Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Hi, How are It is so good? I'm great.
Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you. You too. Are you
Speaker 1: in Toronto? I am Yeah, I'm in I'm in Canada.
Speaker 1: I've been up here for most of the pandemic. Well,
Speaker 1: we're so happy to have you because we obviously couldn't
Speaker 1: complete a season one reward of shadow Hunters without talking
Speaker 1: to the one and only Dot. We that's so sweet.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here absolutely. So. You know, you
Speaker 1: were so instrumental. I remember during the pilot you and
Speaker 1: I spent so much time together and trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what this world is. You were figuring out Warlocks,
Speaker 1: I was figuring out shadow Hunters. We were figuring out
Speaker 1: this family dynamic and history and relationship, and it felt
Speaker 1: as though we built a little family between you and
Speaker 1: me and Maxim. And getting to sort of watch Dot
Speaker 1: continue to come back over the years was so wonderful,
Speaker 1: despite her many ill fated incidents. So tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about how you got involved in shadow Hunters,
Speaker 1: what the audition process was like, your first experiences with
Speaker 1: the material. Were you aware of this story before this
Speaker 1: audition came your way? Yeah? I mean no, I was
Speaker 1: not aware of Uh, of the material before it came
Speaker 1: my way. I think how it all came about. I
Speaker 1: remember I had a general at free form Um and
Speaker 1: then the audition came in and it was one of
Speaker 1: those really lovely auditions where it was just it was
Speaker 1: it was one audition and then I just got the part,
Speaker 1: which literally never as you know, that never happens. Usually
Speaker 1: you have to really go through the ringer and they
Speaker 1: make you really work for it. So yeah, it was
Speaker 1: it was really deceptively easy. I mean, you know, you
Speaker 1: do all these other auditions and you never know what's
Speaker 1: going to pan out, and this one I really I
Speaker 1: remember really connecting with it. I thought it was I
Speaker 1: really liked dot immediately um as soon as I had
Speaker 1: read it, So maybe it had just it kind of
Speaker 1: came of. There are times I just watched because it's
Speaker 1: so difficult with what we do to not sound arrogant
Speaker 1: at times, like to a real sort of balance that
Speaker 1: we played. Like you want to talk about what I do,
Speaker 1: and I'm proud of what I do, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to come across as like,
Speaker 1: look at me, I'm doing this acting thing, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I don't ever want to be
Speaker 1: that guy. But I saw this interview with with John
Speaker 1: C McGinley recently, who played Dr Cox in Scrubs, and
Speaker 1: he was talking about playing Dr Cox in Scrubs and
Speaker 1: he said when he went into the audition, there were
Speaker 1: a bunch of other guys there and they were all
Speaker 1: sort of studying their lines and like you could see
Speaker 1: them trying to get into character. And he was just
Speaker 1: sat with his arm on the couch and he was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I got this one. I'm getting this role for sure.
Speaker 1: Like if this is my competition here, if these are
Speaker 1: the other guys I'm testing with, I got this one.
Speaker 1: And he did because that's who the character was, and
Speaker 1: he knew he knew that this was the role that
Speaker 1: was right for him in this in this world, he
Speaker 1: knew that he could do this. And I think there's
Speaker 1: a world in which that is really important. I think
Speaker 1: it's actually a really important thing to go in. Like
Speaker 1: you're saying, you know, you connected with Dart and it
Speaker 1: was it was a done deal. You know, everyone else
Speaker 1: saw that connection obviously. I think sometimes it's also just
Speaker 1: about trusting that connection. I think you know, when you're
Speaker 1: acting sometimes it's you know it is it is hard
Speaker 1: to not overthink things. Sometimes I think, you know, we
Speaker 1: wanted so badly that you can get into that space
Speaker 1: of I don't want to say, like trying too hard,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it is that, And sometimes it is your
Speaker 1: best auditions or your best take is really those ones
Speaker 1: where you just kind of let it go and you know,
Speaker 1: you obviously you have to do the work, you put
Speaker 1: everything in, and then you at one point do you
Speaker 1: have to just sort of throw it away? Or at
Speaker 1: least that that's how I feel, for I agree with yeah,
Speaker 1: or if nothing else is like an exercise in in
Speaker 1: in exploration, like you know, throwing that one. Some of
Speaker 1: some of my favorite directors I've worked with, in fact,
Speaker 1: all of my favorite directors I've worked with have always said,
Speaker 1: do one for you. We've got a little more time,
Speaker 1: do one for you. Just do whatever you want, you know,
Speaker 1: forget the direction, forget the lines to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: just do just do one. You know, we've got a
Speaker 1: little more time, the cameras are rolling, Just do one
Speaker 1: for you. And nine times out of ten there's something,
Speaker 1: even if it's not right or good, there's something interesting
Speaker 1: that comes out of that way, like well, it's interesting.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that Jace dot Clary could behave that way,
Speaker 1: but that's how we interacted and that's what came out.
Speaker 1: And that's an interesting like level of their psyche that
Speaker 1: I've just sort of discovered through that process, which is
Speaker 1: really cool. Well, that's just it. It's trusting the work
Speaker 1: that you've done and then allowing yourself the freedom to
Speaker 1: just exist in that, in whatever person you've created or
Speaker 1: warlock you've created, and and trust everyone else around you
Speaker 1: that you know, we're creating this together and let it
Speaker 1: kind of fly and be free. And that's there's a
Speaker 1: a magic to it. We keep talking about magic. There's
Speaker 1: no better word for it, but that's kind of all
Speaker 1: we have. Yeah, I no, I mean I agree a p.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes even when I talk about acting with people,
Speaker 1: I do sometimes feel that when it's good, like you know,
Speaker 1: when you have that connection there really is it's akin
Speaker 1: to magic, absolutely, because sometimes it's strangers, it's people that
Speaker 1: you've never really met before. I haven't really had the
Speaker 1: time to gell and you can have this magical connection
Speaker 1: once you're able to just like let yourself go, let
Speaker 1: let it, let it flow. It is. Yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: I had that with I did. I did just a
Speaker 1: shadow and as I did a show called Penny Dreadful,
Speaker 1: and I played a very interesting character and that interesting
Speaker 1: he was a Nazi. Not interesting, he was a horrible guy. Um,
Speaker 1: but he had this weirdly sort of subverted, kind of
Speaker 1: beautiful relationship with this councilman who's played by Michael Graddis,
Speaker 1: And we remember reaching out to him before we started
Speaker 1: and like, obviously we've got to do some pretty heavy
Speaker 1: stuff in this, like let's just go and grab a
Speaker 1: coffee or whatever, um and just have a chat and
Speaker 1: get to know each other a little more so you
Speaker 1: know where our boundaries are or whatever. And it was
Speaker 1: I remember in that moment being like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love this guy. Like I'm going to learn a
Speaker 1: huge amount from him in that relationship. Already started to
Speaker 1: gell and we haven't started playing the characters yet, like
Speaker 1: this one, and it is it feels like magic. I
Speaker 1: remember going home talking so I think my girlfriend at
Speaker 1: the time, and she was like, how did it go?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm gonna have the best time.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I'm so excited to start this because
Speaker 1: it was just this really cool, like yeah, really cool thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is it's so nice when that happened. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: it started with the three of you, right like our
Speaker 1: show kind of started with the three of you, well
Speaker 1: to some extent, I mean, but you, you and Emerald
Speaker 1: and Matt. There was your world at the institute that
Speaker 1: you guys were building, and then there was our world
Speaker 1: in you know, the sort of what we thought was
Speaker 1: the mundane world with Simon and Luke and you and
Speaker 1: Jocelyn and and Clary and all of these folks who
Speaker 1: had these there were these two little families and suddenly
Speaker 1: they crashed into each other and everything exploded. But it
Speaker 1: was really interesting having those sort of scenes of normalcy
Speaker 1: that were some of the first scenes we shot of
Speaker 1: just us in the antique store having a little chat
Speaker 1: about Clary's birthday or you know, these things where it's
Speaker 1: it's so mundane for lack of a better word, but
Speaker 1: it's so instrumental in in establishing and building the world. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I know, I loved shooting that scene with you. Well,
Speaker 1: so why don't we talk about that, like we can
Speaker 1: literally with you, which is kind of amazing. We can
Speaker 1: literally start at the beginning, we talked about your passing process,
Speaker 1: which is irritating, like she was just so perfect she
Speaker 1: got it right away, and we're like, oh great, yeah
Speaker 1: months it took us, but that's fine. It just now
Speaker 1: never doesn't hurt to hear that someone was just so fantastic.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, the roles are yours. You go for it.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. Of course, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We couldn't
Speaker 1: have wish for anyone better. But what tell us, tell
Speaker 1: us what you're what? Day one was? Tell us what
Speaker 1: walking onto the set for the first time was. Tell
Speaker 1: us what putting on dots clothes and creating that look was.
Speaker 1: Tell us, Like, because you did you you know, you
Speaker 1: really started the show, like from the get go. I
Speaker 1: mean my first fitting was when I started to get
Speaker 1: a taste for what this was going to be, because
Speaker 1: they were the best clothes that I've ever, I want
Speaker 1: to say, to this day, have had on set. Like
Speaker 1: it was like it was designer, I mean, and now
Speaker 1: that we know more about the Warlocks, like they are
Speaker 1: they are you know, their fashion, and it was I
Speaker 1: remember feeling just so fabulous, Like I can't remember what
Speaker 1: brand it was, but the red dress that was you know,
Speaker 1: tech fiber, and it was one of those experiences where
Speaker 1: you know, you do hear actors talk about this that
Speaker 1: you put on the costume and you really start to
Speaker 1: embody what it was. And I was like, okay, this
Speaker 1: is the world we're in, Like this is a bit
Speaker 1: it is mundane, but it was elevated and I could
Speaker 1: feel that I was part of this other world. And
Speaker 1: then it was just you know, that plane duality with
Speaker 1: you because you can't you didn't know what was about
Speaker 1: to happen to you as the character, even though I knew.
Speaker 1: So it was Yeah, it was. It was a really
Speaker 1: it was really nice scene. I think that was the
Speaker 1: a scene in that antique shop. I think, so the
Speaker 1: first scene we ever shot on the show. I think
Speaker 1: it might have been. It was very early, and it
Speaker 1: was because none the studios were ready, That's what I
Speaker 1: remember to A whole bunch of stuff hadn't been built,
Speaker 1: so we were shooting on location and that place is
Speaker 1: actually now destroyed, like I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: last things. Yeah, it's like a condo now. And I
Speaker 1: remember in the attic they were all those weird records
Speaker 1: like it was it was such a wild building. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that, yeah, and then stepping on to that set.
Speaker 1: I mean, I also I love filming on location, so
Speaker 1: that that was a real treat and yeah, yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: it was fun. And then doing those stunts and destroying everything.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about this too. That's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite characters because first of all, we talked about
Speaker 1: like the immortals and how difficult it must be to
Speaker 1: embody an immortal who's been through so many relationships and whatever.
Speaker 1: And later on we discover your relationship with Magnus and
Speaker 1: you know, all of this stuff that's gone through the
Speaker 1: course of your life, but you were you, like Dot
Speaker 1: was immortal, not for lack of trying. Like everyone tried
Speaker 1: to kill you at some point, like you did constantly
Speaker 1: getting like throwing through windows and stabbed and like all this,
Speaker 1: and then added out for Dot. Dot was back, like
Speaker 1: she's the immortal of all immortals. It was crazy as
Speaker 1: a theory that Dot's like the most powerful warlock of
Speaker 1: them all because you just can't you can't get rid
Speaker 1: of her, and that's why everyone's trying to kill her
Speaker 1: because she's just too powerful. I know. Well it's really wild,
Speaker 1: you know, And going back to the audition, when I
Speaker 1: originally an audition for it, I thought I was in
Speaker 1: just I think it was maybe one episode, maybe two,
Speaker 1: And so maybe that's also why they just cast me
Speaker 1: really quickly, because they were like, whatever, you know, day
Speaker 1: player over here. But you know what, that's even cooler
Speaker 1: because even if that was the case, you convinced them
Speaker 1: on set. Your performance was such that you convinced them
Speaker 1: on set to like ship, no, we're going to try
Speaker 1: and kill her, and then to keep bringing her ass
Speaker 1: back a bunch of times. It's gonna be all. They
Speaker 1: fell in love with you. It was very It was
Speaker 1: very nice to be asked back. I was. I remember
Speaker 1: being very shocked because I mean I knew that I
Speaker 1: was going to die, So yeah, when I got brought back,
Speaker 1: I was obviously so excited. And I even remember so
Speaker 1: many of of your episodes. We we always had a
Speaker 1: moment when we would look at each other and go,
Speaker 1: is this your last episode? I don't know, do I
Speaker 1: say goodbye to you? Do we do the thing where
Speaker 1: we say series wrap on? Or are you coming back?
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly. I know who knows, who knows? Yeah,
Speaker 1: she is very immortal. I know, yes, so many exactly
Speaker 1: that's because it was the pilot, right right, where Doc
Speaker 1: gets thrown out of the window, but then she comes back,
Speaker 1: but it was not really her comes back as the
Speaker 1: demon and then back again. Correct, Yeah, and then we
Speaker 1: see you in season two as well, right, yeah, come
Speaker 1: back in season two? Yeah? Yeah, amazing because yeah again
Speaker 1: I think am I lying when? Because you ended up
Speaker 1: in Chernobyl with Valentine and he's a stabby stabby you know,
Speaker 1: Psycho through the window thing, and that wasn't that the
Speaker 1: last time we saw you in season one? And then
Speaker 1: you came back in season two? Or did you come
Speaker 1: back again in season one? I think I may have
Speaker 1: come back again in season one, but I was I
Speaker 1: had all that the crazy makeup, and I was drained
Speaker 1: of life and it was like all tattooed. I remember
Speaker 1: being in the makeup trip that it was wild because
Speaker 1: it was it was so much because it was like
Speaker 1: the whole phase of the whole body. And then I
Speaker 1: came back and there was with the with the little girl,
Speaker 1: and but then eventually I got better, Our Dot got better,
Speaker 1: and then and then I come back and then, h
Speaker 1: we should clarify Dot got better. This wasn't like an
Speaker 1: affliction that Vanessa had that she turned up and just
Speaker 1: had all this ship like growing all over and they're like,
Speaker 1: I guess we got to write it in because you've
Speaker 1: got this thing, was saying, very talented makeup. Can you imagine?
Speaker 1: I feel that good of an actor. You can just say, hey,
Speaker 1: we need these like these like blue veins going through
Speaker 1: your facing, Like listen, it's not on my CV for nothing.
Speaker 1: Here we go and yeah, it done. Problem guys. I mean,
Speaker 1: dot Dot had many talents though, aside from veins and
Speaker 1: healing and coming back, she was our introduction to the
Speaker 1: tarot cards, which eventually led us to the Mortal Cup.
Speaker 1: So what do you do You have any tarot experience
Speaker 1: yourself or is this did you have to learn for
Speaker 1: the show? I don't. Yeah, I mean I'd always dabbled.
Speaker 1: I have a couple of friends who are really good
Speaker 1: at tarot, so and I love getting my card spread.
Speaker 1: If I'm being totally honest, I find it really exciting.
Speaker 1: And sometimes once in a while, you know, I'll pull
Speaker 1: if I'm feeling the need for inspiration, I will pull
Speaker 1: a card. But no, I did have to learn what
Speaker 1: it was and how to do it, and and yeah,
Speaker 1: now out. I love it pretty easy to do, especially
Speaker 1: when you you know, it becomes so instrumental to something
Speaker 1: that you do. It's it's that's something I do love
Speaker 1: about our industry as we get to learn little bits
Speaker 1: of so many different skills and hobbies and aspects of
Speaker 1: life that some of them kind of stickally. Oh absolutely
Speaker 1: even something when you get to learn about these moments,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's like your redescript And like I I got
Speaker 1: to be in uh and that GEO show last year
Speaker 1: or I guess just under called called the Hot Zone
Speaker 1: and it was all about the anthrax attacks at Post
Speaker 1: nine eleven, which as I'm Canadian, so I didn't you know,
Speaker 1: obviously I knew about nine eleven, but you know, I
Speaker 1: think like nine eleven was so that was the big
Speaker 1: news story in Canada and these anthrax attacks that I
Speaker 1: had never heard about, so did a ton of research
Speaker 1: on it. And it's just it's such a it was
Speaker 1: a wild moment in American history, um that I had
Speaker 1: no idea about. There's so much. There's so much in
Speaker 1: script that I think it's fascinating. Like I remember reading
Speaker 1: this was really interesting reading my first Elvis script and
Speaker 1: it wasn't for the Basilman one. Um, it was for
Speaker 1: one previous to that, which I think and ended up
Speaker 1: not getting made, which is a shame. Elvis was blocked
Speaker 1: and he used to dye his hair because he wanted
Speaker 1: to look like his favorite movie stars. That crazy, and
Speaker 1: I was like, that's crazy. No idea, absolutely no idea,
Speaker 1: And then I googled it and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure enough. There it is, like can you do this
Speaker 1: research about these people like we got I got very
Speaker 1: deep into uh not manson Dharma. They're doing show about
Speaker 1: Dharma and I was in the running for that for
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I really did some research, you know,
Speaker 1: and when you on your way to playing someone who existed,
Speaker 1: they did everything a certain way, like there isn't really
Speaker 1: that much creative freedom there. Like they walked a certain way,
Speaker 1: they talked a certain way, they spent to cigarette a
Speaker 1: certain way, they their food a certain way. So I,
Speaker 1: you know, went really deep into it. And some of
Speaker 1: the things that you were in the script, you're like,
Speaker 1: there's no way, there's just no way that that happened.
Speaker 1: And you look it up and you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: ye that happened, and that's like, you know, either horrendous
Speaker 1: or like really inspired. Not in the Dama case obviously,
Speaker 1: but like sometimes you read something and you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's what an incredible story that it just seems so unlikely,
Speaker 1: but it's it sort of sticks with you, and then
Speaker 1: you get to draw on these little things in the future,
Speaker 1: whether it's a skill or something you've heard or something
Speaker 1: someone else does. And I agree with you, Cat, I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the most wonderful things about what
Speaker 1: we do is we get to sort of adds little
Speaker 1: things to our like file ef facts of human beings. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: we are very lucky. Yeah, coming back to one of
Speaker 1: my favorite things about getting to do this podcast is
Speaker 1: we get to find out We get these briefs from
Speaker 1: our amazing producers and we get to find out little
Speaker 1: bits of things about people we know and love that
Speaker 1: we had no idea. So I had no idea that
Speaker 1: you started in improv and we're a part of that
Speaker 1: world for a little bit. And again another skill that
Speaker 1: you bring into everything else, idios to tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about that. That's a world that's relatively foreign
Speaker 1: to me at least like through the traditional improv world. Um,
Speaker 1: but it's it's fascinating and I think it takes It's
Speaker 1: a very admirable one that takes a lot of skills.
Speaker 1: So talk us through that. Yeah, so I started, I
Speaker 1: guess I discos. I didn't discover improv until I was
Speaker 1: in university and there was a theater that offered free
Speaker 1: improv classes on Sunday nights and then you got to
Speaker 1: do the show afterwards. And it was probably it was
Speaker 1: a theater St. Catherine in Montreal, and my teacher was
Speaker 1: Eric Amber. He's incredible. He learned um from Keith Johnstone.
Speaker 1: So I learned a kind of improv that is very
Speaker 1: story based and grounded. It was never like ha ha improv.
Speaker 1: It was really starting with basics and trusting the hilarity
Speaker 1: would ensue through these very normal situations. And I just
Speaker 1: I loved it. I've I mean, there was a point
Speaker 1: in my life where I was probably improvising like five
Speaker 1: nights a week at different ones across the city and theaters,
Speaker 1: and I was part of an improv company called The
Speaker 1: Bitter End and we did a completely serialized sitcom, completely
Speaker 1: improvised every single week, and it started to get a
Speaker 1: really big following in Montreal, and we eventually made a
Speaker 1: web series at the dawn of the Internet. I think
Speaker 1: we were probably one of one of the first web
Speaker 1: series ever. Anyway, it was a really so cool, yeah,
Speaker 1: like formative time of my life and I I love
Speaker 1: it every time I'm about to start a new experience
Speaker 1: because the feeling before it was called Sunday Night Improv
Speaker 1: and you would get voted, you would do these scenes
Speaker 1: and you have we had a director, but you would
Speaker 1: get voted by the audience from one to five. So
Speaker 1: it was like quite humiliating in a really really great way,
Speaker 1: and like part of it was all so just like
Speaker 1: really embracing failure and really embracing you know, if you're tanking,
Speaker 1: like just let it tank and then see what happens.
Speaker 1: And then it's pretty amazing what can happen if you
Speaker 1: really are embracing the present moment. And it really helps
Speaker 1: with my acting a lot, because all you have is
Speaker 1: the other person in front of you, and so that
Speaker 1: laser focus on your partner and creating something spontaneously in
Speaker 1: the moment, and and getting a five is extremely difficult,
Speaker 1: Like I think in my entire improv career, I got
Speaker 1: like one five And when it happens, it is so
Speaker 1: it's probably one of the best feelings in the world. Um.
Speaker 1: But also when you are dying on stage it I
Speaker 1: used to call it the improv death, feeling like there's
Speaker 1: nothing worth like your stomach. You can feel the audience
Speaker 1: just so horrified for you. And but it's a great
Speaker 1: learning lesson. Like I have a daughter now and I
Speaker 1: think to myself, I like, oh, no, I'm going to
Speaker 1: put her in improv because I feel like it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that teaches you to, you know,
Speaker 1: fail a bunch of times, get up again, get up
Speaker 1: again constantly, and also not even you start to not
Speaker 1: even care about failure totally speaking of not that in
Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. When you came into Dot,
Speaker 1: When you came in to meet Dot, did you know
Speaker 1: the future she had? Did you know the past she had?
Speaker 1: Did you know that she had these relationships and ties
Speaker 1: with like we mentioned before, people like Magnus. No, they
Speaker 1: just kept throwing these new things at you. Yes, everything.
Speaker 1: I feel like I discovered things as I mean, I
Speaker 1: read I read the books, so I knew, but Dot
Speaker 1: in the books dies immediately, so there wasn't that much
Speaker 1: more to go off of. So no, absolutely, when scripts
Speaker 1: would come in when that one um, like the dance episode, Uh,
Speaker 1: that's when I learned that I had this past relationship
Speaker 1: with him. But yeah, no, I didn't know any That's cool,
Speaker 1: So well that's so that's my sort of follow up question.
Speaker 1: Then did that obviously must have impacted how you developed art,
Speaker 1: how you created this character, because you didn't have necessarily
Speaker 1: the backstory. You really just had like and forgive me
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm miss speaking, but you really just
Speaker 1: had like the character blurb that we get sent for
Speaker 1: the auditions, right, Yes, I had. I had the other
Speaker 1: novel and I had the character blurb, and I had
Speaker 1: the pilot, and then after that it was just episode
Speaker 1: to episode. I would get the scripts sometimes sometimes yeah,
Speaker 1: it's okay when you're shooting. Sometimes the day of you
Speaker 1: don't get the in between episodes either. So you're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what exactly came on. I can't which
Speaker 1: episode it was, but everyone was treating Jays like ships,
Speaker 1: so it was like it must have been a mid
Speaker 1: season two at some point when that was happening to
Speaker 1: me and she remember her coming on. She was like,
Speaker 1: why is everyone being so mean to you? And I
Speaker 1: was like Oh that's right. You haven't read what happened
Speaker 1: in this middle bit. Yeah. No, A whole bunch of
Speaker 1: ship happened. Like I'm responsible for a huge amount of
Speaker 1: death and now I'm like super in the doghouse. She's like, oh, cool, cool, cool,
Speaker 1: cool cool, Okay, great, let me put them into wear
Speaker 1: a map. Right. It's such a weird thing because it
Speaker 1: was it was a pretty secretive show. You know, they
Speaker 1: were worried about weeks. So exactly if you were only
Speaker 1: jumping in every other episode, Yeah, no, I wouldn't receive
Speaker 1: the scripts in between. Sometimes they talked to you cat
Speaker 1: and you would sort of tell me all and people
Speaker 1: people would sort of film me in. They're like, no,
Speaker 1: we saw your name coming. I was like, oh great,
Speaker 1: I'm coming. Okay, great, what's going to happen? I have
Speaker 1: no idea. It's so funny. It's funny. It's listing when
Speaker 1: new people or not when new people, when people come
Speaker 1: in who haven't been in for a while, like going
Speaker 1: through the like I can't remember. I was talking to
Speaker 1: somebody and they were like, you know, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen this person. It's like, oh, yeah, they're dead.
Speaker 1: They died we killed them off like four episodes ago.
Speaker 1: They're gone coming back. That's what about this person dead
Speaker 1: that isn't dead? Yeah? Yeah, well, and then so much
Speaker 1: happens in every episode two. It's always funny to try
Speaker 1: and fill someone in and go, you know, okay, we
Speaker 1: have five minutes while they're resetting the cameras. Let me
Speaker 1: try and tell you everything that's happened, and you know,
Speaker 1: shadow him out there. You know how much happens in
Speaker 1: an episode, and you're going, well, this happened, but then
Speaker 1: this happened because of this, and there's this other thing,
Speaker 1: and these people are trying to do this, and these
Speaker 1: people don't like each other, but we're related and we're
Speaker 1: not related anymore. But we don't know about this, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's down the rabbit hole of all of
Speaker 1: these little threads. But somehow it all came together, It
Speaker 1: all works out. It is a mini miracle when a
Speaker 1: show actually comes together, because there's so much work involved.
Speaker 1: It's it is, it's a it's a mini miracle. It's
Speaker 1: a mini miracle. Get a show off. The grant is
Speaker 1: a mini miracle. Once it's like after shooting it, and
Speaker 1: it's incredible. There's so many moving powers, and especially a
Speaker 1: show like this, like it's like eighteen different storylines going
Speaker 1: on at any one time. It's like the whole way through,
Speaker 1: like they I think that's a common theme that I
Speaker 1: found with books like if, especially fantasy books, if you
Speaker 1: try and translate those into I mean, I think we
Speaker 1: saw it. I in my opinion, I think a large
Speaker 1: reason why the movie didn't continue ongoing is because there's
Speaker 1: so much subject matter that needs to be covered, and
Speaker 1: movies don't. They really just don't have the time to
Speaker 1: do that. Whereas a TV show, we could sort of
Speaker 1: slowly introduce you know, we have our Warlock episode, and
Speaker 1: we have our Wearwolf episode, we have our Vampire episodes,
Speaker 1: and you get bit by bit of sort of the
Speaker 1: storyline coming through. And I think you're right, Like having
Speaker 1: a TV show, having a TV show in general as
Speaker 1: a miracle. Working on that TV show as an actor
Speaker 1: is a miracle, Like getting the job as a miracle.
Speaker 1: Then getting past the pilot stage is a miracle. We
Speaker 1: didn't even have that, which is amazing. And then for
Speaker 1: it to run two seasons, three seasons, three seasons plus
Speaker 1: two episodes, is it like astronomical All the things that
Speaker 1: had to come together for that to work. It's like,
Speaker 1: absolutely incredible. I have a question for you. If you
Speaker 1: could have directed any episode of shadow Hunters, which episode
Speaker 1: would you wanted to direct? Oh? Such a good question.
Speaker 1: I just came to me. It's not even in my
Speaker 1: notes or is it? Maybe it is? Did I did?
Speaker 1: I read it subconsciously earlier? And then I'm just taking
Speaker 1: all of the credit for our producer as well. I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I mean, I've really to be honest,
Speaker 1: I really loved all the directors that I got to
Speaker 1: work with on shadow Hunters, and I'm always taking like
Speaker 1: now that I'm directing more and more, and I think
Speaker 1: that that's going to be part of that's like what
Speaker 1: I want to do is I mean, I love acting.
Speaker 1: I always want to act, but definitely I love directing
Speaker 1: as well. Um, So I was always taking notes watching
Speaker 1: our directors because that's it's a shadow Hunters is hard,
Speaker 1: Like that's not a it's it's hour long. There's a
Speaker 1: ton of action. There's also the romance, there's stunts, there's
Speaker 1: special effects like that is not an easy job for
Speaker 1: any director, and like we were saying, there's so many
Speaker 1: moving parts plus all the history and bringing together a
Speaker 1: big ensemble of characters. So I don't know, I feel
Speaker 1: like I want to direct. Um, it's a great question.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Well, there's so many good ones. I mean,
Speaker 1: each one. I was just going to say, each one
Speaker 1: is so challenging in its own way that I would,
Speaker 1: honestly like I would I would be happy if I
Speaker 1: would direct any of those episodes. I feel like that
Speaker 1: would have been just such a it's such a gift
Speaker 1: like those. I don't even know. I'm not ready for that,
Speaker 1: any any of them. Maybe the dance episode, what was
Speaker 1: it called You Care? I can't remember. I don't remember.
Speaker 1: But also that's another thing. You were one of the
Speaker 1: very few people that got the unique experience of getting
Speaker 1: to be a part of one of the few musical
Speaker 1: elements of our show and be quick Because did Harry
Speaker 1: choreograph that as well? Yeah, so I thought, because I
Speaker 1: was living in l A at the time, so it
Speaker 1: was really fun. Yeah, Harry choreographed it. I got to
Speaker 1: go to his house. He's got like a dance studio, dancestairs,
Speaker 1: and so he taught me the dance. And even when
Speaker 1: they were calling they I guess they called my reps first,
Speaker 1: and they're like, so Convanesca dance, and actually, like I
Speaker 1: do have a lot of dance experience. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I haven't done it a long time, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: I can just pick it up. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: well it's gonna be choreographed by Harry. And then I
Speaker 1: got really nervous because he's you know, he's Harry. He's Harry,
Speaker 1: but you know obviously so lovely and generous and and kind.
Speaker 1: But the craziest thing I don't even know if I've
Speaker 1: told you this cat, but I I was pregnant at
Speaker 1: the time and no idea, and so I'd be working
Speaker 1: and and so Harry and I would be like working
Speaker 1: it out and I'm trying to learn the dance, and
Speaker 1: after it, I'd just been like, ah, I am so winded.
Speaker 1: And you know when you're pregnant there it actually does
Speaker 1: something to your lungs, like your lung capacity is reduced.
Speaker 1: And I just didn't know what the time, and I
Speaker 1: was like, man, I must be really out of shape.
Speaker 1: And I kept going for hikes and trying to get
Speaker 1: my stamina up. And it turns what I was totally
Speaker 1: pregnant and even we were shooting it, I still didn't
Speaker 1: realize I was pregnant. I was like, man, I am
Speaker 1: so tired, and I was chugging coffee and doing those stunts.
Speaker 1: Is crazy. I told me. She's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you were so early. The baby was like a tiny
Speaker 1: little It's not. Everything's fine and everything she's perfect and fine,
Speaker 1: but it was. It was one of those things. It's
Speaker 1: so crazy when I think about it, like I can't
Speaker 1: believe in a harness jumping off a building, getting twirled
Speaker 1: in the air, and I'm like, I'm so tired. Irobered me.
Speaker 1: I mean, doing that alone is enough to wear a personnel,
Speaker 1: but to do it that is exactly my goodness, You
Speaker 1: are a superhero, Isn't that funny? I always think so that.
Speaker 1: I think that episode also just has a special place
Speaker 1: in my heart because I think I found out shortly after.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's fine, and you're saying you
Speaker 1: want to direct this episode? On top of that, Vanessa
Speaker 1: Uh I directed my first feature this year, and I
Speaker 1: was so terrified to direct on my first day because
Speaker 1: it was something I had You know, I had directed
Speaker 1: short Form and I had directed for Ghost BFF. But
Speaker 1: you know future length, and so it's a different ballgame.
Speaker 1: And the same feeling I had before walking onto set
Speaker 1: that first day was the same feeling I likened it
Speaker 1: to about about to go on stage and having absolutely
Speaker 1: no idea what you were going to do. And I
Speaker 1: remember it felt like just jumping off and diving in.
Speaker 1: And then as soon as I got as soon as
Speaker 1: I did it, I just I felt incredible and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, Thank god I had that experience
Speaker 1: when I was younger, of feeling the fear and doing
Speaker 1: it anyway and building that resilience and that confidence, or
Speaker 1: else I don't even think I would I would have directed.
Speaker 1: I would have been too scared. Very cool, Well, speaking
Speaker 1: of that process, talk to us a little bit about
Speaker 1: ghost BFF, because that is your brain and yeah, and
Speaker 1: I remember hearing about it while you were working on
Speaker 1: Shadow Hunters, like a rains thing or shooting something for it.
Speaker 1: But then hopefully it's going to build into more and
Speaker 1: then to watch that happen, I was so proud of you.
Speaker 1: So tell us tell us everything to first explained to
Speaker 1: folks if they maybe haven't heard of ghost BF, where
Speaker 1: can they find it? Give them a little bit about it.
Speaker 1: And then let's let's hear how you brought it to life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so okay, Ghost BF is a short series about two
Speaker 1: best friends, but one is dead, uh and she died
Speaker 1: by suicide. It was it's loosely inspired by my experience
Speaker 1: with my childhood best friend when she almost died by suicide.
Speaker 1: And she is thriving now by the way, and is
Speaker 1: a pediatrician and like she's incredible and spending time with
Speaker 1: her and just noticing and this was you know, I
Speaker 1: started creating this probably eight years ago now. So at
Speaker 1: the time, I feel like the conversation around mental health
Speaker 1: was just not what it is today. Like now things
Speaker 1: are it's not as taboo as it was, um maybe
Speaker 1: ten years ago. And so I really wanted to make
Speaker 1: a comedy. I think maybe because of my background and
Speaker 1: improv I felt like, you know, suicide is a very
Speaker 1: heavy topic and depression is very heavy, um, but yet
Speaker 1: I wanted to help de taboo the stigma around it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, my background as a improviser, what was the
Speaker 1: best way that I thought I could do that? So
Speaker 1: I wanted to make a comedy about depression. Um, So
Speaker 1: that's what I did, and yeah, I got I think
Speaker 1: It was probably around the time that I got the
Speaker 1: pilot for Shadow Hunters, so a lot of things had
Speaker 1: been happening, and I eventually got the green light to
Speaker 1: to create a first season of my show. It got
Speaker 1: picked up by Elizabeth Banks is uh straight called Hoko
Speaker 1: ha ha h. It enjoyed lots of views, and I
Speaker 1: got to go to festivals around the world, and it
Speaker 1: was really it was. It was an incredible experience and
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for it. And I got to so
Speaker 1: I got to I wrote a start in it, and
Speaker 1: I also directed some episodes, and that's really where I
Speaker 1: started to get my my taste of my of of
Speaker 1: writing and directing and um and show running. And then
Speaker 1: I got I got the green light to to create
Speaker 1: the second season, and Sundance then came aboard and helped
Speaker 1: me with development for season two. And that was one
Speaker 1: of the most creatively profound experiences of my life. Where
Speaker 1: I got it was it was right before the pandemic,
Speaker 1: and so I got to just you know, be in
Speaker 1: l A, be in California, be with like a group
Speaker 1: of ten artists, get mentored by some of my favorite
Speaker 1: writers and directors. Uh was Yeah, I was really, really
Speaker 1: special and then I shot Fantastic. Yeah, I shot season
Speaker 1: two like right before the pandemic, and then I was
Speaker 1: doing post in that first locked in and we were
Speaker 1: on major lockdown, so it was it was a really
Speaker 1: crazy experience and I had my daughter was only two
Speaker 1: years old, so it was it was crazy. Um But anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can now watch ghost BFF. It's on YouTube. It's
Speaker 1: or you can just go to ghost bf dot com.
Speaker 1: Amazing and the episodes are super short there six minutes long.
Speaker 1: There's two seasons, and I'm really proud of that. Love
Speaker 1: the concept. Congratulations by the way, that's an incredible feet
Speaker 1: of Achieva. But I really like the concept of telling
Speaker 1: a heavier story through the guys of a comedy, like
Speaker 1: the guys who've done it before. Ricky Gervais is amazing
Speaker 1: at it. He does a really good job at that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. What was the show he did after
Speaker 1: was it After Life where his wife dies? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the same thing and coming back to you know, I
Speaker 1: mentioned it earlier, but Scrubs is a very similar thing
Speaker 1: as well, where it's like it's a comedy and then
Speaker 1: every now and then something happens and you're like, oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: like it's just for me. Yeah, it's just hit me.
Speaker 1: And now I'm thinking about I'm aware of it. And
Speaker 1: I think why I prefer that is because I find
Speaker 1: myself very often like these amazing movies come out about
Speaker 1: or TV shows come out about hardship, about whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you know, mental health, whatever the struggle is, and in
Speaker 1: my head, I'm like, I just I can't process this
Speaker 1: right now, Like I'm at the end of a long
Speaker 1: day and the last thing I want is to is
Speaker 1: to sort of relive like struggles through someone else's eyes.
Speaker 1: And you're almost like in a nice way, being tricked
Speaker 1: into it when it's a comedy, like we can sort
Speaker 1: of laugh our way through this, and also like divulge
Speaker 1: these feelings within myself and cathosize these feelings within myself
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh yeah, okay, cool, this was a
Speaker 1: really actually a really pleasant experience that was quite emotionally
Speaker 1: beneficial for me as well. So that's great, keep doing it.
Speaker 1: We want to see more. Yeah, well, I also find
Speaker 1: it to be more true to life. I don't know
Speaker 1: about both of you, but for me, I I tend
Speaker 1: to press this things and deal with things and cope
Speaker 1: with things through comedy and through trying to find the
Speaker 1: silver landing or making you know, somehow light of it
Speaker 1: in a way. Um. And when comedies do that, I
Speaker 1: think it hits a lot closer to home because it's
Speaker 1: it's more grounded in the imperfections of human emotions. It's
Speaker 1: that that giggle that at a funeral or that something
Speaker 1: that you can't control, but it's just your body helping
Speaker 1: you survive. Absolutely. And also, you know when I was
Speaker 1: when I was with my my dear friend, when she
Speaker 1: was really struggling, you know, the only thing she wanted
Speaker 1: to watch was the Mindy Projects. She was obsessed. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's so, and you know she was,
Speaker 1: you know, and it was very dark and it was
Speaker 1: it was a sad time, but it was like she
Speaker 1: loved the Mini Project. And I was just thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: if I was making this show for the sad girls,
Speaker 1: like I don't want to make them more sad, want
Speaker 1: everything like where's the where's the levity, Where's the where's um?
Speaker 1: The way out? Is the way out? Like the you know,
Speaker 1: how do we get out of this like hole that
Speaker 1: we found ourselves in. Yeah, I completely agree with you.
Speaker 1: And two D Taboo something I think if you're too over,
Speaker 1: you know, you're hitting it too hard. It's exactly that
Speaker 1: it becomes a bit like repellents in a way. For
Speaker 1: me at least, I do need the access points. And
Speaker 1: I think comedy is such a powerful bridge to talk
Speaker 1: about really difficult things. And I have so much admiration
Speaker 1: for for writers and comedians who are able to bridge
Speaker 1: those topics through comedy, because I think it can really
Speaker 1: help to open open people's minds. Yeah, what is it like?
Speaker 1: What is it like? Because we've discussed this a couple
Speaker 1: of times as well with other with other guests. What
Speaker 1: is it like directing yourself in something? How does that?
Speaker 1: How is that for you? Because it's just from my
Speaker 1: point of view, I'm not sure it's something I could do.
Speaker 1: Maybe later on in my career, I don't know, but
Speaker 1: as it stands right now, I don't think I could
Speaker 1: separate myself from like the scenes every time and come
Speaker 1: back and see it from like the person you know totally.
Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is that you do need
Speaker 1: a very strong team around you. I trusted my producer
Speaker 1: Katie Nolan implicitly, so I always knew so she would
Speaker 1: always be on set on the days that if I
Speaker 1: was acting and directing, um I have you get an
Speaker 1: amazing stand in, so somebody that so all of your
Speaker 1: reverses you can you can block out everything look like
Speaker 1: you can look at it through the camera with your
Speaker 1: standing have a really good idea and sometimes if they're
Speaker 1: like a really intuitive stand into, they can actually you know,
Speaker 1: they'll be watching you as the actor doing other scenes
Speaker 1: and so then they can be a bit more intuitive
Speaker 1: about maybe what your movement would be like as you're
Speaker 1: just figuring out camera stuff. Um so, and also you know,
Speaker 1: like a wonderful DP who you trust as well, who
Speaker 1: has your eye. I mean, it's challenging, it's but also
Speaker 1: the part that's not challenging, but it's nice about directing
Speaker 1: yourself versus other people is that you don't it's one
Speaker 1: last person you have to communicate with, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I already know what my note is, and I don't
Speaker 1: have to figure out a way to talk to an
Speaker 1: actor about what that note is. I can just like
Speaker 1: talk to myself and then you do it. And also
Speaker 1: you do have to sort of just block a little
Speaker 1: extra time because I do like to watch playback, so
Speaker 1: I'll make sure that I was okay in that, and
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just roll like two or three times, do
Speaker 1: it a bunch of times, and then I'll watch so
Speaker 1: it's not you know what I mean, because you don't
Speaker 1: get heavy about it. Yeah, but yeah, I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, that's incredible. I think there's a of the
Speaker 1: actors that I know, There aren't a huge amount of
Speaker 1: them that I would be like, you can do this,
Speaker 1: and I think it's amazing that you're one of those actors.
Speaker 1: Alberto is another one. Alberta would be able to for sure,
Speaker 1: Like Alberta helps me with tapes all the time, and
Speaker 1: his direction is always so incredible. So good right, Well,
Speaker 1: that's I think another thing like actors are actually you listen,
Speaker 1: this is what I always tell actors too, they are
Speaker 1: the best directors because they they have been helping all
Speaker 1: of their friends with the Brazilian self tapes over the years,
Speaker 1: so you already know how to communicate with actors in
Speaker 1: a way. Also, you know, I sometimes think it's like
Speaker 1: I've been acting for for twenty years and a lot
Speaker 1: of actors are acting a lot longer than that, and
Speaker 1: so that's a lot of onset experience that I think,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe new directors wouldn't necessarily have hours and
Speaker 1: hours and hours of on set experience, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: such a gift. And I agree, like I love I can.
Speaker 1: I mean, if nothing else, I would say that the
Speaker 1: actors make the best communicators as directors. I think they
Speaker 1: understand in my experience, at least working with directors who
Speaker 1: have also been actors, they understand the proclivities of how
Speaker 1: dynamics need to work on set exactly, how what needs
Speaker 1: to go where, how the different people need to be
Speaker 1: spoken to, how you know, you treat different departments, how
Speaker 1: everything you know, all of that they sort of understand that. Um,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily be forthright enough to say that they're
Speaker 1: the best directors in the world, because I've also worked
Speaker 1: with actors that would make horrible directors. I would be
Speaker 1: a horrible director. But yeah, I think especially communicating with actors,
Speaker 1: because this is what people don't realize, like I guess,
Speaker 1: or maybe people do realize this, Like everyone needs to
Speaker 1: be spoken to a slightly different way. Nobody likes to
Speaker 1: be communicated with exactly the same as the person who
Speaker 1: was just previously communicated with, right, And I guess actors
Speaker 1: are a little more polarized in that because you get,
Speaker 1: as a general rule, quite high up personalities, quite heavy personalities,
Speaker 1: but from very different levels of experience, with very different
Speaker 1: like backgrounds or whatever. So you get these big personalities
Speaker 1: who are all very different and it's almost like big brother.
Speaker 1: They just throw you in a room together and be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you guys have to get on, go go do your thing.
Speaker 1: So I think knowing like like these directors who know like,
Speaker 1: and especially directors who do like one episode in season
Speaker 1: three and people, we've had this dynamic already for three
Speaker 1: years and they come in and they go, I know you,
Speaker 1: I know how to talk to you and how to
Speaker 1: talk to you. I'm figuring you out like and that.
Speaker 1: And it's such a big part of being a director,
Speaker 1: especially in TV, is that you have to understand because
Speaker 1: it's so many times we've seen it happen where directors
Speaker 1: and actors just hit loggerheads and you almost want to
Speaker 1: be like, you can't talk to the director this way.
Speaker 1: Director can't talk to you this way. Nobody's being rude
Speaker 1: or mean. It's just that's just not how these two
Speaker 1: people communicate. That's not your love language. That's not how
Speaker 1: this works, right, Like you have to find that dynamic. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well it's interesting too because I find that I've found
Speaker 1: this with Sally so much. Sally Whitfield, who came to
Speaker 1: direct a couple of times for us. She was so good,
Speaker 1: as were many of our other directors, but at trusting
Speaker 1: different departments to do what they do best and and
Speaker 1: almost going no, no, this is your thing, this is
Speaker 1: what I want for it, but do your thing, and
Speaker 1: here's my vision. And I always took note of that
Speaker 1: because as actors, we have to do the same thing.
Speaker 1: We have to trust the wardrobe department. We have to
Speaker 1: trust the sound department and the stunt department and all
Speaker 1: of these other departments to to just take care of
Speaker 1: things when we have no control over them. And I
Speaker 1: find that a lot with with actors who then become
Speaker 1: directors because they have had that trust built up, and
Speaker 1: often if it's even if it's their set, they've known
Speaker 1: these people for years and they're able to just step
Speaker 1: aside and go, okay, here you go, dear thing, and
Speaker 1: it often turns out so well because people get to
Speaker 1: thrive creatively in their space. Oh that's such a good point.
Speaker 1: At solutely because I mean, even think about yourself, like
Speaker 1: how much do you like to be micromanaged as an actor?
Speaker 1: Like when you have those directors who like our micromanagements,
Speaker 1: you're like, like, you can't thrive. And it it goes
Speaker 1: back to what we were saying earlier about you know,
Speaker 1: getting that take where you get to just do it
Speaker 1: for yourself and be freak sometimes when you are managed,
Speaker 1: like I don't know a ton of actors who appreciate that,
Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, I don't hate it
Speaker 1: at times. It depends on the situation, like it's so interesting,
Speaker 1: like I hate if it's constant, like if it's so
Speaker 1: For those who don't know, I'm sure you've heard the term.
Speaker 1: But listeners, it's a big sort of no no kind
Speaker 1: of across the board. It's called giving a line read,
Speaker 1: and it's when a director comes up and says, literally,
Speaker 1: I want you to say it like this and takes
Speaker 1: all of the creative control out of your hands. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of it's a bit to do across
Speaker 1: the industry. Is not really done however, if we're running
Speaker 1: late and it's sort of one of those scenes where
Speaker 1: it's like a little trivial and like my it's not
Speaker 1: taking a huge amount of emotional involvement. It's you know,
Speaker 1: we're really just sort of rattling off information and I'm
Speaker 1: stood in the wrong place, or I'm turning my head
Speaker 1: the wrong way, it's blocking the camera, whatever it is coming,
Speaker 1: Give me a line read. I don't care. Give me
Speaker 1: a line read, because in an hour's time I have
Speaker 1: to go and change and then I have to do
Speaker 1: an emotional scene. Great, let's get to that. Let's spend
Speaker 1: another hour on that, as opposed to spending an hour here,
Speaker 1: Like he's not it's not exactly what we want. We
Speaker 1: want this, we want this whatever. Just tell me I
Speaker 1: don't care. I don't care totally, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's such crying and you say, actually, can we have
Speaker 1: the tear come out of the right eye, and then
Speaker 1: I'm going to have an issue like yeah, not a puppet.
Speaker 1: That's an excellent point, and you're right, there's definitely a
Speaker 1: time and place and sometimes and it definitely worked with
Speaker 1: actors too, who are just like, you know, tell me
Speaker 1: what you need for me right now, and like I
Speaker 1: do appreciate that collaboration, and but I love Yeah, I love.
Speaker 1: My catch just said, like allowing the departments to thrive
Speaker 1: and to have you know, yeah there, yeah, because and
Speaker 1: I think that's when things really go to the next level.
Speaker 1: You know who was the best at that? Todd Todd
Speaker 1: came in. Todd directed the last two episodes of the show.
Speaker 1: Todd Slavkin, who was season two on show Runner Range,
Speaker 1: came to set every day and the mornings, the days
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to be first up and I
Speaker 1: was in those first scenes in the morning. He made
Speaker 1: a point for four weeks or for three and a
Speaker 1: half weeks when we shot those two episodes, he made
Speaker 1: a point of thanking every a different department every day.
Speaker 1: So every day he would say he would sit, sit
Speaker 1: everyone down and have a great day. We're going to
Speaker 1: do this. Also, can we thank the set deck department
Speaker 1: of putting this set together because it's absolutely incredible and
Speaker 1: everyone every day over the course of those two episodes,
Speaker 1: everyone in our crew got made to feel special at
Speaker 1: least once, and I thought it was the most incredible thing.
Speaker 1: And it's something that's really stuck in my mind, and
Speaker 1: if ever I'm lucky enough to to maybe direct something
Speaker 1: in the future, it's one of those little things that
Speaker 1: I've been like, I'm going to take that because that's
Speaker 1: a really it's a really special thing to do. Is
Speaker 1: a really special way to treat the set. You know,
Speaker 1: it is is and it's putting it. This is something
Speaker 1: that shadow Hunter has taught me across the board, just
Speaker 1: about set life and about production, is that I watched
Speaker 1: every single department set ego aside and go, let's let's
Speaker 1: work together. Let's not fight over resources, let's not focus
Speaker 1: on all of these other hang ups that come up
Speaker 1: and red tape when are often working together and just
Speaker 1: make a good story and create a world together and
Speaker 1: share ideas across lines that are often not crossed on
Speaker 1: a set. And I just I found that process, that
Speaker 1: roundtable sort of a process sometimes quite literally um to
Speaker 1: be really beautiful and and something I try and take
Speaker 1: as much as they can to every set moving forward.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that. I mean both of you were
Speaker 1: also just such incredible one and two like you guys
Speaker 1: set a really great tone, and I do have to
Speaker 1: say that about about both of you, I felt very welcome.
Speaker 1: Even on that first table raid and meeting you got
Speaker 1: like it was. Yeah, the first table read is tough
Speaker 1: because The first table read for anything is like the
Speaker 1: last audition. People think you've got the job, Like you've
Speaker 1: signed your contract. You're going to get paid for at
Speaker 1: least one episode. No matter what your contracts signed, you're
Speaker 1: doing work on that episode. You're going to get paid
Speaker 1: for at least one episode. That is a done deal. However,
Speaker 1: if you do a shitty job at that first table read,
Speaker 1: every single ear is listening. The heads of I don't
Speaker 1: think Netflix was involved yet, but the heads are preformed,
Speaker 1: the heads of Disney TV. They were all listening to that,
Speaker 1: and if any one of us does a ship job,
Speaker 1: they will pull you. They'll give you that whatever your
Speaker 1: pay check was for the episode, they'll pull you and
Speaker 1: they'll throw someone else in. So it's the like like that.
Speaker 1: I think people don't realize how nerve wracking. That first
Speaker 1: one is. I've done it. I've done a table read
Speaker 1: for a decent sized movie that I'm not going to
Speaker 1: mention where casting was in the table read the casting
Speaker 1: director and I was like, this is weird. I don't
Speaker 1: know why you're here. And he came up to me
Speaker 1: and said, is everything okay? You're good? You feel loose?
Speaker 1: And I was like I was you. You started to
Speaker 1: to be like this, now I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: And there was an issue with my contract. There was
Speaker 1: like some the red tape thing that they couldn't figure
Speaker 1: out between the studio and between my team. So the
Speaker 1: casting was there looking at me to watch my performance,
Speaker 1: to try and replate, to see if they in case
Speaker 1: they needed to replace me, in case we couldn't get
Speaker 1: to the end of that, which obviously I found out
Speaker 1: much later on whatever, And they said, do with the guy.
Speaker 1: It's fine, we you know, we've got the contract thing
Speaker 1: figured out. But he casting was literally there watching me,
Speaker 1: being like, Okay, well we can find someone else like
Speaker 1: this if we need to. Can you imagine? So now
Speaker 1: for me, like it's the first table worried for me,
Speaker 1: I'm just I look around him, like, who's here? Who
Speaker 1: is there? Anyone else who looks like me? Is going
Speaker 1: to replace me? What else is happening? You know? Mental?
Speaker 1: But I'm glad you had that experience, Vanessa. I'm glad
Speaker 1: you know now. I mean, now I'm going to be worried,
Speaker 1: but I know, I'm sorry. I'm spread. This is the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm a little less afraid, but I've made you a
Speaker 1: little more afraid the energy in the universe is still
Speaker 1: the same. I'm just holding this of it. It's selfish
Speaker 1: of me. I'm so sorry, you know what I do
Speaker 1: sometimes tend to I feel sometimes like I don't know
Speaker 1: if you guys have ever experienced this, but being on
Speaker 1: a set where somebody didn't want you, so either you know,
Speaker 1: if the network pushed for you or a director pushed
Speaker 1: for your show, when I pushed for you, but somebody
Speaker 1: else didn't want you. So I sometimes do like to
Speaker 1: just like, you know what, do you leave it up
Speaker 1: to the casting guards, because sometimes you don't even want
Speaker 1: to be in a situation if people don't want you.
Speaker 1: It's just like you know what. I've been on sets
Speaker 1: where another actor didn't want me, and that's rough, like
Speaker 1: where the person you're working opposite wanted the other guy.
Speaker 1: And I also made me very aware of it, like
Speaker 1: made it very clear that that was the case, like
Speaker 1: like meeting too. I met this person and they said this,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, thanks, well, fuck, do my best,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what to say, which that's a
Speaker 1: rough one. I fortunately it was with no. I can't
Speaker 1: say that because it will give away it was what
Speaker 1: the job was, but that I was very fortunate to
Speaker 1: have other co stars who were very welcoming and very
Speaker 1: it made me feel like I was that I did
Speaker 1: deserve my place there, but this one person did not.
Speaker 1: And that was pretty rough. That was a pretty rough time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is what it is again, like another little thing
Speaker 1: that I promised myself I would never do, even if
Speaker 1: it's the case, like you're not going to know, I'm
Speaker 1: never going to let you know that I preferred the
Speaker 1: other guy, you know. No, we do learn so much
Speaker 1: from each set and each episode and yeah, of how yeah,
Speaker 1: how you would run your sets, And it's important. It's
Speaker 1: good to know because you Yeah, I think like especially
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have been feeling this way,
Speaker 1: but post pandemic, it just feels like, you know, can
Speaker 1: we all just be a little kinder, Like there's no
Speaker 1: more space for sure? You know that toxic behavior that
Speaker 1: I'm sure we've all been around uncertainly, Yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think I think industry wide, folks have realized and
Speaker 1: been really confronted with how precious it is what we
Speaker 1: get to do and these these little families that we
Speaker 1: get to build, and and how much time we spend
Speaker 1: away from our families and away from our loved ones
Speaker 1: to to do this thing that we love and to
Speaker 1: create these stories. And you want to do it with
Speaker 1: people that are you know, pleasant and professional and just
Speaker 1: fun to be around, you know, and good to work
Speaker 1: with and great collaborators, and not people who are going
Speaker 1: to make that process more difficult. Exactly exactly. I mean
Speaker 1: I think about that a lot because my daughter is
Speaker 1: still so young. It's like, well, if I'm going to
Speaker 1: be away for eight times a day, like, yeah, better
Speaker 1: be worth it. Yeah, yeah, I have always said it,
Speaker 1: And there there are a couple of people that I
Speaker 1: would have to really think about working with again because
Speaker 1: I do this because I enjoy it first and foremost,
Speaker 1: Like that's the number one thing for me. Like I've
Speaker 1: always loved it. This has always been my passion. This
Speaker 1: has always made me smile doing this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And as soon as it's not that it's taking away
Speaker 1: this little element of me that I worked so hard
Speaker 1: to intrinsically put into my life. You know, it's taking
Speaker 1: away a little bit of that where it's like this
Speaker 1: isn't fun, I'm not enjoying doing this, and I worked
Speaker 1: so hard to be in this position to do this,
Speaker 1: and for whatever reason right now, I'm not enjoying it
Speaker 1: and that needs to change that. But I did hear something.
Speaker 1: I can't remember who it was. If when this episode airs,
Speaker 1: I will try, I'll do my best to find this quote.
Speaker 1: UM say a man being interviewed, and the interviewer says,
Speaker 1: do you have because you know, world renowned for being
Speaker 1: emotionally very stable, like always happy and you know whatever? Um?
Speaker 1: And he says, do you have the capacity to be angry?
Speaker 1: And he says, of course, I have the capacity to
Speaker 1: be angry. I have the capacity to be anything. I
Speaker 1: just haven't given anyone that privilege. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the coolest thing, Like because it's not you don't get angry.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you get angry at yourself. That happens
Speaker 1: to me all the time, where I leave the cupboard
Speaker 1: open and then I stand up and I hit my
Speaker 1: head and I'm like, God, so annoying, but it's my
Speaker 1: fault and I don't know what to do about it.
Speaker 1: But like giving someone else the ability to make you angry,
Speaker 1: it seems like a less evolved way of dealing with
Speaker 1: things to me, I think as as a human being.
Speaker 1: We've gotten to a stage where it's like that was
Speaker 1: really annoying. But you know what, I'm not gonna let
Speaker 1: you damage my day. That's not you. That doesn't mean
Speaker 1: enough to me, Like you behave how you need to behave.
Speaker 1: The only time on sets where I've had an issue
Speaker 1: and I've had to say something is when it's impacting
Speaker 1: other people or other departments or whatever. Then I'm like
Speaker 1: this this we need to figure out a way of
Speaker 1: how to stop this from happening. But for me, I'm
Speaker 1: I've actually pride myself on it now and my therapist,
Speaker 1: between the two of us, we really figured it out.
Speaker 1: But it's say, I think it's a smart way of
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and if it stops you from getting
Speaker 1: angry once then maybe it's a solid piece of advice.
Speaker 1: I've got to try and find that quote myself. You,
Speaker 1: between you and Google, you can figure that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I tend to save them so it's somewhere, but I'm
Speaker 1: to write it down, but truly, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: funny how little bits of energy and every single person
Speaker 1: on set can affect the piece as a whole and
Speaker 1: the mood as a whole, and especially you know, someone
Speaker 1: like yourself and USA, who was so instrumental and so
Speaker 1: such a part of Shadow Hunters from its inception. We
Speaker 1: have you to thank for so much of what that
Speaker 1: family became and what the show grew into. And so
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't think there's really a more
Speaker 1: perfect place to wrap this up other than saying thank
Speaker 1: you for for being our day and for being that person.
Speaker 1: That's so sweet. I mean, right back at you, guys.
Speaker 1: It was such a wonderful experience and and like I said,
Speaker 1: I had a lot to do with the tone that
Speaker 1: you said from day one, and um, yeah, what an adventure.
Speaker 1: Who knew would be talking about it today? It's why
Speaker 1: I know how wonderful this is such a wonderful thing
Speaker 1: to be able to do and go back, and like
Speaker 1: people's lives have evolved so much as well, Like so
Speaker 1: many people have babies, so many shadows as people have babies.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, so many babies. But it's it's I know,
Speaker 1: that's what's really cool. It's really nice to see everyone
Speaker 1: like we're all adults now. It's crazy. I know, it's wild.
Speaker 1: A lot can happen in a short time. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having me it was so lovely to
Speaker 1: see you both, and and thank you absolute pleasure, thank
Speaker 1: you for thank you for spending time with us. What
Speaker 1: else do you have coming up? Where can people find
Speaker 1: your next thing? So? Okay, well I just directed my
Speaker 1: first feature. It's called Midnight at the Paradise. We're submitting
Speaker 1: it to festivals so hopefully it gets to do tiff
Speaker 1: that's what I really love. Um, but we'll see. I
Speaker 1: I don't know. So that was my big thing. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm on Nat Geo's The Hot Zone Anthrax which aired
Speaker 1: I guess in February now and then go back and
Speaker 1: find that it's good. It's Daniel A. Kim and Tony Goldwin.
Speaker 1: It's it's like a real it's it's limited to Daniel
Speaker 1: to talk about what a beautiful soul. Absolutely, I mean
Speaker 1: talk about people setting a lovely tone like Tony Goldwin
Speaker 1: and Daniel Day Kim. It doesn't get any It was
Speaker 1: a treat. It was. It was like one of those lovely,
Speaker 1: lovely jobs. Yeah, and then I recur on Letter Kenny
Speaker 1: as well, which I don't know. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, great,
Speaker 1: that's fabulous. Well, congratulations on everything, and and thanks for
Speaker 1: taking the time. Thank you you too, my pleasure, so
Speaker 1: nice to see you. Thanks so much. Let me know
Speaker 1: if you need anything. And that was so much fun.
Speaker 1: Return to the Shadows hosted an executive produced by me Dominic,
Speaker 1: Showood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our
Speaker 1: senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our producer
Speaker 1: is Hannah Harris and Kristin Familiar and our intern is
Speaker 1: Sam Cats which no music by Alex Kinsey performed by
Speaker 1: Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara. M