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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number two hundred

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Speaker 1: and seventy eight, and today we are catching up on

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Speaker 1: all the latest going on with public lands in North

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Speaker 1: America with land TONI of back Country Hunters and Anglers.

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by on X, and today on the show,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by land Tawny, the CEO of back Country

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Speaker 1: Hunters and Anglers, and my goal today's episode was to

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Speaker 1: get everyone and update on where's things stand with public

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Speaker 1: lands right now. Now. If you've been following this podcast

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Speaker 1: or myself for a great deal of other folks in

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Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing community over the past few years,

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Speaker 1: you are likely very well aware. But there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot going on with public lands. There's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of controversy, a lot of worry about the future of

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Speaker 1: these places. Uh, some of you probably remember. Let's go

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Speaker 1: back to two thousand sixteen, for example, with the takeover

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Speaker 1: of the Mail Hour Refuge and armed takeover in which

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Speaker 1: a bunch of folks took over this piece of public

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Speaker 1: land and started making a bunch of demands, including that

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Speaker 1: they wanted public lands given to states or private owners.

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Speaker 1: You might have heard about this larger issue that this

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Speaker 1: was a part of, called the land transfer movement, which

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Speaker 1: was being pushed by a certain group of politicians and

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Speaker 1: lobbyists trying to get all of our federal public lands,

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Speaker 1: national forests and BLM ground and wilderness areas and things

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Speaker 1: like this. They wanted that given away or transferred away

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Speaker 1: or sold off. You might have heard about this big

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Speaker 1: debate over national monuments UM and what led to eventually

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Speaker 1: to national minings being significantly slashed UM. You might remember

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Speaker 1: Representative Jason Shavitz proposing a bill back in Gosh I

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Speaker 1: think it was early two thousand seventeen. He proposed this

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Speaker 1: a bill to sell more than three million acres of

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Speaker 1: land that you and me could previously hunt or fish

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Speaker 1: or camp or hike on. And then this huge pushback

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Speaker 1: that we as a hunting and fishing an outdoor community

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Speaker 1: kind of kind of put back on it. All. This

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Speaker 1: has been going on over the past few years. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about it quite a bit on the podcast I've

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Speaker 1: talked about a whole lot on my social media platforms,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's an issue that has been um of

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Speaker 1: great interest to me personally because of you know, how

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Speaker 1: special public lands have been to me and my family,

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Speaker 1: into to so many other people we know, but also

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Speaker 1: because of because of the really positive example that I

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Speaker 1: think that this battle of sorts has shown, um as

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Speaker 1: far as how we as a community can stand up. UM.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just think it was it was incredible

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Speaker 1: to see the number of people in the hunting and

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Speaker 1: isshing world get informed and then engage in this issue

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we have wild in public places

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Speaker 1: left for all of us to enjoy across the whole country.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I get really, I get really pumped

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Speaker 1: about this. But this this idea of public land, this

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Speaker 1: land that's open to all of us, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: just how can you not get fired up about that?

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Speaker 1: You know, land access is getting harder every year, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking private land access for hunting in particular,

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Speaker 1: which is probably most relevant to you and me maybe

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Speaker 1: as deer hunters, um. And because of that, more and

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Speaker 1: more hunters are turning to public land, trying it out

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Speaker 1: and realizing that, Hey, there are some pretty awesome opportunities.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I, for example, I've been doing this now

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Speaker 1: for a number of years, and this year I'm planning

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Speaker 1: either two or three out of state hunts and it's

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Speaker 1: all going to be on public land. And I guarantee

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Speaker 1: it's all gonna be a whole lot of fun. And

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Speaker 1: you guys are gonna hear all about it. There are

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Speaker 1: so many great things that we can do on public land.

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Speaker 1: Not to mention, not to mention, these are places that

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Speaker 1: you just don't have to just hunt, but you can

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Speaker 1: go hike, you can fish, you can camp, you can kayak,

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Speaker 1: you can forage, you can climb, you can just walk

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Speaker 1: around and explore. I mean, this public idea, this this

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Speaker 1: democratization of food and resources and sceniory space solitude. I

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Speaker 1: just don't think there's anything more American. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that over the last hundred years plus a hundred plus years,

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Speaker 1: really we've been able to develop this system of places

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Speaker 1: that are protected for for us to use now but

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Speaker 1: also for future generations. And then the fact that's still

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Speaker 1: today hundreds of years after Theater, or not hundreds, but

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty years or so after Theodore Roosevelt and

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Speaker 1: these folks that stood up originally the fact that still

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Speaker 1: now here in two thousand nineteen, there are a bunch

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Speaker 1: of guys and gals that are still rallying to the

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Speaker 1: defense of that idea that is that is badass and

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Speaker 1: it gets me very excited and it makes me very proud.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I'm excited about this episode and why

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Speaker 1: I wanted Land to join me, to help me recap

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Speaker 1: what's been going on over these past couple of eventful years.

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Speaker 1: Where does things stand right now, and what does the

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Speaker 1: future of public lands look like? And then finally, how

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Speaker 1: can we all be involved in it and make sure

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Speaker 1: it's a positive one. That is what we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about in Land Tawny. He likes to say that

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Speaker 1: the public land revolution is alive, and I one percent

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Speaker 1: agree with that, and I'm very proud that so many

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Speaker 1: members of this community, this Wired to Hunt family, are

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Speaker 1: part of that. So with all that said, I think

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Speaker 1: we should just dive into our conversation with Land Tawny.

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Speaker 1: Alright with me back on the show, is Land Tawny.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Land, Okay, it's so good to be back. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I always appreciate taking the time to do uh, to

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Speaker 1: do this, and and in particular this week because right now,

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Speaker 1: as this podcast is going live, the two thousand nineteen

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Speaker 1: Back Country Hunters and Anglers Rendezvous will be kicking off

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Speaker 1: in Boise, Idaho, And uh, I'm sure right now as

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Speaker 1: we're talking, which is a week before that, you are crazy,

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Speaker 1: crazy busy. So so thanks for carving out the time

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Speaker 1: and having this conversation. It's organized chaos over here, but

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Speaker 1: we're getting it done and happy to get on the

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Speaker 1: phone with your part. I imagine it's got to be

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Speaker 1: pretty wild. So so this is what I what I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering about right off the right off the gate go

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Speaker 1: because as I said, this is gonna be going live

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Speaker 1: on Thursday, which is I think the first day of

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Speaker 1: the Rendezvous, and in a day or two from that point,

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Speaker 1: you will be standing on the big stage, probably for

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Speaker 1: Storytelling Night, addressing a crowd of likely thousands of people,

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Speaker 1: telling them about the state of b h A and

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Speaker 1: the state of public lands across the country. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just kind of wondering, what is that big take home

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Speaker 1: message or that big rallying cry gonna be for everyone

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Speaker 1: that week during the event. What's your message. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think the first part of that, it's just the

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Speaker 1: amazing growth that we continue to enjoy over here at

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Speaker 1: dh a UM. You know, we'll congratulate everybody in that room.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had a goal of getting to thirty

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Speaker 1: thousand members last year back in November of last year.

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Speaker 1: We're at twenty five, and we really leaned on our

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Speaker 1: chapter leaders as well as members to kind of get

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Speaker 1: out spread the word and lo and behold, we met

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Speaker 1: our membership goal of thirty thousand. Today we're sitting at

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Speaker 1: thirty six thousand. So that's super exciting the growth at

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Speaker 1: that point. You know, I don't want to I'm knocking

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Speaker 1: on wood right now, but we've got seven chapters that

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Speaker 1: will be new chapters that will be established. So we'll

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Speaker 1: be welcoming in uh, Kansas, Oklahoma, Illinois, Indiana, West Virginia,

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Speaker 1: West Virginia because me New Jersey UM Tennessee is breaking

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Speaker 1: away from the Southeast chapter, and then Yukon up in Canada,

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Speaker 1: and so that will bring us to forty five state

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Speaker 1: based chapters here in the lower forty eight and then

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Speaker 1: three be up in Canada, and so you know, we're

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Speaker 1: getting close to total coverage and that's super exciting. So

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Speaker 1: like the gross piece, but I think like the big

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Speaker 1: one that I'll be talking about, Mark is really reveling

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Speaker 1: in this wind that we just had on this public

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Speaker 1: lands package. And you know, this was a bill that

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Speaker 1: contained the land of Water Conservation Fund, also contained a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other public land pieces and you know that

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Speaker 1: vote that happened there it was in the Senate and

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Speaker 1: then three sixty three sixty two in the House, both

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Speaker 1: kind of veto proof votes, and then the President sent

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Speaker 1: it into law. And you know, you don't get those

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Speaker 1: kind of votes anywhere out in d c Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of parsonship that's going on. People seem

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Speaker 1: to be on one side of the other and fighting

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Speaker 1: all the time. And this, you know, this bill that

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Speaker 1: had not only land water Conservation Fund stuff in it,

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Speaker 1: but a ton of other things I get passed overwhelmingly.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's something to like revel in and

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Speaker 1: really celebrate and then take that energy, you know into

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Speaker 1: kind of our work is we go and for the

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Speaker 1: rest of the year. So that's gonna be the big message,

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Speaker 1: I think, is you know, welcoming the family that's you

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Speaker 1: have something from every single state like we did last year. Um,

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Speaker 1: and then welcome to those new chapters celebrating the growth

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Speaker 1: and celebrating the big one that we just had them

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Speaker 1: about a month ago. Yeah, and that's that's pretty incredible

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Speaker 1: that the John Dingle Junior Conservation Management and Recreation Act,

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Speaker 1: I think is is the full name of this bill

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. It is a big one. And and

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Speaker 1: you know, as as I looked at that, as you

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Speaker 1: just said, a pretty resounding vote there that at least

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Speaker 1: when I look at it, I see is that being

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Speaker 1: proof positive of the impact that we as a community

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Speaker 1: and b h A and all the other hunters and

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Speaker 1: anglers and and other folks that enjoyed the outdoors. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's like this big billboard across, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the highway across the country saying, hey, we can

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Speaker 1: make a difference. Like over the last two or three

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Speaker 1: or four years, there's been this really concerted effort across

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Speaker 1: the country to to make a stand for public lands.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like this is like the the sign

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Speaker 1: that like they were hearing us, like we really influence people.

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Speaker 1: Is that how you see this too? Is this like

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Speaker 1: an affirmation of all the work that we've all been

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Speaker 1: doing absolutely. You know, I think it's like the revolution

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Speaker 1: is live, right and we're witnessing it. And I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, it's first started back you know, when

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Speaker 1: Schape has tried to to really you know, sell two

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Speaker 1: million acres of public land and then that kind of

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Speaker 1: cry that happened on social media and all across the country.

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Speaker 1: I mean that I think that was the first piece

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Speaker 1: that I was like, oh man, this thing is really

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Speaker 1: starting to pick up some steam. Um. And then the

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Speaker 1: idea that was like playing defense, and defense is always

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Speaker 1: when you're losing something, I think there's always more of

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Speaker 1: a call to action. You know, people are more fired

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Speaker 1: up about losing um something that that they'll never get back.

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Speaker 1: What I love about, you know, where we were with

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Speaker 1: this public lands package is that that's something that was

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Speaker 1: proactive and people still you know, they made phone calls,

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Speaker 1: they showed up at meetings, they sent emails, and so

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Speaker 1: they're really feeling empowered right now. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right that there's been this like awakening um

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Speaker 1: I think around public lands and that you know that

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Speaker 1: really we don't have these public lands by accident, and

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Speaker 1: they're not going to be carried forward by accident either.

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Speaker 1: And so when you get a big win like this,

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Speaker 1: like that's a notch on the belt, and I think

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to use that momentum as we

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Speaker 1: go forward. But yeah, I think it's you know, we're

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Speaker 1: witnessing a public lands kind of revolution, and you know

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Speaker 1: that an indication of the validation of that revolution. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kind of it kind of brings back echoes of

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Speaker 1: and tell me if you do disagree with this at all,

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Speaker 1: but it kind of reminds me of of what happened

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Speaker 1: in like the late fifties and early sixties when there

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Speaker 1: was this big fight within the public land sphere over

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Speaker 1: Dinosaur National Monument. They're gonna put a big dam in

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Speaker 1: there and it would have flooded these beautiful canyons out

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Speaker 1: there on the board of Utah and Colorado. And there's

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Speaker 1: a huge uprising of folks kind of across the conservation

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Speaker 1: community saying, hey, we are not okay with this incredible

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Speaker 1: place that was recently somewhat recently protected being flooded and

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Speaker 1: damaged for for development. And we ended up winning that battle.

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Speaker 1: The damn was pulled out of the development plan, and

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Speaker 1: then the conservation community took that momentum, so they're playing defense.

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Speaker 1: They had this momentum and they took it, and they

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Speaker 1: moved forward and actually got the Wilderness Act past a

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Speaker 1: handful of years later. Um. And then after that was

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Speaker 1: all sorts of great public plan and constant relations conservation

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Speaker 1: related things happening in the sixties and seventies. Do you

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Speaker 1: feel like we might be kind of in a similar

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Speaker 1: wave of momentum that we could push forward with that

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Speaker 1: kind of positive difference in the future. Yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: say absolutely, And I think it's a it's a great

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Speaker 1: kind of comparison and that, you know, I mean if

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Speaker 1: people are I think a lot of people have thought

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Speaker 1: their voice didn't count anymore in this country. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you think about big business, you think about the lobbyists,

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Speaker 1: you think, you know, man, I'm just one person. How

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Speaker 1: can I make a difference? And I think again, starting

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Speaker 1: back with kind of shape, it's kind of pushed back.

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Speaker 1: And then now this positive peace, like the squeaky wheel

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Speaker 1: still gets the grease in this country, and people are

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Speaker 1: realizing that their voice does count. And yes, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of deals that are done in the back rooms

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Speaker 1: out in d C. And there's a lot of influence

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Speaker 1: from lobbyists and and in big business, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we the people ultimately are the ones making the votes.

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Speaker 1: And I think when people start to speak up and

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Speaker 1: ask for things, even demand them, which I would say

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Speaker 1: it happened with Land and Water Conservation Fund once it's sunset,

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Speaker 1: it as the people demanded that that we make sure

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Speaker 1: we permently authorize that program. That politicians listen, you know,

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Speaker 1: ultimately at the end of the day, they want to

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Speaker 1: be elected again. And when the people you know are

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Speaker 1: just banging at their door, um, you know they listen

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Speaker 1: and and and while they do have those other influences,

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Speaker 1: you know, they they want to be voted on in

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Speaker 1: those big businesses and and lobbyists like they only got

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Speaker 1: one vote too. So, um, I'm pretty excited about it.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like this empowerment kind of nature of

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Speaker 1: what's going on right now. And in thinking about how

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Speaker 1: we take the momentum from you know that these votes

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Speaker 1: that we just had in this public lands package, you

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Speaker 1: know two other things. So it's exciting times I think

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Speaker 1: to be limited. Yeah, So, so I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the the Dingle Conservation Act in a little bit

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Speaker 1: more detail. But before that, I guess I think we

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Speaker 1: got a little caught up on the defense side. That

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Speaker 1: you talked about back with the Chief. That's bill that

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Speaker 1: came out h R. Six twenty two, and and everything

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Speaker 1: that happened back in I think that would have been

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Speaker 1: two thousands, six seventeen. I think it was January two

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Speaker 1: seventeen maybe that happened. Um. And like you said, that

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Speaker 1: was kind of like an Aha moment, not just for

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Speaker 1: us probably but probably for a lot of other folks

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Speaker 1: within the government kind of seeing what kind of momentum

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Speaker 1: was there. Um. And since that point, I remember having

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Speaker 1: a conversation with Randy Newburg about this that that was

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Speaker 1: like a very overt bill saying like, hey, we want

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Speaker 1: to sell this land. And then there was a handful

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Speaker 1: of other things around the time where they're talking about

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Speaker 1: selling or transferring public land ends and and of course

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Speaker 1: you guys and and this whole community kind of stood

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Speaker 1: up and said, no, we are not okay with a

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Speaker 1: transfer or sale of land. Um. It seems like since

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Speaker 1: that point there hasn't been as much There haven't been

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Speaker 1: as many proposals like that that overtly call for that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. But now there seems to be this

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Speaker 1: death by a thousand cut strategy, like little stabs here

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Speaker 1: and they're taking taking a chunk out of a specific

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Speaker 1: regulation or specific place or something like that. Is that

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Speaker 1: kind of where you see things right now as far

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Speaker 1: as the evolution of what was this land transfer movement

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Speaker 1: and and I don't know, maybe now it's like a

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Speaker 1: land chip away at it movement. Um. Is that an

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Speaker 1: accurate way to describe it. I think that's an accurate

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Speaker 1: way to describe it at a federal level, UM. But

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Speaker 1: I think at a state level there is still like this.

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Speaker 1: I think this movement of transfer or cell of public

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Speaker 1: lands is still alive. And well, um there is a

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Speaker 1: uh will that management area right now in Missouri that

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Speaker 1: the legislature is trying to put up on a chopping block.

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Speaker 1: I think it's I might not get this right, but

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Speaker 1: I thinks like nine thousand acres um that was just

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Speaker 1: established recently, as you know, as this wildlife management area

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Speaker 1: where people can go hunt and fish, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the legislature is trying to take that ability away. Um.

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Speaker 1: There's no net gain of public lands bills that are

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Speaker 1: happening all across the West and the mid West. Um.

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Speaker 1: And and so I think that that kind of sell

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Speaker 1: and transfer movement is alive and wealth to stay level.

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Speaker 1: But at the federal level, I think you're exactly right,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's it's done. And and so that's

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Speaker 1: again because the people spoke up and they were loud,

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Speaker 1: and I think made an example in particular, you know,

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Speaker 1: out of Mr Schafitz, and you know that picture that

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Speaker 1: he had of himself and that uh, that dog and

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Speaker 1: he's wearing all samos um. That was an indo. You

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Speaker 1: know that he was responding to the people. And so

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Speaker 1: I think his colleagues recognize that. And I still think

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Speaker 1: you know, um Centator Mike Lee in particular, he gave

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Speaker 1: a speech this last summer to uh kind of a

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Speaker 1: very conservative of pro transferred crowd and talked about how,

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Speaker 1: you know that maybe right now the atmosphere wasn't there

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Speaker 1: to actually get something done, but he said that he

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Speaker 1: was in this for the long, long term and the

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Speaker 1: long term fight, and then he was committed to making

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Speaker 1: sure that we you know, transferred earners sold those public lands.

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Speaker 1: And so I think it's always going to be underneath

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Speaker 1: the surface mark. But right now at a federal level,

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Speaker 1: I think we've pushed back, UM, and I think again

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Speaker 1: that's the people that have done that. The politicians have

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Speaker 1: listened at a state level, they haven't quite heard that

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Speaker 1: kind of Vietnam like like push back and disdain for

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Speaker 1: those ideas as quite as much as they could, especially

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Speaker 1: in you know, just in Iowa, and they had a

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Speaker 1: no net game kind of bill there and that's where

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Speaker 1: we have a brand new chapter there. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we were able to mobilize people. And that's a pretty

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Speaker 1: small chapter they started I think earlier this year like

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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty members and now they already have

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Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty. But they were able to push back.

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Speaker 1: But again, like that's happening at a state levels, Well,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it to that UM at all at

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Speaker 1: a state level. And then I also say it's always

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Speaker 1: the surface. Yeah, um so, so I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about that Iowa group too, because that was a pretty

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Speaker 1: great thing, a pretty neat example of these new chapters

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Speaker 1: jumping up in different parts of the country than you

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Speaker 1: typically think of when it comes to public lands and

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Speaker 1: and right away making an impact. I saw an article

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Speaker 1: of a few weeks ago showing that hundreds of folks

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Speaker 1: showed up at a committee meeting about this bill, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think that probably had ever happened about a

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Speaker 1: public land bill in Iowa around this type of issue.

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Speaker 1: And it sounded like folks were pretty taken aback by it.

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Speaker 1: And it sounds like it got made some impact in

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Speaker 1: the House. It sounds like a center version of the

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Speaker 1: bill maybe was still pushed forward. But that was cool

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Speaker 1: to see. But back to the back to the bigger

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Speaker 1: picture stuff. Yeah, given like the fact that there is

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Speaker 1: this kind of underneath the surface, still a desire to

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Speaker 1: work towards sale or trans public land in the long run,

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Speaker 1: but in the short term, they're now taking this, you know,

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Speaker 1: get a little bit here, a little bit there. Um,

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Speaker 1: what kind of stuff should we be keeping an eye

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Speaker 1: out for or are there any specific proposals or bills

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Speaker 1: out there right now that are that are particularly dangerous

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Speaker 1: Because I feel like when we were talking about sales

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Speaker 1: and transfers, like those headlines got attention, you know, that

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Speaker 1: got Joe Rogan, and that got all these other people

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Speaker 1: to like jump on Instagram and say something about it.

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Speaker 1: But it seems like these other ones can fly under

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Speaker 1: the radar much more easily. Um, how do we keep

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Speaker 1: that from happening? How do we keep track of the

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Speaker 1: smaller things that add up to big things. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a great question. I think that you know, nothing is

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Speaker 1: going to be as sexy as like, you know that

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Speaker 1: kind of public Land's kind of sail out. And when

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Speaker 1: I say that, it's just like, that's what I mean,

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Speaker 1: You're totally right. You know, when Joe Rogan picked this up,

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the only times he's used

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Speaker 1: as platform for advocacy. Um, And there was a you know,

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Speaker 1: immediate threat, and you know, it was something that was

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Speaker 1: very tangible and people can understand, and they jumped all

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Speaker 1: over it, and so, um, that's pretty sexy to me

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Speaker 1: as far as like organizing the world is very simple. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think some of these death by a thousand cuts pieces,

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Speaker 1: they're not as sexy at all. I mean, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, one thing that is super important is to

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Speaker 1: watch the budget. And you know, right now the Congress

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Speaker 1: is working on a budget and and figuring out kind

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Speaker 1: of how they appropriate funds and then you know, like

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Speaker 1: how they're going to keep the government open as well

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Speaker 1: as kind of fund our agencies at a for service level,

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Speaker 1: A Bureau Plant Management level, at a U S Special

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Speaker 1: Life Service level. And you know, the budget that the

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Speaker 1: President came up with this year had really drastic cuts

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Speaker 1: to all three of those agencies UM, some in the upwards.

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Speaker 1: And and so at that point, you know, that's that

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Speaker 1: death by a thousand customer you're talking about, that really

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Speaker 1: is starving these agencies of the food that they need.

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Speaker 1: And so ultimately, you know, they can't do their jobs,

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Speaker 1: they can't keep roads open, they can't do while I've

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Speaker 1: had it, that improvement projects UM, and and that makes

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Speaker 1: the body of these agencies look sick and then feeds

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Speaker 1: into this idea of sale um. But budgets aren't that sexy.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just playing and simple. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: just not something that people necessarily got wi around. And

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Speaker 1: so I think our job is to make you know,

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Speaker 1: make that simple. I think you know, as in you

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Speaker 1: as a communicator, to make that stuff simple. And then

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Speaker 1: when we have leverage points where we have action, is

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Speaker 1: to to really be able to reach out to people

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Speaker 1: and engage them. And again, I don't think we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get you know, necessarily the the Vietnam kind of pushback

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Speaker 1: that we've got with shape its um. But I think

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Speaker 1: it's a place for us to you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there's much more hyper awareness around public lands and other

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Speaker 1: manage now than there ever has been, at least in

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Speaker 1: my career, and and so I think let's use that

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Speaker 1: as to our advantage and work on things. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think this this idea of energy domination right now

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00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: in this country that has you know, kind of hurt

433
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: our stage grounds conservation implementation plans, is putting oil and

434
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: gas you know, development in the middle of you know,

435
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: the longest mule deer migratory corridor in the country, which

436
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: isn't isn't uh whelming. Like those are the kind of

437
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 1: things that I think we need to pay attention to

438
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: and really be contact in our lective officials about as

439
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,360
Speaker 1: well as administrative officials about and leting them know how

440
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: we feel. And so to me, again, that's b achance

441
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: job is to really make those things as simple as

442
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: possible and then make the you know, the connection to

443
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: these people that make decisions as easy as possible as well.

444
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: So that's I think, you know again, like I it's

445
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: how do we make it, you know, so people get

446
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: more engaged. I think that's just education in a lot

447
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: of ways. Um. You know, I think we're there's a

448
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: lot of positive stuff that I can talk about that

449
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna be working on, which I'm glad that not

450
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: just playing defense, but people need to stay visual one

451
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, And I feel like with all these

452
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: little things like that, Um, not only is it easy

453
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: to not even find out a out of, but I

454
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: also worry, like on my end of it, as someone

455
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: who's like trying to spread the word about things and

456
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: none yours and you're trying to spread the word about things. Um.

457
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: There's this idea of I think I think people refer

458
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: to as like issue fatigue or something along those lines, um,

459
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: where like if if you keep honking the horn or

460
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: or yelling into the megaphone saying danger, danger, or whatever,

461
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: the more and more you say that, the more and

462
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: more you do that, the more people eventually start to

463
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: tune it out and just there's too much. They can't

464
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,719
Speaker 1: they can't send an email for every single issue. UM.

465
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 1: So this is like one of the things I internally

466
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: struggle with, like, how do I pick and choose the

467
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: things that we really need to get folks motivated to

468
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: act on? How do you how do you think about that.

469
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: How is bh A thinking about that, um, because it's

470
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: probably something we all need to be kind of thinking about,

471
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: right it is. I think, you know the way we

472
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: try to couch it again, like these leverage points. You know,

473
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: what is the you know in the process, what is

474
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: the decision making that's going on? And so you know,

475
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: let's take Land Water Conservation Fund. You know, there was

476
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: a lot of education effort that happened around that fund.

477
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean it was like the best kept secret for

478
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: a while in the United States, like you know, the

479
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: number one access to that nobody knew about. And so

480
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: there was a ton of education that got put into

481
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: that piece. And so you're you know, creating reports, you're

482
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: showing examples, um of real places that people can go

483
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: and experience. And so then by the time that thing

484
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: sunset last fall, people knew much more about the Land

485
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: and Water Conservation Fund, and so when they find out

486
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: that this thing, you know, is going away, that's when

487
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: that pushed back really was was um, I think, uh,

488
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: pretty harsh and and that wouldn't happen I think without

489
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: that education. And so I think there's like stages to

490
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: all these things. And so I think the education piece

491
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: in particular is important. Then it's like not going I

492
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: think you're totally right with like an issue fatigue. It says,

493
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: let's not you know, say, if bill gets introduced, then

494
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: it's going to go through a committee, then it's the

495
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: North center subcommittee, then it goes into a committee, and

496
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: then now it's going to be on the House floor

497
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: center floor, like if you took action, if you ask

498
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: people to take action every single one of those like

499
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: kind of points. I think that's to make it that

500
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: issue fatigue. So it's like trying to figure out like

501
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: when the most important things are and I would say,

502
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: you know that would be in an ultimate committee meeting

503
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: and then um, when it's on the floor either of

504
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: the Senate of the House. So trying to pick and shoes,

505
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 1: so education and then picking and choose kind of when

506
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: those leverage points are and is that can I tell

507
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: you like a perfect playbook for that? You know? You know,

508
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: I think there's sometimes you know, there's bills that are

509
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: introduced that are basically just ideas and they're floated as balloons,

510
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: you know, trying to figure out if that, you know,

511
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: if there's an opportunity to move them forward. Is that

512
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: you know, things that we should be spending time on.

513
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: You know, it just kind of depends on what that

514
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: bill is. And so um, that's again that's why John

515
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: Gale gets paid the big cash over here at v

516
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: h A or whatever. Maybe not the big cast that

517
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: some cast um to uh to really think about like

518
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: that leverage point. And we have you know, somebod out

519
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: in DC. Now we've got partners that we can talk

520
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: to about because if you do that too much again,

521
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 1: people stopped responding. And that's the last thing we want,

522
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: especially right now when they're feeling that juice so much

523
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: that they're voice both count So speaking of their voice

524
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: counting and speaking of LBCF, let's let's revel a little

525
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: bit in that we we briefly mentioned that it was

526
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: this big win and improved positive of the fact that

527
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: we could all make a difference. But um, but for

528
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: those who aren't aware of what that was all about,

529
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: can you give us like the thirty second cliff notes

530
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: on what we achieved with the passing of this bill, um,

531
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: and and probably especially with l WCS as you mentioned

532
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: that as well. Sure, so for those who don't know

533
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: what the Land of Water Conservation Fund is It was

534
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: established in than king sixty four when oil and gas

535
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: development was starting to increase in the Gulf of Mexico.

536
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: And the thought then of Congress was, if we're doing

537
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: you know this this re furs extraction on one resource

538
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: in the Gulf, we should be you know, giving back

539
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: to another. And and so that bill passed, I think

540
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: the Senate one originally. So it's huge bipartisan support basically

541
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: taking excise taxes off of or excuse me, royalties off

542
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: of oil and gas development and putting that that back

543
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: into conservation and access state side. And so I think

544
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: of the counties in the United States have utilized this money.

545
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: And that's all the way from you know, baseball fields

546
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: and swimming pools and rural America to UH parks to

547
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: fishing access sites to big kind of conservations, um easement um,

548
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: to you know, additions to our public lands of state.

549
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: And so this this fund has again been used in

550
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four. It's sunset last September September, and which

551
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: meant that you know, we were going to have the

552
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: ability to to really send these funds out stateside anymore.

553
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: And and so now that it has been passed, it's

554
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: permanently authorized and so don't have to worry about this

555
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: thing sunsetting anymore. What that legislation did not do literally

556
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: provide funding. And so still we have to go back

557
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: to the appropriations process every year and try to get

558
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: as much out of the nine million has been authorized

559
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: back to this this program. And you know recently that's

560
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed anywhere from like three hundred four hundred million dollars

561
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: that you know back in four that brought you a

562
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: lot more than it does today, um. And then that

563
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: has to be split up, you know, between all safety states.

564
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: And so the next plus with that bill really is

565
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: with that fund is to try to get it for

566
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: dedicated funding, so away from the appropriations process, dedicated funding

567
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: and full funding, and that full funding would be at

568
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: nine million dollars and that would get us you know,

569
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: a lot better places, um than we are today. There's

570
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: opportunities and there's tons of landowners and tons of access

571
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: opportunities all around this country. But if we don't utilize

572
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: just you know, don't have the money to utilize now,

573
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: you know, potentially those opportunit just go away. So that's

574
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: lwcf UM. It's awesome, awesome tool, and you know it

575
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: again has been used by the counties in this country. Um.

576
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: Besides you know, the that big, big piece, and I

577
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: think that was a driving factor when you see the votes.

578
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: There's also some some smaller pieces within that and um

579
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: one of them would be the Frank and Genie Moore.

580
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: While steel had special management area that's in Oregon's the

581
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: Steelhead Spot UM that basically provided some protection along um

582
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: this river to make sure that you know, the steel

583
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: had could be around forever. Um. There was mineral withdraw

584
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: that happened in the Mental Valley and again pretty much

585
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: around fish of Yellostone Gateway. There was another place where

586
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: there was mineral withdrawal basically saying that you can do,

587
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: you know, everything you want on that public land besides

588
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: take out minerals. And the Yellostone Gateway just like it sounds,

589
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: it was right outside of Yellowstone Park. Just not a

590
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: place that you wanted to have like an open pit

591
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: mine there. UM. And there was other I think ultimately

592
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: there was about five million acres of new wilderness that

593
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: was protected, about five hundred miles of wild and scenic

594
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: river um. So that was huge. And then one of

595
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: these ones that uh, you know that people probably don't

596
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: pay attention to that much, But was re authorization of

597
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: the Neotropical Migratory Bird Conservation Act, which say about five

598
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: times staff that's almost harder than the Dingle Junior act um.

599
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: But it prontly authorized that and and then increased funding

600
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: to six point five million dollars. And so these are

601
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: four you know, neotropical birds little these little birds that

602
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: enhance you and I, you know, time out in the woods.

603
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: There are the things that we're pursuing, but I couldn't

604
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: imagine my life without them on the ground. It kind

605
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: of goes back to that that Aldo Leopold saying like

606
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: that all parts matter, you know, it tends to be

607
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: good for the biological biological community. That's good, and when

608
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: it's not, you know, it's it's it's a bad thing.

609
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: And so this is really making sure that our ecosystems

610
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: um our whole um, at least for migratory bird um.

611
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: So that that was a big piece of that as well.

612
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: But then there was other pieces that I could talk about,

613
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: but I think those are some highlights. Back on the

614
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: LBCF front. You mentioned the fact that yeah, it's reauthorized,

615
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: but it's not fully funded. Um I think I saw

616
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: recently that a bill was proposed to permanently fully funded.

617
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: Is that right? And is that one of those leverage

618
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: points that we need to really focus on and push

619
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: on that specifically or is it still early on that No,

620
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: I'd say absolutely so. Right now bill has been introduced, UM,

621
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: and it was introduced with bipartisan support, and I can't

622
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: remember the exact numbers, but I had equal Democrats and

623
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: equal Republicans and a good representation in the Senate. And

624
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: so that bill has been introduced. The calls for full

625
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: funding so at nine million, and then dedicated funding so

626
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: off the appropriation cycle. And so that bill. You know,

627
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: if anybody's listening to this right now, they can call

628
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: their senator and ask them to become a co sponsor

629
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: of that bill. U see trying to think if I

630
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: got something, I can tell you exactly what that is.

631
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: I will look for that and I'll tell you UM

632
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: and so like that. If they if they, all you

633
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: have to do is we even need to build number.

634
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: But it's just you know, call your elected official, UM

635
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: and say, become a co sponsor of the bill to

636
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: fully fund and fully and dedicated funding to the landwater

637
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Consulation Fund and and so that's a big deal right now,

638
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: and I think that that will move through the Senate um.

639
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: And then we got a little bit of a different

640
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: situation in the House, which you know, we don't have

641
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: a build introduced there yet, but there's some questions about

642
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: where they want that funny to come from. So, um,

643
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: that's something you can do right now. Okay, that's definitely

644
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: a good one to to be keep an eye on

645
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: and in an easy way to make a difference on that, because,

646
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: like you said, LWCF, it's not something that's just impacting

647
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: folks and the Rockies. It's not just someone who's impacting

648
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: folks in the Pacific Northwest or down in like these

649
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 1: big public land areas that people think of. I mean,

650
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: that's I remember looking up there's there's a map somewhere.

651
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: I can't remember where I found this, but it mapped

652
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: out all the different l w CF funded projects across

653
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: the country over time, and I could see, like a

654
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: river that I love to fish, there was a project there.

655
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: There was a force that I used to hunt, There

656
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: have been a project there. There was somewhere in the

657
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: city where I grew up. I mean, there's all these

658
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: things to impact people in the Midwest, in the Northeast,

659
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: and the South. I mean, it's across the board. This

660
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: is this is positively impacting people's lives. So we've got

661
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: a big part of it across the finish line. But

662
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: this is you know, it's great to have it, but

663
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: if there's no money in the fund, we can't do much. Um. So,

664
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, let's let's use that as one of the

665
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: focus series. UM yeah, I mean, I would, I would.

666
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's super important. Sorry, it's super important

667
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: here in the West for sure. But you know, as

668
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: I'm traveling across the country and kind of you know,

669
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: doing my due diligence and and you know, kind of

670
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: studying what's going on in two of these states. Like

671
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: I'll take Iowa again as an example, is that you know,

672
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: we have two percent public lan um they ranked forty

673
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: ninety eight out of fifty. It kind depend on how

674
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: you count it as far as how much public lands

675
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: they have compared to other states. And the Land of

676
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: Water Conservation Fund quite literally is pretty much the only

677
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: opportunity they have to increase the public estate there in Iowa,

678
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: and they've done that in recent years. Um. I mean

679
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: it's again I think this this property was like nine

680
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: thousand acres or ten thousand acres. That's huge, you know

681
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: for them, and they're that's something that you know they

682
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: can make now access and go a hut and fish on.

683
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: So to me, I think it's just as important, um,

684
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, in in the Midwest and the East as

685
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: it is in the in the West, and that you know,

686
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: not only as a way to grow to the state,

687
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: but also to gain access to you know, waterways in particular. Yeah,

688
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: in your travels across all these different states. Now, as

689
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: you mentioned, there's all these new chapters opening across the

690
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: rest of the country, the East, the Midwest, etcetera. Um,

691
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: are there any other like local issues you've come to

692
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: become aware of when it comes to these public land

693
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: concerns or opportunities? UM, I mean you've been everywhere. I've

694
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: seen in Washington, I seen in Iowa, have seen in Minnesota. UM,

695
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: any other examples other than that when you mentioned Iowa

696
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: that that stand out is something Folkstionelbo you know, I

697
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: think that Uh, I mean, this is this takes us

698
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: away maybe totally from the public Plan's piece, but I

699
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: think the CWD is becoming justice. Yeah, I mean it's

700
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: that's on everywhere I go. It's on the people's like

701
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: on the forefront of their mind and trying to figure out,

702
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, what they do. And you know, Wisconsin kind

703
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: of took a slow play and now they're paying for

704
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: it a little bit. And our chapter up there's actually

705
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: leading kind of an effort on for us for a

706
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 1: policy statement on you know c w D. What do

707
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: you do once you get it? And how should we

708
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: kind of address that? And so I think c w

709
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: D is at the forefront of almost every single conversation

710
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: that I have, no matter where I am, um, And

711
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate that, uh you know that that that conversation

712
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: is becoming elevated because that means it's that disease is

713
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: literally reading everywhere. At the same time, I think that

714
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: since it is being elevated, I think there's you know,

715
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: opportunities for conversations around that. Um. You know again, I

716
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: think i've you know, we don't even have a chapter

717
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma yet, but you know, I went down there

718
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: and we did a couple of point nights and talk

719
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: to them, and then some stuff happened to state legislature

720
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: around restricting you know, the Fishing Game Agency in buying

721
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: kind of new public man you know from willing willing

722
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: private landowners that want to either give their land to

723
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: the state or sell it, you know, UM to them

724
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: that there was legislations proposed there that you know what

725
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: has said that the legislature had to approve anything that

726
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: went forward, and so are our folks weren't even developed

727
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: as a full on chapter, but they were able to

728
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: work with you know, the Department UM and then members

729
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: really pushed back against that piece. And so I think

730
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: if there's I mean, this isn't an issue, what I

731
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: would say, there's a lot of hope across this country

732
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: right now. You know, especially in these states like Iowa,

733
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 1: Handsas Um, Indiana, Oklahoma that really don't have a lot

734
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: of public plan I think they value it almost more.

735
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: Um in places where we have a lot of public planks.

736
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we take it for granted. They do not, Um,

737
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: they really value these places. And UM. I think the

738
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: one that I would say it's an issue it's popping

739
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: up everywhere is really water access and whether that be

740
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: up in South Dakota where they're trying to limit lake

741
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: access where now half the lake is considered private even

742
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: though there's been public funds put into boat ramps. UM.

743
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: That's an interesting situation down Louisiana. UM kind of marsh

744
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: access is being challenged all the time. And so you know,

745
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: places that that people have gone for you know, lifetimes

746
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: are now being restricted or these little passes are being

747
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: gated off. And you look at beach access in Florida

748
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: and then North Carolina and in California that's being restricted

749
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: where we challenged that, say, um, all like that water access.

750
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: You know, I think the there's a couple of ways

751
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: to look at water, UM, both for like drinking and

752
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: kind of irrigation, but also for recreation. And I think

753
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: there was a quote at one point on the maybe

754
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: it's something we live by here in Montana, but whiskeys

755
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: for drinking and waters were fighting. And I think as

756
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, water becomes more and more of a finite resource,

757
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: like you're gonna see that become much more of an

758
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: issue all the way across the country, and you know

759
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: in the Louisiana in particular, I don't know how much

760
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: you know about that. The river delta, Okay, so there's

761
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: a Missispan River Delta that's been you know, it's like

762
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: the most productive water fowl places in the country. I

763
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: think that winter our ducks. It's awesome for redfish and

764
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: speckled trout. It's kind of like a nursery. And that

765
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: marsh has been kind of disappearances the twenties because we

766
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: cut that river off, um you know, like the all

767
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: the fresh water and sediment that comes from up north,

768
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, Montana, Minnesota. Uh that trickles down, all that

769
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: just goes out in the middle of the goals. And

770
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: we did that to protect that, you know, protect the

771
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: people that were living down there from the you know

772
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: every year in the spring when there was a flood,

773
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: which is a good thing, but what that's done is

774
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: it's it's really killed the marsh because it doesn't it

775
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: isn't supplemented about that fresh water in the sediment. And

776
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: so as that marsh has receded, I think it's received

777
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,479
Speaker 1: even as you know, but the size of the state

778
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: of Vermont as that's receded, like that just puts way

779
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: more stress on you know, water access because there's less

780
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 1: places to go. And so I think, you know, while

781
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: there's been traditional access down there for a long time, Um,

782
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: now that that you know there's less and less places

783
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: to go, then this has kind of coming to the head. So, um,

784
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: water is gonna be something I think that we continually watch.

785
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: And we've hired somebody over here at d h A

786
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: and that's all they do is like a kind of

787
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: water access issues across the country, and so you know,

788
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: that's basically trying to get up to speed the experts

789
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: on that piece and then engage our people on the ground. Yeah. Yeah,

790
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: that's definitely one of those things that impacts everybody, whether

791
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: you hunt or fish or just want clean water, which

792
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: which brings us to something that has been all over

793
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: the news just recently, which is the changes to the

794
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 1: Clean Water Act. Um, can you and I think we're

795
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: well correctly if I'm wrong, but the comment period has

796
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: past us now unfortunately, but I think it's probably still

797
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: important that we understand what's going on if if if

798
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 1: we don't already, can you get us up to speed

799
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: on on what's been proposed as far as changes to that.

800
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: Why you know what the Clean out Water Act even

801
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: is maybe for some folks would be good to know too. Yeah,

802
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: I think the when you talked earlier and I thought

803
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: this was great when you talked about kind of like

804
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: the momentum and start back in the sixties, you know

805
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: around um kind of just public lands. And then we

806
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: got the Womanness Act, and later in the seventies have

807
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts that

808
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: were established, and really the Clean Water Act was originally

809
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: established because you know, we were just polluting our rivers

810
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: um here in the United States. I mean there was

811
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 1: rumors that you could literally um right on the fire,

812
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: you know, because they had so much oil in them. Um.

813
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's just it's just crazy that that is.

814
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: You know, it's not that long ago when you think

815
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: about it. And and so that's the way it was originally, um,

816
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: you know put forth is basically to protect the waters

817
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: of the US that belonged to you and I and

818
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 1: every American and to make sure that we had those

819
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: you know again, that we had clean water for drinking

820
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: and for irrigation and and so that when that was

821
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: established again it was like bipartisan Nixon's had that into law,

822
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: and and so it's just great kind of conservation victory.

823
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: Now there's been some challenges to uh, what is actually

824
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: a jurisdictional water so underneath the Clean Water Act, and

825
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: that one of those challenges through a court case was

826
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: around temporary wetlands and intermittent streams. So temporary wetlands are

827
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: these wetlands like in North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, and

828
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,479
Speaker 1: other places in the country where they're only wet during

829
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 1: the spring, and so you know, there's there's there's the

830
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: spring rains, and and there's these little dips in the

831
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: in the topography and those they are filled with water. Well,

832
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: those have awesome invertebrate life, so insect life in there

833
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: that are really really important to ducks in particular waterfoll

834
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: and so um. While they're not like those those are

835
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 1: not connected directly to a river, back in two thousands,

836
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: those uh they lost protection. So those temporary wetlands. The

837
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: same thing happened with intermittent streams. Intermittent streams, you know,

838
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: are only run during the spring as well when it's

839
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: kind of high water, and so they're not year round streams,

840
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: but they're super important especially to uh uh spawning trout.

841
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: And and so both those lost protections back in two thousands.

842
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: And then the Abam administration that the length the uh

843
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: comment period and throughout that comment period, I think there

844
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: was over a million people that provided comments, the majority

845
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: of which, like supermajority of which were to restore protections.

846
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: Is that's exactly what the administration did, you know, restoring

847
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: protections to intermittent streams and temporary wetlands. And then the

848
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: new administration came in and said, no, we're gonna roll

849
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: it back again. So at must we're gonna start a

850
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: process and look at that. And so that's what's been

851
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: going on. I think that comment period was over last week,

852
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: and again I think there's an overwhelming amount of comments

853
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: there in support of restoring kind of these protections. Are

854
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: keeping these protections, but um, you know, there's gonna be

855
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: a decision made that we're that we're worried about that's

856
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: really gonna take away protections for the intromittent streams and

857
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: temporary web us. So unfortunately it's become like this political football.

858
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: This gets passed back and the fourth instead of when

859
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, it was established back in the in the seventies,

860
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: when it was really a bipartisan nature and something that

861
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: you really stood the test of time. It's open tsan. Yeah,

862
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: So you bring up an interesting point this this whole

863
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: game of political football where it's like this pendulum is

864
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: swinging every four to eight years, where you get pro

865
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: conservation stuff, um, from one party, and then a new

866
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: administration comes in, it swings the other way and stuff

867
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: gets pulled back, and then it goes back and forth,

868
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: back and forth. And it doesn't seem like since the seventies,

869
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 1: really late sixties and the seventies when you had that

870
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: you just talked about with Nixon passing the Clean Air

871
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: and Clean Water Act, and then that was the Endangered

872
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,439
Speaker 1: Species Act, and there was I mean, all these things

873
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: that the wellness cycle we talked about in the sixties,

874
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: all this really foundational stuff that now are we depend on,

875
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, our environment and public lands are all a

876
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: lot of ways depending on those those acts that passed

877
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: there in the sixties and seventies by Republicans and Democrats.

878
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 1: We haven't really had that kind of biparts and support

879
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: at all since then. Um, maybe barring this this recent

880
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 1: bill that just passed in a in a pretty rare

881
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: by by parts and fashion, do you think do you

882
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: think we can ever get back to what it was

883
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: at that time in the in the seventies, Um, do

884
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: you think that this is this recent bill is an

885
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,720
Speaker 1: example that happening, or is this kind of a flash

886
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: in the hand and it will probably get right back

887
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 1: to these issues are split down party lines and you're stuck.

888
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: It's a really good question. I think we're living in

889
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: very interesting times. Um, you know the I think what

890
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: happened since the seventies and kind of early eighties when

891
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: there was this kind of bipartisan nature and people were

892
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: working together. I think there was a wedge that was

893
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: driven between the sportsman's community and the environmental community. And

894
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: I think when you have those two working together, I

895
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: think that's why That's why I surmise of why we

896
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: had such bipartisan efforts and it got such great things

897
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: accomplished back at that time. And I think there's been

898
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: a you know, a really thoughtful, systematic kind of division

899
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: and created between the two. Um is that we're gonna

900
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: come back? I'm not sure. I think that one thing

901
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 1: that I'm super excited about is as kind of you know,

902
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: the the other human sports, I guess human powered sports

903
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: folks get more organized, so like the kayakers, the mountain bikers,

904
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: the climbers, backpackers, as they're getting more organized, that I'm

905
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: starting to feel like we're getting to some of that

906
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: critical massages. And I think that play it out, you know,

907
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: in a big way with those public lands packers that

908
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: just packed just passed in such overwhelming fashion. I think that,

909
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, that it will be interesting to see kind

910
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: of how um just emerging kind of voice works with

911
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: kind of hunters and ahbers who you know, we've been

912
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: doing conservation and caring about public lands for a hundred

913
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 1: and fifty years and so as those you know, and

914
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: I don't I hate to kind of pigeonholed people in

915
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: places like you know, there's plenty of our members the

916
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: ride mountain bikes and go back country skiing and kayaking

917
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: when they're not hunting and fishing. You know, their outdoors people,

918
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 1: and so you know, whatever chance they get there out

919
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: in the woods around the water. Um. But I do

920
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: think there is kind of like this perceived division between

921
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: kind of by so again, the human power folks and

922
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: the hunters and anglers. And I think I'm started to

923
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: see that that's coming together, and so I have great

924
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: hope in that. And you know, when you think about

925
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: like the people that hunt and fish and the people

926
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: that kayak and Mountain Bike. Like, that's every single political

927
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: stripe in this country. You know, that's a that's Democrats,

928
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: that's Republicans, that's independents, that's libertarians, that screen party, Like

929
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: all those people love to get outside and on the water,

930
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 1: and so I I don't want to be you know

931
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: too um the classes you know, so have full on

932
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: this thing. But like that gives me hope, Mark, and

933
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, at the end of

934
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: the day, I think that that if we bring these

935
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: two groups together, we're not going to agree on everything

936
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: all the time, the boy on the things that we

937
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 1: can't agree upon, like this public Plan's package. If we

938
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: can have a unified voice, and I think that we'll

939
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: get what we want. I thought it was really encouraging

940
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,879
Speaker 1: last year at the b h A Rendezvous of two

941
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: eighteen when uh, you know, in a very symbolic I

942
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: thought it was very symbolic of this kind of bringing

943
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: together of these two halves of the outdoor community. When

944
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: a Van Schinnard you know, made an appearance that the

945
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: rendezvous was walking around the beers bands in public Lands

946
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: to night, he shared a story and and stood up

947
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: on stage in front of everybody and said that this

948
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: was like the I think he said something on the

949
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: lines like this is the most impressive group of people

950
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Um. And you know, he's the for

951
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: those who don't know, he's the founder and CEO of Patagonia,

952
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: which is I think they've kind of established themselves as

953
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: as a leading voice for public lands and conservation related

954
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: issues in that community, if you want to call the

955
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: ri I crowd. UM, I feel like they have really

956
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: taken that strongest stance. And so to have like the

957
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: leader of that section or that group saying, hey, I'm

958
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: all for being here with a bunch of hunters and

959
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: anglers um enjoining hands to to fight for these common causes.

960
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: I thought that was like really great positive symbolism to

961
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: see these two groups of people saying, hey, we can

962
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: we can do these things together, even though, like you mentioned,

963
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: we still disagree on a lot of stuff, like Nard

964
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: and a lot of folks of Patty going in and

965
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: a lot of folks in that community will disagree with

966
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: a lot of hunters about specific things. You know, let's

967
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: talk about grizzly bears are all sort of different hunting

968
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: relations issues, Like there's gonna be stuff there, um, But

969
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: I love the fact that there are these things that

970
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: we can set aside some of these differences and say, Hey,

971
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: you might live in the city, I live in the country.

972
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: You might vote for this vote person, I might vote

973
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: for this person. You might talk like this, I might

974
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: talk like that. But there are these things that we

975
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: can come together on because bigger than those petty differences. Um.

976
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: And and like you said, I feel like the Dingle

977
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: Conservation Act was one of those um results of that

978
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: kind of thing happening. So so I agree with you.

979
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: I hope that and I think there are these examples

980
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: of the fact that that's that's starting to happen. Um.

981
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: But I don't know where I heard, but someone said,

982
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: like the fish rots from the head first. Um, And

983
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 1: I'm hoping the opposite is true. So I'm hoping because

984
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: I I see like this this biparson nature of like

985
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: the the Rii crowd and the Cabella's crowd, Like I

986
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: think we're starting to come together here down in like

987
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: the body, like the average everyday people were saying, Hey,

988
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: the hunters and anglers and mountain bikers and kayakers and

989
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: wildlife watchers, we can get together to fight for these

990
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: public lands. But it's how do we get the head

991
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: of the fish. So are politicians Republicans, democrats, how do

992
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: we get them to make sure to do the same thing?

993
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 1: And and probably, like like we've been talking about, yelling

994
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: really loud and very consistently to the right people, probably

995
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: eventually reverses the fish route. Right. Yeah, I love that analogy.

996
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm trying to figure out where I'm

997
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: on that fish right now. I think the uh, I

998
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: think it goes back to like this idea of like

999
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: the rule a little bit. No, we're gonna agree upon

1000
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: of the of things and then we disagree. And I

1001
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: would say, you know, amongst my friends that I hang

1002
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: out with, that we're on a rule, and like that's

1003
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: pretty good for us. And and and I'd say the

1004
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: same thing with my wife. You know, like if I

1005
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: if I told my wife that we had to agree

1006
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: upon pent of the same things all the time, I

1007
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't be married to her, and vice versa. And and

1008
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: so I think this eight twin rule um is an

1009
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: important thing to remember. And and yeah, I think I

1010
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: think the grassroots are again there are many of the

1011
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: same people you when you think about the foodie movement.

1012
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: That's happening right now in this country, and a lot

1013
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: of kind of new hunters that are early twenties, early

1014
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: thirties that didn't grow up hunting, but they're super active outdoors.

1015
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: They grow their own gardens, and now they want to

1016
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: kill their own meat. I like, that's that crowd, you know.

1017
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: And I think that you know, we're doing storytelling events

1018
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: and in Minneapolis and in Seattle and in San Francisco

1019
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 1: and some of these urban centers. You know, we're getting

1020
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: some of those new people that are there and they're

1021
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: super interested and you know, want to jump in. And

1022
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: and I would say, you know, the kid who grew

1023
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: up uh, you know, hunting and fishing, you know, I'm

1024
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: Dad's back and just doing stuff from a very young age.

1025
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: Like like, these people are almost more passionate to me

1026
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: when they come to it because it's brand new to them,

1027
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: you know. And and so I welcome them to the floor.

1028
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: And I think again that you know, that food might

1029
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,439
Speaker 1: be the best play to kind of bridge the gap

1030
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: with these folks. And you know, speaking to Paddock Gunya,

1031
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: we didn't invent at their headquarters and Ventura a couple

1032
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: of months ago, um, you know where we invited the

1033
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: public and had some uh wild boar for people to taste,

1034
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, they just gotten shot two or three days

1035
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: before that. I think it was two or four picks

1036
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: and drank beer and ate wild boar and listen to

1037
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: some music and told some stories. And you know, what

1038
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: a way to bring people together. And again, I'm not

1039
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: gonna say that everybody walk out there singing the same

1040
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: sheet of music. But we're able to have conversations over food,

1041
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, over a little beer, and you know, find

1042
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: common ground. And I think that's really what we need

1043
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: to be striving for. And I think that people are

1044
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: starving for that in this country right now. You know,

1045
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of memes and a

1046
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: lot of anger that's out there, and I think from

1047
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where to come together and I

1048
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better one than public moans

1049
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: of public waters. Yeah, so, so a an event like that,

1050
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: the Patagonia Headquarters event, or I know that you've been

1051
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: connecting with the folks or at o I A so

1052
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: the Outdoor Industry Association, which kind of represents that ARII crowd,

1053
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: if we'll just labeled that for now. UM, what's been

1054
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: like the feedback you've been getting from that community when

1055
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: when we talk about these issues, like is there the

1056
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 1: same positive vibes like they want to get together with

1057
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: hunters and anglers or is there some resistance still? What's

1058
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: the vibe you pick up there? You know, I think, um,

1059
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: I think there's some mutual interest. I would say that

1060
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: for sure. I think that, you know, some of the

1061
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: barriers are that you and I like to kill stuff,

1062
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: and I think sometimes people have a hard time getting

1063
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 1: over that and that you know that we're out there

1064
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: as predators while they're out there as observers, and so

1065
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the biggest barrier to get over.

1066
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 1: I think food UM is helpful in that. UM. I

1067
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: think that you know, as you know, a lot of

1068
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: these folks are just starting to get engaged in conservation,

1069
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: and so as the story is told to them about

1070
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of where we came from, why we have what

1071
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: we have today, and kind of some of these stories

1072
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: that you and I have talked about today already, they

1073
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 1: start to have a better appreciation I think for hunters

1074
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: and anglers, and you know, they're not just takers that

1075
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: were big time givers back to these public lands and

1076
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: public waters. And just conservation in general. I think once

1077
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: they started they figure that out. I think those barriers

1078
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: are broken down. But I'm not gonna say that it's

1079
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: all like rosy um. But I think the first part

1080
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: is like having those conversations. And you know, if we

1081
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: can get in the door and have those conversations, um,

1082
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: nine times out of time, I think we come out

1083
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: the other side book, you know, in a better place. Um.

1084
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: You know, we're working with folks like New Belgium. You

1085
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: know New Belgium you think about fat fire and kind

1086
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: of that crowd that doesn't necessarily feel like a hunting

1087
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: and fishing crowd. But you know, we were working with

1088
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: them multiple events that their headquarters in Colorado of something

1089
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: without or retailer UM show with them, and you know,

1090
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: what a what a great brand to kind of like

1091
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: bring people together. And again, you know, I think that

1092
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: you know, whoever invented beer, you know that was like

1093
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: I think it's like monks in the Ireland or something.

1094
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 1: But but like beers are bringing people together ever since

1095
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: it was it was you know, like created and so

1096
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: I think you know those ideas, um, and doing that

1097
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: I think is the way we get past some of

1098
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: that stuff. But you know, I think I guess one

1099
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: thing I would say that we as hunters, um also

1100
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: need to be careful of is that is that, yes,

1101
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: we have this amazing, rich history of controvertion. You think

1102
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: about the excise taxes during the nineteen twenties, you know

1103
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: with Pitman Robertson, think about the duck stamp. I mean,

1104
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, many of the things that we've talked about today,

1105
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: like all that's awesome, and let's just be careful about

1106
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: beating on our chest too much and that, you know,

1107
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: and and and not acknowledging either other efforts now or

1108
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: roles of other people played. And I think you know,

1109
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: if we do that, I think it's a much more

1110
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: welcoming conversation. If we sit there and be like you

1111
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: got that, Johnny, come lately and we've done everything, and

1112
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: listen to us like, that's not really a great way

1113
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: to start a conversation, I don't think so. I think

1114
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: I would caution that, you know, all of us as

1115
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: ambassadors is to really, you don't be proud of our heritage,

1116
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: but not to be boastful, like too over boastful about it,

1117
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, um. And And really I think

1118
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, we're starting these conversations about you know, potential

1119
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 1: backpack tax, but it's kind of like an overarching theme.

1120
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: But that would be you know, hiking boots, backpacks, sleeping bags,

1121
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 1: like other stuff, mountain bikes that gets used in the outdoors,

1122
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: and really trying to figure out a similar system to

1123
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: what we do with like firearms, ammunition and fishing, you know,

1124
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: fishing and bowl equipment. And I think in that conversation,

1125
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: I mean, think about the money that would generate and

1126
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 1: and I think welcoming them to that kind of uh,

1127
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: to that opportunity, or at least talking about that opportunity.

1128
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing. Could be you know,

1129
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: one of the biggest conservation wins in our life, and

1130
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: we actually got that done. Yeah. Yeah, you make a

1131
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 1: couple interesting points, especially he said that the chest meetings.

1132
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes I've thought about that too, and it's to your point.

1133
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: We have this tremendous legacy of what hunters have done

1134
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: as conservationists, all those things you listed, Um, but you know,

1135
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: there's this business saying that if you're not growing, you're dying,

1136
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: and I kind of feel like that applies to us

1137
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: as hunters, Like we can't just point to our past

1138
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: as um, affirmation of of our value. Like, yes, we

1139
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: can be proud of our past, but we have to

1140
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: be growing too. We have to continue to contribute to

1141
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: the future. UM. So I think that's that's where it

1142
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: becomes our our own us, right, that's our new responsibility.

1143
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: We can look back at what all these what our

1144
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 1: forefathers done, and be inspired by that. But now like

1145
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: it's on us now, we've got to take those next

1146
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: steps and hopefully fifty years a hundred years from now,

1147
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: our grandkids can look back and say, wow, look at

1148
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: what these folks did and what they did because of

1149
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: what they learn from folks in the thirties and the

1150
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: twenties and um and all that stuff. Which, then to

1151
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: your point with the backpack tax, this is one of

1152
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: those things that it makes a lot of sense, right,

1153
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't folks in the across the board me too,

1154
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: buying backpacks or hiking boots, and then the rest of

1155
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: the recreation community community, why wouldn't we want to, um

1156
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: have some excise tax on that, giving back to conservation,

1157
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: public lands and whatnot. UM. But there's pushback on both

1158
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: sides of the issue. UM, there's pushback from the recreation community.

1159
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: It seems like the manufacturers and stuff about prices and

1160
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I'm more interested in the pushback

1161
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: from our community, which is I've heard some people say no,

1162
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to backpack tax, because I like them

1163
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: quoting here in general and generalities here that the line

1164
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: being that, no, we don't want the backpack tax because

1165
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: then we lose our influence. Right now, hunters have this

1166
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: disproportioned influence because we're the ones that pay for the

1167
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: lion's share of conservation because of the Pittman robertson that.

1168
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: But if all of a sudden, hikers and bird watchers

1169
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, all of the stuff, they can say, well,

1170
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: now we pay for some large majority of the two,

1171
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: then they start changing how decisions are being made about

1172
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: wildlife management, hunting, or whatever it might be. Um, is

1173
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: that a real threat or what do you think about that?

1174
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 1: How do we think about this? You know, I I

1175
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: totally recognize that threat of kind of losing our cloud

1176
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: and our kind of influence over decision making. Like, I

1177
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: totally recognize that. But I would say to people, and

1178
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: I've had this conversation many times, is that you know

1179
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing numbers are either going down or they're

1180
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: being maintained. But we're really not, you know, we're not

1181
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: We're not in a huge influx of people hunters and

1182
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: anglers in this country. And even if we are maintaining

1183
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: or even gaining a little bit, we're still becoming less

1184
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: and less of a percentage of the overall population. And

1185
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: so let's let's think about that. And so you know,

1186
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: I think fifty years from now and we're headed towards

1187
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: this like this cliff, we're gonna go over the top

1188
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: of this cliff. That is, you know, like we just

1189
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: have lost all of our cloud because our numbers aren't

1190
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,439
Speaker 1: that big. Like that's not a place that I don't

1191
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: want to think about. And so you know, well, we

1192
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: maybe potentially lose some cloud if we add some folks

1193
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: in potentially, um, And I think that, you know, that's

1194
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: a real conversation. That's one of the reasons to have,

1195
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, build these relationships early. I think with you know,

1196
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: these folks that that don't you know, catch and kill stuff. Um.

1197
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: But at the same time, and we're not it's not

1198
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: like we're living in a land up plenty right now either,

1199
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: you know earlier in this conversation we'll talk about our

1200
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: agencies being starved, um and you know, this is a

1201
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,959
Speaker 1: way to bring money in. And I think bring money

1202
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: in with people who have, you know, again many of

1203
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: the shared values that we do as hundreds and anglers

1204
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: that you know, they like to that solitude and the

1205
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: channels in the salts they can find out on our

1206
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: public lands and waters. And so I'm I'm much more

1207
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: of the game of let's work together with them, build relationships,

1208
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: um that and and add more money to the pot

1209
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: and then have conversations about how things are managed. And

1210
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: I think if we do that, I think we're in

1211
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: a much better place. Unless, you know, instead of don't

1212
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: necessarily like this analogy but sticking our heads in the

1213
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: sand and not really looking at what's going on around us.

1214
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: That analogy that you said earlier about you know, uh,

1215
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: you're not changing, You're dying, you know, And I really

1216
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: feel like we have to be doing that. And if

1217
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, if we don't, but I don't know if

1218
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: the future looks so great for us. And I think

1219
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: if you know, if we do um that I think

1220
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: you know that our future looks much brighter. Yeah, So

1221
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: so then what is your your view of the future?

1222
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: Then where where do you see things headed? Based off

1223
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: reading the tea leaves, seeing what's happened over the last

1224
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: four years, there's been a lot going on. Um, WHOA,

1225
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: what do you predict we have coming down the line

1226
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: in the next few years? How do you see stuff

1227
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:10,520
Speaker 1: around the election impacting things? Um? What should we be

1228
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: thinking about around all that? You know? I think that

1229
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: that there's a great question, and um, tea leaves or

1230
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: crystal ball are always hard, but I think that you know,

1231
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: as public lands become there's been much more of an

1232
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: awareness around them. I think it's gonna play in this

1233
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: next election cycle, the election cycle in a big way. Um,

1234
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily at a presidential level, but I think

1235
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: definitely at a kind of senate house level. I'm at

1236
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,919
Speaker 1: a local level. Is that, you know, and I look

1237
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: at Montana in particular. You cannot be on the wrong

1238
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: side of this issue right now and get elected for

1239
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: a statewide office in Montana. And when I say against,

1240
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, the issue is that if you are for

1241
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: the sale or transfer of public lands or kind of

1242
01:02:55,120 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 1: the systematic defunding or just kind of deterioration like you're

1243
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: not gonna get elected to Montana. And I think that's

1244
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: starting to permeate out other places. UM. And and so

1245
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be you know, really important election

1246
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: issue in UM. So. I think that's and I think

1247
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: that's a good thing. UM. I think that that you know,

1248
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, people care about healthcare, they care about the economy,

1249
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: but as public lands and public waters, I think get

1250
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: elevated to a top tier issue. I think that's a

1251
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: good thing for all the things that you and I

1252
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: care about. There again, is always gonna be differences on

1253
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: how we manage those places, but I think that that's

1254
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: something for us to pay attention to. UM. I think

1255
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: along those lines, I think there's something that we all

1256
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: need to be paying attention to. Crystal Ball wise, is

1257
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: that you know, this is hunting. I'm not. And I

1258
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: just come out and say, I mean, hunting has been

1259
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 1: dominated by white males for a long time in this country,

1260
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: and those demographics are changing in this country. And and

1261
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: I think that we need to recognize that and be

1262
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: well com mean and so that you know, organizations and

1263
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: so that you know, media portray and like it looks

1264
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: more like the country does. And I say that because

1265
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, as we want votes and and that's really

1266
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: ultimately what's going to keep us um kind of on

1267
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: the up and up for our conservation legacy and help

1268
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: us pass it on to the next generation. I think

1269
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 1: we really need to be conscious about, you know, looking

1270
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: more like America and much more diversity within our ranks,

1271
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: within the hunting of the fishing ranks. I think that's starting, UM,

1272
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, crystal ball wise like twenty

1273
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: and twenty four, Like I just I just like our

1274
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: community reflect more of what America looks like right now. Yeah,

1275
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: that's a great point, and that will play very much

1276
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: into the whole issue we're just talking about, which is

1277
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: hunter numbers declining so much and our influence declining with that. Well,

1278
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: if we aren't willing to welcome different kinds of people

1279
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: into our community, there's no way that our numbers are

1280
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: gonna grow. So it's uh, even though it's the right

1281
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 1: thing to do, and it's also self serving as well,

1282
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: which is nice that they go in hand to hand. UM.

1283
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: One of the back to what you were just talking

1284
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: about on the election side of things and how public

1285
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: lands are becoming a bigger and bigger deal. One of

1286
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: the things around this UM that always causes I think

1287
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: people in our community some struggles internally, UM that I

1288
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: just kind of want to get an idea of how

1289
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: you think about this to kind of help us think

1290
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: about it, because because I struggled with this too. Is Unfortunately,

1291
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: UM things are split down party lines in a lot

1292
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: of cases, as we talked about a few minutes ago,

1293
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: and one of the big splits oftentimes not always, but

1294
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: oftentimes is you're gonna get one candidate that is great

1295
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: on public lands and taking care of the environment and

1296
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: inhabitant whatnot, but not really good on hunter rights firearm rights.

1297
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: Then you might have the other candidate that's really good

1298
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: at firearm rights and hunter right but not very good

1299
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: on public lands and uh in conservation. How do you

1300
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: personally like deal with that internally in your head or

1301
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: how do you recommend us dealing with that, UM or

1302
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: changing that? Because probably the best solutions just to change that,

1303
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if that's gonna happen in the

1304
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: short term or not sure. UM. So just to be clear,

1305
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: uh back, and we're a five one C three, so

1306
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: we can't you know, tell you who to vote for.

1307
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: Endorsed candidates anything like that, Like we can give you

1308
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: information and so then people can figure that out for themselves,

1309
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: which we've done through candid questionnaires. But we're forbidding as

1310
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: a five O one C three from you know, endorsing

1311
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: or being part of that politcal process um, the election process.

1312
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: I would say, uh, how do I look at that myself?

1313
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: I think I'm I'm on the second part of that,

1314
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: like where I think we need to force our elected

1315
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 1: officials to be both good on guns, hunter rights and

1316
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: public lands and conservations, and I don't think we should be.

1317
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I get pretty frustrated when I

1318
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 1: hear that dichotomy. I know that there's a lot of

1319
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: truth and reality of that. There's also a lot of

1320
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 1: great of that as well, And when we talk about

1321
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: that in black and white ways, I think it feels

1322
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: defeat us a little bit and that we're never gonna

1323
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: be able to change it. But I've got plenty of examples,

1324
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, on both sides of the aisle of people

1325
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 1: that are more in that gray area, and I think

1326
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: that we the people need demand that they're like that.

1327
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: And you know, I think, you know, I'm born in

1328
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: Raidingsing in Montana. So I know Montana best, but you know,

1329
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: are elected officials like set A at a statewide level,

1330
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: they're both good on guns and hunter rights as well

1331
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: as public fans and conservation, and there's nuances to each

1332
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: side of that. But you know, I mean Democrats if

1333
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 1: they're if they're if they're antisecond amendment in this state,

1334
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: they're not gonna win at a at a state level. Um,

1335
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: if you're a Republican and you um, you know, are

1336
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: have draconian ideas about public lands and other should be managed,

1337
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to win a statewide race. And so

1338
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 1: I think that didn't happen because they woke up one

1339
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 1: day and they're like, that's a good idea. That happened

1340
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 1: by people on the ground demanding, what you know, those

1341
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: things from them. And so to me, I think that

1342
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,560
Speaker 1: gives me hope for other parts of the country. And

1343
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, it goes back to the thing I said

1344
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: earlier in this conversation is that you know, the squeaky

1345
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: wheel gets the grease, and if you are demanding of

1346
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: your politicians that you can't be one of the other,

1347
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: you have to beat both. I think we have a

1348
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 1: much better chance, Um do I think that's gonna happen

1349
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: in the short term, probably not. Um do I think

1350
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 1: that there's always gonna be you know, there's always gonna

1351
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: be people on one far side, you know, on the

1352
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: left or on the far side on the right, that's

1353
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 1: always gonna be there. But man, I gotta think that

1354
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: the majority of this country is more in the middle,

1355
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: and we just have to demand it. And I think

1356
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: we've a much better places we did. Yeah. Yeah, that

1357
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: that's that's how I tend to to think and hope

1358
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 1: and and look towards the future with with hope that

1359
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: we can that we can do that. And I think,

1360
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, that's forty seven the Dingle Johnson Act, I

1361
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: think is just again saying it again, But I just

1362
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 1: think it's it's a great example for us to point

1363
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 1: to and saying, hey, we can make some of these changes,

1364
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,720
Speaker 1: we can make a difference, and and all these things

1365
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: we're talking about that we want to change in the future, like, hey,

1366
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,959
Speaker 1: if that was possible, so are these things? So? Um absolutely,

1367
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: that's my that's my railing cry. At least, is there

1368
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: is there anything else land before? Let's you go back

1369
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: to the organized chaos of preparing for rendezvous. Is there

1370
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: any other final message or final things I want to

1371
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: stay on the phone with you, I think, I mean

1372
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: my final thought and like you've talked about this a lot,

1373
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:46,640
Speaker 1: but I just always like to kind of lead with

1374
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: this is again, be proud of living here in America

1375
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 1: and owning sixty million acres. You know that that idea,

1376
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,839
Speaker 1: you know, the public land owner, that's not just a slogan,

1377
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 1: that's that's really a way of life, something unique that

1378
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: we have here in America that no other country in

1379
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: the world has. Um you know, Canada is is probably

1380
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: the closest, and then you go like New Zealand, but

1381
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: really there is no other place like America. Like this

1382
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: is an ideal that you know that we should all

1383
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 1: be proud of and know that with that ownership becomes responsibility.

1384
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 1: And you know, when you own a car, you know

1385
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 1: you can't if you don't care and feed that car,

1386
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: it's eventually gonna you know, break down and seize up

1387
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: way before it what have if you would have cared

1388
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: and feed it. And so I think that, you know,

1389
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: let's be proud of what we have and then realize that,

1390
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: you know, we need to make sure that we pass

1391
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: it on to the next generation. And that's by being engaged.

1392
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 1: And that's the thing I, you know, I'd like to

1393
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: leave you with is really, you know, that hope and

1394
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: kind of that I'm seeing all across the Midwest in

1395
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: these states that only have you know, two percent public

1396
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 1: land or close to it. That man I went there

1397
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: wondering what I was gonna talk about, and I left

1398
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 1: therapy and like, oh my goodness, these books are on fire.

1399
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 1: And they care about not only what's happening in their

1400
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: own states and trying to you know, grow that public

1401
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: and state it, but they know that they own the

1402
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: Bob Marshall Wilderness. You know, that's in my backyard just

1403
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: as much as I do. And I think that's something

1404
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 1: for everybody to keep in mind. And I've I've been

1405
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: up to Alaska a couple of times for meetings, but

1406
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 1: never recreated up there, and maybe never will. I hope

1407
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: I will. But like that belongs to me and you,

1408
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: just like it does anybody else, you know, and I

1409
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:22,640
Speaker 1: might I might not ever get there, but boy, is

1410
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 1: it a place that I dream about and having it

1411
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: there and just knowing there's a place that's that big

1412
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 1: in that wild is pretty awesome to me, and so

1413
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: um for anybody listening to this man, you own sex

1414
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: hundred forty acres, be prideful about that, understand where it

1415
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: came from, and then do everything you can to protect

1416
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: a point forward. Yeah, I think, uh yeah, I think

1417
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: that's a great, a great thing to to send us

1418
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: home on. And uh ma'am, I just want to thank

1419
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,640
Speaker 1: you Land for being such a great leader of this

1420
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: movement there through b h A. But I think you've

1421
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,639
Speaker 1: also not just of that organization, but but really you've

1422
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: done a great job of standing up and and being

1423
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: a a figurehead for this larger movement and really railing

1424
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: hunters and anglers and putting giving a hand out and

1425
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: not giving hand out, but reaching a hand out to

1426
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 1: other folks and saying, hey, let's all work together. You've

1427
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: you've led by example on that and personally that's been

1428
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: encouraging to see and I think for a lot of

1429
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: the folks too. So uh so, thanks for what you're doing.

1430
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: And I'm really glad that you're gonna be helping us

1431
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: all move forward in the future too. Mark, very kind

1432
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 1: and humbling words. I appreciate that. I think throw back,

1433
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:34,799
Speaker 1: I mean to you that you know, with this podcast,

1434
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: you have a gigantic bully pulpit, as you know, it's

1435
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: what Roset used to call like the presidency, right Like,

1436
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 1: he's got this awesome megaphone that he gets to use.

1437
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: And I think what you and everybody I'm so over

1438
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: at Mediator is doing like you guys have a gigantic

1439
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 1: bully pulpit right now. And I know I'm super spoke

1440
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:51,759
Speaker 1: to be kind of in that arena with you alls,

1441
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 1: um and and and really, you know, the reason that

1442
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 1: I talked about this kind of public Land's revolution is

1443
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: really because folks like you are spreading that message. So um,

1444
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: the thank you goes right back to you. We've got

1445
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to do together, Mark, and at

1446
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 1: some point we'll be celebrating together, um and I look

1447
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: forward to those days. But please keep up a good

1448
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: work as well. On your end. Sounds great, Land, Good

1449
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 1: luck with the rendezvous. Yeah, it's it's gonna be one

1450
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: heck of a party. I wish I was gonna be

1451
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: there next year. I will be next year, I will

1452
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 1: be all right. Thanks Land, and that, my friends, is

1453
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 1: the end of this episode. Just want to give another

1454
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: big thanks to Land. Tawny and if you're interested in

1455
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: learning more about land and what b h A is

1456
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: up to, you can visit back Country Hunters dot org

1457
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: and become a member too if you're not already highly recommended.

1458
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: I'm a member. I'm also on the board for a

1459
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,640
Speaker 1: Michigan chapter. It's just a really, really great group of

1460
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: folks to work with in an issue that, as far

1461
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, it's just about second to none. So

1462
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 1: with all that said, thank you for tuning in. Thanks

1463
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: for being the kind of folks, the kind of guys

1464
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: and girls that stand up for these kinds of things,

1465
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 1: whether it be public lands or the future of our

1466
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: deer herds or private land, conservation, clean air, clean water,

1467
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:12,719
Speaker 1: the right to hunting fish. I mean, all these things

1468
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 1: are around because folks in the pasta for him and

1469
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm confident that folks like you are the ones who

1470
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,639
Speaker 1: are gonna continue doing that in the future. And I'm

1471
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 1: just a damn proud person here today knowing that you're

1472
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: a part of this Wired Hunt community. So thank you.

1473
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 1: Have a great weekend, and stay wired to hunt.