WEBVTT - Shutdown Goal:  Make the Other Side Look Bad.  Debra J. Saunders on Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>We now have a president of the United States who

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<v Speaker 1>is a racist. So that's pretty plain spoken from one

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie Sanders, right, whipping up a little racial animus. We

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<v Speaker 1>like Deb Saunders. She's the White House correspondent for the

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<v Speaker 1>Las Vegas Review Journals. She's right there in the eye

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<v Speaker 1>of the hurricane, close to the power. What's going to

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<v Speaker 1>smell evil from where she is? White Horse, white House

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<v Speaker 1>correspondent for the Las Vegas Review Journal. Deb Saunders, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>Deb Hi, how are you doing excellent among our hairbrain

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<v Speaker 1>theories this morning? From twirling the dial and listening to

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<v Speaker 1>everything from MSNBC to CNN to UH, I almost had PBR.

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<v Speaker 1>I almost. I always say PBR when I'm thinking NPR

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<v Speaker 1>HAPs blue Root, I think perhaps I have a problem. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, on even on PBR, they're talking about how

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<v Speaker 1>both sides in this shutdown are really not not acquitting

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<v Speaker 1>themselves very well. They're finding fall with the Democrats, with

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<v Speaker 1>Nancy Pelosi on MSNBC. It sounds to me like the

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<v Speaker 1>pressure might be building to get together and actually negotiate.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a hair brain theory or what? I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think it's a hair brain theory at all, And it's

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the truth is what the White House has

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<v Speaker 1>been doing and what Democrats have been doing in Congress

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<v Speaker 1>is all they care about is making the other guys

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<v Speaker 1>look bad. They're not. They haven't been trying to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of deal on either side. So uh, and the deal

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<v Speaker 1>is the only way that this ends is that when

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans feel they have to do it, in Democrats feel

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<v Speaker 1>they have to do it. If one side thinks they're

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<v Speaker 1>going to get something more out of it, they'll find

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<v Speaker 1>a way to let it go on. And uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not good for the economy. It's not fair to

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<v Speaker 1>people to ask them to work without pay for for

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<v Speaker 1>a month plus and um so so yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that I think that there should be if if I'm

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<v Speaker 1>listening to you and I want this to end, I

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<v Speaker 1>call it my congress person, my senator, whatever party, and

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<v Speaker 1>say end it, because that's the only way it happened. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post editorial board said, hey, Democrats, he threw

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<v Speaker 1>something out, you gotta throw something back. You can't just

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<v Speaker 1>reject it. So you know that's their cheerleading squad there. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>this is unrelated to anything. How empty is the White House?

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<v Speaker 1>I heard Trump talking to the other day about he's

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<v Speaker 1>just he's I'm here all alone. I was here alone

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<v Speaker 1>over over the holiday, and I'm just walking around in

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<v Speaker 1>this big empty building. Is it? Is it actually like that? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean so. So the briefing room, Uh, if you

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<v Speaker 1>when you when you see the podium where Sarah Sanders

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<v Speaker 1>used to come out and give daily briefings, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you'd see there was a door if you're looking at

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<v Speaker 1>it to or left behind, that is the lower Press

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<v Speaker 1>area and and and then you can walk through the

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<v Speaker 1>malls and you get to the upper Press area or

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<v Speaker 1>Sara Sanders offices, and and there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people who work in that area who are not there now.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't let the press wander all over the White House.

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<v Speaker 1>So unless you're doing pool and you're brought into an event,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what you're seeing. But it's it's pretty quiet there.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's a government shutdown in it's effecting the

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<v Speaker 1>White House as well, so but it's only partially so

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't get it. Well. I mean, you're

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<v Speaker 1>obviously a press person there every day, but you're just

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<v Speaker 1>not seeing as many people there, and it's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>quieter and in Washington's quieter. I mean, the commute's great, really,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's it's it's it's not noticeable in my life

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<v Speaker 1>at all, I mean at all the most Americans or

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<v Speaker 1>practical leaning American. But for you and d C, it's

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<v Speaker 1>very evident. Well, look at its ent of the government

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<v Speaker 1>is shut down, and if you have like a seven

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<v Speaker 1>percent change in the in the community really changes the ture.

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<v Speaker 1>That just this is the longest and that's some good

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<v Speaker 1>urban planning knowledge too, that this is the longest shutdown. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the second longest shutdown was in ninety six and the

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<v Speaker 1>White House was empty and Bill Clinton was wandering around

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<v Speaker 1>and and spotted a young intern with a song, and

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<v Speaker 1>that whole thing started because he was bored and walking

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<v Speaker 1>around in an empty White House. I just thought that

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<v Speaker 1>was interesting. Trump talking about that the other day. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just I'm the only one here. Well, And of course

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<v Speaker 1>his family went out um to Florida tomorrow ago most

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<v Speaker 1>of it, I mean, uh, Melani did come back, and

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<v Speaker 1>they did go to a lock in the middle of this,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were traveling. But it's just and you know

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<v Speaker 1>that you have to understand about this White House is

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<v Speaker 1>they take any excuse to not share information with you.

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<v Speaker 1>So you've noticed we're not really seeing a whole lot

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<v Speaker 1>of briefings. And today Trump tweeted that he told Sarah

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<v Speaker 1>Sanders not to do them because press are don't treat

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<v Speaker 1>it well. But also, I mean we've seen this every

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<v Speaker 1>time something happens, like during the mid terms, when Trump's

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<v Speaker 1>out campaigning, they they've had this way of sort of

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<v Speaker 1>whittling everything back so that there wouldn't be as many

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<v Speaker 1>briefings and they wouldn't talk to the press as much,

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<v Speaker 1>and that keeps that's happening more and more, and so

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<v Speaker 1>what you're getting is sort of these ad hoc press conferences.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we don't have Sarah Sanders doing briefings. We

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<v Speaker 1>have Donald Trump when he feels like it, talking to

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<v Speaker 1>the press that they're called pool sprays when the pool

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<v Speaker 1>comes in and he talked to them, or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he'll be going out to Marine one and he starts talking,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's that's where we're getting our information. I'm highly

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<v Speaker 1>uncomfortable with the lack of transparency, which is increased administration

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<v Speaker 1>after administration over the last twenty years, and and and

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<v Speaker 1>it's not going to come back. Whoever is in their next,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not coming back. That makes sense. Hey, how crazy

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<v Speaker 1>was the twenty four hour period between Thursday night when

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<v Speaker 1>the BuzzFeed story hit and Friday night when Muller knocked

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<v Speaker 1>it down. How crazy was that twenty four hours? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, um, I mean, being from the school of oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I have to react to us story

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<v Speaker 1>from buzz scene that's based on too uh anonymous sources.

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<v Speaker 1>It didn't affect my life a whole lot a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>There are people who really obviously we're going crazy over

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<v Speaker 1>it and social media whatnot. So a lot of other people,

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<v Speaker 1>I just uh, I just try to have better, you

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<v Speaker 1>know better, I try to source things better. There's enough

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<v Speaker 1>real note news going on here that we don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to jump on every story that comes out that's based

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<v Speaker 1>especially on unknown sources. So I mean, look at I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>we had we've had to shutdown uh you know, of

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<v Speaker 1>course tumpted this a thing Saturday more shut it down.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's so much going on right now that why

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<v Speaker 1>would you bother you know, sort of ripping up the

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<v Speaker 1>pages for that. Right. Well, we're sure you have Catholic

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<v Speaker 1>schoolboys to shame there in the swamp, but a couple

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<v Speaker 1>more questions. Uh, we thought, we kind of thought impeachment

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<v Speaker 1>fever would be running high during that period between the

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<v Speaker 1>BuzzFeed news story and the Muller statement. I mean, there

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<v Speaker 1>had to be some buzz well you know if you

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<v Speaker 1>say that, But I think it was Axis that came

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<v Speaker 1>out with a story where they talked to the freshman

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<v Speaker 1>Democrats and it's a very small number that want to

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<v Speaker 1>really push for impeachment right now. So during that twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four hours, you're right, if you turned on CNN or

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<v Speaker 1>you watched MSNBC that you keep hearing. If true, right,

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<v Speaker 1>then we have to impeach Trump. And that did get

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<v Speaker 1>that fever upgoing, but then of course it got shot

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<v Speaker 1>down and and and I think a lot of Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>understand that if they just rushed through impeachment without having

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<v Speaker 1>seen Robert Mueller's report Special Council's report, they look sort

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<v Speaker 1>of rapid. And of course, let's let's get to the

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<v Speaker 1>really important thing, which is it's not they're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to get rid of Trump because the Senate bollowing some

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<v Speaker 1>new information that we haven't seen. But there's no way

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<v Speaker 1>in the world with Senate would convict him. We don't

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<v Speaker 1>even know that the impeachment would pass. So so it's

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<v Speaker 1>like how much and and and look at what you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I was talking earlier about the shutdown. Nobody cares about

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<v Speaker 1>cutting a deal. They just want to make the other

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<v Speaker 1>side look bad. And that's the impeachment story too. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you really have these people who really they can't stand

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump uh and they want they want him out

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<v Speaker 1>and they nothing will get in their way. But it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't really help the party because you're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>get what you want. Deborah J. Saunders, White House correspondent,

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<v Speaker 1>Las Vegas Review Journal is on the line. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>Devid just struck me. My my daughter is going to college,

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<v Speaker 1>like right in your neighborhood someday, Can I buy you

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<v Speaker 1>guys lunch and have her I love her having her meat.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, smart women who've who have done stuff in

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<v Speaker 1>the world. So and you're definitely on that list as

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<v Speaker 1>a smart woman who's done stuff. There you go, right,

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<v Speaker 1>where're you going? In brief, I'm not going to say

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<v Speaker 1>that on the air, Okay, Okay, it's it's a small

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<v Speaker 1>cobbler's school in uh Capitol Hill area. She repair underappreciating

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<v Speaker 1>in the modern worm, all right, we'll talk soon. Dep. Saunders,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, all right. Yeah, So I'll throw this in

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<v Speaker 1>while we're on the topic. The cover of The Atlantic

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<v Speaker 1>got a lot of attention, and this happened before the

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<v Speaker 1>BuzzFeed story came out. A lengthy and much discussed article

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<v Speaker 1>by Yannie apple Bomb. Do you still get The Atlantic?

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<v Speaker 1>Have you read this? Propos proposes that Congress immediately begin

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<v Speaker 1>impeachment precedings against President Trump for being unfit for office

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<v Speaker 1>and evincing little respect for the rule of law, regardless

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<v Speaker 1>of whether or not he's committed any crimes. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>I and I thought, wow, Okay. Alan Alan Dershwitz Harvard Law,

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<v Speaker 1>who is a Clinton supporter and doesn't like Trump, but

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<v Speaker 1>has been in the weird position of standing up for

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<v Speaker 1>for liberal ideals UH points out to The Hill. The

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<v Speaker 1>Framers explicitly rejected those criteria for impeachment that is, being

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<v Speaker 1>unfit for office and demanded that high constitutional threshold of

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<v Speaker 1>high crimes and misdemeanors be met. In fact, as apple

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<v Speaker 1>Bomb's criteria could be applied to any president. But he

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<v Speaker 1>also spending on your point of view, yes, and he

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<v Speaker 1>also suggested even if it fails, impeachment would be the

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<v Speaker 1>best way to run out the clock on it in administration.

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<v Speaker 1>If that became an idiotic idea much an approach, says Dershwitz,

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<v Speaker 1>would only encourage wrongful weaponization of impeachment as a partisan

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<v Speaker 1>political tactic to be deployed by both parties. That's it's

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<v Speaker 1>like killing a hobo for the purpose of distracting people from,

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<v Speaker 1>you know something else. That's a that what what are

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<v Speaker 1>you insane? You know, it's funny. I didn't get to

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<v Speaker 1>that part of the article. I started into it, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was clear to me it was just a stew

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<v Speaker 1>of kind of Alec Baldwin esque opinion and so kind

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<v Speaker 1>of your your MSNBC round table, no regard for the

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<v Speaker 1>rule law. So that may be true. But so they're

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<v Speaker 1>making the serious argument that to save the nation, because

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump is so destroying our country, yes, we'd be

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<v Speaker 1>better to lock it be locked in an impeachment battle

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<v Speaker 1>until the next election, just to run out the clock. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that wouldn't come back to haunt you at all. Well, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and and and here's a better metaphor. You

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<v Speaker 1>and your your spouse are arguing, and you set a

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<v Speaker 1>fire to distract from the the argument yeah, what happens

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<v Speaker 1>the next argument she sets a fire and then after

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<v Speaker 1>that you're gonna torch the sofa. Oh great, idea, super

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<v Speaker 1>or she won't be able to make a point if

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<v Speaker 1>you know, her bedroom burning. But you gotta you admit,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a serious magazine with serious people who read it

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<v Speaker 1>and write it. Yeah, it's not you know, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>a bomb chucking show. No, it is not a buzz

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<v Speaker 1>fee for instance, or a slate or a huff po.

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<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, you know, sometimes there's stuff has impact,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes it doesn't. And it's a perfect example. And we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be talking about one of our favorite journalists about

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<v Speaker 1>this later, but um, it's a perfect example of desperation

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<v Speaker 1>in the media leading them to you know, really prostitute themselves.