1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You. From House to 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And with the passing of former 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in April of this year, 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: at first we thought, hey, maybe we should do a 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: podcast on Margaret Thatcher because she was such a you know, 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: landmark female politician, obviously left behind quite a legacy, some 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: would say contentious legacy. But we thought that Margaret Thatcher, 9 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: it might be a good jumping off point because of 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: her contentious legacy when it comes to women and how 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: women regard Thatcher and vice versa, to look into maybe 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: the bigger question of female politicians impact on women, because 13 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: maybe the assumption is that, hey, if we elect a 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: woman to whatever political office, she is going to be 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: better for the female electorate because she'll think about things 16 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: maybe men won't, not necessarily, not necessarily. So you thanks 17 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: for listening right to us at mom Stuff at Discovery 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Uh No, but first, let's um Margaret Thatcher 19 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: is such a prime example though of this. So for 20 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: a brief snapshot now that hopefully uh that your fatigue 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: post post the funeral has has maybe ebbed a little bit. 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: Let's revisit Margaret Thatcher just to get an idea of 23 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: where she came from and why she was so important, 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: and her British listeners right now are probably like, really 25 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: do we need do you need need a primer in this? Well, yes, 26 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: British listeners, everyone else does, especially our Canadian listeners, just 27 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: kidding right Well. She grew up in a small market 28 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: town of Lincoln, Sure, and had a really special relationship 29 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: with her father. Was really interesting to read about how 30 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: much her father inspired her and drove her to succeed 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: and kind of stand out from the herd, which she did. 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: In college, she studied chemistry at Oxford, so that's no 33 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: small potatoes, and there she became involved in conservative politics 34 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: and was elected president of a student Conservative association, where 35 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: she met a number of prominent politicians and pretty quickly 36 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: her attention shifted from chemistry, a male dominated segment, to 37 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: another male dominated segment of politics. She became the youngest 38 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: female parliament candidate in British history when in nineteen fifty 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: and nineteen fifty one she ran as the Conservative candidate 40 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: for the Labor seat in Dartford, but she lost, but 41 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: still she won publicity because hey, youngest female candidate in history, Hurrah. 42 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: And in nineteen fifty nine she was finally elected to 43 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Arliament and she ended up climbing the party ranks and 44 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: became Education Secretary in nineteen seventy and she was not 45 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: popular with a lot of people. As Education Secretary, one 46 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: of the first things she did was removed the school 47 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: milk program, the free milk for school children, where she 48 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: was known as Margaret Thatcher the milk snatcher. Yeah, that's 49 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: that's some that's unfortunate rhyming. Yeah, you know, works out well, 50 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, bad um okay. So in n moving on, 51 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: she beat out the party head to become a leader 52 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: of the opposition in the House of Commons, becoming the 53 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: first woman to lead a Western political party. And then 54 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, the big year comes Margaret Thatcher 55 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: becomes Prime Minister for eleven and a half years, in 56 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: which time she wins three successive elections, and she ended 57 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: up retiring right before the fourth election, but she was 58 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: kind of ousted by her party. Basically was not going 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 1: to be able to win the of course, and rather 60 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: than losing, she retired, which is kind of funny because 61 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: there's this Vanity Fair profile of her, and at the 62 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: very beginning of the profile, the author talks about how, 63 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: um he was talking to Margaret Thatcher once and she 64 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: was working on she just started working on her memoirs, 65 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: and he was like, well, what what's the title. What's 66 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: the working title going to be? And she said undefeated 67 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: and he was like, okay, I mean technically yes, but 68 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 1: but of course as Prime Minister, she became the first 69 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: woman to lead a major Western democracy. So, you know, 70 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned her legacy and how contentious it is. Why 71 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: did she become such a living shrine? As Claire Brolinsky 72 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: says in her book, there is no alternative Why Margaret 73 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: Thatcher matter. She opens the book talking about how all 74 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: of these conservative American politicians kind of went to you know, 75 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: kiss her ring when they were running for president and 76 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: why what does that mean? And she she kind of 77 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: looks at Thatcher's legacy and points out that number one, 78 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: she was the most vigorous, determined and successful enemies of socialism. 79 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: Number Two, she's widely perceived to have reduced the terminal 80 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: decline of Britain because it had been you know, I 81 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: don't need to tell you this. It had been the 82 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: most powerful nation in the world, but post World War 83 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: Two went downhill. She actually viewed the decline as punishment 84 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: for imperialism and socialism. But number three, as Berlinski points out, 85 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: Thatcher achieved things that no woman before her had achieved, 86 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: and she did so, Berlinski says, in a remarkable fashion, 87 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: simultaneously exploiting every politically useful aspect of her femininity and 88 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: then turning every conventional expectation of women upside down. And 89 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: yet at the same time, though still maintaining so many 90 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: like kind of outward signs of traditional femininity in terms 91 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: of she was very insistent though that her marriage be 92 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: portrayed in very traditional gender roles. Even though she was 93 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: Prime minister, she still wanted to maintain the image of, 94 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: you know, being a good wife and mother to her 95 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: twin son and daughter. And she was also for instance, 96 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: known for carrying a purse everywhere she went. And uh 97 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: she also in the in the courses we'll talk about more, 98 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: in the course of doing all these things that women 99 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: had really not done to the extent that she had, 100 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: she took no women along with her for the ride. Now, 101 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: according to that vanity fair profile. You know, she never 102 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: wanted to appear to upset the outward appearances of the 103 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: old order, because winning that power and that trust of 104 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,679 Speaker 1: the nation really required that she not rocked the boat. 105 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: So it was helpful to her. A lot of people 106 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: have written that she was so conservative. She She's like, 107 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: you know, I'm one of you. I'm a woman, but 108 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: i am one of you. And in that any fair 109 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: article they do talk about how you know, she really 110 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: extolled the virtues of quote unquote real men and confirmed 111 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: the entrenched belief that women are unrepresented, underrepresented excuse me, 112 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: at the highest levels of politics, not because of ingrained sexism, 113 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: but because they just chose not to participate. They were 114 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps like she did. 115 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: But at the same time, though, even though uh Thatcher 116 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: might have some some sketchy perceptions on women's aspirations politically 117 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: or otherwise, she inadvertently served as an inspiration to women politicians. 118 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: For instance, German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said, quote she 119 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: set an example to many other after in that she 120 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: succeeded as a woman in the highest democratic office at 121 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: a time when that was not yet a matter of course, 122 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: and that is something like, regardless of political affiliation, seeing 123 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: a female candidate at the time made a lot of 124 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: people uneasy. Um. And then going on the Prime Minister 125 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: of Trinidad and Tobago, Kamala Persad Bissessar has said the 126 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: decisiveness with which she let her government serves as a 127 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: continuing inspiration to me personally on a daily basis. I mean, 128 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: the kind of decisiveness that's often referenced is with the 129 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: Falklands War, where she immediately sent troops in there, and 130 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean the the war lasted what seventy nine days. 131 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: I mean it was even an incredibly fast turnaround. And 132 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: then um, when some Ira prisoners went on hunger strikes, 133 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: she refused to give in to their demands and as 134 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: a result, some of them died. I mean, she adopted 135 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: the nickname Iron Lady for a reason initially was bestowed 136 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: on her by the Soviets, and she liked it. She 137 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I will, I'll take that. Yeah. 138 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: And it's interesting though that rhetorically, you know, we we 139 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: associated with the notion of the Iron Lady because while 140 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: she's adopting that, these those characteristics of being very staunched 141 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: and very determined. Um, she was having to mold herself 142 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: appearance wise to become more it is palatable for public 143 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: consumption in the sickening way that female politicians are still 144 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: have to do to an extent that no male politician 145 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: I think has ever had to do. I mean, think 146 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: about with Hillary Clinton, all of the appearance based attacks 147 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: that she has endured. Just as one example, Margaret Thatcher 148 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: endured the same kind of thing, right, And I didn't 149 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: even know this that she got vocal training with Laurence 150 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: Olivier as part of her leadership right, and in that 151 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair profile they talk about her teeth were mocked, 152 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: um and just pretty much everything, and she went through 153 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: a stylistic change. I think she did get her teeth corrected. 154 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: Like you said, she went through vocal training, all of 155 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: this stuff to try to mold herself into uh, inward 156 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: and outward, this iron woman who really you couldn't penetrate. 157 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: But meanwhile, you know, her politics were extremely conservative. She's 158 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: known very much for aligning with the U S President 159 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: at the time, Ronald Reagan, and along with her conservatism, 160 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: UH came some not so friendly for women policies. I 161 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: mean you mentioned that when she was Education Secretary before 162 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: she assumed the role as Prime Minister, she cut off 163 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: the free Milk for school Kids program. And when she 164 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: stepped into office as Prime Minister, she was trying to 165 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: dig Britain out of a massive economic decline, and as 166 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: part of that she enforced widespread privatization of businesses, and 167 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: with that she froze childcare benefits and also didn't invest 168 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: in affordable childcare. She was not about expanding government. She 169 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: wanted to limit the size of that, and with that 170 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: ended up cutting a lot of benefits that we typically 171 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: associate as being more women friendly. And I think it's interesting, 172 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: you know, people comment on her decisiveness and how they 173 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: admire her for that, but it's interesting to read her 174 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: comments that reflect that decisiveness because they do reflect a 175 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: certain sense of like, oh god, I'm a woman, let 176 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: me just do it. You know, men are all about talk. 177 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: If you want anything done, ask a woman. But you know, 178 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: some people are like, well, you know, there's this debate, 179 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: is she a feminist? And oh god, she hated that term, 180 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: and she did not like feminists and they did not 181 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: like her. But she did set this precedent. She did 182 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: chart a course, but she just it wasn't her priority 183 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: to help other women while she did it. For instance, Uh, 184 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, one of her famous comments is that some 185 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: of us were making it long before Women's lib was 186 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: ever thought of. That kind of hearkens back to, you know, 187 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: the waves she made at Oxford. In in the Sciences, 188 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: Wendy Webster, a professor at the University of Huddersfield, said 189 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: that Thatcher didn't see her career as having grown out 190 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: of any kind of movement. She saw herself as a 191 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: unique individual who had made it through her own talent 192 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: and her own determination. And Charles Moore, Thatcher's official biographer, 193 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: echoes this by saying, yeah, she benefited from the emancipation 194 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: of women without showing the slightest interest in it. And 195 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: on the one hand, I don't see any problem with 196 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: her seeing herself as, you know, a person who worked 197 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: really hard to get where she was, not as being 198 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: the product of a movement, you know. But at the 199 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: same time, it's like, when you have that much power, 200 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: it is disappointed to learn that, for instance, she appointed 201 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: only one woman to her cabinet and openly preferred to 202 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: have men around her. Now that might have had to 203 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: do with the fact that at the time women only 204 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: comprised three percent of British lawmakers. That number has since 205 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: gone up, perhaps because of the example of seeing a 206 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: female Prime minister, but nevertheless she did absolutely nothing to 207 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: uh invigorate women's involvement in British politics. Yeah. That one 208 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: woman that Thatcher pointed to her cabinet who has the 209 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: most British name. She is Baroness Trumpington. Uh. She says 210 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: that she treated women like rather unnecessary second class citizens. Yeah. 211 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: There was also a great anecdote in again in that 212 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair profile talking about how Thatcher was known for 213 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: having a wrestler's grip of a handshake, particularly with other women. 214 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: She just seemed to have open disdain for them, and 215 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: as a result, during the nineteen seventy nine election, one 216 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: UK feminist slogan was we want women's rights, not a 217 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: right wing woman. So a bit of a challenging relationship there. 218 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: But I think though that within the broader context of 219 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: this question of whether or not female politicians are good 220 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: or better for women, Thatcher's legacy is such a perfect 221 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: platform too to consider that, because even though more politically 222 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: liberal people will say that she was did horrible things 223 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: to the UK, and her policies, you know, have had 224 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: negative long term effects. You still can't deny that she 225 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: was an effective politician in terms of getting things done. 226 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: I mean she did stay in power for eleven and 227 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: a half years. And the fact that you know, the 228 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: quote that she has from two about how if you 229 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: want anything done, ask a woman speaks to what a 230 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: lot of studies find about women in political power, which 231 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: is that that is very true. If you do want 232 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: something done, you do get a woman because we have 233 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: to do it because the bar is raised higher for 234 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: us to even get into the political playing right. It's 235 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: exactly what we talked about in our Women Coaches episode, 236 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: where you have to be pat summit to even be 237 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: considered an okay women's coach, So that bar is just 238 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: so much higher. And this was talked about in an 239 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: American Journal of Political Science study in twenty eleven. They 240 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: talked about this so called Jackie and Jill Robinson effect 241 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: that basically, yeah, women politicians have to work so much 242 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: harder than men due to this expectation that they're not 243 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: as good, or they're not as capable, or they're not 244 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: as smart. And just to give a little context of 245 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: women in politics today. Right now, we hold a record 246 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: twenty percent of parliamentary seats around the world, and since 247 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: Thatcher's day the participation of female British politicians has gone 248 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: up from three percent to percent, so you know, a 249 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: lot of progress. Still a long way from parody and 250 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: um speaking though to that Jackie and Jill Robinson effect, 251 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: what these researchers did was look at legislation pass for 252 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: male versus female politicians from to two thousand four, and 253 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: they found that women won their home districts in average 254 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: of forty nine million dollars more per year than their 255 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,479 Speaker 1: male counter parts, and that was held regardless political party, geography, 256 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: committee position, tenure in office, or margin of victory, and 257 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: the message being we're working really hard if we win. 258 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: You know what, once we get in there, we're gonna 259 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: work hard. Yeah, it's not necessarily saying that, oh my gosh, 260 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: women are so much smarter and better politicians. Although these 261 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: women are very smart and intelligent politicians. It's more the 262 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: fact that you know, they know they have to work 263 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: so hard improve themselves that bar is higher, and so 264 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: they actually said that, hey, you know, maybe fifty years 265 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: from now, these stats won't be the same. Maybe women 266 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: will be sponsoring just as much legislation as men and 267 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: pulling in the same amount of money that they are. 268 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: And they were actually hoping for that because what that 269 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: would mean is that it's so much more common for 270 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: women to be in office that they don't have to 271 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: press so hard to prove themselves. But speaking of legislation, 272 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: they did find that female politicians were sponsoring an average 273 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: of three more bills per Congression session, they co sponsored 274 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: more bills an average of twenty six more per session, 275 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: and attracted a greater number of co sponsors. And this 276 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: is also a really fascinating um finding. They found that 277 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: women authored legislation also survived longer and was more likely 278 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: to be deemed important. Now, that's not necessarily that's women 279 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: author that is not necessarily a a women related piece 280 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: of legislation for something involving say, childcare right, and the 281 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: authors concluded that it's the women themselves, specifically their skills 282 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: at quote law rolling, agenda setting, coalition building. There's that 283 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: woman coalition building thing and other deal making activities that 284 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: are responsible for the gender performance divide. So perhaps women 285 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: are not only driven to prove themselves, but driven to 286 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: reach across the aisle to get things done. I mean 287 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: and thinking about it too. I know that we've talked 288 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: about this before on the podcast, but imagine though, being 289 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: a female politician in you are you know, you're getting 290 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: into the game when you most likely are married and 291 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: you have kids, and you're already juggling all of that, 292 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: and you managed to do all of that while campaigning 293 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: and fundraising and everything that goes into it. Of course, 294 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: by the time you get into office, you probably have 295 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: some incredible time management skill, you know. Um. But looking 296 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: outside of the US, UH, studies have found over and 297 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: over again that women do tend to have a positive 298 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: effect on governance and the relationship. Though is not so 299 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: straightforward as saying women are just magical fairies who can 300 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: come in and wave their lady dust and and everything 301 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: is right with the world. But more so that open 302 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: and honest democracies foster more women rising through the ranks 303 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: who can affect change. So it's like you, you you 304 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: have a healthier system. The healthier system attracts more women, 305 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: and more women do bring more change for you know, 306 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: broader part of the population. Yeah. This Reuter's story in 307 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: December twelve points out that there's a prevailing attitude the 308 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: world over that women are less corrupt, and if they're 309 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 1: in government or in the police force, for instance, they 310 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: will make it less corrupt. But it's more like christ 311 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: And said that women are more likely to achieve these 312 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: positions of power in the first place in those open 313 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: and democratic political systems, which are generally more intolerant of wrongdoing. 314 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: And they cite examples from Perue, Nicaragua, Iran, Indonesia, and 315 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: India on that correlation, and Perue, for instance, the perception 316 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: of police corruption plummeted after female officers started patrolling the streets. 317 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: So even just having women in uniform walking around gave 318 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: people the idea that things are getting better, and that 319 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: also echoes The findings of a World Bank survey, which 320 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: now this is very specific, found that for ever restandard 321 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: deviation point increase in women in public office above ten 322 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: point nine percent, corruption declines by ten So that's a 323 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: that's a very strong relationship, which is some more women 324 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: you get in there, the more corruption tends to diminish. 325 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: And Nicholas Kristoff, writing in The New York Times, reported 326 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: on findings from an m I T economist esther do 327 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: Flow who found that female village counselors in India objectively 328 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: ran the village is better and took fewer bribes. But 329 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: speaking to kind of a prevailing prejudice against women in politics, 330 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: they weren't reelected often because people just assumed that because 331 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: there are female leaders, they weren't doing as good of 332 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: a job. Um. So it's you know that, even you know, 333 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: in an Indian village setting, that still points to how 334 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: just in the remotest parts of the world we still 335 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: have often a prejudice us against women leaders. Yeah, there 336 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: was a twenty twelve World Bank report that there's been 337 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: a lot of focus on India because of women's specific 338 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: types of involvement in government and what comes out of that. 339 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: And so the report credited India's policy of reserving of 340 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: seats on village councils for women with increasing the provision 341 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: of clean water, sanitation, schools, and other public goods in villages, 342 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: and with lower corruption in general. Yeah, And India is 343 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: one of the nations that typically enforces gender quotas for 344 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: the having to have a specific number of women representatives 345 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: in politics, and a number of other countries are also 346 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: starting to enforce these kinds of quotas. And we did 347 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: a podcast way back when looking into that um quota issue, 348 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: because the thinking does go that usually you do have 349 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: better results overall when you have more women in government. 350 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: But let's narrow it down even more to look at 351 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: women's effects on women essentially, like, if you or I 352 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: becomes elected to office, oh goodness, miraculously, I haven't even 353 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: started my campaign. I know, well, guess what you won already? 354 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: Does that? Me and Caroline know that you're gonna walk 355 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: in there with a legislative agenda that is pro woman 356 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: up and down. No, not necessarily, but there is um 357 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: this view from a lot of politicians that female politicians 358 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: that we do need to strike out and help women. Um. 359 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: This is called surrogate representation, introducing so called women's issues 360 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:41,239 Speaker 1: bills regardless of relevance to your home district. Yeah, and 361 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: that's because only two percent of quote unquote women's bills 362 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: make it through the legislative process. So there's an imperative 363 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: for a critical mass of female politicians to rally behind that. 364 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: And usually that critical mass is reached at around which 365 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: we are getting to. But still, only come on, we 366 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: can do better than that Now, going back to India 367 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: and talking about women helping women, specifically, Esther Dufflo, who 368 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: we mentioned a second ago UM did a study of 369 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: those effects of putting women in government and how they 370 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: spent money, what they invested in and in her September 371 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: two one report, she found that, like we just said, 372 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: women invested more in infrastructure there was directly relevant to 373 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: the needs of rural women, like water, fuel, and roads, 374 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: while men invested more in education. And you might think, well, 375 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: that sounds like it goes against stereotypes and what people 376 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: tend to think. But when you think about it, when 377 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: you're building all these wells for people to have clean water, 378 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: there tends to be less money for schools. So I mean, 379 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: I guess the answer then to the question, just broadly speaking, 380 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: is that, yes, when you do engage more women in politics, 381 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: the results are usually more positive for women. Because it's 382 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: not that to say that male politicians are anti women, 383 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, just by virtue of being men, but simply 384 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: because you might you know, they might not think about 385 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: certain issues, that the certain issues might not be quite 386 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: as as relevant to them. And you know, by the 387 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: same extent, studies have found, especially in developing nations that 388 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: when you enforce policies that help out women, it is 389 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: so good for those smaller and poorer villages and nations 390 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: as a whole. Um. But what happens though, when you're 391 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: in more of a Thatcher situation where you do have 392 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: leaders who might not align with typically pro women policies, 393 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: And I mean, and this does get into dicere political 394 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: territory that we don't like to tread into too much 395 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: in the podcast, because a lot of times now, unfortunately 396 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: in the United States, you do have a red blue 397 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: divide often where you know, for it seems like a 398 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: lot of your more liberal politicians tend to be strong 399 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: ger on pro women platforms, and then conservative politicians are 400 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: often labeled as maybe not so women friendly. But in 401 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: recent years in the United States, we have seen the 402 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: rise of powerful female conservative politicians such as a Sarah Palent, 403 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: a Michelle Bachman um who have you know, risen to 404 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: the national spotlight. And I think it has left some 405 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: more liberal minded women like wondering what what to think 406 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: about well, and Freedman over at the cut from New 407 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: York Magazine doesn't necessarily think that this rise in uh 408 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: conservative female political leaders is a bad thing, because she 409 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: says true gender parity inequality is something that only a 410 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: critical mass of women can deliver. And if we want 411 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: a critical massive women represented in all corners of society, 412 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: we need to acknowledge that women are not politically united, 413 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: which means we're going to have to applaud the advancement 414 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: of women of all ideologies. Yes, even those who support 415 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: policies that may or cut women. Yeah, because I do 416 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: think that it is important to keep in mind that 417 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: while you know, I might have, for instance, my set 418 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: of political beliefs what I you know, want to see 419 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: out of a government, but I think that it would 420 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: be wrong to demand that a woman in politics has 421 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: to align completely with what I think. Well, Rebecca Tracer 422 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: wrote that, you know, women leaders aren't all feminist. Here is, 423 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: they're not out necessarily to just because they're women pass bills, 424 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: introduced bills that are exactly in line with what we 425 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: necessarily think. It could kind of be said of Margaret Thatcher. 426 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: You know, Tracer, what Tracers saying could be said of 427 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: Margaret Thatcher. You know that these are women that are 428 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: entering a male dominated field, and that in and of 429 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: itself is a good thing, right, and that's why I 430 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: think the ultimate answer to the question of whether women 431 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: in politics are good for women, the answer is yes, 432 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: Because even if the policy decisions that they make don't 433 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: necessarily align with you know, women quote unquote women friendly policies, 434 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: even if they might be more conservative or more liberal 435 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: than we're comfortable with, even if, like Margaret Thatcher, they 436 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: have really not much interest in directly giving other women 437 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: a hand up, they might be ultimately good for women 438 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: simply by providing that kind of visibility that is so needed. Yeah, 439 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: because that deaf less study I talked about her two 440 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: thousand one report, she did find and this is just 441 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: an India, but I think it could apply to a 442 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: lot of governments that women were more likely to participate 443 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,719 Speaker 1: in the policy making process of their village if the 444 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: leader of the council was a woman. And I think 445 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: you can expand that to Western societies as well. The 446 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: more common it is to see women in positions of power, 447 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: the less likely you are to think, well, that's strange. 448 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: I don't trust the way she might govern. Yeah, and um, 449 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: there was a two thousand and twelve thesis that we 450 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: found written by Aerial Cats and she looked at Margaret Thatcher, 451 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: Goldemir and in Dear Gandhi's actions and a rhetoric regarding 452 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: feminism and gender during their assent to power. And she 453 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: concluded that, you know, none of these leaders obviously identified 454 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: openly as feminists, and they did not actively focus on 455 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: women's issues or elevate the status of women while in office. 456 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: Yet all of the leaders called on women to mobilize 457 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: and pursue careers, and they explicitly encourage women to mobilize 458 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: his voters and pursue work outside their homes. So that's 459 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: why I do think there's you know, always want to 460 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: be a nugget of positivity when you do have women 461 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: as leaders, because if only for the fact that we 462 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: need to just see more of that. Yeah, So, you know, 463 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: calling themselves feminist or not, women political leaders are still 464 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: a great thing something that we are desperately lacking. And 465 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: I think that Meryl Street, who played Margaret Thatcher in 466 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: the film Iron Lady, summed it up so well when 467 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: she she was talking about Thatcher and she said, to 468 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: have given women and girls around the world reason to 469 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: supplant fantasies of being princesses with a different dream. The 470 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: real life option of leading their nations. This was groundbreaking 471 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: and admirable and I feel like that really sums a 472 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: lot of this up. So while you know, politically the 473 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: political legacy of Margaret Thatcher is uh, like I said, contentious, 474 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: perhaps when um, you know, you look at her mark 475 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: as a groundbreaking female politician, you have to take a 476 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: maybe a broader view of it. So having said all that, 477 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: I think it's time that we hear from our listeners 478 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: about their idea us about this. Not only what they 479 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: think about Margaret Thatcher or don't think about Margaret Thatcher, 480 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: but but what are your opinions of of female political leaders? 481 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: You know, do we need more? Are they better leaders? 482 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: Do you want to run for office somebody? Yeah, I 483 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: would love to hear from any aspiring politicians out there, 484 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: male or female. You know, I just kind of what 485 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: what the feet on the street thinks about all of this. 486 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: You can email us at mom Stuff at Discovery dot com, 487 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff Podcasts, or send us a 488 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: Facebook message and we're gonna take a little break and 489 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: when we come back, we will read some of those 490 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: messages about stuffed animals. And now back to our letters first, 491 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: and I have one here from stand subjectline teddy Bears. 492 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: Very specific, he said, I just finished listening to your 493 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: recent podcast on Teddy Bears, and it prompted me to 494 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: write to you. I can remember as a little boy 495 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: having two special stuffed animals, Arrow, a stuffed dog I 496 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: had from when I was a baby whose fate remains 497 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: unknown to the stay, and a bear named Kogi, who 498 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: I was told that I needed to give up when 499 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: I was around ten years old. I now have a 500 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: young daughter who has a fascination with giraffes, including her 501 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: favorite stuffed animal, which is a green giraffe. I've had 502 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: so much worry about the possibility losing this giraffe that 503 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: I actually went searching a few years back and bought 504 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: a backup of the giraffe, and I put it in 505 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: my safe deposit box. I know this is nutty, but 506 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: I feel it is just like any other kind of 507 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: insurance policy. Thanks for a great show. That's so funny. 508 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: It's safe deposit box. That giraffe is safe. Yes. Well, 509 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: I've got one here from Jan and he had a 510 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: stuffed duck as I did as well. Um, but he 511 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: had also a comment about names. He said, the other 512 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to comment on is gendered names for 513 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: stepped animals? While you wouldn't notice this in English, I 514 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: believe an important factor in naming an animal might be 515 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: its grammatical gender. In my native language Slovenian, a duck, 516 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: for example, is female, while a bear is male. Of course, 517 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: the opposite gender word exists, like lion lion s pair 518 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: in English, but it is used much less often or 519 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: only when you want to exactly specify the sex of 520 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: the animal. Therefore, it might be a more natural thing 521 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: to give a duck a female name and a bear 522 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: a male name, or maybe children don't really care about that. 523 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: It would be really interesting to know more about this, 524 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: and I agree. Are there any academics who want to 525 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: study the gender names of stuffed animals? Please help us 526 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: some real highbrow research out there. Thanks everyone though who 527 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: has written in about stuffed animals. The stories have been delightful. 528 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: Keep them coming. Mom stuff at discovery dot com. 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