1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: So it's no secret that every soul. Often we will 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: run across a story that stays with us after the 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: after the digital tape stops rolling. And that's the case 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: with today's classic episode called simply what is the Octopus? Hint, 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: it's not a has nothing to do with a maritime creature. No, no, 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: it has to do with a journalist that stumbles upon 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: a story that really takes over his life in a 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: lot of ways. And my goodness, it is compelling. It 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: feels like some kind of movie, and it was actually 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: made into It's been made into several different screen versions, 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: and we highly recommend this episode. Again has been said, 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: I there's not there's not a month that goes by 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: when I don't think about Danny Cassilero and the Octopus. 14 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: So wrap all eight of your arms around this podcast 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: for an octopus like hug uh and and you might 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: learn something too from UFOs two Ghosts and Government cover ups. 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: History is writtled with unexplained events. You can turn back 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: now or learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone, 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and Ben, 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: And you guys, oh man, you're in for a treat. 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: This is something we usually don't get to cover. It's 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: a mega conspiracy, that's right. It is a conspiracy that, 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: if true, involves multiple conspiracies functioning in concert. This is 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: a supersize conspiracy theory. And we do have to say theory, Matt, 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 1: because at this point, while a few of these things 27 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: are have been proven definitely right, a few things have 28 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: been proven true. This is so big that the connections 29 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: between these events are the part that is that remains. Theoretical. 30 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: Connect actions are the key and and a lot of 31 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: times with conspiracy theories, that's the missing piece, connective tissue 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: between two or more events. So let's dive right in. 33 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: First off to the to our listener Alex on Twitter, 34 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: who asked us what we were covering earlier this week. Alex, 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: I did tell you that it was an octopus. Did 36 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: say it was bigger than a giant octopus, but I 37 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: did not mean the animal. This, in fact is a 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: group that, if it exists, is called the octopus. Matt. 39 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 1: Could you just just lay the gist of the conspiracy 40 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: theory down for us? Okay, here you go, guys. This 41 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: is juicy. So the Octopus is a group of interconnected, 42 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: powerful networks that cooperate together to further their mutual interests 43 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: and uh and they've been doing so for a long 44 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: long time. Now. This group was allegedly discovered by this journalist. 45 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: His name was Danny Castillo. And if you've watched our 46 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: video already, uh, the The Tentacles of the Octopus, you 47 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: you saw that we kind of mentioned his name, and uh, 48 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: this is one of the places where we're gonna go 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: deep into Danny Cassaliro's life. So this guy discovered it 50 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: and he was beginning an investigation essentially, And what Danny 51 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: Cassaliro was looking into was this ongoing legal dispute between 52 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice and an I T group, a 53 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: company named in Slough Incorporated. And he he called this 54 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: group the Octopus due to his belief that this there's 55 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: this organization involved in multiple criminal activities again kind of 56 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: a head that has its tentacles in all these different places. 57 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: And his investigation it gained him national recognition because he 58 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: died supposedly as a result. Uh yeah. Now, this is 59 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: one of those episodes, ladies and gentlemen, where if you 60 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: are not driving, feel free to make a drinking game. 61 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: How many times we mentioned the words alleged or allegedly, 62 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: because again we have to be careful with this. Uh. 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: Danny Casilero to his friends, Joseph Daniel Castilero full name uh, 64 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: did die in August of nine one. The official cause 65 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: of his death was listed as a suicide, and his 66 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: body was examined not once but twice by different medical professionals, 67 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: and both times they reached the same conclusion. Now, yeah, well, 68 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: let me just give some context. He he was found 69 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: in a bathtub with his wrists slit up to twelve times, Yeah, 70 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: in the Sheraton Hotel of Martinsburg, West Virginia, exactly. And 71 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: he had told his family and friends that if he 72 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: were to die, it would look like an accident, and 73 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be an accident. That's according to his brother, right, 74 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: And um uh, there was a suicide note. Right, there 75 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: was a suicide note. And let's let's go back here 76 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: first and say that when Cassilero are investigating the dispute 77 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: between the Department of Justice in this group in slaw, 78 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: he was just investigating whether or not there were Shenanigan's 79 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: uh going on in these court cases, right, which had 80 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: already turned pretty nasty by the time he shows up 81 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: on the scene. What he believed he discovered, this octopus 82 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: that he alleged existed, came about as a result of 83 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: his investigations, and that's when things began to get more 84 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: and more tense. That's when he became, you could say, 85 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: more paranoid. That's when he became more concerned that his 86 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: investigation might put him or his sources in some sort 87 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: of danger. He had been he had been receiving phone 88 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: calls that were menacing in nature and from anonymous sources, 89 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: and that was corroborated by I think his housekeeper absolutely. Uh. 90 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: His housekeeper corroborated these stories and went on record saying 91 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: that she had been the anal recipient of a few 92 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: of these phone calls. Uh. I believe the The anecdote 93 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: that suck with me the most is where she testifies 94 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: that she received a threatening phone call. When she picked 95 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: up the phone, someone just threatened to throw her and 96 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: Castolero to the sharks. Now, I don't want to make 97 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: light of it, but this is one of the reasons 98 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: that I am so thankful for caller I d and 99 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: don't answer unfamiliar numbers, you know. And this was a time. Uh, 100 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: this is a way to segue into technology, because this 101 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: was a time when the Internet was not as wide known, 102 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: as widely spread as it was today. This was a 103 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: time where people didn't have the pervasive access to social 104 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: media or the abilities that we have today to track people. Yeah, 105 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: it's a it's a strange thing to think about, just 106 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: the time before caller I D something as simple as 107 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: calor I D. Just knowing who you're picking up a 108 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: phone and connecting to. Uh it, Oh man, It just 109 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: it makes you realize how how pervasive, massive amounts of 110 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: information exists on the people you're communicating with at any 111 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: moment in time. How theymos the anonymous nature of that 112 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: communication is kind of going away right Uh now, in 113 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: the case of Castilero, that's something we wanted to pin 114 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: on your radar, folks, So remember that it's going to 115 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: be a big part of this episode in just a 116 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: few minutes. Uh. For Castilero, when the official cause of 117 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: death was listed as a suicide, several of his friends, 118 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: family members and confidence you mentioned his brother already, I 119 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: mentioned his housekeeper didn't buy the official story. They believe 120 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: that Castelero was murdered because he was on the verge 121 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: of exposing this stuff. They don't want you to know, 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: that's right. So so first things first, Ben, Yeah, Um, Unfortunately, 123 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: because of circumstances in their lives, people do commit suicide. 124 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: And h it's a it's a tough thing to grapple 125 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: with at any time. Um. You know, again, there's so 126 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: many circumstantial things that can happen stress. We don't have 127 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: to go into all that right now, but we do 128 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: know that it happens, and there was a suicide note 129 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: found with Danny, so it is possible that maybe he 130 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: did take his own life m due to the stress. 131 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: Anything else I'm saying here is conjecture. But well, I 132 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: think I think the point we're at right now is 133 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: we're asking, Okay, after this this grand, mega conspiracy, the 134 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: gist of this, could it be true? We have outlined 135 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: a couple of things. You raise a very important and 136 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: unfortunate point, which is that people do take their own lives. 137 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: We've already mentioned that he was found with the ten 138 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: to twelve slash wounds on his wrist in the bathtub 139 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: of room five seventeen. I believe that the Sheridan that 140 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: he had also been harassed and threatened. As his progress 141 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: on the end slaw case, uh continued to go a 142 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: little bit deeper each time, a little bit further down 143 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. It's also true that Time magazine had 144 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: commissioned him to cover this case. And now we have 145 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: to ask why was he in Martinsburg, West Virginia to 146 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: begin with? Here is the major point of contention. He 147 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: was there because he was making contact with the source 148 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: that he really believed would give him the last little 149 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: bit of connective tissue, the evidence that he needed to 150 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: reach what he called the head of the octopus, the 151 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: main part of the organization. And uh, that's why people 152 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: believe that he did not take his own life. Right now, 153 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: if we look at this octopus thing, this idea, if 154 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: it it does exist, then what we're looking at is 155 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: the concept of some sort of super mafia for lack 156 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: of a better term. Sure, Uh, the before we go 157 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: too far into the super mafia aspect or whatever, let's 158 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: look at some of the big players that Castolero and 159 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,599 Speaker 1: other conspiracy theorists after him have been naming as members 160 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: or tentacles of the octopus. The possible suspects, right, yeah, 161 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: not the usual, but the possible. Uh yeah. So the 162 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: first one is the Department of Justice. Uh so, so 163 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: they used and improved this this piece of software called 164 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: Promise and it was that was this is the thing 165 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: that was made by Insula Incorporated. And they used it 166 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: to become basically full on people tracking and and uh 167 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: surveillance machines. Are they they wanted to be a people tracker, 168 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: right right? Yeah, they took they took the idea of 169 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: the Promise software, which was means of managing legal cases electronically, 170 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: and enhanced the source code so that it wouldn't just 171 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: be a case management system, but it would be a 172 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: people management stem. And after they enhanced it, which violated 173 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: the terms of their license. Uh. They also cooperated with 174 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: other governments, um to sell the software. But I want 175 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: to I want to save some of the Promised stuff. 176 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: Just need to know that there that they're one of 177 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: the biggest players. At least they're one of the first 178 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: touchstones that Castellero believed he found. Now of course, uh, 179 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: this being a story about spies, we can't go too 180 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: far without running into an intelligence agency, right, and so 181 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: it should be no surprise that another member of this 182 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: alleged octopus would be the CIA, which was allegedly working 183 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: with Iran private weapon manufacturers and a bank called b 184 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: c c I to UH funnel drug trade and weapons 185 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: sales money from Iran and other sources into money for 186 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: Nicaraguan contras um, which of or a lot of our 187 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: listeners will recognize as the Iran contra scandal. Yes, and 188 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: you do a great job of outlining that, Ben, I 189 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: have to say in the video the Tentacles video. If 190 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: you haven't watched it, please again watch that video. Oh yeah, 191 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: Wednesday video. Yep. Um the well, thank you, Matt. I 192 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: appreciate I I was. I was proud of that video. 193 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: You did a great job. So man, I'm blessing over here. 194 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: And so we did mention the banks as well, the 195 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: b c c I, which was again allegedly UH working 196 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: with the CIA and related organizations to store and launder money. 197 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: One point there, when we say allegedly working with the 198 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: CIA in this case, it's a little bit nuanced because 199 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: we do know that b c c I and the 200 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: CIA were working together. The question is whether they were 201 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: working together to do something illegal, You know what I mean. 202 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: It's not it's not abnormal for a government agency to 203 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: work with a private organization like a bank. Absolutely, and 204 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: the money. You know, you've always heard follow the money. 205 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: So we've already gotten to the bank. Who else could 206 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: we possibly have on this list? Ben, Oh, well, I'm 207 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm scooting to the edge of my seat, Matt, who 208 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:17,719 Speaker 1: is it? It's Iran. So we've mentioned that Iran is 209 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: buying weapons, and they're also supplying cash for the contras 210 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: in Nicaragua, and uh, even though maybe they didn't even 211 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: know about it. Maybe maybe Iran didn't know where the 212 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: cash was good. Maybe um, maybe they did, but uh, 213 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: they're also working with factions of the Reagan administration to 214 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: manufacture a little thing called the October Surprise, which remains 215 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: um alleged to say, oh my gosh, if people are 216 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: playing the drinking game, now have some water. Please have 217 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: a couple of SIPs of water for the next few 218 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: alleged alleged mentions. So the October Surprise real quick sidebar 219 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: is this conspiracy theory that during the time time that 220 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter were both contesting the office 221 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: of the Presidency in the United States, that there were 222 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: hostages held by Iran and that somehow somebody told them, 223 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: told the hostage takers to hold those hostages until, um, 224 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: they would be released, you know, when Reagan was elected 225 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, and there there's some there's 226 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: some pros and cons. It's definitely an interesting thing to 227 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: think about. But again it is important to say that 228 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: that was never conclusively proven. The timing did happen to 229 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: work out that way, however, agreed, it's not proven. Well, yeah, 230 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: and how much of that is confirmation bias? There's so 231 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: much you want to see and and how much of 232 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: that other people would argue was somehow suppressed because again, 233 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: in an age before such pervasive technology existed, you know, uh, 234 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: it may have been easier to you something with that 235 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: amount of subterfuge. But those are some of the big players. 236 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. Castelero believed that these were all related, 237 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: all um, if you will, all all tips above the 238 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: water of a massive iceberg. That was all one thing. 239 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: And to to really figure out more of this now 240 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: it's time for us to look at promise. We've mentioned 241 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: what happened in the early nineteen eighties, and this is 242 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: in our our video series on this in the early 243 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. Uh, this I T group in Slaw, which 244 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: I still think is a terrible name. It just yeah, 245 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't ring. It sounds like they're Cole Slaw. All 246 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: I hear in my head is the Slaw part. Yeah, 247 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: maybe we're just hungry? Are we guilty of podcasting? Younger? 248 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: I think I think PR has just gotten so much 249 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: more pervasive and people have gotten better at PR. Now 250 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: you don't name your company something like that, and maybe 251 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: it has a personal reason. Um yeah, that's perhaps it's 252 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: a clever acronym. That's uh really, I guess not the 253 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: not the most relevant point to assure today. But despite 254 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: our opinion about what they name their company, one thing 255 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: is for sure, objectively speaking, they were fantastic at this 256 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: case management software. This idea of promise um is is 257 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: something that changes the game. If we can cast our 258 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: memories back to the nineteen eighties, or for you younger listeners, 259 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: cast your imagination back there. Uh. The deal that the 260 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: Department of Justice made within Slaw was to install this 261 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: revolutionary people managing case management software in forty two U 262 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: S attorneys offices across the United States. And when you 263 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: make these kind of agreements for software when you're essentially 264 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: doing is buying a license. So right, so the Department 265 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: of Justice gets a license for these forty two locations 266 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: of promise. How However, as as we mentioned earlier, apparently 267 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: in the Department of Justice, according to inslaw and a 268 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: couple of court cases, uh, the Department of Justice stole 269 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: this program, enhance the code to make a bigger, better 270 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: promise and sold it to foreign governments. In slaw did 271 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: take them to court. Inslaw didn't just say, uh, you know, 272 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam wasn't truthful in his dealings with us. They 273 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: also said that Uncle Sam was attempting to bankrupt the 274 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 1: company in order to silence them and stop the litigation. 275 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: That's right, and there's more to that. I just want 276 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: to also reiterate that another thing that they did that 277 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: d o J with this software is right a back 278 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: door so that the people they were selling this software too, 279 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: they could have access to the information that was being 280 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: used on other ends. So let's say let's say of 281 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: I don't know them, SAD purchase this software. It gets installed. 282 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: Now I in the U S and the d o J, 283 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: I can read everything that you're putting in through this software. 284 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: Because I know how to access it right or or 285 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: as was specifically alleged, it was Middle Eastern countries. They 286 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: said that the United States was selling this to Syria 287 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: or Jordan's with the backdoor to monitor the activities of 288 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: the government. If this is or was true, it's a 289 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: very hefty and serious allegation. Um, still still drinking water 290 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: because we have more and uh, the this is what happened. 291 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: So it's very interesting a bankruptcy judge of all people 292 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: sides with Inslaw and gives them a heap of money too. Yeah, 293 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: it says that the Department of Justice must pay the 294 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: president events Law, Bill Hamilton's six point eight million dollars 295 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: in damages. Yeah, it's pretty serious. But but that wasn't 296 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: the end. Uh. Well, it was the end of that 297 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: judge's career because when his reappointment came up, he was 298 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: not reappointed. Uh. And he believes that this was in 299 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: some way retribution for his ruling. Uh. There was another 300 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: judge appointed to fill that seat who was one of 301 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: the lawyers arguing in the ins Law versus d O 302 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: G d O J. Case. By the way, if you 303 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: guys want to in in the interim before our episode, 304 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: drops later in this week. Uh, if you want to 305 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: find out more about this Insulaw case, there's a YouTube 306 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: video from an Australian broadcasting company that back in the 307 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: day did an entire series called the Insulaw Affair, and 308 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: you may or may not find a link to it 309 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: somewhere hidden in our video from Wednesday. Yeah, you might 310 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: have to go frame by frame, but it's there, right, 311 00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: It's somewhere in there. And speaking of massive conspiracies, we 312 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: do always have a couple of interesting little easter eggs 313 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: in our videos. So if you think you've seen the 314 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: whole thing from watching it once, might bear another look 315 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: or five or five. Yes, And uh, now that we're 316 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: adding our own massive conperience on top of this. Uh, 317 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: if we get back to this concept here, um, this 318 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: this idea that somehow these things could all be connected, 319 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: then we realize that these allegations require an extraordinary amount 320 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: of proof. Um. First off, we know that we know 321 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: that Congress did not dismiss these uh, these allegations or 322 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: these claims that were Congressional investigations into the matter, and 323 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: the Standing Subcommittee or the Permanent Subcommittee tasked with looking 324 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: at this in the Senate found that how did they 325 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: put it. We cannot say there is any evidence of wrongdoing. Yes, 326 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: I could not say that there was no wrongdoing, and 327 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: they could not say that there was wrong doing. It's 328 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: it's not it's not up there with you know, neither 329 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: confirm nor deny. But but they said when Congress looked 330 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: at it, that the facts just weren't there for further 331 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: legal action. Not every member of Congress was happy with this, 332 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: of course, and people who believed that there was something 333 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: rotten and denmark er rotten in Washington to point of phrase. Uh, 334 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: for those people, this was further confirmation that there was 335 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: something amiss. However, at this point, we do know that um, 336 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: we we do know that Danny Castolero's piece that was 337 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,479 Speaker 1: going to be published, uh, never saw prints. And we 338 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: do know that there there are some fairly divided groups 339 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: about this, right, which is something you and I run 340 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: into a lot on shows. Uh. There are people who 341 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: say that this is pervasive and it's massive and the 342 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: lack of hard evidence indicates that there's someone out there 343 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: suppressing truth. And then we have the other side and 344 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: that it's still happening and they're still in charge. There's 345 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: these people are still doing it. Yeah. And then there 346 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: are other people who just say, come on, guys, this 347 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: is this is this is crazy talk. We can't we 348 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: can't even look into these kind of things because if 349 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: we truly believe that these people can be this organized 350 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: and you know, this secretive about something this huge, then guys, 351 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: what the heck are we doing here? And that's always 352 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: the question, isn't it when it comes to the idea 353 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: of a massive conspiracy. Uh, most people are terrible and 354 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: keeping a secret, a meaningless secret. You know, like you 355 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: you watched a television show that you were supposed to 356 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: watch with your friends by yourself. Can you keep it 357 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: quiet till Thursday? Yeah? Right? And I mean that's anecdotal, 358 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to belittle this, but what I 359 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: am saying is for this to be true, there would 360 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: have to be a lot of other things in play. 361 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: And for people who do believe that there's a conspiracy, 362 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: they point to, um numerous mysterious deaths that maybe mafia hits. 363 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: It is it is known. Uh, it has come to 364 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: light before that various factions of domestic agencies have worked 365 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: in some way or another with a criminal element, right 366 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: like the old fast and furious scandal um or the 367 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: idea of people who would be CIA assets or informants 368 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: working with criminal organizations. That's why, that's why we're very 369 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: careful to say facets, because we we can't say that 370 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: an entire group of people does something because a couple do. 371 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: But we also know that organizations like the CIA, and 372 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: specifically the CIA, they have their ends in a lot 373 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: of things. We recently just learned that well, something that 374 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: we probably all kind of assumed, but that in Ukraine, 375 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: the the forces in Ukraine are being I I want 376 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: to use the word managed, but that's not the correct advised. 377 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: That would be the correct word by the CIA as 378 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: well as the FBI because of an anti terrorism angle. Well, 379 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are other forces in Ukraine being 380 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: advised by the kgbely excuse me, Oh, they don't exist anymore. Sorry. 381 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: So as we see this is this is just a 382 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: kind of a quick look to explore in some more 383 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: detail the ideas of the octopus. And it's strange to 384 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: think that this story was big for a time and 385 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: now I think it's safe to say that most people 386 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: um are not aware of this historical conspiracy theory. I 387 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: would say, a lot of people are aware of some 388 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: of some of the tentacles, right yeah, and the big 389 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: question is if they were all did we know that 390 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: the octopus, whether it is real or not, has never 391 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: been proven to exist. But some allegations did become fact. 392 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: Aron Contra became a real scandal, and uh, then congressional 393 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: investigations into the Department of Justice and Inslaw returned with 394 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: findings that Congress itself did not agree with and in 395 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: and for a long time litigation dragged on between Inslaw 396 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: and the Department of Justice, and the October Surprise became 397 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: a big thing. Well I guess it kind of rocking 398 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: it up into a big thing, but it was still 399 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: never proven, right yeah, it's still alleged. Uh. And then 400 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, and let's pause here just for a second, 401 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: because I have to ask you, how much of this 402 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: would you say? Uh, thanks, Lisa, October Surprise. On contrary, 403 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: these things that pop up around election time or to 404 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: take down a president, how many of these things are 405 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: genuine and how many are manufactured political crises? This always 406 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, I've been watching House of Cards and thinking John, Yeah, 407 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: well yeah, okay, so is strictly in my opinion, I 408 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: would say that powerful people will use means to get 409 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: what they want or need. Um, yeah, they'll use all 410 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: kinds of different means. But I don't necessarily think, I 411 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: don't know putting lives in danger in that way. Specifically 412 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: for the October surprise, I have to remain skeptical just 413 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: to just to not go hide in a whole somewhere. Well, 414 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: if we did, okay, just come with me, we did 415 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: a cost benefit analysis. Let's say you're pressure right, you're 416 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: going to be president. Would you want to take the 417 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: risk of something going wrong? Because if something goes even 418 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: just a little bit wrong, your can't Your career is 419 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: going to be messed up, I suppose. And if I 420 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: have the means and the assets to manage the situation, 421 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: I guess I would. All right, So before we go 422 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: to some feedback from our listeners who have written in 423 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: to us from around the world and thank you guys, 424 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 1: I gotta ask Matt, tell me if you don't want 425 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: to go on record saying this, if the octopus will 426 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: get us, do you think this is a conspiracy theory 427 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: or a conspiracy fact? And do you think Danny Castilero 428 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: took his own life or do you think he was murdered. 429 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: I'll answer these two, all right, Okay, it's fair. Well, 430 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: I would have to say, I know the feeling, and 431 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: I've seen it so many It's cropped up for so 432 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: many of the people that we've talked about who have died, 433 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: who have committed suicide, at least according to the official record, UM, 434 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: who go on record to their friends and family and 435 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: say that I will never commit suicide, and then they do, 436 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: at least according to the record, And that just that 437 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: alone makes me suspicious. UM, I would have to say, 438 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: I personally don't think he committed suicide. Okay, all right, 439 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: I see, I see what you're saying. UM. With whether 440 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: or not this is a conspiracy theory or if there 441 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: is a large factual basis behind it. What I've been 442 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: looking for and what I think you and I have 443 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: both been looking for as we as we look through 444 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: this case, as we researched and dug into various things, 445 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: UM is some more connective tissue. I really enjoy that 446 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: phrase you use, because it is completely possible that various 447 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: things can happen drug activity, weapons trades, being manufacturer on 448 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: Indian reservation and and proxy companies and stuff. Like that, 449 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: it's completely possible that those happen without being related. And 450 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: as for whether Danny Castelero was murdered that night or 451 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: whether he committed suicide, I'm gonna have to say that 452 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: the unless there's more information that I don't have, the 453 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: notion that he committed suicide does seem abnormal to me. 454 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: It's it's um, skepticism goes both ways, you know what 455 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: I mean. And this is not to say that people 456 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: don't uh don't do things like this without for warning, 457 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: you know, and um, of course we remain open minded. 458 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: If there's more to the story. Perhaps there were some 459 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: warning signs that Castelero showed beforehand, you know, the red 460 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: flags or yellow flags of someone having suicidal ideation. But 461 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: with the knowledge we have, with what we've checked, um, 462 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: it does seem suspicious. But again again we go back 463 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: his the body was examined not once but twice, and 464 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: both times it was His body was, however, embalmed before 465 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: the family was even made aware that he was dead, 466 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: which is interesting at least that's according to his brother 467 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: Um from that Australian broadcast. Here's the one last thing 468 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: I would want to add, Ben for someone to if 469 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: someone killed Danny Castle Arrow, I would say that it doesn't. 470 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that the octopus in total has to 471 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: be real. All it means is that one of the things, 472 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: one of the tentacles, had to be real and dangerous 473 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: enough for him to be investigating that he would warrant 474 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: someone taking his life. So just the fact, even if 475 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: he truly did not commit suicide, it doesn't necessarily prove 476 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: that the octopus exists. Right. Yeah, that's a really good 477 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: point man. And speaking of really good points, we would 478 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: like you guys to make a few Let us know 479 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: what you think about this whole octopus mega conspiracy. Is 480 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: it all bunk? Is it all true? Is there a 481 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: spectrum and this and this story falls somewhere in between? Um? 482 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: What do you think, if anything could finally determine the 483 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: truth of this story or is it even possible to 484 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: Is this just a story? Um? Of course you can 485 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: read numerous articles. Wired has some great stuff on that 486 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: Time magazine as well about people who believe that they 487 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: are cracking down on this case or tracking it. And um, 488 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: we're just very interested to hear what you have to 489 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: say about it. And that's right. Find us on Facebook. 490 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy stuff. We're also at conspiracy stuff on Twitter. 491 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: You can always go to our YouTube channel, which is 492 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: also conspiracy stuff, or our brand new website Stuff they 493 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: Don't Want you to Know dot com. And hey, while 494 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: you're at it, why don't you go to our mother website, 495 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com. You can learn about everything. 496 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: They're not just conspiracies. Sure, you can learn about everything, 497 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: from other obscure and fascinating historical tales to the nature 498 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: of tech and the future. Everything is science related pretty much. 499 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: And just to prove that, just to prove to you 500 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: how much we enjoy listener mail, Matt, you wanna check 501 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: out a tweet, Let's do it, okay, Matt. Today's tweet 502 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: comes to us from our friends Zombie combat Diver, who says, hey, 503 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff. Uh, looking at all the zombie lore. Why 504 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: aren't there zombie animals? Well, I'm gonna feel this one 505 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: if you don't mind, Ben, Yeah, take it away. Well, 506 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: first of all, hello, Eric, Uh? Oh is that okay? Oh? Yeah, 507 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: you guys met each other? I r L Is that correct? Yeah? 508 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: He may or may not work in our building. And 509 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: he drives the coolest vehicle that I've ever seen in 510 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: my life. Definitely a living person, though not a zombie. 511 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: Not a zombie good good to know. Well, I would 512 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: have to say there have been at least lore of 513 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: animal zombies. All you have to do is check out 514 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: Resident Evil any of that for chise. It shows you 515 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: that many there's a virus that infects all living beings, 516 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: including spiders and snakes, everything in between. Although there isn't 517 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: much There isn't much old folklore of zombie animals. I 518 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: guess I think maybe it has something to do with 519 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: to be a zombie. It has something to do with 520 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: losing consciousness, losing humanity. Yeah. Well, uh, that's a great point, Matt, 521 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: and I think I can dovetail onto this a little bit. 522 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: The most apparent example I can think of would be 523 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: the undead animals in pet Cemetery the novel, not the film, 524 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: which is fine, Which is fine. Um, they don't explain 525 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: why they spell it that way in the novel either, 526 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: But you are right, there does seem to be kind 527 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: of a dearth of folklore. Maybe for something to be 528 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: an undead thing, it has to have a humanity, uh, 529 00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: to lose. But to add another interesting addition here, um, 530 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: it is true that there are numerous animals that can 531 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: enter a deathlike state and then be resurrected. You know. 532 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: They're frogs that will just tough out a drought in 533 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: the dry mud of a river bed. Um. There are 534 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: other animals that can be put And now I'm not 535 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: talking about a bear hibernating or something, because it still 536 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: has life signs that you can monitor. But it is um. 537 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: It is possible that people thought it was a normal 538 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: thing for some animals just to die and come back 539 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: when the water returns. But it is possible that people 540 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: in the past may have seen some of these animals 541 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: and just thought it was normal for them to quote 542 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: unquote die and then return to life. Um. And that 543 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: is if our show we have a whole bunch of 544 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: tweets that we would like to answer on air with 545 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: some excellent questions. I have a little special then, Yeah, 546 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: I think it might be time that for a listener 547 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: question special, which we'll we'll come up with a way 548 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: better sounding type. Yeah. One more thing just in case 549 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: you are not intoxicated. Alleged alleged and a legend. Yes, yes, yes, allegedly. 550 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: That was our plan all along, right that, yes man, 551 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: when we came in here we allegedly had a plan, 552 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: but then I don't know, it just went out the 553 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: supposed window. Or we just one small part of a 554 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: much larger planned Spanny generations. And that's the end of 555 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions 556 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 1: about this episode, you can get into contact with us 557 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. One of the best 558 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: is to give us a call. Our number is one 559 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: eight three three std w y t K. If you 560 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can send us a 561 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart 562 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know 563 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 564 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio at the i heart Radio app, 565 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.