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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: An absolutely precious little nine year old girl goes missing,

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Speaker 2: literally yards away from her home from the laundromat. A

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Speaker 2: frantic search ensues. Volunteers find Debbie's body. She has been horribly,

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Speaker 2: horribly sex assaulted. She's dead years past. The case goes

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Speaker 2: cold in the last days. An amazing twist in the

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Speaker 2: case of a beautiful little girl, Debbie Lynn Randall. I'm

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Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious xem one eleven.

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Speaker 2: First of all, take a listen to the elected District

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Speaker 2: Attorney in Cobb County, Flynn D. Brodie, Junior.

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Speaker 3: Today we are here to provide an answer and perhaps

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Speaker 3: some sembilance of closure to the family of Debbie Lynn Randall,

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Speaker 3: whose young life and bright smile ended fifty one years ago,

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Speaker 3: gone too soon at the age of nine years old.

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Speaker 3: On January thirteenth, nineteen seventy two, Debbie Lynn Randall, a

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Speaker 3: third grade student at Pine Forest Elementary School, was walking

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Speaker 3: home from the laundromat when she was abducted, raped, and killed.

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Speaker 3: The laundrymat was only a half block away from her home.

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Speaker 3: She was found sixteen days long after an extensive search

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Speaker 3: from the community which over four thousand members participated, she

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Speaker 3: was assaulted and strangled to death.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she was assaulted. Yes, this little girl was strangled

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Speaker 2: to death with me an all star panel, including the

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Speaker 2: elected district Attorney Da Brody Jr. And the detective who

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Speaker 2: stuck by this case and never gave up A man

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Speaker 2: I consider now to be a friend Morris Nix. I

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Speaker 2: remember when he first approached me about this case and

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Speaker 2: beg begged to bring awareness to Debbie's case. He stuck

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Speaker 2: with it from the get go, and he is here

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Speaker 2: with us today. First, I want to go to Joseph

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, renowned professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star

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Speaker 2: of Body Bags. With Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, it's

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Speaker 2: always thank you for being with us to state that

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Speaker 2: this little girl nine years old. Now, Joe Scott, you

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Speaker 2: remember when your baby was in the third grade? You remember,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure do. What happened to Debbie Lynne Randalled.

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Speaker 4: Her assault is something that nightmares are made of. She

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Speaker 4: was all by herself and was snatched. I think that

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Speaker 4: it was, at least in these circumstances, it appears to

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Speaker 4: be a crime of opportunity, and she was taken away

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Speaker 4: and taken to an area where she could be assaulted

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Speaker 4: in private, essentially, and she wound up dying.

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Speaker 2: You know when you say assaulted, When you say assaulted,

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Speaker 2: that is a legal term for rape, a sodomy that

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Speaker 2: means vaginal or anal, forced penetration, forced intercourse, or oral

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Speaker 2: vaginal anal oral. Those are sex assaults. Please, Joe Scott,

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Speaker 2: I understand you're coming from a place of professionalism, but

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Speaker 2: we're not in court. I want the truth and I

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Speaker 2: don't care how bad it is. What happened to Debbie Randall,

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Speaker 2: nine years old, third grade. What happened to her?

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Speaker 4: She was beaten and strangled to death, Nancy, and it

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Speaker 4: on top of being sexually assaulted and left out in

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Speaker 4: essentially an isolated area. Now, this is a young girl

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Speaker 4: that had been part of a family and she was

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Speaker 4: out there alone. And I think probably one of the

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Speaker 4: most poignant comments about this along the way that I

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Speaker 4: have seen is that the last vision that she had

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Speaker 4: was probably staring into the eyes of her killer, who

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Speaker 4: had been assaulting her all along and had just completely

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Speaker 4: and totally brutalized with me.

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Speaker 2: In addition to the elected District Attorney Flynn D. Brody

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Speaker 2: Junior in Cobb County, Morris Nix is with us former

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Speaker 2: detective with the Cobb County Cold Case Unit, Morris, Yes,

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Speaker 2: could you explain the facts surrounding Debbie's disappearance and murder

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Speaker 2: as well as this nine year old little girl's rate?

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Speaker 5: Nancy, First of all, I want to listen her to

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Speaker 5: understand to what he just raped, who had ripped openness.

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Speaker 5: This was a vicious, sadist attack. This man was not

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Speaker 5: just a pedophile, he was a sadist. And if you

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Speaker 5: ever saw the photograph, they would haunt you forever. Why

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Speaker 5: because it was so brutal and I you know, you

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Speaker 5: just hard to wrap your head around what she may

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Speaker 5: have seen and felt before she died.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the rag that was found of the scene.

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Speaker 6: I do.

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Speaker 2: Where was the rag?

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Speaker 5: The rag was placed in her vaginal area. And the

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Speaker 5: reason we believed that happened was she was abducted at

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Speaker 5: a lagomat. She was taken to another location and assaulted.

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Speaker 5: The Emmy's office said that had he not strangled her,

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Speaker 5: she would have bled to death. That's how bad it was.

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Speaker 2: Vaginal bleeding correct, from the rape.

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Speaker 5: Correct, and from ripping her opening. I think some kind

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Speaker 5: of foreign object was used.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I know that it is so hard to hear,

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Speaker 2: but this is what happened to this nine year old

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Speaker 2: little girl. I want to go to Flynn D. Brody, Junior,

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Speaker 2: the elected DA in Cobb County. You know if I

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Speaker 2: may call you Flynn, Yeah, we are used to. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's no telling how many cases you have tried and

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Speaker 2: investigated before you became the District Attorney in Cobb. We

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Speaker 2: are used to, Flynn. I remember the first time I

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Speaker 2: had to say a curse word in front of a

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Speaker 2: jury in Fulton County. The words I had never said before.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean damn or hell or the F word.

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Speaker 2: I mean a lot worse than that. And I had

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Speaker 2: to actually say it out loud in my car on

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Speaker 2: the way to work that morning so I could say

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Speaker 2: it with a straight face. This two regular people, not

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Speaker 2: people like us who are in this business, who seek

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Speaker 2: justice every day. No matter how awful the facts are,

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Speaker 2: it's very, very difficult to enunciate, to tell people what

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Speaker 2: happened to Debbie Randall and I just want to thank

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Speaker 2: you the elected district Attorney Marris Nicks, and the incredible

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Speaker 2: scientists who have finally brought a resolution. Do you know

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Speaker 2: how many nights I've gone to sleep and thought about

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Speaker 2: Debbie Randall and thought about Mars Nicks still working the case.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Flynn, could you explain what it takes to

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Speaker 2: do a job like yours and stand in front of

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Speaker 2: a jury on a case this horrific or never get

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Speaker 2: answers on a case this horrific?

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Speaker 7: Nancy, I think you said it. You know, many times

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Speaker 7: we see the facts, we see the pictures, and we

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Speaker 7: get so attached to our victims, we get attached to

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Speaker 7: wanting to find justice for him, to bring people to

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Speaker 7: be accountable for the things of their actions that they've taken.

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Speaker 7: You know, I applaud Detective Nicks for the work that

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Speaker 7: he's done on this case. I said earlier that the

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Speaker 7: emotion that he showed at the press conference showed that

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Speaker 7: he was vested in this case, just as all prosecutors are.

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Speaker 7: You know, as a prosecutor, you don't do this for

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Speaker 7: the money. You don't do this for fame or any

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Speaker 7: accolade or anything. You do it for the victims. You

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Speaker 7: do it for the individuals who have no voice. You

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Speaker 7: have to speak for them so you can bring justice

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Speaker 7: for them, for those families, and in this case, fifty

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Speaker 7: one years for the Randall family. Fifty one years it

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Speaker 7: took for us to solve this case. But in the

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Speaker 7: end it was solved, some closure was brought, and mister Randall,

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Speaker 7: Melvin was so forgiving of mister of the Rose family.

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Speaker 7: I just really my heart goes out to him for

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Speaker 7: all the things that this family must have gone through,

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Speaker 7: and for many of us. You know, we have children

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Speaker 7: of our own, and every time we see a victim,

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Speaker 7: we see our own kid.

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Speaker 2: Can I tell you what happened just this past week, Flynn. Guys,

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Speaker 2: you're hearing not only Joe Scott Morgan, but Morris Nicks,

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Speaker 2: the former detective who stayed on this case until the

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Speaker 2: bitter end, and Flynn Brody, I'm shortly gonna be joined

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Speaker 2: by Debbie's brother, Melvin Randall. Flynn Morris just this past week,

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Speaker 2: and my son, who is fifteen is now six ' five.

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Speaker 2: All right, I was watching my daughter, she's a football

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Speaker 2: manager for the JB JV football team, and I was

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Speaker 2: just watching her. It was pouring rain. It was starting

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Speaker 2: to get dark. We were at an away game and

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Speaker 2: I was sitting there and seeing that the game finally ended,

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Speaker 2: and I let my son run off with his little friend. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't find him, Flynn. I called him and called him,

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Speaker 2: and he's usually got his phone glued to his ear.

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Speaker 2: No answer, no answer, no answer. I finally did lie

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Speaker 2: three sixty Flynn. His phone was in a field behind.

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Speaker 2: I think it was a quality end out on a strip.

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Speaker 2: I all I could think about where cases, just like

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Speaker 2: Debbie Randall, where at first appearance, they're like, oh they'll

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Speaker 2: be back, they've wandered off. They're here, they're there, there,

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Speaker 2: they're with their friends. And the more I called, and

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Speaker 2: the more I called and couldn't get him, I could

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Speaker 2: just feel it rising up in my chest. Well, the

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Speaker 2: end of the story, guess where he was, Flynn. Guess

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Speaker 2: what was behind that quality end the soccer field. The

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Speaker 2: soccer field was in a different place in the school,

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Speaker 2: and they had walked I guess a quarter or a

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Speaker 2: third of a mile to get to the soccer field

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Speaker 2: in the rain to go kick a ball. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what these adherents have lived through is hell, pure hell, guys,

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Speaker 2: take a listen to our cuts. Twenty six and twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: The field of forensic technology continued to improve, and in

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Speaker 3: May of twenty fifteen, a piece of cloth recovered from

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Speaker 3: the victim was sent to Syringing Forensics for an updated

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Speaker 3: DNA analysis. It resulted in a partial profile attributed to

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Speaker 3: an unknown male. Using public records and police resources, the

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Speaker 3: sentence of the suspect were identified. The family assisted in

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Speaker 3: the investigation and sample DNA was provided for comparison DNA

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Speaker 3: evidence left on the victim and the familiar DNA was

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Speaker 3: a match. We exhumed the suspect's body for DNA testing

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Speaker 3: to rule out any doubts.

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Speaker 1: Time story with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now a special guest, Melvin Randall. This

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Speaker 2: is Debbie's brother, mister Randall. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: being with us. You when you look back when all

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Speaker 2: the years that you have lived without Debbie, what memory

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Speaker 2: is the most vivid.

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Speaker 6: The pain of just you know, not knowing what's going on,

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Speaker 6: to seeing my mother wanting to find out what happened,

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Speaker 6: you know, having to deal with that was tough for

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Speaker 6: a long time. It's just just not knowing what happened.

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Speaker 2: When you say the toughest part for you was watching

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Speaker 2: your mother wanting, waiting, yearning, praying for justice. What do

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Speaker 2: you mean, what did you see your mother do?

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Speaker 6: Well, she just suffered a lot, she had leukemia, but

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Speaker 6: her wish was, you know, that they would find before

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Speaker 6: she passed away, that they'd find out. And it were

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Speaker 6: just tough to see how much it did hurt her,

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Speaker 6: how much she really wanted it. And I'm just glad

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Speaker 6: that they finally did, But I still wish my mother

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Speaker 6: would have been around to to see it.

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Speaker 2: Melvin, how old were you when Debbie was murdered?

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Speaker 6: I was ten years old.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember when it happened? Can you still remember it?

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Speaker 6: Yes, ma'am, very vividly.

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Speaker 2: What do you recall?

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Speaker 6: I was ten, I was sick. They wouldn't let me

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Speaker 6: go outside. I remember standing at the door looking outside,

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Speaker 6: and uh, you know, I blame myself for a long time.

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Speaker 2: But you blamed yourself? Why?

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Speaker 6: Well, because I was her older brother. We always played

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Speaker 6: together and always was around each other. And then that

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Speaker 6: one day I was sick and I wasn't allowed to

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Speaker 6: go outside. So I blame myself for a while, but

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Speaker 6: then I realized it was nothing I could do.

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Speaker 2: You know, just hearing what you're saying. Uh, Doctor Angela

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Speaker 2: Arnold is with me, a truly renowned psychiatrist that I

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Speaker 2: consider a friend. Doctor Angie. I know that brother Melvin says,

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Speaker 2: I blame myself, But then I realized there was nothing

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Speaker 2: else I could do. Even when I look back now

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Speaker 2: on my fiance's murder, I think, well, if what if

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Speaker 2: I had said, don't go to work today, just stay

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Speaker 2: one more day with me and make it just stay

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Speaker 2: here at my parents' house. What if I did this?

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Speaker 2: What if I did that? I mean, it never goes away,

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Speaker 2: doctor Angie.

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Speaker 8: No, And you know, Nancy, the last thing anybody ever

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Speaker 8: wants to do is blame the victim, okay, And so

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Speaker 8: the only other thing we can do is blame ourselves,

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Speaker 8: because it's such a feeling of a lack of control

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Speaker 8: that if we think that we could have done something

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Speaker 8: to prevent this pain us act to the victim, that's

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Speaker 8: our attempt at finding some sort of control in this

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Speaker 8: of which there's absolutely no control. Because this was just

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Speaker 8: a horrible act that happened to this little girl when

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Speaker 8: she was out alone. She could have been walking out

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Speaker 8: alone any number of times, and nothing could have happened

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Speaker 8: to her right on this particular day. This is what happened,

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Speaker 8: and none of us have any control over that, and

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Speaker 8: it's none of our fault.

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Speaker 2: You're so right, Doctor Angie, joining me now, Jessica Nole,

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Speaker 2: investigative journalist, co host producer of The Investigators podcast. Jessica,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. And I don't want

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Speaker 2: any victim blaming her mom, Debbie Lynn's mom. Both parents

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Speaker 2: died before they ever knew who took little Debbie, but

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Speaker 2: I don't want them blame. I mean, she was basically

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Speaker 2: across the street right when she was inducted from the laundromat.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, she was across the street at the laundrymat. She

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Speaker 9: had been with her stepfather and they put the load

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Speaker 9: in and he gave her some change to finish up

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Speaker 9: the laundry. He headed across the street, literally yards across

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Speaker 9: the street, back to their apartment, and she stuck around

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Speaker 9: for a little bit with the soapboxes, played with her dolls,

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Speaker 9: and then you know, just a few minutes later, she

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Speaker 9: walked out the door and that was you know, she

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Speaker 9: was taken.

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Speaker 2: Melvin Randall, I think I heard you jumping in What

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Speaker 2: were you saying?

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Speaker 6: I was just saying that it was not very far

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Speaker 6: at all. We could see the laundry let from the door.

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Speaker 2: And Marris nicked with me, the detective who stayed on

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Speaker 2: the case from the beginning till now. Marris didn't she didn't.

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Speaker 2: Debbie like to go collect all the soap that was

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Speaker 2: left behind that people had bought but then they didn't

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Speaker 2: need it, and she would gather all together and her

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Speaker 2: family would use the leftover soap.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that was what Debbie liked to do, and I think,

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Speaker 5: looking back on it, I think that was her way

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Speaker 5: of helping her family, and it gave her time to

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Speaker 5: kind of linger around a little bit longer.

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Speaker 2: And the friends had the dolls. I mean, I'm looking

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Speaker 2: at her right now. I'm looking particularly at the picture

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Speaker 2: of her. She still has her baby teeth and some

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Speaker 2: of her baby teeth. She looks like she's just gotten

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Speaker 2: her adult front two teeth, and her little nose covered

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Speaker 2: in freckles, and that gold, that yellow ribbon on her

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Speaker 2: hair looks like a school picture. She just looks like

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Speaker 2: the all American little girl nine years old just got Morgan.

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Speaker 2: When Morris Nick says she was cut open what does

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Speaker 2: he mean by that?

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Speaker 4: The belief is is that there was an instrument of

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Speaker 4: some type that was inserted within her. And you know,

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Speaker 4: we can go on and on about this, but it

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Speaker 4: seems to me that this is the act of somebody that,

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Speaker 4: when it comes down to it, is a sadist, somebody

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Speaker 4: that enjoyed inflicting pain on somebody that was obviously much

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Speaker 4: smaller and weaker than them.

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Speaker 2: And probably trapped in a vehicle. She was raped with

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Speaker 2: a foreign.

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Speaker 4: Object, trapped and then taken to an isolated area. The

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Speaker 4: thing about it is with cases like these, individuals that

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Speaker 4: have this predatory mindset have already got a they've got

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Speaker 4: a type of person that they're looking for, and then

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Speaker 4: they have a fantasy in their mind about where they're

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Speaker 4: going to go and where they're going to do it.

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Speaker 4: Because something like this would have required a certain amount

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Speaker 4: of isolation. Because this is Nancy, I can't even begin

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Speaker 4: to describe to you in any terms how painful this

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Speaker 4: would have been and how horrific it would have been

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Speaker 4: what this port li Lo Angel was subjected to at

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Speaker 4: that point in don.

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Speaker 2: Guys take a listen to our cut twenty eight. I

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Speaker 2: think you will recognize the voice.

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Speaker 3: Debuln's parents die without knowing who killed their little girl.

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Speaker 3: Her mother one Neda, died of leukemia in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 3: and her father John passed away in January of last year.

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Speaker 3: The answer we are providing today will not bring her back,

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Speaker 3: and we can't extract justice from the perpetrator. But I know, oh,

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Speaker 3: he must answer to a higher power, and I hope

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Speaker 3: it will provide some relief and answer the question that

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Speaker 3: is lingered for more than fifty years. We have confirmed

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Speaker 3: that William B. Rose of Mapleton was responsible for the

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Speaker 3: death of Debbie Lynn Randall.

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Speaker 2: William B. Rose of Mapleton, then twenty four years old,

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Speaker 2: responsible for the death of Debbie Lynn Randall to Morris Nicks,

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Speaker 2: who is this guy? Who is William B. Rose?

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Speaker 8: You know?

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Speaker 5: Now's the amazing thing about it. With the hundreds of

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Speaker 5: people literally that we looked at and the people we

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Speaker 5: tried to eliminate, he was never on our radar. There

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Speaker 5: was nothing that led us to him. There's no past behavior.

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Speaker 5: And I'm looking at this now and I'm thinking about

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Speaker 5: what is it about people such as BTK Dennis Raider

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Speaker 5: who have a great parents, good you know, siblings, But

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Speaker 5: there's this monster that just deep within them. And I

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Speaker 5: thought about this constantly. I wondered why her coat was

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Speaker 5: put back on her and zipped up to her chin.

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Speaker 5: We didn't know William Rose, and that's a great question.

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Speaker 5: And who was William Rose? We still need to find

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Speaker 5: that out.

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Speaker 2: Take a Lit's snower cut thirty two. This is Ron

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Speaker 2: Alder speaking.

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Speaker 10: They didn't know each other as best I can tell. Obviously,

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Speaker 10: he was twenty four members and she was nine. He

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Speaker 10: had family members that lived in the complex, so he

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Speaker 10: was probably in the complex quite a bit. In talking

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Speaker 10: with mister Randall. As children, they played outside a lot.

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Speaker 10: There was a playground right near the laundromat where w

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Speaker 10: was last scene, so they were outside a lot. If

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Speaker 10: you drove by, I'm sure he saw her, and I

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Speaker 10: believe that as a crime of opportunity. He saw her

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Speaker 10: by herself and he talked her.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now. The elected district attorney, who also

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Speaker 2: along with the Morris Nick saw this case through. If

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Speaker 2: it weren't for the elected DA saying yes, go go

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Speaker 2: use the money, spend the money, get the DNA analysis,

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Speaker 2: this would not have happened. Just know that, and know

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Speaker 2: that this elected district attorney is faced with thousands, thousands

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Speaker 2: of cases every day. All the families want answers, all

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Speaker 2: the families want justice. But we would not be here

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Speaker 2: today without the unfaltering dedication of Morris Knicks and this

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Speaker 2: elected district attorney. I hope you're listening Cobb County, mister Brodie.

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Speaker 2: How hard is it to solve a case when the

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Speaker 2: killer or the rapist is random. It's like a needle

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Speaker 2: in a haystack.

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Speaker 7: It is definitely a needle in a haystack. And that's

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Speaker 7: why I detectives like Morris Knicks are so important for

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Speaker 7: the criminal justice system. They have that dedication to do

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Speaker 7: the work that is going to take to solve these cases.

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Speaker 7: And we have to do everything we can to support

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Speaker 7: them because it is hard work. And Detective Nicks will

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Speaker 7: tell you they get attached to their victims. They want

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Speaker 7: to find that justice. They want to do the work

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Speaker 7: to make sure we bring an answer to these families

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Speaker 7: because they deserve one.

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Speaker 2: You know, another thing I like about you, Flynn D.

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Speaker 2: Brody Jr. Is that you are big enough to share

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Speaker 2: the praise. Guys, I want you to listen to Brody

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Speaker 2: speaking in our twenty.

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Speaker 3: Nine Many thanks to investigator Ron Alter and retired CCPD

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Speaker 3: detective Morris Nicks, their persistence and commitment to seeking justice

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Speaker 3: for Debbie Lynn's family was vital in bringing this case

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Speaker 3: to a close.

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Speaker 2: See, mister Brody, that's another thing about you that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people may not know. Like every day, I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting here in this chair, but it's not me. I'm

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Speaker 2: just a mouthpiece. Jackie's working, Sidney is working, Kelly is working,

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Speaker 2: Dave is working, John is working, Eelie's work. Everybody's working

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Speaker 2: together to present a criminal case, to spotlight a criminal case,

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Speaker 2: to look for answers, to push justice Ford one inch.

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Speaker 2: It's not me, it's them lifting me up. And for

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Speaker 2: you to call out to other people that have stuck

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Speaker 2: by this case is amazing because you know how many

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Speaker 2: people wouldn't do that. A lot a lot of people

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Speaker 2: wouldn't do that, Flynn, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: The key is I may be the mouthpiece, but I'm

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Speaker 7: definitely not the one doing the work. And my total

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Speaker 7: job is to get them the resources that they need

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Speaker 7: to bring justice to this community, to make sure that

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Speaker 7: we're doing the things that we need to do so

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Speaker 7: our victims have a voice.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now to kind of explain what has

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Speaker 2: really happened. Here? Is Toby Woolson or is it consultant

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Speaker 2: specializing in DNA erology bloodstain pattern analysis at no Slow

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Speaker 2: Forensics dot com. Toby, thank you, Toby is joining us

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Speaker 2: out of Miami. Thank you for taking time. Okay, what happened?

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Speaker 2: A It costs money. Now, the DA made sure that

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Speaker 2: some of the funds. And trust me, he said earlier,

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Speaker 2: you're not in this business for the money. I remember

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Speaker 2: working two night jobs while I was a DA. But

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Speaker 2: that said, you allocate the money to get the test.

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Speaker 2: But you've got a rag taken from Debbie's vaginal area,

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Speaker 2: from her vagina there, that's where I was, a rag

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Speaker 2: stuffed in her vagina to stop all the incredible bleeding,

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Speaker 2: the profuse bleeding. So how did that rag equal finding

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Speaker 2: the killer? How did that happen? William B. Rose raw

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Speaker 2: and Hail Rose? But how did it happen? Toby?

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Speaker 11: Well, good morning, Nancy. This is a good illustration of

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Speaker 11: how much improvement DNA technology has done in the thirty

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Speaker 11: years we've been using it, where we went from needing

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Speaker 11: large samples and getting very little information to now using

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Speaker 11: imperceptible samples. We have technologies now that are extremely sensitive

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Speaker 11: that require very small amounts of DNA in order to

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Speaker 11: get profiles. Now the RAG, I know the DNA Labs

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Speaker 11: International did the work on the RAG reading the news articles.

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Speaker 11: They use a piece of equipment I forget its name

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Speaker 11: off hand, but it's actually a vacuum and concentrator for

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Speaker 11: items in which they failed to get DNA or the

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Speaker 11: DNA we obtained from it was so small they couldn't

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Speaker 11: analyze it. So this piece of equipment that a lot

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Speaker 11: of laboratories using now that allows them to vacuum up

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Speaker 11: samples from these from these rags and from this degree

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Speaker 11: and then concentrate it and do analysis is you know,

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Speaker 11: just another example of how much things have changed. You know,

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Speaker 11: we went from taking something, doing a normal traditional extraction

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Speaker 11: on it and saying there's insufficient DNA to now hyper

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Speaker 11: pulling away the DNA on the on that item, concentrating

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Speaker 11: it and saying, oh, now I've got a sufficient sample

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Speaker 11: in order to do the DNA analysis. So all of

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Speaker 11: this is an example of how how far we've come

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Speaker 11: in such a short period of time with the ability

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Speaker 11: to take genetic material and use it to identify perpetrators

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Speaker 11: and victims and lost souls, you name it. Where you know,

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Speaker 11: they're now capable of doing it, and it's only going

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Speaker 11: to go much further. The next step is genetic sequencing.

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Speaker 11: Some laboratory are starting to look at it now, and

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Speaker 11: genetic sequencing when the traditional DNA analysis fails to give

435
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 11: you an answer, maybe the next step in fixing those samples.

436
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 11: The other advantage of genetic sequencing is that apparently it

437
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 11: will give the ability to tell the difference between twins

438
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 11: identical twins. Now when you do them traditional DNA wise

439
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 11: have the same profiles, but apparently their genetic sequences.

440
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't like twins in our business. I actually,

441
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: and I've got twins because I actually, I'm one of

442
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: those prosecutors, those rare prosecutors that actually had a murder

443
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: and agasaw. One guy was murdered, one guy was left

444
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: in a wheelchair forever over a handful of dot ropes

445
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: gold chains, and the perp had an identical twin. You

446
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: know those stories that start with I never thought it

447
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: would happen to me, It happened to me, okay, but

448
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: got the conviction that said he's talking about an m

449
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: Emazon mother VAT, which is a sterile wet vac wet

450
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: vacuum and a so called collection solution is sprayed onto

451
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: the surface the mvact. It looks like a handback. A

452
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 2: minivac is then put over the surface and it creates

453
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: a kind of a mini hurricane effect and it loosens

454
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: the DNA and sucks it up if there is any

455
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: to be loosened. And in this case, I'm just guessing,

456
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan that you had her blood and his

457
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: epiphilial or skin cells, possibly his sperm, but likely his

458
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: epifilial cells.

459
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, you would have. And this is what we refer

460
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 4: to as commingling of evidence. And when you can fine

461
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: tune the technology now so that you can separate it

462
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: out at this very minute level, it's quite amazing to see.

463
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 4: There's also a big part, and I think that maybe

464
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: Morse can address this, but there was also a big

465
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 4: part of this was a straight hair that was also found, which,

466
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: of course, you know, we can either if you have

467
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 4: the root ball, we can do you know, nuclear DNA

468
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 4: testing on it or mitochondrial DNA testing on it.

469
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: Exactly without the nucleus the root of the hair, you

470
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: can still conduct to mitochondrial DNA analysis. Guys, take us

471
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: an our cut thirty five.

472
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 10: A family member, a distant family member contributed DNA, actually

473
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 10: multiple contributed DNA to family treating DNA or a dead

474
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 10: match pro which are the two open source sites for

475
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 10: ancestry that law enforcement has access to. And genealogists with

476
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 10: DNA Labs International were able to work through that till

477
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 10: they got a narrower list of suspects and from there

478
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 10: we inviewed people and worked our way to mister.

479
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: Roscow Time Stories with Nancy Grease.

480
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: Let's break down how that happens. Jessica Nole with me,

481
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: investigative journalist, producer of the investigators. So if you get

482
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: the DNA from the m fact that Joe Scott Morgan's

483
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: talking about and Toby Wilson is talking about, you get

484
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: some DNA, but you gotta have somebody to match it to.

485
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: I mean how many times Flynn Brody Junior, the elected

486
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: DA do you hear? Well, did you get a fingerprint? Yeah,

487
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: we got a fingerprint off the window sill, but you

488
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: have to match it to somebody or you don't know

489
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: whose it is. Same thing with DNA, right, jury's expected

490
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: on every case. Oh boy, do they ever? So you

491
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: get DNA from this elaborate and new technique of the

492
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: m as a mother m VAC. But whose is it? Well,

493
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: place you look mars Nicks. But first place I look

494
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: is at the jail. You right through the GCIC Georgia,

495
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: NCIC National and see has any other defendant in the

496
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: country Do any of them have the same DNA? That's

497
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: where you start, right.

498
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 5: That's where we start. And we could not figure out

499
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 5: why we were not getting a CODIS hit on this individual,

500
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 5: thinking that whoever did this certainly would do it again.

501
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 5: And I even at one point it started looking at

502
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: people who had already been executed for similar offenses. We

503
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 5: got nothing who was totally.

504
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: Not on the way of you know, you are amazing.

505
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: I didn't realize you even went back to people that

506
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: have been executed or dead to find a match. Nothing

507
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: in GCIC or NCIC, which all goes to CODIS. That

508
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: means in some cases, when you are arrested for let's

509
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: just say a raper and murder, your d found the scene,

510
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: that DNA goes into the code's database. You run people's

511
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: rap sheets, you try to find people with similar cases

512
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: in the past, and believe me. Isn't it true, Doctor

513
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: Angie Arnold? It's very hard to believe this guy went

514
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: from zero to one hundred and twenty mph in one moment,

515
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: that he didn't have anything before this, But he didn't.

516
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 8: Well, are we sure about that?

517
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: No, we're not sure. I am sure. He wasn't prosecuted anything.

518
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean exact.

519
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 8: That doesn't mean that he wasn't killing somebody's animals in

520
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 8: the backyard. Doesn't know it, doesn't Like you said, Nancy,

521
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 8: Like you said, there is no way that somebody's just

522
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 8: walking down the street and all of a sudden some

523
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 8: impulse hits them to do such a heinous act to

524
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 8: another human being because they need more.

525
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: But what finally happened here, they.

526
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 8: Don't have more and more to get the same gratification

527
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 8: out of their acts, and they have practiced other things

528
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 8: before they do something like this.

529
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yes, yes, like torturing animals. Absolutely so to you.

530
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 2: Morris Nicks, former detective in Cobb County cold case unit.

531
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: So you get the DNA off the MBAC and then

532
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: the current District Attorney's office had geneticist then compare it

533
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 2: to open public family trees like Jedged match and others,

534
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: thefamilytree dot com those and Bam you get a match.

535
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: Were you surprised Morris Knicks that the purp is without

536
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: a doubt? Then twenty four year old William B.

537
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 5: Rose, I can't even describe it an When ron Oldtter

538
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 5: called me, he'd called me once before until we've got

539
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 5: it down to two states. He called me back again

540
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 5: and said we have found his daughter. I did not

541
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 5: sleep for seventy two hours. Then they assumed the body.

542
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 5: He called me back and said, that's it, it's done.

543
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: You exhumed the perhaps body.

544
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 5: They did.

545
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: Yes, I am so amazed. Flynn Brody Jr. Could you

546
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 2: tell everybody how difficult that it is to get an

547
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: exhamation order. It's not easy, No.

548
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 7: It's definitely not easy, not even easy, but you know,

549
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 7: it's kind of expensive. But we wanted to make sure

550
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 7: that we had the right person. We wanted to bring

551
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 7: true closure, to make sure that this was a complete

552
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 7: DNA match, and that was the only way we could

553
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 7: do it.

554
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: Joining me is Debbie's sister, Melvin Randall, who has gone

555
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 2: He was ten. Debbie was nine when she was kidnapped

556
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 2: and murdered. Melvin Randall, How did you find out her

557
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: killer had been found?

558
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 6: Mister Nicks notified me a while back, letting we know

559
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 6: that the possibility was great that they had found him,

560
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 6: and said that there was a little more testing to

561
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 6: do to make sure absolutely sure before they announced it.

562
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 6: And that's how I found out was mister Mister Nickson

563
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 6: has been great help to my family in many ways,

564
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 6: and I would like to thank him again, but mister

565
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 6: Nixon is the one they let me know for sure

566
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 6: at the District Attorney's office. Both were calling me and

567
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 6: letting me know the information.

568
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 2: Melvin, what are your feelings and your thoughts on the

569
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: fact that this rapist as child rapist is killer. William B.

570
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: Rose committed suicide two years after he murdered Debbie Well.

571
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 6: I think that I think that he probably his conscience

572
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 6: might have got to him, is what I'm thinking. I mean,

573
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 6: I'm not I wasn't there. I don't know, but that's

574
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 6: what I feel. I feel that maybe his conscious did

575
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 6: get to it, and that's why I committed suicide.

576
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 2: How do you feel emotionally, not logically, but how do

577
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 2: you feel about the fact that he's dead? He will

578
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: never have to face you or any of Debbie's family

579
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: in a court of law.

580
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 6: I don't think I would like to have faced him

581
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 6: in the first place, because I don't know what I

582
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 6: would have done. I probably would have been all these

583
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 6: people that would have done something stupid. So I'm sort

584
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 6: of grateful that you know that it this way, because

585
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 6: it makes it a little easier.

586
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: Melvin. Can I tell you something, ma'am, from somebody that knows.

587
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 2: Every day, I wonder, did I do the wrong thing

588
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: by not just shooting case killer there in the courtroom.

589
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: Should I have done that? Of course if I had,

590
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have John, David and Lucy. I wouldn't have David.

591
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: So I guess the Lord protected me.

592
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, because that's what I thought for a lot of years.

593
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 6: I wish they would find out and I would go retaliate.

594
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 6: But that's not what we should do. What we should

595
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 6: do is just no.

596
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 2: It's not you know what we should do. We should

597
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: do what Flynde Brody Jr. And Morris Knicks do every

598
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 2: day of their lives. And they are fine examples for

599
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: me to follow. They don't quit, they keep going, They

600
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: work within the law, and they seek justice. And I

601
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: am happy to say Congratulations District Attorney Brody, and congratulations

602
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 2: Mars Nicks. And God bless you Melvin Randall. And may

603
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 2: your parents and Debbie's parents rest in peace with her now.

604
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:09,280
Speaker 2: Good Bye friends,