1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: Today we are going to talk about Ruth Fulton Benedict, 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 2: who was one of the first women to become really 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: prominent in the field of anthropology. She had a big 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: impact on that field, but I think in terms of 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: like general name recognition outside of the world of anthropology today, 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 2: she's probably overshadowed by some of her students, including Zoraineilhurston 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: and Margaret Meade. We will be talking a bit about 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: Margaret Meade in this episode two because her life was 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: deeply connected to Benedicts, both personally and professionally. And while 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: both of these women were really influential, they also faced 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: a lot of criticism, both in their lifetimes and afterward. 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: Some of this is because they were women working in 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: a field that was at the time heavily dominated by men, 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: and some of their ideas went against the trends and 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: the standards of the day. But other criticisms were about 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 2: like the actual content of their work. 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: Some of those are more. 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: Well founded, like you could have a whole podcast series 23 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: picking it apart point by point. There are definitely plenty 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: of academic texts that are full of very detailed criticisms 25 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 2: of both of them. That is not what this episode 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: is for. What we are doing here is taking a 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 2: broader look at Ruth Benedict's life and influence. 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: Ruth Fulton was born on June fifth, eighteen eighty seven. 29 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: Margaret Meade wrote a biography of her that named her 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: birthplace as Shenango Valley in the northern part of New York, 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: but other sources say that she was born in New 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: York City. Ruth's maternal grandparents lived in Norwich, New York, 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: in Shenango County, and that is where she lived for 34 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: part of her childhood, so if she was really born 35 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: in New York City, that may be the source of 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: that discrepancy. 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: Ruth's mother, Bertise Joanna Shaddock Fulton, was a school teacher 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: who had graduated from Bassar and her father, Frederick, was 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: a surgeon, but Frederick died in March of eighteen eighty 40 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 2: nine at the age of only thirty one, a few 41 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: months before Ruth turned two. Ruth's little sister, Marjorie, was 42 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 2: only three months old Frederick's cause of death was some 43 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 2: kind of infection that he probably contracted on the job. 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: He had apparently gone to Trinidad with the hope of 45 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 2: recovering there, and then died about ten days after getting 46 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: back home. 47 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: This, of course, would have been hard for any family, 48 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: and Ruth remembered her mother as grief stricken and always 49 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: worried about money, which is understandable considering her husband's death 50 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: at such a young age and because they had financial 51 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: trouble without his income. But this whole thing seems to 52 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: have been particularly hard on Bertise, truly devastated by her 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: husband's death, and as his anniversary approached every March, it 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: was like she relived it and then the whole family 55 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: was traumatized all over again. 56 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: So Ruth remembered her childhood as lonely and sad a 57 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: lot of the time. She also contracted measles when she 58 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: was a baby or a toddler, a little unclear on 59 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 2: the exact age, but afterwards she was hard of hearing. 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: She and other people described her as deaf or partially deaf, 61 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: or in Mead's words quote just deaf enough to miss 62 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: a great deal of what was being said. Before others 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: recognized it, but nobody realized what was going on with 64 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: her hearing until Ruth started school. That meant that, in 65 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: addition to growing up in a home that was dominated 66 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: by grief and anxiety, Ruth was really isolated. She often 67 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: couldn't understand what people were saying to her, especially if 68 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: it was noisy or if there were multiple people talking 69 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: at once, and until someone noticed her hearing loss, she 70 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: also didn't understand why so much of what was happening 71 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: around her was so confusing. So the first mass produced 72 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: hearing aids didn't hit the market until Benedict was in 73 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 2: her twenties, and once they became available, she seems to 74 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: have preferred not to use them. So in Ruth's childhood 75 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: and teen years, she became withdrawn and very shy. She 76 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: thought her sister, who was prettier and happier, was their 77 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: mother's favorite. Ruth didn't really like to be touched, and 78 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: except for an imaginary friend, she mostly played alone. But 79 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: she loved to read and to write, and she came 80 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: to enjoy her solitude. She later wrote of this quote, 81 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: happiness was in a world I lived in all by myself, 82 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 2: and for precious moments she also said that she learned 83 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: that quote I could always without fail have myself for company, 84 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 2: and that if I didn't talk to anybody about the 85 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: things that mattered to me, no one could have take 86 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 2: them away. 87 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: When she was young, Ruth also experienced some kind of 88 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: recurring illness that she described as bilious attacks. About every 89 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: six weeks, she would have a bout of intense vomiting, 90 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: and this continued for years until she started menstruating, and 91 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: at that point she started experiencing period pain on about 92 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: the same cycle. This ran alongside cycles of depression and anger, 93 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 1: and what she described as rages or tantrums as an adult. 94 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: She said these tantrums ended after her grandmother made her 95 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: kneel on the floor by a lit candle and pray 96 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: to God that she would never lose her temper again. 97 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: Ruth and her sister Marjorie were cared for largely by 98 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 2: their grandmother and an aunt, while their mother tried to 99 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: earn enough money to support them. Bertie took teaching jobs 100 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: in a couple of different cities before being hired as 101 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: a librarian in Buffalo, New York in eighteen ninety nine, 102 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: when Ruth was about twelve. 103 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: After moving to Buffalo, Ruth and Marjorie got scholarships to 104 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: Saint Margaret's Episcopal Academy for Girls, which they attended from 105 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred to nineteen oh five. Then the two sisters 106 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: went on to Vasser together and they graduated in nineteen 107 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: oh nine. Ri's degree was in literature. She graduated Phi 108 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: Beta Kappa and won awards for her poetry and essays. 109 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: After graduation, the sister spent a year in Europe with 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: a couple of friends, and that was paid for by 111 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: their friends' families. 112 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: Soon after returning from Europe, Marjorie married Robert Freeman. Marjorie, Robert, 113 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 2: and bertis All moved to Pasadena, California. Ruth stayed behind 114 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: in Buffalo for about a year before rejoining her mother 115 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: and sister. She spent some time in California teaching at girls' 116 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: schools before meeting biochemist Stanley Benedict on a trip back 117 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: to New York. They got married on June eighteenth, nineteen fourteen. 118 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: It seems like Ruth was happy for the first year 119 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: or so of their marriage. In a journal that December, 120 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: she wrote, quote, five months ago, with all my consciousness 121 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: of the power of loving that was the greatest part 122 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 2: of me. With all the hunger and thrust of my love, 123 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: I had no notion of its strength and depth and 124 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: power of healing. No wonder the days seemed dreary and 125 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: empty enough without this satisfying comradeship, this ardent delight, this 126 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: transforming love. Now that I have it, it is what 127 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: gives meaning to all of life. But Ruth's journals from 128 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: their courtship and their early marriage also contain a number 129 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: of references to her and Stanley hurting one another, without 130 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: really going into much detail. She also wanted to have 131 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: a baby, but they weren't able to. Then in nineteen seventeen, 132 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: Stanley was injured in a lab accident. He inhaled toxic 133 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: gas that he was researching as a potential wartime weapon. 134 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: This worsened some issues that he was already having with 135 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: high blood pressure and insomnia. He and Ruth wound up 136 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: at odds over where and how to live. She preferred 137 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: the city. She wanted to be in Greenwich Village, and 138 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: that was too noisy for him. He wanted to live 139 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: out in the suburbs and spend lots of time at 140 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: his summer cabin in New Hampshire. And that was just 141 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: too isolated for her. She finally wound up renting a 142 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: room in Greenwich Village and staying there during the week 143 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: and then going back to Stanley on the weekends, which 144 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: was really unconventional. 145 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: I feel like that would even be considered unconventional now. 146 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know a number of people who for like 147 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 2: work reasons, for the most part, have had residences in 148 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: two different cities, but like, this was unheard of. Really. 149 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: When she was. 150 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: Living a few years into the marriage, Ruth was feeling 151 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: bored and unfulfilled. She had been raised in a devoutly 152 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: Baptist family, but she had left the church. A lot 153 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: of her classmates at Vassar had been active in various 154 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: causes like women's suffrage, but none of those causes had 155 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: really captured her attention. She tried to folks on writing poetry, 156 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: publishing under the name Anne Singleton, and took on other 157 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: writing projects. Eventually, she started on a book that she 158 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: called Adventures in Womanhood, planning to include biographies of Mary 159 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: Wollston Craft, Margaret Fuller, and Olive Schreiner. She finished a 160 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: draft on Mary Wollston Craft, but when she couldn't find 161 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: a publisher who was interested, she put the project aside. 162 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 2: In nineteen nineteen, still looking for something to keep her 163 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: mind occupied, Ruth Benedict enrolled in a class at the 164 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: New School for Social Research in New York City, which 165 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 2: had been founded that same year. The new School was 166 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 2: established by professors who had resigned from Columbia University after 167 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: being censured for their opposition to the US involvement in 168 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 2: the war. It was open to students regardless of sex, 169 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: and was specifically focused on higher education for adults, especially 170 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: on subjects that were related to social issues in political science. 171 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: Benedict's first class at the New School was Sex in Ethnology, 172 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: taught by anthropologist and folklorist Elsie Clues Parsons, who became 173 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: one of Benedict's mentors. Another mentor was anthropologist and sociologist 174 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: Alexander Goldenweisser, who had been born in Ukraine and immigrated 175 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: to the US in nineteen hundred. 176 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: Both of them had worked and studied with Franz Boas, 177 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: and they encouraged Benedict to pursue a graduate degree at 178 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 2: Columbia University, where Boas was teaching. We will get into 179 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: this some more after a sponsor break before we talk 180 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: about Ruth Benedict's work with Franz boas, we should talk 181 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 2: a little bit about the development of anthropology as a 182 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: field and the state of that field when she started 183 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 2: studying it. So anthropology as a scientific and academic discipline 184 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: was established primarily by Western European men. Interest in studying 185 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 2: the cultures and peoples of the world really flourished alongside 186 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: global exploration and colonization by European powers, and a lot 187 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 2: of the people carrying out that research did so from 188 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 2: the perspective that Western European culture was the pinnacle of 189 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 2: human achievement. So from the beginning, a lot of this 190 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 2: research was rooted in inherently racist ideas. It imagined humanity in. 191 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: A hierarchy, with white people at the top and all 192 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: other races lowered down. Cultures that had not had a 193 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: lot of contact with Europeans were framed as primitive, with 194 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: these allegedly primitive people supposedly in their natural state, unaffected 195 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: by things like industrialization. Of course, not every single individual 196 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: person working in anthropology was espousing these kinds of ideas, 197 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: but by the late nineteenth century, a lot of the 198 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: writing coming out of the field was really Eurocentric and 199 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: either implicitly or explicitly to other peoples and cultures as 200 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: less sophisticated, less developed, and generally inferior. 201 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: One anthropologist who really pushed back on a lot of 202 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: this was Franz Boas. He was born into a Jewish 203 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: family in Germany in eighteen fifty eight and immigrated to 204 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: the United States in eighteen eighty six. He started teaching 205 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: at Columbia University ten years later, and he was enormously 206 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: influential as both an anthropologist and a teacher. He argued 207 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: that race and culture were not biologically determined, and that 208 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: no one race or culture was superior to the others, 209 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: either genetically or otherwise. He also argued that culture wasn't 210 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:47,599 Speaker 2: biologically determined at all, that instead, cultures arose from a 211 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: collection of local, historical, and interpersonal influences. Some of Boas's 212 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 2: ideas are summed up as cultural relativism. That's the idea 213 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: that a culture's beliefs, values, and practices should be studied 214 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 2: and understood from the point of view of the culture itself, 215 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: not by making value judgments from outside that culture or 216 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: comparing it to some kind of supposedly universal standard. In 217 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: that case, universal usually really meant Western European. So that's 218 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: not to suggest that Boas's work was perfect or that 219 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: there's nothing to criticize about it. For example, as we 220 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: mentioned in our episode on physical anthropologist W. Montague Cob, 221 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: Boas carried out excavations of indigenous burial sites that he 222 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: later admitted felt basically like grave robbing. He also represented 223 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: a turning point in the field, not an ending point. So, 224 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: for example, the term primitive and the idea that so 225 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 2: called primitive cultures were in a more natural or authentic 226 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: state that still showed up in his work in the 227 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: work of some of his students. And while a lot 228 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 2: of the people that Boas trained tried to be anti 229 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 2: racist in their work, that did not necessarily extend to 230 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: their treatment of other traits like gender or sexuality. Also, 231 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: just in general, it's virtually impossible for a person to 232 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: totally shed every single one of their preconceptions in all 233 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: of their cultural baggage when studying another culture. 234 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: So Boas and his students were still seeing and studying 235 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: and interpreting the world through their own lenses, even if 236 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: they really were making an effort not to. But he 237 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: actively intentionally and prolifically tried to dismantle a lot of 238 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: the racist ideas that were taken for granted within the field, 239 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: and he trained a generation of other anthropologists to do 240 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: the same. One of those anthropologists was Ruth Benedict. She 241 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: started her graduate studies at Columbia in nineteen twenty one 242 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: when she was thirty four. Boas became a mentor and 243 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: a father figure. She and some of the other students 244 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: called him Papa Frands. She admired and respected his work, 245 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: but learning from him could also be challenging for her. 246 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: In addition to his having a pronounced German accent, he 247 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: was also known for mumbling when he talked. I saw 248 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: him described as a notorious mumbler, which made it hard 249 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: for somebody with hearing loss to undersod. Oh my gosh, 250 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine. 251 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: Uh. 252 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: But Benedict really impressed him, so much so that he 253 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: convinced Columbia to accept her classes from the New School 254 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: as part of her pH d work, allowing her to 255 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: complete her degree in nineteen twenty three after only two years. 256 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: Her dissertation was the concept of the Guardian Spirit in 257 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: North America, and it was drawn from existing research on 258 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: the idea of the guardian spirit in indigenous cultures. She 259 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: published it under the name Ruth Fulton Benedict, including her 260 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: maiden name this way that was also unconventional. 261 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: Her dissertation caught the attention of one of Boas's former students, 262 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: Edward Sapiir. Sapiram Benedict bonded over anne anthropology and their 263 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: shared love of poetry. They wrote poems to each other, 264 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: and they wrote letters from about nineteen twenty three to 265 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty five. Sometimes this was multiple letters every week. 266 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: While studying under Franz Boas, Benedict also worked as his 267 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: teaching assistant at Barnard College. Barnard had been founded in 268 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty nine and was the first college in New 269 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: York City to offer degrees to women. It was and 270 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: is affiliated with Columbia University, which did not admit women 271 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: as undergraduates until the fall of nineteen eighty three. 272 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: It's not a typo. Barnard is where Benedict met Margaret Mead, 273 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: who at the time was a senior in college, and 274 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: at first Mead was not impressed with Benedict at all. 275 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: Ruth Benedict wore the same dress every day, and it 276 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,479 Speaker 2: was addressed that Mead did not think was very flattering. 277 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: This was apparently because men wore the same suit to 278 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: teach in every day, and Benedict thought that women should 279 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: be able to follow the same standard. Benedict also had 280 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: a really hard time speaking in front of the students, 281 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 2: even though she had taught at girls' schools years before. 282 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 2: She really struggled with her shyness and her hearing loss. 283 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: It took her years to really be comfortable with public speaking. 284 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 2: But then Benedict led the students on one of their 285 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 2: regular visits to the American Museum of Natural History and 286 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: Mead asked her for more information about one of the 287 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: exhibits they were looking at. Benedict was clearly flustered, but 288 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: said she would bring something to their next class, and 289 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: she brought a copy of one of her own published papers, 290 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 2: and Mead was so impressed that she gave Benedict another 291 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: chance as an instructor. Mead eventually found Benedict to be knowledgeable, creative, 292 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: and compassionate toward her students, and she started recommending the 293 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: course to other students at Barnard. Benedict and Meade became 294 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: friends and colleagues, with Benedict encouraging Meade to pursue an 295 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 2: advanced to in anthropology, including giving her three hundred dollars 296 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 2: of her own money, which she described as a no 297 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: strings attached fellowship. Meade started graduate study at Columbia in 298 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty three, and that same year she got married 299 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: to anthropologist Luther Cressman, and toward the end of nineteen 300 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 2: twenty four, Benedict and Meade started having an affair. This 301 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: was obviously something they kept secret, both of them were 302 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: married to other people. As anthropologists, they both wrote about 303 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: cultures that viewed gender and sexuality much different than in 304 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: much of the United States, but in their own culture 305 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: this was something that could have ruined their reputations and 306 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: their careers. There was also the fact that Benedict was 307 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: more than a decade older than Meade and had been 308 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 2: her teacher. I'm actually a little fuzzy on whether Benedict 309 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 2: was still Mead's teacher at this point. There was already 310 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 2: a very well established trope of predatory life lesbians in media, 311 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: so older women in positions of authority like teachers and 312 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 2: headmistresses taking advantage of and corrupting their students and books 313 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: and movies. This really damaging stereotype would make their affair 314 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: seem particularly salacious if it was discovered. In nineteen twenty four, 315 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: Mead also started an affair with Edward Sapier. While Sapier 316 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 2: and Ruth Benedict were close friends, it seems like their 317 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: relationship was platonic. Their letters to one another don't suggest 318 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,239 Speaker 2: that it was romantic, and when they met, he was 319 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 2: married and devoted to his wife, Florence, But Florence died 320 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty four, and after that Mead pursued him. 321 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 2: Sapier was the one to tell Benedict about this relationship, 322 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 2: and she was deeply hurt by it. It seems like Sapierre, Benedict, 323 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: and Luther Cressman all wanted more from Margaret Meade than 324 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: she really wanted to give. She was an advocate of 325 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 2: free love. This was one of a number of love 326 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 2: triangles or in this case, quadrangles over the course of 327 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 2: Mead's life. 328 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: Although Benedict was really hurt over Mead's affair with Sapir, 329 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: she didn't and their relationship over it. The two women 330 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: wrote numerous letters back and forth after Mead left for 331 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: field work and Samoa in nineteen twenty five, at a 332 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: time when it was incredibly unusual for a woman to 333 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: be sent to do field work on her own. When 334 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: Meade returned to the US, she wrote one of the 335 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: books that she would become famous for, Coming of Age 336 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: in Samoa, a Psychological Study of Primitive Youth for Western Civilization. 337 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: That book came out in nineteen twenty eight, and although 338 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: this book was about adolescence in Samoa, it included descriptions 339 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: of sexuality among Samoan youth, and that's really what it 340 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: became most known for. 341 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 2: So this episode isn't about Mead, but it would be 342 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 2: weird if we didn't mention that Mead's work and this 343 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: book specifically have been the subjects of intense criticism. Mead's 344 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 2: most vocal critic was New Zealand anthropologist Derek Freeman, who 345 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: made totally different observations during his own field work in Samoa. 346 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 2: He published two different books arguing that Meade's work was 347 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: totally incorrect. Critics of Freeman's work have pointed out that 348 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 2: he was working in a different part of Samoa, and 349 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 2: that a lot had changed in the decades between when 350 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 2: Mead did her research and when he did his, including 351 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 2: there being an increasing influence from Christianity. This became known 352 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: as the Mead Freeman controversy. It went on for decades. 353 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 2: My basic read on it is that there are valid 354 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: criticisms of both of them. Of course, Benedict had her 355 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: own life and work going on during all of this, 356 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about that after we pause 357 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: for a sponsor break. In nineteen twenty five, Ruth Fulton 358 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 2: Benedict started editing the Journal of American Folklore. She worked 359 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: as its editor until nineteen forty. She also undertook field 360 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 2: work among Puebloan peoples in the southwestern United States. Because 361 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: of her hearing loss, she had to conduct most of 362 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 2: this work through interpreters and choose those interpreters very carefully 363 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: because they had to be willing to dictate everything they 364 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 2: were interpreting to her while she wrote it all down 365 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: word for word. This is a very time consuming and 366 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: laborious process, but it also led her to be really 367 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 2: pretty careful. In a lot of her field work. She 368 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: tended to work in this like slow, methodical way. 369 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: On Margaret Mead's voyage home from her field work in Samoa, 370 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: she met New Zealand anthropologist Reo Fortune. We're guessing on 371 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: that pronunciation, and she was immediately attracted to him. Benedict 372 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: felt like she had to compete with Fortune in a 373 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: way that she had not with Meaeds other partners, and 374 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: then ultimately led to her ending their romantic relationship. Benedict 375 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: and Meade continued to be called leagues and close friends 376 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: for the rest of Benedict's life, though including Benedict eventually 377 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: being named Guardian Timeade's daughter. In nineteen twenty eight, Benedict 378 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: tried to publish a book of poetry, but again was 379 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: rejected by publishers. She did keep writing poetry, but at 380 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: this point she mostly stopped trying to do it professionally. 381 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: A couple of years after that, she and Stanley separated. 382 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: Apart from their other struggles, he really had not supported 383 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: her going to graduate school or establishing her own career 384 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: as an anthropologist. It was only after their separation that 385 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: Benedict was paid for her teaching work at Columbia. 386 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 2: Before that point, it was assumed that she didn't need 387 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: to be paid because she was being financially supported by 388 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: her husband. 389 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty four, Benedict published Patterns of Culture, which 390 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: is considered to be her most important work. This book 391 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: compared three indigenous cultures, the Zuni of southwestern North America 392 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: based on her own field work, the Dobu of Papua 393 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: and nig Guinea based on fieldwork done by Margaret Meade 394 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: in Reo Fortune, and the Quakwakawacta also known as the 395 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: quaky Utle of the Pacific Northwest, based on fieldwork by 396 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: Franz Boas. This book outlined her ideas about the relationship 397 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: between culture and personality, including that culture was personality. Writ large, 398 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: she described how the way a person lived and thought 399 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: was extensively shaped by the culture they were living in. 400 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: Each culture also had its own definitions for what was 401 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: normal and what was deviant, and so that could only 402 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: be examined for a particular person within the context of 403 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: their own culture. Some of the specifics of this don't 404 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: hold up as well today, like she labeled the cultures 405 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: she was writing about using terms like Apollonian, Dionysian, and paranoid. 406 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: But this book became a bestseller. It was translated into 407 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: fourteen different languages. It helped popularize the idea of cultural 408 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: relativism among lay people, and it introduced people to the 409 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: field of anthem apology more generally, as was the case 410 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: with her mentor Franz Boas, she was really trying to 411 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: see passed the biases and eurocentrism of earlier work, and 412 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: to get away from the assumption that traits that were 413 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: common in European cultures were actually universal. In nineteen thirty seven, 414 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: Benedict was promoted to associate professor at Columbia, making her 415 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: the first woman on the Columbia faculty to receive tenure. 416 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: But her work at the university soon became challenging. The 417 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: years she got tenure, Franz Boas retired, a number of 418 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: faculty and students thought she was the best candidate to 419 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: take his place. In a lot of ways. She had 420 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: been acting as chair of the anthropology department under his direction, 421 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: but instead Ralph Linton was named as his successor. While 422 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: Linton had done his graduate work at Columbia, he had 423 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: never become close to Boas, like so many other students had. 424 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: He and Benedict really did not get along, and in 425 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: a letter to Meade, she called him a swine. By 426 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: this point, Ruth Benedict was a widow. Stanley Benedict had 427 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: died in December of nineteen thirty six, she'd also started 428 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: a relationship with Natalie Raymond. At one point, Benedict wrote 429 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: in her journal, quote, loving Nat and taking such delight 430 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: in her, I have the happiest condition for living that 431 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: I've ever known. Although Benedict and Meade had not been 432 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: romantically involved in quite some time, and Benedict had seen 433 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: other people in the intervening years, they were still really close, 434 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: and Mead seems to have been pretty upset about Benedict 435 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: loving somebody else quite so much. Benedict and Raymond broke 436 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: up sometime in nineteen thirty eight, and in nineteen thirty 437 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,239 Speaker 1: nine Benedict met psychologist Ruth Valentine. By nineteen forty they 438 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: were living together, and their relationship continued for the rest 439 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: of Benedict's life. Benedict wrote a letter to Mead in 440 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: which she said, quote, We've been comfortable together. I know 441 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: she thinks God made me out of rare and spell clay, 442 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: but she doesn't bother me about it. 443 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: I love that. It's so cute. During these same years, 444 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 2: Benedict started intentionally focusing her published work on combating racism. 445 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: This really started after the November Program, also known as 446 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: Krischtelnocht in November of nineteen thirty eight. Afterward, Benedict really 447 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 2: felt that she had a duty to do more to 448 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: educate people about racism. In nineteen thirty nine she took 449 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 2: a sabbatical and wrote a book called Race Science and Politics, 450 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 2: which was both anti racist and anti fascist, and then 451 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty she also joined the Committee on National Morale. 452 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: Benedict and Gene Weltfish adapted Race Science and Politics into 453 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: a shorter pamphlet called The Races of Mankind, paid for 454 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: by the Public Affairs Committee. The pamphlet described all of humanity, 455 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: regardless of race, as related quote the Bible story of 456 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: Adam and Eve, father and mother of the whole human race, 457 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: told centuries ago this same truth that science has shown 458 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: today that all the people of the Earth are a 459 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: single family and have a common origin. Science describes the 460 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: intricate makeup of the human body, all its different organs 461 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: cooperating and keeping us alive. It's curious anatomy that couldn't 462 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: possibly have just happened to be the same in all 463 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: men if they did not have a common origin. This 464 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: pamphlet went on to say that human beings are quote 465 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: what the Bible says, they are brothers in their bodies 466 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: is the record of their brotherhood. Although fifty five thousand 467 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: copies of this pamphlet were printed for members of the 468 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: US Armed Forces, there were members of Congress who called 469 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: it communistic and it wasn't ultimately distributed. There's also a 470 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: film version of this pamphlet that was commissioned by the 471 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: United Autoworkers CIO. This pamphlet is a pretty interesting read 472 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: today because it is explicitly arguing against racism while also 473 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: using language that is considered insensitive or even a f 474 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: offensive by today's standards. Also, as you can tell from 475 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: the passages we just read, it's written with a specific 476 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: audience in mind, and some parts of it really don't 477 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: hold up. Like quote, the Russians have welcomed cultural differences 478 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: and they have refused to treat them as inferiorities. No 479 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: part of the Russian program has had greater success than 480 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: their racial program. As we talked about in our episode 481 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: on Paul Robson and the Peakskill Riots, there were definitely 482 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: black Americans who traveled or immigrated to the Soviet Union 483 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: and found it to be free from the kind of 484 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: racial discrimination they experienced at home. But as we talked 485 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: about in our episode on the Holadamor, Russia and the 486 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: Soviet Union had a long history of oppressing people of 487 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: non Russian ethnic identities, including Ukrainians. 488 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: In nineteen forty three, Benedicts started working for the Office 489 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: of War Information, applying her study of anthropology to US 490 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: interactions with people who were living and occupy and then 491 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: this led to a focus on understanding Japan, both understanding 492 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: how to approach Japan as a wartime enemy and understanding 493 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: how to successfully occupied Japan once presumably the Allies won 494 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: the war. Her research in this area became Report number 495 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,959 Speaker 2: twenty five submitted to the Office of War Information, and 496 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 2: that was later adapted into the book The Chrysanthemum and 497 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: the Sword, which was published in nineteen forty six. Ruth 498 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: Benedict did not speak Japanese and had never been to Japan. 499 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 2: Since the US was at war with Japan, going there 500 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: for field work was out of the question, so this 501 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 2: research was what she described as quote culture at a distance. 502 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 2: She drew from her early education studying literature. As she 503 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: examined and analyzed Japanese media and historical documents, she interviewed 504 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 2: people who had immigrated from Japan and Japanese prisoners of war. 505 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: She basically immersed herself in Japanese cult as much as 506 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: she could without leaving the United States. Like the Races 507 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: of Mankind pamphlet, Report Number twenty five was written for 508 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 2: a specific audience, this time the US government and military, 509 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: and it was for a specific purpose, which was to 510 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: help political and military leaders understand their wartime enemies. They 511 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 2: could make strategic decisions that would ideally help win the war, 512 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 2: and then after the war was over, make decisions that 513 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: would help make the occupation go as smoothly as possible, 514 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: like without a lot of uprisings or insurgency. 515 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: Although Benedict tried to approach Japan in a way that 516 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: was sympathetic and compassionate, her work suggested that culture was 517 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: learned that also meant that it could be changed. She 518 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: thought changing it was necessary and agreed that Japan needed 519 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: to be democratized. She thought an occupation by Allied forces 520 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: after the war would be necessary, but that the occupation 521 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: should be compassionate and fair. She was also one of 522 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: the people who strongly advocated for the Japanese emperor to 523 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: remain as a figurehead after the Japanese surrender to help 524 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: ensure stability during the occupation, although this also meant that 525 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: he never faced any kind of prosecution or accountability for 526 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: war crimes committed by Japan during the war. 527 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 2: And the Chrysanthemum and the Sword, Benedict framed Japanese culture 528 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: as a collection of dualities. The chrysanthemum represented beauty and order, 529 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: and the sword stood for death and discipline. One point 530 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 2: that became a big takeaway was that, in her view, 531 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: Japanese culture was focused more on shame, while American culture 532 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: focused more on guilt. This sort of shame culture guilt 533 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: culture dichotomy is really a pretty small part of the book, 534 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: but it really took off like it's one of the 535 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: things that has really stuck around. The Chrysanthemum and the 536 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 2: Sword is really not an accurate look at Japanese culture today, 537 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: and realistically it was also pretty limited in what it 538 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 2: said about Japanese culture in the nineteen forties. There are 539 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: also some glaring gaps, like she doesn't discuss the impact 540 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: of the US atomic bombing of the cities of Hiroshima 541 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 2: or Nagasaki, something that she argued wasn't yet fully felt 542 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 2: in Japan at the time she wrote it. She also 543 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: doesn't acknowledge that Japanese immigrants to the United States and 544 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 2: their American born children who were US citizens were held 545 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: in concentration camps during the war. That's something we covered 546 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: in more detail in a two parter in twenty seventeen. 547 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: So today this book is seen more as an example 548 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 2: of how the United States viewed Japan and itself after 549 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: the end of World War II. This book was also 550 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: widely discussed in Japan after it was published. There were 551 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 2: meetings in symposia and ongoing discussions within Japanese academia and 552 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: among other Japanese commentators. A lot argued that it was 553 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 2: at best superficial. Some suggested that Benedict had cherry picked 554 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: details to kind of line up with her pre existing 555 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: ideas or to make her work more acceptable to American authorities. 556 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 2: At the same time, though this book became a best 557 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 2: seller in Japan, selling at least two million copies there 558 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 2: by the start of the twenty first century, it became 559 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 2: part of a genre called nehan genron or works about 560 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 2: Japan and Japanese identity, and that's a genre that existed 561 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: before World War two, but became incredibly popular in Japan afterward, 562 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 2: and as a final note on the Chrysanthemum and the 563 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 2: Sword in it, Benedict wrote, quote, the tough minded are 564 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 2: content that differences should exist. They respect differences. Their goal 565 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 2: is a world made safe for differences, where the United 566 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 2: States may be American to the hilt without threatening the 567 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: peace of the world, and France maybe France, and Japan, 568 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 2: maybe Japan, on the same conditions. This statement is very 569 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 2: frequently paraphrased as the purpose of anthropology is to make 570 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 2: the world safe for human differences, and attributed to Ruth Benedict, 571 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 2: although she never really said this shorter version. In nineteen 572 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 2: forty six, Ruth Benedict received the annual Achievement Award of 573 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 2: the American Association of University Women. In nineteen forty seven, 574 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 2: she was elected president of the American Anthropological Association, and 575 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: that same year became a Fellow in the American Academy 576 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 2: of Arts and Sciences. In nineteen forty eight, she became 577 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 2: the first woman to become a full professor at Columbia University. 578 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: Also in nineteen forty eight, Benedict launched the Columbia University 579 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: Research in Contemporary Cultures program that was funded by the 580 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: US Office of Naval Research. She planned to collaborate with 581 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: Margaret Meade and others to study contemporary cultures at a distance. 582 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: This is also sometimes described as a study of national character. 583 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: This was a huge four year project, bringing in one 584 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 1: hundred twenty scholars of sixteen nationalities representing fourteen academic disciplines. 585 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 2: But Benedict died before it really got under way. Had 586 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 2: a heart attack in September of nineteen forty seven, shortly 587 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 2: after returning from a trip to Europe to speak at 588 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 2: a seminar in Czechoslovakia. Doctors told her she had to 589 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 2: rest and keep her mind off of work for the 590 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 2: sake of her heart. Margaret Meade was with her and 591 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 2: wrote of this period quote in the five days she lived, 592 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: she never referred to work again, but put all her 593 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 2: effort into staying quietly alive until Ruth Valentine got back 594 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:27,399 Speaker 2: from California. 595 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: Ruth Valentine was there by the end. Ruth Benedict died 596 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: on September seventeenth, nineteen forty eight, at the age of 597 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: sixty nine. Ruth Valentine was the executor of her estate 598 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: and Margaret Meade was her literary executor. Meade lived until 599 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, and in nineteen fifty nine she published 600 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 1: an Anthropologist at Work, Writings of Ruth Benedict. This book 601 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: included her own thoughts on Benedict's life and work, in 602 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: addition to selections from Benedict's writing. One thing that's included 603 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: is Benedict's piece on Mary Way host Kraft that she 604 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: had written back in the nineteen teens. On October twentieth, 605 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, Ruth Benedict was honored with a postage stamp. Today, 606 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: the Association for Queer Anthropology, which is a section of 607 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 1: the American Anthropological Association, awards an annual Ruth Benedict Award 608 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: Quote to acknowledge excellence in a scholarly book written from 609 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: an anthropological perspective about a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender topic. 610 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 2: That is Ruth Benedict. 611 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: Do you have some listener mail as well? 612 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: Have a listener Facebook comment from Kelly and it is 613 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 2: about our recent episode on Hasukura Sunanaga, and Kelly wrote, 614 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 2: just listen to this. I researched it recently due to 615 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 2: another podcast. Throughout the episode, you pronounced the Spanish missionaries 616 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 2: name so Leto. It is, in fact, so Tello. Your 617 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 2: pronunciation made me go back and check my sources think 618 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 2: I had transposed the letters. But this time it wasn't me, No, Kelly, 619 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 2: it was not you, thank you, It was me. It 620 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 2: was me here. So it's embarrassing to make silly mistakes 621 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 2: in front of everyone, and then you're on a podcast 622 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 2: and they just stay out there for the remainder of 623 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 2: time wherever. So I'm sorry for making this mistake. 624 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: That. 625 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 2: What's funny to me about this one is that I 626 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 2: actually finished writing that episode almost a week before we 627 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 2: recorded it, which is unusual. So every morning I would 628 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 2: get up to and get to my desk and I 629 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 2: would read back over that outline and like make little 630 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 2: minor copy tweaks and stuff like that. And I did 631 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 2: that like every day for like three or four days 632 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 2: in the row before we actually recorded it, and somehow 633 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 2: overlooked the fact that I consistently spelled this guy's name 634 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 2: wrong the entire time, and also at some point in 635 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 2: the middle of the episode flipped to two syllable and 636 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 2: how I had typed out Hasakorusnanaga's name. That one we 637 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 2: caught when we were recording, though I don't know how 638 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 2: I managed to consistently make the same mistake throughout the 639 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,399 Speaker 2: whole entire episode, but I am sorry for having done 640 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 2: that and not caught it in my many many rereads 641 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 2: of that episode. Thank you Kelly for spotting it and 642 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 2: letting us know. 643 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: I feel like that's one of those things that starts 644 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: where I don't know about you. You may not have 645 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: this problem, but I do know other people who have 646 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: worked as copy editors sometimes do. It's like you have 647 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,280 Speaker 1: to fight it a lot because your brain autocorrect stuff. Yeah, 648 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 1: and then you never realize you've done it, and then 649 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 1: it's too late and you have relearned it the wrong way. 650 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 2: Yep, this is absolutely true. And there also are just 651 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 2: a number of regular English words that you or I 652 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,760 Speaker 2: or both of us have suddenly realized we've been saying 653 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 2: wrong our entire lives, Like in the middle of recording 654 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 2: an episode, uh what never Yeah, probably because one or 655 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 2: the other of us learned that word by reading and 656 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 2: made a mental pronunciation for it thirty five or more 657 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 2: years ago. That has just been with us that whole time. 658 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm sorry for somehow flipping those letters around. 659 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 2: Thank you again for letting me know if you would 660 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 2: like to write to us about this or any other 661 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 2: podcast where at History Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. We're 662 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 2: all over social media at misson History. That's we'll find 663 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 2: our Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, and Instagram, and you can subscribe 664 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 2: to our show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever else 665 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 2: you'd like to get your podcasts. Stuff you missed in 666 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 2: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 667 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 668 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.