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Speaker 1: We are getting a hot headline from the Bloomberg terminal.

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Speaker 1: Bank of Japan sets policy rate in a range between

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Speaker 1: zero to ten basis points, so a big move and

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Speaker 1: scrapping the ill curve control program. So the sources at

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Speaker 1: the nie K seem to be well placed. Martin, what

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Speaker 1: reaction might you have to what we're learning now?

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Speaker 2: This is what we were expecting. So we got kind

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Speaker 2: of glad that it actually happened, and we didn't get

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Speaker 2: a kind of shock. Oh no, no, they are not

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Speaker 2: doing anything. They chose a perfect timing more or less.

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Speaker 2: So this seems to be quite welcome by markets who

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Speaker 2: have been tested before. So let's see how Japan is

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Speaker 2: now working with the normalization.

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Speaker 3: We're not actually seeing a huge change in dollars yen.

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Speaker 3: We're moving at the moment one fifty or so, so

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Speaker 3: that's pretty steady. And also in terms of the nie ke,

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Speaker 3: we'd have been on the lunch break, so very interesting

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Speaker 3: to see how those things move. We're getting these flashes

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Speaker 3: now now every couple of seconds. We have David in Glace,

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Speaker 3: one of our market correspondence and also an anchor on

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Television with us in the studios. David your early

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Speaker 3: thoughts on what we're seeing in markets.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a counterintuitive move. We're seeing in the yen.

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Speaker 4: We're weaker in fact here point three percent. And this

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Speaker 4: is to your point, Brian. We're moving really on the

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Speaker 4: second here, a couple of other headlines coming through. So

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Speaker 4: we know most of these because of all the leaks

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Speaker 4: that have taken place. Right, So, they've scrap yield curve control,

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Speaker 4: they've raced rates for the first time since two thousand

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Speaker 4: and seven. They've tweaked their acid purchases as well. Nothing

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Speaker 4: so far I could be mistaken. Still here, they've also

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Speaker 4: ended buying ets. Now just taking a step back, right,

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Speaker 4: So I was having a look at some market measures

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Speaker 4: going into this meeting today, and what really called my

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Speaker 4: eye were yen ten year swaps. And you look at

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Speaker 4: how behaved that gauge has been. In fact, that was

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Speaker 4: really bid up substantially in previous meetings on the back

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Speaker 4: of expectations of what we'd get. What we did get

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Speaker 4: right now, that's actually you remained in range. In fact,

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Speaker 4: the spread and this is going to sound like Greek,

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Speaker 4: but I'll explain it in a bit. The spread between

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Speaker 4: the ten year swap and a tenure yield is actually

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Speaker 4: now back to the narrowest since the Fed started raising

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Speaker 4: interest rates in twenty twenty two, which tells me the

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Speaker 4: market was expecting this. It's number one and number two.

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Speaker 4: It looks like for now the BOJ is done right.

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Speaker 4: We'll have a separate conversation on what whether or not

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Speaker 4: they need a second rate hike, but for now it

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Speaker 4: seems like they've done what they needed to do.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, and bond buying will continue. We're getting a hot

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Speaker 1: headline that the BOJ will continue buying jgbs with broadly

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Speaker 1: the same amount as before. What is missing here is

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Speaker 1: obviously a target in the yield curve here. I mean, so,

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Speaker 1: are they going to be much more clandestined in moving

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Speaker 1: in the marketplace? Are they going to be less transparent?

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Speaker 1: What do you think it?

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Speaker 5: I think again, no one's surprised by this news. Dollar

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Speaker 5: yen's not moving anywhere, because on purpose, we were all

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Speaker 5: told what was going to happen. No. I think they're

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Speaker 5: going to favor a managed information process where they don't

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Speaker 5: want to shock the market in a way. They've achieved

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Speaker 5: exactly what they wanted here, Delian. Actually nothing's changed. They're

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Speaker 5: getting out of buying ETFs, because that's a long term

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Speaker 5: problem for them how to unwind the ETF purchases. You

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Speaker 5: can always buy more bonds, and I remember having this

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Speaker 5: conversation with guys on the BOJA ten years ago. They

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Speaker 5: can hold a bond until it runs out. Disposing of

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Speaker 5: an ETF is a different issue altogether, and I believe

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Speaker 5: this indicates some level of confidence by the way that

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Speaker 5: consumers are returning to buying equities and they don't have

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Speaker 5: to engage in that behavior any further.

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Speaker 3: It is interesting that the vote was not unanimous. It

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Speaker 3: was seven to two to scrap the negative interest rate.

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Speaker 3: That's closer than what some people expected. Martin. Can we

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Speaker 3: read anything into that or is that something that you

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Speaker 3: know you'd figure on a move as big as this,

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Speaker 3: that there might be a little dissent.

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Speaker 6: Not really.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are people who are just looking at

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Speaker 2: the economy, and the economy has been slowing. So if

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Speaker 2: you would be just looking and well reading the data,

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Speaker 2: looking only in your domestic economy, then there is a

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Speaker 2: good reason to keep policy more expansionly, not to increase

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Speaker 2: interest rates. On the other hand, the Bank of Japan

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Speaker 2: has been driven and the government has recognized that as

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Speaker 2: well by the very weak yend. So this is an

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Speaker 2: important variable that you don't have to take, but it

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Speaker 2: affects policy. Plus by sentiment overall that well, the economy

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Speaker 2: is normalizing, the policy should be normalized as well. This

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Speaker 2: is the overwhelming mood around well people in industry and

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Speaker 2: also in the Bank of Japan.

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Speaker 1: You know, ed made an interesting point David and Glace

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Speaker 1: about the effect that the equity market is having maybe

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Speaker 1: on the to community in Japan, and I'm wondering if

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Speaker 1: you can imagine how that may have impacted the thinking

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Speaker 1: at the BOJ when you're looking at an ek that's

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Speaker 1: not far from an all time high.

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Speaker 4: Interesting a question. In fact, this came up about two

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Speaker 4: hours back on the TV show Man Group was on,

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Speaker 4: and certainly to your point at this point in the

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Speaker 4: rally forty thousand, right, you know how you know what

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Speaker 4: exposure to you this one one with the in the

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Speaker 4: Japanese equity market. And the interesting point from our guest

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Speaker 4: is that is the biogen what they're doing. Now you

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Speaker 4: could look at that as simply a symptom of the

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Speaker 4: underlying change that's taking place in the economy. Right, Two

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Speaker 4: things there, right, One is the economy is normalizing, right,

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Speaker 4: so they enter this ultra aggressive policy stands I think

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Speaker 4: thirteen years ago. I just joined Bloomberg then, and that

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Speaker 4: was when Caroroda was coming in April of course, twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 4: that's when they embarked in this. And you know, eleven

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Speaker 4: years after that they've managed to achieve two percent, right,

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Speaker 4: which and they're coming out with in fact guidance and

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Speaker 4: inflation they're saying will likely remain above two percent through

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Speaker 4: fiscal twenty twenty four. But here's the interesting part too.

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Speaker 4: They've also downgraded their assessment on consumer spending and production.

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Speaker 4: So job done, but job done not just yet. So

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Speaker 4: the part I'm trying to make is what exposure does

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Speaker 4: one want for man group? They think it's time to

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Speaker 4: go to small caps because that's the part of the

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Speaker 4: equity market that might not be as exposed to a

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Speaker 4: stronger yet in case the yen strengthens from here.

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Speaker 3: So the end hasn't really moved all that much at

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Speaker 3: the moment, trading at one forty nine eighty four, so

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Speaker 3: it's actually weakened a little here, and that's a pattern

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Speaker 3: that we've seen. Nick had been lower but now is higher,

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Speaker 3: moving up around about ninety five points or so a

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Speaker 3: quarter of one percent. Let me go back to ed

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Speaker 3: Rodgers in terms of looking at the equity market that

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Speaker 3: question that David was dressing earlier about whether or not

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Speaker 3: it's getting close to being tapped out. I think you

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Speaker 3: were one one of the first ones who told me

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Speaker 3: that in looking at Japanese companies, they're sort of like

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Speaker 3: a warrant on global growth. Do you think that the

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Speaker 3: games that we've seen in the nik are signaling a

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Speaker 3: little bit that global growth is coming back.

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Speaker 5: I think there's optimism, yes, and definitely that small MidCap

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Speaker 5: space in Japan has in many ways been a harbinger

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Speaker 5: and foreshadowing of a global global you know, to play

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Speaker 5: on the global economy in many respects. I'll still stand

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Speaker 5: by those statements.

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Speaker 6: The kind of.

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Speaker 5: Leveraged if you will exposure you can get in that

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Speaker 5: space for certain parts of the globe economy are absolutely real.

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Speaker 5: And the differentiation that we're going to now see in

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Speaker 5: that space is also I think going to be real.

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Speaker 5: You know, some of those companies that won't have access

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Speaker 5: to chief capital or free money anymore, it's going to

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Speaker 5: have impact on their businesses. You know, in addition to

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Speaker 5: other things, you know, lack of labor and other things.

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Speaker 5: You can talk about a lot of things, but oh yes,

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Speaker 5: I'd still stand by those datements.

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Speaker 1: Ed Rodgers is the CEO also CIO of Rogers Investment Advisors,

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Speaker 1: joining us as we continue our special coverage of the

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Speaker 1: BOJ decision, with the Bank of Japan hiking interest rates

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Speaker 1: a target range night between zero and ten bases points.

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Speaker 1: The BOJ also ending yield curve control, the last country

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Speaker 1: essentially to exit negative interest rates. Joined by Bloomberg's Brian Curtis,

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Speaker 1: co host of Daybreak Asia, Day to Dating, Glace is

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Speaker 1: with US, host of one of the Bloomberg TV shows

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Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, and Martin Schulz is with US chief

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Speaker 1: economist at Fujitsu. Martin, we were talking a moment ago

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Speaker 1: about the drag that the Chinese economy, the weak Chinese economy,

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Speaker 1: is having on Japan. You know, recently there's been a

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Speaker 1: little bit of conversation about the parallels between what China

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Speaker 1: may be facing now in deflation and what Japan has

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Speaker 1: been struggling with for what's seems like three decades.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: Do you think policymakers in Beijing have really looked at

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Speaker 1: the mistakes that Japan may have made over the last

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Speaker 1: thirty years and are learning from them absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I mean the Japanese how to deal with a real

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Speaker 2: estate of financial bubble has been one of the main

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Speaker 2: cases in any textbook. The Chinese government is very well

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Speaker 2: aware that their growth model, with a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: investment into infrastructure investment in particular, has been driving the

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Speaker 2: economy and this needs to change towards more consumer spending,

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Speaker 2: towards a more domestic driven economy that is focusing on technology,

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Speaker 2: on digital digital technologies. This is what they've been focusing on.

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Speaker 2: They have been studying the Japanese case very very well.

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Speaker 2: The problem is it remains to be hard. Such a

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Speaker 2: change is really a significant problem. China knows it will

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Speaker 2: have to expand well it exports somehow, which will have

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Speaker 2: to go into Asia. We should expect to see this

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Speaker 2: in the future, and that they have to deal with

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Speaker 2: the well more technology driven companies that have been growing

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Speaker 2: so much. This is why the policy makers are probably

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Speaker 2: so very careful with their technology giants. They are not sure.

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Speaker 2: They know that they have to rely on them, but

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Speaker 2: they are not sure if they can control them. Figuring

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Speaker 2: out the right way forward. Here will be a major

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Speaker 2: major challenge for policy makers in China over the next

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Speaker 2: few years.

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Speaker 3: David's something we touched on a little bit earlier in

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Speaker 3: this hour when we were waiting on the bog announcement.

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Speaker 3: We were sort of musing over what might happen with

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Speaker 3: the holdings, the existing holdings of ETFs and reads. Now

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Speaker 3: we see today that they have scrapped the purchases of

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Speaker 3: these and we understand they haven't actually been buying all

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Speaker 3: that much of late, but they still have those large holdings.

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Speaker 3: We put it to the other guests, what might happen.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that it's sizeable enough that it could

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Speaker 3: weigh on the levels of the equity market injine And

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Speaker 3: if they start to sell now? And would they.

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Speaker 4: Good question if I had If I had the answer,

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Speaker 4: I'd be sitting on a sunny beat somewhere else with

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Speaker 4: a very expensive cocktail.

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Speaker 3: We can't get inside their minds, can't wait.

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Speaker 4: The interesting thing though, is the is the vote on

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Speaker 4: the purchases right, So it seems that the vote on

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Speaker 4: policy is seven to two and two, yeah, but it's

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Speaker 4: eight to one on JGBS on the purchases as well,

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Speaker 4: So that you have a slightly more slightly larger majority

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Speaker 4: there if you will on ETFs, I mean you have

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Speaker 4: an incremental buyer now right. You know, I haven't done

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Speaker 4: the math, but you do have an incremental buyer outside

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Speaker 4: of BOJ at the moment. And I'd still be interested

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Speaker 4: to see what they'll do with all the jgb's under

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Speaker 4: balance beat right, and they can hold that for a.

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Speaker 3: Veran It wouldn't be interesting if they set up a

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Speaker 3: scheme just like the FED in QT when they finally

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Speaker 3: decide to dispose of a lot of what they've bought

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Speaker 3: that it just becomes kind of like machine.

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Speaker 4: Like, Yeah, and shrinking the balance sheet. Right, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 4: a good point because the Feds tomorrow and something else

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Speaker 4: that came up on shows today. You look at what's

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Speaker 4: happening in the US equity market, you look at risk assets,

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Speaker 4: you look at crypto, You look at where copper is

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Speaker 4: eleven month highs, you look at oil at four month highs, SMP.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't seem that what the Fed's telling us is true,

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Speaker 4: you know, if it's been saying policies restrictive enough. You

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Speaker 4: look at markets, it looks like there's enough liquidity out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree with that, Martin. I know that

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Speaker 1: you've been with us for much of the hour, and

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you, Martin Schulz, a chief economist

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Speaker 1: at Fujitsu, for joining us on our special coverage of

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Speaker 1: the decision from the Bank of Japan at Rogers of

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Speaker 1: Rogers Investment Advisors. Stay with us. I'm looking at the

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Speaker 1: WEI function now in the Bloomberg terminal. We're seeing a

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Speaker 1: weaker NK down only two tenths of one percent and

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Speaker 1: the end pulling into one forty nine sixty five thereabouts,

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Speaker 1: with a loss against the greenback of about three tenths

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Speaker 1: of one percent. But if you look inside the NK

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Speaker 1: right now, anything that's interest rates sensitive, real estate, utilities,

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Speaker 1: financial shares push to the upside. Seeing a little bit

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Speaker 1: of weakness in healthcare and consumer discretionary. David, you were

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Speaker 1: making a point earlier about the relative strength of the

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Speaker 1: n K, and I'm wondering whether or not we should

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Speaker 1: kind of read into that that maybe at the margins

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Speaker 1: had something to do with the decision today on the

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Speaker 1: Bank of Japan.

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Speaker 4: Most likely in fact the NICK and also when they

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Speaker 4: look at the Bank's index right because the Topics Bank

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Speaker 4: index has really been a boj trade that's actually up

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Speaker 4: right now, I'm getting more details on the statement, and

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Speaker 4: you know what this is actually looking And I could

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Speaker 4: be wrong, and the next yards could prove me wrong.

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Speaker 4: We'll see what they say in the press briefing. But

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Speaker 4: the headlines that are coming through right now are tilting

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Speaker 4: this narrative more in favor of this being actually a

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Speaker 4: doubvish move. Right, So fine, first rate hikes in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and seven, and notwithstanding it's just barely above zero,

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Speaker 4: but the bog is coming out and saying that they

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Speaker 4: had increased GG be buying if rates writes rapidly, So

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Speaker 4: it's looking like they'll be there to keep rates steady.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's that's what we thought was the case,

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Speaker 3: because if you scrap everything, you know, you might have

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Speaker 3: yields running to the upside. So when I saw that

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Speaker 3: Nick story that they would continue with government bond purchases

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Speaker 3: but scrap YCC, it gives them more control in the market.

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Speaker 3: It gives them the freedom to get in there and

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Speaker 3: buy you know, when and where they see, and they

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Speaker 3: can they can guide the yield to a level that

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Speaker 3: they feel comfortable with. And we were speculating what would

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Speaker 3: that level be, you know, would it be one percent,

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Speaker 3: would it be one and a half percent. Let's go

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Speaker 3: back to ed Rodgers ed anything that you've been seeing

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Speaker 3: here in some of the latest flashes that catch your attention,

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Speaker 3: that that might show that the market is somehow in

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Speaker 3: or out of favor with what the boj would like

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Speaker 3: to see.

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Speaker 5: So I got the same we I open. I got

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Speaker 5: the say, btmm, interest rates aren't really moving.

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Speaker 3: It bounce around a little bit, you know from playing.

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Speaker 5: But this is such a non event, which because we've

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Speaker 5: all been predicting it for a while, and they told

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Speaker 5: us what the trigger was going to be like when

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Speaker 5: you saw the wage the conclusion of the wage high, right,

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Speaker 5: it was kind of obvious. Now we're there. What the

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Speaker 5: other thing I'm watching on Bloomberg is, you know every

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Speaker 5: grand loses seventy eight billion dollars. You know, it's eight

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Speaker 5: times the accounting fraud, you know, the Enron's and the

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Speaker 5: world comms. And I think we should be thinking a

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Speaker 5: lot more about what a potential China implosion looks like

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Speaker 5: visa of each Japan Wow, and everybody else by the

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Speaker 5: way too, because there is there is you know, if

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Speaker 5: you go back to the late eighties and the early nineties.

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Speaker 5: When Japan's trouble started, there were a lot of people

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Speaker 5: that would tell you, yeah, well there's one set of

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Speaker 5: boats and another set of boats, and not a whole

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Speaker 5: lot of good disclosure going on at the national level.

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Speaker 5: You know, Japan's a really good, clean, easy place to

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Speaker 5: do business now for the most part, as is the

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Speaker 5: United States again for the most part. I think China

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Speaker 5: is a real question, and I think we've touched on

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Speaker 5: a couple of times. But if you really want to

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Speaker 5: think about ripple effects, I think that's where you start

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Speaker 5: to think about where the big next big ripple effects

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Speaker 5: might be felt. And I agree with I think Martin

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Speaker 5: was saying, you know, the Chinese have sort of been

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Speaker 5: studying Japan for a long time about what happened with

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Speaker 5: their real estate. It was a real estate driven crisis,

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Speaker 5: right nine, the peak was a real estate driven crisis.

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Speaker 5: Here you look at two thousand and United State, it's

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Speaker 5: a real estate crisis. So the impact of a real

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Speaker 5: estate crisis on a large economy, I don't know if

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Speaker 5: anybody's ever really done all the right studies about the

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Speaker 5: level of political, social, and economic impact when it's something

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Speaker 5: that big, and you know that's the bloombird screen. I've

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Speaker 5: been reading a lot of them this morning.

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Speaker 1: No doubt about that.

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Speaker 5: It's already priced in. It's already priced in.

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Speaker 1: It's already priced in well telegraphed. I think you're not surprising,

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Speaker 1: but well telegraphed. Nick Smith is with us. He is

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Speaker 1: Japan strategist at CLSA. On the line, Nick, your reaction

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Speaker 1: to this move by the BOJA to essentially do everything

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Speaker 1: that the knee k said the BOJ would.

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Speaker 6: Do well, I've been warning of this for quite a while.

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Speaker 6: I got the three hikes right last year and said

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Speaker 6: that would be coming out of negative rates today. So

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Speaker 6: exactly has forecast the questions what you do with your

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Speaker 6: equities from here on in. I mean I've been very

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Speaker 6: long banks her for quite a while and done extremely

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Speaker 6: nicely out of them. The questions whether they underperform like

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Speaker 6: they did after the first rate hike in two thousand

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Speaker 6: and six, or whether they keep going. I think that

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Speaker 6: the BOJ hasn't finished this. I think there's a certain

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Speaker 6: amount of contrition from the Bank of Japan that they

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Speaker 6: have been waterboarding the economy for quite some time, and

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Speaker 6: that's the speech of seven December, when they're saying, sorry,

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Speaker 6: we crushed net interest income in the household sector, in

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Speaker 6: the financial sector. Certainly didn't help in the corporate sector

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Speaker 6: because they don't have debt anymore, and so they're essentially

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Speaker 6: they were essentially saying, we messed up. We didn't expect

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Speaker 6: it to go on for as long as that. We

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Speaker 6: knew that the longer we do it, the more it

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Speaker 6: hurts the economy. And therefore they've been signaling for quite

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Speaker 6: some time they'll get out on this. I think think

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Speaker 6: there's possibly more to come.

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Speaker 3: Nick, we were sort of musing at the beginning of

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Speaker 3: this week, you know, what would have the bigger impact

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Speaker 3: on markets? Would it be the Bank of Japan call today?

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Speaker 3: Would it be the Nvidia Developers conference or the FED?

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Speaker 3: Given that you know, we got a lot telegraphed from

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Speaker 3: from the BOJ, through the Nike and through Kyoto on

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Speaker 3: what might happen today, I'm just curious whether you think

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Speaker 3: maybe what your own pal says in the next twenty

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Speaker 3: four hours could be the most important.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, obviously, in terms of the currency, this

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Speaker 6: is a relatively small impact. In fact, it's sending the

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Speaker 6: currency in the wrong direction. Rates have gone up, and

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Speaker 6: yet the currency is weakened. What's going to be important

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Speaker 6: for the currency is clearly going to be the FED,

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Speaker 6: and that the cuts we've been expecting from the Fed.

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Speaker 6: I think people are getting less and less confidence that

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Speaker 6: they'll get the number and size of them that they'd

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Speaker 6: thought some while ago. That's why we're staying weak. I mean,

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Speaker 6: the main thing with the end is it effects emotions.

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Speaker 6: The effect on profits is nowhere close to what most

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Speaker 6: people think it is.

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Speaker 1: Let's get back to Ed Rogers very quickly. For the

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Speaker 1: last time, Ed and few had had take a guess

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Speaker 1: at what the FED is going to do in terms

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Speaker 1: of forecasting future rate cuts this year, are you in

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Speaker 1: the seventy five basis point in terms of total cuts

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Speaker 1: this year? Are you leaning more towards fifty My.

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Speaker 5: Guess that it would be lower than seventy five. If

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Speaker 5: you're going to put a gun in my head and

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Speaker 5: make me tick, you're going to be a bit more gradualist,

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Speaker 5: because I think there's a lot more concern and uncertainty

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Speaker 5: in that in that regard in the United States about

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Speaker 5: what exactly impact will be.

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Speaker 3: Where to go, David, let me put this question to

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Speaker 3: you then about the environment. We've had earnings and that

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Speaker 3: has driven stock market gains in the US and people

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Speaker 3: have set aside macro policy a little bit. Now you've

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Speaker 3: got uh, the FED coming in in the next day,

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Speaker 3: and we really are at the end of the earnings

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Speaker 3: for this season. Did we start to fret a little

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Speaker 3: bit more about rates and levels of inflation?

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Speaker 4: Well, let let's well, let's see what the dots look

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Speaker 4: like first, right, and let's see what the thinking there said.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's a very good point. Let me

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Speaker 4: rephrase that. You know, markets have done well despite the

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Speaker 4: fact that we pushed back in rate high expectations, right, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and the fact that.

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Speaker 3: And that's because of earnings. Earnings have been pretty solid.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I think that the Nvidia story overnight just to

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Speaker 4: crowbar that in the crowbar that in right. So the

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Speaker 4: issue for Nvidia, if you had to pick one, that

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Speaker 4: price for perfection was of a company that pretty much

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Speaker 4: as a monopoly on you know, a very narrow set

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Speaker 4: of very wealthy and large big buyers, and demand seems insatiable, right,

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Speaker 4: And the question there was was that new trip blackwell,

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Speaker 4: I think was what the chip was called. Does that

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Speaker 4: then widen enough the customer base for Nvidia to justify

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Speaker 4: those the valuations. We put that question earlier on to

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Speaker 4: one guest and he said, yeah, no problem, in Vidia.

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Speaker 1: Still buy Nvidia.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, to answer your question, you buy you. It's

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Speaker 4: equity markets. If in Nvidia keeps doing what it does,

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Speaker 4: as it represents, of course a narrow pool of other equities,

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Speaker 4: well maybe that.

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Speaker 3: Well, my feeling was I was tempted to think that

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Speaker 3: the equity market could move sideways to down here because

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Speaker 3: the focus would be more on the FED and interest

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Speaker 3: rates and inflation. That's a little stickier than what people

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Speaker 3: had hoped for them, say a month ago, and that

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Speaker 3: since you don't have earnings, you're not going to hear

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Speaker 3: less about Nvidia and and AMD and some of these,

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Speaker 3: and you know, the nervousness might come back in. You know,

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Speaker 3: just some final thoughts from you before we wrap up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say watch China right if if if one

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Speaker 4: is up the view that global equities will do well,

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Speaker 4: you sell one hand to buy the other. You know,

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Speaker 4: India's done very well last year. A lot of fun

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Speaker 4: flowers are selling India and slowly coming back into China.

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Speaker 4: How long that lasts? Nobody knows, but it's I guess

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Speaker 4: in some ways it's zero sum game, just looking at

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Speaker 4: from that specific perspective.

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Speaker 1: Nick Smith very quickly, Japan's strategist at cs l C

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Speaker 1: L s A, what's your strategy on putting money to

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Speaker 1: work in Japan? Very quickly.

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Speaker 6: I think that what we're going to have from here

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Speaker 6: on in is continued inflation with continued negative real rates,

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Speaker 6: which means real estate companies could continue to do very well.

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Speaker 6: We'll have a short period of out performance for the

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Speaker 6: for the banks, but they're they're a trade dunekake falling

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Speaker 6: in love with them. They're not not quality. But mostly

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Speaker 6: I'd be saying stick with the hair with high dividend Dealders,

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Speaker 6: that's the only way of getting a real return in

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Speaker 6: the country where bums are such big negative real returns.

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Speaker 1: So glad it worked out that you could join us, Nick,

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Speaker 1: don't be a stranger. We'll have to have you on

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Speaker 1: the Daybreak Asia radio program in the near future. Nicholas Smith,

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Speaker 1: Japan strategist at CLSA, Ed Rogers as we wrap up

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Speaker 1: final thoughts.

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Speaker 5: Ultimately, I think this is a good thing and this

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Speaker 5: should be a positive signal for Japan getting back to

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Speaker 5: a more normal ish interestrate environment and more normal you

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Speaker 5: know tools if you will, or responses, maybe it's a

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Speaker 5: better word on the part of the BOJ. Is ultimately

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Speaker 5: a fine of health and this should be viewed as such.

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Speaker 5: It's fairly robust. Japan looks pretty good right now and

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Speaker 5: this is I think more signs that things are looking

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Speaker 5: good for Japan and.

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Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure. Thank you so much for making

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Speaker 1: the chime to join our special coverage of the bo

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Speaker 1: j's policy decision ed Rogers CEO c IO at Rogers

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Speaker 1: Investment Advisors as the BOJ hikes rates were the first

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Speaker 1: time since two thousand and seven, the policy rate now

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Speaker 1: in a range of zero to positive ten basis points.

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Speaker 1: We've been at negative ten basis points, it seems like,

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Speaker 1: for quite some time, and that will do it. I'm

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Speaker 1: thanking David Anglace from the TV side at Bloomberg Television

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Speaker 1: and Brian Curtis, co host of Daybreak Asia in Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong as well. This is Bloomberg