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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard

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Speaker 2: podcast and unbothered production.

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Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 2: After a ten to three season and an appearance in

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Speaker 2: the college football playoffs last season, a lot of Tennessee

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Speaker 2: fans were understandably looking forward to seeing if this year's

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Speaker 2: Tennessee football team could improve on what they did in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Now, part of that excitement was because

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Speaker 2: of quarterback Nico Iamali Lava, who threw nineteen touchdowns and

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Speaker 2: just five interceptions last season and showed enough flashes for

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Speaker 2: Balls fans to think he could perhaps take them to

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Speaker 2: the next level. But that ship has sailed, That bridge

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Speaker 2: has been blown up and been burned to a crisp

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Speaker 2: because the Balls and Nico are parted ways over what

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Speaker 2: is now a brutal reality in.

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Speaker 1: Big time college athletics. Now.

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Speaker 2: Last week, Nico essentially staged a holdout because he and

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Speaker 2: his hands reportedly felt as if his expected two point

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Speaker 2: two million dollar salary for this season was not consistent

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Speaker 2: with the industry standard. Supposedly, Nico's camp was seeking a

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Speaker 2: salary of four million, since that's what Carson Beck supposedly

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Speaker 2: got for transferring to Miami and Darian Mensa got from

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Speaker 2: leaving for Duke Now after Nico's skip practice and wasn't

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Speaker 2: in contact with the team at all. Tennessee had two options.

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Speaker 2: Option one, run Nico his money. Option two, tell Nico,

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Speaker 2: let the door knob hit you with a good lord,

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Speaker 2: splitch you. Here's the option Tennessee head coach Josh Haipel

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Speaker 2: chose instead.

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Speaker 3: Today's landscape of college football, it's different than what it

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Speaker 3: has been, and you know, so unfortunate, you know, just

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Speaker 3: the situation and where we're at with Nico. I want

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Speaker 3: to thank him for everything that he's done since he's

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Speaker 3: gotten here, you know, as a recruit, to who he

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Speaker 3: was as a player and how he competed inside of

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Speaker 3: the building, and so a great appreciation for that side

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Speaker 3: of it. Obviously, we're moving forward as a program without him.

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Speaker 3: You know, I said it to the guys today, there's

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Speaker 3: no one that's bigger than the power tea and that

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Speaker 3: includes me or.

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Speaker 1: Is the great urban philosopher Nino Brown once said.

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Speaker 2: And I wouldn't want to be a cold game, but

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Speaker 2: let me give you a little backstory on Nico, which

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Speaker 2: explains why Tennessee responded the way that they did see.

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Speaker 2: When Nico was a high school junior, Tennessee's nil collective

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Speaker 2: Spire Sports broke him off with a four year deal

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Speaker 2: that was worth eight million dollars, which included three hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty grand up front, and he got paid during

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Speaker 2: his senior year of high school. Boy was bawling now

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Speaker 2: when he saw that his position was becoming more valuable,

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Speaker 2: he wanted more money. Now, those of us who have

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Speaker 2: been through contract negotiations understand that you might sign a

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Speaker 2: deal on Tuesday and by Thursday, somebody else could be

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Speaker 2: making more money than you. And certainly in the NFL,

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Speaker 2: players hold out all the time trying to get new deals.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it works out, like when Emmitt Smith held out

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Speaker 2: from the Cowboys after Dallas won.

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Speaker 1: Its first Super Bowl.

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Speaker 2: The Cowboys tried to stand on business and replace Smith

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Speaker 2: with a rookie, but they lost their first two games

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Speaker 2: and only.

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Speaker 1: Scored and whopping twenty six points.

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Speaker 2: Owner Jerry Jones swallowed his pride and made Emmitt Smith

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Speaker 2: the highest paid running back in the NFL at the time.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes you get bitt in the ass and wind

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Speaker 2: up like Melvin Gordon, who in twenty nineteen was in

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Speaker 2: the last year of his rookie deal with the San

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Speaker 2: Diego Chargers.

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Speaker 1: The Chargers put ten million per year on the table,

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Speaker 1: but Gordon passed.

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Speaker 2: Gordon missed the first four games of the season, and

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Speaker 2: during that time Austin Eckler became the man. Not only

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Speaker 2: did Gordon not get a new deal with the Chargers,

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Speaker 2: they let him walk in the offseason. They also gave

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Speaker 2: Eckler a four year, twenty four point five million dollar deal.

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Speaker 2: Now that's business, And as my friend and former colleague

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Speaker 2: Jim Rome once told me, in negotiations, sometimes you're the

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Speaker 2: hammer and sometimes you're the nail. You got to have

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Speaker 2: an enough self awareness to know which one you are

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Speaker 2: in a contract negotiation.

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Speaker 1: Clearly Nico nor his people.

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Speaker 2: Realize that he was the nail, and now he doesn't

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Speaker 2: have much leverage. He has plummeted his value because he's

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Speaker 2: shown a lack of commitment and at this stage in

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Speaker 2: his career, he's not so dynamic that a school is

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Speaker 2: simply going to pay top dollar and ignore all these

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Speaker 2: red flags. But even though Nico deserves his share of

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Speaker 2: the blame for handling things so unprofessionally, we should never

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Speaker 2: forget the reason major college sports are in such chaos

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Speaker 2: right now is because the NCAA was more interested in

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Speaker 2: preserving a system of complete inequity than building the infrastructure

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Speaker 2: for a fair system that included the players. Now, their

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Speaker 2: blatant greed gave the players all the ammunition they needed

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Speaker 2: to kick their ass in court, which they have done

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Speaker 2: quite successfully to topple this entire house of cards. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: in this hyper capitalist country, it's not going to hold

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Speaker 2: up that the players who generate billions of dollars for

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Speaker 2: colleges and universities should be frozen out on cashing in

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Speaker 2: when everyone else in that same ecosystem gets to make

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Speaker 2: as much money as they possibly can. It was never

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Speaker 2: a fair system. The college football fans and even some

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Speaker 2: of the coaches bemoaning the state of the game are

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Speaker 2: going to have to accept the fact that this is

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Speaker 2: a business. But more importantly, the NCAA needs to accept

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Speaker 2: that too. Instead of lobbying Congress to stem the tide

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Speaker 2: that they created, the NCAA created a book filled with

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Speaker 2: hundreds of rules for players, schools, and coaches to follow.

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Speaker 2: So surely they can put their big brains to work

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Speaker 2: and come up with a system that protects the schools,

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Speaker 2: the players, and the sport. For example, how about some

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Speaker 2: kind of transfer system that is somewhat like what we

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Speaker 2: see in professional soccer. Instead of having mid majors and

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Speaker 2: small colleges become a feeder system for the big schools

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Speaker 2: with no recourse, make these big schools compensate these smaller

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Speaker 2: schools for them their time and development of players, because

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Speaker 2: if the NCAA continues down this path of resistance, they're

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Speaker 2: not only going to sink themselves, but drown all of

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Speaker 2: college sports. I'm Jamel Hill, and I approved this message.

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Speaker 2: There are some people who are simply not willing to

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Speaker 2: bend the knee, no matter the cost personally or professionally.

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Speaker 2: My guest today was recently arrested at a school board

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Speaker 2: meeting because he purposely engaged in what he described as

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Speaker 2: the time honored American tradition of peaceful civil disobedience. That

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Speaker 2: demonstration cost him his job as a high school football coach,

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Speaker 2: But that isn't the first time using his voice cost

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Speaker 2: him his employment, since he believes he lost his NFL

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Speaker 2: career for standing up for same sex marriage at a

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Speaker 2: time when people are trying to figure out what resistance

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Speaker 2: looks like.

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Speaker 1: For them.

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Speaker 2: It's important to hear from the people willing to put

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Speaker 2: it all on the line. Coming up next on politics,

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Speaker 2: former NFL punter Chris Klui. Chris, Before we get into

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Speaker 2: your most recent activities which got you arrested, which I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to get the full download from you about

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Speaker 2: everything that happened, I'm going to start by asking you

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Speaker 2: a question I ask every guest that appears on politics,

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Speaker 2: and that is name a moment or an athlete that

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Speaker 2: made you love sports.

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Speaker 4: Ooh dang, that's a tough one because, like I always

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Speaker 4: played sports because I wanted to be that moment, right, So,

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Speaker 4: and I wasn't really a huge sports fan growing up

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Speaker 4: because I love playing video games. So whenever I have

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Speaker 4: TV time, it's like, okay, well, you know, I got

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Speaker 4: to turn on the TV. But I mean in terms

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Speaker 4: of like, like, actually, once I started learning about sports,

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Speaker 4: it's got to be either Muhammad Ali, you know, protesting

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Speaker 4: the Vietnam War, or Jackie Robinson probably breaking the color

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Speaker 4: barrier in baseball and then actually going to UCLA learning

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Speaker 4: Aboutkenny Washington doing the same in the NFL. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: kind of but you know, just learning this where it

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Speaker 4: could be more than just what you actually do on

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Speaker 4: the field.

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Speaker 2: Okay, moving ahead, that just you mentioned briefly like those

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Speaker 2: examples that made you love sports, and you mentioned, you know,

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Speaker 2: can you wash it in Muhammad Ali that these are

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Speaker 2: all athletes who use their platforms to speak about social

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Speaker 2: and political issues. This is something you have done consistently

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Speaker 2: throughout your career. But when was the time for you?

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Speaker 2: It didn't have to be one moment, but when did

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Speaker 2: you sort of realize this was how you wanted to

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Speaker 2: use your platform.

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Speaker 4: Well, so for me, it's actually the moment where I

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Speaker 4: first started speaking out, which would be for LGBT rights,

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Speaker 4: back when I was playing for the Vikings. Because you know,

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Speaker 4: up until that point, like I had had a concept

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Speaker 4: of social justice right in that like I wanted the

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Speaker 4: world to be a fair place. I didn't want people

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Speaker 4: to you know, suffer under oppression. But I hadn't really

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Speaker 4: seen myself as like having a role to play in that.

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Speaker 4: Like I couldn't you know, envision myself as a person

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Speaker 4: who was out there speaking. And then I was approached

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Speaker 4: by a group of minisotes for marriage quality who asked me, hey,

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Speaker 4: you know, would you be interested in defeating this amendment?

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Speaker 4: That was going to ban same sex marriage in the

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Speaker 4: state of Minnesota. Was at that point, I was just like, oh, shoot,

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Speaker 4: like I actually do have the platform, Like I am

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Speaker 4: in a position to do something, so I need to

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Speaker 4: do it because if I ever want someone to speak

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Speaker 4: out for me, well then I got to be willing

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Speaker 4: to do it when it's my journ.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The NFL, I've often told people, is a leg of conformity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of the model that's built on.

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Speaker 2: And I don't mean that negatively, but there's just a

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Speaker 2: very It's a reason why people always make parallels to

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Speaker 2: the military because of the way the NFL operates and

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Speaker 2: certainly the way they want their players to operate within

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Speaker 2: the structure of the NFL.

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Speaker 1: So, as you were deciding that you were going to

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Speaker 1: join this fight.

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Speaker 2: How did you broach this subject of wanting to be

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Speaker 2: a voice for marriage equality with the Vikings.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I first I approached the team's legal department,

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Speaker 4: I believe it was Kevin Warren at the time, was

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Speaker 4: the head of legal for the Vikings, and talked with

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Speaker 4: him and is like, Hey, like, I want to do this,

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Speaker 4: How how do I do this? You know, without the

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Speaker 4: team thinking that like I'm doing something bad because you know,

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Speaker 4: obviously I knew it was going to be a risky

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Speaker 4: stance to take and that one of the potential consequences

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Speaker 4: would be that people would get upset and I might

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Speaker 4: potentially lose my job. But at the same time, I

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Speaker 4: was like, I feel, this is what we're speaking out,

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Speaker 4: and so he told me, He's like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: as long as you make it clear that you're a

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Speaker 4: private citizen speaking on your own time, you're not representing

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Speaker 4: the Minnesota Vikings, then yeah, it's fine. And I stuck

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Speaker 4: to that, like everything I did was on my own dime.

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Speaker 4: But like it was, you know, I wasn't doing it

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Speaker 4: at the facility. I didn't do it during games. It

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Speaker 4: was just like, hey, Chris Clue, American citizen is concerned

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Speaker 4: about this, Like you should be concerned about this too. Now,

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Speaker 4: obviously it didn't work out that way. I mean I

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Speaker 4: ended up getting blacklisted from the league anyways. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it was one of those things where I definitely

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Speaker 4: knew there could be consequences. I was trying to mitigate

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Speaker 4: those as much as possible. But at the end of

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Speaker 4: the day, unfortunately, the NFL is run by a bunch

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Speaker 4: of rich, old white men for the most part, and

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Speaker 4: they the vast majority of them, donate to Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: They voted for Donald Trump, and they're the ones who

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Speaker 4: signed the checks. And I understand why other players don't

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Speaker 4: speak out, because you do run a very real risk

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Speaker 4: of losing her job and it is not an easy

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Speaker 4: job to get and you can't get that job anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: When it came to you picking this particular cause, I

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Speaker 2: don't or what was sort of the reaction with your teammates,

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Speaker 2: because you know, let's be honest that when we think

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Speaker 2: about social causes that we see athletes do get involved.

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Speaker 1: In, typically it's not marriage equality is not one of them.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: You see racial issues, certainly other political issues, but marriage equality,

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Speaker 2: especially given what is the brand of football, that is

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Speaker 2: a rather unique one. So what how did your teammates

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Speaker 2: sort of react to you being involved in this cause?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So it's super interesting because at the time, the

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Speaker 4: kind of the social perception on same sex marriage was

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Speaker 4: about it was around like sixty percent four about forty

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Speaker 4: percent against. And I really saw that kind of mirrored

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Speaker 4: in kind of my interactions with my teammates, and that

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Speaker 4: about sixty percent of the guys who came up to

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Speaker 4: me were just like, hey, what we think what you're

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Speaker 4: doing is great. You know, that's awesome. Then about forty

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Speaker 4: percent were just like, hey, we may not necessarily agree

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Speaker 4: with you, but at the same time, you know, everyone

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Speaker 4: has the right to speak their mind, and like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, that's that's fine. And I never had any

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Speaker 4: issues with anyone in the locker room, like I never

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Speaker 4: had any issues with any of the other players, because again,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't like I was in there preaching at people.

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Speaker 4: It was like, you know, if someone wanted to have

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Speaker 4: a conversation, I was more than willing to have that conversation.

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Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, we're there to

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Speaker 4: play football, right Like That's like, the NFL is a

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Speaker 4: very hard thing to do at a professional level, and

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Speaker 4: I was like, my focus is on making sure I

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Speaker 4: can pun a football as best as I can because

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Speaker 4: otherwise they're going to fire me. So but yeah, No,

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Speaker 4: what I thought was interesting about it was that it

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Speaker 4: really mirrored kind of the general societal, you know, view

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Speaker 4: of like, hey, this is what America is like. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's something people don't really understand about the NFL,

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Speaker 4: and kind of sports in general, is that even though

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Speaker 4: you see us as athletes, right like you see us

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Speaker 4: as people on the television screen doing this one specific thing,

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, we're human beings and

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Speaker 4: we come from very broad array of you know, socio

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Speaker 4: economic backgrounds, religious backgrounds, you know, personal upbringings, and that's

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Speaker 4: reflected in people's views inside the locker room. It's not

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Speaker 4: just a homogenous entity.

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Speaker 2: I've heard players, both current and former players, talk about

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Speaker 2: what that mix is like in the locker room, and

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Speaker 2: I think for a lot of us that aren't privy

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Speaker 2: to some of what you have seen in the locker room,

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Speaker 2: I guess some of us are just curious. It's like

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Speaker 2: how those conversations go, because, as you mentioned, you have

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Speaker 2: a mixture of people, different racial backgrounds, you know, different

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Speaker 2: ethnic backgrounds, social economic like, it runs across the board.

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Speaker 2: So when there are I've heard, in fact, one former

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Speaker 2: player even told me that that was actually the best

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Speaker 2: place to have this kind of discourse as opposed to

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Speaker 2: like out here in the civilian world, right, they tend to.

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Speaker 1: Be much different when you try to have those conversations.

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Speaker 2: So maybe provide some insight as to what it's like

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Speaker 2: when it comes to challenging topics, be it you know,

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Speaker 2: racism or you know, you mentioned same sex marriage, Like

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Speaker 2: what are those kinds of topics like when discussing them

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Speaker 2: in the midst of a locker room.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's actually really interesting because everyone in there

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Speaker 4: comes from a sort of shared goal right where we

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Speaker 4: all are out there doing the conditioning, like we're all

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Speaker 4: out there running half gassers, you know, we're all in

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Speaker 4: the weight room doing the really crappy parts that don't

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Speaker 4: get shown on television but that you have to do

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Speaker 4: to be a professional athlete. And everyone knows you've committed

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Speaker 4: yourself to this right like you put in the time,

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Speaker 4: you put in the hours. So there is that sort

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Speaker 4: of shared bond between everyone that you understand, this isn't

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Speaker 4: just someone talking out of their ass about something like

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Speaker 4: they've you know, they they've shown they can commit to something,

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Speaker 4: They've shown they understand what it takes to be great,

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Speaker 4: and so like we can have those conversations and disagree

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Speaker 4: with each other because we know, like afterwards, we're going

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Speaker 4: to go out on the field and we're going to

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Speaker 4: do our jobs to the best of our ability. And

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Speaker 4: you know that the person you're talking with like they

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Speaker 4: want to win, right, Like they're going to give you

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Speaker 4: their best effort. And so yeah, I think that's part

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Speaker 4: of why we're able to have those conversations because again,

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Speaker 4: like you just you've suffered through the same stuff. So

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Speaker 4: it's like, okay, well yeah, this is different, you know,

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Speaker 4: than what we do out on the field. But there's

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Speaker 4: there's a genuineness to the conversation to where you know,

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Speaker 4: you share something with that other person.

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Speaker 2: Well, tell me if this is a crazy analogy or not.

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Speaker 2: In a way, I kind of liken it to marriage

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Speaker 2: because in marriage, you have to come into every every

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Speaker 2: disagreement the spirit of resolution has to be there because

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Speaker 2: a lot of times, you know what I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: like a lot of times when you're just in a

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Speaker 2: relationship that is, you know, not not leading to marriage

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Speaker 2: or you know you're not married. It's like you could

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Speaker 2: come in there with the intention and the mindset of

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Speaker 2: I need to win this argument, but.

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Speaker 1: At what costs?

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Speaker 2: Right, at marriage, you actually have to think about what

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Speaker 2: the costs At the end of the day, I got

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Speaker 2: to go to sleep with this person, right, you know,

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Speaker 2: And so maybe to that degree, where's that way in

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Speaker 2: the locker room, it's like, regardless of the different political

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Speaker 2: difference or whatever, at the end of the day, at

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Speaker 2: was some point, I'm gonna be on the field together

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Speaker 2: and everybody's try to get paid and are trying to win.

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Speaker 1: So is that something you know? Is it? Does that

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Speaker 1: make sense as it?

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Speaker 4: And oh yeah, yeah, no, that makes total sense. Like

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Speaker 4: I've I've been happily married to my wife for I

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Speaker 4: think like twenty some odd years now, and like we've

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Speaker 4: had some real like screaming arguments before in the past, right,

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Speaker 4: but like you said, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: it's we love each other. We want to spend our

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Speaker 4: lives together, so we need to figure out how to

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Speaker 4: resolve this. And so in the locker room, it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you may get into an argument with a guy, like

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Speaker 4: I've seen dudes getting fistfights, right bright I think it

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Speaker 4: was God, I forget it was one of our running

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Speaker 4: backs threw a chair at someone. But then you know,

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Speaker 4: the next day it's like, Okay, well we got to

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Speaker 4: go out and beat the packers. So we're all on

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Speaker 4: the same page. We may not even necessarily like each

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Speaker 4: other today, but you know tomorrow we have to come

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Speaker 4: together as a team and we have to go out

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Speaker 4: there to succeed. And so, yeah, I think you're you're

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Speaker 4: really spot on on that in that Yet it is

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Speaker 4: a lot like a relationship in that you do have

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Speaker 4: an overwriting goal you're trying to achieve.

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Speaker 2: You as somebody who's a heterosexual man speaking out on

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Speaker 2: behalf of same sex marriage, how do you think your voice,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe added to that conversation because you were,

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Speaker 2: you know, somebody who technically this doesn't impact, So how

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Speaker 2: do you think your voice was able to sort of

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Speaker 2: kind of add to the issue overall?

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Speaker 4: Right, So, the unfortunate reality of America that you know

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Speaker 4: has been the case for pretty much since the founding

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Speaker 4: of our country is that straight white men get listened

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Speaker 4: to more than anyone else. Like that, that really is

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Speaker 4: just the reality of America. And so there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of people out there who have been doing the work,

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Speaker 4: you know, people from the LGBTQ plus community, people you know,

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Speaker 4: from non white communities, people who have been putting in

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Speaker 4: the hours and putting in the time, and unfortunately, people

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Speaker 4: who look like me don't tend to listen to them,

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Speaker 4: right like, because they're like, oh, well, you know, that

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Speaker 4: doesn't affect me like you just said, or you know,

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Speaker 4: I will never see myself in that situation. But when

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Speaker 4: someone who does look like them, when someone who they

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Speaker 4: can relate to and be like, oh, that's you know,

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Speaker 4: that's a white guy playing football, Like I can picture

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Speaker 4: myself in that position, when they say the exact same thing, Now,

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, it becomes important. And I wish

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Speaker 4: that wasn't the case. I wish people would listen when

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Speaker 4: other people are like, Hey, what you're doing is wrong.

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Speaker 4: You should stop doing it. But since that is the

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Speaker 4: reality we live in, it is incumbent upon those of

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Speaker 4: us with the privilege and with the power that can

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Speaker 4: say those kind of things and be listened to that

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Speaker 4: we actually do say those things that we do engage

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Speaker 4: those people and make them understand that. Yet, just because

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Speaker 4: this isn't affecting you personally now, that doesn't mean it

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Speaker 4: may not affect you in the future, because hey, what

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Speaker 4: if your kid grows up to be a member of

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Speaker 4: the LGBTQ plus community, Like we saw that a lot

394
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Speaker 4: in Republican positions during the you know, same sex marriage debate,

395
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Speaker 4: is that they would be firmly against it up until

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Speaker 4: the point where it personally impacted them or their family,

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Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 4: maybe maybe people should be allowed to get married, Like

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Speaker 4: maybe this is that's a good idea.

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Speaker 2: Of course, once you decided to step out there and

401
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Speaker 2: support you know, marriage equality, the reaction then from the

402
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Speaker 2: Viking seemed to be mixed.

403
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Speaker 1: I think that's probably the best way to put it.

404
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Speaker 2: So, once it became apparent that the Vikings weren't completely

405
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Speaker 2: comfortable with you taking this position, how did it impact

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Speaker 2: how you chose to use your voice for this issue.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so so, And I think a key point to

408
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Speaker 4: point out there is that I'm not sure that it

409
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Speaker 4: was necessarily the issue so much as as it was

410
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Speaker 4: the issue plus the attention, right, because in the NFL

411
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Speaker 4: is real big on like, don't bring attention to us

412
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Speaker 4: unless it's one of our preferred things that we want

413
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Speaker 4: you to break attention to. Right, Certain politics are okay

414
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Speaker 4: to talk about in the NFL, but you know, something

415
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Speaker 4: like that. It was like, because like I initially started

416
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Speaker 4: working with Minnesotas for marriage quality back in the summer

417
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Speaker 4: of twenty twelve, so this was before the season even started,

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Speaker 4: and like I'd done some appearances. I'd done some radio

419
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Speaker 4: stuff and no one really cared about it because it

420
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Speaker 4: wasn't a big deal yet. And then I wrote the

421
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Speaker 4: dead Spin piece. They went super viral, and now all

422
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Speaker 4: of a sudden, it's like, Okay, now there's national attention

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Speaker 4: on this thing. Now it's becoming an issue, and so yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just I think it's unfortunate that the way the

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Speaker 4: team approached it was kind of like, we don't want

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Speaker 4: you to bring this kind of attention to the team,

427
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Speaker 4: whereas I was like, well, no, we need to talk

428
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Speaker 4: about this, and like and yeah, people are going to

429
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Speaker 4: ask me about it in the locker room, but when

430
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Speaker 4: I'm in the locker room, like I'm telling them, I'm

431
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Speaker 4: here for football. Like, if people want to interview me

432
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Speaker 4: away from the locker room, I'm going to talk with

433
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Speaker 4: them about same sex marriage because I think it's something

434
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Speaker 4: we're talking about, and as an American citizen, I have

435
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Speaker 4: the right to do so. Like, it doesn't matter what

436
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 4: your job is. It doesn't matter if you're an NFL player,

437
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter, you know, if you're a plumber, if

438
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 4: you're a bus driver, a teacher, you have the First

439
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,199
Speaker 4: Amendment protected right to speak your mind in a public

440
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 4: setting to your government, even if it's an unpopular viewpoint.

441
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 4: And I feel unfortunately a lot of people are moving

442
00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 4: away from that.

443
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: But Chris, you said you don't think it was the issue.

444
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 4: So sorry, and then it wasn't. Like I think it

445
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 4: wouldn't have been as much of an issue as if

446
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 4: it didn't come with as much attention as it came with.

447
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

448
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, no, that makes sense because I mean part

449
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 2: of it is, like I do think it's a little

450
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 2: bit you know, outside looking in a little bit about

451
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: the issue. Like for example, if you know, let's say

452
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: you were still playing for the Vikings when George Floyd happens, Right,

453
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 2: I don't know that the league is going to have

454
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: that same reaction that they had versus how they responded,

455
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: or I shouldn't say the league, but let me be

456
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 2: very specific, the Vikings would have responded the way that

457
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 2: they did if you would have spoken out against what

458
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 2: happened to George Floyd.

459
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, yeah, no, so yeah, I agree with

460
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 4: you in that there definitely there definitely were regressive elements

461
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 4: that did not like the issue itself. And it's actually

462
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 4: funny because my wife, my wife and I were talking

463
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 4: back when Colin Kaepernick was protesting right where she was like,

464
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 4: if they hadn't blacklisted you before, you definitely would have

465
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 4: been blacklisted there. You absolutely would have been on a knee.

466
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 4: I'm like, yelp. So yeah, I think I think that

467
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 4: that is the case that there are certain political issues

468
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 4: that the league does not want to talk about, again

469
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 4: because it's run by rich white men who tend to

470
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 4: hold fairly conservative viewpoints. So yes, I do think there

471
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: is a certain faction within the NFL that just doesn't

472
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 4: want it to be any sort of progressivism like associated

473
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 4: with the league itself.

474
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 2: So and as you mentioned, you wrote about this in

475
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: Desband where you laid out exactly what led to you

476
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: being blacklisted from the league and talked about like all

477
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: these things that happened behind the scenes once you decided

478
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: that you were going to speak out on this issue.

479
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: One of the things that somewhat surprised me is Leslie Fraser,

480
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 2: who was a coach of the Vikings at the time

481
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: when you decided to do this. For those of you

482
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 2: who don't know, you know, he's a black head coach,

483
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: very respected, you know, one of the again one of

484
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 2: the league's you know, sort of best coaches who is

485
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: known for, you know, being a defensive mindy coach. You know,

486
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: he's got an extensive resume in the league.

487
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 1: He was one of.

488
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: The ones who said early on that he really didn't

489
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 2: want you doing this and he didn't want you to

490
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 2: step out and make and you know, he wasn't saying

491
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 2: anything against the issue. Based off what I read from

492
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: what you said, it was mostly that he was concerned

493
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: that you were going to get the type of attention

494
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: that wasn't going to be good for the team and

495
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: good for the league. How surprising was it for you

496
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: that Leslie Fraser took that position, because here we have

497
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: a black head coach's probably been through his own level

498
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: of struggles in terms of trying to break barriers in

499
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: this league. We know how the NFL has treated a

500
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: lot of black coaches. Were you surprised that that was

501
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 2: his position?

502
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 4: I was a little surprised, but I also like I

503
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: understood it right, and that he is a head coach.

504
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 4: He is, you know, a black man as a head coach, which,

505
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 4: as you said, is very hard to do. I mean,

506
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 4: like it's especially back then, and the sense I always

507
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 4: got from him. Wasn't that it was about the issue

508
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 4: is about the fact that he just did not want

509
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 4: any sort of controversy to come to the team because

510
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 4: you know, he felt like it would blow back on him.

511
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a fair stance to take, because yeah,

512
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 4: like you know that can lead to you getting fired

513
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 4: as a head coach. But at the same time, there's

514
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 4: a reason why I titled my second piece I was

515
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 4: fired by two cowards in a Bigot, because I think

516
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 4: it is a cowardly stance to take. And I'm sorry.

517
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 4: I know you've gone through a lot of shit. Like,

518
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 4: I know it's not fair to say that, but at

519
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 4: the end of the day, like you got to be

520
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 4: able to stand up for something right, like, especially when

521
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 4: it's uncomfortable or dangerous, because that's when you know it

522
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: really matters.

523
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: So to your point about two cowards in the Bigot,

524
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: let's talk about the bigot.

525
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: The big I don't know if I'm saying his name right,

526
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: is it Mike Prefer?

527
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike Creefer, Mike Preefer, Like who cares about pronounce

528
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,479
Speaker 2: his name right? Given all the things you'd laid down

529
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: in this piece, you know, according to you, as you

530
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: wrote is that Mike Preefer who was your position coach,

531
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 2: correct with the vikings, he was somebody who made it

532
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 2: very known that he was against gay marriage, seemed to

533
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: be quite homophobic based off what you described, and he

534
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: was sort of leaning into his Christian beliefs.

535
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: As being the shield for why he felt this way.

536
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: So knowing that this coach that you have, that is,

537
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: you know, your position coach, who is responsible for so

538
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 2: much in terms of like what you're playing, you know

539
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 2: how much you're playing and the perception of your performance

540
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: is like this person is directly responsible for this. At

541
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: what point did you start to get the overt indications

542
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 2: that he was going to be a major roleblock for

543
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: you in this scenario.

544
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 4: After the first dead Spend piece with Viral, because up

545
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 4: to that point, like, you know, the team obviously knew

546
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 4: what I was doing, because you know, I'd been doing

547
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 4: the appearances, and like, guys would give me shit about it,

548
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: right because you know that happens in a lot room

549
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 4: and like, but it's it's it's really easy to tell

550
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 4: when someone's just trying to get a rise out of you, right,

551
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 4: because you know they're they're they're just talking shit versus

552
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 4: this person actually believes what they're saying, right, Like, it's

553
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 4: you know, there's a there's a difference in inflection, there's

554
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: a difference in tone, there's a difference in how they

555
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 4: actually approach what they're saying. And like, up until that

556
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: first letter went viral, I got the sense that no

557
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: one was really like saying things to me with the

558
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 4: intention like we don't like gay people. We don't think

559
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: this should be a case. It's more just like, oh,

560
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 4: we're gonna give the punter some shit because you know

561
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 4: he's speaking on on this. After that letter went viral,

562
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 4: that dynamic changed like completely between me and Preefer in

563
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 4: that like it started like just the way he was

564
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 4: talking about stuff, the things that he would bring up,

565
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 4: I'm just like, oh, crap, this is a guy who's

566
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 4: responsible for my job and he really does not like

567
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 4: what I'm doing. And so it's it's one of those

568
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: uncomfortable moments because my initial instinct right is to kind

569
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 4: of lash back, right to be like, no, like fuck you,

570
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 4: like this this is important and you should care about this.

571
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's like, if I can

572
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 4: just get through this season, hopefully it'll die down, you know,

573
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 4: don't make waves, everything will be okay. And and you know,

574
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 4: obviously I tried to follow the second path. It didn't work,

575
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 4: and that was where that's when I reverted to my

576
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: initial instinct where it's like, all right, then you know

577
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 4: it's if this is who you are, now we need

578
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 4: to talk about it, because again I based on everything

579
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 4: I saw, based on how my performances were recorded. Yeah,

580
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 4: I firmly believe I was fired from the Vikings for

581
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 4: my political views, not for my punning ability, and it

582
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: was It's unfortunate because like I set most of the

583
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 4: Vikings punning records while I was there, and like I,

584
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 4: you know, not to toot my own horn, but I

585
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 4: feel like I was pretty good at my job, and yeah,

586
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: it turned out the way it did. Now now that

587
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 4: being said, for what it's worth, I also think people

588
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 4: need to be given a chance to grow from their mistakes, right, Like,

589
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 4: it's it's one thing to be Okay, I made a mistake.

590
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 4: I've been a bad person. But if you can learn

591
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: from that, if you can grow from that, if you

592
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 4: can change your behavior, everyone deserves that chance because otherwise

593
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 4: how are we going to get better? Right? So I

594
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 4: have an unconfirmed report from a random person on Reddit

595
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: who said that they, you know, they personally know the

596
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 4: Prefer family and that according to them, that Mike has

597
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 4: changed his ways, that it actually really did, you know,

598
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 4: get to him and he understands. So I don't know

599
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 4: if that's true or not. I hope it's true because

600
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 4: I would I would hope that someone would choose to

601
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 4: be a better person. But yeah, I think it sucks

602
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: what happened, but we also needed to keep room in

603
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: our hearts for forgiveness and for giving people a second chance,

604
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 4: you know, to become a better person, but you don't

605
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 4: get a third chance.

606
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: Well, have you and Mike Prefer had any conversations since

607
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: that experience, I know we have not, Okay, And just

608
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: so people are aware that Mike Preefer is now on

609
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick's staff at the University of North Carolina, I

610
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: believe also as a special teams coach. Once you were

611
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 2: you know, obviously, as you wrote about, like Prefer was

612
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: making some homophobic statements that made you uncomfortable, and not

613
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: just you, because as you wrote, there were other players

614
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: who really, we're not comfortable with some of the things

615
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: that he was saying. When you're in that environment, especially

616
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: with talk about a NFL environment, you know, there's really

617
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like there's really any recourse if that's

618
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: the case, there's no it's not like you can go

619
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: to HR, like you cannot go to HR. Really nothing

620
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: that you can do as you're going through this process

621
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: though that did it begin to impact how you looked

622
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: at the Vikings as an organization, Yeah.

623
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 4: It kind of bummed me out, especially with how things

624
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 4: turned out because the owner himself, Ziggy Wolf, like he

625
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 4: had come up to me after that first piece had

626
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 4: gone viral and he was like, hey, you know what,

627
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 4: I think what you're doing is great, right, Like I

628
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: think you're doing the right thing. And you know, for

629
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 4: those who don't know Ziggi Wolf and his family, they're Jewish, right,

630
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 4: and they're a very family oriented company. And like I'll

631
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 4: never forget my rookie year when they first took over.

632
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 4: That was the whole love boat incident and like, oh

633
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: he lost his ship, like in a team meeting because

634
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 4: he's like, we are a family business, Like you reflect

635
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 4: upon us and you were pissing on people's lawns and

636
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 4: here I am my first year in the NFL, Like

637
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 4: is this normal. But yeah, so like you know, I'm

638
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 4: getting this message from Seggy, who you know, theoretically controls

639
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 4: the team, right like he's the guy who's in charge.

640
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 4: And then at the same time, the team lets me go.

641
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 4: And then after I sue them and we settled, and

642
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 4: they you know, they were required to put on an

643
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 4: LGBTQ summit to like, you know, get people aware of this.

644
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: Like they kind of dragged their feet on it, like

645
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 4: they didn't really make it happen until like thenk close

646
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 4: to the end of the five year deadline that they

647
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: had to actually do this thing. So I think there

648
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: are people within not just the Vikings organization, but within

649
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 4: all NFL organizations that want to do the right thing. Unfortunately,

650
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 4: I don't think enough of them are in positions of

651
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: power where they can do the right thing.

652
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people when they saw so many similarities

653
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: that what you have described as your experience that are

654
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: very similar to Colin Kaepernick's.

655
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: He also sued the.

656
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: League and they also settled his case. And for people

657
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 2: out there who may not know this is like it

658
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 2: is rare to get a w against you know, the

659
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: NFL at all, because there's a reason why they became

660
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,959
Speaker 2: as powerful as they've become. When you reflect back and

661
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: especially thinking about what happened to your employment opportunities after this,

662
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: how much do you think the lawsuit contributed to you

663
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: not you not ever getting another shot in the NFL, Like,

664
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: do you think had you not sued, that maybe you

665
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: might have had an opportunity to play again or did

666
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: you think that that was just going to be the

667
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: consequence regardless.

668
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 4: So the timeline on that, I didn't actually sue until

669
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: after I knew I wasn't going to play in the

670
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 4: league again. So basically what happened is the next year

671
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 4: I had the Raiders picked me up. So I was

672
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 4: with the Raiders during the preseason and that was just

673
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: a legit competition. I got beat out by Marquete King,

674
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: like he was the better punter than me. He's the

675
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: rookie with the big leg. I was the older vet,

676
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 4: and like, I can't complain about that because when I

677
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 4: came in the league, I was the rookie with the

678
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 4: big leg and you know, and I beat out the

679
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: older guy, Like that's that's kind of the nature of

680
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 4: the business. So I was like, you know that that

681
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 4: was fair. The Raiders treated me fine, I have no

682
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 4: complaints there. Then I had a couple of tryouts. One

683
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 4: was a call of the wild tryout with the Bears

684
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 4: where everyone there knew that we weren't going to get

685
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 4: the job. You know.

686
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 5: It's one of those where the punter has a bad

687
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 5: game the week before and like we're going to bring

688
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 5: in six guys and we're all just like, none of

689
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 5: us are getting hired, especially because it was I want

690
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,719
Speaker 5: to say, it was like thirty mile an hour wins

691
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 5: coming through and so they have this out here punting

692
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,959
Speaker 5: and like it's going fifteen yards against the wind in

693
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 5: like eighty yards with it.

694
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 4: I'm like, you cannot judge anyone's capabilities on today. But

695
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 4: the one that really made me aware that, like, I'm

696
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 4: not going to play in the league ever again was

697
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: I had to try out with the Cincinnati Bengals. That

698
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 4: was after Ken Huber had his job broken on Sunday

699
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 4: Night Football. I think it was a blindside hit on

700
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 4: a pun return. And it's funny because I was actually

701
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 4: in Minnesota for that game because I was being honored

702
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: for the Metrodome All twenty five years team as the

703
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 4: best hunner for the Fighters. So I was at a

704
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 4: restaurant with some friends and watching, you know, they had

705
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: the game on on the TVs and I saw the

706
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: hit happen. I'm like, oh shit, Like the Bengals are

707
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 4: probably going to call me tomorrow morning and asked me

708
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 4: to come out, you know, to try out. And sure enough, yeah,

709
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 4: they called me up the next morning. I'm like, yes,

710
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 4: I can make it. I just need some cleats. It's

711
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 4: like I was, I was really planning on this that happen.

712
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 4: So I went and did that tryout and felt like,

713
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: I like that I had won it because they they

714
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 4: weren't looking for a replacement for Hubert, you know, they

715
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 4: were just looking for a veteran guy to finish out

716
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 4: the season. They had playoff aspirations. I think they were

717
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 4: either like in the lead for their division or like,

718
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 4: you know, they were going to be a wild card.

719
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: They needed someone who could directional punt, which I showed,

720
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 4: you know, obviously I could do that because I'd been

721
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 4: doing it for a while with the Vikings. And then yeah,

722
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 4: they didn't go with me. So I was like, Okay,

723
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 4: maybe they just saw something in someone else. The guy

724
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 4: they went with, he had chanked a couple punts in

725
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 4: the tryouts. They cut him after two weeks because he

726
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 4: shanked a couple puns during the games. And then they

727
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 4: picked up Zultan Mesco, and you know, Zulton's great dude,

728
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 4: He's also a really good punter. Promised Zultan Mesco wasn't

729
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 4: at the tryout, So I'm like, okay, so if you're

730
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 4: going with the guy who wasn't at the tryout, and

731
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 4: you've already seen what I can do, and this is

732
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 4: literally the best case scenario for me. I'm not an

733
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 4: NFL punter anymore, because like, if I can't get this job,

734
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: then there is no chance for me to punt in

735
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: the NFL. And that was where I was like, Okay,

736
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 4: well that's the case, and I want people to know

737
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 4: here is what happened. And that's that's when I wrote

738
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: the second deadsmin piece. And then that's when I filed

739
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 4: suit against the team and then we ended up saddling.

740
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: But that has got to be sort of heavy to

741
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 2: deal with, is you know, you your NFL exit, and

742
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 2: I get it.

743
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: Players can never control how you leave the game, like

744
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: you just can't. But you als wasn't due to injury.

745
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't due to the fact that you just weren't

746
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: good anymore.

747
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: It was literally because you chose it, you chose to

748
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: take a stance against something.

749
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: How did that emotionally register for you?

750
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 4: It sucked. My wife was pretty pissed about it. I

751
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: think she probably is still pissed about it. It's and

752
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 4: it sucks because, you know, looking at the career, the

753
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: traditional career of punters and kickers is that usually once

754
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 4: you make it past those first two or three years,

755
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 4: you know, you're gonna play for like anywhere from twelve

756
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 4: to fifteen, right Like, That's that's the typical career punter path.

757
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 4: And I was looking forwards to you know, signing another contract,

758
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 4: you know, to playing for another like four to eight

759
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 4: years in the league, because that's that's what I felt

760
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 4: I had left in me, Like I felt like I

761
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 4: could still perform at that level. So yeah, it was

762
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 4: just it sucked. But at the same time, when I

763
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 4: look at everything that happened in terms of Minnesota actually

764
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 4: banning that marriage amendment, in terms of same sex marriage

765
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 4: actually becoming legal at the federal level, you know, six

766
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 4: months later, it's like, well it was worth it, right,

767
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 4: Like it was, you know, I set out to accomplish

768
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 4: something to help other people accomplish something, and we did it.

769
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 4: So you know, yeah, I would have liked to play

770
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 4: more football, but I would much rather live in a

771
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 4: society that allows people to be who they are, even

772
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 4: if it comes at the cost of some of my

773
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 4: football career days, at.

774
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: Least from what I read and you can clarify with

775
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 2: then that is true, is that you didn't receive any

776
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: money for that settlement.

777
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: Is that correct? No, you didn't.

778
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I made it very clear upfront that the whole

779
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 4: reason why I was so the team was it wasn't

780
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 4: to try to get any wages for me. It was

781
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 4: to show that if you do this, there will be

782
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 4: a cost, and like that it's not right to do this,

783
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: you should not hold this position and that and because

784
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: the other thing is again like even though I only

785
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 4: played eight years in the NFL, like, I still made

786
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 4: enough money where I like, I live pretty modestly. I

787
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: don't need a lot of things, Like I don't have

788
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 4: to buy the latest expensive car pretty much. The only

789
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 4: thing I need is like a somewhat up to date

790
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 4: gaming laptop. That's my major expense. But yeah, so it's

791
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 4: it's I knew I would be okay, like even if

792
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 4: I never played again. And so it's like, I don't

793
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 4: want your money. I want you to understand what you

794
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 4: did was wrong. And I feel like that helps get

795
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 4: the message across that like, I'm not trying to make

796
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 4: this about me. I'm trying to make this about the

797
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 4: issue at hand, which is you can't discriminate against people,

798
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 4: Like that's not what America should be about.

799
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 2: Now, you were years before Michael Sam got drafted and

800
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: played in the NFL. You know, Michael Sam being an

801
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: out player. Who was I believe I think he's drafted

802
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 2: by it.

803
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 4: The rams, It like the seventh round.

804
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: I want to like the seventh round.

805
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: Uh, given your experience in the locker room, you know

806
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: you you you know these players. Do you think the

807
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 2: NFL because there was some there was some definitely some

808
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: awkward moments in terms of the coverage of Michael Sam

809
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: and everything else. But do you think the NFL is

810
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: I hate to use this word, but I'm gonna use

811
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: it for being not as eloquent as I want to

812
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: be in this moment. Is the NFL ready to have

813
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 2: you know, sort of out players? I mean, I know

814
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 2: there are a couple in the league. I'm forgetting his name.

815
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 2: He plays for the Raiders.

816
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 4: Uh. Yeah, he's a defensive defensive lineman.

817
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: Right, But do you think that this is a league

818
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: that has now culturally come to the point where this

819
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: is fine if we have gay players who are playing

820
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: in the NFL.

821
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: I think it's approaching that point. I don't think it's

822
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 4: quite at that point yet, because a lot of the

823
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 4: same ownership that was there when Michael Sam was coming

824
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: into the league is still the same ownership now. And unfortunately,

825
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 4: with the way our current political climate is unfolding it,

826
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 4: they might see it as a you know, a reason

827
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 4: for them to go back to the way things were

828
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 4: instead of, oh, we've you know, we've covered this ground.

829
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 4: Let's not do that again. And and I And it

830
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 4: sucks for Michael Sam that he had to be the

831
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 4: first guy, right because like it's it's always hard to

832
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 4: be the first guy, And like, I'm very thankful that

833
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 4: he was the first guy though, because you know, then

834
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 4: he does clear the path for other people, right, Like

835
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 4: he does make it a little bit easier for the

836
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: next guy to be Like, Okay, you know what, I

837
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 4: can be who I am, And I'll never forget I

838
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 4: was talking with a Sarah Tula. He's another defensive line

839
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 4: he played for I think the Falcons and the Packers

840
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 4: before my time, and he was telling me like he

841
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 4: was in the super Bowl, you know, playing playing in

842
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 4: the Super Bowl, and he would tense up and get

843
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 4: nervous whenever he made a sack and the crowd was

844
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 4: cheering because he's like, oh crap, what if they what

845
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 4: if they you know, what if they're yelling at me

846
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: for who I am? I'm like this, this is supposed

847
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 4: to be one of the greatest moments of your life.

848
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 4: And that is so unfair that like you can't enjoy

849
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 4: that because the league won't let you enjoy it because

850
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 4: they say who you are is not allowed. And like

851
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 4: that's that's what we all need to fight against, is

852
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: you know, so that people can be who they are

853
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 4: and they can enjoy those moments.

854
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: Carl Nassa, that's his name, who yes spand for the Raiders,

855
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: that's who I was thinking of.

856
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: Who is an out player?

857
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: Okay, Chris, that was one fight that you had hit

858
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: with the Minnesota when you were at Minnesota Vikings. And

859
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 2: now you're onto another fight where you're again using your

860
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: platform and this time getting arrested. So we're going to

861
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: take a very quick break and we come back. We're

862
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: going to find out all about Chris Cleoey, who is

863
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 2: once again teaching us what resistance really means.

864
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty five. Will be back in a moment.

865
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: So, Chris, because you learned your lesson and decided, you

866
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: know what resistance isn't for me, I can'd because you

867
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: definitely haven't learned your lesson, and it's probably a good

868
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: thing for the folks out there where you live in

869
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 2: Huntington Beach. So recently you took on the Huntington Beach

870
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: City Council and you engaged in what is an American right,

871
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: as you have pointed out, not just the right to

872
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: freedom of speech, but the right to civil disobedience. And

873
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: all of this is over a plaque that I believe

874
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 2: that they wanted to hang in the library, and the

875
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: plaque was the MAGA slogan. I mean, they tried to

876
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: be kind of slick about it, so they used like

877
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: an acronym sort of, But it was the plaque commemorating

878
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: fifty years of Huntington Beach's Library, and on the plaque

879
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: it said Magical Alluring, galvanizing, adventurous. If anybody knows how

880
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: to spell that is maga maga okay so, And then

881
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: underneath the words on the plaque, it reads through hope

882
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: and change, our nation has built back better to the

883
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: golden era of making America great again.

884
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: So a lot of people.

885
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: Would see this and they say, eh, what's the big deal?

886
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: Why was this the fight against the city council that

887
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: you wanted to pick?

888
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: Why did you decide not? Today? I choose well non violence, right.

889
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, So this is actually a fight We've been having

890
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 4: here in the city for the past like two and

891
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 4: a half three years, and I've been at previous city

892
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 4: council meeting speaking out on this like this. This wasn't

893
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 4: just a one off where like, oh, Chris lost his

894
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 4: mind and then he got arrested, like it's this has

895
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 4: been an ongoing process, and it started with a member

896
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 4: of our city council, with Gracie Vandermark. She wanted to

897
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 4: ban a bunch of books from the children's section of

898
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 4: the library because she said they were inappropriate in pornography.

899
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 4: Vast majority of the books were LGBTQ plus issue books,

900
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 4: And so you know, immediately that pinged my radar is like, oh, hey, yeah,

901
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 4: like I should probably talk about this, but also like

902
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 4: I am a huge reader, Like I grew up reading

903
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 4: tons of books. I grew up in libraries, Like I

904
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 4: was fortunate enough that my parents had a ton of

905
00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 4: books in our house, Like we pretty much had our

906
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 4: own personal library. Like I have my own personal library now,

907
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: like hundreds of books. Like I love books. And a

908
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 4: library is supposed to be in a political space, supposed

909
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 4: to be a place where anyone can go in and

910
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 4: read and find knowledge. And honestly, it's the backbone of

911
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 4: the American education system because it allows kids who don't

912
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: have access to books at home a place where they

913
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 4: can go and learn and where they can discover things

914
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 4: that they might not otherwise know. And so when this

915
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 4: initial book banning was announced, me and a bunch of

916
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 4: other people in the city you know, showed up city

917
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: council meeting. He said, this is not okay. Like this

918
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 4: there already is a process for removing inappropriate content. We

919
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 4: know it works because Gracie used it. And the library said,

920
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 4: oh yeah, that book was filed inappropriately. Let's put it

921
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 4: in the right section. This is an early teen book,

922
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 4: Like this is a kid's book. So we had a process.

923
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 4: The librarians knew what they were doing, like there was

924
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 4: no reason to ban these books, So big up or

925
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 4: about that. Then Gracie came back and said, Okay, well

926
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 4: we're going to institute a board that judges the suitabile

927
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 4: of the books in the library. And everyone's like, well,

928
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 4: that's just a book banning board, Like you're just talking

929
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 4: about banning books another way. So there's a big outcry

930
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 4: about that. We circulated petition, got over sixteen thousand signatures.

931
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 4: That's one of our ballot measures that's coming up in

932
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 4: a special election in June is to get rid of

933
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: this book banning board. Then the city council tried to

934
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 4: privatize the library. They're like, oh, the library is not

935
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 4: being run efficiently. We want this group to come in

936
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 4: and run it. And then when you look at the

937
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 4: privatized group that runs it, they're notorious for just gutting libraries,

938
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 4: like they get rid of all their services, they cut

939
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 4: down their selections. And you know, a library isn't supposed

940
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 4: to be a for profit system. It's a service like

941
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 4: it helps people. It doesn't need to turn a profit.

942
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 4: So yeah, big outcry about that led to another petition.

943
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: That's the second ballot issue on our special election in June.

944
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: So up hunting Yeah, yeah, Huntington Beach. We're having to

945
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 4: go through some shit right now. And so so that

946
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 4: was the third part. And then the fourth part was

947
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 4: this plaque. And you know, the the initial plaque that

948
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 4: they propose, It didn't even have like the slogans on

949
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 4: the bottom. It just had the maga acrostic as the

950
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 4: biggest font on the plaque. And I'm sorry, if you're

951
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 4: honoring a library, maybe the library should be the biggest

952
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 4: font on the plaque, not your political message. And so

953
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 4: I actually went to the library Planning Commission meeting the

954
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 4: week before, whereas it wasn't just me, there's a bunch

955
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 4: of people there, ninety percent of the people there, including

956
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 4: some Trump supporters, who were like, we don't like this plaque.

957
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 4: It is ugly, it is stupid. We do not want

958
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 4: it in this fashion. We want to support our library,

959
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 4: we want to celebrate it, but we do not want

960
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 4: this on the plaque. Naturally, the Planning Commission ignored all

961
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 4: of us, rubber stamped it, sent it straight to the council,

962
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 4: which I knew they were going to do because you know, again,

963
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 4: we don't really have a functioning city government in Huntington

964
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 4: Beach right now, because a city council is supposed to

965
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 4: be a political like that's why you don't run with

966
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 4: a D or in R next to your name, Like

967
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 4: you're supposed to work for the good of the community

968
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 4: and you're supposed to do what's best for the entire city.

969
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 4: So anyways, they sent it to the city council. I

970
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 4: knew the city council was going to listen because I

971
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 4: have yet to see them actually debate any issue brought

972
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 4: up in public comment, Like they don't. They just don't

973
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 4: listen to people. They have their agenda, they want to

974
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 4: do what they're going to do. And again that's not

975
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 4: a functional government. So is at that point where it's like, okay, well,

976
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 4: I really want to point out that what maggot stands for.

977
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 4: Here's what it stands for. You know, it is explicitly

978
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 4: a Nazi movement. It is explicitly on American It is

979
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 4: like the worst parts of humanity in it. By putting

980
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 4: that on our library like that, that's telling everyone who

981
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 4: comes to our city, this is what Huntington Beach stands for.

982
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 4: And then I was like, and I want to do

983
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 4: something more. I want people to know that we're not

984
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 4: being listened to. So the next step is peaceful civil disobedience,

985
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 4: because this is what I had been wanting to see

986
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 4: from my elected officials for because this happened back in February,

987
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 4: like for a month straight, I was like, where are

988
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 4: our John Lewis's right, Like, where is our good trouble?

989
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 4: Where are our senators in Congress people who are blocking

990
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: DOGE from getting into buildings or pushing past DOGE to

991
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 4: find out like what they're doing with our social security

992
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 4: information or what's going on in the trade. Like that's

993
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 4: that's what our elected officials are supposed to do. And

994
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 4: so I've always firmly believed if I'm going to ask

995
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 4: someone to do something, I have to be willing to

996
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 4: do the same thing. So I was like, well, if

997
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 4: you're not going to do it, I guess I have

998
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 4: to show you how to do it again. And so

999
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 4: that led to me being like, Okay, well guess I'm

1000
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 4: going to go get arrested and so yeah, so then

1001
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 4: that clip went viral and yeah, certainly sparked some attention,

1002
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 4: and they passed the plaque anyways, they don't care.

1003
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're we passed the plaque anyway.

1004
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's a and then so the whole thing.

1005
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 4: So the thing you read on the bottom, that mashup

1006
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 4: of kind of like it's Obama, you know, Obama slogan,

1007
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 4: Biden slogan, and then Trump's slogan. And the point is

1008
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 4: it's not that we want the We don't want fairness

1009
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 4: in our political slogans on the library plaque. We don't

1010
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 4: want any political slogans on the library plaque, Like we

1011
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 4: want the library to be in a political public space

1012
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 4: because that's what it's supposed to be.

1013
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: So, because you went in with this intention, got to know,

1014
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: what did your wife think of about this?

1015
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 4: So I'd actually told her, I'm like, I'm probably gonna

1016
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 4: get arrested. She's like, yeah, sure, because you know, she's like, yeah, yeah,

1017
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 4: you talked a big game. I was like, no, I'm

1018
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 4: pretty sure, right, Yeah, But when it happens, she's like, yeah,

1019
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 4: that sounds about right. She knows she married yeah exactly,

1020
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 4: She's like, yeah, that's my husband.

1021
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: So what has the reaction been in your community that

1022
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: you chose to take this stand?

1023
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so people who have talked to me all for it,

1024
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 4: like they're like, yes, we're tired of the city council,

1025
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 4: Like we're tired of them, you know, essentially not representing

1026
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 4: the city right because you know, to be fair to

1027
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 4: Huntington Beach, Huntington Beach does lean conservative like it is

1028
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 4: it is a fairly conservative city. However, it's the small

1029
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 4: sea conservative, like we don't want to pay as many taxes,

1030
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 4: we don't want people to build houses in our backyards

1031
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 4: like that. That's that's basically Huntington Beach conservatism. I don't

1032
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 4: think our conservative people realized when they voted for the

1033
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 4: city council they were hitching their wagon to the Nazi train.

1034
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 4: Like that's that, and now it's our job to make

1035
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 4: them aware that, yeah, you you teamed up with the Nazis,

1036
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 4: so like you kind of need to come back over

1037
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 4: to the American side otherwise you're enabling the Nazis. And so, yeah,

1038
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 4: it's been very supportive. However, there is a regressive element.

1039
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 4: I did get fired from my job as a freshman

1040
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 4: football coach at Edison High School because they deliberately took

1041
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 4: a blue Sky post out of context and called the

1042
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 4: school and said that I was making threats the posting question.

1043
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 4: We had recorded a video asking people to not review

1044
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 4: bomb the library because like people were like, oh, you know,

1045
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna go review bomb the library, like,

1046
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 4: you know, make it, you know, lower the ratings so

1047
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 4: everyone hates it. I'm just like, don't do that. Like,

1048
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 4: the library is a great place. We don't want you

1049
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: to do that. If you're gonna review bomb something, go

1050
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 4: find where the council member work and you know, bomb

1051
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 4: there instead. And so my post was like I can't

1052
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 4: believe I have to say this, but please don't attack

1053
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 4: the library. You know, find out where the council members

1054
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 4: are working and blow those places up instead. Quote posted

1055
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 4: with the actual video where we explicitly reference review bombing.

1056
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 4: I got a call from a Huntington Beach police detective

1057
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 4: that claimed that I was inciting violence and I was

1058
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 4: making violent threats. I'm just like, no, I'm not, like,

1059
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: like I'm talking about review bombing. She did not seem

1060
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 4: interested in the context of the of the post. So

1061
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,479
Speaker 4: I'm like, Okay, if it'll make you feel better, because

1062
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 4: I want to keep my community safe, I'll take the

1063
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 4: post down right Like, because again I don't want violence

1064
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 4: in my community. I want peaceful civil disobedience so people

1065
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 4: understand what's happening. And then yeah, then the school called

1066
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 4: me in and said we have to let you go.

1067
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 4: We're getting too much attention. Notably, they did not say

1068
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 4: anything about violent threats, so at the time I'm pretty

1069
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 4: sure they were just like, oh, we're getting phone calls.

1070
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 4: We were just going to get rid of this guy, right,

1071
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 4: same as the NFL. They don't. They don't want the attention,

1072
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 4: you know. And it's and it's unfortunate because we're seeing

1073
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 4: that happen in institutions across America right now, you know,

1074
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 4: in higher education, with law firms, you know, with corporations.

1075
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 4: People are bending the need of fascism because they think

1076
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 4: it will save them and it won't. It's if you

1077
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 4: don't stand up to a bully, he's just going to

1078
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 4: keep taking everything you have until you have nothing left.

1079
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 4: So yes, I have faced personal repercussions for it. But again,

1080
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 4: at the same time, it's like, this is a message

1081
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 4: we need to be talking about. And this is arguably

1082
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: even more important than when I spoke out for LGBTQ

1083
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 4: plus rights, because this is the very fabric of our

1084
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 4: society like this, this is are we going to be

1085
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 4: American or not? Like will we have the ability to

1086
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 4: have free speech and to protest against things we disagree with?

1087
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: In this moment, I think a lot of people are

1088
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: evaluating and thinking about what's important. A lot of the

1089
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 2: things that you just mentioned, we just you know, recently

1090
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 2: there was a hands off protest where you saw thousands

1091
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: of people nationwide who were participating and showing their displeasure

1092
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 2: about this administration, about the authoritarianism in this country, like

1093
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: all those things that you just mentioned.

1094
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: I think capitulation.

1095
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: We see a lot of that, and that has sort

1096
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 2: of been as you just said, that's been the kind

1097
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: of the default that people are just capitulating, often in advance,

1098
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: not necessarily even being asked to. They're just viewing it. Yeah,

1099
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: I mean they're absolutely doing it. So for you, given

1100
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 2: what you've already risked, You've lost a career over this,

1101
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: You've lost now a job over this, what is it

1102
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 2: that keeps you continuing this fight? Knowing now even though

1103
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 2: you've experienced all these consequences, A lot of people would

1104
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 2: have just been like fuck it, Like what am I

1105
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: doing this for?

1106
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: If y'all not willing to fight.

1107
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 2: So what is it that keeps you engaged in the fight,

1108
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of people need to understand

1109
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: what that is as they try to evaluate what's their

1110
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: own level of resistance.

1111
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 4: Right. So for me, it's a couple things. The primary

1112
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 4: one is that, like, I actually am a proud American, right,

1113
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 4: Like I want America to live up to the dreams

1114
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 4: and ideals that were stated in the founding of our country. Now,

1115
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 4: granted those were not achieved even at the founding of

1116
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 4: our country because our founders were slave owners, so like

1117
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 4: we still have to deal with that. We haven't dealt

1118
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 4: with that in a meaningful way. And actually I'll get

1119
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 4: to that in just a bit. But the thing is,

1120
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 4: like I want to be proud of my country, and

1121
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 4: what Americans do we show up for other people? Like

1122
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 4: we welcome in the tired and the poor and the

1123
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 4: huddled masses yearning to be free, right, Like we have

1124
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 4: the Declaration of Independence that everyone deserves the right to life, liberty,

1125
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 4: and the pursuit of happiness. And yeah, we haven't achieved it,

1126
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 4: Like we haven't had that for everyone. But I think

1127
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 4: it's a dream worth pursuing. And that's That's what drives

1128
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 4: me because that's the country I want to live in,

1129
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 4: and if I don't fight for it, eventually they're going

1130
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 4: to come for me. Like and and if someone's watching

1131
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 4: this and you think, oh, why should I stick up

1132
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 4: for other people? Right, Like I can tell you you

1133
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 4: can fight for purely selfish reasons, Like you can fight

1134
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 4: completely to protect yourself, because if you don't fight now,

1135
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 4: eventually they will get to you because you're either gonna

1136
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 4: do something that they don't like or you're going to

1137
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 4: turn into a person that you don't like. So it

1138
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 4: is incumbent upon us to act now because the longer

1139
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 4: we wait, the harder it gets and the more damage happens.

1140
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's the big driver for me from a

1141
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 4: personal level. On a secondary level, it's because I can

1142
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 4: afford to do it right, Like I am a well off,

1143
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 4: heterosexual white man, Like I am the type of person

1144
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 4: who should be on the frontlines fighting because I am

1145
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 4: the type of person who can afford to absorb those blows.

1146
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 4: And we need more people like me on the front lines,

1147
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 4: Like we need more people like me joining in the

1148
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 4: resistance and saying no, I you know, even though this

1149
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 4: might be personally harmful to me. Even though this might

1150
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 4: impact my you know, my economic status or my job.

1151
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 4: I can afford to do it. I have enough money,

1152
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 4: Like I have enough to keep my family safe and secure.

1153
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 4: I need to step up for those who can't, because

1154
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 4: there are a lot of people who do want to

1155
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 4: be out there, but can't be out there because they

1156
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 4: are members of marginalized groups, because they are at risk

1157
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 4: of being deported or sent to jail. Like that's that's

1158
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 4: why we need to step up. And you know, to

1159
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 4: be perfectly frank, donald Trump is a white person problem,

1160
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 4: like he is a white person problem we made Donald Trump.

1161
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 4: We need to clean up our mess. So that means

1162
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 4: you need to show up to protest, You need to

1163
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 4: show up to your city council meetings. You need to

1164
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 4: contact your elected officials, and you need to tell them

1165
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 4: we are angry as hell about what this country is

1166
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 4: turning into and we need to do something about it.

1167
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: A lot of we were always wrestling with this question

1168
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: is about whether or not athletes are obligated to use

1169
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: their platform, use their position, their status, their wealth, as

1170
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: you just pointed out, in order to speak of for

1171
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 2: those who don't have the same resources or access. Where

1172
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: do you stand with how athletes can play a part

1173
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 2: in this larger political picture.

1174
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so a lot of it is really just using

1175
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 4: your voice, right, because one of the biggest problems we're

1176
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 4: also facing is that people just aren't politically knowledgeable about

1177
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 4: what's going on. I mean, I think it was what

1178
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 4: like half of the country didn't even vote in our

1179
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 4: most recent election. It's like Donald Trump doesn't have a mandate,

1180
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 4: Like he didn't even win with a majority. He won

1181
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 4: with a plurality. Like there's you know, maybe like twenty

1182
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 4: five thirty percent of the country actually voted, you know,

1183
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 4: for him to do what he's doing. And it's like,

1184
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 4: we need those people who don't understand and why this

1185
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 4: is important to become engaged. And even if it's just

1186
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 4: for this particular moment, we need you to understand that

1187
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 4: the idea of America is under threat and that it

1188
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 4: is an existential threat and if you don't show up,

1189
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 4: then you are going to lose what makes America America.

1190
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 4: And you know, athletes can help with that because a

1191
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 4: lot of those people who aren't politically engaged watch sports, right,

1192
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 4: you know, they'll watch the Super Bowl, they'll tune into

1193
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 4: the World Series. You know, they'll watch the Stanley Cup.

1194
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 4: So athletes have that platform to reach those people who

1195
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 4: might not otherwise see that information. And as as Spider

1196
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 4: Man said very famously, you know, as Uncle Ben said, right,

1197
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 4: with great power comes great responsibility. And you know what,

1198
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 4: you have great power, here's the responsibility part.

1199
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 2: A lot of people listening to this might have this question,

1200
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: because it certainly has popped in my mind considering the

1201
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 2: issues that you're having there in Huntington Beach with the

1202
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: city council and what they've hitched their wagonto. I'm not

1203
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: familiar with how this city council you know, is decided,

1204
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: but have you thought about running for the city council

1205
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 2: there in Huntington Beach?

1206
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I've been asked that a lot. I'm still

1207
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what the most effective use of

1208
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 4: my voice is going to be. And so, from a

1209
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 4: nuts and bolt standpoint, one of the big problems with

1210
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 4: Huntington Beach is that, unlike the cities surrounding us, we

1211
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 4: don't run off a precinct system. So you know, normally

1212
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 4: with the precingc system, you have individual areas and then

1213
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 4: council members are elected from those areas, we have a

1214
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 4: at large system, which means whoever the top three or

1215
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 4: top four vote getters are depending on election cycle, those

1216
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 4: are the people who go in. Huntington Beach also has

1217
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 4: a problem in that the Calvary Chapel Megachurch has a

1218
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 4: couple really big branches in Huntington Beach, and the Calvary

1219
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 4: Chapel Megachurch has decided that they want to play politics,

1220
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 4: so we need to a start taxing them if they

1221
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 4: want to play politics. And b people need to understand

1222
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 4: that right now, the agenda being implemented in Huntington Beach

1223
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 4: is not a Huntington Beach agenda. It is a mega agenda,

1224
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 4: and it is a specific religious agenda, more specifically, a

1225
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 4: white nationalist Christian reallyious agenda, which I know a lot

1226
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 4: of folks don't agree with because there are a lot

1227
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 4: of different flavors of Christianity. So I'm again to make

1228
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 4: a long story short, I am thinking about it. The

1229
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 4: problem is I'm gonna have to compete with a lot

1230
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 4: of money and a lot of money coming in from

1231
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 4: outside of state. Because our most recent city council election

1232
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 4: our fourth place. So the first runner out, Natalie Moser,

1233
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 4: she raised I think it was around like two hundred

1234
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 4: and seventy thousand dollars to run for a city council seat,

1235
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 4: which is kind of ridiculous for a beach town. You

1236
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 4: should be spending maybe like thirty or forty rand like

1237
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 4: this should be your election you know war chest. But

1238
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 4: that's what we have to compete against. And that even

1239
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 4: that wasn't enough because you know, we just we have

1240
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 4: all this money flowing into the city because MAGA and

1241
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 4: this specific church group, they want to use this as

1242
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 4: their you know, sort of test bed, their you know,

1243
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 4: their breeding ground to then start expanding to other cities

1244
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 4: in the state. And we're already seeing that happen. One

1245
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 4: of the very first things Huntington Beach was a flag

1246
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 4: ban on the pride flag said, you know, you can't

1247
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 4: lie the Pride flag getting more at city facilities. That

1248
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 4: was kind of their starting point. Recently, I think it

1249
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 4: was about a week ago, week and a half ago.

1250
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 4: I had to go to also Jeho because they were

1251
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 4: considering a similar Pride flag ban, and I was like, hey,

1252
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 4: this is how it started in Huntington Beach, and you

1253
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 4: do not want to end up like Huntington Beach because

1254
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 4: it's bad for your city. It's bad for the business

1255
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 4: of your city. It's going to draw white nationalists and

1256
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 4: white supremacists to your city and people will just stop

1257
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 4: spending money there. So, like from a business perspective, you

1258
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 4: do not want to go down our path because we

1259
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 4: are losing business over this. Like I've heard from multiple

1260
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 4: people that are like, we just won't go to Huntington

1261
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 4: Beach anymore because there's a racist problem here. And Huntington

1262
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 4: Beach has always had that history. I grew up in

1263
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 4: Seal Beach, which is like almost right next door, and

1264
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 4: it's there's a long and sordid past in the Huntington

1265
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 4: b city history. But like it was moving in the

1266
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 4: right direction. Now it's moving back in the wrong direction.

1267
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 4: And so we need folks to understand that if you

1268
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 4: move in that direction, there is a cost to that.

1269
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 4: There's a financial cost to that, and it's not good

1270
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 4: for your city.

1271
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 1: What's your relationship like with football now?

1272
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 2: You are obviously coaching, but no knowing you know how

1273
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,120
Speaker 2: the league and somewhat characterize it as turning that they

1274
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 2: turn their back on you.

1275
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: How does that you know? How do you view football now?

1276
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 4: So the thing for me is that I like, I

1277
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 4: was never really a big sports fan because whenever I

1278
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 4: had TV time, I wanted to play video games. Like

1279
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 4: that was, I never really wanted to watch sports. And

1280
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 4: then you know, when I when I was interested in sports,

1281
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm just going to go play sports, right like,

1282
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 4: because I do something. That being said, like I have

1283
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 4: a complicated relationship with the NFL and that, like, I

1284
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 4: think you can learn a lot of really good things

1285
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 4: from football, right Like, it teaches teamwork, It teaches the

1286
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 4: value of struggle, right of overcoming adversity, and of finding

1287
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 4: your limits and then pushing past what you thought your

1288
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 4: limits were to find your actual limits. So like, I

1289
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 4: do think there is a value to football. Unfortunately, I

1290
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 4: don't think the NFL in its current form is something

1291
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 4: that that is ethically like sustainable. I mean you just

1292
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 4: look at the head injuries, even even with the new technology,

1293
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 4: even with like the you know, the changes to the

1294
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 4: kickoff roles stuff like that, is you can't when two

1295
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 4: people hit each other, you can't cushion the inside of

1296
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 4: someone's skull, and so you'll never be able to stop concussions,

1297
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 4: and you know, you're essentially causing brain damage to the

1298
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 4: people playing the game. And the problem is that NFL

1299
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:16,919
Speaker 4: players are compensated for that brain damage, right Like it's

1300
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 4: you know, it's hopefully it's enough because a lot of

1301
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 4: guys are going to be facing those issues when they

1302
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 4: get older. But ninety nine percent of the kids who

1303
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 4: play football in high school aren't ever going to go

1304
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 4: on to college. Ninety nine percent of kids who play

1305
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 4: football in college aren't going to go on to the NFL.

1306
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 4: So we're causing brain damage to teenagers as our feeder system,

1307
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 4: you know, to make the NFL a thing. So, you know,

1308
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 4: I I'm heartened by the NFL moving to more of

1309
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 4: a flag football model. I think that that would be

1310
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 4: a good a good step forward in terms of the

1311
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 4: high school system. But yeah, in terms of the league itself,

1312
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 4: it's just it's tough to watch, like knowing what I know,

1313
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 4: and like, you know, just knowing how guys turn out

1314
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 4: after they're done playing. Although I do have a soft

1315
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 4: spot in my heart for Vikings fans because I know

1316
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 4: we always let your hearts down in a wide variety

1317
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 4: of entertaining ways. I really would like to see them

1318
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 4: win a Super Bowl at least once, just for all

1319
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 4: the fans out there.

1320
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 2: You know, we saw what happened to you, We saw

1321
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: what happened happened to Colin Kaepernick.

1322
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: In your mind. Has the NFL kind of put it

1323
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: into resistance.

1324
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they're certainly trying to. I mean, I don't

1325
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 4: know if you saw it, but apparently we solved racism

1326
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 4: because you.

1327
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 2: Know, they put it in the end zone and it

1328
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 2: was gone right in racism like, oh.

1329
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 4: Snap is over hanging the mission accomplished banner?

1330
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.

1331
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think I think unfortunately the end like

1332
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 4: I said earlier, like I've been saying, the NFL is

1333
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 4: run by rich Old Whiteman, and they think the prevailing

1334
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 4: political wins are ones where anything they view as diverse

1335
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 4: or equity or integration or like anything that's going to

1336
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 4: respect progressivism is not going to be allowed. And so

1337
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 4: they're capitulating in advance because they don't want Trump to

1338
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 4: send his people after them, which again I think is

1339
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 4: really cowardly, especially from a league that employed that the

1340
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 4: majority of its employees are black men. Like that's that's

1341
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 4: a real kind of like, Okay, we're getting back to

1342
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 4: the plantation mentality of yeah you can you know, you

1343
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 4: can sweat and kill yourself for us, but we don't

1344
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 4: really care about you as people.

1345
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 2: All right, Chris, I'm going to end this podcast by

1346
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: asking you what I call the messy question.

1347
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: This is where we make headlines.

1348
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure we made a lot already, but this is

1349
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 2: where we make headlines and uh, you know, sort of

1350
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 2: piss people off. I'm putting it all on your shoulders here, Chris.

1351
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 2: Who is the best punter in NFL history?

1352
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 4: Best punter in NFL history? Uh? God? So that's it?

1353
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 2: Is it guy Reggie Roby?

1354
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:45,439
Speaker 1: Is it Sammy Baugh?

1355
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 4: Like? Who is it?

1356
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: Give us your hot take about the best punter ever?

1357
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 3: Right?

1358
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 4: So that's actually a really difficult question to answer because

1359
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 4: it determined, like it depends on what you determine as best. Right,

1360
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 4: is it who kicked at the farthest, who had the

1361
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 4: highest hang time? You know, who is best at pinning

1362
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 4: people inside the twenty? Like it's I think Rey guy

1363
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 4: Reggie Roby. Definitely. I think Reggie Roby should be in

1364
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame. And then there's one other person

1365
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 4: that I think should be in the Hall of Fame,

1366
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 4: and he'll never get the attention he deserves. And that's

1367
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 4: Darren Bennett. Because Darren Bennett introduced the Aussi rules kick

1368
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 4: to the NFL, and every punter now uses the Ossi

1369
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 4: rules kick for plus fifty situations. And the Hall of

1370
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 4: Fame is about people who changed the game at their position, right,

1371
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 4: like these these are the people who legitimately changed the game.

1372
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 4: Darren Bennett legitimately changed the game of football. Like and yeah,

1373
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 4: I know it's punning, Like yeah, I know, most people

1374
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 4: don't care about punning, but like when you go back,

1375
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 4: like before Darren Bennett, everyone learned the coffin corner punt

1376
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 4: because that's all that we knew how to do. Like

1377
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 4: I used the coffin corner punt because that's all we

1378
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 4: knew how to do. And then when he introduced the

1379
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 4: Ossie rules punt, it's like, oh, hold up, this is

1380
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 4: just a better kick from every aspect. It's easier to use,

1381
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 4: you're less likely to put it in the end zone,

1382
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 4: you're less likely to shank it, and it changed that

1383
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 4: specific part of punning. So I think, I don't think.

1384
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 4: And Bennett's numbers were also good, like he was an

1385
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 4: all decade player for the Chargers. This was after I

1386
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 4: think it was like a twelve year Aussie rules football career.

1387
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 4: The dude was already beat up, you know what I mean,

1388
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 4: came over. So yeah, I would like to see Reggie

1389
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 4: Robi and Darren Bennett in the Hall of Fame. I

1390
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 4: think in terms of best punter overall, Like again, it

1391
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 4: depends on era, depends on what you're looking for and

1392
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 4: h Thomas more staid he was so Normally, when you're punting,

1393
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 4: you have three things that you're trying to do. You're

1394
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 4: trying to get distance, You're trying to get hangtime, and

1395
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 4: trying to get location. Generally you're gonna have to settle

1396
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 4: for two of those things. So if you're going for

1397
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 4: distance and hangtime, you're really laying into the ball. You're

1398
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 4: not really sure where it's going to go. Right. If

1399
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 4: you're going for distance and location, you're driving, it's gonna

1400
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 4: be more a line drive. You're gonna lose hangtime. If

1401
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 4: you're going for hangtime and location, well, now you're sacrificing

1402
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 4: distance because you know you're making sure that goes there more.

1403
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 4: Stead could do all three.

1404
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 2: Really the final final question give me because now you

1405
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 2: probably look at when you played and you see about

1406
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 2: how they're doing kickoffs now and everything. You're like, wow,

1407
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 2: that's different and right right, but give me your best

1408
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 2: or most memorable.

1409
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: On a punt return. You got your shit rock story.

1410
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 4: I got two of them. They are fantastic. So the

1411
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 4: first one was my second year in the league. That

1412
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 4: was so lucky me. My second year in the league

1413
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 4: was Devin Hester's rookie year and he went to the

1414
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 4: Chicago Bears, so I get to face him twice a year.

1415
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 4: And so we're playing in Chicago and you know, just

1416
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 4: a brutally cold day, like I think it was like

1417
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 4: five degrees on the field and with windshield it was

1418
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 4: like negative two or negative three or something. And you know,

1419
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 4: as a dumb ass, young you know NFL player, I

1420
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 4: was like, I'm not gonna worst lee heuse, I'm gonna

1421
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 4: tough it out, and it's like I've made a terrible mistake.

1422
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 4: So anyways, like he'd already I think returned one for

1423
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 4: a touchdown at this game, and so I hit one.

1424
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 4: It was actually a decent punt, like I hit it,

1425
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 4: I hit it to the right. Everyone's running down. He

1426
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 4: starts coming to our left, so you know everyone's tracking.

1427
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 4: Then he cuts back to go back to the right,

1428
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 4: so I turn right to start tracking and Brendan I

1429
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 4: am a dajo like his special teams as for the Bears,

1430
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 4: for a long time linebacker. Also, you see, like I,

1431
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 4: he had taken like a fifteen yard run up from

1432
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 4: the side, and he cleaned my clock right as I

1433
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 4: turned to the side, like I had just enough time

1434
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 4: to get my hands up like that, and I thought

1435
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 4: I had broken my wrist. He jammed and moved back

1436
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 4: in my chest. And so we were watching film on Monday.

1437
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 4: It was one of those just like ooh, because you

1438
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 4: see him just lining it up and it's like, oh man,

1439
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 4: that one, Yeah, that one. I was just miserable. And

1440
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 4: then the second one. We were playing in Jacksonville, so

1441
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 4: this was God. I forget when this was. It might

1442
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 4: have been like two thousand and nine, two thousand and eight,

1443
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine. So we called directional punt right.

1444
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 4: I hit the ball directional punt right. Everyone runs to

1445
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 4: the left. I'm not sure why. So I've got the

1446
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 4: returner streaking down the sideline. I'm coming from the side

1447
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 4: to try to get to him. And then the wing

1448
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 4: or the outside the one who had rushed our wing

1449
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 4: had peeled back to come this way. So like returner

1450
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 4: coming like this, I'm coming across blockers coming up towards me.

1451
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 4: I'm right about to make the tackle and he sticks

1452
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 4: his shoulder pad right in my sternum. I go flying

1453
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 4: like three yards in the air. And then I'm kind

1454
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 4: of like stuck on the ground because i can't Breathe

1455
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 4: like literally knocked the wind out of me. So like

1456
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 4: this is like I'm posing for you know, pay me

1457
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 4: like one of your French girls.

1458
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: Right, it was like you were buffer.

1459
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, Like I was stuck. And then, to

1460
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 4: make mad is worse, one of the Jacksonville's players. The

1461
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 4: dude wasn't even dressed out, like he was in the

1462
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 4: warm ups, like he wasn't dressed out for the game.

1463
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 4: He comes over and does the Friday routine. You got

1464
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 4: knocked the.

1465
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 2: Fuck out, and I'm just like, meanwhile, you're like.

1466
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 4: My is like and then so and at the time

1467
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 4: our special teams coach, I think it's Paul Ferarum. He's

1468
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 4: panicking on the sideline. Long Wall told me this later.

1469
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 4: So Ryan Longwell, our kicker. He's coming up the long Well.

1470
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 4: He's like, long, well, Long Well, you gotta get ready.

1471
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 4: They just killed LUI.

1472
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: Wow, time dead right.

1473
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 4: So thankfully, like I was fine, you know, I just

1474
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 4: need to get my win back in me and like finish, finish.

1475
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 4: The rest of the game, had a really good game,

1476
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 4: because now I was like extra motor, it'd be like

1477
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 4: fuck you kick it even harder. But yeah, those are

1478
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 4: my I got rocked stories, oh.

1479
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: Man, So that that spirit of resistance there even then, well, Chris,

1480
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 2: I want to thank you so much for joining me

1481
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 2: and for taking the time out and appreciate you sharing

1482
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: your journey and your story. And for a lot of

1483
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: people out there again who are trying to figure out

1484
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 2: what resistance looks like for them, I guess thank you

1485
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 2: for providing them with a model of what it can

1486
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 2: look like, especially at the local level, where probably a

1487
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 2: lot of us need to be more engaged in our

1488
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 2: communities and understand how the national political movement is infiltrating

1489
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: what we're seeing in our neighborhoods and in our backyard.

1490
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: So thank you and keep up the good fight.

1491
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 4: Thanks. Yeah, And if anyone is, you know, sort of

1492
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 4: wondering how to get involved, it's really simple. Just show

1493
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 4: up to your city council meetings, like you whoever speaks

1494
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 4: during public comment, you really quickly figure out, Okay, who

1495
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 4: are the people that care about the issues that I

1496
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 4: care about? Then just go talk to those people because

1497
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 4: generally they'll be part of some sort of organization or

1498
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 4: some sort of grassroots movements and they can give you

1499
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 4: whatever information you need to know about how you can

1500
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 4: get involved. So all you got news is show up

1501
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 4: like at the local level, becau. That's where everything starts.

1502
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: All right, that's a good word. One more segment to go,

1503
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: and you guys know what that means.

1504
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:24,759
Speaker 2: I got questions to answer up next, your viewer slash

1505
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 2: listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up

1506
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 2: next on the final segment of spolatives. All right, y'all

1507
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 2: know what time it is time for me to answer

1508
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 2: your questions. And this one comes from Trinidad James Baldwin,

1509
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 2: great name via threads Trinidad James Baldwin asked. Taylor Jenkins

1510
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 2: proved himself, through injury suspensions, to be a very good coach.

1511
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,480
Speaker 2: John Morant has proven to be extremely talented but unreliable

1512
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 2: on and off the court.

1513
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: Jenkins was fired. Morant makes shooting gestures.

1514
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,679
Speaker 2: Step can NBA franchises afford to support coaching and team

1515
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: stability over talent, especially in small markets. Well, thank you

1516
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 2: for your question, and of course you're referring to Memphis

1517
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 2: Grizzlies head coach or former head coach.

1518
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 1: I should say here's the thing.

1519
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 2: There's been an interesting trend lately that I've noticed in

1520
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 2: the NBA where you are having coaches that seemingly have

1521
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,639
Speaker 2: accomplished enough to warrant some kind of job security, they're

1522
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 2: being fired. The Phoenix Suns just fired their third straight coach.

1523
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 2: They have fired a coach every off.

1524
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: Season the last three years.

1525
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what that payroll of coaches is going

1526
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,799
Speaker 2: to look like right about now. So they recently fired

1527
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 2: Mike Budenholzer, who used to coach with the Milwaukee Bucks

1528
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: where he won a title, right, and so you also

1529
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 2: have the different Nuggets who fired Mike Malone. It used

1530
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,480
Speaker 2: to be when you want an NBA championships, that guarantee

1531
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: that you would have some level of job security, but

1532
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 2: that isn't the case. And what I attribute a lot

1533
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,560
Speaker 2: of that to is a combination of un realistic expectations,

1534
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 2: the fact that you have a lot of owners who

1535
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 2: have put together rosters that maybe aren't prepared as much

1536
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 2: as they think to win in today's NBA. Let's look

1537
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 2: at Phoenix again a prime example. Then he said the

1538
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 2: largest payroll in the NBA. You would think that if

1539
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 2: you had a team with Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal and

1540
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 2: Devin Booker, that this should work in today's NBA, And

1541
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 2: it didn't, and it hasn't worked in a few seasons.

1542
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 2: So now thereforece with the decision about whether or not

1543
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 2: they should just blow up everything they have, And there

1544
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 2: are a lot of rumors already that Kevin Durant is

1545
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: once again going to be on the move, or should

1546
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 2: they continue down the path of trying to get some

1547
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 2: kind of free agent or some kind of big splash

1548
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,879
Speaker 2: and build their teams sort of on a shorter term basis.

1549
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 2: Either way, I think the main thing that's plaguing all

1550
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 2: of this coach instability is the fact that you have

1551
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,880
Speaker 2: a lot of teams right now who just simply aren't

1552
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 2: built to win, and a lot of organizations aren't willing

1553
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 2: to face that factor. Organizations aren't willing to face reality,

1554
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: and so when you look at the organizations that do win,

1555
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 2: you see a lot of the key elements and why

1556
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 2: they're successful.

1557
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 1: Culture, stability, consistency.

1558
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 2: Those are all the things that seemingly make up a

1559
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 2: team that is built to win, or at least built

1560
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 2: to compete and make the playoffs. I'm looking at a

1561
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 2: team like Houston, a lot of young stars, but they

1562
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 2: have a young core and most importantly, they have a

1563
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 2: team culture and golden state. Even though you know they're

1564
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 2: not in the upper echelon as it pertains to the

1565
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 2: playoff standings, They've had a persistent culture in that organization

1566
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:37,759
Speaker 2: for a long time.

1567
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:40,759
Speaker 1: The teams that lack culture are the teams that tend

1568
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: to not win. So maybe NBA.

1569
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 2: Teams should focus on that as opposed to focusing on

1570
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 2: other things like trying to have the flash years higher

1571
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 2: or the flashy is free agent. Focus on building the culture,

1572
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 2: and it feels like everything else kind of goes from there.

1573
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,840
Speaker 2: So Trinidad, James Baldwin, I want to thank you for

1574
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 2: your question. Now, if you have a question for me,

1575
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:07,879
Speaker 2: you can hit me up on social media or email.

1576
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm at Jamail Hill.

1577
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 2: Across all social media platforms, Twitter, Instagram, fan.

1578
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: Based, blue scuy and threads.

1579
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,719
Speaker 2: Please use the hashtags politics you also have the option

1580
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 2: of emailing me at Spolitics twenty twenty four at gmail

1581
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 2: dot com. You can also send me a video of

1582
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 2: your question, but please make sure it is thirty seconds

1583
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 2: or less. Don't forget to follow and subscribe to Spolitics

1584
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: on iHeart and follows Politics Pod on Instagram and TikTok.

1585
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 2: Politics is spelled s po l I ti CS. A

1586
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,560
Speaker 2: new episode of Spolitics drops every Thursday on iHeart Podcasts

1587
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics where

1588
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 2: sports and politics don't just mix, they matter. Spolitics is

1589
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 2: the production of iHeart Podcasts and the Unbothered Network. I'm

1590
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 2: your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoin. Lucas

1591
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 2: Heimen is head of audio and executive producer. Original music

1592
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,599
Speaker 2: first Politics provided by Kyle Viz from wiz FX