WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 228 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:05.520 Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.559 to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.320 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:16.239 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.440 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.000 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.880 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.360 Welcome to it could happen to hear a podcast about 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.880 things falling apart and how to put them back together again. 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.839 I am your host, Mia Wong, and today we are 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.400 going to be talking about, frankly, the largest and most 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:45.239 raconian trans healthcare band in the country and the unexpected 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.760 place that well, I don't know if unexpected is the 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.040 right word, but the ignored place that it's come from. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.640 And with me to talk about this band is David Forbes, 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.040 who is an editor and a journalist with the Trans 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.160 News Network. David, Welcome to the show. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:02.920 Always good to be here. 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.800 I once again back to my I wish I could 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:08.640 have people on the show to talk about like cool 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.520 and normal things, but you know, we get that sometimes 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:13.959 this is not one of those stories. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.520 I mean, we're trans journalists and a dying empire, you know. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:26.800 Let's yeah, So, speaking of bad things happening in dying empires, 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:28.800 do you want to take a sort of to the 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:34.920 start of this healthcare ban and what we're even talking 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.480 about here, because it's not a government healthcare band in 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:38.680 the way I think people expect. 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.880 No, And that's actually really important to all this story 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.240 because a lot of the attention in healthcare bans has 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:51.800 been on governments and occasionally hospitals like secular hospital systems 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.480 refusing to revide care because they're scared of the federal government. 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.200 So it's been a portrays a fight between governments or 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.800 a fight over stuff happening at legislatures. And to be clear, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:01.280 that's off is absolutely important. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:01.640 Yeah. 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:02.720 Yeah. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:08.000 However, this ban wasn't put in place by a legislature. 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.480 It's not any institution that people have even the facade 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.600 of an ability to really influence. On November twelfth, twenty 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:20.720 twenty five, a complete and total trans healthcare ban medications 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.840 as well as surgeries adults as well as youth was 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:28.000 put in place throughout every healthcare system run by the 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.000 Catholic Church in the US. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:36.760 Yeah, and that has not really like I don't know, 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.080 like I've talked about it, like we've mentioned it on 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.160 the show before. I don't know if I've really seen 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.680 any other like systemic, large scale coverage of it. I mean, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.519 there were like a couple of articles when it came out, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:53.160 but other than TNN, like this has been almost completely ignored, 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.320 even though it is more draconian than any any healthcare 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.320 band that has gone into effect anywhere in the country. 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:03.360 It is it's again, as you said this, Yes, this 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.840 is a total healthcare band for children and adults. 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:12.280 Yes, and for all types of trans healthcare yeah, for everything. Yeah, 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.880 And that's the thing. So I've honestly been a little 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.600 surprised by that, even old and cynical as I am. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:20.920 But TNN, as far as I know, is one of 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.440 the only outlets, including a queer and trans media I 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.799 won't say the only, but one of the only that 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.880 has done ongoing coverage on this, let alone in depth, 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.080 extensive what are the roots of this? How did we 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.960 get here? Kind of coverage. I've done two articles on it, 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.240 and those were in December, so a few weeks after 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:41.960 it passed. We kind of went in detail on what 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.480 it meant and the implications of which were and have 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.040 proven to be pretty horrifying. And also the Catholic Church 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.000 is pretty horrific history as an institution. While individual Catholics 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:52.760 have a as we'll get to, have a wide range 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.640 of beliefs, including on trans rights, the institution itself has 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:01.200 always been highly abusive, highly reactionary, an incredibly opposed to 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.600 our very existence, and that just hasn't changed as actually escalating. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.880 And then we did one just last week that was 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:13.360 on the actual impact, Like we talked to trans people 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.000 around the country who'd encountered the impact of the bishop's 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:18.680 ban as I've heard a few folks call it, and 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.559 I called a few downs myself, and what it means 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:22.640 for their lives in the ground. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.040 So I guess there's two points we should hit immediately. 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:32.520 One is sort of how this happened, like how this 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.160 band sort of came together and was voted on by 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.360 like who. And the second one is how many people 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:39.280 this affects, because I think this is the part that's 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.880 really been ignored, which is that like Catholic hospitals, it's 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.040 not like they're running like ten of these. I mean, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:46.760 it would be bad if they were running ten of these. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.640 But this is a significant part of the entire US 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:50.920 healthcare system, Yes, a massive. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.480 Part of it. Yeah, So I think I think that's 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.240 very important to kind of touch on. So this was 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.520 passed in November at the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.520 which they have regular meetings and decide policies and stuff, 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.240 and it's one of the things, and this is going 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.000 to be a recurring theme. And this is the degree 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.320 to which I think even people think of themselves as 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.880 progressive fairly left have kind of bought hook line and 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.040 sinker some of the propaganda. And it is overwhelmingly propaganda 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.440 coming out of the Catholic Church since the mid twenty 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.000 tens when Pope Francis got in. So you were seeing 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:23.760 from this conference the big news in a lot of 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.239 progressive circles was, oh, well, they made this statement against 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.840 the Trump administration immigration. But here's the thing. That was 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.400 a statement. Certainly it's better than if they supported ice, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.080 but it was a symbolic step largely. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.120 Yeah, Like they didn't even do like the very baseline thing, 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.040 which would be like excommunicating JD. 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:42.400 Vance. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.080 The thing they could do and did it because they're 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:45.160 fucking hours. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.280 Yeah, but they didn't even do that. Yes, and we're 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.120 going to get back to that and often worse than powers. Yeah. 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.400 So at this conference that got most of the headlines, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.960 but they also passed this very draconian anti trans healthcare band. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.719 It passed overwhelmingly. This was not like some narrow victory 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:01.719 by the conservative faction. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:03.240 No, it was almost everyone. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.680 It passed two oh six to seven. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Interestingly, 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.480 it was interesting listening to some of the proceedings of 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.159 this which may not be great for mental health, but 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.880 was quite informative and one of the one of the 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:20.360 bishops involved, Robert Barron, cited Pope Francis, who was held 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.640 out even sadly by some queer media as being this 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.600 step forward for queer and trans rights, which I think 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:30.720 was completely a farce, held out his rampant transphobia, which 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.640 was always very clear about, and quoted him saying that 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.600 viewed the existence of trans people, they used the far 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.760 right term gender ideology as and I quote, repugnant to 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.400 the Bible and to our tradition. You could not ask 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.839 for a more clear statement of hatred and extermination against 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.960 trans people. Yeah, I mean, that's it. This is non 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.159 institution that you know is slowly but surely getting better. 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.039 This institution that outside of the PR is getting worse 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.440 yet is digging in on doing real variactionary harm. And 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.440 so the effects of that we're pretty devastating and immediate. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.159 I mean, we'll get into some folks who dealt with 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.640 stuff later that same month due to this band in 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.960 a little bit. But like the Catholic Church's healthcare networks 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.480 are massive. By some estimates, one in six one in 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.440 seven of all people in the US go through a 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.440 Catholic health care system at some point in a given 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.960 a year. It doesn't just include a few hospitals and 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.760 includes an incredibly sprawling network of clinics and specialists and 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.000 doctors practices, plenty of them are not outwardly Catholic. Even 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.560 so people maybe going to a practice owner rum of 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:38.560 the Catholic Church and not even be aware of it. 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.760 It's also expanding, it's taking over and buying out previously 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:47.000 secular practices. And this is a multifacet problem. Goes along 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.000 with cuts in federal aid, It goes along with the 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.080 general like capitalist fervor that kind of grips secular healthcres 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.560 as well. So if they cut services, the Catholic Church 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.120 often buys them up and expands, so it affects everyone 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.360 in that everyone who deals with that, and the kind 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:09.040 of tears has never been pro trans remotely. But previously, 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.680 prior to this band, there was kind of a hodgepodge 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.160 and some local ambiguities, and there were cases that we'll 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.560 get into some of them a second, where local pro 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.680 trans Catholics are folks working at those networks could and 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.320 did provide pretty substantial trans care through like one ambiguity 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.160 or loophole or another that just ended all of it. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.520 So throughout that entire network in some states and ones 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.120 you wouldn't necessarily think, including the ones like Oregon and 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.240 Washington that are ostensibly supposed to have like pretty strict 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:43.920 trans healthcare protections, Catholic hospitals comprise like over a third 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.680 of hospital beds, and I think Washington's over forty percent, 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.120 So we're talking about of healthcare beds. We're talking about 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.720 a substantial part of the American healthcare system. Four and 0:08:55.800 --> 0:09:00.000 ten of the largest healthcare networks are Catholic. That's how extensive. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.719 If this was and now trans healthcare is banned and 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:03.960 all of them absolutely. 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:10.800 Yeah, And that's something that has an absolutely massive rolling impact, 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.800 right because again it's not just that it's like outwardly 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.000 Catholic hospitals, and it's something I think you're going to 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.680 talk about more later, but it's also like it's people 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.760 who have healthcare plans through like something that's affiliated with 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.560 the church. There are all of these ways in which 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.480 you know, suddenly just enormous numbers of people had their 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.480 healthcare taken away effectively overnight. Because the primary way that 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.000 anti trans healthcare oppression has been understood has been for 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.679 the state level. And I understand why it's like that 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.000 because like a lot of it has been coming from 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.600 the state both on this is where you get into 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.800 confusing American terminology, but both in terms of the federal 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.000 government and the state state level governments. Right, people, there's 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:57.120 been a huge focus on that, but the distribution of 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.480 the Catholic health care system is cutting through the lines 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.960 of what people sort of have previously assumed to be safe. Yes, 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.440 and this is something that is a threat to trans 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.600 people effectively everywhere. And it's compounding, as you're talking about earlier, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.520 with the sort of crisis of affordability and coverage because 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.720 a lot of these healthcare clinics and hospitals and practices 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.640 are the ones that are actually covered by insurance. Yes, 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.120 and you can switch to like their secular ones, but 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:27.960 you can't go to them because they're not covered by 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.920 your fucking insurance. They're unbelievably expensive. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.319 And this gets to a reality that goes through a 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.439 lot of our coverage, which is that trains people are 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.000 an overwhelmingly working class demographic. 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:39.520 Yeah. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.520 I don't think that gets sad enough. It doesn't get 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.160 picked even in some queer in trans media, but that 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.640 is incredibly important here. I began the second story with 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.320 an interview that we published with an interview with Beth, 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:55.400 who's a transom in the Midwest and found it nearly 0:10:55.440 --> 0:11:00.600 impossible to find healthcare outside of their networks because, like 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.440 a lot of trans people, Beth has an ACA plan, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.040 and because the secular networks are a little more expensive, 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.000 some cases a lot more expensive, the ACA plans that 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.520 are available to most trans people, you know that they 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.839 can remotely afford, don't cover healthcare there, so you kind 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.319 of have to and then they don't provide your health 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:19.880 care at all. Yeah, And in that case, this was 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.880 someone she'd been going across state borders, which she noticed 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:26.520 kind of wild to get healthcare anyway, to go to 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.840 Planned parenthood. Finally thought that she had found a practice 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.760 closer to home. Went there before the bishop's ban, like 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.640 right before it hit. They'd seemed very welcoming. She knew 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.680 other trans people that had gotten a care there before 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.040 and everything seemed great. Goes back after the ban and 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.760 it's like, oh, I'm sorry, we can't help you. And 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.840 this wasn't a practice that was obviously Catholic, you know, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.360 didn't no giant cruise fixes or anything hanging on it. Yeah, 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.760 it was just one that was, oh, it's a doctor's 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.360 office some other trans that you have gotten care there. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.079 It beats driving at least an hour each way, if 0:11:58.120 --> 0:11:58.560 not more. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:11:59.240 Yeah. 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.440 Again, when you're working glass, a two hour you know 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.520 roundtrip commute is a lot. That's you know, especially with 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.640 gas being up more like, that's a lot of money, 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:13.280 and it's strained things even further. And so she had 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.800 to go back to traveling across state. But you know, 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.120 I think some folks assume and she points out, like, oh, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.640 you just go another provider. You often can't. There's not 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:21.120 that option. 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:22.280 Yeah, there isn't one. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:24.960 Even in some fairly major cities. There is not that 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.520 option unless you have a lot more money or healthcare 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.920 through a fairly well healed employer, and a lot of us, 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.400 don't you know. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.040 This is another one of the problems here, which is 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.440 that trans people are overwhelmingly working class. It is one 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.160 of the worst demographics at poverty rate of any any 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.640 demographic group in the US. Yes, the unemployment levels are 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:47.760 like like this was like totally three back when the 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.679 economy was like working was like nineteen thirty six, great 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:51.439 depression levels. 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:56.120 Yes, incarceration rates, education rates, it's all among the poorest 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:56.560 of the poor. 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.320 Yeah, yeah, so all apocalyptically bad. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:10.319 Yeah. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.240 Then there is the issue, and this is an issue 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.720 that we've covered on the show from other lenses, which 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.600 is that like, yeah, like we're dealing with these like 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:23.840 large scale waves of hospital closures and the less hospitals 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.280 that exist in an area, and particularly in the sort 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.120 of working class areas where these people are living, right, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.480 the more those hospitals close, because those are the ones 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.120 that are closing because they're losing a whole bunch of 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.520 funding from the government. Yeah, and you know, there's like 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.200 there's a series of other economic pressures there. The more 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.400 those options disappear, the more reliant people are on on 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.080 these Catholic hospitals which have just implemented an adult healthcare band, 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.839 Like the Republicans in Congress aren't pushing that right now, No, 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:57.320 Like I cannot emphatasize how unbelievably draconian and reactionary this is. 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.640 Yes, well, and also they're doing it the same time 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:06.200 that you have major progressive media figures, legislators praising the 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:11.960 current pope for uttering some words about universal health care. 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.000 They don't practice universal health care, not just with trans people, 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:16.840 but definitely not with trans people. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.640 It's like they have the money too, like they could, yeah, 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.360 and they don't. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:21.480 Like. 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.320 There's a story in investigating this that really set out 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.200 to me, and it was from a pharmacy intern. Basically, 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.520 someone as I'm studying to be a pharmacist and did 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.560 a you know, a stint, a training stint in a 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.720 Catholic hospital right before the bishop's ban hit and said 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.680 that they were doing at least one gender affirming procedure 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.600 a week Jesus Christ a week, and that actually, you know, 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.480 this was someone who who had dealt with the situ 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.760 to the Ford and had not their great experiences and 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.520 was actually heading into this, you know, kind of this 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.360 twelve week stint, expecting to have to deal with, you know, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.760 the problems of being a transpersonal with a religious institution. 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.720 And I actually said, know that this particular hospital, the 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.920 folks who worked there were super pro trains, super accepting, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.400 they were actively providing trains care and mentioned even because 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.920 it was a moral area and that's that sat alone, 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.560 that was you know, a gender firming care procedure most weeks. 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.000 Should be a reminder that a lot of trains people 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.040 also don't live in major cities. They live in smaller cities, 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.920 They live in small towns, rural areas, even by a mile. Actually, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.720 the region of the US with the largest trans population 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.160 is the South, and the Midwest is very closely tied 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.040 with the West, which includes the West Coast. Per second, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.320 so they mentioned that there's this was a sentiments of 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.800 the staff like, look, if you're in La Okay, there's 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:41.480 a bunch of Catholic hostles with a bunch of other 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.840 ones too. So the people seeking out Catholic hospitals may 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.280 be a bit more conservative there are more likely to 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.440 be other alternatives now to healthcare access can be a 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.840 problem there too, But in our area, the kind of 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.040 staff had a sense, look, if we don't do it, 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.360 no one else will. Yeah, and so they didn't be 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.200 pretty pro trains. The loophole they used the ambiguit I 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.040 guess the art we're gonna use was if an ensure 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.400 secular or otherwise said hey, this procedure is necessary, they 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.760 didn't question it. And under the previous pre bishops band situation, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.760 there was kind of that bit of that leeway. This 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.800 is an example of you know, some of them Catholic 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.760 pro trans folks in a royal area actually doing some 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.000 real good and then because they kind of maneuvered in 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:25.560 this gray area and this band just completely into that. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:26.040 Yeah. 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.240 They also described because they actually had top surgery scheduled 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.600 at this same hospital and the band hit and they're 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.800 very thankful to the doctor who did you know, surgeries 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.920 at that hospital, who intentionally just kind of kept them 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:39.440 on the schedule. 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:40.840 Incredibly incredible. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.280 Yeah, but like we need way more of that. But 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.880 also it just got a lot more difficult and a 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.160 lot more hurdles were placed in the way of that. 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.960 So like what was happening just got cut off. 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:52.240 Yeah, And this is. 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.240 Also a really a really stificant issue because trans healthcare 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.160 is already even before this, you know, like the wait 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.240 list for think things like top sers and things like 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.000 bottom surgery or sometimes years long, even in places that 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.359 have like quote unquote like good healthcare, right like even 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.840 in places like Oregon or like yeah, you know, in 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.040 places like LA, Like you're dealing with multi year wait 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.040 lists to get these procedures, and suddenly like a seventh 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.520 of all the people doing this are just gone, and 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.600 that just contributes even if you can get. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.680 And someplace is half yeah. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.639 Yeah, And the number of people who do these procedures 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:29.880 is so small that if you are looking to get 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.000 these procedures, like you can talk to the trans people 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.320 in your area and they will know every single doctor 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.640 who does it, right, Yes, because there's like three maybe 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.720 if you're lucky, there's like three. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.720 Usually there's like one, like even on the HRT front 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.600 sometimes and I can speak from experience on this, you know, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.719 it's often kind of an icebreaker of like, oh, you 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.080 know which medical practice is giving you your hr T 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.320 down because there's like two maybe three if you're lucky. Yep, 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.440 and that's might be for a whole region. Yeah, and 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.200 you know, a lot of transform maybe even most live 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.399 outside of what you think of the few, you know, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.720 major metropolis. But also there was a while I was 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.879 looking into this, there was a case in twenty seventeen, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.280 is before the bishop's ban, where at Catholic Hospital in California, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.800 which on paper at least has fairly strong trans healthcare 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:22.000 protections for the US, where a priest with no medical 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:26.199 experience comes in last minute, veto's the top surgery for 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.399 a transman, and they kick him out on the streets, 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.280 still on the drugs, the pre surgery drug. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.840 What the fuck Jesus Christ. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.119 He sued them rightly. Yeah, like you know, this is 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.840 this is a hospital in your California. We could go 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.000 into it a little bit in the story. So like 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.959 that was happening before, but that's not everywhere. Yeah, and 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.600 the few cases like the hospital that we mentioned, where 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.800 there were folks working around that to still provide some healthcare, 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.160 that's probably gone round. I would say it's almost certainly 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.560 gone less. Folks are really just breaking the rules, which 0:18:58.640 --> 0:18:59.080 they should. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.919 Yeah, but this is sort of the systemic problem with 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.840 having the church hierarchy having control over these healthcare institutions, 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.480 which is that even if you are just like in 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.879 the institution, trying to do good and you believe on 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:14.480 the right thing, and you're trying to do the right thing, 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:20.880 it doesn't matter, yeah, because suddenly just the hammer can 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.119 come down on you from above, and even if you 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.040 keep doing it right, there's always just the risk that 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:26.880 they're just going to fire you all. 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.240 At best, it is highly precarious. 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.159 Yeah, And it's this really kind of I don't know, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:37.960 this kind of like brutal demonstration of the reality that 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.080 in a hierarchical institution, it kind of doesn't matter what 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.320 the people on the bottom believe, because at the stroke 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.480 of a pen, two hundred reactionaries who run your fucking 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.040 institution can just come in and be like, no, fuck you, 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:51.320 none of you get healthcare. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:52.119 Yeah. 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.760 Well, and not just that, but run a substantial amount 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:56.720 of the entire American health care system. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:57.080 Yeah. 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.600 Yeah, I mean, and this is actually why, and this 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.200 is a a larger factor. I have survived the literal 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.679 fundamentalist Christian violence when I was when I was younger, 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.480 and I think this is actually something we will probably 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:10.639 get into it a little bit like I've ever gotten 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.320 the aversion, especially from queer and trans organizations, to criticize 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.880 their distitutions. And didn't always used to be this way, 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.879 but it's definitely been this way, including on this issue, 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.920 because you know, you will look in vain for a 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.840 major national organization that's like taking the Catholic Church and 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:31.240 task go for this, yeah once with millions dollars of budgets, 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.080 you know, apparently their higher ups they are too busy, 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.160 you know, taking first class flights and raking in nearly 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:41.000 a million dollars a year, while trans people can't find jobs, 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.000 you know. But like, yeah, so I've never gotten the 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.080 aversion because for a lot of us on the ground, 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:48.960 for a lot of us, who are you know, among 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.760 the many, many many trans people that are working class 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.719 that live outside some of the like you know, handful 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.479 metropoli that we often get depicted as exclusively living in 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.280 fundamentals violence, you know, to be and to be clear 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.400 from plenty of like Protestant evangelicals as well. Yeah, never 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.920 stopped it never stopped being a very serious and real threat. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:11.679 Their numbers have gone down since the nineties, you know, 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.159 in the early two thousands. Yeah, but it's never stopped 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.080 being something you really have to have to account for, 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.080 whether it's institutional. Even if it's totally illegal, they'll still 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:25.199 do it like it in California, or literal like street violence, 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.680 literally like people attacking you with weapons. So I think 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.040 that's definitely a factor in all this, and I think 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.800 it's a sad factor in why folks haven't heard about it. Yeah, 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.400 and you know, in some of the stuff I've talked 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:39.240 about before on the show and elsewhere, I've mentioned that 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.040 I think that whatever in the intent behind it, the 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:44.520 gay ink, as it were, the structure of you know, 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.040 these larger nonprofits which even send down like the local 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.800 and state level at some points, and the culture from 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:52.359 them that kind of is more satisfy and more so 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:56.679 much just kind of dictates a lot of like official 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.680 at least queer in trans politics has been a disaster failure. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.080 And I think that's even you know, even more apparent. 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.960 Here this is again the largest motorconian trains healthcare in 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.560 the US. It's already happened, already in place, and you 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.399 will look in vain for any organizing from the issuations 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.240 they're supposed to protect trains rights against it Yeah, there 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.080 aren't like big lawsuits being filed. There's not like you know, 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.959 Expass being run. They have far more resources than they are, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.720 you know, worker run newsroom would do a lot with 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.560 what we have. We encourage people to support us, but 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.240 like they have a lot more resources to make those 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.159 things a large national issue. They have chosen not to, 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.480 and a lot of people are going to suffer for that, 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:35.520 are suffering for that. 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.119 Yeah, and I should mention too on an actual policy level, 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.400 like a full scale healthcare ban on adult trans healthcare 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.200 is like hideously unpopular. Like there's a reason that Republicans 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:50.720 haven't done it, Yeah, right, because it's not popular. So 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.679 this is this is a winning issue, yes, right, And 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.800 they won't fucking take up the fight because they're too. 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:00.000 Busy glazing the papacite. Not just them, I mean progress 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.639 of us in general are are lately in the papacy 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:03.320 way too much. 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.600 Yeah, And it's just this issue that trickles down to 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:10.120 to like the fact that the SBC, right, the Southern 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:11.840 Baptist Convention, the fact that there hasn't been a sort 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.879 of broadscale offensive against them, you know, even though they've been. 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.080 Like drawing some massive problem. 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:18.159 Yeah, yeah, driving those like all of this ship for 0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:20.399 fucking ages, and they were like, you know, like there 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:22.520 was a point, like a couple of years ago where 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.280 they were genuinely seriously weakened by their series of like 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.840 eve general abuse scandals. Yes, and like even though like 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.399 these are like the church groups that are also backing 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:37.240 the healthcare bands on the legislative level, there's no sort 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:41.240 of political will to actually go to war with the 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.240 right wing churches that are doing this stuff. 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.840 Well, so, any this is an interesting difference, and it 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.520 relates to what we're just talking about. The sentiments I 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:53.359 hear among trans folks in the ground, you know, working 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.119 class trains folks. It's pretty anti clerical, like to put it, 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:01.960 to put it mildly, it tends to be more gentry types, 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:05.119 especially ones more in Scotts's institutions or like you know, 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.600 official political culture, the gang stuff we've been mentioning that 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:10.720 have more of this aversion. And I will have to 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:14.080 say it wasn't always this way. I am old enough 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:19.920 to remember when queer organizing taking aim at mocking, even 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:24.480 go directly going the attack against suing definitely religious institutions 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:28.680 was a pretty common fixture a prominent example, and I 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:31.080 deal with this in the earlier piece as well as 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:34.359 touching on the more recent one was act UPS nineteen 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.760 eighty nine stopped the Church Action, which you imagine a 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.439 queer or doing an action with that title today, in 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:44.160 which case they militantly disrupted services to Saint Patrick's Cathedral 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.119 in New York because of the ridiculous homophobia of the 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:51.120 Catholic Church. That's werell in the ation asides. Yeah, and 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:53.320 if there's some video of this that we that we 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:56.000 linked in that first story from act UPS archives, and 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.159 I've had the signs hilarious, but there's stuff that you 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:03.040 would immediately see tone placing about even from some trans 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:05.760 queer and trans media today. Yeah, you know, oh, we 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:09.000 shouldn't alienate normies. All this, all that, and no, hey, 0:25:09.000 --> 0:25:11.240 there was a big backlash of the time, a huge one. 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:13.800 The President condemned it, you know, the federal officials condemned it, 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:16.560 the Congress critics condemned it. You know, there was this 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.320 giant attack. This was unacceptable beyond the pale. It also 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:24.159 worked the Catholics did start backing off their stances because 0:25:24.160 --> 0:25:27.520 they didn't want to be attacked more. And I think 0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.320 it's a good example that stop looking at the damn 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.200 poles and just fight them. Yeah, you know, it's generally 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.440 a much better approach. And I think I have to say, 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:39.800 I think part of this, as you've seen, especially with 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.399 how you know, the co option of some of the 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:45.520 results of equal marriage, when you saw after that era 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:48.800 gay and groups use that to become like the predominant 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:51.840 force and keep a lot of other organizing and queer 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:56.200 and transactivism. You saw this backing away from ever criticizing 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.399 religious institutions. I mean, the advocate named Pope Francis in 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:01.120 twenty thirteen their person of the Year. 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:03.639 Yeah, and like this is the guy who said that 0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:05.840 she said that gender ideology is more dangerous to the 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:07.199 world than nuclear weapons. 0:26:07.520 --> 0:26:20.480 Yes again Yeah, individual Catholics of their own sets of 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:24.080 beliefs and differ. Some are very obviously pro trans, but 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.880 like the institution is very unequivocal on this. It has 0:26:27.960 --> 0:26:31.200 never stopped being that. Yeah, and long time journalist covering 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:33.720 the Catholic Church, you know, caution that. Look, the term 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.600 they used was changing the tone but keeping the same 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:41.160 music for Francis's papacy. Yeah, and Leo is very much 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:42.600 in that now. I think that actually opens up a 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:46.080 weakness because with the you know, revelation of the horrific 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:49.040 levels of serial child abuse within the Catholic Church, with 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:53.200 the you know, atrocities on massive scales involvement indigenous genocide, 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:55.760 with the attacks in the eighties and ninety and two 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.560 thousands about their homophobia and the role in the agent 0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:01.119 asides as well, like there was actually starting to be 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.320 this giant institution despite how higherarchical and an accountablies were 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.000 starting to be on the back foot. And you know, 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:08.679 in some places like Ireland, this has led to its 0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:13.720 power numbers being like taking a massive hit. So there 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:18.240 was a shift, like any institution, to give a hinder face. 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.080 And the depressing thing is that among a lot of 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:24.240 people should know better, it's largely worked. Yeah, and I 0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:26.560 really wish it would be less taken it by symbolism. 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:30.920 It's also like the facto with theocrisy, because one of 0:27:30.920 --> 0:27:34.000 the people we talked to, Allison, would try to get 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:37.120 testoster and right off the bishop's ban they're not Catholic, 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:41.200 their doctor isn't Catholic, their pharmacy is not Catholic. Yeah, 0:27:41.840 --> 0:27:44.120 so you'd think, okay, well you should be able to no, no, no. 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:49.480 The insurance that their spouse had was technically provided through 0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:52.680 a Catholic health care network, so it took them months 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:54.639 before they finally got the test saster or not, and 0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:56.320 so now they have to pay out a pocket for it. 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:58.800 They can for the time being, but for working class 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.040 trains people, that's one more costs on top of everything else, 0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:05.399 and eventually those are costs you often can't bear. So 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:06.760 like that, that's the reality. 0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:11.560 Yeah, and the realities is unaccountable the deocratic rule. Yeah, 0:28:11.760 --> 0:28:13.760 in areas where it's not supposed to be. 0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:17.600 Happening exactly well, and potentially any area you know, if 0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:22.120 you have a secular practice today delivers you HRT no issue. 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:26.480 It could get bought out by one of these networks tomorrow. Yep. 0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:29.440 Why the fuck do these religious institutions have the ability 0:28:29.480 --> 0:28:31.080 to influence like healthcare at all? 0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:31.879 Yeah? 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:35.959 Right, It's something you would think would be not a 0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:40.840 place where someone else's religion can suddenly yeah, and not 0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:45.440 even like that person's religion. It's like the religious hierarchy 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:48.080 of a church should not be able to dictate whether 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:52.040 someone gets healthcare. And yet yeah, this goes well beyond 0:28:52.080 --> 0:28:55.440 the you know, even supposed power in a secular side 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:57.840 that you know, religiouship have all we can you know, 0:28:57.880 --> 0:29:00.600 they can make this pronouncement that applies to those who 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:04.640 believe in that religion or that specific denomination or institution 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.120 or whatever. Now this is affecting plenty of people who 0:29:07.240 --> 0:29:10.720 have never set foot in a Catholic church, Yeah, who 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.560 are remotely Catholic. Even the providers that they're going to 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:14.360 aren't Catholic. 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.480 And this is still happening because that's the kind of 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:21.120 sway and power they have, and it's not been seriously challenged, 0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:23.440 including by the liberals and even to me leftists and 0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:25.640 given to the Southern Baptis Convention earlier. It isn't just 0:29:25.720 --> 0:29:29.600 the Catholic Church, but because of the sheer scale and 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:34.280 the centralized nature of its hierarchy, they are certainly probably 0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:37.400 the single most damaging institution on this front. The SBC 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:40.320 is a problem. While they operate on far too vast 0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:42.080 a scale, they don't operate in the scale the Catholic 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:42.600 Church does. 0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:46.480 Yeah, this is you know fundamentally, like part of the 0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:50.320 issue here is just is just there's a I don't 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:52.800 know if advantage is the right term here, but like 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:57.960 the centralization of the Catholic Church relative to like the 0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:01.520 sort of divided Protestants and nominations allows them to wield 0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:06.280 power like collectively in a way that is a lot 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:08.400 harder for something like the SBC where just like it 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:11.480 just doesn't have the scale that like that that the 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.000 Church does and like that the Catholic Church doesn't. Because 0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:18.240 the Catholic Church is this large, is able to just 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:21.960 buy out this much of the hospital system. And then 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:25.280 because of the of the top down structures where the 0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:27.160 bishops can just go and and vote and do and 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:34.160 implement this stuff. It's a really really really significant problem. Yes, 0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:36.680 that is just not being dealt with. This is not 0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:39.560 a problem that you can just like snap your fingers 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.760 and solve by like running stuff through a state legislature. 0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:45.600 Like you actually have to go after the institution. You 0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:47.600 have to fight them on their ground. 0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.400 Yes, And also this is you know, it's it's kind 0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:53.360 of what I ended the December piece with. But also 0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:55.959 it's something I have sized in the second one. Anyone 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.520 who wants any kind of liberatory future, regardless of whatever 0:30:58.560 --> 0:31:01.800 their personal beliefs are, tight clericalism has to be part 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:04.840 of it. It's not the same against being it's every 0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.000 individual of a certain religion. It is specifically against this 0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:12.280 kind of theocratic hierarchy and its power over people's lives. 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:15.720 You do not get to anything remotely liberatory without directly 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:19.440 attacking and challenging that. And for too long that struggle 0:31:19.480 --> 0:31:26.120 has largely been abandoned and not shockingly fundamentalist of various varieties, 0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:28.840 and let's be honest, primarily Christian fundamentalists have played a 0:31:28.960 --> 0:31:34.120 major role in American fascism and in stripping rights from 0:31:34.280 --> 0:31:37.240 entire groups. And it's interesting because you mentioned the Council 0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:39.800 bishop beside this, but that's true, but he gets even 0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:45.040 more centralized than that, the progressive pope that's getting praised for, 0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:48.280 you know, condemning the Iran war, and it's always condemning 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:50.760 or statements or this or that. Yeah, the Catholic Church 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.320 is still kind of an absolute theocratic monarchy in some ways. 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:55.520 You know, you could just say, hey, American bishops, don't 0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:57.480 do that, like I'm overruling you. You do have to 0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:00.920 provide trans health care under whatever circumstances are, regually all 0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:03.600 of them. He's chosen not to. And if you look 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:06.880 at his history of transphobia before he became pope. Ye, 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:08.600 it's not particularly surprising. 0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:13.640 Yeah. I think sort of like the very baseline kind 0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:18.440 of anti clerical stance here is like the moment your 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:21.520 religion is able to dictate the behavior of people who 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:24.600 are outside of it. Yes, you have crossed the line 0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:29.200 into sort of like into this kind of clerical rule 0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:32.680 in ways that I think everyone should be like deeply 0:32:32.720 --> 0:32:33.400 opposed to. 0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:39.520 Yes, like universally that should be regarded as unacceptable and oppressive. 0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:43.040 Yeah. And this is what we're dealing with here, which 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:45.520 is that when there isn't this you know, because like 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:47.520 we talk a lot about sort of the separation of 0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:49.520 church and state, which has always been kind of a 0:32:49.600 --> 0:32:51.760 joke in the US to like a broad extent, right, 0:32:51.800 --> 0:32:55.600 But like you know, there are like other spheres that 0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:58.440 exist in our lives, right there's you know, like they're 0:32:58.440 --> 0:33:00.200 econ always here is there a health scarce sphere? They 0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:03.440 were like social spheares, And you know, like the fact 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.080 that a church can just be like no, fuck you 0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:09.040 and cut off unbelievable numbers of trans people from their 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.200 healthcare in a way that even the sort of like 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:18.000 right wing theocrats in office wouldn't be able to do. Yes, 0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:22.000 is something that has to be has to be a 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:24.280 posed because fuck. 0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:27.200 That it does. And I will add while you know, 0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:29.920 obviously and we deal with some of the story of 0:33:30.000 --> 0:33:33.240 you know, an example of pro trains folks at a 0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.000 Catholic hospital in the Cafe hospital, overwhelmingly the staff were 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:40.640 pro trans. Yeah, but I do think and polls, to 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:43.400 the extent that they matter, you know, do show repeatedly 0:33:43.560 --> 0:33:47.480 that opinion within Catholics themselves eventually is pretty split on this. 0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:50.160 There are the substantial number who are pro trains right, 0:33:50.200 --> 0:33:52.760 some pro trans healthcare. I also have to say though 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:55.680 that at this point I think there is a specific 0:33:55.760 --> 0:34:00.640 obligation among them to speak up and act against this loudly. 0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:04.440 And you know, I think the example of the doctor 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:07.520 who who when people I interviewed, you know, get around 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:11.600 the band to get top surgery. I think that's the minimum, honestly, 0:34:11.840 --> 0:34:15.680 like like, okay, if you support trains rights, start here, 0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:20.160 because I think pressure from that quarter, as we've seen, 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.160 hits even harder on some of these institutions, you know, 0:34:24.280 --> 0:34:27.840 because while they claimed, you know, be this above everything 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:32.440 kind of hierarchy, we have seen worries about losing numbers 0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:36.040 of Catholics being involved in the church has driven their 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.680 decisions before, and more pressure will drive them again potentially, 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:43.000 you know, like, yeah, I think it will. Like what 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:46.839 we've seen pretty clearly just in my lifetime is when 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:49.920 these institutions are under attack, when folks go on the 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:54.680 offensive against them culturally, you know, socially with direct militon 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:58.719 organizing like Act UP did, then we see some of 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:02.400 our rights and liberation advance shockingly quickly in some cases 0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:05.520 compared to where they were. And when that is relaxed on, 0:35:05.600 --> 0:35:08.920 when they are given space to gather power and plan 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:15.239 and go back on the attack, then things get a 0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:18.960 lot worse very quickly. Yeah, this can be fought. The 0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.799 first part of fighting it is to talk about it, 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:23.680 to be vocal about, to be loud, and to talk 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:25.839 about how it is unacceptable. I think, frankly, a lot 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:27.400 of pressure can also be exerted on some of these 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.880 gay ink works, like if they want any donations or 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:32.880 any support, I don't think they should get a lot 0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:34.879 of nation supporting. I think there's better places to put it. 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:37.359 But if they don't want to become pariazed and queer 0:35:37.400 --> 0:35:39.239 in trans communities, that needs to be a message like 0:35:39.280 --> 0:35:40.839 you need to fight this. You need to fight this hard, 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:43.799 need to fight this now, because to do otherwise, I 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:47.000 think it's just an act of unforgivable cowardice and treaties 0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:49.319 and new more time to kind of use a metaphor, Yeah, 0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:51.759 but you know, we always end our pieces of T 0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:55.359 ANDN because I think, I mean, there was a joke 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.400 about it I saw recently of like it is the 0:35:57.440 --> 0:36:01.640 sacred role of trans journalism to you know, unnecessarily scared 0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:04.520 trans people beyond all measure. Yeah, and I think people 0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:07.000 should take that to heart that among like trans folks, 0:36:07.000 --> 0:36:09.640 some trans journalism is getting that. And I've termed these 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:13.480 pieces of panic slop when they're badly sourced exaggerate some things. 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:17.920 Yeah. Yeah, the day we're recording this, uh, the episode 0:36:17.920 --> 0:36:20.000 came out. So I don't know if like if like 0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:22.759 some other unhinged thing has happened between now and then, 0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:24.759 and you're like, wow, why are you not mentioning like 0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:27.480 the public max executions of trans people or some shit 0:36:27.560 --> 0:36:29.760 like I don't not just like paddicts up, Like that's 0:36:29.840 --> 0:36:31.920 why because this is this is being recorded on the 0:36:32.000 --> 0:36:36.399 day in which our episode about this dropped. But yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:37.720 like this panic slop shit. 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:39.960 Is just like, yeah, but it's you know, it's become 0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:43.680 a real problem in some quarters. And yeah, I you know, 0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:46.719 I think kind of it's to be a nerd, like 0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:50.839 any reckoning with conflict, and even like the warfare level 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:52.920 of conflict is always like you have to have acurate information, 0:36:52.920 --> 0:36:54.880 you know what actually is a threat, what is not. 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:59.399 And I think communities under fire, which we're all part of, yeah, 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:02.200 have to have that even more so, and especially now. 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:05.360 So I tried to exaggerate the very real threats and 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:08.280 the Catholics band is definitely one of them. But also 0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:11.040 like people have fought this stuff. They fought the stuff 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:13.360 even when the odds looked more dire. It can be 0:37:13.400 --> 0:37:16.120 fought again, Yeah, like d'reing the age shed of side exactly. 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:18.680 They fought them in one, yeah exactly, and it can 0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:20.880 be fought against again and one. But it has to 0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:22.600 be fought and has to be fought hard. 0:37:22.719 --> 0:37:25.160 Yeah. But and I think I think the last thing 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:26.520 I want to mention this is something I say a 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:29.800 lot with union organizing, but like the people in Act 0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:34.719 Up who went and fought are just you Yeah, there's 0:37:34.760 --> 0:37:38.120 nothing like special about them. They were just people who 0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:40.879 were forced to act and who took up the fight 0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:41.520 and did it. 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:45.239 Yeah, And I think that actually kind of can can't 0:37:45.280 --> 0:37:47.520 transmit something that has been seen as a bad trend 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:50.080 within trans communities. I don't think that always is of 0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.880 like all transmunities like crucify their heroes too much. They 0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:55.160 pillary people too much. In a lot of cases, if 0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:57.640 it's a public figure the Oxer McBride, it has done 0:37:57.680 --> 0:38:01.120 some some really terrible stuff. They're acting out of frankly 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:04.719 a just sense of grievance. But also I think there 0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:08.120 should be a shift away from individual figures on pedestals, 0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:10.560 from looking to like a set of leaders, you know, 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:13.359 guide everyone else. I think we're at our strongest when 0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:16.400 the organizing is coming from everywhere, the fight is coming 0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:20.640 from everywhere. It's not singular figures. And honestly, I think 0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:23.200 pedestals are bad for everyone involved. But you know, and 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:26.160 doesn't exact what you're saying, Like people can start acting now, 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:28.000 they don't need to, you know. Certainly, I think it's 0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:31.040 good to pressure large organizations and figures with power, partly 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:32.879 because I think give people's sense of empowerment as well 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:36.000 as occasionally fear works and they can see and you know, 0:38:36.040 --> 0:38:39.000 something improves a little bit, or something worse as avoided, 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:43.359 but also just for like it's just us, y'all, you know, like, yeah, 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:45.120 that's what's going to have to solve this. 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:49.480 And that is why we start. I don't know, I 0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:51.279 don't have a percentage on the episodes that we start 0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:54.360 with things falling apart, but also putting them back together 0:38:54.400 --> 0:38:57.719 again because we can and we can make it better. 0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:01.920 They're building something better entirely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, And on 0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:05.600 that note, if people want to support trans News Network, 0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:08.120 they can find out how to do so at Transnews 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:13.040 dot Network. We are a worker run nonprofit and kind 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:16.040 of trying to set a model for trans media that's 0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:19.160 in depth and hard hitting and unrepentently radical, but that 0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:22.720 also is you know, goes in depth and investigates stuff 0:39:22.760 --> 0:39:26.040 and gives an accurate picture of what's going on, the 0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:27.640 threats but also real victories. 0:39:28.040 --> 0:39:31.719 Yeah, and the best reporting on us is going to 0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:34.920 be done by us. Yes, so you can help make 0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:38.400 the possible. We appreciate any support we get. We do 0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:42.160 a stunning amount on a fairly shoe string budget. Yeah, 0:39:42.200 --> 0:39:42.800 it's unreal. 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:47.520 Well, I appreciate that comple of it, but yeah, It's 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:50.600 an awesome crew of people. I am incredibly fortunate to 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.080 work with all of them. Yeah, and actually shout out 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:55.600 to my head Myralizene, who did a great job of 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:59.000 going through this piece and also has done some incredible coverage. 0:39:59.000 --> 0:40:01.360 But yeah, everyone who worked ten and I'm really fortunate 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:03.920 to work with. And you know, this is trying to 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:06.920 set kind of an alternative in trans journalism that is 0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:09.239 worker run and is underpent to hell. 0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:13.560 Yeah, you too can go to war with the bureaucrats 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.480 and the theocrats and the politicians who are trying to 0:40:16.480 --> 0:40:17.360 destroy your life. 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:34.719 Indeed, woman life freedom. Such was the slogan of the 0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:38.399 women's movement considered key to the project of the Democratic 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:44.000 Autuonamous Administration of North and East Syria or soon as Rajafa. 0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:50.400 Though originating in the Kurdish liberation struggle, the project quickly 0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:56.680 became polyethnic Syrians, Arabs, Armenians, Czds and other groups involved 0:40:56.760 --> 0:40:59.839 in that project, and in fact, the internationally recognized name 0:40:59.920 --> 0:41:02.600 or Java has fallen out of use by the project's 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:07.160 administration in an effort to de ethnicize the project. I'm 0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:10.360 going to keep using Rejava simply because it's quicker to 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:17.200 say than DAA nes so then yes or any other combination, 0:41:17.880 --> 0:41:21.960 but just wanted to put that disclaimer of in the beginning. 0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:24.920 So in the midst of the Syrian Civil War, the 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:28.799 region gained its de facto autonomy in twenty twelve and 0:41:28.960 --> 0:41:32.759 pursued a somewhat unique political experiment for crassroots governance and 0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:37.920 social legal reforms that have attracted significant international fever and support. 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:43.120 Do not recognize internationally as autonomous except by the Catalan 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:47.480 Parliament for obvious reasons. For the past decade plus, the 0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:50.200 people in the region have fought fiercely for independence from 0:41:50.360 --> 0:41:55.680 ISIS patriarchy, Turkish incursions, and other Syrian opposition groups, but 0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:59.200 recent events led to the newly minted Assyrian government having 0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:04.480 seriously jeopardized the autonomy of the project. Welcome, take it 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:08.759 happen here. I'm Andrew's age also Androism on YouTube and 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:10.040 I'm joined once again. 0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:11.319 It's me. 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.799 It's James, Yes, and I had to talk to you 0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:16.799 about this because I know that you have contacts there, 0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:20.040 you have experience with that project, with the people involved, 0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:23.040 and yeah, we're here to discuss the feat of Rajava. 0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:26.000 Yeah, I'm always excited to talk about Rajava and I 0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:30.200 think it's super important that we talk about it right now, Like, yeah, 0:42:30.239 --> 0:42:33.520 there's a lot of bad stuff happening currently, but this 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:37.399 is really bad. Like in Rajava, we had the opportunity 0:42:37.480 --> 0:42:43.120 to see people living without gods or masters, people building 0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:47.200 democracy without the state. We had the opportunity to and 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:49.960 we have the opportunity, right, So Rashava's not gone, But 0:42:50.040 --> 0:42:53.080 like anarchism didn't have to be like an ideological construct 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:56.120 that only exists in our little punk hows it's it 0:42:56.200 --> 0:42:59.760 existed in it in an area where millions of people lived. 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:02.879 And yes, but we should talk about how we can 0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:05.120 be in solidarity with him in this very difficult time 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:06.160 right right. 0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:08.880 In fact, as we're on that topic, I think it's 0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:12.360 useful to have a brief explanation of the history and 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.879 ideology behind the Java project before we talk about what's 0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:21.120 happened most recently. Yeah, So in brief, the project really 0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:26.640 began into Oky, where the Kurdistan Workers Party or PKK 0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:30.239 was banned and some of its supporters moved to Syria 0:43:30.360 --> 0:43:33.920 and founded the Democratic Union Party or PYD. Now this 0:43:34.000 --> 0:43:37.120 party shared an ideological foundation with the PKK and its 0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:41.400 founder Abdullah o Chilan, with the ideology of democratic confederalism, 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:45.160 which alex plain in a second Brajava came into being 0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:49.239 following the Arab Spring of twenty eleven as various factions 0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:52.480 of Syrians rose up against President Bashar al Asad, and 0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:56.040 in such a climate of conflict, ISIS rose to prominence 0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:58.799 to threaten the region as a whole. So Alasad was 0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:01.920 dealing with other opposition group in Damascus, he withdrew forces 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:05.120 from North Syria, which left the region vulnerable to ISIS 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.200 and to key Kurdish groups in North Syria. Then formed 0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:11.040 the Kurdish National Council to secure the area, but after 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.319 an ideological split, the project of Rajava would emerge as 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:18.480 a polyethnic polity composed of the cantons of Afrin, Jazira, 0:44:18.640 --> 0:44:22.800 and Kubani. The PID operates Java within a political coalition 0:44:22.960 --> 0:44:27.239 called the Syrian Democratic Council or SDC. The IPG or 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:30.880 People's Defense Units and the YPG or Women's Defense Units 0:44:30.880 --> 0:44:34.319 are the paramilitaries forming the bulk of the political assemblies 0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:38.240 and military coalition, which is called the Syrian Democratic Forces 0:44:38.640 --> 0:44:41.799 or SDF. I know, it's a lot of acronyms being 0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:42.759 thrown at you at once. 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:47.279 Yeah's alphabet too. I think until relatively recently, the bulk 0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:51.200 of the sdf's forces were Arab. You have ideological groups 0:44:51.200 --> 0:44:54.240 that are allied, right than Northern Democratic Front JI Shelter 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:57.160 War at one point, and then you have these groups 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:01.360 which are more tribally based. Those groups had allied to 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:04.719 the SDF to fight the Islamic State, right, Yes, yeah, 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:07.520 they always want to push back on it being a majority, 0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:10.200 but it's now. But that's that's that's a creation of 0:45:10.200 --> 0:45:12.960 the last eight weeks. 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:16.720 Right, Okay. I remember reading that they were the WIPEPG 0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:19.600 were forming a good chunk of the SDF. I suppose 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:22.680 that was more recent information that I had seen then. 0:45:23.239 --> 0:45:25.360 Yeah, I think it probably would have been or like 0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:29.560 you will see that published in broadsheet newspapers and have 0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:32.600 done for decades. Like it just wrong. But there was 0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:36.399 this tendency in the I guess the Western press, right, 0:45:36.920 --> 0:45:39.919 and some of this is somewhat orientalist in a way, 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:43.000 Like they referred to the SDF as the Kurds because 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:47.000 Kurds were somehow seen as closer to European people than Arabs, 0:45:47.600 --> 0:45:50.440 and like it attempted to sort of I guess, to 0:45:50.480 --> 0:45:53.319 make it more palatable to an audience. 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:56.640 Right, a kind of a racial elevation of some kind. 0:45:56.960 --> 0:45:59.919 Yeah, and I think the friends, we can talk about 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:03.319 friends versus whatever else. Slater, but would push back on that. 0:46:04.560 --> 0:46:07.200 They would tell you the SDF was majority Arabs certainly 0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:08.960 at the time it fort the Islamic state, and of 0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:13.400 course there were Assyrians and Armenians and your CDs and 0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:15.320 international volunteers as well. 0:46:15.680 --> 0:46:19.320 For sure. For sure. So you had these Syrian Democratic 0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:23.560 Councils or the STC, led primarily by the PID right. 0:46:24.600 --> 0:46:26.440 They were taking on the task of both fights and 0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:30.520 the Islamists while engaged in an ideological project to bring 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:36.120 democratic confederalism into practice in North Syria. So, democratic confederalism 0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:40.520 is a transitional political movement that tries to move beyond 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:45.480 the nation state by refusing to seize state power. Instead 0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:50.200 of organizing society through the state, they seek to organize 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:54.319 society through local assemblies that manage their own affairs while 0:46:54.360 --> 0:47:00.200 coordinating action through confederations. Democratic and federalism emphasizes pluralism, more 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:05.520 nationalism and secularism, or for religious government and restorative justice, 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:12.400 gender liberation, ecological sustainability, cooperative and communal economic forms. Democratic 0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:17.040 and feralism was seen as is seen as a pragmatic 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:21.560 way of building collective self organization within the purview of 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:27.160 the existing dominant state model of the world while gradually 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:31.880 undermining its authority. Now, the gender liberation component in particular 0:47:31.880 --> 0:47:34.400 has received a lot of international attention thanks to the 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:38.240 pewide's efforts to put it into practice. They established gender 0:47:38.280 --> 0:47:42.000 party quotas in all administrative, political and decision making bodies 0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:46.000 and leadership roles. They established women's councils to address women's issues. 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:49.759 They established the Women's Protection Units or YPG, which is 0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:53.440 an all female army which is very popular. And they 0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:57.479 established laws to ban honor killings and child marriage while 0:47:57.520 --> 0:48:01.239 strengthening the divorce rights of women. So these efforts and 0:48:01.280 --> 0:48:04.920 others within Ora Java have gotten a worldwide admiration for 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:08.560 the project, and many international volunteers have visited Rajawa to 0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:10.600 help them fight. And if you're in a lot of 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:13.600 online anarchist circles, you've probably heard a lot about Java 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:17.800 and solidarity with deliberation, but I think it has created 0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:22.080 a misconception that the solidarity that anarchists feels for Java 0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:27.719 is equivalent to one to one ideological alignment yeah, right, 0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:31.399 what they're doing is not anarchism, it's kind of its 0:48:31.400 --> 0:48:34.600 own thing. It's democratic confederalism. Yeah, and this has been 0:48:34.640 --> 0:48:37.200 a bandit in solidarity to the people, of course, but 0:48:37.320 --> 0:48:39.920 it just means, you know, being clear that we are 0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:42.839 fighting for a will in which many rules exist, and 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:47.120 so are they, and we are just willing to stand 0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:50.759 with and observe that project and you know, wish for 0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:52.880 the best and hopefully the best and see what comes 0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:53.120 of it. 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:57.480 Yeah, there are anarchist formations within the SDF right technosy analysis. 0:48:57.600 --> 0:49:01.680 It means anarchists struggle. It's like a more doctrinally anarchist formation. 0:49:02.320 --> 0:49:05.759 And like the way that they would phrase their like 0:49:05.840 --> 0:49:09.960 participation is that they are there in solidarity, right, and 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:12.239 like you say, we want a world where many worlds 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:15.439 can exist, and so they can offer and like if 0:49:15.480 --> 0:49:18.120 you go to Rijava, people will ask you to offer 0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:22.520 feedback right at the Curtish Worlds Techno report of feedback. 0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:28.600 They are willing to hear an anarchist critique and engage 0:49:28.640 --> 0:49:31.400 with it. That doesn't mean that they are anarchists, but 0:49:31.880 --> 0:49:35.279 it doesn't mean that they are like opposed to anarchists either. 0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:39.439 They're more willing to engage with anarchism than most Yeah, then. 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:42.800 Almost anywhere else have been in the world, maybe aside 0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:47.160 from Myanmar, but yeah, they will engage with and have 0:49:47.239 --> 0:49:50.600 these discussions, and they're on an ideological journey, right that 0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:54.879 the movement began within what they would call the nation 0:49:55.000 --> 0:49:56.160 to state paradigm. 0:49:56.320 --> 0:49:59.279 Yeah, I mean the PKK was originally Marxist. 0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:03.440 Lends and olger Land thinking has very much been like 0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:07.680 his journey has led the movement on a political philosophy journey, 0:50:07.680 --> 0:50:10.400 I guess, and there are different interpretations of different movements 0:50:10.440 --> 0:50:13.319 in different parts of Kurdistan that the draw on his 0:50:13.360 --> 0:50:17.880 political philosophy. But as his thinking while he was detained 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:23.239 in Turkey moved towards this democratic confederalist outlook, influenced about 0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:27.840 reading Marie Bookchin among others, the movement also moved and 0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:32.080 I think it was very well placed when the Assatist 0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:37.080 state withdrew to try and implement this, like you've mentioned 0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:40.360 right self government, the brotherhood of people's, all these things, 0:50:40.400 --> 0:50:44.680 but it wasn't always there, and it has been willing 0:50:44.760 --> 0:50:47.280 to change and willing to move its ideology over time. 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:51.400 Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's the thing we want to 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:54.879 look at people and projects and judge based on where 0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:59.720 we are in our position and our ideological alignment. Because 0:51:00.040 --> 0:51:03.560 one of us necessarily started off as anarchists, right and 0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:06.680 while we may wish that as an anarchist, I would 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.319 wish that, you know, these projects would move closer to 0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:13.560 anarchy and would pursue and explore an experiment with that 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:18.719 ideal and that idea. Everybody's on their own journey, and 0:51:19.400 --> 0:51:24.160 you know, at this stage in capitalist global dominance and 0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:28.240 status global dominance, we have to let whatever experiments exist 0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:31.359 or explore the different angles. You know, there's not one 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:35.480 right way quite yet or they may never be, you know. 0:51:35.600 --> 0:51:39.080 As one on the topic of disclaimers, I suppose I 0:51:39.080 --> 0:51:41.480 think it is important to address that, you know, the 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:44.960 SDF is not all sunshine and ruses. You know, there 0:51:45.000 --> 0:51:48.960 have been allegations of war crimes, including the recruitment of children, 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:53.960 and the allegations are forced to target a displacement. Now, 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:57.879 not all of these allegations have been conclusively verified, and 0:51:57.920 --> 0:51:59.800 there are a lot of actors have been involved in 0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:02.560 over the years that I push in narratives and common 0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:04.799 to narratives that have to be scrutinized on a case 0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:08.000 by case basis. Some of the war crime allegations, for example, 0:52:08.080 --> 0:52:12.320 have been made by Turkey, which is pretty suspect considering 0:52:12.360 --> 0:52:16.880 their track record of both hostility towards Rajava and Ni 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:21.319 Kurdish autonomy, and also their practice of war crimes on 0:52:21.360 --> 0:52:24.800 a cell a regular basis. Yeah themselves, you know. Yeah, 0:52:24.840 --> 0:52:27.400 but still hypocrisy has said, I think it is important 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:29.640 to not turn a blind eye to these kinds of 0:52:29.800 --> 0:52:32.400 problems and allegations when they are made. 0:52:32.800 --> 0:52:35.600 Yeah, I totally agreed. Like, if people are being compelled 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:38.640 to do things through violence, that is what the state is, right, 0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:41.799 and that is what we want to stop. And so 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:43.919 if that is happening, then we should condemn it, right, 0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:47.320 be that where they're being compelled to fight or compelled 0:52:47.360 --> 0:52:50.680 to leave their homes, Like that is a thing that 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:53.319 we are opposed to inherently, right, and it doesn't matter 0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:56.040 who's doing it is the action itself is something that 0:52:56.080 --> 0:53:00.680 we are opposed to. And yeah, we should again, like 0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:04.080 we should look at this like not through like roase 0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:05.360 To I know talk a lot about this, but I 0:53:05.400 --> 0:53:08.480 translated a piece from French a couple of years ago 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:11.080 from an anarchist who had fought in Spain, and it's 0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:14.160 called refuting the legend, and the main thesis of the 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:16.479 piece was that we should engage with the Spanish Civil 0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:19.280 War as it was not as we wished it to be. Yeah, 0:53:19.320 --> 0:53:21.200 and that way we could learn from it and and 0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:25.040 get better as opposed to just creating a hagiography and 0:53:25.120 --> 0:53:30.120 like a you know, like saints' lives, and same applies. 0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:32.640 Here, I think, yeah, because the anarchists ferments have been 0:53:32.840 --> 0:53:35.640 you know, few and far between. Unfortunately the major experiments, 0:53:35.640 --> 0:53:39.080 that is, the massive ones, the ones that make historical headlines. 0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:42.200 And I think there is a temptation to, as you say, 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:47.560 in constructor a hagiography, to glorify and venerate these these attempts. 0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:49.600 I think it's very important for us we treat them. 0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:53.840 It's scrutiny, you know, to hould them up to certain standards, 0:53:53.880 --> 0:53:57.360 and to evaluate their missteps, and to highlight their missteps 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:00.200 even more than we highlight thiss successors, because I see 0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:02.279 when we were going to succeed in the future. So 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:05.920 if we were willing to address and engage with those mystiques. 0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:09.279 Yeah, absolutely, I think on that point, the way that 0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:11.480 I see what's happening in Rojabre is not in a 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:17.560 monolithic way. Their are tendencies and organizations within the revolution, right. 0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:22.480 There are some who are probably operating in a paradigm 0:54:22.480 --> 0:54:26.120 that is not that far from the like ethno nationalist 0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:30.640 or kind of nationalist Marxist paradigm. There are some that 0:54:30.760 --> 0:54:35.920 are operating closer to an anarchist paradigm. There are some 0:54:36.120 --> 0:54:39.200 who are somewhere in between those two things, right, And 0:54:39.239 --> 0:54:41.879 there are some who would just want the Islamic state 0:54:42.080 --> 0:54:45.719 or the New Syrian state or the Assadist state to 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:47.400 go away and leave them alone. And that's why they 0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:52.120 picked up arms, and that's what they're fighting for. And like, yeah, again, right, 0:54:52.120 --> 0:54:54.919 we shouldn't. We should be suspicious of a movement which 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:58.920 is entirely homogeneous. We should be concerned. But I have 0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:02.360 concerns about the way some dissenting voices have been treated 0:55:02.360 --> 0:55:05.080 in the A n E s in the past year. 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:08.920 We should raise those concerns. But like it would be 0:55:09.239 --> 0:55:11.360 inaccurate inter view this movement as a monolith. 0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:14.160 Yeah, yeah, And that's the thing. It's simple, and tour 0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:17.880 is concerned. It's it's sad that this phrase has been 0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:21.680 vastardized because it's a useful phrase, right, that is, you know, 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:28.200 critical support, yeah, or critical solidarity. It's been taken by 0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:34.799 certain Internet actors to you know, to propagate apology yeah, 0:55:35.120 --> 0:55:43.160 for atrocities and the reasure of state violence. But it 0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:47.160 is a useful way of I think freemen, the way 0:55:47.160 --> 0:55:50.840 we should engage these projects. That solidarity doesn't imply that 0:55:50.920 --> 0:55:55.080 you keep your aull shut, that you don't seek to learn, 0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:58.600 that you don't respectfully criticize. That is, I think the 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:01.880 best way to engage these projecs not to you know, 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:04.800 close your eyes and just follow. 0:56:05.280 --> 0:56:06.239 Yeah. Absolutely. 0:56:16.800 --> 0:56:19.040 Getting back to I suppose what's been happening more recently, 0:56:20.120 --> 0:56:22.759 things have not been easy for the movement really since 0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:26.040 the beginning in twenty twelve. It has for a long 0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:29.280 time been caught in a web of conflicting and conversion interests. 0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:32.200 In addition to fight Genisis and not the Giadist groups, 0:56:32.560 --> 0:56:35.120 Rajava managed to receive back in from the US out 0:56:35.120 --> 0:56:38.840 of a coincidence of interests and tactical necessity, as I 0:56:38.840 --> 0:56:41.960 would put it, which is confused in some circles of 0:56:42.000 --> 0:56:45.839 the idea that Rajava is a US designed puppet through 0:56:45.840 --> 0:56:50.080 and through right. So, after the SDF liberated Raka, they 0:56:50.120 --> 0:56:53.080 began taking more heat from two Key, which saw the 0:56:53.239 --> 0:56:57.320 YPG as inseparable from the PKK and thus a threat. Remember, 0:56:57.360 --> 0:57:01.439 the YPG is the defensive army, the protective services rather 0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:07.120 and the PKK is the Kurdish party in Turkey. So 0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:10.520 they launched several military operations to prevent the Kurdish regions 0:57:10.520 --> 0:57:14.719 from linking up and having territorial continuity within Syria. At 0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:19.080 the same time, Rojava faced economic blockades, restricted movement, and 0:57:19.120 --> 0:57:22.600 strained relations with their fellow Kurdish political groups in Iraq 0:57:22.880 --> 0:57:25.560 that were aligned with Turkey and aligned with the PYD's 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:30.360 political rivals, which had lost influence since the establishment of Rajava. 0:57:30.480 --> 0:57:33.000 Then you also had the occasional alignments with Russia as 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:36.800 a strategic leverage against Turkey, and similar coincidences of interest 0:57:36.800 --> 0:57:40.240 with the governments of Iraq and Iran, and even cooperation 0:57:40.360 --> 0:57:44.160 between Rojava and Asad government. It's interesting to me that 0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:47.160 the US alignment is what receives the most attention, when 0:57:47.200 --> 0:57:50.200 it seems to me the Rajava had quite a roster of 0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:55.360 affiliations of convenience, not to say that those partnerships or 0:57:55.400 --> 0:58:00.240 affiliations necessarily benefit them in the long run, but it's 0:58:00.240 --> 0:58:04.480 important to police those affiliations in context. Rajava has been 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:08.640 seen and treated as a chess piece essentially by both 0:58:08.880 --> 0:58:12.800 global and regional powers as they attempt to put out 0:58:12.840 --> 0:58:16.360 a voice of their own and echoed their own autonomy. So, 0:58:16.920 --> 0:58:21.520 just before the twenty nineteen Turkish invasion, the US abandoned 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:27.480 Rajava entirely, withdrawing its troops and suddenly leading into the 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:32.320 tragic fall of several settlements to Turkey and Diggish aligned groups. 0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:35.600 Whether that moved with a draw or also raised the 0:58:35.640 --> 0:58:39.760 international profile of the Rajava struggle, as people on both 0:58:39.760 --> 0:58:44.480 sides of book spectrum were pointing out this American decision 0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:49.360 to abandon its allies in the Middle East. So, before 0:58:49.360 --> 0:58:51.200 we get to the fall of US SAD, is there 0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:53.600 anything critical did you say I missed? 0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:56.280 I do a pretty good storary. I've written, literally written 0:58:56.280 --> 0:58:58.520 a book about this, so I like, there's always things 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.680 I want to say. I was there during a time 0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:04.760 when Turkey was bombing. In addition to going to report 0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:07.480 on them, I just saw places as I was going 0:59:07.520 --> 0:59:09.400 about my day to day life that had been bombed 0:59:09.400 --> 0:59:13.120 the night before. Right, I think there's this misapprehension that 0:59:13.240 --> 0:59:17.120 America is by America. I'm amuseneting correctly, the United States 0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:22.960 is allied with the PYD. That's not the case. The 0:59:23.120 --> 0:59:27.440 SDF was the US partner for specifically in what's called 0:59:27.480 --> 0:59:31.560 Operation Inherent Resolve, which is the operation against the Islamic State. Right, 0:59:32.200 --> 0:59:34.080 while I was there, the US shot down a Turkish 0:59:34.160 --> 0:59:37.680 drone because it flew too close to their bases. They 0:59:37.720 --> 0:59:40.600 also didn't shoot down the dozens of other Turkish drones 0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:44.160 that killed little children while I was there, right, And 0:59:44.200 --> 0:59:47.880 I don't think anyone would reasonably expect them to because 0:59:48.680 --> 0:59:53.160 US was not there in solidarity with the revolution. It 0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:56.840 was there fighting alongside them in this one specific thing. 0:59:57.480 --> 1:00:00.280 And while that doesn't take away the fact that it 1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:06.720 is disgraceful to abandon these people who gave ten thousand 1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:11.000 plus of their children alongside the United States, Right, that 1:00:11.120 --> 1:00:15.000 is shameful. It is also what we should expect from 1:00:15.040 --> 1:00:19.160 the United States people that use the word haval, which 1:00:19.200 --> 1:00:22.520 means friend right as opposed to like the way a 1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:26.920 Marxist movement might use comrade. The friends there understood the 1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.760 terms of their agreement with the US doesn't mean that 1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:31.840 they were not disappointed doesn't mean that they would not 1:00:31.920 --> 1:00:34.880 ask for assistance when their children are dying. Of course 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:37.960 it would. But those are terms on which the US 1:00:38.120 --> 1:00:42.040 was allied with them, and certainly the US did not 1:00:42.760 --> 1:00:46.960 ideologically influence them. Perhaps the opposite is the case. There 1:00:46.960 --> 1:00:50.040 are certainly some people in the US military who went 1:00:50.040 --> 1:00:52.600 over there and came back seeing the world differently. Turkey 1:00:52.640 --> 1:00:56.400 actually called the US government because some of the US 1:00:56.400 --> 1:01:00.120 soldiers were wearing Abdulahi learned patches at one point and 1:01:00.240 --> 1:01:02.960 raised complaints about it. But yeah, I think it's important 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:06.080 to understand the terms of the arrangement between them. Otherwise, 1:01:06.120 --> 1:01:09.840 I think that's a pretty good praisie of the way 1:01:09.920 --> 1:01:12.200 things were. Do you have anything about Shengal? 1:01:12.440 --> 1:01:13.000 No, I don't. 1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:15.400 I'll do my potted. People can read my book if 1:01:15.400 --> 1:01:17.360 they'd like to hear more about its operation. I've sent 1:01:17.400 --> 1:01:20.200 one to you Andrew. Hopefully it's making its way across 1:01:20.240 --> 1:01:20.680 the ocean. 1:01:21.080 --> 1:01:21.600 Awesome. 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:26.640 So Shengal the sacred mountain of the the Azds, or 1:01:26.680 --> 1:01:29.280 a group of people have their religious group whose religion 1:01:29.360 --> 1:01:33.240 is probably closest to Zoroastrianism. They have like a peacock angel. 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:37.480 The Islamic state targeted the Azds because it considered them 1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:41.720 to be apostates, and it subjected them to genocidal violence. Right, 1:01:41.760 --> 1:01:46.240 this is the Uzd genocide. The states of the world 1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:50.200 largely abandoned the Azdi people. They tried to defend their communities, 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:53.080 but they were overwhelmed by the Islamic state, and they 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:55.920 gradually fell back to Shengol, which is their mountain, and 1:01:55.960 --> 1:01:57.680 they went to the top of their mountain to make 1:01:57.720 --> 1:02:00.320 their last stand. I guess right, that was their place 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:05.000 where they had always gone back to. And there were 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:07.520 some US special forces on the mountain, and from what 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:11.120 I understand, also some British special forces, but it was 1:02:11.240 --> 1:02:16.600 the friends from Kurdistan who decided to go. It should 1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:18.480 be noted that they're like fighting the Islamics stayed at 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:21.520 home at this time. Right their own villages, their own 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:25.320 towns are being subjected to the same violence. They went 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:29.440 onto the mountain and they built humanitarian corridor to extract 1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:33.240 the Azli people right with their bodies, with their blood, 1:02:33.640 --> 1:02:38.720 And if they had done nothing else since twenty twelve, 1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:40.720 that would be reason enough for us to stand in 1:02:40.760 --> 1:02:43.400 solidarity with them. Right like in that moment when the 1:02:43.440 --> 1:02:47.360 world letting the asdis die. Right when Obama and the 1:02:47.440 --> 1:02:49.680 United Kingdom and everything else was letting these people be 1:02:49.720 --> 1:02:54.280 subjected to genocide, it wasn't a military superpower who went 1:02:54.440 --> 1:02:58.240 to their assistance. Who wasn't the French or the British 1:02:58.400 --> 1:03:01.800 or anyone else who was willing to risk Again, there 1:03:01.800 --> 1:03:05.360 were small numbers of special forces, but it was regular 1:03:05.360 --> 1:03:07.960 folks from Kurtis down with Kalashnikov's who went to save them. 1:03:08.000 --> 1:03:12.360 And I think at this time, when like Western analysts 1:03:12.400 --> 1:03:14.560 who perhaps either don't have a proper grasp of what's 1:03:14.560 --> 1:03:16.440 happening in Syria or do and are just willing to 1:03:16.520 --> 1:03:20.000 lie about it, are condemning the a and Ees as 1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:23.480 some kind of kurdishcheth no nationalist project, we could point 1:03:23.520 --> 1:03:27.200 to this and we shouldn't forget the sacrifice that those 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:29.040 people made at that time. 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:33.160 Yeah, that's an important event that I didn't come across 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:35.360 my reusage, but thank you for sharing. 1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:36.440 Yeah, of course. 1:03:37.280 --> 1:03:43.000 So I suppose we are now approaching the critical moment 1:03:43.240 --> 1:03:48.200 in Rajawa's recent history. Asad's government collapsed at the end 1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:52.360 of twenty twenty four and the Hayat tari al Sham 1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:56.720 or HGS and Islamist militia with roots in Al Qaeda 1:03:57.120 --> 1:04:00.600 stepped into the vacuum and rapidly took control of large 1:04:00.680 --> 1:04:04.680 parts of the country. Then HGS leader Ahmed al Shara 1:04:04.960 --> 1:04:09.000 was recast on the international stage as Syria's new president, 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:13.960 welcomed by regional and western powers, received in diplomatic capitals, 1:04:14.200 --> 1:04:18.760 and rewarded with the lifting of many sanctions. Turkey emerged 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:22.000 as his strongest backer, as they were pretty coold with 1:04:22.040 --> 1:04:25.200 a SAD and they aggressively lobbied on behalf of the 1:04:25.360 --> 1:04:29.960 HGS government, reframing it as a stabilizing partner, and not 1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:32.200 long after the fall of a SAD, In fact, after 1:04:32.280 --> 1:04:37.080 Loachlan himself called for the PKK to this arm the SDF, 1:04:37.120 --> 1:04:40.440 which is only loosely affiliated with the PKK, though said well, 1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:44.760 you know not us, we will continue to find So 1:04:44.840 --> 1:04:47.960 Western governments, particularly the United States and its allies, appeared 1:04:47.960 --> 1:04:52.280 willing to accept this transformation of THEHGS. The calculators that 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:56.200 are fragmented and internally weak authority could be more easily 1:04:56.280 --> 1:05:00.360 stared to serve their long term geopolitical interests. So the 1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:03.640 ESHTS certain government had a little press tour, but within 1:05:03.760 --> 1:05:08.200 Syria they moved pretty predictably, engaging in violent for pressure 1:05:08.240 --> 1:05:12.360 and displacement and massacre of the Alawite, the Druze, and 1:05:12.400 --> 1:05:16.280 the Kurdish communities in Syria, and for the Kurdish initiated 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:19.760 the project of Rajava. The rise of the HDS government 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:23.560 would mark the beginning of an end, greater isolation and 1:05:23.600 --> 1:05:26.840 a renewed pressure from within and outside of Syria's borders. 1:05:27.360 --> 1:05:30.600 After consolidating power, the HTS government pushed into the Kurdish 1:05:30.600 --> 1:05:34.520 regions and encircled Kobani, the historic border city that once 1:05:34.640 --> 1:05:39.960 symbolized resistance to ISIS. So for days, coordinated attacks targeted 1:05:40.080 --> 1:05:43.840 Rajava itself, threatening not only the survival of Kurdish ol government, 1:05:44.320 --> 1:05:47.600 but the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians, as food, 1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:51.120 water and electricity would deliberately cut off and the city 1:05:51.160 --> 1:05:55.160 placed under siege. The violence had been especially devastating in Aleppo. 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:59.240 From early January, the Kurdish districts of Shikh Maksud and 1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:03.280 Ashrafiya became the focus of sustained assaults by Turkish backed 1:06:03.280 --> 1:06:06.760 militias and units aligned with the Syrian Transitional government. 1:06:07.200 --> 1:06:10.200 They would tell you that hik Maksud was a diverse district, 1:06:10.480 --> 1:06:13.240 and I'd probably used to describe it as Kurdish as well. 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:15.240 By there they will point out that is CD people 1:06:15.760 --> 1:06:18.440 and a lot of the indigenous Christian peoples of the 1:06:18.480 --> 1:06:20.520 region who lived in a Leppo tended to live in 1:06:20.520 --> 1:06:21.400 shick mac food as. 1:06:21.320 --> 1:06:24.960 Well, right, right, Okay, thanks for that contexts Yeah, of course. 1:06:25.480 --> 1:06:30.240 So civilian infrastructure was systematically hit at homes, schools, mosques 1:06:30.280 --> 1:06:34.720 and public buildings being shelled, while abductions, torture and executions 1:06:35.120 --> 1:06:40.840 reported nearmedical facilities. The bombing of Zalid Fekir Hospital devastated 1:06:41.120 --> 1:06:44.360 the local health care system and with mountain casualties and 1:06:44.640 --> 1:06:48.400 entire neighborhoods emptied, local councils in the SDF agreed to 1:06:48.400 --> 1:06:51.600 a cease fire and withdrawal on the eleventh of January 1:06:51.680 --> 1:06:56.040 twenty twenty six to allow evacuations. More than three hundred 1:06:56.200 --> 1:07:00.120 thousand people fled, many seeking refuge in areas still control 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:05.440 by the Autonomous administration, but fighting expanded eastward. Jihada's forces 1:07:05.480 --> 1:07:10.440 began targets in Raka, the Ressoul Hassaka and critical infrastructure 1:07:10.520 --> 1:07:14.000 like the Tissrian down prisons, who within thousands of Jihada's 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:17.240 detinees were located in these areas, and amid the chaos, 1:07:17.320 --> 1:07:21.920 Islamist fighters escaped, ISIS symbols reappeared and memorials to Kurdish 1:07:21.960 --> 1:07:23.520 fighters were destroyed. 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:27.080 There's one example which I think is particularly revelatory. It 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:30.760 was consistently cast once again by like think tankers who 1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:34.840 either know that they're talking speaking things that are n't true. 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:37.720 I was going to say something else there, or they 1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:40.440 just don't know and they're being paid to pretend they know. 1:07:40.920 --> 1:07:43.960 But though the one in Tabka that was destroyed, it 1:07:44.040 --> 1:07:46.080 was a statue of a YPG fighter, which she was 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:49.920 in arab It was portrayed as like local people celebrating 1:07:50.560 --> 1:07:53.400 their liberation from the SDF, But it was a whole 1:07:53.440 --> 1:07:56.040 group of men destroying a statue of a woman, a 1:07:56.080 --> 1:07:58.600 woman from that community who had fought to liberate that 1:07:58.640 --> 1:08:02.680 community from the Islamic state, right, And I think that like, 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:06.080 when that context is deliberately excluded, that tells us an 1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:06.760 awful lot. 1:08:07.200 --> 1:08:09.840 Yeah, that's that's an extremely critical point, I think. 1:08:09.920 --> 1:08:12.760 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:23.800 So. 1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:27.960 As the Syrian forces pushed further east, some non Kurdish 1:08:28.000 --> 1:08:31.040 villages in the region affected from Rajava to the new 1:08:31.120 --> 1:08:32.160 Syria and government. 1:08:32.640 --> 1:08:35.519 Yeah, mostly in Lake Daris or, right, which is an 1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:39.800 area where you have this longstanding that they're referred to 1:08:39.840 --> 1:08:43.080 as tribal communities like that. I guess that's a fine phrase, 1:08:43.080 --> 1:08:45.360 but sometimes the word tribal, I think, is used in 1:08:45.479 --> 1:08:47.439 a derogatory way in the West, So I want to 1:08:47.479 --> 1:08:49.160 be clear, that's not what I tend to mean here, 1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:51.760 just that they have a different form of political organizing, 1:08:52.280 --> 1:08:56.840 right of course, And like there had not been among 1:08:56.920 --> 1:09:01.040 those communities buy in I guess today an e S project. 1:09:01.080 --> 1:09:03.360 There was to the SDF as a military force, but 1:09:03.439 --> 1:09:07.120 not not so much to the project. And it was 1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:10.240 those communities that switched their allegiances. 1:09:10.320 --> 1:09:10.439 Right. 1:09:10.479 --> 1:09:13.080 This happened even in Aleppo, and we can look at 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:16.160 various economic and political and social reasons for that, and 1:09:16.320 --> 1:09:17.960 maybe at some point we should, but I don't think, 1:09:18.000 --> 1:09:21.839 like now it's the time that you know, we're concerned 1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:25.160 with ongoing struggle there. But yeah, especially in de res Or. 1:09:25.920 --> 1:09:29.120 What really saw the SDF frontline crumble was that people 1:09:29.160 --> 1:09:32.240 who were in the SDF suddenly became allied with the 1:09:32.360 --> 1:09:37.240 STG Syrian Transitional Government Syrian government, right. 1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:44.400 Right, And so these defections and with this onslaught of violence, 1:09:45.560 --> 1:09:48.680 I delivered an ultimate one to the goods and to 1:09:48.720 --> 1:09:55.479 the other groups involved in the Automouns administration North Eastyria 1:09:55.560 --> 1:09:59.559 was the dissolve the SDF and submit to incorporation under 1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:04.639 his command office and Irat. So in response, the SDF 1:10:04.640 --> 1:10:08.679 commander mass loom Abdi appealed outwill calling on the support 1:10:08.720 --> 1:10:12.080 of anyone who are be willing to assist. And this 1:10:12.160 --> 1:10:17.800 is something that particularly made headlines, anyone included Israel, which 1:10:17.800 --> 1:10:21.960 had previously intervened in Syria for the claim justification of 1:10:22.000 --> 1:10:25.759 aiding the juris community. I think the way that question 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:28.960 was posed to the SDF commander was definitely leading, like 1:10:28.960 --> 1:10:32.519 they were fishing for headline for sure, from what I 1:10:32.560 --> 1:10:35.640 saw of that exchange. But in the context of the 1:10:35.640 --> 1:10:40.400 Pastimeian genocide and the worlds awareness of the genocide, I 1:10:40.560 --> 1:10:45.160 think that even with that desperation for survival in mind, 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:49.000 that statement was I think a misstep. 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:53.960 Yeah, we constantly see like this allegation that the SDF 1:10:54.000 --> 1:10:56.280 specifically is like some kind of Zionists for sort of 1:10:56.280 --> 1:10:59.720 funded by Israel. That's been around for decades, right. I 1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:02.760 will say a couple of things. First of all in 1:11:02.800 --> 1:11:07.000 the early Kurdish Freedom movement. You know, Kurds died for 1:11:07.120 --> 1:11:10.160 Palestine right with the Democratic Friends for the Liberation of 1:11:10.160 --> 1:11:15.559 Palestine and Bofort Castle. If the Israelis were genuinely allies 1:11:15.600 --> 1:11:19.040 of the Kurds, no one would dare touch them. We 1:11:19.160 --> 1:11:23.679 have seen what Israel is prepared to do to Muslim countries. 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:27.040 They don't need much excuse. They would do the same 1:11:27.600 --> 1:11:31.720 in Syria. Furthermore, Israel has continued to invade Syria and 1:11:32.120 --> 1:11:36.360 has held Syrian territory for decades and has continued to 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:39.080 take more of it under al Shara, and al Shara 1:11:39.400 --> 1:11:41.840 has not done anything about it. So like I find 1:11:41.840 --> 1:11:44.240 the idea that he's like eliminating Zion is going to 1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:47.880 be very frustrating when the ideaf is literally inside his 1:11:47.920 --> 1:11:52.439 country invading it. And the Kurdish Freedom movement as a 1:11:52.479 --> 1:11:55.000 whole has been pretty forthright about the genocide. So on 1:11:55.000 --> 1:12:00.080 October seventh, twenty twenty three, I was in Kurdistan and 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:05.519 we watched what happened first in Israel and then in Palestine, right, 1:12:05.600 --> 1:12:09.080 and they were pretty forthright about that no one should 1:12:09.120 --> 1:12:13.799 be killing civilians, and as the genocide in Gaza began, 1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:17.200 they were forthright about calling it a genocide, and I 1:12:17.240 --> 1:12:22.479 think they didn't have to. No one was particularly asking 1:12:22.520 --> 1:12:26.600 them in twenty twenty three, right, and they did, and 1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:30.639 they made statements about it. And like I think seeing 1:12:30.760 --> 1:12:36.720 them as somehow ideologically inclined towards Israel when the it 1:12:36.840 --> 1:12:38.920 largely was in Israel who was fighting the Islamic state, right, 1:12:38.960 --> 1:12:41.559 it was largely them in the US. I think it's 1:12:41.680 --> 1:12:44.720 just people understanding the politics of the Middle East in 1:12:44.800 --> 1:12:47.799 terms of Marvel movies that there can only be two sides. 1:12:48.360 --> 1:12:51.040 And like, I'm sure at the time when they were 1:12:51.040 --> 1:12:54.040 facing genocide themselves they would have welcomed any support. But 1:12:54.080 --> 1:12:58.040 that doesn't mean that they support the murder of civilians 1:12:58.040 --> 1:13:00.920 in Gaza. They have been big, extra remaly clear about 1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:02.519 that for an extremely long time. 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:06.000 Absolutely, I don't think I should becording to the question 1:13:06.200 --> 1:13:08.000 just because of the statement of one commander. 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:08.599 Yep. 1:13:09.520 --> 1:13:13.320 So, after much fighting, the SDF signed acreements relinquish and 1:13:13.400 --> 1:13:17.679 control of Araka, dies Azor and remain in territory west 1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:21.800 of the Euphrates Britain in only Hassaka and Kobane after 1:13:21.880 --> 1:13:26.000 withdrawing from the Tishrian Dam. But even after concede in 1:13:26.040 --> 1:13:30.599 so much government forces violated ceasefire terms, so the SDF 1:13:30.600 --> 1:13:34.160 declared general mobilization across the Kurdish regions of Syria and 1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:38.600 neighboring states as a last desperate attempt to rally resistance. 1:13:39.360 --> 1:13:42.240 By the end of January, the Autonomous Administration had lost 1:13:42.320 --> 1:13:45.519 roughly eighty percent of the territory it once governed. The 1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:48.920 SDF was forced to retreat almost entirely into Hassaka Governorate, 1:13:49.640 --> 1:13:53.040 and on the thirtieth of January, the SDF formally announced 1:13:53.080 --> 1:13:56.360 a cease fire with the Syrian government and accepted a 1:13:56.400 --> 1:14:00.960 framework for folding both their military structures and civilians into 1:14:00.960 --> 1:14:04.639 the Syrian state. Syrian authorities set timelines on this agreement. 1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:07.480 Within a month, they would retake control of water crossings, 1:14:07.840 --> 1:14:12.479 oil and gas infrastructure like Crimelane, and also Wadi detention 1:14:12.640 --> 1:14:16.080 camps holding ISIS members and their families, and strategic sites 1:14:16.120 --> 1:14:21.000 such as Kamishli International Airport. Interior ministry units were scheduled 1:14:21.000 --> 1:14:25.120 to deploy to Hassaka and Kommissili almost immediately, and Syrian 1:14:25.200 --> 1:14:28.280 security forces would oversee the absorption of the Kurdish Internal 1:14:28.360 --> 1:14:34.160 Security Apparatus the SAISH into the state's police in structures. Militarily, 1:14:34.200 --> 1:14:36.959 the SDF estates to be absorbed under the Syrian Ministry 1:14:37.000 --> 1:14:41.400 of Defense, but on an individual vetted basis. Up to now, 1:14:41.520 --> 1:14:44.599 the fate of the female fighters and non Syrian fighters 1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:48.000 within the SDF is unknown, and on the civilian side 1:14:48.000 --> 1:14:51.000 of things, the institutions created by the Rajarafa administration are 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:54.200 to be absorbed as well. Kurdish officials have thus far 1:14:54.400 --> 1:14:58.200 secured the governorship of Hassaka and limited commander rules within 1:14:58.240 --> 1:15:02.479 the military in extreme for their surrender, because gained some 1:15:02.560 --> 1:15:06.559 recognitions on people. The government claims the firm national civil 1:15:06.560 --> 1:15:10.680 and educational rights, promised the return of displaced populations and 1:15:10.760 --> 1:15:15.519 issue decrees recognizing Kurdish as a national language taught in schools, 1:15:16.200 --> 1:15:20.439 declared the Curtis celebration of Nauru's public body, and reversed 1:15:20.520 --> 1:15:23.960 decades all citizenship policies that shripped tens of thousands of 1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:27.600 Coods of their citizenship. Thus far, most of these promises 1:15:27.640 --> 1:15:28.559 are on people. 1:15:28.720 --> 1:15:31.080 As I said, yeah, I think they'd see it. It's 1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:35.280 like a rebranding, not a surrender in agreement. Like from 1:15:35.320 --> 1:15:39.360 what I understand, the Yeppigates still see themselves as the 1:15:39.880 --> 1:15:42.720 WHITPG still see themselves as the YPG. The YPG very 1:15:42.800 --> 1:15:46.840 much still see themselves as the Women's Defense Force and 1:15:46.920 --> 1:15:48.559 so like, as you say, like, all of this is 1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:55.479 a paper agreement currently and we will see how I mean, 1:15:55.520 --> 1:15:59.679 there are now Syrian Ministry of Interior forces in Hesseka 1:15:59.840 --> 1:16:04.000 and Commichhlo, but like some of that has come to bus. 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:08.640 But what this means. Talking to my friends, they're like, 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:13.439 we will continue to see exactly, like what the extent 1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:16.840 they still have autonomy and to what extent they are 1:16:17.520 --> 1:16:20.080 integrated into a state which has in some instances banned 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:21.799 women from wearing makeup for instance. 1:16:22.479 --> 1:16:26.960 Yeah. Yeah, So the US and franz CO signed this 1:16:27.120 --> 1:16:31.320 agreement and pledged oversee its implementation, and the President of 1:16:31.320 --> 1:16:34.720 the Kurdistan Regional Government in Iraq has also welcome disagreement. 1:16:35.280 --> 1:16:38.439 But it still remains to be seeing what happens next. 1:16:39.040 --> 1:16:43.280 Yeah, I did see a hundred people who are non 1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:47.200 Syrian Kurds. I would imagine they would mostly be Turkish 1:16:47.560 --> 1:16:53.320 from northern Kurdistan had withdrawn from Syria and Gaunt Candyal, 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:57.200 which is kind of the stronghold of the various other 1:16:57.240 --> 1:16:59.639 parts of the Kurdish Freedom movement, and so that that's 1:16:59.680 --> 1:17:02.439 in so than Kurtistan or Iraq. It's near the border 1:17:02.479 --> 1:17:04.320 with Iran. But I saw that a number of them 1:17:05.000 --> 1:17:08.400 had withdrawn post disagreement that was probably on the tenth 1:17:08.439 --> 1:17:09.679 of February somewhere around there. 1:17:10.680 --> 1:17:15.600 So yeah, sadly this is an outcome of the imperialist 1:17:15.800 --> 1:17:19.880 world order that empires and regional actors will crush any 1:17:20.000 --> 1:17:23.479 threats to their power, will attempt to crush such threats. 1:17:24.040 --> 1:17:26.559 And as long as such power remains concentrated in these 1:17:26.600 --> 1:17:30.600 states and militaries and ruling classes, whether they are secular 1:17:30.880 --> 1:17:34.920 or nationalist, or Islamist or anything else, none of us 1:17:35.640 --> 1:17:39.200 then be free. Yeah, we could sit around on our 1:17:39.280 --> 1:17:42.160 armchairs and speculate, but what Moves or Java could have 1:17:42.200 --> 1:17:45.880 done differently, whether it be an affiliate to advance further, 1:17:46.000 --> 1:17:51.519 whether it be insufficient integration of and a buying of 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:56.960 other groups into the project, whether it be the alliances 1:17:57.080 --> 1:18:00.320 or agreements or affiliations that they engaged in. We can 1:18:00.360 --> 1:18:02.880 also sit around lit all the limitations they face. Some 1:18:03.000 --> 1:18:05.840 they managed to overcome and others not so much. But 1:18:06.439 --> 1:18:09.800 the blame doesn't lie in their failures to play this 1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:13.280 game of geopolitical chess as ruthlessly as other powers in 1:18:13.280 --> 1:18:15.840 the region. I think the blame lies in this game 1:18:15.920 --> 1:18:20.519 of geopolitical chess, in this ability of imperial powers to 1:18:20.560 --> 1:18:22.920 treat the people of the region as a whole as 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:27.800 tools to be used and discarded. And the end. I 1:18:27.840 --> 1:18:30.400 continue to hold to the position that only a shared 1:18:30.479 --> 1:18:35.439 uprising from below, one that refuses compromise, one that cuts 1:18:35.439 --> 1:18:40.320 across nationalist lines, has the potential to create a new world, 1:18:40.920 --> 1:18:44.080 and that fight must happen both within Syria and beyond 1:18:44.840 --> 1:18:48.839 around the entire earth. The fight is not over in Rajaba. 1:18:48.960 --> 1:18:52.200 I find it hard to believe that a people engaged 1:18:52.320 --> 1:18:56.600 in such a project would let go of that instinct 1:18:56.760 --> 1:19:00.679 and that drive toward greater and greater freedom. It remains 1:19:00.720 --> 1:19:02.840 we seeing what happens with them, but also remains we 1:19:02.920 --> 1:19:05.519 seeing what happens with us, what we decide to do 1:19:05.760 --> 1:19:09.280 to push our what's want to mean forward. And that's 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:13.240 all from me for today, or power to all the people. Peace. 1:19:27.400 --> 1:19:31.360 This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. A 1:19:31.520 --> 1:19:36.639 revolution is igniting across America, at least according to viral 1:19:36.680 --> 1:19:39.640 posts on social media and TikTok videos with hundreds of 1:19:39.640 --> 1:19:43.840 thousands of views claiming that anywhere between three to six 1:19:43.920 --> 1:19:47.439 to nine warehouses have been set on fire this past 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:51.479 week for not paying their employees a living wage. 1:19:51.960 --> 1:19:53.160 The revolution might be happening. 1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:55.559 We got a warehouse fire in Ontario, warehouse fire in 1:19:55.600 --> 1:19:59.519 New York, warehouse fire in Bakersfield, Amazon warehouse fire in Ohio. 1:20:00.000 --> 1:20:01.519 When they set a mall on fire too. 1:20:01.720 --> 1:20:04.320 It hasn't just been factories at this point, it's also malls. 1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:09.320 It seems as though people have begun to eat the. 1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:15.600 Rich workers of the world ignite. Like most instances of 1:20:15.840 --> 1:20:20.320 viral misinformation, there is a kernel of truth to this story, 1:20:20.360 --> 1:20:23.840 and one worth focusing on. But through a massive game 1:20:23.920 --> 1:20:29.960 of cross platform telephone facts and causality get warped and misconstrued. 1:20:30.760 --> 1:20:34.640 Selective reporting of similar but unrelated events can be used 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:37.840 to assert a connection between certain events even if there 1:20:37.960 --> 1:20:41.639 is none. But let's start with that kernel of truth. 1:20:42.400 --> 1:20:45.640 Just after midnight on April seventh, a twenty nine year 1:20:45.680 --> 1:20:50.160 old warehouse worker named Schamel abdul Karim allegedly set fire 1:20:50.280 --> 1:20:55.519 to a toilet paper warehouse in Ontario, California, after multiple 1:20:55.520 --> 1:20:58.559 pallets of paper products were lit on fire. The flames 1:20:58.600 --> 1:21:03.040 overwhelmed the fires oppression system and collapsed the roof. The 1:21:03.080 --> 1:21:06.799 blaze took over twelve hours to contain and ultimately destroyed 1:21:07.000 --> 1:21:11.519 the one point two million square foot distribution center leased 1:21:11.520 --> 1:21:15.799 by Kimberly Clark, the company behind Kleenex, Huggies, and Cottonell 1:21:15.880 --> 1:21:19.439 toilet paper. Local officials and the Justice Department has said 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:24.000 the fire caused over six hundred million dollars damages. The 1:21:24.040 --> 1:21:27.400 twenty employees who were working midnight shifts the warehouse when 1:21:27.439 --> 1:21:30.720 the fire started all evacuated safely, and there were no 1:21:30.880 --> 1:21:36.200 reported injuries. The day after the fire, videos uploaded to 1:21:36.240 --> 1:21:39.439 social media the night of the fire resurfaced, appearing to 1:21:39.479 --> 1:21:44.440 show the suspect intentionally lighting three fires inside the distribution 1:21:44.560 --> 1:21:49.640 center while speaking aloud about low wages, corporate profits, shareholders, 1:21:49.640 --> 1:21:51.280 and poor working conditions. 1:21:51.760 --> 1:21:53.519 You know, if you're not going to pay us enough 1:21:53.560 --> 1:21:56.679 to live or afford a live, I always pay us enough. 1:21:56.720 --> 1:22:00.960 Not to do that. All you had to do was 1:22:00.960 --> 1:22:01.920 pay us enough to live. 1:22:02.800 --> 1:22:04.559 All you had to do was pay us enough. 1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:07.680 There goes your inventory. 1:22:08.640 --> 1:22:12.479 The affidavit filed with the criminal complaint alleges that Abdul 1:22:12.520 --> 1:22:16.160 Kareem filmed himself setting fire to multiple pallettes of paper 1:22:16.200 --> 1:22:19.599 goods inside the warehouse, and as he lit the fires, 1:22:19.680 --> 1:22:22.400 he stated quote, if you're not going to pay us 1:22:22.520 --> 1:22:25.679 enough to fucking live or afford to live, at least 1:22:25.760 --> 1:22:30.240 pay us enough not to do this shit unquote. Beyond 1:22:30.240 --> 1:22:33.240 the short videos abdul Kareem posted to his social media, 1:22:33.680 --> 1:22:36.960 the affidavit alleges he made further statements to friends and 1:22:37.000 --> 1:22:40.519 co workers on the phone and via text message related 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:44.599 to his motive for setting the fires. He allegedly texted quote, 1:22:44.920 --> 1:22:49.000 I just cost these expletive billions and wrote that the 1:22:49.120 --> 1:22:53.760 quote one percent is an expletive joke. US attorney Bill A. 1:22:53.840 --> 1:22:56.400 Sale said in a press conference that after setting the 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:59.599 fire quote in a phone call to one witness, abdul 1:22:59.640 --> 1:23:06.799 Kareem compared himself to Luigi Mangioni. Abdul Kareem also allegedly 1:23:06.800 --> 1:23:09.240 texted quote, all you had to do was pay us 1:23:09.360 --> 1:23:12.759 enough to live, Pay us more of the value we bring, 1:23:13.200 --> 1:23:17.599 not corporate. Don't see the shareholders picking up a shift unquote. 1:23:18.400 --> 1:23:21.880 This past Monday, abdul Kareem pleaded not guilty to arson 1:23:21.960 --> 1:23:27.280 charges in court, though the warehouse stored Kimberlee Clerk Products. 1:23:27.479 --> 1:23:31.840 Abdul Kareem was actually employed by NFI Industries, a third 1:23:31.880 --> 1:23:36.400 party distribution company. N FI Industries is a family owned 1:23:36.439 --> 1:23:39.880 private company and does not report its profits, but last 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:43.439 year said they generated more than three point seven billion 1:23:43.520 --> 1:23:48.160 in annual revenue and had over eighteen thousand employees. The 1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:51.240 average executive at the company has a two hundred and 1:23:51.280 --> 1:23:55.040 thirty five thousand dollars salary, with the highest paid making 1:23:55.479 --> 1:23:59.880 seven hundred thousand dollars annually. Meanwhile, the average pay of 1:24:00.160 --> 1:24:05.240 an NFI Industry's warehouse worker in California, per job listing 1:24:05.280 --> 1:24:10.920 sites is eighteen seventy four an hour, with forklift operators 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:14.280 and warehouse specialists making twenty two dollars and thirty nine 1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:18.840 cents an hour. The median household income in Ontario, California 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:22.559 is eighty two thousand, eight hundred and six dollars a year, 1:24:22.960 --> 1:24:26.519 and the average salary is over seventy three thousand dollars 1:24:26.520 --> 1:24:31.240 a year or thirty five dollars hourly. Ontario, California has 1:24:31.280 --> 1:24:34.120 a twenty eight percent higher cost of living than the 1:24:34.200 --> 1:24:39.639 national average. Last year, Kimberly Clark made two point four 1:24:39.680 --> 1:24:45.160 billion in operating profit. The footage of this worker allegedly 1:24:45.320 --> 1:24:49.480 lighting the warehouse on fire went super viral on TikTok, 1:24:49.560 --> 1:24:53.640 with millions and millions of us sparking meme edits and 1:24:53.760 --> 1:24:57.679 hype videos. Then, in the days after the toilet paper fire, 1:24:58.320 --> 1:25:02.200 footage of other where house fires sorry to spread around TikTok, 1:25:02.760 --> 1:25:05.880 leading some people to believe that copycat incidents might be 1:25:05.880 --> 1:25:09.719 taking place across the country. Here's a clip with over 1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:13.880 three hundred thousand views of a left wing TikTok influencer 1:25:14.240 --> 1:25:17.360 claiming that since the toilet paper arson, more people have 1:25:17.439 --> 1:25:20.439 begun setting their workplaces on fire. 1:25:20.920 --> 1:25:24.519 So apparently that guy that burns down the toilet paper 1:25:24.560 --> 1:25:27.360 warehouse because they were not paying him a living wage 1:25:27.479 --> 1:25:30.000 or anyone the living wage for that matter, who the 1:25:30.120 --> 1:25:35.160 Internet has dubbed wall Luigi for warehouse Luigi, was not 1:25:35.280 --> 1:25:39.479 the only one with that idea or to execute on it. 1:25:39.600 --> 1:25:41.759 And I will say I am not one hundred percent 1:25:41.800 --> 1:25:44.080 shore on the timelines of all of these. 1:25:44.680 --> 1:25:47.439 Oh you're not one hundred percent suore, Well, then that's 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:50.960 that's fine. Continue anyway. This guy goes on to say 1:25:51.000 --> 1:25:55.639 that since Wa Luigi, he's seen quote four to five 1:25:55.720 --> 1:25:59.920 to six other warehouses that have quote burned down or 1:26:00.120 --> 1:26:03.920 at least been set on fire unquote. A lot of 1:26:03.920 --> 1:26:07.960 this social media reporting does not differentiate between a warehouse 1:26:08.040 --> 1:26:11.519 completely burning down and a small fire that is quickly 1:26:11.600 --> 1:26:15.919 put out. Neither do these social media reports provide evidence 1:26:15.960 --> 1:26:19.320 to the cause of these fires. One of the most 1:26:19.320 --> 1:26:22.360 circulated videos of one of these other fires is from Queen's. 1:26:23.160 --> 1:26:26.839 At seven point thirty pm on Friday night, someone reported 1:26:26.880 --> 1:26:31.240 smoke at an industrial complex in College Point, Queens. Firefighters 1:26:31.240 --> 1:26:35.800 soon responded to a rapidly growing fire inside a lumberyard warehouse. 1:26:36.439 --> 1:26:38.799 After the building was searched and no one was found inside, 1:26:39.080 --> 1:26:42.200 three hundred firefighters worked all night to contain the blaze 1:26:42.360 --> 1:26:47.360 to the sixty four thousand square foot warehouse. The lumberyard 1:26:47.439 --> 1:26:50.320 did burn down, but no injuries were reported, and the 1:26:50.360 --> 1:26:54.400 cause of the fire is still under investigation. But a 1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:57.000 post on x the Everything app with almost a million 1:26:57.040 --> 1:27:02.120 quote unquote views read quote an other disgruntled employee strikes 1:27:02.160 --> 1:27:06.519 at the heart of American capital. That TikTok influencer I 1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:11.320 already mentioned was very excited to share news of an 1:27:11.400 --> 1:27:15.680 Amazon warehouse on fire, despite not being quite sure of 1:27:15.720 --> 1:27:19.080 the details or how many warehouses were actually on. 1:27:19.040 --> 1:27:23.719 Fire, at least one of which I am beyond happy 1:27:23.880 --> 1:27:27.519 to announce one an Amazon warehouse, which is not to 1:27:27.560 --> 1:27:30.760 say more than one morn effect did. I've seen multiple 1:27:30.840 --> 1:27:34.760 videos of an Amazon warehouse on fire. I'm just not 1:27:34.800 --> 1:27:37.599 sure if it was multiple Amazon warehouses on fire or 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:41.479 just multiple people recording the same Amazon warehouse that was 1:27:41.479 --> 1:27:44.479 on fire. Either way, either way, bottom line, people are 1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:46.439 setting Amazon warehouses on fire. 1:27:47.040 --> 1:27:51.639 There is no evidence anyone set this Amazon warehouse on fire, 1:27:51.680 --> 1:27:55.080 and yes, it is just one warehouse, not multiple. On 1:27:55.160 --> 1:27:58.639 April eighth, firefighters responded to a fire at an Amazon 1:27:58.680 --> 1:28:03.800 warehouse in West Jefferson, Ohio. The fulfillment center was evacuated 1:28:03.840 --> 1:28:07.320 as smoke billowed from the roof of the warehouse. The 1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:11.559 fire was extinguished quickly and caused quote unquote minimal damage 1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:15.360 to the underside of the roof. According to Jefferson Township 1:28:15.400 --> 1:28:18.840 fire Chief Dan Gatley, there is no evidence that this 1:28:18.880 --> 1:28:23.799 fire was intentionally set by an employee or by anyone, 1:28:24.320 --> 1:28:28.240 and was possibly caused by a simple solar panel malfunction. 1:28:28.920 --> 1:28:32.360 Investigators believe seventy five to one hundred solar panels on 1:28:32.439 --> 1:28:35.720 the roof of the warehouse caught fire, which burnt through 1:28:35.880 --> 1:28:39.160 quote just a little bit of the rubber membrane on 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:43.200 the roofing and some of the insulation quote. According to 1:28:43.400 --> 1:28:47.360 fire chief Gatley, this insulation fell onto two racks of 1:28:47.360 --> 1:28:51.759 Amazon products, but Gatley estimated that more damage was caused 1:28:51.760 --> 1:28:54.400 by the water used to put out the solar panel 1:28:54.439 --> 1:28:58.120 fire than from the smoke or the fire itself. The 1:28:58.160 --> 1:29:01.840 exact cause of the fire is still on investigation. A 1:29:01.920 --> 1:29:04.960 post on x the Everything app with one point one 1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:09.400 million quote unquote views and twenty seven thousand likes, shared 1:29:09.479 --> 1:29:12.839 video of smoke billowing from the roof of the Amazon 1:29:12.880 --> 1:29:16.400 warehouse and was captioned, this is beginning to feel like 1:29:16.479 --> 1:29:21.120 something of a movement. Another post from a monetized blue 1:29:21.200 --> 1:29:24.599 check account with one million quote unquote views and twenty 1:29:24.680 --> 1:29:28.320 six thousand likes, also shared footage of the Amazon fire 1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:32.240 with the caption another warehouse fire, this time in Amazon 1:29:32.240 --> 1:29:36.120 fulfillment center in West Jefferson, Ohio. Warehouse employees across the 1:29:36.120 --> 1:29:39.800 country are using their unique position to attack the substructure 1:29:40.120 --> 1:29:45.720 and base of the Epstein class unquote. We'll return to 1:29:45.840 --> 1:29:49.320 talk more about these fires after this ad break. 1:30:00.200 --> 1:30:01.080 Okay, we're back. 1:30:02.120 --> 1:30:07.120 By the weekend, this warehouse fire meme really exploded and 1:30:07.160 --> 1:30:10.280 people started collecting reports of warehouse fires from all across 1:30:10.320 --> 1:30:14.120 the country. This next video went viral across TikTok and 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:16.640 also spread to Reddit and Instagram. 1:30:16.920 --> 1:30:19.200 I was tagged about this. This is an Amazon warehouse 1:30:19.200 --> 1:30:21.360 that also just caught on fire. So this is the 1:30:21.520 --> 1:30:24.439 third one after we just heard about New York and 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:26.960 Queens and then the other one in California where we 1:30:27.040 --> 1:30:30.559 saw the big video behind it. Right now, this is 1:30:30.560 --> 1:30:33.040 breaking news. I don't know much about it. I was 1:30:33.120 --> 1:30:37.320 tagged in this, this happened. I think perhaps today I'm. 1:30:37.200 --> 1:30:40.839 Gonna pause right here because next she includes a severe 1:30:40.960 --> 1:30:46.000 weather alert warning for risk of fire spreading in the Northeast, 1:30:46.280 --> 1:30:50.799 as if wildfires, and this weather alert was somehow related 1:30:50.960 --> 1:30:54.800 to warehouse fires on the other side of the country. 1:30:54.840 --> 1:30:56.679 And I haven't been able to find any news about 1:30:56.680 --> 1:31:00.479 it online yet. But there's this special Weather statement moderate 1:31:00.960 --> 1:31:04.880 for a fire spread in Pennsylvania right now. So that's 1:31:05.120 --> 1:31:08.960 four five right here where somebody said a Jene's store 1:31:09.000 --> 1:31:12.720 was set in fire in California. Again, I can't corroborate 1:31:12.720 --> 1:31:14.960 these things right now, these are just comments. And somebody 1:31:15.000 --> 1:31:18.880 also said New Jersey for another warehouse fire, so that 1:31:19.040 --> 1:31:25.639 is literally California, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey. I'm 1:31:25.680 --> 1:31:28.439 getting comments and reports in right now that there have 1:31:28.520 --> 1:31:34.000 been five different warehouse or storefront fires in the last 1:31:34.200 --> 1:31:41.960 three days. This shit is fucking wild. Holy six. I 1:31:42.000 --> 1:31:47.200 think that's six because it's two in California, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, 1:31:47.320 --> 1:31:49.840 and New Jersey. And again, I'm trying to find these 1:31:49.960 --> 1:31:51.880 items online right now, but like, I don't think the 1:31:51.920 --> 1:31:53.840 new cycle is caught up fast enough to it. So 1:31:53.960 --> 1:31:58.080 like who class war twenty twenty six shit? 1:31:58.720 --> 1:32:01.000 This person describes for off on TikTok as a quote 1:32:01.040 --> 1:32:04.280 unquote gorilla journalist, and that video got almost half a 1:32:04.320 --> 1:32:07.960 million views on TikTok and seventy four thousand likes by 1:32:08.560 --> 1:32:12.080 baselessly claiming that a string of fires that may or 1:32:12.120 --> 1:32:16.680 may not even be real are actually intentional arsons in 1:32:16.720 --> 1:32:21.040 an escalating class war hashtag eat the rich. Let's go 1:32:21.120 --> 1:32:23.040 over some of the details of a few of the 1:32:23.080 --> 1:32:26.840 fires that she and others have mentioned. In New Jersey. 1:32:26.880 --> 1:32:29.479 There were actually three fires this past week, one at 1:32:29.479 --> 1:32:32.720 a chemical plant, one at a battery warehouse and a 1:32:32.760 --> 1:32:37.800 wildfire which sent smoke into Pennsylvania. On Thursday, April ninth, 1:32:38.000 --> 1:32:41.360 a three alarm fire spread through a chemical warehouse in Newark, 1:32:41.439 --> 1:32:44.960 New Jersey. Over one hundred firefighters brought the fire under 1:32:44.960 --> 1:32:48.240 control that afternoon. No employees were harmed and the cause 1:32:48.320 --> 1:32:52.679 is under investigation. On the morning of April thirteenth, there 1:32:52.760 --> 1:32:56.479 was another three alarm warehouse fire in Rawway, New Jersey. 1:32:57.000 --> 1:33:01.120 While searching the structure, firefighters discovered the blaze emerged from 1:33:01.240 --> 1:33:05.400 palettes of lithium ion batteries. The exact cause of the 1:33:05.400 --> 1:33:09.640 fire still remains under investigation, and this past weekend, a 1:33:09.680 --> 1:33:13.679 wildfire spread through South New Jersey, burning up to one 1:33:13.760 --> 1:33:17.600 hundred and sixty acres and sending smoke into Pennsylvania. The 1:33:17.680 --> 1:33:20.960 National Weather Service worn beforehand that there was an elevated 1:33:21.080 --> 1:33:24.640 risk of wildfires last Saturday due to low humidity and 1:33:24.760 --> 1:33:28.920 twenty five mile per hour wind gusts. On the afternoon 1:33:28.960 --> 1:33:33.280 of Friday, April tenth, firefighters responded to a commercial structure 1:33:33.320 --> 1:33:38.240 fire at a trash disposal business near Atlanta, Georgia. The 1:33:38.280 --> 1:33:41.680 blaze stemmed from a garbage fire in the warehouse that 1:33:41.760 --> 1:33:44.120 grew out of control when adult was sent to the 1:33:44.120 --> 1:33:47.840 hospital with non life threatening injuries. Per a Gwinette County 1:33:47.880 --> 1:33:52.719 news release, quote, the incident presented several operational challenges, including 1:33:52.760 --> 1:33:56.400 a downed power line, a deep seated fire within large 1:33:56.439 --> 1:34:01.559 debris piles, structural components exposed to prolonged teat, and nearby 1:34:01.760 --> 1:34:06.679 hazards involving liquid petroleum gas tanks, and a diesel fuel reservoir. 1:34:07.040 --> 1:34:07.360 Quote. 1:34:07.800 --> 1:34:11.879 Firefighters brought this fire under control in less than four hours. 1:34:12.360 --> 1:34:16.160 According to employees, the fire originated from a small trash 1:34:16.160 --> 1:34:19.840 fire near the edge of the warehouse. Workers attempted to 1:34:19.880 --> 1:34:23.280 remove the burning debris before the fire rapidly intensified and 1:34:23.360 --> 1:34:26.760 spread to the structure. The fire was ruled accidental, and 1:34:26.880 --> 1:34:30.519 department spokesperson Lieutenant Jessica Joyner said that it appears to 1:34:30.600 --> 1:34:34.160 have been caused by trash piled in an unsafe manner, 1:34:34.439 --> 1:34:38.440 which can combust when mixed together at such garbage facilities. 1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:43.400 But two days later, a viral post read quote Atlanta 1:34:43.600 --> 1:34:48.880 Queen's Bakersfield, Ontario. I'm starting to lose track. Many people 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:54.360 are saying only living wages can prevent warehouse fires. Speaking 1:34:54.439 --> 1:35:00.320 of Bakersfield, a quote unquote communist Twitter account quote a 1:35:00.400 --> 1:35:03.680 video of a warehouse fire in Bakersfield, California from a 1:35:03.800 --> 1:35:08.160 monetized news aggregator account and got twenty one thousand likes 1:35:08.160 --> 1:35:11.920 by writing let it be a pattern. Another account shared 1:35:11.960 --> 1:35:15.360 a different video ripped from TikTok, captioned it's almost like 1:35:15.400 --> 1:35:19.760 electing billionaires was a bad idea. A socialist branded monetized 1:35:19.800 --> 1:35:23.639 account posted another angle of the Baker's Field fire, getting 1:35:23.680 --> 1:35:27.960 fourteen thousand likes with the caption is a rebellion actually 1:35:28.000 --> 1:35:32.000 brewing in the Imperial Core. On the afternoon of April eleventh, 1:35:32.200 --> 1:35:35.840 firefighters responded to a fire at a thirty thousand square 1:35:35.840 --> 1:35:40.040 foot warehouse in East Bakersfield. The Kerrn County Fire Department 1:35:40.040 --> 1:35:43.160 said this is the third time buildings at this warehouse 1:35:43.280 --> 1:35:46.000 complex have caught on fire in the past few years, 1:35:46.479 --> 1:35:49.360 with similar fires in November twenty twenty four and January 1:35:49.400 --> 1:35:52.040 twenty twenty five. The cause of this new fire is 1:35:52.080 --> 1:35:55.200 still unknown and under investigation, but we know it was 1:35:55.240 --> 1:36:00.160 definitely not caused by warehouse employees because this is an 1:36:00.160 --> 1:36:03.920 abandoned warehouse. The previous owner of the buildings told local 1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:07.680 news that the fires have been started by quote unquote vagrants. 1:36:08.720 --> 1:36:12.400 A massive fire engulfed another lumberyard last Saturday night in 1:36:12.479 --> 1:36:16.280 Wayne County, Ohio. It took twenty four fire departments across 1:36:16.360 --> 1:36:20.360 three counties working together to extinguish the flames. This lumberyard 1:36:20.560 --> 1:36:25.759 was home to a wooden Pallette manufacturing business. On Sunday afternoon, 1:36:25.760 --> 1:36:29.400 the owners of the Pallette manufacturing plant said in a statement, quote, 1:36:29.640 --> 1:36:31.800 we are grateful no one was injured and that the 1:36:31.880 --> 1:36:34.960 fire was contained. We are working with investigators to determine 1:36:35.000 --> 1:36:38.880 the cause and with our insurance carrier to begin recovery. 1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:42.719 Southwood Palette has served this community for forty two years, 1:36:43.080 --> 1:36:46.320 and we intend to rebuild and be stronger than ever. 1:36:46.600 --> 1:36:47.240 Unquote. 1:36:47.800 --> 1:36:50.799 Footage of this fire racked up over half a million 1:36:50.840 --> 1:36:55.839 quote unquote views on a socialist branded monetized ex account captioned, 1:36:56.360 --> 1:36:58.799 now there is a five alarm fire at a lumber 1:36:58.920 --> 1:37:02.479 Pallette warehouse in Wine County, Ohio. There are too many 1:37:02.520 --> 1:37:05.639 fires to be a coincidence. The working class has had 1:37:05.680 --> 1:37:09.160 it and quote. Tweets of the video got tens of 1:37:09.200 --> 1:37:13.240 thousands of likes, with users writing, quote love to see 1:37:13.280 --> 1:37:16.680 people finally standing up against their employers. Eight in a 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:21.760 week and no more thoughts and prayers, only fire unquote. 1:37:22.800 --> 1:37:27.320 Here's another video with over three hundred thousand views from 1:37:27.400 --> 1:37:31.160 that TikTok Gorilla journalist going through a few more of 1:37:31.200 --> 1:37:33.720 these warehouse fires that I've mentioned. 1:37:33.560 --> 1:37:35.920 Based on all of my comments and my research online, 1:37:35.960 --> 1:37:37.600 based on what people are telling me and from what 1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:39.599 I can see, the ones that I can corroborate right 1:37:39.640 --> 1:37:42.719 now was that last one was Ohio in a lumber yard, 1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:45.320 and then we had the Ohio Amazon, which was apparently 1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:48.600 due to the solar panels, we'll say. And then we 1:37:48.680 --> 1:37:51.040 have one in the Queens, New York one which was 1:37:51.040 --> 1:37:54.120 a lumber as well. New Jersey was a chemical warehouse. 1:37:54.200 --> 1:37:57.599 Georgia was a commercial structure. And then lastly, the one 1:37:57.600 --> 1:37:59.920 that you all been tagging me in is the California 1:38:00.120 --> 1:38:02.280 Jane Store which spread throughout the mall. From what I 1:38:02.320 --> 1:38:04.720 can hear and have seen online, so that is a 1:38:04.800 --> 1:38:09.439 total of seven since our original Luigi Man set fire 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:14.160 to the toilet paper facility that one. So that's where 1:38:14.160 --> 1:38:17.120 we are right now, a total of seven in about 1:38:17.320 --> 1:38:23.240 three four days of warehouse storefront fires throughout the United States. 1:38:23.280 --> 1:38:25.040 Now we don't know about all of them, but these 1:38:25.080 --> 1:38:27.760 are the ones that are on the radar right now. 1:38:27.800 --> 1:38:29.240 So if there's more out there, let me know. But 1:38:29.479 --> 1:38:30.479 we're up to seven now. 1:38:31.240 --> 1:38:33.960 Out of all the fires that she's talked about, the 1:38:33.960 --> 1:38:36.800 only one that we know is ourson. Besides the toilet 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:39.960 paper warehouse, is this fire at a mall in the 1:38:40.000 --> 1:38:43.160 same city in California, where a man who does not 1:38:43.320 --> 1:38:47.599 work at the mall allegedly lit multiple fires across several stores. 1:38:48.320 --> 1:38:51.680 The mall reopened later that same day, and authorities have 1:38:51.760 --> 1:38:55.000 said there's no connection to the warehouse fire, though the 1:38:55.040 --> 1:38:59.759 investigation is still ongoing. Before I discuss what's actually happening 1:38:59.760 --> 1:39:03.320 with all these warehouse fires, let's go on one more 1:39:03.400 --> 1:39:04.160 at break. 1:39:14.800 --> 1:39:15.760 All right, we are back. 1:39:16.520 --> 1:39:19.360 So what's really going on with all these warehouse fires? 1:39:19.479 --> 1:39:22.320 Is all this reporting just a coincidence? Are these fires 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:26.400 really labor related? Are these all disgruntled employees? Is there 1:39:26.439 --> 1:39:31.840 even more fires happening than usual? All good questions. Even 1:39:32.040 --> 1:39:35.040 if the exact cause of most of these fires hasn't 1:39:35.080 --> 1:39:38.400 yet been determined, it does seem from watching all these 1:39:38.479 --> 1:39:42.599 videos that there's been an increase of warehouse fires since 1:39:42.680 --> 1:39:47.200 the first toilet paper inferno. Though, just because you're more 1:39:47.280 --> 1:39:51.479 aware of warehouse fires happening across the country doesn't mean 1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:54.920 that these fires are actually happening at a higher rate. 1:39:55.640 --> 1:39:59.760 A report from the National Fire Protection Association found that 1:39:59.800 --> 1:40:03.759 for from twenty to twenty twenty four and estimated one thousand, 1:40:03.840 --> 1:40:08.200 five hundred and forty four warehouse fires occur every year. 1:40:08.920 --> 1:40:13.400 That's an average of four fires per day. Warehouses are 1:40:13.600 --> 1:40:17.040 home to a lot of high heat equipment and materials 1:40:17.080 --> 1:40:22.400 that are easily combustible, like lumber, paper products, batteries, and chemicals. 1:40:23.160 --> 1:40:26.320 The recent National Fire Protection Association report found that most 1:40:26.360 --> 1:40:31.320 warehouse structure fires had an unintentional cause twenty nine percent, 1:40:32.040 --> 1:40:35.080 ten percent were caused by failure of equipment or a 1:40:35.120 --> 1:40:40.919 heat source, and intentional fires accounted for just seven percent 1:40:41.200 --> 1:40:46.000 of warehouse fires. Operating equipment was the leading heat source 1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:50.479 in warehouse fires, responsible for forty three percent, and shop 1:40:50.520 --> 1:40:53.519 tools and industrial equipment were involved in the ignition of 1:40:53.680 --> 1:40:58.200 nineteen percent of warehouse fires. Misuse of material or product 1:40:58.280 --> 1:41:02.759 and electrical failure are the leading factors contributing to ignition. 1:41:03.320 --> 1:41:07.040 Improper storage of flammable materials and human error are also 1:41:07.200 --> 1:41:13.160 contributing factors. Intentionally set fires or arson does happen, but 1:41:13.200 --> 1:41:16.400 it's not the most common cause of modern warehouse fires. 1:41:16.960 --> 1:41:20.880 And again, warehouse structure fires happen four times a day 1:41:20.960 --> 1:41:24.160 on average, So not only is there no proof that 1:41:24.680 --> 1:41:28.720 underpaid employees have begun a free of lighting fire to 1:41:28.760 --> 1:41:33.080 their workplace, but there hasn't even been a recent increase 1:41:33.200 --> 1:41:38.439 in warehouse fires. On Monday afternoon, footage spread online of 1:41:38.479 --> 1:41:43.120 another warehouse fire outside Miami with the caption living wages 1:41:43.200 --> 1:41:48.679 prevent warehouse fires. But this fire actually took place over 1:41:48.800 --> 1:41:52.479 a month ago on March fifth, twenty twenty six, and 1:41:52.560 --> 1:41:58.520 an inventory storage warehouse. An employee told NBC Miami quote, Apparently, 1:41:58.560 --> 1:42:01.559 there was a short circuit and a spark fell on 1:42:01.560 --> 1:42:04.000 one of the carpets we have, and that's how the 1:42:04.040 --> 1:42:06.439 fire started. We try to put it out, but it 1:42:06.520 --> 1:42:11.599 happened too fast. Officials have not yet confirmed those details, 1:42:11.640 --> 1:42:14.040 and the exact cause the fire is still under investigation. 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:18.680 But it is literally impossible for this fire to in 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:22.439 any way be related to the toilet paper warehouse because 1:42:22.479 --> 1:42:25.920 it happened a month prior, and the footage is just 1:42:26.040 --> 1:42:31.280 circulating now to boost social media engagement. The video of 1:42:31.400 --> 1:42:35.200 the employee allegedly setting fire to Pallette. Toilet paper channeled 1:42:35.520 --> 1:42:39.479 such a strong feeling across American workers that people invented 1:42:39.520 --> 1:42:42.599 and circulated a whole fake news cycle about a string 1:42:42.720 --> 1:42:44.280 of copycat incidents. 1:42:44.640 --> 1:42:47.440 Something comes me, We're not done with the warehouse fires, 1:42:47.479 --> 1:42:49.720 just a hunch, because only if you had paid us 1:42:49.880 --> 1:42:53.280 a livable wage. And I'm pretty sure everyone is fucking 1:42:53.360 --> 1:42:55.200 over corporate America at this point. 1:42:55.400 --> 1:42:56.200 Like over it. 1:42:56.520 --> 1:42:58.479 People are starting to realize that there are more of 1:42:58.560 --> 1:43:00.640 us than there are of them, and the only thing 1:43:00.680 --> 1:43:02.880 that they care about is their profits, not the people. 1:43:03.080 --> 1:43:05.479 So if you burn down the profits, the people will 1:43:05.520 --> 1:43:08.439 find other jobs. Companies have to assure it the message 1:43:08.479 --> 1:43:11.519 really sends. I'm not concerning it or encouraging it, but 1:43:11.600 --> 1:43:13.360 I am saying it makes. 1:43:13.080 --> 1:43:17.479 A point that TikTok clip demonstrates why people are so 1:43:17.680 --> 1:43:21.080 primed to share these fire spree claims and memes of 1:43:21.120 --> 1:43:24.960 Smoky the Bear saying only living wages can prevent warehouse fires. 1:43:25.760 --> 1:43:29.920 This whole warehouse fire social media news cycle is an 1:43:29.920 --> 1:43:33.680 instance of selective reporting, which happens when there is a 1:43:33.720 --> 1:43:38.000 big national news story like someone filming themselves burning down 1:43:38.040 --> 1:43:40.880 a one point two million square foot warehouse and then 1:43:41.040 --> 1:43:44.919 that causes people to share what they believe are related stories, 1:43:45.400 --> 1:43:48.800 often from local news reporting, even if the connection is 1:43:49.080 --> 1:43:53.880 minor or tangential at best. A local report from Wayne County, 1:43:53.880 --> 1:43:58.720 Ohio ordinarily would not circulate as national news, but on 1:43:58.760 --> 1:44:03.679 social media a relatively unremarkable lumberyard fire can become part 1:44:03.800 --> 1:44:08.280 of a new, increasing trend. Sometimes local news agencies themselves 1:44:08.439 --> 1:44:11.719 may be incentivized to cover smaller stories in a certain way, 1:44:12.160 --> 1:44:15.240 to ride the coattails of a national story that shares 1:44:15.280 --> 1:44:19.600 a few similar details, or national news outlets fishing for 1:44:19.640 --> 1:44:23.600 clicks may themselves cover what would typically only be a 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:27.479 local story if it relates to a currently viral topic. 1:44:28.240 --> 1:44:30.479 A post on X the Everything app with one point 1:44:30.520 --> 1:44:34.759 four million quote unquote views and sixty seven thousand likes 1:44:35.240 --> 1:44:38.719 read quote, We're up to six warehouses set on fire 1:44:38.840 --> 1:44:41.400 now across the country, and I feel like it's being 1:44:41.439 --> 1:44:46.719 severely underreported un quote. If anything, these fires are being 1:44:47.080 --> 1:44:52.520 over reported. Another example of selective reporting is aviation accidents, 1:44:53.000 --> 1:44:57.000 where in the weeks after a high profile commercial airline crash, 1:44:57.200 --> 1:45:00.400 local news reports will spread around social media about even 1:45:00.439 --> 1:45:04.439 more plane crashes, even if these are mostly small private 1:45:04.439 --> 1:45:08.679 planes which get into accidents semi regularly Allah Harrison Ford, 1:45:09.360 --> 1:45:12.519 or minor runway incidents that usually don't make the news. 1:45:13.320 --> 1:45:16.400 A twenty twenty five poll from Data for Progress showed 1:45:16.640 --> 1:45:20.519 seventy two percent of likely voters believed plane crashes were 1:45:20.520 --> 1:45:25.559 becoming more frequent. A CNN report analyzing National Transportation Safety 1:45:25.560 --> 1:45:28.000 Board data from January twenty twenty four to March twenty 1:45:28.000 --> 1:45:31.639 twenty five found that out of one thousand, two hundred 1:45:31.680 --> 1:45:37.200 and eight flight safety incidents, only sixty incidents involved commercial carriers. 1:45:37.640 --> 1:45:42.320 Some of these incidents included turbulence or incursions that's unauthorized aircraft, 1:45:42.400 --> 1:45:45.719 vehicles or pedestrians on the runway. Half of these sixty 1:45:45.720 --> 1:45:50.560 incidents resulted in injuries, and two involved fatalities, the helicopter 1:45:50.600 --> 1:45:53.880 collision in Washington, d c. And a plane crash in Alaska. 1:45:54.439 --> 1:45:59.200 While those fatal tragedies and other high profile incidents like 1:45:59.240 --> 1:46:02.200 the runway flip in Toronto and the door flying off 1:46:02.240 --> 1:46:05.160 an Alaska Airlines plane mid flight, have sewed fear in 1:46:05.200 --> 1:46:10.320 the general public, Statistically, air travel is not getting more dangerous. 1:46:10.880 --> 1:46:14.439 The number of yearly safety incidents have remained mostly steady 1:46:14.520 --> 1:46:17.720 the past decade and only dropped around the pandemic due 1:46:17.720 --> 1:46:21.400 to a decrease in total air travel. In fact, on average, 1:46:21.680 --> 1:46:26.240 flying has only gotten safer, even including private and recreational flights. 1:46:26.479 --> 1:46:29.840 The average number of annual deadly incidents has fallen by 1:46:29.880 --> 1:46:33.519 more than half since two thousand, excluding nine to eleven. 1:46:34.240 --> 1:46:37.240 Despite viral news clips of near misses on the runway 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:41.400 and an air traffic controller shortage, those runway incursions have 1:46:41.520 --> 1:46:45.599 also steadily dropped in recent years. But such data can 1:46:45.640 --> 1:46:48.200 be heard to stomach if in the days after a 1:46:48.280 --> 1:46:52.559 high profile aviation incident, you keep seeing more reports about 1:46:52.600 --> 1:46:55.880 plane crashes all across the country, but that itself is 1:46:56.080 --> 1:47:00.599 selective reporting. On average three to four planes crash every day, 1:47:00.800 --> 1:47:05.000 and these are typically small private planes, not commercial airliners, 1:47:05.400 --> 1:47:09.880 and typically a small Cessna crashing in Kentucky doesn't make 1:47:10.000 --> 1:47:14.200 national news. The same thing is happening with these warehouse fires. 1:47:14.920 --> 1:47:19.560 Lefty TikTok influencers and many others participating in this warehouse 1:47:19.560 --> 1:47:23.479 fire meme are ascribing the motive of one person onto 1:47:23.560 --> 1:47:27.320 a collection of unrelated incidents, trying to create a pattern 1:47:27.720 --> 1:47:29.599 when there probably isn't. 1:47:29.640 --> 1:47:32.720 One saw that this one guy said that he did 1:47:32.760 --> 1:47:36.840 it because of his anger towards capitalism. And I don't 1:47:36.880 --> 1:47:39.040 know if that was the original toilet paper guy or 1:47:39.080 --> 1:47:42.280 like another one of these warehouse fires, but to each 1:47:42.320 --> 1:47:45.759 and every one of them, period, keep it up again. 1:47:45.880 --> 1:47:48.479 Out of all the incidents I mentioned, the only two 1:47:48.600 --> 1:47:51.880 we know were intentional was the toilet paper warehouse and 1:47:51.960 --> 1:47:55.120 the Ontario mall, And the only one we have a 1:47:55.120 --> 1:48:00.639 suspected motive for is the toilet paper warehouse. An Emerson 1:48:00.720 --> 1:48:03.919 College poll found that forty one percent of young voters 1:48:04.360 --> 1:48:08.000 thought the actions of the United Healthcare assassin were acceptable. 1:48:08.479 --> 1:48:12.360 Another nineteen percent said that they were neutral on the question. 1:48:13.160 --> 1:48:17.360 Luigi Mangioni. Memes and reactions to this toilet paper fire 1:48:18.080 --> 1:48:22.360 do demonstrate a form of class consciousness. This same week, 1:48:22.439 --> 1:48:25.360 people have cheered the attacks on the home of open 1:48:25.439 --> 1:48:29.760 Ai CEO Sam Altman. Even if influencers are just trying 1:48:29.760 --> 1:48:33.000 to make a profit, there is an active willingness among 1:48:33.040 --> 1:48:36.960 the consumers sharing memes and this living wage warehouse fire 1:48:37.040 --> 1:48:42.040 content to rally behind such action. The working conditions at 1:48:42.080 --> 1:48:46.320 these warehouses can be inhumane. Just last week, a forty 1:48:46.320 --> 1:48:49.519 seven year old worker at an Amazon warehouse in Troutdale, Oregon, 1:48:49.960 --> 1:48:54.880 collapsed and died. Supervisors prevented someone with CPR training to 1:48:55.000 --> 1:48:59.679 assist with chest compressions and instructed employees to continue work 1:48:59.680 --> 1:49:03.719 as usual as the body laid still on the floor. 1:49:04.200 --> 1:49:07.799 Oregon Osha has said the death was not work related. 1:49:08.720 --> 1:49:12.760 In a catastrophic vibe shift, Let's go back to our 1:49:13.040 --> 1:49:18.479 left wing TikTok influencer for his analysis. I really hope 1:49:19.000 --> 1:49:23.880 this is a sign of of what we all hope 1:49:23.920 --> 1:49:26.120 it to sign up. I can't be the only one 1:49:26.160 --> 1:49:29.400 who has felt like the tides are turning, the tables 1:49:29.400 --> 1:49:32.320 are turning, the winds are shifting. It really feels like 1:49:32.400 --> 1:49:36.439 there's actual movement being made in just the last few days, 1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:40.960 and now all these warehouse fires, which sure could be 1:49:41.000 --> 1:49:43.439 a coincidence, but I don't think so, at least I 1:49:43.439 --> 1:49:43.800 hope not. 1:49:44.040 --> 1:49:45.479 But what do you guys think? 1:49:45.800 --> 1:49:46.120 Come up? 1:49:46.120 --> 1:49:49.600 Blow and if this really is truly the beginning of 1:49:50.320 --> 1:49:53.000 it all ending, give me a follow for more like this? 1:49:54.200 --> 1:49:54.400 Huh? 1:49:55.400 --> 1:49:57.960 Everyone knows the most important thing to do when the 1:49:58.000 --> 1:50:02.479 revolution starts is to get give me a follow. Speaking of, 1:50:02.760 --> 1:50:05.320 there is just two days left of webby voting for 1:50:05.520 --> 1:50:08.760 it could happen here behind the bastards and migrating to 1:50:08.880 --> 1:50:12.559 America and we may need a supermajority to beat the 1:50:12.720 --> 1:50:16.920 ms NOW filibuster, So go make your voices heard before 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:21.960 voting ends on April sixteenth. That does it for me today, 1:50:22.080 --> 1:50:37.560 at it could happen here. See you on the other side. 1:50:38.360 --> 1:50:40.080 It's been more than a month since the US in 1:50:40.160 --> 1:50:43.240 Israel began raining down bombs in it Run. We've covered 1:50:43.280 --> 1:50:46.240 the weekly developments every week on Executive Disorder, but I 1:50:46.320 --> 1:50:48.480 decided that it was high time made a full episode 1:50:48.680 --> 1:50:51.280 to get people up to speed with the USA's latest aggression, 1:50:51.760 --> 1:50:54.320 the IDF opening up another front, and it's multifront war 1:50:54.320 --> 1:50:57.320 against the people of the Middle East. Normally, one would 1:50:57.360 --> 1:50:59.720 expect a major war with a major power like this 1:51:00.200 --> 1:51:04.000 fundamentally destabilized the region and ground world trade to a halt, 1:51:04.360 --> 1:51:08.120 caused massive inflation, to have some kind of very clearly 1:51:08.160 --> 1:51:11.200 defined set of goals. That is not the case here. 1:51:12.040 --> 1:51:14.840 We have seen various justifications, but the most common one 1:51:14.880 --> 1:51:17.599 seems to be that Iran is just weeks from creating 1:51:17.640 --> 1:51:22.160 a nuclear bomb. This is a claim that specifically Benjamin 1:51:22.240 --> 1:51:25.040 Nette Yahoo has been making for almost the entire time 1:51:25.080 --> 1:51:27.920 I have been alive. Here he is saying something similar 1:51:27.920 --> 1:51:29.280 a decade ago. 1:51:29.000 --> 1:51:33.280 The foremost sponsor of global terrorism could be weeks away 1:51:34.080 --> 1:51:38.120 from having enough and rich uranium for an entire arsenal 1:51:38.120 --> 1:51:39.200 of nuclear weapons. 1:51:40.000 --> 1:51:42.960 His claim was fanciful then, and it remains even more 1:51:43.000 --> 1:51:46.200 so now after twenty twenty five to Operation Midnight Hammer 1:51:46.520 --> 1:51:50.599 saw the USA and Israel attempt to bomb nuclear facilities. Indeed, 1:51:50.600 --> 1:51:53.439 the White House itself publishes statement on the twenty fifth 1:51:53.439 --> 1:51:56.880 of June following Operation Midnight Hammer, in which they quoted 1:51:56.880 --> 1:52:00.680 the Israel Atomic Energy Commission saying, quote, we assessed that 1:52:00.760 --> 1:52:03.880 the American strikes and around nuclear facilities, combined with the 1:52:03.960 --> 1:52:07.520 Israeli strikes on other elements of Iran's military nuclear program, 1:52:07.720 --> 1:52:10.720 has set back Iran's ability to develop nuclear weapons by 1:52:10.800 --> 1:52:15.080 many years. The achievement can continue indefinitely if Iran does 1:52:15.120 --> 1:52:18.360 not get access to nuclear material. It also include a 1:52:18.439 --> 1:52:23.160 quotation from Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense, saying quote, based 1:52:23.200 --> 1:52:26.240 on everything we have seen, and I've seen it all, 1:52:26.600 --> 1:52:30.679 our bombing campaign abliterated Iran's ability to create nuclear weapons 1:52:31.240 --> 1:52:34.760 that was less than a year ago. It seems unlikely 1:52:34.800 --> 1:52:38.320 that they destroyed much or any of the uranium that 1:52:38.439 --> 1:52:41.479 was stockpiled, but they certainly would have delayed plans to 1:52:41.640 --> 1:52:45.720 enrich that uranium or to build into a bond. Nonetheless, 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:48.160 on the twenty eighth of February this year, a massive 1:52:48.160 --> 1:52:51.360 campaign of air strikes, high mars beraches, and ballistic misstile 1:52:51.360 --> 1:52:55.559 attacks on Iran began under the code name Operation Epic Fury. 1:52:56.439 --> 1:52:59.240 The acronym OEF will be familiar to many as the 1:52:59.280 --> 1:53:01.200 same one used by the USA for more than a 1:53:01.240 --> 1:53:03.400 decade of war in Afghanistan and other parts of the 1:53:03.439 --> 1:53:06.599 world during what it called the Global War on Terror. 1:53:07.560 --> 1:53:10.000 On the day I'm writing this, it's exactly twenty three 1:53:10.080 --> 1:53:12.920 years since United States marines tore down the statue of 1:53:12.920 --> 1:53:16.320 Saddam Hussein that stood outside the seventeenth of Ramada Mosque 1:53:16.360 --> 1:53:20.080 in Ferdo Square in Baghdad, removed his regime from power. 1:53:20.880 --> 1:53:24.040 Since then, for my entire adult life and much of 1:53:24.080 --> 1:53:27.000 my childhood, the USA has been dropping bombs on the 1:53:27.000 --> 1:53:30.600 Middle East. This month, the temper and ferocity of the 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:33.320 aerial bombardment took a step up to a tempo we 1:53:33.360 --> 1:53:36.200 haven't seen since perhaps the peak of the Coalition war 1:53:36.200 --> 1:53:39.240 against the Islamic State, or perhaps even the shokuan Ow 1:53:39.280 --> 1:53:42.640 bombing campaign. Of March two thousand and three, and I 1:53:42.680 --> 1:53:45.280 want to go back to that campaign to explain exactly 1:53:45.280 --> 1:53:48.240 how we got to this one. The shakan Or campaign 1:53:48.320 --> 1:53:51.000 was based on a doctrine called rapid dominance that sought 1:53:51.040 --> 1:53:54.679 to establish a post Cold War military ethos United States. 1:53:55.200 --> 1:53:58.680 The theorist behind it, named Alman and Wade, explicitly outlined 1:53:58.680 --> 1:54:01.800 that to work, the shock and awe bombing campaign had 1:54:01.840 --> 1:54:04.240 to achieve a level of national shock like that of 1:54:04.320 --> 1:54:07.280 the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan, and that 1:54:07.400 --> 1:54:11.640 power and other civilian infrastructure might well be targeted. In 1:54:11.680 --> 1:54:14.639 an interview in February two thousand and three, Olmand said, quote, 1:54:15.080 --> 1:54:16.960 what we want to do is create in the mind 1:54:17.040 --> 1:54:20.080 of the Iraqi leadership and their soldiers this shock and 1:54:20.160 --> 1:54:24.520 owe so they're intimidated, made to feel so impotent, so helpless, 1:54:25.000 --> 1:54:27.240 that they have no choice but to do what we 1:54:27.320 --> 1:54:30.080 want them to do. So the smartest thing to say 1:54:30.280 --> 1:54:34.360 is this is hopeless. We quit. The US attempted to 1:54:34.400 --> 1:54:37.200 pummel their adversary so hard in two thousand and three 1:54:37.240 --> 1:54:39.640 that it would demoralized troops and lead to a rapid 1:54:39.720 --> 1:54:44.120 victory through the use and display of overwhelming force. In 1:54:44.160 --> 1:54:47.320 Iraq twenty three years ago. It sort of worked. The 1:54:47.400 --> 1:54:50.240 regime crumbled in less than a month, the USA got 1:54:50.240 --> 1:54:53.280 its quote unquote victory, and by the first of May 1:54:53.320 --> 1:54:55.560 of that year, George W. Bush had landed on the 1:54:55.640 --> 1:54:59.040 USSA Abraham Lincoln off San Diego and given a speech 1:54:59.040 --> 1:55:03.280 in front of a large that read mission accomplished. Twenty 1:55:03.320 --> 1:55:06.200 three years later, the Lincoln is in the Middle East 1:55:06.560 --> 1:55:10.400 and bombs are once again raining down on Iran and Iraq, 1:55:10.960 --> 1:55:14.760 while one way drones and missiles Iran slam into targets 1:55:14.800 --> 1:55:18.800 all over the region. In Iraq, twenty three years later, 1:55:19.120 --> 1:55:22.080 the United States embassy is once again being attacked, the 1:55:22.160 --> 1:55:25.440 US journalist was kidnapped, and the State Department it's telling 1:55:25.480 --> 1:55:29.600 citizens to avoid the region. The US bombing campaign in 1:55:29.640 --> 1:55:32.280 Iran this year dwarfs the two thousand and three Shock 1:55:32.320 --> 1:55:35.840 and All campaign, with the first day of Operation Epic 1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:38.440 Fury being almost twice the scale of the two thousand 1:55:38.480 --> 1:55:42.240 and three bombardment. However, they do have several things in common, 1:55:43.040 --> 1:55:46.000 Just like the bombardment of Iraq. Even twenty three years later, 1:55:46.400 --> 1:55:48.840 the US and Israeli air war showed us that there 1:55:48.880 --> 1:55:51.280 is no such thing as a precision bombing campaign on 1:55:51.320 --> 1:55:54.240 this scale. On the very first day of the war, 1:55:54.520 --> 1:55:57.640 the twenty eighth of February twenty twenty six, a missile 1:55:57.760 --> 1:56:01.480 slammed into a girls elementary school in Mina, then another, 1:56:02.440 --> 1:56:05.640 and then another. When the dust settled, more than one 1:56:05.680 --> 1:56:09.760 hundred and seventy five people have been killed, mostly schoolgirls 1:56:09.960 --> 1:56:13.760 between the age of seven and twelve years old. The 1:56:13.800 --> 1:56:16.640 school was located near an Iranian Revolutionary Guard base, but 1:56:16.680 --> 1:56:18.400 the school building itself had not been part of a 1:56:18.400 --> 1:56:22.240 military facility for a decade. And yet, despite targeting technology 1:56:22.240 --> 1:56:26.280 that allowed three missiles to scream across a continent hit 1:56:26.320 --> 1:56:30.120 a relatively small target in quick succession, Apparently the US 1:56:30.160 --> 1:56:32.280 military had not been able to ascertain, or perhaps did 1:56:32.280 --> 1:56:34.280 not care to ascertain, that the result of their strike 1:56:34.720 --> 1:56:37.320 was the death of as many as one hundred school children. 1:56:38.320 --> 1:56:40.720 The fact that I am reporting this forty odd days 1:56:40.760 --> 1:56:43.880 into the war suggests that despite an even larger scale 1:56:43.880 --> 1:56:47.080 campaign than the USA deployed in two thousand and three, 1:56:47.720 --> 1:56:50.960 despite the killing of little girls, the Iranian state has 1:56:51.000 --> 1:56:53.760 not said this is hopeless. We quit as Almond Hoby 1:56:53.840 --> 1:56:58.200 might around. Supreme leader Ali Hamani was assassinated in initial attacks. 1:56:58.840 --> 1:57:02.080 The power has since passed on to his son. Iran 1:57:02.160 --> 1:57:05.160 remains very much in the fight, despite the massive display 1:57:05.200 --> 1:57:08.560 of force by the US and Israel. Instead of quitting 1:57:08.560 --> 1:57:11.400 and giving up, they have been sending ballistic missiles and 1:57:11.440 --> 1:57:14.400 one way drones into targets throughout the Gulf States, Israel, 1:57:14.600 --> 1:57:17.960 and southern Kurdistan. This is in part because the United 1:57:18.000 --> 1:57:20.760 States and Israel had no clear shared plan for this war. 1:57:21.400 --> 1:57:23.440 In two thousand and three, the US aimed to remove 1:57:23.440 --> 1:57:26.760 Sada Pasan, and it did that. It made a massive 1:57:26.760 --> 1:57:29.040 cock up of everything it did after that. But this 1:57:29.160 --> 1:57:32.120 time we have two belligerent nations with very distinct goals 1:57:32.480 --> 1:57:36.600 who share a common interest in bombing the people of Iran. Israel, 1:57:36.640 --> 1:57:38.920 which by some accounts hit more targets in the USA 1:57:38.960 --> 1:57:41.600 early on in the war, is fighting to totally cripple 1:57:41.600 --> 1:57:43.920 the Iranian state in a no holds barred, no laws 1:57:43.960 --> 1:57:47.160 of war respected, campaign that has seen it bomb factories, 1:57:47.360 --> 1:57:51.760 oil infrastructure, and, most horrifically of all, desalination plants. The 1:57:51.840 --> 1:57:54.800 goal for Israel is to make it impossible for Iran 1:57:54.840 --> 1:57:58.000 to recover. It seems to leave the region mired in 1:57:58.040 --> 1:58:01.920 poverty and resource constraint and make sure that no Iranian state, 1:58:02.000 --> 1:58:04.120 be it this one or a different one, can ever 1:58:04.160 --> 1:58:07.440 be a threat to Israel. Again, it has assassinated many 1:58:07.440 --> 1:58:09.680 of the figures who have the ability to negotiate for peace, 1:58:10.120 --> 1:58:11.680 and the recent c use fire seems to have been 1:58:11.720 --> 1:58:14.360 something that Israel does not feel itself to be beholden to. 1:58:15.560 --> 1:58:17.600 For the US, the goal seems to be to use 1:58:17.600 --> 1:58:20.600 something similar to shock and or to force Iran into 1:58:20.600 --> 1:58:23.920 conceding its position and allowing the USA some access to 1:58:23.960 --> 1:58:28.280 its significant petrochemical resources. Perhaps emboldened by its success in Venezuela, 1:58:28.360 --> 1:58:32.360 the US might be expecting a similar client state relationship here. However, 1:58:32.400 --> 1:58:35.120 this has not been the outcome. Over the weekend of 1:58:35.160 --> 1:58:38.720 the eleventh and twelfth of April, JD Vance, Jared Kushner, 1:58:38.760 --> 1:58:41.280 and Steve Whitcoff flew to Pakistan as part of a 1:58:41.320 --> 1:58:44.360 Pakistani broke and cease fire to engage in peace talks 1:58:44.360 --> 1:58:47.720 with Iran. Before these peace talks, we saw both the 1:58:47.840 --> 1:58:51.240 US in Iran circlating very different bases for negotiation, with 1:58:51.320 --> 1:58:54.160 Iran demanding tolls for ships passing near its coastline, an 1:58:54.280 --> 1:58:56.800 end to sanctions, and the removal of US forces from 1:58:56.800 --> 1:58:59.960 the region. The US demanded an end to the nuclear 1:59:00.120 --> 1:59:03.200 program in Iran, and at one point the President proposed 1:59:03.240 --> 1:59:05.880 a joint US Iranian toll on ships passing through the 1:59:05.880 --> 1:59:08.800 Straight of horm Moos. Straight of horn Moose is one 1:59:08.840 --> 1:59:12.000 of the areas where there has been significant disagreement, and 1:59:12.360 --> 1:59:14.160 so I want to explain a little bit about what 1:59:14.200 --> 1:59:16.040 the Strait of horn Moose is for listeners who are 1:59:16.040 --> 1:59:20.600 not familiar. Geographically, the strait connects the Persian Golf and 1:59:20.640 --> 1:59:23.840 the Gulf of Verman, thus the open Ocean. It's just 1:59:23.880 --> 1:59:26.920 about thirty nine klumeters wide across its narrows point, with 1:59:26.960 --> 1:59:29.160 about a quarter of the world's liquefied natural gas and 1:59:29.200 --> 1:59:32.920 seaborne oil passing through the strait. Because of its geographical location, 1:59:33.080 --> 1:59:36.040 Asia and Europe are especially reliant on these energy products. 1:59:36.360 --> 1:59:38.600 Many of the Golf states will have no maritime export 1:59:38.640 --> 1:59:41.720 routes without transitting the street. In response to the United 1:59:41.760 --> 1:59:45.400 States and Israel's bombing campaign, Iran effectively closed the Straight. 1:59:45.560 --> 1:59:49.600 So a combination of missile threats, claimed mining, very high 1:59:49.640 --> 1:59:53.520 frequency radio broadcast warning ships of the two previously mentioned threats, 1:59:53.960 --> 1:59:57.600 and uncrewed surface vessel attacks that blew up and damaged vessels, 1:59:57.640 --> 2:00:01.160 including oil tankers in the Persian Gulf. At the time 2:00:01.200 --> 2:00:04.520 of writing, Iran is threatening ships transiting Distrait, and the 2:00:04.600 --> 2:00:07.560 US is attempting to blockade all ships that gaim to 2:00:07.600 --> 2:00:10.720 go to Iran. Iran has previously allowed some ships a 2:00:10.800 --> 2:00:13.120 right to pass safely if they pay a toll payable 2:00:13.160 --> 2:00:16.000 encrypto currency or Chinese yuan. Some ships appear to have 2:00:16.040 --> 2:00:19.280 certainly transited Distrait, but many more have not, and this 2:00:19.360 --> 2:00:24.360 presents a serious issue for global trade. Luckily, the problems 2:00:24.400 --> 2:00:27.880 with global trade have not affected our advertisers, so here 2:00:27.880 --> 2:00:30.400 are some goods and services that will probably cost more 2:00:30.440 --> 2:00:43.080 than they did a few weeks ago. The United States 2:00:43.080 --> 2:00:45.320 has a lack of capacity when it comes to mind sweeping. 2:00:45.960 --> 2:00:48.080 Many of the ships it does have which can do that, 2:00:48.160 --> 2:00:50.160 are not currently very close to the trade four moves. 2:00:50.840 --> 2:00:53.120 On the twelfth of April, it did send two destroyers 2:00:53.120 --> 2:00:57.200 into Distrate normally to begin mind clearing operations, but these 2:00:57.200 --> 2:00:58.840 aren't really a sort of ships that would do that 2:00:58.920 --> 2:01:00.920 so much as they would work a lotongside the ships 2:01:00.960 --> 2:01:03.640 that do that to provide them with security. There is 2:01:03.680 --> 2:01:05.960 currently a safe lane through the Strait that Iran seems 2:01:05.960 --> 2:01:09.080 to be sending ships through, but it's a little unclear 2:01:09.120 --> 2:01:11.320 to what extent, if at all, the strait is mined, 2:01:11.880 --> 2:01:15.720 and what kind of minds were used. Naval minds can vary. 2:01:15.880 --> 2:01:18.400 They can be pretty simple contact fuze minds like the 2:01:18.440 --> 2:01:21.120 ones you might have seen in the Mind Sweeper computer game, 2:01:21.840 --> 2:01:25.520 or bottom mines triggered by a number of mechanisms. Clearing 2:01:25.520 --> 2:01:28.240 a body of water this large would take a significant 2:01:28.240 --> 2:01:31.480 amount of time. Stopping transits through the strait was not 2:01:31.560 --> 2:01:34.920 Iran's only response to the attacks. They have launched a 2:01:35.080 --> 2:01:38.080 massive fuselade of one way drones and missiles a targets 2:01:38.080 --> 2:01:41.240 across the region. Their Shaheed drones are one of the 2:01:41.320 --> 2:01:45.120 most significant military innovations of the last decade. They're cheap, 2:01:45.800 --> 2:01:49.120 one way drones that can do tremendous damage at a 2:01:49.240 --> 2:01:51.840 very low cost. If you've ever heard of Shaheed drone, 2:01:51.840 --> 2:01:53.720 you won't forget what they sound like. It's like a 2:01:53.800 --> 2:01:57.440 lornmow flying over you. These drones have been so successful 2:01:57.480 --> 2:01:59.760 that the US has cloned captured drones to make it 2:01:59.800 --> 2:02:03.080 so in one wadrones, which it calls Lucas drones, and 2:02:03.120 --> 2:02:06.040 Iran has licensed production to Russia, which uses them in 2:02:06.080 --> 2:02:09.480 massive numbers against Ukraine. These drones have provided a cheap 2:02:09.520 --> 2:02:12.800 and relatively easy to launch platform for Iran strikes, which 2:02:12.800 --> 2:02:17.959 has focused on US allies Israel, and Bushur Kurdistan. Bashur 2:02:18.360 --> 2:02:22.400 meaning Southern or Iraqi Kurdistan has taken a particularly heavy toll. 2:02:22.840 --> 2:02:24.640 Much as this has been due to reporting in the 2:02:24.640 --> 2:02:27.960 early days of the conflict, which began with notorious fact 2:02:28.000 --> 2:02:32.280 check Eveder barak Ravid. Much as its reporting heavily implied 2:02:32.440 --> 2:02:35.280 or outright said that Curdish ground forces were repairing an 2:02:35.320 --> 2:02:39.680 assault into Iran. Raved's piece, which reported that Trump had 2:02:39.720 --> 2:02:43.560 spoken to two major Curtist leaders, was particularly shocking because 2:02:43.560 --> 2:02:47.680 it erroneously conflated Iraqi Curds with Iranian Curds, those from 2:02:47.760 --> 2:02:50.919 Eastern Kurdistan and Roja lad It's true that the majority 2:02:50.920 --> 2:02:54.320 of anti regime Kurdish armed groups from Iran retained bases 2:02:54.400 --> 2:02:58.120 in Iraq, but it's extremely unlikely that the KDP in 2:02:58.160 --> 2:03:01.160 the p UK, the major actors in Iraqi Kurdistan, will 2:03:01.200 --> 2:03:03.240 be storming the border into Roju Lat anytime in the 2:03:03.240 --> 2:03:06.200 near future. However, I have spoken to several of the 2:03:06.280 --> 2:03:09.280 Roja Lati arm groups who are part of the Alliance 2:03:09.320 --> 2:03:12.800 of political forces of Iranian Kurdistan. The groups involved in 2:03:12.880 --> 2:03:16.400 a Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan or the PDKI, the 2:03:16.440 --> 2:03:21.880 Free Life Party of Kurdistan PJAK, the Kurdistan Freedom Party PAK, 2:03:22.560 --> 2:03:25.200 two of the Komala parties, and the hubbut or the 2:03:25.280 --> 2:03:29.440 organization of the Iranian Kurdistan Struggle. The alliance predates the 2:03:29.520 --> 2:03:32.920 United States and Israeli campaign came around earlier this year. 2:03:33.520 --> 2:03:36.440 Arash Saleh I spoke to him for the PDKI told 2:03:36.480 --> 2:03:39.400 me quote at this point, the whole coalition is built 2:03:39.440 --> 2:03:42.720 upon some type of self rule instided Iranian Kurdistan as 2:03:42.720 --> 2:03:45.160 the main demand for all of them, and that as 2:03:45.160 --> 2:03:48.120 a main demand for all the Kurdish people in Iranian Kurdistan. 2:03:48.800 --> 2:03:50.560 This unity of groups is a positive step and it 2:03:50.560 --> 2:03:52.880 represents a real opportunity for the liberation of the people 2:03:52.920 --> 2:03:55.680 of Rojaa. But none of these parties are willing to 2:03:55.680 --> 2:03:58.760 be the spearhead of an American and Israeli offensive without 2:03:58.800 --> 2:04:01.400 guarantees that they will recive' support for their own goals, 2:04:01.680 --> 2:04:04.280 which are very different to those of the USA and Israel. 2:04:05.240 --> 2:04:08.360 In more recent weeks, President Trump has insinuated, and Fox 2:04:08.440 --> 2:04:10.200 News has claimed that he said this but haven't seen 2:04:10.240 --> 2:04:13.600 any recording of it, That the United States sent weapons 2:04:13.600 --> 2:04:17.040 to Iranian protesters through Kurdish groups, but that the Kurdish 2:04:17.080 --> 2:04:19.360 groups kept them instead of giving them to the protesters. 2:04:20.120 --> 2:04:22.880 Here's the clip of Trump implying this, and you'll have 2:04:22.920 --> 2:04:26.040 to forgive me for the gringly awkward light jazz background 2:04:26.160 --> 2:04:26.600 music here. 2:04:27.080 --> 2:04:29.640 They don't have guns. You know, we said some guns, 2:04:30.240 --> 2:04:32.920 but the group that were supposed to give which I said, 2:04:32.920 --> 2:04:35.200 what happened to my people? I said it. I called 2:04:35.240 --> 2:04:35.879 it exactly. 2:04:36.680 --> 2:04:38.360 We sent guns, a lot of guns. 2:04:38.680 --> 2:04:40.520 They were supposed to go to the people said they 2:04:40.520 --> 2:04:43.040 could fight back against these lucks. You know what happened. 2:04:43.400 --> 2:04:46.240 The people that they sent them to kept them because 2:04:46.280 --> 2:04:47.600 they said, what a beautiful gun. 2:04:47.600 --> 2:04:48.440 I think I'll keep it. 2:04:49.000 --> 2:04:51.680 So I'm very upset with a certain group of people, 2:04:51.720 --> 2:04:53.160 and they're going to pay a big price for that. 2:04:53.800 --> 2:04:57.760 But the Iranian people who will fight back as soon 2:04:57.760 --> 2:04:59.360 as they know they're not going to be shot and 2:04:59.400 --> 2:05:01.880 as soon as they yet weapons. 2:05:02.560 --> 2:05:05.440 The Kurdish groups I've spoken to have denied this, and 2:05:05.480 --> 2:05:09.920 it's not really logistically feasible. Hamno knox Bandi, a member 2:05:09.920 --> 2:05:12.320 of the General Command of the Kurdistan National Army, which 2:05:12.320 --> 2:05:15.720 is the peshmerger associated with the Kurdistan Freedom Party or PAK, 2:05:16.480 --> 2:05:20.160 said that quote Donald Trump's message is unclear to us. 2:05:20.640 --> 2:05:23.240 What is there is that we as our army have 2:05:23.360 --> 2:05:26.160 in no way received weapons from the US or any 2:05:26.160 --> 2:05:29.680 other country, not even a single bullet. And the PAK 2:05:29.800 --> 2:05:32.600 confirmed that statement to me this morning. At the time 2:05:32.960 --> 2:05:36.120 you're hearing this, that will be yesterday morning. I checked 2:05:36.200 --> 2:05:39.400 in with them. Then transiting the mountains to that part 2:05:39.440 --> 2:05:42.160 of Kurdistan and then smuggling weapons all the way to Tehran. 2:05:42.240 --> 2:05:43.720 It's not what they do and it will be very 2:05:43.720 --> 2:05:46.280 hard for them to do it. Also, at the time 2:05:46.360 --> 2:05:49.520 of the large anti regime protesting around in January, we 2:05:49.560 --> 2:05:54.280 saw groups, notably the PAK the Kurdistan Freedom Party using 2:05:54.320 --> 2:05:57.320 weapons that really don't appear to be US supplied, like 2:05:57.360 --> 2:06:01.880 pump act and shotguns. Nonetheless, this rumor, combined with the 2:06:01.920 --> 2:06:04.600 fact that Trump really did call Iraqi Kurdish leaders at 2:06:04.600 --> 2:06:07.200 the start of the conflict, presumably to ask for support, 2:06:07.720 --> 2:06:10.200 has led to a raqs Kurdistan region been targeted a 2:06:10.240 --> 2:06:13.400 great deal. These drone and rockets rights have not just 2:06:13.480 --> 2:06:16.320 hit military targets, but also the refugee camps where the 2:06:16.360 --> 2:06:20.360 families displaced from Rojaalat live, and many other civilian targets 2:06:20.360 --> 2:06:25.200 in major Kurdish cities. To quote a PDKI a statement quote, 2:06:25.400 --> 2:06:27.240 since the beginning of the war with the United States 2:06:27.240 --> 2:06:29.720 in Israel, the Islamic Republic of Ruan has so far 2:06:29.760 --> 2:06:33.960 targeted the family camps, medical centers, and educational facilities of 2:06:34.000 --> 2:06:37.160 the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan with more than one 2:06:37.200 --> 2:06:40.680 hundred and ten missiles and drones. These tags have continued 2:06:40.760 --> 2:06:43.839 even during the ceasefire between Iran and the United States. 2:06:45.200 --> 2:06:48.200 But it's not just Iraqi Kurdistan being bombed. In fact, 2:06:48.240 --> 2:06:50.640 a Rak has a distinction of being the only country 2:06:50.680 --> 2:06:53.560 bomb by both sides in the conflict. This is in 2:06:53.600 --> 2:06:57.240 part this is Popular Mobilization Forces, sometimes referred to by 2:06:57.280 --> 2:07:01.360 the Arabic name hashtal Shabi in Iraq have strong ties 2:07:01.400 --> 2:07:05.200 to Iran. The Popular Mobilization Forces or PMF if you're 2:07:05.200 --> 2:07:08.120 not familiar, were formed in twenty fourteen and fought against 2:07:08.200 --> 2:07:11.720 Islamic State in Iraq, but some factions within the PMF 2:07:11.760 --> 2:07:13.960 are also now listed to terrorist groups themselves by the 2:07:14.040 --> 2:07:18.040 United States. I want to resist doing the rather purel 2:07:18.160 --> 2:07:21.480 Sunni Shia Kurd analysis here because I don't think it 2:07:21.480 --> 2:07:24.320 explains the whole situation, and it's far too often seized 2:07:24.360 --> 2:07:28.600 upon by commentators seeking to oversimplify things. Many Kurds are Sunni, 2:07:28.960 --> 2:07:32.640 for example, but some are Shia, some the Christian or Jewish, 2:07:32.720 --> 2:07:35.800 or have no religious beliefs. There are other groups in 2:07:35.840 --> 2:07:39.000 the region who are not Muslim or Christian. I think 2:07:39.000 --> 2:07:43.080 it's unnecessarily reductionist, but nonetheless it's worth noting that the 2:07:43.120 --> 2:07:45.760 PMF are mostly Shia, as is the ratiome in Iran. 2:07:46.360 --> 2:07:50.320 The PMF have been using drones, rockets, and mortars to 2:07:50.320 --> 2:07:52.880 attack both the US bases and those of the Kurdish 2:07:52.920 --> 2:07:55.360 pesh Merger, who they see as tied to the US. 2:07:56.240 --> 2:07:59.600 On the telegram channels, PMF groups have shown successful attanks 2:08:00.160 --> 2:08:03.200 used to be Camp Victory near the Baghdad airport and 2:08:03.280 --> 2:08:06.880 against the US embassy facilities. While we can talk to 2:08:06.960 --> 2:08:10.360 Rogulati groups and see PMF statements on telegram getting information 2:08:10.400 --> 2:08:13.000 on the conflict from inside Iran, that's not regily propaganda, 2:08:13.040 --> 2:08:16.080 it's very hard. An Internet blackout by the Iranian government 2:08:16.120 --> 2:08:19.080 has lasted more than a month. The information that we 2:08:19.120 --> 2:08:22.520 see coming out of Iran is either state sanctioned or 2:08:22.560 --> 2:08:25.120 from people going to the border with Iraq to get 2:08:25.120 --> 2:08:28.440 cell phone signal, or from people using satellite Internet devices 2:08:28.480 --> 2:08:33.160 like starlings. Iran has been actively hunting people using starlings 2:08:33.200 --> 2:08:36.360 and further militarizing the Kurdistan region near the Iraqi border 2:08:36.360 --> 2:08:40.160 where people might get cell phone signal. Zenni Arbazisi and 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:44.520 Siavan Amini, a Kurdish couple, were arrested on the seventh 2:08:44.560 --> 2:08:47.200 of March this year and they have been detained ever 2:08:47.280 --> 2:08:50.919 since for the crime of using a Starlin. This repressive 2:08:50.920 --> 2:09:05.360 capability is not unusual or unique Terranian Kurdistan. I think 2:09:05.400 --> 2:09:07.920 we need to understand the structure of the Iranian state 2:09:08.280 --> 2:09:10.400 to understand why it will be very hard for the 2:09:10.520 --> 2:09:14.320 United States to achieve regime change simply with an air campaign. 2:09:14.840 --> 2:09:18.280 Iran has a conventional army known as the Arteche. It 2:09:18.320 --> 2:09:21.320 also has the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, better known by 2:09:21.320 --> 2:09:25.240 the initials IRGC, which has a specific remit of protecting 2:09:25.280 --> 2:09:29.480 the Islamic Republic. Within the IRGC, people may have heard 2:09:29.520 --> 2:09:32.720 of the Kutz Force. The Kutzforce sort of acts like Iran, 2:09:32.840 --> 2:09:36.200 CIA and Green Berets, combined by assisting other actors, mainly 2:09:36.240 --> 2:09:39.280 non state actors in the region like Husbolla, for example. 2:09:40.080 --> 2:09:43.120 Then there's also the Busiege, which is an element of 2:09:43.160 --> 2:09:47.200 the ILGC but is a paramilitary auxiliary force with as 2:09:47.240 --> 2:09:50.080 many as half a million members available for immediate call 2:09:50.200 --> 2:09:54.120 up and many more in reserve. The Busiege are in theory, 2:09:54.160 --> 2:09:57.280 directly loyal to the Supreme Leader, and they have participated 2:09:57.360 --> 2:10:01.600 in a significant oppression of the population. Combined, these forces 2:10:01.680 --> 2:10:05.840 represent a massive apparatus for state violence that is dispersed 2:10:05.840 --> 2:10:09.640 among the civilian population. Recent reports say they are even 2:10:09.680 --> 2:10:14.040 garrising schools and other civilian buildings. While the United States may, 2:10:14.080 --> 2:10:18.080 for example, have destroyed Iran's conventional navy, its big gray 2:10:18.120 --> 2:10:20.800 boats with the Iranian flag on them, it has not 2:10:20.920 --> 2:10:24.960 and cannot destroy all the small civilian craft that these 2:10:25.240 --> 2:10:28.920 groups could easily use to haras shipping or even plant 2:10:28.920 --> 2:10:33.280 sea mines, nor can destroy the many one way surface 2:10:33.360 --> 2:10:36.680 drone Iran has along its coastline. If you're not familiar 2:10:36.720 --> 2:10:40.680 with these, think of a remote control boat that explodes 2:10:40.720 --> 2:10:44.560 when it hits its target. Israel has killed many ILGC 2:10:44.680 --> 2:10:49.200 figures but many more LGC units and besiegs remain untouched, 2:10:49.520 --> 2:10:52.480 are willing to turn their weapons on any potential uprising 2:10:52.520 --> 2:10:55.480 in the country. With this in mind, let's talk a 2:10:55.520 --> 2:10:58.800 little bit more about those peace negotiations that happened last 2:10:58.840 --> 2:11:02.640 weekend in Pakistan, and particularly let's talk about the composition 2:11:02.640 --> 2:11:08.400 of Iran's delegation. Amongst Iran's negotiators was Mohammad Jaffiri Sahra Rud, 2:11:09.040 --> 2:11:12.160 who participate in the murder of doctor Abdul Rahman Gaseemlu 2:11:12.560 --> 2:11:18.080 during negotiations between the PDKI and Iran in nineteen eighty nine. 2:11:18.440 --> 2:11:23.200 Doctor Gacemlu had been a notable Kurdish leader for some time, 2:11:24.040 --> 2:11:26.400 was sentenced to death by the Iranian regime and then 2:11:26.600 --> 2:11:29.640 kill when he came to the negotiating table. In a 2:11:29.680 --> 2:11:33.200 statement sent to me, the pak said quote the composition 2:11:33.320 --> 2:11:36.200 of the Iranian delegation, largely made up of military and 2:11:36.240 --> 2:11:39.640 security figures, clearly indicates that the primary objective was not 2:11:39.680 --> 2:11:43.280 to advance a genuine diplomatic process, but rather to manage 2:11:43.280 --> 2:11:47.000 the situation in line with strategic goals Iran seemed to 2:11:47.040 --> 2:11:50.560 achievely see negotiations as a way to buy time it's 2:11:50.600 --> 2:11:52.640 been able to dig out many of its missiles which 2:11:52.680 --> 2:11:55.480 were buried but not destroyed by its strikes, and in 2:11:55.520 --> 2:11:57.960 this pause it can shore up its pasture against domestic 2:11:58.000 --> 2:12:01.440 dissenters as well. It does not seem, in short, to 2:12:01.480 --> 2:12:04.080 be acting in the way the sharkan or doctrine might 2:12:04.080 --> 2:12:07.080 suggest and hope that it would. Indeed, in recent weeks, 2:12:07.080 --> 2:12:09.160 it's been able to mobilize civilians to go two power 2:12:09.160 --> 2:12:11.400 plants and the hope that their presence will prevent bombing 2:12:11.440 --> 2:12:15.040 of those facilities. Despite this, and despite it being a 2:12:15.120 --> 2:12:18.480 violation of various international treaties, some of which is right 2:12:18.600 --> 2:12:21.080 is not signed up to, Israel has continued to hit 2:12:21.120 --> 2:12:25.280 power plants, oil infrastructure, and bridges, despite the civilian costs. 2:12:26.240 --> 2:12:29.320 It certainly seems that after a weekend of negotiating face 2:12:29.320 --> 2:12:32.320 to face in Pakistan, the United States was not able 2:12:32.360 --> 2:12:34.640 to get what it wanted out of the negotiations. They 2:12:34.680 --> 2:12:37.680 have chosen not to accept our terms. Vice President J. D. 2:12:37.800 --> 2:12:40.440 Van said, here's him talking about the negotiations at a 2:12:40.440 --> 2:12:42.960 press conference on Sunday morning local time. 2:12:43.600 --> 2:12:45.640 But the simple fact is that we need to see 2:12:45.800 --> 2:12:50.160 an affirmative commitment that they will not seek a nuclear weapon, 2:12:50.440 --> 2:12:52.440 and they will not seek the tools that would enable 2:12:52.480 --> 2:12:55.280 them to quickly achieve a nuclear weapon. That is the 2:12:55.360 --> 2:12:57.480 core goal of the President of the United States, and 2:12:57.520 --> 2:13:00.760 that's what we've tried to achieve through these negotiations. Again, 2:13:00.960 --> 2:13:05.000 their nuclear programs, such as it is, the enrichment facilities 2:13:05.040 --> 2:13:09.440 that they had before, they've been destroyed. But the civil 2:13:09.520 --> 2:13:13.000 question is, do we see a fundamental commitment of will 2:13:13.480 --> 2:13:16.600 for the Iranians not to develop a nuclear weapon, not 2:13:16.680 --> 2:13:18.560 just now, not just two years from now, but for 2:13:18.600 --> 2:13:20.120 the long term. We haven't seen that yet. 2:13:20.120 --> 2:13:21.720 We hope that we will. 2:13:22.000 --> 2:13:25.520 Trump, however, has been talking about a more diverse range 2:13:25.560 --> 2:13:29.000 of goals than Balancelest's here talking about ending quote forty 2:13:29.040 --> 2:13:32.360 seven years of extortion, corruption, and death. In one truth, 2:13:32.920 --> 2:13:35.920 this suggests regime change, which Trump then went on to 2:13:36.000 --> 2:13:41.200 falsely claim he has already achieved, saying in a truth quote, However, 2:13:41.680 --> 2:13:45.000 now that we have complete and total regime change, where different, 2:13:45.080 --> 2:13:50.240 smarter and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionarily wonderful 2:13:50.240 --> 2:13:54.200 can happen. Who knows. This was incidentally in the very 2:13:54.280 --> 2:13:58.080 same truth in which Trump said, quote, A whole civilization 2:13:58.120 --> 2:14:00.960 will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I 2:14:01.000 --> 2:14:03.760 don't want that to happen, but it probably will. This 2:14:03.960 --> 2:14:06.160 was part of a threat which he hoped to result 2:14:06.160 --> 2:14:09.240 in Iran reopening the Strait of Horn News. Trump also 2:14:09.320 --> 2:14:13.320 posted on Easter Sunday, quote, open the fucking strait, you 2:14:13.440 --> 2:14:17.160 crazy bastards, or you'll be living in hell. Obviously, this 2:14:17.240 --> 2:14:20.320 statement seems odds with any idea of liberating the Iranian people, 2:14:20.360 --> 2:14:22.480 and when it comes from the guy with the nuclear arsenal, 2:14:22.640 --> 2:14:26.320 it sounds like a threat of genocide. While Trump has 2:14:26.320 --> 2:14:28.880 not launched any nuclear weapons in Iran, this does not 2:14:29.000 --> 2:14:32.080 mean that the death toll has not been heavy. According 2:14:32.120 --> 2:14:35.360 to a report by human rights organization Hengor, at least 2:14:35.360 --> 2:14:38.480 seven six hundred and fifty people have been killed during 2:14:38.520 --> 2:14:42.920 the US and Israeli bombing, including one thousand and thirty civilians. 2:14:43.720 --> 2:14:47.520 Iran has also continued attacking its own population. Despite the 2:14:47.560 --> 2:14:50.800 massive scale of the killing, Iran has not ceased, for example, 2:14:50.880 --> 2:14:54.800 executing political prisoners. Hengor estimates that at least one hundred 2:14:54.840 --> 2:14:57.520 and sixty political prisoners have been killed in the first 2:14:57.600 --> 2:15:00.720 quarter of this year. United States groups have been killed 2:15:00.720 --> 2:15:04.000 as well, thirteen of them according to the Military Times, 2:15:04.560 --> 2:15:08.360 hundreds more have been wounded. Survivors of one deadly drone 2:15:08.360 --> 2:15:11.280 attack on a US facility in q Eight have disputed 2:15:11.320 --> 2:15:14.520 official accounts of the attack, saying their facility did have 2:15:14.640 --> 2:15:18.680 vertical blast barriers, but no overhead protection against the kind 2:15:18.680 --> 2:15:21.040 of drones that killed six of their colleagues, and the 2:15:21.120 --> 2:15:23.440 kind of drones they could reasonably expect to be attacked by, 2:15:23.480 --> 2:15:26.040 given that Iran has been using these very same drones 2:15:26.440 --> 2:15:28.720 for a long time in Syria and other parts of 2:15:28.720 --> 2:15:31.680 the Middle East. To quote CBS who interviewed one of 2:15:31.680 --> 2:15:34.720 them on condition of anonymity, quote, painting a picture that 2:15:34.760 --> 2:15:37.880 one squeaked through is a falsehood. I want people to 2:15:37.960 --> 2:15:41.040 know the unit. And then there's ellipses here where they've 2:15:41.160 --> 2:15:45.040 removed part of the quotation. Was unprepared to provide any 2:15:45.080 --> 2:15:49.480 defense for itself. It was not a fortified position. So 2:15:49.840 --> 2:15:52.800 where are we now? While the US government continues to 2:15:52.920 --> 2:15:56.000 edit supercuts of bombs hitting buildings and vehicles to music 2:15:56.120 --> 2:15:59.120 ladies does not have permission to use. Families in the 2:15:59.200 --> 2:16:01.840 United States and Iran are both burying their loved ones. 2:16:02.560 --> 2:16:06.200 Despite the ceasefire, the US in Iran are theoretically held 2:16:06.200 --> 2:16:08.520 to there has been no cease fire for the Kurds 2:16:08.520 --> 2:16:11.600 who are still being bombed. No ceasefire for Lebanon, whereas 2:16:11.600 --> 2:16:14.680 where is still carrying out a massive bombing campaign. And 2:16:14.760 --> 2:16:17.480 on day two of the USA's blockade of Iranian ports, 2:16:17.720 --> 2:16:20.280 traffic through the Strait of Hormos remains in the single 2:16:20.280 --> 2:16:23.800 digit numbers of ships. We have not achieved, and it 2:16:23.800 --> 2:16:27.400 seems that we likely will not achieve liberation for the 2:16:27.440 --> 2:16:30.200 people of Iran. In fact, it may be the case 2:16:30.240 --> 2:16:34.359 that the regime moves closer to the IERGC becomes more hardlined, 2:16:34.440 --> 2:16:38.560 more repressive, more violent. Just like in Caracas. The only 2:16:38.560 --> 2:16:41.800 thing the US seems interested in liberating is oil. Iran's 2:16:41.840 --> 2:16:45.440 nuclear threat remains like Schrodinger's cat are once terrible and 2:16:45.520 --> 2:16:48.760 non existent, destroyed last year in the justification for thousands 2:16:48.800 --> 2:16:52.400 of deaths this year, as always, our solidarity should be 2:16:52.440 --> 2:16:56.160 with people and not with states. We can perfectly coherently 2:16:56.200 --> 2:16:58.080 hold that the people of Iran do not deserve to 2:16:58.120 --> 2:17:00.800 be killed by the US or the ring government, and 2:17:00.800 --> 2:17:02.760 that what we want for them should be what we 2:17:02.800 --> 2:17:16.680 want for ourselves, peace, freedom, and a beautiful life. 2:17:20.760 --> 2:17:24.160 This is it could happen here. Executive disorder, our weekly 2:17:24.200 --> 2:17:27.120 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:17:27.160 --> 2:17:29.840 and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis today 2:17:29.879 --> 2:17:33.000 I'm joined by James Stout, Mia Wong and Robert Evans. 2:17:33.320 --> 2:17:36.800 Yes, happy to be back once again stretching the definitions 2:17:36.879 --> 2:17:37.840 of the word. 2:17:37.720 --> 2:17:43.000 Here across time, space and the Internet. We have gathered 2:17:43.040 --> 2:17:46.240 to discuss the news, and this episode we are covering 2:17:46.240 --> 2:17:50.680 the week of April eighth to April sixteenth. James, you 2:17:50.680 --> 2:17:53.320 want to start us off with some short news items. 2:17:53.720 --> 2:17:56.840 Yep, I got quite a few this week, so lock in. 2:17:57.400 --> 2:18:00.560 There have been two Turkish school shootings this week. One 2:18:00.760 --> 2:18:05.240 killed ten people, the other wounded at least sixteen. Since then, 2:18:05.280 --> 2:18:07.840 there have been one hundred and sixty two arrests for 2:18:08.120 --> 2:18:13.040 either sharing footage of the shooting or suggesting that similar 2:18:13.040 --> 2:18:17.840 attacks might happen at other schools. One suspect, according to BBC, 2:18:18.120 --> 2:18:24.560 made references to US mascular Elliott Roger on his WhatsApp profile, which, yep, 2:18:25.160 --> 2:18:28.920 not great. Just to yeah. I do find it somewhat 2:18:28.920 --> 2:18:31.040 frustrating when people say this stuff only happened in the 2:18:31.160 --> 2:18:31.760 United States. 2:18:31.800 --> 2:18:34.320 No, no, it doesn't. Now it is a fair point 2:18:34.360 --> 2:18:38.119 note that like most foreign mass shootings these days are 2:18:38.240 --> 2:18:43.160 inspired and influenced by American mass shootings. We are foundational 2:18:43.240 --> 2:18:46.360 to global shooter culture. But it ain't just us. 2:18:46.800 --> 2:18:50.920 Yeah, it's not just us. Unfortunately, like culture is global 2:18:51.080 --> 2:18:52.760 and this is part of that. We also have like 2:18:52.760 --> 2:18:55.560 your regular terrorism, but this is not that. This is 2:18:55.920 --> 2:19:02.320 part of that culture. Secondly, SOUTHCOM, the United States military 2:19:02.320 --> 2:19:08.000 command responsible for, among other things, the Eastern Pacific as 2:19:08.040 --> 2:19:12.240 it calls it, has announced four strikes on small boats 2:19:12.280 --> 2:19:15.800 again this week, killing at least eleven people, according to 2:19:15.879 --> 2:19:19.360 the totals I added up from their announcements. It's probably 2:19:19.360 --> 2:19:24.080 worth noting that this either suggests that they are not 2:19:24.440 --> 2:19:27.840 striking drug boats, or that their strikes on drug boats 2:19:27.879 --> 2:19:32.280 are so spectacally unsuccessful that they are still coming across 2:19:32.280 --> 2:19:34.800 in such volumes that SOUTHCOM as having to kill people 2:19:35.160 --> 2:19:36.960 at this continuing rate. 2:19:37.040 --> 2:19:37.160 Right. 2:19:37.320 --> 2:19:41.440 Either way, it doesn't point to a successful operation. Next, 2:19:41.520 --> 2:19:45.960 the Nigerian military seems to have doubled down on strike 2:19:46.000 --> 2:19:48.840 in Jili. If people haven't been paying attention to this, 2:19:49.480 --> 2:19:52.680 Jili is a place where a market was bombed. They 2:19:52.720 --> 2:19:56.520 claimed that the market contained Boko Haram fighters more than 2:19:56.560 --> 2:19:59.440 one hundred people were killed in this strike, and. 2:19:59.400 --> 2:20:01.440 I want to miss on what happened recently at Jilli 2:20:01.959 --> 2:20:04.320 to tell them that now our new strategy is anybody 2:20:04.360 --> 2:20:05.960 a friend of a tief is a chief. I've said that, 2:20:06.040 --> 2:20:08.959 so really, anybody that is doing any trade in any 2:20:08.959 --> 2:20:11.160 support to them, we find you together with them. We're 2:20:11.200 --> 2:20:13.600 going to deal with you like the bandit, like the terrorists. 2:20:13.680 --> 2:20:15.800 So people should know, if you don't want to be harmed, 2:20:15.800 --> 2:20:17.400 please avoid where those terrorists are. 2:20:17.400 --> 2:20:19.080 I'm going to give them any support. 2:20:19.480 --> 2:20:22.040 The suggestion here is that being present in a market 2:20:22.120 --> 2:20:25.359 where these people who are terrorists will also and justifies 2:20:25.400 --> 2:20:28.040 to targeting them. 2:20:28.360 --> 2:20:28.840 Yeah. 2:20:29.160 --> 2:20:32.160 Place worth noting the US has been supporting this campaign right, 2:20:33.040 --> 2:20:35.440 and this is not the first instance in which civilians 2:20:35.440 --> 2:20:37.320 have been killed over in about this. My news letter 2:20:37.720 --> 2:20:41.160 and appeals caught in the DC circuit has prevented Judge 2:20:41.160 --> 2:20:44.920 Boseberg from continuing an investigation into whether Trump officials sent 2:20:44.959 --> 2:20:49.920 migrants to a Salvador despite his order. DC Judge Raw wrote, 2:20:50.400 --> 2:20:53.400 the government has a clear and indisputaful right determination of 2:20:53.400 --> 2:20:56.600 this judicial investigation because it is premise on an order 2:20:56.640 --> 2:21:00.160 that is insufficiently clear and specific to sustain a ar 2:21:00.320 --> 2:21:04.320 to criminal contempt. A long time court interpreter, the only 2:21:04.360 --> 2:21:07.720 one for several South Asian languages in Texas, has been 2:21:07.760 --> 2:21:12.240 detained by Ice in airport. She has withholding of removal 2:21:12.280 --> 2:21:16.520 to India, but with third country removals now increasingly on 2:21:16.560 --> 2:21:21.120 the table, that is presumably what they intend for her. Finally, 2:21:21.200 --> 2:21:24.959 in court news, another DOJ attorney has been fined for 2:21:25.080 --> 2:21:28.240 missing deadlines in a habeas case, and once again that 2:21:28.320 --> 2:21:31.520 attorney cited a crushing caseload is the reason why they'd 2:21:31.560 --> 2:21:32.600 missed those deadlines. 2:21:33.320 --> 2:21:36.480 This week, both the House and the Senate failed to 2:21:36.760 --> 2:21:41.280 advance a war powers resolution compelling the President to cease 2:21:41.440 --> 2:21:45.240 military action in Iran. The House vote in particular was 2:21:45.400 --> 2:21:48.240 very close, with two hundred and thirteen votes to two 2:21:48.360 --> 2:21:52.920 hundred and fourteen, with only one Democrat, Jared Golden, voting 2:21:52.959 --> 2:21:57.000 against it, while one Republican, Thomas Massey, voted in support. 2:21:58.320 --> 2:22:01.160 On Monday, the Trump administration agreed to restore the Pride 2:22:01.160 --> 2:22:04.000 flag to the Stonewall National Monument as a part of 2:22:04.440 --> 2:22:09.160 settling a lawsuit over its removal. This weekend, President Trump 2:22:09.200 --> 2:22:12.119 got into a fight with the Pope over the statements 2:22:12.160 --> 2:22:14.480 against the US and Israel's war in the Middle East. 2:22:14.879 --> 2:22:17.959 The president truth that the pope was quote weak on 2:22:18.120 --> 2:22:22.840 crime and terrible for foreign policy, before sharing an AI 2:22:22.879 --> 2:22:27.160 image of himself depicted as Jesus Christ. The next day, 2:22:27.240 --> 2:22:30.600 Trump claimed quote, I thought it was me as a doctor. 2:22:31.120 --> 2:22:31.440 Quote. 2:22:31.959 --> 2:22:33.680 Great stuff, great stuff. 2:22:34.600 --> 2:22:39.560 Just a briefly fact check, he is neither of those things. No, 2:22:39.680 --> 2:22:42.440 as far as I'm a west or a doctor. Yeah. 2:22:42.520 --> 2:22:44.200 Yeah, legally, I. 2:22:44.160 --> 2:22:47.400 Think it is notable and very funny that this has 2:22:47.480 --> 2:22:49.840 now shifted sniff. No, I'm not a significant but it 2:22:50.240 --> 2:22:52.640 shifted a discourse on the right to whether or not 2:22:52.680 --> 2:22:57.400 Trump is the Antichrist, with Enemy of the Show Rob 2:22:57.480 --> 2:23:02.440 Dreer saying quote, he's given off anti Christ energy. So 2:23:03.200 --> 2:23:07.360 incredible things are happening for Donald Trump among his nominal base. 2:23:09.440 --> 2:23:12.160 Meanwhile, Franklin Graham thinks it was an honest mistake. 2:23:13.360 --> 2:23:13.560 Yeah. 2:23:13.600 --> 2:23:15.240 I'm sure. I'm sure, I'm sure he does. 2:23:15.320 --> 2:23:16.800 Yeah. 2:23:16.879 --> 2:23:19.879 On Wednesday, police responded to a bomb threat at the 2:23:19.879 --> 2:23:23.879 Illinois home of one of Pope Leo's brothers, about forty 2:23:23.920 --> 2:23:28.160 miles southwest of Chicago. No explosive was found. 2:23:27.920 --> 2:23:31.720 So Congress is in the process of deciding whether or 2:23:31.840 --> 2:23:36.200 not to reauthorize section seven oh two of the Foreign 2:23:36.240 --> 2:23:39.959 Intelligence Surveillance Act or FAIZA. It's going to sunset on 2:23:40.080 --> 2:23:42.680 April twenty. We're recording this on the sixteenth, so in 2:23:42.760 --> 2:23:46.240 four days if Congress does not reauthorize it. Section oh 2:23:46.240 --> 2:23:50.640 two is what lets intelligence agencies in the US collect email, phone, 2:23:50.840 --> 2:23:54.959 and text communications from foreign nationals outside of the United States, 2:23:55.200 --> 2:23:58.560 which often leads to communications of American citizens being caught 2:23:58.600 --> 2:24:01.200 for obvious reasons. Right well, they get kind of swept 2:24:01.240 --> 2:24:05.240 up in that big net. The FBI once has asked 2:24:05.280 --> 2:24:07.280 for and has gotten some permission to like look into 2:24:07.320 --> 2:24:11.720 that database to get information on American citizens. Congress puts 2:24:11.720 --> 2:24:14.680 some limitations on that in twenty twenty four, but it 2:24:14.720 --> 2:24:18.200 remains very controversial and basically, like one of the big 2:24:18.280 --> 2:24:20.480 debates over this is and there was a vote in 2:24:20.480 --> 2:24:22.879 twenty twenty four as to whether or not to require 2:24:22.879 --> 2:24:26.920 intelligence agencies to get a warrant before accessing American communications, 2:24:27.240 --> 2:24:29.120 and that failed to pass by a single vote in 2:24:29.160 --> 2:24:31.760 the House two twelve to two twelve split in twenty 2:24:31.840 --> 2:24:35.080 twenty four. So right now, you know there's both the 2:24:35.160 --> 2:24:38.359 question of is this going to get reauthorized by Congress, 2:24:38.480 --> 2:24:41.880 in which case is like the FBI is certainly going 2:24:41.920 --> 2:24:44.320 to use it to go after like the communications of 2:24:44.400 --> 2:24:47.640 quote unquote antifa, right of like people who have been 2:24:47.640 --> 2:24:51.879 caught because they've been naming foreign groups, anti fascist groups, 2:24:51.320 --> 2:24:57.280 like foreign terrorist organizations. That's very obviously like one of 2:24:57.280 --> 2:25:00.240 the things this is going to be used for kind 2:25:00.240 --> 2:25:02.720 of unclear, like what is going to happen here where 2:25:02.760 --> 2:25:04.600 Congress is going to land. I did find there's an 2:25:04.600 --> 2:25:07.360 interesting article in Just Security where they're very worried that 2:25:08.040 --> 2:25:12.080 because of how very obvious it is that federal law 2:25:12.160 --> 2:25:15.880 enforcement will abuse this section seven h two will just 2:25:15.959 --> 2:25:19.520 kind of go away entirely, and the useful aspects of 2:25:19.560 --> 2:25:22.119 it as they see it will no longer be possible. 2:25:22.200 --> 2:25:24.560 That's not my primary concern, but it's interesting to read 2:25:24.600 --> 2:25:26.560 someone being like, oh my god, if these guys go 2:25:26.680 --> 2:25:30.520 so crazy, like if they keep refusing to like allow 2:25:30.640 --> 2:25:33.320 warrants to be entered into the process and keep insisting 2:25:33.360 --> 2:25:37.080 on going after like anti fat like left wing domestic terrorists, 2:25:37.320 --> 2:25:39.800 they're going to lose our ability to like surveil foreign 2:25:39.879 --> 2:25:42.360 nationals entirely. Is kind of the concern from a lot 2:25:42.360 --> 2:25:46.080 of security people. Anyway, Just probably good that you're aware 2:25:46.080 --> 2:25:50.360 of that. So probably the biggest international piece of news 2:25:50.959 --> 2:25:55.039 this week that we're covering is the defeat of Victor Orbon, 2:25:55.840 --> 2:26:00.520 who was often considered to be like a quasi dictatorial figure. 2:26:00.640 --> 2:26:04.000 I mean, he arose to power in Hungary legally, but 2:26:04.160 --> 2:26:07.240 his party like as soon as he took power more 2:26:07.280 --> 2:26:11.080 than a decade ago, he's basically been cracking down on 2:26:11.120 --> 2:26:15.240 the ability of counterparties to like organize. There's been like 2:26:15.320 --> 2:26:19.840 massive crackdowns on the like ability of like it's a 2:26:19.879 --> 2:26:23.279 lot of prototype Trump stuff, Like they went after professors, 2:26:23.280 --> 2:26:25.480 they went after colleges, they went after like public funds 2:26:25.520 --> 2:26:28.320 to educational institutions, to libraries. 2:26:28.680 --> 2:26:33.600 Yeah, he pioneered the modern tactics of undermining liberal democracy 2:26:33.760 --> 2:26:35.360 via the legal system. 2:26:35.800 --> 2:26:37.879 Yes, yes, it's like him and Aired Wanner sort of 2:26:37.920 --> 2:26:38.240 like yeah. 2:26:38.280 --> 2:26:42.199 Two, he went after the LGBT community, tried to criminalize 2:26:42.200 --> 2:26:45.560 like criminalize like pride events and stuff. And also like 2:26:46.120 --> 2:26:48.440 in a big a big part of like Orbon was 2:26:48.440 --> 2:26:51.039 obviously very anti migrant, like anti we don't want to 2:26:51.080 --> 2:26:55.080 take in, you know, particularly during the Syrian refugee crisis 2:26:55.080 --> 2:26:57.480 that was like a big moment for them. But he 2:26:57.560 --> 2:27:00.320 was also really anti EU. You know Hungary is a 2:27:00.360 --> 2:27:03.200 part of the EU, but Orbond's party was very e 2:27:03.600 --> 2:27:07.480 like the Fidez Party was super EU critical, and in 2:27:07.520 --> 2:27:10.359 the last decade and change that they've been in power, 2:27:11.040 --> 2:27:14.800 the Fidez Party has been massively corrupt and in fact 2:27:14.879 --> 2:27:17.840 has kind of turned the Hungarian government to the extent 2:27:17.959 --> 2:27:20.959 like you know, there was corruption before obviously, but he's 2:27:21.000 --> 2:27:25.280 woven his party into the very workings of the government, 2:27:25.320 --> 2:27:28.800 primarily as a way to collect money from people and 2:27:28.879 --> 2:27:32.160 to distribute government funds to like these right wing pet 2:27:32.200 --> 2:27:34.480 projects that they had, which we'll I'll talk about a 2:27:34.480 --> 2:27:36.760 little more in a second. But this started to piss 2:27:36.760 --> 2:27:39.840 people off in Hungary, particularly because the government wasn't doing 2:27:39.879 --> 2:27:44.040 a good job of governing, like the Hungarian economy remained 2:27:44.040 --> 2:27:47.920 one of the worst in Europe. Unemployment remained high. Like 2:27:48.080 --> 2:27:50.720 none of the promises that like, well, if we're if 2:27:50.720 --> 2:27:53.200 we kind of pushed the EU away, and if we 2:27:53.280 --> 2:27:56.480 keep all if we keep these migrants out, the economy 2:27:56.520 --> 2:28:00.000 will get better. What really happened was fides robbed everyone blind, 2:28:00.200 --> 2:28:03.000 and Orbon robbed everyone blind and put his cronies in 2:28:03.080 --> 2:28:05.560 positions of power in the hope that he would never 2:28:05.600 --> 2:28:09.119 be forced out. Now, Orbon's an interesting figure in part 2:28:09.120 --> 2:28:12.240 because he got his start as a pro democracy figure 2:28:12.560 --> 2:28:15.480 during the latter years of communism in Hungary. He was 2:28:15.560 --> 2:28:19.520 a liberal like democratic activist, and in fact, the guy 2:28:19.560 --> 2:28:22.760 who just beat him, Peter Magyar, we'll talk about his 2:28:22.840 --> 2:28:26.640 name also in a second, grew up with like a 2:28:26.720 --> 2:28:30.360 poster of Orbon on his bedroom wall because Orbon, you 2:28:30.400 --> 2:28:32.840 know again, communism was coming to an end. Everyone was 2:28:32.959 --> 2:28:35.640 very excited, all the young people were very excited about democracy, 2:28:35.840 --> 2:28:38.440 and Orbon was like a figure and he was still 2:28:38.480 --> 2:28:41.039 he was never like a leftist figure when I say liberal, 2:28:41.200 --> 2:28:45.760 but he was a figure of like democratizing values. Now 2:28:45.840 --> 2:28:50.440 Magyar himself is an odd guy. He's forty five years old. 2:28:50.920 --> 2:28:55.640 And the party that he ran with, the Tisa Party Tisza, 2:28:56.600 --> 2:29:00.440 was a party before him, but like not a living 2:29:00.480 --> 2:29:02.840 one really, like it had been a political party and 2:29:02.879 --> 2:29:05.520 it had basically died out to irrelevance. I think they 2:29:05.560 --> 2:29:08.360 had a couple of dudes kind of kicking around. It's 2:29:08.400 --> 2:29:11.000 almost like if there were still a tiny wig party 2:29:11.400 --> 2:29:14.040 that like four or five guys met in like twice 2:29:14.080 --> 2:29:16.039 a year to like have their little wig meeting. 2:29:16.480 --> 2:29:18.360 The bold coming back that. 2:29:18.680 --> 2:29:22.680 Some guy who's like a Barack Obama level political mind 2:29:22.760 --> 2:29:26.920 in terms of his skill in organizing and charisma came 2:29:26.959 --> 2:29:31.920 in and turned that party into a fucking electoral powerhouse 2:29:32.280 --> 2:29:37.039 that completely annihilated the previous leading party in an election. 2:29:37.440 --> 2:29:41.280 Like that's basically what happened in Hungary. It's a very 2:29:41.320 --> 2:29:46.440 weird story. And Magyar is definitely brilliant in terms of 2:29:46.560 --> 2:29:49.800 he is someone who is objectively very intelligent when it 2:29:49.840 --> 2:29:54.400 comes to how to build power in a political organization 2:29:55.000 --> 2:29:58.240 and how to win elections and how to message to people. 2:29:58.240 --> 2:29:59.959 He's very good at all of that stuff. 2:30:00.520 --> 2:30:03.840 Now, this is not like a leftist or a progressive 2:30:04.360 --> 2:30:07.200 like hero type figure, and he has not pretended to be, 2:30:07.280 --> 2:30:09.320 to be very clear, that's not how he built himself 2:30:09.320 --> 2:30:12.000 at all. In fact, in some ways he's more conservative 2:30:12.000 --> 2:30:15.000 than Orbon. His party that is a party is like 2:30:15.080 --> 2:30:17.959 even like Orbon at least had like a guest worker 2:30:18.000 --> 2:30:21.560 program and stuff, and Maggar's against even a lot of 2:30:21.600 --> 2:30:25.240 that stuff, Like he is actually more hostile to having 2:30:25.800 --> 2:30:29.960 like like immigration, but he's not anti EU and he's not. 2:30:30.160 --> 2:30:34.920 What's interesting is like he's really kind of hedging in between, 2:30:35.240 --> 2:30:38.000 like hedging his I don't know entirely how to describe this. 2:30:38.040 --> 2:30:41.039 He's like writing a very weird line because he is 2:30:41.080 --> 2:30:44.920 not anti Ukraine, but he's also against Hungary sending weapons 2:30:44.920 --> 2:30:48.520 a directly to Ukraine. But his oldlatitude is like, I'm 2:30:48.520 --> 2:30:51.200 not super pro what you guys are doing, but I'm 2:30:51.200 --> 2:30:54.240 not going to fight anything in the EU Parliament. Hungary's 2:30:54.240 --> 2:30:57.039 going to stop. Hungary has been like a spoiler in 2:30:57.160 --> 2:30:59.760 EU politics for a while, where they would just kind 2:30:59.800 --> 2:31:02.400 of to fuck with whatever the EU wants to do, 2:31:02.720 --> 2:31:06.440 especially used to regards aiding Ukraine and Magyar's whole thing 2:31:06.480 --> 2:31:08.240 is like, I'm just gonna stop, like I'm not gonna 2:31:08.280 --> 2:31:10.920 ful throatedly support the stuff you guys want. I'm just 2:31:10.959 --> 2:31:13.840 gonna stop being an anchor weighing you down, which is 2:31:13.959 --> 2:31:17.360 enough like for the EU to be excited about this. Yeah, 2:31:17.400 --> 2:31:20.879 like finally, this guy Hungary is not gonna be Hungary 2:31:20.920 --> 2:31:24.080 is a weird history of acting like an anchor on 2:31:24.680 --> 2:31:28.119 other polities. Sometimes that's kind of what was going on 2:31:28.320 --> 2:31:30.760 in the Austro Hungarian Empire in like the pre World 2:31:30.800 --> 2:31:34.320 War One era, where Hungary saw itself as very separate 2:31:34.440 --> 2:31:38.600 from the Austria Hungary aspect of things, and would vote 2:31:38.640 --> 2:31:41.039 to like fuck with the military because they wanted their 2:31:41.040 --> 2:31:43.680 own military to get more powerful. It's not entirely the same, 2:31:43.800 --> 2:31:47.840 it's just interesting the level of like contrarianus that's kind 2:31:47.840 --> 2:31:52.120 of baked into a lot of Hungarian politics. I mentioned 2:31:52.120 --> 2:31:55.560 something about Peter's name. So the Magyars are like the 2:31:55.640 --> 2:31:59.240 original like nomadic horse warrior people of the area we 2:31:59.320 --> 2:32:03.160 know as Hungary today, the name Magyar just means Hungarian now, 2:32:03.200 --> 2:32:05.720 but it came from the most powerful of these tribes 2:32:05.800 --> 2:32:09.800 of nomadic warriors. And someone had made a point of 2:32:09.840 --> 2:32:11.600 this on I was ad of Twitter or Blue Sky 2:32:11.680 --> 2:32:14.440 around the election that like Peter Magyar is basically if 2:32:14.440 --> 2:32:17.760 a guy was named Johnny American, right, Like that's like 2:32:18.080 --> 2:32:21.000 literally like his name could not be more patriotic. 2:32:21.240 --> 2:32:21.480 Yeah. 2:32:21.680 --> 2:32:22.040 Yeah. 2:32:23.080 --> 2:32:25.879 Adolf Hitler defeated by a yeah in Germany. 2:32:26.120 --> 2:32:29.600 And Maggar became a force on the political stage in 2:32:29.680 --> 2:32:32.400 Hungary very suddenly. He wasn't really a major figure. He 2:32:32.480 --> 2:32:34.240 was kind of actually connected to a lot of because 2:32:34.240 --> 2:32:36.440 again he was a supporter of the Fadez party. He 2:32:36.480 --> 2:32:39.200 had a lot of friends who were members of Orbon's government. 2:32:39.200 --> 2:32:41.800 One of his buddies was Orbon's chief of staff. In 2:32:41.800 --> 2:32:44.160 two thousand and six, he married a woman, judyte Varga, 2:32:44.240 --> 2:32:47.480 who was the Minister of Justice for the Fadez party 2:32:47.560 --> 2:32:50.959 under Orbon right, and he'd worked as like a diplomat 2:32:51.000 --> 2:32:53.760 in Brussels, so he's like a guy who's part of 2:32:53.800 --> 2:32:57.360 this government apparatus that Orbon puts into place. But in 2:32:57.360 --> 2:33:01.039 twenty twenty fours there's this huge scandal where the Ministry 2:33:01.080 --> 2:33:04.240 of Justice and like his wife by which I mean 2:33:04.280 --> 2:33:06.440 his well now his ex wife because they split, and 2:33:06.480 --> 2:33:09.960 then his ex wife pardons a man who had gotten 2:33:10.000 --> 2:33:12.320 convicted for covering up a sex abuse scandal at a 2:33:12.400 --> 2:33:16.360 children's home, and Magyar becomes like one of the most 2:33:16.440 --> 2:33:19.360 visible figures on the backlash, being like this entire party 2:33:19.440 --> 2:33:22.600 is corrupt, this is super fucked up, and he's coming 2:33:22.600 --> 2:33:24.360 from a position of and I was a part of it, 2:33:24.440 --> 2:33:27.119 so I know, like I'm an insider who's broken from 2:33:27.160 --> 2:33:30.240 the group because how corrupt and bad this is, and 2:33:30.280 --> 2:33:35.119 there's some messed up stuff in there. Magyar does attack 2:33:35.360 --> 2:33:40.000 Orbon and Fidez because his ex wife gets fired along 2:33:40.040 --> 2:33:42.720 with another woman. When this scandal becomes a problem, and 2:33:42.760 --> 2:33:45.800 he accuses the government of like hiding behind women's skirts. 2:33:46.400 --> 2:33:51.600 But he's also got he's an odd pers There's some 2:33:52.200 --> 2:33:57.920 uncomfortable not damning or anything, just some like uncomfortable realities 2:33:58.000 --> 2:33:59.720 about him. And I want to read a quote from 2:33:59.760 --> 2:34:03.280 an en PR article that came out recently that talks 2:34:03.320 --> 2:34:05.600 about some of this. Magar has blamed the end of 2:34:05.640 --> 2:34:08.840 his marriage to Varga, at least in part on political disagreements. Notably, 2:34:08.920 --> 2:34:11.440 just months before the divorce was finalized in twenty twenty three, 2:34:11.600 --> 2:34:14.680 he secretly recorded one of their conversations, and it Varga 2:34:14.840 --> 2:34:17.480 was talking about an attempt by government aids to interfere 2:34:17.480 --> 2:34:20.240 in a corruption case. Maggar released a recording in the 2:34:20.320 --> 2:34:22.680 wake of the pardon scandal the following year, which only 2:34:22.680 --> 2:34:25.800 added fuel to the fire and credence to his corruption claims, 2:34:26.560 --> 2:34:29.760 and his wife resigns from public life altogether after this. 2:34:30.160 --> 2:34:33.279 She has accused him of verbal and physical abuse, including 2:34:33.320 --> 2:34:35.880 like locking her in a room, and obviously, like the 2:34:35.920 --> 2:34:38.599 whole recording account, there's a lot of there's some uncomfortable 2:34:38.640 --> 2:34:41.880 stuff about this guy. But that said, she's also super 2:34:41.879 --> 2:34:45.520 corrupt and like doing a lot of really so I 2:34:46.200 --> 2:34:49.400 don't know, and no one really does if you read 2:34:49.400 --> 2:34:51.080 a lot about this guy. One of the things people 2:34:51.080 --> 2:34:52.560 point is that we don't etually know a lot about 2:34:52.600 --> 2:34:55.000 him other than he's really good at whipping a party 2:34:55.040 --> 2:34:56.720 into shape and winning an election. 2:34:57.120 --> 2:34:59.200 Right like, he proved that much, But we. 2:34:59.120 --> 2:35:02.840 Don't know much about him. Even Orbon has made anti 2:35:03.080 --> 2:35:08.640 LGBTQ rights a big part of his platform, especially as 2:35:08.400 --> 2:35:12.320 his position has gotten weaker, He's tried to like supercharge 2:35:12.320 --> 2:35:15.600 that as a way to hold on the power. Magyar's 2:35:15.640 --> 2:35:20.600 not pro queer rights, but he's not anti queer rights. 2:35:19.920 --> 2:35:24.320 He has criticized the Orbon government from going after LGBTQ 2:35:24.480 --> 2:35:27.120 people and says that they're doing it to distract citizens 2:35:27.160 --> 2:35:29.440 from the issues, which is true. He said that he 2:35:29.440 --> 2:35:31.920 supports the right to assembly, he has not said that 2:35:31.959 --> 2:35:36.160 he supports LGBTQ rights. That said, if going from a 2:35:36.160 --> 2:35:38.400 guy who's like, I actively want to prosecute people for 2:35:38.440 --> 2:35:40.879 being queer to a guy who's like, I just don't 2:35:40.879 --> 2:35:43.720 want to talk about it is probably an improvement. 2:35:44.520 --> 2:35:47.240 It's worth noting that in his victory speech he did 2:35:47.640 --> 2:35:53.880 make two references to LGBTQ rights, saying that quote everyone 2:35:53.959 --> 2:35:56.200 can live with whoever they love, as long as they 2:35:56.200 --> 2:36:00.480 do not violate laws or harm others, and also said, quote, 2:36:00.600 --> 2:36:02.800 we want to make a country where no one is 2:36:02.879 --> 2:36:07.160 persecuted because they think differently, or because someone loves in 2:36:07.200 --> 2:36:08.920 a different way to others. 2:36:09.280 --> 2:36:09.840 Unquote. 2:36:10.600 --> 2:36:13.800 This is again broadly, a really good thing, and it's 2:36:13.840 --> 2:36:17.720 also good. It's good in Hungary, it's also good worldwide 2:36:17.720 --> 2:36:21.120 because Hungary has been for years not just a major 2:36:21.160 --> 2:36:24.039 supporter of far right groups. One of the things Magyar 2:36:24.120 --> 2:36:27.960 pointed out as soon as he won election is that 2:36:28.240 --> 2:36:32.160 there's evidence that they have found that the Fidez party 2:36:32.280 --> 2:36:37.200 was using Hungarian governmental funds to support a couple of 2:36:37.480 --> 2:36:40.320 number one to support Seapack because they hold like a 2:36:40.400 --> 2:36:44.760 foreign seapac gatherings in Hungary. So like Seapack has been 2:36:44.840 --> 2:36:49.960 getting money from the Hungarian government, and Magyar said, like, 2:36:50.040 --> 2:36:52.959 that's not fine, We're not okay with that. I think 2:36:53.000 --> 2:36:56.480 that's actually illegal. And he has also noted that that 2:36:56.600 --> 2:37:00.119 government money was going to support the Matthias Corvinus Call 2:37:00.560 --> 2:37:03.680 or MCC, which was receiving funds from the Orbanne government, 2:37:03.680 --> 2:37:06.080 and that that is going to stop now. The MCC 2:37:06.600 --> 2:37:09.200 is both like it's an organization in Hungary, but they 2:37:09.200 --> 2:37:11.119 also have a bunch of like foreign They've got one 2:37:11.120 --> 2:37:14.240 in like Romania, there's one in Brussels. They have like 2:37:14.240 --> 2:37:17.200 a bunch of foreign branches and they use the MCC 2:37:17.800 --> 2:37:20.080 and fund it in order to fund the fire right 2:37:20.200 --> 2:37:24.640 in other European countries. Right, Like the MCC supports like 2:37:24.680 --> 2:37:28.279 the one in Brussels supports in Brussels local fire right groups. 2:37:28.600 --> 2:37:31.600 And it's been very a fairly effective way of like 2:37:31.720 --> 2:37:36.000 funding some of these like and oftentimes like Nazi adjacent organizations. 2:37:36.959 --> 2:37:39.160 And that money is looking to go away. And there's 2:37:39.160 --> 2:37:41.680 an interesting Politico article about some of this that talk 2:37:41.800 --> 2:37:44.920 to the MCC Brussels people, like the offshoot of this 2:37:44.959 --> 2:37:48.320 in Brussels. For its part, MCC Brussels said that Sunday's 2:37:48.320 --> 2:37:50.039 election result will have no bearing on its work in 2:37:50.080 --> 2:37:53.039 the city. As an independent organization. We will continue to research, 2:37:53.040 --> 2:37:55.760 analyze and advocate around our core concerns and continue to 2:37:55.760 --> 2:38:01.359 hold the European Union institutions to account. That's the communications manager. 2:38:01.640 --> 2:38:03.840 And the article goes on to note MCC Brussels gets 2:38:03.840 --> 2:38:06.720 almost alledge cash ninety nine percent, coming to just over 2:38:06.760 --> 2:38:09.040 six million euros according to its listing in the last 2:38:09.080 --> 2:38:12.519 financial year as part of a grant from Matthias Corvinus Collegium, 2:38:12.600 --> 2:38:15.320 which received a ten percent stake in Hungary's lucrative oil 2:38:15.360 --> 2:38:18.080 and gas company MOL from Orbonn's government in twenty twenty. 2:38:18.240 --> 2:38:21.080 That's certainly going away too. This is a major blow 2:38:21.160 --> 2:38:24.240 to far right organizing in Europe and in the United States. 2:38:24.520 --> 2:38:26.920 And it's more than just losing money, losing a space 2:38:26.959 --> 2:38:29.320 to gather, it's losing a proof of concept. 2:38:29.600 --> 2:38:29.840 Right. 2:38:30.320 --> 2:38:33.080 Orbon was the guy they pointed to, is like, this 2:38:33.160 --> 2:38:35.880 is what we want to do in America, not just America, 2:38:36.000 --> 2:38:39.240 but very directly, and Orbon just flamed the fuck out 2:38:39.280 --> 2:38:42.160 because he sucked at governing. Now, what happens next is 2:38:42.200 --> 2:38:45.600 going to depend on whether or not Magyar prosecutes Fede's 2:38:45.640 --> 2:38:48.920 party members prosecutes Orbon and his cronies. He said he's 2:38:48.959 --> 2:38:51.840 going to, so we'll see, and that's all I gotta 2:38:51.840 --> 2:38:52.360 say for now. 2:38:53.400 --> 2:38:56.080 Yeah, I think it's worth noting that, like in Europe, 2:38:56.120 --> 2:38:59.720 we had this somewhat with Donald Tusk in Poland right 2:39:00.440 --> 2:39:03.000 and what we have seen there, for instance, on immigration, 2:39:04.080 --> 2:39:07.720 has been a continued movement to the right. Right like 2:39:07.920 --> 2:39:12.840 Tusk has been like talking about not complying with EU 2:39:12.879 --> 2:39:17.240 immigration rulings. And I think that's probably something that people 2:39:17.240 --> 2:39:19.560 who are interesting which way this might go should look at. 2:39:19.600 --> 2:39:22.039 But that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. That 2:39:22.120 --> 2:39:26.400 all that is out now that Aubank conceded, right Like, 2:39:26.480 --> 2:39:30.680 he had multiple US politicians, including the Vice president, campaigning 2:39:30.720 --> 2:39:33.879 for him, and he lost, and he admitted he lost, 2:39:33.920 --> 2:39:35.959 and that is a very good sign. 2:39:36.480 --> 2:39:39.680 Part of why he conceded is he thinks that he's 2:39:39.680 --> 2:39:42.360 got enough people in the woven end of the government 2:39:42.800 --> 2:39:44.760 that he can return to power, or at least his 2:39:44.800 --> 2:39:47.879 party can so. Meg again, Magyar's big challenge is going 2:39:47.920 --> 2:39:49.400 to be making sure that doesn't happen. 2:39:50.040 --> 2:39:54.240 Yeah, yeah, and whatever else. I think it's very very 2:39:54.360 --> 2:39:57.360 unlikely that Magyar is going to be doing shit like, hey, 2:39:57.400 --> 2:39:59.320 we're going to use face We're going to threaten to 2:39:59.400 --> 2:40:01.680 use facial cognition on everyone who shows up to a 2:40:01.680 --> 2:40:04.480 Pride protest and a Pride march and arrest them, so, 2:40:05.600 --> 2:40:07.080 you know, hopefully getting better. 2:40:07.560 --> 2:40:14.520 Yeah. I again, he was willing to wire tap his wife. 2:40:15.879 --> 2:40:18.640 There's no evidence that he takes like pleasure in fucking 2:40:18.680 --> 2:40:21.240 with people. Like that doesn't seem to be as vibe, 2:40:22.040 --> 2:40:22.800 so hopefully not. 2:40:23.200 --> 2:40:26.480 Yeah, all right, should we take a break? We shall, 2:40:26.959 --> 2:40:27.600 all right. 2:40:27.600 --> 2:40:33.120 Then we will be back for more news. 2:40:40.120 --> 2:40:42.360 So one of the other pieces of news coming out 2:40:42.400 --> 2:40:47.800 of the right wing sphere is this really incredibly staged 2:40:48.920 --> 2:40:54.720 photo op that Donald Trump had where he like got 2:40:54.760 --> 2:40:58.840 this really well photographed, like fake door Dash order and 2:40:58.879 --> 2:41:01.160 then tipped tip them in one hundred dollars. That was 2:41:01.160 --> 2:41:03.200 supposed to be a promotion for his note taps on 2:41:03.280 --> 2:41:07.760 tips thing. There's a lot of stuff going on here. 2:41:08.360 --> 2:41:10.240 There's been a whole bunch of stuff because people immediately 2:41:10.280 --> 2:41:12.920 figured out that this person is someone who's been basically 2:41:13.040 --> 2:41:15.560 used to lobby for this policy a bunch. She shows 2:41:15.640 --> 2:41:18.800 up all over the place, like testifying in front of 2:41:18.840 --> 2:41:21.480 congressional committees and stuff about no tax for tips and 2:41:21.560 --> 2:41:24.320 like or like legislatures all over the country. There's a 2:41:24.320 --> 2:41:26.000 whole bunch of kind of funny stuff where she gets 2:41:26.000 --> 2:41:27.600 asked if she would vote for Trump and whether she 2:41:27.640 --> 2:41:31.800 supports trans athletes, and she's just like there's also a 2:41:31.840 --> 2:41:36.880 whole story about sort of door Dash's pr person just 2:41:37.240 --> 2:41:40.280 having a crash out and getting extremely mad online. 2:41:42.760 --> 2:41:44.560 Me don't don't put it in the newspaper that they 2:41:44.600 --> 2:41:45.040 got mad. 2:41:46.600 --> 2:41:51.240 It's really amazing. But I think the actual story here 2:41:51.400 --> 2:41:54.040 is about no tax on tips as a political project, 2:41:55.240 --> 2:41:58.160 and I think the actual most egregious part of this 2:41:58.200 --> 2:42:03.400 whole event was the White House. They operate like fifty 2:42:03.440 --> 2:42:06.200 five Twitter accounts. One of them the Guardian points out 2:42:06.200 --> 2:42:10.160 as this like rapid response thing, and it posts this 2:42:10.320 --> 2:42:13.440 video where that's captioned about how this woman said she 2:42:13.840 --> 2:42:18.920 saved eleven thousand dollars in taxes on tips. That's not true, 2:42:19.000 --> 2:42:24.360 it can't be true. It's just mathematically a lie. The 2:42:24.400 --> 2:42:26.800 actual policy and the Guardian's doing some good work on 2:42:26.840 --> 2:42:30.959 this lays out quote. But the no tax on tips 2:42:31.000 --> 2:42:34.000 policy is only a temporary deduction of up to twenty 2:42:34.000 --> 2:42:37.800 five thousand dollars in tips for eligible workers annually. Tipped 2:42:37.840 --> 2:42:41.520 workers still have to report their tips as income. So 2:42:42.360 --> 2:42:45.320 there's a lot of things going on here. One this 2:42:45.400 --> 2:42:48.039 is all all of the tax on tips off is temporary. 2:42:48.040 --> 2:42:49.520 We talked about this when it came out. It was 2:42:49.520 --> 2:42:51.800 designed to sort of phase out the moment Trump leaves 2:42:51.800 --> 2:42:55.680 office or supposed to leave office, and b. Dordash also 2:42:55.720 --> 2:42:57.600 later had to say oh no, no, no, no, she did 2:42:57.600 --> 2:43:02.600 not save eleven thousand dollars in tax money on tips. 2:43:03.160 --> 2:43:05.000 They were like, no, no, no, she made eleven thousand 2:43:05.040 --> 2:43:06.959 dollars in tips and didn't have to pay taxes on it. 2:43:07.680 --> 2:43:11.279 But first off, she did not make eleven thousand dollars 2:43:11.280 --> 2:43:14.400 on tips. Like, you can't make eleven thousand dollars in 2:43:14.400 --> 2:43:18.960 tips doing DoorDash delivery. It's basically impossible. And I'm very 2:43:19.000 --> 2:43:21.959 sure that she didn't do this because also if you 2:43:22.000 --> 2:43:23.720 look at and the Guardian with you or not the Guardian, 2:43:23.760 --> 2:43:26.959 I'm ink with you some of the earlier you know, interviews, 2:43:27.000 --> 2:43:29.160 because she's been on a PR circuit about this for 2:43:29.200 --> 2:43:31.240 a while. She was on Fox News, and on Fox 2:43:31.280 --> 2:43:34.560 News she claims that she'd saved three to four thousand 2:43:34.640 --> 2:43:37.920 dollars and that eventually that like number amount of money 2:43:37.920 --> 2:43:40.360 that she'd saved eventually gets bumped up to eleven thousand. 2:43:40.480 --> 2:43:43.520 I think, though, what happened is that she maybe got 2:43:44.200 --> 2:43:47.400 she's claiming originally that she got like three thousand dollars 2:43:47.400 --> 2:43:50.480 in tips. There's also another issue here, which is at 2:43:50.520 --> 2:43:53.360 like eleven thousand dollars, it's like not clear if that's 2:43:53.400 --> 2:43:55.720 even enough money to qualify as having to pay income 2:43:55.760 --> 2:43:59.160 taxes in Alaska. Like this is all, this is all 2:43:59.200 --> 2:44:01.600 basically just a night there. And but the reason this 2:44:01.640 --> 2:44:04.920 is all actually happening is that the note tax on 2:44:04.959 --> 2:44:10.560 tips thing is this giant pr campaign that DoorDash, particularly 2:44:10.600 --> 2:44:13.760 DoorDash but also some of the other uh, some of 2:44:13.800 --> 2:44:17.480 the other companies have been doing as basically a propaganda 2:44:17.520 --> 2:44:20.200 thing in order to avoid there being attention on the 2:44:20.200 --> 2:44:22.640 fact that they just don't pay their workers a living 2:44:22.680 --> 2:44:26.840 wage and what so. One of the really important things 2:44:26.840 --> 2:44:29.800 that's almost never talked about with DoorDash and with with 2:44:29.920 --> 2:44:33.560 all of these sort of like these these delivery apps, right, 2:44:34.080 --> 2:44:37.200 is that if you are a restaurant worker and you're 2:44:37.200 --> 2:44:39.080 making something for a DoorDash order, and this particularly like 2:44:39.120 --> 2:44:41.200 you know, for example, if you work at a coffee shop, right, 2:44:42.000 --> 2:44:46.840 you don't get tips on DoorDash orders. So when when when? 2:44:46.920 --> 2:44:49.120 When when these things? When these orders started coming through 2:44:49.640 --> 2:44:53.680 in like sort of the past like five six, eight years, right, 2:44:54.760 --> 2:44:59.080 what happened was that this was basically a giant everyone 2:44:59.080 --> 2:45:01.720 who's working like in a restaurant or in a in 2:45:01.720 --> 2:45:03.720 like a cafe or whatever, you're getting it from those 2:45:03.760 --> 2:45:05.840 people all had massive speed ups where they just don't 2:45:05.879 --> 2:45:07.280 get and they don't and they don't get paid the 2:45:07.320 --> 2:45:09.760 regular tips that they would you know, be relying on 2:45:09.840 --> 2:45:11.879 to even sort of have a living gage wage. Right, 2:45:11.959 --> 2:45:15.200 So these people all got speed ups. And then on 2:45:15.280 --> 2:45:18.520 top of that, right, so you are, if you're ordering 2:45:18.520 --> 2:45:20.840 from one of these sites, right, you're probably are paying 2:45:20.840 --> 2:45:24.920 a tip. But that tip money has basically been you know, 2:45:24.959 --> 2:45:27.200 it's been extracted from the restaurant workers. But then now 2:45:27.200 --> 2:45:30.480 it's being used as a way to subsidize, right, as 2:45:30.480 --> 2:45:33.760 a way to subsidize door Dash not paying actual fucking wages. 2:45:34.760 --> 2:45:38.200 And so what this entire project is is is it's 2:45:38.280 --> 2:45:42.720 this It's this giant attempt to basically continue this process 2:45:42.760 --> 2:45:45.280 and solidify this process and stop all of the organizing 2:45:45.280 --> 2:45:47.640 campaigns that have been happening against door Dash to get 2:45:47.640 --> 2:45:51.000 them to like actually fucking pay people. And what's happening 2:45:51.040 --> 2:45:53.039 instead is that they're trying They're trying to shift everyone's 2:45:53.040 --> 2:45:55.080 focus to like, oh, hey, we can give you like 2:45:55.200 --> 2:45:58.360 no tax on tips, even though what these tips are 2:45:58.400 --> 2:46:01.000 and what the system that they've built is is is 2:46:01.080 --> 2:46:05.360 it system to basically exploit both restaurant workers and also 2:46:05.400 --> 2:46:07.400 specifically to make sure they don't ever have to fucking 2:46:07.440 --> 2:46:10.760 pay their workers any amount of money. And that's the 2:46:10.879 --> 2:46:14.880 actual that's the actual political ramifications of what's happening here 2:46:14.959 --> 2:46:20.039 beyond guy has funny crash out in social media, and 2:46:20.160 --> 2:46:23.040 I think it's very bleak that there's been basically no 2:46:23.160 --> 2:46:28.200 coverage of the sort of totality of what this is 2:46:28.240 --> 2:46:28.959 doing to people. 2:46:30.200 --> 2:46:34.119 To circle back to the potentiality of the new Prime 2:46:34.120 --> 2:46:39.960 Minister of Hungary prosecuting the former corrupt administration, let's turn 2:46:40.160 --> 2:46:45.200 to California. The former front runner in the California governor's race, 2:46:45.280 --> 2:46:47.800 Eric Swalwell, dropped out of the election last week and 2:46:47.840 --> 2:46:52.240 subsequently resigned from Congress amidst sexual assault allegations from multiple women. 2:46:53.680 --> 2:46:57.520 The new front runner is billionaire Tom Steyer, who ran 2:46:57.560 --> 2:47:00.520 for president back in twenty twenty. You might remember him 2:47:00.680 --> 2:47:04.880 from the Yeah, good, okay clip of where he tried 2:47:04.879 --> 2:47:07.600 to talk to Bernie Sanders as Bernie and Elizabeth Warren 2:47:07.640 --> 2:47:10.600 were beefing on stage after a presidential debate. 2:47:11.879 --> 2:47:13.600 Well, is she the guy? Is she the guy who 2:47:13.640 --> 2:47:16.440 had that story about killing someone in Vietnam? Or was 2:47:16.480 --> 2:47:18.600 that was another one of the unhinged guys that. 2:47:19.080 --> 2:47:22.960 Ye Stire wasn't super unhinged. He was a little bit boring, 2:47:23.879 --> 2:47:27.280 but nominally one of the more progressive people in that 2:47:27.400 --> 2:47:30.480 overstuffed race despite being a billionaire. A lot of his 2:47:30.600 --> 2:47:35.199 poll is talking about we should tax billionaires like me more. 2:47:35.280 --> 2:47:37.520 I know, I'm a billionaire. I'll be fine. That's kind 2:47:37.520 --> 2:47:39.680 of his that's kind of part of his stick. 2:47:40.080 --> 2:47:43.000 Look, my opinion is as a former Californian and just 2:47:43.040 --> 2:47:46.920 someone who's voted in California in the long grand history 2:47:46.959 --> 2:47:51.840 of California governors, he would be one of the better options. 2:47:52.080 --> 2:47:57.800 That California is fat, which is the bar, really low bar. 2:47:58.600 --> 2:48:01.119 Yeah, and the race this year is just shite. 2:48:01.440 --> 2:48:06.440 It's it's again like Arnold Schwarzenegger was the governor and 2:48:06.520 --> 2:48:08.240 like firmly middle of the pack. 2:48:08.720 --> 2:48:11.640 Like it's absolute bollocks. Now, Like sorry, I know I'm 2:48:11.640 --> 2:48:14.680 saying very British words, but it is upsetting. 2:48:14.959 --> 2:48:18.879 It is funny to describe the California governor's racist bollocks. 2:48:19.120 --> 2:48:22.280 It's bollocks many times. 2:48:22.320 --> 2:48:25.000 I have to live here, I have to pay taxes 2:48:25.000 --> 2:48:25.959 to these clowns. 2:48:26.320 --> 2:48:30.080 I mean, it's California, baby, Like you're gonna periodically have 2:48:30.160 --> 2:48:34.039 governor raises that are just like shit shows, largely to 2:48:34.160 --> 2:48:36.000 provide content for the media. 2:48:36.240 --> 2:48:37.400 Yeah yeah. 2:48:37.680 --> 2:48:37.920 Now. 2:48:38.080 --> 2:48:41.920 This week, Stier released part of his immigration platform titled 2:48:42.200 --> 2:48:48.320 how California Can Put Ice in Jail, echoing cries that 2:48:48.520 --> 2:48:52.360 activists have been tried to circulate into popular consciousness for 2:48:52.560 --> 2:48:57.440 the past year. Now, Stier doesn't just advocate for ICE 2:48:57.480 --> 2:49:01.520 to be abolished, which he does, but says in this 2:49:01.600 --> 2:49:05.680 new platform released on substack, quote, it's not enough for 2:49:05.800 --> 2:49:09.039 Democrats to simply engage in rhetoric and quote unquote stand 2:49:09.080 --> 2:49:13.039 against Ice or Trump. California must build a system that 2:49:13.160 --> 2:49:16.800 fights fire with fire to stop this authoritarian takeover. We 2:49:16.879 --> 2:49:19.320 must counter Ice head on and go after both their 2:49:19.360 --> 2:49:22.720 agents on the streets and their leadership within the DHS. 2:49:23.080 --> 2:49:25.200 How do we do this the same way we took 2:49:25.240 --> 2:49:28.120 on the mob, put ICE agents and their leadership in 2:49:28.200 --> 2:49:30.800 jail for their crimes, because that's how you take on 2:49:31.000 --> 2:49:35.640 a violent extremist group and win unquote. Steyer promises to 2:49:35.680 --> 2:49:38.720 do five things as governor to build this strategy to 2:49:38.879 --> 2:49:43.680 take on Ice. First, passing aggressive legislation building on current 2:49:43.800 --> 2:49:48.520 California statutes to outlaw any law enforcement agency from profiling 2:49:48.879 --> 2:49:53.959 based on race, ethnicity, language, occupation, or location. This directly 2:49:53.959 --> 2:49:58.560 takes on the Kavanagh stops, which were approved last fall. 2:49:59.080 --> 2:50:01.640 And a lot of others Supreme Court decisions of for instance, 2:50:01.680 --> 2:50:03.359 Board of Patrol operates under. 2:50:05.160 --> 2:50:09.000 Then, Stier says he'll grant the state Attorney general authority 2:50:09.000 --> 2:50:13.560 to hold ICE's leadership accountable for violence by pursuing quote 2:50:13.640 --> 2:50:18.680 unquote supervisory liability. Stire writes that quote this body of 2:50:18.760 --> 2:50:22.520 law empowers the California justice system to criminally prosecute and 2:50:22.560 --> 2:50:26.200 imprison not just the ICE agents who are committing these crimes, 2:50:26.480 --> 2:50:28.840 but the leadership directing them to do so. 2:50:29.240 --> 2:50:29.680 Unquote. 2:50:31.000 --> 2:50:34.359 Stire promise is to appoint and fund a special investigative 2:50:34.480 --> 2:50:38.959 unit that's specifically tasked with enforcing these California laws, quote, 2:50:39.080 --> 2:50:43.000 including laws related to the conditions at detention facilities. This 2:50:43.200 --> 2:50:46.000 unit will collect the evidence the Attorney General can use 2:50:46.200 --> 2:50:48.480 to prosecute offenders and their leadership. 2:50:48.959 --> 2:50:49.279 Quote. 2:50:50.440 --> 2:50:54.359 That's how he plans to take on ICE and leadership 2:50:54.400 --> 2:50:59.039 at the DHS and to prosecute crimes committed by ICE agents. Now, 2:50:59.080 --> 2:51:02.240 Stire also says that he will quote bring those detained 2:51:02.280 --> 2:51:06.800 and kidnapped by ICE back home quote by expanding the 2:51:06.840 --> 2:51:11.400 immigration legal defense infrastructure in the state of California, including 2:51:11.440 --> 2:51:16.879 funding for quote more attorneys, investigators, and accredited representatives, as 2:51:16.879 --> 2:51:20.000 well as legal aid and law school programs to assist 2:51:20.080 --> 2:51:24.080 and help those who have been imprisoned without due process unquote. 2:51:25.000 --> 2:51:27.480 This is the one like that I'd like. So there 2:51:27.480 --> 2:51:30.080 are counties in California the fund that we had an 2:51:30.080 --> 2:51:31.840 episode about this about two years ago, right that there 2:51:31.840 --> 2:51:36.160 will fund legal defense for migrants. Traditionally this has been 2:51:38.080 --> 2:51:41.840 Ice works around this by moving people who have that 2:51:41.959 --> 2:51:45.120 legal representation out of the state as quickly as they 2:51:45.160 --> 2:51:49.760 can and then refusing or making it very hard for 2:51:49.840 --> 2:51:53.920 WebEx motions for their attorneys to attend their hearings remotely. 2:51:54.680 --> 2:51:57.840 And what that does is effectively like bleeds to program, right, 2:51:57.840 --> 2:52:00.160 because then this attorney has to fly to Texas for 2:52:00.200 --> 2:52:06.200 a fifteen minute hearing about rescheduling or something similar. I 2:52:06.200 --> 2:52:08.800 would need to There's a lot of other stuff here, 2:52:08.840 --> 2:52:12.039 like law school programs. That's interesting. I don't know what 2:52:12.080 --> 2:52:16.400 those would be. There needs to be something that stops 2:52:16.480 --> 2:52:19.720 them doing that, because that is what they did under 2:52:19.760 --> 2:52:23.880 Biden too, like a this is not a Trump era thing. 2:52:23.920 --> 2:52:27.760 This is very much something that happened under Biden, and 2:52:27.800 --> 2:52:32.520 it will happen again if the state of California does 2:52:32.560 --> 2:52:35.840 this on a statewide level, I will imagine, I would imagine, 2:52:36.200 --> 2:52:38.960 especially like let's entertain the idea that we have an 2:52:39.000 --> 2:52:41.520 election in twenty twenty eight, we have a Democrat president, 2:52:42.480 --> 2:52:46.600 I still has a massively expanded detention capacity. It could 2:52:46.720 --> 2:52:50.360 very easily move people out of California very quickly, and 2:52:50.440 --> 2:52:52.680 so we need, like there need to be awareness of that. 2:52:52.959 --> 2:52:56.000 I would also say that, like, one of the tools 2:52:56.000 --> 2:52:57.880 that I don't see mentioned here that I think should 2:52:57.920 --> 2:53:02.040 be mentioned is SB fifty four in CALIFORNI SB fifty four. 2:53:02.280 --> 2:53:04.360 They're obviously there are different SB fifty four when I'm 2:53:04.360 --> 2:53:07.440 talking about a California Values Act here, the one that 2:53:07.760 --> 2:53:13.360 prohibits law enforcement cooperation except for cerchin exemptions with immigration authorities. 2:53:13.680 --> 2:53:17.080 That already exists. It's already there. And like this is 2:53:17.600 --> 2:53:20.160 his statements, pretty brief for his PDFs, only three pages. 2:53:20.680 --> 2:53:23.360 It might not go into all this detail. I would 2:53:23.520 --> 2:53:25.840 like to see that flagged, at least in in further 2:53:25.920 --> 2:53:28.080 detail or when he's speaking about this, right, because SB 2:53:28.120 --> 2:53:34.880 fifty four prosecutions of cops are important, right, because there 2:53:34.879 --> 2:53:38.840 are California agencies which appear to be flouting California law 2:53:39.320 --> 2:53:44.320 in order to comply with Trump's immigration goals. And if 2:53:44.360 --> 2:53:46.400 we don't do that first, then I have a lot 2:53:46.480 --> 2:53:48.119 less faith that any of this other shit is going 2:53:48.160 --> 2:53:48.560 to matter. 2:53:50.080 --> 2:53:54.720 Yeah, I mean, obviously, funding legal representation for immigrants regardless, 2:53:54.720 --> 2:53:58.600 like is a good thing. But it but the effect 2:53:58.600 --> 2:54:02.280 that it could have could be curtailed by Ice, as 2:54:02.360 --> 2:54:04.280 James is said, by moving people quickly out of state. 2:54:04.320 --> 2:54:10.520 And it's unclear if Stier is also talking about trying 2:54:10.560 --> 2:54:13.879 to help trying to help residents of California. 2:54:14.120 --> 2:54:16.240 Is it people who Is it people who reside in 2:54:16.280 --> 2:54:18.440 California and have been taken by ICE? Or is it 2:54:18.480 --> 2:54:21.880 people who are in iced detention in California California? Yeah, 2:54:21.920 --> 2:54:24.879 Like those are different categories, right like, anyone or any 2:54:25.000 --> 2:54:27.720 other people in immigration attention broadly in California, to include 2:54:27.720 --> 2:54:29.960 anyone who would cross the southern border and then be detained, 2:54:30.040 --> 2:54:32.320 right Like, this is all stuff that I'd like to 2:54:32.320 --> 2:54:34.480 see fleshed out. Maybe it will be. I am going 2:54:34.560 --> 2:54:36.600 to email his office and ask some of these questions. 2:54:37.720 --> 2:54:40.760 The last thing that Stier has in this five list 2:54:40.800 --> 2:54:43.600 of promises is promised to launch a statewide no Your 2:54:43.640 --> 2:54:48.920 Rights public education and public awareness campaign, and Stire writes 2:54:49.000 --> 2:54:53.920 quote backed by expanded protections against racial profiling. Legal representation 2:54:54.040 --> 2:54:57.879 empowers detained individuals to report ICE's crimes to the Special 2:54:57.920 --> 2:55:01.680 Investigator and California's Attorney General and take the agents to 2:55:01.800 --> 2:55:05.680 court unquote. So he sees all these things like working 2:55:06.000 --> 2:55:11.279 in conjunction together to prosecute ICE agents and give immigrants 2:55:11.360 --> 2:55:14.280 legal representation so that this so that the investigative unit 2:55:14.320 --> 2:55:19.600 can be aware of certain crimes by ICE agents. It's 2:55:20.000 --> 2:55:24.880 the most that I've seen any politician like put down 2:55:24.920 --> 2:55:28.120 as like an actual plan to go after ICE. Like 2:55:28.440 --> 2:55:30.520 some other people have employed this sort of this sort 2:55:30.520 --> 2:55:33.560 of rhetoric, but in terms of actually producing a plan 2:55:33.760 --> 2:55:36.800 to go about this, this is the most detailed that 2:55:36.879 --> 2:55:39.520 I've seen. And as James said, it'll be good to 2:55:39.640 --> 2:55:42.560 learn more about how he envisions this actually going into 2:55:42.600 --> 2:55:45.560 effect and those certain details that it would be nice 2:55:45.600 --> 2:55:50.520 to have more detail on. But as as as rhetoric 2:55:50.560 --> 2:55:52.640 and as as an actual policy proposal, this is like 2:55:52.680 --> 2:55:55.879 the most advanced thing I've seen on actually trying to 2:55:55.959 --> 2:55:57.640 prosecute ICE and DHS. 2:55:58.520 --> 2:56:00.800 All Right, so it's talk a little bit more about 2:56:00.800 --> 2:56:05.520 immigration things around the topic. First and foremost in this 2:56:05.600 --> 2:56:08.440 what I want to talk about is this court filing 2:56:08.480 --> 2:56:12.039 by the ACLU and associated groups pertaining to the South 2:56:12.120 --> 2:56:18.240 Florida Soft Sided Facility South aka Alligator Alcatraz. Right. The 2:56:18.360 --> 2:56:21.880 court filing has some really disturbing stuff and it basically 2:56:21.920 --> 2:56:24.680 details what they claim to be the continued abuse of 2:56:24.720 --> 2:56:27.960 detainees despite a court order that should have prohibited some 2:56:28.000 --> 2:56:30.959 of this or prevented it. Rather, in their filing they 2:56:30.959 --> 2:56:33.160 are led to the attorneys were prevented from meeting with 2:56:33.200 --> 2:56:38.040 their clients, forced to make appointments, and we've seen some 2:56:38.080 --> 2:56:40.000 reporting on the physical abuse. I have not seen as 2:56:40.080 --> 2:56:43.320 much discussion of this, which I think is extremely concerning. 2:56:43.680 --> 2:56:47.480 Attorneys have been asked to submit copies of legal documents 2:56:48.320 --> 2:56:51.360 that they are bringing or to go over with their 2:56:51.360 --> 2:56:55.000 clients right like this would be a very clear violation 2:56:55.120 --> 2:56:58.199 of their attorney client privilege right that those communications should 2:56:58.240 --> 2:57:01.840 be private between the attorney and the client. And the 2:57:01.959 --> 2:57:05.480 facility denied detainees access to phones. This was part of 2:57:05.520 --> 2:57:08.039 the previous co order. They were to have access to 2:57:08.080 --> 2:57:10.960 phones and communications with their attorneys as well as some 2:57:11.000 --> 2:57:12.840 other stuff. They had to be advised of their rights 2:57:12.920 --> 2:57:17.480 posters explaining some of this stuff. This resulted in demands 2:57:17.520 --> 2:57:19.840 and the parts of the detainees to restore their access 2:57:19.879 --> 2:57:22.280 to phones. I want to quote at length from the 2:57:22.320 --> 2:57:26.000 filing here just so I don't make any false representations. 2:57:26.520 --> 2:57:26.880 Quote. 2:57:27.080 --> 2:57:29.560 After not having access to phone calls all day, people 2:57:29.560 --> 2:57:32.240 in their cages were getting frustrated with the situation, as 2:57:32.320 --> 2:57:34.240 these phone calls are the only way people can contact 2:57:34.320 --> 2:57:38.359 loved ones, speak with and secure an attorney. Detained individuals 2:57:38.360 --> 2:57:41.760 in mister Morphi and mister Hernandez Galband's cage began complaining 2:57:41.800 --> 2:57:45.040 loudly about the phones not working. Mister Morphi and mister 2:57:45.080 --> 2:57:48.200 Hernandez Galband both reported that several guards who work for 2:57:48.280 --> 2:57:52.560 crs a's, the entity managing the facility, came to the 2:57:52.600 --> 2:57:57.519 cage and were taunting the detained individuals inside. Detained individuals 2:57:57.560 --> 2:58:00.920 began raising their voices in protests. The guards got more 2:58:00.959 --> 2:58:04.160 aggressive and were yelling and threatening to enter the cage. 2:58:04.200 --> 2:58:06.800 Mister Hernandez Galband went to the guards to try and 2:58:06.840 --> 2:58:09.480 deesperate the situation and advise the guards not to enter 2:58:09.480 --> 2:58:12.160 the cage at that time, fearing it would lead to violence. 2:58:13.160 --> 2:58:16.280 Mister Morphy and mister Hernandez Galband both reported that another 2:58:16.280 --> 2:58:19.800 detained individual then went to the guards and an officer 2:58:19.840 --> 2:58:24.800 punched that person. Then the officers targeted mister Morphy. Neither 2:58:24.879 --> 2:58:28.440 mister Morphy nor mister Hernande's garband know why they targeted 2:58:28.480 --> 2:58:31.560 mister Morphy. The guards threw mister Morphy to the ground 2:58:31.720 --> 2:58:35.200 and severely beat him up. An officer came in and 2:58:35.240 --> 2:58:37.680 punched mister Morphy in his right eye and began to 2:58:37.720 --> 2:58:40.320 beat him. He was taken out the cage and thrown 2:58:40.360 --> 2:58:43.600 to the ground and beaten by multiple guards. He suffered 2:58:43.640 --> 2:58:46.480 injuries to his shoulder and arm, and was kicked in 2:58:46.520 --> 2:58:49.760 the head. A guard placed their knee on his neck 2:58:49.920 --> 2:58:53.200 when the guard was trying to restrain him. Mister Morphy 2:58:53.280 --> 2:58:55.320 does not know which guards are involved, as they do 2:58:55.360 --> 2:58:58.680 not wear id badges, but he believes he would recognize them. 2:58:59.040 --> 2:59:01.520 The officers beat so for other people during this incident 2:59:01.920 --> 2:59:05.880 and broke another detained individual's wrist. The officers then pepper 2:59:05.879 --> 2:59:09.680 sprayed everyone in the cage. A detained older gentleman passed 2:59:09.720 --> 2:59:15.039 out as he could not breathe. That's pretty horrific, like. 2:59:16.959 --> 2:59:19.080 This is just one day in one detention center. 2:59:19.200 --> 2:59:21.560 This I was going to say, this is one cage 2:59:21.879 --> 2:59:25.959 on one day in one facility. And like, if these 2:59:26.000 --> 2:59:29.680 people had not been brave enough to speak out, then 2:59:29.720 --> 2:59:32.519 we wouldn't know. Or if these people had been deported 2:59:32.680 --> 2:59:35.840 before they could speak out, we wouldn't know. Right, they 2:59:35.840 --> 2:59:38.400 didn't even have telephones to report this, if they hadn't 2:59:38.440 --> 2:59:43.240 had attorneys, we wouldn't know. Yeah, this is an insight 2:59:43.280 --> 2:59:46.480 into what's happening in this facility, and it is horrific. 2:59:47.520 --> 2:59:49.480 There are images that go with this, if people want 2:59:49.480 --> 2:59:52.680 to look them up. You can see some very clearly 2:59:52.680 --> 2:59:55.520 injured people, or you can see at least one very 2:59:55.560 --> 2:59:56.440 clearly injured person. 2:59:57.360 --> 2:59:59.280 Let's go on an ad break and then talk about 2:59:59.280 --> 3:00:04.640 Iran some all the part partails. 3:00:12.480 --> 3:00:15.960 All right, we are back and in our final segment 3:00:16.000 --> 3:00:19.400 of today's show, we're going to talk about the ongoing 3:00:19.440 --> 3:00:23.280 war with Iran. Right this past weekend, jd Vance and 3:00:23.360 --> 3:00:28.200 Jared Kushner's what a Steve Witcoff master negotiator, A guy 3:00:28.240 --> 3:00:30.760 who doesn't know the difference between a tweet that is 3:00:30.800 --> 3:00:36.520 public and a DM that is private. Incredible. They flew 3:00:36.560 --> 3:00:39.200 to meet an Iranian Delegation in Pakistan, which serves to 3:00:39.360 --> 3:00:44.240 mediate and host ceasefire talks between the United States and Iran. Ultimately, 3:00:44.280 --> 3:00:47.680 this did not result in an enduring agreement between the 3:00:47.760 --> 3:00:51.440 US and Iran, and as a result, the United States 3:00:51.480 --> 3:00:55.520 has begun blockading Iranian ports. So far, several vessels have 3:00:55.560 --> 3:00:58.360 been turned around by the US blockade, and at least 3:00:58.360 --> 3:01:00.480 one that tried to run it was eventually turned back, 3:01:00.520 --> 3:01:04.360 even though it attempted to hug the Iranian coastline in 3:01:04.440 --> 3:01:09.440 order to avoid consequences. The US Navy has also issued 3:01:09.480 --> 3:01:12.440 instructions which seemed to suggest that it could target shadow 3:01:12.480 --> 3:01:16.160 fleet vessels globally as part of the blockade if they're 3:01:16.200 --> 3:01:20.440 carrying a number of contraband items, which includes basically Iranian 3:01:20.480 --> 3:01:26.480 oil all its derivatives, weapons, some metals, and industrial supplies. 3:01:26.800 --> 3:01:30.959 It's a very broad list of contraband. In the thirteen 3:01:31.040 --> 3:01:34.039 claimed instances of ships being turned around so far, I 3:01:34.120 --> 3:01:36.680 have not seen any in which it was a physical interdiction. 3:01:37.560 --> 3:01:40.080 It seems that the United States ships contacted them by 3:01:40.200 --> 3:01:44.200 radio advising them of the blockade. The blockade has not 3:01:44.600 --> 3:01:52.720 currently stopped some types of cargoes entering Iran noticed a 3:01:52.800 --> 3:01:56.600 mariner suggests humanitarian supplies can enter, but those vessels are 3:01:56.640 --> 3:02:02.240 subject to inspection. If this causes a cooling effect or 3:02:02.320 --> 3:02:05.160 just a reduction in the ability of Iran to bring 3:02:05.240 --> 3:02:09.199 in more food, this could cause serious food shortages. There's 3:02:08.920 --> 3:02:12.840 a there's already been massive food price inflation since the war. 3:02:12.879 --> 3:02:17.320 Brigan and Iran had previously tried to work around this, 3:02:17.520 --> 3:02:22.280 but a complete blockade would make that harder. It does 3:02:22.320 --> 3:02:25.160 seem that negotiation between the US and Iran and ongoing. 3:02:25.200 --> 3:02:28.200 We're recording this on Thursday, and the latest thing that 3:02:28.240 --> 3:02:31.440 I had seen has suggested that Iran is saying it 3:02:31.520 --> 3:02:35.199 might allow traffic through the Strait if its assets are unfrozen. 3:02:36.240 --> 3:02:39.480 This hinges on the idea that Iran gets to decide 3:02:39.520 --> 3:02:43.920 who goes through the strait. Right, the strait is wider 3:02:43.959 --> 3:02:48.360 than twelve twelve miles is generally the territorial waters right 3:02:49.320 --> 3:02:52.360 just so it is international waters, So the idea that 3:02:52.400 --> 3:02:56.240 Iran controls it. If the US signs some kind of 3:02:56.320 --> 3:02:59.680 deal which implies or outright says, that would be a 3:02:59.680 --> 3:03:03.800 massive victory for a run right at least in that area. Meanwhile, 3:03:03.840 --> 3:03:06.560 the United States is amassing a massive naval force in 3:03:06.600 --> 3:03:10.400 the region with three carrier strike groups either there or 3:03:10.440 --> 3:03:16.720 heading there. That is approximately forty percent of the USA's navy. Interestingly, 3:03:16.800 --> 3:03:21.280 the George H. W. Bush is going around Africa to 3:03:21.360 --> 3:03:21.800 go there. 3:03:21.879 --> 3:03:24.160 The ship, not the man, that's correct, George H. W. 3:03:24.240 --> 3:03:29.560 Bush himself swimming, he's gonna wet to No, Yes, the 3:03:30.280 --> 3:03:33.560 United States ship George H. W. Bush is going around 3:03:33.640 --> 3:03:38.880 the southern tip of Africa. Geography understanders will notice that 3:03:38.879 --> 3:03:42.039 that is the long way. The short way would be 3:03:42.080 --> 3:03:43.240 through the Suez Canal. 3:03:43.520 --> 3:03:47.160 Right, Oh, no, they're doing They're doing the Russia the 3:03:47.200 --> 3:03:50.879 Resar Japanese war thing that always goes great for the 3:03:50.920 --> 3:03:52.160 imperial power. 3:03:53.959 --> 3:03:56.160 Moving because yeah, I'm guessing they're doing it because they 3:03:56.200 --> 3:03:58.760 don't want to get hit by yea many groups right 3:03:59.000 --> 3:04:02.200 going through the Red See And that seems to be 3:04:02.240 --> 3:04:06.039 the only explanation I can think of. Two Avenger class 3:04:06.160 --> 3:04:09.959 mind countermeas ships also left Singapore. They will also likely 3:04:10.000 --> 3:04:15.039 be headed to the region right for demining the straight Yeah. Meanwhile, 3:04:15.640 --> 3:04:19.519 it's worth noting that this ceasefire has not been universal, 3:04:19.600 --> 3:04:23.200 where bombing has not ceased. In Kurdistan. This week, a 3:04:23.280 --> 3:04:26.519 pesche Murger of the Commala of the toilers of Kurdistan. 3:04:27.959 --> 3:04:32.240 Ghazal Molan, a young Kurdish woman, died after sustaining injuries 3:04:32.280 --> 3:04:36.280 in a strike on Tuesday. It seems that it was 3:04:36.440 --> 3:04:40.879 very hard for the Kammala to find medical care for her. 3:04:41.400 --> 3:04:43.600 I'm going to quote from a piece by the Hannah 3:04:43.640 --> 3:04:47.879 human rights organization here quote. She then required urgent, higher 3:04:47.959 --> 3:04:51.959 level treatment, including advanced imaging, specialist trauma care, and intensive 3:04:51.959 --> 3:04:56.359 care support. Hannah has received serious allegations that the necessary 3:04:56.400 --> 3:04:59.640 treatment was not provided and that the subsequent efforts to 3:04:59.680 --> 3:05:03.240 secure your admission or transferred to other hospitals were delayed 3:05:03.280 --> 3:05:06.440 or refused. The central allegation under review is that once 3:05:06.480 --> 3:05:08.640 the case was understood to be connected to a drone 3:05:08.680 --> 3:05:13.360 strike and to carry political sensitivity, non medical considerations may 3:05:13.360 --> 3:05:18.000 have affected decisions concerning her admission and treatment. That's pretty 3:05:18.000 --> 3:05:21.320 bleak if it's true relativity, that this person could have survived, 3:05:21.879 --> 3:05:27.760 but hospitals either feared political consequences or being struck themselves, 3:05:29.360 --> 3:05:32.440 they decided. And there's a you can look at the 3:05:32.480 --> 3:05:34.640 show notes right that they link, and they talk about 3:05:34.640 --> 3:05:36.760 a number of hospitals that they basically drove her around 3:05:36.840 --> 3:05:42.520 trying to find care it's really heartbreaking. Again, other strikes 3:05:42.640 --> 3:05:47.520 have hit civilian facilities, including refugee camps sort of associated 3:05:47.520 --> 3:05:50.440 with the rogulati groups in Kurdistan, and that seems to 3:05:50.480 --> 3:05:54.280 be that there is no cease fire for the Kurds. Right. 3:05:54.320 --> 3:05:57.440 It's the long and the short of it. I run around, 3:05:57.480 --> 3:06:00.480 it's taking this time of peace negotiations to kind of 3:06:01.440 --> 3:06:05.959 reorganize its military and to reassess its supplies. Even they 3:06:05.959 --> 3:06:10.280 have dug out some missiles and anti air systems that 3:06:10.320 --> 3:06:14.040 were buried but not destroyed by strikes, and so they 3:06:14.080 --> 3:06:17.440 will be preparing for whatever comes next. If people want 3:06:17.480 --> 3:06:19.879 to know more about this, I made a whole episode 3:06:20.560 --> 3:06:22.640 which will have come out the day before this in 3:06:22.680 --> 3:06:24.240 the same feed, so you can listen to it there. 3:06:25.360 --> 3:06:28.959 This morning, also Trump announced a ceasefire deal for ten 3:06:29.040 --> 3:06:33.920 days between Israel and Lebanon. We'll see if that turns 3:06:33.920 --> 3:06:36.360 out to be real, if Israel well abide by this. 3:06:36.600 --> 3:06:39.280 But that is like as of for like an hour 3:06:39.360 --> 3:06:42.480 ago while we record Thursday afternoon. 3:06:43.000 --> 3:06:45.959 And it's worth noting there were literally thousands of violations 3:06:45.959 --> 3:06:47.840 with the last use fire that are on it's supposedly 3:06:47.879 --> 3:06:54.240 agreed to you with Lebanon. So yeah, yeah. 3:06:54.280 --> 3:06:57.800 Trump had said that it was a quote separate skirmish 3:06:57.879 --> 3:07:01.720 in Lebanon and thus didn't it wasn't included in the ceasefire, 3:07:01.720 --> 3:07:03.160 which is a hell of a way to describe what's 3:07:03.160 --> 3:07:03.800 happening there. 3:07:04.480 --> 3:07:09.000 For our last story, let's talk about Sam Altman. Last week, 3:07:09.520 --> 3:07:14.600 a twenty year old college student named Daniel Moranogama traveled 3:07:14.720 --> 3:07:18.280 from Texas to San Francisco, California, and at three point 3:07:18.280 --> 3:07:22.360 thirty am on April tenth, allegedly threw a molotov cocktail 3:07:22.400 --> 3:07:26.520 toward the home of open AI CEO Sam Altman. The 3:07:26.560 --> 3:07:29.280 molotov hit the top of the security gate on the 3:07:29.360 --> 3:07:33.600 driveway leading to Altman's residence. Then, at around five am, 3:07:33.879 --> 3:07:37.800 Moranogama arrived at the open Ai headquarters and tried to 3:07:37.879 --> 3:07:40.320 use a chair to break into the building through the 3:07:40.320 --> 3:07:44.359 glass doors, but was stopped by security. According to security 3:07:44.360 --> 3:07:48.120 personnel on site, Moranogama stated that he came to the 3:07:48.160 --> 3:07:52.320 headquarters to burn it down and kill anyone inside. A 3:07:52.400 --> 3:07:57.520 federal affidavit alleges that after detaining Moranogama, officers recovered quote, 3:07:57.600 --> 3:08:01.600 incendiary devices, a jug of keras, a blue lighter, and 3:08:01.680 --> 3:08:07.200 an ANTIAI Document unquote. This document was a three part 3:08:07.240 --> 3:08:12.440 manifesto apparently authored by Moranogama. The first part was titled 3:08:12.480 --> 3:08:17.480 quote your Last Warning and allegedly states that Moranogama quote 3:08:17.760 --> 3:08:21.960 killed slash attempted to kill Sam Altman, also writing quote, 3:08:22.120 --> 3:08:24.600 if I'm going to advocate for others to kill and 3:08:24.640 --> 3:08:27.560 commit crimes, that I must lead by example and show 3:08:27.600 --> 3:08:32.359 that I am fully sincere in my message. The document 3:08:32.440 --> 3:08:35.840 then listed the names and addresses of investors, board members, 3:08:35.840 --> 3:08:39.040 and executives of AI companies. The second part of the 3:08:39.040 --> 3:08:41.840 document was titled some more Words on the Matter of 3:08:41.879 --> 3:08:46.360 our Impending Extinction. This section discussed the purported risk AI 3:08:46.480 --> 3:08:50.440 poses to humanity. The third part of the document was 3:08:50.480 --> 3:08:53.720 a letter addressed quote to Sam Altman, if you make 3:08:53.760 --> 3:08:57.800 it and read some part quote, if by some miracle 3:08:57.840 --> 3:09:00.640 you live, then I would take this as a sign 3:09:00.760 --> 3:09:06.320 from the divine to redeem yourself unquote. Moronogama's Instagram user 3:09:06.400 --> 3:09:09.760 name was but larryan Jie Hottist, in reference to the 3:09:09.800 --> 3:09:12.200 crsede against AI in the Dune novels. 3:09:12.959 --> 3:09:13.199 Yeah. 3:09:13.240 --> 3:09:16.560 This account had a collection of Instagram stories saved about 3:09:16.680 --> 3:09:19.920 the existential threat of AI. Now we don't have a 3:09:19.959 --> 3:09:23.760 copy of this three part manifesto in full, but his 3:09:23.920 --> 3:09:26.920 sub stack is still online and it contains other writing 3:09:27.080 --> 3:09:30.800 about his belief that AI poses this existential threat to humanity. 3:09:32.120 --> 3:09:35.600 In this writing, his opposition to AI is not based 3:09:35.640 --> 3:09:39.039 on fears of disruptions to the economy, loss of jobs, 3:09:39.120 --> 3:09:42.000 or labor rights, but the belief that AI will become 3:09:42.080 --> 3:09:46.640 a superior race and wipe out or enslave humanity. In 3:09:46.680 --> 3:09:49.640 a post from January sixth, twenty twenty six, he writes 3:09:49.680 --> 3:09:53.800 that AI will quote lead to human extinction because of 3:09:53.840 --> 3:09:58.680 the quote rapid progress in artificial intelligence unquote, as well 3:09:58.720 --> 3:10:03.039 as that AI models are not aligned with humanity's interests. 3:10:03.720 --> 3:10:07.000 To quote this essay, ignore for a second these models 3:10:07.080 --> 3:10:10.920 current limitations or questions on how truly intelligent or conscious 3:10:10.959 --> 3:10:13.800 these models may actually be. The truth is all of 3:10:13.800 --> 3:10:16.959 these nuances are completely irrelevant to my argument. There are 3:10:16.959 --> 3:10:20.080 only two questions we should be concerned about at this moment. 3:10:20.800 --> 3:10:23.760 Is it willing to kill to preserve itself? And is 3:10:23.800 --> 3:10:27.879 it capable of doing so? Signs indicate that AI is 3:10:27.959 --> 3:10:32.400 willing and becoming potentially capable of doing both these things, 3:10:32.840 --> 3:10:35.520 and that is all that matters. We are dead if 3:10:35.560 --> 3:10:40.320 we do not act now unquote. He recommended that people 3:10:40.400 --> 3:10:44.720 read Eliezer Yudkowski's book If Anyone builds It, Everyone Dies, 3:10:45.720 --> 3:10:49.520 and other posts on his substack also mentioned Yudkowski's work. 3:10:49.800 --> 3:10:53.280 Who's one of the four fathers of quote unquote rationalism 3:10:53.840 --> 3:10:58.840 rationalist thought, and writes a lot about Ai Doom. Ai 3:10:58.920 --> 3:11:01.120 will bring apart the the end of humanity. 3:11:01.400 --> 3:11:05.800 This is very much a normal, like less wrong kind 3:11:05.840 --> 3:11:09.680 of mindset, right, Like, this guy's not normal. He's clearly 3:11:09.840 --> 3:11:12.959 suffering from some disordered thinking and is not like. This 3:11:13.000 --> 3:11:17.000 guy does not represent the average person who uses those things. 3:11:17.560 --> 3:11:21.080 But his justifications for what he did and his media 3:11:21.200 --> 3:11:25.640 diet is clearly all like less wrong stuff, all rationalist stuff, 3:11:25.680 --> 3:11:29.320 all Yudkowski stuff. So's he's been kind of marinating in that, 3:11:29.720 --> 3:11:35.320 and you know, this is what somebody who's not like 3:11:36.440 --> 3:11:40.920 this is unfortunately kind of the logical extent of Yodkowski's ideas, 3:11:40.959 --> 3:11:43.000 Like he would say he doesn't want anyone doing stuff 3:11:43.040 --> 3:11:45.520 like this, but his literal contention is that this is 3:11:45.560 --> 3:11:48.600 going to kill everyone and everything like and it will 3:11:48.600 --> 3:11:51.120 inevitably do it unless stopped. And if you really do 3:11:51.240 --> 3:11:54.280 believe that, you're kind of like left to act like 3:11:54.320 --> 3:11:58.880 these guys do. I think the responsible thing is for 3:11:58.920 --> 3:12:01.960 there to be an anti AI movement that's not rooted 3:12:02.000 --> 3:12:05.120 in nonsense, which is again why we do the stuff 3:12:05.160 --> 3:12:07.360 that we do, because I'm very much against a lot 3:12:07.360 --> 3:12:09.240 of this shit. Not because it's going to create a 3:12:09.280 --> 3:12:12.680 god that kills everybody, but because it makes the Internet 3:12:12.720 --> 3:12:15.680 a lot worse and makes human thinking a lot worse, 3:12:15.959 --> 3:12:18.280 and it puts a lot of money into shitty people's 3:12:18.320 --> 3:12:21.680 hands and is just often unnecessary in many of its 3:12:21.680 --> 3:12:26.599 applications and outwardly like making some things worse, and that's 3:12:26.640 --> 3:12:27.160 not great. 3:12:27.720 --> 3:12:29.000 Yeah, And like you know, if you want to talk 3:12:29.000 --> 3:12:31.039 about like oh this is actually going to like end humanity, 3:12:31.040 --> 3:12:33.440 it's like, well, yeah, it's also intensifying climate change, the 3:12:33.480 --> 3:12:35.600 thing that you would think these people would care about, but. 3:12:35.600 --> 3:12:39.240 Yeah not, I mean sure, yeah, it's like that's the 3:12:39.480 --> 3:12:41.880 that I'm not. I don't tend to focus on the 3:12:42.480 --> 3:12:46.640 fucking water use aspects of people complaining about AI because 3:12:46.640 --> 3:12:48.959 there's so many things we do that are like horrible 3:12:49.760 --> 3:12:50.720 in those terms. 3:12:51.080 --> 3:12:53.320 Well, I mean also just like like the energy, like the. 3:12:56.000 --> 3:12:58.279 Yeah, like the cost thing is massive. 3:12:58.400 --> 3:13:02.320 Yeah, yeah, and like that is like we're just resources 3:13:02.360 --> 3:13:05.440 for but like scam bots. 3:13:05.959 --> 3:13:09.039 Yeah, it's just useless and a lot of like a 3:13:09.080 --> 3:13:11.160 lot of what it's being used for is pointless. Like 3:13:11.240 --> 3:13:14.440 if you're able to, you know, create machines that are 3:13:14.440 --> 3:13:18.199 more accurately able to like scan for cancers or whatever, fine, 3:13:19.240 --> 3:13:20.680 I don't have a problem with that, but like, we 3:13:20.720 --> 3:13:23.080 don't need to be burning the resources that we're burning 3:13:23.560 --> 3:13:28.679 to replace like people writing local news articles with slop advertisements, 3:13:28.879 --> 3:13:31.480 you know, like that's not a benefit to society. And 3:13:31.520 --> 3:13:35.000 I'm really angry at it, and it's frustrating to see 3:13:35.120 --> 3:13:39.680 people getting radicalized to it literally attack AI people for 3:13:39.720 --> 3:13:43.720 bullshit reasons like and honestly, Altman's partly to blame for this. 3:13:43.800 --> 3:13:45.920 He's one of the people who has fanned the flames 3:13:45.920 --> 3:13:47.760 of we might be making an evil god. 3:13:48.280 --> 3:13:50.680 Yes, because that is really good for investors, because it 3:13:50.720 --> 3:13:54.920 makes the pain seem actually impressives. 3:13:53.480 --> 3:13:54.320 Like world changing. 3:13:54.600 --> 3:13:55.960 This is their preferred opposition. 3:13:56.320 --> 3:13:58.520 Yeah, if you are getting rich by saying I might 3:13:58.560 --> 3:14:02.840 be making sky nets, somebody stop me. Someone might stop you, Sam, 3:14:03.200 --> 3:14:05.960 you know, like realistically, don't do that. 3:14:07.160 --> 3:14:13.280 This substack also contains writing on pseudospiritual philosophy about the 3:14:13.440 --> 3:14:17.800 quote tree of ultimate reality, the operation of man, the 3:14:17.879 --> 3:14:21.439 genealogy of being, and the warrior and the martyr. 3:14:21.280 --> 3:14:24.720 Unquote sure man, a little too much Internet. 3:14:25.160 --> 3:14:27.600 Yeah, there's a lot of stuff there. But I want 3:14:27.600 --> 3:14:31.400 to briefly touch on this other essay about political extremism, 3:14:31.800 --> 3:14:36.520 where the writer Moro on Gama describes himself as a consequentialist, 3:14:36.959 --> 3:14:41.280 defends discrimination, and advocates for quote ending mass migration and 3:14:41.320 --> 3:14:46.840 initiating mass deportations. He proposes a system of IQ or 3:14:47.000 --> 3:14:50.920 merit based nationalism, basically a country where citizenship is determined 3:14:50.959 --> 3:14:55.920 by IQ, and a program to advance quote ethical eugenics 3:14:55.959 --> 3:15:00.560 in the third world to promote IQ growth genetically on weves. 3:15:01.040 --> 3:15:01.320 Geez. 3:15:01.440 --> 3:15:04.640 Yeah, that's also that's like amazingly this is one of 3:15:04.640 --> 3:15:06.080 these This is one of those sort of like you 3:15:06.080 --> 3:15:07.680 look at the Hong Kong protests and it's like they're 3:15:07.680 --> 3:15:11.920 on maoists on both sides, where both of like both 3:15:12.040 --> 3:15:14.240 him and his enemies also believe this. 3:15:16.000 --> 3:15:19.160 Yeah, I mean this is a certain strain of like rationalists. 3:15:19.160 --> 3:15:21.520 Post rationalist is really into this sort of like IQ 3:15:21.800 --> 3:15:25.279 merit based yeah, and intelligence and meritocracy. 3:15:25.840 --> 3:15:27.320 Yeah, And they're like and so are like a bunch 3:15:27.400 --> 3:15:29.160 of the tech people who are letting yeah, I stuff. 3:15:29.280 --> 3:15:32.720 I mean, this essay specifically is very disordered and it's thinking. 3:15:32.760 --> 3:15:35.800 I do not think a lot of other rationalists would 3:15:35.800 --> 3:15:38.920 would take some of the sort of beliefs and statements 3:15:38.920 --> 3:15:42.000 made in this essay at face value, or like, would 3:15:42.000 --> 3:15:43.920 not agree with the way that he would not agree 3:15:43.959 --> 3:15:48.480 with the way that Moron Agama like writes, writes about 3:15:48.520 --> 3:15:51.800 these sorts of like policies or ideas. It's very self contradictory. 3:15:52.280 --> 3:15:54.879 He writes both kind of in favor and not in 3:15:54.959 --> 3:15:58.080 favor of like I Q to vote or to become 3:15:58.120 --> 3:16:02.440 a citizen. It's all very kind of confused. And on Tuesday, 3:16:02.520 --> 3:16:05.240 Mornagama's public defender set in court that he has quote 3:16:05.440 --> 3:16:09.360 a history of autism and mental health illness, and that 3:16:09.440 --> 3:16:11.960 his actions quote appear to have been driven by an 3:16:11.959 --> 3:16:17.560 acute mental health crisis quote now Interestingly, two days after 3:16:17.720 --> 3:16:21.760 the Molotov cocktail attack, Sanltman's home was apparently targeted again 3:16:21.959 --> 3:16:24.840 in a drive by shooting. A man and a woman 3:16:24.879 --> 3:16:28.160 in their mid twenties have been arrested connected to that, 3:16:29.040 --> 3:16:32.000 and on Tuesday morning, a molotov cocktail was thrown at 3:16:32.040 --> 3:16:35.480 the entrance of a Teslas sales office in New Orleans, 3:16:35.520 --> 3:16:39.080 igniting a fire at the front door. No arrests have 3:16:39.160 --> 3:16:42.560 been made connected to that incident. I think I should 3:16:42.560 --> 3:16:45.440 also just briefly mention the warehouse fire thing, which I 3:16:45.440 --> 3:16:47.280 did a full episode on earlier this week that you 3:16:47.320 --> 3:16:50.320 can listen to, but kind of in short, just as 3:16:50.400 --> 3:16:52.879 for midnight. On April seventh, a twenty nine year old 3:16:52.879 --> 3:16:56.680 warehouse worker named Schammel Abdul Karim allegedly set a toilet 3:16:56.720 --> 3:17:00.640 paper warehouse on fire in Ontario, California, least by the 3:17:00.720 --> 3:17:05.680 company Kimberly Clark. Adilkarim allegedly filmed himself igniting three pallets 3:17:05.680 --> 3:17:08.959 of paper products on fire while saying aloud, if you're 3:17:09.000 --> 3:17:10.959 not going to pay us enough to fucking live or 3:17:11.000 --> 3:17:13.680 afford to live, at least pay us enough not to 3:17:13.720 --> 3:17:15.680 do this shit. All you had to do was pay 3:17:15.760 --> 3:17:20.160 us enough to live. There goes your inventory unquote. According 3:17:20.200 --> 3:17:23.160 to the DOJ, this fire caused over half a billion 3:17:23.200 --> 3:17:26.440 dollars in damages, it's five hundred million in profit and 3:17:26.520 --> 3:17:30.400 one hundred million in infrastructure. In the days after the fire, 3:17:30.560 --> 3:17:33.680 people started sharing viral clips of other warehouse fires across 3:17:33.720 --> 3:17:36.960 the country, asserting that a wave of copycat incidents were 3:17:37.000 --> 3:17:42.360 occurring where underpaid employees were setting their workplaces on fire. Now, 3:17:42.480 --> 3:17:46.279 none of these subsequent warehouse fires have yet been deemed arson. 3:17:46.720 --> 3:17:49.840 Most are still under investigation, but some do have suspected 3:17:49.879 --> 3:17:54.080 accidental causes, such as electrical failure, exploding lithium ion batteries, 3:17:54.400 --> 3:17:57.560 and improperly mixed waste. At least one fire was at 3:17:57.560 --> 3:18:01.200 an abandoned warehouse, so there was no scruntled worker setting 3:18:01.200 --> 3:18:04.440 his workplace on fire in that instance. Most certainly, and 3:18:04.480 --> 3:18:07.080 warehouse fires themselves, are actually pretty common. A report from 3:18:07.120 --> 3:18:09.680 the National Fire Protection Association found that from twenty twenty 3:18:09.680 --> 3:18:12.480 to twenty twenty four, an average of four warehouse fires 3:18:12.520 --> 3:18:17.039 occurred per day. The idea that the number of warehouse 3:18:17.040 --> 3:18:21.480 fires has suddenly increased is an instance of selective reporting, 3:18:21.640 --> 3:18:24.119 where a big national news story causes people to share 3:18:24.160 --> 3:18:27.400 local reports that appear connected even if there is no 3:18:27.520 --> 3:18:31.000 direct connection. This happens a lot with aviation incidents, where 3:18:31.320 --> 3:18:34.920 after news of an accident involving a big commercial airliner, 3:18:35.040 --> 3:18:38.520 people will share local news reports of plane crashes, even 3:18:38.560 --> 3:18:42.240 if these just involve small private planes which crash much 3:18:42.280 --> 3:18:42.959 more frequently. 3:18:43.879 --> 3:18:44.080 Now. 3:18:44.240 --> 3:18:47.480 I wrote about the warehouse fire story and the viral 3:18:47.480 --> 3:18:51.119 misinformation associated with it because I've been pretty consistent about 3:18:51.160 --> 3:18:53.880 the need to have an accurate understanding of the world 3:18:53.920 --> 3:18:58.240 in order to change it. But also, even if viral 3:18:58.280 --> 3:19:02.360 claims of copycat fires are unfounded, the memes and the 3:19:02.400 --> 3:19:06.720 reactions to the story, like Luigi Mangioni, do demonstrate a 3:19:06.920 --> 3:19:10.320 form of class consciousness and do show an active willingness 3:19:10.320 --> 3:19:13.440 to rally behind such action. And the toilet paper arson 3:19:13.560 --> 3:19:17.240 story specifically is really compelling because this is just an 3:19:17.240 --> 3:19:20.320 everyday worker. This isn't like a maoist bombing plot, this 3:19:20.400 --> 3:19:23.080 isn't an anarchist affinity group. It's not hard to grasp 3:19:23.160 --> 3:19:26.240 the motivation and politics of a worker saying all you 3:19:26.320 --> 3:19:29.400 had to do was pay us a living wage. That said, 3:19:29.680 --> 3:19:35.000 passive engagement with content promoting individuals to venturism can serve 3:19:35.080 --> 3:19:38.760 as a cathartic substitute for taking political action, including the 3:19:38.800 --> 3:19:43.200 relatively tedious and difficult work of union organizing. Memes like 3:19:43.240 --> 3:19:46.600 this warehouse fire trend can have a positive outcome if 3:19:46.640 --> 3:19:48.920 the sort of energy that's channeled through this direct action 3:19:49.000 --> 3:19:52.720 and associated content could then be utilized towards actually building 3:19:52.760 --> 3:19:55.080 a labor movement instead of just being a way for 3:19:55.280 --> 3:19:58.720 influencers to attract engagement, which is why a lot of 3:19:58.760 --> 3:20:03.000 this story has kind of perforated through Reddit, TikTok, Instagram, 3:20:03.360 --> 3:20:07.000 and blue sky and Twitter. So that's kind of why 3:20:07.040 --> 3:20:09.520 I talked about the story the way I did in 3:20:09.560 --> 3:20:11.880 that episode. And if you want more details about this 3:20:12.000 --> 3:20:14.440 viral meme, you can check out that episode from a 3:20:14.480 --> 3:20:17.800 few days ago. Let's see, I think that's everything. 3:20:18.680 --> 3:20:20.040 There is no more news left. 3:20:21.240 --> 3:20:23.160 We did it. We did all the news, all right, 3:20:23.720 --> 3:20:24.760 We reported the news. 3:20:25.040 --> 3:20:30.120 Goodbye. If you want to email us, you can do 3:20:30.320 --> 3:20:33.200 so with your story tips. You can do that by 3:20:33.200 --> 3:20:37.240 emailing cool Zone Tips at proton me. If you want 3:20:37.280 --> 3:20:40.520 to email us with your marketing or to suggest that 3:20:40.600 --> 3:20:43.680 your boss be a guest on our podcast, just don't. 3:20:44.640 --> 3:20:46.279 We reported the news. 3:20:48.000 --> 3:20:48.200 Hey. 3:20:48.280 --> 3:20:51.400 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:20:51.440 --> 3:20:53.120 now until the heat death of the universe. 3:20:53.879 --> 3:20:56.360 It could happen. Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:20:56.560 --> 3:20:59.640 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:21:00.040 --> 3:21:02.240 on media dot com or check us out on the 3:21:02.280 --> 3:21:06.320 iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, 3:21:06.680 --> 3:21:08.560 you can now find sources for it could happen here, 3:21:08.640 --> 3:21:11.600 listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.