WEBVTT - Ep. 181: Bibles and Bulls 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.800 If you listen to the Meat Eater podcast, and obviously 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.160 you do because here you are listening to it, or 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.800 watch the show Meat Eater on Netflix, you have seen 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.760 and kind of met our buddy, Remy Warren, who is 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:15.920 I'll say, I've said it before and I'll say it again, 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.720 one of the most just skilled, accomplished hunters I've ever 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.320 had the pleasure of spending time out in the woods with. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:28.080 We are launching a new podcast with Remy called Cutting 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.680 the Distance and then Cutting the Distance is not like 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:35.320 a conversational show. Cutting the Distance is an educational show 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.760 where Remy walks you through situations and scenarios from his 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:47.960 life and gives you like actionable, usable information, instruction, intelligence, 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:52.920 inspiration about how to become a better hunter. And there's 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.720 no one more suited to give you this information than 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.400 Remy Warren. So go find it. Cutting the Sin's the 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.160 same places you can find the Meat Eater podcast. Give 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.280 it a listen, give it a review. Caughting the Distance 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:16.240 with Remy Warren. This is the me Eater podcast coming 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.240 at you, shirtless, severely, voge bitten in my case, underwear 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:26.000 listening un podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.919 x Hunt Creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.800 for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.160 Google play store. Nor where you stand with on x 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:46.759 Okay you on Phil Wild Phil? Why the wild Phil? 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.680 I don't know because I'm used to calling people named 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:50.680 Bill wild Bill, and then I thought I'd call him 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.320 wild Phil. But wild Phil doesn't sound good. I like it. Yeah, 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.160 I think you just try it out for four or 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:57.920 five months, see what happens. I was telling them, if 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:04.480 your name's Film, probably not with too wild. But if 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.920 your name's Bill, that can go any direction. Man, there's 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.280 some wild Phils out there, Wild Phil, Wild Phil, Hiccock, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:17.119 Wild Phil Cody, Big Phil Cody. Anyway, Wild Phil. Thank 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.280 you Phil. Uh, Jason Commut, introduce yourself real quick, and 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.120 then I got a quick question for you, Jason Phelps 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.040 the Pholps game Calls, and I have your partner, Uh, 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.000 Dirk Durham with Phelps Game Calls. Good job, guys. If 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:30.880 you had to rate your patients on a like a 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:32.880 sliding scale of one to ten, what would it? Because 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:34.440 it's gonna We've got a couple of things we've gotta 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.200 do here to really so you're just gonna be antis 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:43.560 all get out. Yeah, like it's not good. You're an 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:47.920 impatient person. Yeah, your whole life. You've known this well. 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.200 The reason I asked, um, you got a couple of 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.120 things to top about. We got like, like we had 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.440 a handful of nipple like nipple ripping nipple stories coming 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.480 in lately. Yeah, a new one came in. You can't 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.000 pass them by. No, a new one came in, Um, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.040 s guy says, I thought you'd be interested in this. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.600 He says that they were out. They were in Ontario, Canada, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.600 a bunch of people swimming in the water, A bunch 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.120 of guys, a bunch of girls, and they're out swimming 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.440 twenty ft of water, and all of a sudden, one 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.000 of this guy's buddies accuses him of giving him a 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.560 purple nipple, which is when you pinch someone's nipple apparently 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:30.680 and twisted real hard, which we call a titty twister. 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.560 Purple nerple. That's what I've been told, purple nerple, purple 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:39.480 nerpal Really you too, yes, he say it is again, 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.800 Let me double check. I mean the titty twister is 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.360 I would say more common, but purple nerples, right, nerple, 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:50.800 purple nerple, He says, his body started, Oh, I'm sorry 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.120 he does call it the purple nerple? Hell? Is that 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.240 a t twister? Basically? Yeah, So he has a buddy said, hey, 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.960 stop giving me a titty twister. He's like, I didn't 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.880 give you titty twister. And they inspect the nipple and 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.760 it's been bit by a northern pike. What yeah, I 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.760 had little teeny pin prick holes. Then later they're sitting 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:22.080 around recounting this story and there was an aunt that um, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:26.359 he describes her as a fairly attractive aunt. Um. I 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.040 thought it was interesting that he added that, because I 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.839 feel like if you he wanted to set the scene, 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.600 I feel like it's okay to be like I thought 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:39.000 about this this morning. Um, I feel that it's okay 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.520 to be attracted to an aunt or uncle, but you 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.800 do not act on it or tell the aunt and 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:52.240 uncle agreed, Sure, go for it. Do you know what 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.640 I mean? Like, it seems like it's it's inexcusable. Would 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:59.960 you agree with that? Phelps? No, you think it's inexcusable 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.479 for a young lad to find his aunt. So it's 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.240 got to be the family removed, so it can't be 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.440 like I said, no, I didn't say act on it. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.800 I said, you cannot act on it. I don't even 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.120 know that you would tell anyone about it in your family. 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.080 I think it'd be okay to tell friends. Okay, yeah, 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.800 that's acceptable. Okay, So today I have a good looking 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.720 aunt to be attracted to ones aunt or uncle, blood aunt. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.600 That's what I was saying. It's like the married end 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.640 of the family and not okay, but your mom's sister, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:38.320 you're you're I'm talking. I'm talking about like, I'm not 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.360 talking about telling them or acting on it or marrying them. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.640 It's it's okay to say that they're good looking. Yeah, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.680 if someone well, I don't want to explore all the options, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.360 but there are some familial connections that if someone has 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:53.360 just said that they had a fairly attractive X, like 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.640 I had a you know, fairly attractive father, I would 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.160 be like, that's you know, not I'd keep that yourself. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.280 But to say you have a fairly attractive aunt, I 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.400 know what you noticed it. I noticed it. That was 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.560 interesting thing to bring up, and I didn't want to 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.880 pass judgment, and I'm like, that's fine in this context. 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:17.240 The aunt go ahead. In this context. I think he's 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:23.680 letting the reader feel better about envisioning this scene that 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.040 you're going to talk about. Now. He's coloring the scene 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:31.880 because of what he says happened. That the aunt divulges 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.480 to the boys that that has happened to her too, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.280 out swimming in the lake, which then revealed to them 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.479 that this aunt that they find attractive slims nude in 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.000 the lake. And he just wanted to throw it into 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.240 the repertoire of it's okay to be thinking about I 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.200 encourage you to think about my aunt swimming nude in 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.000 the lake because she's an attractive gal. I think he's like, 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.839 let me paint the picture for you. Right. Uh, there's 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:03.640 my aunt, just smoke and hot right in you. That's now, 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.040 he said, he said, fairly attractive. So you know, in 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:11.320 montainio's supposed to paint posts like defense poles, trees, whatever. 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.520 Orange means that don't come in here in Texas. This 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.960 this is very un Texas. I feel in Texas you 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.480 use purple. Purple paint means don't come in my land. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.160 And he said that there's he was in a hardware store. 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.600 A listener rolled in. He's in a hardware store, and 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:32.600 they have cans of paint labeled no hunting purple, which 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.800 he found offensive. He said, why not just call it 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:42.520 no trespassing purple? Yeah? Very Have they done some sort 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.240 of study that says, like purple paint lasts longer in 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.080 the hot Texas sun, or something doesn't fade as fast 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.080 no hunting purple like a new shade he describes as 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.040 a new shade of purple. Did he feel like it 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.600 was like an anti hunting He thought they'd sell a 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.280 hell of a lot more in Texas. They called it 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.640 no trespassing purple. Right, I don't know why I thought 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.560 that was interesting. Now that's it. Now that I'm talking 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.600 about it doesn't seem as interesting as I thought it was. 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.480 Do you find that interesting? Jason? Yeah, I don't get 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.360 offended that easy though. It just is what it is. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.080 I mean, maybe you can trespass, you just don't want 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.080 you to hunt. There is there is there a places 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.160 you can get on and not hunt, but you can 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.680 be on their property. Or is it truly no trespassing purple? 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.720 I don't know he took offense to it. I think 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.880 it's no trespassing purple. Uh? Do I talk about this 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:35.040 that this guy uh that the guy in Kentucky was 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:39.200 saying that, um, they were doing some kind of study 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.480 where they had collar deer and people were supposed to 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:49.120 feel free to shoot, like because they're doing mortality, so 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:50.800 like a hunter would be like if you see a 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.320 collar they're saying to hunters, if you see a collar 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.520 deer and you would normally shoot it, go ahead and 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:01.360 shoot it. Um, And they were He found that there's 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.679 some guys that had some resistance to do I talk 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:08.920 about this shooting the collar dear because of I don't know. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:10.920 We've talked a lot about shooting collar dear, but I 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:15.040 don't know if we've covered this specific. He multiple individuals 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.720 that you definitely, if you shoot a collar deer, you 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.400 need to grind all of the meat because they also 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.800 plant micro chips in the deer and if you don't 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.640 grind all the meat and destroy the micro trips, they 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:33.560 will then track you for a while because you will 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.640 in take the meat and the microchip will then live 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.000 inside of you. This is the wildlife biologist wrote us 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:43.120 in about this. But you guys, take nice bowl comes 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.240 strolling through, you got a collar on his neck. You 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.520 think twice about it or just normal normal as can be. Well, 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.640 I'm shooting it. I wouldn't be able to do it. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.160 It just who would seem we talked about this, it 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.480 would seem it would seem corrupted to me. But a 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.400 band of duck as cool as hell, like tag bears 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:07.240 no collar? Now collar, I wouldn't want to it. I'm 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.360 shooting it. Steve thinks that because some other man's hands 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.480 have been on the animal prior to his, that there 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.959 is some sort of corruption has occurred. Contained no longer, 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.080 here is the driven snow. I would shoot it for sure. 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.640 A collar? Would you? Then? Would you then take photos 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.760 of you with the collared animal? Or did you caught 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.920 the collar off? No, I'd take a photo of the 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.240 collar and then start wearing the collar, and your in 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.160 your caps would be not the first guy to handle this. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.800 I just that's like I see it, his uh meet 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.679 in the freezer. The caption could also read, look at 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:54.079 this science at work? All right, so let's very last 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:55.960 day to hunt. You've been grinding up for fourteen days 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.080 in the color. When walks by at six o'clock at night, 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.280 last day, change your mind. No, I'm not that good 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.400 of an elkhunner yet, so if that thing came into 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.040 me that I see that as maybe my only opportunity 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.120 this season. In regards to the micro chip eating the 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.880 micro chip, Yeah, the the data is like once you 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.400 get a mortality signal, which all immortality signal is is 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.960 when something hasn't moved for a period of time depending 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:29.760 on the species. Like, once they get that, then you 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:34.360 know kind of they want to go retrieve the thing. 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.360 It's you know, for us, it's gonna end up. You know, 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.880 let's say you're out hunting for fourteen days and you 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.280 ate that thing early on in the hunt, It's gonna 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.120 end up in a pit toilet somewhere, right, So I 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.079 don't I don't think you gotta worry about being tracked 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.200 as long as you're a regular fella. Like so you're saying, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.600 if you're a Kentuckian, Yeah, and you shoot a collar, dear, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.080 and and choose to eat hole muscle meat and not 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.880 ground and do ingest this tracking chip, and you're worry 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:10.680 about government interference in your life, you will eventually pass it. Yes, 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.520 you will scat it out, and you will then be 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.079 free of the government following you around. Yes, you will 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:21.599 have led them to the Flying J truck stop. We 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.360 heard a good story from I think it's Robert Abernathy 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.200 told us the story one time where they had some 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:31.000 turkeys and they had those little tracking they can glue 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.280 these temporary I saw that in Tennessee. They can glue 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:41.520 these temporary chips up into their UH feathers and all 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.800 the feathers out, get a bare patch of skin and 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:48.920 then glue. Anyways, he they one day got a signal 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.520 from one of their turkeys that he was headed down 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:55.000 the highway hi rate of speed, Hi rate of speed. 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.319 And I think that the story. I think the way 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.120 the story goes is that it must be the person 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.200 went to plug the turkey or skin it and realized 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.240 what it had on it, because when they finally went 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.160 there and found the dang thing it was, I think 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.360 he said it was like buried under a woodpile or something, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.679 or stuffed under a woodpile. But the guy realized that 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.000 the go of was coming. Yeah, the guy poached a 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.679 tracking device turkey. Remember a long time ago when we 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.240 did that episode with Bracy Hill, our friend Bracy Hill, 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.079 and it was about hunting, like UH discussions about hunting 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.760 in the Bible. Um, the guy wrote in curious why 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.280 we didn't include why we didn't get into this quote. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:44.040 There's a quote in the Bible. It's a Proverbs twelve 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:51.320 that says the lazy do not roast any game, but 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:56.080 the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt. Which 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:00.520 is a good quote. And I was looking at up 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:02.320 try to figure out where it came from, what it meant. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.800 And you know how, there's all kinds of different versions. 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.120 There's all the different versions of the Bible. If you 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.120 look at all the different versions of the Bible, that 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.920 quote means a thousand different things, like so, the lazy 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.760 do not roast any game, but the diligent feet on 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.480 the riches of the hunt. That's like the new International version, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.960 the New Living translation, lazy people don't even cook the 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.720 game they catch, but the diligent make use of everything 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.920 they find. And then the English standard version, whoever is 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.160 slothful will not roast his game, but the diligent man 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:44.480 will get precious wealth. Uh, the Brillon lazy man does 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.520 not roast his game, but a diligent man prizes his possession. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.760 King James, the slothful man roasteth not that which he 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.400 took in hunting, but the substance of a diligent man 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:05.520 is precious. Think about all that. It's complicated. It's complicated. 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:12.240 It's like a game at telephone about hunting. Uh. Yeah, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.280 it's interestingly the transition from like, well, meat, it's not 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:20.840 quite valuable enough, so we're gonna make it and change 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:27.560 that word riches or substance. Aren't those two versions? Yeah? Uh? 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:29.400 Two last quick things. No, I'm gonna get to this 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.840 stuff later. One last quick thing. Me and Seth. You're 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.720 still good, Jason, you get aunties all get out. I'm good. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:40.080 I can listen to stories. Uh. Me and South is 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:44.000 starting playing out our our winter trap line. So anyone 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.760 that had this is a public service announcement, I'm gonna 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.360 try to spend it like I'm gonna spin it like 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.960 instead of them doing us a favor, we'll spend it 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.160 like we're doing them a favor. Oh, we're definitely doing 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:01.080 them a favor. So anyone um who's got nuisance beaver 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:08.000 muskrat problems and they'd like to get him taken care of, yeah, 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.320 send it. Go on, go on to the meat Eater 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.120 dot com and send us an email and you can 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.720 just make the subject line up beavers with a capital 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.160 with an exclamation point, ye, and then we'll feel them 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.600 and well we'll range as far as big timber. Yeah, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.560 for news beavers, nuisance muskrats. Yeah, we don't want to 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.720 go across the state, but yeah, fairly local. Good beaver 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.520 removal service, Free beaver removal service for nuisance beavers southwest Montana. 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.200 And uh, seth, do we when we find a gate close, 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.560 how do we leave it? We leave it close? And 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.720 we find a gate open, how do we uh leave it? Um? Well, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.280 if it's supposed to be closed, we'll close it. If 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:45.280 it's if it's supposed to be open, well, we'll keep 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.160 it the way it is. Let's say a landowner says 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.400 to us Steth, he says, you boways, go ahead and 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.160 catch all them beavers, but don't don't let me catch 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.680 you shooting my elk. What would we shoot those out? 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.120 We would not shoot the elk, No, sir, We're just 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.160 there for beavers. If he said, don't drive in my 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.640 field once wet, would we drive on that field? Seth? Nope, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:09.160 we'd be doing a lot of walking. Reliable conscientious beaver removal, respectful, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.800 respectful beaver removal services. Um, and if they just wanted 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.760 to drop him off here at the office in Bozeman, Montana, 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:24.760 you guys would say, no, no, no, that's might want 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.719 to flash him. No. I spent many years doing that, 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.000 and I'd rather just catch him myself. Yeah, you guys 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.920 will do We talk about this ever before, used to 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.600 flesh hides for a fur buyer. We might have I 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:38.960 don't know. I don't know. You guys hit it hard 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.000 enough because I threw that picture you guys working way 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.200 up on the Instagram and folks right like that guy 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.080 know what he's doing. Its wearing flip flops. I called 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.439 the flip flop flasher man. People were very interested in 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.639 me wearing flip flops names he's uh, he's dp double 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.200 punch or the flip flop flasher. Uh, where's the double 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.719 punch come from? He doesn't like it. It's a long 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.040 story that he doesn't like. Um. What was I gonna 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:11.560 tell you to say about seth? Oh? Yeah? So when 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.160 you sell fur, like like, if we just want our 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.000 we want our own furs for hats and mittens and 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:20.239 pillows and queen size comforters. But um, I'm gonna make 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.880 a California king. That's why I'm trying to solicit. Uh. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.160 Does that mean a real big king sized bed California. Yes, 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.959 I'm fixing to make a California king sized comforter out 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.639 of beaver pelts. That's why we need a lot of 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:37.680 dem nuisance beavers. Uh. But when you sell fur, you 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.439 can sell it three ways. Guys will sell it in 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.240 the round, which is that's just the animal that's just 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.159 selling like a raccoon to a fur buyer. You can 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.920 sell it green, which is skinned and not fleshed and dried. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:53.639 You could sell it flesh and not dried, but no 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.159 one in the right mind would ever do that. No. 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.840 Or you can sell it ready to roll, flesh and dried. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:02.639 Seth used to have a job. Or he would go 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.800 after high school down to the fur buyer and he 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:09.040 would skin. Would you skin or just flesh? Skin, flash 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.320 and put them up skin flesh and put up raccoons 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:20.879 and some beavers, muskrats, fox, coyote, mink. Uh, pretty much 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.400 anything that was legal to trap at that point in time. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.360 Was that an hourly paying job or per animal? Oh, 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.600 it's per animal. Would you make fleshing the raccoon hide? 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.840 I don't remember. It's like it was maybe like four 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.160 or five bucks to skin it, four or five bucks 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.879 to flesh it, but there's no money left over. I 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.120 guess in those days the prices are pretty good on raccoons. 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.080 Then I was in high school too, so like just 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:52.760 some extra money, like like I wasn't, but he's I'm saying, right, 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.080 if the markets got low enough, I wonder if your 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.480 pay goes down, and never seemed to go down. I 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:02.800 used to peel logs for a log home builder, and 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.520 it was thirty five cents a foot. I don't know 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.480 what it is nowadays, but they paid you thirty five 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.600 cents per foot to peel logs. But I have a 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.240 hard time picture that they're going to give you eight 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.359 bucks the skin and flesh and a raccoon. Are you 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.920 lying to us? No, that's I mean because I was 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.800 just trying to build us. I was just trying to 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:22.840 build up our credibility. I had a lot of those 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:27.160 jobs that same time frame, and I often found it 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.720 was how you could take advantage of a high school kid, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:35.800 because I'd bust there'd be good little manual for X amount, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.000 and then I'd be like, yeah, I did double that, 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:42.280 so that's thirty bucks instead of fifteen bucks. And they'd 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.440 be like, whoa what, Well, I didn't really want to 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:49.000 pay that. I'd be like, okay, that sounds for you 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.240 know my buddy Tommy Edson, Um you know him. N 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.320 He one time he knew this old guy that he 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.320 was along like Tommy was like his grandma lived along 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.520 to Columbia and some little guy had dug a big 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.480 pond on his property wanted to stock with bullheads. Lord 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:09.119 knows why, but that's what you wanted to stock him with. 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:11.720 And he told tom He's like, I'll give you a 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.000 dolerable head. Not know when he's getting himself into so 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.119 he like set himself to work. He says, when it 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.960 comes time for delivery, he likes his mob drives him over, 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.520 you know, and she pops the trunk. He's got all 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:27.159 these buckets in there. And the guy looks in there 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:32.120 and he's got he kinda has Oh. He's like, yeah, 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.040 I'll give you a hundred bucks for the whole thing. Wow, 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.600 he had over a hundred. I think it was a 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:40.320 dumb everybody said. The guy was just like, well, I 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:46.520 didn't really mean that may exactly all right, Jason Belts 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.280 where we at hit him any No, I want to 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:56.040 do this one. Who invented the diaphragm call? We're just 0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:00.399 talking about that. I think we we not know what. Well, 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.919 there's there's two guys. I think it's Wayne Carlton Ben 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.639 the diaphragm well not the diaphragm so, I mean on 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.080 the OLK call side. He basically took a turkey call 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.040 and rolled it into the OLT calls. I don't know, Um, 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.600 the history on who invented like the very first diaphragm 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.879 call for turkeys, um or any other game is that 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:21.600 maybe unknowable? Uh yeah, I don't know if anybody's because 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:23.960 Wayne and Larry Jones on the OLK call side, but 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.960 there were turkey calls before that, which maybe Wayne was 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.240 even involved in a little bit. What year was that 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:34.560 going on? I remember my yeah, I remember my my 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:39.240 half brother Frank was an out guide in Colorado and 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.280 they used to use PDC pipe and turkey calls. And 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.040 now when people were just like it was like a 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.480 new thing, you know. Yeah, I mean in the history 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:49.600 of hunting compared like the history of game calls, it's 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.880 like it's very very new. Still game calls very very 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:56.920 short timeline and only forty fifty years. I mean they've 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.040 been using old you know, grass and in predator calls 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.600 and stuff like that. But as far was like the market, um, 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.280 fairly fairly new. The I got sent a bunch of 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:11.400 pictures from this museum in France, all these very intricate, 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:17.119 very very old bird calls, like ranging from you know, 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.960 songbirds with which they're big on eating all the way 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.159 through ducks and geese. But these things like look like 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:27.320 accordions or like crazy smoking apparatus. I had many guesses 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.320 before I got to the correct Oh you you didn't 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.000 look at immediately be like that's some kind of game call. No, No, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.679 they're very intricate. I'll dig up those pictures here at 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:38.320 some point. And uh, when we were hanging around down 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:40.320 in South America, when they try to call in the 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.560 tape here, they still use a blade of grass, which 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:45.879 is kind of a read right, just it's all about 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.840 that vibration of that material, so anything will work. So 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:54.000 who were talking about the Tell everyone about how Elkolin 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.040 came into being a thing. I mean, how well is 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.159 it known? Like now, how did it start? Back? Talk 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:02.360 about like the late seventies early eighties whatever, when people 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:04.359 started messing around with the idea that you calling out 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:06.600 or bugle in elk you know. Yeah, So I mean 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:08.800 I think it's just you know, as a hunter and 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:10.760 trying to take advantage of the seasons we were giving. 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:13.120 Like somebody just realized, hey, these things are rutting there 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:15.280 and you know, trying to imitate them. And so I 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.119 think it was just natural. You know, Wayne Carlton, you 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:20.719 might know the story better that um. You know, he 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:22.760 was able to key run on a turkey call, which 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.560 we build some of those calls for um, and just 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:27.600 basically realize that, hey, I sound like an ELK went 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:29.360 out and you know, put it to work in September 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.760 and realize, hey, we can call these things in pretty effectively. 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:37.639 Do a do a keky run for everyone? Oh you 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.320 always to do my mouth? No, no, hell no, I'll 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:48.920 do what A call the whole sack of him. It's 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:54.520 a it's an ima immature immature, our immature turkey call. 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:57.960 And then they it's basically a young, a young immature 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:01.040 turkey trying to to yell. Yeah. Guys that hunt turkeys 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:06.639 with dogs, right, Um, don't they when they when they 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:08.919 go on the fall, and you scatter up the whole crew, 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:11.080 scatter up a flock and then they'll kind of get 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.800 in a central location to try to start calling the 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:15.720 flock back together. A lot of yeah, a lot of 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:18.840 kikiS in the fall. Yeah, that's that's what that's I've 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:20.320 never done that, but that's I think that's the call 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:22.800 they use, that long drawn out he helps and stuff. 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:25.840 But yeah, it just and so that we design a 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:28.359 turkey call to do that kiki and it's very very 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:30.520 similar to a cow call um, you know when we 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:31.879 get when we get as was like, hey, I'm a 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.000 turkey callor never touching elk call, and Tim like, hey, 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:36.520 can you keeky run on some double and triple reads 0:25:36.520 --> 0:25:38.159 and they said yeah. I'm like, well you're gonna be. 0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:39.879 You hit the ground running on calls, you'll be able 0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:41.320 to figure it out real quick. So when you make 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:43.520 a when you make a call for that turkey sound, 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:45.919 it's just a single read. It's a it's usually a 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:47.399 triple was like a ghost cut. So you're trying to 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:49.240 remove you don't want any overhanging in the middle. You 0:25:49.320 --> 0:25:50.800 want that middle to be clean so you can get 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.399 those high pitched key run so it's uses like a 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.960 ghost cut or or a straight read. Hey, real quick, gunny, 0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:03.159 explain to explained to these boys, the um are you 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:07.959 looking at me like that? I'm just trying to prepare 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.080 my mind for what's coming at me. Explained to these boys. 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:18.600 The guys upcut, oh um, the guys that cut. I 0:26:18.640 --> 0:26:22.080 sent pictures of the guys up cut to Jason. But 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:27.240 it's basically like a small you shaped cut out of 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:30.280 one side, and then within that you shape, there's two 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:34.399 little micro slits, and then at the opposite end of 0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:37.840 the call there's a micro slit, and then from there 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:42.639 he starts there and then to dial in the diaphragm. 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:46.480 He just slowly shaves like the fleeting edge of the 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:50.879 top read. And as that as you find where you 0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:53.320 wanted to be, you stopped. You you just you stop 0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:56.040 clipping little edges off, you know, the front edge off 0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.480 of that call. I don't, I don't. I don't want 0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:01.280 to criticize if I feel like folks at home would 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:06.280 have no idea what you're talking about. Okay, I can 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:09.240 go all the way back to you know why it's 0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:14.160 it's largely my fault. Can you explain what it explain 0:27:14.200 --> 0:27:17.200 a diaphragm call the people. I mean they can hopefully 0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:18.639 they can just pick up their phone and type in 0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:21.920 like diaphragm alcohol. Yeah. So we basically have three parts. 0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:23.640 We have a piece of tape. We have an aluminum frame. 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.920 We have latex, whether it's single, double, triple stack. It 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:28.920 looks like a filled in horse shoe. Yep, yep, you 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:30.800 gotta you put this little piece in your mouth that's 0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:34.360 maybe inch and a half wide, inch deep and um. 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.479 That latex and whatever fashion it is, vibrates um. As 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:39.119 you blow air across that, you get a seal with 0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:41.320 that tape. All the air that comes out of your 0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:44.199 diaphragm your chest will go across that latex and it 0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:46.560 vibrates um. And it's that vibration that gives us a 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:48.760 different sounds. So you know how we have how we 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:52.040 stretch the call, the thickness of the latex, the cuts, 0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:54.840 the overhangs, all that effects that sound. We get out 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.800 of that call and you can put one piece of 0:27:56.880 --> 0:28:00.879 latex three four three. I mean you could use the 0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:04.600 latex from a rubber right. Yeah. We we have used 0:28:04.600 --> 0:28:07.679 condoms on when when the prophylactics and shorts supply, So 0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:09.920 a lot of your good turkey calls really sendles out 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:12.479 to folks. We we have, Uh, if you go, if 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:13.840 you were to go look at my call Ben, I've 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:17.399 got like tons of rolled up condoms, like you know, 0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:19.720 there's no no coding on them, but they're just basically 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:23.159 robbed condoms that we can cut up and get squares 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:26.520 out of and use to make calls. And when you 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:29.080 go down and buy all those at the drug store, 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:31.639 no no, no, no, we're like, oh, you know, just 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:39.120 making some game calls. Factory direct the coming big giant bags. 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.520 So it's the same latex. Yeah, yeah, I mean for 0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:43.080 the most part, it's it's one of the types we 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:46.440 can use. Can you use latex gloves Latex that's too thick? 0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.200 Usually that's usually like five six mill Everything we use 0:28:49.280 --> 0:28:51.560 is like in the four thousands. The Max will use 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.440 like five thousands latex was really thin, like dental grade latex. 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:58.160 And when you say tape, the body of it's made 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.520 out of tape. Yep, tape. It's it's really gaffer's tape. 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.240 Everything that we use on our calls is basically just 0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:08.400 the colored gaffer's tape. We had everything in house then 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:17.080 sets taping. Where do you get the frames from? You said, 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:18.840 you have a manufactured design and then we have a 0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:21.720 progressive die. So it takes like four stages. You know. 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.680 The first stage it'll it'll cut to cut the center out, 0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:27.480 the second stage will shape the frame, third will cut 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:30.800 the perimeter, and then um, it spits into a little bucket. 0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:33.480 So the thing builds like you do that in house. No, 0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:35.360 we don't do that in house. That we outsourced that. 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:37.960 So that's one of those things. It's just it's two 0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:41.880 time consuming and it's it's expensive to do in house. 0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:45.440 So are you guys like stamping the frame out of 0:29:45.480 --> 0:29:48.920 like aluminum or does that come yep, that's just um 0:29:49.000 --> 0:29:51.680 we we specify the thickness we played with that. Um 0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:54.680 we apply adhesive backers, so there's actually adhesive on the 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:57.200 inside of that clamshell. And then it's just a little 0:29:57.240 --> 0:29:59.360 It starts its life as a strip that's as you know, 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:02.480 as white as it runs through that progressive die and 0:30:02.480 --> 0:30:04.880 and punches it out in like four stages are normal 0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:08.040 our Turkey call frames that don't have like the amp 0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:10.040 dome on the top. It's only like a three stage 0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:12.360 progressive die. So it's just Um, you know there's guys 0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:14.160 that are a lot you know, even as an engineer, 0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:16.280 there's guys that are tolling engineers. They'll just they'll look 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:17.640 at our drawing and say, oh, this is the most 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:22.320 efficient way to build this part. So what we're talking 0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:26.320 about is when you make one of these calls, you 0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:29.040 stretch the you stretch the elastic, or stretch the latex, 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:31.680 and then there's all kinds of manipulations. You can do 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:35.719 the latex, cutting little shapes and do them whatnot. And 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.719 that's always done on the top read. Correct. You can 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:41.040 do it on the bottom read, but it doesn't have 0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:42.600 any effect. I mean, you can cut the heck out 0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:44.760 of the bottom read, but it's that top read that 0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:47.880 has the overhanging material that vibrates because you're pushing air 0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:50.480 basically from the bottom to the top. Those top little 0:30:50.480 --> 0:30:53.160 fingers or any of the overhanging material is what's vibrating, 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:55.360 giving you that rasp on a turkey call. We're on 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:57.200 an elk call. You see that. We usually always have 0:30:57.240 --> 0:30:59.400 a leading edges straight and that's when we can get 0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:03.440 those clean, more elk like sounds. We don't want anything overhanging. Um, 0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:06.000 you want to rasp old. I mean, yeah, I'm on 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:07.400 the out call side. Will just do it with their 0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:10.640 voice or you know, throw or whatever. So our body, 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:15.840 UM likes to. I don't want to. I'm not gonna. 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:17.960 I don't want to insult your business. Maybe even encourages 0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:22.400 our body is so particular. Our buddy guys Uck is 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:25.400 so particular. He's been on this show. He calls turkeys. 0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:26.640 He a lot of times. He used to be a 0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:31.240 competitive no call caller, this mouth mouth calling caller. But 0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:34.800 he's particular. So he likes to get one that's not 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:37.120 been cut because he likes to make his own little 0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:41.239 cuts in it with fly tie and scissors. Um, do 0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:42.760 you do you sell stuff for that purpose? Do you 0:31:42.800 --> 0:31:43.959 have a lot of people that like to do that 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.440 that are so finicky? We don't, I think, I mean, 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.640 and that's what It's unfortunate that, Um, you know, we're 0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:51.959 trying to design these and build him for the masses, 0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:53.680 and so I think, you know, guy sounds like he 0:31:53.760 --> 0:31:55.760 might be like a one per center, Like nobody wants 0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:57.600 they want to be able to open this. Yeah, call 0:31:57.640 --> 0:31:59.640 all the package and be ready to roll. But when 0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:01.760 you here's what I'm trying to drive at so. Then 0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:04.160 Yanni explained that he talked about what he does with 0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:07.920 his scissors again, like how he cuts that little he 0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:10.880 cuts that latex piece. Yeah, he definitely had. There was 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:13.240 a set of steps to make sure, like he would 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.800 pull it one direction, cut it and that would make 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.640 the little U and get in there, make two little 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:21.360 cuts within the U. This is all on the top read, 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:24.400 and you'd go to the far end of that piece 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.000 of a text, cut a little slit when I'm talking little, 0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:31.440 it's like micro sixteenth of an inch probably, and then 0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:35.120 shave like a sixteenth of the nich off the overhanging edge. 0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:37.320 And then as he called on it, if it was 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:40.360 too raspy, he would back off and keep cutting and 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:42.600 shorten that top read until he got the sound. He like, 0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:44.320 I need to put my reading glasses on just to 0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:47.240 think about him in there doing that, which all makes sense. 0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:49.960 I mean, the more overhanging material, the raspier then so 0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:52.280 the more you can, you know, cut that back. It's 0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:54.440 just we try to get you know, when we do 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:56.880 all of our cutting, we're trying to get the way there. 0:32:56.880 --> 0:32:58.480 That's you know, I hate to say the word good 0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:00.400 enough when we're trying to build really good calls, but 0:33:00.680 --> 0:33:02.480 you know, we get there. The thought call is good 0:33:02.560 --> 0:33:05.200 enough for guys that pull out the box. And I 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.479 wouldn't trustcent of people taking scissors to one of our 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:10.160 calls because they're gonna screwed it up in some forms. 0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:11.880 Oh yeah, I don't have Yeah. He's also told me 0:33:11.920 --> 0:33:13.840 to keep minding. He made three of them for me 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:16.200 and told me keeping the frieze fridging freezers by far 0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:19.040 the best. Yeah, freezer freezer, get him dry and then 0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:21.280 throw them in the freezer, saying with your spear gun bands? 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:25.160 Is that right? I hang mine in the garage. We're 0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:28.520 supposed to keep a spear gun band in the freezer? Huh? 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:31.400 All right, we have a little area my freezers full 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:34.360 of calls and spear gun bands. That was a common question. 0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:37.240 We had a lot we we asked for questions um 0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:40.719 for this podcast about ELK calls and calling and whatnot, 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:42.600 and a lot of people ask like how long do 0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:44.600 they last? What's the and what's the best storage? Can 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:45.959 we can we hold that of mix? I still need 0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:47.880 to put this one idea to bed, then you can 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:51.720 pick that up. When you saw the guy's upcut, were 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:54.240 you like I've seen that a thousand times that any 0:33:54.400 --> 0:33:56.440 ship or did you look at it and be like, 0:33:56.560 --> 0:33:59.320 huh no, we we make a corner cut call that 0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:01.560 has a real them were cut now where he takes 0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:03.200 it the next level when he's putting those little micro 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:05.920 cuts and he's he's releasing tension in the upper read 0:34:06.240 --> 0:34:08.880 to pull that tune in the where he wanted you. 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:11.439 Just like I said, we've seen that cut. It makes 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.040 sense on why it works the way it does. But um, 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:15.719 we just we do a corner cutting and we don't 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:18.640 put any of micro cuts in and I believe a 0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:21.080 corner cut right. What he liked about it is that 0:34:21.280 --> 0:34:23.200 he feels that I think that you can get raspy 0:34:23.360 --> 0:34:25.239 on one side of it and then blow on the 0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:27.360 other side of it and get that clean sound that 0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:29.320 would be able to do a key key run exactly. 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:31.400 And that's why the combo cuts the most popular tricky 0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:33.840 call cut because you have you have the triangle and 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:35.279 the overhanging on the left side, and then you have 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:37.200 like a clear space on the right side, and so 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.640 you can direct air at different directions on the call 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:41.680 and clean it up or out rasp Are you serious 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.719 you're doing that? Oh yeah, and and so channeling the left, right, left, right, yeah. So. 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:47.880 And I'm I'm not even a tricky call nerd compared 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:49.160 to some of these guys. Some of these guys will like, 0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:51.239 I'll get an email like, hey, I'm a right I'm 0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:55.239 a right right side blower. I'm like, um, okay, you know, 0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:56.759 I'm like, well, can't you just move there to the 0:34:56.840 --> 0:34:58.959 other side, because because we usually cut, like our combo 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:01.120 cut always put the the V and the triangle on 0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:03.000 one side of the call. He's like, can you build 0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:05.840 that call for me in reverse? Well can't? Can't you 0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:08.120 just blow the other way? You know? But some of 0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:16.719 these guys are that particular. They're they're nuts. I'm just 0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:20.960 dead center center man, Like, is it just showing cow 0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:24.040 right now where you open your mouth? No, Like, they're 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:26.920 directing either the most of the air here on the 0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:29.759 left right side of the diaphragm or the left side 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:32.160 of the diaphragm. And if you had the overhanging material 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:34.919 on this side and you directed it to the right side, 0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:38.000 you'd have cleaner sound. Or if you directed it at 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:39.759 the cut and you overhang material, you'd pick up more 0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:43.279 of that rasp. Maybe I do that stuff, but I 0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:48.759 sure don't think about it. That's that's next level Turkey column. Yeah, 0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:50.640 I'm gonna get a shirt. If your buddy guys ut 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:55.360 would to using other Turkey techniques then calling you probably 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.080 wouldn't have to mess around with any of that stuff, 0:35:57.440 --> 0:36:01.000 such as decoys and fans and things like that. He 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:03.480 doesn't like those things, so he doesn't want to know. 0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:07.160 He was impressed by my custom Turkey fan Guy. Oh 0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:11.759 is that? Oh? Sorry, I scream, no, this guy is 0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:17.000 named Guy. It was just confused the hell out of 0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:18.839 my kids name met him, like what's his name? It's 0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:24.520 like his name is Guy, and what's that guy's name? Um? 0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:30.800 He doesn't believe. He doesn't like to use decoys. Nope, 0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:33.480 but he did like my fan that I made. He 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:39.560 liked how creative and inventive it was. Remember that. Um okay, 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:41.239 and I'll go into what you're going. My my fan 0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:44.960 proved his reasoning for not using decoys. He'd rather mess 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:47.480 up with the calls or something else that he did 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:49.600 as opposed to having the decoy mess it up. And 0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:53.000 I'm like, no, but this fan works every single time. 0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:55.239 And so I went and sat down where we knew 0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:57.759 golver was coming through in the afternoons, and I saw 0:36:57.800 --> 0:36:59.920 the gobbler comment. And as soon as the Goldler got 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:02.560 within range of seeing that decoy picked up his head. 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:04.600 He looked at it, and he turned around once, looked 0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:06.520 at it, turned around again, looked at it, and then 0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:10.680 turned around the third time and walked away. The more yeah, 0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:17.000 the more I look at yours what's his name? Oh, 0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:23.640 you had a few names, dirty Harry, slim shade, the shady, 0:37:23.680 --> 0:37:29.880 the more incredulous I get. It just is like, were 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:32.799 you incredulous about how many turkeys came running to him? 0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:34.400 But the more I look at him, the more I 0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:37.960 could see that some turkeys will be like what and 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:41.520 you had that? I thought you had that problem in Wisconsin. No, 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:45.760 that's what I heard, the slim shade he was scaring 0:37:45.840 --> 0:37:48.600 him away. No, the only bird that he scared away 0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:53.680 was that one in Michigan that like guys like prophetic 0:37:53.840 --> 0:37:57.759 prophetically said that it would and then it did. All right, 0:37:57.760 --> 0:38:00.640 go on with what you're going on about. Uh, we're 0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:04.800 gonna talk about storage and length of a lifetime of 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:08.960 a call. Speak to that you know they're during use 0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:11.279 like practice, I would say, you know, six months a 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:14.479 year out of them, no problem. Turkey calls, especially flat 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:16.400 turkey called double triple reads, you're gonna get you know, 0:38:16.560 --> 0:38:18.759 years out of them. Um, it's just the way they're 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.000 design and constructed. Now like our our ELK calls the 0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:23.000 ant frames, the way we stretch out latex is a 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:25.920 lot looser so that they're more user friendly. Um, you know, 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:27.480 you get six months to a year out of it. 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.359 But I say during hunting season, you're probably switching out 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:33.320 diaphragms once every three days. Um, if you're being a 0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:36.840 lot seriously, Yeah, it's just the I mean, because so 0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.840 you make the amp frame that's meant for people that 0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:42.319 suck at calling. No, I mean we all use them too. 0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:44.799 It makes our our job really easy. It's they make 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:48.800 the right tone. But but the one downside is you 0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:51.960 stretch them so loose, the latex fairly loose in order 0:38:52.000 --> 0:38:54.640 to get that ease of use that you will tend 0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:56.600 to you know, blow them out after three days. And 0:38:56.680 --> 0:38:59.839 it's not necessarily blow them out. The diaphragm just gets 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.000 orchard when it's in your mouth all day. That's really 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.839 the driving factor on wearing that thing down fast versus 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:06.640 when you're practicing at home. You know, you picked off 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:08.520 the counter, blowing up for ten minutes, throwback on the 0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:11.319 counter and it gets a chance to dry out. Where 0:39:11.320 --> 0:39:13.080 when you're out cutting, you typically have that thing, you know, 0:39:13.120 --> 0:39:16.200 stuff in your cheek for hours on end, and that's 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:18.040 really what starts to tear that thing apart, just being 0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:21.040 wet all the time. Guys Luck warned us against eating 0:39:21.360 --> 0:39:25.920 um buffalo squirrel legs and stuff like that and then 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:29.440 using your call. Do you believe that, like just specifically 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:34.200 buffalo squirrel spicy spicy food. I'm more he says it 0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:36.799 all weak in the latex. I'm more worried about um 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:40.640 sugar sticking everything together, like you know, somebody taking especially 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:43.080 like the external cow calls. But all this stuff, you 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.000 if there's multiple layers. You know, you drinking like a 0:39:46.040 --> 0:39:47.680 gatorade and then you go blow in the car right away, 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:49.720 Well now you got sugar and every crack and everything 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:52.840 sticking and then yeah, yeah, so is that right? I 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.440 never thought of that sugary stuff, especially on the externals 0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:58.040 for sure, Like that makes us there's a mile our 0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:00.160 reads stick up, and so you know, just with out 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:02.160 some water before you go crank on a call. How 0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:03.600 do you know one is no good anymore? It doesn't 0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:06.000 sound good anymore for us. It just starts to get dead. 0:40:06.160 --> 0:40:07.560 Like you got to hit a high note bugle and 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:09.280 you're really trying to like throw it down the canyon. 0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:11.759 It's like it just kind of falls on his face. 0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:13.480 Is it cool to drive around with him on your 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.160 dashboard in the hot sun? No? Well it's cool for 0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:17.839 me as a business owner. Kids, you have to buy 0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:20.400 You're gonna have to buy some more calls. I have 0:40:20.520 --> 0:40:21.840 that problem, and a lot of times I'll get in 0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:24.320 my truck it's so hot it burns your legs. My 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:29.440 calls landing like, yeah, it's not good. Felsame calls Dash. 0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:32.680 That's our next product that's coming out is your diaphragm 0:40:32.840 --> 0:40:35.600 dash store. You're just just lyning all your diaphragms up 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:38.120 on your dash and cook them to one sixty to some. 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:43.080 I like to open up my little call pouch opening 0:40:43.160 --> 0:40:46.399 day of archery season and and then start digging through 0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:51.040 all my diaphragms that have pine needles and odd coloration 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:52.960 to them and start popping those in my mouth and 0:40:53.040 --> 0:41:00.640 being like I've found them in my clothes dryer. As 0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:03.319 soon those are not good anymore were you're leaving your 0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:06.080 pants pocket. Some of them make it through. I think, Dirk, 0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:08.560 you sent thee through. I sent one through the dryer, 0:41:08.600 --> 0:41:11.479 and it still sounds pretty good, pretty good. It wasn't 0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:15.200 fresh and articulate, but it was pretty good. Uh. Do 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:17.880 you guys get product returns where people returned that it 0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:21.400 doesn't work because they don't know how to use it. 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:22.960 We do. I usually try to take care of him 0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:25.040 in like a roundabout way or give them a different option. 0:41:25.160 --> 0:41:27.040 But you do. And it's tough because you don't want 0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:29.480 to tell the person they sucked. Would you just would 0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:30.600 you just call him on the phone and be like, 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:35.200 here's the call, here's your call. No, I've wanted to. 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:37.160 I wanted people if it wasn't so gross, sent him back, 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:38.640 and then I'm gonna send you an audio file of 0:41:38.680 --> 0:41:40.440 me using that exact call you sent back. And the 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:42.799 thing does work. But we usually take care of him. 0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:44.239 But yeah, there are a lot of people, especially this 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:46.440 time of year. You know, new caller is getting him 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:48.799 and say this thing doesn't work, and it just kind 0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:51.200 of bite your tongue and take care of him. Here's one. 0:41:51.280 --> 0:41:54.719 Here's one people call up they had bought a diaphragm, 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:57.000 used it a bit, put it back in the in 0:41:57.120 --> 0:41:59.960 the the ziplock baggy. It came in and they see 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:03.319 lit up wet, and then they like, two weeks later, 0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:07.600 this thing's moldy. It's moldy. Well you put it back 0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:12.040 in there wet for minutes. Yeah, it's gross. You can't 0:42:12.040 --> 0:42:18.399 do that. That's bad for calls, bad for phelps, bad 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:20.960 for hygiene, bad for a lot of stuff. So keep them, 0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:23.480 you like to keep them in the freezer, dry out laying. 0:42:23.520 --> 0:42:24.680 I mean, I'll just lay them on the counter for 0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:26.359 two or three hours after I use them, let them 0:42:26.400 --> 0:42:29.600 dry out and then you know. So I'm pretty fortunate. 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:31.320 I just go build new calls when I want calls, 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:33.000 you know. But if you're gonna if you're buying an 0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:36.480 investing scenes, definitely, you know, fridge and freezer, dark um, 0:42:36.600 --> 0:42:39.759 dark kitchen counter, you know, or dark um drawer, any 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.040 of that stuff will work best. Is it bad to 0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:47.360 soak them in mouthwash? It's not. It is. The acid 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:48.759 in there can definitely break them down. I know a 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:50.440 lot of people like brush them with their toothbrush at 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:52.000 the end of the year, you know, or clean them off. 0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:53.800 But I would advise not putting any you know, some 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.520 of that stuff is abrasive in your toothpaste or mouthwashing 0:42:56.560 --> 0:42:59.800 and alcohol, yeah, yeah, it's it's alcohol and you know, 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:03.600 the acidic. And I think I would stay away from 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.759 any of that sort of stuff because I've done that. 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.279 I've done it a few times. Soaked it in mouthwash, yeah, 0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:14.960 just to make sure like there's no funk growing on there. 0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:20.160 You know what, what's the most common mistake that people 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.480 make when they're trying to start learning how to call um? 0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:27.800 Keep it general, And I think the most common mistake 0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:31.000 is someone will pull it out of the package, put 0:43:31.040 --> 0:43:32.560 it in their mouth and try to do a full, 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:38.319 big nasty bugle and not succeed and be like, well, 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:40.160 I can't do this obviously, I don't know what I'm 0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:43.440 doing there. You hear that a lot. And I always 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:46.560 like to preach fundamentals, learn how to make noises first, 0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:49.799 and then turn those noises into elk calls, so we're 0:43:49.840 --> 0:43:52.680 kind of noises um. The one I like, the high 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:55.200 pitch noise, is probably the hardest, hardest one to make. 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:57.919 You kind of go to it, kind of a mosquito noise. 0:43:57.960 --> 0:43:59.839 I like to call it. Let me let me throw 0:43:59.880 --> 0:44:03.799 it all up. Here we go. It's also what you're 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:05.680 pulling out of your pocket, So I'm gonna pull out 0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:07.880 an amp read. This is the Maverick. This is the 0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:11.279 one I designed with Jason and uh, and I taught 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.360 my kids how to do to call up with the 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:16.839 same concept. So you want to make this high pitch 0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:25.399 mosquito noise, so that segues into how to calc caoll. 0:44:25.480 --> 0:44:27.120 So once you kind of figure out how to hit 0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.839 that high pitch mosquito noise, then just roll anything around 0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:32.719 in your mouth until you can do that. Yeah. And 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:36.200 then once you make that mosquito noise, relax your tongue. 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:38.560 So I just kind of let your tongue fall away 0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:48.479 and then you'll start hitting the pitches of a cal call. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:54.839 dropping your jaw right. I uh struggled with diaphragms. I mean, 0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:57.800 I'm still like, not at all remotely great, but I 0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:01.800 struggle with diaphragms for long time and then realize that 0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:04.440 I had it about a half inch too far forward, 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:08.239 And once it occurred to me where it belongs on 0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:12.040 the roof of your mouth made all the difference. Oh yeah, 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.600 you're too far back. You'll gag too far forward, it'll 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:19.080 make your tongue tickle. Yeah. So when I first started, 0:45:19.120 --> 0:45:21.560 I'm like, how could anyone ever bear this? The feeling 0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:24.239 of that? And then then I went like gradually back 0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:25.919 back back, and then more I went back back back, 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:27.800 the more I was like, Oh, this isn't like the 0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:30.120 worst thing in the world, but it's a great regret 0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:33.640 of mine not um devote more time to learn how 0:45:33.680 --> 0:45:36.200 to call. When I was younger, my brother danielays like 0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:39.840 to call docks whatever, and so it was kind of 0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:41.920 like as long as someone liked it, they just became 0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:43.480 like the person that did it, you know, and you 0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:45.719 went forced to do it. But my guy, I wish 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:47.680 like not learn in Spanish and not learning how to 0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:53.960 call better earlier or too huge missus, because it's frustrating, man, 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:56.040 it is. And then I think, you know some people 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:58.239 that spend a lot of time not necessarily being great 0:45:58.360 --> 0:45:59.719 or not doing it the right way, it's tough to 0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:01.759 like rewind and say, right, the call needs to be 0:46:01.880 --> 0:46:03.600 placed here, you need to do this. They're just kind 0:46:03.600 --> 0:46:05.360 of trapped in that, well, this is as good as 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:07.160 I'm gonna get, and then they just ride that out 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:10.200 that's pretty much where I like, I have a range 0:46:10.600 --> 0:46:14.440 of noises where I'm like they achieved the results I'm 0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:17.840 looking for. And I've basically stopped my education there and 0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:21.879 I need to like keep going. But every year I'm like, yeah, 0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:25.719 I'll just do this. And that's the beauty of it. Like, 0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:27.960 you know, guys guys like me and Dirk that can 0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:30.200 you know, call all the you know, all these sounds 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:32.920 and make all these perfect tones. I think, you know, 0:46:33.040 --> 0:46:34.799 like you just said, you're effective with what you've got. 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:36.360 I don't. You don't have to. And that's another thing 0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:38.279 that rolls right into the beginner. A lot of these 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:40.399 guys learned to call or but then they go out 0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:42.000 in the woods and are super unconfident, like they got 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:44.080 a bowl bogle and they're like, I'm not gonna call. 0:46:44.160 --> 0:46:45.680 I don't want to screw this up where it's I 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:48.400 think we've called in some horrible sounding out you know, 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:50.920 and it's just be confident and make that sound and 0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:53.920 see what happens versus new callers just they might play 0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:55.200 on the calls. They go out there and they're just 0:46:55.239 --> 0:46:58.160 silent and they they're scared to do anything. My brother 0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:01.280 and I when we first started calling. He sounded horrible. 0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:03.040 It sounds like he stepped on a rabbit and then 0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:06.279 kicked a chiaha or something. It sounded horrible, But he 0:47:06.360 --> 0:47:09.440 would he would put so much emphasis and so much 0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:12.319 emotion and into his calls and just piss off the elk. 0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:15.240 They would just come and I'm like, that sounds terrible, 0:47:15.320 --> 0:47:17.080 But man, bulls would react and they would come in. 0:47:17.160 --> 0:47:19.000 I think a lot of guys make the mistake of 0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:22.239 making that real pretty bugle over and over and over again, 0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:24.400 but there's no emotion to it. You might hear that 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:25.880 sad that guy you know in the woods, it's like 0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:30.520 over and over again. Yeah, he might get a bold answer, 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:34.279 but you don't pass them off. So step out of 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:36.840 the box and let her rip, you know, make some 0:47:37.080 --> 0:47:39.920 tones that are a little off, that's okay, as long 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:42.120 as you're putting some emotion into it. We are. It 0:47:42.200 --> 0:47:44.520 sounds like a bowl that's just making anoise for the 0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:47.680 sake of making annoyance, which they do versus the ball 0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:50.879 who's like, hey, this is where I am or where 0:47:50.920 --> 0:47:53.560 the hell are you? Guys, I'm gonna fight you. Yeah, 0:47:53.880 --> 0:47:57.000 but you hear some crazy soulence too, though. But we 0:47:57.200 --> 0:47:59.960 when we're first starting, first started Elkin. We'd sit there 0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:02.000 all the time and debate, is that a guy or 0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:04.719 an elk? Is that a guy or an elk? And 0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:08.200 I remember one time, um, we're hunting the Sapphire range 0:48:08.480 --> 0:48:13.239 and convinced ourselves that it was a guy because not 0:48:13.360 --> 0:48:16.280 only was it like you're saying just that like perfect 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:18.480 little bugle over and over and over again, but it 0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:20.520 was coming from up by a road. And we get 0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:23.520 out there and walk into you know, twenty coles and 0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:26.680 a big bull standing there, and I'm like, man, how 0:48:26.760 --> 0:48:31.440 do you know? You say you can always tell right, No, 0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:34.320 there's there's Yeah. Well I don't want to be so 0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:36.040 it's like a pride thing. I don't want to be 0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:38.040 called in by a hunter or somebody to see me 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:43.040 and say I called in Feli. So he's been like 0:48:43.080 --> 0:48:44.560 a lot of times like I'm ready to bail, like 0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:47.320 last second bail I'm getting And then here comes a 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:49.879 bull coming over the ridge and I'm like, I'm glad 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:52.840 we stuck it out. Yeah something he's gonna have his 0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:56.480 phone pointed at you to get on camera. He's using 0:48:56.520 --> 0:48:58.759 your calls. He's using your calls. You'd be like, oh, 0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:02.520 that's why I happened. Bro, Yeah, hit him another one, 0:49:02.600 --> 0:49:06.399 Johnnie Ye. Anyone is solicited these questions. That's right. Thank 0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:10.880 you for everyone that's uh helped us out and participated. Um. 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:14.359 Should we stick with the beginner type stuff while we're here? Um? 0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:20.200 What is step one? We got a lot of that, 0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:23.040 Like a lot of beginners just being like where where 0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:26.040 is step Like give me ground zero? Step one? What's 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:28.000 the first thing I need to do? I want to 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:30.800 learn how to alcohol? So, uh, you know, we do 0:49:30.880 --> 0:49:32.400 a lot of marketing. You know, we've got all of 0:49:32.400 --> 0:49:34.839 our signature calls. I would say, don't jump into those 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:36.560 right away, even though I'd love you to buy one 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:39.279 of Minor Dirk's personal calls, like start at a at 0:49:39.280 --> 0:49:41.000 a different level and I don't want to sound like 0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:43.480 a used car salesman, but get to and because what 0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:46.880 happens is, you know, there's different latex is, different thicknesses. 0:49:47.360 --> 0:49:50.439 If you maybe by the gray and don't try the black, 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:51.920 you might say, man, I suck at this, but that 0:49:52.000 --> 0:49:54.080 gray doesn't fit your calling style the way you you 0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:57.839 know apply pressure. UM. So our recommendation is typically by 0:49:58.440 --> 0:50:00.160 UM and I'm gonna get pretty specific in our own 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:02.560 line of calls here like the black AMP and gray 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:05.080 AMP and and this goes for any brand though. Hey, sorry, 0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:06.839 we've been saying AMPLE a lot, but I don't think 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:08.719 anybody knows what AMP is yet. Can you explain? So 0:50:09.080 --> 0:50:11.560 AMP is is the frame that we we developed. It's 0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:14.600 you know, it's got a bunch of amplify um aluminum 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:16.799 metal plate. There's a bunch of different acronyms we tied 0:50:16.840 --> 0:50:19.120 all into that AMP UM And so the calls that 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:21.000 that are these AMP you know, they've they've got the 0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:24.319 logo stamped on our calls. UM. But it's just it's 0:50:24.400 --> 0:50:27.800 basically got a radius hybrid plate that sits over the latex. 0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:30.080 And what that does is make the call easier to 0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:33.239 both Calcoll and Biagle. Back when we made the old 0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:35.880 school flat frames, UM, it was kind of a it 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:37.640 was a wonder it was either Calcoll or it was 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:39.120 a bowl call and then to make a call it 0:50:39.200 --> 0:50:41.400 did both. It just wasn't great at anything. So the 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:44.760 nice thing about these AMP frames is, UM they're smaller, 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:48.440 they fit they fit most people, UM, you know, narrow pallets, 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:51.080 high pallets. But it really gives us as a designer, 0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:54.040 UM or call builders um you know called it. It 0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:56.800 is good calcoll is a very good bowl call, and 0:50:56.880 --> 0:50:58.759 you don't really want anything else besides that one call. 0:50:58.840 --> 0:51:00.640 Once you find the one that fits. That's that's what 0:51:00.760 --> 0:51:02.880 the amp um. When we refer to AMP, we're just 0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:05.480 talking about the specific series of diaphragms that we make, 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.960 and that's what you recommend for any new who's like 0:51:09.760 --> 0:51:12.000 dying to get started. Yeah, unless you're like the sixties 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:14.319 seven year old guys, hause I've been using those quadruple 0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:16.879 framed calls for the last fifty years. Then we'll maybe 0:51:16.920 --> 0:51:19.279 send him over into our triple read flat. But if 0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:21.440 you're a new caller, definitely start with the single reads 0:51:21.840 --> 0:51:25.520 um in the frame. Just name a call, but name 0:51:25.560 --> 0:51:28.600 a call. They should buy black AMP and gray so 0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:31.560 they would go and be like there that is ye 0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:34.440 and so black amp. This is one of the marketing 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:36.719 genius on my part because nobody ever calls the dame 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:38.279 calls by their name. They're like, hey, I've got your 0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:40.879 one call that's was white. I want another one of those. 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:44.280 So you're like, oh, you mean the dirty Harry triple 0:51:45.000 --> 0:51:48.279 purple nerple. Yeah, So it just made sense on on 0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:50.759 the normal amp line. We just called them by their color. 0:51:50.880 --> 0:51:53.480 So you got a black that. It just makes my 0:51:53.600 --> 0:51:55.399 life way easier than happen to try to figure out 0:51:55.400 --> 0:51:57.360 what color talking about. Yeah, yeah, you'd be like, you know, 0:51:57.440 --> 0:51:59.239 what do you call it? It's the gray one? Yeah, 0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:02.160 would be the one? So that so the ant black 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:04.320 and ant gray or what we recommend all new colors. 0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:06.279 Try those, let us know which one you like. That 0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:08.279 way you don't get stuck by intent calls. It might 0:52:08.320 --> 0:52:10.160 not work for your three calls. That might not work 0:52:10.200 --> 0:52:11.879 for you when you if you tell me the ant 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:13.480 black is your go to, I'll say, all right, let's 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:16.120 get green and orange next time maybe, Or if the 0:52:16.160 --> 0:52:17.719 black is all you need that That's the other thing 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:19.520 we get Hey, man, I really love your great call? 0:52:19.840 --> 0:52:22.000 What other ones should I try? I like more great calls. 0:52:22.440 --> 0:52:24.840 It's like there, you don't don't keep like searching for 0:52:25.080 --> 0:52:27.000 like this. You know the grass isn't always green, or 0:52:27.040 --> 0:52:28.320 just if it works for you to stay with it. 0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:31.239 But um. The other thing we get into is like 0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:33.320 I don't want to oversell everybody, like, well, do you 0:52:33.360 --> 0:52:35.520 want a veagle Well you might need a veagle tube 0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:37.759 because our diaphragms need to be blowing through a vehicle tube. 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:39.960 And so then you get the questions. And so if 0:52:40.000 --> 0:52:41.399 you are going to get a bugle tube, if that's 0:52:41.400 --> 0:52:43.200 your intention is to go out there and locate bowls 0:52:43.200 --> 0:52:45.840 and call bowls in with vehicle tubes, Um, the larger 0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:48.560 Unleashed or the Renegade are going to be easier for 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:51.560 you to use. Um. We also have a backpacking version, 0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:53.720 the Unrival. That's a little guy. That thing is sweet. 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.680 It's a lot nicer, but it's it's not quite as loud, 0:52:56.800 --> 0:53:00.440 doesn't have quite deeper tones. But the one positive they carry, Yeah, 0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:02.239 it's just it's it's way less room in your pack 0:53:02.400 --> 0:53:04.160 and it still gets a job done. But a new 0:53:04.239 --> 0:53:06.240 color is going to find that the larger tubes easier 0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:07.879 for them to use. And you can beat a barrel 0:53:07.960 --> 0:53:10.759 or tohead. Yeah yeah, yeah, you can playin pint coo 0:53:10.840 --> 0:53:12.879 and baseball and during a lunch break and all kinds 0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:16.440 of stuff. Hey have you ever? Um, that's good. You 0:53:16.480 --> 0:53:19.200 could play pine cone baseball with that? Have you guys ever? 0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:20.960 I know you only sell like five of them. Do 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:24.040 you guys ever make moose tubes? We do? Um, it's 0:53:24.080 --> 0:53:25.840 just a cut off version of our bogle tubes so 0:53:26.440 --> 0:53:28.560 um every year when the draws come out. Yeah, I 0:53:28.600 --> 0:53:30.560 can almost tell when the draws come out because somebody 0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:32.560 will say, hey, will you modify me a tube from 0:53:32.560 --> 0:53:34.560 moose call, and so we just cut rather than the 0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:36.560 back pressure on the end of these larger tubes. Will 0:53:36.560 --> 0:53:38.560 just cut him at that first, so you don't get 0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:40.239 any back pressure, but you still need to be able 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:42.560 to beat brush with it. That's why it's nice to 0:53:42.560 --> 0:53:45.279 have a pretty heavy duty we yeah, we just cut 0:53:45.360 --> 0:53:48.799 him at the knuckle, um, and we don't we don't 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:50.680 mark at them, but we will make him for people. 0:53:51.280 --> 0:53:53.840 What makes this Bagle two different than just going and 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:56.000 buying a whiffleball bat and cutting the ends off in 0:53:56.080 --> 0:53:58.600 blowing through you know that whiffball bat. I'm gonna let 0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:02.440 Dirk go ahead, since so we started out with with 0:54:02.719 --> 0:54:06.279 whiffle ball bats, right, And like Phelps game calls used 0:54:06.320 --> 0:54:10.279 to sell, used to buy unbadged fat bats, you know 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.160 the little kids fat Yeah, I would buy them. I 0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:14.640 would say, Hey, they had a mold that didn't have 0:54:14.760 --> 0:54:16.719 the fat bat logo in them, send me those ones, 0:54:16.960 --> 0:54:19.240 and I would sit and modify fat bats for days 0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:21.920 in my shop. Heat them up and putting a little lip. 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:24.160 I had a big industrial ad that would put like 0:54:24.200 --> 0:54:26.239 a hole saw on poke the holes in the end, 0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:27.839 you know, sit there and run them through and cut 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:31.879 the ends off, burn them, smooth them over, um modify those. 0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:35.120 And so when I was told that fat bat was 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:37.800 no longer making or that mold was basically done, it 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:40.240 was no good anymore. It was kind of a blessing 0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.200 in disguise for me as a company, because I'm like, 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:43.879 all right, now, I've gotta go get my own mold made. 0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:46.440 And at that time, I'm like, let's take everything we 0:54:46.960 --> 0:54:49.200 we like about the bat and include it, but let's 0:54:49.239 --> 0:54:51.320 take everything we want to add to it at this 0:54:51.400 --> 0:54:55.080 point um and added in. So yeah, and the thing 0:54:55.200 --> 0:54:57.840 is the trouble with those bats, you don't get the 0:54:58.040 --> 0:55:02.080 right back pressure, and back pressure equals like good note articulation. 0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:04.399 So if you struggle hitting those high notes when you're 0:55:04.400 --> 0:55:07.400 bugling um and you know, getting those like hit that 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:10.880 staircase of notes, uh, you would struggle with one of 0:55:10.920 --> 0:55:15.480 those old bats. But with these new engineered um bugle tubes. 0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:18.960 Jason went through a lot of trial and error with 0:55:19.640 --> 0:55:22.960 what's that computer program that you did I'm a I'm 0:55:23.000 --> 0:55:24.640 a nerd. I'm gonna let everbody know I'm a nerd. 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:26.880 So I went and got charts over like you know, 0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:30.359 mail mail long capacity at different ages. And so there's 0:55:30.360 --> 0:55:32.759 a there's a program. I'm gonna let all my competitors 0:55:32.840 --> 0:55:34.560 if if they're listening, we don't have to. There's a 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:37.360 there's a program called solid works, which is basically a 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:41.040 mechanical engineering program. I could build this bat, say let's 0:55:41.040 --> 0:55:43.480 send a thirty year old males volume to this What 0:55:43.600 --> 0:55:45.440 back pressure do we get? You know, based on the 0:55:45.520 --> 0:55:47.480 inside hole. And so I could sit here as a 0:55:47.560 --> 0:55:49.600 nerd and say, all right, we want to change the shape. 0:55:49.640 --> 0:55:51.680 And I added corrugations because we didn't want all that 0:55:51.800 --> 0:55:54.680 air just flowing down the sides of that tube. So 0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:56.520 you can feel that we added corregations. We wanted to 0:55:56.560 --> 0:55:58.920 disrupt that air and get some reaver back in the tube. 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:00.600 So there's a lot of stuf if we did that 0:56:00.719 --> 0:56:03.440 was based on something, you know, explain the back pressure 0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:06.759 just a little bit more. So, Let's say you see 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:08.879 how big this tube is. For everybody that can't see, 0:56:08.920 --> 0:56:11.239 we have a four inch diameter, big, big tube. It 0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:13.560 looks like a kid's who football back. Yeah, I could 0:56:13.640 --> 0:56:16.360 knock your honest out, Yeah, twenty four in long whiffleball, 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:18.840 no problem. Or you can take let's say, like a 0:56:18.960 --> 0:56:21.839 one inch piece of PVC. Like just fundamentally you're thinking like, well, 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:23.920 that one inch PVC doesn't take near as much air, 0:56:24.000 --> 0:56:26.399 right because it's so so much smaller. But the way 0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:29.000 that works is it actually takes more air to run 0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:31.440 a diaphragm through that one inch PBC because your air 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:34.160 is just straight flowing through it. Whereas when you fill 0:56:34.200 --> 0:56:36.400 this I kind of imagine you fill this tube up 0:56:36.520 --> 0:56:38.839 with that initial amount of air and then the cup 0:56:38.920 --> 0:56:40.920 at the end actually kind of just backs the air 0:56:41.200 --> 0:56:43.200 down the tube, down the tube all the way to 0:56:43.280 --> 0:56:45.400 where your diaphragms at, and so you can kind of 0:56:45.440 --> 0:56:47.239 relax a little bit. You don't have to just run, 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:50.359 you know, a hundred percent max air through that too, 0:56:50.480 --> 0:56:52.360 because the way we've cut the end and designed that 0:56:52.440 --> 0:56:54.799 whole size, it kind of lets you relax in there. 0:56:54.880 --> 0:56:56.920 Like fifty I'm just gonna throw crazy numbers out the 0:56:58.520 --> 0:57:01.560 um air, so saying you're still getting the same volume 0:57:01.800 --> 0:57:04.600 and energy, you're just using that tube to basically assist 0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:07.520 you on running that diaphragm. Rip a couple of big bugles. 0:57:07.560 --> 0:57:10.239 You guys, what's really crazy? Like if it's called out 0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:13.240 and you're out, you just rip one big old bugle 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:14.920 and you just slight. As soon as you just slightly 0:57:15.000 --> 0:57:17.680 take your tube away from your lips, you can feel 0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:20.000 air come rush back onto your lips a little bit. 0:57:20.000 --> 0:57:22.360 You can feel that backflow, that back pressure flow onto 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:27.520 your lips. It's weird interesting. So I'll rip one first. Sorry, Jason, Yeah, 0:57:27.600 --> 0:57:32.840 just oh you got your own? Who is this? That's fine, 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:44.320 you can use it. I guess you're fired up. Gives 0:57:44.320 --> 0:57:59.800 me a little run. You're picking that up? Phil? Oh, yeah, 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:06.280 behind your little curtain over there. Pretty much of everybody listening. 0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:09.000 That was a blue call and a red call. So 0:58:09.240 --> 0:58:11.160 if you want to sound like that, you gotta buy 0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:14.360 the blue call. This was like a batch I just 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:18.280 made for the World Calling Championship. Scratch scratch at Kyl said, 0:58:18.360 --> 0:58:22.960 I was blown on a pink call. What we just 0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:25.560 got back last weekend from the World Out Calling Championships 0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:29.000 in Park City, Utah? So what goes on at that? So? 0:58:29.080 --> 0:58:30.840 I noticed someone asked about that. You see how good 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:34.000 hosting that was? Honest? I was gonna mention it. You're 0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:36.680 gonna you're gonna point out the hosting skills. Uh yeah, 0:58:36.760 --> 0:58:38.800 what goes out to the world alcohol get up on 0:58:39.000 --> 0:58:42.040 stage and called the seven judges behind the screen like 0:58:42.160 --> 0:58:45.040 Phil is right now? Yeah, yeah, Phil wouldn't know, so 0:58:45.120 --> 0:58:47.360 he wouldn't have known who Dirk or I was right there, 0:58:47.360 --> 0:58:49.200 and he would he would try to tell you who 0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:53.200 he thought was better, the first caller calling him so, 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:57.520 and you guys are competing, Yeah, we were not judging. 0:58:57.560 --> 0:59:00.320 But Dirk, Dirk absolutely hates the fact, and he doesn't 0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:02.720 want me to ever reference it. But you're six time 0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:06.240 world champion. I don't know. He hates he hates that fact. 0:59:06.320 --> 0:59:07.720 He hates to use it for anything because you don't 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:09.880 you don't like sound like a blow hard. He'd rather 0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:12.280 like take pictures in September behind the dead bull is 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:16.680 his his prize. But but you okay, so yeah, I've 0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:20.360 won it several times in the men's division, right, the 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:28.080 men's four years ago, Damien had all the call offs 0:59:28.120 --> 0:59:31.080 three ago, four years ago, four years ago, I won 0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:32.720 first yea And where do you win when you win 0:59:33.400 --> 0:59:35.160 cash prizes and then you win a bunch of cool 0:59:35.200 --> 0:59:40.240 crap you know, rifle scopes and bows and rifles and 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:42.720 just depends on the package they put together for the year. 0:59:42.760 --> 0:59:46.000 But I've won rifles before, and um, we can't want to. 0:59:46.280 --> 0:59:48.040 I don't think I ever wont to bow. But how 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:51.640 many times did you win the World Championship? Like six times? Seriously? Yeah, 0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:56.480 but I lost a lot more more times than I've 0:59:56.560 --> 0:59:59.160 ever won it. I mean I've started competing in nineties six, 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:03.840 I think, are you feeling me in forty five? I 1:00:04.800 --> 1:00:08.600 hate it? Yeah, I got a weird Uh, I got 1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:12.400 weird aches and pains. Yeah. One War one is right 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:16.600 now and there. I would never have to a guy 1:00:16.640 --> 1:00:21.400 like Seth. Huh, Like it's like a something weird pinch 1:00:21.520 --> 1:00:24.400 nerve in there because I'm doing the armstrong pull up regimen. 1:00:25.160 --> 1:00:27.960 It's getting painful. Are you Are you keeping up with 1:00:28.040 --> 1:00:33.400 the pushups? I haven't doing that part of it. I 1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:35.400 gotta barn my house and I hung two at work. 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:40.160 I hit that one up upstairs yesterday. You know, sure 1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:43.480 the production team really likes your placement. Oh, is there 1:00:43.480 --> 1:00:46.040 a problem with the placement? No? You know one of 1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:47.880 our colleagues thought that me and Seth hung it up 1:00:47.920 --> 1:00:49.560 to hang beavers. From which I'm like, what the hell 1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:53.320 kind of beavers you think we're I think it's a 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:57.960 fair question. Yeah, we've been flashing beaver hides in the 1:00:58.000 --> 1:01:00.200 morning a little bit. We've got a few of them done. Yeah, 1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:02.600 someone thoughtles for beaver hanging, like how the people gonna 1:01:02.640 --> 1:01:04.960 get through here when you hang beavers from that? It's 1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:08.280 just a pull up bar. But yeah, I don't know. Man, 1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:11.439 So you'd like being forty five, you think it's it's hard. 1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:14.280 It sucks, you know, you just just you can't build 1:01:14.400 --> 1:01:16.440 muscle mass like you could before. It's hard to get 1:01:16.480 --> 1:01:18.840 back into shape. I mean a guys should probably stay 1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:21.640 in shape year around, but rounds of shape too, and 1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:23.720 I kind of tend to go that way in the wintertime. 1:01:24.280 --> 1:01:28.160 But h man, I wish I knew back when I 1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:29.800 was in my twenties what I know now and have, 1:01:30.040 --> 1:01:32.280 like the gear, the quality calls and the gear and 1:01:32.320 --> 1:01:35.720 stuff that had back when I was twenty. I wish 1:01:35.760 --> 1:01:39.240 I had him back then. Man Idaho had tons of 1:01:39.280 --> 1:01:42.120 beautiful elk back then, not not not so much anymore. 1:01:42.400 --> 1:01:45.600 It would have been it would have been awesome, but hindsight, 1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:49.040 so I'll tell my brother the other day man. I 1:01:49.120 --> 1:01:52.120 was like, dude, we live through the good old days. Man. Yeah, 1:01:52.400 --> 1:01:55.400 it's crazy because I get older every year and it 1:01:55.440 --> 1:01:58.240 seems like the hunts I go on are harder and 1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:00.480 harder every year. Like not just because my age, but 1:02:01.520 --> 1:02:04.680 we were going to like some nasty, nasty places before 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:07.040 we kill elk in a lot easier places, and now 1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:10.480 it's just like to to get them consistently. We're going 1:02:10.600 --> 1:02:14.600 to some stupid places. And I'm like, I thought when 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:16.240 you got old, you kind of got to go back 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:18.280 to the easy stuff again. And I'm like, when is 1:02:18.320 --> 1:02:20.600 that going to happen? So, yeah, well I think a 1:02:20.680 --> 1:02:23.040 lot of guys get old and with age comes like 1:02:23.160 --> 1:02:26.160 you get become more financially secure, and so you just 1:02:26.200 --> 1:02:29.040 start hunting private land. I don't think I can do that, 1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:31.440 which just I mean, it's a thing that happens, right 1:02:32.600 --> 1:02:35.760 because you're like, you know, we'd be like, I think 1:02:35.840 --> 1:02:38.600 nothing that we'd walk nine miles and carry a cow 1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:41.280 out right, you know, and you don't like you don't 1:02:41.360 --> 1:02:43.560 run into a lot of seven year old dudes doing that. Now. 1:02:45.160 --> 1:02:46.560 I don't know. I'm trying to figure out how much 1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:48.120 longer I mean I got I'm playing on having a 1:02:48.200 --> 1:02:52.360 lot more left in me. But if I live, if 1:02:52.400 --> 1:02:54.360 I live all the years I've been alive over again, 1:02:54.400 --> 1:03:00.080 I'll be dead, right, Yeah, and that I don't like 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:04.600 the feeling. Yeah, I got a buddy. His dad's pushing seventy, 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:08.400 so he'd be a hundred forty. Yeah. He's a tough 1:03:08.440 --> 1:03:11.800 old bird. I mean, that guy hunts some nasty Idaho 1:03:11.920 --> 1:03:14.800 back country, very few elk, lots of wolves, you know, 1:03:15.560 --> 1:03:18.120 and they consistently killed bowls, you know. But he's just 1:03:18.240 --> 1:03:20.280 a tough old guy. And he's had any surgeries and 1:03:20.320 --> 1:03:24.200 back surgeries and everything, but he just he's just like, 1:03:24.360 --> 1:03:27.360 I'm gonna do this until I can't possibly walk up 1:03:27.360 --> 1:03:29.280 the trail anymore. When I meet if I meet a guy, 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:31.760 like when I meet an older feller and he can 1:03:31.840 --> 1:03:33.760 form a pretty good sentence and still does a lot 1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:36.360 of hunting, and was like, how old you? And if 1:03:36.400 --> 1:03:42.920 he says like sixty five, like sweet year, twenty more years? 1:03:43.040 --> 1:03:48.320 You know how old you? Now? Seth, I'm gonna in August, 1:03:48.600 --> 1:03:53.400 My goodness, I'm oldost to be your daddy. Not quite. 1:03:54.160 --> 1:04:03.800 It's sure, yeah, like physiologically sure it is possible, but 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:07.439 in our generation, not well that's not true. I guess 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:09.520 there were a few dudes that made babies that early, 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:13.360 but not most people were. I mean, but I remember 1:04:13.440 --> 1:04:15.640 by the time I finished high school. Remember four girls 1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:18.400 would when I was finishing high school, there were four 1:04:18.440 --> 1:04:21.240 girls that would their moms that bring their babies down 1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:24.400 to show them off at the end of school, at 1:04:24.400 --> 1:04:29.600 the end of the school day. Yeah, there's a lot 1:04:29.680 --> 1:04:40.040 of the attrition too from drinking and driving. Oh yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:43.000 I think that's changed a little bit too now, I 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:44.880 mean within your high school. This has nothing to do 1:04:45.000 --> 1:04:48.400 with kids from high school getting killed off from drinking, 1:04:48.680 --> 1:04:52.840 from just vehicle accidents, drinking and driving whatnot. Anyhow, what's 1:04:52.880 --> 1:04:55.240 the next one you got? Johnnie? Were straight a little bit. 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:57.960 Let's get into some tactics. Let's there's anything else you 1:04:58.000 --> 1:05:03.080 guys want to say about the the immediately quickly transit. 1:05:03.240 --> 1:05:07.200 You touched on birth, new life, just briefly before you 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:14.320 got into just death. That's called premier hosting. I don't 1:05:14.320 --> 1:05:16.919 want to leave everyone on a negative note. I talk 1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:21.960 about young people having babies. Jason, can you overcall an elk? 1:05:22.240 --> 1:05:25.160 And how do you know if you've done it? That's 1:05:25.160 --> 1:05:27.760 a good one. Everybody says, don't call it too much. 1:05:29.240 --> 1:05:30.880 So I'm gonna break I'm gonna break this down in 1:05:31.000 --> 1:05:33.360 two segments, like location. I don't think you can overlocate 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:35.200 like the things you're either going to answer you or 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:37.520 it's not like I can locate through another locator, like 1:05:37.640 --> 1:05:39.720 they're elk down there, down there. I think when you 1:05:39.840 --> 1:05:41.840 move in close and you know, you get set up 1:05:41.840 --> 1:05:43.040 and try to call this bull, and I think you 1:05:43.080 --> 1:05:46.000 can overcall um. You know, sometimes they're you know, playing 1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:48.080 the game. They're wanting you to respond, or they're wanting 1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:50.240 to respond, or they're moving in close, and that bull 1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:52.480 I think silent sometimes is your best key. You let 1:05:52.600 --> 1:05:54.320 him know I'm within a hundred yards of you, and 1:05:54.360 --> 1:05:56.400 that thing gets, you know, somewhat curious to come find you. 1:05:56.560 --> 1:05:58.960 Versus if you keep hammering or to keep calling, you're 1:05:58.960 --> 1:06:00.880 gonna that bull is just gonna potentially take his cows 1:06:00.880 --> 1:06:02.600 and go away. What do you think he's thinking when 1:06:02.600 --> 1:06:04.600 you overcall? Is he thinking that's a mug or is 1:06:04.640 --> 1:06:06.640 he thinking that this is some crazy elk that I 1:06:06.680 --> 1:06:11.400 don't feel like dealing with. I think he just doesn't 1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:13.240 want to lose his cows, This crazy bull that's down 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:15.160 there calling. I think that's more of his you know, 1:06:15.600 --> 1:06:17.200 he's he's gonna grab his cows and try to get 1:06:17.200 --> 1:06:18.320 out of here. If you're just gonna sit in that 1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:21.000 one spot, um, you know, something out of the out 1:06:21.040 --> 1:06:22.480 of the box stuff. I know you hunt out of 1:06:22.520 --> 1:06:24.600 the box as well, Derek sometimes, but you like just 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:26.800 bueling as you walk towards the bull. Yeah, you risk 1:06:26.960 --> 1:06:28.960 me out of the box. So not just I mean 1:06:29.040 --> 1:06:30.560 we do all these seminars and stuff like, oh, you 1:06:30.600 --> 1:06:34.320 set up seven yards away, so I'm just I'm just 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:36.240 gonna be biggle and keep walking at you, you know, 1:06:36.360 --> 1:06:37.960 and some of this stuff and that bowls like, well, 1:06:38.000 --> 1:06:39.440 now he's coming, I'm gonna have to go deal with him. 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:41.720 Versus if I sat at a hundred twenty yards biggle 1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:43.240 bigle bagles, he's like, well, I'm just gonna grab my 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:44.680 cows and get out of here. That thinks not coming 1:06:44.720 --> 1:06:48.080 any closer. Versus, if you were to bagle that same 1:06:48.080 --> 1:06:50.120 amount but start walking towards him, it could be a 1:06:50.160 --> 1:06:52.840 completely different situation because now he has no other chance 1:06:53.160 --> 1:06:55.920 choice but to deal with you. Um. So yeah, I 1:06:55.920 --> 1:06:59.120 think you can definitely overcall elk Um. Typically I think 1:06:59.320 --> 1:07:00.960 at the point I know what were called elk is 1:07:01.000 --> 1:07:03.000 when his next bugles hundred fifty yards and then he's 1:07:03.040 --> 1:07:05.520 two hundred yards and um, you know, typically then we'll 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:08.000 have to reset up, move closer, and then try to 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:10.760 do it again. Do you when you're calling to an 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:14.800 elk and all of a sudden he splits, do you 1:07:14.840 --> 1:07:17.800 feel it as possible to say he splits because he 1:07:17.880 --> 1:07:19.880 still thinks I'm an elk, but he's grabbing his cows 1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:24.680 and going, Or he splits because he's just suspicious. No, 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:28.320 I think I think you um could definitely stay with him. 1:07:28.360 --> 1:07:30.520 He just doesn't want to lose his cows. So there's 1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:32.840 been many times where we've called bulls and on the fourth, fifth, 1:07:32.840 --> 1:07:34.480 sixth set up where we're just kind of shadowing him, 1:07:34.480 --> 1:07:36.920 trying to get closer and closer and push his buttons, 1:07:37.440 --> 1:07:38.960 and all of a sudden he's like, Okay, now I'll 1:07:39.040 --> 1:07:42.760 finally turn. Yeah. I feel like sometimes too, he'll get 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:46.480 those stalemates and those bulls will want you to show yourself. 1:07:46.840 --> 1:07:48.920 They're like, all right, I've came all this far, It's 1:07:48.960 --> 1:07:52.040 time for you to come my way a bit. Because 1:07:52.080 --> 1:07:54.800 he doesn't when he doesn't want to get shot and killed. Well, 1:07:55.160 --> 1:07:57.040 if he believe in the calls, though, he thinks you're 1:07:57.040 --> 1:07:58.480 a bull and if and if you watch a lot 1:07:58.560 --> 1:08:00.600 of elk behavior, they kind of they kind of like 1:08:00.680 --> 1:08:02.400 to check each other out a little bit. Maybe kind 1:08:02.440 --> 1:08:04.200 of they do that little walk thing by each other 1:08:04.360 --> 1:08:05.680 and kind of show each other off. And it's like, 1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:07.040 I don't know if I want a fighter. I do, 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:09.960 And then they decide to fight, and I think, um, 1:08:11.840 --> 1:08:13.480 they want that leap of faith. It's like, all right, 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:16.679 I've came this far. You gotta give me something, show 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:21.000 yourself or come closer. Um. And sometimes if if you 1:08:21.040 --> 1:08:23.120 don't show yourself and you've had a stalemate, let's say 1:08:23.160 --> 1:08:25.120 that bulls fifty yards, you can't see him in this 1:08:25.280 --> 1:08:27.880 kind of thick timber or something, and then they sometimes 1:08:27.960 --> 1:08:30.720 just kind of move off. I think he thinks you're 1:08:30.720 --> 1:08:32.760 a coward at that points, like you talk pretty tough, 1:08:32.800 --> 1:08:35.760 but you never really showed yourself. So usually if they're 1:08:35.800 --> 1:08:38.680 trying to leave, I'm running at him. I'm taking off 1:08:38.720 --> 1:08:41.320 after him. I rip a big nasty challenge bogle, and 1:08:41.360 --> 1:08:44.479 I'm I'm running towards them to say, hey, where the 1:08:44.600 --> 1:08:46.880 heck you going? Man? Come back. I want to fight, 1:08:47.680 --> 1:08:52.120 and I've done this a lot, and that's like, that's 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:56.360 like having a really good understanding of his temperament. Man, Yeah, 1:08:56.479 --> 1:08:58.280 it's cool. I kind of go all in on onto 1:08:58.320 --> 1:09:01.000 those deals. It's like every time might play play the 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:03.720 the Elk game, you know, back and forth, biggling with 1:09:03.800 --> 1:09:05.800 this bowl, It's like, I'm going all in this is 1:09:06.160 --> 1:09:07.960 this is a one shot deal. I'm probably not going 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:09.680 to come back to him and it come you know, 1:09:09.840 --> 1:09:13.000 just kind of tiptoe around the edges and then maybe 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:15.280 have something happen and if it don't work I'll come 1:09:15.280 --> 1:09:16.840 back in a day or two and try him again. 1:09:17.080 --> 1:09:19.040 Now I'm gonna go in there, and because what do 1:09:19.040 --> 1:09:21.439 we elk do? They Usually they go back and forth, 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:24.519 they come together, they fight, they figure it out, and 1:09:24.560 --> 1:09:26.680 then they go their separate way. So I'm gonna go 1:09:26.800 --> 1:09:29.040 up there, get get in his face and try to 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:31.360 push him, trying to make him mad, appeal to his anger, 1:09:31.439 --> 1:09:33.679 make him make a mistake where he finally just says, 1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:35.639 heck with, I'm so mad at you. I'm not gonna 1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:37.760 pay attention to wind. I'm just gonna come in a 1:09:37.800 --> 1:09:40.439 straight line to come right to you. So well, I 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:42.679 guess he's I'm trying to ask. I'm not asking it clearly. 1:09:44.880 --> 1:09:48.960 I like a thing that's rolling around in my head though, 1:09:49.560 --> 1:09:52.320 is spooking him meaning revealing to him that you are 1:09:52.360 --> 1:09:56.679 not in fact and elk? Yeah? Yeah, how much? By calling? 1:09:57.240 --> 1:10:00.479 By calling, by running at him, by potentially And so 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:03.840 it's like, I think that that one of the ways 1:10:03.840 --> 1:10:07.160 it prevents people from getting super aggressive or running after 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:09.680 an ELK or doing these different things is because you're 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:13.320 not trying to reveal your hand. So is that obviously 1:10:13.400 --> 1:10:15.639 that's floating around in the back of your head too, right, Yeah, 1:10:15.920 --> 1:10:18.080 it's like the last ditch offer. I always believe in 1:10:18.120 --> 1:10:20.680 my calling all the way to to the end. He's 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:23.320 never gonna spook away from the calling, but he's spook 1:10:23.360 --> 1:10:26.080 away if he sees me. So you don't think that, Like, 1:10:26.160 --> 1:10:29.280 if you're a passible caller, you think that even if 1:10:29.320 --> 1:10:32.519 he leaves and it takes off, you don't you don't 1:10:32.560 --> 1:10:34.640 think that that elk, that that bowl is like, I 1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:38.200 don't buy it. I think that's a person because he's 1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:40.639 doing weird stuff. Maybe if you're hunting in an area 1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:42.840 where there's he's had a lot of human contact where 1:10:42.880 --> 1:10:46.360 he's been messed with before, maybe spooked around, but sended 1:10:46.439 --> 1:10:48.600 some guy after he's been bugling. I always wonder do 1:10:48.680 --> 1:10:51.559 they even know, Like I'm over here bugling and then 1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:53.600 let's say the wind changes and he sends me and 1:10:53.680 --> 1:10:56.800 takes off. Does he think that's a dude over there 1:10:56.880 --> 1:10:59.160 buglan or is that an elk? And then some guy 1:10:59.280 --> 1:11:02.160 snuck up here and I smelled a human. I mean, 1:11:02.360 --> 1:11:05.120 I don't always wonder what he's gotten going on in 1:11:05.200 --> 1:11:07.080 his head. We were one time bear hunting and we 1:11:07.200 --> 1:11:11.160 hung our food up in a tree, and we came 1:11:11.200 --> 1:11:14.439 back and there was a pine squirrel eating a block 1:11:14.479 --> 1:11:18.160 of cheddar, and then we ran after it, screaming to 1:11:18.200 --> 1:11:20.600 get our cheddar back. And I always wondered if he 1:11:20.680 --> 1:11:23.640 thought this is the weirdest day he'd ever experienced, like 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:26.120 one that you found a block of chatter and then 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:28.400 to some dudes showed up, or if he put together 1:11:28.600 --> 1:11:31.760 like that was your cheddar, that I found these guys 1:11:31.880 --> 1:11:34.640 chatter and they showed up, like when he recounts that 1:11:34.760 --> 1:11:37.160 to his friends, Or maybe he thought he like a 1:11:37.200 --> 1:11:39.960 man when it rains it storms, because then he thought 1:11:40.000 --> 1:11:42.200 you wanted to steal his cheddar. Oh yeah, he's like, 1:11:42.240 --> 1:11:44.240 you know, strange thing. I found some cheddar and then 1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:49.040 some people can even stole my cheddar. Yeah. I never 1:11:49.080 --> 1:11:50.880 thought that's a good point. The elks, Like, no, there 1:11:50.960 --> 1:11:53.040 was a elk he was bugling, but then some guy 1:11:53.160 --> 1:11:57.880 showed up and I ran off right, which there's been 1:11:57.960 --> 1:12:02.960 times where they've winded me or us, and in a 1:12:03.080 --> 1:12:06.400 little while later we kind of took back in with 1:12:06.560 --> 1:12:09.439 our bugling match, you know, back and forth. And I 1:12:09.479 --> 1:12:11.680 don't know if that elk was just super dumb and 1:12:12.240 --> 1:12:15.519 not used to smelling people, or if he actually thought, well, 1:12:15.640 --> 1:12:18.680 that's that bowl and that dude's probably gone now. I 1:12:18.720 --> 1:12:20.600 don't know. But most of the time, when they smell you, 1:12:20.760 --> 1:12:22.760 it's it's a game over. It's it's over. But there's 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:25.479 been a couple of times it's like, wow, why did 1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:28.320 this work this time? I mean, if you spooking elk, 1:12:28.360 --> 1:12:30.599 how long do you wait? Like let's say you knew 1:12:30.600 --> 1:12:32.120 you got a elk in a basin and he's kind 1:12:32.120 --> 1:12:33.599 of hanging around there, and you're going and you bump 1:12:33.680 --> 1:12:36.160 them because you blow them out, and then all of 1:12:36.160 --> 1:12:38.000 a sudden, the next day he's bugling back in there again. 1:12:38.040 --> 1:12:39.800 Are you Like, Man, I'm gonna wait three days until 1:12:39.840 --> 1:12:42.920 he totally forgets. I'll give him a couple of days. 1:12:43.320 --> 1:12:46.280 I'm going that next day public Land. Man, it's tough 1:12:46.680 --> 1:12:49.760 because you don't have it to yourself. But I've done that, 1:12:49.960 --> 1:12:51.519 waited the two or three days and have some other 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:55.280 guy walking there and kill him. So maybe you should 1:12:55.280 --> 1:12:58.479 go in the next day. So you know, there's all 1:12:58.520 --> 1:13:02.679 these areas, right, it's like, oh, yeah, you can't bugle 1:13:03.040 --> 1:13:06.160 like you will not you can't call elk here right. 1:13:06.479 --> 1:13:09.200 Growing up in Montana, Missouri, Breakes is like, oh, lots 1:13:09.240 --> 1:13:11.439 of bulls in the brakes, big bulls, but you can't 1:13:11.520 --> 1:13:15.920 call elk. And then going down and working in New Mexico, 1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:19.960 same deal, like, oh yeah, you just can't call these 1:13:20.000 --> 1:13:23.479 bulls in you know they're educated. In Arizona too, it's like, oh, 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:26.160 you can't call in big bulls because you're saying because 1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:33.120 they're educated. My impression was always like I cannot call 1:13:33.200 --> 1:13:37.880 in a bowl, which means nobody else can call me 1:13:38.040 --> 1:13:39.760 like they hear because you hear that too, Like they 1:13:39.800 --> 1:13:42.480 hear a call and they go the other direction, yes, exactly, 1:13:42.640 --> 1:13:45.519 or these bulls know each other so well. That any 1:13:45.640 --> 1:13:50.280 new bugle is just like an alarm. I don't buy it. Yeah, 1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:52.880 I've talked to some guy, you know, even the even 1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:55.200 the you know, the big outfitters and stuff. Oh you 1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:57.360 can only cal called our bulls down here in Arizona 1:13:57.400 --> 1:13:59.360 and stuff. And I've talked to some new buddies, like 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:01.040 I would love to see you guys come down here 1:14:01.040 --> 1:14:03.240 and hunt your style. Like everybody tells you guys you can't. 1:14:03.240 --> 1:14:04.600 But He's like, you guys would come down here and 1:14:05.200 --> 1:14:07.920 run through this place and have a good time. I 1:14:08.000 --> 1:14:09.519 just want, I just want the challenge of you know, 1:14:09.600 --> 1:14:11.720 going to I want to New Mexico and the same thing. 1:14:12.240 --> 1:14:13.880 You can't call these bulls. They come to water, they 1:14:13.920 --> 1:14:16.400 go bed, that's their life. And we had I mean 1:14:16.479 --> 1:14:19.280 we called in, you know, two or three bulls every morning, 1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:21.720 you know, bulls every night. It was just incredible. And 1:14:21.840 --> 1:14:24.160 I don't believe any of that stuff. Um, I just 1:14:24.280 --> 1:14:26.360 I don't. I think those guys just hunt different, like 1:14:26.400 --> 1:14:28.720 it's a different different mindset or people here it and 1:14:28.720 --> 1:14:30.200 they get down there and get scared to do it 1:14:30.360 --> 1:14:32.160 they would do up here, And I just want to 1:14:32.160 --> 1:14:33.960 go down there and rip out him. And it worked 1:14:34.840 --> 1:14:36.880 in New Mexico where I hunted. I got a buddy 1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:39.479 that he was told, oh, yeah, you can't bugle bulls 1:14:39.520 --> 1:14:41.800 in Arizona, and that he's had two Arizona tags and 1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:44.720 both times he said, we we called bulls in all 1:14:44.760 --> 1:14:47.080 day long, every day. They were just they come screaming 1:14:47.120 --> 1:14:49.800 in like nowhere else. I don't know what people are thinking. 1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:53.240 So part of the head game no different than fishing. 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:56.880 I think, you know, calling out in really open country though, 1:14:57.200 --> 1:14:59.479 is difficult. You know, it's more of a you gotta 1:14:59.479 --> 1:15:01.160 be a lot, use a lot of strategy before you 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:03.800 can't just go I can see help three hundred yards 1:15:03.840 --> 1:15:05.880 will and blow your bugle and they're probably not gonna 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:07.760 just come running to you. I mean because because they 1:15:07.760 --> 1:15:10.880 want to see it, they want that visual. Yeah, yeah, 1:15:11.400 --> 1:15:12.880 I think you need to get in tight, use some 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:15.720 terrain features, be like you know, shadow the herd, use 1:15:15.760 --> 1:15:18.880 some train features to where you get close like they're 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:20.519 just on the back side of a little ridge or 1:15:20.680 --> 1:15:23.280 a coolie or something. And then you do some calls 1:15:23.320 --> 1:15:25.040 and then wait for them to have to come up 1:15:25.080 --> 1:15:27.160 to investigate, and then be possession to where you can 1:15:27.240 --> 1:15:29.720 make that shot. But you just can't bugle from three 1:15:29.760 --> 1:15:33.439 hundred yards away. That's like calling too much. You're standing 1:15:33.479 --> 1:15:35.519 at a burn bull stand over their bugle at you, 1:15:35.760 --> 1:15:38.200 and you're kind of pinned down. You don't you can't 1:15:38.320 --> 1:15:41.880 just continue making calls because they're looking. They might not 1:15:42.080 --> 1:15:44.599 see you, but like, there's no welk over here. They 1:15:44.640 --> 1:15:47.080 know exactly where you're at. I'm gonna bugle a couple 1:15:47.200 --> 1:15:50.000 more times and see if there's any elk there, But 1:15:50.080 --> 1:15:52.320 then they're like, there's nothing there, and then they then 1:15:52.360 --> 1:15:54.240 they kind of take off and then they make It 1:15:54.439 --> 1:15:57.840 makes them pretty tough to call at that point because 1:15:57.880 --> 1:16:00.240 then they're just suspicious. Yeah, they're just like and I 1:16:00.280 --> 1:16:02.800 don't I don't buy that. I like that what you're 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:06.479 saying about getting in their zone, you know. Um, what 1:16:06.560 --> 1:16:09.080 I always like about it. And this same thing with 1:16:09.360 --> 1:16:12.599 turkeys or whatever is uh, when it's far away, it's 1:16:12.640 --> 1:16:14.880 like you don't really know what their response is. But 1:16:14.920 --> 1:16:16.720 the when you get close to something and called to it, 1:16:16.920 --> 1:16:19.920 you kind of quickly like find out this is a 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:22.040 this is this a thing or not? You know what 1:16:22.080 --> 1:16:25.200 I mean? It always feels good. We're hunting in Kentucky 1:16:25.600 --> 1:16:28.200 and had an elk tag in Kentucky. And yeah, we're 1:16:28.200 --> 1:16:30.840 just saying eating lunch, weren't we And you're honest, ripped 1:16:30.840 --> 1:16:34.920 a bugle and I mean this bullet walked up because 1:16:34.920 --> 1:16:36.400 he couldn't have taken three steps. But it was like 1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:38.240 we're just having a bugle right on top of him, 1:16:38.880 --> 1:16:41.559 like up out of his bed. Oh right right right, 1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:43.120 come ore with check us out. Because he's like, dude, 1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:44.720 that think is right on top of me. Man, you know, 1:16:44.760 --> 1:16:46.640 and he like had to deal with it. You know, 1:16:47.080 --> 1:16:49.240 you had to pay attention to it. And that's that's 1:16:49.320 --> 1:16:51.600 I mean, at least our strategy hunting with Dirk. You know, 1:16:51.680 --> 1:16:54.400 we're just we're trying to create that threat. Get sixty 1:16:54.439 --> 1:16:56.519 seven yards. Yeah, it doesn't sound like you're calling that bulling. 1:16:56.640 --> 1:16:58.360 You know, it's not as cool to call him in 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:01.120 from a mile away. But um, part of our strategies 1:17:01.200 --> 1:17:03.560 to get like in their lap and forced them to 1:17:03.600 --> 1:17:07.400 come deal with us. Um, they're pretty territorial. You know, 1:17:07.760 --> 1:17:10.800 let's say they don't have cows. There's that transition phase 1:17:10.840 --> 1:17:13.000 of the route where the bulls haven't left their little 1:17:13.240 --> 1:17:16.160 little bull bedrooms throughout the drainage. They've got their little 1:17:16.280 --> 1:17:20.160 their little home and you go from the top of 1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:22.640 the drainage. They won't answer. You get down in, you 1:17:22.720 --> 1:17:25.400 start dissecting that drainage. You go start hiking and through 1:17:25.439 --> 1:17:28.040 the bedroom betting areas of those things. You get within 1:17:28.040 --> 1:17:30.280 a hundred two hundred yards of them, you'll get a 1:17:30.320 --> 1:17:33.400 reply and they're not happy that you're there. It's like, 1:17:33.479 --> 1:17:36.599 hey man, this is my spot. And a lot of times, um, 1:17:36.840 --> 1:17:39.160 they'll get pretty aggressive and come in after just a 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:42.040 little bit of calling. But the consequence of hunting a 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:46.120 betting area, you screwed up. They're they're gone. So I 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:48.639 think what everybody wants to know is what works one 1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:53.800 percent of the time. Oh no, he told it. I 1:17:54.040 --> 1:17:57.640 put this to him before kind of and uh. He 1:17:58.000 --> 1:18:01.760 described the situation in a He described a situation which 1:18:01.800 --> 1:18:04.240 he would be surprised to not be able to move 1:18:04.320 --> 1:18:08.479 that bull in his direction. You did say it works. 1:18:09.520 --> 1:18:12.360 That was that was more of your like a scenario. Yeah, 1:18:12.439 --> 1:18:14.120 it was like, it wasn't your mature herd bowls. It 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:17.439 was a semimature satellite bowl that's off by his own 1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:19.840 feeding by himself during the middle of the Yet I 1:18:19.840 --> 1:18:24.280 would be sure I call that bolling. Yeah, I like 1:18:24.439 --> 1:18:27.120 that if I can find him if I can find 1:18:27.240 --> 1:18:29.920 him feeding on a pretty grass slope all by himself 1:18:30.040 --> 1:18:31.559 during the middle of the right when we let him 1:18:31.560 --> 1:18:33.400 pick he could be above it, below it, what it 1:18:33.479 --> 1:18:35.840 was doing, who it was with the whole situation. And 1:18:35.920 --> 1:18:37.720 he was saying that he yeah, he was. I could 1:18:37.760 --> 1:18:40.439 move that bowl. If I could find that unicorn, I'll 1:18:40.520 --> 1:18:44.040 bet on myself. But when Dirk was like, well, you know, 1:18:44.120 --> 1:18:46.120 you're just not going to make like these big, clear, 1:18:46.280 --> 1:18:49.040 articulate sounds, and I was thinking to myself, well, that's 1:18:49.040 --> 1:18:54.720 not the ball I'm looking for. Somebody is much less articulate, 1:18:54.920 --> 1:19:01.200 like quite know what's going on. Um, you guys sound 1:19:01.240 --> 1:19:03.400 like your bugle a lot more than your cal call, 1:19:03.840 --> 1:19:06.040 because Derek, you sound like every call you've made so 1:19:06.160 --> 1:19:09.040 far describing these scenarios is all bugle, and speak to 1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:11.439 that a little. But so I wanna I wanna appeal 1:19:11.479 --> 1:19:15.960 to that bulls uh instincts to fight rather than to breed, 1:19:16.479 --> 1:19:18.880 it seems like, you know, And there's a hundred different 1:19:18.880 --> 1:19:21.320 ways to skin a cat. And there's probably guys that 1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:23.599 have cow called in twice as many elk and kill 1:19:23.640 --> 1:19:25.920 twice as many elk. Is me just with cal calls. 1:19:26.600 --> 1:19:29.360 But my experience was just cal calling in ELK. A 1:19:29.439 --> 1:19:32.360 lot of times they'll come in very meticulous, very slow, 1:19:32.920 --> 1:19:36.000 very cautiously. They'll come in down wind, you know that. 1:19:36.800 --> 1:19:39.000 I think the number one they're looking for a maybe 1:19:39.040 --> 1:19:40.640 to see if check to see if that cow is 1:19:40.720 --> 1:19:43.439 even in heat. They want to hear, they want to 1:19:43.479 --> 1:19:45.080 smell her, and then they want to see if there's 1:19:45.080 --> 1:19:47.400 another bull there. Maybe there's another bowl just kind of 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:48.960 laying low, and he doesn't want to just come up 1:19:48.960 --> 1:19:51.960 there and then hey maybe and then yeah, to get 1:19:52.000 --> 1:19:54.519 his ass kicked on the deal so um, and then 1:19:54.600 --> 1:19:56.920 maybe he's had, you know, because a lot of guys 1:19:57.120 --> 1:19:58.800 that that's their jam. They want to they want a 1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:00.880 cal call at the time. Maybe he's had some bad 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:04.400 encounters with cow calls to where he's like, I remember 1:20:04.800 --> 1:20:06.200 one time I was up here and I've seen a 1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:09.400 dude that was making that noise or something. So they 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:12.479 came in a little more cautiously. Whereas when you can 1:20:12.520 --> 1:20:16.360 appeal to their instinct to fight, they get they get mad, 1:20:16.439 --> 1:20:18.640 and sometimes you can get them worked up enough they 1:20:18.880 --> 1:20:21.680 they forget about. When they forget about, all they want 1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:24.080 to do is come to you and kill you or 1:20:24.400 --> 1:20:29.080 run you off, and and you're more likely to do 1:20:29.200 --> 1:20:31.680 that by bugling. Now that being said, I will do 1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:34.519 some cow calls just to say, hey, there's something worth 1:20:34.600 --> 1:20:37.200 fighting for over here. You know, if when he bugles, 1:20:37.240 --> 1:20:40.639 I might give him like some very interested like hey, 1:20:41.040 --> 1:20:43.880 I like the sound of you man, come over here. 1:20:44.040 --> 1:20:51.200 So here's your basic cow calls. When that bowls bugling, 1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:55.800 I ramp it up, show some emotion like oh hey there, 1:20:55.920 --> 1:21:03.200 come over. Yeah, kind of put a little bit of 1:21:03.280 --> 1:21:11.519 yearning type of a twist it. But but I won't 1:21:11.560 --> 1:21:13.720 overdo it. I'll give two or three of those, and 1:21:13.800 --> 1:21:16.400 then I'll hit him with a bugle and every time 1:21:16.520 --> 1:21:20.720 but I'll wait so so yeah, and then she's saying like, yeah, 1:21:20.760 --> 1:21:22.360 I'm over here with the bull, but I don't like him. 1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:24.920 I wish you'd come over here, right right, So I 1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:27.360 I let I get the bold of bugle with the 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:31.000 cow call. He'll bugle at the cow call, and then 1:21:31.040 --> 1:21:33.840 I say with my bugle, I say, hey, don't don't 1:21:33.840 --> 1:21:38.760 talk to my girls. You shut up. And then it's 1:21:38.800 --> 1:21:42.519 like you're like telling him no. Well, he's thinking there 1:21:42.600 --> 1:21:46.679 must be a reason he's wanting to fight for these girls, 1:21:46.880 --> 1:21:49.280 and Also, I think it's just the whole You're putting 1:21:49.320 --> 1:21:50.800 the ball in their court. They're gonna have to do 1:21:50.960 --> 1:21:54.400 something so and you kind of you just kind of 1:21:54.479 --> 1:21:57.080 let it escalate a bit. It's not like you go 1:21:57.240 --> 1:22:00.479 for a third page, third base right right on from 1:22:00.640 --> 1:22:04.920 night gets in the car. You don't fringure, right, Uh. 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:07.599 You want to let that that temperature build a little, 1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:10.280 little by little, and you'll know because you'll hear his voice, 1:22:10.640 --> 1:22:13.519 the other bull's voice, and you'll hear the anger, and 1:22:13.960 --> 1:22:16.519 pretty soon he'll make a he'll make a bugle that 1:22:16.680 --> 1:22:19.800 there's no mistake. He's he's piste and he wants to fight, 1:22:20.160 --> 1:22:22.040 and that's when you need to ramp it up. You 1:22:22.080 --> 1:22:25.120 feel like you can detect that in his bugle. Oh yeah, yeah, 1:22:25.160 --> 1:22:27.720 there have to be relative. Does it has to be 1:22:27.840 --> 1:22:30.120 relative to his other bugles? Or can you hear a 1:22:30.240 --> 1:22:34.080 single bugle and be like, I feel that that bull 1:22:34.160 --> 1:22:36.519 is pissed, because it has to be like he's more 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:39.120 pisted now than he was earlier. There's a turning point. Yeah, 1:22:39.400 --> 1:22:41.640 He'll be giving you this normal bugles and then all 1:22:41.640 --> 1:22:43.960 of a sudden you'll hear the emotion in it and 1:22:44.040 --> 1:22:47.280 you'll be like, whoa, he's coming. He's gonna come. And 1:22:47.439 --> 1:22:50.360 shortly after that you'll start hear brush popping. But when 1:22:50.400 --> 1:22:52.920 he does that, he gives you that that bugle. I 1:22:53.080 --> 1:22:55.439 just hammer take, I cut. I try to cut him 1:22:55.479 --> 1:22:57.760 off before he's done bugling a hammering, but it's just 1:22:57.840 --> 1:23:01.840 the meanest one. Just give it right back to him. 1:23:02.120 --> 1:23:04.920 And a lot of times that that's when he's gonna 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:06.640 start coming. A lot of times after that, I'll just 1:23:06.760 --> 1:23:08.640 kind of if I know he's coming, I'll shut up. 1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:12.400 That's when I clam up, be quiet. It's it's time 1:23:12.439 --> 1:23:15.200 to time to come find me, So I'll just be quiet. 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:19.120 But how okay, how about if you just trying to 1:23:19.200 --> 1:23:22.840 kill any bowl? That's any bowl? But why is that bolt? 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:25.720 Why would some little shaver if you're in there just 1:23:25.880 --> 1:23:28.519 like bell earn and squaloring and cutting them off, and 1:23:28.800 --> 1:23:31.519 like why would some little shaver ever dare come into 1:23:32.080 --> 1:23:37.040 forty yards? Wow, there's there's some short dudes at walk around. 1:23:37.040 --> 1:23:39.160 I think they're pretty tough. You know, they'll pick a 1:23:39.200 --> 1:23:40.800 fight with the biggest guy in the bar. Right, So 1:23:41.240 --> 1:23:43.719 there's some little some young bulls that think they're pretty 1:23:43.720 --> 1:23:48.400 tough and curiosity, I mean, I've killed the world's like 1:23:48.680 --> 1:23:52.320 smallest rafter full of like baby rag horns, and I 1:23:52.479 --> 1:23:55.880 use the same strategy. I'm going to kill that herd bowl. 1:23:55.920 --> 1:23:58.160 But all these satellite bowls are still with the herd. 1:23:59.160 --> 1:24:01.040 So a lot of times they'll just come wandering in. 1:24:01.080 --> 1:24:03.600 They might give you some little halfhearted bagles, um, but 1:24:03.720 --> 1:24:06.320 I'll still kill that, you know, small satellite bowls by 1:24:06.560 --> 1:24:08.439 by the same exact tactics that I thought I was 1:24:08.439 --> 1:24:10.479 supposed to use to kill the herd bowl um. And 1:24:10.560 --> 1:24:12.599 then to reiterate on Dirk. So I don't think cow 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:15.160 Call's work is good. We're kind of reversing nature at 1:24:15.200 --> 1:24:17.040 that point. That bowls got hit for sure thing, like 1:24:17.120 --> 1:24:20.320 I've got ten ladies, I'm good. He's got satellite bowls 1:24:20.320 --> 1:24:22.960 around him. Most likely he doesn't want to leave those 1:24:23.080 --> 1:24:25.160 ten for sure things to come get this one mystical 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:27.519 lady out on the side. Until you add that bowl in, 1:24:27.920 --> 1:24:30.320 you then just kind of turn change the game at 1:24:30.360 --> 1:24:32.880 that point. So he so he when he beagles, he's like, well, 1:24:32.960 --> 1:24:35.040 this this new lady should just come over and join us. 1:24:35.200 --> 1:24:37.640 We should be good. He's not gonna necessarily leave, you know, 1:24:37.760 --> 1:24:40.759 come a hundred hundred fifty yards leave all those cows 1:24:41.080 --> 1:24:43.360 with some of these other you know, satellite bowls have 1:24:43.439 --> 1:24:46.519 been pestering him all day to come investigate. He you know, 1:24:46.680 --> 1:24:49.120 nature expects that cow to go to him. When you 1:24:49.200 --> 1:24:53.720 win that ALCOHOLM championship, they ever give you big belt buckle, No, dude, 1:24:53.720 --> 1:24:56.400 that'd be sweet man, I'm called. It's kind of lean on, 1:24:56.560 --> 1:24:58.559 you know. Yeah, yeah, it looks like a pipe late. 1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:01.599 They don't get they don't hand out, they don't, they don't. 1:25:01.680 --> 1:25:03.800 You know. I think one year they did give those out, 1:25:03.840 --> 1:25:05.360 but of course I didn't win that year. You know, 1:25:05.439 --> 1:25:07.240 that was like the one cool thing they gave away. 1:25:07.320 --> 1:25:09.479 But Yanni, Yanni's being all modest. He's not like a 1:25:09.600 --> 1:25:11.679 six time world champion, but he's a good elk caller. 1:25:11.880 --> 1:25:14.040 He might not be an elk competition winner, but he's 1:25:14.280 --> 1:25:17.160 he's a good elk caller. That's all that matters. And 1:25:17.240 --> 1:25:18.800 if Yannie likes to do I curiously, what do you 1:25:18.840 --> 1:25:21.400 guys think about this? He gets in there, he takes 1:25:21.439 --> 1:25:23.519 his jacket off, puts his gloves on, and he sets 1:25:23.600 --> 1:25:26.360 to whooping on brush and rolling rocks and whatnot. Sometimes 1:25:26.640 --> 1:25:29.240 you guys big into that stickture is important as the 1:25:29.320 --> 1:25:31.519 calls are you if you saw him from far off 1:25:31.560 --> 1:25:33.160 to a spot and scope, you think you were looking 1:25:33.200 --> 1:25:37.280 at you like a certifiably insane person running around in 1:25:37.400 --> 1:25:41.000 circles and figure eights and busting trees, drawing rocks, and yeah, 1:25:41.000 --> 1:25:44.240 he gets ready, takes his hat off. A guy I 1:25:44.400 --> 1:25:46.960 was wondering how big of a branch or log should 1:25:47.000 --> 1:25:50.679 he use when he's thrashing brush us, Like he thought, 1:25:50.720 --> 1:25:52.240 we're talking to something you'd bring home and cut off 1:25:52.240 --> 1:25:55.599 for stove wood. Yeah, you had to split it before 1:25:55.640 --> 1:25:57.960 you burned it. But sometimes if I can get just 1:25:58.160 --> 1:26:00.920 the right one, it's probably like, don't know, maybe six 1:26:01.040 --> 1:26:02.880 inches diameter in the middle of when I'm holding it, 1:26:02.960 --> 1:26:05.240 and it's long, it's like eight to ten ft on 1:26:05.360 --> 1:26:08.200 both sides of me. I can be getting two pieces 1:26:08.240 --> 1:26:12.080 of brush at the same time. I remember once getting 1:26:12.080 --> 1:26:13.760 caught by a bowl. I was sitting there doing that, 1:26:13.880 --> 1:26:15.880 holding this giant log. I look over and there's a 1:26:15.960 --> 1:26:18.639 five point standing there looking at me, like, how come 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:22.720 my guys not shooting you right now? Yeah? He and 1:26:22.840 --> 1:26:27.120 this is anecdotal, uh, but he's in there doing all 1:26:27.200 --> 1:26:30.479 this and carrying on. And we had a bull kept 1:26:30.520 --> 1:26:33.920 bumping into us, bumping into me and trying to get 1:26:33.960 --> 1:26:36.040 around me to get to Janice. He's like, there's that 1:26:36.120 --> 1:26:41.320 damn guy again. Let you try another approach to go 1:26:41.479 --> 1:26:44.560 find out what's going on there? What's going on? That 1:26:45.479 --> 1:26:49.960 young curious bowl right just is like, man, there's something 1:26:50.080 --> 1:26:53.519 going on over there. And yeah, I think I think 1:26:53.560 --> 1:26:56.160 it's the biggest branch. I can find this close and 1:26:56.640 --> 1:26:58.800 go at it. How do you know when to do that? 1:27:00.040 --> 1:27:01.360 Lot of times I wait till a lot of times 1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:03.240 they'll be that stalemate I talk about. They'll get to 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:05.479 fifty yards and don't want to come in, but they'll 1:27:05.479 --> 1:27:07.680 start raking their antlers on a tree of their own. 1:27:08.520 --> 1:27:12.880 So I'll take into racing as well. And then usually 1:27:12.920 --> 1:27:15.760 what happens, they'll stop and they'll bugle, and when they 1:27:15.800 --> 1:27:17.800 stop in bugle A lot of times I'll cut them 1:27:17.800 --> 1:27:21.639 off and then we'll we'll go both go back to racing. 1:27:21.680 --> 1:27:23.960 And this may take four or five sessions of this 1:27:24.479 --> 1:27:27.599 back and fourth raking and then bugling, and then I'll 1:27:27.600 --> 1:27:30.600 cut them off. But eventually they get pretty worked up. 1:27:30.680 --> 1:27:32.360 You know, they're getting there. It's like I'm getting I 1:27:32.479 --> 1:27:35.519 feel pretty tough, right, now they're they're raking and then 1:27:36.280 --> 1:27:38.280 you're making a mad you're talking smack every time he 1:27:38.360 --> 1:27:43.200 opens his mouth. Pretty soon they're coming. Yeah. Do you 1:27:43.240 --> 1:27:46.840 guys ever do any like pants or like moan in 1:27:46.960 --> 1:27:52.120 the into the tube? Just guys don't wear pants. Yeah, 1:27:52.320 --> 1:27:53.840 we'll do We'll do all the sounds. I don't do 1:27:53.880 --> 1:27:56.000 any glunking, you know, any of that, but we'll do 1:27:57.080 --> 1:28:03.040 nonker is he as it worked, it's part of the rappers. 1:28:04.000 --> 1:28:09.000 I don't know. Now we moan, growl, you do all 1:28:09.040 --> 1:28:13.680 of that. Show people some moaning and growling. I'll do 1:28:13.840 --> 1:28:16.280 some some of the lunks to. I don't know that 1:28:16.360 --> 1:28:18.599 it with the tube. Yeah, I don't know that it works. 1:28:19.360 --> 1:28:22.560 It doesn't. Yeah, so I used you. I can do 1:28:22.720 --> 1:28:25.439 you get up by your deal there, I just tap 1:28:25.520 --> 1:28:30.560 on it. So he's just tapping. He's just got his 1:28:30.680 --> 1:28:33.120 beautile tube and he's just tapping the mouth piece. You 1:28:33.120 --> 1:28:35.720 can do the same thing by making You can do 1:28:35.800 --> 1:28:37.320 the same thing by making suction on the top of 1:28:37.360 --> 1:28:39.360 your mouth and basically sucking in at the same time. 1:28:39.400 --> 1:28:41.200 But in my opinion, I can't do it real well. 1:28:41.760 --> 1:28:44.040 Um so I don't glunk with my mouth. But why 1:28:44.080 --> 1:28:47.680 the bowls. Glunk, Why don't you glunk? It's usually I 1:28:47.680 --> 1:28:49.400 mean at the time you can hear the glunk, you're 1:28:49.439 --> 1:28:51.360 within that six year eight yard window and I'm doing 1:28:51.400 --> 1:28:53.720 other things. I'm trying to get my my release, you know, 1:28:54.200 --> 1:28:56.800 everything knocked up everybody, and then I can still make 1:28:57.120 --> 1:28:58.640 I'm not having to like tap a tube make a 1:28:58.680 --> 1:29:00.559 bunch of movement because you're saying, are you here, It's 1:29:00.560 --> 1:29:03.559 like hearing a turkey girl, it's about ready to do Yeah. 1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:07.519 It's there are guys in the world calling championships that 1:29:07.560 --> 1:29:10.640 are glunking with their mouth real well, not real well. No, 1:29:11.120 --> 1:29:13.320 the kid in the youth division this year it was 1:29:13.400 --> 1:29:15.679 the best. And it's to the point now where there's 1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:17.479 I wouldn't say there's not a lot of skill, but 1:29:17.520 --> 1:29:19.160 I think even some of our judges don't even know 1:29:19.200 --> 1:29:21.679 what they're listening to um and so it's it's pretty 1:29:21.760 --> 1:29:23.160 risky to go up there and use some of your 1:29:23.200 --> 1:29:25.880 time because they're doing like celebrity judges. They're not doing 1:29:25.960 --> 1:29:29.479 like judge judges and doing celebrity It's it's all basically 1:29:29.479 --> 1:29:31.760 the majority of them were all like Utah outfitters and 1:29:31.800 --> 1:29:34.760 guides and stuff. The judges also not celebrity gems, not 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:37.439 celebrity just behind the scenes guys. But yeah, yeah, I 1:29:37.479 --> 1:29:40.640 think it was pretty risky to do any of that. Well, 1:29:40.680 --> 1:29:42.240 it don't sound right. It sounds like you're beating on 1:29:42.320 --> 1:29:44.720 your tube. It doesn't sound like an actual glunk. If 1:29:44.760 --> 1:29:47.639 you could re actually reproduce it, well, I would definitely 1:29:47.760 --> 1:29:51.519 do it. But it's tough. It's to do some screaming 1:29:51.520 --> 1:30:01.519 and moaning whatnot. They're not screaming moaning, and I mean 1:30:01.560 --> 1:30:05.439 just that subtle. I mean, is he's tending cows. Excuse me, 1:30:06.160 --> 1:30:07.960 you know he's tending cows. Is he's is, he's doing 1:30:08.000 --> 1:30:10.120 his thing, and he's just making those subtle just you know, 1:30:10.160 --> 1:30:13.880 elky sounds. Yeah, what's going on when a bowl makes 1:30:14.000 --> 1:30:17.600 uh like muse COWCOLI kind of mused and stuff. I 1:30:17.720 --> 1:30:19.439 don't even know what he's got going I mean, they 1:30:19.479 --> 1:30:21.040 do the calcol the time. I don't know what the 1:30:21.120 --> 1:30:23.400 heck that means or why he's doing it. I never 1:30:23.479 --> 1:30:25.920 heard him do it in the rut though. I had 1:30:25.960 --> 1:30:28.400 a bowl one time. Every time right before he bugle, 1:30:28.439 --> 1:30:32.200 he'd go and then he just scream. I'm like, man, 1:30:32.320 --> 1:30:33.920 he's got a cow over there and finally he came 1:30:33.960 --> 1:30:36.519 out and I've seen him do it. I'm like, what's 1:30:36.560 --> 1:30:38.599 he do one? But you never throw that in the mix. 1:30:39.600 --> 1:30:42.800 I mean yeah at the World's Yeah, that'd be a 1:30:42.920 --> 1:30:46.600 risky business. Like back a long time, I mean hunting, like, 1:30:46.920 --> 1:30:48.559 it's just it's just it's so rare that you don't 1:30:48.560 --> 1:30:53.360 need to Well, I'm MUing you a little bit here 1:30:53.360 --> 1:30:56.520 and there. There's so much noise and some of those situations, 1:30:56.760 --> 1:31:01.320 like there's so much going on, right, I'm not Yeah, 1:31:01.560 --> 1:31:03.280 I don't know. I guess if you can pick out 1:31:03.360 --> 1:31:05.840 the subtle noises, they can too, would be a good 1:31:06.760 --> 1:31:11.040 the like the heavy breathing stuff, I'll do that, like 1:31:11.160 --> 1:31:15.000 when it's really getting pitched back and forth. But that's 1:31:15.040 --> 1:31:18.600 one thing where I'm like, this is risky, Like I 1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:21.360 just don't have the confidence. Does this sound good to him? Yeah? 1:31:21.439 --> 1:31:24.439 Just like breathing through that too, really heavy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 1:31:24.439 --> 1:31:26.040 I've always wondered. I mean you can do that. I'm like, 1:31:26.080 --> 1:31:27.600 I hope this sounds good on his end? Is I 1:31:27.680 --> 1:31:29.320 think it does? Because I don't. I don't know what 1:31:29.680 --> 1:31:33.400 it makes sense in the conversation. But that's where I 1:31:33.439 --> 1:31:36.040 just like resort back to I'll just beat on some brush. 1:31:36.240 --> 1:31:39.479 I'm confident that that sounds right. But the col muse, 1:31:39.560 --> 1:31:42.160 I've mostly only heard him when it's like late season. 1:31:42.360 --> 1:31:45.280 There are they're bashed up again and they're sparring. They're 1:31:45.280 --> 1:31:47.960 doing that light little fun spar and they're sort of 1:31:48.120 --> 1:31:50.640 they're mewing against each other. That's when I've heard it, 1:31:50.760 --> 1:31:55.560 mostly when her abrews mewing um, which brings me to 1:31:55.680 --> 1:32:01.519 late season h calling. A lot of people like post rot, 1:32:02.600 --> 1:32:05.400 like should I even bring calls? Do you guys bring calls? 1:32:06.000 --> 1:32:08.679 I don't leave I don't leave house without at least 1:32:08.680 --> 1:32:11.120 a cow call. If it's November December, Like let's say 1:32:11.160 --> 1:32:13.200 it's a late archery hunt in December, definitely have a 1:32:13.240 --> 1:32:16.360 cow call because you want me want to stop stopping help. 1:32:16.840 --> 1:32:19.240 But I think they're curious year round. Let's say there's 1:32:19.240 --> 1:32:21.439 summons a brush patch pretty close and you just like 1:32:21.560 --> 1:32:23.800 want one to come out to investigate. You start making 1:32:23.840 --> 1:32:36.840 a lost calf excuse me, a lost calf call. Make 1:32:36.880 --> 1:32:39.320 it like a lost calf cow call or or a 1:32:39.400 --> 1:32:41.360 cow call. They might come over and check it out. 1:32:41.439 --> 1:32:44.960 Especially spike Spikes are like, oh man, who's over there 1:32:45.080 --> 1:32:48.360 is that my mom. I mean that they're pretty curious. 1:32:48.400 --> 1:32:53.720 So I think if you can look at yeah, uh 1:32:53.960 --> 1:32:57.240 but yeah, you want to appeal to their curiosity. So 1:32:58.240 --> 1:32:59.680 do you got what what do you guys think when 1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:04.320 people tell you, um that September right early September it's 1:33:04.360 --> 1:33:07.960 all hot, and people are like, oh, it sucked. They're 1:33:08.000 --> 1:33:11.280 not fired up yet? Are you Like? Yeah? I agree, No, 1:33:11.520 --> 1:33:14.400 I love it. I'm gonna I'm gonna prove your own 1:33:15.000 --> 1:33:18.040 just a second. Yeah, So I I I think you 1:33:18.080 --> 1:33:19.920 can all you know, if it's hot, um, you know, 1:33:20.040 --> 1:33:22.719 early morning, late night. But I think I feel alike 1:33:22.960 --> 1:33:24.840 and and I haven't been proven wrong too many times. 1:33:24.840 --> 1:33:26.320 I can go in there and get something fired up 1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:29.519 eventually if they're ilk there. Last year in Idaho, as 1:33:29.560 --> 1:33:31.120 some guys told me there were no Elk there, I'm like, 1:33:31.360 --> 1:33:32.840 I'm bettering you guys are gonna up there and find 1:33:32.880 --> 1:33:36.400 there were no Elk there. They showed me they were. 1:33:38.080 --> 1:33:40.720 I feel like somewhere in that unit, it might not 1:33:40.800 --> 1:33:42.160 be in the base and them in or the basin 1:33:42.240 --> 1:33:44.360 next to it, but somewhere in that unit during September 1:33:44.720 --> 1:33:46.960 it should be able to get something going. Yeah. I 1:33:46.960 --> 1:33:49.040 always come back to the fact I'm like, this is 1:33:49.520 --> 1:33:51.920 their only time of the year to do this. They 1:33:51.960 --> 1:33:55.000 have to figure they're not gonna waste They're not gonna 1:33:55.000 --> 1:33:57.920 be like, well, it's real hot. I don't really feel 1:33:58.040 --> 1:34:01.280 like mating for my time of year that I get 1:34:01.360 --> 1:34:07.559 to make, something's gonna happen. What about when there's no noise, right, 1:34:07.720 --> 1:34:10.679 do you know there's elk there but no one's making 1:34:10.760 --> 1:34:15.120 a peat? Do you go and look for new ones? Yeah? 1:34:15.360 --> 1:34:17.360 The you know the old adage, don't leave elk to 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:19.760 find elk, But a lot of times that's the game 1:34:19.800 --> 1:34:22.000 I'm playing. If I can't call it in, I'm probably 1:34:22.000 --> 1:34:23.320 not gonna be able to kill it where I hunt. 1:34:23.400 --> 1:34:26.080 Usually it's because big timber, a lot of brush. You 1:34:26.160 --> 1:34:30.600 can't just sneak around and you know, sneak up on 1:34:30.680 --> 1:34:33.639 one and shoot it. So if they won't talk, I'm moving. 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:38.160 It's funny. And it'll be let's say September and you 1:34:38.280 --> 1:34:40.880 cannot buy a bugle for some reason, there's like there's 1:34:40.920 --> 1:34:44.720 no the elk will not call there. Here, there's there's 1:34:44.760 --> 1:34:47.599 elk here, and the calls I'll leave. I'm like, I'm 1:34:47.680 --> 1:34:50.639 driving twenty five miles to a different complete different drainage 1:34:50.640 --> 1:34:53.600 system and you go over there and they may be 1:34:53.680 --> 1:34:56.280 on fire over there. I've seen that before, just regionally, 1:34:56.640 --> 1:34:59.680 and you might have been in that very spot on 1:34:59.800 --> 1:35:02.360 your an off day if you were there the day before, 1:35:02.880 --> 1:35:05.320 or they might have been on fire. And then there's 1:35:05.320 --> 1:35:07.800 that you'll have an awesome day of bugling and the 1:35:07.880 --> 1:35:10.960 next day will be completely quiet. You'll see that kind 1:35:10.960 --> 1:35:13.560 of fluctuate through the whole the whole rest. So a 1:35:13.640 --> 1:35:15.840 lot of times, if it's not going on here, I 1:35:15.960 --> 1:35:19.759 hike out, jump on the truck, DRIs do a different 1:35:19.800 --> 1:35:21.840 spot and go hunt there. I think a lot of 1:35:21.880 --> 1:35:24.599 that has to do to man with with one cow. 1:35:25.479 --> 1:35:28.760 You get that one cow that's in heat, and all 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:31.920 of a sudden, you know, everybody's you know, fired up. 1:35:33.479 --> 1:35:35.960 At least in Colorado. I mean, obviously there's a whole 1:35:36.000 --> 1:35:38.120 bunch of elk there, so maybe it happens more often 1:35:38.200 --> 1:35:40.840 just because there are more elk. But plenty of times 1:35:40.880 --> 1:35:44.679 in third season, which is normally you know, first week, 1:35:44.840 --> 1:35:47.200 maybe even to the second week in November, there's some 1:35:47.479 --> 1:35:50.760 raghorn opening morning that's bugling that you can hear is 1:35:50.800 --> 1:35:53.479 a way and he's not bugling for no reason. There's 1:35:53.520 --> 1:35:56.800 a cow that's in or you know, second cycle or whatever. 1:35:57.160 --> 1:35:58.640 I have a theory, and you guys, I want you 1:35:58.680 --> 1:36:00.559 guys to weigh in on it. So my uncle told 1:36:00.560 --> 1:36:01.960 me this when I was young, just getting into this 1:36:02.000 --> 1:36:04.479 whole thing. He likes to hunt on the end of 1:36:04.600 --> 1:36:07.720 like at least six or seven, eight fifteen dry days 1:36:07.760 --> 1:36:09.680 in a row. He's convinced that when it rains and 1:36:09.800 --> 1:36:12.680 washes that cow sent away, that it kills the rut 1:36:12.800 --> 1:36:14.519 for a day or two because her scent is now 1:36:14.600 --> 1:36:18.080 washed away. Whereas though you know, those semi mature satelight 1:36:18.120 --> 1:36:20.599 bowls that are running ridge tops, running finger ridges can 1:36:20.640 --> 1:36:22.680 pick her sent up after four or five days, you know, 1:36:22.720 --> 1:36:25.800 wherever wherever she later sent down. Whereas that next day 1:36:25.800 --> 1:36:27.400 at rains, he's like, it's gonna kill the rut for 1:36:27.479 --> 1:36:29.559 like two or three days. And I've kind of always 1:36:29.600 --> 1:36:31.559 we've always had good success, like if we can hunt 1:36:31.680 --> 1:36:33.320 through a dry section, but then as soon as you 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:35.360 get that rain, I'm like, it may just be the 1:36:35.439 --> 1:36:37.439 weather slows him down. But I'm like, I wonder if 1:36:38.120 --> 1:36:39.880 you know that that kind of kills the rut. And 1:36:39.920 --> 1:36:42.040 so I love you know that September, if I can 1:36:42.040 --> 1:36:43.720 get a bunch of dry days, whether it's hot or not, 1:36:44.360 --> 1:36:47.240 it seems to be better. I never heard that, and 1:36:47.400 --> 1:36:49.400 I feel like that would fall under the thing of 1:36:51.479 --> 1:36:56.040 that you just have a wide open schedule. Yeah, and 1:36:56.160 --> 1:36:58.840 you live in your spot. And because I would never 1:36:58.880 --> 1:37:01.280 be like I was gonna but it rain, but it 1:37:01.400 --> 1:37:04.639 rained yesterday. Yeah. I just can't picture someone like actually 1:37:04.680 --> 1:37:06.479 acting upon that. You know there and I'm in the 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:08.479 same way. Same with moon phases. There's only so many 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:11.040 September so I'm like, I'm hunting. I'm hunting the whole thing. 1:37:12.560 --> 1:37:18.040 But freshnow, freshnow in Montana and Idaho, like I have 1:37:18.200 --> 1:37:21.120 had a lot of screw it, I'm gonna go hunt 1:37:21.439 --> 1:37:25.559 and had the worst days of like falling elk tracks 1:37:25.600 --> 1:37:29.120 around in the snow, nobody's playing, nobody's talking. I think 1:37:29.200 --> 1:37:32.240 that absolutely shuts them down. I think of wet when 1:37:32.280 --> 1:37:35.519 you get like it happens every year, that wet ass 1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:39.639 September dump of like four inches of slush. It does take. 1:37:39.760 --> 1:37:41.880 It's just like it just ends the party. And often 1:37:41.920 --> 1:37:45.439 I find they just like up and move crazy places. 1:37:46.280 --> 1:37:48.880 They're like pack up, move eight miles or whatever. Yeah. 1:37:50.000 --> 1:37:54.719 One thing that I like confidence kills right, Like whatever 1:37:54.760 --> 1:37:56.760 I'm gonna do may not be the right thing. When 1:37:56.760 --> 1:38:01.400 I'm like really standing it, Uh, you run into the 1:38:01.960 --> 1:38:09.000 cow that calls back aggressively, and I feel like she 1:38:09.280 --> 1:38:13.120 is like, no, no, we're not doing this again, and 1:38:13.280 --> 1:38:16.160 she's gonna go in and like grab the bowl and 1:38:16.320 --> 1:38:18.920 take off. Like when you get like that challenge back 1:38:19.000 --> 1:38:22.160 from the cow, that's like when my heart sinks and 1:38:22.200 --> 1:38:25.880 I'm like, oh boy, I'm re allowed to I'm I'm 1:38:25.920 --> 1:38:28.160 not up to snuff on this one. Like I just 1:38:28.280 --> 1:38:31.560 can't figure that one out and that has killed me 1:38:32.160 --> 1:38:37.320 several times. So what what is this? Do you guys have? 1:38:37.479 --> 1:38:39.800 Like the thing like if you hear it, you're like, well, 1:38:40.680 --> 1:38:46.719 chances are our chances just went from to like separate 1:38:46.760 --> 1:38:49.320 from your situation, Like what is our situation where you're 1:38:50.120 --> 1:38:54.720 a bark? Yeah, well we'll follow a bark now show 1:38:54.760 --> 1:39:01.639 people are bark uh ow, that's a good bark. That's 1:39:02.320 --> 1:39:05.800 that's a really good bark. So um yeah, that's that's 1:39:05.840 --> 1:39:07.680 a great part. It kind of it kind of goes 1:39:07.760 --> 1:39:09.200 back to the why do you know how to do that? 1:39:09.560 --> 1:39:13.439 Because it's one of the required sounds during the Alcohl Yeah, yeah, 1:39:13.520 --> 1:39:14.960 you have to. You have to polish yourself. Ho do 1:39:14.960 --> 1:39:16.719 you ever screw Do you ever like mess other hunters 1:39:16.800 --> 1:39:18.280 up by getting annoyed with the hunt of the hunters 1:39:18.320 --> 1:39:26.240 and barking before you leave? I definitely barking a cow 1:39:26.320 --> 1:39:27.920 that's barking at me. Yeah, and that's what I was 1:39:27.960 --> 1:39:29.720 gonna get back. So it's like, you can't pool their 1:39:29.760 --> 1:39:32.080 nose ever back to your guys as one of elk leaves. 1:39:32.360 --> 1:39:34.400 You can sometimes pool their eyes, but that's typically. I 1:39:34.439 --> 1:39:36.400 think when you get barked out, they've seen or heard 1:39:36.479 --> 1:39:38.479 something that's a little bit off, but they haven't smelled you. 1:39:38.800 --> 1:39:40.560 They're gonna bark at you, and then I us we 1:39:40.680 --> 1:39:42.720 barked back at them. It's not necessarily going to save 1:39:42.760 --> 1:39:44.840 the whole situation, but it may give you just enough 1:39:44.880 --> 1:39:47.040 time to get a glimpse or to keep them around 1:39:47.120 --> 1:39:49.519 long enough before then they tear down the canyon barking 1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:52.800 everything the rest of the way out. Have you ever 1:39:52.880 --> 1:39:55.240 had have you ever been working a bowl and had 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:57.720 a cow that's with the bull, not off to the side, 1:39:57.760 --> 1:40:00.280 but like a cow with the bull bark then you 1:40:00.479 --> 1:40:04.960 killed the bull. No, I think they've always run away. 1:40:05.080 --> 1:40:07.719 I hate that sound. I hate it. Yeah, they're usually 1:40:07.800 --> 1:40:09.519 there's usually gone, Like I haven't even had a cow 1:40:09.640 --> 1:40:12.120 that's barked, where if she was a blood had enough 1:40:12.160 --> 1:40:14.479 time or the opportunity to shoot it, she's hung around 1:40:14.560 --> 1:40:17.120 like behind the tree that she saw me behind. Um, 1:40:17.200 --> 1:40:18.439 you know, and then or she'll maybe run up a 1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:20.040 hundred yards and keep barking at me. But it's like 1:40:20.200 --> 1:40:22.880 I would have never even had an opportunity. But do 1:40:23.040 --> 1:40:24.840 that bark again at like that bark a whole bunch. 1:40:26.160 --> 1:40:33.840 He's barking through his beatle tube. That's like the worst 1:40:33.920 --> 1:40:36.240 noise on the planet. Why where are you enjoying it? 1:40:36.360 --> 1:40:41.360 I hate it more than a deer blowing? What about 1:40:41.360 --> 1:40:46.439 a wolf, Helen? That do you feel it shuts them down? 1:40:46.920 --> 1:40:50.200 It does my area in Idaho where which is more 1:40:50.280 --> 1:40:53.519 wolf in fested than they where else. Elk consistently they 1:40:53.600 --> 1:40:55.280 will rip one day in the basin, but if we 1:40:55.400 --> 1:40:57.200 hear if we hear him Helen, and they're like that 1:40:57.320 --> 1:40:59.240 night when we're eating dinner, there will not be an 1:40:59.280 --> 1:41:01.160 elk are in there, or they will they will not 1:41:01.240 --> 1:41:02.760 be an that makes a sound in that base in 1:41:02.800 --> 1:41:05.200 the next morning. Um, so we'll typically just like oh, 1:41:05.240 --> 1:41:06.760 we heard him in there. We're gonna go the other way. 1:41:07.520 --> 1:41:10.759 I've had the experience though, Man, I've packed out several 1:41:10.840 --> 1:41:13.640 bowls with wolves Howland in the base, like, and they 1:41:13.680 --> 1:41:16.360 were making noise. Oh, and it's like I think it's 1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:18.920 just like a safety and numbers thing, like, yeah, there's 1:41:18.960 --> 1:41:24.760 wolves here, but everybody's here. We got this, yeah, or 1:41:24.840 --> 1:41:28.080 the chance it'll be me. Yeah. I've had guys say 1:41:28.160 --> 1:41:31.759 that they've heard bulls bugle at the wolves. The wolves 1:41:31.760 --> 1:41:35.519 will howl and bull just scream at them. But my 1:41:35.640 --> 1:41:38.520 experience has not been that is, if there's wolves Howland 1:41:38.720 --> 1:41:41.040 that you think a spaceship come along and took the 1:41:41.080 --> 1:41:44.800 elk away, they disappear and be quiet. I'll get up 1:41:44.840 --> 1:41:48.479 and I'll drive again to try to get completely out 1:41:48.520 --> 1:41:51.080 of their range, because you know those things will cover 1:41:51.160 --> 1:41:54.040 a lot of ground in today five fifteen miles. You 1:41:54.080 --> 1:41:57.720 know the day the wolves will will So I just 1:41:57.800 --> 1:41:59.800 get the heck out of there and find somewhere else. 1:42:00.520 --> 1:42:04.320 I definitely use wolves against people because no matter what 1:42:04.960 --> 1:42:10.200 you see or talk about, like with the fear of wolves, 1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:13.639 either messing up a weekend or whatever, is so strong 1:42:13.760 --> 1:42:16.920 with people. Oh yeah, a lot of wolves sign up there. 1:42:18.360 --> 1:42:20.280 I'm gonna start using wolves against people too, and just 1:42:20.320 --> 1:42:22.840 bring a wolf holler with me first thing in the morning. 1:42:22.920 --> 1:42:24.719 Let a wolf holl out of the bottom. Hopefully everybody 1:42:24.800 --> 1:42:26.679 leaves and they'll have it all to myself. Just mile 1:42:26.800 --> 1:42:33.439 up the trail and set electronic caller past so the 1:42:33.520 --> 1:42:35.000 elk didn't hear that and should be good to go. 1:42:35.400 --> 1:42:37.160 I had that this spring with turkeys. Man, we got 1:42:37.240 --> 1:42:39.200 rights where we needed to be at first light. And 1:42:39.200 --> 1:42:41.360 we're just sitting there trying to hear the first gobble 1:42:41.439 --> 1:42:43.680 you know, in a big, nice, big Montana meadow or 1:42:43.720 --> 1:42:45.960 at the upper end of it and right on top 1:42:46.000 --> 1:42:48.519 of us, like it's you know, it always sounds like 1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:51.479 eight coyotes, probably just two or three, but just go 1:42:51.840 --> 1:42:54.479 nuts for like I mean, I'm like, all right, it's 1:42:54.520 --> 1:42:57.200 been three minutes. Come on, guys, like shut it down already. 1:42:57.240 --> 1:42:59.240 You know, I'm thinking this is just over. We should 1:42:59.240 --> 1:43:01.680 just start hiking right now. But we wait. We let 1:43:01.720 --> 1:43:05.280 it quiet down, and thirty seconds after they quit, you know, 1:43:05.439 --> 1:43:08.920 down at that was a piss poor gobble. It was 1:43:08.920 --> 1:43:13.360 a very distant gobble. Do another one, yeh couldn't you 1:43:13.400 --> 1:43:14.640 hear it out there in the distance. Do you ever 1:43:14.680 --> 1:43:20.240 hear Yanni's way far off Elk? This is a super 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:29.479 far away something. Guy wanted us to have a contest. 1:43:30.640 --> 1:43:32.880 He wanted contest who could make the best way far 1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:38.160 off Elk sound? Yeah, you got uh another question yet one. 1:43:39.080 --> 1:43:40.880 I think it's easy. One guy's asking, like, how do 1:43:40.920 --> 1:43:42.840 you set up when you guys are alone? You know, 1:43:43.000 --> 1:43:45.960 like people pretty familiar with the it's easy to visualize 1:43:46.000 --> 1:43:48.000 the concept of like two guys. Right, So one guy's 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:52.800 calling and he's trying to pull a bowl pass the 1:43:52.880 --> 1:43:55.240 shooter right, So the bowl like he's gonna he's gonna 1:43:55.280 --> 1:43:58.120 approach cautiously. He's gonna, you know, he might not want 1:43:58.160 --> 1:44:01.720 to get more than seven whatever fifty yards in that call. 1:44:01.800 --> 1:44:04.280 And so you got your shooter out there, and um, 1:44:04.360 --> 1:44:06.120 hopefully that bow will come up and hang up and 1:44:06.160 --> 1:44:07.960 cut some half circles and he'll be right in the 1:44:08.040 --> 1:44:10.200 zone of the shooter. But when you're by yourself, what 1:44:10.320 --> 1:44:11.680 do you guys? What do you guys like to do? 1:44:12.200 --> 1:44:14.160 It depends on vegetation. Like if I can move a 1:44:14.200 --> 1:44:16.560 little bit, I'll make my first call just like it 1:44:16.760 --> 1:44:18.280 is a two color set up, and I'll move in 1:44:18.320 --> 1:44:20.160 the direction I think that thing's gonna try to circle 1:44:20.200 --> 1:44:21.880 where I made that first call from. So if i'd 1:44:22.280 --> 1:44:23.880 eight yards and I think I can get away with 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:26.840 like fifteen yards to my left, I'll make that call. 1:44:26.920 --> 1:44:29.040 They're knowing that the wind's going right to left, he 1:44:29.120 --> 1:44:32.720 should circle into my new location off of my first call. Um, 1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:36.479 you can't always do that, to be honest. Nine of 1:44:36.479 --> 1:44:39.000 the bulls we call in come in straight on. You 1:44:39.040 --> 1:44:42.080 know you're playing that wind directly perfect and comes straight 1:44:42.120 --> 1:44:44.960 on the Yeah, you're not going to ma a broadside 1:44:44.960 --> 1:44:47.040 shot you They're just gonna come directly at your location 1:44:47.120 --> 1:44:49.040 on a on a one man calling set up. Um, 1:44:49.600 --> 1:44:51.400 you know your best bets hope they hold up at 1:44:51.400 --> 1:44:53.240 twenty or thirty and you know, do the pacing back 1:44:53.280 --> 1:44:56.400 and forth show themselves. Um, but we don't really I 1:44:56.439 --> 1:44:58.280 mean with a cameraman or with our caller, Like I 1:44:58.320 --> 1:45:00.320 want to be able to communicate with my colors. Our 1:45:00.360 --> 1:45:04.040 setups are really whether there's two guys or one guy. Um, 1:45:04.280 --> 1:45:06.920 they're really similar. And we talked about that threat earlier. 1:45:07.280 --> 1:45:10.240 If you send you know, the world primos on the 1:45:10.280 --> 1:45:13.679 hill ranch scenario, I can't send my color hundred yards 1:45:13.760 --> 1:45:16.080 back because that that caller who is now the elk 1:45:16.200 --> 1:45:18.680 is no longer a threat when I'm selling back. Kind 1:45:18.680 --> 1:45:20.880 of lost me there. So if you send your like 1:45:21.000 --> 1:45:22.400 on a two man calling set up, when you used 1:45:22.439 --> 1:45:24.200 to watch old Primos truth videos, you know they would 1:45:24.200 --> 1:45:27.479 send a guy a hundred hundred fifty yards back to call. Well, 1:45:27.720 --> 1:45:29.800 if you're a hundred yards away the colors and hundred 1:45:29.800 --> 1:45:31.840 five yards behind you when I'm trying to call a 1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:34.040 public lamb bowl, and it's really tough to to get 1:45:34.160 --> 1:45:37.040 him to commit. Um, So we like to have that 1:45:37.240 --> 1:45:40.479 call or be this because they're they're far enough out 1:45:40.479 --> 1:45:42.400 of a circle that he's not too worried about, you know, 1:45:42.439 --> 1:45:45.200 having to defend his cows or can investigate. So we 1:45:45.320 --> 1:45:48.439 usually like to have that call right with the shooter anyways, 1:45:48.479 --> 1:45:51.439 and we can communicate that way. Um. So our single 1:45:51.520 --> 1:45:53.960 man setups are really similar. Um. You know, the caller 1:45:54.080 --> 1:45:56.320 just calls, and like I said, you can sometimes play 1:45:56.360 --> 1:45:57.680 that win a little bit. You kind of know where 1:45:57.720 --> 1:46:00.040 you're shooting lanes are gonna be based on the wind in. 1:46:00.200 --> 1:46:03.280 But um, we're still aggressive. I'm doing the same exact thing, 1:46:04.880 --> 1:46:07.040 So I use a lot of trickery when I'm by 1:46:07.120 --> 1:46:12.000 myself hunting solo. So as as the bulls approaching, um, 1:46:12.240 --> 1:46:14.439 he gets in that sixty seventy yard range and I 1:46:15.320 --> 1:46:18.840 get that confirmation bugle where he's piste and he's coming. 1:46:20.120 --> 1:46:22.000 I might give him just one more, but at that 1:46:22.120 --> 1:46:24.720 point I'm just I'm gonna do. You start doing some 1:46:24.840 --> 1:46:27.639 trickery where I I kind of throw my voice throw 1:46:27.760 --> 1:46:30.000 and make my call quiet. So I'll do maybe a 1:46:30.080 --> 1:46:32.559 cal call into my gloved hand. I'll have my glove 1:46:32.640 --> 1:46:37.560 on and kind to mute it, to mute it, or 1:46:37.880 --> 1:46:41.040 I'll kind of make cut my hands and force it 1:46:41.120 --> 1:46:43.759 to a different direction. Um. Or I'll take my bugle 1:46:43.800 --> 1:46:45.960 tube and aim it completely opposite of me or off 1:46:46.000 --> 1:46:48.240 to the side a little bit, whichever direction I want 1:46:48.320 --> 1:46:50.880 him to go. Then I'll then I'll cover the into 1:46:50.960 --> 1:46:54.280 my tube with my hand a little bit and let 1:46:54.320 --> 1:46:57.040 a little air come out between my fingers, and they'll 1:46:57.040 --> 1:47:00.920 make a really quiet bugle and it'll it fools him. 1:47:00.960 --> 1:47:03.720 I've had bulls come running by me and I'll have 1:47:03.840 --> 1:47:05.680 to stop him. I'll have to scream right in their 1:47:05.720 --> 1:47:07.599 face to get him to stop and turn back around, 1:47:07.600 --> 1:47:10.640 because he thought he thinks I'm up the hill a 1:47:10.680 --> 1:47:14.360 hundred yards at that point. Yeah, so, and you can 1:47:14.400 --> 1:47:16.360 make it pretty decent. You just don't have to use 1:47:16.400 --> 1:47:18.360 as much air and it kind of changes your air 1:47:18.720 --> 1:47:22.080 your your airflow and your back pressure dynatic dynamics in there. 1:47:22.120 --> 1:47:24.320 So you can make a pretty good bugle with that 1:47:24.920 --> 1:47:34.760 with your hand over there, those falling far away, not 1:47:34.840 --> 1:47:38.400 as far away as yon, he's bull far away, but 1:47:38.439 --> 1:47:40.080 a lot of times if you can do that, it's 1:47:40.120 --> 1:47:42.880 just like, Okay, he's not in this spot anymore. He's 1:47:43.120 --> 1:47:45.080 over here a little bit, and then they'll come walking 1:47:45.160 --> 1:47:47.720 by and you can whack him a new one. For 1:47:47.760 --> 1:47:51.519 the national championships, you do a bull that's five miles away, 1:47:52.200 --> 1:47:55.920 he's getting closer and now I wanted a mile away. Yeah, 1:47:57.320 --> 1:47:59.800 you write that down right? Why are you? Why are 1:47:59.840 --> 1:48:01.920 you highlighting all kinds of stuff in our document? Oh, 1:48:02.040 --> 1:48:04.439 the ones that I feel like we've already gotten norse, 1:48:04.439 --> 1:48:07.720 so I can see what questions are left to hit? 1:48:08.760 --> 1:48:10.920 Which one do we not do? What's your feeling on 1:48:12.920 --> 1:48:14.640 I think you kind of answered maybe to answer this. 1:48:15.400 --> 1:48:18.479 People are like, oh, it's pre rut, it's peak rut, 1:48:18.880 --> 1:48:21.280 post rut. Are you changing your game? Are you just 1:48:21.400 --> 1:48:25.160 out there hunting. I'm just out there hunting. I'm pretty prescriptive. 1:48:25.200 --> 1:48:27.160 I do the same thing now if it's it's really early, 1:48:27.320 --> 1:48:30.400 you know, late August, first September, maybe a little more 1:48:30.479 --> 1:48:33.439 cal calling than typical, which is not still not very much, 1:48:33.520 --> 1:48:35.559 but you know, some of those bigger bulls are still roaming, 1:48:35.680 --> 1:48:37.800 you know, looking looking to gather up to hurt, and 1:48:37.840 --> 1:48:39.479 so I might do a little bit more you know, 1:48:39.560 --> 1:48:43.120 cal talking and being a call company owner, this kind 1:48:43.120 --> 1:48:45.599 of sucks. But a lot of times those paternable balls 1:48:45.800 --> 1:48:48.080 in in that late August, it's sometimes just better to 1:48:48.280 --> 1:48:51.240 go kill them without making a sound. But it's it's 1:48:51.280 --> 1:48:53.559 really hard to say, really hard to say, I'd rather 1:48:53.640 --> 1:48:55.200 I'd rather call out bowl and all fired up. But 1:48:55.240 --> 1:48:57.719 if you have a specific bowl or have some elk pattern, 1:48:57.880 --> 1:49:00.040 like maybe not even make a peep and go go 1:49:00.200 --> 1:49:04.040 kill him. Really but sometimes it's not gonna sell call no. 1:49:04.320 --> 1:49:07.120 But sometimes sometimes they're on fire, you know, late August, 1:49:07.160 --> 1:49:08.960 So I mean it's kind of match what what's going 1:49:09.000 --> 1:49:10.800 on in the area you're in. If there if you 1:49:10.920 --> 1:49:12.960 go in hu An area on August and there's not 1:49:13.000 --> 1:49:14.800 a peep, then I'm probably not gonna just hammer on 1:49:14.880 --> 1:49:17.200 my bugle all day, but um, if they're going off 1:49:17.280 --> 1:49:20.200 and then I'm gonna I'm gonna join in. Yeah, he's 1:49:20.240 --> 1:49:22.360 this the real question of a guy being kind of 1:49:22.439 --> 1:49:27.759 snarky about Phelps about the bugle every four seconds. Probably 1:49:27.960 --> 1:49:30.720 he's probably some insider that knows these guys. Can I say, 1:49:30.760 --> 1:49:32.920 can I read it how he said it? Why do 1:49:33.120 --> 1:49:35.439 all the guys that Phelps feel the need to bugle 1:49:35.520 --> 1:49:38.479 every four seconds? Is that the voice he said it? 1:49:38.560 --> 1:49:42.200 You think I feel? I really do feel like we 1:49:42.400 --> 1:49:44.240 hit it. It's funny. I'm glad you brought it up, 1:49:44.280 --> 1:49:46.760 but we hit it right off the top because Jason said, 1:49:46.960 --> 1:49:50.320 he's like, you can't. I can't overcall when I'm trying 1:49:50.360 --> 1:49:52.960 to locate Elk and usually that's by buglin. Well that's 1:49:52.960 --> 1:49:57.200 why you highlighted that one. Yeah, if anybody's ever been 1:49:57.240 --> 1:50:00.479 in a real rut fest with Elk, bulls will bugle 1:50:00.560 --> 1:50:04.560 every five seconds. Literally when they're on fire and and 1:50:04.760 --> 1:50:06.720 like chasing the hot cow or whatever. I mean, there'll 1:50:06.720 --> 1:50:09.439 be bulls people every five seconds. I've had bulls come 1:50:09.479 --> 1:50:13.720 from a quarter mile away bogle almost every step. Just 1:50:15.280 --> 1:50:18.080 just man, this is gonna happen, you know, So I 1:50:19.320 --> 1:50:22.840 think you can't really over bugle at the right times. 1:50:22.960 --> 1:50:24.880 You can sure to overdo it at other times at 1:50:24.880 --> 1:50:27.160 the wrong times. Just it it's situational and it kind 1:50:27.200 --> 1:50:29.800 of depends on on where you're at in your conversation 1:50:29.880 --> 1:50:32.599 with your elk. And we do I mean that that question, 1:50:32.920 --> 1:50:35.720 you know, it's probably very directed. Um. You know, we've 1:50:36.080 --> 1:50:37.760 I think all of us everywhere we've been, you know, 1:50:37.840 --> 1:50:40.000 we were heavy on the bagles. Everything we teach is 1:50:40.040 --> 1:50:42.719 heavy bugling. And I think people can get frustrated because 1:50:42.720 --> 1:50:45.200 we're out there. They think, you know, we're overcalling or 1:50:45.400 --> 1:50:48.080 telling people they should overcall. And then there's just right times, 1:50:48.120 --> 1:50:51.040 like we're not out there just buggling, you know from 1:50:51.080 --> 1:50:53.280 the truck window or doing this stuff you're not supposed to. 1:50:53.320 --> 1:50:55.560 It's it's somewhat calculated. We're trying to bugle in the 1:50:55.640 --> 1:50:58.919 new basins. But I just I don't think you're educating 1:50:59.000 --> 1:51:00.920 them until that, you know, you either call them in 1:51:00.960 --> 1:51:03.760 and windham, um, you know, if they've been messed with. 1:51:03.840 --> 1:51:05.599 But at the point where you're just if you sound 1:51:05.760 --> 1:51:08.000 enough like an elk, you're just basically saying, hey, I'm 1:51:08.080 --> 1:51:09.920 up here. You're wanting to get a response, hand him 1:51:09.920 --> 1:51:12.479 down here or you know, or hey, I'm over here. Um, 1:51:13.200 --> 1:51:15.880 I don't, and it's hard. I mean, we're just speculating 1:51:15.920 --> 1:51:17.639 what's going on. But I don't think you can shut 1:51:17.680 --> 1:51:19.800 down a complete area just by over biggling if you 1:51:19.840 --> 1:51:22.360 sound like an elk, you know, from from maybe an 1:51:22.400 --> 1:51:24.840 outsider's perspective. Let's say this guy's watching you from the 1:51:24.880 --> 1:51:26.400 other side of the base and the other side of 1:51:26.439 --> 1:51:28.360 the drainage, and he's watching you walk up the hill 1:51:28.800 --> 1:51:35.760 and you bugle every every two minutes. A guy, a 1:51:35.920 --> 1:51:39.640 person here is watching you, and you're like walking over 1:51:39.720 --> 1:51:41.120 here in your bugle, and you're walking over here, and 1:51:41.160 --> 1:51:43.240 you seem like that guy needs a shut up? Why 1:51:43.320 --> 1:51:45.800 is he bigling so much? But on your side, you're 1:51:45.800 --> 1:51:48.280 looking at train features. Okay, you're up on a on 1:51:48.360 --> 1:51:51.840 a ridge. You're bugling down into these canyons. Right. Well, 1:51:52.080 --> 1:51:54.400 if I walk a hundred yards this way, I've got 1:51:54.439 --> 1:51:57.120 a little different angle down into this draw We're I'm 1:51:57.160 --> 1:52:00.040 bugle into you know, I've had this before. We're I 1:52:00.040 --> 1:52:02.280 couldn't hardly hear a bull walk a hundred yards and 1:52:02.320 --> 1:52:05.720 then wow, I can hear him really well? Um, yeah, 1:52:05.720 --> 1:52:09.640 I mean it's crazy hunting with two dudes where the 1:52:09.680 --> 1:52:13.479 guy who's five ft ten feet up the mountain above you, 1:52:13.880 --> 1:52:16.360 it's like did you hear that? You know? And I'm 1:52:16.479 --> 1:52:19.639 down below and being like hear what makes to each 1:52:19.640 --> 1:52:22.639 other on the trail talking All of a sudden, it's 1:52:22.640 --> 1:52:24.920 like three guys also, two of them frantically point in 1:52:24.960 --> 1:52:28.559 some directions. Every one was like what yeah, yeah, He's 1:52:28.560 --> 1:52:29.880 like you're like in the middle of a thaw or 1:52:29.920 --> 1:52:31.519 you're getting d you know what I mean, whatever, man, 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:33.880 you just it's just different. I liken it to fishing. 1:52:33.960 --> 1:52:36.000 I mean, you don't just go up to your fishing spot, 1:52:36.280 --> 1:52:38.599 throw one cast out and be like, yeah, no fishing here. 1:52:38.680 --> 1:52:41.240 I mean you you cast this way, every little bit, 1:52:41.280 --> 1:52:43.760 you cover that entire little spot where you're standing in 1:52:43.800 --> 1:52:46.720 the river before you ever move, you go up, you know, 1:52:46.840 --> 1:52:49.240 however far to start casting again. It's the same with 1:52:49.320 --> 1:52:51.439 elk counting. I mean, you gotta probe every little spot. 1:52:52.800 --> 1:52:54.360 There might be a bullet can't hear you, or you 1:52:54.439 --> 1:52:56.320 can't hear him and it's like, oh, there he is. 1:52:56.920 --> 1:52:59.000 Or many times you know, you locate, locate, locate, You 1:52:59.080 --> 1:53:00.599 might be six hunder yards on the trail and one 1:53:00.640 --> 1:53:03.120 answers you know, right back to the spot you bugle 1:53:03.160 --> 1:53:04.760 three or four times ago. It's just you don't know 1:53:04.760 --> 1:53:06.840 where they're eating, what they're doing, if they're paying attention, 1:53:06.960 --> 1:53:08.439 or just didn't feel like answering you when you were 1:53:08.520 --> 1:53:10.960 that close. So what does why do you? What does 1:53:11.080 --> 1:53:14.479 all the guys that felps mean? How many guys are there? 1:53:16.000 --> 1:53:18.439 I know, your mind, your wife are there? They call 1:53:18.479 --> 1:53:20.320 it too much. I think it's more of our our 1:53:20.680 --> 1:53:23.320 end users, you know, the I think we get you 1:53:23.479 --> 1:53:26.680 and your your disciples. Yeah, yeah, I mean all of us, us, 1:53:26.720 --> 1:53:28.800 the born and raised crew, you know Derk, all of 1:53:28.920 --> 1:53:30.920 us that that teach and hunt the way we do, 1:53:31.400 --> 1:53:33.360 and you know we we bugle a lot. So I 1:53:33.400 --> 1:53:37.080 think they're they're they're lumping the crew and who uses 1:53:37.120 --> 1:53:40.439 our stuff? And and yeah, there's there's different camps in 1:53:40.479 --> 1:53:42.720 the way to hunt. Right there's the guy that I 1:53:42.880 --> 1:53:44.920 never bugle, I just caw call. And there's the guys 1:53:44.960 --> 1:53:47.360 that say, I never make an ELK call at all. 1:53:47.400 --> 1:53:50.120 I just shadow the herd and I wait for my opportunity. 1:53:50.160 --> 1:53:53.120 And then there's our camp that bugles all the time. 1:53:53.240 --> 1:53:57.599 So they're probably saying, yeah, those helps guys. Yeah, if 1:53:57.640 --> 1:54:00.400 you guys kill like a shipload elk every year, we 1:54:00.520 --> 1:54:03.400 try like between you guys and been born and raised, like, 1:54:04.640 --> 1:54:06.839 I don't think there's a reason to be like starting 1:54:06.880 --> 1:54:09.240 about why you guys called too much. It works, It works. 1:54:09.280 --> 1:54:11.560 I mean I think it's just people maybe get a 1:54:11.600 --> 1:54:13.280 little bit disgusting, you know, somebody's in the area and 1:54:13.320 --> 1:54:15.200 then just people biggling all over it. And so I 1:54:15.240 --> 1:54:17.679 think it's just kind of generated that that hate for bugles. 1:54:17.840 --> 1:54:20.559 You've heard that for, Yeah, I mean in Colorado last year, 1:54:20.720 --> 1:54:22.720 I mean we were we were trying to chase the 1:54:22.800 --> 1:54:25.400 real bull why trying to avoid like the three other 1:54:25.479 --> 1:54:27.519 fake bugles that were chasing us, and we're trying to 1:54:27.560 --> 1:54:29.439 stay between them and the bull that we got going. 1:54:29.479 --> 1:54:30.840 It was just, I mean, there are a lot of 1:54:30.880 --> 1:54:32.800 guys out there bugling in some of these areas, and 1:54:32.840 --> 1:54:35.320 so I can see why, Hey, everybody, just put your 1:54:35.360 --> 1:54:38.120 tubes away. But you know this one time in Idaho, 1:54:38.320 --> 1:54:41.800 was hunting with Corey Jacobson and Donnie Drake and we 1:54:41.880 --> 1:54:43.680 got back to the pickup and there was a note 1:54:43.880 --> 1:54:46.000 on the pickup and said, if you guys were hunting 1:54:46.080 --> 1:54:49.720 up the basin. This morning, you bagle way in in 1:54:49.920 --> 1:54:54.560 capital letters, way too much. With bogle the normal amount 1:54:54.640 --> 1:54:56.560 you can go up the basin, you cover around, you 1:54:56.640 --> 1:54:58.640 make a big loop. You know you're probe and you're 1:54:58.680 --> 1:55:01.760 listening for Elkin. I mean, we didn't bugle excessively in 1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:05.240 our mind, but that guy was probably like, listen to 1:55:05.240 --> 1:55:10.760 those idiots down there, divisive. Yeah you guys build a 1:55:10.800 --> 1:55:13.240 new uh you build a new facility. Yeah yeah, a 1:55:13.320 --> 1:55:17.320 new shop, new warehouse, office space. Finally, um, make us 1:55:17.360 --> 1:55:20.200 way more efficient. Still got a day job. We have 1:55:20.320 --> 1:55:25.160 part time, part time training my replacement. But um, it's 1:55:25.200 --> 1:55:27.720 about training to replace. Yeah. It's about a two year process. 1:55:28.040 --> 1:55:29.640 So what we do is not like you know that 1:55:29.800 --> 1:55:32.160 much stuff. Well yeah, well it's just it's not normal 1:55:32.240 --> 1:55:34.720 and it's cyclical. So you're always doing something as a 1:55:34.800 --> 1:55:37.640 granty eight, you know, you write grants and interview grants, 1:55:37.680 --> 1:55:39.160 so it's like, well on this day, you don't do 1:55:39.240 --> 1:55:41.360 the same thing you do like next week. So it 1:55:41.400 --> 1:55:44.400 takes about two years to go through and and figure 1:55:44.400 --> 1:55:46.440 it out. So hopefully when that's all done, we'll look 1:55:46.480 --> 1:55:49.840 at reducing the time there. I love seeing it though, man, 1:55:49.920 --> 1:55:52.000 like someone like built you know it's also making a 1:55:52.040 --> 1:55:55.320 cool little business. And I'm just I just saverboded a Dirk. 1:55:55.360 --> 1:55:58.640 Now he'll take care of you. I'm busy. Now he does. 1:56:00.080 --> 1:56:02.879 Um what else we got, Yannie? I'm getting into Yanni's 1:56:02.920 --> 1:56:05.080 brain a little bit here by looking at how he 1:56:05.280 --> 1:56:10.440 highlights stuff. I would think that one, in my mind, 1:56:10.560 --> 1:56:15.720 one highlights things that are meant to pay attention to. 1:56:16.560 --> 1:56:21.400 Yanni highlights things that you're supposed to ignore. So if 1:56:21.480 --> 1:56:24.640 Yanni left you a note and highlighted parts of it, 1:56:25.720 --> 1:56:29.800 you think that he was highlighting the parts that's highlighting. 1:56:29.960 --> 1:56:32.760 He's actually highlighting the parts that are at least important. 1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:38.040 Yanna's just switched to a black highlights real quick scratch out. 1:56:38.120 --> 1:56:40.720 You might you might want to find a strikeout feature. Yeah, 1:56:40.880 --> 1:56:43.760 that's pretty, that's like, yeah, you just figured it out. 1:56:44.640 --> 1:56:49.720 So highlight means that we're done with it. Uh So 1:56:50.040 --> 1:56:52.520 the fact that it's not highlighted makes me feel that 1:56:52.600 --> 1:56:56.200 Yanni wants to talk about this is good. Hit him 1:56:56.200 --> 1:57:00.480 with number twenty three, Yanni, number Oh, would you rather 1:57:00.560 --> 1:57:06.840 call a bull uphill or downhill? Downhill? Side hill? That's 1:57:06.880 --> 1:57:09.520 not an option? I need straight question because for me, 1:57:09.640 --> 1:57:12.080 it's it doesn't matter. It's like, well, whatever the wind's doing, 1:57:12.160 --> 1:57:15.160 that's gonna be. I mean, let's assume that the winds 1:57:15.160 --> 1:57:17.600 good in both those situations that I, in my opinion, 1:57:17.680 --> 1:57:20.080 calling bull's downhill. They've got gravity on their side. You know, 1:57:20.120 --> 1:57:22.600 two bulls that think they're gonna posture up. That bull 1:57:22.680 --> 1:57:26.120 coming from uphill towards downhill has got the advantage at 1:57:26.160 --> 1:57:29.280 that point. Um, so I think he'll come more easily down. Yeah, 1:57:29.280 --> 1:57:31.640 because he's got an advantage with gravity on his side. YEA. 1:57:31.680 --> 1:57:33.200 If I was on a steep pitch and I was 1:57:33.200 --> 1:57:36.840 supposed to fight, Yannia, be like, I'll take the uphill, 1:57:36.920 --> 1:57:39.160 see exactly. Oh yeah, that's a good point. Now why 1:57:39.200 --> 1:57:42.240 do you like sidehilling? Um? Okay, so you have your 1:57:42.280 --> 1:57:45.200 thermals to go up and down. Okay. So let's say here, 1:57:45.240 --> 1:57:47.560 it is two o'clock in the afternoon. You got this 1:57:47.640 --> 1:57:50.280 bull going, You get on the side hill from him. Okay, 1:57:50.360 --> 1:57:52.920 it's easy for him to come straight straight across to you, 1:57:53.080 --> 1:57:56.880 which they prefer. Most elk trails do come across the hill. 1:57:56.960 --> 1:57:58.800 That's a good point. So it's very easy. Make it 1:57:58.880 --> 1:58:01.600 easy for him to come to you. And also you're 1:58:01.840 --> 1:58:05.800 you're you're strategizing with the wind. So it's the middle 1:58:05.800 --> 1:58:07.800 of the day, got a warm hill side, you got 1:58:08.080 --> 1:58:10.880 thermal's going up. All of a sudden, big cloud comes over. 1:58:11.440 --> 1:58:14.839 Where what's the thermals do? They go back downhill? Sometimes 1:58:14.880 --> 1:58:16.320 they swirl a little bit, but hardly to do that 1:58:16.400 --> 1:58:19.800 if you go straight sideways, so you're kind of stack 1:58:19.840 --> 1:58:23.000 on that wind in your favor um to where you 1:58:23.040 --> 1:58:25.680 know if the wind has change that or if your 1:58:25.680 --> 1:58:28.880 side hill. Let's say that bull drops, you can drop 1:58:28.960 --> 1:58:31.120 really quickly to try to get on his same level 1:58:31.160 --> 1:58:32.960 again and so he don't get your wind, or you 1:58:33.000 --> 1:58:36.680 can climb and not as far if he if he's 1:58:36.760 --> 1:58:38.920 trying to go above you and get you. I'm feeling yeah, 1:58:39.280 --> 1:58:41.480 you know, it's funny talk about like how trails, Uh 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:43.800 you guys ever spent much time in wild Pig country 1:58:44.680 --> 1:58:47.080 because you get used to how trails are on hills 1:58:47.160 --> 1:58:50.240 always angles like they either side hill they cut those 1:58:50.560 --> 1:58:52.920 like switchback angles. You know, all your trails hither like that, 1:58:53.400 --> 1:58:56.320 and wild Pig country see trails just going smack up hills. 1:58:57.080 --> 1:59:00.240 Oh wow, trails like running straight up hill and don't 1:59:00.240 --> 1:59:01.640 even think about and you look as like that's the 1:59:01.680 --> 1:59:04.520 weirdest looking trail because you realize how many trails are 1:59:04.600 --> 1:59:10.440 like shallow, you know, shallow crisscross you kind of networks. Okay, 1:59:10.520 --> 1:59:16.120 so there's that one. I like seven. I do too, 1:59:16.280 --> 1:59:19.160 But they already answered it. We gonna ask it again, 1:59:19.240 --> 1:59:22.480 though they answering in a roundabout way. Is blind cow 1:59:22.600 --> 1:59:26.440 calling while creeping through the woods a good tactic? What 1:59:26.560 --> 1:59:29.080 I'll do rather than creep through the woods. Let's say 1:59:29.640 --> 1:59:32.120 I haven't heard any bulls and I'm just covering country. 1:59:32.160 --> 1:59:34.880 I'm going from point A to point B, and I 1:59:34.920 --> 1:59:37.600 don't want to be quiet because I gotta get there. 1:59:38.200 --> 1:59:40.920 So as I'm walking along, stomping on brush and kicking 1:59:41.000 --> 1:59:44.480 rocks and stuff, I'll just throwout a couple of cow 1:59:44.560 --> 1:59:47.960 calls every little bit that and and a lot of times, 1:59:48.000 --> 1:59:50.960 even just walking through the woods popping brush without a 1:59:51.000 --> 1:59:53.120 cow call, you'll get a bullet. It's close by. He'll 1:59:53.120 --> 1:59:55.120 fire up and be like, hey, you're an elk. I 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:57.800 know it is. It's gotta be you located my bolosh 1:59:57.840 --> 2:00:01.280 in Colorado when we're just walking through calcul one was 2:00:01.280 --> 2:00:03.560 a cow calor bugle? Thank you? Cal called. They're just 2:00:03.720 --> 2:00:07.040 one stimond he answered. Here's a good one. I like 2:00:07.200 --> 2:00:11.960 this one. What about a guy that's uh, let's say, uh, 2:00:13.320 --> 2:00:16.920 you were on a cow tag. What do you bring 2:00:16.960 --> 2:00:21.120 out in the woods for calls exact same spike or cows. 2:00:21.280 --> 2:00:23.920 I'm still gonna locate that herd ball or get able 2:00:23.960 --> 2:00:26.400 to answer because the cows are going to be around here. Yeah, 2:00:26.440 --> 2:00:28.000 so at least start the game the same. You're still 2:00:28.000 --> 2:00:29.400 gonna move in get the win, right, so you're out 2:00:29.440 --> 2:00:31.160 of the cow tag, you bring in your bugle, ye, 2:00:31.360 --> 2:00:34.960 I mean because you you the game is still the 2:00:35.000 --> 2:00:37.240 same right until the end of you know how, you're 2:00:37.240 --> 2:00:39.360 gonna kill that cow and then I would probably keep 2:00:39.400 --> 2:00:41.560 that bull bugle and then just more spot and stock 2:00:41.600 --> 2:00:43.200 at that point, just try to squeeze in close enough 2:00:43.200 --> 2:00:45.800 to the herd to get a shot versus calling that bowling. 2:00:46.680 --> 2:00:49.120 That's interesting. Same with spike hunters. You know, get hey, 2:00:49.200 --> 2:00:51.200 we can only hunt spikes and each from Washington this year. 2:00:51.480 --> 2:00:53.720 What should I do by pretend like you're unting the 2:00:53.720 --> 2:00:55.480 herdball right till the end and then caw call him in, 2:00:55.640 --> 2:00:58.240 but then don't shoot him. Yeah. I don't know how 2:00:58.320 --> 2:01:00.600 many times I've had spikes come around and then just like, 2:01:01.240 --> 2:01:03.720 oh man, there's somebody else over hey man, and then 2:01:03.920 --> 2:01:06.160 too late. So seriously, like you go out like I'm 2:01:06.240 --> 2:01:08.240 hunting a cow tag or whatever you got, and you're 2:01:08.280 --> 2:01:10.320 bugling to find Elk. Oh yeah, I mean I would 2:01:10.360 --> 2:01:12.000 still glass first. Thing, Like if I didn't have to 2:01:12.040 --> 2:01:14.280 make a sound, it would be ideal. But um say 2:01:14.280 --> 2:01:15.880 they're all, you know, going to timber in the bras, 2:01:15.920 --> 2:01:17.600 you can't spot them anymore. I would just go back 2:01:17.640 --> 2:01:21.240 to locate and just like hunting big bulls. Hmm, it's 2:01:21.240 --> 2:01:22.760 gonna that's gonna piss a lot of people off because 2:01:22.760 --> 2:01:25.440 they're gonna have all the cow hunters out there. But 2:01:26.200 --> 2:01:28.880 that's interesting, man, that's interesting. Or I mean you don't 2:01:29.160 --> 2:01:30.760 after being a bagle, you can you know, you can 2:01:30.840 --> 2:01:33.040 chase the real bagles that you hear without locating them. 2:01:33.080 --> 2:01:35.240 But I just feel like you can force her hand, 2:01:35.920 --> 2:01:37.360 force him to make sound a little bit better if 2:01:37.400 --> 2:01:42.560 you had the location bogle with you. Yeah, I'm liking 2:01:42.600 --> 2:01:52.080 that number thirty. That's boring. Different whatever you want answer, 2:01:52.480 --> 2:01:54.520 my answer will be boring. That's a good question. Are 2:01:54.560 --> 2:02:00.200 there different calling Roosevelt Elk versus a copy? Yeah? Minds 2:02:00.200 --> 2:02:03.880 how highlighted though our guests are prepared. I don't think 2:02:03.880 --> 2:02:06.960 you should give him a copy of the question. Dude, 2:02:07.480 --> 2:02:11.000 how are we gonna get a gotcha moment? You got 2:02:11.080 --> 2:02:15.120 plenty of So the difference between Roosevelt and Rocky I 2:02:15.280 --> 2:02:17.480 was fortunate if UM grew up in the little body 2:02:17.640 --> 2:02:19.760 gave you a copy of the questions he wanted us 2:02:19.760 --> 2:02:21.320 to be prepared. We had to, We had to google 2:02:21.360 --> 2:02:27.520 all these Well, the do you find your ant attractive? Question? Yeah, 2:02:27.600 --> 2:02:29.360 hold on, that can be a bit of a gotcha. 2:02:30.240 --> 2:02:32.120 So growing up, you know, an hour from the coast 2:02:32.160 --> 2:02:35.080 of Washington, grew up, all I knew was Roosevelt hunting. 2:02:35.360 --> 2:02:37.160 UM fortunate enough in the last ten years to get 2:02:37.160 --> 2:02:39.760 the hunt Rockies. They sound exactly the same. We call 2:02:39.880 --> 2:02:42.600 them exactly the same. The one main difference I feel 2:02:42.640 --> 2:02:44.680 in the areas I've hunted is that the Rockies aren't 2:02:44.720 --> 2:02:48.160 really tied down to a necessarily a court area, um, 2:02:48.200 --> 2:02:50.520 where like Roosevelt's they will live their entire life in 2:02:50.600 --> 2:02:53.320 a one mile one and a half mile circle. Um. 2:02:53.480 --> 2:02:56.400 Is the main difference is that right for the most part. 2:02:56.480 --> 2:02:58.760 So like you, I hear that about I hear that 2:02:58.800 --> 2:03:01.840 about black Tales in the rainforest two people top all 2:03:01.880 --> 2:03:03.760 he'll have a zone man and that's where he lives. Yea, 2:03:03.840 --> 2:03:05.640 the same with our elk. We grew up as a 2:03:05.720 --> 2:03:07.880 rifle muzzlier hunter. Like you spooked the elk, like you 2:03:07.920 --> 2:03:09.680 might as well, just the way they went turned around 2:03:09.720 --> 2:03:11.560 and walked the circle backwards and we went. They're they're 2:03:11.600 --> 2:03:13.760 trying to get back to where you know you spooked 2:03:13.840 --> 2:03:16.080 him and get back to their core piece of timber. 2:03:16.200 --> 2:03:18.640 And um, we're rockies. It's like you bump them in 2:03:18.640 --> 2:03:20.280 the next time you see them, like five miles away 2:03:20.360 --> 2:03:22.240 running the next ridge. Still they're just gonna go find 2:03:22.240 --> 2:03:24.520 a new place to live, you know, or whatever. But 2:03:24.840 --> 2:03:26.840 that that that's the main difference. Like Colling is the 2:03:26.920 --> 2:03:31.320 same our our Roosevelt's chuckle more, I think, um sometimes 2:03:31.480 --> 2:03:32.920 you know, I would say half the bulls don't even 2:03:32.960 --> 2:03:35.720 get a high note vehgle. They just did chuckle um, 2:03:35.840 --> 2:03:37.880 which is a little bit of a difference. But you know, 2:03:37.920 --> 2:03:40.600 other than that, they all sound the same. Yeah, I've 2:03:40.640 --> 2:03:43.520 never hunted Roosevelts, so I can't really comment on that. 2:03:43.800 --> 2:03:47.560 What are the main states you like to hunt? Um Love, Wyoming, 2:03:47.960 --> 2:03:51.000 um hunter, Montana wants. I'd like to hunt in Arizona 2:03:51.120 --> 2:03:54.600 some day, but Idaho's basically might go to because I 2:03:54.680 --> 2:03:57.280 live there, you know, hunt close to home, and it's 2:03:57.360 --> 2:04:00.160 probably the worst elk hunting in Idaho right there club us. 2:04:00.240 --> 2:04:03.200 But um, it's close and I know the area and 2:04:03.760 --> 2:04:06.520 and it's easier to get away, you know. Speaking of 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:09.760 getting away, guy wanted to know what's the best way 2:04:10.080 --> 2:04:13.160 to ask my wife to extend a hunting trip without 2:04:13.240 --> 2:04:19.200 getting in trouble. All that is, um is preparation before 2:04:19.280 --> 2:04:21.720 hunting season ever gets there. That's all the lead up. 2:04:21.960 --> 2:04:25.120 So you pay your dues, all winner all summer. Yeah, 2:04:25.600 --> 2:04:28.120 with your wife. You you do all those things with 2:04:28.200 --> 2:04:30.560 your wife, you know, let her know, like, hey, I 2:04:30.880 --> 2:04:34.280 really like to take an extended vacation this year elk hunting. 2:04:34.640 --> 2:04:37.160 And then so you start, you start laying the groundwork 2:04:37.240 --> 2:04:39.520 win as soon as you know you're gonna go hunt 2:04:39.560 --> 2:04:41.800 and say I'm gonna do this is my plan this year. 2:04:42.080 --> 2:04:44.000 And then but that you know, I'm gonna make sure 2:04:44.200 --> 2:04:48.360 you get you're into the deal good too. Yeah yeah, 2:04:48.400 --> 2:04:55.360 toe you're out of your hair. Yeah, they're out of 2:04:55.400 --> 2:04:58.000 the hair. One of them is making his own money. 2:04:58.040 --> 2:05:01.640 And my daughter she still in college so pretty soon 2:05:01.680 --> 2:05:05.200 maybe we'll get him off the payroll. So now you're 2:05:05.240 --> 2:05:08.560 only But that's what I'm talking about. Man, you got 2:05:08.600 --> 2:05:10.760 all that over with, right, forty five and I got 2:05:10.800 --> 2:05:12.760 the whole deal ahead of me. But the bad part 2:05:12.920 --> 2:05:16.680 is being forty five and being an empty nester is now, 2:05:16.760 --> 2:05:19.560 who are my friend options? Like, hey, let's go hang out? Well, 2:05:19.600 --> 2:05:21.960 I can't all my people my age, they got little kids, 2:05:22.040 --> 2:05:24.360 so well we got baseball, we got this or that one. 2:05:24.720 --> 2:05:28.000 Now it's like old retirees, you know, like sixty year olds, like, hey, 2:05:28.080 --> 2:05:29.480 you want to go? I don't know. I don't think 2:05:29.480 --> 2:05:34.720 I couldn't do. You got guys like year old, Yeah, true, true, 2:05:34.760 --> 2:05:39.160 they're interested. Now yeah, there you go there. So okay, 2:05:39.240 --> 2:05:41.200 so I want to get back. I needed to get 2:05:41.240 --> 2:05:43.520 a better snapshot of what because if you're like divorced 2:05:43.560 --> 2:05:47.920 three times, right, yeah, I pay attention. I just had 2:05:47.960 --> 2:05:49.480 to get that. I had to find out what we're talking, 2:05:49.560 --> 2:05:51.480 what we're what we're working with here. So you're saying 2:05:52.080 --> 2:05:55.560 that you're real upfront. Yeah you're like, come September or whatever, 2:05:55.680 --> 2:05:58.720 here's what's gonna happen. But I'm gonna I'm gonna really 2:05:59.760 --> 2:06:03.920 throw down hard on husbanding. Yeah, yeah, I say, honey, 2:06:03.920 --> 2:06:06.280 I'm gonna do anything you want to do the rest 2:06:06.360 --> 2:06:08.440 of the year, but please let me have my time 2:06:08.480 --> 2:06:11.880 in September or whatever hunt months you're hunting. Let me 2:06:11.960 --> 2:06:15.480 have my time. Then I was just gonna say, you 2:06:15.480 --> 2:06:18.000 don't even have to request like an extra couple of days. 2:06:18.120 --> 2:06:19.600 You're just calling and check it in and saying, hey, 2:06:19.640 --> 2:06:23.240 I'm gonna be home Friday instead of Wednesday. Right, what's 2:06:23.280 --> 2:06:30.920 the thing you did, um to earn hunting time? Uh? 2:06:31.120 --> 2:06:32.880 What's the thing you did that was you feel the 2:06:32.960 --> 2:06:40.880 most out of character for you? Oh? Um, I don't know. 2:06:40.960 --> 2:06:43.080 Go to the big city, you know, go go take 2:06:43.120 --> 2:06:45.880 a trip to Seattle, Washington or something and and hang 2:06:45.960 --> 2:06:48.880 out and walking walk up and down the wharf there 2:06:48.960 --> 2:06:51.120 and check things out. That's not my cup of tea 2:06:51.160 --> 2:06:54.040 at all. You're cool about it. Yeah, right, you're like, man, 2:06:54.120 --> 2:06:56.920 this is the best time. I'm like complain a little 2:06:56.960 --> 2:07:01.240 bit in Seattle. Well, you know, it's just horrible, but 2:07:01.760 --> 2:07:04.560 um yeah, but I yeah, I pay those dudes because 2:07:05.480 --> 2:07:07.320 I want to make sure that And and it's the 2:07:07.360 --> 2:07:10.720 great thing about my wife is she she understands men. 2:07:10.800 --> 2:07:13.800 Neither time me neither time to kind of get away 2:07:13.880 --> 2:07:16.440 from things, the pressures of life and kind of decompress, 2:07:16.840 --> 2:07:19.040 find themselves a little bit in the woods. And then 2:07:19.080 --> 2:07:21.720 because she knows, when I come back, I'm better. I'm 2:07:21.760 --> 2:07:24.560 usually better, you know, I'm a better person. I've I've 2:07:24.600 --> 2:07:28.480 kind of left some things behind. Um, I feel like, okay, 2:07:28.520 --> 2:07:30.760 now I can focus on other things other than just 2:07:30.880 --> 2:07:33.280 got all this stuff about hunting in my head. I 2:07:33.400 --> 2:07:37.960 think that it's helpful. There's a game you play, like 2:07:38.040 --> 2:07:39.800 if you've got the break to your spouse that you're 2:07:39.920 --> 2:07:45.480 going to do something that's gonna leave them, you know, 2:07:45.800 --> 2:07:48.920 it's gonna leave them in a troubled spot. Meaning like 2:07:49.120 --> 2:07:51.960 for us in my marriage, it's not about that you're gone. 2:07:52.080 --> 2:07:54.400 It's not that that you're absent and I miss you. 2:07:54.680 --> 2:07:57.240 It's that there's a lot that has to happen because 2:07:57.280 --> 2:08:01.560 we're raising young kids, right, So you know, if I 2:08:01.680 --> 2:08:04.040 if I had to worry about that, it wouldn't really 2:08:04.040 --> 2:08:07.880 matter at all. Right, Like we were kind of you know, 2:08:08.000 --> 2:08:10.400 we have our lives and we're cool with each other, 2:08:10.560 --> 2:08:12.800 and you know it's like if if I don't see 2:08:12.840 --> 2:08:14.840 my wife for a while, it's right, I don't need 2:08:14.880 --> 2:08:16.760 to worry what she's up to. Right, there's a lot 2:08:16.800 --> 2:08:20.720 of trust and faith, but to leave, you're sort of saying, like, 2:08:21.280 --> 2:08:23.720 I'm taking off. We won't see each other. That's cool, 2:08:23.960 --> 2:08:26.640 but I realized that while I'm gone, you're dealing with 2:08:28.040 --> 2:08:30.680 a lot, you know, yeah, a lot of responsibility. It's 2:08:30.680 --> 2:08:32.480 like a lot taking her little kids are heard. But 2:08:32.720 --> 2:08:36.120 uh so you wind up battling in your head between 2:08:36.160 --> 2:08:40.280 this thing of down playing how long you be gone 2:08:41.920 --> 2:08:46.080 or over playing how long you be gone. So you're 2:08:46.080 --> 2:08:48.480 sort of like you want to leave and everything's cool, right, 2:08:48.960 --> 2:08:51.520 it's like, oh, yeah, probably just two three days because 2:08:51.520 --> 2:08:54.240 they're like, oh, that's not so bad, right if and 2:08:54.320 --> 2:08:58.080 then you feel that then if you want to stay longer, 2:08:58.200 --> 2:09:01.280 you're like, dah, I wish I would have been more truthful, 2:09:01.480 --> 2:09:03.880 But had I been more truthful, then I might not 2:09:03.960 --> 2:09:07.880 have left with the good blessing. Right. It's like you 2:09:08.040 --> 2:09:10.080 you're gambling. You're gambling the way because you could come 2:09:10.120 --> 2:09:13.080 and be like, I'm going ten days and then they're 2:09:13.120 --> 2:09:16.360 annoyed and you come back earlier and it's cool, but 2:09:17.000 --> 2:09:19.000 you're you're up in the chance that you're gonna leave 2:09:19.040 --> 2:09:23.160 and they're already annoyed. Yeah, it's kind of a tough one. 2:09:23.360 --> 2:09:25.920 A lot of times, like when the kids were little, Um, 2:09:26.760 --> 2:09:29.280 we would take the whole fam damnly to to help 2:09:29.320 --> 2:09:32.200 camp and Mama and the kids would hang out camp 2:09:32.280 --> 2:09:35.080 and getting the dirt and dig and build spears and 2:09:35.320 --> 2:09:38.800 do whatever else kids do it at a little kid age. 2:09:39.160 --> 2:09:41.840 And I go hunting, and I come back sometimes head 2:09:41.840 --> 2:09:43.920 out in the morning, come back and sometimes come back 2:09:43.960 --> 2:09:45.800 around lunch and go and then go back for an 2:09:45.840 --> 2:09:48.120 evening hunter. Sometimes you'll be gone all day, depending on 2:09:48.160 --> 2:09:51.520 where the spot I was gonna hunt. Um. But that 2:09:51.600 --> 2:09:55.240 made a big difference too, because that that engages them, 2:09:55.280 --> 2:09:57.040 that gives them something fun to do that The kids 2:09:57.120 --> 2:10:00.440 love being being there. They understand what dad's doing. Um. 2:10:00.760 --> 2:10:05.040 And then um, as the teenagers got as they got teenagers, 2:10:05.120 --> 2:10:07.720 you know, then they have other responsibilities. You know, they're 2:10:07.720 --> 2:10:09.800 they're playing sports and stuff like that, and it's tough 2:10:09.840 --> 2:10:12.320 for them to get away to go hunting with dad. Um. 2:10:12.920 --> 2:10:15.120 So yeah, that's why I don't think that's that's a 2:10:15.160 --> 2:10:18.040 good idea. Yeah. I always said we should have had 2:10:18.080 --> 2:10:20.880 our kids be bookworms, you know, and just like hell, yeah, man, 2:10:21.120 --> 2:10:25.800 heck with sports, you know, dirt bikes and and four 2:10:25.800 --> 2:10:29.720 wheelersion and scheduling and just where you can just go 2:10:30.120 --> 2:10:31.920 and enjoy the outdoors. That's the way to do it. 2:10:32.080 --> 2:10:35.040 That's definitely the way to do it. Why don't know, Janni, 2:10:35.080 --> 2:10:38.000 they're supposed to have a far off bugle comp Someone 2:10:38.040 --> 2:10:41.160 actually asked for this. They wanted to be honest, Dirk 2:10:41.240 --> 2:10:45.440 and Jason to do a no call whistling only who 2:10:45.520 --> 2:10:47.960 can do the best way far off elk oh, I 2:10:48.040 --> 2:10:52.160 got this? Oh you did you do this too? Like 2:10:52.240 --> 2:10:54.600 when I tell a story, you know, okay, I've only happened. 2:10:54.800 --> 2:10:57.400 I've told this story once before. It's only worked once 2:10:57.480 --> 2:10:59.480 for me. But we were walking along the area you 2:10:59.520 --> 2:11:02.880 actually did, says a hunch along as the irrigation along 2:11:02.920 --> 2:11:06.200 in the irrigation ditch and George Brown leave his name was. 2:11:06.680 --> 2:11:08.440 He's like, have you ever heard of guys whistling for 2:11:08.600 --> 2:11:11.040 tbugle bulls? It's like no, never have its like give 2:11:11.120 --> 2:11:16.480 a shot, you know just what kind of stood there? 2:11:16.640 --> 2:11:19.200 And all of a sudden I just hear hoofs coming 2:11:21.360 --> 2:11:23.840 and coming up the hill. I mean there's calves and 2:11:24.000 --> 2:11:26.280 cows and I can see a brand Chandler bull coming 2:11:26.760 --> 2:11:30.200 and they literally ran by us and just went on 2:11:30.360 --> 2:11:31.760 up the timber and we had and it was late 2:11:31.760 --> 2:11:33.360 in the morning, so we're like, all right, we'll come back, 2:11:33.440 --> 2:11:34.960 and we got we know where there's out for the 2:11:35.040 --> 2:11:38.440 evening hunt. But I don't think I've ever gotten response since, 2:11:39.600 --> 2:11:42.160 and it was just coincidence. I've never got a response 2:11:42.760 --> 2:11:55.800 one that's a whole different approach it again. Read yeah, 2:11:56.080 --> 2:11:59.760 my west line working. That doesn't have that that lonesome 2:12:00.000 --> 2:12:08.160 distant sound. It's got the reverb though. James Phelps, Wow, 2:12:08.360 --> 2:12:18.120 that was pretty sight the chap Man, it was really 2:12:18.200 --> 2:12:25.800 it was really windy. Word. I can't whistle? Apparently I 2:12:25.920 --> 2:12:35.920 can't either. That's going it's some kind of weird bird 2:12:36.080 --> 2:12:43.880 seth whistle man, I can't wis had a wooden whistle, 2:12:43.880 --> 2:12:45.200 but it wouldn't whistle. That was the thing my dad 2:12:45.320 --> 2:12:47.960 used to say. One last fun one, if you could 2:12:48.040 --> 2:12:51.920 only hunt with one September fift would you bring your 2:12:51.960 --> 2:12:56.920 binos or bring your calls? Calls? Calls? Where's that question? 2:12:57.040 --> 2:13:00.520 Steve bos Are called, did you say a date? Yes, 2:13:00.560 --> 2:13:03.960 September fifteen? He doesn't say a date. Why are you corrupting? 2:13:04.560 --> 2:13:10.520 The person's question? Is the crowdsourced or not. It is. 2:13:10.600 --> 2:13:14.120 I'm just making it better. I'm hunting on September fifteen, 2:13:14.160 --> 2:13:15.960 and I could have my vinyals or my calls. I'll 2:13:16.000 --> 2:13:20.160 have my calls because I'm presumably bow hunting. Yea, yeah, 2:13:20.600 --> 2:13:24.040 i'd be fine. Oh yeah, I can locate out just 2:13:24.240 --> 2:13:26.840 fine with my with my eyeballs. And if it was 2:13:26.920 --> 2:13:32.520 November one, everybody would choose binoculars. November one, I'm switching, 2:13:33.920 --> 2:13:35.240 so it was a time of year when you'd go 2:13:35.240 --> 2:13:37.960 out with your nyals and not your calls. That's true. 2:13:38.000 --> 2:13:41.440 Calls salesman, you could be doing some reverse psychology right 2:13:41.480 --> 2:13:46.400 now like that and earlier saying that in August, late August, 2:13:46.720 --> 2:13:49.040 you might not use a call at all, because then 2:13:49.040 --> 2:13:51.160 people are gonna be like, I trust this person. Yeah, 2:13:51.240 --> 2:13:53.440 that's that's what I'm doing. I'm gonna buy his calls 2:13:53.520 --> 2:13:56.720 because he's not slimy and ye but I actually went 2:13:56.800 --> 2:14:00.760 up selling. We should back that up. He's pretty trustworthy. Fella. Oh, 2:14:00.840 --> 2:14:03.920 I think it's I think it's obvious he wouldn't be 2:14:04.000 --> 2:14:05.560 in here hanging out if you was slimmy. I think 2:14:05.600 --> 2:14:08.760 from this conversation, you just call vortex, you get a 2:14:08.960 --> 2:14:11.440 collap go on and you integrate a call into the 2:14:11.480 --> 2:14:14.800 buyos bagle to BUYO are you blow into the eyepiece 2:14:14.840 --> 2:14:20.000 in it and it doesn't fog up? Okay? What else? 2:14:20.040 --> 2:14:25.640 We got anything? Questions? Anybody else? Seth cal you anything 2:14:25.680 --> 2:14:31.040 you want to add or ask? M No, no, no, 2:14:31.200 --> 2:14:34.280 I mean I like like all this stuff. Do questions 2:14:34.360 --> 2:14:37.000 for you. Someone wants to know if you have any 2:14:37.120 --> 2:14:41.600 plans for a fawn and distress call for black tails. 2:14:42.440 --> 2:14:45.000 We've got one cal last time we talked about this 2:14:45.040 --> 2:14:46.600 on the podcast. I think I sold all of them 2:14:46.640 --> 2:14:48.800 we had. Um, no, we've We've got a phone in 2:14:48.880 --> 2:14:51.320 distress call already. That really I go out and play 2:14:51.360 --> 2:14:52.760 with the does and phones in my yard right now 2:14:52.800 --> 2:14:55.800 and it's it's the coolest thing ever. I have, uh, 2:14:56.560 --> 2:14:58.760 a bit of a hoarding problem with these calls because 2:14:58.760 --> 2:15:03.240 I do find a blow them out. Um they're awesome 2:15:03.280 --> 2:15:05.560 though they would the best. I love them. And we can, 2:15:05.640 --> 2:15:06.960 I mean that's the one thing to get that phone 2:15:07.000 --> 2:15:09.120 distress as perfect as a pretty light read, but we can. 2:15:09.360 --> 2:15:11.720 We also offer replacement reads to see in a tool 2:15:11.800 --> 2:15:15.640 just there. Yeah, what are you using those? Like? You 2:15:15.680 --> 2:15:18.760 know what hunting situation? I started messing around with him 2:15:18.760 --> 2:15:23.920 a lot um with mule deer and like during rifle season, 2:15:24.120 --> 2:15:28.760 and I started and then like, there there's no better 2:15:28.880 --> 2:15:32.280 tool for black bear hunting. I absolutely love them for 2:15:32.360 --> 2:15:35.200 black bear because it solves some issues I find that 2:15:35.880 --> 2:15:40.360 immature bears. It's very similar to like when you're calling 2:15:40.440 --> 2:15:43.400 out one of the scenarios that you guys described, but 2:15:44.080 --> 2:15:47.320 when you're kind of ringing a dinner bell with highly 2:15:47.400 --> 2:15:50.960 competitive predators, only the big ones are going to come 2:15:51.000 --> 2:15:54.840 into that phone call. And typically from what I've seen 2:15:55.040 --> 2:15:59.680 totally anecdotal, typically from what I've seen, their bores. One time, 2:15:59.720 --> 2:16:03.600 I was I had a fun distress call and I 2:16:03.720 --> 2:16:07.200 was in southeast Alaska and I was creeping up on 2:16:07.240 --> 2:16:10.000 a bear and I got where he was down in 2:16:10.080 --> 2:16:12.640 a channel. There's a big grass flat like an estuary, 2:16:12.920 --> 2:16:16.040 and he's down a channel. I couldn't see him. And 2:16:16.120 --> 2:16:19.200 I was like, oh, well, the call and he'll obviously 2:16:19.280 --> 2:16:22.960 come running up out of there. And I started blowing 2:16:23.000 --> 2:16:25.960 the call and out of the woods across the grass flat. 2:16:26.160 --> 2:16:33.520 Out of the woods comes uh blacktail dough piste runs 2:16:33.680 --> 2:16:37.080 right through where I thought the bear was, crosses the channel, 2:16:37.160 --> 2:16:40.680 pops up on my side right in my face, stomps 2:16:40.720 --> 2:16:43.600 all around, gets all mad, goes back the where she 2:16:43.720 --> 2:16:47.760 came from, and I'm like, oh, so something obviously happened. 2:16:47.800 --> 2:16:49.360 The bear's gone or whatever he would she would have 2:16:49.480 --> 2:16:51.480 come through there, And I walk over and look down 2:16:51.520 --> 2:16:54.080 in that bear is still sitting there eating grass. So 2:16:54.280 --> 2:16:57.200 not only was he not interested in the call, he 2:16:57.320 --> 2:16:59.840 was not interested in the piste off dough that basically 2:17:00.120 --> 2:17:05.560 ran him over and never broke stride. Yeah, it's like 2:17:05.879 --> 2:17:08.280 it's so hard to tell. And then the thing that 2:17:08.320 --> 2:17:10.160 makes the thing so funny, it's the same trip we 2:17:10.200 --> 2:17:11.720 had one trying to climb in the boat with us 2:17:13.720 --> 2:17:16.080 where we pulled up and I just like beach the boat. 2:17:16.680 --> 2:17:18.280 Didn't even get out of the boat and blew a 2:17:18.360 --> 2:17:21.320 call and you can't shoot from a boat there, blew 2:17:21.360 --> 2:17:23.640 a call and I'm up in the front of boat, 2:17:23.640 --> 2:17:25.240 my buddies in the back, so it's real deep, you know, 2:17:25.560 --> 2:17:28.440 And uh, I started we were like watching his bear, 2:17:28.480 --> 2:17:30.080 and we kind of lost track him. So he knows 2:17:30.120 --> 2:17:31.879 the boat up into the gravel and I'm just standing 2:17:31.920 --> 2:17:33.560 on the front seat and I started calling and this 2:17:33.680 --> 2:17:35.760 bear is like I'm gonna get it, Like he looked 2:17:35.760 --> 2:17:37.360 like he's gonna get in the boat, and I'm telling 2:17:37.440 --> 2:17:40.560 my buddy get out of the boat and shoot. But 2:17:40.640 --> 2:17:44.080 it's real deep where we pulled up. Remember, Like, who 2:17:44.120 --> 2:17:45.760 care he didn't want to jump out because he'd got 2:17:45.840 --> 2:17:48.000 so wet if he jumped out of the boat. But 2:17:48.000 --> 2:17:50.240 it's like the different moods they're in and you know 2:17:50.280 --> 2:17:52.040 what I mean, like what they got going on, it's 2:17:52.120 --> 2:17:55.000 so funny, like the different attitude because that fun and 2:17:55.080 --> 2:17:58.880 distress called to like I've hit it at times and 2:17:59.120 --> 2:18:04.040 seen reform of life run out of the canyon as 2:18:04.160 --> 2:18:08.840 fast as possible. Yeah, they're killing stuff in here, exactly, 2:18:08.959 --> 2:18:14.080 everybody out. It's like that scene in uh was that 2:18:14.280 --> 2:18:17.320 Ballad of Buster scribed the Ballad of Buster scrob Yeah, 2:18:17.400 --> 2:18:20.080 when the when the minor when Tom Waits rolls into 2:18:20.120 --> 2:18:26.920 the base. Yeah, that's great. Alright, Any closers, what's new? 2:18:27.040 --> 2:18:30.400 What's anything on the horizon. We're gonna we're gonna work 2:18:30.440 --> 2:18:32.520 on the Deer coal line, Predator coal line. We've got 2:18:32.640 --> 2:18:35.039 a few new things, um on the Olt coal line. 2:18:35.240 --> 2:18:37.600 But um, you know, just just going down that road 2:18:37.600 --> 2:18:39.039 trying to kind of fill in the rest. And we've 2:18:39.080 --> 2:18:41.320 been been pretty busy on the turkey on the olt 2:18:41.360 --> 2:18:43.200 call side, and then just trying to kind of wrap 2:18:43.320 --> 2:18:45.680 up the whole line from start to finish. So we're 2:18:45.720 --> 2:18:47.920 just you're gonna put some pressure on test a bunch 2:18:47.920 --> 2:18:50.720 of new products as falling, then hopefully have some releases 2:18:50.800 --> 2:18:53.560 next year. You know what calls you think of you 2:18:53.920 --> 2:18:56.080 in our call, I think you ought to do. I 2:18:56.120 --> 2:19:00.080 think you should devote some time to uh make and 2:19:00.760 --> 2:19:07.360 blue grouse calls who no, no, no, no, not not 2:19:07.480 --> 2:19:10.480 a rough grouse drumming, but blue grouse for spring blue 2:19:10.520 --> 2:19:17.400 grouse hunting in Alaska, and you can make the female call. M. 2:19:18.720 --> 2:19:21.560 This is the whole thing. Listen, this is like what 2:19:21.680 --> 2:19:25.160 I'm telling you right now. What I'm telling you right now. 2:19:25.200 --> 2:19:27.200 It would be like if let's let's imagine that it's 2:19:28.840 --> 2:19:30.120 and I said, you know what someone ought to do 2:19:30.280 --> 2:19:33.320 is find a way to make a elk bugle noise. 2:19:34.120 --> 2:19:35.760 I'm giving you that right now. All right, all right, 2:19:35.800 --> 2:19:38.000 we're gonna I'm giving you that right now. I'm telling 2:19:38.040 --> 2:19:41.000 you something that's gonna like paying your time capsule will 2:19:41.040 --> 2:19:44.119 open it in thirty years and you'll be like, man, 2:19:44.280 --> 2:19:45.640 I can't believe I didn't do it. Because it turned 2:19:45.640 --> 2:19:47.480 into this huge thing and I had it laying right 2:19:47.520 --> 2:19:48.920 and I had it later right in my lap. Don't 2:19:48.959 --> 2:19:52.720 ignore that. Seek a deer market in Maryland either, Yeah, 2:19:54.320 --> 2:19:56.400 so I that might be something because those guys all 2:19:56.480 --> 2:20:00.960 run around with your kidding. They run around with European 2:20:01.040 --> 2:20:04.959 made calls. You can't have that, God bless America. Yeah, 2:20:05.080 --> 2:20:12.800 don rome fells the old Europe We've we've been, so 2:20:12.879 --> 2:20:20.720 you guys are all over this. No that look that 2:20:20.879 --> 2:20:24.720 up YouTube sounds just like it. No, because we're pros man. 2:20:26.080 --> 2:20:29.560 We've heard him. You've heard him many many many times. 2:20:29.600 --> 2:20:32.640 And one thing he doesn't something like that way too elaborate. 2:20:33.760 --> 2:20:37.400 In Maryland they go three packs, not nearly that long. 2:20:38.000 --> 2:20:40.280 So I got a guy hunting in New Zealand. We know, 2:20:40.560 --> 2:20:44.400 oh that might be holding his sounds just like that. No, 2:20:44.720 --> 2:20:48.400 they're like three little shorts toilet water spins the opposite 2:20:48.440 --> 2:20:56.680 way down there too. All right, So, um, you're not 2:20:56.800 --> 2:20:58.520 you're you're You're probably gonna get get into the blue 2:20:58.760 --> 2:21:02.440 the blue grouse, not blue, asked the blue grouse market. Well, 2:21:03.080 --> 2:21:06.080 it's ducks like ducks. We have duck calls. I'm not 2:21:06.760 --> 2:21:09.160 a die hard duck guy. Um, so I reached out 2:21:09.200 --> 2:21:12.720 to some guys in Oregon, Eric Strand. So, Eric Strands 2:21:12.800 --> 2:21:15.320 kind of in charge of our duck call um waterfowl 2:21:15.520 --> 2:21:18.000 goose call line. So I've kind of like to stay 2:21:18.000 --> 2:21:19.960 in your lane. Pay. I don't want to try to 2:21:20.040 --> 2:21:22.080 pretend like I know what I'm doing on that side. Um, 2:21:22.720 --> 2:21:24.280 I'll go shoot them if they call him in for me, 2:21:24.360 --> 2:21:27.039 but I don't do that. Um, but we are, we're 2:21:27.080 --> 2:21:30.440 filling in outside so cool, Eric sans, So you need 2:21:30.520 --> 2:21:32.039 to be you want to be like a full one 2:21:32.120 --> 2:21:33.920 stop shop. Yeah, I just want to fill all the 2:21:34.000 --> 2:21:35.720 lines in and get the right people. Like I said, 2:21:35.720 --> 2:21:38.280 I'm a turkey elk, a little bit of predator guy. 2:21:38.360 --> 2:21:40.600 You know, I'm comfortable in that sector. But um, in 2:21:40.760 --> 2:21:42.000 order to bring some of these other things, and I'm 2:21:42.000 --> 2:21:44.000 just gonna go find the best people that I can. 2:21:45.120 --> 2:21:47.800 So he's really good, really accomplished waterfowl caller, and and 2:21:48.080 --> 2:21:50.800 knows how to build him and tunes him. He tunes 2:21:50.840 --> 2:21:55.200 all of our waterfowl calls right now. So Dirt got 2:21:55.280 --> 2:21:59.160 the concluders. You know what a concluder is? Final thoughts? Oh, 2:21:59.280 --> 2:22:02.880 that's exactly what it. Um. I think people give up 2:22:02.920 --> 2:22:05.720 on trying to learn how to call it up too quick. Um, 2:22:06.240 --> 2:22:10.480 they might their buddy says, hey, go get X call 2:22:10.640 --> 2:22:13.200 and try it. It works awesome, and they try it, 2:22:13.720 --> 2:22:16.680 they suck. They can't do it, so they're like, yeah, 2:22:16.840 --> 2:22:18.560 it ain't for me. You hear this a lot. You 2:22:18.640 --> 2:22:21.560 go to trade shows, like I can't do these calls, 2:22:21.600 --> 2:22:24.440 and you hand one to a guy and kind of 2:22:24.480 --> 2:22:26.160 coach them a little bit, and pretty soon they're making 2:22:26.200 --> 2:22:28.160 noises and like, wow, I think I might be able 2:22:28.160 --> 2:22:31.480 to do this after all. So um, people just give 2:22:31.560 --> 2:22:34.640 up pretty quick. I'm calling elkin. I mean, the best 2:22:34.680 --> 2:22:36.520 part about calling out because it's super fun. I mean, 2:22:36.879 --> 2:22:39.160 you know, it's a it's a it's a means to 2:22:39.240 --> 2:22:41.160 an end. I mean, you're trying to take a take 2:22:41.200 --> 2:22:44.080 a beautiful elk home with you and have some delicious food. 2:22:44.200 --> 2:22:46.640 But um, it's sure it's fun too. It's it's like 2:22:47.240 --> 2:22:49.640 the best time you can have. There might not be 2:22:49.959 --> 2:22:56.360 any more fun to be had in the hunting universe. Absolutely, 2:22:56.879 --> 2:22:58.720 you kind of stole my concluer. I'm gonna keep it. 2:22:58.800 --> 2:23:01.400 I'm gonna reuse it. Well, how long you've been practicing 2:23:02.360 --> 2:23:04.560 I've been doing this thirty years I've been calling out 2:23:04.600 --> 2:23:07.840 for thirty years, Um, and when did you stop improving? 2:23:08.920 --> 2:23:11.200 I get better every year. I pick up little things 2:23:11.280 --> 2:23:13.920 that like, Wow, that Elk did this, and like I 2:23:14.000 --> 2:23:15.880 try to do it. You know, I'm big on, you know, 2:23:16.000 --> 2:23:18.920 trying to mimic the alphabet because I want to sound 2:23:18.959 --> 2:23:20.440 like an ELK. I don't want to set you sound 2:23:20.480 --> 2:23:22.200 like me. So I'll try to pick up little things 2:23:22.280 --> 2:23:25.640 for Milk all the time. Um. I feel like we 2:23:25.760 --> 2:23:28.080 kind of make the same old rookie mistakes every year, 2:23:28.280 --> 2:23:32.000 just like everybody. But but but you you'll learn a 2:23:32.080 --> 2:23:35.600 lot every year. So um yeah, but I think, you know, 2:23:35.680 --> 2:23:37.920 people just give up on it too quick. Like, you know, 2:23:38.000 --> 2:23:40.320 put some effort into it. It doesn't take an hour 2:23:40.440 --> 2:23:43.720 a day of practicing. If you practice five minutes a day, 2:23:45.200 --> 2:23:47.720 three times a week, you're starting. You'll start building that 2:23:47.800 --> 2:23:49.520 muscle memory of what to do with that call. When 2:23:49.520 --> 2:23:53.439 you get in your mouth and you start in January, 2:23:54.080 --> 2:23:56.200 by September, you're gonna be able to make some pretty 2:23:56.240 --> 2:23:58.560 darn good Elk noises. Especially with what the world we 2:23:58.680 --> 2:24:01.160 live in. I mean, we have YouTube and the Internet 2:24:01.320 --> 2:24:03.959 and there's all this information on how to use calls. 2:24:04.520 --> 2:24:05.960 We didn't have that one I as a kid. I mean, 2:24:06.000 --> 2:24:08.920 I had Larry D. Jones videos to watch and and 2:24:09.240 --> 2:24:11.280 try my best to make it and elp noise. When 2:24:11.280 --> 2:24:13.000 I first started all hunting, I hadn't even heard a 2:24:13.040 --> 2:24:19.240 really elk bugle before before September first, you know, And 2:24:19.879 --> 2:24:21.440 that was the first time I heard an elk bugle. 2:24:21.840 --> 2:24:24.200 And I'm like, Okay, I getta figure that I sound different, 2:24:24.240 --> 2:24:26.160 but I'm gonna try to figure it out. By the 2:24:26.280 --> 2:24:28.000 end of that season, I sounded pretty good. You know, 2:24:28.280 --> 2:24:31.680 all things considered, caught on pretty good. But people just 2:24:31.800 --> 2:24:35.840 need to to to practice, not give up, and have 2:24:35.959 --> 2:24:38.800 faith in their calls. What do you got, seth is 2:24:38.840 --> 2:24:42.400 about trip problem beavers? Yeah exactly. Um, send us your 2:24:42.440 --> 2:24:48.000 problem beaver spots, send us an email. You know, we politest. 2:24:48.320 --> 2:24:51.039 We'll bring you some cook beaver meat. No road messing, 2:24:51.280 --> 2:24:56.080 no road messing. Yeah, we're the real deal, you know, fostering. 2:24:56.160 --> 2:24:59.280 We'll bring little kids out, cute little kids out, introducing 2:24:59.400 --> 2:25:02.200 kids to the wa. He's gotta come up with a 2:25:02.360 --> 2:25:11.040 name for your operation, oh man, flip flop flash or yeah, 2:25:11.680 --> 2:25:15.960 do you any other concluder stuff? Um, I'm pretty stowed 2:25:15.959 --> 2:25:17.800 for elk season. Now after all that just got you 2:25:17.879 --> 2:25:23.760 fired up? Oh yeah, yeah, I do. Um yeah. Here 2:25:23.800 --> 2:25:30.720 in that first bugle from from Jason, that's it, Like 2:25:30.840 --> 2:25:34.199 I like the elk noises make me start thinking about 2:25:34.240 --> 2:25:36.560 what the hell am I doing this office? You just 2:25:36.600 --> 2:25:40.960 started getting ready. I would recommend all the people that 2:25:41.000 --> 2:25:43.240 are all fired up right now and they're going to 2:25:43.640 --> 2:25:47.240 uh Phelps's website to buy themselves a gray and a 2:25:47.480 --> 2:25:52.680 black am they should also get one of Phelps's external 2:25:53.000 --> 2:25:56.760 read single read cal calls. You guys call it the 2:25:58.200 --> 2:26:02.480 the easy astress. Can you get the different with or 2:26:02.560 --> 2:26:05.119 is that you got a call that's kind of special order? 2:26:05.160 --> 2:26:09.600 But we're pretty we've got great customer service here. Just 2:26:09.720 --> 2:26:11.760 let us know, I mean, put it in the comments. 2:26:11.800 --> 2:26:13.320 We do make a bunch of stuff, but I just 2:26:13.360 --> 2:26:15.600 didn't want to skew ourselves. If you want something different, 2:26:15.640 --> 2:26:17.560 one of deeper sounding calcoul let us know and we'll 2:26:17.600 --> 2:26:20.280 make it happen. Yeah, but that's it to me, that's 2:26:20.280 --> 2:26:22.720 a pretty easy call to I think for beginners and 2:26:22.840 --> 2:26:25.280 some people that if you're just really struggling with the 2:26:25.360 --> 2:26:28.240 gag thing and you're just you know, diagragms aren't going 2:26:28.360 --> 2:26:32.080 for it. Man, those external reads I don't leave home 2:26:32.160 --> 2:26:35.760 with that. Yeah, they're super effective. My concluders is a 2:26:35.840 --> 2:26:41.120 note on calling in general, where it's easy to view 2:26:41.600 --> 2:26:43.280 when you start out hunting or you start out trying 2:26:43.280 --> 2:26:45.080 to hunt something new, it's easy to view it as 2:26:45.160 --> 2:26:49.280 it's all about the end. You know. Um, it's just 2:26:49.360 --> 2:26:50.640 like what I'll do whatever I need to do to 2:26:50.680 --> 2:26:55.240 try to get one. And you think about when we 2:26:55.360 --> 2:26:57.400 first started hunting turkeys. You know, we were aware that 2:26:57.480 --> 2:26:59.600 calling turkeys was the thing, but we just bushwhag them. 2:26:59.680 --> 2:27:02.040 We get we find one goblin, we glass one up 2:27:02.120 --> 2:27:04.720 and belly crawling on wait from to make a mistake 2:27:05.840 --> 2:27:08.040 and um, and then later when you realize like like 2:27:08.160 --> 2:27:12.080 to call something. Ah, man, it's just different. It's so 2:27:12.600 --> 2:27:14.680 much more fun. And when you learn how to do, 2:27:14.720 --> 2:27:19.000 it's effective. And it's like there's certain scenarios. You know, 2:27:19.240 --> 2:27:23.000 if you lay your decoys out and you're calling ducks 2:27:23.080 --> 2:27:25.880 and you can you keep getting like birds coming in 2:27:25.959 --> 2:27:28.160 with cupped wings and the birds coming with cuped wings, 2:27:29.080 --> 2:27:30.440 and you wind up at the end of the day whatever, 2:27:30.480 --> 2:27:31.840 you got four of them, and you could have got 2:27:31.879 --> 2:27:35.720 four jump shooting. It's just different. It's so much more fulfilling. 2:27:35.840 --> 2:27:39.040 It's like you're just seeing It's like you're seeing something 2:27:39.160 --> 2:27:42.000 happen and the and oftentimes these things wind up helping 2:27:42.040 --> 2:27:44.400 you have more end result too, even though it takes 2:27:44.480 --> 2:27:48.720 longer to get there. I'm very happy that, uh, to 2:27:48.879 --> 2:27:53.680 have UM, very happy to have like figured that out 2:27:53.800 --> 2:27:56.760 with turkeys, figure that out with ducks. We used to 2:27:56.840 --> 2:27:59.000 belly crawl ducks when we were kids with belly crawl 2:27:59.120 --> 2:28:01.360 ducks and jump shoot us. But then later like taking 2:28:01.360 --> 2:28:02.920 the time to learn how to call him. It my god, 2:28:03.040 --> 2:28:05.720 just so much more. It's so much more rewarding and 2:28:05.800 --> 2:28:11.240 why and as far as exhilaration, UM, in the hunting world, 2:28:11.440 --> 2:28:15.760 even beyond the hunt world, to have a you know, 2:28:16.080 --> 2:28:20.400 some six seven pound bowl screaming in your face is 2:28:20.560 --> 2:28:25.480 just like it is unnerving in the best possible way. 2:28:26.440 --> 2:28:30.120 And you fooled that wild animal to come into your calls, 2:28:30.240 --> 2:28:32.320 that's that's the best. If I don't take him home 2:28:32.400 --> 2:28:35.240 with me, that's okay. But I fooled that sucker into 2:28:35.320 --> 2:28:38.560 coming in and I saw him. It's almost like counting 2:28:38.600 --> 2:28:40.720 coup on him, you know, And it's almost it's almost 2:28:40.800 --> 2:28:43.600 like that, you know, it tests your metal man, like 2:28:43.680 --> 2:28:45.640 I don't care. You might think you have nerves and steel, 2:28:45.720 --> 2:28:49.360 you know, but uh, when that's going on, it's so 2:28:49.640 --> 2:28:52.840 hard to keep your head together. I'm sure it gets less, 2:28:52.920 --> 2:28:55.080 but it's just like you're just like, wow, this thing 2:28:55.240 --> 2:28:59.600 is it's just like this deafening sound from this huge 2:29:01.400 --> 2:29:05.240 slobbering you know what I mean, snapping trees and half 2:29:05.320 --> 2:29:07.880 with his antlers, and it's just it's really something to see. 2:29:08.440 --> 2:29:12.760 It's really something to see. Anything else. Oh, plug the 2:29:12.800 --> 2:29:15.120 newsletter on it. Last, but not least, you should go 2:29:15.280 --> 2:29:18.279 to the Mediator website and sign up for the newsletter. 2:29:19.040 --> 2:29:21.600 Get it once a week. Keep up on everything we've 2:29:21.600 --> 2:29:24.359 got going on here at meat Eater. Yeah, go to www. 2:29:24.560 --> 2:29:28.920 Dot the meat eater dot com. Um, go on and 2:29:28.959 --> 2:29:31.160 give us a five star review click the right most star. 2:29:32.120 --> 2:29:35.040 But if you're listening there on through iTunes or Apple 2:29:35.720 --> 2:29:39.000 and you find us on social uh like Instagram, A 2:29:39.000 --> 2:29:44.920 whole bunch at Stephen Ronella the Eagle is at Janice Poodles, 2:29:45.600 --> 2:29:50.000 Janice underscore. That's right, Janice uh Cal is at O 2:29:50.240 --> 2:29:53.880 cal four oh six right O l c A L 2:29:53.959 --> 2:29:58.440 four oh six seth at signs on the score West. 2:29:59.600 --> 2:30:05.080 That's true. I keep thinking he's a sign builder. I 2:30:05.520 --> 2:30:09.080 know he's talking about beaver sign signs, underscore what he's 2:30:09.120 --> 2:30:11.600 looking for. Sign Oh, I like that. I like that. 2:30:12.440 --> 2:30:14.480 You guys do you guys are on the Instagram? Yeah yeah, 2:30:14.520 --> 2:30:18.240 we were pretty active, lots of inspiring bull bull out photos. 2:30:18.400 --> 2:30:21.520 Yeah yeah. The battle between our our calls is alive 2:30:21.560 --> 2:30:24.480 and well. But we're at Phelps game calls, Phelps game calls, 2:30:25.080 --> 2:30:32.160 and I'm at the Bugler one word yea all again 2:30:32.280 --> 2:30:37.440 most portantly uh newsletter www dot the me eater dot 2:30:37.480 --> 2:30:42.119 com and again felps game calls. Good dudes, the Bugle 2:30:42.200 --> 2:30:46.160 too much, but they're good. But they're good dudes. Thanks 2:30:46.160 --> 2:31:01.519 for having us. It's awesome. Se