1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of My Heart Radio. 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known facts 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows and more. We 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: are your who's of Holiday TV special House of Wise. 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: My name is Jordan run Tug. Well done, sir, charitable laugh. 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: I thought you got a good one. Thank you. Come on, 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: I'm Alex Heigel, someone who's fairly regularly called the grine 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: of any of any particular situation, be it musical, pop, cultural, 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: holiday related. Oh I don't know. Just wait till they 11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: hear you talk about bumpets Christmas Carol. Oh, yeah, that's 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: that one. Warms my heart grow, My heart grows, My 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: heart grows three sizes when I watched that. Yes, well, folks, 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: if you haven't figured it out, today, we are talking 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: about one of the most blood that holiday TV specials 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: of all time. NIX is How the Grinch Stole Christmas. Yes, 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: it's hipper than Charlie Brown's Christmas Special the year before, 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: and a lot more edgy than the Rank and Bass 19 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Rudolph special the year before that. It's got a healthy 20 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 1: doseis aversion thanks to the source of material by Dr 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: Seuss and the irreverence of Looney Tunes thanks to the 22 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: brilliant direction of Chuck Jones and a healthy helping of 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: goth thanks to the bona fide horror legend Boris Karloff 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: of Frankenstein fame. Honestly, the image of the Grinch's smile 25 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: on furling over his face will be seared into my 26 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: memory until the end of time. Heigel the Grinch to 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: my Cindy lu Who how do you feel about this special? 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: It's perfect. It's one of my absolute favorites. I mean, 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: I love the image of him slithering around. That's just 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: some of my favorite animation. Um, this song is soap. 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: I think I like the love the song more than 32 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: anything else. But man, yeah, this is just perfect. It's 33 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: a rare and perfe thing. Well, let's dive in from 34 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: the truly devastating personal story that inspired the source material, 35 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: to the crappy car rental that inspired the grinches color, 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: the surprising influence of World War Two, and the little 37 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: known sequel specials. Here's everything you didn't know about Dr 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: Seuss how the Grinch Stole Christmas? All right, Before we begin, 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: we have to discuss a small point of fact that 40 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: really blew my mind while researching this episode, and that 41 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: is the small matter of Dr Seus's name. Apparently we've 42 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: all been saying it wrong our entire lives. Yes. Theodore 43 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: ted Geisel started using the name, popularly known as Dr 44 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: Seuss while in college at Dartmouth, where he worked on 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: the school's humor magazine, The Dartmouth jack O Lantern, and 46 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: during his enrollment, he and nine of his friends were 47 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: busted in his dorm room for drinking gin. Remember this 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: is during prohibition and alcohol was illegal, so the Dean 49 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: four us ted Geisel to resign from all of his 50 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: extracurricular activities and punishment. So to continue to work on 51 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: the magazine, he started using pen names, one of which 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: was the famous one we know today. SEUs was his 53 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: mother's maiden name as well as his own middle name, 54 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: but it was apparently pronounced sois, as in rhymes with boys, 55 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: and one of his fellow contributors at The Jackal Lantern 56 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: later shared this helpful little sous like limerick, you're wrong 57 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: is the deuce and you shouldn't rejoice if you're calling 58 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: him sus. He pronounces its sois, and I guess he 59 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: would probably switched. Did you know this? I did not 60 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: know this. He reportedly switched to the anglicized pronunciation SEUs 61 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: because it quote evoked to figure advantageous for an author 62 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: of children's books to be associated with mother Goose, and 63 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: he added the doctor I love this to his pen 64 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: name because his father, it always wanted him to practice medicine. 65 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:03,279 Speaker 1: Ergo doctor SEUs. I will say, Soyce is much more funny, 66 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: uh fonetic. Yeah, you know, you gotta like crinkle your 67 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: face to say it. It's just kind of funny. Yeah, 68 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: just I'm just thinking about like everything. Thanks Susic the music, 69 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:23,679 Speaker 1: soy cycle, the bicycle. That's a high watermark for humor 70 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: on this episode. May we top that that? I don't 71 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: think we will? Obviously, The Grinch was created by Dr Seuss, 72 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: But How the Grinch Stole Christmas? The TV special was 73 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: the branchild of Chuck Jones, the legendary animator. He's best 74 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: known to me, at least for his work on the 75 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Looney Tunes and the Mary Melody's cartoon shorts. 76 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: He worked on classics with Bugs, Bunny, Daffy Duck, Wiley, Coyote, 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: and the Roadrunner, Peppy Lapew, Porky Pig, and so many others, 78 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: before ultimately getting let go from the studio in the 79 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: early sixties because basically the is no longer a market 80 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: for these six seven minute cartoons that played in front 81 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: of movies. I think the last one that he worked 82 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: on in that era was The Iceman duck If, which 83 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: was released in nineteen sixty four, and like so many 84 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: animators in his position who basically found themselves out of 85 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: a job, Chuck Jones made the jump to television, which 86 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: is sort of how the Tale of the Grinch TV 87 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: special begins. CBS had a huge hit with the Charlie 88 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: Brown Christmas in nineteen sixty five, and they wanted to 89 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 1: duplicate the success with another animated special the following holiday 90 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: season in nineteen sixty six, so they gave Chuck Jones 91 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: and MGM a budget of three hundred and fifteen thousand dollars, 92 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: which was four times what the Charlie Brown special was 93 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: made for three hundred fifteen thousand, and today's dollars is 94 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: about two point five million, And just to put that 95 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: in perspective, an episode of The flint Stones cost roughly 96 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: sixty five grand for half an hour. Charlie Brown cost 97 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: seventy five grand for it's half hour, so three d 98 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: and fifteen grand was a lot. And Chuck Jones had 99 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: an eye to adapt Dr seuss nineteen fifty seven book 100 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: How the Grinch Stole Christmas for his special but he 101 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: had one sizeable obstacle, which was Dr Seuss himself. M hmmm, 102 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:15,119 Speaker 1: ain't that the way of it? A true Grinch? Chuck 103 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: Jones and Dr SEUs were actually friends, or at least acquainted, 104 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: because they had worked together during World War Two in 105 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: a series of training films. Uh, this was not all 106 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: together in common. During the war, several studios were enlisted 107 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: to make these educational shorts for the military, and the 108 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: team that worked on Looney Tunes at Warner Brothers were 109 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: among them. Uh. Disney was offered the contract first, but 110 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 1: they wanted too much money and they wanted to own 111 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: the exclusive rights to the characters that they created. Even then, 112 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: even pre Katzenberg, in the middle of a world war, 113 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: Disney's being Disney. Everybody's got to do your part, and 114 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: Disney's like, yes, and your part will be opening the coffers. Um. 115 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: Also we get to own uh, you know, venarial disease 116 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: for Gina or whatever character we create too, to tell 117 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: our boys overseas how not to get the clap? Uh? 118 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: Where was I? Chuck Jones worked with Dr Seuss, who 119 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: was in charge of the first animation unit for animated documentaries, 120 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: on a series of cartoons called Private Staff Who Snap 121 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: Who For the uninitiated, is military slang torm for situation normal? 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: All fouled up? YEA, this expression I absolutely have do 123 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: you know? Do you know why? Because I love the 124 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: band Fugazi and they're that is a military acronym for up, 125 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: got ambushed zipped in? Um, yeah, exactly fouled up beyond 126 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: all recognition. Yeah. I went on a wiki rabbit hole 127 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: about all those military jargon things. Can you imagine it 128 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: would be called Private Fugazi? That could have completely changed 129 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: the trajectory of modern independent music that we should have 130 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: called our bands. Uh. These short films followed a hapless, 131 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: bumbling private who is constantly screwing things up. In short, 132 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: they were designed to show you what not to do 133 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: as a soldier. In addition to Dr Seuss Soyce, there 134 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: were In addition to Dr SEUs, there were other future 135 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: children's authors who wrote for these, including the creator Ferdinand 136 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: the Bull, Monroe Leaf, and P. D. Eastman, who later 137 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: wrote Are You My Mother? But Chuck Jones and Dr 138 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: SEUs were paired off on several Private snavee Who shorts, 139 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: including gas like your own or the kind that the 140 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: Nazis would be throwing at you. I think they're gas, okay, 141 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: A lecture on camouflage and spies. The most horrifying war 142 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: in modern even history, and we have guys making cartoons 143 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: with titles that are just spies, which uses Seuss wrote 144 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: in his having style voiced by Mel blank Is, the 145 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Looney Tunes guy who did everybody like bugs Bunny. Yeah, 146 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: I'm just these guys are coming back from like liberating 147 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: dak Al, and they've got like a cartoon. So you've 148 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: got PTSD. What do I do now? Well, here's pebbit 149 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: Lapew you may remember from liberating Paris to help out. Well, 150 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: Hitler's portrayed as Satan and his Nazis as his demons. 151 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: And Private Snap who is portrayed as a literal horses 152 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: ass after he gives away a sensitive military secret. Uh. 153 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: These were actually classified. The cartoon shorts were technically classified 154 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: government documents until fairly recently, and which I implore you 155 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: all to do. So that's what I will be doing. 156 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: All of this is to say that Chuck Jones and 157 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: Dr Seuss went way back, and their friendship is the 158 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: reason why The Grinch Special got off the ground in 159 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: first place. Dr SEUs was reluctant to adapt any of 160 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: his books in animation because he'd been burned by Hollywood before. 161 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: He was screwed out of money and credit on various projects, 162 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: one in particular being a nineteen fifty three movie for 163 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: Columbia called The Five Thousand Fingers of Dr t which 164 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: was a live action feature that Seuss wrote the story, screenplay, 165 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: and lyrics for. It's his only full length feature film. 166 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: Script and It Is a Crazy, Crazy Movie is a 167 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: musical fantasy film about a boy who dreams himself into 168 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: a fantasy world ruled by an evil piano teacher who 169 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: enslaves children to practice piano forever. This movie was not 170 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: well received at the Hollywood premiere. Most of the audience 171 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: walked out after fifteen minutes. And such an auspicious beginning, 172 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: you may not be surprised to learn it didn't exactly 173 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: break in the receipt. Reviews were also dismal. The New 174 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: York Times called the film strange and confused, not only 175 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: abstruse in its symbols and in its vast elaboration of reveries, 176 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: but also dismally lacking in the humor or the enchantment 177 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: such an item should contain. Ouch SEUs himself called the 178 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: film a debaculous fiasco in classic SIUs language or dr 179 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: John Um, and whitewashed any mention of it from his 180 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: official biography. After this, he said, Hollywood is not suited 181 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: to me, and I am not suited to it. And 182 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: so when Chuck Jones came to him thirteen years later 183 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six, he was not exactly thrilled at 184 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: the prospect of another Hollywood adaptation of his work, but 185 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: because he and Chuck went so far back, he trusted 186 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: him to not screw him over and to translate the 187 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: Grinch in a way that served the work. The first 188 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: recorded use of the word grinch in a Doctor Seuss 189 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: work appears in the nineteen fifty three books Scrambled Eggs Super, 190 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: which is the story of Peter T. Hooper, a boy 191 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: who called eggs from a number of exotic birds to 192 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: make scrambled eggs. One of these exotic birds is the 193 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: beagle beaked, bald headed Grinch, who shares the future Grinch's 194 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: grumpy attitude. This was one of the books that was 195 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: withdrawn from print in one along with five other of 196 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: Dr seuss books, because they quote portray people in ways 197 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: that are hurtful and wrong. I think they portrayed Inuits 198 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: in an insensitive light. I believe the Grinches we know 199 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: him first appeared in a thirty three line illustrated poem 200 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: by Dr Seuze called The Who Bub and the Grinch, 201 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: which was originally published in May nineteen fifty five in 202 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: Red Book magazine. It's a weird place to publish a 203 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: Doctor Seuze pomb. It's not like a like a yeah 204 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: exactly yeah. But it wasn't until two years later, in 205 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, the Doctor SEUs began working on a 206 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: full scale book. This was the same year that he 207 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: did The Cat in the Hat, so clearly this was 208 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: a good year for him. He worked quickly and finished 209 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: it in just a few weeks, and according to his biographers, 210 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: it was the easiest book of his career to write, 211 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: except for the ending. He later said, I got hung 212 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: up getting the Grinch out of the mess. I got 213 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: into a situation where I sat like a second rate 214 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: preacher or some biblical truism. Finally, in desperation, without making 215 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: any statement whatsoever, I showed the Grinch and the Who's 216 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: together at the table and made a pun of the 217 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: Grinch carving the roast beast. I'd gone through thousands of 218 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: religious choices, and then after three months it came out 219 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: like that. And now doctors just got significant help from 220 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: his wife, Helen, who acted as an unofficial editor, much 221 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: as she had done for his previous books. And she 222 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: seems like a really cool lady. She was the founder 223 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: of the Beginner Books publishing imprint that published a lot 224 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: of Dr Seuss books and additional a lot of other 225 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: famous kids books. Now, Hewn had been in poor health 226 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: for many years, and she had actually suffered a small 227 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: stroke a few months before he wrote The Grinch, and 228 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Shu's claimed that the inspiration for the character was 229 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: his wife's health problems. You know, in addition to the 230 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: dismay that he felt over the commercialization and of Christmas, 231 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: he said that all of us made him feel very 232 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: grinch ish, as he looked in the mirror one year 233 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: on December. Helen's story is depressing, deeply depressing. The Christmas. 234 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: The Grin special premiere to nineteen sixty six was her last. 235 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: She died by suicide in nineteen sixty seven after taking 236 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: an overdose of barbiturous and it's believed to have been 237 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: a result of the health problems that have plagued her 238 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: for over a decade. She wrote in her suicide note 239 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: to her husband Dr Seuss, dear ted, what has happened 240 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: to us? I don't know. I feel myself in a spiral, 241 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: going down, down, down, into a black hole from which 242 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: there's no escape, no brightness, and loud in my ears. 243 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: From every side, I hear failure, failure, failure. I love 244 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: you so much. I'm too old and a mesh and 245 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: everything you do and are that I cannot conceive of 246 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: life without you. My going will leave quite a rumor, 247 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: but you can say I was overworked and overwrought. Your 248 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: reputation with your friend and fans will not be harmed. 249 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes think of the fun we had all through the years. 250 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: And SEUs later said of his reaction to her death, 251 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know whether to kill myself burned down the 252 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: house or just go away and get lost. His niece 253 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: Peggy would later comment, whatever Helen did, she did it 254 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: out of absolute love for Ted, and his secretary would 255 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: echo the sentiment, calling her death quote her last and 256 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: greatest gift to him. That's one reading of the situation, 257 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: at least. There are also rumors that Seus's wife took 258 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: her own life out of despair when she learned that 259 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: he was having an affair with her neighbor, Audrey Demmoned. 260 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: SEUs married her eight months after his wife's death in 261 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: June Night, and Audrey stayed with Sus until his death 262 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: in and She frequently drove a Cadillac with Grinch as 263 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: the license plate, which she referred to as the grinch Mobile. Uh. 264 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: Bringing it all full circle, though, We're all a little 265 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: saller now, aren't we, Mary Christmas everyone? Um? Yeah, I mean, 266 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that that that Gridge Mobile was 267 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: apparently Dr Seus's car that he had for many years. 268 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: It's interesting, of all the characters that he's created, that 269 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: was the one that he put on a vanity plate 270 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: and put on his car, so clearly he felt some 271 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: kind of deep connection with it. On some level. I 272 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: think I read somewhere maybe I say this later on 273 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: that I think it was his daughter said that on 274 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: his good days, Dr SEUs was the Cat from the 275 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: Cat in the Hat. On his bad days, he was 276 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: the Grinch, both of which were written in the same year, 277 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: in nine. Mm hmm, Jesus, that's that was right. I 278 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: can't believe I made it through. We're going to take 279 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: a quick break, but we'll be right back with more. 280 00:16:54,800 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: Too much information in just a moment. Obviously, the character 281 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: designs for the Grinch and the other characters in the 282 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: special were based on Dr Seus's illustrations from the book, 283 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: but director Chuck Jones did take some liberties, especially where 284 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: the color was concerned. The original book was published at 285 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: a time when color printing was a fairly expensive luxury, 286 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: so the designs were initially done in black and white 287 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: with shades of red useful for the Santa Suit some 288 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: of the Christmas related designs, But in the book, the 289 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: Grinch has no color except for his terrifying pink eyes 290 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: and Chuck Yeah, and Chuck Jones was the one who 291 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,719 Speaker 1: changed him to his signature green color with Dr Seus's blessing. 292 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: This was a Hugh, supposedly chosen by Jones because of 293 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: his experiences renting cars to drive out to visit the 294 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: Sieu's home in Lahoya, Lahoya. I think it's a ob 295 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: would say surf in Usa. Oh oh, um, it's in this. 296 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: It's in the the speech that um there doing the ashes. Yeah. 297 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: He loved to serve the beaches of California from Ventura 298 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: to La Hoya. Uh got that? Um? He was supposedly 299 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: he was supposedly always given cars that were a sickly 300 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: green color. One of they had a note on his 301 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: account it's that weird guy give him a green car. 302 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: But Chuck Jones really put a lot of himself into 303 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: the character in a very literal way. The Grinch's face, 304 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: especially when he grins, looks uncannily like Jones. They have 305 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: these rounded chins and sort of chrubic chubby cheeks and eyelashes. 306 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: And when Sue saw the initial drawing of the Grinch, 307 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: he told Jones that doesn't look like the Grinch. That 308 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: looks like you. Jones response, according to T n T 309 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: S how the Grinch stole Christmas Special? Well, it happens. 310 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: This is hilarious to me because Chuck Jones was not 311 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: known for being especially friendly, but he had on bright 312 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: spot during the making of the special. While working on 313 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: The Grinch, he met his future second wife, Marion Dern, 314 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: who came the interview Dr. Seuss for TV Guys. Well 315 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: having the look of the Grinch in place, they had 316 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: to have the sound and of course the narrator and 317 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: the Grinch himself was voiced by Boris Karloff, British actor 318 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: and best known for his role in the Universal Studios pictures. 319 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: He's obviously the well spring from which all depictions of 320 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: Frankenstein draw. Excuse me, Frankenstein's monster. Um uh, this is 321 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: not an original joke. But um, it's actually only Frankenstein's 322 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: monster if it's been bottled in the Frankenstein Regional France. 323 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: Otherwise really just Frankenstein's sparkling wine. Uh um. Chuck Jones 324 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: was actually inspired to hire Boris because he admired the 325 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: work of Ruddard Kipling and he heard Karloff reading Kipling's 326 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: jungle Book stories. Uh. Dr SEUs dragged his feet on 327 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: casting Boris Karloff because he was afraid it would make 328 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: the Grinch too scary, but once again, Chuck Jones talked 329 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: him into it. You'll notice that Boris Karlof's voice changes 330 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: when he speaks for the Grinch. He speaks normally as 331 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: the narrator, but then his Grinch voices something else, and 332 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: that is because they removed the treble frequencies, the highs 333 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: in his voice with I'm guessing what was semi rudimentary 334 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: technology at the time. Nowadays you did in the box. 335 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: But what would they have done? Probably just rolled off 336 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: all the high trouble frequencies as they were re recording it. 337 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: That's wild. Can you do a grine? No? No, I 338 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: don't want to my all, my all, my car officer 339 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: from Monster mash Yes, I was working in the lab. Uh. Yeah, 340 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: that's why I want to learn how they did that. 341 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: My audio nerve thing is buzzing, well, something a lot 342 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: cuter than audio specs. To sorry. To provide the voice 343 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: of the adorable Cindy lou Who, producers tapped the veteran 344 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: vocal actress June Farrey, perhaps most famous at the time 345 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: as the voice of Rocky from Rocky and Bullwinkle, which 346 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: sort of bears traces of Cindy lou Who or vice versa, 347 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: shows it in Natasha of Boris and Natasha fame from 348 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: Rocky and Bullwinkle, which does not sound like Cindy lou 349 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: who at all. Was just to give some sense of 350 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: incredible range. Uh, June Frey was a legend. Chuck Jones 351 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: was quoted as saying, June Farrey is not the female 352 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: male Blank a k a. The Man of a thousand voices, 353 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: Male Blank is the male June Farrey. Incredible props there. Yeah. 354 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: After starting out in radio, she began her career in Disney, 355 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: playing the role of Lucifer the Cat in Cinderella, and 356 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: she returned to Disney in the nineties to play the 357 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: role of Mulan's grandmother, which rules if not being the 358 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: most culturally sensitive choice. She joined up. She joined up 359 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: with the Looney Tunes crew and voiced a boatload of women, 360 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: including Tweetie Bergs, Granny and Witch Hazel. Uh. She reportedly 361 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: did these voices through to the before her death. She 362 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: also gave voices to the Twilight Zones, Killer Doll, Talkie, Tina, 363 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: George of the Jungles, Ursula, Ducktails, Magica, Dispel and mob Beagle, 364 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: spider Man and his Amazing Friends, his Aunt May, among 365 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: many other things, and Her last on screen performance was 366 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: a short that accompanied the Rocky and Bullwinkle movie before 367 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: she died in July at the age of nine nine. 368 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: Good Lord, what a life well lived? And then Oh, 369 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: you gotta take this, I can. I know he's your boy. 370 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: You gotta hi. Tell us about Thorol Ravens Craft, Thorough 371 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: Ravens Croft. Ah. He provides a singing voice for the 372 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: Green the Death List, Your mean him? Mr Green? Three 373 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: octaves lower, Yeah, mm hmm. I'm gonna listen to that. 374 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: Can we punch that in? How much of that can 375 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: we punch in? Eight seconds? Yeah? What's the eight seconds 376 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: that we get? Whenever he says rotter, Oh yeah with 377 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: me exactly? I don't. I don't can't articulate why that's 378 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: the choice, but feels like the obvious choice. Mr You're 379 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: the King of the pin You're I mean one. Mr Grinch, 380 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: You're hell. It's also it's also my Tennessee or any 381 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: forward impression. Low. My beloved wife has put up with 382 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: me just wandering around the house. Good Oh. Shannon is 383 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: recording of that song the Tennessee Ernie Ford count on 384 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: this program now sounds at one uh yeah. Thorough Ravenscroft 385 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: as we are a man who we already ideed from 386 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: the Brave Little Toaster episode as having done multiple uncredited 387 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: voice roles in Disneyland. He's like the singing. He sings 388 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: all kinds of roles in all the Disneyland rides, including 389 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah and Waltz Tiki bar Um. He was perhaps most 390 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: famous at the time is the voice of Tony the 391 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: Tiger in the Kelox Frosted Flakes commercials and as Kirby 392 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: the Vacuum in Brave Little Toaster, but he did not 393 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: receive an on screen credit for his singing in the movie. 394 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: Dr SEUs felt so bad about this after the fact 395 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: he sent a letter to every major columnist in America 396 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: identifying Ravenscroft as the singer on You're a mean One, 397 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: Mr Grinch. Thankfully there are were no hard feelings, and 398 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: thorough would go into voice one of the Wickersham brothers 399 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: in the animated Horton. Here's who also overseen by Chuck 400 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: Jones and a factory worker in the Lorex. And this 401 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: brings us to the music of the Grinchy Still Christmas. 402 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: Dr Seuss wrote the lyrics to all the songs, including 403 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: the faux Latin chorus for who for Razzie is that 404 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: I think as I ask, which was apparently so convincing 405 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,239 Speaker 1: that the studio received letters after the special aired from 406 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: people asking for an English translation of this Latin. Hilariously, 407 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: the book version of The Grinch got a Latin translation, 408 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: either for Catholic mass or middle school Latin classrooms. I 409 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: can't tell which, but the music was written by composer 410 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: Albert Hague, who contributed to the two thousand film version 411 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: as well. He was also an actor who was perhaps 412 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: best known for playing the music teacher Benjamin Shurovsky on 413 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: the TV series Fame. He also had a small role 414 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: in the movie Space Jam. I was a psychiatrist at 415 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: the professional players see when they lose their skill. And 416 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: there's one part of the music that was cut from 417 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: the movie for a number of years for some reason, 418 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: The line you're a rotter, Mr Grinch, was censored from 419 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: the song You're a mean one, Mr Grinch. I don't 420 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: know why that was cut, but I can take a 421 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: wild guess why. Another shot was originally cut, the one 422 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: in which the Grinch smile just spreads over his face 423 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: before approaching the bed filled with young ooze. It was 424 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: cut because it was terrifying and unnerving. Um okay, now, 425 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, is time for a segment of the 426 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: show that I thought would have been bigger when we 427 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: first launched the show. But I'm so glad it's back. 428 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: This is the Alex Heigel's Internet fan theory corner. It 429 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: sure is, folks, we gotta doozy for you today. There's 430 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: a theory about the Grinch, which hinges in part on 431 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: the lyrics of You're a mean one, Mr Grinch, But 432 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: who's clearly never seen the Grinch before? He lives a solitary, 433 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: hermit like existence and uh you know. Therefore, it's possible 434 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: that the Grinch suffers from social anxiety disorder, and that 435 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: the lyrics to the song are his own self loathing 436 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: inner monologue. Lines like You're as cuddly as a cactus, 437 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: You're as charming as an eel. Your brain is full 438 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: of spiders, you have garlic in your soul, you have 439 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: all the tender sweetness of a c sick crocodile are 440 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: all about the ways that he feels he's unworthy and 441 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: deserving of love, his harsh inner self critic beating him 442 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: down in a way that his friends would never do. 443 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: This is from the side looper. Perhaps to keep himself company, 444 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: the Grinch came up with his own self deprecating daily 445 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: anthem and plays it on a mental loop. No wonder 446 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: he's so grumpy. So yeah. I don't know if that's 447 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: a theory so much as just an evocative description of 448 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: mental illness. Uh. There are a few who note the 449 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: similarities between the Grinch in the book and Dr SEUs 450 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: in real life. In the story, the Grinch laments that 451 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: he has had to put up with the whose celebration 452 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: of Christmas for fifty three years. It is likely not 453 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: a coincidence that Dr SEUs was fifty three when he 454 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 1: wrote and published the book, and SEUs talked about his 455 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: personal connection with the Grine in a December issue of 456 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: Red Book. I was brushing my teeth on the morning 457 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: of the of last December when I noticed a very 458 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: grinchi ish countenance in the mirror. It was SEUs. So 459 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: I wrote about my sour friend, the Grinch, to see 460 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: if I could rediscover something about Christmas that obviously I'd lost. 461 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: So from that you can extrapolate that the relentlessly self 462 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: flagellating inner monologue. The Grinch was perhaps something that Dr 463 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: Seuss battled in his day to day life. So episode 464 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: got a lot darker than I As you meditate on that, 465 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: we'll be right back with more too much information after 466 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: these messages answer, this is what we need when things 467 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: get a little too dark. Bring a cartoon dog. That's 468 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: what we need. Ty Jones, the director of this animated special, 469 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: had his work cut out for him because the book 470 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: version of The Grinch only takes about twelve minutes to 471 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: read out loud, which is far less than necessary for 472 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: a half hour special. So we began to look for 473 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: ways to pad the special out, and Chuck would always say, 474 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to add things to it. I'm trying 475 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: to extend the original idea out. And one of the 476 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: ideas that he extended out was the whole sequence with 477 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: Max the dog. And he said in T N T 478 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: S how the Grinch stole Christmas making up special? That 479 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: whole center section where Max is tied up to the 480 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: sleigh and goes down through the mountainside and how's all 481 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: those problems getting down there? That was good comic business, 482 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: as it turns out, And I love this Max's personality 483 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: was based on a dog that Chuck Jones had as 484 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: a child, which his father tried and tried and tried 485 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: to train but failed. He would stay up late into 486 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: the night trying to get this dog to sit, but 487 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: each time the dog would lose his balance and fall 488 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: backwards when he tried to sit, just like Max when 489 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: the Grinch uses him as a dummy for his Santa 490 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: suit It and Jones would go on to name Max 491 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: as his favorite character from the Grine Special because he 492 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: felt that Max basically directly represented the audience the one 493 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: kind of experiencing all this weirdness makes me sad person 494 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: as I am no to me, this is all interesting 495 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: because it raises the biggest question of what does a 496 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: director actually do when they directed animated film? And this 497 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: is interesting to me because I had no idea. Honestly, 498 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: They're big job is that they're responsible for all of 499 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: the key drawings, which show the characters in action or 500 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: reaction shots. They designed the model sheet, which are those 501 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: sheets where a given character are shown on a couple 502 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: of dozen poses, you know, profile, behind front, so then 503 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: all the assistant animators can redraw the cells with the 504 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: same reaction and motion that the director had in mind 505 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: for the character. And in addition all that, he's also 506 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: the guide to the background designers, and he monitors the 507 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: voice acting and overseas the editing. So you think about 508 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: a director or some he directs a real live action actor. 509 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about what an animation director actually does, 510 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: so that was interesting to me. Well, a Grinch Special 511 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: required somewhere between eleven to fourteen months of production time, 512 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: seventeen thousand drawings and seals, twelve a second, two hundred 513 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: and fifty background layer drawings, twelve hundred character layout drawings, 514 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: and sixty musicians on an eight hour session to finish 515 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: the special. This is very impressive when you consider that 516 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: Chuck Jones came from the world of animated shorts back 517 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: in the forties, when you would have around forty grand 518 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: to make a six minute cartoon and six to nine 519 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: months in the TV realm, you'd have half that amount 520 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: of money to make a half hour cartoon in three 521 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: to four weeks. Granted, the money for the Grinch Special 522 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: was a little bit better than all that, but there 523 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: were still shortcuts necessary. You would have talking head shots 524 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: where you wasn't much to animate beyond the person speaking, 525 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: which is uh technique. The flint Stones leaned on a lot, 526 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: you would have the background repeat. Also the flint Stones, 527 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: you see them driving past the same house is over 528 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: and over again. And you give similar character designs that 529 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: are spread across the cast. And when you see scenes 530 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: when the Grinch is stealing the presence with the bags 531 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: flying out of the chimneys, it is the same shot 532 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: over and over again. And speaking of the budget, every 533 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: one of these cartoon specials needs a sponsor. Charlie Brown 534 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: Christmas was sponsored by Coke, for example, but how the 535 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: Grinch Stole Christmas was struggling to find a sponsor. Chuck 536 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: Jones pitched the story to more than two dozen potentials 537 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: breakfast foods, candy companies and the like, all without any luck. 538 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: Probably the fact that the film is based around a 539 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: relentlessly anti consumerist, anti commercial message probably turned some people off. Uh. 540 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: They should have got frosted flakes to sponsor that they 541 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: had they had the thorough synergy. Um. Running out of options, 542 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: he somehow found a taker in the Foundation for Commercial Banks, 543 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: which represented the country's fourteen thousand national banks. And Uh 544 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: he admitted to being surprised, given you know, the entire 545 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: message of the film, he said, I thought that was 546 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: very odd because one of the great lines in there 547 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: that the Grinche says is perhaps Christmas doesn't come from 548 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: a store. I never thought of a banker endorsing that 549 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: kind of a line, but they overlooked it. So we 550 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: went ahead and made the picture. Uh, in our lost 551 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: media portion of our program that there were did you 552 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: know that there were originally bumpers on each side of 553 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 1: the commercials that shouted out the Federation for Commercial Banks, 554 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: missing for decades until they serviced around the anniversary of 555 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: the special. You can view them on YouTube if you 556 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: are the kind of person who wants to go see 557 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: short animated clips saying we'll return with more. How the 558 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: Griene Stole Christmas, presented by the Federation for Commercial Banks 559 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: Lost Media Lost Media is very interesting to me. Yeah, 560 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: oh yeah, for sure. How the Gride Stole Christmas premiered 561 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: on CBS on December eighteenth, nine sixty six and became 562 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: an instant class like to this day. The special holds 563 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: a hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes, which is significantly better 564 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: than a Muppets Christmas Carol, which surprises me. The description 565 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes reads how the Grin Stole Christmas brings 566 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: an impressive array of talent to bear on an adaption 567 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: that honors a classic holiday story and has rightly become 568 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: a ul tied tradition of its own. The soundtrack won 569 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: a Grammy for Best Recording for Children, which was specifically 570 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: given the Boris karl Off, to which I say justice 571 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: for thorough Ravenscroft. How the Grin Stole Christmas was popular 572 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: enough to warrant a sequel, albeit over a decade later. 573 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven. Airing in October on ABC, Halloween 574 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: Is Grinch Night told the tale of the Grinch who 575 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: apparently learned nothing or came to believe that being good 576 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: was only all once a year thing. Uh. He came 577 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: down to haunt the Who's on Halloween, and though nowhere 578 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: near as successful as the original Christmas incarnation, it won 579 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: an Emmy, which Dr SEUs accepted with the following rhyming 580 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: speech in our studio out in Van Nuys, there are 581 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,879 Speaker 1: so many great gals and great guys. If I thank 582 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: them all, we'd be here until fall, and I don't 583 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: think that would be wise out a way with words. 584 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,959 Speaker 1: He loved his damn rhyme. Rhyme. Yeah, that's an item. 585 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: I would love to buy. Dr Seus's rhyming Dictionary. I'd 586 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: go in my collection. It's just got a bunch of 587 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: slurs written in. Uh. This Halloween special was followed two 588 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: when Marvel Green light The Grinch Grinch is the Cat 589 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: and the Hat, a predictable but no less ingenious bit 590 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: of SEUs synergy which also want a Grammy. And then, 591 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: of course we all know the other films. In two thousand, 592 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: Ron Howard directed a live action version of How the 593 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 1: Grinch Stole Christmas with Jim Carrey in the lead role. 594 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: When I was a little boy, I watched them film 595 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: scenes from that on the Universal backlot, and uh, I 596 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: got to take some Christmas lights from the set and 597 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: some fake snow made from cotton that are in my yeah, 598 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: my collection of special things, to which I hope to 599 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: include Dr Seus's Rhyming Dictionary someday. Uh. And then in 600 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, The Grinch returned to the big screen 601 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: once again, Chucky style, with another animated film starring Benedict 602 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: Cumberbatch as the voice of the Grinch. I haven't seen 603 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: it of you. No, will you? No, No, just leave 604 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: it alone, leave everything alone. I thought you're talking to me. 605 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: Just just leave it alone. But there are at least 606 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: two people who don't like the Grinch, and their names 607 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: are Dave and Bob Grinch. They were two boys from 608 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: the town of Ridgefield, New Jersey. According to the Dartmouth 609 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: Alumni magazine, these boys wrote a letter to Dr Seus's 610 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: requesting that he changed the name of the character in 611 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: the book because they were constantly being harassed, especially around 612 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: Christmas sus. Obviously, he knew that it was too late 613 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: to make a change, but he wrote them an insightful response. 614 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: He said, I disagree with your friends who harass you. 615 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: Can they understand that the Grinch in my story is 616 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: the hero of Christmas. Sure, he starts out as a villain, 617 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: but it's not how you start out that counts. It's 618 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: what you are at the finish. And I think that's 619 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: a good message to take with us as we begin 620 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: to ruminate on our New Year's resolutions at the end 621 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: of this year. Well, folks, I don't know about you, 622 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: but I think my heart is about two sizes bigger. 623 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: Either that or I'm having a panic attack. We hope 624 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: your holiday season is off to a wonderful start. Please 625 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: try to take it slow and savor it wherever you are, 626 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: whatever you're doing, Christmas will always be just as long 627 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: as we have. We welcome Christmas while we stand heart 628 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: to heart and hand in hand. He did have a 629 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: way with words, didn't he? Yes, he did. Thank you 630 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: for listening, folks. This has been too much information. I'm 631 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan runt Talk. We'll get you 632 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: next time. We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information 633 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: was a production of I Heart Radio. The show's executive 634 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk. The show's 635 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show was researched, 636 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,760 Speaker 1: written and hosted by Jordan run Talk and Alex Hegel, 637 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: with original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. 638 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave 639 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and I heart Radio, 640 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 641 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.