1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Of course, I was like worried because I thought that 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: I could easily fall into some kind of misery porn, 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: you know. And I said, well, how can I do 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: to avoid this? And I thought, I don't only have 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: to tell those stories, but try to understand why they happen. 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: From futuro media, It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria Inojosa. Hunger 7 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: is a persistent and brutal problem the world lives with 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: every day. There are over eight hundred million starving people 9 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 2: on the planet, whetherin fifty countries, are suffering from serious 10 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: or alarming levels of hunger. We want to take a 11 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: closer look at the underlying causes of this food and 12 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: security Worldwide. 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 3: Temperatures are becoming higher and theyrecoming more variable. It's not 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 3: just affecting agriculture. It's also affecting the livelihoods of people 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 3: that depend on it for their food and their income. 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 2: Hungary is going up, both the number of hungry people 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: and the percentage, Yet the world produces enough food to 18 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: feed the entire human population one and a half times over. 19 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: In his book Hunger, Award winning author Martin Gabaros travels 20 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: the globe in search of an answer to food insecurity. 21 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: Originally from Argentina, Martin Cabarres is a prolific essayist, novelist, 22 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: and international journalist. He's published dozens of books, both novels 23 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: and works of nonfiction. His book Hunger is already an 24 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: international bestseller in Latin America, Spain, France, Germany, Scandinavia, and now, 25 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: for the first time, it's being published in English. In 26 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: his book, Martin Gabarreos goes in search of why in 27 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: the twenty four century, so many of the world's inhabitants 28 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: still go hungry daily. Each chapter of Hunger focuses on 29 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: one specific location. He traveled to Nizier, India, Bangladesh, the US, Madagascar, 30 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: South Sudan, and finally back home to Argentina. Cabreros argues 31 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 2: that our inability to eliminate world hunger is not a 32 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: result of a lack of resources, but rather who controls them. 33 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 2: I sat down with Martin to talk about his reporting, 34 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: the causes and effects of hunger, and our responsibility to help. 35 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: Martin Cabarro's welcome to Latino, USA. Thank you Maria, So Martina, 36 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 2: I actually want to know a little bit more about you, 37 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: so tell me about when you decided that you wanted 38 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: to become a journalist. 39 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: It was in Argentina, where I grew up, in Buennes Aires. 40 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: I was working in a newspaper. I was sixteen years old. 41 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: I had just finished my high school. They wanted to 42 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: become a photographer, and at that time journalists started. 43 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 4: To work that way. 44 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: I mean there was not a journalism schools and stuff 45 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: like that. You just began to work some Saturday, February sixteenth, 46 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four. 47 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: Oh my god, no one has ever said that the 48 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: exact date when you knew you wanted to become a journalist. 49 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there's always a first. 50 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: What happened? 51 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 4: The pressroom was severely understaffed. A guy there. 52 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: Asked me if I could help him by writing the 53 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: news about the funding of the left food of a 54 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: Japanese mountaineer that lost it ten years before. It's not 55 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: the news that the world was waiting for it. But well, 56 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: I said yes, because I used to write some poetry, 57 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: as any teenager would. I wrote it, and it seems 58 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: that I wrote it all right, And that's how I 59 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: started to become a journalist. 60 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: At what point did you realize that what you wanted 61 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: to do was not write the news of the day, 62 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: but that you realize that you wanted to go deeper 63 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: into issues. 64 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: My story was a bit more twisted. I mean, when 65 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: I was eighteen, I had to leave Argentina because of 66 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: the Kudetai in March seventy six, so I went to France. 67 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: I studied history there and I started to write fiction. 68 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: And I had already written like three novels when I 69 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: finally came back to writing journalism. So at that time, 70 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: I already knew that I wanted to write more complex 71 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: and long pieces, and that's what I started to do 72 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the nineties. 73 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: You decide to actually take on the issue of hunger 74 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: in a massive book in Spanish language where you traveled 75 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: to multiple countries. How did you kind of approach your 76 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: editors and in your own mind to write this massive 77 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 2: tone about hunger. 78 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: I was at that time working for the UN the Nations. 79 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: I had to write reports on different problems in different 80 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: parts of the world. By doing that, I found that 81 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: behind every problem that I had to address, like migration, 82 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: or climate change or reproductive health, there was always something 83 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: lying behind it that was that most of the people 84 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: didn't eat enough. 85 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: Is that what made you become enthralled with the issue 86 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: of hunger, That hunger was just kind of the forgotten issue. 87 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, a constant, unforgotten issue. In all those years writing 88 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: for the United Nations, hunger didn't seem to be something 89 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: that they wanted to take care of. At some point 90 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to try to understand why and 91 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: what was happening. 92 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 4: So I decided to write about. 93 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: That phenomenon that was overlooked when we talked about so 94 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: many other things. 95 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 2: What you decide to do is that you decide to 96 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: visit lots of places around the world to speak to 97 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: people who are what we would call quote unquote food insecure. 98 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: You actually get very spiritual, and you ask them if 99 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: they believe in God, and if they do, you ask them, 100 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: why does God let them go hungry? Why these questions? 101 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: Well, when I asked them about the reasons why they 102 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: were poverty in hunger, and so. 103 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 4: They talked about different gods. 104 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: Some saying that it was his decision to keep them 105 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: like that. At some point I realized that there was 106 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: almost no atheist hungry person. I suppose that it was 107 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: easier to think that there was like a superior power 108 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: that decided that you were going to be in that situation. 109 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: But it's revolting to see in which a measure God 110 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: is useful for justify the unjustifiable. In many cases keep 111 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: many people in a situation where they shouldn't be. 112 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: Hunger is intertwined with so many other parts of society, 113 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 2: like corruption, capitalism. But if you're a woman, your chances 114 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: of being hungry are actually so much higher than if 115 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: you're a man. It is a question of gender. You 116 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: wanted to really highlight this. 117 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I realized that something like that existed because in 118 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: one side, it's obvious that women are always in the 119 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: front line of the battle against hunger. It's women who 120 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: has to take care usually of the nourishment of their children, 121 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: and who has to go to these places where they 122 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: can get something to give to their children. When you 123 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: go to a doctor's without Borders clinic, you see many 124 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: children and many women. There is also other things much 125 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: more rooted in some societies, which is the proper gender 126 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: hunger in very big societies in China, in India and 127 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: places like those, when there is not enough food, is 128 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: the man who get the few that there is. Women 129 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: don't eat, They didn't know that it was like that. 130 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: I was working in China. A guy he told me 131 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: that when he was very young, he had three elder sisters, 132 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: and when they have very little food, the sisters didn't 133 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: eat in order to allow him to eat. I told him, then, 134 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: your sisters must have hated you. 135 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: He said, no, why why? 136 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: I said, because you were taking her food. No, that's 137 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: like that. It's the way it is. I mean, it 138 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: was so normal for him that the sisters didn't eat 139 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: because he had to eat. I started to research, and 140 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: I found that it's a very widely diffused habit in 141 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: many cultures. 142 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 4: It was justified at the beginning by. 143 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: The fact that men were supposed to be the ones 144 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: who grew food. If they didn't eat enough, they couldn't work. 145 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 4: But it's not true. 146 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: I mean, in many of these cultures you see in 147 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: the fields women working at the same rhythm than men. 148 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: So one of the things that you talk about is 149 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: the kind of cliches that people have around the issue 150 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: of hunger. I remember as a little girl growing up 151 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: that my mom would say, you have to finish everything 152 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: that's on your plate because you have to think about 153 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: the hungry children of Bangladesh. 154 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: I don't think it's about a thing that this food 155 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: we are wasting is needed somewhere. You know that we 156 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: waste lots and lots of food in Europe, for instance, 157 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: it's been gauged that between thirty five and forty five 158 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: percent of the food that circulates here is wasted. But Bangladesh, 159 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: I think, is a special case. 160 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 5: If you ever wandered where your embroidered T shirts come from, 161 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 5: look no further. These women are among the four and 162 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 5: a half million Bangladeshi garment workers who make clothes. 163 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: Bangladesh has become the second world producer of textiles of 164 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: T shirts and trousers and everything we use very happily 165 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: because women working in the garment industry except to work 166 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: for twenty five or thirty dollars a month, and they 167 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: work twelve hours journeys, six days a week for this money, 168 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: just because the only alternative to that is hunger. So 169 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: hunger is a very powerful tool in the hands of 170 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: their bosses, their exploitss. 171 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 2: On your trip across the world, you went to Chicago, 172 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: to Buenos Aires, t Nijer, and each place is so different. 173 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 2: Is there one place that has stuck in your mind? 174 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: Well, there's a woman from Niger whom I met in 175 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: a very poor village, and she started to tell me 176 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: that first she grinded the meal with a wooden mortar. 177 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: With that she does far in. It's a cereal, very 178 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: poor cereal. I asked her do you eat that every day? 179 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: And she says, well, every day I can. I asked 180 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: her what would she do if a magician offer her 181 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: anything she wanted? And she said a cow, I can 182 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: milk her, and if I have a little bit more, 183 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: I can get some milk to my children and so 184 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: on so and I said, yeah, but I told you 185 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: he could give you everything you wanted. Don't you want 186 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: something else? And she said two cows. Then I understood 187 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: that we were speaking from very different places. 188 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 4: That kind of. 189 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: Poverty also closed is your possibility to wish in your 190 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: horizon or desire. I wanted to try to tell something 191 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: about this world which is so strange to us, from 192 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: which we live so in a way happily far away. 193 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 2: Right, So you document how hunger in nies are is 194 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: a structural problem, and it exists because there are systems 195 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: at play that prioritize other things instead of making sure 196 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: that everyone has enough to eat. 197 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: The land is very dry, very difficult to cultivate. 198 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 4: Niger Minx is the fourth host country on the planet, 199 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 4: and soil, however, is rich and mineral resources such as uranium. 200 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: So two companies, one French and one Chinese that extract 201 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: all the uranium from Niger and in the end, with 202 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: the money, you could build up irrigation and roads to 203 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: get an agriculture going on in that country. So it's 204 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: not the structures of the ecosystem of the soil, but 205 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: the structure of international commerce and economy and politics. 206 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino, USA, our conversation with author Martin 207 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 2: Cabaross continues, and next we go to Chicago. 208 00:13:23,840 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 5: Stay with us, not the bias. 209 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: Hey, we're back and we've been talking with author Martin 210 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: Caparos about his book Hunger. When we left off, we 211 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: were hearing about how the structure of international commerce has 212 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: had a deep impact on hunger around the world. We're 213 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: going to continue our conversation now. Now take me from 214 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: Niejer to the streets of Chicago. What does hunger in 215 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: Niere have to do with hunger in Chicago. 216 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: Chicago is the place where they fix the prices of 217 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: these food commodities all over the world. So when they 218 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: decide they are speculating because this is stock market. 219 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: It's so true. It gets traded at the Mercantile Exchange. 220 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 6: The see of Me is the world's largest and most 221 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 6: diverse financial exchange, and two thousand and six the cargo 222 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 6: market Tile Exchange transacted over one point three billion contracts. 223 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: When you speculate with corn, it means that a week 224 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: later there is a lot of people in some African 225 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: or region or a Latin American country not able to 226 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: buy their tortillas anymore, or their bread anymore, or whatever 227 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: they eat because the prices have risen up because of 228 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: this speculation. Everything is very intertwined, and that's the main 229 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: reason why there is hunger in the world. I mean, 230 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: we are able to produce enough food for they say, 231 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: like twelve billion people, and we are, as we know, 232 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: seven and a half billion people in this moment, So 233 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: we are able to feed everyone, but we don't do 234 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: it because the production of this food is just oriented 235 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: towards first world markets and not people that need it. 236 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: One of the things that comes up in your chapter 237 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: Around Chicago, you write about something which you call the 238 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: hunger industry, and you're thinking about Chicago, and the fact 239 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: that this is where commodities are bought and sold and 240 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: prices are set. It's also very political because you know 241 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: Michelle Obama, former first Lady, she was all about eating healthy, 242 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: but her attack on the issue of food and nutrition 243 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: never took on the food industry. Is that part of 244 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: what happens when you say, look, we could solve this, 245 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: but there's something that just doesn't want to let us 246 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: do that. 247 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: Of course, the food industry is enormously powerful, and they 248 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: need to work the way they work. Their only obligation 249 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: is to make more money. And when I said that 250 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: we are able to produce food for twelve billion people, 251 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: is because we have ways of producing it not organic, 252 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: that can feed everyone. I'm not against a mon sanna 253 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: or let's say, because they have some kinds of producing 254 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: that are not traditional. I me against them because they 255 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: have it just for making profit for them. Moreover, we 256 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: are not able to produce organic food for many Organic 257 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: food is produced in conditions that make it much more 258 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: expensive and difficult to do it. You need more ground, 259 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: you need more water, you need a lot of things. 260 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: Then they are more expensive and they are more exclusive. 261 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: It's very nice to have your own tomatoes and to 262 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: be sure that kind of food that you eat is 263 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: organically produced. But it doesn't change in the situation of 264 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: so many people. 265 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: When people think of Argentina, and specifically when they think 266 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: of Buenos Aires, it's like a version of a European 267 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: capital city. And yet when you visit Buenos Aires, you 268 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: paint this picture of hunger that is really very dramatic. 269 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: The poor of Buenoside is that you don't see there 270 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: actually racing for scraps of food. 271 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 272 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,479 Speaker 1: Well, in fact, could be a very nice, attractive city 273 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: in its center, but it's surrounded by ten million people 274 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: that live in very poor condition. Forty percent of people 275 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: in Argentina below the line of poverty according to the 276 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: last statistics, and they try to make a living as 277 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: they can. One of the things they do is to 278 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: try to grab food from the garbage. I accompanied some 279 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: of them when they go to a kind of artificial 280 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: mountain because it's garbage that cumulates there. 281 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 4: And then every day at five. 282 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: O'clock in the afternoon, they are given permission to run 283 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: to the top of that. 284 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 4: Hill where the new garbage is being thrown. 285 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: They ran there just to get the best garbage because 286 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: that's what they are going to eat. 287 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 4: It's really a terrible site. 288 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: You want us to read your book and not come 289 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: away throwing our arms up and saying there's nothing to 290 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: be done. What is it that each one of us, 291 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 2: in terms of our own personal responsibility has to this issue. 292 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: This political responsibility comes in terms of trying to do 293 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: things more or less together. I always think of the 294 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: example of ecologists forty something years ago. 295 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 4: The ecologic movement. 296 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: At the time in Paris was very, very small, and 297 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: now you can't even run for a mayor of a 298 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: little village anywhere without explaining how you're going to save 299 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: the planet. Right, Why couldn't we do the same with hunger? 300 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: The only evident main reason is that we feel that 301 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: the ecological threat threatens all of us, while hunger it 302 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: always happens to others. 303 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 4: But we should be able. 304 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: To make it matter if we get our representatives to 305 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: be in need of talking about them, because if they 306 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: don't do it, they were going to be dismissed. I 307 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: think that's the only way. 308 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 2: Do you want all of us to kind of walk 309 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: around and be highly aware of it at all times? 310 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 2: Is that something that you would hope that we take away. 311 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, I want as many as possible to 312 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: be aware of the fact that it's an absolute shame 313 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: that in a world that is able to feed everyone, 314 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: there is still eight hundred million people that don't it enough. 315 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: If that's not a shame, shame doesn't exist. We have 316 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: to know it and feel it and resolve to do 317 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: something about it. 318 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 2: Martin Cabarros, thank you so much for your work on 319 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: hunger and for speaking with me today. 320 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 4: Thank you, Mariya. 321 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: Martin Cabaros is the author of nearly thirty books. The 322 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 2: English edition of his book Hunger is out now. This 323 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: episode was produced by Johanne Luna and adrian Na Tapia 324 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 2: and edited by Sophia Plisa car The Latino USA team 325 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 2: includes Miel massiez Antonia se Dejidro, Jansiamoca, and Alissa Scarce. 326 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 2: Our engineers are Stephanie Lebou and Julia Caruso. Additional engineering 327 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: this week by Leah Shaw. Our production manager is Natalia Fiderholtz. 328 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 2: Our digital editor is Amandel Cantra. Our interns are Julia 329 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: Nees Barsa and Julia Rocha. Our theme music was composed 330 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: by Zee Robinos. If you like the music you heard 331 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: on this episode, Stop by Latinousa dot org and check 332 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 2: out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive 333 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: producer Maria Rosa. Join us again on our next episode, 334 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: and in the meantime, I'll see you on all of 335 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: our social media aste. Approxima Choe. 336 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 4: Funding for Latino USA's coverage of a Culture of Health 337 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 4: is made possible in part by a grant from the 338 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 4: Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. 339 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Annie 340 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: Casey Foundation. 341 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 4: Creates a brighter future for the nation's children by strengthening families, 342 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 4: building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities and W. K. 343 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 4: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with communities where children come First.