Speaker 1: You know, it really bothers me that using the proper
Speaker 1: command of the King's language is only associated with educated
Speaker 1: white people. That really bothers.
Speaker 2: Me, I know, because for me, it's like, if there's
Speaker 2: a time and place for everything, is it really codeswitch.
Speaker 1: Dead ass? It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest
Speaker 1: and straight from the heart. Since then, we've gone on
Speaker 1: to become Webby award winning podcasters in New York Times
Speaker 1: bestselling authors.
Speaker 2: That ass was more than a podcast for us. It
Speaker 2: was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Be wraw or but most apportly be us.
Speaker 2: But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we,
Speaker 2: and through it all, one thing has never changed.
Speaker 3: This is.
Speaker 2: Because we got a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1: Sorry time, I'm gonna take y'all back to August two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten, the month, yes, August t ten. The
Speaker 1: reason why I remember is because I had just come
Speaker 1: back from Oh matter of fact, it was August two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, and I had just got cut from
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns. I had went back to Hastra for
Speaker 1: I went back to visit just to see how football
Speaker 1: was going during the summertime, and I ran into what's
Speaker 1: his name that worked for NBA TV, Jared Greenberg I
Speaker 1: worked in. I walked into Jared Greenburg and Jared was
Speaker 1: just like, hey, Davao, are you interested in doing TV?
Speaker 1: I know you used to do radio for me. You
Speaker 1: talk a lot, You're a funny guy. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in doing some television. At the time, he
Speaker 1: had no clue that I wanted to get into TV film,
Speaker 1: so I saw this as an opportunity. So he was like, hey,
Speaker 1: they have a job as a sideline reporter for MSG
Speaker 1: varsity if you're interested. So I was like bet. He
Speaker 1: took me into the office. We did a sideline, a report,
Speaker 1: a video on a green screen. He pitched it to
Speaker 1: his people, but they were just like, oh, we loved Viowe.
Speaker 1: They hired me. Boom. So now I have a job
Speaker 1: as a signline reporter for high school football for Brooklyn
Speaker 1: Long Island Stotton Island. And I did my first game.
Speaker 1: I remember my first game. It was Erasmus Verse Lincoln
Speaker 1: back Home and back Home, and I remember it coming
Speaker 1: on TV and you sat there and you watched it.
Speaker 1: I did, and you smirked, and I was like, what
Speaker 1: do you think? And you was like terrible, And I
Speaker 1: was like what and you was just like, you took
Speaker 1: four years of voice addiction classes.
Speaker 2: Well that was part of the four part.
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, but we had to take voice every year.
Speaker 1: And you were like, why the hell do you sound
Speaker 1: so Brooklyn? And I was just like, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize. I just wanted to give my personality
Speaker 1: give a little. And he was like, no, that's not
Speaker 1: how this works. Someone comes to the number one rule
Speaker 1: you said to being a reporter or news don't become
Speaker 1: the story, so you can't input yourself in the story.
Speaker 1: And you had me practice on changing my dialect to
Speaker 1: say the end of my words and not you so
Speaker 1: much slang. And you know what that job ended up. Well,
Speaker 1: we know what that ended up happening. Tell them I
Speaker 1: ended up getting in studio analyst job.
Speaker 2: Sure did. And he was sitting there with the anchors
Speaker 2: and reporting and doing such a great job. I remember
Speaker 2: watching it when you finally hit the desk and I
Speaker 2: was just like, dang, like he really just took that time.
Speaker 2: And you didn't get offended. You were like no, you
Speaker 2: were just like, yo, help me get better, help me learn,
Speaker 2: And you know what that did that freed up a
Speaker 2: spot for you girls, and I ended up on the sideline.
Speaker 1: While I was in studio analyst and doing I once
Speaker 1: do all alone, y'all.
Speaker 2: That was the plan all along. Now, who knew that
Speaker 2: was going to happen, but it was great that it did.
Speaker 2: And we had a couple of games that we would
Speaker 2: go into work together. So we've been working together a
Speaker 2: long time. We have had several jobs together and several
Speaker 2: jobs separately. But that's crazy. It just made me think
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: I gotta go back on my Instagram. There are pictures
Speaker 1: of us at the same games at Hofstra where you
Speaker 1: did sideline reporting and I did on in studio analysts
Speaker 1: and Playboy player.
Speaker 2: Absolutely and see. The funny thing at the time was
Speaker 2: I didn't really understand some of like the technicalities behind
Speaker 2: the sport. So I would have to like call you
Speaker 2: sometimes to be like, all right, babe, what just happened?
Speaker 2: Which coach I got to interview?
Speaker 3: I ask?
Speaker 1: I would like, grab grab that coach, Grab the Uniondale coach,
Speaker 1: day up, grab the Farmingdale coach they lose, and leave
Speaker 1: them alone.
Speaker 2: Because sports reporting is a different kind of reporting, you
Speaker 2: have to have some sort of you know, understanding of
Speaker 2: the game. So I was learning as I went. But
Speaker 2: we did. We did mad things together. Bro dap me up.
Speaker 1: Karaoke. This song seems to fit perfectly. I don't know
Speaker 1: the whole song, Okay, I only know the beginning of
Speaker 1: the song of my favorite TV shows.
Speaker 2: Tell me what we got.
Speaker 1: Since we're talking about code switching, I think it only
Speaker 1: makes sense that we go here, Okay, then then then
Speaker 1: then then.
Speaker 4: It's not on You use your walk to me, it's
Speaker 4: not unusual. Walk to something else, and when.
Speaker 2: I see you out, it's not on usual.
Speaker 1: Shout out to my man, Carlton Banks bro Right.
Speaker 2: The original code switcher, I mean didn't even really switch.
Speaker 2: I think he was stuck.
Speaker 1: He was stuck. He didn't co switch. But there was
Speaker 1: an episode where they went to l A to go
Speaker 1: to Magarthur Park. Yes, and he cold switched to be
Speaker 1: with the homies. Yes, and then they liked him more
Speaker 1: than they like Will and will ain't like it. Remember
Speaker 1: that's that's a very important episode. Especially in the nineties
Speaker 1: we're dealing with cold switching. They were calling Carlton a sellout.
Speaker 1: It's important that we talk about this today because we
Speaker 1: want to talk about cold switching a little bit.
Speaker 2: Sounds good, bro. I guess we should go pay some
Speaker 2: bills and come back and we'll get into the meat
Speaker 2: of the show. Stick around, y'all.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, We're back.
Speaker 2: It's time for Vow's favorite part of the show.
Speaker 1: Yes or no?
Speaker 5: Op?
Speaker 2: All right, what we got today?
Speaker 6: Charibel Well In the news in April, it was announced
Speaker 6: that the Academy, the Academy, the Oscars, folks, they are
Speaker 6: now requiring Academy voters to watch the films before they
Speaker 6: vote for them.
Speaker 2: The keyword that Trippi said, y'all, now, yeah, they are now,
Speaker 2: So you mean to tell me this whole time, people
Speaker 2: weren't watching all the films.
Speaker 6: After one hundred years, they did not require them to
Speaker 6: watch the films. They said, they were basing it on
Speaker 6: the honor system. Of course, if you're in the Academy,
Speaker 6: you're a voter, you want to.
Speaker 5: Watch the films. But I think that some of the people.
Speaker 6: A lot of the people in the Academy were maybe
Speaker 6: too busy making films or making money off of films
Speaker 6: to watch the films.
Speaker 2: So if you're making films, investing in films, and then
Speaker 2: you're now voting on films. So they were voting off
Speaker 2: of vibes. Yeah, vibe forever their money. That's insanity.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what I think.
Speaker 6: Conan O'Brien said that, he was like voting, we vote
Speaker 6: our vibes in this country, so we.
Speaker 1: Don't in this country. That's an absolute fact. Not just listen.
Speaker 1: I have a quick opinion about it. We have to
Speaker 1: be more careful with who we give our standard of excellence,
Speaker 1: right because we provided them with the standard of excellence,
Speaker 1: saying that we all want to aspire to be that,
Speaker 1: only to find out that they didn't give a ship. Really,
Speaker 1: they were just voting off vibes. So it's like this
Speaker 1: whole time, for one hundred years, we said this was
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of excellence. Come to find out that they
Speaker 1: didn't even treat it as the pinnacle of excellence. But
Speaker 1: that speaks more to us. Why do we always say
Speaker 1: that their version of excellence.
Speaker 2: Is what we aspire to?
Speaker 1: So now they know because now for a hundred years,
Speaker 1: I got to look back at all of these films
Speaker 1: and be like, was that really the best film of
Speaker 1: the year? You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: A lot of time was.
Speaker 1: The Golden statue has lost in a lot of his gold.
Speaker 3: Now that was.
Speaker 1: Bronze to me.
Speaker 3: You just watching when somebody else.
Speaker 1: Likes Yeah, it's just it's it kind of lost it
Speaker 1: for me. That's my opinion is that I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, not, and not only just for black creatives,
Speaker 1: for everyone. First of all, the people who vote as
Speaker 1: like ninety eight percent white, so automatically you know they're
Speaker 1: not watching many films of color. Let's just be honest.
Speaker 1: So how do you vote for a film that you
Speaker 1: don't even watch? You just look at and say, you
Speaker 1: know what, Meryl Street was in this, I'll go it's solid.
Speaker 1: Daniel day Lewis was in that one. Yeah, let me
Speaker 1: Tom Hanks here, let me throw that there.
Speaker 7: Well, my theory that should work. But Steven Spielberg directed
Speaker 7: Color Purple, nominated eleven times and then win.
Speaker 1: Once because it was called The Color I know.
Speaker 7: That said what I'm saying, My theory, it should work
Speaker 7: by you seeing Stephen Stephen, Steven Spielberg's name, true, you check,
Speaker 7: oh yeah, oh that movie.
Speaker 1: Nah, So at least they read. They might not have
Speaker 1: watched the movie, but they read the synopsis, and then
Speaker 1: that was when they chose.
Speaker 2: My opinion is that it's fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 7: Opinion is.
Speaker 3: Like that, I got an opinion, and I like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 3: I can't catch on camera next time. My opinion is,
Speaker 3: here's the thing, right, we got doctors who prescribe prescriptions
Speaker 3: for us all the time. Can you imagine if they
Speaker 3: prescribe those prescriptions without even looking at our symptoms or whatever.
Speaker 3: This is equivalent to that just picking stuff just based
Speaker 3: off of I feel like this today, and I like
Speaker 3: this today, so I'm gonna just do this what I
Speaker 3: feel like.
Speaker 7: They might do that already, that the whole medical market.
Speaker 2: What it needs to be pushed. What's that new drug?
Speaker 3: A Keademy Wars of the United States pretty much?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I got you. I mean, it's it's everything.
Speaker 2: They have a gold step.
Speaker 1: We talked about this Withers like, how do they choose
Speaker 1: who gets picked in the draft? When we talked about
Speaker 1: what Shador Sanders like, what was the criteria? We don't know.
Speaker 1: They moved the goalpost every time every year.
Speaker 3: So, I mean the draft is a little bit different
Speaker 3: because you're picking based off your personal needs as a team,
Speaker 3: like your team needs I do a bit different.
Speaker 1: It is a little bit different. It is a little
Speaker 1: bit different, but I will say this, you are drafting
Speaker 1: with a purpose and also to send a message, and
Speaker 1: you can also not draft or draft somebody to send
Speaker 1: a message.
Speaker 3: True, So I.
Speaker 1: Think it's it's kind of symbol.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I like what you said about our standard of
Speaker 6: excellence being compared to somebody else.
Speaker 5: We're talking about code switching today.
Speaker 6: And for me that brought up this. The biggest movie
Speaker 6: right now is Sinners. Ryan Coogler one of the best directors.
Speaker 5: I think.
Speaker 6: When I went to see Wakinda forever, I made a
Speaker 6: video saying that somebody needs to give Ryan some pussy
Speaker 6: today and every day.
Speaker 5: Was so good because he's.
Speaker 6: It was amazing and I hope that he's getting some
Speaker 6: pussy after Centners came out, because it opened with forty
Speaker 6: eight million dollars, it only dropped six percent in the
Speaker 6: second weekend, which is a low drive for a horror film.
Speaker 6: But before the movie came out, there was a video
Speaker 6: of Ryan that was circulating online where he was talking
Speaker 6: about all the viewing options for the film. So it's
Speaker 6: the first horror film to be filmed simultaneously in imax
Speaker 6: and seventy millimeter and so there's like seven different viewing options,
Speaker 6: and he was talking about all of these technical aspects
Speaker 6: of film. But he talking like a nigga from Oakland,
Speaker 6: you know. He like, first of all, I won't charge
Speaker 6: she what was happening? Like, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 6: do you know how California dudes talk? Which, to me,
Speaker 6: that was amazing to see a black man talking like
Speaker 6: a black man talking about something that a lot of
Speaker 6: people don't think black men can do.
Speaker 5: Yes, so I want to know, do you have no eye?
Speaker 1: Man? That's a good one. The only thing I say,
Speaker 1: the only issue I have is the fact that, like
Speaker 1: you said, a black man speaking like a black man,
Speaker 1: like black men are not monolithic. And the only way
Speaker 1: I hate the fact that people relate blackness to where
Speaker 1: they grew up, which means like, for example, he grew
Speaker 1: up in the hood, so it's like your blackness is
Speaker 1: only to the hood, like I'm from Brooklyn, which means
Speaker 1: that the minute I stopped talking like I was from
Speaker 1: Flatbush and I stopped talking gutter, I lost my blackness
Speaker 1: a little bit. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: I'll push back on that.
Speaker 6: I think that there is a such thing as a
Speaker 6: black vernacular wherever you're from. White people from Brooklyn don't
Speaker 6: sound like you. So it's not that all black people
Speaker 6: talk this way. Is that nobody else speaks that way?
Speaker 1: I disagree because I wanted to ask what was what's
Speaker 1: black vernacular?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know, but I know that slang that's
Speaker 7: used in New York. I know how your accent. It
Speaker 7: doesn't matter your skin or what. I know. White people are,
Speaker 7: Italian people know every culture that can sound like a
Speaker 7: real New Yorker from the hood, no matter what you
Speaker 7: look like.
Speaker 6: I think New York has an accent people white people
Speaker 6: from New York have an accent, but it still does
Speaker 6: not sound the same I hear.
Speaker 2: And I'm a West Indian from New York, so sometimes
Speaker 2: I sound like mosh pit of things.
Speaker 1: I just think it's I think it's problematic when you
Speaker 1: say someone don't sound black, because then it's like, if
Speaker 1: I'm black and I speak how I speak, you're telling
Speaker 1: me I don't speak how I look because I don't
Speaker 1: sound like the rest of y'all's. That's projecting that I
Speaker 1: have to sound like y'all in order to own my blackness.
Speaker 1: That's the only thing I push you back on. It's
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't say he sounds black. I would say
Speaker 1: he sounds like he's from Oakland and he was born
Speaker 1: and he's from that area. But have to say he
Speaker 1: sounds black. I think that to me is I think.
Speaker 2: There can still be an eloquence around speaking like where
Speaker 2: you're from, like people can still understand you. So my
Speaker 2: thing with Ryan is like I think he's super brilliant.
Speaker 2: I think that he has amazing knowledge about this stuff,
Speaker 2: and I'm listening to him talk about all these different films,
Speaker 2: but it's sometimes just hard to understand what. I never
Speaker 2: thought like, oh, this black man can't speak well. It
Speaker 2: was more like I don't understand where he comes from.
Speaker 2: That accent, you know, I wait it to.
Speaker 1: Ed.
Speaker 2: It just sounds like where he's from.
Speaker 1: He's just he's not eloquent, right, right, like like certain
Speaker 1: people are eloquent. For example, you listen to Barack Obama speak,
Speaker 1: and you can just listen to him speak because the
Speaker 1: way he speaks, the way he puts words together, he
Speaker 1: doesn't stutter, he doesn't have long gaps in between right,
Speaker 1: and he speaks well. We study oratory. There's a way
Speaker 1: you are told to speak in oratory classes in order
Speaker 1: to captivate.
Speaker 2: It like a cadence about how you speak. Jay Z,
Speaker 2: for example, jay Z speaks eloquently I think, but he's
Speaker 2: from Brooklyn and I can tell he's from Brooklyn, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So it doesn't necessarily equates to you.
Speaker 2: That's a good point education versus where you're coming from.
Speaker 2: It's just like Brian. Sometimes it be like Ryan, I
Speaker 2: want to like he didn't want his back by Ryan,
Speaker 2: get it out, broke, get it out. I can't get
Speaker 2: to the point.
Speaker 1: You know, who's the other film making us from Oakland?
Speaker 1: Who is Oh my gosh, I I don't know why
Speaker 1: it's escaping me. But my point is that everybody from
Speaker 1: Oakland doesn't speak like Ryan Coogler. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like everybody from Brooklyn don't speak like Daval you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I just don't want to put
Speaker 1: that on all black men, that if you get on
Speaker 1: camera you have to sound like where I'm from, or
Speaker 1: else you lose your blackness. That's my that's just my
Speaker 1: only here's.
Speaker 6: My pushback to that. You know Tom Hanks's son, Chad Hanks.
Speaker 6: Have you heard him do his Jamaican accent.
Speaker 1: And what would you say, he sounds Jamaican. Okay, you
Speaker 1: don't sound black, but Jamaican's are white too and Asian.
Speaker 5: But he's not Jamaican.
Speaker 1: That's a poor example though, But you said he sounds Jamaican.
Speaker 6: What about you've heard the rapper g Eazy, No, you
Speaker 6: know the other white rapper, what's his name?
Speaker 5: The curly hair guy.
Speaker 6: If a white person came up to you and they
Speaker 6: started talking to you like you speak, well, you wouldn't
Speaker 6: say anything.
Speaker 5: You'd be like, why are you you talking black?
Speaker 1: Like that's no, this is my thing. I think that
Speaker 1: that's often a projecting from projection from people. I never
Speaker 1: like to put on people that you sound black or
Speaker 1: you sound white, because I hated feeling like growing up
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. When I started to go to different schools,
Speaker 1: they would say, you sound like a white boy. So
Speaker 1: part of part of me pushing back on that is
Speaker 1: also my own personal experiences, like you can't tell me
Speaker 1: I sound like a white boy because I don't sound
Speaker 1: like you. I'm black and I'm from Brooklyn. I sound
Speaker 1: how I sound. So my version of blackness sounds like this,
Speaker 1: and I just don't want everybody to put that on him, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he sound black. It's like, no, he sounds like Ryan.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. There are black people from
Speaker 1: Oakland who don't sound like Ryan Coogler, and what we're
Speaker 1: gonna say about them they don't sound black. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I just don't. I want to push back on that, Ilack.
Speaker 1: This cannot be associated with one sound.
Speaker 3: I would agree with you, but Ryan sounds black.
Speaker 6: Bro Right, if he called you on the phone, you
Speaker 6: would be like, this is a black man on the phone.
Speaker 5: We know what sounding black means.
Speaker 7: You would as soon as a point.
Speaker 6: We don't think that everybody, every black person has to
Speaker 6: sound a certain way, but we absolute know that sounding
Speaker 6: black is a thing and we know what it means.
Speaker 1: Once again though, once again though, right, we're talking about
Speaker 1: our experience. You put Ryan Cooler on the phone with
Speaker 1: a white person from Indonesia, He's not gonna say that
Speaker 1: person sounds black. He's not even gonna know what they're saying.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Everything we know comes from our perspective.
Speaker 1: So we know that he sounds black because we've heard
Speaker 1: black people around us, other people around the world, haven't
Speaker 1: heard all people from Oakland speak, so they wouldn't say
Speaker 1: automatically that he sounds black. We say it because we're
Speaker 1: black in America. I don't want to put that on
Speaker 1: black people. You see what I'm saying, What what does
Speaker 1: an Indian person from Slakavanya sound like? What? Exactly? That's
Speaker 1: my point?
Speaker 3: What person can only be from India?
Speaker 2: But within this country there's dialects.
Speaker 1: This is what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: Does anybody there is a such thing as a black dialect?
Speaker 6: That's what I'm saying, Like we to us.
Speaker 7: But everybody going back to your Jamaica example, there's some
Speaker 7: white Jamaicans and even understand more than some countries. Amaicans.
Speaker 7: I know I grew up and to.
Speaker 5: Make it's not a good example. That's not a good example.
Speaker 2: There's some white people that we know from Brooklyn that
Speaker 2: sound I know what you mean, trouble that sounds like
Speaker 2: black people. For example black Brooklyn. There's a young man
Speaker 2: that lives on your black he married the girl friends.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm talking about. He if I were
Speaker 2: to see seeing him coming to pross me and then yes,
Speaker 2: and then that's what we would say. He sounds like.
Speaker 6: What I'm saying, is that's a problem, not a problem
Speaker 6: if we own the fact that black culture is a thing.
Speaker 6: Black is also a thing that comes out of black culture.
Speaker 6: For instance, Chicago. Black people in Chicago have a very
Speaker 6: specific accent, and it is due to the culture of
Speaker 6: the Great Migration. A lot of black people in Chicago,
Speaker 6: their grandparents came from Mississippi and Alabama during the Great Migration,
Speaker 6: and so their accent is influenced by the Southern accent.
Speaker 6: So they sound different than white Chicagoans who have been
Speaker 6: living in the Midwest for a while or came from
Speaker 6: different parts of the country. That is a part of
Speaker 6: the culture. Black vernacular comes out of the culture. It's
Speaker 6: not a problem I think that other people if you
Speaker 6: grow up in black culture, for.
Speaker 1: You that an opera. I'm saying that it's a problem
Speaker 1: for me that we are saying that this person sounds
Speaker 1: like a color, Like that's the problem for me, it's
Speaker 1: a problem, Like I'm not saying you wrong, its opera, no,
Speaker 1: opp My point is that I don't ever want my
Speaker 1: vernacular to be associated with a color. That's because think
Speaker 1: about it, if a white person were to say you
Speaker 1: sound like a black man, what's the first thing that problem.
Speaker 1: That's a problem, right, So how come trouble gets to say.
Speaker 3: No, I don't like it when when black people say
Speaker 3: other people say, that's what I'm saying White people, I
Speaker 3: hate it, That's.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying. I think that's problematic that we we
Speaker 1: say that a person has to sound black, or say
Speaker 1: a person sounds black. That's the wildest thing ever, But
Speaker 1: it happens.
Speaker 3: People say that it is true, like people do sound
Speaker 3: like other ethnicities or other colors or whatever. You just
Speaker 3: sound that way.
Speaker 1: I feel you. What I'm saying is is that it's
Speaker 1: problematic that we say it just because we say it, like's,
Speaker 1: for example, white people are black people say nigga? Why
Speaker 1: can't we say it? Just because we say it don't
Speaker 1: mean that it's not problematic. That's my point. Calling somebody
Speaker 1: a nigga, calling someone a racial slur or a homophobic
Speaker 1: slur is a problem, right, But people say it, right,
Speaker 1: don't they say it? They do, But it's still problematic.
Speaker 1: God does that correlate with this is how it correlates.
Speaker 1: It's just because we say it doesn't mean that it's
Speaker 1: not problematic. Saying to someone like you sound black and
Speaker 1: giving someone's vernacular or color when we're saying that we
Speaker 1: don't want to be defined by our color. It's problematic
Speaker 1: for us as people. That's just my thing.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: Like, we can't say applaud Ryan Cooler for being a director,
Speaker 1: not just being a black director. Don't we say that
Speaker 1: all the time? Applaud him for being For example, he
Speaker 1: said it. When he first came out with Black Panther,
Speaker 1: they kept saying that it was the greatest black he
Speaker 1: was the highest grossing black director for that year, right.
Speaker 1: He was like, but I was also the highest grossing
Speaker 1: director for that year ever, but they kept putting black
Speaker 1: on it.
Speaker 2: Now they kept bringing up his deal and getting pressed,
Speaker 2: and they keep talking about his dealing his blackness. He
Speaker 2: pretty much was just like, I have some ideas as
Speaker 2: to why this is such a hot topic, but I'd
Speaker 2: rather not speak on it because.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to bring race. Black people bring up race.
Speaker 1: He sounds black. It's like, we want to be the
Speaker 1: only ones to be able to say, let's put his
Speaker 1: blackness on the forefront.
Speaker 2: I guess celebrate, but.
Speaker 1: This is one thing though we have. It's problematic for
Speaker 1: us to always attach it to always attach it and
Speaker 1: then try to detach it when we wanted detail. It's
Speaker 1: problematic because it creates mixed messages. We can celebrate excellence
Speaker 1: without celebrating This is why it's important that we talk
Speaker 1: about this going into code switching.
Speaker 2: Right, we're ready in the episode.
Speaker 1: Guys, think about it.
Speaker 2: Let's when I.
Speaker 1: Go into a company, right, and my excellence in that company.
Speaker 1: I don't want my excellence to be fined by my
Speaker 1: black man. I don't want them to say he was
Speaker 1: the best black CEO we ever had. I want them
Speaker 1: to say, Yo, he was the best ceo we ever had.
Speaker 1: We made the most money, we had the best growth,
Speaker 1: he treated people the best. The minutes you make it
Speaker 1: about the blackness, then it takes away from the fact
Speaker 1: that I was better than all of the white boys too.
Speaker 1: I can see that.
Speaker 2: Like even in pageantry when I used to compete, if
Speaker 2: some young lady won and she was like the first
Speaker 2: black queen to win for New York, ever, it's like
Speaker 2: highlight that, like she's the first black, and then people
Speaker 2: black other blacks. We celebrate that because it's like wow,
Speaker 2: for so long it was a string of white people winning.
Speaker 2: But the minute the black girl one, it was like
Speaker 2: it had to be celebrated. I get both sides. You
Speaker 2: want to celebrate it because it's like, this is the
Speaker 2: first time something's happening for a black person that we
Speaker 2: can be proud of. But then also it's like she
Speaker 2: was just the best girl there that year.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel you, so I feel I just
Speaker 1: it is. It is. Well, So I got a question
Speaker 1: for Trouble right because you're super pro black, like I'm
Speaker 1: pro black. If another dude came up and was having
Speaker 1: the same success as Ryan Cooler, say it was, who's
Speaker 1: another young black director right now? For us? Oh, matter
Speaker 1: of fact, Jordan Peele.
Speaker 7: I was gonna say, Arry Drienkins peel works.
Speaker 1: What if he got up and just sounded like a
Speaker 1: malleible white boy, would it take away from his success
Speaker 1: as a black director? Whoever, whoever the director was, let's
Speaker 1: not even give him a name. Let's just say, black
Speaker 1: guy from Georgia goes out and breaks all of these records,
Speaker 1: but he talks like quote unquote a white boy, he
Speaker 1: code switches. Would we then, as a black community say,
Speaker 1: now my celebrating that sellout? Would we do that?
Speaker 3: Some people do?
Speaker 1: That's why it's problematic.
Speaker 3: There we go Charles Cambino, what's his real name, Donald
Speaker 3: Donald Glover. He gets flacked because he isn't uh or
Speaker 3: he gets he doesn't get celebrated as much I think
Speaker 3: in a black community because he's dated white women. He
Speaker 3: doesn't act.
Speaker 1: Like the typical black man. That's problematic for me.
Speaker 3: I get it.
Speaker 1: That's just problematic for me.
Speaker 3: And I think he's and I think he's extremely talented
Speaker 3: in many genres, in many industries. So I get what
Speaker 3: you're saying.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I just don't want I don't
Speaker 1: want Ryan Cooler's blackness to take away from his greatness.
Speaker 1: He should be celebrated in all of it, and then
Speaker 1: we should be like yo, you know what I'm saying Now,
Speaker 1: I will say this as a brother. I felt like
Speaker 1: triple right, like yo, he up there sounding like himself.
Speaker 1: But I personally was not gonna smember when I made
Speaker 1: my post about it. I wasn't gonna think my post
Speaker 1: about him sounding like himself because I don't want to
Speaker 1: bring attention to that. I want to bring attention to
Speaker 1: his accomplishments, not his skin color. That's to me why
Speaker 1: I feel like no, But I felt like we kind
Speaker 1: of went into the coach witch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you would ask our question that she never
Speaker 2: got to answer.
Speaker 6: But I think what you said is kind of the point.
Speaker 6: You don't want your blackness to take away from your greatness.
Speaker 6: And the way that he speaks in his black vernacular
Speaker 6: as hisself not losing any part of his identity, braids
Speaker 6: in his hair. He's putting black identity at the forefront
Speaker 6: of the movies that he makes. That in turn allows
Speaker 6: his greatness and his blackness to work hand in hand.
Speaker 6: And I think that's the point of acknowledging the way
Speaker 6: that he shows up as his full self while being
Speaker 6: great in the things that he does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I agree with him showing up as
Speaker 1: his full self. I mean, y'all can have that point.
Speaker 1: That's y'all perspective. I don't got to agree with it, though,
Speaker 1: because I don't feel like I want my blackness to
Speaker 1: be always on the forefront of what I do, because
Speaker 1: if you really want to occupy space, you don't always.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing with the LGPTQ community, right. And
Speaker 1: I spoke to one of my friends who you know,
Speaker 1: and he says he gets so tired that every time
Speaker 1: he goes somewhere, they make a point to say, here's
Speaker 1: this gay man, and he's like, why can't my greatness
Speaker 1: just occupy the space in itself? That's where I'm coming
Speaker 1: from with it. Why can't my greatness just occupy my
Speaker 1: space in itself?
Speaker 2: We would like that, but that's.
Speaker 1: But how can black people keep doing it to black people?
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying is problematic. Right, if we keep
Speaker 1: doing it to us, they're always going to do it
Speaker 1: to us, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, of course
Speaker 1: we can celebrate the being the first black, but also
Speaker 1: let's just celebrate being better than everybody else. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: may have been the first black, but I also was
Speaker 1: just better than everybody else, And all those people weren't black,
Speaker 1: so it was like I was better than y'all. Like,
Speaker 1: can we celebrate that.
Speaker 2: That I was just better than y'all? That's it, that's it, Like.
Speaker 1: I was just better than like like Jesse Owens first
Speaker 1: Black Olympian to win four gold medals, and he won
Speaker 1: it during the time when Hitler was hosting the Olympics
Speaker 1: in Germany. Right, it mattered that his blackness was there,
Speaker 1: but you never heard Jesse Owens gay up and say
Speaker 1: I'm the first black. He was just like, I was
Speaker 1: better than all of them. To me, that was just dope.
Speaker 1: Like if you watch he was just like, yeah, I'm here,
Speaker 1: I'm faster than you. I jump further than you. I
Speaker 1: run faster than you, I jump higher than you. I
Speaker 1: just happened to be black. Deal with it. Like, to me,
Speaker 1: that was like the ultimate display. And when it comes
Speaker 1: to code switching, I kind of feel like I'm not
Speaker 1: a big cold switcher, but I will learn. I did
Speaker 1: learn that you get access to different people if they
Speaker 1: can understand what you're saying. For example, if I walk
Speaker 1: into a meeting with on a Warren Buffett and I'm
Speaker 1: just like, you know, you know what I'm saying, Warren,
Speaker 1: I got this idea of boom check it. Warren may
Speaker 1: be like, huh, you know, or Warren may know and understand.
Speaker 1: But for me, I'm not gonna take the chance. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go in there and give him my best elevated
Speaker 1: pitch in two minutes in a way that he can
Speaker 1: understand it if I'm trying to get access to those resources.
Speaker 2: Right, So your approach is different depending on the person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, depending on the person like, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And also my code doesn't switch if it's just white people.
Speaker 1: They are very educated black people who I know I
Speaker 1: can't talk up to and walk up to and be like, YO,
Speaker 1: what's good? My g like not that. Some black people
Speaker 1: not with that either.
Speaker 2: Well that's why I said there's a time and place
Speaker 2: for everything. It's like, you got to know your audience.
Speaker 2: You have to know who you're speaking to, so you
Speaker 2: have to know what the opportunity is completely. Get that
Speaker 2: all right. So for me with my perspective as it
Speaker 2: comes to just the code switching or just speaking properly,
Speaker 2: I was raised in a household of course as West Indian,
Speaker 2: and my mom, I think for so long, leaving Jamaica
Speaker 2: when she was younger. Even when she was younger, my
Speaker 2: grandmother always stressed to her the importance of speaking properly.
Speaker 2: So with Jamaica being under British rule for so many years,
Speaker 2: there's this aspiration that some Jamaicans have to kind of
Speaker 2: dim their dialect and their patuas you know, and then
Speaker 2: they want to sound more proper. So that's why Jamaicans
Speaker 2: have developed this version called twang or twang where you
Speaker 2: try to sound a little bit more educated, quote unquote.
Speaker 1: And that's what Tripp was talking about with proximity to
Speaker 1: white men.
Speaker 2: Right, and that's what they aspire towards. So my grandmother
Speaker 2: from when I can even remember as a kid, we
Speaker 2: would sometimes watch this Jamaican comedian, Oliver Samuels, and I
Speaker 2: would repeat my brother and I would repeat that, and
Speaker 2: it was like strictly Jamaican pata that he would speak it.
Speaker 2: And my grandmother would say, you know that, that's what
Speaker 2: he does because he's a comedian, but you should always
Speaker 2: speak properly. So my mom was always big with me
Speaker 2: on that speaking properly. So we joke at my mom now,
Speaker 2: we're just like, girl, you're just faking like you barely
Speaker 2: sound Jamaican because for so many years she's tried to
Speaker 2: kind of eradicate that Jamaican accent to sound more proper.
Speaker 2: And for me now growing up now having my mom,
Speaker 2: when I did pageants, I started at ten, and for
Speaker 2: her when we would have like a speech competition, she
Speaker 2: would always have me a nuncigate tend see the ends
Speaker 2: of my words, And I just grew up, Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I kind of grew up in that. So for me,
Speaker 2: it was normal. So then I go to school in
Speaker 2: East New York. I know, you know, in East New York,
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Bethlehem Baptist Academy, shout out, and I'm around hood
Speaker 2: black kids. So when I got to that school, it's
Speaker 2: already bad enough that I'm super light skinned, got straight here,
Speaker 2: look kind of white, kind of Indian, kind of Spanish.
Speaker 2: They don't know. So the kids used to laugh at
Speaker 2: me and say, I sound like a white girl. But
Speaker 2: that was just me being like, well, how am I
Speaker 2: supposed to sound? So I made it a point when
Speaker 2: I was in there now to immerse myself into the
Speaker 2: black vernacular that was the hood talk. So that's why
Speaker 2: I feel like I was able to do both. And
Speaker 2: throughout the course of my life growing up, there were
Speaker 2: spaces where it required me to fit in that I
Speaker 2: sound like a Brooklyn Roundaway girl, and then when I
Speaker 2: had to get on pageant, it's like I'm Kadeen Joseph,
Speaker 2: thank you. And I spent my entire life doing that,
Speaker 2: And to me, it wasn't necessarily about trying to fit
Speaker 2: into those spaces, but I knew that how I represented
Speaker 2: myself and those spaces mattered. So if I was going
Speaker 2: on stage, I wouldn't be like, Yo, what my name is, Kaden?
Speaker 2: I'm from Brooklyn, Da Da Da da d.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing that on stage. I'm not doing that
Speaker 2: in an interview with someone. But when I'm around my people,
Speaker 2: then I could let loose a little bit, which is
Speaker 2: what I tend to do.
Speaker 1: Now, can I ask your question? When you got up
Speaker 1: on that stage and you spoke properly and said the
Speaker 1: end of the word were, You're still not Kadeen?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I still sounded like a black girl to me, Okay,
Speaker 1: And that's that's my point, is like black women are
Speaker 1: not monolithic, which means is if you black, you only
Speaker 1: sound like your hood around the way chick you grew
Speaker 1: up with. No, there are black women who grow up
Speaker 1: in different parts of the country who only sound like
Speaker 1: how you sound on the pageant stage. They're brown skin,
Speaker 1: they're dark, they have course here and everything. Does that
Speaker 1: mean that they're less black? Me?
Speaker 5: And absolutely?
Speaker 1: And that's my point.
Speaker 2: And then you throw me into the news circuit. Now,
Speaker 2: so I go to school for broadcast journalism, right, that's
Speaker 2: a whole nother form of speaking properly. So now I'm
Speaker 2: doing voice addiction. The aim for that was to sound
Speaker 2: like the dialect was like Midwest American, because they felt
Speaker 2: like that was the authentic American when you strip away
Speaker 2: all the accents and the dialects, that was the most
Speaker 2: authentic version of what it sounded like to be American.
Speaker 2: So when you hear news reporters speak on TV and
Speaker 2: they're always like, hello, I'm Kadeen Ellis and I'm reporting
Speaker 2: live for the evening News, that too. Whoever decided that
Speaker 2: that was like the be all that ended all of
Speaker 2: the way news reporters were supposed to sound, That's what
Speaker 2: I aspire to in that space. So it's funny now
Speaker 2: when I meet or talk to news reporters who are
Speaker 2: out of work, you know they're not They're just in person,
Speaker 2: they still sound like what they sound like on television
Speaker 2: because it becomes a part of their identity too. It's
Speaker 2: like they're not necessarily coachaching. This is now them. So
Speaker 2: I don't look at a news reporter and be like, well,
Speaker 2: damn if it's a black news reporter, for example, I
Speaker 2: actually no one who's Dominican. I don't look at her
Speaker 2: and be like, damn, you're less Dominican now. Because you're
Speaker 2: a news reporter and you're speaking to me properly, properly
Speaker 2: in or properly in terms of what we would say
Speaker 2: is a proper way to speak in person, and they're
Speaker 2: not working. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: I mean it does make sense because I agree with it.
Speaker 1: That's what made sense to me. I thought you were
Speaker 1: in agreement with Trible.
Speaker 2: Well, I did agree with some of the things Triple said.
Speaker 1: I'm in agreement with it.
Speaker 2: But then now, in my experience, I'm able to see
Speaker 2: a couple different, you know, ways that it can and
Speaker 2: can't work for people.
Speaker 1: So let me ask all y'all a question. I'm asking y'all,
Speaker 1: y'all have kids, How y'all gonna raise y'all kids to speak?
Speaker 3: You got kids, mister oh, I got kids? Know anyone
Speaker 3: with kids?
Speaker 1: But well, no, Matt wants to have kids. Tripple talked
Speaker 1: about possibly not possible. But let's just an example, like,
Speaker 1: if you have kids, are you going to raise your
Speaker 1: kids and say, yo, I need you to speak black
Speaker 1: like I need you to speak or are you going
Speaker 1: to say become who you are and how they speak
Speaker 1: becomes their identity? Is my point I'm.
Speaker 3: Asking, Well, my response is. I guess it's twofold, right.
Speaker 3: I hold the thought idea that if you code switch,
Speaker 3: or if you have the idea to cod switch, you're
Speaker 3: already lost, right, because you're already thinking about something that
Speaker 3: you're not thinking about the task at hand. You're thinking
Speaker 3: about how you appear or look about delivering whatever you
Speaker 3: have to say or whatever you have to do. That's
Speaker 3: number one. Number two coach switch is important because a
Speaker 3: lot of times we feel like the environment or the
Speaker 3: surroundings have to sort of it has to change for us, right.
Speaker 3: We don't have to fit into the environment. The environment
Speaker 3: has to change.
Speaker 1: You're talking about individuals or just black as individuals, as individuals, right.
Speaker 3: For example, walking into as a New Yorker walking into
Speaker 3: a Southern or Atlanta restaurant or whatever, and the waiter says,
Speaker 3: what you want, how you doing? Like what you want?
Speaker 3: What can I get you? Right?
Speaker 2: For me?
Speaker 3: I want how you doing? How can I serve you?
Speaker 3: But if she talks to me differently, I understand that
Speaker 3: I'm walking into their establishment, So I gotta I'm normally
Speaker 3: going to just accept what they give me because I
Speaker 3: know it's not I know it's not a oh so you're.
Speaker 1: Talking about accepting code switching from people.
Speaker 3: No, I'm talking about code switching is not only just.
Speaker 1: You changing the way you changing the way.
Speaker 3: You speak, but it's assimulating to environments that are around you.
Speaker 2: For example, if you go to a Jamaican restaurant and
Speaker 2: you want more ox steal grievs, Yeah, you're going to
Speaker 2: talk with a little bit of accent with the young
Speaker 2: lady behind the counter because she might relate to you.
Speaker 3: No, I speak how I want want to speak, acting
Speaker 3: or not, makan or not. I'm going to speak how
Speaker 3: I want to speak, but understanding that the code that
Speaker 3: she has I need to accept whatever's going on.
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying is when you get into
Speaker 1: an environment, the code is created by whoever the established
Speaker 1: correct owner, or whoever wants the establishment.
Speaker 3: The establishment, the country, the region, the air, the statement
Speaker 3: on us, and wherever you are. You you should be
Speaker 3: able to understand that. You should coach with yourself. You
Speaker 3: don't have to simulate, right, but don't change up what
Speaker 3: you talking to me? Are you talking to me like that?
Speaker 3: Ask me how I want like? That's unacceptable right for
Speaker 3: me personally, Because you got to understand that people run
Speaker 3: their business the way they want. Countries run their countries
Speaker 3: the way they run, and you can't change it. For example,
Speaker 3: go to China, expect the same pleasantries that you have
Speaker 3: in America. It's probably not going to happen. I know,
Speaker 3: I trust me.
Speaker 1: I understand because I hate when I remember we were
Speaker 1: talking about the other day when we heard this old
Speaker 1: white dude say to things, you speak American, which to
Speaker 1: me is like the most wildest, like speak American? What
Speaker 1: the fuck is American? But I feel you it's like
Speaker 1: code switching is also the well I never thought about
Speaker 1: that till you just said it, but that actually is fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah for me, that that's going back to the environment.
Speaker 3: So going back to my uh, to my child, I
Speaker 3: feel it's important to I feel like it's important to
Speaker 3: understand or teach her that she's gonna have to understand
Speaker 3: and how to navigate these spaces and that's part of
Speaker 3: code switching. But also I want her to be able
Speaker 3: to co switch if if she needs to. It's almost
Speaker 3: a superpower right to be able, like for you to
Speaker 3: go in these spaces and or just to go to school,
Speaker 3: and you know your mom teaches you how to speak
Speaker 3: a certain way, and I know we Jamaican that twine.
Speaker 3: When it comes out like you have to speak like this,
Speaker 3: it gets kind of funky when you hear other people
Speaker 3: do it, but understanding the the reason for it is survival,
Speaker 3: Like the reason that you were taught to code switch
Speaker 3: is to be able to not be not have your
Speaker 3: speech be a district action to what your message is
Speaker 3: absolutely and not necessarily stand out when you don't necessarily
Speaker 3: need to need to stand out your performance to stand
Speaker 3: out your your which is what your abilities to stand out,
Speaker 3: what you bring to the table should stand out more
Speaker 3: than you yourself Like you just got you guys just
Speaker 3: said it don't be the story all back to that,
Speaker 3: like that's it. So teaching teaching my child, I'm absolutely
Speaker 3: going to teach how to coach it because I think
Speaker 3: it's essential for survival. But as far as changing who
Speaker 3: you are for the sake of doing it, that I complete.
Speaker 2: And then it becomes an identity issue, which you don't
Speaker 2: want to happen a specially the kids. I don't feel
Speaker 2: like I've ever had to with the boys. I don't
Speaker 2: think I've ever had to correct them on how to
Speaker 2: say something. And it could be because they're not growing
Speaker 2: up in Brooklyn like we did. So they may not
Speaker 2: sound like Brooklyn kids. They may get flat for that,
Speaker 2: growing up like you were born in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: But they're gonna get f they do. Like when they
Speaker 1: go back to Brooklyn, they be like, yo, why you
Speaker 1: talk like that? And I constantly tell them. Maybe this
Speaker 1: is another reason why I feel like I tell my
Speaker 1: kids all the time, You're not going to be defined
Speaker 1: by how you speak. You're not going to be defined
Speaker 1: by how you look, bro. You're going to be defined
Speaker 1: by what you put out in the world. The essence
Speaker 1: you put out in the world is going to define you.
Speaker 1: Anybody who says you have to be this way, or
Speaker 1: sound this way or do this because of the way
Speaker 1: you look, it's not a person you want to be
Speaker 1: around anyway. And I gotta tell my kids that all
Speaker 1: the time. We talked about this on another one and
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the black excellence, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, what does black excellence look like?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: We have a whole other podcast we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about that. But I don't think black excellence is just
Speaker 1: assimilating to whiteness or aspiring to in a black version.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I think sometimes we get
Speaker 1: lost in that. It's like, let's just aspire to do
Speaker 1: everything white people do in a black way, and that's
Speaker 1: black excellence. What if I want to do something that
Speaker 1: white people have never done before, that's not excellent, even
Speaker 1: if it's great, you know what I'm saying, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't want my definition of who I am to always
Speaker 1: be compared to anything or anybody problematic.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm this whole thing is problem and it's
Speaker 3: wouldn't being problematic. It is losing yourself just to assimilate
Speaker 3: to something else. It's hurtful for not just your generation, Beach.
Speaker 3: You're gonna teach that to other people and they're gonna
Speaker 3: find a problem with it when other people aren't doing
Speaker 3: the same thing as you.
Speaker 2: Baby, that's literally mean think about us. You become from
Speaker 2: a similar backgrounds. It's like being always concerned about what
Speaker 2: everybody's gonna think, and then you create this version of
Speaker 2: who you think people want you to be, and then
Speaker 2: you sometimes don't even know who you are. You try
Speaker 2: to figure out you know, and then it's like I'm
Speaker 2: doing all of this for what? For who?
Speaker 6: Exactly, and I think too. You ask what I raised
Speaker 6: my kids to speak black? Well, first of all, I
Speaker 6: would raise my children to be black and to appreciate
Speaker 6: their blackness and celebrate it and not shrink it or
Speaker 6: change it for any other reason. So if I my
Speaker 6: kids started growing up and I realized that they don't
Speaker 6: sound like I do, I think that children, in the
Speaker 6: way that they speak, they are affected by their environment.
Speaker 6: So kids spend a lot of time at school. If
Speaker 6: they go to a white school, they're going to talk
Speaker 6: like the people around them. But if they know that,
Speaker 6: if they're not doing that because they want to sound white,
Speaker 6: which is why some people do code switch or have
Speaker 6: code switch historically, is because proximity to whiteness. I need
Speaker 6: to sound more white in order to be accepted and
Speaker 6: taken seriously in these spaces. Not necessarily because you want
Speaker 6: to sound more eloquent or you want to be able
Speaker 6: to or rate, but it's because this is how the
Speaker 6: white people talk, I should talk like them so that
Speaker 6: I don't stand out as a black person.
Speaker 5: I don't think.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't want my children to think that way. I
Speaker 6: would always want them to be steadfast in their identity
Speaker 6: as a black person, And I don't think that being
Speaker 6: black means that you can't speak a certain way, you
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying. I do think that black people,
Speaker 6: specifically in certain regions do speak in certain ways, but
Speaker 6: that doesn't make people that don't speak like that less black.
Speaker 5: I don't think that is true.
Speaker 1: That's why I think that that's where I think the
Speaker 1: message gets lost a little bit.
Speaker 6: Well. Code switching is particular to speaking a different way
Speaker 6: in order to be accepted or taken seriously in certain spaces. So,
Speaker 6: like Cadeen said, she code switched when she was around
Speaker 6: black people because at home she was taught to speak
Speaker 6: a certain way. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying
Speaker 6: to talk white or that you're trying to be white,
Speaker 6: but code switching means that you're trying to fit in.
Speaker 6: And so when it does happen that you are black
Speaker 6: and you code switch in white spaces, you're doing that
Speaker 6: because you have an internalized assumption that the people around
Speaker 6: you are not going to accept you for speaking in
Speaker 6: the way that you naturally speak as a black person,
Speaker 6: or using the vernacular that you use that you've been
Speaker 6: taught to use as a black person, that you have
Speaker 6: to kind of change your identity, to shrink your identity
Speaker 6: in order to fit in better with those folks, when
Speaker 6: you shouldn't have to because the work should speak for itself.
Speaker 6: If you're the CEO of a company, you're a black CEO,
Speaker 6: and you come in talking like you know whatever, are
Speaker 6: you going to be afraid that the white people that
Speaker 6: work under you are not going to take you seriously?
Speaker 6: And so you're gonna have to use a different type
Speaker 6: of voice or a different type of language in order
Speaker 6: to get them to pay attention to what you're doing,
Speaker 6: even if you're the best at what you do.
Speaker 1: I understand that, but I understand it. But this is
Speaker 1: my challenge though. Right if I say to you or
Speaker 1: you right now, while you do this good as a woman,
Speaker 1: you should do this like a woman. Do that like
Speaker 1: a woman? How does that make you feel?
Speaker 5: People do that?
Speaker 1: I just ask the question, though I asked to answer
Speaker 1: the question. If I say to you, do this like
Speaker 1: a woman, you do that like a woman, don't that
Speaker 1: make you feel like that person's putting you in a box?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So when we say the black man, you don't
Speaker 1: talk like a black man, what do you think that
Speaker 1: does to us? It puts us in a box. When
Speaker 1: you say a black man talks like a black man,
Speaker 1: it puts us in a box. What I'm saying is
Speaker 1: is the same way it makes you feel as a woman,
Speaker 1: when someone puts a label on you, it puts us
Speaker 1: in the same box when you tell us as a
Speaker 1: black man, you speak like a black man? What does
Speaker 1: that even mean? Like right now you just put like
Speaker 1: I only am supposed to speak this way. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying that I think that it's problematic. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that it's going anywhere. I'm not saying that it doesn't
Speaker 1: exist for women because it does the same way I said,
Speaker 1: how does it make you feel? And your first response
Speaker 1: is will people still do that? Doing it make you
Speaker 1: feel bad? That's because it's problematic. That's what I'm saying
Speaker 1: is that this whole idea of a black person has
Speaker 1: to speak a black way that is problematic. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that it doesn't exist, the saying is problematic.
Speaker 2: What I was agreeing with with Triple just now saying
Speaker 2: is that if a black man, for example, were to
Speaker 2: walk into an office with his white counterparts, and maybe
Speaker 2: he's in some sort of role where he's trying to
Speaker 2: be a leader or he wants a leadership role in
Speaker 2: space and he doesn't speak, you know, or code switch,
Speaker 2: then a lot of times in those particular circumstances, maybe
Speaker 2: they may not take him seriously or may not think
Speaker 2: that understood the job. He has shown improved and already
Speaker 2: has some kind of status, you know, with certain people
Speaker 2: in general, when you reach a certain status, you could
Speaker 2: talk however you want to talk. So I feel like
Speaker 2: Ryan Cooler, for example, is that like he's just like Yo,
Speaker 2: I could talk my shit, however, I want to talk
Speaker 2: my shit right now to whoever in whatever space, because
Speaker 2: this is who I am, and I have this movie
Speaker 2: that has been historic behind me that nobody can't tell
Speaker 2: me about. So that's what I was agreeing with you
Speaker 2: when you said that it's like, Yo, you walk into
Speaker 2: a space and you haven't shown improved yourself yet, then yeah,
Speaker 2: you may have to code switch along the way to
Speaker 2: get to where you got to.
Speaker 1: Im in agreement with everything y'all said. All I'm saying
Speaker 1: is that it's problematic, and y'all are not trying to
Speaker 1: see how problematic it is.
Speaker 2: You see it, I'm saying about it.
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is is that Triple still hasn't
Speaker 1: said it's problematic, because.
Speaker 6: I don't think that it's problematic. And I don't think
Speaker 6: that black dialect is a problematic thing. I don't think
Speaker 6: that acknowledging that there is a such thing as black
Speaker 6: dialect is a problematic thing.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't, and that's fine. We don't have to agree.
Speaker 2: I just think we've acknowledged it right that it is
Speaker 2: a problem.
Speaker 1: Are you saying that she doesn't think that it's a problem.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. You're missing.
Speaker 6: I'm not saying that all black people have to speak
Speaker 6: a certain way. I think that you brought up the
Speaker 6: femininity or doing things like a woman. That's a great example,
Speaker 6: because that is something that I have also had to do.
Speaker 6: I'm not particularly feminine, and all through my life in college,
Speaker 6: especially being in a sorority, I would make myself more
Speaker 6: feminine in ways that did not feel comfortable for me.
Speaker 6: But as I got stronger in my identity and understood
Speaker 6: that this is my version of femininity, I don't have
Speaker 6: to conform to somebody else's version.
Speaker 2: People it's a triple. Do you think that people make
Speaker 2: assumptions about you just off of how you naturally present,
Speaker 2: which is I'm not sure in spaces that you're in,
Speaker 2: what like, what feedback do you get from people with
Speaker 2: just how you show up. We're a woman that some
Speaker 2: people may not know when they look at you that
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 5: I mean all types.
Speaker 6: I'm not, like I said, like, I'm not particularly feminine
Speaker 6: in the way that I speak, or the way that
Speaker 6: I walk, and or you know what I'm saying, the
Speaker 6: way that I relate to other people.
Speaker 5: People always say.
Speaker 6: But I know that the women that I grew up around,
Speaker 6: I get my effeminity from them.
Speaker 5: So this is my version of femininity.
Speaker 6: I think that the same thing comes with language the
Speaker 6: places that you grow up, That's how you learn to communicate,
Speaker 6: That's how you learn to speak if you grow up
Speaker 6: in you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: So I don't know.
Speaker 6: I have learned over the years to celebrate the ways
Speaker 6: the parts of my identity and the way that they
Speaker 6: are instead of trying to assimilate or instead of trying
Speaker 6: to code switch, instead of trying to make other people
Speaker 6: comfortable with me.
Speaker 2: You know, it's take me as I am.
Speaker 6: Take me as I am, and you can either you
Speaker 6: can work on your own comfort.
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna do that for you. That's your work.
Speaker 5: It's my mind.
Speaker 6: I'm comfortable. I'm working on my comfort, you work on yours.
Speaker 2: Okay, anything anything else that we have to say as
Speaker 2: we round out code switching, really really good insightful conversation here.
Speaker 1: To be honest, bro, I understand where Trible is coming from,
Speaker 1: Like I underst just.
Speaker 2: Want to say it's problematic. No, no, no, no problematic y'all.
Speaker 1: I want to say that it's problematic.
Speaker 2: Yes, Trier experience.
Speaker 1: My experience is different. And to be honest, that's the
Speaker 1: whole point of having a podcast is that we don't
Speaker 1: have to agree. Her perspective is no less more important
Speaker 1: than mine. Is just different. And that's the most important part.
Speaker 1: That's how you feel trouble oh shit, based on what
Speaker 1: you've been through, based on what you're saying. I can
Speaker 1: understand that, which I can understand that from my perspective.
Speaker 1: I just think it's problematic. Like the fact that even
Speaker 1: even the fact that we had to have a conversation
Speaker 1: me and Matt watched the whole thing and talked about
Speaker 1: the seventy millimeter and the IMAX thing, and it was cool, right.
Speaker 1: The fact that the internet is talking about how he
Speaker 1: talks and still don't understand the difference in the preferations
Speaker 1: of the film is the problem. That's why it was problematic,
Speaker 1: was because y'all don't even understand that he sat down
Speaker 1: for seven minutes and explain the difference in the prefaces.
Speaker 1: And all black people said was that niggas sound like
Speaker 1: he's from Oakland, because that's my nigga. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: did y'all go see the movie? Do y'all understand differently?
Speaker 1: But I do understand where Triple's coming from. Is like,
Speaker 1: I was prideful. And the fact that he did sound
Speaker 1: like himself.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the fact that people don't know what he's
Speaker 6: talking about is probably the reason why they were so
Speaker 6: proud in that moment. They were like, Wow, he's getting
Speaker 6: super technical. He is a expert in his field. Sure,
Speaker 6: And I don't know what he's talking about because I've
Speaker 6: never studied this and I never even thought to do that.
Speaker 6: But the thing that I can relate to is that
Speaker 6: this is a black man explaining to me something that
Speaker 6: I've never heard of before.
Speaker 1: I think that people just make me pride.
Speaker 2: He's not a rolling out. Oh he started rolling out
Speaker 2: all the different fields and stuff. I was just like
Speaker 2: you say, Okay, good glad we saw it.
Speaker 6: In seventy and especially in a time where we are
Speaker 6: right now, where DEI and stuff is being pushed back
Speaker 6: because white people think that black.
Speaker 5: People are just giving what we have.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you.
Speaker 6: Watched Ryan Coogler talk about his craft and the technical aspects,
Speaker 6: and you think, oh, this nigger.
Speaker 5: Did go to film school.
Speaker 1: He has been.
Speaker 5: Doing this for a long time over here exactly.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I think being proud of being it's true
Speaker 6: to our identity and the best at what we do.
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, I'm gonna be like yeah, and that
Speaker 6: nigg got brain period period.
Speaker 2: All Right, y'all, great conversation. Let's go take another break,
Speaker 2: Payson Bills and come back into listener letter. We'll be back.
Speaker 2: All right, now we're back, but Listener Letters, let's see
Speaker 2: what we're talking about this week. Hi, I really need
Speaker 2: some advice about my marriage. I'm twenty six years old
Speaker 2: and my husband is twenty seven. We've been together for
Speaker 2: eleven years, but going on three years of marriage. Eleven years,
Speaker 2: so that was earlier fifteen. Yeah, okay, we recently had
Speaker 2: our second child, and I'm trying to keep the dating
Speaker 2: aspect of marriage alive. Lately, it feels like we put
Speaker 2: our children before our marriage. For example, when we have
Speaker 2: a conversation, it will most likely be about the kids
Speaker 2: rather than us. There are even times when we put
Speaker 2: the kids to bed and finally have alone time, we
Speaker 2: discuss what we have to do for the kids, like
Speaker 2: doctor's appointments, etc. I'm not a selfish person. I love
Speaker 2: talking about the joy that our kids bring us, but
Speaker 2: I don't always want them to be the topic of conversation.
Speaker 2: I just want the relationship to somewhat get back to
Speaker 2: how it was before we got married and had kids. Deval,
Speaker 2: I love the way you treat Kadeen, and you guys
Speaker 2: still have fun with one another like you guys did
Speaker 2: before the kids. I thought about going out on a
Speaker 2: date once a month, but I'm not sure that that
Speaker 2: will be enough. Please give me some advice as to
Speaker 2: how I can put my marriage before my children. Love
Speaker 2: you guys, and make God continue to bless you and
Speaker 2: your family. Yeah's did you read the book? Did you
Speaker 2: read We Overhurt Me? There is literally a chapter in
Speaker 2: here that says.
Speaker 1: The kids don't come fir.
Speaker 2: First, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you
Speaker 2: realize that if your unit as husband and wife is
Speaker 2: not strong. So the thing is I realized through this
Speaker 2: conversation here, well through their listening letter itself, that it
Speaker 2: didn't seem that there's a problem. It's just that the
Speaker 2: children tend to always be the topic of conversation. So
Speaker 2: it looks like maybe since you have to initiate the
Speaker 2: date night where you say to hubby, like, listen, the
Speaker 2: kids are off the table, the kids are fine. The
Speaker 2: kids will be fine, They'll be there. Now, let's tap
Speaker 2: back into us, because that's several times the conversation de
Speaker 2: valen I would have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we I mean, bottom line is me and me
Speaker 1: and Matt talked about this being when Matt newly married.
Speaker 1: Your partner wants to be desired. That's not a man
Speaker 1: or woman thing, that's just a partner thing. Your partner
Speaker 1: wants to be desired, Which means when you're at the
Speaker 1: table for dinner and you're at your phone talking about
Speaker 1: the kids or something, you're not desiring your partner. Right
Speaker 1: if your mind is somewhere else and you're thinking about
Speaker 1: what the kids have to do. You're not desiring your partner,
Speaker 1: talk about what your partner is in interested in. If
Speaker 1: your partner is interested in theater and makeup or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, Find whatever your partner is interested in so
Speaker 1: that they can feel desirable. We should do a whole
Speaker 1: topic on that about helping your partners stay desirable, because
Speaker 1: we talked about that as men. But the funny thing
Speaker 1: is that it like spiraled into like, well, how does
Speaker 1: your wife want to be desirable? And then me and
Speaker 1: Matt was talking about that in the gym, So that's
Speaker 1: actually a good.
Speaker 2: Episode, Like y'all were working on your bodies.
Speaker 1: No matter of fact, it literally wasn't there no shirt
Speaker 1: on polls together talking about like yo, like we as
Speaker 1: men want to look steps Josh here stoops and too
Speaker 1: because he's not in shape.
Speaker 2: Josh, but innocent bystander.
Speaker 1: We were talking about how like we trying to make
Speaker 1: ourselves more desirable for y'all. But then it was just like, yo,
Speaker 1: like y'all want to be desirable too, because when did
Speaker 1: you take christ to that day to the batting cage?
Speaker 1: He took us to the batting cage because that's something
Speaker 1: she wanted to do, and it was almost the idea
Speaker 1: of like, yo, like she wants to be desirable, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna take her to what she wants to do so
Speaker 1: she can live in this space of feeling seen. And
Speaker 1: so many times being desirable has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: how you look, but just being seen by your parser.
Speaker 2: So then think about that. Since who wrote in here, like,
Speaker 2: maybe think about a way that your partner can be
Speaker 2: seen and it's something specific just for your partner. There
Speaker 2: you go that they're into whatever it is they're into,
Speaker 2: you know, billiards, So you go to a billiards hall
Speaker 2: and you play, and then that might take away the
Speaker 2: parent aspect and the children from it and they feel
Speaker 2: like themselves again, you know. And that's ultimately I think
Speaker 2: what within marriage you're always trying to chase still feeling
Speaker 2: like yourself, but still being a contributing member to your
Speaker 2: partnership as well as your family. So good luck. I
Speaker 2: don't think that you have too many issues here. The
Speaker 2: fact that you guys have been together this long, since
Speaker 2: that young and are still doing well. I just tap
Speaker 2: back in because there's longevity in that were proof. All right, y'all,
Speaker 2: shall we wrap it up?
Speaker 1: Honey?
Speaker 2: You tell me what Okay, so moment of truth time.
Speaker 2: Let's jump into that.
Speaker 1: But now, if you'd like to be featured as one
Speaker 1: of our listeners, email us at E L O I
Speaker 1: S A D V I C E at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Kate don't even want to do a job no more.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm getting over this sinus affection. So I'm
Speaker 2: so struggling a.
Speaker 1: Bit green that came out. That's why she went green.
Speaker 1: She dressed like.
Speaker 2: The value are crazy. I'm sorry, y'all if I sound
Speaker 2: a little funny and I may be a little out
Speaker 2: of it today, that's that's it.
Speaker 1: You came through for them, I.
Speaker 2: Said, everybody's in town. Josh flew into town. Matt said,
Speaker 2: all this ship up I had to make, So give
Speaker 2: me a little grace today, y'all. I'm definitely on meds
Speaker 2: and you know, barely making it. Didn't sleep well, all right,
Speaker 2: So now we can get into moment of truth. Thank you,
Speaker 2: baby for picking up what I dropped.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just all right, baby, I always picking up
Speaker 1: you dropping in a lot.
Speaker 2: All right, let's finish out with a quick moment of truth.
Speaker 2: Let's start with trouble.
Speaker 5: Moment of truth. How however, you are black, you deserve
Speaker 5: the world. Be yourself, period.
Speaker 2: I like that one.
Speaker 1: However, you are black, you deserve the world. Put that
Speaker 1: on the shirt.
Speaker 2: The shirt well trible, we talked about your shirt.
Speaker 1: However, you are black, you deserve that.
Speaker 2: You need to start the list.
Speaker 5: I have a list.
Speaker 1: Good good, that's trouble. That's what you should be.
Speaker 2: How I want mine to say?
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 2: I want one that says okay with okay triple just
Speaker 2: put that down there, thank you, okay, Josh, your turn?
Speaker 3: All right, So Mama wanted. Truth is coach bsiness. Coach
Speaker 3: business is okay. But doing with it you make an accent.
Speaker 7: That's funny because that was gonna be my moment. You
Speaker 7: have to speak properly when you go into people place.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you if you are talking properly and
Speaker 2: you say something like blood clotch, does there you go?
Speaker 3: Josh?
Speaker 2: Can you please lock off the blood closs camera? Thank you, Josh, period.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: Matt, he took mine, baby, my.
Speaker 1: Moment of truth. I'm actually gonna piggyback off of Josh
Speaker 1: Man like code Switshing has more to do about the
Speaker 1: environment you're in than you yourself. So remain true to
Speaker 1: who you are, but be able to move in any environment,
Speaker 1: because if you're black, you deserve.
Speaker 2: The world, period. And for me, it just piggybacks off
Speaker 2: of that and goes back to my soundbit at the
Speaker 2: very beginning. There is a time and place for everything,
Speaker 2: So do what you're comfortable with, but never change who
Speaker 2: you are, all right, y'all? I love that for us.
Speaker 2: Patreon Ganggang, what's up y'all been tapping in and we love, love,
Speaker 2: love to have y'all. Be sure to find us on
Speaker 2: Patreon if you are not there yet to see the
Speaker 2: after show and more exclusive Ellis ever After podcast content,
Speaker 2: and you can find us on social media at Ellis
Speaker 2: ever After.
Speaker 1: I'm Kaden, I am and I am devou And if
Speaker 1: you're listening on Apple Podcast, be sure to rate, review
Speaker 1: and subscribe.
Speaker 7: Yeah he did it again, y'all. He forgot to ask
Speaker 7: y'all what to follow us Ellis.
Speaker 3: Y'all scoring Matt dot Ellis follow all right. You can
Speaker 3: double click on my flex at Joshua Duane you had it,
Speaker 3: didn't practice this morning when he said it to think
Speaker 3: about you. You could double click on my flicks at
Speaker 3: Joshua Underscore Dwayne period.
Speaker 7: Like that.
Speaker 5: I'm at trips, the Cool t R I B b Z,
Speaker 5: the Cool on everything.
Speaker 2: Because she's just so cool, y'all. All right, we'll see
Speaker 2: you next time.
Speaker 1: Dead Ass.
Speaker 6: Cut Ellis ever Apter is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted
Speaker 6: by Kadeen and Deval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video,
Speaker 6: production by Joshua Duane and Matthew Ellis, video editing by
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Speaker 8: Has to give the Hans If the Hans in the
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Speaker 2: Gree