1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and smitha I'm looking to stuff 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Never Told You production of I Heard You, And today 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: we are actually doing the thing we always say we're 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: going to do when it comes to book club. We 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: are talking about a book written by someone recently featured 6 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: on Activists around the World. Ah, we always say we're 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: going to do it and then it gets on the list. 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,919 Speaker 2: But here we are, we're doing it. 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 3: Follow them. 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: Yes and yes, you can see our recent Activist around 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: the World episode that we did on Mikayla Loach where 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: we did say we would be discussing this book. Loach's 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five work Climate is just the start and 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: reminder from that episode. Loach is a black climate justice 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: activist and organizer based out of the UK who has 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: just done so much to get her message out there, 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: including writing books like this one. And this work is 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: aimed specifically towards young folks who have grown up hearing 19 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: doom and gloom frankly messaging around climate change. But it's 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: really hopeful and it offers solutions for change. But it's 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: also very like, I understand why you feel the way. 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: The book feels very much like a conversation. Her writing 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: is really open, it's really friendly. When the book opens, 24 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: she introduces herself in a very personable way. It describes 25 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: her own feelings of guilt for her own safety when 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: others are struggling, and wanting to fight that on fairness. 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: She originally thought that being a doctor was the way 28 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: that she could help because she'd never been exposed to 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: activism when she was younger, or at least not that 30 00:01:55,320 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: she registered. But once she was exposed to activism, especially 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: activism around the climate crisis, she started meeting up with 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: activist and engaging with them in a number of ways. 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: This book gives a very succinct, clear breakdown of climate change, 34 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: climate activism, and what we can. 35 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: Do about it. 36 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: It is geared towards eight to twelve year olds, but 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: honestly I find it really helpful too. There are illustrations 38 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: throughout as well to help make the point clear, to 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: bring it home, and poetry breaks because the topics are heavy. 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: This kind of reminded me of when we were writing 41 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: our book and we were like, we should put in 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: a little little breaks. Yeah, yes, exactly. On top of that, 43 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: she uses specific stories from people in different locations about 44 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: the myriad of ways climate change is impacting them. Just 45 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: for an example of how friendly her tone is. Here's 46 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: a quote. We'll have to go back in time to 47 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: work this out, which means we're going to hop into 48 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Mikayla's time machine. It's pink, my favorite color. Fun fact, 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: I pretty much only wear pink, and it's powered by 50 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: feelings of curiosity, passion, and imagination. We're going to do 51 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: this a lot throughout the book, so buckle up. It 52 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: feels to me when I was reading it, it's like 53 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: a personal letter waiting for response, you know, It's like 54 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: you have a pen pal or something. 55 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I think she does a great job. I 56 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 3: don't think we talked much about this during our conversation 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: about her specifically in our activists around the world, but 58 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 3: she did talk about the importance and she doesn't talk 59 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 3: about it in the book, and I'm sure we're going 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: to discuss it in a second. But the way that 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: she loves pink and is kind of one of her things, 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: a signature for her, and the reasons behind it and 63 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: why it's so important that she can be I think 64 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 3: we did kind of mention that soft black girl aesthetic 65 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 3: and how that is important to her. So also not 66 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: being ashamed of something that she loves that can sometimes 67 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: be seen as a weakness. It's like it's both levels. 68 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: So I do love that, and I was telling you 69 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: earlier I had bought the book from our local bookstore, 70 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: Caras Books. But I also love like hearing the audio version, 71 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: especially when the authors are the ones who read it themselves. 72 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: And in this recording, it's her glorious. Her voice is 73 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: very soothing and kind. She should be doing this as 74 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: part of her job as well, because like she does 75 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: a great job in relaying everything she's writing. And then again, 76 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 3: like I said, she's got one of those perfect voices. 77 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 3: Her accent in general is just soothing in itself. So 78 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: if y'all have the time and you want to listen 79 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: to it and don't have the like physicality of sitting 80 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: down and reading, or you know, aren't able to, it's 81 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 3: a great option because she does voices herself and it's 82 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 3: really nice. It is a soothing as you think it is. 83 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is this book tackles 84 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 1: such big ideas and explains them in their simplest forms, 85 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: but in a way that is very It's not patronizing 86 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: at all. 87 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: It's just like, we don't have. 88 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: Time to get into the whole thing here, but very basically, 89 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: here's what we're talking about. But she does do it 90 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: in a way, like I said, that is it's very 91 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: it's very kind, it's very understanding, but it's also very 92 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: accepting of Yes, this is a difficult topic and it's scary, 93 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying you shouldn't feel that, but also 94 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: don't let that stop you and don't let you yourself 95 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: freeze and fear because of that. Yeah, it's very hopeful, 96 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: and it's about two hundred pages, I think, and this 97 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: is going to be a bit of a shorter episode 98 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: because I could explain climate change to you, but I 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: feel like you should pick up the book yourself. But 100 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: a lot of it is those kind of definitions and 101 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: things like that, So definitely go check it out. As 102 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: I said, I found it extremely useful for myself and 103 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: I even feel like I have a good grasp on 104 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: these concepts. 105 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: But yes, we're not going to get into. 106 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: The the whole science of climate change in this one, No, no, 107 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: no no, But we do have some things we wanted 108 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: to discuss and one of the big, perhaps the biggest 109 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: themes of this book is environmental justice, and that is 110 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: kind of where Loach aligns a lot of her work, 111 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: And we've talked about that a lot before, because, like everything, 112 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: the environment is intersectional and there's a lot of things 113 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: going on there. But yes, beyond these basic facts of 114 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: climate change, of how it works and what's fueling it, consumption, 115 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: the history, colonization, racism, sexism, white supremacy, reparations, capitalism, like 116 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: these are the topics she's she's delving into in this book, 117 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: which are all obviously related, but I feel like sometimes 118 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: we sanitize it for kids. But she she's like, no, 119 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: this is why, this is why it's happening. This is 120 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: all of that. So here are a couple quotes. One is, sorry, 121 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: I've never heard of this. Have you ever heard of 122 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: the Overton window? 123 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: I have not. I mean, this book really helps, like 124 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: I know this for kids. But this is also where 125 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: we talk about how education is not great in public schools, 126 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: and it is like authors and researchers and activists like 127 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: her that teach us a lot. I wish we had known. 128 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 3: I had known as a kid. I'm like, oh my god, 129 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: know what it is? 130 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: I did not know. 131 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: Nope, me either, me either. All right, So quote, the 132 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: Overton window is a tool for identifying ideas a majority 133 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: of people find sensible, popular, or acceptable. Think of it 134 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: like a vibe check, but for the whole country or 135 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: the whole world. Governments, politicians, and activists all use it 136 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: to measure the possibility for chain at a moment and 137 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: time on an issue, would people find it unthinkable, radical, 138 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: maybe popular? For any given issue, the closer the Overton 139 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: window gets to the middle, the more likely a government 140 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: will have the opportunity to change laws or change policy 141 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 1: about it. I wanted to include this because I've actually 142 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: I've thought about this stuff a lot, and I didn't 143 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: know it was a thing, Like I know it was 144 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: a thing, but I didn't know there was a term, 145 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: but like that idea of we just need to get 146 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: enough people to be on board with this, and then 147 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: we could finally change But keeping that in mind of 148 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: always questioning are enough people on board with this, right, well, 149 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: they go along? So I when I read that, I 150 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: was I felt kind of a huh, yes that. And then, 151 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: as there should be in any discussion about climate change. 152 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: There is a lot of discussion about capitalism in this book, 153 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: and we have a couple quotes throughout the episode about it. 154 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: But here's one Capitalism is like a giant python wrapped 155 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: around us and the world, squeezing out everything it possibly can. 156 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: It is that strong and that powerful. And now that 157 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: I've explained a little bit about what it is, let's 158 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: end this chapter with a thought about what it means 159 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: for our future. Simply put, capitalism is fundamentally incompatible with 160 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: the continuation of human life on Earth. That's a strong statement. 161 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: There's no way around it. For capitalism to ultimately succeed, 162 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: the majority of life on Earth would have to die. 163 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 164 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I said, she doesn't shy away from the truth, 165 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: but she's also has a hopeful like we can change it, right, it. 166 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: Doesn't have to be this way. 167 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 3: One of the things I thought about this book in 168 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 3: conversation in general, is that we don't hear often what 169 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 3: capitalism can do, especially when you're growing up again. I've 170 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 3: been out of high school in midle school for a while, 171 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: but when we learned about capitalism, it just seemed like 172 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 3: a natural progress of like understanding that this is how 173 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 3: you succeed m m, but how it really is not 174 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: as great as you think it is, Like you don't 175 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 3: learn that to your adulthood. So she's really putting it 176 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 3: out there as a way, like a let's teach the 177 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: young what this actually looks like, especially today. 178 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I completely agree. 179 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: I think that being exposed to that idea when you're younger, 180 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: and I as much as our education system is under 181 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: siege right now of trying to get rid of any 182 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: materials that don't paint like the white supremacists past, I 183 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: do think that the younger, younger folks today are they're 184 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: having more questions than I was at that age. 185 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, yeah, I mean that social media is connecting. 186 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 3: And I will say when I was reading this book, 187 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: I was just thinking that one of is such timing 188 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: with what we're seeing in the youth doing today, with 189 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: the protests and like, because to me, this book, yes, 190 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: is about all the changes and learning these things, but 191 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 3: it also was a call on how to do activism correctly. 192 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, and I think I've seen 193 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 3: a lot of youth really doing it right, like they 194 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: are really getting it right, and very proud to see 195 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 3: the younger generations, maybe with all of the other things 196 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 3: that we're so disheartened by seeing kids who understand what 197 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: is to have morality and stand up for others. And 198 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 3: I feel like books like these are so important to 199 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 3: kind of align people to understand because she talks about 200 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: organizing and I was like, oh, this is so important. 201 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 3: How do we get this book out there? Because part 202 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: of that is that conversation too. 203 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, absolutely, And she does have, like as with 204 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: a lot of books like this, she has a lot 205 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: of good resources and she has a lot of good 206 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: tips on how to organize and ways to if you're 207 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: feeling guilt, how you can alleviate that, even small way 208 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: or way all the different ways that can look which well, yeah, 209 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: we'll discuss more. 210 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 2: In a second. 211 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: Another thing she really hammers home also can't talk about 212 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: climate changer without talking about this, is that, yes, it 213 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: hurts some people more than others, and specifically marginalized communities. 214 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: That hurts marginalized communities more than others. And I thought 215 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: it was interesting because she does this kind of reflecting 216 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: of when she was a kid and how she felt. 217 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: And one of the things she kept bringing up was unfairness, 218 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: that it was unfair, but also big emotions, which we 219 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: are going to come back to as well on the second. 220 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: But you know, when you're a kid, those kind of 221 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: it does feel unfair and it maybe it does feel 222 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: too big and your emotions are too big. But here's 223 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: a quote. It's because some people want more money for 224 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: themselves and do not care if the rest of us 225 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: live or die. That might be a difficult thing to hear. 226 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: Maybe it feels to you like one of those situations 227 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: that just doesn't make sense, and you're right, it doesn't. 228 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: But the people in charge of fossil fuel companies have 229 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: proven over and over again that they don't care about 230 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: anyone but themselves, no matter what their fancy advertisements might say. So, 231 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: once again, getting to telling the youth at an early age, 232 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: these companies don't care about you. They do not care 233 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: about you at all. They don't care about anybody except themselves. 234 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: That is it. 235 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: And this also really resonated with me. Here's a quote. 236 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: While we spend hours squeezing our homemade oat milk, these 237 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: polluting giants pump millions of barrels of oil from the ground. 238 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: While we obsess over our individual impacts and sit in guilt. 239 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: The companies and governments that wachas and de carbon heavy 240 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: lifestyles are getting away with it. Sure, some guilt can 241 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: be helpful, especially for those of us in highly polluting countries, 242 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: but I don't think it's the best motivator. I just 243 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: because she has this whole thing where she's trying so 244 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: hard to minimize her impact, she's making her own oatmel, 245 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: she's going out of her way. And then yeah, but 246 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Yeah, she. 247 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: Does an amazing job in this conversation, because I think 248 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: we've all felt this when we start learning about an 249 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 3: issue and we take a deep dive and we get 250 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 3: overwhelmed by the horrors that we see. And also she's 251 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 3: undoing years of the gas lighting that these companies did 252 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: to our generation, specifically telling us if we recycle, and 253 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 3: she talks about this and if we use paper straws, 254 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: if we did these, then yes, you could help the environment. 255 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: It's not us. When again she's like, seventy percent of 256 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 3: all this waste and pollution is done by corporations, not us, 257 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: And sure, like we all want to be better, but 258 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 3: like trying to put that responsiblity back on us and 259 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 3: not on them while they still make money and cost havoc. 260 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: It's like a whole new level. So a lot of 261 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 3: these times when I was thinking, like, if these kids 262 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: are reading this book, they're going to come back and 263 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 3: tell their mom and they're recycling, Like that doesn't matter, 264 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 3: Like coming back with the understanding that this is actually 265 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 3: a falsehood, don't stop, and we should still want to 266 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: do better. Nonetheless, but then the conversation comes back to 267 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: revealing the truth that took us a long time. Like 268 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 3: literally we would just yell at each other about how 269 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: we were being wasteful. You're you know, you're letting out 270 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 3: all the air, You're causing us to do all these 271 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 3: things that are bad for the environment. But in actuality, 272 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: it's not us. Like it's still not great, and we 273 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 3: still need to do better, but it's not the big picture. 274 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 3: We're talking in small pictures. We're talking about the gaslighting 275 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 3: that has happened for years. I still think about Man 276 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 3: thirty Rocks really been on my mind. Apparently already Rock 277 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 3: did an episode of like are you just gonna put 278 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: a green peacock on the corner of the screen, say 279 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 3: you're doing your part to keep everything, you know, clean 280 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: up the environment, and that's what you're doing. NBC Okay, 281 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: like they make fun of themselves, but it's actually very 282 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: true that it was their doing, and this was their 283 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 3: kind of solution, which they talk about greenwashing, which we've 284 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: talked about pink washing and all of that, and I 285 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 3: think we've talked about greenwashing as well. But like it is, 286 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: it's true, like she really goes after it, like a 287 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 3: is so overwhelming the things that you think you need 288 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: to be doing, But the actual big conversation is going 289 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: after the big wigs. And I thought about that with 290 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: like the child labor laws and all of the labor 291 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: laws that happened around the world and talking about it's 292 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: not really us just it. Don't get me wrong, Yes, 293 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: boycotting is very, very very good, and we need to 294 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: but it's the bigger picture of like going after the 295 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 3: companies and come and holding them responsible, penalizing them, arresting them, 296 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 3: doing the things that need to be done. But yeah, 297 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: I really enjoyed the fact that she was able to 298 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: call that out but also talk about her own experien 299 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 3: is of like filling the overwhelming responsibility on harge hid 300 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 3: and do everything she can and then having in the 301 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 3: light bulb moment of like, oh, oh here's the truth 302 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 3: of the matter. 303 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think I've talked about this before. 304 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: But I was really big into like that was one 305 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: of the clubs I joined at my university was about 306 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: the environments. 307 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: It was kind of a big thing for me. 308 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: But when I would get really depressed, I would think, 309 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: like it was the most sad thoughts, but it was like, 310 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: how many resources I'm taking up? If I just wasn't here, 311 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: how much better. 312 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 2: Would the world be? 313 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,959 Speaker 1: And I believed it, but it would be so minuscule 314 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: compared to. 315 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 2: What these companies are doing. 316 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how kind of successful they were with their 317 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: gaslighting and their greenwashing and their well, if you just 318 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: basically stop existing in our modern world. 319 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 4: That's maybe maybe. 320 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 321 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: Another thing. 322 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: So, like I said, she has these stories from people 323 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: who have been highly affected by climate change. One of 324 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: the ones that really stuck out to me was about 325 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: her childhood beach in Jamaica, and it was like her 326 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: favorite beach and she had these really nostalgic memories of it, 327 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: and during the pandemic, she went to visit it and 328 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: hadn't been there in a while, and it was just 329 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: a race, like it was gone because of the water 330 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: coming in and because of climate change. And she compares 331 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: that to another story of somebody else she interviewed and 332 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: or talked to you or was a friend with and 333 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: they had a similar thing. And there was a quote 334 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: in there that really stuck out to me, is learning 335 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: to live with the pain of like it just yeah, 336 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: the beach is gone and now it's rocks, and so 337 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: when we go to it, it hurts. 338 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: But that's we have to learn to live with the pain. 339 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of discussion about health as well 340 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: and how it impacts health, especially of kids, and also 341 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: everything like everything your daily life, your the food growth 342 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: around you and thus your health, livelihoods, leisure, just. 343 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: That learning to live with the pain. 344 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: It's like everything every day you can't escape it, and 345 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: it's also really interconnected. I think this was a good 346 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: I read a really good essay about this when I 347 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: was in college that just I still think about. But 348 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: you know, for some of us, at least for me, 349 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: when I I used to go to the grocery store, 350 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: I didn't think twice about where anything came from. And 351 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: the story was about the essay was about like all 352 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: of the violence behind the like orange I was picking 353 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: up and I just never knew. I didn't even think 354 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: to ask about where the orange came from, and so 355 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: a lot of this she breaks she really breaks down 356 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: of like where did this fabric come from? Who did 357 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: the work? How did it get shipped here? Like what 358 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: ask yourself these questions, and just a real breakdown of 359 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,239 Speaker 1: like the amount of waste we generate, just things that 360 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: never get sold, yeah, and choices that we make. 361 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. It was alarming, like the Mountain, Like will you 362 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 3: hear the statistics and you just it just makes. 363 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: You angry, Yeah, because. 364 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: You have no control of it, Like you see how 365 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: the discussing it is. And for the adults, we've known 366 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 3: these statistics a little more or at least a chunk 367 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 3: of it, like for those who have been in this industry, 368 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 3: but hearing it every time stills feel still disheartening because 369 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 3: we know that truth has been out there, that it 370 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 3: came out as like a shock factor, like oh and 371 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 3: I think like maybe probably ten percent of change, Like 372 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 3: some grocery stores finally figured it out and they're like, oh, 373 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 3: oh yeah, we will donate to local shelters. Then we 374 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 3: got you after being called out for all the bad practices, 375 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 3: arresting people forgetting trash like what they consider trash rather 376 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 3: that is just so disheartening to hear and then like 377 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 3: how it could be easily solved, and the fact that 378 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: there's a solution and it's still not been completed. That's 379 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: when you just want to start throwing things. 380 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 381 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: No, it's very frustrating. And she really does go through 382 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: like the It was kind of funny because I forgot 383 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: about that. Uh, just the journal with the voice activated password. 384 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 2: She talks about I had one of those two. 385 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: Oh did you I think this was after my. 386 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: Oh so cool, But she says in there, like, you know, 387 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: two weeks later, I didn't use it ever. 388 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: Again she was talking about. I was like, I had 389 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: no idea. What what did she say? It was okay, 390 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 3: so wow, okay, yeah, I was still in the kyles 391 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: for the lock and key thing. 392 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: Okay, okay. 393 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: Yet, but she she was basically saying that as a 394 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: way to frame like how long are you gonna want 395 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: this thing? 396 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? 397 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the amount of waste that's privileged people 398 00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: have is insane, insane and like actually, but there are 399 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 3: those moments no no excuse that I'm like, damn. 400 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 2: It, I threw it out like that one time. 401 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 3: I finally can use anything like damn it. 402 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, I tossed it yeah, I told the. 403 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 3: One that pumps in my head every time like that 404 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 3: one time I needed it and not throw it out. 405 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean if you have it, then if 406 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: you can use it in a different way or she's 407 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: a big proponent of that too. 408 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 3: But it did make me laugh. But that's where my 409 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 3: head went first, thing, yes, or seeing how much of 410 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 3: value could be You're like. 411 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 4: Oh, make me money, and you're like, you came, that's right, 412 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 4: that's greed. Sorry, moving on, it's all right, No, but yeah, 413 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 4: I did think about that, especially when you talking about 414 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 4: fast clothing and we've talked about that as well, and 415 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 4: of course, like she also is really great about talking 416 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 4: about what you can afford affordability versus what you are 417 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 4: privileged to be able to abstain from, yep, and how 418 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 4: to do how to work that out of course, like 419 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 4: things like Goodwill and all that exists obviously to help 420 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 4: us in the US internationally. No, that's a whole different story. 421 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 4: But like when you have consignment stores that aren't making 422 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 4: try to make profit, but it is better for the environment, 423 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 4: and you can look at that finding different ways. But 424 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 4: it is also about like some people can only afford 425 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 4: the prices of things at Walmart, like to have the 426 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 4: sustainability or they have coupons in these areas and they 427 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 4: have to use it here. Like the accessibility is a 428 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 4: big part of the conversation, and she does a really 429 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 4: great job and making sure she addresses that as well, 430 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 4: because I've thought about that with like clothing and such, 431 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 4: because you don't get some availabilities. You can't find it 432 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 4: at department stores because they are outsized or like not 433 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 4: accessible for people with disabilities, as that they can't even 434 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 4: get in like stuff like that in this level of 435 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 4: like okay, or they're not able to shop long periods 436 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 4: of time, stuff like that In this conversation is also 437 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 4: an understanding that the accessibility is important, whether it's from 438 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 4: being able to afford it to physically being able to 439 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 4: get to their in this level of conversation. 440 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, absolutely. 441 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: Here is another quote putting the blame on humans are 442 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: all of us is far too vague. It feeds into 443 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: the same cycles of guilt and shame that can be 444 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: super unhelpful. When one hundred companies are responsible for seventy 445 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: one percent of climate crisis causing emissions since nineteen eighty eight, 446 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: and the richest one percent of the world's population produce 447 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: more than double the carbon emissions of the poorest half 448 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: of the world. We did not cause the climate crisis. 449 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: To say any of these catch off words to allocate 450 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: responsibility is to let the small percentage of people who 451 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: are actually responsible off the hook. We can't afford to 452 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: do that, And then continues when we talk about responsibility, 453 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: when we talk about consumption, it's not as simple as 454 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: it might seem at first. Those who can afford to 455 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: or are able to make more climate friendly changes should 456 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: make those changes. We will all have to live our 457 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: lives differently in order to meet climate targets, and we 458 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: should all be open to change. But a lot of 459 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: these changes, like insulating homes, aren't accessible to most people now, 460 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: so we need to persuade governments to make them accessible 461 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: rather than guilting or putting the responsibility on the people 462 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: who don't have a choice in the matter. So going 463 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: back to your point, Smith, Yes, yes, one thing we're 464 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: not going to go too deep into in this conversation, 465 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: but I did want to mention is that she discusses 466 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: the money that went into from these companies that went 467 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: into climate denial of basically saying climate change is not real? 468 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: What are you talking about? Which was a big thing 469 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: when I was in college. 470 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 2: I remember this. 471 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they might be in our offices now 472 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 3: like governmental forces now they want to misuse the term 473 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 3: global warming and you want to just smack them. Maybe 474 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: we should give them this book they can under comprehend. 475 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 2: They would never read it. We would have to trick them. 476 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 3: It wouldn't get arrested. 477 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: To you, yes, yes, But I didn't want to put 478 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: that in there because I'm interested to see how younger 479 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: folks if that's still as big as it was when. 480 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: I was young, right, what they see? 481 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm mm hm, Any listeners, let us know. But 482 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: I remember having this debate in college. I was in 483 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: a debate class. So our final theme is hope, because, 484 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: as we've said, this is a really hopeful book. It's 485 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: really palpable how hopeful she is and how important she thinks. 486 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: That hope is. When it comes to this. 487 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: She tackles these ideas of it's too late, we can't 488 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: do anything, it's too late, and giving up and she says, nope, 489 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: absolutely not. And here's a quote tackling the roots, toppling 490 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: and composting the tree of injustice and oppression. That is 491 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: climate justice work. It's not simple or easy, but it 492 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: is worth doing. It is also possible. So she has 493 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: this metaphor for this tree that's rotting and people, you know, 494 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: might try taking off some of the leaves, or they 495 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: might try taking off some of the branches, but the 496 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: roots are the problem and it's killing the whole like 497 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: every other tree, everything else that tries to grow. So 498 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: we've got to go to the roots of the problem. 499 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: And yes, as I said, not letting fear control you. 500 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: She really throughout the book makes the point about reminding 501 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: you of that. 502 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 2: Here's a quote. 503 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: My dad made it clear that I didn't have to 504 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: and couldn't fix everything, but he also said that didn't 505 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: mean I couldn't do anything at all. And that moment 506 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: I understood that you don't have to be a perfect 507 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: hero to take action. Whatever we can do matters. If 508 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: we can save one person, make one life a bit 509 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: better or a bit safer, it matters. How could that 510 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: not matter? Yeah, it was a really cute story she did, 511 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: like a bake sale. 512 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: We kind of mentioned it actually in the act part 513 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: where she kind of started her origins. But I think 514 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 3: she does a great job. Throughout the book. You talked 515 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: about her metaphors and illustrations, and here and then she 516 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: does a great job in several ways and breaking down 517 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 3: different ways, talking about catalysts and talking about colonialization. She 518 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 3: gives it a bit good way of like understanding what 519 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 3: this is for any parents or aunties or any of 520 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 3: the people who have children in their lives. I think 521 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 3: this is a great book. I think making sure you 522 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 3: have a discussion at the beginning at the end of 523 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 3: this so that they don't get overwhelmed in all of 524 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: this information, because it can be overwhelming to see, especially 525 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 3: like an empathetic child like that. Yeah, that's the hardest 526 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 3: in trying to let them understand how big this is. 527 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: But I really think she does a great job and 528 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 3: breaking down things that we should have learned as a 529 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: kid to begin with. But of course corporations would not 530 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 3: want you to this, absolutely, it would be one of 531 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 3: those things that people would say was woke, which is 532 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 3: not a bad thing again, but it's just that level 533 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: of like this is a great way in cultivating someone 534 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 3: who you know could be a great activist. 535 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: I think yes, absolutely, And going back to what you 536 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: said and what I mentioned, earlier is that this book 537 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: is pretty heavy in ways, and she does talk about 538 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: having big feelings, and so I wanted to read two 539 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: quotes about it because I just think they're so important. 540 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: Maybe these situations have made you feel really sad. I 541 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: know I still cry regularly when I hear news about 542 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: our climate crisis, read stories about injustice, or learn about 543 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: a tragedy on social media. My heart breaks often when 544 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: asking questions about things that don't make sense in our world. 545 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: Has anyone ever told you, look, it's just the way 546 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: the world is, or that's something you'll understand when you're older. 547 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: I was a kid who asked lots of questions and 548 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: adults would answer me like this. I asked but why 549 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: a lot? And I was rarely satisfied with the response. 550 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't help wondering why is this just the way 551 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: the world is? Honestly why? But lots of adults wouldn't 552 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: want to get into it, and something seemed different about them. 553 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: They cried less than I did, and sure sometimes for 554 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: understanding reasons, but they also felt less and that was 555 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: celebrated like it was a good thing, like it was 556 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: better to not feel things deeply, to not cry or 557 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: be moved by injustice, but instead to look through or 558 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: past it. This made no sense to me. It still doesn't. 559 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: If someone is so tough that they never cry about anything, 560 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: this is seen as strength. If someone can witness or 561 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: experience something sad, scary, or tragic and seem untroubled by it, 562 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: this is somehow rewarded as bravery. I see it differently. 563 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: I think it's braver to feel heartbreak, even if it hurts. 564 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: I love that so much because you know, not only 565 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: could we talk about that in terms of toxic masculinity, 566 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: but I completely agree. I think it's much harder to 567 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,959 Speaker 1: have your heart broken over and over again. And I 568 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: think people in any kind of activism work or work 569 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: where you care about other people, it requires that, and 570 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: that's a strength, that's a It's difficult, and so I'm 571 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: really glad that she made sure to put this in there, 572 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,959 Speaker 1: and too, you know, for the readers who are probably younger, 573 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: a lot of them say, it doesn't make sense to 574 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: me either, This makes no sense. 575 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 2: You should care. Why would you not care? 576 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 3: I mean, she definitely puts it in a great way 577 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 3: of saying, make sure you know what you feel like, 578 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 3: feel those big feelings but don't get overwhelmed by those feelings, 579 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 3: which is a hard place to be, Like, trying to 580 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 3: figure that out can be a tricky, tricky part. 581 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I mean, I'm sure the listeners of 582 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: this show, no, we know, but it's hard when you're 583 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: trying to make change when everything's so bad, or even 584 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: just talk about what's going on and everything is so bad, 585 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: and sometimes that does mean, you know what, I'm going 586 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: to take a day, just gonna pause for a minute, 587 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: but not to not like bury. 588 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 2: Those feelings and never confront them. Yeah. 589 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 3: She talks about how doing things like pick it out 590 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 3: in poetry, write it out, feel that those feelings, get 591 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 3: those moments, but also understand you are not wholly responsible 592 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 3: for this situation. 593 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly. 594 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: And then to end, she perhaps obviously is a big 595 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,359 Speaker 1: proponent of working together of community, of how we can 596 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: make change through that, and how your activism can inspire 597 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: others to do the same, and then the movement gets 598 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: bigger because their activism will expire inspire other people to 599 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: do the same. Of having these connections and imagination. I 600 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: love that she has a whole section about, you know, 601 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: imagining a better world without limitations, like don't that kind 602 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: of child imagination. Don't put those limitations on yourself, and 603 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: move beyond like systems like capitalism. And she even includes 604 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 1: examples of how that's looked of certain societies where that 605 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: has happened. So it's not like it can't happen, so 606 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: just to take those limitations off. And she ends on 607 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: this really hopeful message of the power of young people. 608 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: And here's a final quote. Hope is active. Hope is alive, 609 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: but only if we organize to keep it that way. 610 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 611 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fantastic read. It's really good. 612 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 3: Yes, really, if you're in the car to get Yeah, 613 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 3: it's available on all the platforms, so if you have 614 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 3: any access to that, you should definitely do that. But 615 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 3: also you should buy the book at independent bookstore if 616 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 3: you can to get the illustrations. 617 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, the illustrations are cute. Yes, so go check it out, 618 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: really really really recommend Yes. Would love to hear from listeners. 619 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: If you have read it, or if you have any 620 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: suggestions about. 621 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 2: What we should do next. 622 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at Stuffnever Told You 623 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at 624 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: mol Stuff Podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff 625 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have 626 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,919 Speaker 1: some merchandise that Common Hero, and we have a book 627 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: you can get where you get your books. Thanks. It's 628 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: always to our super producer Re Senior Executive produced, my 629 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: indercontributor Joey. 630 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for. 631 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: Listening Stuff Never Told You Prediction by Heart Radio. For 632 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: more podcast from my heart Radio, you can check out 633 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: the Heart Radio Act, Apple podcast or wherever you listen 634 00:36:52,800 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows there whom you f