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Speaker 1: It's less about like the results on the field and

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Speaker 1: more about like what would you doing in between starts?

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Speaker 1: What type of work was it putting in? Welcome into

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Speaker 1: North Side Territory, Foul Territory networks, Cubs podcasts. I'm Sada

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Speaker 1: Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney, were your Cubs beat

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Speaker 1: writers for The Athletic and we are talking all things Cubs. Patrick.

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Speaker 1: We got our first little tidbit of news, I guess

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Speaker 1: the other day with Nico Horner getting flexer surgery flexer

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Speaker 1: tendon surgery on his right wrist forearm hand. It was

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Speaker 1: just described as flexer tendon. But I think we, like

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Speaker 1: we've both been told separately in various by various sources

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Speaker 1: that it's forearm hand type issue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, WebMD is always a great research when

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Speaker 3: you start googling, whether it's in.

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Speaker 2: Your own.

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Speaker 3: Your own life or whether you're covering a team to start,

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Speaker 3: you know, googling away to see what things are.

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Speaker 2: But I think.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the interesting part is what we both told separately

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Speaker 3: of like there's not really a timeline until he.

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Speaker 2: Shows up for spring training next year, which seemed a

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Speaker 2: little odd, but.

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Speaker 3: I think it does speak to like This was not

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Speaker 3: one of those like, oh, just got a knee surgery,

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Speaker 3: you know, knee scope cleanup type thing, or just kind

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Speaker 3: of a regular maintenance like this sounded like.

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Speaker 2: The forearm bothered Nico.

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Speaker 3: Or significant part of the season that it obviously requires

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Speaker 3: a surgery that if you hear a picture getting that surgery,

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Speaker 3: it's definitely like that. Maybe the timing of this the

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Speaker 3: middle of October does give him enough runway to have,

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Speaker 3: you know, a relatively normal season next year, but it

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Speaker 3: just progresses. It just depends on how he progresses. And

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Speaker 3: like we don't we can't get too far down the

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Speaker 3: like roster maneuvering rabbit hole. But what do you think

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Speaker 3: this means at of as we're thinking about kind of

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Speaker 3: the off season puzzle here, and you know our editors

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Speaker 3: love those open day roster projections. If we had to

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Speaker 3: put one down, now, what do you think this means

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Speaker 3: for Nico on second base in the Cubs as a whole?

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think it is interesting, right, Like

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Speaker 1: is it is? How if they're not going to determine

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Speaker 1: like what his timeline is, or if they don't have

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Speaker 1: a good feel for his timeline until spring training, then

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Speaker 1: it's really up in the air what they're what they're

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Speaker 1: doing this winter, right with regards to whether they're whether

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Speaker 1: they even want to consider trading Niko Horner, whether they

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Speaker 1: are going to call up Matt Shaw right away to

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Speaker 1: start the season, whether they sign a stop gap or

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Speaker 1: trade for a stop gap in a bigger move, right,

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Speaker 1: It's I do think I think it kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of makes it a little hazy as to what they

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Speaker 1: will do or what they can do for this offseason.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think it's a catastrophe, right, It's not

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Speaker 1: something This isn't something that's going to derail his career

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Speaker 1: if they wanted to trade him. You know, a team

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Speaker 1: could very easily, you know, like be like, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: isn't gonna impact him significantly. If anything, he just put

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Speaker 1: up an above average offensive season and played elite defense

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Speaker 1: while playing with this injury for a while, and they

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Speaker 1: could expect improvement next season if he's fully healthy, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: if a team is optimistic about him, I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's the rosy scenario. I don't think it would actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, teams are always looking for any leverage that

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Speaker 1: they can in the trade, So it's gonna they're gonna

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Speaker 1: downgrade him because of an injury, right.

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Speaker 3: Know, how much they're obsessed with value of like selling

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Speaker 3: I mean, trading Nico when he's coming off a pretty

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Speaker 3: significant surgery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, in the middle of the rehab process.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, right, so it probably it probably downgrades

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Speaker 1: the chance of him being traded significantly. I think, like,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that they're going to get the type

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Speaker 1: of value that they see as equal or surplus in

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Speaker 1: a in a trade for Nico right now. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think it changes his projection too much. Like he

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Speaker 1: was playing with this for a while, is my understanding.

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Speaker 1: They noticed some issues with this throwing, and he said

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Speaker 1: he was fine, over and over and over again. He

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Speaker 1: he didn't bring this up, So you know, that's how

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Speaker 1: players are like that. This is something that we had

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Speaker 1: a question about this right in our mail bag about

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Speaker 1: injuries and why they don't put guys on the aisle

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Speaker 1: is really a lot to do with the player. They

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Speaker 1: don't always let on how bad things are. They don't

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Speaker 1: always let on about how much something is bothering them

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Speaker 1: or how much it's impacting their play, or that they're

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Speaker 1: or that something's even going on and it's just hard

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Speaker 1: to force a player to to to admit these things

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Speaker 1: unless they're just a complete detriment to the team. And

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Speaker 1: there were points where Nico wasn't that great, But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like obvious that he was terrible. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: he was striking out all of a sudden at a

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Speaker 1: higher rate or anything like that. It was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's a unique type of player in the sense like

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Speaker 1: a lot of his value comes from defense and then

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Speaker 1: the ball in play not going over the fence type thing, right,

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Speaker 1: So sometimes it can just seem like randomness when he's

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Speaker 1: in a goal stretch because it's like everything's falling into gloves,

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Speaker 1: and then when he's hot, it's like, oh, he's finding

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Speaker 1: the grass at times.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean he acknowledged when I spoke to him towards

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Speaker 3: the end of the season, like he he felt like

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Speaker 3: he didn't have that good of a year, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean. I think his standards, his expectations, he

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Speaker 3: wanted higher, and like you look at it, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think Baseball Reference had him at like a three

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Speaker 3: point seven war season, and he didn't feel like he

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Speaker 3: played like exceptional.

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Speaker 2: And I think for him, for the Cubs.

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Speaker 3: You're hoping for that, you know, five war season, you

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Speaker 3: know four plus, which.

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Speaker 2: Was something he's done before.

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Speaker 3: I think our understanding this more of like a wear

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Speaker 3: and tear type of injury, right than more of like

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Speaker 3: some sort of specific incident, which makes sense in that

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Speaker 3: he's an up the middle player. He's a fast player

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Speaker 3: who plays hard.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I think he had some stuff earlier in his career, right,

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Speaker 3: I think that was the knock on Nicos, like could

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Speaker 3: he stay healthy? And to his credit, he adjusted his

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Speaker 3: routine and really found some stuff that works and kept

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Speaker 3: him on the field.

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Speaker 2: But it will be interesting.

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Speaker 3: I have a heart something that they're going to go

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Speaker 3: out and get like a second basement, right. I think

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Speaker 3: it'll be interesting to see, like do they try to

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Speaker 3: get more power at first? Do you try Michael Bush

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Speaker 3: at second? I have a hard time imagining them giving

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Speaker 3: up on parades at third, But like he could probably

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Speaker 3: do it right and they could stop gap it. And

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Speaker 3: this is what Jeed talks about when he talks about

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Speaker 3: depth and having depth that's not even on the forty

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Speaker 3: man roster yet and packing the.

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Speaker 2: Upper levels of your organization with talent.

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Speaker 3: I think he even said it at a season in

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Speaker 3: press conference, like you're gonna feel really good when injuries happened.

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Speaker 3: You can bring up a top one hundred prospect, and

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Speaker 3: in the case of Matt Shaw, he's like, what a

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Speaker 3: top twenty five ish prospect?

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, if I had to bet money right now,

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Speaker 3: I would probably bet on Matt Shaw, right, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, I think they would be pretty comfortable with that.

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Speaker 3: They wouldn't love the idea of adding him to the

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Speaker 3: forty man before they had to, or you know, obviously

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Speaker 3: no one wants to see Nico.

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Speaker 2: Sidelined.

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Speaker 3: But like you said from that question off a previous

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Speaker 3: mail bag, like the Cubs are not gonna rush Nico

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Speaker 3: through this. I'm sure he's gonna push and we'll just

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Speaker 3: kind of have to see where things are at whenever

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Speaker 3: we get to Mason next year.

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Speaker 1: One quick thing, Patrick, I'm just looking baseball perspectives as

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Speaker 1: like this injury database, and I'm looking for don pitchers

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Speaker 1: with a flexer strain and it's not very common. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I haven't found very many, and it seems like it's

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Speaker 1: like two to three, three to four months of the

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Speaker 1: player being out. One at PJ Higgins, former Cub, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for one hundred and he was more than four months.

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Speaker 1: It was flexer tendon repair surgery back in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: It says he missed more than four months. The rest

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Speaker 1: was Alejandro Kirk that was just a strain, no surgery

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Speaker 1: eighty days, and then Mitch Garber surgery eighty seven. I

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Speaker 1: can't find any other like hand or finger. Maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: doing the doing the thing wrong here as far as

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Speaker 1: how I look at this, but yeah, I'm not seeing

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Speaker 1: I'm not seeing any hands, mostly forearm. So this is

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Speaker 1: a kind of a unique injury, and we'll see, we'll

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Speaker 1: see how it plays out. I am curious. I was

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Speaker 1: interested right away. I was like, wait, what is this injury?

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Speaker 1: How long? And the fact that we can't get a

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Speaker 1: get a timeline is a little is definitely interesting. All right, Patrick,

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we will

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Speaker 1: be right back with more cubstock.

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Speaker 4: I love a great deal, but I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back at it, Patrick. We have some shifting, adjusting,

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Speaker 1: realigning of the coaching staff after Craig Council dismissed multiple

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Speaker 1: coaches on the final day of the season, and then

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Speaker 1: maybe what like a week or two later, Willie Harris

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Speaker 1: and the Cubs parted ways. I mean, the coaching adjustment

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Speaker 1: is as simple as Mark Stripmeyer, who is I believe

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Speaker 1: field coordinator, major league field coordinator. He's a shifted to

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Speaker 1: bullpen coach. Darren Holmes was let go. Strip Meyer Matter

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Speaker 1: was in his first season with the Cubs last year,

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Speaker 1: so it was Homes Holmes was let go and Stripmatter

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Speaker 1: shifts to bullpen coach. Yeah, you know, I think this

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Speaker 1: is just a you know, this is a respected coach.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like he's a good communicator. From some of the

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Speaker 1: players I talked to, this is this was well received.

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Speaker 1: I think the bigger news is strength and conditioning, where

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Speaker 1: those guys get over looked and don't get a lot

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Speaker 1: of attention until people get injured, right, And and I

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Speaker 1: think there was a little bit of a focus on

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Speaker 1: that early in the season. I believe you asked a

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Speaker 1: question about it, strength and conditioning, and and that made

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Speaker 1: some changes, Like I guess you were on it in

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Speaker 1: April and May, and it was something that council I

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Speaker 1: think it was specially attuned to and took note of

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Speaker 1: early on, and he made a change and they made

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Speaker 1: some internal promotions, internal hires.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have.

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Speaker 3: Mark Wiseman and Kevin poppy. I think I'm pronouncing it

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Speaker 3: that correctly.

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Speaker 2: I hope so.

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Speaker 3: But Mark sinteresting guy. He's from the Chicago suburbs. I

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Speaker 3: believe the Buffalo Grove area was like an awesome fullback

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Speaker 3: at Iowa. I believe there was like a Wiseman for

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Speaker 3: Heisman briefly campaign push and you know, I think you

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Speaker 3: tried out for the Cincinnati Bengals. It didn't work out.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, injuries may have played a role,

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Speaker 3: but just like a big dude, a big presence, someone

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Speaker 3: who's worked with the organization's prospects for a while, well

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Speaker 3: regarded for his energy, and I think if you kind

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Speaker 3: of look at his football background, I think and his personability,

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Speaker 3: I think that has carried some weight and well as

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Speaker 3: well as Kevin who has already been involved in this

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Speaker 3: space with the Cubs, kind of coordinating between the major.

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Speaker 2: And minor league sides. Someone who's designed off season programs

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Speaker 2: for Cubs players already.

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Speaker 3: He has a facility in Texas where Hayden Wiznski has

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Speaker 3: worked out at for years. I believe, even before he

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Speaker 3: joined the Cubs. Like this may be going back to

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Speaker 3: his time in Houston and high school or college. I

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Speaker 3: forget when, but obviously a long standing connection there, and

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Speaker 3: so it is interesting. I feel like after Councils spent

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Speaker 3: a lot of this past year sort of observing what

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Speaker 3: the Cubs do. Not that he was a passive part

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Speaker 3: of the season by any means, but someone who did

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Speaker 3: not really get a chance to hire his own staff,

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Speaker 3: and who I think is deliberate by nature, really took

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Speaker 3: this opportunity to observe. And yet that night after the

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Speaker 3: first game of the season, letting go a bunch of coaches.

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Speaker 3: I think our understanding here is like, maybe not every

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Speaker 3: single role will be filled from last year. The staff

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Speaker 3: could shrink a little bit, but that's more because of

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Speaker 3: overlap than anything else.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 3: The thing I'm curious about, and I don't have any

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Speaker 3: inside info in this, is like, will anyone defect from

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Speaker 3: Milwaukee again?

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Speaker 2: Like will he be able to poach a Brewer's coach?

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Speaker 3: And this is just my speculation, but I think most

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Speaker 3: contracts sort of run through the end of October, right,

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Speaker 3: And that was Counsel's thing at least last year, where

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Speaker 3: he right, I did not talk to the Cubs until

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Speaker 3: that officially expires. So that's something that I am curious

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Speaker 3: about to see if we'll get one more Brewer coming

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Speaker 3: south from Milwaukee.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if that were the case, right,

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Speaker 1: Like why, like usually we're we're pretty good at like

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Speaker 1: getting uh, getting names and getting candidates right like, uh,

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Speaker 1: we can usually and this the process usually doesn't take

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Speaker 1: this long, right like it if you have an open

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Speaker 1: you have a staff, you have a manager in place,

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Speaker 1: like usually, Well I guess, well, no, I guess that's

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Speaker 1: not right, because those spots were still open when when

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Speaker 1: Council was hired, right the bullpen coach and whatever, the

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Speaker 1: strategy coach, whatever, the the two coaches that that Ross

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Speaker 1: let go, We're still open when he was doing when

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Speaker 1: he was like that, so and that was the GM meetings.

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Speaker 1: So it's very possible that you know that this this

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Speaker 1: stuff does drag on. But you know, I'm curious to

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Speaker 1: see what happens with the Milwaukee staff. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they'd give permission to let guys talk to the cups.

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Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't think that that's how Milwaukee's

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Speaker 1: been to roll right now. So if those if those

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Speaker 1: guys haven't been extended, and there's some names that we've

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Speaker 1: heard in the past with with Milwaukee that could make sense.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious to see if if if there's anyone

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Speaker 1: that that defects over and and if there's some more

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Speaker 1: shuffling within the staff. You know, it's not like they

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Speaker 1: may have the first base coach or third base coach

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Speaker 1: on staff already and and maybe looking to fill a

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Speaker 1: different role. I don't know, I'm I'm it's it's possible

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Speaker 1: that these types of things happen. Uh what there was

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Speaker 1: something that crap I lost my train of thought, but

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Speaker 1: there was something else I wanted to bring up.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they're definitely in the process of this.

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Speaker 3: They've made progress, but it's not finalized yet, which does

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Speaker 3: give them that kind of flexibility you're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about right right? And what something that I got

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Speaker 1: from a player regarding strength and conditioning. I think that

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Speaker 1: the guys that were let go were well liked, but

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Speaker 1: players that are really diligent about these things when it

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Speaker 1: comes to working out and their routines that they've noticed

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Speaker 1: that some of the younger guys aren't as diligent about it,

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Speaker 1: and and they they'd like more. I think they'd like

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Speaker 1: more pushing in motivation from that group. H and Weissman

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Speaker 1: and Poppy I think have a really good reputation for

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Speaker 1: that like that. So Poppy, sorry, I was I was

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Speaker 1: looking this up while you were talking. So if you

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Speaker 1: said this, Bobby does have a history with a lot

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Speaker 1: with these players in a sense like he's he hasn't

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Speaker 1: worked directly with them, but he does their programming at

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Speaker 1: times and like passes along how they need to work

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Speaker 1: in the offseason or during the season, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 1: And and Wiseman is definitely around as well. They have

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Speaker 1: good reputations. I think strength and conditioning is something that

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Speaker 1: the Cubs can improve upon as far as making sure

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Speaker 1: that they're that especially young players, players that are learning

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Speaker 1: how to work every day. The big leagues really are

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Speaker 1: on top of those things, and it's an area that

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Speaker 1: the Cubs can can really get on top of with

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Speaker 1: with those young guys. So it's a it sounds like

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Speaker 1: it's a step in the right direction. One one player

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Speaker 1: told me that they were excited about the moves and

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Speaker 1: think they they're better in the weight room. So we'll see.

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Speaker 1: We'll see if that actually leads to success or or

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Speaker 1: if you see tangible results. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: tangible results are but you know, maybe it's the fewer

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Speaker 1: guys on the I l maybe it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: guys will talk about it. Like I think there's little

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Speaker 1: things that you hear over the course of the season,

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Speaker 1: right that it's like, oh, that's interesting. I like when

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Speaker 1: when Jameson Tyan talked about Jordan Wicks and the improvements

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Speaker 1: he saw, the growth he saw with him off the field.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a little thing that like, oh, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this guy matured, this guy, this guy grew as you know,

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Speaker 1: it's less about like the results on the field and

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Speaker 1: more about like what was he doing in between starts?

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Speaker 1: What type of work was he putting in? And and

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Speaker 1: Tyne noticed that and felt he matured as a player.

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Speaker 1: I think those are the little things we may pick

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Speaker 1: up over the course of the season. Is this working,

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Speaker 1: is this effective? Here's what we hear from the players

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Speaker 1: in between games and after games and things like.

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Speaker 3: That, And our operating assumption is that kind of the

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Speaker 3: bigger name coaches will remain in place, right I mean

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Speaker 3: I'm talking about I mean Ryan Flaherty hasn't been.

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Speaker 2: Hired for some sort of manager job.

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Speaker 3: That's clearly the track that he's on or had been

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Speaker 3: when he came to Chicago. We'll see Dustin Kelly. I

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Speaker 3: think earned the right to come back. Seeing what Miguel

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Speaker 3: Amaya did mid season, how Pete Crow Armstrong evolved as

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Speaker 3: a hitter, how the Cubs a lot of players sort

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Speaker 3: of found their norms, and I think you got to

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Speaker 3: give them a break in terms of the way Wrigley

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Speaker 3: played this year, right, I think his personality and relationships.

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Speaker 3: And also I'm just tired of the blame the hitting

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Speaker 3: coach game, Like I just can't really do that, Ayre,

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Speaker 3: you know, right, And obviously Tommy Hovey's pretty well established

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Speaker 3: at this point, almost an extension of the front office.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how do you read of those other coaching roles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I how to be I think, if anything,

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Speaker 1: it like he's earned. He's earned, like your safe type

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Speaker 1: designation as far as coach, like being the pitching coach.

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Speaker 1: If he wants to, if he wants a different role,

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Speaker 1: or if he wants to move on that, I understand that.

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Speaker 1: But like he's done a he's done a really good job.

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Speaker 1: He's helped He's helped so many relievers, he's helped develop

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Speaker 1: young pitchers that I think he deserves to stay and

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Speaker 1: has earned counsel's trust in the year that they've worked together.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you on DK, like what he did

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Speaker 1: over the course of the season with those younger guys

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Speaker 1: has to be acknowledged, Like that's some of the biggest

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Speaker 1: stuff that you can do as a coach. Work hard

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Speaker 1: with these guys, don't give up on them, continue to

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Speaker 1: find ways to adjust and improve major league developing. Developing

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Speaker 1: at the major league level was a big thing that

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Speaker 1: THEO used to harp on that they weren't doing enough,

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Speaker 1: and obviously Jed is focused on it as well. I

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Speaker 1: think DK was respected as a minor league hitting coordinator,

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Speaker 1: and it's clear to me that you can't judge a

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Speaker 1: hitting coach off April and May. But I think when

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Speaker 1: you have young players and you see them struggle April, May,

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Speaker 1: June and then and then kind of take off and

390
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: make adjustments, and there's real things that they're changing or

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Speaker 1: working on, and the hitting coach is helping them with that,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to give them a hard time. Veterans that's

393
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Speaker 1: hit or miss, who knows how much of that as

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Speaker 1: a hitting coach, But young guys, especially when you see

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Speaker 1: that improvement, they get they deserve credit for that, and

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Speaker 1: Plaierity got a lot of love from from Counsel over

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Speaker 1: the course of the season. Like Counsel gave him, Uh

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Speaker 1: did he give him base stealing? Uh? What he gave

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Speaker 1: him some responsibility from the bench that seemed a little

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Speaker 1: odd but was really effective.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's either it was it was something like base stealing

403
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Speaker 1: or something like that, and in the middle of the

404
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: season they just kind of took off with it. It's

405
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Speaker 1: clear like Counsel went, like when Council goes out of

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Speaker 1: his way to like praise these guys with like it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and tell him like I gave him this

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Speaker 1: responsibility and he's done a great job with it. Like

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Speaker 1: that's I think that matters.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Is there a coach in the dugout telling Saya not

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Speaker 3: to steal third base against.

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Speaker 2: The Dodgers in the last inning.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember the entire sequence at this point, but

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Speaker 3: that was I was laring one and I think what

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Speaker 3: you had heard and what kind of made it into

417
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: our story of like the base running overall just has

418
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 3: to improve next year, like the base deals and just overall,

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Speaker 3: whether you're talking about some of those mistakes running the bases,

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Speaker 3: or some of the accumulations of injuries, particularly early in

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Speaker 3: the season. Just you look at the record. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's the bottom line. You did not get this overwhelming

423
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 3: sense that, like the Cubs are crushing it with the

424
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 3: details over and over again, and that's why changes are happening.

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Speaker 3: Changes are underway, and it will be interesting to see

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Speaker 3: kind of the finished product once we get through that window.

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Speaker 3: Like you mentioned shade of World Series GM meetings, the

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Speaker 3: hiring cycle starts to slow down kind of by the

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Speaker 3: end of that period, and we'll get a better sense

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Speaker 3: of like what the Cubs are trying to to do.

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Speaker 2: Here, we get it.

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00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 6: Mornings are nuts, no time for breakfast, but you need

433
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 6: to get your day started right.

434
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,680
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435
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,399
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436
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,640
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Speaker 1: All right, Patrick, I think you wanted to talk a

452
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: little bit about an emerging powerhouse in baseball. At least

453
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: that's you know, there's been some interesting articles written about

454
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: the Mets. I think if you look at what they

455
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: did this season and then what they're capable of, it's

456
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: just another people have been talking about it Cohen with

457
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: David Stearns like this is It's been happening for a

458
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: year now, the discussions of what they could be and

459
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: their surprise run to the NLCS. I think is it

460
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: is just the tip of the iceberg about how good

461
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: this team could be and what's kind of coming.

462
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have a kind of wider World Series preview

463
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: later in the week, But I don't know. To me,

464
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 3: watching these playoffs, the Mets really stood out. And I

465
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 3: think if your Cubs fan or a few Cubs I

466
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 3: don't know, player, coach, executive, whatever, I think you're gonna

467
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: have to count for the Mets. And I think the

468
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: Mets sort of make the Cubs look a little, I

469
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: don't know, small or behind, just in terms of you

470
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: have Steve Cohen as an owner, what he's done there.

471
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: It's not perfect. He had mistakes on the front end.

472
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: He's not.

473
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: He's certainly an interesting character, I guess you could say,

474
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: and he's certainly using the Mets to burnish his reputation

475
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: at large.

476
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: But like.

477
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 3: He came in and changed kind of the paradigm of

478
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: the Mets and just said I'm going to spend in

479
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 3: a way that cub stands like, oh oh, like an

480
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 3: owner to do that. And then you have David Stearns

481
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 3: leaving Milwaukee and in one off season just hitting on

482
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 3: one free agent after another, whether Sevarino, Manaia.

483
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: They have some good players to start.

484
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 3: With, no doubt, but it seemed like you're like, wow,

485
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 3: like what if he had a full year to really

486
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: learn the organization and put more of his imprint on it.

487
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: Do kind of that Brewer's model, but with a ton

488
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 3: more money. And they obviously pursued Greig Counsel and hired

489
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 3: kind of a first year manager instead who delivered kind.

490
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 2: Of the magic that the Cubs just lacked. And so

491
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: for me, like.

492
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: At each level of the organization, you just saw something

493
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: that kind of maybe you look at the Cubs like

494
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 3: what like what's missing in Chicago?

495
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: And then even if.

496
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: You're the most optimistic Cubs fan, I think the Cubs

497
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: are building the superpower. Like if you think that way,

498
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to think the Mets are gonna be

499
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 3: pretty good too. That at a certain point you're gonna

500
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: have to beat the Mets. I would think if you

501
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: want to get to the World Series here in the

502
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: next like five years, right, I mean that's kind of

503
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 3: how the national stories that are coming out of these playoffs.

504
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, if if we're looking at teams that

505
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: that I think are going to be there year after

506
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: year and have both the money and the and the

507
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: type of executives that I believe can you know, really

508
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: use that really wield that money properly and then build

509
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: an organization up and down, like from the bottom up.

510
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: The Dodgers are probably number one, Yeah, and then I

511
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: think the Mets are coming. Like David Stearns is like

512
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: he has earned all the respect in the world for me,

513
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: Like what he did with Milwaukee was incredibly impressive. Go

514
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: look at the history of the Brewers. It's kind of like,

515
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: go look at the history of the Rays before Andrew

516
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: Friedman showed up. Go look at the history of the

517
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: Brewers before Sterns showed up, and how often they were

518
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: making the playoffs. It wasn't just Stearns, right, but he

519
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: was the head decision maker for the majority of that time,

520
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: and he did something special there as far as turning

521
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: them into a perennial contender when they were not. They

522
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: were not looked at as like this model organization at all,

523
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: and now they are. And I think when you have

524
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: that and combine it with an ownership group that's willing

525
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: to really wield their financial might, that's a game changer.

526
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: I do find there's some interesting things that happened, and

527
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: I wonder how repeatable it is, and we'll have to see.

528
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: But they got two hundred and eighty plus inning starters

529
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: on one year free agency. I don't know how many

530
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty inning plus starters there were in

531
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: all of baseball, but my guess is it wasn't that

532
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: much higher than ten. Yeah, and to have and to

533
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: have two of them on one year deals, like that's

534
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: that's really impressive. Uh. And that's not that's not like

535
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: a what I mean, that's if anything, he gets a

536
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: ton of credit for that. Right, twenty one guys that

537
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: that got one hundred and eighty innings this year, so

538
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: and and the and the Mets had two of them.

539
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: That's that's wild, man, Like, that's really impressive to be

540
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: able to find those guys and nail it. I mean,

541
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: Sebarino was a solid bat I like that, man. I

542
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if he was, like is this guy

543
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: even a starter anymore? That type of stuff, But he

544
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: shut me up and and probably a lot of other batters.

545
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: And they're both gonna get paid and and I wonder,

546
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, like how how much does Sterns changes

547
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: philosophy in Milwaukee. It's like, let those guys walk, right, yeah,

548
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: the walk? Does he try and resign either of them?

549
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: Their system? Is better. They're they're they I think they're

550
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: a great uh there. You can point to them as like, hey,

551
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: don't give up on some of these prospects that may

552
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: have struggled that looked like they were cooked, like Mark

553
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: Biento's looked terrible, terrible, like a bad player, like a

554
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: complete like zero automatic out at the plate, like not

555
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: putting any fear. He was their second biggest threat offensively

556
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: after Lindor maybe just pure offensive threat, and he was

557
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: their biggest threat at times. So yeah, like, I they're

558
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: they're an interesting story, good follow. I think Biento's is

559
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: a type of player fans Cubs fan since that's who

560
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: we're talking to, need to keep in mind when you're

561
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: writing to kick a prospect of the curb, like player development.

562
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: We just talked about Dustin Kelly, like they need to

563
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: You need to find the right coach to work with

564
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: guys and get the most out of them. You never

565
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: know what a guy's gonna be like. Look at this

566
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: sixty three way to runs great A plus. In twenty

567
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: twenty two, that was you know, forty one played appearances.

568
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: Then twenty twenty three gets two hundred and thirty three

569
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: played appearance's sixty eight way to run screen a plus

570
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: like this is unusable and he's not a good defender,

571
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: and then one thirty three like that would be second

572
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: best on the Cubs. It's going off my memory, like

573
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: that's what he had this season. He'd be right behind.

574
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: Say Suzuki is the second best offensive force on a

575
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 1: Cubs team. Yeah, it's like you never never give up

576
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: on these players. If you see the talent and something

577
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: can click. I agree with you there, they're going to

578
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: be a force to reckon with. I don't know if

579
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: the Cubs will. I don't think the Cubs will ever

580
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: spend in that stratusphere, unfortunately for the fans. But the

581
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: Mets are scary to consider their their farm system is

582
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: in better shape than it was even a year or

583
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: two ago. Obviously, they have a ton of major league talents,

584
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: good enough to get to the good enough to get

585
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: to the NLCS, smart executives, MVP candidate, it's they're they're

586
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: they're gonna be tough to beat. I think the Cubs

587
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: are are going to get better and and they're going

588
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: to be in contention in the not too distant future.

589
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: But the Mets and the Dodgers really make it hard

590
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 1: for like, really make it hard to say, like, Okay,

591
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: here's the clear path to the NLCS to the World Series.

592
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: And it also makes it hard when when you're a

593
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: fan and you're looking at those two owners and you're saying, well,

594
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: why can't why can't the Cubs behave in that manner?

595
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just thought it was irrelevant takeaway.

596
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 3: And I think back to the great conversation we had

597
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 3: with our buddy Derek Gould to the.

598
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: Saint Lewis post dispatch of like this sort of mentality

599
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 2: in the Flyover territory in terms of.

600
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, building a baseball team, like do you want to

601
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: build a team that can win or project to win

602
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 3: anywhere from like eighty four to eighty nine wins?

603
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: Or are you going to sort of.

604
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 3: Be pushed by the Mets and the Dodgers the way

605
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: that Jed Hoyer and theo Epstein talked about the Red

606
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 3: Sox Yankees rivalry.

607
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: I think there's a new Netflix documentary.

608
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: Coming back out on you know, the twentieth anniversary of

609
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 3: that twenty and four team of like do you kind

610
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: of chase greatness and build that sort of monster team

611
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: or do you just hope to sort of like keep

612
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: getting in and get lucky at some point. It's worked

613
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: for the Cardinals before it could work again. The Diamondbacks

614
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: almost won a World Series with it last year. But

615
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 3: I think the bar had been raised with another team

616
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: trying to compete like dollar.

617
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 2: For dollar, player for player with the Dodgers.

618
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, if anything, the Cubs aren't going to be competing

619
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: dollar for dollars with those teams. So so all the

620
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: more pressure on Jed Hoyer, Carter Hawkins, and and and

621
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: that front office group two to nail these their decision

622
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: making and build the right you know team. Uh, it's

623
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: gonna have to be based on talent evaluation and how

624
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: they accrue that talent, not on like they're not on

625
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: the Cleveland budget. So it's not like you know, the Dolans.

626
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: Dolan's right, they make an insane amount of money. Uh,

627
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: and don't put it into that team. Ricketts puts a

628
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: decent amount into this team, not at the Mets and

629
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: Dodgers level. So uh, they're gonna have to figure out

630
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: how to win with with that and and and they're

631
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: they're not It's not like they're set up in a

632
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: situation where it's like, how are they ever going to

633
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: get good? You just want to see them at that level,

634
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: and and I think it's possible, and this is an

635
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: off season where they can get close to that, but

636
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: it's still building up to that level then out there yet,

637
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: so we'll see if they get there. All right, Patrick,

638
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: let's wrap it up there. Thanks so much for listening

639
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: to everyone. This is Northside Territory. Make sure to subscribe,

640
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: rate and review, and subscribe to the YouTube channel and

641
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: subscribe to the Athletic for Patrick and I will be

642
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: on top of the Cubs offseason gore all winter long.

643
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening and everybody, we really appreciate it. Thanks.

644
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: Take care,