 4: Don was like, well, one of the things if you
Speaker 4: join Empire, one of the things we can offer you
Speaker 4: is access to the transportation system, the galactic transportation system,
Speaker 4: the travel gates. You will be able to expand if
Speaker 4: you want to. And so I think the fact that
Speaker 4: he's just out here he was like Cathinkingham, Yeah, he's
Speaker 4: taking them himself. He doesn't need Empire was the importation
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 2: On transwer various secret plans are taking shape. Days.
Speaker 1: Discussing his escape plan with Song, she is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm scared of Demarzel now now that I know
Speaker 1: she's a robot. I'm like really freaked out about her,
Speaker 1: and maybe we should just stay because it's she would know.
Speaker 2: Right, and we get caught. It's too weird, and it's.
Speaker 1: It's actually scary out beyond up beyond the palace, like
Speaker 1: let's stay here, and days like no, absolutely not, like
Speaker 1: and by the way, let's just do let's just like
Speaker 1: to have a normal chill day.
Speaker 5: For Yeah, could we just have a chill day.
Speaker 1: But before they can do that, Demosel is like, Day,
Speaker 1: come see me in the library. We need to talk
Speaker 1: in the throne room. Dusk and Dawn are continuing to
Speaker 1: argue about the mule. Dawn says, Hey, I've got an
Speaker 1: idea that I definitely didn't get from Gail Dornet. We
Speaker 1: should put under blockade. Yeah, but we should seal it off.
Speaker 1: We should seal off Calgan and Day shows up and
Speaker 1: he's like, what's going on here? Dusk and Dawn think
Speaker 1: Day is acting very strange. Dawn wants Day to call
Speaker 1: because he's really the main guy. He's the theory. He's
Speaker 1: still structurally the main emperor. So they're like pressuring him, listen,
Speaker 1: you need to call an emergency session of the council. Uh,
Speaker 1: so we can discuss this mule stuff in the blockade.
Speaker 1: Den Marosela is like, no, because if we do that,
Speaker 1: that would be giving, that would be basically telling the
Speaker 1: council that we can't do anything without them. Either we
Speaker 1: do it unilateral unilaterally, or we don't do it. But
Speaker 1: if we, if we bring in the Council, that will
Speaker 1: embolden them. Don is like, okay, fine, but can we
Speaker 1: at least put the kalgan in the mule under twenty
Speaker 1: four to seven surveillance. It's not clear that any of
Speaker 1: that is going to happen. Day produces a flask drinks
Speaker 1: to strength, wisdom, and fortitude.
Speaker 2: They all follow.
Speaker 1: Suit and the Cleons have a nice moment together and
Speaker 1: it's very clear that you know the the ascension day
Speaker 1: is coming, and this is like a moment where they're
Speaker 1: all like, okay, hey, we're all moving up and one
Speaker 1: of us is moving out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, some of us is later it's going to die.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of us is not going to be here.
Speaker 4: Really, this was my favorite scene in the episode. First
Speaker 4: tell me why. In particular, I liked the staging and framing,
Speaker 4: the fact that all three of them are doing the
Speaker 4: same hand motions throughout the way they sit in front
Speaker 4: of their thrones, and the way that shot in particular
Speaker 4: was framed I thought was really beautiful. And then I
Speaker 4: really want to hand it to foundation. I think this
Speaker 4: is a show that's not afraid to slow down and
Speaker 4: dwell on moments like this, Like, yeah, we spent quite
Speaker 4: a few minutes just hanging out here with these three
Speaker 4: brothers slash clones, understanding that at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: like they are Empire, they are clones on the first
Speaker 4: whatever they are and whatever they're supposed to be, at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, they are still humans. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and this is a very human moment for three brothers
Speaker 4: to share it together. I appreciated that the show took
Speaker 4: the time to dwell on that.
Speaker 3: I love that read because you know, definitely with season three,
Speaker 3: I've been seeing a lot more like this is Game
Speaker 3: of Thrones in space, like you go to jump in
Speaker 3: and this scene definitely gave me that throwback feeling too.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be able to remember the episode name, Jason,
Speaker 3: I'm sure you will, but you know, the episode.
Speaker 5: Before the bowel where it's just all.
Speaker 3: Of them in the room, like having a conversation, sharing stories.
Speaker 3: I love those kind of things, and I think you're right,
Speaker 3: a boo, they spent more time here than I expected,
Speaker 3: just allowing them to have that moment, you know, and
Speaker 3: just kind of the gravitas of what's happening and the
Speaker 3: importance of those characters being together and what it really
Speaker 3: means to be one of them, because we mostly just
Speaker 3: see like the scheming or the loving or the kind
Speaker 3: of the fun parts, the scary parts, the terrible parts.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: I think that's great, a great moment and also something
Speaker 3: that's important in a story that has so much going on,
Speaker 3: Like there is so much law, so much kind of
Speaker 3: important spycraft and plot lines and and and spaces and scenes.
Speaker 3: So I love that this, this gives that a little
Speaker 3: bit of time to breathe.
Speaker 1: So Day meets with his commander gambling buddy, and the
Speaker 1: commanders agreed, I'll sneak you out, but here's what you
Speaker 1: guys need to do. You guys need to dress like shit,
Speaker 1: you and your girlfriend so that nobody's gonna nobody's gonna
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna look at you and days like. In return
Speaker 1: for this, I'm gonna get you like a nice water
Speaker 1: future for your future. Later, Demarzel comes to see down
Speaker 1: at his garden palace.
Speaker 5: Which we love, like come on iconic.
Speaker 2: Where a song. Don is like, where is she?
Speaker 1: Demarselle is like, well, basically hinting that she's dead or
Speaker 1: as good as dead, and says that because songs ancient
Speaker 1: religion had to do with robots, that was really bad
Speaker 1: that you told her that, because she was not going
Speaker 1: to be able to let that little bit of information go.
Speaker 1: You know, her religion worships the robots. This is gonna
Speaker 1: be this, this type of cult is gonna be important
Speaker 1: going for it's a very ancient robot worshiping cult. And
Speaker 1: Demarcel says, you know, I could have killed her, but
Speaker 1: instead what I did is I just like wiped her
Speaker 1: memories and sent her back where she came from.
Speaker 2: So that's it.
Speaker 1: And I did it for you. Bye, and days like
Speaker 1: out and that is the end of episode three or three.
Speaker 1: And I there's so many things happening, and there's so
Speaker 1: many plots within plots, which is really fun. Aboo your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this episode.
Speaker 4: I'm having a great time with this season so far,
Speaker 4: and I had a great time with this episode. I
Speaker 4: think there were some highlights. In particular, I think the
Speaker 4: mule scene with Beta and Mallow was really great. I
Speaker 4: already called out the wonderful scene between the Empires where
Speaker 4: we got to see them be human and honestly, I
Speaker 4: will say this final scene where Demerzel is talking today
Speaker 4: kind of made me emotional because Demerzel, I think she
Speaker 4: specifically says at one point, like I don't have a
Speaker 4: lot of choices in my life. Not killing your girlfriend
Speaker 4: is a choice I made for you. That is how
Speaker 4: I can show you my love. I could have killed her,
Speaker 4: and in fact I should have killed her. That would
Speaker 4: have been the way to actually nip this in the bud.
Speaker 4: But I know you loved her, or at least you
Speaker 4: felt something for her. So I made a choice, the
Speaker 4: only kind of choice I can within the parameters that
Speaker 4: I have to operate in as a robot. And I
Speaker 4: think a big through line in this season that we
Speaker 4: set up in the first couple episodes is this character
Speaker 4: arc for Demerzel coming to terms with what's next for her,
Speaker 4: what her own purpose is, what happens when Empire falls,
Speaker 4: what does her future look like, and has she made
Speaker 4: all of the right choices up to this point. She's
Speaker 4: dealing with a lot of quote unquote human guilt but
Speaker 4: has to work through it within the framework of her
Speaker 4: robot processing. So I really appreciate you get.
Speaker 1: The sense too that she doesn't even fully she's because
Speaker 1: of like her sessions that she's having with Zephyr, where
Speaker 1: she's trying to unpack like what what are my what
Speaker 1: am I doing?
Speaker 2: Like what what.
Speaker 1: Are my intentions? Am I here trying to help empire?
Speaker 1: Or am I working against them? Or or what do
Speaker 1: I know about myself? You get you really get the
Speaker 1: sense that she doesn't know from minute to minute exactly
Speaker 1: why she is doing the things that previously made so
Speaker 1: much sense to her before. And it's really interesting to
Speaker 1: watch the different emperors like grapple with the fact that like, hey,
Speaker 1: in four months, this shit is older us and for
Speaker 1: for for for dusk, excuse me, it's over even quick
Speaker 1: sooner than that, And all of them while pretending that oh,
Speaker 1: we're dealing with the mule, and we're dealing with the foundation,
Speaker 1: We're dealing with all these things kind of normal things right,
Speaker 1: even though they are they're various crisis situations. All of
Speaker 1: them are also thinking, Okay, I need my exit strategy
Speaker 1: days like get me out it don is like I
Speaker 1: think this whole thing is gonna come apart unless I
Speaker 1: lie with Gail Dornick, who I don't even know actually
Speaker 1: who she works for at this moment, and then Dusk
Speaker 1: is Dusk made a.
Speaker 2: I don't even know why.
Speaker 3: Is that like a universe destroying bomb, like the most
Speaker 3: extensive bomb, Like it doesn't It was over the top.
Speaker 5: It wasn't just like a little bomb.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like an anarchist cupbook bomb like this.
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I mean, by the way, have you seen this video
Speaker 1: of me like trying to run away while being from
Speaker 1: my execution?
Speaker 2: And also like can we push that deadline back?
Speaker 3: By the way, I was gonna say a boo and Jason,
Speaker 3: both of you know more about this than me. Something
Speaker 3: I'm really feeling about season three is like it feels
Speaker 3: like it's a lot about kind of the way that
Speaker 3: people don't really have choice in this world, Like everything
Speaker 3: is set out for you for the good of you know,
Speaker 3: whatever side you're on.
Speaker 5: And I found that that was really interesting.
Speaker 3: And I think that's why the demoisel thing hits because
Speaker 3: just like the human you know, inverted commas clone characters,
Speaker 3: which everyone to think she actually like wants, has wants
Speaker 3: and needs and things that she liked, but she doesn't.
Speaker 5: She isn't allowed to put them out there.
Speaker 3: And that moment where she makes the choice to allow
Speaker 3: someone to live, I think is just really powerful in
Speaker 3: a world where kind of everyone is trying to run
Speaker 3: away from the fact that they don't have a choice
Speaker 3: in their life. They don't really they can't choose anything
Speaker 3: because everything is set out ahead of them. Over All
Speaker 3: this kind of insane amount of period of time that
Speaker 3: you can't even.
Speaker 5: Really consider how long it is.
Speaker 3: I just think it's a I think it's a really
Speaker 3: interesting thing for sci fi to explore in a way
Speaker 3: that we haven't really seen before on this Gael Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean the question of like predestination lingers over this
Speaker 4: entire series over the is it even possible? And I
Speaker 4: think like what's always so interesting is like this is
Speaker 4: also just the question of fate and faith, right, and
Speaker 4: it's just put in scientific terms. It's psychohistory and Harry
Speaker 4: Selden as your prophet versus you know, whatever religion and
Speaker 4: whatever prophet you know insert name and certain religion, and
Speaker 4: ultimately it still comes down to the same human questions, right,
Speaker 4: Like we are still watching Empire, all three of them
Speaker 4: crash out because.
Speaker 2: They're just like PRIs absolutely in.
Speaker 4: The face of a faith they they didn't believe in
Speaker 4: in season one and in fact rejected and now have
Speaker 4: come around to where to the point where Don is
Speaker 4: like looking for the ancient texts and out here communicating
Speaker 4: with Gail Dornic, one of the leaders of this you know,
Speaker 4: the foundation. So like that question, Sho, definitely, Rosie, You're
Speaker 4: absolutely correct. This idea of how much autonomy and choice
Speaker 4: do I have if the math shows this is what's
Speaker 4: going to happen. That lingers over every character, over every
Speaker 4: book of this series, and it's one of the most
Speaker 4: interesting parts of.
Speaker 2: It for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that for me. There's like a
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics idea here too, where oh, you know, the
Speaker 1: idea that when you observe something, you naturally change it,
Speaker 1: And I think that's happening here too, where sure, maybe
Speaker 1: Selden's formula was accurate, but as soon as you start
Speaker 1: paying attention to as soon as that has been revealed
Speaker 1: to you, the future.
Speaker 5: Is changing now because you're aware of it.
Speaker 1: Because you're aware of it, and we're seeing that all
Speaker 1: the time, where you know, the math is way off.
Speaker 1: The dark Ages are coming in four months. Nobody knows
Speaker 1: why the math is off. But except for all these
Speaker 1: like huge variables that have been introduced, like the mule
Speaker 1: and like Gail Dornic currently being a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: all these all these things that weren't in the original formula.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I think what it's saying is, yes,
Speaker 1: we do have free will, but but you can't necessarily
Speaker 1: square that any kind of prediction of the future. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because as soon as you become aware of a prediction
Speaker 1: of the future, you've changed it enough where the prediction
Speaker 1: is going to be off enough somehow.
Speaker 2: Okay, fun episode, Yeah, Love.
Speaker 1: Next time an extra vision, we're gathering our round table
Speaker 1: for a deep dive on Fantastic for first Steps. Thank
Speaker 1: you to our our spice master a Boot again for Foundation.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening by x Ray.
Speaker 1: Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsi, I'm Rosy Night and
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Podcasts Are.
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan.
Speaker 5: And Fay Wag.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator,