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Speaker 1: Warning, this episode contains spoilers for a Foundation season three

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Speaker 1: episode three. Hello, my name is Jason Sepsion and I'm

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Speaker 1: Rosy Night, and welcome back to x ray Vision of

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Speaker 1: the podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,

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Speaker 1: and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: We're here and iHeart podcast.

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Speaker 1: We'll bring you three episodes every week Tuesday Thursday, and.

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Speaker 2: The summer's biggest movies every Friday, plus news on Saturday,

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Speaker 2: plus news.

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Speaker 3: In today's episode, most importantly for me, as a new

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Speaker 3: space traveler in the world of Foundation, we are bringing

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Speaker 3: back our spice Master.

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Speaker 2: A boo, A boo.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Always a pleasure.

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Speaker 5: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: I think this interests This is an episode that really

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Speaker 3: I have a lot of questions about in broadens the

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Speaker 3: wild a little bit, so let's talk about it.

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Speaker 5: I'm really excited to do this with you guys.

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Speaker 1: Episode three, season three, When a Book Finds You. We

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Speaker 1: open three years ago, flashback to the library where Don

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Speaker 1: current Don was down. Then rise to the library and

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Speaker 1: he's like, I what do you got on psychohistory? Give

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Speaker 1: me all the books on psychohistory, and the library is like, ahaa,

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Speaker 1: I'll take you to see the old books, and they

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Speaker 1: go back there. And what's very interesting is it's very

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Speaker 1: clear here that down is beginning to become work.

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Speaker 2: Is psychohistory curious? Hold on, do we get it wrong?

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Speaker 1: Maybe did cleon the whatever the whichever one he was back? Then?

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Speaker 2: Do we get it wrong?

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Speaker 1: Is psychohistory a lot more interesting with a lot more

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Speaker 1: to tell us about the world than we thought?

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Speaker 2: Is that the case?

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Speaker 1: So he goes back there and they show him I

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Speaker 1: believe it's the ninth Book of Folding book right, which

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Speaker 1: is a Callan's ninth ninth Theorem of Folding, which was

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Speaker 1: a very a very important book, a source book for

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Speaker 1: Harry Seldon's work. And Donn is like, well, how did

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Speaker 1: you even get this book? And the library is like

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Speaker 1: super super cagey about it and is like, by the way,

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Speaker 1: the person who left the book here said that if

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Speaker 1: anybody ever came looking for it, that we should tell them.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to do that.

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Speaker 1: And guess who it was who left that little message

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Speaker 1: and who brought the book back? It was Gaild her

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Speaker 1: periods of being awake when she was not frozen. Who

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Speaker 1: knows when this could have been like aboo, any idea

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Speaker 1: timeline wise when this might have happened.

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Speaker 4: I I'm unclear on that.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it's got to be some time after

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Speaker 1: her for awakening, the first time she was unfrozen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think anyway, so day, I mean, excuse me.

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Speaker 1: Dusk, all disguised up, goes to a tea house to

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Speaker 1: meet this mysterious person.

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Speaker 2: It's Gail Dorning and they begin plotting together.

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Speaker 1: He's like, how are you still alive? She's like, weird

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Speaker 1: question coming from you, but it's cryos.

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Speaker 3: Come on, my guy, Like, what do you mean you

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Speaker 3: think of anyone?

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Speaker 2: Who else is it going to be?

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Speaker 1: So apparently Gail and the Foundation have been using the

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Speaker 1: Ninth Book as like a lure for.

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Speaker 2: People who are.

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Speaker 1: Have the same kind of mindset as what Foundation is

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Speaker 1: looking for. And Gale and Dawn they kind of spar

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Speaker 1: back and forth about like whose fault everything is? And

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Speaker 1: Dawn eventually tells Gail that the Empire has the prime

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Speaker 1: Radiant that Harry Seldon gave it to him.

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Speaker 2: This is a shock to Gail.

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Speaker 1: Don uh Is, like, listen, the data is obviously like

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Speaker 1: fucked and Demarzelle has been is the gate is the

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Speaker 1: Gatekeeper basically of the prime radiant data, and I believe

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Speaker 1: that she's interpreting the data in a way that is

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Speaker 1: only beneficial the Empire, not the galaxy, and I care

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Speaker 1: about the galaxy. So Gail's like, Okay, here's here's my

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Speaker 1: pitch escape Empire.

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Speaker 2: And we keep talking.

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Speaker 1: We deal with the threat of the mule, which I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you is a big deal, and Don is like,

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Speaker 1: I'll think about it, and he reaches out and then

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Speaker 1: his hand goes right through Gale's wrist.

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Speaker 2: She's a hologram.

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Speaker 4: A tough choice as far as disguises go. I'm not

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Speaker 4: so sure about the goate look for.

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Speaker 5: A lot more.

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Speaker 3: Have you guys seen the movie pop Star Never Stop

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Speaker 3: Popping Iconic Lone Moe, one of the funniest movies ever made.

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Speaker 3: I always think about when anyone puts on a disguise.

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Speaker 3: I always think about the Andy Sambak character. He puts

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Speaker 3: on like a full face of makeup, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: he does like a prostatic knows like that's how he

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Speaker 3: does it to hide from the press. And I always think,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, you guys are not doing enough what the

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Speaker 3: disguise is, Like, you got to really put that stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you gotta go full mission impossible.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you need a fake mosque.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the facial recognition technology. However, many thousands of years

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Speaker 1: in the future, this has got to be great.

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Speaker 2: We go to the present.

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Speaker 1: Don reads a secret message, he destroys it. He gets

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Speaker 1: this little Gail communicator out and they start talking and

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Speaker 1: Gail tells Dawn that he needs to ask the council

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Speaker 1: to do like a siege, like let's let's let's completely

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Speaker 1: seal off Kalgan. Don is like, but, like, that's not

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Speaker 1: even imperial territory. It'll start a war with original og Foundation,

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Speaker 1: First Foundation. And Gail is like, let me handle the bitches.

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Speaker 6: She said, I it's like she was like, She's like,

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Speaker 6: Harry Selden gave me this ninth proof manuscript and twelve

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Speaker 6: O sixty seven, Like, come.

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Speaker 1: On, Mariam is a fucking pushover. And she's like, listen,

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Speaker 1: the mule. Nobody's getting it. We need to act now

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Speaker 1: because the mule quickly will become too strong for us

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Speaker 1: to deal with. And she warns Don that also it's

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Speaker 1: gonna sound crazy, okay, but the mule can control people's minds,

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Speaker 1: and Don was like, what he's like, peace and then

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Speaker 1: she hangs up Kalgan. It's the big party. It's the

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Speaker 1: Mule Party, Torn Beta and Preitch. The spies enter Spicy

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Speaker 1: with no shirt.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about the outsits?

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Speaker 3: I love this. It's like, you know, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: like the opposite of being solid's like hiding and play insight.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I gotta look extra sexy that no one would.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he's live streaming. The whole thing is

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Speaker 4: a little like vlog Cambridge.

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Speaker 2: So fun. Okay, so it's spy time.

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Speaker 1: We see at the center of it all the Mules,

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Speaker 1: personal balladeer DJ Magnifico Giganticus.

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Speaker 5: This is why is this.

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Speaker 3: Is the funnest fantastic This is like the most fun

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Speaker 3: episode of this season so far. There's so much like

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Speaker 3: in depth political lore and kind of and Spycroft like

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Speaker 3: stage setting that the first two episodes do. But this

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Speaker 3: episode is.

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Speaker 5: Like a blost everyone.

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Speaker 3: They just sneaking on everyone and there's a potty I mean,

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Speaker 3: who doesn't want to be named Magnifico Giganticus is like

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Speaker 3: the best name of all time.

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Speaker 5: Like that's that's a bad name than duncan Idaho.

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Speaker 2: Like, come on, man, I absolutely love it.

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Speaker 1: They drop a mike Sure, ask name on us magnifical

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Speaker 1: and magnifico. Giganticus plays like it appears to be a

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Speaker 1: highly advanced like Beats Bluetooth speaker and is just like,

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Speaker 1: has the room and trance that mule.

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Speaker 5: Come out of that speaker, But it's not connected.

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Speaker 1: That the mule is just chilling watching it all. He's

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Speaker 1: with Scarlet and some other like his other top lieutenants.

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Speaker 2: Pritch comes over.

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Speaker 1: And bad idea. I think I don't know what Prichard

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Speaker 1: was thinking. Of course he doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Really yeah, yeah, what was the planner?

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Speaker 1: But of course he I guess theoretically isn't fully aware

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Speaker 1: of the mule's abilities, right, So the mule just like

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Speaker 1: is like, okay, great, I'm gonna scour your mind. Immediately

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Speaker 1: just goes like rifling through the files of his mind.

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Speaker 1: Is like, who's Gail Dornic by the way, And Pritchard

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Speaker 1: is like his brain partially broken, has to he like

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Speaker 1: immediately flees the party.

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Speaker 5: I cannot in this situation.

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Speaker 1: He's off planet in one hundred forty five seconds.

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Speaker 2: It's actually crazy.

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Speaker 5: I he was like, this is too much for me.

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Speaker 3: I'm out. He knew his limits, and it was having

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Speaker 3: his brain scoured beta.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, smart idea is like, wait a second, the sky

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Speaker 1: gigantic Kiss appears to be central to.

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Speaker 2: The Mule's entire things.

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Speaker 1: The mule appears to be taking this guy from planet

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Speaker 1: to planet. Why don't we grab him and find out

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Speaker 1: what he knows? Meanwhile, Torren, seeing how Pritch failed, figures, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I guess.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I can do better.

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Speaker 1: Uh look at my chest, Look at my abs.

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Speaker 2: I'm going up there.

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Speaker 3: He's like, no one would ever think I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: get any info.

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Speaker 5: Don't think about my brain. Just look at these abs.

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Speaker 3: Baby, can I rip through my mind through my body?

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Speaker 1: Say some of the most cut acting talent working to

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Speaker 1: day Baby Foundation, Pritch, Torn Mallows and of course and

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Speaker 1: Day like shredded guy.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say as well, Like the

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Speaker 3: biggest rumor right now is that Lee Pace is going

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Speaker 3: to be the DCU batman.

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Speaker 5: That's like the biggest room of room of.

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Speaker 3: Mil I'm saying Lee Pace said, I think that he

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Speaker 3: was in conversation about it. That has to be from

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Speaker 3: this show. Like, no question, I know James Gunn is

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Speaker 3: watching this show thinking, oh he's tall, he's cut he

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Speaker 3: can be like really weird six four baby, you know.

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Speaker 1: Like batmanful. Torren goes over there and you know, under

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Speaker 1: the cover of like oh I'm streaming this still, like hey,

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Speaker 1: chat check it.

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Speaker 5: Out and with the Mule or on can I can subscribe?

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Speaker 5: Subscribe up with the mule?

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Speaker 2: You want to know about him? I'm gonna have a

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Speaker 2: drink with this guy.

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Speaker 1: So the Mule is kind of tickled by Torrent and

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Speaker 1: is like, hey, it's a it's a cultural thing. On

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Speaker 1: my plan it that we trade insults.

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Speaker 5: Let's roast.

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Speaker 1: Just do it, roast battle and Torren gets pretty deep.

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Speaker 2: He does pretty well.

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Speaker 1: The mules impressed, and the Mule tells Torren because of this,

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Speaker 1: He's like, listen, I don't want to just rule Kalgan,

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Speaker 1: like this is a small change.

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Speaker 2: Chat you on me? You got the two gett.

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Speaker 1: I want I want the galaxy chat and then he

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Speaker 1: and then he like begins to peel like an orange,

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Speaker 1: the palm, the skin off Torren's pom as he's.

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Speaker 2: Telling them this.

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Speaker 1: So Torren, quick thinking, he uses his stream cameras with

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Speaker 1: like on flash mode to distract the Mule, and then

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Speaker 1: he and Beta flee the party with magnet with magnificent interesting.

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Speaker 2: Abo thoughts on the Mule and this and.

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Speaker 1: This, this meeting confrontation between the spies of Foundation one

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Speaker 1: and the Mule.

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Speaker 4: You know, I really pret she ate Beta stepping into

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Speaker 4: the limelight in this scene, because Beta is such a

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Speaker 4: great character in the books as well, and folks underestimate

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Speaker 4: Beta in the books, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, little girl, who are you?

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Speaker 4: What are you getting into? You're in over your head?

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Speaker 4: And then we see time and time again Beta surprise everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and so I think seeing her step up in this

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Speaker 4: moment and actually do something that Pritch should have thought

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Speaker 4: of in the first place. Mister master Spy, you ran away?

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Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, I'm like you.

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Speaker 3: I really like both of those ideas of using the

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Speaker 3: stream and talking to Magnifico so much better than Pritch

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Speaker 3: is just like, hey are you the Mule? Like no,

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Speaker 3: this guy is like a he's you know, he can

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Speaker 3: read people's minds, you can break people's minds. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was a little skeptical in the first couple episodes

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Speaker 4: when Beta and Mallow were introduced as these like influencer

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Speaker 4: TikTok influencer kids, and I was like, Okay, that's an

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Speaker 4: interesting reinterpretation of these characters, but I do feel like

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Speaker 4: we're going back to the core of the characters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, We go to trantour Day is with his

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Speaker 1: companion's song. They go to the barracks to watch the

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Speaker 1: soldiers shower.

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Speaker 2: Weird vibe.

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Speaker 1: Day finds his the commander who he's been gambling with

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Speaker 1: over you know, these last several months and perhaps longer,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, you're gonna help me and my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend sneak out of the palace and you can come

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Speaker 1: with by the way, like it must. You know, don't

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Speaker 1: worry about any repercussions because you'll be with me. We'll

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Speaker 1: get out of here. And if you help, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to make sure that your daughter, who is ill, will

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Speaker 1: be healed by He doesn't say it here, but the

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Speaker 1: implication clearly is the healing nanites that the emperor has.

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Speaker 2: It will give them some of these.

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Speaker 1: So Dawn sees Demarzelle kind of walking through the gardens,

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Speaker 1: and he tells his companion that Demarzell's a robots.

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Speaker 5: She is shocked by that.

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Speaker 1: No one's supposed to know this, of course, but excuse me,

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Speaker 1: Day spies Demarzell. But of course day Is Day is

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Speaker 1: like fully checked out of everything that's happened.

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Speaker 3: Why do you I want to know, why do you

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Speaker 3: think he tells song that? Because I I feel like

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Speaker 3: that's going to have like massive ramifications.

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Speaker 4: I think he's he's gone a little soft, right like Empire. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: all three empires are always raised as the emperors of

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Speaker 4: this galaxy. They know how to do politics, they know

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Speaker 4: how to do espionage and subterfusion and manipulation. And I

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Speaker 4: think this day in particular is a bit of a

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Speaker 4: lover boy. He is in love and this is this

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Speaker 4: is his way of saying I love you, I trust you.

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Speaker 4: We're about to do this crazy thing together. We're going

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Speaker 4: to escape the PA and go off on her own.

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Speaker 4: So you know what harm does it do to tell you?

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Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense because also Demoiselas also

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Speaker 3: like has a lot of control over his life, like

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Speaker 3: his kind of for this this like spooky presence to

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Speaker 3: him in this escape.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I like that read. I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: I was actually very shocked when that happened though, because

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is like top secret, like last

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Speaker 3: Immortal Robot.

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Speaker 5: I feel like you shouldn't be saying something, But I

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Speaker 5: like your love a boy.

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Speaker 3: Read that's.

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Speaker 1: Don and Dusk are arguing about the Mule, about what

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Speaker 1: to do about it. De Marcel senses this schism and

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Speaker 1: the tension. Dusk doesn't, frankly, understand why this is important

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Speaker 1: at all, and of course he is. His mind is

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Speaker 1: completely on the fact that in three or four days

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Speaker 1: he's going to be evaporated, and that's really what he's

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Speaker 1: thinking about, honestly, fat Don says. Don says, the Mule

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Speaker 1: is dangerous. We know he's been talking to Gail, so

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Gail has been telling him Don, the Mule

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Speaker 1: is dangerous. He can put thoughts in your mind. And

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Speaker 1: that's why when we have our little conference with the Mule,

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Speaker 1: we should do it over video chat. So Don pitches

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Speaker 1: the Mule on Kligan becoming part of the empire and

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Speaker 1: if you refuse, you know, that could mean war. The

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Speaker 1: Mule says, great war.

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Speaker 2: I love it. That's what I'm hoping.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the Mule and his pirates are just like fully

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Speaker 1: looting Kalgan.

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Speaker 4: They're actually that they take over the MTA station. That's

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Speaker 4: what they're doing. In that moment. Oh wow, he says

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Speaker 4: something like the one of the officers says something like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: we've locked down the station, and so I think this

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Speaker 4: hints to us that the Mule has greater ambitions and

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Speaker 4: that he's actually seizing the means of transportation around calganhu Oh, I's.

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Speaker 3: So interesting, Like he's doing again crazy, just looting doing something,

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Speaker 3: but really he has like this big a plan.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And that was one of the threats from Don right.

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Speaker 4: Don was like, well, one of the things if you

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Speaker 4: join Empire, one of the things we can offer you

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Speaker 4: is access to the transportation system, the galactic transportation system,

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Speaker 4: the travel gates. You will be able to expand if

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Speaker 4: you want to. And so I think the fact that

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Speaker 4: he's just out here he was like Cathinkingham, Yeah, he's

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Speaker 4: taking them himself. He doesn't need Empire was the importation

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 2: On transwer various secret plans are taking shape. Days.

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Speaker 1: Discussing his escape plan with Song, she is like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: but I'm scared of Demarzel now now that I know

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Speaker 1: she's a robot. I'm like really freaked out about her,

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Speaker 1: and maybe we should just stay because it's she would know.

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Speaker 2: Right, and we get caught. It's too weird, and it's.

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Speaker 1: It's actually scary out beyond up beyond the palace, like

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Speaker 1: let's stay here, and days like no, absolutely not, like

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Speaker 1: and by the way, let's just do let's just like

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Speaker 1: to have a normal chill day.

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Speaker 5: For Yeah, could we just have a chill day.

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Speaker 1: But before they can do that, Demosel is like, Day,

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Speaker 1: come see me in the library. We need to talk

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Speaker 1: in the throne room. Dusk and Dawn are continuing to

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Speaker 1: argue about the mule. Dawn says, Hey, I've got an

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Speaker 1: idea that I definitely didn't get from Gail Dornet. We

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Speaker 1: should put under blockade. Yeah, but we should seal it off.

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Speaker 1: We should seal off Calgan and Day shows up and

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Speaker 1: he's like, what's going on here? Dusk and Dawn think

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Speaker 1: Day is acting very strange. Dawn wants Day to call

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Speaker 1: because he's really the main guy. He's the theory. He's

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Speaker 1: still structurally the main emperor. So they're like pressuring him, listen,

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Speaker 1: you need to call an emergency session of the council. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so we can discuss this mule stuff in the blockade.

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Speaker 1: Den Marosela is like, no, because if we do that,

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Speaker 1: that would be giving, that would be basically telling the

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Speaker 1: council that we can't do anything without them. Either we

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Speaker 1: do it unilateral unilaterally, or we don't do it. But

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Speaker 1: if we, if we bring in the Council, that will

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Speaker 1: embolden them. Don is like, okay, fine, but can we

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Speaker 1: at least put the kalgan in the mule under twenty

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Speaker 1: four to seven surveillance. It's not clear that any of

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Speaker 1: that is going to happen. Day produces a flask drinks

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Speaker 1: to strength, wisdom, and fortitude.

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Speaker 2: They all follow.

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Speaker 1: Suit and the Cleons have a nice moment together and

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Speaker 1: it's very clear that you know the the ascension day

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Speaker 1: is coming, and this is like a moment where they're

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Speaker 1: all like, okay, hey, we're all moving up and one

359
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Speaker 1: of us is moving out.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, some of us is later it's going to die.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one of us is not going to be here.

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Speaker 4: Really, this was my favorite scene in the episode. First

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Speaker 4: tell me why. In particular, I liked the staging and framing,

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Speaker 4: the fact that all three of them are doing the

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Speaker 4: same hand motions throughout the way they sit in front

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Speaker 4: of their thrones, and the way that shot in particular

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Speaker 4: was framed I thought was really beautiful. And then I

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Speaker 4: really want to hand it to foundation. I think this

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Speaker 4: is a show that's not afraid to slow down and

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Speaker 4: dwell on moments like this, Like, yeah, we spent quite

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Speaker 4: a few minutes just hanging out here with these three

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Speaker 4: brothers slash clones, understanding that at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: like they are Empire, they are clones on the first

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Speaker 4: whatever they are and whatever they're supposed to be, at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, they are still humans. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and this is a very human moment for three brothers

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Speaker 4: to share it together. I appreciated that the show took

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Speaker 4: the time to dwell on that.

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Speaker 3: I love that read because you know, definitely with season three,

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Speaker 3: I've been seeing a lot more like this is Game

381
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Speaker 3: of Thrones in space, like you go to jump in

382
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Speaker 3: and this scene definitely gave me that throwback feeling too.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to be able to remember the episode name, Jason,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you will, but you know, the episode.

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Speaker 5: Before the bowel where it's just all.

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Speaker 3: Of them in the room, like having a conversation, sharing stories.

387
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Speaker 3: I love those kind of things, and I think you're right,

388
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Speaker 3: a boo, they spent more time here than I expected,

389
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Speaker 3: just allowing them to have that moment, you know, and

390
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Speaker 3: just kind of the gravitas of what's happening and the

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Speaker 3: importance of those characters being together and what it really

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Speaker 3: means to be one of them, because we mostly just

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Speaker 3: see like the scheming or the loving or the kind

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Speaker 3: of the fun parts, the scary parts, the terrible parts.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 3: I think that's great, a great moment and also something

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Speaker 3: that's important in a story that has so much going on,

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Speaker 3: Like there is so much law, so much kind of

399
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 3: important spycraft and plot lines and and and spaces and scenes.

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Speaker 3: So I love that this, this gives that a little

401
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Speaker 3: bit of time to breathe.

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Speaker 1: So Day meets with his commander gambling buddy, and the

403
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: commanders agreed, I'll sneak you out, but here's what you

404
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: guys need to do. You guys need to dress like shit,

405
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: you and your girlfriend so that nobody's gonna nobody's gonna

406
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna look at you and days like. In return

407
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 1: for this, I'm gonna get you like a nice water

408
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 1: future for your future. Later, Demarzel comes to see down

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Speaker 1: at his garden palace.

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Speaker 5: Which we love, like come on iconic.

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Speaker 2: Where a song. Don is like, where is she?

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Speaker 1: Demarselle is like, well, basically hinting that she's dead or

413
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Speaker 1: as good as dead, and says that because songs ancient

414
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: religion had to do with robots, that was really bad

415
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: that you told her that, because she was not going

416
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Speaker 1: to be able to let that little bit of information go.

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Speaker 1: You know, her religion worships the robots. This is gonna

418
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Speaker 1: be this, this type of cult is gonna be important

419
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: going for it's a very ancient robot worshiping cult. And

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Speaker 1: Demarcel says, you know, I could have killed her, but

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Speaker 1: instead what I did is I just like wiped her

422
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Speaker 1: memories and sent her back where she came from.

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Speaker 2: So that's it.

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Speaker 1: And I did it for you. Bye, and days like

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00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: out and that is the end of episode three or three.

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Speaker 1: And I there's so many things happening, and there's so

427
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: many plots within plots, which is really fun. Aboo your

428
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Speaker 1: thoughts on this episode.

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Speaker 4: I'm having a great time with this season so far,

430
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 4: and I had a great time with this episode. I

431
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 4: think there were some highlights. In particular, I think the

432
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 4: mule scene with Beta and Mallow was really great. I

433
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 4: already called out the wonderful scene between the Empires where

434
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 4: we got to see them be human and honestly, I

435
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 4: will say this final scene where Demerzel is talking today

436
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 4: kind of made me emotional because Demerzel, I think she

437
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 4: specifically says at one point, like I don't have a

438
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 4: lot of choices in my life. Not killing your girlfriend

439
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: is a choice I made for you. That is how

440
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 4: I can show you my love. I could have killed her,

441
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 4: and in fact I should have killed her. That would

442
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 4: have been the way to actually nip this in the bud.

443
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 4: But I know you loved her, or at least you

444
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 4: felt something for her. So I made a choice, the

445
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 4: only kind of choice I can within the parameters that

446
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 4: I have to operate in as a robot. And I

447
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 4: think a big through line in this season that we

448
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 4: set up in the first couple episodes is this character

449
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 4: arc for Demerzel coming to terms with what's next for her,

450
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 4: what her own purpose is, what happens when Empire falls,

451
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 4: what does her future look like, and has she made

452
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: all of the right choices up to this point. She's

453
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: dealing with a lot of quote unquote human guilt but

454
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 4: has to work through it within the framework of her

455
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 4: robot processing. So I really appreciate you get.

456
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 1: The sense too that she doesn't even fully she's because

457
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: of like her sessions that she's having with Zephyr, where

458
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: she's trying to unpack like what what are my what

459
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: am I doing?

460
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: Like what what.

461
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: Are my intentions? Am I here trying to help empire?

462
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: Or am I working against them? Or or what do

463
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: I know about myself? You get you really get the

464
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: sense that she doesn't know from minute to minute exactly

465
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: why she is doing the things that previously made so

466
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: much sense to her before. And it's really interesting to

467
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: watch the different emperors like grapple with the fact that like, hey,

468
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: in four months, this shit is older us and for

469
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: for for for dusk, excuse me, it's over even quick

470
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: sooner than that, And all of them while pretending that oh,

471
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: we're dealing with the mule, and we're dealing with the foundation,

472
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: We're dealing with all these things kind of normal things right,

473
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: even though they are they're various crisis situations. All of

474
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: them are also thinking, Okay, I need my exit strategy

475
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: days like get me out it don is like I

476
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: think this whole thing is gonna come apart unless I

477
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: lie with Gail Dornick, who I don't even know actually

478
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: who she works for at this moment, and then Dusk

479
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: is Dusk made a.

480
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 2: I don't even know why.

481
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: Is that like a universe destroying bomb, like the most

482
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: extensive bomb, Like it doesn't It was over the top.

483
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 5: It wasn't just like a little bomb.

484
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: It wasn't like an anarchist cupbook bomb like this.

485
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.

486
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: I mean, by the way, have you seen this video

487
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: of me like trying to run away while being from

488
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: my execution?

489
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 2: And also like can we push that deadline back?

490
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: By the way, I was gonna say a boo and Jason,

491
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 3: both of you know more about this than me. Something

492
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 3: I'm really feeling about season three is like it feels

493
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 3: like it's a lot about kind of the way that

494
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: people don't really have choice in this world, Like everything

495
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 3: is set out for you for the good of you know,

496
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: whatever side you're on.

497
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 5: And I found that that was really interesting.

498
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 3: And I think that's why the demoisel thing hits because

499
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: just like the human you know, inverted commas clone characters,

500
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 3: which everyone to think she actually like wants, has wants

501
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: and needs and things that she liked, but she doesn't.

502
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 5: She isn't allowed to put them out there.

503
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 3: And that moment where she makes the choice to allow

504
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: someone to live, I think is just really powerful in

505
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: a world where kind of everyone is trying to run

506
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: away from the fact that they don't have a choice

507
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 3: in their life. They don't really they can't choose anything

508
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: because everything is set out ahead of them. Over All

509
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 3: this kind of insane amount of period of time that

510
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: you can't even.

511
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 5: Really consider how long it is.

512
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 3: I just think it's a I think it's a really

513
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 3: interesting thing for sci fi to explore in a way

514
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 3: that we haven't really seen before on this Gael Yeah.

515
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 4: I mean the question of like predestination lingers over this

516
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 4: entire series over the is it even possible? And I

517
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 4: think like what's always so interesting is like this is

518
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 4: also just the question of fate and faith, right, and

519
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: it's just put in scientific terms. It's psychohistory and Harry

520
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 4: Selden as your prophet versus you know, whatever religion and

521
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 4: whatever prophet you know insert name and certain religion, and

522
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: ultimately it still comes down to the same human questions, right,

523
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 4: Like we are still watching Empire, all three of them

524
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 4: crash out because.

525
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: They're just like PRIs absolutely in.

526
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 4: The face of a faith they they didn't believe in

527
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: in season one and in fact rejected and now have

528
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 4: come around to where to the point where Don is

529
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 4: like looking for the ancient texts and out here communicating

530
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 4: with Gail Dornic, one of the leaders of this you know,

531
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 4: the foundation. So like that question, Sho, definitely, Rosie, You're

532
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 4: absolutely correct. This idea of how much autonomy and choice

533
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 4: do I have if the math shows this is what's

534
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 4: going to happen. That lingers over every character, over every

535
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 4: book of this series, and it's one of the most

536
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: interesting parts of.

537
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: It for sure.

538
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that for me. There's like a

539
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics idea here too, where oh, you know, the

540
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: idea that when you observe something, you naturally change it,

541
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's happening here too, where sure, maybe

542
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: Selden's formula was accurate, but as soon as you start

543
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: paying attention to as soon as that has been revealed

544
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: to you, the future.

545
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 5: Is changing now because you're aware of it.

546
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: Because you're aware of it, and we're seeing that all

547
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: the time, where you know, the math is way off.

548
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: The dark Ages are coming in four months. Nobody knows

549
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: why the math is off. But except for all these

550
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: like huge variables that have been introduced, like the mule

551
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: and like Gail Dornic currently being a lot, you know,

552
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: all these all these things that weren't in the original formula.

553
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I think what it's saying is, yes,

554
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: we do have free will, but but you can't necessarily

555
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: square that any kind of prediction of the future. Yeah,

556
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: because as soon as you become aware of a prediction

557
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: of the future, you've changed it enough where the prediction

558
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: is going to be off enough somehow.

559
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: Okay, fun episode, Yeah, Love.

560
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: Next time an extra vision, we're gathering our round table

561
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: for a deep dive on Fantastic for first Steps. Thank

562
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: you to our our spice master a Boot again for Foundation.

563
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening by x Ray.

564
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsi, I'm Rosy Night and

565
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Podcasts Are.

566
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: Executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

567
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

568
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan.

569
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 5: And Fay Wag.

570
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez with alternate theme

571
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

572
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

573
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator,