1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,240
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This isn't right.

2
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 2: The family a little Joscelyn, just twelve years old, erupts

3
00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,160
Speaker 2: in open court when they are sitting there hearing the

4
00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 2: facts laid out in court that this little Texas girl there, Joscelyn,

5
00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 2: is lured under a bridge, stripped bound with her hands

6
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 2: behind her back, sex assaulted and strangled.

7
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: I guess they did.

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 2: Erupt this, as the prosecutor says, I don't know if

9
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,680
Speaker 2: we can seek the death penalty. You can. Good evening,

10
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

11
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. Slain twelve year old girl,

12
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 3: Joscelyn Nungery's family lashing out in court as the two

13
00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 3: men accused of killing their daughter are arraigned. I hope

14
00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,120
Speaker 3: they kill your children.

15
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 2: I can't imagine the pain, the anger, the hurt that

16
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 2: this family is feeling as we learn the defendants may

17
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,319
Speaker 2: not even be exposed to the death penalty. There's not

18
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,200
Speaker 2: a chance of the death penalty. What is the family

19
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,360
Speaker 2: supposed to think? They erupt in open court as they

20
00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 2: find out the horrific details surrounding the death of their girl,

21
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,520
Speaker 2: twelve year old Joscelyn.

22
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 4: Listen this victim was found you, bound and without clothing

23
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,919
Speaker 4: from the waist down in the water, and we.

24
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 1: Just think that there's a good possibility. We hope that

25
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 1: there's evidence that remains to be tested.

26
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 5: I'm still fighting for her, and I just remember that

27
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 5: she was a very special little girl that deserves her justice.

28
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:00,480
Speaker 6: I know.

29
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 5: She's going to make a difference in this world for

30
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 5: all children. And now it's my job to make sure

31
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 5: it continues to happen.

32
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,359
Speaker 2: Why is it on the mom Why is it her

33
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 2: job to make sure that there is justice? And I

34
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 2: got to go to this panel with me an all

35
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 2: star panel. But first to Corey eat Peel, investigative reporter

36
00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,679
Speaker 2: KPRC two in Houston.

37
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 1: Corey, did I just hear.

38
00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 2: The prosecutor, whom I've always respected up until a few

39
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 2: moments ago, state she was found pause unclothed, pause, unclothed,

40
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 2: talk about putting perfume on the pig, airbrushing, whitewashing, unclothed.

41
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:51,560
Speaker 2: I could be in a changing room in Nordstroms and

42
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:52,639
Speaker 2: be unclothed.

43
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:58,959
Speaker 1: This girl had twelve twelve, had her hands bound.

44
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,760
Speaker 2: Behind her, She was forced under a bridge by two guys.

45
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 2: She doesn't know adults, and she was stripped. She was

46
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 2: stripped from the waist down. Her pants were off. I

47
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,640
Speaker 2: mean to hear aug say it unclothed.

48
00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 1: What.

49
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, these details were absolutely heartbreaking hearing in court. And

50
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 7: you know, at this point they were still kind of

51
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 7: skirting around the information on if she was sexually assaulted

52
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 7: or not. They're saying that they're still waiting on test

53
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 7: results to come back to prove that she was in

54
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 7: fact sexually assaulted. But those details absolutely heartbreaking to hear

55
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 7: in court, especially for Johnson's family, and as you can imagine,

56
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:48,640
Speaker 7: emotions were high.

57
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 1: Yesterday.

58
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 7: We heard a family member scream out at one of

59
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 7: the suspects, calling him a murderer and killer, as they

60
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 7: were just in disbelief over this tragic, in her rific

61
00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 7: crime could happen to their little girl.

62
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 2: You're hearing Corey Peel invescadity reporter KPRC two in Houston.

63
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to go to Andy Kahn, a longtime friend

64
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 2: and colleague, director of Victim Services crime Stoppers in Houston.

65
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 1: What in the world is going on?

66
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,279
Speaker 2: Hey, New York, let me see the graphic of how

67
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,000
Speaker 2: you can get the death penalty in Texas. Because I'm

68
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,720
Speaker 2: pretty sure if you commit an intentional murder, which strangulation

69
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,880
Speaker 2: death is. This is a manual strangulation by hands while

70
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:41,159
Speaker 2: and then they name a host of felonies, including kidnapping kidnapping.

71
00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,799
Speaker 1: Kidnapping does not mean.

72
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,919
Speaker 2: I bundle you in a trunk and I drive you

73
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 2: one hundred miles and hold you hostage. Kidnapping can mean

74
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 2: taking you one foot or one inch is called under

75
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:59,080
Speaker 2: the law asportation. If that child is moved even one

76
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 2: inch under the law against her will, that is a

77
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:11,039
Speaker 2: kidnap and therefore qualifies for a death penalty. Andy John,

78
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 2: what is going on in your hometown.

79
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 8: You have a lot of convoluted laws that were passed

80
00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,680
Speaker 8: years ago involving capital murder of anyone who murders a child.

81
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,599
Speaker 8: And in twenty nineteen they passed a law. Our legislators

82
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,039
Speaker 8: passed a law removing the death penalty provision from anyone

83
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,240
Speaker 8: who murdered a child from the ages of eleven to

84
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 8: fifteen unless it was done in conjunction of another offense.

85
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,680
Speaker 8: I don't think there's any ifens or butts about it.

86
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 8: She was taken against her will, more than likely sexually assaulted.

87
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 8: But let's keep in mind. This is early. I would

88
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 8: it's going to happen.

89
00:05:54,120 --> 00:06:00,599
Speaker 2: Andy, I know that your politicians and the Texas ledgislature

90
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 2: had gutted the rules for aggravating circumstances for the death

91
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,280
Speaker 2: penalty and many other jurisdictions. When a child under fourteen

92
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,880
Speaker 2: fourteen and under is murdered, that automatically qualifies for a

93
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,160
Speaker 2: jury to look at the death penalty. Whether they give

94
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 2: it or not, that's on the jury. But forget about

95
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 2: the age requirement. Your legislature, your Texas legislature change the

96
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,719
Speaker 2: rule when now the child has to be under ten

97
00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,080
Speaker 2: for it to automatically apply. That doesn't fit in this

98
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,359
Speaker 2: scenario because Jocelyn is twelve.

99
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,919
Speaker 1: However, listen to me.

100
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:47,360
Speaker 2: There is another condition under your law that your legislature

101
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 2: has managed not to gut yet. That says if the

102
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,280
Speaker 2: death occurs the murder occurs during a kidnap, that qualifies

103
00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:56,160
Speaker 2: for the death penalty.

104
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 1: So what's the problem. I don't get it.

105
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 8: I don't get it either, And my best guess is

106
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 8: this is a slow moving scenario. They want to get

107
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 8: first things done first, and then eventually they'll look at

108
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,880
Speaker 8: adding the death penalty. You know there's a reason we

109
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 8: have the death penalty in the state of Texas. We're

110
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 8: known as the death penalty capital of the world. And

111
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,760
Speaker 8: if these two defendants don't fit the criteria for the

112
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 8: death penalty, you might as well just gut it all

113
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 8: the way around.

114
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 2: Guys, we are hearing that the death penalty is not

115
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 2: being sought. And I'm not advocating pro or con right now.

116
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,040
Speaker 2: I am saying that if this case does not qualify

117
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,080
Speaker 2: for the death penalty to be at least presented to

118
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 2: a jury, who will they make the decision?

119
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 1: Not the prosecutor.

120
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 2: But it's not going to even be given as an

121
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:54,520
Speaker 2: alternative to this jury because neither defendant has confessed to

122
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 2: raping the girl. What what I've got to wait for

123
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,160
Speaker 2: them to confess. If I had to wait for every defendant,

124
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:08,880
Speaker 2: every killer, every rapist, every timlester to confess before they

125
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 2: get sentis that's never gonna happen. The Fulton County jail

126
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,680
Speaker 2: would still be full of the thousands of people I

127
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,200
Speaker 2: prosecuted because nobody is gonna confess. But this is what

128
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 2: they did say. You tell me what you think happened.

129
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 9: Listen, Johann Jose, Ronyal Martinez and Franklin Jose Panoramos are

130
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,560
Speaker 9: both charged with capital and murder. Pain Your Ramos tells

131
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 9: police he tried to convince Ronio Martinez to stop the

132
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,840
Speaker 9: attack on Joscelyn, but he refused, telling pag Ramos he

133
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,560
Speaker 9: had to finish what he started. Nungary's hands are tied

134
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,720
Speaker 9: behind her back, her feet are bound. Ronyo Martinez climbs

135
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 9: on top of Joscelyn, covers her mouth, and strangles her

136
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 9: to death. Roanyo Martinez admits to tying Joscelyn up and

137
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 9: tossing your body in the bayou, but claims he didn't

138
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 9: kill her. Paina Ramos claims he only kissed the twelve

139
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 9: year old and denies any wrongdoing.

140
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 2: Dodger Bethany Marshall. You know I'm a tea titler, but

141
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 2: this is to the bottle. Dr Bethany Marshall with me

142
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,200
Speaker 2: whre now it's Psycho Alas joining us out of Beverly

143
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 2: Hills at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, I've had

144
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 2: so many defendants and co defendants who will tell you

145
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 2: the story about what happened their version, but they leave

146
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,439
Speaker 2: out the critical moment. For instance, doctor. Bethany and I

147
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,679
Speaker 2: were robbing a bank, and I said, don't kill anybody.

148
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 2: Bethany and she went in and we both had guns,

149
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,400
Speaker 2: and I turned my head for just a moment and

150
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 2: I heard a gunshot, but I didn't see anything. And

151
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 2: when I turned back around, two bank tellers we're dead

152
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 2: and bleeding out in the floor. That one critical moment

153
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 2: somehow gets fuzzy, and here we see both defendants, one

154
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 2: claiming he quote only kissed twelve year old Jocelyn while

155
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,840
Speaker 2: her hands were tied behind her back and her pants

156
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 2: and underwear were stripped off her body, just before one

157
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 2: of them crawled on top of the girl and strangled her, saying, quote,

158
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 2: he had to finish what he started, and all the

159
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 2: other one did was kiss her. Who and the h

160
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 2: eighth double l kisses a twelve year old little girl

161
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,880
Speaker 2: tied up under a bridge with their pants.

162
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,199
Speaker 1: And underwear stripped off, he's kissing her.

163
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 10: There's so many things wrong with this narrative, and also

164
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 10: so many tell tell signs that they are lying. First

165
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,320
Speaker 10: of all, minimizing by saying I kissed her. Criminals always minimize,

166
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 10: and as you pointed out, being so vague about the

167
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,079
Speaker 10: details sometimes they throw in too many details, but most

168
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,800
Speaker 10: likely in this case, they're leaving out a lot of

169
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 10: horrific details that are going to come out as this

170
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 10: court case continues, and also minimizing the fact that she

171
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,360
Speaker 10: is a twelve year old little girl. And also the

172
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 10: language is so inaccurate. Nancy, let's take out rape, assault,

173
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,719
Speaker 10: and kidnap and let's put torture at the top of the.

174
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 1: List crime stories.

175
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:26,679
Speaker 2: With Nancy Grace, let me go to another friend and

176
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 2: longtime colleague, doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner.

177
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 1: That's not easy.

178
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,640
Speaker 2: You fight your way to get in medical school, you

179
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 2: fight your way through medical school, you do a residency.

180
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:39,200
Speaker 1: It's dog eat dog.

181
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 2: Everybody wants your spot, and he somehow climbs his way

182
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,080
Speaker 2: to the top to become the chief medical Examiner in

183
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 2: Arrant County. That's Fort Worth, that's this neck of the woods.

184
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 2: Also lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,

185
00:11:54,920 --> 00:12:01,520
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, I've prosecuted literally thousands of cases, thousands,

186
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 2: all felonies. When you are prosecuting and you didn't experience this,

187
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 2: you have to be a machine. You cannot think about

188
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 2: the details of the case, or I would crack if

189
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 2: I had to think about it. But as I'm listening

190
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 2: to doctor Bethany talk, I'm wondering, if you go through this,

191
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 2: as you perform autopsies on little girls, little children, to

192
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:33,240
Speaker 2: think about what this girl twelve years old, You know,

193
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 2: my girl, she's about that big, beautiful just like this

194
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 2: little girl to be dragged under a bridge in the

195
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,800
Speaker 2: middle of the night, don't you know? She was crying

196
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 2: and begging for them to stop what they were doing,

197
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,000
Speaker 2: to yank her pants and underwear off, to tie her,

198
00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,000
Speaker 2: bind her with her hands behind her back, and one

199
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 2: of them claims I only kissed her. What and with

200
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:13,080
Speaker 2: the marks on her back, this girl was raped. This

201
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:19,679
Speaker 2: girl was tortured. The last thing she saw was the

202
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:24,320
Speaker 2: dark of the night under a bridge where these two guys,

203
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 2: she's adult, males she had never met before, assaulting her.

204
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 2: Then probably the inability to breathe as one of them

205
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,559
Speaker 2: crawled on top of her.

206
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 1: And manually strangled the life.

207
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 2: Out of her, then leaving her semi naked, throw her

208
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 2: into the water, and video Kim catches them. Doctor Kendall

209
00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 2: Crowns just walking away. Why nothing had happened? When you

210
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 2: perform an autopsy. Do you let yourself even think about

211
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 2: these things? Or do you just become a robot and

212
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:12,840
Speaker 2: do it?

213
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,000
Speaker 11: So you can't get emotionally charged when doing your work,

214
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 11: because that's going to cause you to miss things. So

215
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 11: you go through the story the information you have at

216
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 11: the time before the autopsy begins, and then you process

217
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 11: the case and go through it and you don't get

218
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 11: emotionally wrapped up in all the particulars of how horrific

219
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,240
Speaker 11: the incident that resulted in this individual's death is, because

220
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 11: if you do, you can't do this job.

221
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 3: Lord under a bridge, a stripped naked to the waste

222
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 3: bound and then assaulted for two hours. New court documents

223
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 3: detail horrific allegations.

224
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 2: Not only do we learn what happened under that bridge

225
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 2: to little Joscelyn, we learn what happened afterward.

226
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 9: Listen to After Johnslen Nunger's body has found, Police say

227
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 9: Ramos cut off an ankle monitor he was fitted with

228
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 9: when he crossed the border illegally at El Paso on

229
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 9: May twenty eighth. The discarded ankle monitor was found days ago. Ramos,

230
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,200
Speaker 9: working in construction, asks his boss for extra cash so

231
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 9: he can skip down, but instead of getting cash, the

232
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 9: boss calls the police and Ramos is arrested straight out.

233
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 2: To Cora Lee Peel, investigative reporter or kp RC two Houston,

234
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 2: I hope what Ogg is saying. I'm just interpreting here

235
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 2: is that when the rape kit comes back and I'm

236
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 2: going to go to you, doctor Kendle Crowns about how

237
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 2: a rape kit is performed and really how long it takes.

238
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,600
Speaker 2: It doesn't take this long to get a DNA sample.

239
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't, So I'm not sure what they're waiting on.

240
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 2: Because if there's DNA from one of the defendants to

241
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 2: show that she was raped because I'd spurned from one defendant,

242
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 2: they're both going to be charged with rape because while

243
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 2: one was raping her, the other one was standing by

244
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 2: what laughing holding her down?

245
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,320
Speaker 1: Oh hgl n Oh.

246
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 2: They're both going to be charged with that and both

247
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 2: be death penalty qualified. Corley Peel again, investigative news reporter

248
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 2: kp RC two Houston, where this happened. Let me understand

249
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 2: how these two were caught. I understand we've got surveillance

250
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 2: video and the police did an incredible job of putting

251
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 2: together a montage of the let's see the seven eleven

252
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 2: the seven eleven video surveillance video. You can see as

253
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 2: the surveillance video goes on, you see her walking. The

254
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 2: little boyfriend she's calling on her cell phone reports hearing

255
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,960
Speaker 2: two adults in the back. Look at that little thing.

256
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,800
Speaker 2: She can't weigh over ninety pounds. If that these two

257
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 2: there are the animals. There they are, And I normally

258
00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 2: don't use that phrase, but what they did to this

259
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 2: little girl is like an animal out in the jungle

260
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 2: and they approach her. They approach her, apparently asking for directions.

261
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: She walks along.

262
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: With them because they apparently lived near each other, did

263
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 2: not know each other. They're walking along and the next

264
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 2: thing you know, she's under a bridge bound being raped.

265
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 1: So Corale Peel, how did they get caught?

266
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 2: The incredible surveillance montage that reveals everything I just told you.

267
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,880
Speaker 2: You see them taking her under a bridge and then

268
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 2: walking away like okay, that's done. But then in addition

269
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 2: to the montage, witnesses emerge.

270
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 1: That's right.

271
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 7: I mean, those photos were essential in this case. As

272
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 7: soon as the men saw their photos being plastered across

273
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 7: the country, all over social media and all the news,

274
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,160
Speaker 7: they got scared, so the men Martinez there, he actually

275
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:09,160
Speaker 7: shaved his beard and he apparently prosecutors found on his

276
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 7: phone that he was trying to research ways on how

277
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 7: to lead the country, how to get out. But it's

278
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,880
Speaker 7: really interesting because Franklin Pinya, he actually called his boss

279
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 7: asking for help, asking to gather some money together so

280
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 7: he could get away. He told his boss that someone

281
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 7: was killed, he was in an issue that he needed

282
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 7: to get out of.

283
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 10: The boss thought that was very suspicious.

284
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, Corley Peel again. You got me drinking

285
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 2: from the fire hydrant. You know so many facts, and

286
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 2: I'm trying to ride as quickly as i can. Could

287
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,520
Speaker 2: you back it up just a little bit and I'll

288
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 2: catch up. I wish I knew shorthand I don't. Okay,

289
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:49,719
Speaker 2: go yeah.

290
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 7: So basically, long story short, he calls nine one one,

291
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 7: the boss that the construction company calls police, and that's

292
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,400
Speaker 7: how police were ultimately able to track down both men

293
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,719
Speaker 7: at their apartment complex and take them into custody. And

294
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 7: I talked to prosecutors at that press conference and I said,

295
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,399
Speaker 7: you know, was this boss the reason why they were captured?

296
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 7: And they said, that is one of the reasons why,

297
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,439
Speaker 7: just because they have received hundreds of tips over that

298
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 7: course of that week while.

299
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 10: They were on the run.

300
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 7: But again they got scared after these photos were released

301
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,200
Speaker 7: and people were looking for them.

302
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 2: And now Coraline Peel from KPRC two is telling us

303
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 2: more that when these photos began to populate on TV,

304
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 2: people were seeing them. Their friends who knew them saw

305
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 2: the TV and they asked the boss. These two defendants

306
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 2: asked their boss. One of them asked for an advance

307
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 2: in money, said somebody had died and they needed.

308
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: To get out of the jurisdiction.

309
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 2: You know, when I see a broadcast on TV or

310
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 2: somebody calls me and gives me a tip about a murder,

311
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 2: I don't try to leave the country.

312
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: They did, what about it?

313
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 12: Those were indicative of guilt, Nancy. These guys knew what

314
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 12: they were in trouble. They knew people were going to

315
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 12: see the advertisement, the warnings on TV, and they knew

316
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,159
Speaker 12: that they had to leave the country or leave the

317
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,640
Speaker 12: state as soon as possible. They're criminals, They're animals.

318
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: That's what they do.

319
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 12: They run and they fleet.

320
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 3: Joslyn nunger Ay fought back. Prosecutors say, leaving scratches and

321
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 3: byte marks on one of her attackers, still visible at

322
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 3: the time of his arrest.

323
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: Bite marks. Let's talk about bite marks.

324
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 2: Joining me, Corley Peel, investigative reporter KPRC two Houston. Corley,

325
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 2: I want to talk about the injuries to not only

326
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: the two defendants. Do you know when we first started talking,

327
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 2: almost got sick to my stomach as you were describing everything,

328
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: because when I was talking to doctor Kendall Crowns about

329
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 2: letting your mind go to where this was that night

330
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 2: and what the little girl lived through, what Jocelyn lived

331
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 2: through just before her death while her mom is snoozing away,

332
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: no idea that anything's happening to her baby. But I

333
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,719
Speaker 2: now want to talk about the evidence and get my

334
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 2: mind back in the middle of the.

335
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: Road and out of the weeds.

336
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 2: Tell me about the injuries on her and the two defendants.

337
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, heartbreaking information that we received in court this week.

338
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 7: Apparently from what we heard from prosecutors that Jostin was

339
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 7: found with cuts on her body and scratches as well

340
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 7: as she was found bound and tied underneath that bridge.

341
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 7: And we also learned that Martinez Renjell he was also

342
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 7: found with bite marks, and scratches on him so when

343
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 7: he was arrested. So very heart wrenching information to hear

344
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 7: from prosecutors as they release that evidence, and especially hard

345
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 7: for her family to hear because she's only twelve years old.

346
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 7: No family should have to hear that a little girl

347
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 7: had to endure that type of horrific murder. I don't

348
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 7: want us to gloss over the truth. And here's the truth.

349
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: Two illegal Venezuelan migrants are now accused. I'm murdering our

350
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: twelve year old little Houston girl, Andy Kahn. Listen up,

351
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: you're next under a bridge. According to prosecutors, they strip

352
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 2: her naked, that's from the waist down, assaulted her for

353
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 2: two hours.

354
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 1: Two hours.

355
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: This twelve year old girl was assaulted, assaulted, what does

356
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: that mean?

357
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: Raped? That's what that means.

358
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: And one of them has the audacity to tell me

359
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 2: I just kissed her. You kiss a twelve year old

360
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 2: little girl, tied up her bridge half naked, soulded her

361
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: for two hours, allegedly binding her not only by her

362
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: hands behind her back during the rape, her feet were

363
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 2: also bound, as doctor Bethny Marshall accurately pointed out, and

364
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: her back was covered in cuts.

365
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: What does that tell you, Andy Kahan? Her back was

366
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: covered in cuts.

367
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 8: Nancy, this is a real life Texas chainsaw massacre. What

368
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 8: happened to Joscelyn? The only way I can describe what

369
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 8: happened to her when you ask people, well, what happened exactly,

370
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 8: is if you watch a National Geographic show and you

371
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 8: see what lions do to Gazelle's and that's what these

372
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 8: two lions dier through this poorest child right here. It

373
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 8: is an absolute bloodbath. What happened to her. I've spoken

374
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 8: with Joscelyn's family, I've met them, I've talked with them.

375
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 8: I can't imagine the pain that they're going through. Yet,

376
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 8: at the same time, we're also going to make Joscelyn

377
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 8: Nungary a catalyst for change. I know there's a lot

378
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 8: going on right now, whether they're going to be seeking.

379
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: The death Nady con too soon, too soon to talk

380
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: about how this is all somehow going to end up

381
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 2: being good and her rape and murder is going to

382
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: be a catalyst for change.

383
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: You know, I don't normally say this to you, Indicaba,

384
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: screw that.

385
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear how somehow we're going to

386
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: turn this lemon into lemonade, catalyst for change. B ask

387
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: con what are you saying? And I asked you what

388
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: these injuries meant? And you skirted it. You did not

389
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: answer the question. The question was what do.

390
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: These injuries on her back mean? Do I have to

391
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: spell it out for you.

392
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 8: It means that she was tortured. She was tortured, she

393
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 8: was raped, she was strangled, she was kidnapped, and by God,

394
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 8: the death penalty is going to be sought in this case.

395
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 8: That is no ifans or buts from my perspective.

396
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall. You, as I have worked with so

397
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: many children and adults that were raped or sodomized as children,

398
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 2: and what the adults tell me is that the worst

399
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: thing about it was the feeling of helplessness, powerlessness.

400
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: How some of them.

401
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 2: Actually, I didn't know about this phenomenon until an adult

402
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: female victim of Chamala's station told me about it.

403
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: That she would actually disembody and she.

404
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: Could look down at her body as her father was

405
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: raping her, and her mother sided with the father and

406
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: pretenda she didn't know anything about it went on for years. Okay,

407
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: you have to go with me down this dark tunnel,

408
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 2: because I'm going to tell you what happened. This little girl,

409
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 2: while bound with her hands behind her and stripped, was

410
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 2: forced down on the ground and was raped for two hours.

411
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 2: Then one of the finets climbed on top of her

412
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: and manually strangled her. And then they throw her body

413
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: likely face down into a by you. That's what happened

414
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: to this girl. She should be practicing her cello, what

415
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: instruments she was playing. She should be enjoying summer, jumping

416
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: in the apartment complex pool, playing with her friends, going

417
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 2: to get ice cream, talking to her little BF boyfriend

418
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: off the phone. But that's what happened to her. That

419
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: is what those injuries tell me. And there's no way

420
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: around it. I don't care how much everybody on this

421
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: panel wants to skirt away from it. That is what happened.

422
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: She was raped in the dirt on the ground under

423
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: a bridge by two adult males while her hands were

424
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: tied behind her back.

425
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: That's what happened, Nancy.

426
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 10: If I could add to that, there was a moment

427
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 10: before all this happened, when these guys asked her for

428
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 10: directions where she felt useful. She wanted to help them,

429
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 10: and then for anyone who's listening, who's ever been in

430
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 10: an accident, and all of a sudden, you know, things

431
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 10: have turned. There was that dawning of realization when they

432
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 10: take her under the bridge, that something really, really bad

433
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 10: is going to happen. They bind her hands and her legs,

434
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 10: and at that point she may not even know what

435
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 10: is about to befall her, but on some levels she

436
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 10: knows she's going to die. They take their pants off.

437
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 10: We're talking about them taking her pants off. Let's think

438
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 10: about two grown men taking their clothing off in front

439
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 10: of a little girl. We don't even know she's ever

440
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 10: seen the naked man before, and all those cuts along

441
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 10: her back. They threw her on the ground. This was

442
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 10: under a bridge. I picture. You know, empty aluminum cans, glass,

443
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 10: you know all the debris we see under kid under bridges.

444
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 10: They threw her on that debris. And as they were

445
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 10: raping her and thrusting themselves into her again and again,

446
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 10: her back was scraping along the ground. They didn't rape

447
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 10: her once twice. These men raped her multiple times, each

448
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 10: one looking on as the other one did it. That

449
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 10: is animalistic behavior. Nancy, do think women would do that

450
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 10: to a little boy? No, It's not just the rape,

451
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 10: it's the cruelty. It's the total lack of regard for

452
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 10: what was happening to her body and Nancy. These guys

453
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 10: I think were drunk and substance abusing sons does not

454
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 10: exonerate them, but it takes it a whole level worse

455
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 10: where they are just treating her like a sack of

456
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 10: potatoes and the control.

457
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: Room is reminding me in my ear.

458
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: These two illegal immigrants charged with the murder of a

459
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: twelve year old oldle girl under the eyes of Lady

460
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: Justice are innocent until proven guilty.

461
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace two suspects.

462
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: One claims he only kissed Joscelyn and tried to stop

463
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 3: the attack as his friend climbed on top of the

464
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: little girl strangling her.

465
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: Tried to stop the attack. How doesn't make any sense everything?

466
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: Why am I trying to apply logic to an illogical situation?

467
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: Why am I trying to make sense about what these

468
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: two were saying? Because it's all lies, all lies. DNA

469
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: doesn't lie, circumstantial evidence does lie. This little girl did

470
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 2: not bind herself at the hands and feet, scratch her

471
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: back up on the ground, take off her own pants

472
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: and underwear and fling herself into the water. Okay, they

473
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: did it. And anything they say is a lie. It's

474
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: like the devil. Whatever he says, it's a lie. It

475
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It's a lie. They're lying.

476
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: Now we know in the.

477
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: Last hours the family has been subjected to hearing the

478
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: facts the way we've been talking about them.

479
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: No mother wants to hear this. I don't even want

480
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: to hear.

481
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: It about another child, much less this mom hearing it

482
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: about her own child. And there was an explosion in

483
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: the courtroom, not the first time.

484
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: Listen, oldest sister.

485
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: Of Aaron Lindsey, Jim, whatever your name is, Satan, I'm mad.

486
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 6: That's how you act when you are out of control.

487
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 6: I don't want to ever see my mother have to

488
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 6: go through this point again. Never, Jeffrey, I.

489
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: Only wish she had gotten her hands around his neck.

490
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: And of course we all know about our friend Mark Class.

491
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: His daughter Polly was kidnapped during a little spend the

492
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: night party at her place in the middle of the night.

493
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: I don't even say the defendant's name out loud.

494
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: He took Polly, he raped her, he assaulted her, and

495
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: he murdered her and in court class, there's Polly Class

496
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: lunges for the killer and tries to strangle him right there.

497
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 2: In another case, a martial arts expert molested a little

498
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: boy and when he was extradited back to Louisiana and

499
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: he came off the plane, the dad shot him in

500
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: the head.

501
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: Later acquitted.

502
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: But why are people suggesting that the family of Joscelyn

503
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: misbehaved in the courtroom.

504
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: They didn't misbehave.

505
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: The two defendants misbehaved according to police, to any con

506
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: director of victim services, they're in Houston.

507
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: Do you blame them?

508
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 8: No, absolutely not. I mean I've been in the courtrooms

509
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 8: where families have gotten up and have yelled. I've been

510
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 8: in a courtroom where a bailiff whispered to me and said,

511
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 8: I'll left the father of the young girl that was murdered.

512
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 8: If he goes over the rail, I'll give him a

513
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 8: few minutes before I pull him off. No, nobody blames

514
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 8: them for anything that happened. I don't blame them for

515
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 8: unleashing as well. I would probably do the same. This

516
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 8: is the worst possible scenario you can imagine. This family

517
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 8: is undergoing right now. Joscelyn is everybody's daughter. She is

518
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 8: everybody's sister, She is everybody's niece. This is not just

519
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 8: a Houston issue, It's not just a Texas issue. She

520
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 8: has become the national issue for what happens when you murder, rape,

521
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 8: and strangle and kidnap a twelve year old little girl.

522
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: You know Andy again, I consider your friend. We've worked

523
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: together for many, many years. But does your mouth ever

524
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: get tired of just saying the same thing?

525
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: Blah Dad.

526
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: She's supposed girl for filling the blank. She's a countless

527
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: for change. She represents every girl. Really that one of

528
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: these people keep coming into our country and committing.

529
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: Murders, and not just them other perps.

530
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 2: You see it over and over, repeat offenders praying on victims, younger,

531
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 2: less cunning, less powerful than they are, walk free, and

532
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: then they do it again. A catalyst for change. This

533
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: is one in a string of many. Do I have

534
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: to name them off? There's Lake and Riley, there's Molly Tibbis,

535
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 2: there's Rachel mourn. He goes on and on for Pete's sake. Man,

536
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: second verse, same as the first.

537
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 8: That's why I'm here to do that, to make sure

538
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 8: that what happened with her at least we can make

539
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 8: the attempt that it doesn't happen to somebody else. That's

540
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 8: the least we can do in her honor and in

541
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 8: her memory. And that's what we're going to do.

542
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: You know what, Andy Conn, You're right. I'm sorry.

543
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: You just have to be the target of my anger

544
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: and frustration about what happened to this girl. Doctor Kendall Crowns,

545
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: how are we going to prove she was raped? How

546
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: does it happen? And that medical examiner darnwell being dotting

547
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: his eyes and crossing his t's as he or she

548
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: performs rape kit.

549
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 11: So proving a sexual assault, you can look for damage

550
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 11: to the vagina, the anus. Usually it's tearing, contusions or bruises,

551
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 11: abrasions or scratches from the forceful penetration. And then you

552
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 11: can also do a sexual assault kit, also known as

553
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 11: a rape kit, where you collect evidence pubic hairs from

554
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 11: the individual, also any hairs that.

555
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 8: Are on the body.

556
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 11: You do DNA swabs of the body as well as

557
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 11: DNA swabs of the vagina, anis, and mouth, and then

558
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 11: those can be tested for DNA of the possible perpetrator.

559
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 11: It can take several weeks for all that to come back.

560
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: Though, Doctor Kittel crowns, You and I both know that

561
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: it doesn't take several weeks to get DNA.

562
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: Why are you saying that.

563
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 11: Well, it does take several weeks for the testing to

564
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 11: get done. You can't just expect it to happen overnight.

565
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: There's not an immediate DNA test because I've had them

566
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: done at the crime lab.

567
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 11: I mean rapid DNA tests are using.

568
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: Is a quick test result?

569
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 11: Well, you can get quick test results, correct, but you

570
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 11: can't necessarily pinpoint it to the specific individual without doing

571
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 11: all the specific testing.

572
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 2: Well, okay, then your Texas crime lab must work differently

573
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: than the one that I use.

574
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: Because we can get quick test results.

575
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: I know they're not as reliable as they wants to

576
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 2: take two weeks, but it's enough for death penalty, indictment,

577
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: and one more thing very quickly. Doctor Kendall crowns about

578
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: the bite marks in her condition. Tied up, hands and

579
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 2: feet on her back, she managed to bite a defendant.

580
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: Is there a chance we could get his DNA out

581
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: of her mouth?

582
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 8: Yes, that is a possibility.

583
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 11: If she bit hard enough and pulled skin cells off,

584
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 11: it's possible that they could get it from her mouth.

585
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: To Corley p Old kp RC two. What is happening

586
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: right now?

587
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 7: Well, right now both men are in jail with ten

588
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 7: million dollar bonds each. This investigation is ongoing. Prosecutors say

589
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 7: that they're still waiting on test results to prove if

590
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 7: Joson Ungerray was sexually assaulted. So we're still waiting to

591
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 7: see if those charges will be upgraded or if they

592
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 7: will face the death penalty because of right now, based

593
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 7: on the legislature, they're not death penalty eligible, So still

594
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 7: a lot more to uncover in this case for sure.

595
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: Michael Levana is the bottom line. They're kicking back having

596
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: three hots and a cot.

597
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 12: The investigators are at the mercy of the legal system.

598
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 12: They have to abide by what the district attorney guidance

599
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 12: that they give them. They honestly do probably want a

600
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 12: fist sexual assault, but they have to wait for the results.

601
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 12: They're at the mercy of the crime left.

602
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, so I guess she had her pants pulled

603
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: off and had scratches on her back and one admits

604
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: that he was kissing her.

605
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: I guess that's not enough for them yet, But I'm telling.

606
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: You, well, you can say that and I've tried plenty

607
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 2: of cases with circumstantial evidence and without DNA before the

608
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 2: advent of DNA and all that was a blood type.

609
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so it can be done.

610
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 12: It's going to be a circumstantial case because there the

611
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 12: one wants to admit, they minimize their actions.

612
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

613
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: To hear Michael Levanas tell it, I've got to wait

614
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: on a confession, and that'll be a cold day in

615
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,720
Speaker 2: HL before these two confess.

616
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 1: Andy con, what and I just am I the one upside.

617
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 8: Down here before a Texas jury. I could probably step

618
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 8: outside when they get the case, go to the restroom,

619
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 8: come back, and they'll pronounce them guilty and sentence in

620
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 8: the death. There is no way your jury is not

621
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 8: going to sentence these two to death.

622
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 2: If it is sought. And you know what else breaks

623
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: my heart? Andy con that the mom God be with her.

624
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 2: Keeps saying thank you everybody for all your support. I'm

625
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 2: so grateful. She shouldn't even be in this position. And

626
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: I heard Ogg's a pretty good prosecutor state that the

627
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: prosecutors and law enforcement are under so much pressure because

628
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 2: there is just a wave, wave after wave after wave

629
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: of criminals from other countries coming into our country, and

630
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 2: right there is.

631
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: One of the hubs where they come in.

632
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: So I've got to contend with not only our US,

633
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: our American citizens performing depraved acts on children.

634
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: Now I've got them coming over to do it.

635
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 8: I see last year, last August, I worked with a

636
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 8: family who was eleven year old girl was raped and

637
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 8: murdered by an undocumented immigrant who is now facing the

638
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 8: death penalty. That was last August. So I sadly I've

639
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,479
Speaker 8: worked with families that are facing this situation, and yeah,

640
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 8: it's a broken system.

641
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: All the help if you know or think you know

642
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: anything about this case that can help the state build

643
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: the case. Dial seven one three three zero eight thirty

644
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: six hundred repeat seven one three three zero eight thirty

645
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: six hundred. I want to thank all of our guests

646
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: as our prayers go out to this little girl, Jocelyn

647
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 2: and her family, her mother and her little brother.

648
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: We wait as justice I'm false. Good bye friend,