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Speaker 1: Guys, I want to tell you I am so excited

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Speaker 1: and so blessed. Something wonderful is happening. A lot of

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Speaker 1: you have asked when will you be back on TV,

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Speaker 1: and I've wondered the same thing. Well it's happening. It's

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Speaker 1: this Thursday night, premiering on A and E. Grace Versus Abrams,

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Speaker 1: my sparring buddy Dan Abrams and I take on the

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Speaker 1: biggest cases and investigations that our country has ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Thursday night, March nine, eleven pm. Please join us again.

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Speaker 1: I am so blessed and you've been with me for

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Speaker 1: all these years. Please join me on A and E

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Speaker 1: March eleven pm. Thanks friend. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. Have Birthday, Dear,

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Speaker 1: Happy birthday to you. Blow your candle. Good job, but

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Speaker 1: you're five years old tomorrow. That was Lucas's fifth birthday

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Speaker 1: party as people joined in to say happy birthday, baby Lucas. Today,

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Speaker 1: Missing Lucas and the desperate search for a five year

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Speaker 1: old boy who disappears while step mom was napping. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. A desperate search launched for a five year

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Speaker 1: old taught boy missing from his own home. We want

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Speaker 1: answers with me. Kim Martin leading the effort to find

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Speaker 1: Lucas with missing pieces now work. Karen Smith, renowned forensic expert,

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Speaker 1: joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction. Ashley Wilcott, juvenile

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Speaker 1: judge and founder of Child Crime watch dot com. Dr

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Speaker 1: Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist and founder of Goal Attainment

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Speaker 1: dot com, and Chuck Roberts Crime Stories investigative reporter straight

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Speaker 1: out to Kim Martin, I want to start at day

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Speaker 1: one hour one, Kim, between you and Chuck, I hope

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Speaker 1: to cobble together a clear picture of what has happened

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Speaker 1: with Lucas. You start, Kim, once your understanding with the

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Speaker 1: moment that Lucas disappears, the moment he disappeared is actually

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Speaker 1: up for debate. Quite honestly, Um. His stepmother, Emily stated

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Speaker 1: that she took a nap at three o'clock. When she

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Speaker 1: woke up, she contacted the police m at six fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Hold on Chuck Roberts wants and Chuck News reports have

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Speaker 1: been um conflicting, as Kim Martin has pointed out, what's

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Speaker 1: your understanding of the facts, Chuck Roberts's too, when he disappeared,

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Speaker 1: where he disappeared? How who? What were wife? When? Give

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Speaker 1: me the nuts and bolts. Well, it's important remember the

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Speaker 1: family had just moved in there ten days earlier. It

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Speaker 1: was a rental house in a different part of town,

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Speaker 1: so Lucas five girl wasn't familiar with anything around there.

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Speaker 1: But the mother obviously went to sleep for the exact

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Speaker 1: period of time. It's do you say mother or stepmother?

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Speaker 1: The stepmother, Emily blast year old woman, Uh and um,

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Speaker 1: she took a nap and when she got up she

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Speaker 1: later much later told police that Lucas was missing, but

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Speaker 1: she waited a time before she called police her The

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Speaker 1: boy's shoes were still there, his coat was still there.

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Speaker 1: But it's important to remember it was sixty four degrees

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Speaker 1: and Sonny, it was unusually warm that day and for

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Speaker 1: the next two or three days. So here's a little boy.

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Speaker 1: You know, his his dad is off into Mexico working.

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Speaker 1: He's an unfamiliar neighborhood. It's unusually warm outside and sunny.

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Speaker 1: His mom is sleeping in a bedroom. Uh. And you

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Speaker 1: know he may have gone outside at that point of

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Speaker 1: his own accord. That's one theory, but in any case,

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Speaker 1: she calls police and reports them missing somewhere in the

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Speaker 1: six o'clock hour of that evening. I'm trying to take

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Speaker 1: it all in. You hear the Happy Birthday song being

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Speaker 1: sung to Lucas Hernandez, and then out of nowhere, seemingly

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Speaker 1: he just disappears. The five year old Todd goes missing. Wichita,

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Speaker 1: Kansas Police say that she the step mom, had last

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Speaker 1: seen the boy around three pm in his bedroom before

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Speaker 1: she took a shower and lay down for a quick nap.

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Speaker 1: A major search launched for Lucas, described by school teachers

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Speaker 1: as quote a very sweet boy. Tell me about the search.

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Speaker 1: Kim aren't from Missing Pieces network. What was done to

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Speaker 1: try to find Lucas? At the outset? The police were there,

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Speaker 1: Wichita Police at one point they brought SWAT teams in.

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Speaker 1: You know, everybody was canvassing the neighborhood, and pretty early

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Speaker 1: on they had stated that they did not believe that

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Speaker 1: it was an abduction, that there was no sign that

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Speaker 1: anyone came into the house and removed Lucas. You know,

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Speaker 1: I hear that, I hear that Kim and I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out where they're getting that from. Chuck. Were

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Speaker 1: there any forced entries, any door jimmy ending windows, anything

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Speaker 1: like that at all, Chuck Roberts, No, there wasn't, and

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Speaker 1: there were the canvased obviously the neighborhood, and no strangers

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Speaker 1: had been seen about. Uh so there's something like that

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Speaker 1: that they can follow up on. As we know, that's

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Speaker 1: very powerful proof. But on the other hand, you have

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Speaker 1: cases like Elizabeth Smart and so many others where the

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Speaker 1: unthinkable does occur. A stranger comes in your home and

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Speaker 1: takes your baby. Listen right now to Kansas Police officer

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Speaker 1: Charlie Davidson announcing Lucas has vanished. It is with a

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Speaker 1: heavy heart, I'm here with you today, still missing. It's

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Speaker 1: five year old Lucas Fernandez. Lucas was last scene wearing

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Speaker 1: black sweats, white sox, and a gray shirt with a

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Speaker 1: bear on it. Our thoughts and prayers remain with Lucas

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Speaker 1: and Lucas's family as we are diligently investigating the situation.

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Speaker 1: On Friday, February seventeenth, that approximately six fifteen officers were

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Speaker 1: dispatched to a lost juvenile call at a residence in

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Speaker 1: the six hundred block of South Edgemore. When they arrived,

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Speaker 1: they made contact with the twenty six year old female

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Speaker 1: who is the stepmother of Lucas. She reported the officer

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Speaker 1: that she last saw Lucas in his bedroom and approximately

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Speaker 1: three pm prior to her showering and falling asleep. Officers

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Speaker 1: and canine units have dylug dyalt alately checked the home

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Speaker 1: and the neighborhood with no luck of locating Lucas at

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Speaker 1: this time. Currently, which top Police Department detectives continue to

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Speaker 1: speak with family and follow up with any leads regarding

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Speaker 1: this unfortunate situation. Additionally, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has

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Speaker 1: sent in resources as well as their Child Abduction Rapid

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Speaker 1: Deployment Team their CARD Team known as the Card Team

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Speaker 1: to assist us with this investigation. Also, the Emergency Operation

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Speaker 1: Command Center has been activated. So we are asking the

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Speaker 1: community with has any information regarding this case, so police

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Speaker 1: call tips into three one six three three four six

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Speaker 1: six one and there will be individuals at our employment

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Speaker 1: or excuse me, Emergency Operation Command Center to answer those tips.

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Speaker 1: Photographs of Lucas are polk posted on the WPD, Facebook

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Speaker 1: and Twitter pages. I know many of the community have

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Speaker 1: shown willingness to come and take part in a search party,

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Speaker 1: and we do appreciate the willingness of the citizens to

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Speaker 1: come and help us in this investigation. However, at this point,

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Speaker 1: we're asking citizens to share the information on their social

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Speaker 1: media pages and called the tip line with any information.

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Speaker 1: We do currently have investigators and officers that are continuing

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Speaker 1: to search the area for Lucas. Joining in right now

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Speaker 1: renowned forensics expert Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: who has studied the case very carefully. Karen, at that juncture,

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Speaker 1: what should police be doing? The first thing I would

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Speaker 1: do is try to find out who else had a

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Speaker 1: visual on the boy at what time. Absolutely, you want

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Speaker 1: to look at emily glasses associates, who was she hanging

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Speaker 1: out with, who does she know? You're gonna look at

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Speaker 1: cell phone records to find out who she was calling beforehand.

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Speaker 1: And going back to that you know, not fource entry

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Speaker 1: four entry question. The rear door was apparently open, so

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Speaker 1: police would definitely need to do some DNA swabs and

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Speaker 1: fingerprints on that door to rule in and rule out

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Speaker 1: people who have used it. That's just simple forensic tools

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Speaker 1: and that could establish leads, or it could establish that

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Speaker 1: there was nobody else that came through that door. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as police said, they don't believe that

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Speaker 1: Lucas just walked out of the house. There was also

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Speaker 1: no amber alert. Um. That means that they did not

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Speaker 1: believe there was an abduction. So that's also a large clue.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about what they could do. First

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Speaker 1: of all, if he Lucas, the five year old boy.

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Speaker 1: Ashley Walcott, juvenile judge with me, founder of child crime

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Speaker 1: watch dot com. Ashley, if he had been in his bedroom,

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Speaker 1: I would assume that a would dust for prints on

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Speaker 1: the door, there was left ajar, the back door, the

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Speaker 1: all over his bedroom, his bed, the bathroom door where

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Speaker 1: he may have been, all around the yard, whatever objects

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Speaker 1: were still out in the yard, whether it was a

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Speaker 1: ball or anything that would suggest he had walked outside.

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Speaker 1: I would also look, Ashley, if anyone else in the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood had surveillance video on their front door that could

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Speaker 1: have seen a car or a boy or a man

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Speaker 1: go by. I mean, in so many cases we have

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Speaker 1: surveillance video from neighbors that can show a car and

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Speaker 1: when zoomed in, you can even get a talk car

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Speaker 1: tag number around the time the child goes missing. We've

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Speaker 1: got like a three hour window, uh, from three to six.

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Speaker 1: What else could they be doing? Ashley exactly that collecting

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Speaker 1: all of the forensic evidence, they can look for footprint,

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Speaker 1: it's outside of the doors. They can look to see

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Speaker 1: are there any marks on windows or doors where they've

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Speaker 1: apparently been jimmied. And let me suggest this, for the

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Speaker 1: police to say we do not believe this child has

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Speaker 1: been abducted, I would count my money on the fact

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Speaker 1: that there's evidence that it was not an abduction. So

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Speaker 1: I suspect they've already taken all those forensic steps and

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Speaker 1: have eliminated abduction as a possible um what happened to

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Speaker 1: this child in this case? And the other thing I

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Speaker 1: would say, Nancy is you know remember investigators, as you

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Speaker 1: well know, they can't give us all the information that

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Speaker 1: they have because it's an ongoing investigation. So there's more

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Speaker 1: than the public knows about what they found. For those

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Speaker 1: of you just joining us, we're talking about a five

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Speaker 1: year old boy, Lucas Hernandez. Lucas goes missing out of

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Speaker 1: his own home in the Witchita, Kansas area, not site

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Speaker 1: nor sound, hide nor hair has been seen of the

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Speaker 1: boys since Do we know Chuck Roberts if there have

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Speaker 1: been any sightings of him? No, And obviously they've scoured

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Speaker 1: all the parks in all the places public places around

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Speaker 1: uh and there's been an appeal for landowners in the

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Speaker 1: area to walk their property and make sure there's no

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Speaker 1: sign of anybody. So it's been a very very comprehensive

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Speaker 1: search with volunteer and official teams doing it. Aquasearch has

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Speaker 1: been involved off and on for the last two or

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Speaker 1: three weeks, but really nothing has turned up that that

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Speaker 1: that produces any hope that he'll be found alive. What

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Speaker 1: do we know about the stepmother and the father? You know,

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Speaker 1: it gets more and more difficult. Dr Chloe Carmichael with me,

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Speaker 1: renowned New York psychologist, founder of goal Attainment dot com.

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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe. The more that families um are patched together.

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Speaker 1: No God bless him, had at together family myself through

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Speaker 1: my grandmother, UM, the harder it is to ascertain the facts.

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Speaker 1: Because you've got the mother where is she? You've got

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Speaker 1: the father where is he? You got the stepmother, you

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Speaker 1: got the boyfriend, you got the half siblings, the teen

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Speaker 1: brother that this that that the one in college, the

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Speaker 1: one from the first marriage. I mean, it gets I'm

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Speaker 1: happy everybody's blending so beautifully. But as far as the

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Speaker 1: crime analyst goes, You've got a lot of avenues to

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Speaker 1: chase down trying to find this boy. And frankly, that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm worried about. Who could have taken him? Why

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Speaker 1: was it the bio mom? Was it an angry aunt?

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Speaker 1: Was it this? Was it that the movers They just

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Speaker 1: moved ten days before tod to move or see him,

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Speaker 1: and one of molest him. I don't know, So help

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Speaker 1: me figure out. Where's the mother, where's the father? What

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Speaker 1: do I know about this stepmother? Dr Chloe helped me out?

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Speaker 1: And isn't it true? Dr Chloe that moving is one

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Speaker 1: of the top five most stressful things that happens in

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Speaker 1: a life. I mean, I most so many times I

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Speaker 1: can't even count. Maybe that's why I'm jatted up all

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Speaker 1: the time. But it's very stressful. And they had just moved.

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Speaker 1: They probably still had boxes full of stuff sitting around. Chloe. Yes, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. Of course, moving is one of the

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Speaker 1: top five stresses in life, and it poses an emotional

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Speaker 1: stress because we're you know, uprooting ourselves. And then it

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Speaker 1: also poses a cognitive stress because there's so many balls

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Speaker 1: in the air and so many things that we're trying

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Speaker 1: to coordinate and keep track of. And of course in

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Speaker 1: those situations, you know, it's it's it's more easy, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: for um, for things like this possibly to happen if

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Speaker 1: it were you know, truly just that the parents were

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Speaker 1: absent minded. Here. On the other hand, as you were saying, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that with blended families, issues of anger, alliances and possessiveness

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Speaker 1: between the family members as they negotiate and struggle to

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Speaker 1: under stand where the loyalty lies. Sometimes that can kick

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Speaker 1: up some extremely violatile emotions. So and as well moving itself,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're going through all the old photos and

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Speaker 1: the memories and things like that. In many ways, it

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Speaker 1: can set up quite a psychological storm. Psychological storm that's

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Speaker 1: just ringing through my head. Ashley. UM, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sound callous, Okay, My family's blended, Okay, but it's

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Speaker 1: just very hard on detectives and crime analysts to chase

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Speaker 1: down everybody connected to a missing child. When it gets

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Speaker 1: it gets so complicated, then you find out there's an

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Speaker 1: ex girlfriend, the ex wife, where is she? What? Are

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Speaker 1: there kids in college? Siblings? Is there a crazy aunt?

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Speaker 1: Is there a child luster uncle? I mean it just

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Speaker 1: it goes on and on and on, and people sit

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Speaker 1: back and throw stones at the cops. I mean they're trying.

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Speaker 1: Ashley backed me up on this absolutely. And let me

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Speaker 1: tell you, as a judge, here's what I see. Investigations

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Speaker 1: leading to actual charges and trials may take a very

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Speaker 1: long time for that very reason, because the law enforcement

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Speaker 1: has to pay attention to every tiny detail. They have

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Speaker 1: to follow every lead, because you never know when one

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Speaker 1: of the little details is going to be the one

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Speaker 1: that breaks the case. And Nancy, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you remember. I'm sure you do. The case. I think

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Speaker 1: you mentioned it on your show with the glass eyeball,

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Speaker 1: and the way to identify a victim was because of that, Ulie.

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Speaker 1: Never know what lead or what little tiny piece of

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Speaker 1: evidence is going to tie it all together so they

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Speaker 1: can actually common who committed the crime. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you something about that. It was even more attenuated. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about a case I mentioned, I think yesterday, that

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Speaker 1: happened in Atlanta when I was still prosecuting felonies in

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Speaker 1: inner City, Atlanta during that ten year spam and um

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Speaker 1: uh gorgeous young kindergarten teacher. I think she taught like

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Speaker 1: dance and movement or something like that in kindergarten. Julie

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Speaker 1: Loved that was actually her name, Julie Love. As she

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Speaker 1: had been out jogging and a car was following her.

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Speaker 1: So she did what I've done many times. You pretend

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Speaker 1: you're going up a driveway to your house, which is

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Speaker 1: of course not your house. Well, somehow this gang in

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Speaker 1: the car figured out, hey, that's not her house. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how they knew it, and they waited, they hid,

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Speaker 1: and they waited until she came back down the driveway

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Speaker 1: and started jogging again. Then abducted her. They beat her mercilessly,

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Speaker 1: assaulted her horribly, and then murdered her. All that was

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Speaker 1: left of her body near a dumpster was a glass eyeball.

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Speaker 1: I think ultimately they found some bones that had been

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Speaker 1: scattered by animals. But catch this Ashley at the outset,

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Speaker 1: I went to the elected d a who was like

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Speaker 1: a grandfather and me and said, you know, you got

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Speaker 1: to go after the boyfriend. And he'm like now and

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Speaker 1: I had never seen him. I mean, you could just

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Speaker 1: defy common sense. He said, it's just not enough. He

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Speaker 1: wouldn't even explain it to me. Okay, So I was

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Speaker 1: way down low on the totem pole, barking at his

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Speaker 1: heels about and the rest. So he didn't and it

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Speaker 1: always perplexed me why he didn't go after the boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Well he was right because about I guess it was

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Speaker 1: a year. Two years later, a woman calls and said

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Speaker 1: she had been beaten up and she was afraid for

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Speaker 1: her life from her boyfriend and ps a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, he murdered that kindergarten teacher. That's how the

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Speaker 1: case broke. So they speak to this beating victim. As

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Speaker 1: I recall it, I hope I have the facts correct.

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Speaker 1: They speak to her and she starts talking, and they

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Speaker 1: piece it together who this person, this alleged victim was.

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Speaker 1: It's all they had to go on. They go to

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Speaker 1: the area where she said the body was disposed, and

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Speaker 1: sure enough they find the glass eyeball. That that's how

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Speaker 1: I recall it worked. Now, that's been a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: and that's how I recall the facts. But that's how

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Speaker 1: attenuated it is. Sometimes when the case is solved and

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Speaker 1: then the whole thing, of course, cracked wide open. And

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Speaker 1: the district attorney was right and I was wrong. So

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Speaker 1: you're right. You never know when you're chasing down all

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Speaker 1: these alleys and you come up with nothing where to

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Speaker 1: turn next. So to you, Kim Martin Missing Pieces Network,

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Speaker 1: You've been on the case from the get go. Where

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Speaker 1: is the um? Are we sure the dad was in

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Speaker 1: the bio mom? Are we sure the dad's in Mexico,

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Speaker 1: New Mexico at the time? And what do we know

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Speaker 1: about the step mom? That's a loaded question, Kim. Um

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Speaker 1: Lucas father left for work in New Mexico on the

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Speaker 1: night he scheduled. He works twenty days on and ten

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Speaker 1: days off. A lot of early reports said that he

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Speaker 1: was working in Texas, which he did last year, but

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Speaker 1: he had recently switched as a working in New Mexico.

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Speaker 1: He works in on an oil rig. He does something

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Speaker 1: with an oil rig. Oh, yes, I recall that. Now,

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Speaker 1: you're right, and that's true. My my one of my

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Speaker 1: best girlfriends, Um, who happens to be a defense lawyer. Family,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them are on the oil rigs, and

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Speaker 1: you know they're gone for long periods of time. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So that explains. That satisfies my question about the father,

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Speaker 1: because yes, they're telling me he's out of town, but

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Speaker 1: I naturally want to know really where? How long? Why

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Speaker 1: can you verify it? Okay, so that's verified. Now tell

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Speaker 1: me about the bio mom and the step mom. What

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Speaker 1: do we know the biological mother was The last time

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Speaker 1: she was actually in Kansas was January one. She lived

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, and I've been in touch with her as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: she's devastated. Um. She is in Wichita now and has

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Speaker 1: been since five o'clock the next day after he went missing. Kim,

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Speaker 1: let me stop you right there, you poor thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I asked you a question and just jump right in.

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Speaker 1: But what you're saying when I have to go out

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Speaker 1: of town, Kim, I'm miserable. I'm away from the twins,

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Speaker 1: I actually, believe it or not. Can't eat. I am miserable.

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Speaker 1: I'm worried. Um, it's always for work. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: focus on work and nothing else. But I'm worried. I'm

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Speaker 1: worried sick about them, And maybe it's my line of business,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I actually physically cannot eat and I

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Speaker 1: can Oh, Dear Lord in Heaven, it's just making me

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Speaker 1: feel ill. I just had to go to New York

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Speaker 1: this past a week to work on my new A

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Speaker 1: and E show I'm so blessed to have with Dan

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Speaker 1: Abrams and Um. I thought I was going to get

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Speaker 1: snowed in, and I was at the airport, sitting on

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Speaker 1: the floor and just praying, please let me get back

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Speaker 1: to the twins. And I cannot imagine getting a phone

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Speaker 1: call that one of the twins are missing and I'm

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Speaker 1: in another state, sitting on the floor at an airport.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just it's it's upsetting to even imagine

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Speaker 1: that scenario. You've answered my question, Kim about the mom

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Speaker 1: being in another state. How is she? Oh, Dear Lord

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Speaker 1: in Heaven, Kim, how is the mom doing? She's not

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Speaker 1: doing well. I'll be honest, Um, as you can imagine

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Speaker 1: exactly like you said, Nancy, in a case like this

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Speaker 1: where there's so many players, blame is being thrown, rumors

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Speaker 1: are being thrown, and you know the backlash that has

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Speaker 1: come to her. You know, everyone is suspecting someone. So

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Speaker 1: it's been it's been really bad tough on the family.

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Speaker 1: They've had to step back from the searching because people

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Speaker 1: are harassing them threatening them, you know, and at this

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Speaker 1: point I'm just trying to mediate. You know, Let's find Lucas.

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Speaker 1: Then we can blame what whoever? Wait wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean people are harassing them and threatening them? Oh? Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: why everyone thinks that such and so did it for

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Speaker 1: this reason or this reason. It's becomes so ridiculous. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: off topic. The topic is finding Lucas. I don't care

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Speaker 1: who did it, blaming who did what when that comes afterwards.

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Speaker 1: Right now, there's a little boy out there, quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: on the side of the road somewhere. I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: about what that mom went through. So I've cleared. I

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Speaker 1: really do hate to say it like this, Ashley roll Cop,

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Speaker 1: but I'll just put it out there. You've cleared the

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Speaker 1: top two suspects, the mom and the dad. Because when

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Speaker 1: a kid, a child goes missing, you look immediately at

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Speaker 1: the nuclear family. Then you look at aunt's uncle's grandparents

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Speaker 1: who had a boned pick with the way the child

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Speaker 1: was raised or this or that. Then you look at

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Speaker 1: the neighbors in the neighborhood. But let's let me think

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Speaker 1: about the neighbors in the neighborhood for a moment, Karen Smith,

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Speaker 1: you're the forensic expert. The first Another first things, there's

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Speaker 1: so many first things to do, is to look up

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Speaker 1: all the child sex the sex predators in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: They don't even have to be child sex predators, just

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Speaker 1: sex predators. And how do you go about doing that

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Speaker 1: here in Smith? How do you find out if there's

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Speaker 1: a sex predator in your zip code? Well, police are

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Speaker 1: going to have lists of who lives where, They're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to have check in points. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: still going to be on probation parole. They're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to check in with all of those people as well,

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Speaker 1: and do knock in talks as simple as knocking talks.

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Speaker 1: Where were you, what were you doing, give me your timeline,

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Speaker 1: we you know, if we may have to get a

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Speaker 1: warrant for your cell phone. All of those questions are

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Speaker 1: going to have to be asked and answered by every

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Speaker 1: single one of the people. And we're talking about not

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Speaker 1: just the neighborhood. You know, sex predators aren't limited to

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Speaker 1: just blocks. They go where they want to go, when

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Speaker 1: they want to go there. So this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: it widens the net so far for police and it's

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Speaker 1: going to stretch their reserves. It's going to stretch their

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Speaker 1: you know, they're going to be exhausted. But they have

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Speaker 1: to follow every single lead with these people, well you know,

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Speaker 1: with me of course in the background, you can't hear him,

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Speaker 1: Alan Deep, Alan jump in. I mean you can go

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Speaker 1: to our website crime online dot com and put in

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Speaker 1: how I find my sex predators and my zip code? Uh.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you go to Google and put find

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Speaker 1: sex predator by zip code, tons um sex offender registries

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Speaker 1: pop up. You've got the U. S. Department of Justice.

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Speaker 1: You've got us Crime Online, Free Sex Offender Registry, Neighborhood

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Speaker 1: Watch Sex Offender Registry. I mean, it goes on and

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Speaker 1: on and on right Alan, Yes, and the most official

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Speaker 1: maybe the U. S. Department of Justice. They've got the

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Speaker 1: National Sex Offender uh website that we will link to

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Speaker 1: in the story that goes with this podcast. There is

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Speaker 1: a group called Lucas Warriors, a group of citizens that

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Speaker 1: have heated the call to search for missing Lucas and

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Speaker 1: they formed in hopes of finding him. They are doing

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Speaker 1: all they can, the Lucas Warriors. Won't you join us

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Speaker 1: in the search for Lucas Hernandez is five year old

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Speaker 1: little boy going missing out of his own I want

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Speaker 1: to go on to the stepmother. What do we know

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Speaker 1: about her? Is she actually Roberts? Is she married to

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Speaker 1: the dad? Is she the girlfriend? Does she have children?

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Speaker 1: What do we know about her? She is the living

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend. Uh. They've been together for a little bit

427
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: more than a year. Uh, and she and the bio movie.

428
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: So I don't know that I would call that as

429
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: hold on, I don't know that I would call that

430
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: a stepmother. No, I mean, hold on, let let me

431
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: ask ash Ash Wilcot, Juvenile Judge, Child Crime watch dot

432
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: Com year slung up together. I don't know that i'd

433
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: call that a stepmother. No. I mean, that's just a

434
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: that's just a smell test right here. But I would

435
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: not call a girlfriend a stepmother. Yeah, and it really

436
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 1: bothers me. The devil's in the details, and so well,

437
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: I get that. Maybe some people say, oh, it's a stepmom.

438
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: That's a significant difference. Is there a commitment there where

439
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: they've chosen to get married and raised their children together

440
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: or is it just a girlfriend. I mean there is

441
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: a difference, not only legally, but how you may treat

442
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: children and how you may interact, you know, uh to

443
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist, Goal Attainment dot com.

444
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, people say, is marriage any different than living

445
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: together or being boyfriend girlfriend? I would say no, not

446
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: really for me anyway, until children enter the picture, and

447
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: then it's a whole another ball game game on. It's

448
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: like an endurance test, really, it really is. I mean,

449
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: in the morning, it's like who can feed the guinea pigs,

450
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: who can lay out the clothes, who can make this,

451
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: who can do that, who can get them in the car?

452
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: Blah blah. It's just it's like NASA precision timing, and

453
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, you've gotta have a partner who's committed. I mean, sure,

454
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: I can do it on my own. I do it

455
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: on my own all the time. But when you're in

456
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: a relationship and you're and you have children, that's a

457
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: whole another level of commitment. And let me tell you something, um,

458
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: it takes a very special person to be in a

459
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: committed relationship when children are involved, Dr Chloe. It certainly does, Nancy.

460
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: And it takes a very special person to be committed

461
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: to somebody else's children. So, of course, in psychology we

462
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: have all kinds of books and therapies about the process

463
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: of being a step parent. Um. It's it's not something

464
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: that's should be done easily or lightly by anybody. Um

465
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: And absolutely Nancy. When people live together, it's one thing, Um.

466
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: But when they get married, of course there's a symbolic

467
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: sense of coming together as one in your flesh and blood.

468
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: That you're coming together as one, and that already exists.

469
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: Of course when you have a child that actually is

470
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: your own flesh and blood. So there's a lot of

471
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: complicated dynamics there. But as a parent, when you have

472
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: another person in the home who is not actually committed

473
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 1: to the future of those children the same way that

474
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: you are, Um, things can get really mess them. And

475
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: so I'm glad you're bringing attention to that that families

476
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: and blended families they have some extra work to do

477
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: and making sure that those allegiances are clear because kids

478
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: need that. We're talking right now about the step mom

479
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: as she is called. It sounds more like a living

480
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: girlfriend and me Emily Glass, twenty six years old. Lucas Hernandez,

481
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: five years old, goes missing while she is taking a nap.

482
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: She told cops she took a shower and lay down

483
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: to take a nap, and when she woke up, no Lucas,

484
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: no signs of a break in, nothing stolen from the home,

485
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: but the back door was open. Now what do we

486
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: know about her as an individual out to Kim Martin

487
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: Missing Pieces network? What do we know? I know she's

488
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: very attractive, she's a young lady that had been living

489
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: with the dad. What else do we know about her background?

490
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: She has two older children, UM that she does not

491
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: have custody of. UM. She doesn't actually have even joint

492
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: legal custody, which in Kansas is rather rare from what

493
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: I understand. UM. And they also she and UM Jonathan

494
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: Lucas's father also have a one year old daughter. Okay,

495
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: whoa wa white white white. She's got two children that

496
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: are older than Lucas. How old are they do we know?

497
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: I don't know right off? Where all they can't They

498
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: could be six, and you know, they could still be

499
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: very young and be older than him. He's only five.

500
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: So where are they? They live with their father, their

501
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: biological okay, and there with the bio dad, So they're alive.

502
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: They're being taken care of. Then there's Lucas. The five

503
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: all and you're telling me she has a one year

504
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: old little girl with Lucas's father. Correct, Where was the

505
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: one year old girl at the time Lucas goes missing.

506
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: We believe she was napping with Emily, so her biological

507
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: child is okay. Lucas goes missing. Lucas has brown hair

508
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: and brown eyes. He's only four ft tall. He only

509
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: weighs sixty pounds. Actually, Nancy, not to go ahead. This

510
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: is interesting. I think that when the report was made

511
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: that he was missing, Emily said he was four ft

512
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: tall and sixty pounds. It's actually closer to forty pounds.

513
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: IFDs he likely weighs. Please correct me. I mean that's

514
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: that right there. That means something to me. I'm just

515
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: a j D. I'm certainly not an m D. But

516
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: as she Willcott, I'm trying to remember what Lucy and

517
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: John David wave when they were five. If you're four

518
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: ft tall, you should weigh more than thirty eight pounds.

519
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: You sure should. Red flag red flag, red flag. A

520
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: she didn't know the weight of her own child, and

521
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: be she might have purposely lied because thirty eight pounds

522
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: is small. That's a small child at that height. Something

523
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: is wrong again, I'm just a j D, not an

524
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: m D. But I can tell you this much that's

525
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: not right. Either she didn't know the way is Ashley

526
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: Wilcott is pointing out, or the child was extremely malnourished. Hey,

527
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: Kim Martin, correct me anytime you want to, because I

528
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: want the facts correctly out there. So Lucas brown hair,

529
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: brown eyes, and once you see his face, you're gonna

530
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: fall in love with this little boy, and you're gonna

531
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: understand why we want so desperately to find him. Four

532
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: ft tall, were now weighing probably under forty pounds, wearing

533
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: black sweats, white socks, a gray shirt with a bear

534
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: on it. I'm I'm confused about something. Um, I'm looking

535
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: at a photo to see actually have a bruise on

536
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: his face. Chuck Roberts, Yes, and I'm not sure that

537
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: police have illuminated that as as a as a direct

538
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: connection to his disappearance. But you don't don't forget that

539
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: family members in Mexico say that Emily Last had thrown

540
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: water in his face, that Lucas told them that she

541
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: had kicked him and dragged him across the room, and

542
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: that his step mom was quote mean to be so

543
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: there's there's certainly that aspect. Okay, you're just giving me

544
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: chills on my arms right now. It reminded me of

545
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 1: all the cases I prosecuted with child victims that could

546
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: not really articulate what had been done to them, and

547
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: they would say things like them mean to me. I

548
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: want you to listen to Lucas's great aunt, Sally Resumeusen.

549
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: Because I was a CPS investigator myself, you know, I

550
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: would feel helpless. She was sent photos of Lucas last

551
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: year and some moll to pull bruises on his face

552
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: and neck, So she says she called protective Services all

553
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: these stories I've been hearing for months about him possibly

554
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: being abuted. She only got more concerned after the father

555
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: and son came to New Mexico for work. She says

556
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: she and another relative saw more signs that the child

557
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: was hurt, and so another report was filed in that state,

558
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: and they investigated and had a frantic interview and all

559
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff and sent him. I guess the

560
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: police didn't think there was enough evidence. When I first

561
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: found out he was missing, I um was suspicious and

562
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: then worried. The child's great grandmother says Lucas once told

563
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: her his step mom kicked dragged him across the room

564
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: and that she reported her concerns to child protection. Don't

565
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: I don't understand, um too, Kim Martin. Didn't the dad

566
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: know about this? Yes, there's there's been the confusion about that.

567
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: It actually appears probably four or five different people reported

568
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: suspected abuse, um from the biolosts, from the maternal mother's

569
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: side of the family and the paternal side of the family.

570
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: So this is Lucas's father's family reporting the abuse. Also, UM.

571
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for Jonathan, but he believed

572
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: in the has stated that it's it's unfounded that family

573
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: did not. Why is there a bruise? And one of

574
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: these photos, Nancy, there are sixteen photos that I've seen,

575
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: and some of them they'll break your heart, you know,

576
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: all over his body, his arms, his back, his rear, end,

577
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: his legs, you know, I don't, I don't know. It

578
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: seems to need it was something they were conflicted stories

579
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: about jurisdictional issues, and one department would say, no, you

580
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: need to contact this department. And you know, at all

581
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: I know is that Lucas said, Emily hurts me. He

582
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: did not call her mom step mom. He called her

583
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: Emily Karen Smith with me, forensics expert, and I want

584
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: to follow up on what you do to verify of

585
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: a child has been mistreated, abused and beaten. But I'll

586
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: tell you a funny story. Um. I remember one night, Ashley,

587
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: I came home from h l N. I got home

588
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: and about a quarter of ten, Lucy, who should have

589
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: been asleep, was crying that her dad had spanked her. Well,

590
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: of course I threw a fit because I don't didn't

591
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: want them to be spanked unless it was absolutely necessary,

592
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: he said, Nancy, I've never spanked her in my whole life.

593
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: I spanked her with two fingers on her arm. Well,

594
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: of course, Ashley, don't tell the children, but you know

595
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: I have the whole place tricked out with cameras and alarms,

596
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: and you touched the screen and it goes off, blah blah. Well,

597
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 1: you know I sat up after I got Lucy calm

598
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: down and in bed and asleep, and I sat up

599
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: and rewound the whole thing shut enough. She went over

600
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: to John David as he's sitting there watching whatever on PBS.

601
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: Wild crats those brothers that play with animals. She comes

602
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: up to him with a wooden block and hits him,

603
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean rears back and hits him in the head

604
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: with the block. Okay, for no reason. So John, David,

605
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: I'm watching the video. I can't hear it. I can

606
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: only see it falls over like screaming, I'm sure, like

607
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: kicking and writhing, and David goes over. I can see

608
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: him standing there talking to Lucy, takes her arm, her

609
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: right arm, hits two fingers, the index finger and the forefinger,

610
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: spanks her off the wrist with two fingers and then

611
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: she starts falling in the floor, crying and screaming. This

612
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 1: this the indignity of the two fingers spiked on the wrist. Okay,

613
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: so he was right and Lucy was exaggerating. Can you

614
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: imagine that? And they were about this age. They were

615
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: about five five years old, or maybe a little bit younger.

616
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: But you know, Ashley, I was up till one o'clock

617
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,720
Speaker 1: in the morning trying to figure out how to rewind

618
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: the video games and go by on David because if

619
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: he if he had speaking that child the way she said,

620
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: he would have been out on the sidewalk with a

621
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: tin cup in his hand, begging for ten cents for

622
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. Good lut brother. But I don't

623
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: know under understand why when the child says she did

624
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: this to me and he's got bruises, what what? Why

625
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 1: was she still allowed in the I don't understand that, Ashley,

626
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: and I'm only laughing because I know you're twins. And

627
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: the funny thing to me as kids will really act

628
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: out like that when their feelings have gotten hurt. And

629
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 1: so she wasn't physically hurt, but it hurt her feelings.

630
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: Probably she got in trouble with dad. Having said that,

631
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: there's the difference bruises. So let's talk about for instance,

632
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia, you can use corporal punishment,

633
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: so a parent can spank their child. There's no law

634
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: against it. Here's what I see everything. All the studies

635
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: say it gets you nowhere, right. I don't agree with that.

636
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: Where using time out, I felt like I was in

637
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: time out because I had to guard the door for

638
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, right. So, but my point in that is

639
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: that there is a difference when you leave marks or bruises,

640
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: and you cannot do that. That's called child abuse. So

641
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: for a child to say she hurts me It's one thing.

642
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: When you've got repeated bruises on a child, that's a

643
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 1: completely different story. It takes a great deal of force

644
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: and intentional force to cause many types of bruises. And

645
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: so I will say this two words for you. System failed.

646
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: The system failed this child for there to be multiple reports,

647
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: multiple bruises, them arguing about druisy action. Who cares they

648
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: failed this child? Did? Karen Smith, forensics expert, When a

649
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: child turns out with bruises and says, Emily is main

650
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: to me, how do you verify it? What do you do? Karen?

651
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: The first thing that you do is police and child

652
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 1: protective services are supposed to work in conjunction with one another.

653
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: You look at the child, You take off their shirt,

654
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: you know you you pull down their pants if you

655
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: have to, and you look at where these bruises are located.

656
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: Are they old? Are they knew? If you have a

657
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: combination of those, you can bet that that child has

658
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: been going through abuse for some time. And like you said,

659
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: this system failed this child. He should have been removed

660
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: from that household. The other child likely should have been

661
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: removed from that household until they found out what was

662
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: going on, who was doing the abuse, how long it

663
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: had been going on, what they were using, if there

664
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: were patterns to the bruises, where they're hand marks, or

665
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: was it an object that they were using. These are

666
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: all questions that should have been answered long before Lucas

667
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: Hernandez disappeared. Take a listen to the latest development. This

668
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: is Kansas Deputy Police Chief Gavin Sealer. This case is

669
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: now considered criminal investigation. Investigators have arrested a twenty six

670
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: year old female on two counts of child and endangered

671
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: charges are related to new information gathered during this investigation.

672
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: Officers and investigators have been working on this case NonStop

673
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: since six fifteen Saturday evening. We have collected information through

674
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: countless interviews, follow ups on leads, and examining evidence. This evidence.

675
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: I'm sorry this incident has touched many in our community.

676
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: I know that many. There are many more questions as

677
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: a result of this are This continues to be a

678
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: criminal investigation and we cannot go into further details. The

679
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: search for Lecas Lucas is ongoing and we are still

680
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: asking public for assistance. We continue to provide every resource

681
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: that we have available to find Lucas. This is our priority.

682
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: If you have any information on where his whereabouts, please

683
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: call This tip line number is three one six three

684
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: eight three four six six one UM as a result

685
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 1: of this investigation too, we would also like to thank

686
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: either those other agencies that have been assisting us over

687
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: the past few days. Those are the FBI, KPI, the

688
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: District Attorney's office and it says find a county Sheriff's office.

689
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: So I love that at this point, yes, is that

690
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: the step mother? That is the stepmother Emily Glass. It

691
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: is twenty six year old f the endangering the child?

692
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: Would that be endangering Lucas? That there are two children

693
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: in banter us for concis separate to separate Cancifer. But

694
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 1: one of the Lucas one of those children is your locus. Yes,

695
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: we know where the child is. Involve me one her

696
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: child is that her her daughter? Ah? I would going

697
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: to them? Do you consider at this point that this

698
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: disappearance is likely going to be alumicide this point in time,

699
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: we hope not. We hope that we are able to

700
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: find Locas and that he is alive. And now for

701
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: are you guys searching that? Uh? This U investigation will

702
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: can team on as far as specific locations or sparious

703
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: locations of old I won't make any specific locations. Can

704
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: you elaborate on the nature of endangering the child, like

705
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: was that leaving a child alone or the nature of it?

706
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: I won't get into the investigation charges. When was she arrested?

707
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: Choose arresting book set? Do you one more question? What information?

708
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: And I guess you got to get that afformation for investigation.

709
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: This has been a result of as I mentioned, we

710
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: started a six fifteen on this three days ago party

711
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: still and uh so as a result of all the

712
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: interviews and throughout the investigation stuff and talking with people,

713
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: evidence that was collected and things as when we terminated

714
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: into investations, have you guys been able to um verify

715
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: her account of what happened in terms of her being

716
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: the last person to see him again, that's all part

717
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: of the investigation. I don't want to get into details

718
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: of it, okay, and so I will discuss that part

719
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: of it. Is possible there could be more charges. There

720
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: is possibility of more charges. Correct to Chuck Robert's Crime

721
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter Chuck, what led to her arrest? Why? Well,

722
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: the day before Lucas disappeared, she took her daughter, her

723
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: one year old daughter, to Olive Garden and left Lucas

724
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: at home, and she later admitted and she later admitted

725
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: to her step to her her her boyfriend Jonathan, that

726
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: she paused to smoke a couple of bowls of marijuana

727
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: before she went to Olive Garden. She claimed that she

728
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,959
Speaker 1: left Lucas home because he'd been sick and she didn't

729
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: want to wake him up, and that raised, you know, suspicions,

730
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: and police arrested her for child engagement two counts, one

731
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: for Lucas and one presumably for her own one year

732
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: old daughter. Wow, Okay, what we know right now is

733
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 1: that this stepmother, as she calls herself, Emily Glass has

734
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: redusted a bond reduction, a bond reduction Kim Martin missing

735
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: Pieces network. Uh, what do we do now right now?

736
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: Quite honestly, in my opinion, we have to find Lucas.

737
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 1: Um sure that it would likely be a recovery effort

738
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 1: at this point, sadly, but I don't think the city

739
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: can make a charge or that anyone is going to

740
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 1: pay for doing this until we find Lucas and the

741
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: area out there. You know, I'm not from Kansas, but

742
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: it is vast, it's rural, and it's a lot of

743
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: private property. So that's why we really need private landowners

744
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: to go search. You know, we've got teams out there

745
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: behind the scenes that people don't know about searching. Um,

746
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: we have Lucas Warriors searching. And it's just a lot

747
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: of land to cover. When you say a recovery, what

748
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: do you mean by that? Seems to me that all

749
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: indications at this point are that. Sadly, it kills me

750
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: to say this. Um that Lucas is not is not

751
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: a lot. I've been studying the affidavit that has been released.

752
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 1: You all know that the so called stepmother, Emily Glass,

753
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: reports five year old Lucas missing, saying that she was

754
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: taking a napp now. According to this probably cause affidavit,

755
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: she also tells police the day before she made the report,

756
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: she smoked marijuana. She had been cleaning the family home.

757
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: It's located there near Lincoln and Edgemore, and that she

758
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: went into the garage and smoked a few bold her words,

759
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: not mine, of marijuana. That she got hungry, and she

760
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: and her one year old daughter, only identified as m

761
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: H drove to Olive Garden as Chuck Roberts told us

762
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: for dinner, leaving Lucas behind. There's no other visual on

763
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: Lucas that day, to my understanding, I don't know how

764
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: long he had really been missing. Well, well, what now,

765
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 1: Kim the land word of their rental home. Um, I

766
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: saw Lucas peeking through the window at five pm that

767
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: day on the day that she went to Olive Garden. Okay,

768
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: got that, guy. I'm I'm glad you told me that,

769
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 1: because it's another piece of the puzzle. I was referring

770
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: to the day that he actually went missing. But that

771
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: helps me. That helps me create a timeline. Do you

772
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: know of a visual of the day that he is

773
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: claimed to have gone missing? None? The last visual is

774
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: at Okay, so she's at home alone after a couple

775
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: of balls of marijuana, going to Olive Garden with her daughter,

776
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: leaving him there at thirty eight pounds, and the landlord

777
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: season at five thirty pm peeking out the window. I

778
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: don't know if the stepmother was there or not. This

779
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 1: court document says the step mom consented to a search

780
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: of her phone, where police found text on Facebook mess

781
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: endured between her and her I guess you say husband,

782
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: um Jonathan Hernandez. Police say the messages stated Glass was

783
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: going to smoke a couple of bowls in marijuana and

784
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: go to Olive Garden using a gift card he had

785
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 1: sent her. It goes on to say she made two

786
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,800
Speaker 1: phone calls FIB six in the afternoon around four thirty

787
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: and five forty. The phone calls were made from the

788
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: area of Central and Rock, near where all of Garden is.

789
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Part of that document was redacted and we couldn't see everything.

790
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: Do we have any reason, Kim Martin to believe the

791
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 1: boy made it through the night? Mm hmm. In my opinion,

792
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 1: what do you think happened? Kim, Ah, This is difficult

793
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: to say. This is just my opinion from putting, you know,

794
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: things together. Um, I would guess that Emily came home,

795
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: Lucas made some comment about the landlord, and you know,

796
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: she had just gone through custody hearings and everything and

797
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: lost additional custody of her older children, visitation and just

798
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: in the move and she's the primary caregiver. I hate

799
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: to say she snapped, but I think she did. I

800
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: think she laughed out at him, and he had been

801
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: sick for two or three weeks, and I think it

802
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: killed me guys, we are looking for Lucas Hernandez with me,

803
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: Kim Martin, Missing Pieces Network, Karen Smith for Forensics expert,

804
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, juvenile judge, Dr Chloe Michael Carmichael, New York psychologist,

805
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: and Chuck Roberts investigative reporter. The tip line three one six,

806
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: two six seven to one on one or three one six,

807
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: two six eight four four zero seven. Also at this time,

808
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: I want to remind you that our longtime friend and colleague,

809
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan needs us. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics

810
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 1: and longtime Crime Online contributor, entire home and all of

811
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: his possessions out by tornadoes in Alabama. Please go to

812
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: crime online dot com read his story. A go fummy

813
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: page has been created for him, and if you can,

814
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: please give. No amount is too small. He is our

815
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: friend and he needs us now. Nancy Grace Crime Stories

816
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend