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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and soon to be retired Senator Joe

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Speaker 1: Manchin says Trump will destroy America if he wins. Really

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Speaker 1: you don't say, perhaps he'll reconsider learning for president with

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Speaker 1: no labels. We have such a great show today. Congressman

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Speaker 1: Wiley Nicholl joins us to talk about the oh so

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Speaker 1: important jerry mandering happening in North Carolina. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to Talking Fed's host Harry Littman about Trump's latest legal fuckery,

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Speaker 1: and of course my mother.

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Speaker 2: But first we have the host of the.

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Speaker 1: Lawrence O'Donnell Show, MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell. Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Lawrence.

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Speaker 3: Always great to be here.

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Speaker 1: We had to have you on for a number of

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Speaker 1: reasons because when things get chaotick.

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Speaker 4: One, okay, it's early, just pick one.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I've shood by is you

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Speaker 1: have such experienced working in the Senate and we had

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Speaker 1: this wild, kind of insane congressional week. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious your take as someone who has actually worked

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Speaker 1: in the institution, I mean, with the cr and now

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Speaker 1: it's they're going to do this, They're going to kick

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Speaker 1: the can until twenty four.

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Speaker 2: I'm just curious what your take on that.

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Speaker 4: It's a good thing that it's been a gradual decline,

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Speaker 4: and so so I've processed a bunch of these moments

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Speaker 4: that bring us ultimately to the thing where Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 4: becomes a wrestling referee. I mean, that thing was the

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Speaker 4: ugliest thing that I've ever seen publicly in the Senate.

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Speaker 4: I saw a couple of ugly, private, very private moments

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Speaker 4: in the Senate, but I don't know, it's probably been

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Speaker 4: like a fifteen year decline into that.

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Speaker 1: I want to pause and just talk about what you

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Speaker 1: were talking about. This was a hearing where Bernie Sanders

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Speaker 1: had to interrupt a senator from Oklahoma who was threatening

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Speaker 1: the life of the president of the Teamsters Union or

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Speaker 1: he was challenging him to an MMA fight.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, everybody's seen this crazy video of this guy, who,

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Speaker 4: by the way, the clue to the madness that was

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Speaker 4: going to come is this is the senator who's decided

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Speaker 4: to bring the Jim Jordan dress code to the United

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Speaker 4: States Senate and you know, sit there without the suit code,

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Speaker 4: but It's the kind of thing where you know, when

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Speaker 4: you see your former workplace degraded into something ridiculous from

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Speaker 4: something by the way that you fully respected, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean when I worked there, I fully respected it.

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Speaker 4: And I also thought when I worked there in the

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Speaker 4: nineteen nineties that this was the low point of the

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Speaker 4: United States Senator because it had become by the definition

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Speaker 4: of say the sixties, seventies, and eighties, by the mid nineties,

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Speaker 4: it had become dysfunctional. And now you look back at that, go,

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Speaker 4: oh no, no, that was great compared to where we

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Speaker 4: are now. And everybody adhered to a code of at

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Speaker 4: least public behavior. And the big thing is they just

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Speaker 4: were not as stupid. You know, the American voter in

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Speaker 4: Republican States was not in the business of finding the

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Speaker 4: stupidest person, which they've now succeeded at. And here's the decline.

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Speaker 4: You can measure the decline this way. Okay, here's this

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Speaker 4: Oklahoma senator who is, you know, challenging somebody to a

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Speaker 4: fistfight in a hearing. When I was there, the Oklahoma

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Speaker 4: senator was a Yale man who was of course secretly gay,

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Speaker 4: and had this entourage of very very attractive young male

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Speaker 4: staffers around him, and a Democrat by the way, So

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Speaker 4: all of those things, right, you had a gay Yale

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Speaker 4: Democrat senator from Oklahoma when I was there, And now

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Speaker 4: that you have this, and you just couldn't ask for

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Speaker 4: a more dramatic illustration just in that way of what

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Speaker 4: it's become. And it's ridiculous, you know, and it's pathetic,

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Speaker 4: and it's and right by the way, right across the street.

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Speaker 4: You have every right to the same feelings if you

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Speaker 4: ever worked in the Supreme Court of the United States,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you were a Supreme Court clerk in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen nineties and really you know, up into the

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Speaker 4: beginning of the twenty first century, you had a right

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Speaker 4: to an air of pride, you know about what you'd done.

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Speaker 4: And I have to say, you know, of all the

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Speaker 4: intro items someone can have, I remember meeting a guy

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Speaker 4: at a New York party a minute after someone whispered

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Speaker 4: to me he was a Supreme Court clerk, and instantaneously

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Speaker 4: changed like, oh my god, I just immediately changed me completely,

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Speaker 4: and I like, oh my god, there's someone really smart here.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, you know, and I was like I was

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Speaker 4: kind of intimidated like, Okay, I have to be really

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Speaker 4: careful now when I talk to him. You know, that

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Speaker 4: currency has been completely destroyed, and so you know, by

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Speaker 4: the Clarence Thomas Supreme Court and the John Roberts Supreme Court,

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Speaker 4: I think it's kind of hopeless. I don't expect those

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Speaker 4: institutions to probably ever recover because Republicanism is just on

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Speaker 4: a one way street to stupidity. They've arrived there and

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Speaker 4: there's no way out. Once you're living in stupidity, there

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Speaker 4: is no way out.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about that Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: This week, the Supreme Court decided that they were going

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Speaker 1: to create an ethics code that was.

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Speaker 2: With no enforcement. I mean, what's your hot take on that.

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Speaker 4: My take on that is it's a good thing, and

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Speaker 4: so it's not everything, and it's not the best thing,

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Speaker 4: but you went from nothing to something. And that's my

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Speaker 4: experience in government is that you take those wins, you know,

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Speaker 4: we call them wins, but you have to think of it,

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Speaker 4: you know, as a eighteen inning baseball game, you know,

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Speaker 4: and if something good happens in the third inning, good,

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Speaker 4: you know, you know it's not over. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: more to do. I recognize how the coverage has come

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Speaker 4: to the point where the very first thing said about

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Speaker 4: it was there's no enforcements. And that's a fair point,

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Speaker 4: you know, And unfortunately, the only enforcement on Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: justices has always been impeachment. That's the only enforcement, and

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Speaker 4: it's an extremely heavy mechanism to try to use, and

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Speaker 4: you need the two thirds vote, and so, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's never happened. But by the way, it has happened

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Speaker 4: multiple times for federal judges. Routinely, the United States Senate

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Speaker 4: impeaches and removes from office federal judges, and it happens

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Speaker 4: with remarkably low visibility.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: I remember in the nineties we had this you know,

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Speaker 4: judicial impeachment trial going on in the Senate, and we

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Speaker 4: would do it for like, you know, an hour a day,

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Speaker 4: you know, for over over, like it took about a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks, and you'd forget about it, you know,

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Speaker 4: but you'd realize, oh, no, we don't have the floor

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Speaker 4: for the tax bill from ten to eleven am because

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Speaker 4: they're impeaching a federal judge.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Remember, not, you know, And so, which is, by the way,

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Speaker 3: is the way it should be.

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Speaker 4: I wish those things were taken as a more routine

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Speaker 4: and likely outcome to human behavior is that, of course

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Speaker 4: you're going to have to impeach some So that's the problem,

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Speaker 4: is the enforcement part of it.

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Speaker 3: But look, it is absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Going to change Clarence of Thomas's behavior somewhat. But the

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Speaker 4: trouble and the problem there is, of course he's already

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Speaker 4: fully corrupted, so it doesn't matter like if he does

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Speaker 4: everything right from this day forward. He's fully corrupted. He's

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Speaker 4: taken hundreds of thousands of dollars directly in effect in cash,

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Speaker 4: you know, in this loan to purchase this thing, this

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Speaker 4: you know, rolling home of his and then you don't

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Speaker 4: have to pay back the loan. That's not a loan.

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Speaker 4: You know that somebody just gave you cash and you

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Speaker 4: took it, and it gave you cash only because you're

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Speaker 4: a Supreme Court justice. That person only met you because

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Speaker 4: you're a Supreme Court justice. It's something. Though I liked

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Speaker 4: a bunch of things about those rules. I also was

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Speaker 4: highly amused at the section that the Chief Justice wrote

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Speaker 4: specifically to allow his wife to make nine million dollars

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Speaker 4: a year from law firms. It appear before the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 4: and let's just remember, these are all challenges that have

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Speaker 4: occurred because of progress. When the Founders were creating the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court, there wasn't a wife in Washington who had

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Speaker 4: a job, and every Supreme Court justice was supposed to

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Speaker 4: be a man forever, and none of their wives were

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Speaker 4: ever supposed to work. So there was never supposed to

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Speaker 4: be a Jinny Thomas problem or the Chief Justice's wife problem.

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Speaker 4: None of those problems were supposed to exist, and so

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Speaker 4: we have a governmental structure that doesn't know how to

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Speaker 4: deal with those problems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because this Supreme Court is quite obsessed

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Speaker 1: with this originalism, this idea that you can't make gun laws.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, brewin last semester, and now we have Rhini,

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Speaker 1: which is the idea that there was this sort of

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Speaker 1: textualism that if domestic violence didn't exist when the Founders

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Speaker 1: are at the Constitution, because it didn't, maybe you should

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Speaker 1: be able to have a gun, and even if you

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Speaker 1: are in trouble for dovests.

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Speaker 2: So this idea is kind of dovetails, right.

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Speaker 4: The more I reflect on the Founders and what they did,

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Speaker 4: the more I see it as not terribly visionary, but

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Speaker 4: in fact terribly imprisoned in its moment, And I have

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Speaker 4: to say, I think they'd all be shocked if they

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Speaker 4: came back and they said, you're kidding me. You're paying

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Speaker 4: attention to us two hundred years later. That's crazy. We

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Speaker 4: didn't know about airplanes or you know, nuclear weapons, or

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Speaker 4: anti trust, like no one had ever even thought of

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Speaker 4: anti trust then, you know, so I think they'd quite

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Speaker 4: reasonably be shocked that anyone was paying attention to it

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Speaker 4: and treating.

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Speaker 3: It like it's some divine work.

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Speaker 2: Bible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the Ten Commandments, you know.

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Speaker 4: And in fact, the proper way to approach justice is justice,

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Speaker 4: you know, the principle guiding my Supreme Court opinion is justice.

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Speaker 4: I think it is just that the following things happen,

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Speaker 4: the idea that like no, no, no, I've got to

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Speaker 4: find I've got to f and somebody way back there,

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Speaker 4: preferably in English common law in sixteen twelve, you know,

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Speaker 4: And if I'm lucky, I can cite a legal source

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Speaker 4: from England in sixteen twelve who was not a witch prosecutor,

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Speaker 4: which is of course what they did cite in the

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Speaker 4: crazy abortion decision. They cited two guys from England who

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Speaker 4: were prosecutors of witches who strongly believed in and got

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Speaker 4: the death penalty for witches. They cited them as legal authorities.

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Speaker 4: Now that's madness, you know, that's Alito clerks being utterly

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Speaker 4: insane and uneducated, like shockingly uneducated. And so it's a

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Speaker 4: ludicrous pursuit that they're in when the guiding principle of

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Speaker 4: every Supreme Court opinion should simply be justice.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because one of the things I think about

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Speaker 1: is this lie that this was about states, right said

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Speaker 1: overturning Row was really bringing abortion back to the States.

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Speaker 1: You're seeing these arguments with the metha pristone with the

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Speaker 1: abortion pills that by allowing it to stay on the market.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the Comstock Act because that,

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Speaker 1: I think is the next Republican play when it comes

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Speaker 1: to abortion, despite the fact that they cannot stop losing

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Speaker 1: on this topic, which is so amazing to me, but

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Speaker 1: they seem not to care. So I'm curious in your mind,

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Speaker 1: like this disconnect between having wildly unpopular ideas and just

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Speaker 1: keeping going with them. I mean, is that because Republican

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Speaker 1: Party is hostage to its base or am I missing something?

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Speaker 4: It's because you have Republicans in office now whose entire

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Speaker 4: lives were consumed with the abortion debate. You know, these

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Speaker 4: forty year old, forty something Republican office holders and state legislatures.

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Speaker 4: They were born into a Republicanism that was publicly opposed

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Speaker 4: to roe versus Way. The Republicans who started that crusade

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Speaker 4: started it based on this little slice of pulling that

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Speaker 4: they found owned. You know, in Ronald Reagan's early polling

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Speaker 4: that indicated there was a band the time that looked

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Speaker 4: like it might be as much as three or four

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Speaker 4: percent who were single issue voters who would vote for

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Speaker 4: anyone who said I want to get rid of roe

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Speaker 4: versus Wade. That's the reason it entered the Republican platform.

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Speaker 4: They wasn't in it before they found it in polling.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: The older people who did this didn't believe it. They

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Speaker 4: did it in a completely cynical way, and they were

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Speaker 4: very happy with it because they believed that roe versus

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Speaker 4: Wade was the law of the land. It was going

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Speaker 4: to stay that way forever. Therefore, we can fundraise on

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Speaker 4: this forever, and we can command the loyalty of this

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Speaker 4: voting block, the anti abortion voting block, forever, and will

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Speaker 4: never have to deliver on it because the Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: has taken care of it. And by the way it

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Speaker 4: worked in a similar way on the Democratic side, the

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Speaker 4: Democratic Party didn't start as the pro Row versus Wade party.

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Speaker 4: They were positioned into that because of the what the

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Speaker 4: Republican Party choice was, which was to be anti Roe

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Speaker 4: versus Way. And so the Democratic Party was fundraising on

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Speaker 4: it and asking for your vote on it, and they

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Speaker 4: believe they were going to be able to do this

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Speaker 4: forever because Roe versus Way was going to last forever.

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Speaker 4: Don't be surprised if you are, you know, baptizing children

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Speaker 4: into this belief that when they're forty years old and

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Speaker 4: they're working in state legislatures in Oklahoma and Indiana, don't

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Speaker 4: be surprised if they actually believe the thing you were

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Speaker 4: selling to them. That's part of your problem is that

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Speaker 4: there's a bunch of these Texas legislators and Oklahoma legislators

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Speaker 4: and Indiana legislators who believe this stuff and are now

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Speaker 4: stuck with it, and they live in this isolated way

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Speaker 4: in their districts, in their legislative districts where they're fully protected.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're not going to lose their jobs because

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Speaker 4: they're trying to ban abortion. None of them are, and

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Speaker 4: so that thing is just going to keep happening in

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Speaker 4: the most right wing states. The tricky part is going

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Speaker 4: to be for governors of the states that aren't so

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Speaker 4: right wing on issues like this. If you look at

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Speaker 4: say Florida, where they're not so right wing on issues

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Speaker 4: like abortion, if you're running statewide there, you have to

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Speaker 4: be much more careful as a Republican on that issue.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about Florida because I feel

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Speaker 1: like what we're doing here is I have all these

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Speaker 1: theories and I just want you to tell me if

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Speaker 1: they make sense to you and if they're smart or

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Speaker 1: if I'm insane.

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Speaker 4: This is, of course, because I'm a well known expert

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Speaker 4: on Florida.

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Speaker 1: So Desander's running for president, decided that he was going

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Speaker 1: to make Florida a kind of lab of authoritarianism. Do

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Speaker 1: all the stuff that they had talked about in Republican primaries,

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Speaker 1: right book banning, where woke goes to die, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of those kind of sound bites turned into legislation

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Speaker 1: because he had a very right wing legislative body state legislature,

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Speaker 1: so he could really go crazy. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: this has actually scared voters and other states? I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think it's had an effect or do you

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Speaker 1: think it exists in a vacuum.

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Speaker 4: I think it didn't work, as the one thing I'm

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Speaker 4: sure of, because he wasn't doing it. He didn't care

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Speaker 4: about Florida.

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Speaker 3: He was doing it.

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Speaker 4: For Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. He was doing

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Speaker 4: it for Republican primary voters who he had a right

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Speaker 4: to believe were crazy, and he wanted to sound as

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Speaker 4: crazy as they are. And it just hasn't worked. And

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Speaker 4: what's really funny about how much it hasn't worked is

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Speaker 4: the latest polling that I just happened to see this

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Speaker 4: morning on the state of Florida shows Donald Trump at

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Speaker 4: sixty percent and Dessantus going down. He's gone down below

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Speaker 4: where he was before, so he's down around twenty or

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Speaker 4: so right, So he's in a Florida primary. He will

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Speaker 4: get absolutely destroyed if he's still a candidate. And the

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Speaker 4: mission of kind of presidential candidates on their way to

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Speaker 4: losing primaries always been make sure you get out before

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Speaker 4: your state you know, which you know to Scott for example,

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Speaker 4: has done, but make sure you get out before your state,

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Speaker 4: because what you don't want to do is have someone

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Speaker 4: come into your state and beat you in the presidential

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Speaker 4: primary in your state. And we could all just hope

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Speaker 4: that Ron de Santis hasn't heard that rule so that

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Speaker 4: he actually does stay in there for this incredible rebuke

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Speaker 4: that he would get right now, right now today, that

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Speaker 4: he would get from Florida voters. So it didn't work

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Speaker 4: with national Republican primary voters, and it didn't work in Florida.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump, who never tried to ban any books, is

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Speaker 4: crushing him in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's some real incredible sorcery there. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that Republicans have so overstepped on these cultural war issues

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Speaker 1: that they.

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Speaker 2: Will give it up? Or do you think, like abortion,

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Speaker 2: they're just addicted to bad ideas.

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Speaker 4: No, I think with abortion, you know, Trump's not going

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Speaker 4: to play it and hasn't played it at all, you know,

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Speaker 4: the way these other people play it.

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Speaker 3: He's just going to do this. He's gonna he takes.

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Speaker 4: It to a different level of stupidity, which is to say,

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Speaker 4: you know, just to elect me president and I will

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Speaker 4: figure out the best formula for you know, who should

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Speaker 4: get an abortion and Republican voters apparently are stupid enough

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Speaker 4: to go with that. But he's playing it much softer than,

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Speaker 4: you know, than any of the others who always believed,

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Speaker 4: you know, you had to play it really hardcore, including

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Speaker 4: George W. Bush, you know, George W.

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Speaker 3: Bush.

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Speaker 4: When John McCain was running against him, John McCain was

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Speaker 4: asked on the bus, you know, well, what if your

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Speaker 4: daughter was pregnant, and McCain gave a human answer, he said, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, we would have a family discussion about that.

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Speaker 4: You know, well that obviously includes the possibility of an

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Speaker 4: abortion right. So that answer lasted about, you know, twenty

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Speaker 4: four hours because the Bush people just beat him to

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Speaker 4: death on it, and he had to then McCain had

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Speaker 4: to come out and say no.

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Speaker 3: Of course, of course there'd be absolutely no abortion.

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Speaker 4: You know, he had to be beaten back, you know,

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Speaker 4: into that corner because Bush was so hardcore on abortion,

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Speaker 4: and so Trump is actually, you know, the softest one

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Speaker 4: they've had on abortion, and it turns out the most effective,

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Speaker 4: you know, because he's the guy who delivered to you

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Speaker 4: the Supreme Court that could do this.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. This is so good, It really

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you.

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Speaker 4: I only wish the listeners could see your background. It's

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Speaker 4: so hard to concentrate because I'm just sitting here reading

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Speaker 4: book titles.

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Speaker 3: You know, That's all I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Your vision is so good.

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Speaker 1: Congressman Wilie Nickel represents North Carolina's third district. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Representative nicol Thanks, I'm so glad to be with you.

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Speaker 1: So first we're going to talk about jerry mandering. You

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Speaker 1: are a member of Congress from the great state of

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. February twenty twenty two, North Carolina Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: blocked the Republican led state North Carolina State Legislature's unconstitutional

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Speaker 1: partisan gerrymander of North Carolina maps, putting in place interim

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Speaker 1: maps for the twenty twenty two election cycle in a

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Speaker 1: fifty to fifty purple state. There was a huge win

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Speaker 1: for voters in North Carolina. Now fast forward and tell

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Speaker 1: us where we are now.

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Speaker 6: Like you said, our Supreme Court last year drew fair

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Speaker 6: you know maps for we're a fifty to fifty state.

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Speaker 3: They drew a map that would elect.

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Speaker 6: Seven Republicans, six Democrats, and one seat that could have

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Speaker 6: gone either way. A true fifty to fifty seat that

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Speaker 6: was the seat that I won in the last election.

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Speaker 6: We were one of just six Republican seats that we

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Speaker 6: flipped in the last cycle. Now, obviously, you know, the

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Speaker 6: state wide results weren't as good as we needed them

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Speaker 6: to be. We lost two Supreme Court seats and now

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Speaker 6: it's a five to two Republican court. And the Republican

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Speaker 6: on our court are just total partisan hacks, so we

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Speaker 6: expect no relief from them on what is a totally

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Speaker 6: egregious and horrible Republican gerrymander that now we'll elect ten Republicans,

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Speaker 6: three Democrats, and one seat that's pretty pink but could

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Speaker 6: stay in our column. This is not fair. I mean,

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Speaker 6: the voters get totally screwed when you have this kind

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Speaker 6: of extreme parties and jerrymandering.

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Speaker 2: How can you push back on this? What can you do?

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Speaker 2: Where are we here?

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Speaker 6: There will be lawsuits. We've been successful around the South

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Speaker 6: with these racial gerrymandering cases. There certainly was extreme racial

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Speaker 6: gerrymandering going on with these these Republican maps, so you

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Speaker 6: know there will be litigation.

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Speaker 3: We're hopeful that it's successful and.

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Speaker 6: We keep our current seven to seven map in place,

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Speaker 6: but you know, it's an uphill battle and the lawyers

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Speaker 6: have it. Now, my takeaway from all of this as

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Speaker 6: I'm here in Congress is you have so few seats

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Speaker 6: where voters have a real choice in November for Congress,

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Speaker 6: and you know, it's really it's probably down to just

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Speaker 6: thirty out of four hundred and thirty five seats that

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Speaker 6: could that could go either way.

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Speaker 3: The rest are just a total foregone conclusion.

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Speaker 6: And that's why we have such a just dumpster fire

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Speaker 6: of chaos and confusion here in Congress because you know,

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Speaker 6: the Republicans could just care less. They are governing for

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Speaker 6: their Republican primary in their base and we're not getting

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Speaker 6: anything done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk for a minute about this, because the

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Speaker 1: partisan jerrymander is really destructive in ways that I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't necessarily understand. For example, we

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Speaker 1: see it right now. I mean with this Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: I don't think this is as true for Democrats. But

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Speaker 1: then again, I.

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Speaker 2: Am an opinion columnist and that is my opinion.

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Speaker 1: But the Republican Party is really you know, Chip Roy

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Speaker 1: and Matt Gates are pretty much calling the shots over there.

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Speaker 6: A one thousand percent. It's the tail wagging the dog

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Speaker 6: they're just really stupid with their approach to this. I mean,

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Speaker 6: if you game it out, you can get together, you

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Speaker 6: settle your differences privately. That's how I understood that Nancy

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Speaker 6: Pelosi ran things in the last Congress. We've moved tons

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Speaker 6: of bills, we moved legislation. We didn't have all this,

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Speaker 6: you know, chaos and confusion and constant literally fighting. I mean,

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Speaker 6: that's what we saw this week was literally fighting between

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Speaker 6: Republicans spilling out into public view. But if their publems

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Speaker 6: were smart, they would work together and you know, move

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Speaker 6: a bill through the House and negotiate with the Senate

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Speaker 6: and take half a loaf. But they're not even doing that.

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Speaker 6: They can't even pass their own stupid messaging bills for

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Speaker 6: the budget, which we continue to see these bills that

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Speaker 6: they just can't get a majority of Republicans. It's either

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Speaker 6: too far to the left or too far to the

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Speaker 6: right in terms of Republican stuff, and we just we're

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Speaker 6: just not getting done. And that's a direct result of

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Speaker 6: extreme parties and jerrymandering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an interesting problem for Republicans. We keep

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Speaker 1: seeing Johnson bring bills the floor and not have the votes.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi never had that problem.

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Speaker 6: Mike Johnson and Kevin McCarthy, they're horrible vote counters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's my lesson.

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Speaker 6: Don't bring the bills to the floor unless you've got

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Speaker 6: the votes.

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Speaker 2: They passed this CR. It's a clean CR.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't it gets It's this tiered thing which

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Speaker 1: is basically really nothing right. It's some expire a month

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Speaker 1: before the other ones. I mean, it's just it's sort

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Speaker 1: of some way to distract the far right and get

438
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: him to not have lost his job yet Mike Johnson.

439
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: But ultimately even I mean, you saw, you know, this pass,

440
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 1: but like once they start having to really negotiate, they're

441
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: not going to be able to do it. And you know,

442
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: Republicans who are supposedly such great friends to Israel, they

443
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 1: did not prove any aid to Israel. They did not

444
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: prove any aid to Ukraine. So none of that stuff

445
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: happened at all.

446
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 6: People should be pissed off. I had my staff compile

447
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 6: the bills that have been signed into law. We're up

448
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 6: to twenty one. There is nothing that really helps people.

449
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 6: We raise the dead ceiling. We've done two crs and

450
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 6: the rest. You know, you're talking about renaming a VA

451
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 6: clinic or a great Marine.

452
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 2: Coin or a post office.

453
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, but the least productive Congress now since

454
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 6: the Great Depression at this stage. But you know, fixing

455
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 6: jerry mandering is would make this place work a lot better.

456
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 6: And as you know, people look at maps that for

457
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 6: North Carolina, you know, will will guarantee three maybe four

458
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 6: seats that clip from one part to the other just

459
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 6: with with the drawing of a few lines. You know,

460
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 6: it's something that we got to fix, and we can

461
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 6: do it. And I think when I talk about all

462
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 6: the stuff that's happening is Washington, it's it's hard to

463
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 6: find a lot of hope in things. But the place

464
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 6: I find hope is in the House and the people

465
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 6: I serve with. And you know, I think people listening

466
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 6: should know that Keem Jeffries is going to be the

467
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 6: next Speaker of the House. We are going to take

468
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 6: back the House in the next Congress because of all

469
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 6: the crazy stuff that the Republicans are doing where.

470
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: They just show their audit to govern.

471
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 6: But we want to fix maps, we take back the House,

472
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 6: we pass non parts and independent redistricting on a nationwide level.

473
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 6: We can do that in Congress and in the Senate,

474
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 6: we just got a nuke the filibuster and get fifty

475
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 6: votes on a bill that that does just that. That's

476
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 6: that's the best way we'll be able to do it.

477
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike Johnson, he looks more like Paul Ryan, but

478
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: his heart seems very much like Sidney Powell. How do

479
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: you have that person as a Speaker of the House.

480
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 6: I think it was just sort of a situation where

481
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 6: they just needed someone who could get you know, two

482
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 6: hundred and eighteen votes from the Republican conference and they

483
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 6: were just tired after three weeks.

484
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 3: I think he's in charge, you know.

485
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 6: I think it's maybe more, maybe more of a collaborative

486
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 6: effort among other Republican leaders. So I'm not sure, you know,

487
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 6: how much a leeway he has to really do his

488
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 6: own thing. So I think that's kind of my question.

489
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 6: I don't know the answer. But the thing that makes

490
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 6: sense is he is working with Democrats in the Senate

491
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 6: and in the House and Republicans in the Senate who

492
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 6: want to do the things that the American people think

493
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 6: we ought to be doing. Supporting Israel, supporting Ukraine, you know,

494
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 6: secure in the border, those are things that we're talking about.

495
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: So Republicans had to get Democratic votes to pass a CR.

496
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: In fact, they got more Democratic votes and Republican votes.

497
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: That does not bode well for the future for this

498
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: party if they can't whip their own votes right.

499
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 6: And this isn't something that should be controversial. It's literally

500
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 6: just keeping the lights on with the federal government. So no,

501
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 6: I mean, the question I have I think anybody watching

502
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 6: Congress is what's going to give? You know, something's got

503
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 6: to give because the met gates and you know, Freedom Caucus,

504
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 6: you know, far right crazies aren't going to stop and

505
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 6: they're not going to work with with the majority of Republicans.

506
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 6: So the only alternative is working with Democrats on things

507
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 6: that a majority of the Republican conference supports. And that's

508
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 6: very controversial. You know, it's crazy that that's the case,

509
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 6: but you know, that's what we're talking about is probably

510
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 6: just having bills that are on suspension so this bench

511
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 6: county reads two thirds two hundred ninety votes. They don't

512
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 6: have to pass a rule. They can just bring anything

513
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 6: to the floor to get two ninety and that's what

514
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 6: we did for the CR and I'm expecting that that's

515
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 6: probably what we're going to do with so much of

516
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 6: this stuff. It's they're going to have maybe a bare

517
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 6: majority of Republicans and all the Democrats to get basic

518
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 6: things done.

519
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: I mean, this is just so crazy.

520
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 1: I was listening to I'm not going to plug another podcast,

521
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: but it was actually quite interesting, and they were talking

522
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: about how Mike Johnson has this Christian nationalist flag, this

523
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: flag that is associated a lot with Christian nationalism. It's

524
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: a white flag with a tree on it. And I'm wondering,

525
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: you have to serve in Congress with these people. Mike

526
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: Johnson is much more genteel than a Marjorie Taylor Green

527
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: or Lauren Boeper or a mad I mean, Matt Gates

528
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: is a little bit genteel too, But these people, you know,

529
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: they want to destroy the government, and they have some

530
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: very out of line beliefs that are, you know, not

531
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: shared by most of the country.

532
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: I mean, is it hard to just go to work

533
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: with these people.

534
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 6: It's a pretty goofy group. It's the same clown car

535
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 6: as before, just a different driver. I think the people

536
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 6: who send us here expect us to get things done

537
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 6: and build those relationships, and you know, I work really

538
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 6: hard to build personal relationships with the Republicans who are

539
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 6: willing to work across the island. There certainly are some there.

540
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 6: I'm part of the problem Solver's Caucus Democrats and Republicans.

541
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 6: You know, we meet usually once a week to talk

542
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 6: about biparties and legislation hasn't been a lot of it.

543
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 6: But I see it as my job to try to

544
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 6: build those relationships so that when we have to do

545
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 6: things like passing a cr or passing a budget or

546
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 6: do an aid for Israel, there's some level of trust.

547
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 6: But it's really tough, especially when you look at their

548
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 6: Twitter feeds and you look at the stuff that they

549
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 6: say when they're out out of Congress, because it's really

550
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 6: dangerous and really out of the mainstream. But you know,

551
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 6: I think what we're seeing is people are standing up

552
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 6: to this across the country. You know, we saw in Ohio,

553
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 6: you know, huge numbers of people coming out for women's riots.

554
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 6: We're going to continue to see that play out, and

555
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 6: we're just on the right side of these issues and

556
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 6: that's ultimately going to get through to the voters.

557
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: Why do you.

558
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: Think that North Carolina has been such a tough nut

559
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: for Democrats to crack? We saw Georgia flip blue before

560
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: North Carolina.

561
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that's wild.

562
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 6: North Carolina is the only state I think people should

563
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 6: be talking about this next election. It's the state that

564
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 6: Trump won by the smallest amount, and it's trending our way,

565
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 6: you know, it's it is moving every election cycle, you know,

566
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 6: is getting better and better for Democrats state. Why then

567
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 6: they can jerrymander districts and they can do it in

568
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 6: a brutally affective way, but they can't jerry manager the state.

569
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 6: We're going to have the most competitive governors race in

570
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 6: the country. Are great Attorney General Josh Stein running against

571
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 6: someone that makes Mega Mike and the Republicans look tame

572
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 6: in comparison. Are Tenega owner Mark Robinson. He's just nuts.

573
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 6: And it's the state that Biden's got to win. And

574
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 6: from all that, you know, every every indication we have,

575
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 6: I've talked about it with with Biden myself. You know,

576
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 6: they're going to be all in on North Carolina because

577
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 6: they've got to win the state if he's going to

578
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 6: go back to Washington. So you know, we will see

579
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 6: a ton of spending. I think that matters. I think

580
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 6: you know, you're talking about other you know, elections in

581
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 6: the past. Obama won at the first time, didn't make

582
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 6: the big investments in North Carolina. The second time around

583
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 6: became really close. You know, that's one I think you

584
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 6: talked to the people who are part of that campaign.

585
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 6: I was, you know, a staffer, and you know they'll

586
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 6: tell you, yeah, if we if we'd done more in

587
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 6: North Carolina, we probably could have gotten there. And you know,

588
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 6: Hillary was close, Biden was very close. And you know,

589
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 6: I think on the state level, this stuff like jerrymandering.

590
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 6: You know, we have a Republican super majority in the

591
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 6: legislature that's taken away women's rights, defunding public education, and

592
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 6: those things will matter. Bathroom bill, yeah, absolutely, and I

593
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 6: mean they continue to attack the LGBTQ community in just

594
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 6: horrible ways that all will matter in North Carolina. You know,

595
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 6: in addition to the national issue of literally protecting democracy.

596
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 6: I mean that's the choice, you know, democracy or not.

597
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 6: With Trump and Biden.

598
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: The thing I'm so struck by, and Dave Weigall from

599
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: Semaphore wrote a really smart piece about this. The Republicans

600
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: really went crazy on social issues in a way that

601
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: Americans don't want. And we saw that in Kentucky, like

602
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: people don't want the government tracking women's periods.

603
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 6: My approach is people just want people solving problems. That

604
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 6: they're tired of the demonizing groups attacking the LGBT community.

605
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 6: And that was my takeaway too with the Kentucky race.

606
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 6: You know, they're just they're tired of it. They want

607
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 6: both people focused on protecting rights, not taking them away.

608
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 6: And you know that's I think a winning message.

609
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so tell me what it looks like for you

610
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: now in North Carolina, this jerry mander will go up

611
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: the courts. I was pleasantly surprised that this very conservative

612
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: Supreme Court did manage to slap back at Alabama. So

613
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: it does seem like they are interested in I mean, shockingly,

614
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: they don't seem like they are letting these right wing

615
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: legislators have their way, or at least to a certain extent.

616
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, the courts.

617
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 6: We're waiting on the courts to wane before we make

618
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 6: any choices. The district with my number on it went

619
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 6: from an R plus two to an R plus eighteen.

620
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 6: So that's just totally unwinnable for a Democrat. It's off

621
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 6: the chart in terms of Democrats. Who ever came close

622
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 6: to winning a seat like that, so it's an unwinnable seat.

623
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: But you know, I think there's good legal arguments.

624
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 6: And I just have this hope as I kind of

625
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 6: sit back here in Congress and watch the dumpster fire

626
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 6: that is the Republican Conference, and I just have to

627
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 6: think that John Roberts is sitting across the street at

628
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court watching it, and if he gets a

629
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 6: map in front of him that's North Carolina, that's a

630
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 6: really horrible jerrymander for Republicans, and then New York that

631
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 6: could be a really horrible jerrymander for Democrats that's you know,

632
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 6: in control, and he takes them together and maybe we

633
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 6: finally get a standard for how bad you can screw

634
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 6: democracy with these maps. That's that's my own hope. I

635
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 6: think it makes sense in a lot of ways. But

636
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 6: the lawyers, you know, are much more focused on, you know,

637
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 6: very specific stuff with with racial gerrymandering, and we've had

638
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 6: some success.

639
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: There, so interesting.

640
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: I really appreciate getting to talk to you about this.

641
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: It's such an important issue, and I hope that the

642
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: courts break your way.

643
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 3: Thanks anytime. I'm glad to talk, excited to get to

644
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: talk with you here.

645
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 6: Love love following you on Twitter as well, so you

646
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 6: usually once a month did you tweet something? And it's

647
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 6: like it's like that just made my day? So thank

648
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 6: you for that.

649
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: Well, thank you.

650
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: Harry Littman is a former US attorney and host of

651
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: the podcast Talking Feds. Hi, Harry Man, Welcome to Fast Politics.

652
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 5: I'm Alli don Fast. Welcome to Talking Feds and another

653
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 5: politics long mashup. I'm looking forward to being educated on

654
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 5: some important political questions that kind of escape me.

655
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: I am looking forward to asking you the question you

656
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: never get asked, will Donald Trump go to jail?

657
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 5: I never get asked.

658
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: That, never, ever, ever, certainly not every day, multiple times

659
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: a day.

660
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 5: All Right, here's a scoop. Here's a scoop on Fast

661
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 5: Time with Mully Young Fast. You know I think he will.

662
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 5: It's funny because you know, you and I lived through Watergate.

663
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 5: You can imagine some grand resolution of this national nightmare

664
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 5: like them that would just get him the hell off

665
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 5: the stage and keep him out of jail. But because

666
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 5: of the real obsession with treating everyone alike, I think

667
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 5: the chance for that has passed the chance for someone

668
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 5: like who would it be Biden or possibly Garland to

669
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 5: make that kind of and resolution as Ford did, or

670
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 5: arguably as they did with Agnew He's now specifically in

671
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 5: the stocks for in Georgia, where he can't pardon himself

672
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 5: in New York and not to mention the federal system.

673
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 5: And I'm going to turn this on you pretty soon.

674
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 5: But you know, assuming he doesn't get elected. So I

675
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 5: actually think the possibility that would have been concrete for him,

676
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 5: you know, notwithstanding the bloodlust that many people feel for

677
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 5: him staying out of jail, because of the insistence that

678
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 5: it be this sort of regular, routine process. I think

679
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 5: that a train has started that can't stop. It might

680
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 5: be paused for he to win the presidency. I think

681
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 5: he could make the federal cases stand down, and probably

682
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court would put a pause on the state cases,

683
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 5: but just a pause now, you know. So it might

684
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 5: depend on his longevity. But yeah, I actually think he's

685
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 5: going to jail, you know, bad hair and lack of

686
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 5: privacy and all I do.

687
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think clearly the goal here is

688
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 1: to beat back these indictments, right, to try to run

689
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: out the clock, win reelection and parton himself or you know,

690
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 1: do whatever he can.

691
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 5: Well, okay, although I don't think he can parton it,

692
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 5: but it doesn't matter because the federal ones will still

693
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 5: be going on. He can make him stop. He can

694
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 5: just announce to DOJ stop this. It's still on appeal,

695
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 5: but he'll have trouble on the state side. And of

696
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 5: course that's the big if, you know, were he to win.

697
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 5: It's been a time for people who are concerned about

698
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 5: his getting the reins again when he's he's promised basically

699
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 5: to impose fascist rule and shred the constitution. You know,

700
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 5: where there are all kinds of nervousness at the among

701
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 5: Biden's supporters. Do you credit the polls that have it

702
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 5: as a toss up at best? And are you I'm

703
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 5: going to ask your personal view, but your political analysis

704
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 5: of you know, there are a lot of pretty senior

705
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 5: voices actually telling Biden this is the time to step aside,

706
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 5: let someone else lead the ticket. How do you sort

707
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 5: of handicap the chances of Trump's winning, assuming Biden and

708
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 5: he are the matchup.

709
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: So I'm going to push back on that and.

710
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 5: Say I'm no fair. Okay, go ahead.

711
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: And say, actually, there are not that many voices. Okay,

712
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: there's a feeling. I think in the mainstream media people

713
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: would like to see a primary, but you never have

714
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: a primary for an incumbent president.

715
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: That's not how we do it. So the idea that

716
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: we're going to have.

717
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: A primary because the guy is old is crazy. Okay,

718
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 1: like you're going to give up incumbency because some people

719
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: think he's old. It's just nods. I would push back

720
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: on that, and then I would say the fact that

721
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: there has not been a serious primary, that the only

722
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: person that could be found to run against him is

723
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: Dean whatever his name is from Poxatawny, Pennsylvania. No, actually

724
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: he's from Minnesota. But you know, he's a rich guy,

725
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: rich mediocre white guy who used to work in gelato.

726
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I love gelato.

727
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 5: Don't get me wrong, you gelato fans don't write in Okay,

728
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 5: this is.

729
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: In no way an indictment on gelato. I mean it's

730
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: like what I eat every day. Eighty percent of my

731
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: diet is gelato. But I'm here to tell you that

732
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: that guy is not a real serious political player, and

733
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: he's been on this age thing forever. He tried to

734
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: take down Nancy Pelosi. Ask him how well that went?

735
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: Not that well?

736
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 5: I'm so glad to hear that. And I'll just add,

737
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 5: you know, there's objective in disha of how well hit,

738
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 5: you know, how strong this record is. Our current podcast

739
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 5: is with Paul Krugman, Stephanie Rule, Dean Baker. You know,

740
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 5: the economic benchmarks are off the chart. And also there's

741
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 5: a history of incumbents in the year before looking kind

742
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 5: of vulnerable.

743
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: Obama Reagan. They told Reagan he was too old to run.

744
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: W yeah, W you know so.

745
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: And I would say that, you know, I don't think

746
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: that this is a statement on Biden. The other thing is,

747
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, Biden is in China. This is I would say, like,

748
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: this is one of the worst times geopolitically in my lifetime. Right.

749
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: We have just horrible, horrible stuff going on in much

750
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: of the world, and Biden is like this very normal

751
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: white guy, he's old.

752
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: He's the generic D.

753
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: And so when you look at this polling, the people

754
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: who do the best in all of these polls is

755
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: the generic D. If you were to think about like

756
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: people rallied behind him in the Democratic Party because he

757
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: was the generic D, you know, you didn't look at

758
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: him and think like this is you know, the most

759
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: liberal or even the most sort of cerebral you know,

760
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: he harkened back to another time when politicians kind of

761
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: disappeared behind the job, and you know, part of what

762
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: he ran on was this aggressive, boringness, and I think

763
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: it served him well and I think it will serve

764
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: him well again in twenty four.

765
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

766
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 5: You look at his bio. I mean, I think him

767
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 5: very much as a kitchen table democrat with certain progressive strains.

768
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 5: But you look at his bio and it feels like

769
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 5: he came of age, you know, fifteen minutes before the sixties,

770
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 5: and he's really the last of a previous generation of

771
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 5: basically fifties gray suit figures. There's a lot have to

772
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 5: be said for that, especially in the foreign policy world.

773
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 5: But I'm very very very very relieved to hear your

774
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 5: general analysis so I don't have to, you know, plan

775
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 5: on my move to New zeal.

776
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: Trump could still win. Anything could happen. But I just

777
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 2: feel like there's two parts. Right.

778
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: There's a mainstream media that wants to have a traditional

779
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: run up to a presidential.

780
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 5: Care what's a horse race, right, Yeah.

781
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: And I think some of that is because it's very

782
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: boring to have the same two people running against each

783
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: other again. Then I think part of it is that

784
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: Trump juiced our numbers, all of us. Trump was the

785
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: big media juicer, and he happened to destroy democracy, try

786
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: very hard to destroy democracy while it was doing it.

787
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: There's both anxiety and some wish fulfillment when it comes

788
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: to Trump. You know, people on the media side like

789
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: the numbers. Do they like the fascism?

790
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: I certainly hope not, but I think the numbers get

791
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: a little addictive.

792
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 1: All right, I want the TLDR on Georgia right now.

793
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: Fanny Willis is sort of wrapping everybody up right.

794
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: How high does this go?

795
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: Do you think this goes to Rudy? Do you think

796
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: this goes to Trump? Explain?

797
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 5: I see this as basically a six person in case

798
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 5: right now, the six would be and sort of four

799
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 5: level Trump, Meadows and Juliani, probably Eastman and Clark, and

800
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 5: then David Schaeffer, who's the most guilty of the Georgia elector.

801
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 5: So let me tell you what I mean. She's given

802
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 5: out these you know, flurry of clead deals, real sweetheart deals,

803
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 5: non custodial time deals. They're the flurry of others to

804
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 5: go because the general calculation given how she charged it is.

805
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 5: It's a very very expensive defense to make over half

806
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 5: a million maybe more, and the you know, they're looking

807
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 5: at really serious charges. So obviously Trump is the jewel

808
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 5: in the crown for her, and you don't offer a

809
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 5: deal to him, Juliani. I don't think you offer a

810
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 5: deal a because he's very culpable, and especially in Georgia,

811
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 5: he goes down and tells all kinds of horseshit about

812
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 5: Georgia to Ruby Moss and Chay Freeman. Plus he's a

813
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 5: disaster witness. You couldn't use him for anything anyway. And

814
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 5: then Mark Meadows at this point I think, has nowhere

815
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 5: to go with her. So I think those three are

816
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 5: really in the hot scene and when it comes to it,

817
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 5: very very expensive defense. I think Julianni's only sort of

818
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 5: play is to try to get Trump to fund it

819
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 5: as much as he can. Trump's going to give him,

820
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 5: you know, a fundraiser and Christmas I don't see much more.

821
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 5: But it's just a matter of time I think for

822
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 5: those three, and that push'll come to shove when a

823
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 5: new trial date is set, which could happen as soon

824
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 5: as December. First, the judge has is having a new gearing.

825
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 5: I got to say, I was perplexed that after being

826
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 5: ready to go in a week in one trial for everybody,

827
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 5: that Fannie Willis said two days ago it's going to

828
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 5: take till twenty twenty five, among other things. That takes

829
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 5: the immediate pressure off. If that's the stance she holds to,

830
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 5: others think that that's possible, but it hasn't been her

831
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 5: so far anyway. To me, the important triggering event will

832
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 5: be setting of a trial, same as it was for

833
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 5: Chesbro and Powle that got those others started. David Schaefer,

834
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 5: I think is toast also, but in a Georgia way.

835
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 5: Remember she's a Georgia elected DA and so Meadows and

836
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 5: Juliani and you know, I think you can say, Jeff Clark,

837
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 5: who what did he want to do? He wanted to

838
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 5: get the DOJ to lie and tell Georgia there was

839
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 5: fraud in the Georgia vote. She's, you know, going to

840
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: really exact a penalty for that. So I think you'll

841
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 5: see the electors plead out. You'll have that kind of package,

842
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 5: and the evidence is pretty strong, you know. I think, however,

843
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 5: once you get above, once you get to the Meadows

844
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 5: Giuliani Trump level. We already know. They haven't been offered

845
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 5: pleased so far, and they've been overtures to others. I

846
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 5: don't think they're gonna be so, whether it's you know,

847
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 5: by summer or by as she says twenty twenty five,

848
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 5: I think those three, at a minimum, probably with Schaeffer,

849
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 5: are sitting for trial. My best guess is Eastman and

850
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 5: Clark too, and my best guess they're going down.

851
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 2: But Trump No?

852
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 5: Trump?

853
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 3: Yes?

854
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: Why Trump? Y ass?

855
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 5: Because he's guilty, because the evident against against him is

856
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 5: very strong. Because the people who are going to cooperate,

857
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 5: the most valuable thing they can do is evidence against Trump,

858
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 5: like Jenna Ellis. You know, we know she's going to

859
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 5: provide that from a week ago. Now, why no, because

860
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 5: they're you know, it's Georgia, the purple list of states,

861
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 5: and the hope will be for some jury nullification person,

862
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 5: you know, pro Trump person, to have a hung jury.

863
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 5: I think an acquittals out of the question, and she'd

864
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 5: probably retry it. So with the caveat the asterisk that

865
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 5: if he becomes president, he's going to start an investigation

866
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 5: against her, there are ways that you know, Betts could

867
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 5: be off, But yeah, I think I they killed. He

868
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 5: will go down Molly before, you know, more assuredly than

869
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 5: the others, because he is the number one target here.

870
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 5: You can imagine a state of affairs where Meadows pleads

871
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 5: and testifies against Trump. You cannot imagine the reverse.

872
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 2: Right, that makes sense.

873
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: Meadows has been sort of walking this line where he's

874
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: kind of gives just enough but not enough to be

875
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: helpful everywhere except in Georgia.

876
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 2: Can you explain that.

877
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 5: He's got the best lawyers in the whole game here,

878
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 5: both is regular and his He's got us the guy

879
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 5: who does the writing, and it's just taught, and they've

880
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 5: been pretty adroid so far. You know, got him out

881
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 5: of the hot water with Congress, that was quite a feat.

882
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: Got him out of the hot water with Smith in

883
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 5: the January sixth case. He's not even a co conspirator,

884
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 5: he's not one of the six. He testifies, but not

885
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 5: with any kind of deal. That was quite a feat,

886
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 5: I thought also. And then he plays a big gambit

887
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 5: of trying to get removal in Full County. Here's where

888
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 5: I think he's going to hit the brick wall. And

889
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 5: at that point, you know he's I think he cannot

890
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 5: in this slam. Of course he's running make this last gate,

891
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 5: and he's going to sprawl badly. But I think I

892
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 5: think Fulton County is where he comes to and end.

893
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 5: And again he at that point, you know, might well

894
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 5: want to plead, But I don't think they're given for

895
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 5: a guy off his culpability. They're going to be giving out,

896
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 5: you know, these sort of non custodial sentences as they've

897
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 5: given to the crackpot lawyers. As Mike Pensmith put it

898
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 5: fifty years ago last month, your mother, Erica John is

899
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 5: not a joke. I mean, this is a really serious

900
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 5: question to you, Mollis, as a person to publish Fear

901
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 5: of Flying, How has that novel and that and you know,

902
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 5: and her kind of incandace and success at least then

903
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 5: with it shaped your life?

904
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 1: Well, I mean that is, you know, again an unknowable question,

905
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,720
Speaker 1: but certainly had a lot of advantages because my other success,

906
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: I mean the book it was published in nineteen seventy three.

907
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 5: Years ago right here that row.

908
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: Was passed and I was not born until nineteen seventy eight,

909
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: so I was negative five. But I do think it

910
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: changes the calculus of your life in innumerable ways. I

911
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: had tons of advantages that it would not have had.

912
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 5: But there's a downside. No, my mom was modestly famous.

913
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 5: She was a lawyer, a successful one, and a pioneer,

914
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 5: and you know, among other things, it made the question

915
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 5: of my becoming a lawyer both on everyone's lips and

916
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 5: also made it feel like I wouldn't really match that success.

917
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 5: And you know, I mean it's a complicated psychological situation

918
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 5: having such a successful mom.

919
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's still better than living in war

920
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: zone and there's a lot of real adversity in this world.

921
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: But yes, I mean, for sure it created complicated dynamics

922
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 1: in my life. But I don't think of myself as

923
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, I really was so lucky.

924
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 5: Was it fun?

925
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: It wasn't that fun because you know, my mom was

926
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: an alcoholic. Our lives were very fraud But it was

927
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: fun in the fact that, like I got to go

928
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: to a lot of places and see a lot of things.

929
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: But it was very lonely and sad childhood. I mean,

930
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: I was an only child, and my mom was terrified

931
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: of being a mother because she felt that it had

932
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: destroyed her mother's life. So there were all sorts of

933
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: weird things that caused her a lot of suffering. She

934
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: also was a deeply tormented person who was wildly unhappy.

935
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because it's like so.

936
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 5: Funny so many artists and writers. It's a shame. It's

937
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 5: it's what I It's what I almost it was my

938
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 5: childhood ambition. In reality, man, it's a tough world for artists. Yeah,

939
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know.

940
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: I mean, is it a tough world. I think we're

941
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: very fucking life.

942
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 5: I think genuine artists and writers have it tough, is

943
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 5: what I'm saying. They're often unhappy. Yes, thanks for that.

944
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 5: I'm sure your fans would thank you. You've written a

945
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 5: lot about the GOP. You know, many dwarves phenomenon. Why

946
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 5: are they all trying to ride the Trumpism wave? What's wrong?

947
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 5: And I mean, seriously, what's wrong with the Republican Party

948
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 5: in that sense? And is it clear to you that nobody,

949
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 5: but nobody, but nobody, Nicki Haley, but nobody has any

950
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 5: shot at the nomination other than Donald Trump, come hill

951
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 5: or high water.

952
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: I was talking to Morning Joe this morning. I was

953
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: talking to Joe and Miko about this. If Republicans wanted

954
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: to Nikki Haley. And again this is in no way

955
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: an endorsement of Nikki Haley. I don't agree with her.

956
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 5: You're an analyst.

957
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: All this pulling, which you know is so fraught, like

958
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: people like her. She seems electable. There's a case to

959
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: be made for her electability. And yet this Republican Party cannot,

960
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: for the life of themselves shake themselves from Donald Trump.

961
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: And they know that Trump has an ear retracted people

962
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: hold on the base, and so they can't do anything.

963
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: So if tomorrow every Republican donor, the sort of very

964
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: big donors and all the you know, Jeff Rows, all

965
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: those people went and said we are going to support

966
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: Nicki Haley, this is it.

967
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: If the sort of top down and the rn C chair,

968
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: all the people who have.

969
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: Never been brave ever and who have continually you know,

970
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: supported and enabled Trump and Trump is if those people

971
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: all said tomorrow we are getting behind Nikki Haley. I

972
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: still don't think that the BASS would go along with it,

973
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: and I still think they would have no chance and

974
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: they would just I mean, their whole anxiety here with

975
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: these Republican you know, the sort of Republican elites, is

976
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: that they cannot get the base away from Donald Trump, which, okay,

977
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: my question is in four years or even in two years, do.

978
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 2: You guys think Donald Trump is going away? Because I

979
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: do not. I don't think if he loses.

980
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: He says, Okay, obviously, I've had a few shots at this.

981
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm done. I think this guy drags the whole party

982
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: to zero. I just don't see a world in which

983
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: these people keep sort of thinking that Trump is going

984
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: to magically go away, and I just don't. I don't

985
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: see that happening.

986
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 5: It feels so true just as my lay person of

987
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 5: view from you know, starting an access Hollywood, well that's it,

988
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 5: and definitely at January sixth, that's it. And shit, here

989
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 5: we are, Hey, can we do this next month? This fun?

990
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 3: Yes?

991
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you? No mo Jesse.

992
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 7: Cannon, Molly jong Fest that document. We've all been waiting

993
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 7: for the George Santos ethics report drop today, and my

994
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 7: bet is he's doomed since the only reason he didn't

995
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 7: get it expelled last time was that this hadn't dropped yet.

996
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 1: Who's Janet? Janet Yellen is proposing taxing people like me

997
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: to death. I'm reading a text from the Santos texts

998
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: Janney Yellen, who is proposing taxing people like me to death.

999
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: I can't move, would wake up? Who is Janet? And

1000
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: then the other person texting him makes a sad face.

1001
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 1: She's the Secretary of Treasury. Congratulations, ladies and gentlemen. Not

1002
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: only is George Santos a complete, an utter fraudster, he

1003
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: also had no idea who Janny Yellen was.

1004
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 2: That's kind of a big Manza ball right there.

1005
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: Also, I would like to add, at no point does

1006
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: Representative Santos appear to have owned a Maserati, despite telling

1007
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: campaign staff otherwise. Also, I would like to add he

1008
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: spent four thousand, five hundred dollars at Ermes.

1009
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 2: That was a.

1010
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: Campaign money, and for that he is our moment of

1011
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: fuck ray. That's it for this episode of Fast Poloty.

1012
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the

1013
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

1014
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

1015
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

1016
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: for listening.