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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops tonight here at the Vallume.
Speaker 2: Have you Friday?
Speaker 1: Everybody hopeful?
Speaker 2: If you guys are having an incredible week, we got
Speaker 2: an amazing show for you. Today. We're gonna do a
Speaker 2: good old fashioned obituary on the Los Angeles Lakers. Technically
Speaker 2: it's not over, but I have a feeling they're gonna
Speaker 2: get swept on Saturday. I don't think they have the
Speaker 2: fight to beat these guys, especially after how they looked
Speaker 2: in that third quarter.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll be wrong, maybe they'll get one.
Speaker 2: But no matter what, NBA history tells us that the
Speaker 2: Los Angeles Lakers are done. So we're gonna talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about what separates them from the Denver Nuggets
Speaker 2: and where they go from here. And I can't think
Speaker 2: of anybody better than a good friend of mine and
Speaker 2: somebody who covers the Lakers for the athletic mister Jovan Buha.
Speaker 2: You guys know him. He's been on the show a bunch.
Speaker 2: We're gonna break it all down, you guys know the
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Speaker 1: Least before we get started.
Speaker 2: As I've been saying, this is the time of year
Speaker 2: when you got to get out and see these guys
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Speaker 2: It's certainly on the table. And like as great as
Speaker 2: it is watching these games on TV, there's nothing like
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Speaker 2: So in this you know, obviously disappointing start to this series,
Speaker 2: I think it's also been deeply informative. It's been confirming
Speaker 2: of some of the things that we've thought throughout the season.
Speaker 2: But I want to kind of start with the Nuggets
Speaker 2: a little bit because in the Lakers pursuit of trying
Speaker 2: to address these issues, whether it's them trying to reconfigure
Speaker 2: around Lebron in ad this offseason to try to make
Speaker 2: another run at it, or if it's a pivot, I
Speaker 2: think a great team for them to try to emulate
Speaker 2: is the Denver Nuggets, a team that I think is
Speaker 2: not just the defending champion, but I think the legitimate
Speaker 2: favorite this year for a reason, and a team that
Speaker 2: I believe has a real chance to go on an
Speaker 2: extended dynastic run here. And So, what has this series
Speaker 2: taught you about the difference between a real championship team
Speaker 2: like the Nuggets and the Lakers.
Speaker 3: Well, to me, it's been the killer instinct of the
Speaker 3: Denver Nuggets. Before the game, I asked Nuggets head coach
Speaker 3: Michael Malone, you've beaten this team ten straight times, Like,
Speaker 3: how do you battle the complacency with your group, just
Speaker 3: not thinking we're going to show up and beat this
Speaker 3: team because we've done it head times in a row,
Speaker 3: and at some point human nature starts to kick in
Speaker 3: with a certain level of complacency, even in a playoff setting.
Speaker 3: And he essentially said, you know, as a coach, that
Speaker 3: is what I have to battle and that the message
Speaker 3: has been. We were down twelve in game one, we
Speaker 3: were down twenty in Game two. We're now on the road,
Speaker 3: We're facing a hostile crowd, and you know, the Lakers
Speaker 3: want to beat us after losing ten straight times. So
Speaker 3: like the messages, don't get off to a slow start,
Speaker 3: don't turn the ball over, and keep the crowd out
Speaker 3: of the game, and the Nuggets did none of those
Speaker 3: things to start that game. The Lakers got off to
Speaker 3: an eight zero run. The crowd was as loud as
Speaker 3: I've heard it all season. It was deafening pitch, and
Speaker 3: it was the start that the Lakers needed if they
Speaker 3: were going to win a game against the Nuggets. And
Speaker 3: lo and behold my opinion, Denver had their worst half
Speaker 3: of the series in that first half of Game three,
Speaker 3: turning the ball over, missing open threes, and really just
Speaker 3: struggling on both ends, yet they were only down four.
Speaker 3: Then they opened the second half with a twenty four
Speaker 3: to ten run, And to me, this team has just
Speaker 3: won the mental game against the Lakers. They have gotten
Speaker 3: stronger in second halfs. They've outscored the Lakers by thirty
Speaker 3: one points through the three third quarters in this series,
Speaker 3: plus forty two overall in the second half, So we've
Speaker 3: seen it. The Lakers have thrown their bench their best
Speaker 3: punch early and they've gotten out to these double digit leads.
Speaker 3: They've led at halftime in all three games. They've led
Speaker 3: at halftime in seven of the eleven consecutive losses to Denver,
Speaker 3: and then Denver just takes over in the second half.
Speaker 3: It's the same movie on repeat, but for Denver to
Speaker 3: have that level of just killer instinct and seriousness and
Speaker 3: professionalism and lack of complacency to do the same thing
Speaker 3: over and over again, and regardless of Lebron's getting downhill
Speaker 3: in transition eighties cooking them with fourteen consecutive made shots
Speaker 3: in Game two, like they don't care. They run their
Speaker 3: offense the same way. Everybody is locked in. They play
Speaker 3: team basketball on both ends, and you don't see guys complaining.
Speaker 3: You don't see guys pointing figures, you don't see guys
Speaker 3: going at the refs, and they just play a serious
Speaker 3: brand of basketball. It reminds me a lot of ways
Speaker 3: of the San Antonio Spurs and the way that they
Speaker 3: built that dynasty of it didn't matter who's doing what.
Speaker 3: Obviously you had Tim Duncan as the head of the snake.
Speaker 3: In this case it's Nikola Jokic. You had Tony Parker,
Speaker 3: and Jamal Murray is the analog there. But just the
Speaker 3: level of no matter what's happening, they're never rattled and
Speaker 3: that's why you see them close a game to making
Speaker 3: seven consecutive shots against the Lakers, like they are one
Speaker 3: of the best crunch time teams I've ever seen period.
Speaker 3: I think, like we could talk about where they rank
Speaker 3: all the time, and I think they're higher than I
Speaker 3: think most people would assume at this point. But to me,
Speaker 3: the crunch time, the focus, and just the mental advantage
Speaker 3: that they've had on the Lakers through these eleven straight wins,
Speaker 3: that to me has been what has stood out the most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that specific piece about that first half
Speaker 2: and that being one of the worst halfs they've have,
Speaker 2: they've played, I agree as it pertains to their ceiling,
Speaker 2: but their floor is still so high.
Speaker 1: And that first half.
Speaker 2: Was really a great example in the sense that like,
Speaker 2: no matter what whether or not Mpj's hitting the threes
Speaker 2: he normally hits or if Jamal Murray and Nikole Jokic
Speaker 2: and their kind of decision making is as sharper as
Speaker 2: sloppy as it can get from time to time, Like
Speaker 2: Aaron Gordon is still six ten for key athlete and
Speaker 2: working underneath the basket and so like, even though like
Speaker 2: even if you look within that first half, like the
Speaker 2: Lakers were sharp in a lot of areas in that
Speaker 2: first half, but a specific area where they were weak
Speaker 2: is Lebron James on the back line was just doing
Speaker 2: a really poor job of reading. Reading that there is
Speaker 2: a read and react with that low man position in
Speaker 2: the sense that like there you do have help responsibilities,
Speaker 2: but you also have Aaron Gordon responsibilities, and you kind
Speaker 2: of have to tow that line between the two. And
Speaker 2: for the record, in the first two games, I thought
Speaker 2: Lebron was really good in that role. But I don't
Speaker 2: know if it was just I don't know if Lebron
Speaker 2: lost faith after the collapse in Game two. I don't
Speaker 2: know if it was just literally just a bad night,
Speaker 2: but literally from the opening tip, he just wasn't as
Speaker 2: sharp in that specific area, and so like it's like
Speaker 2: the Lakers had all these areas kind of tied up
Speaker 2: in that first half, but that one opening Aaron Gordon
Speaker 2: just smashed through and Don Mad the first half of
Speaker 2: that game right, Like there was a like Jamal Murray,
Speaker 2: even though he was relatively unefficient throughout the series, inefficient
Speaker 2: throughout the series, he just had these little stretches in
Speaker 2: each series where he was really good. I thought a
Speaker 2: shot making was really good in the third quarter of
Speaker 2: Game one, obviously, down the stretch and crunch time of
Speaker 2: Game two. I thought in the second quarter, early second
Speaker 2: quarter of Game three, he just hit a bunch of
Speaker 2: timely shots, right. And like, one of the things with
Speaker 2: Denver is their floor is so high that like even
Speaker 2: if you managed to kind of outplay them for stretches,
Speaker 2: as soon as you dip and if they just start
Speaker 2: to gain ground, right, And then honestly, I thought Denver
Speaker 2: threw a really good punch in that early third quarter
Speaker 2: stretch and then you could just literally see the Lakers
Speaker 2: like go of the rope. And that's where I want
Speaker 2: to get to the part you talked about with being
Speaker 2: serious and being professional, because that, to me was the
Speaker 2: biggest thing that stood out to me about this particular matchup.
Speaker 2: The stuff about floor versus ceiling, That to me is
Speaker 2: more of a total first round kind of like take away.
Speaker 2: In general, I think we're learning that like players with
Speaker 2: higher floors are more valuable in the postseason than players
Speaker 2: with higher ceilings. KCP doesn't have the ceiling that de
Speaker 2: Lo has, but night and night out in the playoffs,
Speaker 2: he's just a more impactful player.
Speaker 1: His floor is higher.
Speaker 2: Right, But as we go to the seriousness when it
Speaker 2: comes to the Nuggets, they're one of the most important
Speaker 2: parts about a championship championship team in my opinion, is
Speaker 2: like the discipline and focus on a possession by possession
Speaker 2: basis by each player within what their job is and
Speaker 2: what they're expected to do. Aaron Gordon after the game
Speaker 2: talked about this like, I'm just doing what my team
Speaker 2: needs to win. He dominated that game, not by dominating
Speaker 2: offensive possessions, not by being this devastating on ball defensive
Speaker 2: threat that was just putting his on his offensive player
Speaker 2: in jail. No, he just his job within the scheme
Speaker 2: is to kind of like clean up stuff on the
Speaker 2: back line offensively and clean up stuff on the back
Speaker 2: line defensively. And and like he just capitalized on what
Speaker 2: was happening within that game and he kind of broke
Speaker 2: through that opening like we talked about, right, he did
Speaker 2: his job and within that context, he was the hero
Speaker 2: of that particular game. But he wouldn't trying to be
Speaker 2: the hero. He's just doing his job. Every single one
Speaker 2: of these guys has a job. Even Michael Porter Junior,
Speaker 2: as gifted as he is offensively, like, one of the
Speaker 2: most important roles he has on this team is he's
Speaker 2: a dominant rebounder. And that's what they got forty nine
Speaker 2: points and twenty five rebounds out of Michael Porter Junior
Speaker 2: and Aaron Gordon last night.
Speaker 1: That's completely insane.
Speaker 2: And when you look over at the Lakers side of it,
Speaker 2: it's like there's always these random possessions where a random
Speaker 2: player will just kind of bite off more than he
Speaker 2: can chew offensively and take an overly difficult shot. There
Speaker 2: is like ten to fifteen possession stretches where they're really
Speaker 2: laser focused on all the details, and then there's ten
Speaker 2: to fifteen possession sequences where they're not. It's not a
Speaker 2: consistent part of their basketball character. And when you talk
Speaker 2: about professionalism and serious basketball, to me, it's about that
Speaker 2: possession by possession, do your job every single time. If
Speaker 2: you see them make a mistake or go off script,
Speaker 2: it's usually like they'll do it once and then Mike
Speaker 2: malonill lose his mind and yell at them, and then
Speaker 2: and then they're right back on track by the next possession,
Speaker 2: And like that just was not you know it ironically,
Speaker 2: and this is the last thing I'll say about it,
Speaker 2: it ironically reminded me of just the entire Laker regular season,
Speaker 2: which was like, if you caught them on the right
Speaker 2: night and you watch them, you're like, this team has
Speaker 2: championship potential. Look at how serious these guys are, look
Speaker 2: at how focused they are. This is what they're capable of.
Speaker 2: But then two nights later against Brooklyn, they would just
Speaker 2: be terrible, you know, like they were never a team
Speaker 2: that could hold on to the rope consistently, like a
Speaker 2: real championship team for the entirety of the season, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And so within these games, if
Speaker 2: you watched a ten minute sequence, you'd be like, man,
Speaker 2: the Lakers are right there with Denver. But then eventually
Speaker 2: they'd let go of the rope and Denver's serious approach
Speaker 2: would take over. And I think it was really really informative,
Speaker 2: not just about what the Nuggets are and what makes
Speaker 2: them so great, but also just like team building and
Speaker 2: coaching and different aspects like that that I think set
Speaker 2: set that that are preventing the Lakers from getting where
Speaker 2: they need to go. On that note, kind of moving
Speaker 2: towards the role players, obviously that was the biggest gap
Speaker 2: in this series. I pulled the numbers last night. I'll
Speaker 2: pull them up again here in just a second, but
Speaker 2: it was a complete and total outclassing by the guys
Speaker 2: down the roster. As a matter of fact, non Lebron
Speaker 2: ad Lakers had one hundred and thirty one points and
Speaker 2: fifty six rebounds through three games. Non Murray Jokic Nuggets
Speaker 2: had one hundred and eighty points and eighty three rebounds.
Speaker 2: So what did you learn specifically about the Laker role
Speaker 2: players in this series and where do you think they
Speaker 2: fell short compared to the championship baseline.
Speaker 3: First, to me, the Lakers are just too small, and
Speaker 3: that was a concern for me entering the season, and
Speaker 3: I think that has played out specific in this matchup.
Speaker 3: If you look at the starting lineups and compare them
Speaker 3: head to head at each nominal position, the Nuggets have
Speaker 3: the size and physicality advantage at all five spots. Nikola
Speaker 3: Jokic is bigger and stronger than Anthony Davis. Aaron Gordon
Speaker 3: is bigger and slightly stronger than Lebron James. I think
Speaker 3: they're pretty similar, but he's slightly bigger, taller.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's about an inch taller.
Speaker 3: And like I mean, in terms of who's won the
Speaker 3: paint battle, battling for rebounds and stuff, like, Aaron Gordon
Speaker 3: has dominated that.
Speaker 1: So Michael Porter Junior is not as.
Speaker 3: Strong as Ruy Hutchimra, but he's taller than him, and
Speaker 3: he has dominated the rebounding battle.
Speaker 1: Last you just mentioned it.
Speaker 3: Last night, MPJ had ten rebounds, Ruyu Chimra had two,
Speaker 3: and MPJ did play more minutes, but it was about
Speaker 3: a ten minute difference, so it wasn't like enough of
Speaker 3: a difference to warrant the eight rebound gap.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 3: Austin Reeves and KCP are similar sizes, but KCP plays
Speaker 3: with more verve and physicality and just more athleticism. And
Speaker 3: then D'Angel Russell versus Jamal Murray, I think that that
Speaker 3: one I don't even have to go into. But Jamal,
Speaker 3: you know, similar sizes again, but Jamal plays with a
Speaker 3: certain level of toughness and physicality.
Speaker 1: So like just that's before you even get to get
Speaker 1: to the bench.
Speaker 3: And like Peyton Watson, Christian Brown, these guys are coming
Speaker 3: in hounding ball handlers, getting offensive rebounds, blocking shots, finishing
Speaker 3: in transition. So like I thought the Lakers got dominated
Speaker 3: from I mean, we talked about the mental side, and
Speaker 3: clearly Denver has them in a psychological choke hold there.
Speaker 3: But on the physical side, like Denver is just bigger,
Speaker 3: they're stronger, they're more athletic, and they use their physicality
Speaker 3: in a better way. Like I think something that hasn't
Speaker 3: been talked about enough is Denver's won the free throw
Speaker 3: battle in two of these three games, and like that's
Speaker 3: supposed to be one of the few strengths the Lakers
Speaker 3: had over Denver was they get to the free throw
Speaker 3: line way more than them. They don't foul as much obviously,
Speaker 3: so like the Lakers. I know you've touched on the
Speaker 3: free throw differential before, but like that is an advantage
Speaker 3: for the Lakers, you know, based on how they play
Speaker 3: offensively and how they don't foul. Yeah, Denver's won the
Speaker 3: free throw battle in two of the three games. They've
Speaker 3: won the points in the paint battle in two of
Speaker 3: the three games. So Denver has beaten the Lakers like
Speaker 3: they've they've played their style of basketball, but they've also
Speaker 3: beaten the Lakers at their own game. And when the
Speaker 3: Lakers have played smaller front lines or like size front lines,
Speaker 3: they dominate them and they kick their ass and they
Speaker 3: look great. When they play a team that's bigger than them,
Speaker 3: it's been the opposite. And I think for me, the
Speaker 3: fact that the Jackson Hayes was a dnp CD in
Speaker 3: Game three just shows like the Lakers never really addressed
Speaker 3: the backup center spot. Jackson had some nice moments over
Speaker 3: the last couple months of the season. Christian Wood, to me,
Speaker 3: like never really panned out and shot thirty one percent
Speaker 3: on threes, had some good moments as like a rebounder,
Speaker 3: and defensively, they think about like Kevin Durant against the Suns,
Speaker 3: but like that was the beginning of the season, and
Speaker 3: I think Christian Wood overall was a bit of a disappointment.
Speaker 1: So the fact that the.
Speaker 3: Lakers never really added another big man that was defensive minded,
Speaker 3: you know, a clear plus rebounder, a guy who could
Speaker 3: just inning Z for eight to fifteen minutes and spell
Speaker 3: Ad and defend Jokich and give him a few hard fouls,
Speaker 3: similar to what Dwight Howard did in the twenty twenty series.
Speaker 3: Like that, to me, what was a weakness of this
Speaker 3: roster and the fact that Ruy Hachimura in an elimination games,
Speaker 3: playing twenty eight minutes and you're going small with Torrian
Speaker 3: Prince at the four, or you're going with these three
Speaker 3: guard lineups and you're giving up all these offensive rebounds
Speaker 3: and again just getting physically dominated. Like part of that's
Speaker 3: on the coaching staff and the way that they're deploying
Speaker 3: these guys, but part of that is a roster construction issue.
Speaker 3: So to me, biggest takeaway overall was just too small,
Speaker 3: but also I think just not good enough. And if
Speaker 3: we're ranking the starting lineups in terms of the best
Speaker 3: players in the series, like five through seven, five through
Speaker 3: eight might be all of the rest of the Nuggets
Speaker 3: starting lineup and the fact that they arguably have the
Speaker 3: two best players in the series depending on you know,
Speaker 3: especially in crunch time with Jamal, but like they have
Speaker 3: the best player. Jamal has outplayed Lebron and eighty for stretches,
Speaker 3: and then you have Aaron Gordon, CACP and MPJ all
Speaker 3: thoroughly out playing Austin Dilo and RUI like that just
Speaker 3: can't happen. And I don't think the bench outplayed LA's
Speaker 3: bench like I think Christian Brown and Peyton Watson have
Speaker 3: been more impactful than anyone off the Lakers bench, just
Speaker 3: with again their defense, their rebounding, their energy, and their
Speaker 3: finishing and transition, so like from top to bottom, and
Speaker 3: then the coaching the adjustments like Denver has decisively won this.
Speaker 3: I think it's even been more of a gap than
Speaker 3: the scoreboard indicates. So I just think Denvers is bigger
Speaker 3: and they're better.
Speaker 2: No, I agree the piece about the role players off
Speaker 2: the bench, actually, like Christian Brown and Payton Watson kind
Speaker 2: of brings me back to that seriousness and professionalism piece,
Speaker 2: Like those two guys just come in and it's like
Speaker 2: all we need you to do is be athletic wrecking
Speaker 2: balls within the context of these specific responsibilities on the floor,
Speaker 2: those dudes come in and they buy in and they
Speaker 2: do it. And so once again, those guys have a
Speaker 2: certain flow, like you can expect Christian Brown and Peyton
Speaker 2: Watson to have a certain amount of impact just with
Speaker 2: their athleticism. Whereas it's like Okay, Spencer Dinwood he checked in.
Speaker 2: It's like maybe these threes will go in, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's and and we'll see what happens, right. I
Speaker 2: also the bit about Jackson Hayes, like in the in
Speaker 2: the moment last night, I'm sitting there thinking like this,
Speaker 2: to me was one of the fundamental issues with Darvin
Speaker 2: Haam during the entire darvinham experience. And we're gonna talk
Speaker 2: about Darvin in a bigger context later, but he just
Speaker 2: always defaulted more towards offensive skill and speed and and
Speaker 2: not towards size and athleticism. And I thought last night,
Speaker 2: when the chips were down, him being like, no Jackson,
Speaker 2: just a lot more three guard lineups was a pretty
Speaker 2: strong indicator of like Darvin's kind of basketball philosophy, which
Speaker 2: I think is flawed. And then also like that within
Speaker 2: this particular matchup that that was the death Wish. And
Speaker 2: one of the problems too, is you know, the Lakers,
Speaker 2: just their guards weren't playing well, so like you're leaning
Speaker 2: into guard play when your guards are getting their ass kicked.
Speaker 2: It didn't make any sense to me in the moment.
Speaker 2: But you know you mentioned size. I agree. I think
Speaker 2: it's a little deeper than size, and it I would
Speaker 2: just call it like overall physicality in the sense that
Speaker 2: it's not just height, it's even at these specific position
Speaker 2: these positions, these guys play with more force, like you
Speaker 2: mentioned KCP versus Austin Reeves like Austin, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: talk about Austin rue Like I thought Austin and Ruey
Speaker 2: were trying to do their jobs. I just thought they
Speaker 2: didn't play well. Like Austin and Ruiy Bolth just had
Speaker 2: nightmare series. I saw that clip of Austin hugging Phil
Speaker 2: Handy and it looked like he said, it's my fault,
Speaker 2: and like you could just tell he was heartbroken. And
Speaker 2: I felt bad for Austin because, like Austin really defended
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray well for the first seven quarters of this series,
Speaker 2: and I thought he did his job he just couldn't
Speaker 2: make shots. And ruly, I thought was given a really
Speaker 2: difficult role too to guard Jokich to start the series,
Speaker 2: and you could tell that kind of sap to him
Speaker 2: of his confidence and then he was just never able
Speaker 2: to regather it. But like other than those guys, it
Speaker 2: was a lot of unseious basketball. But above and beyond that,
Speaker 2: it was the lack of physical force that they could
Speaker 2: bring to the table. KCP brings physical force, Aaron Gordon
Speaker 2: brings physical force. MPJ with his length, brings physical force
Speaker 2: to the table. Christian Brown brings physical force. Peyton Watson
Speaker 2: brings physical force. Austin doesn't. That's not in his toolkit.
Speaker 2: Delo doesn't. That's not in his toolkit. Ruy does. But
Speaker 2: they stuck him consistently in matchups in this series where
Speaker 2: he couldn't, you know, because they were using they're basically
Speaker 2: using him to eat up minutes right on Jokis for
Speaker 2: about half the series to this point. But like Spencer
Speaker 2: Dinwoodie is probably the best athlete of the role players,
Speaker 2: and he's not a very good athlete, right Gabe Vincent
Speaker 2: has a certain force that he brings, but he's just small,
Speaker 2: you know, And so like that. That to me was
Speaker 2: the big thing that stood out. It just is like
Speaker 2: down the roster, there's just not enough physical force. And
Speaker 2: when you go back and you look at the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty Lakers, that was a huge element of what made
Speaker 2: them great. Alex Crusoe, Contavious Callwell, Pope, Dwight Howard, Kyle Kuzma,
Speaker 2: that was a huge part of what made them great.
Speaker 2: Even Danny Green, it was just a big, strong two guard, right.
Speaker 2: And you know, honestly, it was funny when I was
Speaker 2: looking back, when I look back at kind of the
Speaker 2: the last few years, even if you just erase one
Speaker 2: singular mistake, like there was a lot of panic trades
Speaker 2: and stupid stuff that happened over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: But if they had just held on to Crusoe, if
Speaker 2: they had just held on to Crusoe, which by the way,
Speaker 2: wouldn't have cost you any asset or anything. It would
Speaker 2: have just cost money out of Genie Bus's pocket, a
Speaker 2: lot of money because of the luxury tax, but money
Speaker 2: and money that probably she would have recouped through the
Speaker 2: success of the team, in my opinion, So if they
Speaker 2: just had Carusoe, and your lookoking at Austin Alex as
Speaker 2: your back court instead of Austin Dilo fundamentally changes the
Speaker 2: athletic profile of the team, slots everybody into easier roles defensively, Now,
Speaker 2: instead of Austin have to chase around to Jamal Murray,
Speaker 2: it's Alex Cruso chasing around Jamal Murray. And instead of
Speaker 2: d LO and him be uh, you know, space case
Speaker 2: space cadet trying to chase around KCP, it's Alex or
Speaker 2: excuse me, it's Austin Reeves, who's a very focused defender
Speaker 2: who would be guarding KCP. And then everything makes so
Speaker 2: much more sense. And so, I you know, there's a lot,
Speaker 2: there's a lot to dig into with the eulogy here,
Speaker 2: but like that that piece, that piece about physical force
Speaker 2: off the ball, especially when the content within the context
Speaker 2: of the physicality of the postseason shines through. What did
Speaker 2: you make of Dlo's night last night? Where are you
Speaker 2: at with DLO as a player, and where do you
Speaker 2: think the team and the organization is at with Delo
Speaker 2: right now?
Speaker 3: I mean, I just don't know how you can move
Speaker 3: forward with the on this roster if you consider yourself
Speaker 3: a serious championship contender. Or at least have serious championship aspirations,
Speaker 3: because this is now two out of the three games
Speaker 3: in this series where he's been harmful, and I think
Speaker 3: he was actually probably more harmful in Game one because
Speaker 3: he was taking possessions away from Lebron and Ady and
Speaker 3: to me, calling his own number a little bit too frequently,
Speaker 3: and you know it did have a poor shooting night,
Speaker 3: but I thought more so, I thought inside the arc
Speaker 3: this series, he was oddly you know, kind of calling
Speaker 3: it like looking for those little mid range pull ups
Speaker 3: and step backs and fadeaways that he never was able
Speaker 3: to create separation with. So they always ended up being
Speaker 3: either you know, contests from the front side or rear
Speaker 3: view contests where a KCP a Christian Brown and Peyton
Speaker 3: Watson were able to stick with him, slither around the
Speaker 3: pick and roll and then bother him from behind. So
Speaker 3: I thought, like, the three point shooting is what it is,
Speaker 3: Like he got a bunch of good looks, didn't convert,
Speaker 3: But to me, him kind of calling his own number
Speaker 3: in the pick and roll what was ultimately harmful and
Speaker 3: he just was never able to create the separation necessary
Speaker 3: to make those shots. Because to me, Dilo is a
Speaker 3: guy who does need a level of separation and if
Speaker 3: you can get into his airspace, you were going to
Speaker 3: bother him, as we've seen in this series. But to me,
Speaker 3: it's been six of the seven games in these in
Speaker 3: the last two playoff series against Denver, like he was.
Speaker 3: I mean, go back and look at the Western Conference Finals.
Speaker 3: He was bad in all four games. He's been bad
Speaker 3: in two of the three games got bench last night.
Speaker 3: There was the video clip of him off to the
Speaker 3: side of the huddle. He does do that sometimes, but
Speaker 3: I think optically that was a terrible time to do that,
Speaker 3: and he just looked incredibly disengaged at that point. He
Speaker 3: ducked out on media last night. We requested him, he
Speaker 3: declined to speak. He also declined a couple times in
Speaker 3: the Western Conference Finals, declined at times earlier this season.
Speaker 1: So like when he's not.
Speaker 3: Playing well and things aren't going well, he kind of
Speaker 3: ducks out. And I think that just that in the
Speaker 3: the like, you know, and he's.
Speaker 1: Not like we talked about.
Speaker 3: You just mentioned Austin and Ruey and how those guys
Speaker 3: just had tough series, like but they were still trying
Speaker 3: and trying to do their job and being competitive and
Speaker 3: I think I look at Austin of like how much
Speaker 3: has defending Jamal Murray and chasing him around screens and
Speaker 3: getting smacked by Nikola Jokic, but in screens, like how
Speaker 3: much has that sapped his legs and affected him? And
Speaker 3: I think Austin He's had a couple of games, a
Speaker 3: couple of good rebounding games. He's been competitive defensively, and
Speaker 3: I think even though he's miss shots, he's brought the
Speaker 3: requisite competitiveness and spirit that has not been the case
Speaker 3: with de Loo, and you've seen him shrink. I think
Speaker 3: in both Game one and Game three, and even in
Speaker 3: Game two, I thought he got off to a hot start,
Speaker 3: obviously had the six threes in the first half, ends
Speaker 3: up making seven, but had a very quiet second half
Speaker 3: and rest of the way.
Speaker 1: So I just I think this is exposed.
Speaker 3: A bit of the ceiling on the Austin del pairing.
Speaker 3: I think those two probably have to be split up,
Speaker 3: as we had kind of talked about at times this season.
Speaker 3: I don't think you can have those two be your backcourt.
Speaker 3: I think a guy like an Alex Caruso or someone
Speaker 3: with a bit more force and maybe a bit more
Speaker 3: defense would fit better next to an Austin But to me,
Speaker 3: like you and I talked about this, and I will
Speaker 3: read through the comments on our videos and sometimes there
Speaker 3: are people going at us. For you, guys don't like Delo.
Speaker 3: Delo is clearly the third best player, Like I don't
Speaker 3: want to hear that anymore.
Speaker 1: You will never the third best player. Just get the
Speaker 1: fuck out of here with that.
Speaker 3: Austin Reeves is better than Austin. Reeves is better than him.
Speaker 3: He's a better playoff performer than him. And it's not
Speaker 3: to make it in Austin Delo thing. It's just that
Speaker 3: there was a reason why we were talking about the
Speaker 3: Lakers trading him. There's a reason why the Lakers were
Speaker 3: strongly considering trading him for most of the season. So
Speaker 3: in terms of where they go from here, Dealo has
Speaker 3: an eighteen point seven million dollar player option. I think
Speaker 3: he's cost himself money with this series. I think you
Speaker 3: can still make the case he's a twenty to twenty
Speaker 3: five million dollars a year player. I don't know if
Speaker 3: that is a twenty to twenty five million dollar player
Speaker 3: on a good team, on a contending team.
Speaker 1: I don't think it is.
Speaker 3: But if you're a lottery team or a team looking
Speaker 3: to kind of take the next step into maybe we're
Speaker 3: a nine to ten seed and we want to be
Speaker 3: like a seven to eight seed. I think Dealer makes
Speaker 3: sense for you, So I would not be surprised if
Speaker 3: he still has a competitive market this summer. But if
Speaker 3: you're the Lakers and you are serious about trying to
Speaker 3: win a championship, I do not see how you can
Speaker 3: make any reasonable argument to bring back D'Angel Russell when
Speaker 3: you know Denver's not going anywhere. They're gonna be here
Speaker 3: for the next three to four years and you're gonna
Speaker 3: have to go through them to win a championship. And
Speaker 3: I just don't think he can play in a series
Speaker 3: against Denver, which is really like a conference finals final series.
Speaker 3: I think it's fine first round, second round against normal teams,
Speaker 3: and even then he's a bit of up and down
Speaker 3: against serious, high level conference finals finals teams.
Speaker 1: I don't think you can play him.
Speaker 3: And that's a problem for a guy that the Lakers
Speaker 3: have been kind of billing as their third guy, and
Speaker 3: he's just completely shrunk.
Speaker 1: And this is, honestly, that's surprising.
Speaker 3: We saw it last year, We've seen it at times
Speaker 3: with him in the playoffs, and I think the Lakers,
Speaker 3: whether it's a sign and trade, whether it's letting him walk,
Speaker 3: or whether it's he opts in and trading him, Like,
Speaker 3: I think you have to move on. It's just a
Speaker 3: matter of how that happens and when it happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when it comes to del I think
Speaker 2: that I think you and I both were aware of
Speaker 2: this going in into the postseason. If you go back
Speaker 2: to the trade deadline, you and I both talked about
Speaker 2: like we already know that this Austin Delo pairing has
Speaker 2: a certain ceiling to it. And by the way, going
Speaker 2: into the season, going into the regular season, you and
Speaker 2: I were like, Lakers are a second tier championship contender,
Speaker 2: and if they make a trade to address the Austin
Speaker 2: Delo pairing, which we knew was flawed after the Denver
Speaker 2: series last year, then they might be able to enter
Speaker 2: into that top tier if they were to get a
Speaker 2: Bruce Brown, if they were to get a Dejontay Murray,
Speaker 2: a real athletic two way player at that two guard position, right, Like,
Speaker 2: how much better would de Jontay Murray have been in
Speaker 2: this series for for the Lakers to try to.
Speaker 1: Try to hang.
Speaker 2: Just think, just think about what we watched over the
Speaker 2: last three games and replaced d LO with Dejontay Murray,
Speaker 2: and just imagine how different the series looks. It's very,
Speaker 2: very different on so many different levels. Right, Not only
Speaker 2: does Jonte guard Jamal Murray the whole series, He's a
Speaker 2: guy that brings dribble penetration, which would have helped a
Speaker 2: lot within these half court kind of slow down environments
Speaker 2: that the the two man game that him and Lebron
Speaker 2: could have had in a lot of these situations, it
Speaker 2: would have been it would have been really effective.
Speaker 1: Right Now, here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about the deadline per se, because here's
Speaker 2: the thing I think the I think the Lakers went
Speaker 2: after de Jonte and couldn't get him. So I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to criticize the front office in that
Speaker 2: specific context. My point is is just we knew Austin
Speaker 2: Dilo had a ceiling, and we knew that if they
Speaker 2: could have upgraded d LO they would have been better off.
Speaker 2: They couldn't because of the landscape. And I don't think
Speaker 2: they could have gotten Bruce Brown either, just by virtue
Speaker 2: of the price tag.
Speaker 1: And all this stuff.
Speaker 2: So you and I kind of went into this postseason
Speaker 2: knowing like like they got their puncher's chance if you
Speaker 2: happen to get a really hot Delo performance, But there's
Speaker 2: not really much there. And like the what's really stood
Speaker 2: out to me with Delos he took his humiliation at
Speaker 2: the hands of Bruce Brown last year and he took
Speaker 2: it into the offseason and worked on his ceiling.
Speaker 1: Worked.
Speaker 2: I think, he worked on his jump shot, he worked
Speaker 2: on some of his pick and roll playmaking stuff, and
Speaker 2: he definitely won up a level this year. Delo played
Speaker 2: the best basketball of his career in the springtime, there's
Speaker 2: no doubt, but he never addressed his floor. And this
Speaker 2: is where I think the criticism is fair, because Delo
Speaker 2: talked a big game. Not only in this series did
Speaker 2: he say after Game two that he thought that they
Speaker 2: were still gonna win. But if we go back a
Speaker 2: few months after a big night, he talked about how
Speaker 2: he wanted all the smoke straight up said it. He
Speaker 2: said he wanted all the smoke go back to the
Speaker 2: beginning of the season. He was in the the training
Speaker 2: camp pressers, the media day interview saying the guy I
Speaker 2: want to emulate is Derek White. He's the guy I
Speaker 2: want to be like, No, you don't. Derek White didn't
Speaker 2: didn't put in work to address his own individual ceiling.
Speaker 2: Derek White's floor is what makes him great. It's all
Speaker 2: about his focus and attention to detail in the margins
Speaker 2: of the game, not how good he is running a
Speaker 2: pick and roll or how good he is attacking closeouts
Speaker 2: or hitting spot up threes. That's not what made Derek
Speaker 2: White great. And so Dilo talked about all this stuff,
Speaker 2: but it's abundantly clear with what happened that he doesn't
Speaker 2: actually get it. And because he leaned into his ceiling,
Speaker 2: there was a certain volatility with him. And it's interesting
Speaker 2: because if you actually go back, the Lakers have played
Speaker 2: a bunch of big games in a row. They've played
Speaker 2: seven massive regular season games or eight massive games in
Speaker 2: a row. Right, you have the Golden State game, Delo
Speaker 2: was abysmal. You have the Minnesota game, Dilo was abysmal,
Speaker 2: and those were really important games. If you win one
Speaker 2: of those games, you're the sixth seed and you're playing
Speaker 2: Minnesota right now, and I would have picked the Lakers
Speaker 2: to beat Minnesota. You win one of those games, Okay,
Speaker 2: instead you get two stinkers.
Speaker 1: He doesn't play well.
Speaker 2: Right, plays really well against the Pelicans in both games, Right,
Speaker 2: we can agree on that. Then he's a bismal in
Speaker 2: game one, pretty good in Game two, abismoal in game three.
Speaker 2: So like four times in this last seven game stretch
Speaker 2: where they were playing all of these monumentally important games,
Speaker 2: he was not just bad, but like damaging bad. And
Speaker 2: that's the problem is it's not the ceiling. We all
Speaker 2: know what d Lo's ceiling is. His floor is just
Speaker 2: so incredibly low. And when we talk about the offseason,
Speaker 2: I actually disagree with you as it pertains to him
Speaker 2: being a twenty twenty five million dollar player. Maybe I'll
Speaker 2: be wrong, and maybe it'll be a bad team that
Speaker 2: swoops in and offers him some money. I do think
Speaker 2: he has some value as a regular season skill guard,
Speaker 2: a lot of value as a regular season skill guard.
Speaker 2: I think, on a you can probably bank on fifty
Speaker 2: pretty good games out of him, and that's going to
Speaker 2: give you a chance to hold some ground in the standings.
Speaker 2: But like when I really look at an NBA team
Speaker 2: looking at skill guards that are not necessarily guys that
Speaker 2: you're going to lean on and you're closing five in
Speaker 2: a big playoff game. The market last year for that
Speaker 2: type of player that was kind of the Gabe Vincent
Speaker 2: Dennis Schroeder tier, right like, and those guys were making
Speaker 2: the mid level exception, that's what they were making.
Speaker 1: And so here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I think if Delo opts out right right right now,
Speaker 2: I think he's on the books for nineteen million next year,
Speaker 2: like eighteen and a half million next year. So like yeah,
Speaker 2: so like if some team offers him three years for
Speaker 2: thirty six or two years for twenty five or something
Speaker 2: like two years for twenty four, whatever it is that
Speaker 2: the MLE, I think that'll be a deal that he
Speaker 2: potentially looks to take because I think after next year
Speaker 2: it's possible that he enters into the veteran minimum contract
Speaker 2: territory if it, like with some of his limitation, right,
Speaker 2: But like, I don't know that he'll get twenty to
Speaker 2: twenty five. Maybe he will. But like if I'm if
Speaker 2: I'm looking at d Lo as an asset league wide
Speaker 2: next year, I'm looking at him as a sixth man,
Speaker 2: a guy that is clearly not in my top five.
Speaker 2: So that I know that when push comes to shove.
Speaker 2: I'm closing with my closing group, but I can make
Speaker 2: some night Tonight calls with him with his minutes based
Speaker 2: on whether or not he's engaged in hitting shots. And
Speaker 2: most more importantly, I'm using him as a regular season
Speaker 2: innings eater, So I think there's some value there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't, I don't. I think I agree
Speaker 1: with you entirely.
Speaker 2: If you're a serious basketball team, you cannot you cannot
Speaker 2: have this guy in your top five players.
Speaker 1: You just can't like it.
Speaker 2: Just he doesn't get it. He doesn't get it, And
Speaker 2: like I thought, the best example of that was him
Speaker 2: talking about Derek White before the season as his own
Speaker 2: little player comp and then his lack of attention to
Speaker 2: detail in the margins of the game during this postseason run,
Speaker 2: Like I think, I think it's been. It could not
Speaker 2: be more stark, the difference between what he's actually doing
Speaker 2: on the floor and the game that he talks. And
Speaker 2: I think that that goes to show you that there's
Speaker 2: actually a disconnect mentally between where Delo needs to improve
Speaker 2: and where Delo thinks he needs to improve. And I
Speaker 2: think those are going to be areas that kind of
Speaker 2: hold him back moving on, to the to the offseason.
Speaker 2: So obviously the Lakers have a lot of questions to address.
Speaker 2: I want to start with Darvin. So here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I don't think Darvin is responsible for the Lakers losing
Speaker 2: to Denver. I do think he's responsible for the Lakers
Speaker 2: having ended up as the seventh seed. I've said this
Speaker 2: on the record, but like, I think his mistakes with
Speaker 2: the rotation in late December and early January probably cost
Speaker 2: the Lakers three four games in the standings. Even if
Speaker 2: it's just two or three games, you're out of the plane.
Speaker 2: So like, I think they would have been in that Clippers, MAVs, Suns,
Speaker 2: Wolves kind of tier there in the or I should
Speaker 2: say Clippers, Suns, MAVs tier in that four through six range, right,
Speaker 2: And I think I think that that is fair criticism
Speaker 2: of darviin I you think the reason they lost to
Speaker 2: Denver is Denver's a better basketball team. That said, I
Speaker 2: do think you saw some of the the jarring elements
Speaker 2: of Darvin kind of being in over his head in
Speaker 2: this series. An example Number one, Mike Malone super active
Speaker 2: coaching on the sidelines, accountability with his players every time
Speaker 2: someone makes a mistake. He's screaming at him.
Speaker 1: He's yelling.
Speaker 2: There's accountability, there's active coaching on the sidelines. Darvin is
Speaker 2: very much passive, staying in their hands, in his pockets.
Speaker 2: He's very much like a positive kind of motivator type
Speaker 2: of guy, right And which which, by the way, just
Speaker 2: like like you, there's a certain intensity and verve that
Speaker 2: you're expecting from the players, And I think it makes
Speaker 2: sense that the coach kind of matches that. Watch Eric
Speaker 2: Spolster on the sideline, how is he coaching? How animated
Speaker 2: is he? Watch Greg Popovich on the sideline? How animated
Speaker 2: is he? Watch you know, Tyron Lew on the sideline.
Speaker 2: Watch these guys on the sideline, and you'll see the
Speaker 2: difference in just their overall level of engagement with the
Speaker 2: team compared to compared to what Darvin brings. Secondly, just
Speaker 2: a a basketball ideology that doesn't match your personnel. I'm
Speaker 2: a big believer in like a coach has to be
Speaker 2: very careful with his individual ideologies inflicting them on a
Speaker 2: roster if the roster's not capable of it. So, for instance,
Speaker 2: Darvin's kind of obsession with speed, quickness and skill at
Speaker 2: the guard position and kind of leaning into that. That's
Speaker 2: not the strength of this roster. They do not have
Speaker 2: a guard corps that is particularly fast, that is particularly
Speaker 2: good defensively, and that is star caliber and offensive creation.
Speaker 2: And so all you're really doing is playing a bunch
Speaker 2: of small guys that can't defend and can't score. And
Speaker 2: he had athletes on the roster, he had options that
Speaker 2: he could go there.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest.
Speaker 2: Strengths of this like a roster, they got some big athletes,
Speaker 2: ruy Lebron, Ad, Jackson, Hayes. He could have leaned into
Speaker 2: those lineups as much as possible, and I thought him
Speaker 2: kind of leaning into Again, we always talk about adversity
Speaker 2: brings out like the true nature of who you are
Speaker 2: as a person, And like here we were Game three,
Speaker 2: all the chips are down, and he benched Jackson and
Speaker 2: he played a bunch of three guard lineups. So that's
Speaker 2: a pretty strong indicative where he's at there. And then lastly,
Speaker 2: like I thought, I thought, and you know, you and
Speaker 2: I were talking about this a little bit in the
Speaker 2: before we started recording today, but like, yeah, it was
Speaker 2: it was bullshit that when Ad made a comment that
Speaker 2: was clearly in a moment of frustration that was clearly
Speaker 2: not aimed at anybody in particular. I thought it was
Speaker 2: just like a I thought that the comment about us
Speaker 2: not knowing what we're doing on either end of the floor,
Speaker 2: I thought it was more directed at like some of
Speaker 2: the role players and like just them going off script
Speaker 2: and not sticking to the game plan and not doing
Speaker 2: their jobs. And yeah, I'm sure there was some criticism
Speaker 2: Levy towards Darvin there. I thought it was just kind
Speaker 2: of like a general frustration with not being a serious
Speaker 2: basketball team, because, like Lebron said after the game last night,
Speaker 2: Lebron and Ad know they've won together. They know what
Speaker 2: it's like to be a serious team and to make
Speaker 2: a deep run, and so they are frustrated because they
Speaker 2: know this team doesn't have it. And then for Darvin
Speaker 2: to him out in the what was it the shoot
Speaker 2: around yesterday and then to basically be like, yeah, we're
Speaker 2: going to agree to disagree on that, and we take
Speaker 2: great pride and like basically cover his ass rather than
Speaker 2: just simply saying like like, yeah, eighti's pissed off. I'm
Speaker 2: pissed off too, which would have been a perfectly normal
Speaker 2: response there. And so I don't blame Darvin for the
Speaker 2: Lakers losing to the Nuggets. That said, I don't think
Speaker 2: he's a championship level coach, and so I do think
Speaker 2: the Lakers are going to have to address that in
Speaker 2: this offseason. They're going to have to make a move
Speaker 2: in that specific area. Where do you think the organization
Speaker 2: is right now in terms of the coaching situation. Is
Speaker 2: there some internal frustration?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they are frustrated and disappointed with how this series
Speaker 3: has gone and with how this season has gone. I
Speaker 3: think there has been an acknowledgment that Denver is just
Speaker 3: a better team and this is a bad matchup for
Speaker 3: the Lakers. But to your point that they shouldn't have
Speaker 3: even been in this position in the first place, and
Speaker 3: the fact that they finished as a seventh seed and
Speaker 3: had to play Denver in the first round was a
Speaker 3: reflection of mistakes earlier in the season. And I go
Speaker 3: back to early January when the Lakers lost four consecutive
Speaker 3: games and I had the report with Shan Shrania the
Speaker 3: athletic and I came on this show and we talked
Speaker 3: about it of the disconnect within the locker room between
Speaker 3: the players and the coaching staff and the frustration with
Speaker 3: lineups and rotations and just the identity of the team
Speaker 3: not necessarily aligning with the player's strengths. And those are
Speaker 3: all things you just hit on, and those are all
Speaker 3: things that never went away, like they got better for periods.
Speaker 3: I think winning can paper over some frustrations and some
Speaker 3: disagreements internally, and that's why you'll see like Kobe and
Speaker 3: shak can not get along, but they are so talented
Speaker 3: and Phil Jackson is such a great coach, and like
Speaker 3: they had the right role players where you can still
Speaker 3: win championships despite not being on the same page and
Speaker 3: having internal discord. But that only covers you for so
Speaker 3: long when you run into a team that is better
Speaker 3: than you and is embarrassing you. And really, like the
Speaker 3: Lakers have been embarrassed in this matchup with Denver, I think,
Speaker 3: like it's not just losing eleven straight games, but it's
Speaker 3: losing them the manner in which they lose them. It's
Speaker 3: completely falling apart in second halfs. And I don't think
Speaker 3: that's on Darvin, and I don't think people are putting
Speaker 3: that entirely on Darvin. But I have heard conversations with
Speaker 3: people once again referencing the three guard lineups or Torrian
Speaker 3: prints at the four and just them not lean like
Speaker 3: there had been a shift in early February where they
Speaker 3: went back there. You know, they started Rui, they started
Speaker 3: leaning into the bigger lineups because all year the lineup
Speaker 3: data has said if you go big with the front court,
Speaker 3: the Lakers win those minutes go.
Speaker 1: It was undeniable.
Speaker 3: It's undeniable, like it's it's it's and it's facts over feelings, right,
Speaker 3: Like that's that's been the motto of the last couple
Speaker 3: of years. It's facts over feelings. And the facts have
Speaker 3: been there, and the facts have been Lakers play bigger,
Speaker 3: they are better. Lakers play smaller, they are worse. Yet,
Speaker 3: as you've said in big moments this season, even going
Speaker 3: back to parts of the Pelicans games in the regular
Speaker 3: season finale and the playing matchup, they've gone small. And
Speaker 3: it's just like there's there's clearly been a lack of
Speaker 3: trust for for Jackson, for I think for Ruy, Like
Speaker 3: I know Ruy did not have a good game last night,
Speaker 3: but Ruey should not have played twenty eight minutes. Like
Speaker 3: there's no, in my opinion, credible argument for playing Ruey
Speaker 3: twenty eight minutes in an elimination game or essentially elimination
Speaker 3: game when the two alternatives are playing Jackson who's worse
Speaker 3: and they just didn't even play him, or just going
Speaker 3: super small with more Tornian and more three guard lineups
Speaker 3: and like that, just it doesn't work against the Denver Nuggets.
Speaker 3: Like we all we already went through the head to
Speaker 3: head matchups of how they are small and less physical
Speaker 3: and less forceful at each position, and then playing smaller
Speaker 3: leans into that even more.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I would not put this loss
Speaker 3: on him per se, but I think this loss has
Speaker 3: revealed some of his stubbornness and some of his weaknesses
Speaker 3: as a coach. And from my understanding, whether it's if
Speaker 3: I think the series is likely over in four or
Speaker 3: five games, and I would probably lean toward four, Lakers
Speaker 3: are going to have some reevaluating to do in the
Speaker 3: next few days in terms of the direction of the franchise.
Speaker 3: You know, can Darvin lead them to the next level?
Speaker 3: And because again, as I just said in the del segment,
Speaker 3: like the Denver Nuggets aren't going anywhere if the Lakers
Speaker 3: want to win a championship, and who knows how much
Speaker 3: longer they have with Lebron. Could be a year, could
Speaker 3: be two years, could be three years, who knows, could
Speaker 3: be zero year.
Speaker 1: He could leave the summer.
Speaker 3: Like if they want to win a championship and are
Speaker 3: serious about that with Lebron and Ad, I think they
Speaker 3: have to look at the future of you know, de Lo,
Speaker 3: Darvin and really just some of the the peripheral pieces here.
Speaker 3: So from my understanding, they are going to be reevaluating
Speaker 3: things in the next few days, looking at where this
Speaker 3: season went wrong, where this series went wrong, and then
Speaker 3: having to make potentially some tough decisions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: The Torrian Prince piece, to me is the kind of
Speaker 2: like the Bell Weather for where this team could have gone.
Speaker 2: In terms of an identity, you mentioned the size was
Speaker 2: the primary source of success for this lineup all year long, right,
Speaker 2: toryan Prince at the four next to three guards versus
Speaker 2: Tory and Prince at the two, which was always a
Speaker 2: look they could have gone to. Like Dlo is not
Speaker 2: playing well, you could literally go ad Lebron, RUI who
Speaker 2: Ruey can play in the five out Torrian Prince who
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I think Torrian Prince all season has
Speaker 2: been more like the seventh or eighth best player on
Speaker 2: the team, but within the context of this series, he
Speaker 2: was the most confident and successful bench player.
Speaker 1: So like, get seriously, you make a read.
Speaker 2: You make a read within this context of these first
Speaker 2: two games going into game three, and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: Torrian's my one guy off the bench that's like really
Speaker 2: playing confidently and well when he comes into the game.
Speaker 2: So like, if dlo is not playing well, like I
Speaker 2: would have just slotted Torrian at the two. I would
Speaker 2: have gone with Austin and Torrion with Ruiy Lebron and ad.
Speaker 2: That lineup hasn't played a single minute in this series.
Speaker 2: So like that that that, by the way, has been
Speaker 2: your five best players within this series. Like Toryan's not
Speaker 2: one of your five best players, but within this series,
Speaker 2: that's your five best players. They never saw the floor.
Speaker 2: But it's because of a basketball philosophy that Darvin was
Speaker 2: trying to inflict on his roster rather than trying to
Speaker 2: cater a basketball philosophy to the strengths of his roster.
Speaker 2: And again, like it's not it's not about blaming him necessarily,
Speaker 2: It's more just about acknowledging the reality that like if
Speaker 2: you're going to continue to try to win with the
Speaker 2: Lebron and AD build. He's not up to the challenge
Speaker 2: and they're to have to address that in this offseason.
Speaker 2: So before we get into we're gonna do a little
Speaker 2: brief chat about the off season. Then we're gonna get
Speaker 2: out of here before we actually get into the offseason. Though,
Speaker 2: what is your sense behind the scenes as to where
Speaker 2: ownership in the front office is with the Lebron and
Speaker 2: AD core do they view this year? Because like, here's
Speaker 2: the thing. I thought last year, Lebron and AD got
Speaker 2: soundly outplayed by Jokichen Murray and that was the major difference. Right,
Speaker 2: this year, AD has gone toe to toe with Jokic
Speaker 2: and Lebron, like I think, because here Murray hasn't shot
Speaker 2: well and Lebron has had some bad stretches too. I
Speaker 2: think Lebron and Murray have been more or less the same.
Speaker 2: You know, Murray obviously hit the biggest shot of the
Speaker 2: series in Game two, but Lebron was incredible down the
Speaker 2: stretch of that game. So like, it certainly wasn't Lebron's
Speaker 2: fault that they lost that game, right, So, Like I
Speaker 2: viewed the Star matchup as relatively even in this series
Speaker 2: so far through three games, it's been the role players
Speaker 2: that have gotten you know, demolished. So where is the
Speaker 2: Laker front office and ownership group in your opinion in
Speaker 2: terms of their optimism around giving another shot to the
Speaker 2: Lebron and ad core.
Speaker 3: From my understanding that is the plan. They want to
Speaker 3: keep Lebron James and sign him either resign you know,
Speaker 3: he is the option to either opt out and resign
Speaker 3: or he can extend. So that is still their goal
Speaker 3: moving forward in terms of having Lebron for at least
Speaker 3: another two years, maybe three years, and going forward with
Speaker 3: this Lebron eighty corps. But from my understanding that it's
Speaker 3: been similar to the approach at the trade deadline in
Speaker 3: terms of you have three paths, you can run it
Speaker 3: back and keep largely the same group together, which I
Speaker 3: think would be a mistake based on how this series
Speaker 3: has gone and really how the season has gone overall.
Speaker 3: Two is you can do a like small to medium
Speaker 3: upgrade in terms of that's flippingd Lo with a pick
Speaker 3: or two picks for a first you know, a starting
Speaker 3: uh you know, lineup upgrade and maybe you bring in
Speaker 3: a you know, Cruso type not necessarily Cruso, but maybe Cruso,
Speaker 3: but like you do more of like a a marginal
Speaker 3: upgrade in terms of you add a new starter and
Speaker 3: maybe like a key bench guy and you sort of
Speaker 3: run it back, but you are making a couple of upgrades.
Speaker 3: And then path number three is let's go star hunting
Speaker 3: and let's go get a Trey Young. Well, let's see
Speaker 3: what happens with Donovan Mitchell and Cleveland. It looks like
Speaker 3: they're gonna make at least the conference semifinals, but there's
Speaker 3: been a lot of buzz about him not staying in Cleveland.
Speaker 3: And then what happens with Dallas and the Clippers, And
Speaker 3: does Dallas lose in the first round? And now you
Speaker 3: you know, we've talked about it before, but like, do
Speaker 3: they go in a different direction and pivot away from
Speaker 3: Kyrie and Luca as a pairing, And then there will
Speaker 3: likely be other stars that potentially come available, like and
Speaker 3: I think Michael Bridges is an interesting name of what direction.
Speaker 1: Is Brooklyn going in?
Speaker 3: And he's kind of in between path number two and
Speaker 3: path number three, But for the most part, like those
Speaker 3: are the three directions that from my understanding, the Lakers
Speaker 3: are weighing. It sounded more recently like they are in
Speaker 3: between path number one and path number two, and we're
Speaker 3: trying to lean away from the three star build, although
Speaker 3: there's been a lot of Trey Young buzz with them.
Speaker 3: But I don't see how you can do path number one.
Speaker 3: I don't see how you can run this back. If
Speaker 3: you run this back, you are once again a Denver
Speaker 3: matchup away from just losing whenever you face them. Like
Speaker 3: this team is that if Ruy, Dilo Austin, they can
Speaker 3: all come back better. And I still don't think they
Speaker 3: could beat Denver. And even if you add like a
Speaker 3: better bench player, I still don't think you can beat Denver.
Speaker 1: So I think it's between path number two and path
Speaker 1: number three.
Speaker 3: If I had to pick one, I would probably lean
Speaker 3: more toward the marginal upgrade, and that likely being d
Speaker 3: Lo and Ruie potentially moving. Those are the most movable
Speaker 3: contracts that they have. I think they're gonna try and
Speaker 3: keep Austin, but again it's they're in a tough spot
Speaker 3: because on top like Delo's got a player option, Cam Reddish,
Speaker 3: Christian Wood and Jackson Hayes all have player options. I
Speaker 3: think you can argue that they're still all minimum players.
Speaker 3: Like maybe Jackson has outplayed it to like a mini
Speaker 3: mid level, you know, four to five million dollar player,
Speaker 3: but I'm not even sold on that. He just was
Speaker 3: a DMPCD in a playoff game. Christian Wood and Cam
Speaker 3: Reddish I think are both clearly minimum guys. So like,
Speaker 3: those guys are probably opting in Max Christie's restricted free agents.
Speaker 1: So like the Lakers already have a.
Speaker 3: Bunch of money committed to the core of this group
Speaker 3: lebron Ady, Austin, Ruy, Van doh Gabe Vincent. Then you
Speaker 3: add in some of these guys that can opt in,
Speaker 3: and like they're kind of limited in terms of what
Speaker 3: they could do in free agency, and then when it
Speaker 3: comes to trading, it's gonna have to bed Lo, Rui,
Speaker 3: maybe Austin, depending on you know, who's involved.
Speaker 1: But they're kind of limited in terms of like what
Speaker 1: they can actually do.
Speaker 3: So while I think they'd love to do path number
Speaker 3: two a path number three, it ultimately might come down
Speaker 3: to like how the trade market plays out, how free
Speaker 3: agency plays out, and some factors that are ultimately out
Speaker 3: of their control.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it comes down to it's got to
Speaker 2: be a two way offensive player rather than just an
Speaker 2: offensive player. So, like, I think they definitely need a
Speaker 2: high level offensive player because Lebron and Ady during the
Speaker 2: regular season just don't have the ability to put the
Speaker 2: foot down to the pedal and impact the game athletically
Speaker 2: for eighty two the way that they used to offensively.
Speaker 2: I obviously am such a huge believer in those two
Speaker 2: in the context of the playoffs, but you know, within
Speaker 2: the regular season eighty two they need to get a
Speaker 2: high level offensive player. But to me, the perfect kind
Speaker 2: of like line of delineation in terms of this archetype
Speaker 2: is like the Trey Young versus Jontey Murray type of thing.
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that those two players are the
Speaker 2: only options, as you just laid out so many good options,
Speaker 2: but like, Trey Young is a player that has a
Speaker 2: significantly higher offensive ceiling than de Jontay Murray. But de
Speaker 2: Jontay Murray, like no doubt, within the context of a
Speaker 2: Lebron and ad pairing, is going to be a more
Speaker 2: impactful playoff player and a more useful playoff player with
Speaker 2: a higher floor, right, And so that's kind of what
Speaker 2: I look at, Like That's why I like the idea
Speaker 2: of a McHale Bridges that isn't that is a an
Speaker 2: athlete that can really impact the game with a high floor,
Speaker 2: but that also has the ability to run action and
Speaker 2: be a useful a guy that could run two man
Speaker 2: game with Lebron and you know that that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different upside to that that type
Speaker 2: of pairing, right, So, like, I think that's going to
Speaker 2: be the key for them is I think they need
Speaker 2: to target a legitimate two way player to put in
Speaker 2: that in that two or three spot, which is something
Speaker 2: we've been talking about all day here really, But like
Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in Austin. I think a big
Speaker 2: part of what led to Austin's poor offensive series was
Speaker 2: the fact that last year in the postseason, it was
Speaker 2: Dennis Schroeder that was taking most of the high leverage
Speaker 2: defensive assignments, and Austin was able to focus his energy
Speaker 2: and his best skill, which is, you know, being an
Speaker 2: offensive skill guard, right and this year that's not the case.
Speaker 2: And to his credit, I think he actually was a
Speaker 2: really useful perimeter defender for the Lakers of the last
Speaker 2: couple of years, and I think that will serve him
Speaker 2: well in lower leverage assignments throughout the rest of his career.
Speaker 2: But you got to find a way to free him
Speaker 2: up to focus on the offensive end. And the only
Speaker 2: way you're going to do that is if you bring
Speaker 2: in a real high leverage athlete at the two and
Speaker 2: the three. I like Ruiy at the three in the
Speaker 2: sense that like it does bring a big physical imposition
Speaker 2: to the game. But there's something to be said about
Speaker 2: having two forwards like Lebron and Rui that aren't necessarily
Speaker 2: great screen navigators or that can move their feet on
Speaker 2: the perimeter, and so that to me is going to
Speaker 2: be like the area of opportunity, essentially turning d Lo
Speaker 2: and Ruie into more compatible players at that position. Dejontey
Speaker 2: Murray is a player that I'd really like for them
Speaker 2: to take another look at. I know that the hot
Speaker 2: are going to be considering blowing up things this summer.
Speaker 2: I just think he could be relatively affordable compared to
Speaker 2: some of the other options out there. Obviously, Donovan Mitchell
Speaker 2: would be a home run. If you get Donovan Mitchell,
Speaker 2: you're you're celebrating for for a long time after that.
Speaker 2: But I just think that there's gonna be a big
Speaker 2: market for him. Yeah, and like the the idea of
Speaker 2: maybe three first round picks and filler, I don't think
Speaker 2: necessarily is gonna be able to compete with some of
Speaker 2: the other offers that are out there, especially especially when
Speaker 2: there's so many teams that feel like they're close. Right,
Speaker 2: But we'll see. Like you said, there's so many things
Speaker 2: that can happen over the next month, Like the Suns
Speaker 2: could have a catastrophe, the MAVs could have a catastrophe,
Speaker 2: the Bucks could have a catastrophe. Like, there's so many
Speaker 2: different negative things that could happen over the next month,
Speaker 2: and that's gonna color what ends up being the uh,
Speaker 2: what ends up being the strategy. Our last note before
Speaker 2: we get out of here. Do you think there's any
Speaker 2: any chance that that Lebron James looks another direction this offseason?
Speaker 3: There's a there's always a chance, so I would say
Speaker 3: there's a small chance. But everything I've heard has been
Speaker 3: that Lebron wants to remain a Laker, and that the
Speaker 3: Lakers want him to remain a Laker, and that's why
Speaker 3: they're willing to pay and commit, you know, two to
Speaker 3: three year deal or two to three year extension for
Speaker 3: fifty plus million dollars annually to keep Lebron despite not
Speaker 3: knowing this, Like we're in uncharted territory with Lebron, right,
Speaker 3: Like it's gonna be year twenty two, year twenty three,
Speaker 3: year twenty four, depending on how long he resigns, and
Speaker 3: like we've seen even Hall of Fame top ten, top
Speaker 3: twenty level guys, at some point later in your career,
Speaker 3: there's the off season that you just fall off randomly,
Speaker 3: and I think, based on Lebron's track record, that's not
Speaker 3: going to happen, and he's likely going to go out
Speaker 3: on a high note, and whenever he decides to retire,
Speaker 3: it'll just be he's still a really good basketball player
Speaker 3: and maybe not quite top five or top ten or
Speaker 3: or whatever, but he'll still be a high, high level,
Speaker 3: star level basketball player. But within that, like the Lakers
Speaker 3: are willing to commit to that. So I think the
Speaker 3: thing with Lebron is going to be and we've touched
Speaker 3: on this before, but if he's had his way, I
Speaker 3: think this team would have a third star, whether it
Speaker 3: was last season or this season. He was a big
Speaker 3: proponent for Kyrie Irving. I was told he was a
Speaker 3: proponent for the Jontey Murray and Zach Lavine earlier in
Speaker 3: the season. So he's clearly on some level wanted a
Speaker 3: third star and that third player who could help alleviate
Speaker 3: some of the offensive burden, you know, a player that
Speaker 3: similar to what you were just talking about. So I wonder,
Speaker 3: like now that he has some of the power back
Speaker 3: in terms of he has a say on his future
Speaker 3: and the direction of the Lakers, Like, how much does
Speaker 3: he yield that right? And if we see the team
Speaker 3: make a change at the coaching position and then go
Speaker 3: get a third star, I think it's kind of showing that,
Speaker 3: like Lebron, like the power is sort of back and
Speaker 3: he is in influential force in terms of the direction
Speaker 3: of the team, and it's sort of like what we've
Speaker 3: done the last couple of years has not worked. And
Speaker 3: you know, yes, we made the conference finals and you
Speaker 3: know that was a nice run, and we had a
Speaker 3: nice turnaround this year, but like we have not been
Speaker 3: at a championship level. And with Lebron historically, when he
Speaker 3: doesn't feel like his team is at a championship level,
Speaker 3: he wants wholesale changes, and more often than not, it
Speaker 3: has worked. Right, He's won a championship everywhere he's been,
Speaker 3: but I think for the Lakers, it's again kind of
Speaker 3: you know how. I'm just interested to see how much
Speaker 3: they actually allow him to yield that this offseason. If
Speaker 3: it is a power struggle at all, maybe it won't be.
Speaker 3: Maybe it's as simple as if you're willing to resign
Speaker 3: or extend, we will.
Speaker 1: Do X, y Z to keep you happy.
Speaker 3: And we know the Lakers are a franchise that prides
Speaker 3: itself on keeping their stars happy and being partners with
Speaker 3: their stars. But I don't think that has necessarily been
Speaker 3: the case in terms of like personnel moves as much
Speaker 3: the last couple of years. And I think if you
Speaker 3: start to see the team go in a different direction,
Speaker 3: maybe a more drastic direction, that to me is a
Speaker 3: sign that he is more so getting what he's wanted
Speaker 3: compared to the last couple of years. So I think
Speaker 3: he now has some leverage over the Lakers that he
Speaker 3: did not have at the trade deadline, he did not
Speaker 3: have last year, and I'm interested to see just how
Speaker 3: all that shakes out, because it's, you know, it has
Speaker 3: been too like I don't think they've always seen eyed eye.
Speaker 3: I'll just say over the last couple of years, and
Speaker 3: now that he has some of the power back, I
Speaker 3: want to see how that all plays out.
Speaker 2: Yees selfishly, as a Lebron fan, I want him to leave,
Speaker 2: mainly just because I feel like the Lakers have let
Speaker 2: him down in a big way. I understand that he
Speaker 2: pushed for the Russell Westbrook trade, but it didn't take
Speaker 2: a basketball savant to realize that was a bad idea
Speaker 2: in the moment, you know, like I I can't think
Speaker 2: of a trade that was more universally panned at the
Speaker 2: moment and then immediately ended up being a disaster, Like
Speaker 2: like from Game one of that season.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh no, You're like, I think there's still
Speaker 3: I think they're still paying for it right now, Like
Speaker 3: I think this all of this has been compounding mistakes
Speaker 3: since the Russell Westbrook trade.
Speaker 2: We talked about a small mistake that could have been
Speaker 2: undone that could have saved some of this heartache in
Speaker 2: the in the Alex Crusoe situation. But there's no doubt
Speaker 2: if you're pointing to one singular incident that was the
Speaker 2: downfall of the Los Angeles Lakers, it was the Russell
Speaker 2: Westbrook trade. Now Russell Westbrook I mean, Russell Westbrook was
Speaker 2: always Russell Westbrook and that evidence was there, and so
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily blame him for coming into the Lakers
Speaker 2: and being Russell Westbrook and it being a bad idea, right,
Speaker 2: Like that was on the like there's just no universe
Speaker 2: where any serious front office would have watched film of
Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook and been like, this is a good idea,
Speaker 2: let's do this, like they're just there's just no universe
Speaker 2: where that would have that would have been the case.
Speaker 2: So like when you get when you're giving up a
Speaker 2: draft asset, you're like, if I remember correctly, the Buddy
Speaker 2: Healed trade was I want to say, Kuzma Haral and
Speaker 2: a pick.
Speaker 1: So they would have kept case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they would have kept KCP, like it would have
Speaker 2: been a significant a substantially better and Kuzma, by the way,
Speaker 2: kind of like RUI was a redundancy with Lebron and
Speaker 2: so there was some concern as to whether or not
Speaker 2: that was really a good fit to begin with. But
Speaker 2: like pivoting to Russ which forced them to include KCP,
Speaker 2: that was really the downfall of everything. And you know,
Speaker 2: between that between letting Crusoe go, between signing Taylor Orton Tucker, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, I had no real problem with signing
Speaker 2: Taylor Horton Tucker. It was signing Taylor Horton Tucker without
Speaker 2: retaining Alex Cruso that I thought was a disaster. Between
Speaker 2: all the mistakes that Magic Johnson made in the early
Speaker 2: phase of his UH President of Basketball Operations kind of
Speaker 2: stint there, like the this was a team that should
Speaker 2: have been a conference finalist year and year out for
Speaker 2: a four year period, and instead they got one additional
Speaker 2: conference finals trip off the tale of an incredible defensive
Speaker 2: run from Anthony Davis, right, and so it just kind
Speaker 2: of felt like a waste. So part of me wishes
Speaker 2: Lebron would leave, just because I want to see him
Speaker 2: play in a competent environment and give it a real shot.
Speaker 2: But I agree with you in the sense that, like,
Speaker 2: I just have a hard time believing you will as
Speaker 2: far as the building thing goes. It's so funny because
Speaker 2: over the last couple of years, like in the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three off seasons,
Speaker 2: it was like, don't go star hunting, just get a
Speaker 2: quality role player. Just go get some athletes that can
Speaker 2: help Lebron in ab But like, now that we're tilting
Speaker 2: into the later portion of Lebron's career. Now we've been
Speaker 2: in a later portion, but now that we're into the
Speaker 2: preposterously late portion of Lebron's career year twenty two, like
Speaker 2: you almost have to go star hunting because, like simply put,
Speaker 2: like part of the issue is, I think Lebron could
Speaker 2: have a really useful year twenty two, year twenty three
Speaker 2: if he can pick his spots. But he could not
Speaker 2: pick his spots on this team. They desperately needed him
Speaker 2: to be great, and to his credit, he was host deadline.
Speaker 1: He was the only.
Speaker 2: Player in the NBA to average at least twenty seven
Speaker 2: on fifty percent from the field in forty percent from three.
Speaker 2: He was one of only three players in the league
Speaker 2: this year to average at least twenty five to seven
Speaker 2: and seven. I legitimately think like he was bad in
Speaker 2: Game three. He was bad in Game three, There's no
Speaker 2: way around it. He dropped the ball on the defensive
Speaker 2: and he let his team down. But outside of that game,
Speaker 2: pretty much for the last two or three months, he's
Speaker 2: been playing at a top five level. Like and like
Speaker 2: legitimately it's ridiculous that they needed him to be that.
Speaker 2: If they could have managed this in a way that
Speaker 2: lessened his workload and kept him in a position where
Speaker 2: he could pick his spots. There's a version of this
Speaker 2: where you where this could be sustained success. And so
Speaker 2: obviously there's always going to be a part of me
Speaker 2: that that kind of like wonders what would have happened
Speaker 2: if he, if you was in a more competent situation.
Speaker 2: But if he stays, I think at this point you
Speaker 2: have to start looking for higher firepower guys that can
Speaker 2: lessen his workload. All right, we've gone for like an
Speaker 2: hour already, so we're gonna get out of here, Yova,
Speaker 2: why don't you tell us what you guys are working
Speaker 2: on over at the Athletic right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I will be monitoring this whole situation in terms
Speaker 3: of the sweep and the fallout or the potential sweep
Speaker 3: Freudian slip there, the potential sleep, the potential sweep, and
Speaker 3: all the fallout from it, all the off season stuff.
Speaker 3: We'll have a big piece at the Athletic coming out
Speaker 3: whenever the season ends, so be on the lookout for
Speaker 3: that and also be sure to check out my YouTube channel.
Speaker 3: I just search yo Van Buha j Ova n b
Speaker 3: u Ha. I have my podcast there, Bouja's Block. I'm
Speaker 3: doing postgame reactions after every game, and then I will
Speaker 3: also be reacting to whatever happens with this offseason, going
Speaker 3: directly to YouTube and doing reaction videos there. So be
Speaker 3: sure to check that out and subscribe if you have
Speaker 3: not done so yet.
Speaker 2: All right, guys, that is all we have for today.
Speaker 2: As always, be sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting the show.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have Yovan on a bunch of times over
Speaker 2: the course of the stretch, right after the postseason, when
Speaker 2: we get into the draft and free agency and everything
Speaker 2: like that. We are taking tonight off. I'm dealing with
Speaker 2: a personal family matter. Tomorrow morning we'll have a breakdown
Speaker 2: of tonight's games, and then Saturday night we'll be going
Speaker 2: live after the final buzzer of Lakers Nuggets.
Speaker 1: I'll see you guys. Then the volume