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Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair.

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Speaker 2: Mel Brooks makes the world laugh. Watch the Producers Blazing

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Speaker 2: saddles Young Frankenstein, Listen to the two thousand year old Man,

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Speaker 2: or read his autobiography All About Me, and you are

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Speaker 2: guaranteed to find yourself laughing out loud until it hurts.

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Speaker 2: But for me, having known Mel for twenty five years,

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Speaker 2: funny is not the first word I would use to

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Speaker 2: describe this amazing man. Hungry, hungry, fiercely proud. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that's your adjective? You get hungry with you. I

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Speaker 2: get hungry when I see you. Wow, we love you there,

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Speaker 2: fiercely proud of his children and his grandchildren, the first

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Speaker 2: one to pick up a phone to a friend in trouble,

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Speaker 2: refusing an award in opposition to the Iraq War and

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Speaker 2: waiting to accept it from President Obama, manerable after the

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Speaker 2: loss of people he loved. To Mel, food and wine

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Speaker 2: are crucial. Many of his life's happenings have occurred in restaurants,

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Speaker 2: and as for wine, he will tell you himself.

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Speaker 1: Spill it all over the table.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to take this seriously today. It is home.

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Speaker 2: We are together, lucky me. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: wine and family and friends and be prepared to laugh

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Speaker 2: because mel Brooks is funny. So that was a serious introduction.

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you what do you want to

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Speaker 1: tell me that before we stopped talking, Before I forget,

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Speaker 1: I would like to do my imitation of a cat,

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Speaker 1: because not a lot of people know that I do it.

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Speaker 1: I make your best cats sound in the world.

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Speaker 2: Ready, I just want just gonna be I just need

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Speaker 2: one second to really get myself into this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's working the sound of a cat. That is

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Speaker 1: that is a perfect sound. It's hard to do, hard

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Speaker 1: to do. I do it in young Frankenstein. I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's a dart throwing contest and one of the

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Speaker 1: dots hits a cat and you hear you know, did you.

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Speaker 2: Do the sound? I get there every night? Can you

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Speaker 2: do it again?

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Speaker 3: Wow?

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Speaker 2: That's good? So what's a technique?

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Speaker 1: Technique is to is to squash some air between your

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Speaker 1: cheek and the front of your mouth.

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Speaker 2: As we're talking about cats and fish, maybe fish, you

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Speaker 2: know cats like to eat fish. We could actually read

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Speaker 2: the recipe.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my favorite of all the all of all

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Speaker 1: the things in the book. There's a good picture of

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Speaker 1: it too in your cookbook River Cafe, London.

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Speaker 2: Thirty because that was done for our thirty.

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Speaker 1: Three threeh thirty years. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember you came to the party?

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Speaker 1: I did. Oh?

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Speaker 2: You and Richard sat there the whole night in the

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, in the restaurant, and everybody just came to

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Speaker 2: your table. Everyone. Everybody wanted to see.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't as important as the food on my plate.

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Speaker 1: A lot of food, paid attention to all. He eats,

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Speaker 1: Ali eats are supreme. Let me read the rest of Okay,

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Speaker 1: there dover soul with Marjora. I don't know what marjoram is,

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Speaker 1: but I love it. Okay, whatever it is, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: one bunch of fresh margarine leaves, one whole dover soul,

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Speaker 1: weighing twelve to fourteen ounces three fifty to four hundred grams,

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Speaker 1: scaled and cleaned. Of course, of course I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to eat it with the scales on, never and with

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Speaker 1: the stuff inside, No, sir. One lemon cut in half.

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Speaker 1: I have lemons, Mayer lemons for my Mayer lemon tree.

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Speaker 1: We're just outside here and they are golden yellow and

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Speaker 1: running with lemon juice that is superior to anything in

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Speaker 1: the world. So if I have a dover sole, I'll

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Speaker 1: bring my lemons.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, we get armored lemons from Amalfi, so they're

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Speaker 2: pretty good too.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here we go. Pre eat the oven to four

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit. That's pretty hot. That's pretty hard.

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Speaker 1: Brush a large flat baking sheet with extra virgin olive oil.

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Speaker 1: Scatter half the mordrum leaves over the sheet along with

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Speaker 1: some sea salt and black pepper. Place the fish on top,

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Speaker 1: season with sea salt and black pepper. Then scatter the

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Speaker 1: remaining mordorum drizzle drizzle generously with olive oil. Okay, that

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Speaker 1: sounds great. Bake for fifteen to twenty minutes. Tests with

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Speaker 1: the point of a sharp knife inserted into the central

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Speaker 1: with the thickest part of the soul.

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Speaker 2: Ah.

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Speaker 1: If cooked, the flesh should come away from the bone. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Squeeze the lemon, either from a malfy or from mel

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Speaker 1: Brooks's lemon tree, over the fish, and serve with any

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Speaker 1: juices from the pans that are left. I like that.

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Speaker 2: Let's begin at the beginning earliest food memories. What do

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Speaker 2: you remember from you know, your early days. Did your

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Speaker 2: mother cook?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my mother, okay, it was It was a standard Williamsburg,

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn Jewish tenement food. So breakfast in the winter was

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Speaker 1: always a hot cereal, cream of wheat or ralston which

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Speaker 1: was the kind of Baridge brown porridge, and then in

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Speaker 1: the summer cornflake strice krispies or wheaties.

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Speaker 2: What year would that have been? How old would you?

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Speaker 1: I would that would be thirty five. I'd be around nine.

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Speaker 1: That's when I went my uncle Joe, shortest jew on earth.

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Speaker 1: Short he was about four to four when when a taxi,

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Speaker 1: a big checker taxi cab rolled down the streets of Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: and there was no driver. That was Joe. There was

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Speaker 1: no driver. It was so short it get just about

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Speaker 1: peer over the you know. Anyway, Joe took me because

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Speaker 1: his friend al was the doorman of the Alvin Theater

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Speaker 1: on fifty second Street, and running at that same theater

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Speaker 1: was Cold Porters Anything Goes. I had never seen a

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Speaker 1: Broadway show. I was nine years old and Uncle Joe

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Speaker 1: took me to see Anything Goes. I was stunned. I was.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it, even though we were in the

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Speaker 1: second balcony as far away from the stage as you

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Speaker 1: can get ethel Merman was too loud.

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Speaker 2: No MIC's she was just she was in anything. Anything

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Speaker 2: goes did say the mother, Yeah, yeah, the woman. It's

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Speaker 2: on a ship, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: And it's on the ship. Very good, yea. And Victim

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Speaker 1: Moore was the gangster, the gang Yeah. Yeah. It was

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Speaker 1: so good. At the end, I nearly clapped my hands over.

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't stop clapping and screaming and shouting. And

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Speaker 1: then I got back an Uncle Joe's camp. I said

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Speaker 1: to him, Uncle John, I'm not going in the garment center.

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Speaker 1: Everybody at three sixty five South third Street, between on

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Speaker 1: Hooper and Use three sixty five South third Street, everybody

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Speaker 1: in that building worked in the garment center. They were

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Speaker 1: shipping clerks, they were cutters, they were designers, they were salesmen.

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Speaker 1: They every buddy I think on the street, the sixty one,

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Speaker 1: three sixty three through sixty five, these tenements, everybody in

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Speaker 1: the garments set. And I screamed at my uncle Joe,

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Speaker 1: Uncle Joe, I'm not I'm not going into the garments that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm gonna go into the show business. I

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Speaker 1: loved it. I loved it, you know, and it changed,

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Speaker 1: but it did and I did. And because of course

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Speaker 1: he take you.

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Speaker 2: To food, what do you take you out to eat?

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Speaker 2: I always went to the theater as a kid, and

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Speaker 2: then there was the meal afterwards, lunch before it was

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Speaker 2: a day out.

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Speaker 1: We had some favorites that Uncle Joe would take us to,

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Speaker 1: where one was called Gallagher Steakhouse. They had like half

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Speaker 1: a cow in the window. I always had these half

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Speaker 1: cows in the window, you know, the raw meat hanging gallaghers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the and the steak was incredible. And sometimes you

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Speaker 1: go to Jack Dempsey's restaurant.

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Speaker 2: And what was that?

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Speaker 1: And that was great, but you know it was it

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Speaker 1: was all meat, it was. There never any fish in

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Speaker 1: a restaurant. Yeah, and I never liked fish. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I ever liked fish until I was seventy or

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Speaker 1: eighty and I went to the.

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Speaker 2: River Cafe, and so really you never ate fish.

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Speaker 1: I hardly ever ate fish as But.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting to me that you you describe a kind

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Speaker 2: of modest home life in terms of food, but you

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Speaker 2: went out to restaurants.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of Jewish restaurants were called dairy restaurants,

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Speaker 1: and they serve stuff like blinches with sour cream and

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Speaker 1: old dairy. You never mixed meat and dairy with something

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Speaker 1: some religious nonsense.

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Speaker 2: Did your grandmother cook for you?

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Speaker 1: My grandmother cook?

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Speaker 2: What did she cooks? Which grandmother? Your mother's my mother's mother.

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Speaker 2: I never knew my you never knew your father's.

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Speaker 1: No, No, my father's grandmother. I did know. She did

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Speaker 1: say to her meals best over meals in Bensonhurst where

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Speaker 1: they lived in a big one family hand.

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Speaker 2: Did they come with their first generation?

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Speaker 1: I know they were. They were European?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so do you think your grandparents brought their

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Speaker 2: food with them? The food they.

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Speaker 1: Cooked the same stuff. Mostly it was chicken, chicken and

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Speaker 1: chicken soup.

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Speaker 2: And uh briscuit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they made brisket. Absolutely, they made brisket and brown potatoes.

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Speaker 2: Do you know my grandparents came They were They came

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Speaker 2: from Hungary and Russia. And my father remembers my grandmother

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Speaker 2: having in the Lower East Side a carp swimming in

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Speaker 2: the bathtub that they would make a filter fish out of.

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Speaker 2: So do you imagine having they would bring it a

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Speaker 2: live fish.

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Speaker 1: Live fish?

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Speaker 2: We would get a live fish.

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Speaker 1: My brother Bernie and I were usually one week. We

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Speaker 1: loved and we called them arty, and we fed them

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Speaker 1: bread crumbs and we chased them around the bathtub. And

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Speaker 1: then it was unspeakable. I can't even describe it. Irving,

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Speaker 1: my old oldest brothers Irving and Lenny held us back.

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Speaker 1: We were screaming, don't kill him, and my mother would say,

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Speaker 1: we gotta eat, we gotta eat supper, and she she'd

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Speaker 1: kill audience, serve him, it was and we would cry,

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Speaker 1: and but we ate him.

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Speaker 2: And then would you get another carp and kill that?

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Speaker 1: We got another car.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting that they had live fish swimming in

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Speaker 2: the back in the back, yeah they didn't.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing that you had to say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my brother Michael, who you know, just wrote, I

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Speaker 2: have found that something my father had written about his

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Speaker 2: memories of food and just living in the Lower east Side.

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Speaker 2: But you weren't in the Lower east Side.

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Speaker 1: Were the Lower east Side? An extension of the Lower

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Speaker 1: east Side was Williamsburg.

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Speaker 2: That was probably one step up, was it.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was one step up if you put it

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Speaker 1: next to a section of Brooklyn called Bronzeville, East New York.

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Speaker 1: And that was really where they had coal stoves. They

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Speaker 1: didn't even have gas. Know, we had electricity and we

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Speaker 1: had guess so we were one step of Browns built

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Speaker 1: equal to the lower east side. And let me tell

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Speaker 1: you that my mother used to make every once in

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Speaker 1: a while on a Sunday night, she would make spaghetti.

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Speaker 1: She would buy a box of Muller's noodles.

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Speaker 2: They were flat, flat noodles.

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Speaker 1: And she cooked them until they were dead.

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Speaker 2: They'd be really soft.

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Speaker 1: Oh, they were really soft. And then she'd put them

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Speaker 1: in a baking pan and she would empty a bottle

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Speaker 1: of Heinz ketchup over them. This is spaghetti. And then

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Speaker 1: she'd bake it for thirty or forty minutes until the

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Speaker 1: pan was dead, till everything was dead. And then she

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Speaker 1: cut them into squares and served it to us and

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Speaker 1: said spaghetti. And I was from eight years old to

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Speaker 1: about thirteen or fourteen. That was spaghetti and it was okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really okay.

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Speaker 1: Then I had joined a club called Baltzer Bugs. We

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Speaker 1: made model airplanes. I think we enjoyed smelling the glue.

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Speaker 1: Where do we like backing the planes? But we may so.

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Speaker 1: One of the Baltzer Bugs was Bernie Steinberger, was Flappy Rothman,

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Speaker 1: and there was Tony Galliani Italian an Italian, and Tony said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going home. It was Sunday and I said, He said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going home to have spaghetti. I said, we have

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Speaker 1: spaghetti on Sunday too. He said, well try, you know,

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Speaker 1: come on and have bar spaghetti. So I went home.

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Speaker 1: I walked into his apartment, which was in green Point,

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Speaker 1: a little on the edge of Williamsburg. As I walked in,

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Speaker 1: I was assaulted by these incredible smells, just as the

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Speaker 1: aromas of of garlic, and I mean, it was just incredible.

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Speaker 1: Then I sat down. They served this warm, squiggly spaghetti,

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Speaker 1: real spaghetti, squiggly but not dead. Fought back and sauces

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Speaker 1: red thick, red, beautiful sauce with meatballs in it, and

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Speaker 1: sprinkled on top of it was this white stuff snow.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Parmazan cheese. And I took I

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Speaker 1: took one bite and I started to cry.

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Speaker 2: Did you cry?

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Speaker 1: I wept? I wept, and I said, Tony, this is

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Speaker 1: this is spaghetti. This is spaghetti. I was about fourteen,

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Speaker 1: and I just wept and I went When I came home,

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Speaker 1: I said, Mom, you're not making spaghetti. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what tide of stuff is that cardpoint? But it's not spaghetti.

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Speaker 2: You're starting to tell me about your her mother's food.

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Speaker 2: What was her mother's food when you went to your grandmother's.

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Speaker 1: Well, we went to the state. It was, I know,

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Speaker 1: they made little dishes before to celebrate the Jews freedom

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Speaker 1: from slavery in Egypt, and had something with apples and

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Speaker 1: stuff that was supposed to mimic the mortar that the

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Speaker 1: Jews carried up to make sure these big stones stayed together.

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Speaker 1: And then some salt for the heart, for the suffering,

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Speaker 1: for the tears, and it was a lot of those

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Speaker 1: little things. And then she served this thing called the

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Speaker 1: filter fish with red horse rice has they called it

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Speaker 1: crane crane or grain, and it was just thrilling. I

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Speaker 1: loved it.

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Speaker 2: So you love food from food?

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Speaker 1: I tasted food. My mother wasn't making food. She was

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Speaker 1: she was making something at bathroom food.

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Speaker 2: So do you think your mother was not?

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Speaker 1: And the first time I had Chinese food? Where was

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Speaker 1: that Inburg? We never went to it. My mother said,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go to a Chinese restaurant, all right. And

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Speaker 1: each meal, the whole meal menu twenty five cents, and

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Speaker 1: the Chinese restaurant and the Chinese restaurant, and you got

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Speaker 1: you got egg that's right. First. Then you got chowmine, oh, cholmine.

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Speaker 1: And then you got a yellow ball with little pieces

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Speaker 1: of ice in it, round ball that was the ice

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Speaker 1: cream dessert. And and then some portun cookies with with

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Speaker 1: the paper in it that you know. I hate the paper.

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Speaker 1: I hate everything. Everything was, everything was sweet.

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Speaker 2: The River Cafe Cafe are all day space and just

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Speaker 2: steps away from the restaurant. Is now open in the

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Speaker 2: morning and Italian breakfast with cornetti, chiambella and cristada from

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Speaker 2: our past your kitchen. In the afternoon, ice creamed coops

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Speaker 2: and River Cafe classic desserts. We have sharing plates Salumi, Misti, mozzarella, brisquetta,

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Speaker 2: red and yellow peppers for Tello, tonato and more. Come

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Speaker 2: in the evening for cocktails with our resident pianist in

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Speaker 2: the bar. No need to book, see you here.

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Speaker 1: One of the most delicious things was very simple. We

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Speaker 1: lived at five five stories up in this tenement and

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Speaker 1: I was I wasn't going to come up. They will

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Speaker 1: get that I was not going to come up for lunch.

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Speaker 1: I was not why because there was five stories and

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to leave the game, right, So we

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Speaker 1: took a break in the game and we all had lunch.

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Speaker 1: They all brought bags and stuff with them, sat on

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Speaker 1: the carry of my friends and my mother would throw

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Speaker 1: in it throw down in a brown paper bag, kaiser

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Speaker 1: roll smeared with a lot of butter, fresh butter, and

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Speaker 1: almost a whole tomato sliced and salted and put that

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Speaker 1: and it was the most delicious thing. You catch it,

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Speaker 1: and I'd always catch it. But one time I missed it.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say five stories up as.

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Speaker 1: One time I missed it and splat blast, you heard

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Speaker 1: the sound, and the bag was crammed with wet So

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Speaker 1: I very carefully peeled that what used to be the

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Speaker 1: bag away from the sandwich, and I began eating the sandwich,

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Speaker 1: and I once again cried. It was so great. It

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Speaker 1: was the closest thing to pizza.

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Speaker 2: When did you have your first pizza?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I had my first pizza when I was I

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Speaker 1: was sixteen or seventeen.

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Speaker 2: So as a teenager, you lived at home, and then

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Speaker 2: when did you leave you When you left home, did

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Speaker 2: you cook for yourself?

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Speaker 1: Well? I didn't leave home home, Okay, I was sent

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Speaker 1: to Virginia Military Institute the Army. There's a guy that

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Speaker 1: came to my high school and we were going to graduate.

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Speaker 1: We were seventeen. We're going to be eighteen and graduated

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Speaker 1: from Eastern District High School. Our claim to fame was

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Speaker 1: a red hour back was a great, incredible basketball coach

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Speaker 1: and world famous and he was on the team and

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Speaker 1: he was a genius. Anyway, I left because the guy said,

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Speaker 1: if you can pass the test, you'll be in the

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Speaker 1: Army Specialized Training Reserved program and it would stand you

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Speaker 1: in good stead because later when you were drafted or

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Speaker 1: taken into the regular Army, you already had some background

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Speaker 1: in military and you could maybe choose your branch of service. Great, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So I took the test and the test was not hard.

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Speaker 1: It was how much is doing too? I said, well,

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Speaker 1: if you put them next to each other, you got

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Speaker 1: twenty two, you know. But it was easy and they

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Speaker 1: wanted you. So when I was seventeen, they sent me

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Speaker 1: to v m I, Virginia Military Institute, the West point

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Speaker 1: of the South, and uh go to restaurants in Lexington, Virginia.

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Speaker 1: And when the waitress to take your order, she answer

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Speaker 1: back one thing. She said you want grits with that?

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Speaker 1: And we said what she said, do you want grits

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Speaker 1: with that? We said, no, grits are made with gri that.

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Speaker 2: I just couldn't understand.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't understand later.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like plent It's kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 2: what was it like the food in the military. Was

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Speaker 2: that awakening?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Can I can be very honest with you and

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Speaker 1: say some words.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah, this is a podcast. We can do it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's a podcast, we can do it. I remember

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Speaker 1: the only thing the army had a I went into

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Speaker 1: the mess hall at four Dicks, and I was shocked

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Speaker 1: by what I saw on a on a great big griddle,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe twelve feet by twelve and it was just enormous.

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Speaker 1: I saw a thousand eggs, sunny side up, and you'd pick.

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Speaker 1: You'd say, give me two, give me three, give me four,

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Speaker 1: and then that was that was eggs. And then there

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Speaker 1: was like a trash barrel clean one of course, that

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Speaker 1: had oatmeal in it, and then there was it was

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Speaker 1: just that kind of you know, so it wasn't so bad.

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Speaker 2: We're homesick.

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Speaker 1: I was homesick.

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Speaker 2: Could be so homesick? How old were you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well I was. I was nearly old enough to

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Speaker 1: be in the regular army, so I was seventeen and eighty. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: To take you out of Brooklyn, to take you out

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Speaker 2: of your hair, yeah, put you in a place.

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Speaker 1: It was a strange place. But anyway, we're all together

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Speaker 1: and we we you know, we alearned to each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you take anything away from that experience?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I did. They were They were unusually nice to us,

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Speaker 1: these cadets, these Southern cadets they had, and they taught

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Speaker 1: us never to lie. Honor is the best thing. You know.

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Speaker 2: That stayed with you, and.

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Speaker 1: Stay that stayed with me. Hardly, I hardly ever lie.

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Speaker 1: Except in show business. You're forced to liar.

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Speaker 2: Say something, to tell somebody their work is good. To

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Speaker 2: do that good. Always tell something.

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Speaker 1: You look so great today, you know that.

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Speaker 2: I said. A friend of mine once interviewed Isaiah Berlin,

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Speaker 2: you know, the philosopher said, he said, when you admire

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Speaker 2: somebody's work, you just say I loved your work. And

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Speaker 2: they said, no, no, no, that's for the work you

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Speaker 2: didn't think so much of. If you really loved their work,

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Speaker 2: you I died, you know, I was on the floor.

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Speaker 2: You know how do you how do you give I love?

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Speaker 2: Your work is for the people whose work you didn't like,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's what you say. That's fine. Yeah, But

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Speaker 2: then what happened after.

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Speaker 1: The and anyway? I went into the real army and

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Speaker 1: there I saw a thousand eggs sunny side fourth That

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Speaker 1: was Fourth Dicks, New Jersey. What you would have been,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you exactly. June forty four, I was transferred

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Speaker 1: from v M I to four Dicks. I was in

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Speaker 1: the regular army. And then there was a thing that

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Speaker 1: was on the table. It was a big round bowl

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Speaker 1: with stuff in it, and it was not at the table.

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Speaker 1: It was like where where the cooks were, you know,

390
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Speaker 1: And they had big spoons and they could slop it.

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Speaker 1: They could they put it on on some toast, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and I didn't. I never took a chance.

393
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Speaker 1: But once I said, you know, I said, the guy's

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Speaker 1: next to me, ate it. So I took a chance

395
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Speaker 1: and I got it. And I said to them what

396
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Speaker 1: is that? What this we're eating? And they said, ship

397
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: on a shingle? I said, what ship on a shingle?

398
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: It turned out to be cream beef on toast, and

399
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't so bad. But the army, you.

400
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: Know, did they send you abroad? Did you go?

401
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, eventually, But let me tell you, at breakfast and

402
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: old meals in the army, there was no short cutting.

403
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,479
Speaker 1: You You got into a lot of trouble. If someone

404
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: said passed about or past the jam or past the whatever,

405
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: you passed it. If you stopped and took some of

406
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: it and put it on your plate, that was short cutting.

407
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: And you had to leave the table in the middle

408
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: of your meal. That said your your.

409
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: Throat, So you pass and then you waved.

410
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: You passed it and waited, you waited. And then when

411
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: we were on bivouac. Bivouac means when you're you're on

412
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 1: a campsite. You pitched tents and you sleep on the ground,

413
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: and then you go through a mess line with this

414
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: stuff to eat with. It's all aluminum. And then there

415
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: were indentations for food in it. Yeah, and then they

416
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 1: always did the same thing. It was beef stew. They

417
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: put the beef stew in the deepest dish, in the dray.

418
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: Then yes, for the let's say the mashed potatoes. You figured, well,

419
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: there's a big spot next to it. It's deep. Give

420
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: that No, on the meat.

421
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: On the meat, and then mashed potatoes on the.

422
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Speaker 1: Meat on the meat, and the at the top it off,

423
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: or slice beaches on top of the mashed potato. And

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Speaker 1: there were places in each plate for sections where everybody

425
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: you can eat like a person. But they invariably put

426
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: beef stew, then meshed potatoes and then and I don't know, so.

427
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: You always cared about how food tasted.

428
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there was one big another, very big revelation

429
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Speaker 1: about food. Jeane Wilder, I could cry. Take him, He's

430
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: so sweet, sweetest invited Anne and I to dinner at

431
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: his house and in the village, at his house apartment

432
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: in the village. I forgot what we ate, but he

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00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: served wine. Up until then the only wine I had

434
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: ever really never cared for wine. I don't say it

435
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: tastes a little sour. Oh, up until then, mana Chevitzai

436
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: carmel is a sweet Jewish wine. And I tasted this wine.

437
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 2: Was it a French wine?

438
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: It was a French wine, Santa's steph, you know, And

439
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: I said, what is this? He said, it's wine. I said,

440
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: so this is wine? And he got me hooked. And

441
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: from that day I think I was twenty something whatever

442
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: for twenty six I don't know to that day to this.

443
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: If I have wine, it's always a good wine. It's

444
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 1: either a good Italian wine or a good French one,

445
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: or a good and a half of Valley wine. But he

446
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: taught me that wine wine could actually taste, really taste good,

447
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: you know.

448
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: And so how did you make the kind of voyage

449
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: from tasting wine to having one of the great sellers.

450
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: And well, up.

451
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 1: Until Blazing Saddles, I was hanging on the show business

452
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: with the skin of my teeth, not making any money.

453
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: The first movie I made was The Producers, good movie.

454
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: I won the Academy Award for the screenplay, but just

455
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: about broke even. And then the next one was The

456
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: Twelve Chairs, which was a foreign movie kind of you know,

457
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: maybe it was a good, very one of my best movies,

458
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: but alas, it didn't make a penny. So I was

459
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: thinking of going back to television, where I was doing

460
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: all right, I was making money. And then Blazing Saddles

461
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: and that was an explosion. Busted open the doors and

462
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: windows and gave me enough money to buy a house

463
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: and you know, finally pay pay for dinner and didn't

464
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: have to slip me money under the table.

465
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: And.

466
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: I was okay, blazing saddles did it? And that?

467
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: How did you educate yourself in wine? Did somebody help

468
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: you or did you?

469
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Well? Once once I tasted those wines and I looked,

470
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: I looked up. You know, I got a book. I

471
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: got a few books. Can you find a book? Take

472
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: a look, look up on the on the shelf there,

473
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: look up on the shelf. See if you find a

474
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: wine book. Yeah. So I've always got books find finding

475
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: out well.

476
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: You know, if somebody said they want to learn about wine,

477
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: would you say.

478
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: Read, I would say read. I would say read. I

479
00:28:53,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: would say read. Yeah, yeah, what book? That Bordeaux?

480
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: So then you just learned. And you visited, and you.

481
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: And I visited, you know, and I went cheval Blanc

482
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: invited me the owner of the chateau, and I spent

483
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: the weekend.

484
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: Do you still go down Do you have your wine

485
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: cellar downstairs? Do you go downstairs?

486
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: I don't drink much wine now because of my belly.

487
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: I can't drink a lot of wine.

488
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: But you can drink some.

489
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: I can drink some, Yeah, I can, I can. I

490
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: can drink some.

491
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: What do you feel about Italian line?

492
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: I love Italian mine.

493
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love a barollo.

494
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: And you know, the wines can be soft and wonderful,

495
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: they can be rough and beautiful. You know a lot

496
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: of wat.

497
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 2: It's changed now. You know, there's a new generation of

498
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: Italian winemakers whose father's werem was farmers. You know, everybody

499
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: had a vineyard and chianti or whatever. And then this

500
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 2: new generation of taking it seriously. And I actually even

501
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 2: came to California to learn more about wine.

502
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, so.

503
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: We talked about food in the army. But what I'd

504
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: like to talk to you about food and filmmaking so

505
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: or television. When you were working in film and the studios,

506
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: what would food be like? There would there be a

507
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 2: canteen where you ate? What would they call the commissary?

508
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: What would they commissary?

509
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: Commissary?

510
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: What was that mesole? Yeah, in the movie studios it's

511
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: a commissary.

512
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: And what happened? What was that like?

513
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: Well? Some some had a fox was very good, really,

514
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean fox you could get an omelet, you know,

515
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: are the other studios didn't know what an omelet was,

516
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: you know.

517
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: So tell me about a lunch. Would you stop for

518
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: lunch and would you all meet other actors from other films.

519
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: Everybody would just meet. There was that a way of

520
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: kind of meeting people. Who did you when you had

521
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: the commisary?

522
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well mostly the folks that I met, you know,

523
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: the stuff that you know Allan lad Jr. Who ran

524
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: Fox often liked to eat at my table. Yeah. And

525
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: the guy who just passed away lest this literarlier this

526
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: year with Richard Donner. Yes, I loved so much. He

527
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: was so mischievous. And uh Jay Canter, who at one

528
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: time as an agent for MCA handled Marlon Brando, Grace, Kelly,

529
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: I mean, and they all liked him because he was

530
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: soft and sweet than he was. So Jay used to

531
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: eat with.

532
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: Us, and he was on the movie set was and

533
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: he had You wouldn't.

534
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: Invite people to come to the Commissary, they'd come to

535
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: the Fox and eat with us.

536
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: Your good friend Alan Up whenever he was in town,

537
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: told me to ask you a story about Carry Grant. Yes,

538
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: what's the story about Carry Crah.

539
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: It's a good story.

540
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

541
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: I was not yet a filmmaker, but I was writing

542
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: a movie for a guy called Marvin Schwartz on the

543
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: universe a lot. So I'm writing this movie and I

544
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: look across the way and I see Grand Art g

545
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: r a n Art, and I say to Marvin Schwartz, Marvin,

546
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: what the hell is Grand Grandhart? Who works there? He says,

547
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: that's Carry Grant. That's carry Grant. That's about twenty feet away.

548
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: It's thirty feet away.

549
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: But here was this smell.

550
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: This was I can tell you exactly fifty nine. Yeah,

551
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: I think fifty nine.

552
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 2: So you're watching.

553
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm watching to see carry gran I'm watching, and sure

554
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: enough a Rolls Royce comes. A guy gets out of chauffeur.

555
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: He opens the back door, bounding two steps at a

556
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: time up up the stairs to Grandharts in a gray

557
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: it has got to be Good's, dark gray with talk stripes,

558
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: double breasted carry Grant. It was him. I said, holy shit,

559
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: carry Grant. I can't believe it. So one day soon

560
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: after that, I'm walking down about twelve thirty two, the

561
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: commissary at Universal. I hear a little click clack behind me,

562
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: and I turn around and I hear mel Brooks. I

563
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: jun't believe it. It's your mel Brooks. I said, oh

564
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: my god, it's Carry Grant. I said, how do you

565
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: know me? He said, I got your record. I just

566
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: bought your record. You cost me one thousand dollars. I

567
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: bought so many records. And then he said, wed, where

568
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: are you going? I said to the company. He said, well,

569
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: let's go together. So wow, I'm going to have lunch.

570
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: I had lunch with Carry Grant. I called my brother Bernie, Lenny, Irvy.

571
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: I called everybody, Williamsburg there. You wanted to know what

572
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: he ate? I said he had two poached eggs, Yon toast,

573
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: but I tunic, Yeah, okay. Next day, phone rings, it's

574
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: Carr Carry Yeah, it's Mal Carry Mal come lunch. Yes, well,

575
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: boom together, Me and Carry Grant. We walked down the

576
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: Wednesday was me and carry it. Thursday, Me and we're talking.

577
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: What's your favorite color? I say blue? He says yellow.

578
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: What's your favorite car? I say a buick? He says

579
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: the rolls or yeah, comes right. I don't know what

580
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: they ask him. I don't you know. I know it's

581
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: gonna call. I run out of dialogue. So the phone rings,

582
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 1: and I say to Marvin, if it's Carry Grant, I'm

583
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: not in, which is not true, but I mean it

584
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: makes makes for a great.

585
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: Did you see him ever again?

586
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: Oh?

587
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: All the time one of the carry Grant stories.

588
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: You know, I used it in my stand up stuff

589
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: and I made it funny, but actually, if I told

590
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: the truth, it was really very touching because he was

591
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: really a good act dirt, and he had made some

592
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: very beautiful, you know, intelligent soft films about love and

593
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: people and and and they have none of it. I

594
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 1: kept saying, why don't that was such a great picture?

595
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: What did they make? You said, because the money was

596
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: in in the light comedies.

597
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: So I think that you know life through food and

598
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: through your family and to your grandparents and coming here

599
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: to do this home and memories.

600
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: Food at the River Cafe still there is literally some

601
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: of the best. And and I've eaten in some really

602
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: great restaurants, you know, and I've had duck at the

603
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: Tour Doje and you know, yeah, my finest omelets with

604
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: Madame Romainne de Leon. Never split an omelet. She said,

605
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: if you split a little run, she said, you can

606
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: split a steak, but never split it on lit.

607
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: When I came here, I told Danny, remember Danny the chef,

608
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: And I said, I was coming to see you. And

609
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: he said, you know, I once made a risotto for

610
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 2: mel and he came up to the past and he said, Danny,

611
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: you made that RESULTO. You should be proud of yourself.

612
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: And it was so something, so meaningful because you didn't

613
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: say I'm proud of you, and you said you should

614
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 2: be proud of yourself. So I'd like to end this

615
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: by saying, mel Brooks, you should be proud of you.

616
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: I love you, Thank you. One last question. If food

617
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: is something to alleviate hunger, if food is something to

618
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: give someone we love, it's also comfort. There is a

619
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: kind of food that we go to, we need to

620
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: come from.

621
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: We have when I have a really outstanding meal, like

622
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: like your spaghetti have you made for my son Max?

623
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: We we just came in upon your and Max was

624
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: hungry and you said I'll make him and you may

625
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: have made him some spaghetti, and I take it was

626
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: the most delicious spaghetti in the world. When food is

627
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: really good, it serves the soul. It serves the soul.

628
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about dover soul. But when food

629
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: is really good, it serves more than just the belly

630
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,959
Speaker 1: and the hunger, and it serves the soul. And you

631
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: should be very proud of yourself. And the restaurant that

632
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: that's one of the best restaurants in the world. You bet.

633
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership

634
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: with Montclair