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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Gambling on sports is

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Speaker 1: now legal in almost forty states in the US. The

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court paved the way for this in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and since then, betting has become a big business. Football

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Speaker 1: is American's favorite sport to watch, and it has been

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Speaker 1: by a wide margin for more than half a century now.

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Speaker 1: On Thanksgiving in twenty twenty three, more than thirty four

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Speaker 1: million people on average tuned into the NFL's three games.

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Speaker 1: That was a record breaking audience. Tomorrow's slate of games

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Speaker 1: is poised to break this record anew In recent years,

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Speaker 1: the National Football League has gone all in on gambling

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Speaker 1: on broadcasts, in stadiums and online. Jason Kelly, who hosts

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg podcast The Deal with Alex Rodriguez, says the

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Speaker 1: NFL's embrace of betting and fantasy football is having a

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Speaker 1: huge impact on the game.

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Speaker 2: What is so interesting is it's changed the economics for

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Speaker 2: literally everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: It's a boon for the league and for sports betting sites.

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Speaker 1: Many fans are following the game in a new way.

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Speaker 1: Pregame shows have shifted their focus. They're about odds as

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Speaker 1: much as wins and losses, and Jason says sports betting

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Speaker 1: has changed the game itself in many ways and what

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Speaker 1: life is like for players. They're the product.

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Speaker 2: They're the product that's being bet on, you know, week

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Speaker 2: after week, day, day by day, and in minutia that

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Speaker 2: they probably never could have imagined.

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Speaker 1: Was happening, and that, Jason says, is both a blessing

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Speaker 1: and a curse.

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Speaker 2: On the one hand, there's this massive opportunity for more

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Speaker 2: revenue and more attention. On the other side, there's a

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Speaker 2: dark side that we know about to sports betting, which

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Speaker 2: can be very personal and potentially dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Jason says he wanted to hear from pro football players

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Speaker 1: themselves elves about this moment of transition to get a

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Speaker 1: sense of how they feel being at the center of

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Speaker 1: this new industry. So he sat down with several athletes

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Speaker 1: who are trying to figure out where there's opportunity, what

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Speaker 1: they can do, and what they can't. River Craycraft is

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Speaker 1: a veteran wide receiver for the Miami Dolphins.

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Speaker 3: It has struck fear into me when it comes to

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Speaker 3: sports betting. I don't fully know the ins and outs

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Speaker 3: of what I am and what I am not allowed

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 1: I'm David Gera, and this is the big take from

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News today. On the show, how the normalization of

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Speaker 1: betting culture is impacting pro football and the athletes who

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Speaker 1: play it. Bloomberg's Jason Kelly knew he wanted to hear

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Speaker 1: from a range of NFL players about the impact sports

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Speaker 1: betting is having on professional football, so he reached out

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Speaker 1: to some who are newly pro, others who are mid career,

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Speaker 1: who have played for two or three teams, and who's

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Speaker 1: recently retired. But Jason says lining them up wasn't easy.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting, David, is not everybody wanted to talk

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Speaker 2: about this. In fact, there are a bunch of players

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Speaker 2: and reps that I called or like, yeah, my guy's

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Speaker 2: not going to go anywhere near talking about sports betting.

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Speaker 1: What makes this a sensitive subject is how much is

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Speaker 1: at stake. One misstep and an NFL player could be suspended.

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Speaker 2: The basics are, if you're an NFL player, if you're

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Speaker 2: an active NFL player or associated with an NFL team,

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Speaker 2: you cannot bet on football. You certainly can't bet on

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Speaker 2: your own team, full stop. And so they're hyper aware

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Speaker 2: of what they can and can't say and what they

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Speaker 2: can say is actually very limited.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: One of the people we interviewed, River Craycraft, who's a

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Speaker 2: wide receiver for the Dolphins, was talking about sort of

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Speaker 2: the written rules and the unwritten rules. You know, the

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Speaker 2: written rules are very clear.

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Speaker 3: Some of the things around gambling are you don't want

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Speaker 3: to do it in the facility, you don't want to

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Speaker 3: do it at any team functions or anywhere. Basically that

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Speaker 3: includes the NFL. For example, being at your house by

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Speaker 3: would be a place that you could do it. So

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Speaker 3: those are some of the written rules versus the unwritten rules,

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Speaker 3: which is kind of like speaking out on so and

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Speaker 3: so I was going to do this this week to

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Speaker 3: the media. Perhaps.

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Speaker 1: Jason says the growth of sports betting is making life

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Speaker 1: tricky for pro players like Greatkraft. It's posing all kinds

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Speaker 1: of new challenges.

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Speaker 2: He's getting text messages and calls and he sort of

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Speaker 2: has to say to people, It's like, come on, man.

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Speaker 3: I have friends all the time who we'll reach out

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Speaker 3: who are placing bets and stuff and asking me questions

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Speaker 3: about you know, who's scoring this week and who's scoring

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Speaker 3: that week, And like I said, I'm so scared. I

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Speaker 3: can't respond to these guys. And some of these guys

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Speaker 3: are my best friends, and I just got to tell them, like, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know the deal.

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Speaker 1: Jason also spoke with Julius Thomas, recently retired All Pro

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Speaker 1: tight end who played for the Denver Broncos, the Jacksonville Jaguars,

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Speaker 1: and the Miami Dolphins.

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Speaker 5: I think about all the friends and all the people

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Speaker 5: in my life that would send me a text like,

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Speaker 5: you know, blunt, hey are you playing? I need to know?

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Speaker 5: And you had to think about what can I say?

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Speaker 5: How can I be coy about this? How do I

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Speaker 5: create these boundaries.

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Speaker 1: It's a mix of the ambiguity of how a player

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Speaker 1: is supposed to operate in this new environment where betting

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Speaker 1: is so clearly such a big deal, and the potential

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Speaker 1: penalties that can be stressful for NFL players.

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Speaker 2: The punishment is severe enough for these guys, and many

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Speaker 2: of them said it that it is just not worth

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Speaker 2: going near it at all because of the loss of

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Speaker 2: wages and the loss of opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Jason says to keep in mind that careers in the

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Speaker 1: NFL are generally pretty short. The average career is just

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Speaker 1: about three and a half years long in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: Calvin Ridley, a star wide receiver, was suspended for a

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Speaker 1: year for betting on NFL games. He's now back playing

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Speaker 1: for the Tennessee Titans. Dolphins player to Ron Armstead says

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Speaker 1: punishments like that loom large as players navigate their limits.

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Speaker 4: You see a great player going for a year, not

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Speaker 4: anything injury related, not anything health related. It's a shock

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Speaker 4: and it's scary.

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Speaker 1: Sports betting's large scale normalization has led to a cultural

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Speaker 1: sea change in professional sports, especially football, and aside from

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Speaker 1: the risks it poses for players, Armstead says, it's also

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Speaker 1: shifting the way fans engaged with the game with downsides

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Speaker 1: and benefits.

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Speaker 4: People are getting more and more invested and kind of

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Speaker 4: getting away from teams and favorite players. They're going where

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Speaker 4: you know their advantages are, and I get it. But

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Speaker 4: I like the fact that it gives you something to

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Speaker 4: watch and you're hoping for and you're staying an entire

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Speaker 4: game and hopes for you coming out positive on your bet.

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Speaker 4: So I love that aspect of it for sure. I

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Speaker 4: love the attraction that it brings.

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Speaker 1: Coming up the challenges NFL players face in the new

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Speaker 1: world of pro football. Julius Thomas was a tight end

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Speaker 1: who played for the Denver Bronco and the Jacksonville Jaguars.

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Speaker 1: He moved to the Miami Dolphins before he retired in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Now, Thomas is getting his doctorate at Nova

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Speaker 1: Southeastern University. As the world of sports betting grows, Thomas

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Speaker 1: says he thinks most people don't understand how the industry

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Speaker 1: has shifted fans relationships to players.

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Speaker 5: When fantasy football started to take off and so many

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Speaker 5: people started to be individually invested in your job performance

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Speaker 5: on a week and week out basis, it was really

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Speaker 5: challenging for me. And you have people coming up to

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Speaker 5: you at restaurants at grocery stores and saying, oh, why

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Speaker 5: didn't you guys throw the ball enough? Or why didn't

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Speaker 5: you catch more passes? Why don't you have more touchdowns?

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Speaker 5: To the point where I started to even isolate myself.

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Speaker 5: I would only go to the grocery store at night.

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Speaker 5: I didn't want to go spend time in the local

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Speaker 5: downtowns because I knew I was going to be bombarded

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Speaker 5: and I was going to be having to deal with

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Speaker 5: that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Today, you can bet on almost every aspect of the game.

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Speaker 1: Sports betting sites like draft can encourage parlays, a cumulative

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Speaker 1: series of bets in which gamblers can potentially win big

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Speaker 1: even while betting small. This leads to fans, particularly ones

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Speaker 1: on social media, taking issue with moments that are small

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Speaker 1: bordering on insignificant, that have little to no impact on

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Speaker 1: the final score. Jason says. The players he talked to

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Speaker 1: resent any implication they're not giving it there all during

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Speaker 1: a game.

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Speaker 2: So this notion that someone could say they were not

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Speaker 2: working as hard as they could it really sort of

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Speaker 2: cuts to the heart of I think their pride and

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Speaker 2: sense of self.

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Speaker 1: Jason says. Players noted how social media is littered with rude, crass,

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Speaker 1: and downright mean spirited messages directed at them, and how

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Speaker 1: much they're costing gamblers.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone has really figured out, including

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Speaker 2: the NFL or these individual teams, how to truly protect players.

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Speaker 1: The pros Jason talk to recognize that now that betting

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Speaker 1: is legal, it's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: They seem to be pretty convinced that this is here

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Speaker 2: to stay.

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Speaker 1: The collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and the NFL

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Speaker 1: Players Association doesn't expire until twenty thirty, but Jason expects

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Speaker 1: betting will be front and center when that contract gets

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Speaker 1: negotiated in a few years.

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Speaker 2: Listen, today's players are much more aware than they were

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Speaker 2: twenty thirty, certainly forty fifty years ago, of the massive

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Speaker 2: economics underneath this game, especially this game the NFL. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is the big daddy of them all in terms

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Speaker 2: of professional leagues. They read the same headlines, they know

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Speaker 2: the billions and billions that are going in, and they're

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Speaker 2: going to continue to argue to get their fair share

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: Something that could change is what kind of relationship pro

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Speaker 1: football players are allowed to have with the betting industry.

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Speaker 1: Right now, it's limited.

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Speaker 2: They in the NFL, unlike in other leagues, are prohibited

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Speaker 2: from having business relationships with the bet companies, which is

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Speaker 2: not the case in some of the other leagues. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, Lebron James is an ambassador for DraftKings. That's

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Speaker 2: totally allowed in the NBA, not allowed in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: The league, proponents of sports betting, and the players recognize

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Speaker 1: that there is an upside to all this money changing hands.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that is very clear about what

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Speaker 2: betting has done, Betting and fantasy have done, is it

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Speaker 2: has raised the level of interest in games that you

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Speaker 2: or I, as a fan of a certain team, might

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Speaker 2: not have been interested in before.

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Speaker 1: But the notion of fandom is changing as a result,

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Speaker 1: some fans who are betting on football are more interested

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Speaker 1: in individual performance than in the game itself.

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Speaker 2: And so it does create sort of a different kind

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Speaker 2: of tension, and it takes away arguably some of the

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Speaker 2: spirit of why we love sports so much, which is

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Speaker 2: we want our team to win. It does sort of

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Speaker 2: take away some of the romance to some extent of

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Speaker 2: a march to the playoffs if you're really just rooting

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Speaker 2: for a team, because all of a sudden you're sort

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Speaker 2: of rooting for your fantasy team or your betting portfolio.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe I'm being like old man nostalgic here,

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Speaker 2: but like I remember a day where you just wanted

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Speaker 2: your team to win.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Big Take from Bloomberg News.

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Speaker 1: I'm David Gura. This episode was produced by Alex Sigura,

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Speaker 1: who also mixed in. It was edited by Stacy Vanick

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Speaker 1: Smith and Aaron Edwards. It was fact checked by Adriana Tapia.

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Speaker 1: Naomi shaven Is our senior producer, Elizabeth Ponso is our

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Speaker 1: senior editor. Nicole Beamster bor is our executive producer. Sage

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Speaker 1: Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Please follow and review

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Speaker 1: The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. Helps new

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Speaker 1: listeners find the show. We'll be back tomorrow.