1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ethan Nadelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the show 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: where we talk about all things drugs. But any views 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: expressed here do not represent those of iHeart Media, Protozoa Pictures, 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: or their executives and employees. Indeed, as an inveterate contrarian, 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: I can tell you they may not even represent my own. 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: And nothing contained in this show should be used as 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: medical advice or encouragement to use any type of drug. Hello, 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Psychoactive listeners. Today's guest is of a sort of different 10 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: sort than we normally have. It is Senator Chuck Schumer, 11 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: the New York state senator who is currently the Senate 12 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: Majority Leader, which makes him, you know, basically one of 13 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: the three most powerful politicians in America, together with Nancy Pelosi, 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: the Speaker of the House, and Joe Biden, the President. 15 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: So I have to say I felt very fortunate to 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: be able to get Senator Schumer on Psychoactive, but he 17 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: was willing, and I think it's interesting that in the 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: midst of everything else that's going on in the country, 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: with debt limits and infrastructure bills, and UH voting rights 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: and a host of other issues that for the Senate 21 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: Majority leader to take the time to talk about marijuana 22 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: is a bit stunning, and that's one of the reasons 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk with him, and also to find 24 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: out more about what's going on from his perspective about 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: how marijuana reform proceeds at the congressional level. Now, most 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: of you you will already know that the notion of 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: legalizing marijuana, not just for medical purposes, but more broadly 28 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: is widely popular United States. Now the polar show of 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: the sixty of Americans saying it's time to legalize it, 30 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: to legally regulate marijuana. Eighteen states I think it is 31 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: now have legalized marijuana, including a whole bunch earlier this 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: year thirty seven I think of legalized medical marijuana. So 33 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: there's huge support for this stuff. You know, it seems 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: like this momentum is gonna be hard to stop. The 35 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: question people keep asking is what about the federal government? 36 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: What about Congress? Are we going to see an actual 37 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: federal legalization of one sort or another. Now we know 38 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: that Congress is always the last to move when it 39 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: comes to drug policy, and it starts with ballot initiatives 40 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: and goes to state legislatures, then eventually gets to Congress. 41 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: And we're in a challenging moment because, unfortunately for US 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: drug policy reformers, the President Joe Biden, is among the 43 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: worst Democrats when it comes to embracing either marijuana reform 44 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: or broader drug policy reform. He's kind of a diet 45 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: in the whole old drug warrior, and so that is 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: definitely one of the obstacles to moving forward. Now, most 47 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: of the action on marijuana reform has been, in fact, 48 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: almost all of it so far has been in the House. 49 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: You know, when I was running Drug Policy Alliance going 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: back fifteen years ago, every year we were trying to 51 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: get some amendment to basically have the federal government approved 52 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: medical marijuana. But then things began to move a lot 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: more quickly in recent years. But it's almost all on 54 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: the House side. So, I mean, there's all sorts of 55 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: bills out there, some introduced by Republicans, many more by Democrats. 56 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: As you would expect, there's sort of a partisan divide here, 57 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: with Democrats much more sympathetic, but a handful of Republicans 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: also being relatively good on this issue. While some Democrats 59 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: remained bad on the issue. The two big bills that 60 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: have been moving out of the House. One is something 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: called the Safe Banking Act, and the Safe Banking Act 62 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: basically is a bill intended to allow marijuana businesses to 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: basically access regular federally registered banks, to allow them to 64 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, get credit from banks, to allow customers to 65 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: use credit cards. You know, all of this or the thing, 66 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: and everybody agrees it's important to get this passed. I 67 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: remember years ago at a forum in Denver, Colorado, and 68 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: former Governor hicken Looper from Colorado. Now the Senator was asked, 69 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: what's the most important thing the federal government can do, 70 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: and he said, to just clean up this whole banking issue, 71 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: because our folks in the merrijoa industry are at risk 72 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: by having to be so cash intensive. They're getting ripped 73 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: off by criminals. You know, this is not good for customers. 74 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: I mean, customers have to pay with cash, they can't 75 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: use a credit card. It's raising everybody's expenses. Everybody would 76 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: benefit from this thing, both the big players in the 77 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: industry as well as the smaller ones. In the House, 78 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: the Safe Banking Act has now passed five times. I 79 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: think it is typically as a standalone bill, most recently 80 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: in the In the Spring, I think all of the 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: Democrats voted in favor of it, and even a fifty 82 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: one of the Republicans voted in favor of it. And 83 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: then just last week Congressman Prolmer in Colorado got the 84 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: Safe Banking Act added to the National Defense Authors a 85 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: sh bill, the one that funds the Pentagon, the funds 86 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: all of America's military. That is something that actolutely has 87 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: to pass and that generally passes the bipartisan support. This 88 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: amendment will reduce the risk of violent crime in our communities. 89 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: By dealing in all cash, these businesses and their employees 90 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: become targets for robbery, assaults, burglaries, and more. Get At 91 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: the same time, there's an understandable resistance on the part 92 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: of many marijuana policy reformers to just letting this one 93 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: financial piece get fixed, even though would broadly benefit all 94 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: sorts of folks, both the big guys and the little guys, 95 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: while all of the other elements of marijuana reform from 96 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: taking it out of the Control Substances Act, descheduling it, 97 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: which is effectively legalization, and all of the restorative justice 98 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: aspects of this thing, and the expungement of criminal offenses, 99 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: all these sorts of things. And of course the leader 100 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: on this has been Corey Booker, the new Jersey Senator, 101 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: who has basically been saying, I don't want to see 102 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: this Safe Bank Act go through until we're addressing the 103 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: broader aspects of marijuana reform. I don't know about other 104 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: members of the Senate, but I will lay myself down 105 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: to do everything I can to stop an easy banking 106 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 1: bill that's gonna allow all these corporations to make a 107 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: lot more money off of this as opposed to focusing 108 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: on the restorative justice aspects. Also in the House, last year, 109 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: they pass something called the More Act. A big day 110 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: for the legalized marijuana movement in America, the U. S. 111 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: House of Representatives today passed a bill that would decriminalize weed. 112 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: It's the first time Congress has ever voted on the issue. 113 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: The bill would also erase nonviolent federal marijuana convictions, but 114 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: it stands no chance in the Senate, so it will 115 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: not become law. And the More Act is the comprehensive 116 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: marijuana legalization bill that includes all the key elements of 117 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: racial and social equity that we saw incorporated in the 118 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: New York state law and a range of other state laws. 119 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: It does include the safe banking provisions, but it includes 120 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: things like expunging past marijuana offenses. It includes things like 121 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: providing dedicated funding so that people who have been victimized 122 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: by the War on Drugs or otherwise discriminated against have 123 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: an opportunity to participate in the legal industry. It tries 124 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: to give a leg up to the smaller guys trying 125 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: to enter the industry, so the whole thing isn't just 126 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly dominated by the big guys. This bill has been 127 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: out there in Congress for a few years. Last year, 128 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: almost everybody was shocked by the fact that the More 129 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: Act passed the House, and by a fairly substantial margin. 130 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: I mean, people thought this was gonna take years to happen. 131 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: And when people ask why did it past last year? 132 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: Part of it was that the Democrats had, you know, 133 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: some margin there, but they got some Republican votes a handful. 134 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: It's also the fact that this was in the wake 135 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: of what happened with George Floyd and the powerful reactions 136 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: throughout the country to the racism of the criminal justice system, 137 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: so that gave it a lift. Some people point out 138 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: the fact that the very powerful congressman from Massachusetts, Congressman 139 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: Neil who heads the House Ways and Means Committee, who's 140 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: not all that sympathetic a marijuana reform, but that he 141 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: didn't want to be a problem on this issue last 142 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: year because he was facing a challenge from the left. 143 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: Uh So, a whole range of variables. Now this year, 144 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: the More Act is being reintroduced. In fact, I think 145 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: it's gonna be this week the end of September when 146 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: it's gonna House Judiciary Committee is gonna start discussing it. 147 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: They're gonna start marking it up, making some revisions from 148 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: last year's one, And it's not clear it's gonna pass 149 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: this year. I mean, the Democrats lost a whole bunch 150 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: of seats in the election last year, so their margin 151 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: vera is less, some of the momentum has possibly been lost. 152 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: So we're gonna find out later this year whether their 153 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: votes are there, whether the Speaker, Nancy Pelosi wants to 154 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: put this thing to the full House to vote on. 155 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: Assuming it happens, I mean, then the question becomes what 156 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: does the Senate do now? On the Senate side, Schumer 157 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: and Senator Booker and Senator Widen from Oregon. They said 158 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: they don't want to see this banking stuff move forward 159 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: without having the broader legalization or at least some of 160 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: the broader legalization and the social equity racial equity provisions incorporated. 161 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: So a few months ago, those three senators decided to 162 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: introduce basically a marijuana legalization bills, not even a bill, actually, 163 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: it's just a draft bill and to get comments on it. 164 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: And there's an understanding that, you know, Democrats have fifty 165 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: votes fifty one if you count the Vice President. I 166 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: say that there's probably no more than forty of those 167 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: fifty Democratic senators who are clearly in favor. There's a 168 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: couple of Republicans, I mean, good old Rand Paul and 169 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: a few others who are sympathetic to legalization, but sometimes 170 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: they don't like the broader social and racial equity stuff. 171 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: So this thing is now out there, this legalization bill. 172 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: Nobody expects it to pass any time soon. So the 173 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: question on everybody's mind is what's gonna happen a safe 174 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: banking How fast is this broader legalization bill going to 175 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: pass now? Center Schumer is pivotal he's the majority leader. 176 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: He's decided to put his own name on this bill. 177 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: He's decided to vote the time and energy in the 178 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: midst of everything else. I've known uh Center Schumer a 179 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: little bit over the years we've interacted, and I have 180 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: to say he was among the worst Democrats, always supporting 181 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: mandatory miniums, tough on drugs, part of the drug war rhetoric, 182 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: kind of unapologetic about the whole thing. And he's begun 183 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: to shift, I mean, actually quite significantly, unsentencing reform. He's 184 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: become an advocate of repealing or reforming the mandatory minimums. 185 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: But the more remarkable thing is that he stepped forward 186 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: on marijuana reform. His shift is reflective of a broader 187 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: shift in the national consciousness and in the consciousness of 188 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: democratic politicians. So it was a Sunday morning. He was 189 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: in Homer's office in Brooklyn. I'm home on the Upper 190 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: West Side and us to New Yorkers. Got on the 191 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: phone for about fifteen minutes where I could ask them 192 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: all sorts of questions. Hi you Senator Schumer. Hello Ethan, 193 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: So listen. I know you're busy. Only got a few minutes, 194 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna jump right in with you. Okay, okay, 195 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: one sec. One sec. Guess justin I'm on it. I'm 196 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: on a yeah, it will do it in about ten minutes. Okay, okay, Ethan, 197 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: we gotta get going because I gotta be gone by 198 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: eleven thirty. So Senator Schumer, thank you ever so much 199 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: for joining me. So, first of all, I gotta ask you. 200 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you're in the majority leader, you're dealing with, 201 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: got to raise the debt limit, this hospital of government, shutdown, 202 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: the bipartisan infrastructure bill, voting rights Trumpet's Republican Party, threatening 203 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: constitutional democracy. Why have you chosen to prioritize marijuana reform 204 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: this year? Well, first, you know, we can walk in 205 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: chew gum at the same time we have There's a 206 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: whole lot that has to be done. But I believe 207 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: strongly in this for so many reasons. First, the obvious 208 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: just view of freedom. You know, when marijuana was first 209 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: legalized or decriminalized in some of the early Western states, 210 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: everybody said, oh, you know, the sky is gonna fall, 211 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: crime will go up, drug use will go up. Neither 212 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: of those happened, and the American people realize this, Ethan. 213 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: So we have much broader support than we have ever 214 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: had from libertarians, from people who are all over the spectrum. 215 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: Even South Dakota voted in a referendum to legalize this year. 216 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: So that's number one. Number two is just the pain 217 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: that this brings. I mean, a young man, young woman, 218 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: usually of color, uh is caught with a little bit 219 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: of marijuana in their pocket and they act like they've 220 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: been selling a whole lot of heroine half the time 221 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: because of the over criminalization of the law, and getting 222 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: rid of that is very, very important, as well as 223 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: expunging records. So there's so much justice here, and this 224 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: is gonna take a while. No one thought we'd snap 225 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: our fingers and get it all done. When Senator Widen 226 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: Booker and I introduced the legislation, we called it sort 227 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: of a studied bill. We want to hear people's opinions, 228 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: and right now we're building support. It's going to take 229 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: a little while. Obviously, we need to get sixty votes, right, Okay, Well, 230 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: this ray is an important question. So the Center, i 231 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: think is never voted on marijuana before, but the House 232 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: has voted a lot of marijuana, and in particular, in 233 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: addition to the More Act, which they approved last year, 234 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: and they're gonna start considering again this week. Um, there's 235 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: the Safe Banking Act, right, that's past the House five 236 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: times in the spring. Democrats voted in favor, over half 237 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: the Republicans vote in favor. Kinsman Pearl Mutter just had 238 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: added it to the National Defense Authorization Act. So why 239 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: not let this thing move forward while the long term 240 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: process of the legalization bill, uh, you know, needs to 241 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: work yourself through. Senators Booker, Widen and I have come 242 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: to agreement that if we let this bill out, it 243 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: will make it much harder and take longer to pass 244 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: comprehensive reform. We certainly want the provisions similar to the 245 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: Safe Banking Act in our bill, but to get more 246 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: moderate people, to get some Republicans, to get the financial 247 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: services industry behind a company inhensive bill is the way 248 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: to go. It's the right thing to do, is comprehensive reform. 249 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: That's what we believe in. All the pain that's been 250 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: suffered by so many people for so long will not 251 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: be alleviated because banks can now do some funding of 252 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: the growing and processing of marijuana, and so we think 253 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: that the quickest way to get it all done is 254 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: do it together. If you let just the banking provisions pass, 255 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: it will make it much harder to get more Republicans 256 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: and more conservatives on the bill. We're trying to create 257 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: a coalition for comprehensive reform. So let me play a 258 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: bit of Devil's advocate here, because on torn on this 259 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: issue myself. But in point of fact, right, you know, 260 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: the legalization thing, I mean, the More Act going through 261 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: the Congress last year is almost like a magical moment 262 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: where everything came together and even the activists were surprised 263 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: went through so fast. So the question to hear is, 264 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, I hear people say, well, it's gonna be 265 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: the fact cats, the big guys who are gonna benefit 266 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: the most from safe banking and dollar wise, that's true, 267 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: but proportionally it's probably the little guys, including some of 268 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: the ones we want to help through all the social 269 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: racial equity stuff, who are going to benefit. Isn't there 270 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: a maneuver here we're perhaps safe banking gets combined with 271 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: some elements of your legalization bill, Ethan, We would look 272 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: at that if we could, you know, I mean, we 273 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: have said our bills to study bill, and we're looking 274 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: for suggestions and changes, and certainly you know, we're not 275 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: saying the bill has to be exactly as is, but 276 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: to just allow the banking bill through, I think is 277 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: that is there a way through this whole National Defense 278 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: Authorization Act to add on some of the social equity, 279 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: the expungement, those sort of provisions to the state banking thing. 280 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: When you guys get the Conference committee, well it's it's 281 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, look, everything should be explored and if people 282 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: on in the Senate can add some things on, that 283 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: would make it more of a paliative. But again, um, 284 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: I think I don't want to bargain against myself here. 285 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: We need comprehensive reform. That's what we need. We need, 286 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: we need legalization, and um we're gonna fight hard that 287 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: way with our friends in the banking industry who want 288 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: of fun things. We get that, and we're fine with that, 289 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: and I agree some of that would flow by the way, 290 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: But if you don't have real provisions in the bills, um, 291 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: that makes sure that funding wherever it comes from, whether 292 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: it's through taxes and government or through banking, gets to 293 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: the communities who are hurt the most. You know, the 294 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: way water goes downhill and it's going to go to 295 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: all of the easy, fat cat, more well to do people, 296 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: So you've got to be really careful about that. That's true, 297 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: But the fat cats do a better access to capital, 298 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: and I have been able to work around this stuff 299 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: they do, they do. Look, I'm not arguing against the specifics. 300 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm just telling you that it's my view that if 301 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: we if we are in range of getting comprehensive reform, 302 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: and we're making great progress, and remember, as majority leader, 303 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: I can determine what's put on the floor. McConnell said 304 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: he'd never put a legalization or decriminalization bill on the floor. 305 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: I will when we get the votes and build the coalition, 306 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: and the Banking Act will be part of that coalition. Right, 307 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: But you've got a lot of Reclinton Democrats. I mean 308 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: you look at it's not just Feinstein has always been 309 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: ter a go on this stuff. But you got Mansion, 310 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: you know, you got you got Tester in Montana, you 311 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: got to New Hampshire, all of them. Right, Ethan, this 312 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: isn't gonna pass unless we get bipartisan support. And I 313 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: would urge your listeners. You know these days Republicans are 314 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: more open to this. You heard what I said about 315 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: South Dakota before. But you've got the libertarian folks on 316 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: board at sixty what is it, sixty eight percent of 317 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: Americans are in favor of legalization. Don't think because people 318 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: from the certain senators from some states were opposed two 319 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: years ago that they might not be able to be 320 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: with us now. Well, well, sen so I gotta ask 321 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: you this question. I remember years ago you and I talking. 322 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: I was always kind of frustrated because I saw you 323 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: as a kind of you know, knee jerk promondatory minimum, 324 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: a little too sympathetic the drug war. But on marijuana, 325 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 1: even many years ago, you seem kind of softer, more 326 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: open minded on this, and I have to ask you, 327 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: apart from the broader rational issues, to be against marijuana prohibition. 328 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you started college in the late sixties early seventies. 329 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: What was your experience with marijuana back then? Where you 330 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: somebody who smoked a kay usually in your younger years. No, 331 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, I never smoked marijuana myself, never ever, ever, ever, Um, 332 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I I believe that just because 333 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: I didn't, I want to. This is people should make 334 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: their choices and not have the government, particularly in a 335 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: crazy bus system and criminal justice system impose it. Well, 336 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: I must say. I mean, you know, I was in 337 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: the minority at college who didn't smoke it, although more 338 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: people didn't than you think. We were once at dinner 339 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: table at senior year and somebody said, you know, I 340 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: never I never smoked weed, and a bunch of people 341 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: me either. Me either, but a lot did. Don't get 342 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: me wrong. Well, now you're living in the one state 343 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: where it's legal to walk down the street of the 344 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: sidewalk and light up a joint and the cops campust you. 345 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: So U the opportunity is still there, and you know 346 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: the biggest increase. And I was always sympathetic. You're right. 347 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: I was always sympathetic to the legalization decriminal but now 348 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: a majority leader. That's why I put in the bill 349 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: this and move it. And I'm gonna put a lot 350 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: of effort into this. I know we have other things 351 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: to do in the next month or so. This is 352 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: gonna be a longer campaign than that, but I'm going 353 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: to keep working at it until we get it done. Ethan, 354 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: We'll be talking more after we hear this ADM. There's 355 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: an outed in the daily news today from some guy 356 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: who just got a prison at thirty years, and he says, look, 357 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: here's an opportunity Schumer can move forward on the broader 358 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: sentencing reform. You know that first step back that reduced 359 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: mandatory minimums. Now we can make it retroactive. Is that 360 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: going to happen sometime soon? Well, I can't tell you that. 361 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: I've supported the First Step Act, and I've supported, I've encouraged. 362 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: I'm for the Justice and Policing Act, which would deal 363 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: with you know, the racism and discrimination that's been in 364 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: law enforcement for so long. And I'm also, um, I 365 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: am also for lots of different provisions that would take 366 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: the first step back there further, Absolutely, do you have 367 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: regrets about some of mandatory miniums you supported years ago? Look, 368 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: you know the world's change ethan crime was a huge 369 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: issue back then. It was tearing the communities apart, it 370 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: was dividing people. The world changed, and um, you know 371 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: you have to change with it right now. Those laws 372 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: are far too restrictive and should be changed. Even then, 373 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: I was for an escape valve where people could make 374 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: an appeal away from mandatory sentence, but New Gangridge took 375 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: that out of the bill. Okay, well, here here's the 376 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: question of you. Then everybody's freaking out with understandable reasons 377 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: now about fentenel, But some of what the politicians are 378 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 1: doing from the Biden administration, it's almost bipartisan, is reacting 379 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: to federal the same way we did to Crack thirty 380 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: years ago with a total freak out, enhanced penalties, mandatory miniums, 381 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: you know, criminalized first, asked questions later. So the question is, 382 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: we know that mandatory miniums don't really work here. We 383 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: know that most of the people being caught up in 384 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: those things are low level people. Sometimes they don't even 385 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: know fentinels in what they're selling. They're all their majority 386 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: black and brown. Can we be assured that whatever happens 387 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: with fentinyl coming out of the Congress is not going 388 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: to include mandatory minnows. Look, we have to learn, we 389 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: have to learn from our experience, and we have to 390 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: draft these things carefully and not panic. I agree with that. 391 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: And when it comes to Republicans, I remember, you know, 392 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: good old Rand Paul was one of the first Republicans 393 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: out in favor of this thing. I'm kind of disgusted 394 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: with his support for Trumpism these days. For a guy 395 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: who's a libertarian to support Donald Trump. Is it's despicable. 396 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: It's absolutely it's despicable. You know. On the other hand, 397 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: I look at a guy like grass Lee, who was 398 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: a real drug ward dinosaur years ago, but now it 399 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: looks like Key and Durban have almost become a team 400 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: and trying to move forward some sensible reform. I mean, 401 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: how do you understand Grassley's transition? Is the world is 402 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: changing and as mentioned earlier, crime was rampant back in 403 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: the nineties and it is no longer. There are also 404 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: a lot better ways to deal with criminalization. I'm trying 405 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: to put into this Reconciliation bill community alternatives to violence. 406 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: It's a very important thing to do. And you know, 407 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: we learned, we learned how to do things better and 408 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: smarter and more humanely as you go forward, and we 409 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: have to learn in many of these ways. Okay, last question, 410 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: So you know, the only thing it was heartbreaking to 411 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: me in the Democratic primaries. I mean, obviously I support 412 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. I wanted to be a great president, but 413 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: he was the worst of all the Democrats in the 414 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,479 Speaker 1: in the primaries on these marijuana issue, on broader drug issues, 415 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: he seems like almost like fine Stein sort of stuck 416 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: in the mud, old drug warrior, not sympathetic to legally 417 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: regulating marijuana, slow and sentence before him. Have you talked 418 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: to him about these issues anytime this year? Do you 419 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: get any read from him? Yeah? I look, he's been 420 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: preoccupied with a lot of stuff. But I am going 421 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: to lobby him heavily on this issue. And uh, you know, 422 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: I've had a few conversations, but not many, but it 423 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: will increase. Mm hmm. Okay, Senator, Well listen, I really 424 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: appreciate your taking the time. You know, please do whatever 425 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: you can to save the world from the threats to 426 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: constitutional democracy from Republican Trumps. Um. We're trying, man, We're 427 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: fighting the fight. We got many fronts we're fighting on. 428 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: But God gave me a lot of energy, so I'm 429 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: firing away. And I do appreciate your stepping out in 430 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: Your leadership on marijuana reform has been bold. You were 431 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: there for some years now. It makes a real difference. 432 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: Thank you, Senator. Psychoactive is a production of I Heart 433 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: Radio and Protozoa Pictures. It's hosted by me Ethan Naedelman. 434 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: It's produced by Kacha Kumkova and Ben Cabrick. The executive 435 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: producers are Dylan Golden, Ari Handel, Elizabeth Geesus and Darren 436 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: Aronovski for Protozoa Pictures, Alice Williams and Matt Frederick for 437 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, and me Ethan Naedelman. Our music is 438 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: by Ari Belusian and a special thanks to a Vivit Brio, 439 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: Sef Bianca Grimshaw and Robert Beatty. If you'd like to 440 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: share your own stories, comments or ideas, please leave us 441 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: a message at eight three three seven seven nine sixty. 442 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: That's one eight three three Psycho zero. You can also 443 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: email us as psychoactive at Protozoa dot or find me 444 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Ethan Nadelman. And if you couldn't keep 445 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: track of all this, find the information in the show notes. 446 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: Next week we'll be talking with Leonard Picard, who allegedly 447 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: was the greatest producer of illicit LSD in world history, 448 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: spent twenty years in a maximum security prison, and somewhat 449 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: miraculously was released just this year. Your reputation as being 450 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: the biggest or one of the biggest producers of LSD 451 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: in global history, can you say, well, yep, that's true, 452 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: or are you in a position where it's really hard 453 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: to you know, own that at this point, or whether 454 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: maybe it's actually actually not true. Well, the government's um 455 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: primary witness stated that the lab I he alleged I 456 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: was responsible for producer about a kilogram a month for 457 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: twenty years, but or set to me is quite fanciful. 458 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: But I do remain under federal supervision, and I must 459 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: maintain my position under oath at federal trial that the 460 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: allegations are our millerad government conjecture. Subscribe to Cycleactive now 461 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: see it, don't miss it.