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Speaker 1: What I'm trying to warn you about what about spoilers.

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Speaker 1: Today there will be major spoilers from Sodi's Run Them

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Speaker 1: Let that regard it, Disney's What If, and not even

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Speaker 1: the watcher knows what else. Okay, fine, great, thank you

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Speaker 1: for this, I love you.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to episode six of Extra Revision of the crook

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Speaker 1: Of podcast, where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics,

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Speaker 1: pop culture and more. Today we are covering the finale

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Speaker 1: of the Disney Plus show What If and giving our

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Speaker 1: thoughts on the pure, uncut insanity that is Venom Let

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Speaker 1: there Be Cardage and so much more. But first, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show writer, comic book whiz pop culture prophet,

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Speaker 1: the Great Rosie Night. Rosie, Hello, Hello, how are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing great. I've my brain has been absolutely shattered

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Speaker 1: by the venom Let their Becardage experience, so let's talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Quick quick recap for the folks. This is,

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Speaker 1: of course, the second Venom movie and spoiler alert, a

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Speaker 1: bridge for Venom to enter the MCU, directed by mocap

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Speaker 1: Whiz Andy Circus, written by Kelly Marcel of Saving Mister

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Speaker 1: Banks in Fifty Shades of Grave fame a quick recap

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Speaker 1: if that's necessary. Venom and Tom Hardy's Eddie Brock have

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Speaker 1: deepened their relationship, but of course, like any relationship, they've

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Speaker 1: entered that rocky phase, that kind of like post I

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Speaker 1: love you phase where it's like, Okay, now it's time

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Speaker 1: to do the dishes. Now it's time to clean the apartment,

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Speaker 1: or not clean the apartment apparently, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: a Venom would like to eat people, Eddie Brock is like, no,

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Speaker 1: please don't. Meanwhile, a piece of the symbiote has gotten

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Speaker 1: free during Eddie Brock's interview with the serial killer Cletus Cassidy,

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Speaker 1: and guess what, Carnage is born. This movie is purely insane, Rosie.

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Speaker 3: I mean, everything that you just said sounds like it

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Speaker 3: couldn't fit into eighty five minutes. And what you were

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Speaker 3: talking about was literally like the first fifteen minutes of

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Speaker 3: the movie.

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Speaker 1: Well that let me just say this, eighty five minutes

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Speaker 1: a brisk eighty five like it goes Yeah, it wastes

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Speaker 1: absolutely no time getting to the mid credit scene, which

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Speaker 1: is really the important thing. I love eighty five to

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Speaker 1: ninety minute movies, and this is one of those.

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Speaker 3: Ninety minute movies. Is like I always say, like if

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Speaker 3: a movie's ninety minutes, I'm probably gonna enjoy it. But

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Speaker 3: I was not prepared for a big budget, big two

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Speaker 3: superhero movie to be a five minute. It's like we

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Speaker 3: are living in the three hour Like I saw this

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Speaker 3: on this same day There's No Time to Die, which

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Speaker 3: was really good, but it's like two hours and forty

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Speaker 3: five minutes. So I went into this thinking it would

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Speaker 3: be like two hours and twenty minutes long, and suddenly

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Speaker 3: it was the end of the movie, and I was like, WHOA,

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Speaker 3: what just happened? Like it is absolutely unhinged. It took

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Speaker 3: everything that I thought they would never carry over from

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Speaker 3: the first movie, and they just put only that in

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Speaker 3: the second movie. They cut out the kind of cinematic

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Speaker 3: backstories and the and the stuff that tried to make

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Speaker 3: the first movie a long and be story based, I guess,

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Speaker 3: and instead they were just like it's Tom Hardy and

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Speaker 3: he's playing Venom and Eddie Brock they're both unhinged. And

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Speaker 3: also here's Michelle Williams with some unbelievable line reads.

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Speaker 1: Just Michelle Williams is in this movie, Like I need

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Speaker 1: to put the down payment on my lake house, like yeah, energy,

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Speaker 1: like I'm here to make sure my kids fund is

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Speaker 1: firmly established.

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Speaker 3: In the first movie, she actually has like my favorite line,

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Speaker 3: which is near the end of the first movie, after

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Speaker 3: everything that's happened, when Venom has apparently been blown up

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Speaker 3: or something. They're sitting on this street looking over like

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Speaker 3: the beautiful late San Francisco stealin and she looks at

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Speaker 3: him and she's like, really sincere. She's like, sorry about Venom.

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Speaker 3: Like I say that all the time because I'm like,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean He's like an alien who took

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Speaker 3: over this guy's body, Like, what what do you mean?

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Speaker 3: Sorry about Veniam? But in this movie, every line she

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Speaker 3: delivers is on that level of incredibleness. Like they're in

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Speaker 3: a restaurant and she's like, is Venom in there? And

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Speaker 3: she's like, yeah, secretly talk to Venom. And it's just

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Speaker 3: like I can't fathom. When I watched the movie, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: this is a true time capsule of the time we're in,

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Speaker 3: because there is just no way that this movie exists

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Speaker 3: at any other period of time. There's just no way.

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Speaker 1: Part of the issue and part of why this movie

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Speaker 1: is insane, this is let me just bottom line it,

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Speaker 1: this is not a good movie, but there are things

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Speaker 1: about it, much like the first Venom movie, that are

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Speaker 1: so insane that I'm really glad that they're there because

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Speaker 1: they're so weird. That said, no one in this film

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Speaker 1: reacts the way a human being would react to literally anything.

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Speaker 1: There is one point where missus Chen.

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Speaker 3: The missus Chen, the grocery store.

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Speaker 1: Owner who remember from the first episode, miss Chen is

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Speaker 1: is hard at work and a venom host right, so,

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Speaker 1: like Venom and Eddie have been separated, and Venom is

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Speaker 1: jumping from body body and absolutely just burning, just killing bodies,

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Speaker 1: out killing people. A venom host wanders into missus Chen's store,

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Speaker 1: so it's Venom and a different body and collapses and

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Speaker 1: and pukes. It's like the blackness coming out of like

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Speaker 1: and and looks like on the edge of death. And

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Speaker 1: missus Chen like lovingly cradles this half corpses head to

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Speaker 1: her chest like a like a mother cray lak er child.

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Speaker 1: It's like what And the theater is guffawing loud. You

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Speaker 1: knew that it was gonna be nuts. When the movie

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Speaker 1: opens with the Chiron nineteen ninety six and we see

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Speaker 1: a younger version of Cleatus Cassidy played by Jack Bandira.

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Speaker 1: So this is the younger version of Woody Harrelsoon's character.

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Speaker 1: Woody Harrelson was about thirty five thirty six in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six. He's being played by like a twenty three

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Speaker 1: year old man in this flashback, and they dub Woody

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Speaker 1: Harrelson's voice now over the performance of Jack Bandera as

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Speaker 1: young Kleatus. It is that choice alone is so fucking crazy,

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Speaker 1: and you knew when that happened that you were in

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Speaker 1: for this shit.

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Speaker 3: And and so like the funniest thing about that is

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Speaker 3: like that is the most unhinged thing about opening, But

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Speaker 3: it almost isn't because like you we're we're introduced to

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Speaker 3: them because they're like, so it's Cletus and U Shriek,

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Speaker 3: who's Frances Barrison, Ye know me Harris when she's older,

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Speaker 3: And they're communicating through their toilets like it's like a

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Speaker 3: romantic toilet sister is like they have to put their

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Speaker 3: faces next to their toilets to talk to each other

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Speaker 3: in this like terrible orphanage there. And also the other

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Speaker 3: thing that kind of blew my mind about that opening

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Speaker 3: is they just straight up basically say that Shriek is

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Speaker 3: a mutant. She's like, she's like, oh, the mutations are

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Speaker 3: too strong, And I was like, whoa, I didn't even know,

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Speaker 3: like Marvel anyone could say the word mutation, like what's

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Speaker 3: going on here? And uh and yeah, I mean that,

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Speaker 3: it's just that when they dubbed Woody Harrison's voice, you

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Speaker 3: just know you're in for it. You're like, it's it's,

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Speaker 3: it's it's things are going on. I mean, well, they

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Speaker 3: just so obviously like they wanted to get to the

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Speaker 3: end of that, and they wanted to do some cool fights,

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Speaker 3: and they wanted to through the mid credit scene. So

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Speaker 3: halfway through the movie, they're just like, uh, what's Woody

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Speaker 3: Harrison been in before Natural Born Killers? And then they

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Speaker 3: just do like twenty minutes of Natural Born Killers with

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Speaker 3: him and.

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Speaker 1: Shriek, down to his outfit, down to the car, down

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Speaker 1: to the way they are driving around. Naomi Harris, you

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Speaker 1: want to talk at line reads Naomi Harris in this film, man,

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Speaker 1: She's one of the greats. I love her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: How crazy Also to be like, you saw her in

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Speaker 1: two movies that day and it could not be the

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Speaker 1: oh yeah in No U of Polar opposites truly, like

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Speaker 1: No Time to Die.

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Speaker 3: She is just the absolute like smoothest, Yeah, incredible. You

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Speaker 3: just watch her and you're like wow, like I just

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Speaker 3: want to see like the movie only about Moneypenny, Like

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Speaker 3: that's all I want to see. This is just pure

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Speaker 3: in this movie, she's just chewing scenery and venom. She's

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Speaker 3: loving life. There's that one scene where she's like, he's like,

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Speaker 3: I think it's the guy from Veep Dan, and he's

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Speaker 3: like Dan was also named Dan in this movie.

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Speaker 1: Strangely, they made the decision in movie one to be

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Speaker 1: like this actor's most famous role is named Dan, so

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Speaker 1: we'll just make him his most famous role is also

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Speaker 1: named Dan, so let's also call him Dan. And he

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Speaker 1: completely confusing.

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Speaker 3: He only has like one he is playing. Even though

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Speaker 3: he's not like a total scumbag like he wasn't deep,

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Speaker 3: he definitely has a similar energy. So it is like

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Speaker 3: really confusing. And then so he says something like he's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, Venom's gonna kill you or he's gonna kill

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Speaker 3: both of you because they kidnapped Michelle Williams, who's obviously

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Speaker 3: not that bothered about it, and she does this line

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Speaker 3: reading that is just so iconic because she's like people

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Speaker 3: tried it before, and then she just really high pitches

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Speaker 3: it and she's like botched it, and you're just like,

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Speaker 3: this is unbelievable. Like she is having so much fun.

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Speaker 3: I just kind of love that, Like I feel like

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Speaker 3: Andy sex is. Their action was just like do whatever

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Speaker 3: you want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do more, do more, and again, this movie is

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Speaker 1: super weird, kind of bad, but they take so many

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Speaker 1: crazy like listen, the relationship between Brock and Venom is

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Speaker 1: essentially a codependent romantic relationship. Again, at the end of

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Speaker 1: the movie, Venom tells Eddie Brock that he loves him

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Speaker 1: in a very sincere way, and they spend the entire

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Speaker 1: movie when they are together arguing. They then separate. Venom

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Speaker 1: goes on this weird like vision quest where he goes

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Speaker 1: to a rave.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of coded as a Pride yeates lots of rainbows,

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Speaker 3: and then he gives a speech about how he's.

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Speaker 1: Coming rainbow lights around his body.

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Speaker 3: It's it's like, I think that actually, like that the

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Speaker 3: one thing that I'm like, they should have just committed

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Speaker 3: to that and just made it pride and made it

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Speaker 3: obviously they're gay, because everybody knows they're in love with

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Speaker 3: each other, like these two codependent, toxic losers in their

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Speaker 3: own words.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: That was another bit when he was like, you are

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Speaker 3: a loser on your planet, and I was like, oh

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Speaker 3: my god, this is like the line that I never

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Speaker 3: thought we would hear from again where they just both

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Speaker 3: call each other losers and admit to being losers. That

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Speaker 3: is in the first like five minutes of the movie.

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Speaker 3: And he was like, I know what you want. You

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Speaker 3: want Venom to talk about how he's a Loser's like yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Another Like there's so many crazy moments. So at one

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Speaker 1: point during the Natural Born Killer's Escapade, Cassidy and Shriek

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Speaker 1: are driving around and they stop at a gas station

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Speaker 1: where the clerk is just like surfing the internet like

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Speaker 1: on a Dell laptop. Cassidy jumps over the counter, kills

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Speaker 1: the gas station attendant, and then puts his symbiote fingers

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Speaker 1: into the US people hacks. Legitimately hacks the laptop to

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Speaker 1: discover the location of the asylum where a shrink was

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Speaker 1: being held, and it like creates a browser.

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Speaker 3: It creates a red carnage themed browser that somehow from

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Speaker 3: a random kid working in a Badega's laptop hacks into

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Speaker 3: like top secret police files that the main cop did

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Speaker 3: not know about. He didn't even know about them, the

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Speaker 3: one cop.

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Speaker 4: I mean.

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Speaker 3: Also, the other thing is like on a comic book level.

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Speaker 3: So Shriek in the comics is a is a symbia,

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Speaker 3: she's not. Yes, And we also meet this Patrick Mulligan

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Speaker 3: who's played by like legitimately one of the best actors

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Speaker 3: in the world, Stephen Graham, and and like he is

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Speaker 3: just the funniest like Boston cop kind of trope. And

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Speaker 3: he in the comics becomes Toxin. So it's like that

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Speaker 3: kind of hot. It was like somebody was trying to

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Speaker 3: set up like a planet venom, like multiple symbias.

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Speaker 4: But then they were just like eh because because because

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Speaker 4: Shrink is.

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Speaker 3: Apparently dead at the end of the movie.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, So this is this is a perfect bridge to

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Speaker 1: start talking about the the universe's expanding tagline from the

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Speaker 1: promo materials, which we all assumed would be We're gonna

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Speaker 1: get these asexual spawns of carnage and venom. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: meet Tocsin, Shreek, et cetera. We're gonna see all the

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Speaker 1: kind of like mini symbiotes that have in Marvel cannon

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Speaker 1: spun off from Venom. I think that it's we all

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Speaker 1: assume that's what it was gonna be. I certainly did.

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Speaker 1: And then the mid credits scene comes, and what it

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Speaker 1: is is an introduction of Venom into the Marvel timeline.

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see Venom in uh No Way Home,

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Speaker 1: like almost confirmed. Basically, Eddie brock Is is sitting on

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Speaker 1: the bed in some shitty hotel, upset about his life.

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Speaker 1: He and Vanom are wondering what's next, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, everything changes and they're in this tropical

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Speaker 1: location and Peter Parker is on the television uh as

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Speaker 1: part of a you know, Daily Bugle editorial comment where

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Speaker 1: you know, the Bugle is saying, this guy fucking sucks

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Speaker 1: the whole you know, everything that's going on with the

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Speaker 1: cereal sucks.

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Speaker 3: I think it's the same thing from the end of

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Speaker 3: Far From Home. So I think it actually sets it

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Speaker 3: up as being basically they join at that moment, which

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Speaker 3: is just before No Way Home.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and Venom says that guard because apparently.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I okay, so this is what I think.

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Speaker 3: So in that scene, right, so they Eddie takes Venom

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Speaker 3: on like a romantic holiday, because Venom's dream is that

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Speaker 3: he can like put his toes in the sand and

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Speaker 3: feel the wind in his hair and then that but

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Speaker 3: it's like kind of a scrubby like hotel. And then

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Speaker 3: but just before it happens, Venom says something that I

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Speaker 3: think is one of the most hilarious and probably gonna

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Speaker 3: end up. It seems like a throwaway line, but I

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Speaker 3: think it's gonna be a really big part of No

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Speaker 3: Way Home. Venom says to Eddie they're watching a telenovela

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Speaker 3: and Venom's like, everybody has secrets, and Eddie's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: are you hiding something from me? And then Venom says,

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Speaker 3: eighty billion years of the Symbia high mind, you don't

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Speaker 3: know what we've seen, like you couldn't comprehend it, blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah. And he says he's going to show it

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Speaker 3: to Eddie. But then this weird like universal change happens

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Speaker 3: and they end up in the MCU. But I think

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Speaker 3: because when he sees him, he sees Peter Parker. He

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Speaker 3: licks the screen. It's as gross as it should be,

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Speaker 3: and he's like that guy. And when we see in

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Speaker 3: the trailer for Noway Home when we saw Doc Cok,

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Speaker 3: he also recognized Peter, So I think there's gonna be

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Speaker 3: some idea of like in the Venom's case, he maybe

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Speaker 3: he has seen Peter through the Tota Grace is not

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Speaker 3: coming back, but maybe something like that is gonna happen,

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Speaker 3: and it's I think it's like, it's very silly, but

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Speaker 3: this whole movie is really silly.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. So in the comics, eventually we

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Speaker 1: get the backstory of the symbiote, who I believe is

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Speaker 1: named Clerk and uh because of all the kind of

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Speaker 1: like bloodlust and trauma and murders that he's committed. Eventually

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Speaker 1: he goes back to the Hive Mind where he's like cleansed.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we get some kind of version of that that

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Speaker 1: allows Venom to not be the weird Sodi Venom and

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Speaker 1: and kind of like cleanses it of all the strangers

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Speaker 1: and makes it more malleable. For the MCU inclusion, I

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Speaker 1: think that they're.

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Speaker 3: Probably gonna just like my feeling is, I couldn't really

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Speaker 3: want it was blowing my mind when you first watched

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Speaker 3: that movie. You just can't be prepared for it. Even

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Speaker 3: if you've listened to us talk about it. Now, you

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Speaker 3: can't really be prepared.

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Speaker 1: EXPERI cannot. You are not ready for how fucking crazy

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Speaker 1: this day movie? You just simply are not.

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Speaker 3: So you're just not. I saw it like again and

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Speaker 3: I still wasn't prepared even though I had already seen it.

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Speaker 3: So I do think that there's I just think there's

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Speaker 3: kind of some I was trying to work out. Kevin

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Speaker 3: Faggy is like a king of quality control. Part of

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Speaker 3: the reason they're having to explode the MCU into this

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Speaker 3: multi verse now is because of how absolutely streamlined it's

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Speaker 3: been up until this point, so it doesn't to me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, what can Faggy and the MCU and

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Speaker 3: Disney get out of this by not making it something

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Speaker 3: where Tom Holland just randomly has a cameo to make

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Speaker 3: Sony happy or whatever and making it where you bring venomin.

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Speaker 3: I think it's to get the Symbia into the MCU,

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Speaker 3: because then you can you can venomize other characters, you

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Speaker 3: can have anti venom you could actually do a black

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Speaker 3: Symbia story with Peter or maybe Miles or whatever. And

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Speaker 3: I think, really, as much as I would love to

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Speaker 3: see how they could fit wild Tom Holland it's just

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Speaker 3: it's too wacky. MC Watching that movie, you just realize

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Speaker 3: how safe the MCU plays it, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. I think that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be something like that as in the comics a

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Speaker 1: lot like the movie, the Symbia has a like love

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Speaker 1: hate relationship with a lot of its hosts, including Eddie Brock,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of like leaving and coming back

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Speaker 1: and leaving Eddie Brock for Peter Parker, but then rediscovering

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Speaker 1: Eddie Brock. And it does that again and again with

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Speaker 1: different hosts, and there have been more quote unquote normal hosts.

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Speaker 1: So I think that you're right about that. I think

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Speaker 1: that we're going to see the I think we're going

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Speaker 1: to see the Symbia cleaved off of Eddie at some

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Speaker 1: point and maybe kept in a laboratory and studied by

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Speaker 1: perhaps a scientist named Reid Richards as they figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to kind of introduce the Symbia into like

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Speaker 1: the more mainline Marvel canon. That is a lot there's

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Speaker 1: just stuff that would not work in Marvel Disney constitution,

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Speaker 1: for instance, And again there are so many weird moments

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Speaker 1: of this, But like The movie kind of ends with

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Speaker 1: Eddie Brock talking to two chickens in the park that

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Speaker 1: are his pets that he bought for Venom to eat,

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Speaker 1: but Venom didn't want to eat them because their brains

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Speaker 1: were too small, and to these and they're best friends.

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Speaker 1: Talking to two chickens about the classic Spanish novel Don

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Speaker 1: Quixote and the relationship between Don Quixote and Sancho Panza.

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Speaker 1: That's a scene in this is also a recurring theme.

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Speaker 3: Like it's like it happens once and then he returns there,

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Speaker 3: Like it's that's something they really thought was important enough

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Speaker 3: to like put in twice. It's mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: I think, like so in in Marvel, like, uh, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about some of the things that Venom does in

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Speaker 1: the comics that we could potentially see in the MCU.

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Speaker 1: So Venom, I mean venoms and Guardians in the Galaxy,

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Speaker 1: which for a spell which I don't know that people

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Speaker 1: really know about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think as well, like they've had so much success,

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Speaker 3: Like they did a big venomized event where everyone got venomized.

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Speaker 3: You know, they had a venomized t Rex in Old

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Speaker 3: Man Logan, they had venomized rocket and group. They had

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Speaker 3: venomized everyone, and those toys still sell to this day.

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Speaker 3: My nephew has a venomized Miles Morales. They still keep

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Speaker 3: venomizing these characters, seeing what would happen when a character,

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Speaker 3: So if they wanted to do a kind of darker

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Speaker 3: take on something, you know, we've seen them do Marvel

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Speaker 3: Zombies a version of it, and what if I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be surprised if we saw some kind of venomized thing

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Speaker 3: or saw an unexpected character like Gwen Poole or something

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Speaker 3: be introduced in a venomized way with I think that

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Speaker 3: they must be really and also they love military stuff.

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Speaker 3: I know that one of the Venom the kind of

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Speaker 3: like later stage.

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Speaker 1: Agent Agent Agent Agent Venom. The was a vet, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was a vet. It was like a paralyzed vet.

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Speaker 3: And then the magical the Venom is like a magical

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Speaker 3: disability cure. Is very not good to me. But that

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Speaker 3: definitely does seem like something they love. A militarized superhero

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Speaker 3: that could be an interesting way. Also would be very

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Speaker 3: easy for the Symbia to get into the hands of

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Speaker 3: the military and the MCU. So also that space is

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Speaker 3: a big thing right now, not just in what if

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Speaker 3: but with the scrolls and everything else, so we could

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Speaker 3: even there could even be something where the tom Hardy

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Speaker 3: venom coming into the MCU is not necessarily a fake out,

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Speaker 3: but is a bit of a red herring for where

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Speaker 3: the real symbia might come from with all the space exploration.

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Speaker 1: Actually, you know now that you mention it. It was

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Speaker 1: recently revealed that the Symbio and Gore, the God Butcher

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Speaker 1: like share a common ancestry.

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Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense when you think about

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Speaker 3: Gore's powers.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, so I could see the symbia being a

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Speaker 1: bridge to love and thunder in some form or fashion

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Speaker 1: to get us prepared for the God Butcher.

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Speaker 3: Also as well, like if you were going to trust

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Speaker 3: one person and one tone in the MCU to bridge

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Speaker 3: those it would be tiger like.

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Speaker 1: It would tid.

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Speaker 3: Humor and the cheekiness, but also with the ability to

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Speaker 3: tell like slick human character based stories that you would

395
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Speaker 3: probably need to kind of take venom from the venom.

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Speaker 3: Let there be carnage to a venom that's acceptable in

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Speaker 3: the MCU.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any venom rex for people who are

399
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Speaker 1: like I gotta know about venom?

400
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Speaker 3: Well, I think the number one thing you need to

401
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Speaker 3: read because of it was a it was a let's say,

402
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 3: and I'm going to put the inverted commas around inspiration,

403
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 3: but it was definitely an inspiration for this movie. Is

404
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Speaker 3: Venom lethal Protector?

405
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Speaker 1: That's I mean they mentioned it only fifteen twenty times mo.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they even proceed the coming to the

407
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Speaker 3: MCU where they're like, you know, He's like, we'll go

408
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Speaker 3: wherever they need a lethal protector, and that means a

409
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 3: lot to Venom because he really wants to be known

410
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: as the lethal Protector. But that's a really classic series

411
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 3: sees Venom take on more of a he he thinks

412
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Speaker 3: he's a hero because of the threat of other symbias

413
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 3: and stuff Planet Venom. Also, if you want to know

414
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Speaker 3: more about the kind of characters that we've seen in here,

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Speaker 3: I'm I think one of the reasons this movie and

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Speaker 3: the first movie was so popular, Venom was such like

417
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Speaker 3: an inherently nineties staple. Yes, there were clothes of Venom,

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Speaker 3: there were baseball shirts, there were toys, there was POGs,

419
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 3: there stationary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that was a very ninety.

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Speaker 3: I think that we people who grew up in the

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Speaker 3: nineties or who were around that whether you were a

423
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: little kid, whether you're a teenager who thought it was cool, whatever,

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Speaker 3: that is the buying market for these movies. And I

425
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Speaker 3: think this is the ultimate nostalgia payoff for Sony because

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Speaker 3: I just that has to be the reason why people

427
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Speaker 3: go to these So I think looking back to those

428
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 3: nineties comics is like really fun. Also, the original black

429
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 3: Suit Symbia Spider Man storyline, it's just really tall. The

430
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: art is amazing. It's really interesting to read, and you

431
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 3: will be surprised by how how accurate this Spider Man

432
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 3: three representation is. Like when comparing it to Venom, You're like, wow,

433
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 3: Spider Man three really was like into the comic book accuracy.

434
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: I also, I will notice that it appears that his

435
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: bracelet budget was cut.

436
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: I know it was disrespectful. It was for the wigs.

437
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: That must have been what it's for, because you know,

438
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: we're talking like a mid five figure bracelet budget. For

439
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: the first movie.

440
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 3: They let him keep his horrible leather jacket with a

441
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: zip down the middle. That was like it, and then

442
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 3: they were like, we need to spend at least five

443
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: hundred dollars on Patrick Mulligan's wig. And also Woody Harrison's

444
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: Wig justice for Woody Harrison's original Venom Stinger Wig, though,

445
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: because I would have loved to see this movie. I

446
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 3: feel like this one wasn't good, but I missed the chaotic,

447
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: noodle headed like red nightmare wig from this Stinger.

448
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: So who are we going to see? Your predictions? Who

449
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: we're going to see? In No Way Home?

450
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: And after that ending, which i'd heard, i'd heard rumblings

451
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: that maybe Tom Holland would be it. I did not

452
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 3: believe it. I didn't he believe it.

453
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: I was shot fell open.

454
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 3: I'd heard people saying like, oh, supposedly he's going to

455
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: be in this post credit scene, and I was like, yeah,

456
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: of course he is, sure, Like wink wink, where did

457
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: you get that news from?

458
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: I was wrong?

459
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: So after that, I just think it's all bets are off.

460
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 3: I think we're definitely obviously seeing the old Spiders. Yeah,

461
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: Andrew and Toby. I'm really hoping if that's the case.

462
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 3: And now that we've seen that they're open to having

463
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: Tom Hardy's definitely going to be in it, We're gonna

464
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 3: at least see Eddie Brock. Momentarily. I don't think they're

465
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 3: going to bring to because I think that it makes

466
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 3: they can just be like the symbia is the connecting

467
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 3: tissue there right right. What I'm really hoping is we're

468
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: gonna get to see Nicholas Hammond, who played the Old

469
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 3: Spider Man in the CBS TV shows. I want to

470
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: see the guy who played Japanese Spider Man. Like, if

471
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 3: they're really gonna do it, I'm like, let's just do it.

472
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: And after Venomide, no, I would love to see Spider

473
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 3: Ham Spider Ham's and Icon. I mean, bring in Nicholas

474
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 3: Cage as yea as Spider Man. I think we could

475
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 3: see Miles now. I don't know if they would do

476
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 3: I don't know if they would do something where in

477
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 3: a momentary animated sequence of the Multiverse we saw into

478
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: the Spider Verse Miles or something. But I think Miles

479
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 3: is coming soon. I just, I honestly are I never

480
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: saw that venom ending coming, and now I just think

481
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: anyone's going to be in it.

482
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: I wonder if we do see I think we're introduced

483
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: to him, maybe not powered up, but I was thinking,

484
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, who knows what the off ramp here is

485
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: or I don't know what Tom Hardy's contract is, but

486
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: there's a world in which obviously the Sinister Six is

487
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: going to be involved in this. We've got basically everyone now,

488
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, ultimate Peter Parker perishes while fighting the Sinister Six,

489
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: and that paves away for Miles Morales. You know, theoretically,

490
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: that's on the table if they wanted to do that.

491
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: I do think that this movie, we're going to see

492
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 3: a version of doctor Strange die. We now know there's

493
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: probably multiple versions. I think we're going to see a

494
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 3: version of Peter die, probably the main version. Tom Holand

495
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 3: has played this character for a long time. He's old now.

496
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 3: And also we all know, if you've read the comics,

497
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: those almost Spider Ma comics, there is a part of

498
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: that storyline where you have Peter and Miles together. So

499
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 3: it's not like Tom Holand couldn't come back. But I

500
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: do think that we're going to see a lot of deaths.

501
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 3: I think they're going to go for a even though

502
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 3: it's only been a few years, I think they're going

503
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 3: to try and go for an endgame style event movie

504
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: that's going to introduce a ton of big cameo moments

505
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: and also some emotional death situation.

506
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: That's a good point because like what is as we're

507
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: looking ahead here, what's the Team Up movie? That's the

508
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: thing that we're missing is the Avengers framework, you know,

509
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: and and the you know, the Captain America acted this

510
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: way too. Is it No Way Home? Or do you

511
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: or is it? Is it mouthed Madness? Do you think

512
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: that is the Team Up movie?

513
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: I think it's probably gonna be Mouth of Madness. I

514
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: think that No Way Home. We're gonna get multiverse, A

515
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: Multiverse of Madness. Yeah, I know, it's that's where they

516
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: took the name from. I think it's okay to get

517
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 3: it mixed up. Yeah, Doctor Stranger in the Multiverse of Madness.

518
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: I think that's gonna be the team up. You're gonna

519
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 3: have Wonder, You're gonna have Strange. It's Wonder gonna be

520
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: on his side, who knows. You know, that's potentially where

521
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 3: you could get some more cosmic characters are clear, Maybe

522
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 3: you know some Mount Wondergore stuff. We they hinted at

523
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: the other at the end of that's my personal dream.

524
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 3: I will keep talking about it forever.

525
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: I do.

526
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: Simon Williams wonder Man like. I think they could introduce

527
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 3: a bunch of different weird characters in there or eventually

528
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: if we see No Way Home as maybe Malivas Madness

529
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: as like a two pot movie because we know Doc

530
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: Strangers both. Maybe No Way Home is going to introduce

531
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: some characters that we will then see Tea Mop in

532
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: Malis Madness.

533
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: I Love it Up. Next, Rosie and I step into

534
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: the airlock where we talk about the finale of What If.

535
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: We're back today. We're stepping out of the airlock and

536
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: into the multiverse to discuss the finale of the first

537
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: season of What If. First, a quick recap, so the

538
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: finale builds on the events of episode eight, What If

539
00:29:50,960 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: Ultron one, in which post apocalyptic Black Widow and Clint

540
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: make a deal with the devil, in this case the

541
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: Nazi former Nazi, current Nazi, former founder of Shield Arnim Zola,

542
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 1: and download him into an arrow in the hopes that

543
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: they can use him to to corrupt Ultron. Can't be

544
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: said enough, Arnam Zola, Let's remember this active Nazi and

545
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: that and that leads us into episode nine, What If

546
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: the Watcher Broke is Oath, in which in order to

547
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: defeat Ultron, the Watcher assembles the Guardians of the Multiverse,

548
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: who are these various characters who we have encountered throughout

549
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: the course of this series. They are Captain Carter, Star

550
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: Lord t'chala, a variant of Gomora that killed Thanos in

551
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: her universe, Killmonger, King of Wakanda, Party Thooruh Corrupted Strange,

552
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: and then they meet up with a post apocalyptic gnat

553
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: who has the the Arnomzola arrow. Let's talk about this.

554
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: I love that description. It really it really sums up

555
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: the chaos, the kind.

556
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: Of action I mean, it's an action pat Like, you know,

557
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: there's about eight minutes of setup in which we you know,

558
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: we get a really fun, fun scene of that's basically

559
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: Captain Carter in the opening intro from Captain America Winter Soldier,

560
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: like doing the strike on the Lemurian Star. Like, the

561
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: dialogue is the same, the whole thing is the same.

562
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: She's fighting Batrock the Leaper as the Watcher shows up

563
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, we need you to come with me,

564
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: and then we just basically get into it. We see

565
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: Killmonger as well, and then it's like they just get

566
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: into the action. Yeah.

567
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: He just he plucks them from all over and he's

568
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 3: just like paw, like you need to fight this Evil

569
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 3: Vision Ultron Combo.

570
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Now, I will say from an action point of view,

571
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: this felt like the most one of the most comic

572
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: bookie Marvel properties I've seen in terms of the way

573
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: like everybody's abilities work together, the kind of synergy between characters.

574
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: I thought the character choice was very interesting here.

575
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do think that that episode a where

576
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: we saw the Watcher and Infiniteultroun like punching each other

577
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: through the multiverse, that really was the key point where

578
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is like, this is comic bookie,

579
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: This is like what you can do with something based

580
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: on a comic book. I also think Disney was having

581
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: some fun. I think like Mustafar from Star Wars was

582
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: in there and they were punching through I saw an

583
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 3: area that like that the area, and then they kind

584
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: of definitely continued that on in the finale with this

585
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: really outrageous just like twenty five minutes of fighting and

586
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: crazy powers and unexpected team ups.

587
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about first we were talking looking in

588
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: the pre pro about the depiction of the stones here Ultron.

589
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: The way he uses them I think probably the best

590
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: and most accurate like use of the stone, like where

591
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: you really get a feel for how they work for

592
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: me is either their intros in the various Marvel movies

593
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: right where you're over the course of the movie that

594
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: introduces each Stone, you know, Powerstone and Guardians for instance,

595
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: you see what they each do, and then the fight

596
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: on Titan in Infinity War with Panos, I think was

597
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: a good display here. It's as we were talking about,

598
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of just like Ultron is very powerful period.

599
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think as well, Like I think something that

600
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: this show did that works on some levels and for

601
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: me makes it a little bit less impactful on others,

602
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 3: is like it's so heavily based on MCU and MCU

603
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: law that it almost kind of ignores unless it's bringing

604
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 3: new cool stuff in from the comics like Shimigorath, who

605
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: I love, but like a lot of times like it's

606
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 3: law is so based on the MCU that here they're

607
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: just kind of like, what are the Infinity Gems do?

608
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 3: They're powerful, and I'm like, no, I want to see

609
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 3: this infinite Ultron has the gems. He has this infinite

610
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 3: understanding of the universe and everything about it. He even

611
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: understands that the gems are different on each universe and

612
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 3: in each space but like the only thing we see

613
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 3: him do is just use the timestone like really quickly,

614
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I want to see I want to

615
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: see what these gems can do in this unbelievable cosmic

616
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 3: space that they've created, like rather than just making some people.

617
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: Same with kill Manger, he gets those gems and he's

618
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: just like cool, and I'm like, no, do something with them,

619
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 3: Like you could do it again with them.

620
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: You know.

621
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: With the with the kill Monger part, I could almost

622
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: I could argue it away in the sense that like

623
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: he just picked them up, you know what. I Like,

624
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 1: like there would be yes, your kind of theoretically your

625
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: consciousness is expanded to like every quarter of the of

626
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: the galaxy and the universe. But I could see there

627
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: being you know, a period in which you're like still

628
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: figuring them out.

629
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

630
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: And also if he's learning from what he saw from

631
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 3: Infant Ultron, he wouldn't really know how to use them.

632
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's actually that's actually really fair.

633
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: So that part was fine, but like Ultron should just

634
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: be really good. He has, by this point in his

635
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: life cycle, has like taken out multiple universes. I think

636
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: at this point.

637
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: He he somehow is able to utilize the power of

638
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 3: the stones to make himself like a giant cool galactus head,

639
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 3: and he's looking through different multiverses. It is the ultimate,

640
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: the ultimate quandary of any comic book type story, which

641
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: is the super overpowered villain against the relatively human and.

642
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: Relatable heroes should not lose, right exactly.

643
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 3: But the big kind of catch there is we have

644
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 3: like ultra overpowered, unbelievable, corrupted, crazy Strange.

645
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Strange because listen, if you've

646
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: been on the internet at all, you've seen these like

647
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: meme formats where it's like this Blue Team first Red Team,

648
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: or one's Gotta go, or which selection of five like

649
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: characters from comic book movies beats beats what other selection

650
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: of five characters? And the thing you have to realize

651
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: about doctor Strange is he's overpowered. Like a lot of

652
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: big fights that happen in comic books are like how

653
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: do we how do we get Strange on the sidelines

654
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: for long enough? And it makes sense that they wouldn't

655
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: just win. Doctor Strange at one point in this First

656
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: of all, he like creates a protective ward that saves

657
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: everyone's life a million times in the fight.

658
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 3: And makes like super cool like cosmic amah. So it's

659
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 3: like staguly pleasing, and it's also very useful.

660
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: Conjures a three headed dragon like he does all these things.

661
00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: He at one point, ultron like creates an explosion that

662
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: is like the size of the galaxy and Strange eats it.

663
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: He literally just is like I'm just gonna swallow this

664
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: and it does nothing to me. Strange is so fucking powerful,

665
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: and it is it is nuts how strong he is.

666
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's basically it's a really it's a really nice

667
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 3: bit of payoff. I feel like one of the things

668
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: about this show is it's sometimes I wasn't sure if

669
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: it was connected or it wasn't gonna be connected. But

670
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 3: this is a really good payoff for that episode four

671
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: where it's the and he imbibes all those weird monsters

672
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 3: and everything, and and I just I liked seeing his

673
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 3: wild powers here. There's like a nice not You see

674
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 3: him kind of become or at least inhabit the powers

675
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: of like a schumagor Ath esque tent called creature, and

676
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 3: he really that almost beats infinite John. And that's really

677
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 3: cool because in like the old stuff where they're first

678
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: introducing Shumagorath in Marvel premiere. Oh no, I think it's

679
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: actually Strange Tales Volume two fourteen. Schuma and Stranger like

680
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: facing down and is like, if you try and fight me,

681
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 3: you're gonna become me. And it's like, yeah, like that's

682
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: literally what happened to Strange. It like that was a

683
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 3: really cool nod. But sadly Schumer cannot ultimately be the

684
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 3: one thing to be him, so they obviously will have

685
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: to team up, which is the It's the point of

686
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: the Avengers, right or the Guardians of the Multibus. I.

687
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: I also love that the Strange tapped into Schumer gower

688
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: Ath's dimension, his demonic classic, a classic Strange move when

689
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, the fight's not going well, break the

690
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: glass on the you know, the emergency switch, and I

691
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: guess I'm gonna have to like tap into some demon

692
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: dimension or like drink the drink the vial of Zong

693
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: and become a demon as he does in like Planet Hulk,

694
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: which is a thing. The thing I love about it is,

695
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: you know Strange wants to do this, like yeah, he

696
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: loves power, he loves he loves it. He's he like

697
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: all day is in the you know, his sanctum, coming

698
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: up with reasons that he shouldn't tap into a demon

699
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: dimension or like drink the vial of zomb but now

700
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: he gets to do it. Yeah, so he he loves

701
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: to do shit like this. Of course it doesn't work,

702
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: and then Strange will spend the next like several story

703
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: arcs dealing with the fallout of I tapped into the

704
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: dimension of Schuma Goraz and now what do I do?

705
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: But I love that. I love that that happened. And yeah,

706
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: thattle scene was that, you know, it was shot really

707
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 1: well with we're constantly you know, focused on the soul

708
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: gem and it's like, oh, now it's kicking over here,

709
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 1: and now they can't get it, and now this person

710
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: is trying to get it. Yeah, that was really fun.

711
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 3: And I think that is something that I think is

712
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 3: kind of cool is if people have grown up on

713
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 3: the MCU, which like a lot of people have because

714
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 3: it's been going on for so long. Now this it

715
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 3: it's got its own set of easter eggs and references

716
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: that people who maybe haven't really gone into the comics

717
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 3: but love the MCU. Like when they were having that

718
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 3: big final fight, it definitely echoed the Battle of New York.

719
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 3: You know where they're going around, and you get to

720
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 3: see the different weapons, and you get that circle of

721
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 3: the kind of Dolly shot almost. I thought that was

722
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: really nice, kind of it's nice to look at what

723
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: came before, while also kind of making something that's it's

724
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 3: a little bit different.

725
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: I want to shout out the fun Star Wars easter

726
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: egg when when all Shan first shows up and drops

727
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: the mountain on everybody, and he does the all too

728
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: easy just straight out of you know, Empire shregs back

729
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: when Darth thinks he's taken out his son Luke, but

730
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: then he hasn't, and Luke leaps up into the ceiling.

731
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the morality of including some of these characters,

732
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: because there are some. I think there are a few

733
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: head scratchers, genocidal killmonger who listened, he took over Wakanda,

734
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: he killed Tony and killed and T'Challa many people. Obviously

735
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: is one of the smartest and most brilliant strategists that

736
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: we've seen him in, but I think perhaps a head scratcher.

737
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: And then of course active Nazi arnhim Zola again not

738
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: an X, not an active, still loves Nazis, still loves

739
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: the Nazi shit, likesibly doing the Nazi stuff. Or it's the.

740
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: Ultimate curse of the MCU being so tied to Hydra

741
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 3: Is in the comics Hydra Nazis and even if the

742
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 3: MCU doesn't want to deal with that, that's just how

743
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 3: it is. And so that that always kind of I'm like,

744
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 3: I'm I feel like, surely you could have hank him

745
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: Jarvis Bruce Banner's computer from when he was a kid

746
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 3: in the eighties and he coded something. I feel like, narratively,

747
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: there's other places you could go. But I also understand

748
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 3: that Animzolar is like so intricately connected to the MCU

749
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 3: at this point, so like I get why he's where

750
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 3: they went, but I wouldn't have gone there. And also

751
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 3: I just have to say, of course it was Black

752
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: Widow and Clint, like that's the decision.

753
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: That ye folks to me, you know, that's like, hey,

754
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 1: let's go to the founder. I will say that, like, listen,

755
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: I love Toby Jones. I think he's great. I love

756
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: the voice. I end up there are I spend a

757
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: silly part of my day almost every day doing an

758
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: Arnham Soola voice to myself just like, yes, I am, Oh,

759
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: this body is fantastic. Look at my glutes. It's has

760
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: been such a long times as I am, this feels

761
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: wonderful inside the drawn body.

762
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

763
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: I mean he really got to do that too. He

764
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: was like as soon as he was in there, I

765
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 3: was like, well done, guys. You guys made infinite infinite

766
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 3: on Iimzola, well done, good.

767
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: Good bye moms. Again it's fantastic. But as we were

768
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: talking about in the pre pro like, okay, you need

769
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: an AI because that's how you're gonna defeat. Is there

770
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: not a Jarvist in this world? Like can we not

771
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: ask Jarvis to do it?

772
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: We saw like we saw Sakarian armor Tony stock with Gomora,

773
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: and like, as to a pointed out in the preper like,

774
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 3: surely that means as a Javis if Tony exists, there

775
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 3: is a jobis.

776
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: Like that Friday Friday not doing anything like we can't

777
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: get we can't get Friday, and like, in fact, I

778
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: would love to know what Friday is up to in.

779
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: Chilling in a computer somebody like drinking some sea.

780
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure Friday would love to get in the game,

781
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm not sure that it needs to

782
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: be Zola. That said, here is the one way that

783
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 1: I can talk myself into involving active Nazi Arnam Zola

784
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: as well as genocidal Kilmonger in this I read it

785
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: as kind of like, uh, like a Lord of the Rings,

786
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: why can't we kill Gollum situation? Right? You spend you know,

787
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: the entire second book in most of the third being like, yeah,

788
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: just fucking kill this thing. It's he's going to betray you.

789
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: You could see it. You know it's gonna happen. Why

790
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: can we kill him? And you know, like to the

791
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: point where Gandal's like, well you never know the part

792
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: people gonna plan and you're like, Gandalf's shut up, like

793
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 1: let's go. I think that you can make a case

794
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: for it because if Strange and the Watcher know that,

795
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, and they say the Watcher knew everything kind

796
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: of knew like what was gonna happen. If the Watcher's

797
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 1: plan is ultimately to like lock you know, the villains

798
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: into a pocket dimension, and if the Watcher selected the

799
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: Guardians knowing that kill Monger, intoxicated by by power, unable

800
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: to resist the call of the Gems, that he would

801
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: pick them up, and then you would also have to

802
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: have an AI that would corrupt Ultron, making it be

803
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: Arnham and kill Monger, much like goll Those are two

804
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: characters that you don't feel bad about locking into a

805
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: pocket dimension forever because they are immoral kind of bad.

806
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 1: They're bad guys, they're villains. Whereas if it's like, okay,

807
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:18,919
Speaker 1: if Captain Carter and Like and Party Thor are are

808
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: the last two, I would you know, who are holding

809
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: down Ultron and the gems, and then we have to

810
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: lock everybody into a pocket man, I would feel bad

811
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: about that. Whereas these two they pick up the gems,

812
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: they're struggling forever, and then I lock them in the

813
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: pocket dimension. I throw away the key and no one

814
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 1: is like, oh does anybody feel bad about No? Zola

815
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: is an active Nazi, like, let's just get rid of

816
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: this is a terrible this is like the terrible people.

817
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: But I will say, from what we know about old

818
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: corrupt Strange Supreme, I do feel like giving two people

819
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: who are morally corrupt and who have the infinitey Gems

820
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: or a version of the Infinity Gems, and these like

821
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: super sick, almost like doctor Strange not a good person

822
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: to like.

823
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 3: Sit Strange Supreme power mad Strange Supreme probably like not

824
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: a good person to give them too.

825
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: I will say we we kind of like I did.

826
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: I did wonder if we were trusting corrupt Strange a

827
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: little bit too much, like he had very very recently

828
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: spent a long amount of time like in bibing a

829
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: lot of evil and just kind of like digesting it.

830
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 3: And ignoring everything the Watcher said. But now I guess

831
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 3: the idea is it's like a redemption arc, like he

832
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: wants to make up for it. But I feel like

833
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: that could go badly in the future because obviously this

834
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: I did feel like a lot of what was going

835
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: on here was kind of would we will potentially see it?

836
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: And season two it feels like, you know, so something

837
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 3: I thought they were gonna do. I just wanted, did

838
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: you so there's like six heroes, right. I definitely thought

839
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 3: at the end they were going to do like an

840
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 3: Infinity Watch thing where each of them got a gem.

841
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 3: That seemed like a really smart sim people solution was.

842
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: When they when the initial part of the plan was okay,

843
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: we got we get the soul Stone, and I thought

844
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: that's where it was going to go explain what the

845
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: Infinity Watch is.

846
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So after the events of Infinity War, the did

847
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: they decide that the best thing to do to keep

848
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 3: the stone safe is give them to each of these

849
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 3: different heroes throughout like the Marvel Universe, and it's Adam

850
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 3: Warlock in the Infinity Watch, but in because Adam Warlock

851
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 3: is more of a key player in the Infinity saga

852
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 3: than we saw in the MCU, which is interesting because

853
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 3: they definitely did tease him. And then Guardians the Galaxy.

854
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: I think I will be shocked if he is not

855
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: in Guardians three.

856
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 3: I think so, and I would be really excited to

857
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: see that, to see hit them introduce him at this point.

858
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: So, yeah, the weirdest characters of all time.

859
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think I thought that. I thought, yeah,

860
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: basically gold Jesus, So I definitely thought that was where

861
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: they were going to go with it. But you know what,

862
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,959
Speaker 3: keeping two people in like a tiny wed pocket dement

863
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: constantly fighting over this one version, that's fine, Sure, go

864
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 3: for it.

865
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: I wonder at what point do they come out of

866
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: it and be like wait, wait, wait, time out of

867
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 1: time out? Time are we? Where are we right now?

868
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: As we're still like, at what point do they do

869
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: they realize or do they just like fight literally forever before.

870
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 3: I do wonder if like we could see like a

871
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 3: season two or season three like Bottle episode that's just

872
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 3: those two like having a conversation about oh they will

873
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 3: get out right, you know that, or just like sitting

874
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 3: in there and like having a conversation. Maybe teaming up,

875
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 3: Maybe not, but I definitely could imagine that because that

876
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 3: was a big part of that Doctor Strange episode was

877
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 3: kind of the existential like crisis of it or being

878
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 3: trapped with yourself, but these two are just trapped with

879
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,959
Speaker 3: each other, which is actually probably much worse than being

880
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 3: trapped with yourself.

881
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 1: Obviously, a lot of overtones of like Age of Ultra.

882
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: I was watching this and thinking, well, you know, if

883
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: they ever try and adapt to kind of post apocalyptic

884
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,240
Speaker 1: Ultron world, they kind of can't do it now because

885
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: they've they've they've kind of done. This was basically Age

886
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: of Ultron minus Mutants minus Wolverine.

887
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 3: Yeah you know, I know, dude, I was thinking that

888
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: a lot a nice team, but needs more X Man, Like, yeah.

889
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 4: Well.

890
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: Could they not? I mean I found myself thinking this,

891
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: like and we as we've been sitting here wondering when

892
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: will they introduce them? When will they introduce them? I

893
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: obviously it feels like what if, as you noted, is

894
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: it's based on mcure, so until something happens at MCU,

895
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,479
Speaker 1: it kind of can't happen. And what if we can't

896
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: get it? What if this scenario based on characters that

897
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: haven't been introduced yet? But like, why not? Why couldn't

898
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: we see?

899
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 3: Seems like this.

900
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: Could be the world. Yeah, it seems like, yeah, why not?

901
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: Like could it not happen?

902
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: Imagine imagine if it when the Watcher had been one firstival.

903
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 3: I just need sense. I should have said it when

904
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 3: we first said the name, but whoa about when? It

905
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 3: was like when I saw the title and it was

906
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 3: if the Watcher broke his oath?

907
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 2: I was like, what if he didn't? That's what the

908
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: what if would actually be? What if he didn't? Because

909
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 2: he breaks his oath every fucking time. Every Watcher story

910
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 2: is just him breaking his oath. But if he was

911
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 2: going around breaking his oath, I was just like, imagine

912
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: if he'd just plucked a wolverine from somewhere, an old

913
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: man logan, you know what people would have lost lost

914
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 2: their darn minds, and I understand the MCU. Well, the

915
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 2: thing is right, so I would I was about to say, I.

916
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 3: Understand that MCU doesn't work like that, and there's five

917
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: ten years of planning and blah blah. But after the

918
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 3: end of Venom, I'm like, actually, that's just the mcu'

919
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: is messy. Now I'm like Tom Hardy, Venom is in

920
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 3: the MCU, bring in Wolverine, bringing Storm, bring in whoever else.

921
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's fine now, everything is everything.

922
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: As you noted, Figy is like the master of neatness.

923
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: He demands like efficiency and kind of like streamlining. So

924
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: they probably wouldn't have it, but it'd be amazing if

925
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: it if it did happen. What I will. I want

926
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: to bring up one kind of how does this work?

927
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: Which is in line with our conversation about like the gems.

928
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: So the initial plan was they're going to use the

929
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: Infinity Crusher, this kind of like grinding device to destroy

930
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: the gems that Ultron has. But then it turns out

931
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: it won't work because the Infinity Crusher is from a

932
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: different universe, different set of gems, doesn't work here. So

933
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: then why do Ultron's gems work at all where he is.

934
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't the logic behind that, I understand that

935
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 3: the narrative decision to introduce that easy solution and then

936
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 3: take it away like that's you you on that gut punch,

937
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 3: but it doesn't make sense. I guess the idea is

938
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 3: he has at some point in episode eight he kind

939
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 3: of mastered once he understood the Watcher was there, he

940
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: mastered the multiverse. So in that way, I suppose it's

941
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 3: like his own omnipience.

942
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: Like right, and it's like it's a master set of gems.

943
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 3: His power becomes I got. But then in that way,

944
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 3: I feel like no gem Crusher would have been able

945
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 3: to solve it, because that's the gems have almost taken

946
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 3: on a different role where they are the multiversal gems

947
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 3: rather than gems from you know, another universe.

948
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: One thing. First of all, I love the I love

949
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: Strangers time saving gambit to like drop all of Marvel

950
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: Zombies on the head of Ultron, But it was really

951
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 1: about setting up this convernation between zombie Wanda and Ultron

952
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: and then so she blasts him and then there's like

953
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: a moment of recognition but then nothing.

954
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense, Like we there is

955
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 3: literally an entire episode in this show, the Marvel Zombies

956
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 3: episode where we learn that after seeing Wonder Vision and

957
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 3: how Wonder and Visions love is kind of this twisted

958
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 3: like they'll do anything for each other. We see that

959
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 3: in an extreme version in What If, where Vision is

960
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 3: literally like filating T'Challa and the speed Wander zombie Wonder

961
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 3: and you're telling me that this zombiefied Wonder the most

962
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 3: powerful mutant superhero whatever word we're using in the world.

963
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 3: You're telling me she doesn't see her hunky Infinity Stone

964
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 3: wielding he does husband he looks.

965
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 5: Really cool, and also like she would recognize him like that,

966
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 5: And then Strangers just made the worst decision ever, because

967
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 5: then you have zombie mutant Wonder who can't control her

968
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 5: infinite powers and.

969
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 3: Literal infinite Ultron who has Vision's face and does still

970
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 3: have the Mindstone and come on, that that to me

971
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 3: is a that's that's a mistake.

972
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: That bumped me too. I was like, wait a second,

973
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 1: that's it, Like, what is her reaction here? There? Clearly

974
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: she recognizes him, does he know what the connection is?

975
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: M But it kind of also feels like that was

976
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: such a big bump that we're gonna they have to

977
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: explore that at some point, like that's is that happened

978
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: in the comics if you, if you like, turn a

979
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: page and it's like this recognition between two characters, and

980
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: then you turned it and then we back to like

981
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: some other fight in the a story. M hmm, A year,

982
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: two years, five years later, some point in time, some

983
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: creative team would be, Okay, we have to unpack what

984
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: that is because that was kind of huge.

985
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 3: I think so too, because also think about it, he

986
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: has the time stone, like there are things that could

987
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 3: happen here that would and obviously maybe, but Ultron knows everything.

988
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 3: Ifanoultron knows everything, and he is Vision and Altron together,

989
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 3: so I feel like that has to be there. And

990
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 3: I feel like it makes sense that Wanda recognizes him

991
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 3: because even Wander is so in love with Vision that

992
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 3: in the comics, even when he loses the thing that

993
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 3: made her love him, the personality Simon Williams, you know,

994
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 3: mind print, imprint or whatever is, she still wants white Vision.

995
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 3: She still wants Vision who is not Vision, you know.

996
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 3: So I feel like that connection is that Yeah, I

997
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 3: think if like you said, the fact they add that

998
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 3: moment of recognition that probably means we're gonna see maybe

999
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 3: season two will have like King Infinite Ultra on in

1000
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 3: like you know.

1001
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: Maybe Queen Zombie.

1002
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 3: Maybe she'll break those two out of the pocket dimension

1003
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 3: to try and re create Infinite Vision. But yeah, that

1004
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 3: was a moment. I was like, Oh, this is trouble.

1005
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: These are the things we are thinking about in a

1006
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: post whatef world. I'm excited to see what they do

1007
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: for season two.

1008
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1009
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: Up next the Omnibus. Welcome to another chapter in the

1010
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: Omnibus where lower analysis and understanding come together. This week,

1011
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: let's explore the origins and the ongoing cultural fascination with

1012
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: Spider Man Symbiete Suit and the introduction of that character

1013
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: along with Eddie Brock. Nineteen eighty four is Marvel Superheroes

1014
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: Secret Wars ushered in the era of the crossover of

1015
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: the twelve issue limited series, which influenced continuity across the company.

1016
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: Was the brainchild of then editor in chief Jim Shooter,

1017
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: a titanic and widely reviled figure who set an incredibly

1018
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: successful course for Marvel Comics from nineteen seventy eight to

1019
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: his ouster in nineteen eighty seven to four, reportedly being

1020
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: such a gigantic asshole that everyone hated him so much

1021
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: they burned him in effigy. Yes, they burned him in effigy.

1022
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 1: That's how much Jim Shooter was hated by his staff.

1023
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: Secret Wars told the story of the Beyonder, an immensely

1024
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: powerful cosmic entity who transports Earth's superheroes and supervillains to

1025
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: a battle world where they fight for the Beyonders. Entertainment,

1026
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: Secret Wars was not an inventive or emotionally resonant story.

1027
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: It was essentially an excuse to get all of Marvel's

1028
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: characters and the same story for the purpose of selling

1029
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: Mattel action figures. In other words, it was as good

1030
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 1: as it needed to be to do its job, and

1031
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: that job it did very, very well through the roof.

1032
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: Artist and writer John Byrne told Sean how in Marvel

1033
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: Comics The Untold Story, the financial windfall was so great

1034
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: that Marvel and DC, who sales were kind of weak

1035
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: at the time, briefly amazingly talked about a licensing deal

1036
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: which would allow the House that Stand Built to publish Superman, Batman,

1037
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman, Green Lancer, New Teen Titans Legion of Superheroes,

1038
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: the JLA that would have been crazy. Besides making crossover

1039
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: events part of the regular cadence of superhero storytelling, Secret

1040
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: Wars's main contribution is unquestionably Spider Man's black costume, later

1041
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: to be revealed to be a sentient parasitic creature who

1042
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: would go on to become, along with the journalist Eddie Brock,

1043
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: the villain slash anti hero Venom. Now the Symbiote actually

1044
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: has two first appearances. That the alien first hit newstands

1045
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: in May nineteen eighty four is The Amazing Spider Man

1046
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,479
Speaker 1: Number two fifty two, which told the story of Peter

1047
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: Parker's returned to Earth in his new Black suit after

1048
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: the events of Secret Wars. But Secret Wars was an

1049
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: ongoing event at that time, and so it wasn't until

1050
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: months later, in the pages of December nineteen eighty four

1051
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: Secret Wars number eight, that the audience learned the story

1052
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: of how Peter first obtained his new costume, and that

1053
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: is the Symbiote's official first canonical appearance. The rumors are

1054
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: true introducing the new Spider Man. Read the cover of

1055
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: The Amazing Spider Man number two fifty two, which shows

1056
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: Peter in his new black suit with white trim swinging

1057
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: through the streets of Manhattan with a teenager under each

1058
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: arm that he's rescuing. The issue is a pretty boring

1059
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: bottle episode about Peter literally getting back into the swing

1060
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 1: of New York City after his ordeal on Battle World.

1061
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: We get a glimpse in these pages to the costume's

1062
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: really creepy but kind of cool new abilities, as well

1063
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: as various hints to the costume's actual nature. Peter, for instance,

1064
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 1: retrieves his walin and keys from the place he hid

1065
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: them in Central Park before he went to Battle World. Quote. Instantly,

1066
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: reacting to Spider Man's unspoken command, his costume suddenly opens

1067
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: a wide seam to receive his keys and wallet. No

1068
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: sooner does he place them within it than it immediately

1069
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: reseals itself end quote. Later, after arriving at his apartment,

1070
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: the suit morphs into casual wear kind of Steve jobsy

1071
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: and turtleneck and black jeans. When Peter wakes in the

1072
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,919
Speaker 1: middle of the night thinking about how nice it would

1073
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: be to maybe do some late night web slinging, the

1074
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: costume SLINKs from its resting place on the chair and

1075
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: just flows over his body, immediately suiting him up. Months later,

1076
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: in Secret Wars eight, readers get to see how Peter

1077
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: and the Suit came to meet Spider Man. In a

1078
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: collection of heroes including Hulk, Thor, Monica Rambeau, Captain Marvel,

1079
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: Hawkeye and others are storming Doctor Doom's Doom base, and

1080
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: in the course of this battle they take out various supervillains,

1081
00:59:54,880 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: including the recently introduced Titania, who is supers basically she's very,

1082
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 1: very strong, and the long running Avengers Foil Ultron. After

1083
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: the fight, Peter's costume is just in shreds, is absolutely

1084
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: in tatters. He runs into Hulk and Thor and Peter's like, Thor,

1085
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: your cape is like brand new? What the hell? And

1086
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: Hulk and Thor tell Peter about this machine in the

1087
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: Doom Base that produces clothing by reading a person's thoughts.

1088
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: Peter finds a machine. He places his head under this

1089
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: thing that looks like a lamp. Now. A few issues earlier,

1090
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: in Secret Wars six and seven, Julia Carpenter, who is

1091
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: that era of Spider Woman, made her debut, and she

1092
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: was wearing an all black costume with white detailing very

1093
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 1: similar to the black suit that we're about to see.

1094
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: And so Peter, influenced by Spider Woman's fit, is thinking

1095
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: about a new costume, and a black globule about the

1096
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: size of a billiard ball appears in front of him,

1097
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: and the substance immediately covers his body and voila, we

1098
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: have the black suit now. The idea for the black

1099
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: costume came from a fan, Randy Schuler, back in the

1100
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: day in the early eighties, Marvel ran a competition for

1101
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: aspiring writers and artists. Being a lifelong Spidy fan with

1102
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: delusions of comic grandeur, I took a stab at a

1103
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: story idea, Shuller states in a two thousand and seven

1104
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: article for Comic Book Resources, Randy's pitch involves a new

1105
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: stealth costume, black and color, which would be manufactured by

1106
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: Reid Richards out of unstable molecules.

1107
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 4: Now.

1108
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: A few months later, in August nineteen eighty two, Jim Shooter,

1109
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: the then editor in chief, wrote back, I want to

1110
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: buy it. That's his opening. His opening statement is I

1111
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: want to buy it. No, Hello, how you doing? Please

1112
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: demet you. I want to buy it. Jim Shooter getting

1113
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: right to the point we'll pay two hundred and twenty

1114
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: dollars enclosed find a work for hire agreement and a voucher.

1115
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: That's about six hundred dollars in today's money. Not exactly

1116
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: a kingly fucking sum, thanks Jim Shooter, but probably big

1117
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: money for a kid who's just you know, pitched Marvel cold.

1118
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: The agreement gave Randy the opportunity to try and write

1119
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: the script for this story.

1120
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 6: Now.

1121
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: Randy ended up submitting a couple of versions of drafts,

1122
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: but in the end it just didn't work out. Regardless,

1123
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: I had no regrets. As a true blue Spider fan,

1124
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: this was a very cool moment in my life. Randy wrote.

1125
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: Spider Man's new look, though minimalistic in design, was a

1126
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: huge change and changed generations in the making. Spider Man's costume.

1127
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: A few tweaks aside, the most notable being the elimination

1128
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 1: of Spidey's like underarm web wings after a couple of

1129
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: years had been basically the same since the character's debut

1130
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two, and so the reaction to this

1131
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: change was incredibly emotional. You've got to be kidding me,

1132
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: said Ron Friends, Spider Man's artist at the time. I

1133
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: waited all my life since the age of eight to

1134
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 1: draw Spider Man, and now he's got a new suit. Meanwhile,

1135
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: Marvel's marketing department didn't like it because they probably not

1136
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: unfairly thought it would confuse licensees and hurt spot Sider

1137
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 1: Man's marketability. At the time, Marvel made a lot of

1138
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 1: money putting its characters onto lunchboxes, onto toy cars, on

1139
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: to posters, et cetera. And you know, this is in

1140
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: the mid eighties early eighties. We don't have the kind

1141
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: of media ecosystem that we have today where these characters

1142
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: are everywhere and you can find them like at the

1143
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: click of a mouse. You know, changing the look of

1144
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: an iconic character is no small thing to do. So meanwhile,

1145
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: there was also the fan response, and to quote another

1146
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: podcast bit, the fans hated it. They hated it, and

1147
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,919
Speaker 1: they knew the change was coming. The October nineteen eighty

1148
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,920
Speaker 1: three issue of The Comics Journal, a trade magazine kind

1149
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: of akin to a you know, comics version of Variety

1150
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: or The Hollywood Reporter, contained a blurb about Marvel's upcoming

1151
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: secret war storyline in its news watch section, and below

1152
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 1: a full body profile illustration of Spider Man and the

1153
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: new costume. The article reads, in part quote some of

1154
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: the plan changes include Spider Man trading in his costume

1155
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: for a black and red one. Other industry publications around

1156
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: the same time carried similar stories. Thus, the cover text

1157
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: from Amazing Spider Man two vv two, the Rumors are

1158
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: True was a reference to the fact that fans had

1159
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: kind of known this was going to happen, and man,

1160
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: the fans fucking hated it. They inundated Marvel with hate mail.

1161
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: Faced with a furious reaction from inside and outside the company,

1162
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: Shooter chickened out. He got cold feet. He wanted to

1163
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: pull the costume, like basically as soon as it was

1164
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: introduced by you know, we introduced a black costume two

1165
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: y two. It's off of Peter by two vv three.

1166
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: He didn't want to do it, but in the end,

1167
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: Marvel editor Tom DeFalco convinced Shooter to keep the symbiote

1168
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 1: at least until the creature made its canonical debut in

1169
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: Secret Wars number eight, because it would just be super

1170
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: weird if later we introduced this thing. But fans already

1171
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: know that Peter is not going to wear it, So

1172
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: after that the plan was okay. After Secret Wars eight,

1173
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: we just get rid of it at the earliest convenience. Now,

1174
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: over the next several issues of Amazing Spider Man, after

1175
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: the introduction of the symbiote, something weird happens. Fans learned

1176
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: that the new costume was in fact a living creature,

1177
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: a parasitic alien symbiote. They learned that at night, as

1178
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: Peter slept, the creature would take his body out for

1179
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 1: test drives swinging over the rooftops. Peter in the daytime

1180
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 1: is becoming progressively more exhausted. He's suffering from nightmares in

1181
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 1: which his old suit is fighting his Black Suit over

1182
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: control of him. And so an Amazing Spider Man two

1183
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: fifty eight read riches of the Fantastic Four uses a

1184
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: sonic blaster to cleave the symbiote off of Peter. Peter

1185
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: leaves the Baxter billing like in a Fantastic Four uniform

1186
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: of a brown paper bag over his head, and Reid

1187
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: keeps the symbiote for further study. And there we have

1188
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: it right, The Jim Shooter has accomplished the skull. The

1189
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 1: Black Suit is off of Peter. By an Amazing Spider

1190
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: Man two fifty nine, Peter is back in his original

1191
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: blue and red costume, with the words the original is

1192
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: back on the cover. But the weird thing about those

1193
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: issues was, over the course of them, fans fell in

1194
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,360
Speaker 1: love with the Black Suit. They loved it, and they

1195
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: could tell because sales were going up. Sales of Amazing

1196
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: Spider Man were just climbing and climbing and climbing. Additionally,

1197
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 1: the secondary market was also popping with people looking to

1198
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: collect that first appearance of the Black Suit. Now, over

1199
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 1: the course of the nineteen seventies, in pop culture, anti

1200
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: heroes and films like Dirty Harry, French Connection, Taxi Driver,

1201
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: Death Wish, Dog Day Afternoon, The Godfather Won into First

1202
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: Blood from the eighties in which violent protagonists operate in

1203
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: these kind of like moral shades of gray, were becoming

1204
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 1: increasingly popular. Meanwhile, Marvel Comics was reaching its third decade

1205
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: of operation as its modern incarnation like post timely incarnation,

1206
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 1: which we would date to the introduction of the Fantastic

1207
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: Four essentially, and so its fan base was getting older

1208
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 1: and their chases were maturing as well, and that was

1209
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: reflected in the work of Frank Miller, his kind of

1210
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: like noirish work with daredevil, Peter David's Incredible Hulk stories

1211
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: in which the Hulk reverts to his gray form and

1212
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: becomes this like Vegas area mobster known as Joe fix It.

1213
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: Also the skyrocketing popularity of Wolverine, who just like literally

1214
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: cuts people up with his claws, and the increasing popularity

1215
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: of Frank Castle, the murderous vigilante known as the Punisher.

1216
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: All of these things reflected that cultural shift. The Comics

1217
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: Code Authority, an industry group created in nineteen fifty four

1218
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: to avoid governmental regulation by ensuring comics weren't overly violent, sexual,

1219
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: or immoral, was beginning to lose its grip, at least

1220
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: on the violent aspect of that kind of three legged

1221
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: stool now, because you know, at the time, Shooter was

1222
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: enforcing a strict no gaze policy, though a few creative stories,

1223
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: particularly Captain America at number two sixty eight by J. M.

1224
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,959
Speaker 1: Dematis and Mike Zech, managed to get through. Now, Peter

1225
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: Parker was never going to be an anti hero, right,

1226
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 1: He was never going to decapitate people. He was never

1227
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: going to gun down foes and throw them off the

1228
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: top of buildings. But wrapping him in all blacks certainly

1229
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: made him look more of a badass, and so the

1230
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: suit had to be saved. In February nineteen eighty five,

1231
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: is Peter Parker The Spectacular spider Man. Spider Man's other

1232
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 1: monthly ongoing series, black Cat, Peter's off again, on again

1233
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: love interest, knits him another costume that looks just like

1234
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: the Black Suit. How did he manage to escape from

1235
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 1: Fantastic four headquarters? Spider Man says, silly, this isn't your

1236
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: real alien costume. Black Cat says to him, this is

1237
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: just an ordinarily everyday cloth version of it. I sewed

1238
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 1: it myself. It's so much sexier than your old red

1239
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: and blue long John's. Now. Spider Man would spend the

1240
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 1: next few years switching from his red suit to his

1241
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 1: black suit, going back and forth. Now. The first appearance

1242
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 1: of the Symbiote and Eddie Bracas Venom came in nineteen

1243
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 1: eighty eights The Amazing Spider Man Number three hundred writer

1244
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: David mclaney, Who's Demon in a Bottle storyline Forever Altered

1245
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: Tony Stark originally intended Venom to be a woman who

1246
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: blames Spider Man for the deaths of her husband and baby.

1247
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: Mclaney included teasers in nineteen eighty Web of Spider Man

1248
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: eighteen and nineteen eighty seven's Web spider Man Num. Twenty four,

1249
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: the third ongoing Spider Man title of the eighties that

1250
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: replaced Marvel's Team Up title, and that was supposed to

1251
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: set up the eventual reveal of this female venom. A

1252
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: hand pushes Peter in front of the subway train and

1253
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't trigger his spider sense, which I thought was key.

1254
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: Mclaney told Comic Crusaders dot Com in twenty seventeen editor

1255
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: Jim Salakrap want to do something special for issue three

1256
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 1: hundred of Amazing, So I said, Okay, I've got this character.

1257
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 1: He liked the idea, but he didn't think readers would

1258
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: accept a woman standing toe with Spider Man. Folks. It

1259
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: was nineteen eighty eight. I digress, continuing the quote. So

1260
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: I came up with the Eddie Brock character and his

1261
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: background and motivation, and that became Venom. So Eddie Brock,

1262
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: as we meet him in Amazing Spider Man three hundred,

1263
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 1: is a workout freak and a former Terrible journalist. Eddie

1264
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: describes himself as this is my favorite bit of this comic.

1265
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: He describes himself as solid at journalism quote solid, as

1266
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 1: if he was talking about like his acumen at playing pool,

1267
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: not like a vital mechanism of a free society anyway.

1268
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: Eddie's last story for The Daily Globe was a multi

1269
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: part interview with a mentally ill man named Emil Greg.

1270
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: Mister Greg believes himself to be the psychopathic murderer of

1271
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 1: the Senator, and Brock makes the pretty solid decision to

1272
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: just like run with this without like apparently checking it out,

1273
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: protecting mister Greg's identity through my rights under the First Amendment.

1274
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: I told his story incisively and compassionately, says Brock during

1275
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: his classic gotam right where I want him villain monologue. Unfortunately,

1276
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, people I think fairly thought it was pretty

1277
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 1: fucked up of Eddie Brock in the Daily Globe to

1278
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: give a platform to a serial killer while also protecting

1279
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: his identity. The police insisted that I reveal my source

1280
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: so that they could stop the murders. Under the advice

1281
01:10:55,240 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: of counsel, I finally wrote my masterpiece, announcing Greg is

1282
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: the sinator, says Eddie Brock, under the advice of council. Oh, Eddie,

1283
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 1: you idiot. Less than two hours later, as Eddie tells

1284
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: the story, the masterpiece was undone because Peter Parker did

1285
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 1: some basic factchecking, was like, hey, that's not the Siniator,

1286
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: that's just like a mentally ill gentleman. The Globe fired Brock.

1287
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 1: Good what about Brock's editor? No word on that, and

1288
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 1: he was forced to scrape out a living writing quote

1289
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 1: venomous celebrity exposs and I was kidnapped by Alien's drivel.

1290
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: Sounds like a good gig, honestly. He took all the

1291
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: money he had, moved to the Bronx, which in nineteen

1292
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 1: eighties pop culture communicated as a not very complex code

1293
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: for Eddie. Moved to a bad neighborhood. He turned his

1294
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: whole apartment into a gym, lifted weights all the time,

1295
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: and dreamed of killing Spider Man as he's like doing curls. Eventually,

1296
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: unable to cope, he decides to end his life. He

1297
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 1: goes to a church, and there the Symbiote finds him,

1298
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: drawn by he and Brock's shared hatred of Spider Man,

1299
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,760
Speaker 1: and venom is born. The Amazing Spider Man number three

1300
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 1: hundred was artist Todd McFarlane's third issue on the title,

1301
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: and it's kind of impossible to separate the popularity of

1302
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 1: the symbiote venom, and it's very sorry for this spawn

1303
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: from the rocket ship ascendancy of Todd McFarlane as an

1304
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 1: artist and creator the artists work in Amazing Spider Man

1305
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: hit comics like a jolt of electricity. He along with Robleifeld,

1306
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: were just like one of the most exciting young artists

1307
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: working at the time, and his spidy leaped off the page.

1308
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: Legs splayed, Spider like, swinging from like intricately detailed webs,

1309
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: less lauded, but just as important as the dynamic character

1310
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: poses with McFarlane's contemporary touch on Peter and the people

1311
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: in Amazing Spider Man, Peter, as McFarlane rendered him, had

1312
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 1: a kind of like shaggy mullet, wore leather jacket and jeans.

1313
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: Marriage Jane had this kind of like layered teased up hair,

1314
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 1: big shouldered tunics, slouchy belt looks. They looked like people

1315
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 1: who knew that they were in the year nineteen eighty eight,

1316
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:14,639
Speaker 1: whereas under the touch of previous artists, you know, Spider

1317
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: Man and Peter Parker looked like he literally was just

1318
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: like time traveled from nineteen sixty three, McFarlane's Venom was

1319
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 1: a muscle bound figure with horror elements, gaping mouth, lined

1320
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 1: with these shark like teeth, thick lapping tongue that gave

1321
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 1: the character a terrifying presence, which along with that muscle

1322
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,879
Speaker 1: bound look which the eighties going into the mid nineties

1323
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 1: was the period of Schwarzenegger and Jean Claude van Dam

1324
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,799
Speaker 1: and Sylvester Stallone, these kind of like muscle bound action figures,

1325
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: and so this look with the horror elements was perfect

1326
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: for an anti hero. McFarlane, like Ron friends before him,

1327
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: was not a fan of the black costume. Talking to

1328
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: the YouTube channel Comic Tom one oh one in March

1329
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, McFarland described his thinking of the symbiote

1330
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: as an artist in his twenties as it's not cool man.

1331
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: McFarlin says he told Shooter he would only come on

1332
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: Amazing Spider Man if Spidey got to go back to

1333
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: the red and blue costume. So Venom then was a

1334
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: kind of compromise, a way to keep the increasingly popular

1335
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: black suit in the mix quote David mclady comes up

1336
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 1: with a way to basically use the costume another way

1337
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: they needed a visual. I created the visual. I've told

1338
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 1: people Issue three hundred isn't the first appearance of Venom.

1339
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: To me, Issue three hundred is the how do we

1340
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,679
Speaker 1: get that damn black costume off of Peter Parker issue

1341
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 1: and that he did. Indeed, Welcome to the Hive Mind,

1342
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: where we dive deeper into specific topics with the help

1343
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 1: of guest panelists joining us today X Ray Vision is

1344
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,799
Speaker 1: please to welcome A. C. Bradley, head writer of Marvels

1345
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: What If N series director Brian Andrews. Welcome to the show. Hello,

1346
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: congratulations on a super fun season with a show like

1347
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 1: What If based on you know, a comic book series

1348
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:12,560
Speaker 1: that was like just unbounded by anything but imagination. What

1349
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: what kind of rules did you put on yourselves as

1350
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 1: you were as you were accepting pitches or coming up

1351
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: with story or developing story? Are the rules?

1352
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 6: Well? Yeah? Funny? Like well, early on it we just

1353
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 6: the one quote unquote rule was it was all spinning

1354
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 6: off the Marvel cinematic universe. It wasn't going to be

1355
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 6: based on the comics or any of that type of stuff,

1356
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 6: because you know, we wanted to do what people were

1357
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 6: familiar with. It just came from Kevin and Brad. They

1358
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 6: just knew it's just like no, no, no, we don't need

1359
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:43,720
Speaker 6: only the stuff that was in the movies, and we

1360
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 6: can't introduce anyone that hasn't been introduced in the movie.

1361
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 6: So that was kind of like quote unquote a rule.

1362
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 6: Other than that, it just whatever was excited us and

1363
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 6: the you know, when we got together to come up

1364
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 6: with ideas, it was just fringing open. We're just nerding

1365
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 6: out coming up with all the crazy, but but with

1366
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 6: not get with those guardrails.

1367
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 4: For me, and when I went into pitch for the job,

1368
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 4: I actually created a small document of like, here's the

1369
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 4: roles of the show, and there was like I think

1370
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 4: two three big ones. One was we can't let every

1371
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,720
Speaker 4: episode turn into a team up that's going to be

1372
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 4: our finale. We're going to keep these characters focused, keep

1373
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 4: them close on one or two characters, hopefully unusual combinations.

1374
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 4: The second role flowing from that was we need to

1375
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 4: say true to who these characters are. We've now grown up,

1376
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 4: grown up with them, either from the comics or from

1377
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:39,799
Speaker 4: watching the movies. If we're going to do an episode

1378
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 4: where thor destroys the planet. It needs to make sense

1379
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 4: with who he is as a character, and in the NCU,

1380
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,639
Speaker 4: Thor has already been through a gauntlet of tragedy and pain,

1381
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 4: and at the end of it, he's still a very

1382
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 4: good man. He's still worthy. So I was like, I'm

1383
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:56,320
Speaker 4: not going to make it that he's like in a

1384
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 4: bad mood and he comes down to destroy Paris. He's

1385
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 4: a very mood and does it by accident, because that

1386
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 4: I can see. I can see a world where Thor, Yeah,

1387
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 4: I just wants to have a good time. And I

1388
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 4: believe the third rule was the Watcher is the audience.

1389
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:17,040
Speaker 4: So every time we're talking about the Watcher, it's him

1390
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 4: growing to love these characters, love these stories, and having

1391
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 4: them affect him over the course of nine to ten episodes.

1392
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 4: So it's kind of just kind of like putting guardrails

1393
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 4: up for ourselves, the storytellers, to make sure that, like Fury,

1394
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 4: we keep our eye in the big picture.

1395
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have a craziest pitch that didn't get

1396
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:43,799
Speaker 1: made that you could tell us without burning a future idea?

1397
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 4: Well, everyone seems to love that. President Rogers cameo in

1398
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 4: episode eight and there was very briefly, me and Matt

1399
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 4: Chauncey are huge Storkin fans, and we did spend a

1400
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 4: lunch eating poke bowls in the Disney cafeteria because we

1401
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 4: never missed Poke Bowl Day and talking about what about

1402
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:11,679
Speaker 4: a West Wing Marvel mashup and what would the Rogers

1403
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:15,800
Speaker 4: administration look like? But doesn't really lend itself to a

1404
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 4: lot of action. It's a very talky, idealistic episodes. But

1405
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 4: if anyone out there every wants to create a superhero

1406
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 4: in the West Wing show, we've got We've got.

1407
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,240
Speaker 6: Notes Yilia No, I think there's probably way they get

1408
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 6: some action in there. It's a fun idea, it's great

1409
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 6: and just being able to see more of that and

1410
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 6: seeing who has his cabinet, I mean it could be

1411
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 6: could Yeah, it could be fun. It's a fun idea.

1412
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:51,719
Speaker 1: Obviously, an important component of this series is the animation,

1413
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 1: the animation style. How did you arrive at at the

1414
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 1: style that the series is presented and the look and

1415
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 1: feel of it.

1416
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 6: Kind of there was early talks that of possibly doing

1417
01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 6: every single episode a completely different style, but when Brad

1418
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 6: and I were first meeting about it, but we kind

1419
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 6: of shot that down relatively quickly, because you know, it

1420
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 6: can get pricing and expensive to produce. But also we're

1421
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 6: riffing off the cinematic universe, and it doesn't make sense

1422
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:25,040
Speaker 6: to have everything designed wacky different for each episode if

1423
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 6: it's trying to be like you know what I mean,

1424
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 6: because it's supposed to be Canon's part of the cent

1425
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 6: in connected with Cinematic Rouver. So it's like, oh, here

1426
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 6: are these stories. They are simply being told to you

1427
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:38,240
Speaker 6: in this style. Is so so therefore it's the equivalent

1428
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 6: of the live action so and so Therefore I wanted

1429
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 6: to shoot it as if we were shooting at live action.

1430
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 6: I wanted to play with lensing, depth of field, all

1431
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 6: that stuff, a because I love it, but also be

1432
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:49,720
Speaker 6: because I want to see more of that inanimation. And

1433
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 6: then for the art style, I zeroed in on J. C.

1434
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 6: Lindecker and some of the illustrators of you know, the

1435
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 6: early twentieth century because I love that look. I love

1436
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 6: jaz Linebecker work, and Hollywood's been chasing it for for like,

1437
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 6: you know, one hundred years, you know, with various levels

1438
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 6: of success. You know, and Ryan Menerding who designs like

1439
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 6: the Marvel Universe and he's just, you know, a god.

1440
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,479
Speaker 6: He also loves Jace Lindecker to death and so does

1441
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 6: like our productions on are Paul is saying, he's also

1442
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 6: amazing and so so the characters were going to be

1443
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 6: Jace Lindecker, but then we needed a background art style

1444
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 6: to have them blend, and so we still pulled from

1445
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 6: the American illustrats, but we had to get a little

1446
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 6: bit more graphic just to map some of the line

1447
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:34,280
Speaker 6: work that we're into. So it's kind of like a

1448
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 6: confluence of a couple of different things and then with

1449
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 6: Paul and Ryan working together able to get something that

1450
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:43,799
Speaker 6: kind of worked that we wanted to, but it was Bailey.

1451
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:46,040
Speaker 6: It was just me wanting to I want to see

1452
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 6: it this way and showing it to the trio and

1453
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 6: basically put up the first image of Jason Lindecker stuff

1454
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 6: and Kevin was like, if it looks like this, I mean,

1455
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 6: we're basically done. In the meeting, We're good. We're good,

1456
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 6: you know. So then the rest of those wassible nerding

1457
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 6: out about the art. He was he was in full

1458
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 6: full steam.

1459
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 1: So you mentioned the anthology aspect, How soon a seed

1460
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: did you? Did you all hit on there being a

1461
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 1: team up kind of framework of this, and.

1462
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 4: I think I lied a lot in some of my

1463
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 4: interviews earlier in the season. So pretty much in day

1464
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 4: two we knew we wanted to do a team up.

1465
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:31,639
Speaker 4: I wanted to do a team up on my original pitch.

1466
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 4: It came a different way, but you know, this is

1467
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 4: the fun of storytelling is that you find different ways

1468
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:39,600
Speaker 4: to tell stories. And we knew that we wanted the

1469
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 4: Watcher to break his oath, just like in the com books,

1470
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 4: he says no, no, no, no no, and then he's like, oh,

1471
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 4: I can't possibly have that second piece of cake.

1472
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 3: I can't, I can't all let's go.

1473
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 4: Straight to my hips give it to me. So we

1474
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 4: just had to find a villain worthy of the Watcher

1475
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 4: and I love Ultron and Age of Ultron was great,

1476
01:21:58,160 --> 01:21:59,680
Speaker 4: but we felt like there was more we could do

1477
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 4: with him, and the comic books, he's such a much

1478
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 4: more bitter presence. And luckily because Phase four has now

1479
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 4: hit Ultron mis Anfionity Gauntlet that's a pretty horrific and

1480
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 4: devastating force to be reckoned with, and it gave us

1481
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 4: a reason for the Watcher to break his oath as

1482
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 4: we were writing the episodes, Captain Carter was always a favorite.

1483
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 4: Star Lord T'Challa definitely wanted to revisit doctor Strange in

1484
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 4: a new and unusual way that didn't so much redeem him,

1485
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 4: but showed again another side of him in the lessons

1486
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 4: he learned in his story. We knew we want to

1487
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 4: use Killmonger, but again, he's not the typical hero or villain.

1488
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 4: How would he fit into the Watcher's plan. So it

1489
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 4: was a mixture of Okay, who has been our favorites

1490
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 4: of these journey of creating into the show, and also

1491
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 4: basically Bergen was on me to take a step back

1492
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 4: and figure out what would the Watcher's plan be and

1493
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,599
Speaker 4: how would these different elements come into play. And luckily,

1494
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,840
Speaker 4: I mean, the show has been freaking amazing. I think

1495
01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 4: I shouldn't probably say that about my own shop, but

1496
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 4: it's been so much fun. And I think Brian agrees

1497
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:06,040
Speaker 4: to play with these characters like zombie Wanda within the

1498
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 4: scripts and she was cool, but when you saw her

1499
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 4: on boards and then when you saw her and finished animation,

1500
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,200
Speaker 4: she kind of blew your mind. I was like, Okay,

1501
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:16,080
Speaker 4: she has to come back. She's the teen Rex in

1502
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 4: Jurassic Park. She needs to come back in the finale,

1503
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 4: and we got to do her some justice. So it

1504
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 4: was kind of like, you know, just taking your cherry,

1505
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 4: picking your favorite parts and playing with the toys. Again.

1506
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:34,640
Speaker 1: You mentioned zombie Wanda. That's the moment of recognition that

1507
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: she has when she's facing off with Ultron seemed very weighty.

1508
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:45,720
Speaker 1: Are there moments like that that are gonna that we're

1509
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 1: going to revisit in a season two what if? Or

1510
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: just later down the line?

1511
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 6: She who knows? I think, you know, since the stuff

1512
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 6: exists now, who knows? Like if we're so fortunate to

1513
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:02,559
Speaker 6: do many many episodes or many many seasons, there could

1514
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 6: be an opportunity where there's like a what if off

1515
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,639
Speaker 6: of what if? Who knows? You know what I mean,

1516
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 6: Like I I it's too early to tell. But right

1517
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:16,960
Speaker 6: now it's just the Skuy's disguise the limit, So who knows?

1518
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 6: You know? It could be cool. I think, you know,

1519
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 6: because of the tag at the end of the finale,

1520
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 6: you know, one could wager that we might see someone again.

1521
01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:33,000
Speaker 4: Maybe the beauty of the Marvel universe is that it

1522
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:37,280
Speaker 4: keeps expanding. Yeah, and so there's always new characters new

1523
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 4: stories to tell in season two. I mean, as much

1524
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 4: as I love Party Thor I think I want to

1525
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 4: play in Shang Shei for a while. Come on, Love, like,

1526
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 4: that's an amazing role. Let's go play there.

1527
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 1: I love the Party Thor episode as a as a

1528
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:58,200
Speaker 1: lifelong comics fan, especially Marvel Comics. These heroes have been

1529
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,759
Speaker 1: through so much, so I always loved the bottle issues

1530
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 1: where it's like the Avengers just hanging out at a

1531
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 1: barbecue or you know, you know, playing baseball or something

1532
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 1: like that. Is there a particular favorite moment or episode

1533
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 1: or even just seeing that you have from the series.

1534
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 4: I have a special love for Darcy Lewis, so early

1535
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:26,600
Speaker 4: on in figuring out Party Thor, we realized that and

1536
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 4: me with a beer in me and Darcy Lewis are

1537
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 4: kind of the same, making the dirty joke being silly.

1538
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 4: So when it came to doing an animation, we'll do

1539
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 4: temp voices. We'll do scratch voices before the actual like

1540
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 4: Cat Stennings or Paul Bettany or Chris Sundsworth come in

1541
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 4: just to test out lines and jokes against the storyboard.

1542
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 4: I had a couple of drinks with the editors and

1543
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 4: some of the production crew at lunch and recorded the

1544
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 4: original Darcy Scratch, which was so much fun and actually

1545
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 4: a lot of her lines were ad libs by me

1546
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 4: and the crew while hanging out in the edit bay

1547
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 4: at four o'clock on a Friday afternoon and breaking Disney

1548
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:08,760
Speaker 4: rules of the alcohol. Ryan, you weren't there, and you

1549
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:10,640
Speaker 4: were very well. You were very much missed because we

1550
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 4: cracked up in the whiskey.

1551
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 6: I know, I totally missed out. I'm so sorry.

1552
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a kind of I didn't. I'm not

1553
01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 4: very good actress, so it was kind of goading from

1554
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 4: the editors, who are very good friends of mine. And

1555
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 4: then I love Howard the Duck.

1556
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:27,160
Speaker 1: Yes, who doesn't.

1557
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's so hilarious because Ashley did such a great

1558
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 6: job with it too. And I really think that, you know,

1559
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,719
Speaker 6: Cat Dennings and or Darcy Lewis is like Ashley's spirit

1560
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 6: animal when it came time when it came time to

1561
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 6: record Cat Dnnings, who's Who's just a gem. She's a

1562
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 6: magical human being and so sweet and adorable and really funny.

1563
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 6: She loved the material, loved all the stuff, and she

1564
01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 6: did such a great job at it. But what's amazing.

1565
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 6: Is like some of her choices as she was delivering

1566
01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 6: the lines actually were getting very very close to what

1567
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 6: Ashley had done. And there was actually two instances where

1568
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:08,400
Speaker 6: I actually directed Kat without letting her know. I directed

1569
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 6: her in a way to basically get the delivery the

1570
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 6: way that Ashley had done it. Because actually I kind

1571
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 6: of really loved there was two spots in particular that

1572
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 6: I thought she nailed so perfectly the time the comedic

1573
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 6: timing was just was it was exactly what it needed

1574
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:24,720
Speaker 6: to be and there was no need to change it.

1575
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:27,800
Speaker 6: So and she gave me option and the cat gave

1576
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 6: me all these options. I'm like thinking to myself, it's

1577
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 6: still not as funny as in this one instant. So

1578
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 6: in this one instance, so I just I kind of

1579
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 6: gave her a little note and she's like, oh yeah,

1580
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 6: I gret to dip and then shed it and she

1581
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 6: hit it exactly Ashley had done it, and I was

1582
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 6: just like I was laughing. But no. But but Cat's

1583
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 6: great and Ashley's she she writes so well for all

1584
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 6: the characters as a matter who it is, man, woman's child,

1585
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:56,920
Speaker 6: doesn't matter. She she captured the voice beautifully well. But

1586
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 6: for specific quickly. It's like it's it's it's it's linked

1587
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 6: cosmically in some way. I can't explain.

1588
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 4: It's'm can well you you got to hit her record.

1589
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:10,559
Speaker 4: I was on them as Marvel set. I think I missed.

1590
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,639
Speaker 4: I missed her record. So we got created off there.

1591
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 4: Hopefully you guys didn't crack open the whiskey.

1592
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 6: No no, because that was like super official work, so

1593
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:23,080
Speaker 6: we're not allowed. Unfortunately, even though I magic fied my game.

1594
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: I don't know for any have a favorite moment scene.

1595
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,920
Speaker 6: There's too many. It's like there's so much good stuff.

1596
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 6: It's like every episode has something that's fantastic, and then

1597
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 6: when I see the audience reaction to those things that

1598
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 6: we also enjoyed and just like, awesome, we did our job.

1599
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 6: People are loving that thing. It's but I think there's

1600
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 6: a ton But but because of the nature of the

1601
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 6: fact that we, you know, chow Wick passd just way

1602
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,719
Speaker 6: too soon, the fact that we were able to actually

1603
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 6: be in a room with him and work with him

1604
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 6: and just enjoy him as a person, even for just

1605
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,639
Speaker 6: a work environment moment, just doing that craft and getting

1606
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 6: him to laugh about stuff. There are some things that

1607
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,200
Speaker 6: are not in the star warts til episode that I

1608
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 6: wish we could have addition, It wasn't any time, but

1609
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 6: he was riffed on so much stuff in the bar,

1610
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 6: like the bit when Drags is supposed to take photo.

1611
01:29:13,439 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 6: He was like withing on stuff about like he's like,

1612
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 6: I don't know if I want my photo, was taking

1613
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,599
Speaker 6: in this body, you know, like it's just like who's

1614
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 6: gonna see this? As if he's like got some secret

1615
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 6: exciting like you know, like he's just having some fun

1616
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 6: with it. And then there was a thing where like

1617
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:30,640
Speaker 6: how does starlot to try to laugh? Like what does

1618
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:33,400
Speaker 6: he laugh? We needed some laughter and scratch and he's

1619
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 6: used this very south as a specific South African laugh

1620
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 6: that had a lot of those like glottles, clicks and

1621
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 6: stops and stuff like. But he was just doing it,

1622
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:43,760
Speaker 6: and he's just like, yeah, he's just creating and doing

1623
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 6: stuff that we didn't get to see Black Panther do.

1624
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 6: But here's Black Panther basically doing these things. And but

1625
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 6: the audience isn't gonna a chance to see those things.

1626
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 6: You know, we were hoping he was gonna We're gonna

1627
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 6: do a spin off and he was gonna have his

1628
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 6: own show. With that character and that those people we

1629
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 6: never got it, but but that that was pretty spe

1630
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 6: to think able to share some time with Chaw which

1631
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 6: we had no idea it was his last, you know

1632
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 6: that we're going to not see him again.

1633
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 1: You know, as a as a fan, it was it

1634
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:15,880
Speaker 1: was unexpected and certainly really emotional to hear his voice

1635
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 1: in that moment to be and you know, yeah, you

1636
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 1: really felt it, like as a fan you felt it.

1637
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, he did an amazing, amazing job.

1638
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 1: How how how long does it take to turn one

1639
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 1: of these? Just like from a production sense, like there's

1640
01:30:35,040 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 1: so much It seems like there's so much involved in it,

1641
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 1: but also some of the stuff was quite timely, some

1642
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 1: of the references, et cetera, Like, so, how how how

1643
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:48,000
Speaker 1: quickly can you turn an episode of these around?

1644
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:53,840
Speaker 6: Not quickly in the ocean. It's not a nimble little

1645
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 6: speedboat like like.

1646
01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:57,799
Speaker 1: South Park right right and not South Park.

1647
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:04,040
Speaker 6: Around the week and they're at it, but it's far

1648
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 6: longer than that. It takes a while.

1649
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 4: We're about six months of production in house, between writing, storyboards, editing,

1650
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:17,080
Speaker 4: and temp with them, that's the temp voices, and then

1651
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 4: once everything feels like it's lashed like this is the show.

1652
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 4: We bring in the marble actors, We had the designers

1653
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:24,920
Speaker 4: who are like already working hard and like figuring out

1654
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 4: the way it's going to look, and then it's almost's say,

1655
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 4: about a year to fourteen months bring to actually animate

1656
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 4: show something like that.

1657
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 6: When you especially when you take into conseration like you know,

1658
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 6: sound and post and all this stuff at the end,

1659
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 6: and you know, it takes it takes a little bit

1660
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 6: of a chunk of time.

1661
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 4: I wrote Captain Carter two weeks before Christmas twenty eighteen.

1662
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:50,120
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, that was the Holy cow.

1663
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was looking at the draft the other day.

1664
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, and in the early stages is a little extra

1665
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:58,839
Speaker 6: time because no one's done it before, like the vendors.

1666
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:02,280
Speaker 6: So but now that the machine is like up and running,

1667
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:05,760
Speaker 6: it still takes time, but hopefully won't take like that

1668
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 6: that same amount of time. There's a certain degree of

1669
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 6: brevity now that now that some of that figuring out

1670
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 6: how it gets done doesn't have to be figured out.

1671
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 6: But yeah, it takes a little while, but you know,

1672
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 6: hopefully it shows on screen. You know, there's a level

1673
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,839
Speaker 6: of quality that we're shooting for that hopefully people appreciate.

1674
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: I think they do a couple of quick things. You

1675
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:31,639
Speaker 1: mentioned the influence of JAC Lindecker. How did you marry

1676
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: some of the or decide upon some of the kind

1677
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 1: of the comic book aesthetics that you married to this,

1678
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 1: for instance, the watchers in between realm or from which

1679
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:43,759
Speaker 1: he can do all the universes, stuff like that.

1680
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:46,880
Speaker 4: Of the observatory plane. Yeah, well you need a place

1681
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 4: to hang out and like you know, take off his shoes.

1682
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:54,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, totally. No, I mean the characters having a J. C.

1683
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 6: Lindecker influence, but Jac Linderer didn't necessarily do as many

1684
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 6: backgrounds all that type of stuff. So that that's why

1685
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 6: Paul Saying was able to then work and and try

1686
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 6: to create like this look for the environments that these

1687
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 6: characters being. That seems to meld. And so we borrow

1688
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:12,680
Speaker 6: also from the comics and the fact that yeah, you know,

1689
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 6: we read them when we were younger, and like the

1690
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:16,639
Speaker 6: watcher kind of watching in the distance, all that type

1691
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 6: of stuff. Those are all images, Those are all things

1692
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:20,000
Speaker 6: that we needed to have.

1693
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 1: Kirby Crackle, Yeah, Kirby Crackle was the little circles was

1694
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:26,679
Speaker 1: quite notable.

1695
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 6: Like those are those are things that comics that exist

1696
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 6: and like we have to see those, you know, so

1697
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:36,040
Speaker 6: it's whether or not they look like Jason Landecker is

1698
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 6: a design start that that has no bearing on whether

1699
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 6: or not we want to use those visual motifs to write.

1700
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 6: You could just bring those together like like you know,

1701
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,280
Speaker 6: like Reese's Peanut, butter Cup of Us and e Xacolate.

1702
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,840
Speaker 1: And then finally a c Legally, what is the legal

1703
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:56,120
Speaker 1: status of the marriage between Howard the Duck and Darcy?

1704
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 1: Like is that do we have to get that? An old?

1705
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 1: Is that finding?

1706
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 4: Well, look, everything what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

1707
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 4: So as long as they're in Vegas, I think they're

1708
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 4: definitely married. Outside of Vegas, I don't know. Uh, I

1709
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 4: don't know how Darcy the Duck is going to do

1710
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:16,600
Speaker 4: long term relationship. I like to think Howard has his

1711
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 4: ship together, but who knows. Maybe he does, maybe he's

1712
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:19,599
Speaker 4: ready to grow up.

1713
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 1: Brian Ace, thank you so much, thank you, thank you,

1714
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:26,920
Speaker 1: and congratulations on a really fun series.

1715
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:30,000
Speaker 6: Thanks thanks so us, thank you glad you liked it.

1716
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 1: That's all for Hive Mind. Up next to the endgame.

1717
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 1: We are in the end game now, and it's time

1718
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 1: for Rosie and I to play face off, in which

1719
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:47,479
Speaker 1: we pick a character from another franchise, series, or universe

1720
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:51,840
Speaker 1: that we think could defeat a particular character, in this case,

1721
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:57,719
Speaker 1: Infinite Ultron from season one of What If, So, Rosie,

1722
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:01,559
Speaker 1: what character from another union could be any other story

1723
01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:06,599
Speaker 1: could stand toe to toe and potentially defeat Infinite Ultron.

1724
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 1: Could it be Gandalf? Could it be Denarius on Larry On?

1725
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:13,720
Speaker 1: No way? Could it be Neo in the computer or

1726
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:15,840
Speaker 1: outside of the computer. Okay, we can unpack that later.

1727
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: Could it be or it could be Darth Vader, or

1728
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 1: could be dark Side, et cetera. Who do you think

1729
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:22,680
Speaker 1: it could be? We were just talking in the pre

1730
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,640
Speaker 1: pro that, yeah, dark Side. If dark Side has like

1731
01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:27,880
Speaker 1: two years to get it together.

1732
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:31,080
Speaker 3: M maybe if dark Side's been planning since before Earth

1733
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 3: came about and he's trying, he's like, you know, with

1734
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:36,879
Speaker 3: Granny Goodness or whatever. Maybe maybe he's.

1735
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: Assembling like his his like army of children and super

1736
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 1: villains and like.

1737
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 3: Some reason. But it would take by fifteen years he did,

1738
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 3: it would be Poultrons already in a pocket dimension or whatever.

1739
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:53,639
Speaker 3: So I think Neo is actually such a slick answer

1740
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 3: because we know how important the computer is. But my

1741
01:35:57,000 --> 01:35:59,720
Speaker 3: my answer is going for like a Battle of the

1742
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 3: Witch type thing. Like Ultron has always been a character

1743
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:07,519
Speaker 3: who's obsessed with knowledge, obsessed with destroying humans, obsessed with

1744
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 3: kind of like finding out how things work and then

1745
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 3: using that to kind of dismantle stuff. So my character

1746
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:15,759
Speaker 3: that I'm gonna pick would be Pinhead from hell Raiser.

1747
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 3: One because I love the whole I love the whole

1748
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:22,639
Speaker 3: Hell Raiser franchise. And two because I think the puzzle box.

1749
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 3: I think, if you get if somebody just appeared to

1750
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:29,000
Speaker 3: Infinite Ultron and was like, are these pesky humans annoying you,

1751
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:32,720
Speaker 3: try this puzzle box. You know, if you open it,

1752
01:36:32,760 --> 01:36:35,600
Speaker 3: you can unleash Hell on all these multiple universes, and

1753
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:38,080
Speaker 3: then he would be, you know, trapped to the center bites,

1754
01:36:38,120 --> 01:36:40,360
Speaker 3: potentially end up in the hole, or just get like

1755
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 3: torn apart by cool hooks or something. I think, I

1756
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:45,360
Speaker 3: think you gotta go out of the box to beat him,

1757
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:48,639
Speaker 3: because within the world of the MCU, he's almost he's

1758
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:52,360
Speaker 3: almost too overpowered. So I think if you're going outside,

1759
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:54,519
Speaker 3: you got to go really outside. So yeah, I'm picking Pinhead.

1760
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 3: Doug Bradley Pinhead only.

1761
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: I love this. Neil would be good any kind of

1762
01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:04,960
Speaker 1: like computer e AI slash virusy like Neo is you know,

1763
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:11,400
Speaker 1: computer Jesus, it brought down the machine world. I certainly

1764
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 1: think he's capable of doing it. I think probably a

1765
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: smarter answer would be like corrupt agent Smith to just

1766
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 1: kind of like Overwhelmtron's like synapses that said, you probably

1767
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:23,840
Speaker 1: have another problem then, because then you have Agent Smith

1768
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:27,640
Speaker 1: in charge of all infinite Agent Smith. You need to

1769
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: lock them in a pocket mansion. I'm gonna go with

1770
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:34,240
Speaker 1: you need to keep Ultron. Whether or not you could

1771
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 1: defeat him, what you need to do is keep him

1772
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 1: occupied for a long, long long time. So I'm gonna

1773
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:45,800
Speaker 1: go with an amalgamation of characters. I'm gonna go with

1774
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 1: uh death from the Ingmar Bergman movie that plays chess

1775
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:58,120
Speaker 1: with the night Right, but an amalgam of that death

1776
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 1: with the death from Bill. It's head's bag his journey right,

1777
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 1: and so that death would just constantly be like, Okay,

1778
01:38:09,160 --> 01:38:14,200
Speaker 1: let's do fidget spinners, Okay, let's do bottle flipping, let's

1779
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 1: let's play bass, and so like it should just be

1780
01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:22,759
Speaker 1: like constant, constant, constant, constant challenges from death. That would

1781
01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:28,760
Speaker 1: keep Ultron infinite Ultron infinitely tied up in like a

1782
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 1: million billion infinite different games, and he would never be

1783
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:37,519
Speaker 1: able to escape like you couldn't, so he would never

1784
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:42,040
Speaker 1: actually be like physically and existentially defeated, but he would

1785
01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 1: just be like constantly being doing okay, like word jumbles. Okay,

1786
01:38:47,120 --> 01:38:49,560
Speaker 1: now we're playing tech and now we're playing Mortal Kombat.

1787
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:53,320
Speaker 1: Now we're like playing jacks like twist and that would

1788
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:56,080
Speaker 1: twister and it would go on and on.

1789
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 3: That is I really thought I had the most out

1790
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:02,320
Speaker 3: of the books on some That is honestly a perfect

1791
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 3: answer and amalgamation of two perfect things. Igmar Bergman and

1792
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:06,120
Speaker 3: Bell and Ted.

1793
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:09,040
Speaker 1: That's it for the endgame. Let us know whether you

1794
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 1: agree you couldn't disagree more. Share your answers using hashtag

1795
01:39:12,360 --> 01:39:18,120
Speaker 1: xrv endgame. That's xrv endgame. Thank you Ac Bradley, Brian Andrews,

1796
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: and Rosie Knight for joining us in another episode of

1797
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 1: X ray Vision. Rosie, where can people find your stuff?

1798
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:25,759
Speaker 1: This week?

1799
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,040
Speaker 3: I have a ton of different stuff. I got a

1800
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:32,839
Speaker 3: lot of Halloween esque situations going on with the spooky season.

1801
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:35,759
Speaker 3: So I'm going to be at Polygon nerdict as always

1802
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:40,439
Speaker 3: ign and I'm the only social media I have his Instagram,

1803
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:42,240
Speaker 3: so feel free to follow me on now. I always

1804
01:39:42,360 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 3: shout out. The podcast is just Rosie Marks mr X.

1805
01:39:47,439 --> 01:39:50,000
Speaker 1: Next week our episode will be returning to its regular

1806
01:39:50,080 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 1: Wednesday release for your weekly dose of the deepest dives

1807
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:55,600
Speaker 1: and hotestakes. Until then, what if, guys, what if? Just

1808
01:39:55,680 --> 01:40:08,000
Speaker 1: what if? Think about it? X ray Vision is a

1809
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord

1810
01:40:10,360 --> 01:40:13,320
Speaker 1: and Saul Rubin. The show is executive produced by me

1811
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 1: and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Reston Carlton Gillespie are our consulting

1812
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 1: producers and our editing. Sound design is by Sarah Gibalaska

1813
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 1: in the book That Chapter four. Big thanks to Brian

1814
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:24,679
Speaker 1: Basquez for our theme music.