WEBVTT - How Police Sketches Work 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know front House, Stuff 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:12.760 Works dot Com. Chuck Chuck Chuck. Before we get started, 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.040 we should tell everybody we have a brand new animated 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.040 web series. It's awesome. Yeah, they're animated shorts by this 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.000 dude that was a fan. Started out as a fan. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.360 They shown and said, hey, I'd like to do this 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.440 for you, and we hired him and he's done ten episode. Dude, 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.680 he's amazing. It's really very cool. Actually, he's one of 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.239 the most astute um animators I've ever seen in my 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.040 entire life. Like he just a little pauses and things 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.440 like that that I wouldn't have noticed we did. He 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.080 totally gets and then just exaggerates through animation. It's pretty 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.519 amazing stuff. Yeah, and the reaction to these so far 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:46.720 have been great. People seem to really like them, and 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.680 so we wanted to get the word out on the podcast. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.200 Just go to Stuff you Should Know dot com, click 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.400 on the videos dab and you're gonna see one and 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.920 they're gonna release one each Monday. But it's ten weeks 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.160 and uh, pretty awesome. I think you'll enjoy it. Hopefully 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.399 it'll keep going on longer than ten weeks. Two if 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.320 Shan's arm doesn't give out tread. Yeah. Well, so thanks 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.679 a lot to Nicktion for the just amazing animated series 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.920 he's delivered to us, and thank you in advance for 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.360 watching it at Stuff you Should Know dot com. Yeah, 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:22.440 share it with some friends. Yeah, that's your problem, all right. Ready, Hey, 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.440 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Just's Charles W. 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.760 Chuck Bryant. She's done the best mood today. He just 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.240 ruined my mood. Like seconds before we recorded. Um, I 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.319 was heading in a good direction. I didn't ruin you. 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.440 You reminded me of some task that we have to 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.680 do tomorrow, Like why did what? Can you just wait 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.640 a full after we recorded to say those words? Uh? 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.600 Because that's okay. I liked, I liked. I wanted to 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:50.480 get it off my chest. That's Thursday, and you know 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.960 what today is Tuesday. He would be mad until then. No, 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.440 I'm saying I'm gonna put off being mad again until Thursday. 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.240 Put on a sunshine face, Smiley. It's kind of hard 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.639 in the serial killer layer. But I hate this place. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.960 I hate this place. I'm gonna use every bit of 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.679 power that I have, which is not much around here, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:14.320 and you know how that works out? This change the 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.200 very least. Can we turn the overhead fluorescent lights on? No, 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.480 we don't want that. Does it not work? No, we 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.600 don't want that one. Are you sure well? I mean, 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.120 what is that would make it more serial killer light? 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:30.200 If that's all right, we'll turn it off. Thanks Casey, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.640 Casey as our editor again. Oh yeah, uh that's Chuck 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:36.600 and I'm Josh And this is stuff you should know. 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.760 That may have been her most slap dash ever intro. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.320 Uh no, prepare for that one. Are you familiar with 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.440 the guy named Timothy McVeigh um. I do not know 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.160 him personally, but I am familiar with his work. So 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:56.079 in he uh rented a truck, a rental truck, packed 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.520 it full of fertilizer nitrogen based explosives of it, parked 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.920 it next to the Alfred pi Mura Federal Building in 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:08.600 Oklahoma City and detonated it and killed um oh, got 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.400 a hundred and sixty eight people, including a bunch of 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.240 kids at a daycare center in the building. I was 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.520 I remember seeing that as it unfolded. That was one 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.840 of the few that I was up early when I 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.840 was living in New Jersey. And do you remember the 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:26.359 view of that billings missing. It was horrific because I mean, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.640 this is pretty two thousand one, and this is at 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.359 a time when he was like, terrorism happens in Beirut. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.320 I just don't fly a plane from Germany to Beirut. 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.440 And you're gonna be fine if you're in America. This 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:39.920 was weird. I mean, like it was after the World 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.080 Trade Center bombing, the first one, but that one hadn't 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.920 gone very well. And I remember I think America felt 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.720 a little cocky. This was the first big homeland incident 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:53.240 that kind of shocked everyone. I think. Ye. So, uh, 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:58.160 Timothy McVeigh got away and it wasn't even a suicide bombing, right, 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.840 he got away Within two hours, he happened to be 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.720 pulled over for a traffic violation and the cops said, 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.560 you seem a little hinky, skinny. Um, let me search 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.680 your car and found some weapons and said are these 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.560 do you have registration for these? And I'm sure Timothy 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.760 mcbate sid some crazy thing like I don't I don't 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.640 see I'm I don't bow to your authority, pig or 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.880 something like that, and um, and the cops that, well, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:30.720 you're coming with me just on suspicion. Totally totally accidental. 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.480 It was totally happenstance, as Congra put it in this article, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.320 that he was pulled over, but he was ultimately found 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.880 out as the um guy who blew up the Federal 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.039 building in Oklahoma City because while he was in police 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.440 custody after being pulled over a um a police sketch 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.520 came across the wire and this police uh this, I 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.400 guess the highway patrol looked at it and said, you 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.560 know what, this looks a lot like our guy. And 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.320 in fact that was and this police sketch helped catch 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.520 the Oklahoma City bomber. Have you seen it was ultimately executed. 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.080 Have you seen a sketch? Yeah, it's in the article, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.120 and it's actually like it's pretty good. It is. At 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.599 first glance, it's like, that's not that great, and then 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.359 when you really start to look at it feature by feature, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.359 it's pretty close or maybe two things that should have 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.720 been changed, or when you look at other police sketches 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.839 you realize this one falls in the what will learn 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:32.200 later is a very small percentage. Yeah, the nine that 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.520 are pretty aren't accurate. Yeah, And if you are in 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.240 the mood for amusement. You can type in funny police sketches, 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.360 bizarre police sketches. There's a lot of image galleries out 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.640 there of just there's no other way to put it, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.120 really bad police sketches, and hilariously, some of them are 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.839 in like there it's a photo of a police sketch 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.000 in a newspaper, so like they made it out and 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.080 we're disseminated and and um, yeah, well we'll learn they 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:05.080 were varying levels of competency and artistic merit when it 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.160 comes to these, so that's probably where you get. Uh, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.640 did you ever see the one where they did the 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.640 literary characters? No. I think they gathered sketch artists to 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.320 do some of the more famous literary characters based on 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:22.400 their book descriptions. And uh, it was pretty cool. Casey's nodding. 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.200 Did you see that? It was awesome? It was like 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.400 a big, you know, internet thing a couple of years ago. Um, 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.240 I have not seen it. I would like to, like, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.680 what is what is the Great Gatsby look like? I'm 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.880 also I'm fond of those ones where they illustrate like um, 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.719 like with photo realism a cartoon character like what they 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:42.800 look like and really like those Beavis and butt Head 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.680 sculptures are so creepy, aren't they? And I think everyone 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:47.160 looked at those and be like, wait a minute, I 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.400 think I knew that exactly. Yeah. Um, so we shouldn't 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.960 just lay uh. We shouldn't start the whole thing out 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.240 by making fun of police sketches either. There are some 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.240 really bad ones. Um. You could have a really genuinely 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:04.160 talented artist with um with a sketch pad in hand, 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.560 and if the eye witness isn't isn't giving it up, 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.320 well it's not gonna come anywhere close exactly. Ultimately it 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.800 comes down to the eye witness. The problem is is 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:17.440 we're going to find out eye witnesses are not very reliable, 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.080 and so it's up to them, the police sketch artist, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.040 to figure out how to call information from the eye witness. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.560 That eye witness might not even know they know the 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.720 sweet science that's boxing though, that's right. I've never understood 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.280 why it's called sweet or science. It doesn't make any 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.000 sense either way. I think that's the whole point. As 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:42.480 they call it a science too, combat the notion that 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.560 it's just like two brawling guys. That's like a lot 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:50.240 more strategy yeah, I'm not a big fan of M 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.560 M A, but I like boxing. Um. Okay, So a 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.360 police sketching has been around for a while. In fact, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.680 there was a there's an anecdote in here about a 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:04.680 guy named Annabel Karaate you should say him Annabella yea 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.800 who It was a sixteenth century painter, a good one too, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.920 And as a boy he and his father were attacked 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:20.040 by robbers um on the road to Cremona, and Karachi said, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.480 you know what, I have a secret weapon you don't 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.800 know about. I'm going to draw you guys my hands. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.400 Yeah exactly. Uh, and he drew the band of robbers 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.800 and apparently he did such a good job. The robbers 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.240 were immediately identified and the kid got his father's stuff back. 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.080 That's a great story, at least, whether it's you or not. Right. 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.800 The modern police sketching came about around the time of 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.760 Jack the Ripper. Actually, oh yeah, there were a lot 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.720 of police sketches associated with the Jack the Ripper case, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.080 and that was actually one of the early one of 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.840 the births of forensic police work, which was actually founded 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.240 by a guy named Alphonse Bertillon. Yes, and the teen 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:05.880 eighties in France, obviously because from Josh's outrageous accent. Uh, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.240 you could tell. So this guy was a criminologist and 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:16.640 he started he became obsessed, some say, with notating these 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:20.400 physical characteristics of various criminals. And he would measure them 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.280 and measure their forehead, measure their arms and ears and 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:31.240 just anything anything that stood out, you know, scars two 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:37.560 twos and uh. It became known as criminal anthropometry, and 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:44.679 in four the police there in France napped repeat offenders 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.840 based on his notations. And from that people started saying, 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.200 you know, what might be good to start noting what 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.720 these people look like and drawing them because that could 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.559 help us. Yeah. Um. At first he was just looking 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.960 to find repeat offenders that kept coming in and out, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.920 because this is prior to fingerprinting being a reliable technique. Sure, um. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.840 But eventually, like yeah, people started to think, maybe we 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:14.000 should start using this one particular thing called sketching, please, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:19.040 sketching to um to create a what an image of 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.520 a suspect, a lead perhaps exactly. And we mentioned this 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.440 guy in our crime Scene Photography episode if you remember, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:30.440 because he started that as well. Oh yeah, yeah, same guy, 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.840 same guy. Wow, we have a lot to Yeah, he 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.160 was he was an obsessive Frenchman that we owe a 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:42.240 lot too. Alright, So a forensic artist these days, Um 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.199 it sort of depends on what kind of outfit you're 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.880 running with. Um it could, because they point out in 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.200 here it was this Connor um Kristen points out that 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.080 if you're in a sort of a small town, it 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.080 might just be a cop that draws better than the 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.640 rest of the cops on the course exactly, who was 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.079 like a patrolman otherwise. But it's like, we need some 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.240 money to make the sketch, and hey, I took some 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:13.280 art classes. Turtle what a turtle of the pirate? Or 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.720 I can't remember the other thing? What was that? Anyway? 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:21.120 It was for art mail in art courses and you 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.200 would if you could draw it really well, you sent 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.760 it in and what got what? Like you some money too, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.600 and they would teach you how to draw even better? 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.080 Got you? It was a mail in art art courses, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:34.839 And I just knew it was some sort of a 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.960 scam probably, but necessarily there's I'm sure they taught you 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.000 some techniques. I just remember that as like part of 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.360 the simpler times. Yeah, me too, you know, if that 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.280 was if that was the only scammy. Come on that 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.240 and see monkeys. That's all you gotta worry about it. 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.600 Those were real there, Brian shrimp, and they were alive. 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.560 They were they were, but they don't have faces and 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.520 stand around and chat like the little cartoon depicted. Um. Okay, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.320 So it might be a patrol officer that control really well, 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:09.880 or a civilian contractor that's you know, qualified, although I've 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:15.480 learned there is no um like official university degree that 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.040 you can earn. No, but you can go of course, 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.920 you can go to the FBI. They have a training 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.240 program for forensic art and a lot of private people. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.160 Private people teach this kind of thing too. So um. 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.200 So it could be a private uh civilian contractor. Or 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.199 it could be you know, a full time fully employed 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.640 artists that you have on staff. I guess if you've 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.520 got enough crime going on, might be good to pay 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.079 that person on a yearly basis instead of like, hey, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.600 we gotta murder once every six months. You know, like 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.959 Atlanta probably has their own sketch artists, is what I'm guessing. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.679 I wonder. I bet they do, or more than one. Probably, Oh, 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.839 I don't know, you know, think, No, we have to 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:00.880 look into this. We need find out a the crime 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:05.480 in Atlanta. Um, so that if you are a witness 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.040 to a crime and you agree to do uh to 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.640 give some some eye witness accounts to a police sketch artist, 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.199 you're going to find um. Well, it's kind of like 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.240 the lie detector test a little bit. It can be 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.839 broken on into three parts. Never thought that. And the 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.480 first part is just like what you will get when 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.920 you go take a lie detector. That's report building sure, 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.319 where the police sketch artist is saying like, hey, how's 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.800 it going. How are you feeling? You're okay, everything's good. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.280 You want some ice cream? Can I get you a 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.400 Coca cola? What's going on? My name is Day. This 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.760 is a pencil, and this is a sketchpad. Right, don't 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.040 make yourself comfortable. Um you can. You can throw those 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:48.480 magazines anywhere. Um, just just have a seat. I'm sorry, 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.040 I'm an artist. And and is there my cramped quarters. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.400 I'm gonna go off and smoke some opium. I'll be 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.480 right back. Let me go get my beret. So that 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.280 is part one, wherein they just arm and make the 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.640 person feel comfortable. That's right, That is not true. Uh, 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.319 then what's the second part called uh that is recall. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.560 It's free recall. It's basically like, tell me everything you 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.560 remember about this person. And apparently most eyewitnesses start with 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.240 the shape of the head or the hair, usually the hair. Sure, 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:22.960 that makes sense. Like if I were to describe, you 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:28.560 would be like, well, he had fantastic hair and a beard. Yeah, 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:35.000 and then draw, Yeah, they would draw you know, Zach Galifanakis, Yes, 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.680 he has great hair and a beard. He does have 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:41.520 a nice hair, didn't he. You can call the main 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.680 it's a main. Uh, And the guy would be like, really, 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.520 that's it. That's the free recalls over, and you'd be like, yes, 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.200 let's move to part three. Well this is but that's 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.560 a perfect point. Even though you're getting around about why 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.680 I bet. A lot of times these artists are just 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:02.760 like like, come on, and I'm really trying here, but 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.240 you're not giving me much besides horse face. And apparently 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.040 that's what a lot of people say. He had a 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.360 horse face or he had bug eyes or something like that. 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:16.560 And again, part of the forensic artists, um the sweet science, right, 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.080 part of their job is to say, okay, well I 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.200 kind of know what they're talking about, and they can't 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.880 just like draw bug eyes. They know that bug eyes 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.760 also includes like a certain kind of bridge of the 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:32.040 nose and like makes the cheekbones go this way. And 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.320 so if you say bug eyes, it can be helpful 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.400 too if you're saying it to an experience. Forensic artists. Yeah, 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:39.520 I mean, that's that's the great skill I guess to 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.560 draw those things out right literally, And so that's part 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.880 of free recall, where the the eyewitness or the victims says, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.400 you know, here's all the stuff I remember buck teeth, um, 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.200 claw hands, um, but wearing like a high lace call 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.440 or like you'd see on like Emily Dickinson or goiter disco. 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.520 I uh. And then they say, okay, well, I'm glad 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.320 you came up with all that really means stuff to 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.320 say about this this perpetrator. Yeah, let's but we didn't 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.400 talk about the mouth. So tell me about the mouth. 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.160 What did the mouth look like? Did it you know, look, 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:14.680 did it look like this? Did it look like that? 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:17.000 That's a cute recall. Yeah, And they may bring out 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.520 pictures of other criminals in the database just to see, like, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.280 you know, did he look like this guy with a 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.400 big nose or this guy with a big nose. They 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.080 might pull out celebrities and show them celebrities because I 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.800 guess and the person sam, it's Burt Reynolds, right, he 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.800 did this to me. But I guess that can help. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.040 I think people operate on those terms in this age 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.320 of celebrity anyway, because when someone says, you know, what's 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.440 what does your friend look like? If I'm setting your 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.520 friend up, and you would often say, you wouldn't say, well, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.480 he's got a horse face and great cheekbones. He would 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:54.400 say he looks like, you know, Josh Dohamel, because that's 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.920 just the way we operate because everyone knows those faces. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.120 So it doesn't surprise me that they use that tactic. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.480 I'm with you, you know, in yeah, man, it's sad, 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:03.840 but it's the way things are these days. Well it's 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.240 part of our the way we remember things, as we'll 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:12.840 see eventually. Yeah. Um, so you've got the the interviews 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.720 kind of done, the que recalls done um, and the 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.560 forensic artists has probably been kind of sketching. It's a 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.280 work in progress for sure, right, But as the work progresses, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.560 the the the eyewitness will probably be like, oh yeah, 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.600 that's like starting to look like this person, but maybe 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.520 just change this a little bit, change that, and as 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.040 the this this kind of fourth part where they're working 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.360 together to kind of carry out the details. Um, that's 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.959 when the sketch really starts to pop. That's when they 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.000 put like the shadow and the eye or something had 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.280 a third eye in the intermaw swords where to God? 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.520 All right, so who who are these people? Well, again 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.240 you said that they might may or may not be 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.439 a full time employee. Should just be like a patrol 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.320 officer who's good at drawing, or I guess what are 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.760 their what are their skills? Like, if you're not an 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.480 artist with a pen, you can use things like computers, right, Well, yeah, 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.520 sometimes you don't even have to have skills. So in 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.880 nine a company called the Townsend Corporation introduced this thing 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.520 in the United States called Identicate Yahn. It is still 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.080 around now, there's Identicate two thousand. Yeah, this version six 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.000 point is what they're on. So originally Identicate was a 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.159 wooden box that had a bunch of little um, I 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:32.200 guess plastic like know what it was it called where 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:37.760 that you used on the overhead like an overhead projector yeah, 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.640 what with the transparency transparencies, and then that transparency would 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.000 have a certain type of eyebrows, and then another transparency 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.960 have a certain type of eyes, certain type of nose, 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.840 and you have this this literal toolkit of facial characteristics 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.560 that anybody you didn't have to draw anything to the 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:57.919 did the eyebrows look like this? Yes, and then you 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.240 construct a face like that. That's pretty cool. It is 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:05.800 pretty cool, but also created some pretty laughable UM images. 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.960 And we should say that that that that's what's called 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.600 a composite image. It's like a bunch of different stuff together. 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.480 You could also call a composite image. If a police 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:16.919 sketch artists interviews a bunch of different eye witnesses and 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.320 then pulls it all together, that's a composite image as well. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.800 That that's frustrating, Yeah, you know, because people see things 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:25.960 so differently. It's like he had a small nose, he 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.280 had a huge nose, and the guy's just the artist 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.240 that the lady of the dude is just like, oh 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:37.080 my god, here, when is it five o'clock? Eye witnesses? Um, 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.119 so you've got identicate you have. That was the first 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.320 one UM and they've kind of expanded on that ever since. 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.240 Then and entered the realm of computer software. And there's 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:51.760 basically like a division among forensic artists computer or paper, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.480 and a lot of people say why not both man 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.840 so um. For example, there's a guy in the NYPD 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.800 who uses nothing but um pencil and paper, Stephen Mancusie. 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.240 Then there's a guy named Roderick Scratchard who, um it 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.840 works for Philly, and he basically creates a composite of 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:15.520 all like a computer composite of all the features, and 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.840 then he draws a sketch from that composite, and um, 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:21.639 both of them kind of have in common the idea 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.680 that a hand drawn sketch is better than a computer composite, 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.800 and that FBI actually agrees. Yeah, I mean that's my 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.080 first question was why would this guy draw it after 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.680 he's done the computer composite? Because they found there's about 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.240 a four percent greater likelihood of it being accurate when 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.040 it's hand drawn. Yeah, it gives the ability to add 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.560 more nuance. And apparently computer software is getting better and 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.439 better at that, but you still can't compare to a 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.399 really good hand drawn composite sketch. And and those numbers 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.720 are right. Sadly, nine percent of the time for hand 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.600 drawn in five percent at the time do you create 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:03.000 what ends up being uh in terms of what being 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:07.240 accurate in terms of like producing an image that looks 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:11.440 like the suspect, right, that's recognizable as yeah, that's that person. Yeah. 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.199 So it's not like they take the percentage on the 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:15.919 number of people who are the number of sketches that 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.560 it actually led to an apprehension, but that's probably way lower. 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.359 Even that's the only way to create this estimate is 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.240 by taking a police sketch and then taking a picture 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.000 of the guy who was eventually caught for this and 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:31.399 comparing them. They have a good website that um that 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.560 I found today that had some of the more famous 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.600 you know, killers and then their police sketches and a 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.320 lot of them are pretty good. Yeah, you know close, yeah, 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.199 and that's what what you're gunning for. You know, you 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.360 can't do a photo real picture of someone because, as 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.320 we're about to learn, people's memories suck. Right. So, like 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.960 we said, if you have a really great police sketch 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.040 artist and a really bad eye witness, you're not going 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:59.520 to produce a recognizable sketch. Um. And the reason why 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:05.800 I wentness by witness testimony um is so unreliable. Is 0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:09.200 basically like what you were talking about earlier, Like when 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.240 you're saying, like you set your friend up with somebody 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.440 else and you don't say that they have bug eyes 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:21.080 or horse face, they look like who And that's the case, ladies, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:25.080 you're in luck. The reason we do that is because 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.359 we use what's called recognition memory, where we we look 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.320 at someone's face as a whole. We look at the 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.920 forest rather than the trees. If we were to look 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.600 at it as the trees, that what the eyes look like, 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.320 what the eyebrows look like, what the nose looks like, 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.320 what the mouth looks like, and broke it down in 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:44.320 those component parts, that would be recall memory, and it 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.840 would pretty much be perfect. Our recall memory requires like 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:52.679 almost no priming. Recognition memory does require priming. So you 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.199