1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

6
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,360
Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

7
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,080
Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

8
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:25,120
Speaker 2: But enough with that, Let's get to the showing.

9
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 3: Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

10
00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today. What do

11
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,479
Speaker 2: we have, Crystal, Indeed we do.

12
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 1: It is a big week because Wednesday, that would be

13
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 1: tomorrow first GOP primary debate sans Trump, but still will

14
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 1: be interesting. And there was a memo it came out

15
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 1: for Rhonda Santis that is just a fascinating look at

16
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 1: like consultant brain and how all of these people are

17
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: approaching this event.

18
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 4: So we'll dig into that.

19
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,199
Speaker 1: We also have some updates from President Biden's trip to Hawaii,

20
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 1: perhaps not getting the welcome that he expected there. We've

21
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,960
Speaker 1: also got some news out of China in terms of

22
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 1: both their continuing economic struggles and also their plans to

23
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,119
Speaker 1: team up with the other Brick Nichans and some other

24
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: nations around the world to serve as a counter to

25
00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 1: the G seven.

26
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,039
Speaker 4: So we'll get into all of that.

27
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,520
Speaker 1: Some new research on the impact of screen time on

28
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,080
Speaker 1: babies and on childhood development. This is when you definitely

29
00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,759
Speaker 1: want to pay attention to. And finally, and very importantly,

30
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 1: mister Beast has either started World War three or perhaps

31
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 1: created world peace.

32
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:42,960
Speaker 4: So we will.

33
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 1: We will dig into it. Just sort of accidentally he

34
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 1: did that. Also excited to talk to Soa Amari this

35
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: morning about his new book Tyranny, which is a hard

36
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,800
Speaker 1: look at corporate power and what we can do to

37
00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 1: check it, something we are obviously very interested in here,

38
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: so that should be a good discussion as well.

39
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,280
Speaker 2: That's right, we're really excas. Today's a big day, guys.

40
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 2: We are not gonna have mologs in the show. We

41
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 2: were filming a bunch of extra content, an entire debate

42
00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,800
Speaker 2: special that's actually going to drop for our premium subscribers

43
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 2: to everything you need to know about the debate, prepare,

44
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 2: how to think about it, what to look for, includes

45
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,919
Speaker 2: some predictions from Crystal and I but what's going to

46
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 2: go down? So that drops today for everybody else it'll

47
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,239
Speaker 2: air tomorrow. We're not going to have a counterpoints show

48
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,519
Speaker 2: for everybody. Instead, we're gonna have the great Emily Jushinski

49
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 2: here in the studio on Thursday. We're all going to

50
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 2: break down everything as early as humanly possible on Thursday,

51
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 2: as fast as we can. So I think we've got

52
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,200
Speaker 2: a lot of great content. Become a premiumsbscriber Breakingpoints dot

53
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 2: Com if you're able.

54
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 3: Of course, it costs money to shoot.

55
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 2: These extras and do all these other things, and you

56
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 2: guys are the ones who enable all that. So we

57
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 2: appreciate you and we love you breaking Points dot Com

58
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 2: if you are able.

59
00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 4: Yep.

60
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: So if you want to get that debate special that

61
00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 1: we're recording today right after the main show early, make

62
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,080
Speaker 1: sure you subscribe and you will be the first to

63
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:52,400
Speaker 1: see that.

64
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 3: There you go. All right, let's start with Hawaii.

65
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,359
Speaker 2: President Biden a touchdown late last night our time, earlier

66
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 2: in the day over there, Hawaii time to not exactly

67
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 2: the most welcome reception. This is actually from Hawaiian local

68
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,640
Speaker 2: News and shouts out some of the signs and the

69
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 2: slogans that greeted President Biden on the street.

70
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen over to my right.

71
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 4: There are a bunch of people out here.

72
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 5: They've been here for hours. A bunch of them are protesting.

73
00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 5: They have their makeshift signs, cardboard signs, a lot of

74
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 5: them saying, as we've been talking about, that he's too late.

75
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,919
Speaker 5: Some of them feel that he should have been here

76
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 5: much earlier. Other signs that see actions speak louder than words.

77
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 5: So hearing a lot from the people here as well

78
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,000
Speaker 5: as Hawaiian flags.

79
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 2: People standing out for hours on end is to make

80
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 2: their thoughts felt to the president. And it's one of

81
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 2: those where look, I can think back to Hurricane Maria

82
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,520
Speaker 2: to Trump, he always had like smattering a protest, specifically

83
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 2: with Maria, especially with Puerto Rico, where his response was scrutinized.

84
00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 2: But Glenn Greenweal put this out yesterday and I just

85
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 2: think it's so true. This is both a media story

86
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,920
Speaker 2: and it is a story of the response. I think

87
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 2: the response itself has been horrific, But on a media level,

88
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 2: crystal this type of thing. In Hurricane Katrina, they would

89
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,240
Speaker 2: have blared this from the rooftops, that would have shown

90
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 2: it to everybody. As Glenn correctly pointed out, and I

91
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 2: also referenced President Bush was destroyed for that fly by

92
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,039
Speaker 2: over Katrina as people were literally drowning. Yeah, and he

93
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 2: did that sympathetic look out of the window. I mean

94
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 2: President Trump also was scrutinized for Maria. Biden takes days,

95
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 2: i mean almost two weeks in order to visit the

96
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 2: site of this disaster, after barely opening his mouth about this.

97
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 2: You have protesters and people on the ground. Let's keep

98
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 2: this in mind, this is a democratic state that voted

99
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 2: two to one for President Biden. These aren't just you know,

100
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 2: like Republican trolls that are coming out and saying this.

101
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 2: I think they're rightfully outraged, and we're basically hearing.

102
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 3: This from local media.

103
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 2: We're really not even seeing any pickup by the actual

104
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 2: mainstream press. Very little bit of a criticism on the

105
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 2: in the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, a few of

106
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,800
Speaker 2: those other places, but you know, the talking heads, like

107
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 2: they're basically giving him a pass on what is objectively

108
00:04:58,480 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 2: a total disaster of a respet.

109
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: I mean, to be clear, the media was right to

110
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 1: take a very harsh lens to Bush's response to Katrina,

111
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 1: which was I mean, not only callous and horrific, but

112
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 1: also just the response itself was completely catastrophic. They were

113
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 1: correct to take a harsh lens to President Trump's response

114
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 1: to Hurricane Maria. That was, you know, that was the

115
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 1: right thing to do, because there were true failures there.

116
00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 1: And also on the level of, you know, the optics

117
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,920
Speaker 1: of seeming like you actually care about these Americans who

118
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,600
Speaker 1: are suffering. You know, he fell far short of the mark.

119
00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,040
Speaker 1: But there has not been a similar level.

120
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 4: Of scrutiny of Biden.

121
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 1: And certainly in terms of online I mean the amount

122
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,680
Speaker 1: of backlash to even you know, a little bit of

123
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 1: criticism of the president for let's not forget his first

124
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,000
Speaker 1: the first questions he got about this, he was sitting

125
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 1: on the beach and he said appeared to say no comment.

126
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,479
Speaker 1: Then he plans a vacation a Tahoe, which he you know,

127
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,840
Speaker 1: was shamed into leaving briefly to go down and make

128
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,119
Speaker 1: this visit. And more critically, what we are hearing from

129
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,039
Speaker 1: the ground from the people who are there living this

130
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,039
Speaker 1: nightmare is that the response and recovery effort and the

131
00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,200
Speaker 1: relief effort has been woefully inadequate.

132
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 4: That deserves great scrutiny.

133
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 1: And so the fact that you have some wines there

134
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,279
Speaker 1: making their thoughts known. Listen, this is why it's important

135
00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,679
Speaker 1: that you go visit, because human beings being what they are,

136
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,960
Speaker 1: to see that devastation firsthand, to actually see those signs

137
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,120
Speaker 1: and understand that people in a state that voted overwhelmingly

138
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 1: for you are not impressed with what's going on. Hopefully

139
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,719
Speaker 1: those things going to make an impact. Just take a

140
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 1: look at some of the images that he would have

141
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,160
Speaker 1: been seeing with his own eyes. Got and put this

142
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,720
Speaker 1: up on the screen. Guys, this is what his motorcade

143
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,760
Speaker 1: was driving by there on the island. I mean, I

144
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:49,360
Speaker 1: can't I just can't imagine this being my talent. That devastation,

145
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 1: I mean, those burnout cars, the buildings, just everything absolutely decimated.

146
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,160
Speaker 1: And keep in mind, guys, we still don't have a

147
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,160
Speaker 1: full body count. Still don't even know how many lives

148
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,919
Speaker 1: were lost here. The last number I saw is one

149
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: hundred and eleven. They haven't finished going through this area

150
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: to recover all of the human remains. There are still

151
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 1: hundreds of people who are missing. Residents fear that the

152
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,560
Speaker 1: death toll is going to be much higher than where

153
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: it is now. So you just can't understate the massive,

154
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,040
Speaker 1: horrific impact of this tragedy.

155
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 2: Christal, there are eight hundred and fifty missing people still

156
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 2: as we air this second. Let's all be honest here

157
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 2: about you know, unless I hope they turn up, but

158
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 2: I hope everything works out. But it's been a long

159
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,600
Speaker 2: time since those fires, and if they haven't at this point,

160
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 2: I know they found some children and all that that

161
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 2: was about, you know what, several days ago. But this

162
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: is a devastating disaster. I mean, the toll on the

163
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 2: ground they are saying the local death toll estimate is

164
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 2: somewhere in the four hundreds and likely going even higher.

165
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,720
Speaker 2: So this is one of the biggest tragedies, worst wildfires

166
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 2: as you've always what over a century, for a century,

167
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 2: over a century, with all the techno we've had. We've

168
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 2: done multiple segments here scrutinizing the disaster response, the legal

169
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,000
Speaker 2: monopoly of the actual power utilities, the lack of scrutiny there.

170
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 2: President Biden, you know, offering these people some seven hundred

171
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 2: dollars one time payment which I'll never get over, on

172
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,880
Speaker 2: the exact same day requesting twenty five billion dollars in

173
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,280
Speaker 2: extra assistance of military assistance to the country of Ukraine,

174
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 2: including humanitarian assistants, probably even more so than what's been

175
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 2: requested for Hawaii so far. It's just outrageous. And you know, look,

176
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 2: as you said, it's not just about why shouldn't he

177
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,959
Speaker 2: have It's not just the visit, It's that where is

178
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 2: the whole of government approach? Where is the cabinet secretaries?

179
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 2: Where is the energy and the action from the government

180
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 2: here in the actual response, the residents on the ground

181
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,040
Speaker 2: are saying FEMA's not here, we don't know where they are.

182
00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 2: The day afterwards, we're talking about here on the show,

183
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 2: multiple people in Hawaii saying we're being blocked by the

184
00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 2: local government from delivering the supplies that are needed to Maui.

185
00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 2: So at every level, I think it's been a failure.

186
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,680
Speaker 2: And fortunately, you know, only independent sources of the Internet

187
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 2: and all that will scrutinize what should be entire news

188
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,880
Speaker 2: cycle about what a disaster this has been from the

189
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 2: very beginning, and a major failure of President Biden.

190
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, I want to say, I saw

191
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 1: a Washington Post article that spoke to wyans on the ground,

192
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 1: and you know, heard out their criticism.

193
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 4: That's pretty much all I've seen.

194
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,600
Speaker 3: That's insane, that's about it.

195
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Compare that again to you know, coverage of past

196
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,199
Speaker 1: tragedies under other presidents, and you see if the media

197
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 1: has applied the critical lens to this president, that deserves

198
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 1: to be based on what we've seen.

199
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:35,440
Speaker 4: On the ground.

200
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,640
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to the big political story

201
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 1: of the week, which is the Republican debate primary debate

202
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,679
Speaker 1: happening tomorrow night. As we mentioned before, we're gonna have

203
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 1: special coverage for you premium subscribers that will drop today

204
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,320
Speaker 1: for everybody else that will drop tomorrow warnings, so look

205
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:54,959
Speaker 1: forward to that.

206
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,800
Speaker 4: We did get news of exactly who the.

207
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: Eight candidates are because there was some dispute over who

208
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 1: was in and who was out. My condolences to all

209
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 1: of the Perry Johnson and Francis Suarez fans. Your guys

210
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,360
Speaker 1: did not make it onto the debate stage. But we

211
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: wanted to take a look at this memo. This is

212
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,440
Speaker 1: fascinating on a whole host of levels. So Ron DeSantis,

213
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 1: most of his money is not actually in his campaign,

214
00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 1: it's in a super pac, and so he's very dependent

215
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,040
Speaker 1: on a super pac for polling and research and strategy

216
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 1: and all of the mechanics of the campaign. But they

217
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 1: can't directly cord me. So instead, what the super Pac

218
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: has been doing is they will post these strategy memos

219
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 1: online in places where they think only DeSantis and his

220
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: team will really find them. But lo and behold, news

221
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 1: Media picked up on their debate strategy memo that they

222
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,560
Speaker 1: had posted online, and some of the details here are

223
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 1: pretty amusing.

224
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 4: So put this up on the screen.

225
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 1: The overall plan here for DeSantis going to the debate,

226
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 1: according to this super Pac strategy memo, is to defend

227
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 1: Trump and quote hammer Ramswami vivike Ramaswami, Desanta's allies revealed

228
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,199
Speaker 1: debate strategy. Hundreds of pages of blunt advice memos and

229
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,720
Speaker 1: internal polling were posted online by the Means super Pac

230
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,360
Speaker 1: back in the Florida governor, offering an extraordinary glimpse into

231
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,760
Speaker 1: his operations. Thinking they have since taken this memo down

232
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,560
Speaker 1: off of the internet, but presumably Ron got the message

233
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,079
Speaker 1: before they before they pulled it. So let me give

234
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 1: you some of the specifics from this memo. It's just

235
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,920
Speaker 1: a fascinating look into like consultant rain and the type

236
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,040
Speaker 1: of advice that they would be. This isn't unique to

237
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,040
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis. He's just the one who happened to have

238
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,720
Speaker 1: his memo, you know, caught by the news media. But

239
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: this is the way that they approach this. They said,

240
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 1: Number one, attack Joe Biden and the media three to

241
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,439
Speaker 1: five times, okay. Number two State Governor Randa Santis's positive

242
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,720
Speaker 1: vision two to three times. Number three hammer the vike

243
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,600
Speaker 1: Ramaswamy and her response. And they provide all sorts of

244
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, oppo research on vivek and especially they focus

245
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 1: on some positions that he seems to have changed, some

246
00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,880
Speaker 1: sort of more liberal sounding positions that he used to hold.

247
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,080
Speaker 1: Number four defend Donald Trump in absentia in response to

248
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,200
Speaker 1: a Chris Christie attack. So they seem to think that

249
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,280
Speaker 1: quote taking a sledgehammer to vivike Ramswami, calling him fake

250
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 1: vi vike or vivic the fake will be a good

251
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 1: moment for and we'll see if he actually tries out

252
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 1: these lines now that they've been made public. They also

253
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,679
Speaker 1: think that it could benefit him to really go on

254
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 1: the offense against Chris Christy, who will be likely vociferously

255
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 1: going against Trump, because that's part of what he has

256
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,160
Speaker 1: staked his campaign on as being one of the main

257
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 1: anti Trump voices. Also fascinating, Sagar I thought was the

258
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 1: kind of like kid Glove's way they want to go

259
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,720
Speaker 1: about talking about the former President Trump. They suggest saying

260
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 1: that Trump's time has passed, that mister DeSantis should be

261
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,559
Speaker 1: seen as quote carrying the torch for the movement he inspired.

262
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,720
Speaker 1: They provided him with an elaborate script with which to

263
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,200
Speaker 1: position himself in relation to Trump. He could say that

264
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 1: Trump was a breath of fresh air, the first president

265
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 1: to tell the elite where to shove it, then add

266
00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 1: that the form whre president was attacked all the time,

267
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: provoked attacks all the time, and it was NonStop. He

268
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,559
Speaker 1: could then argue that Trump was now, of course, have

269
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,079
Speaker 1: been indicted, faces so many distractions that it's almost impossible

270
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 1: for him to focus on moving the country forward, and

271
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,200
Speaker 1: that this election is too important. We need someone that

272
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 1: can fight for you instead of fighting for himself. And

273
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 1: then the final detail here that I found rather entertaining is,

274
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,280
Speaker 1: of course, you know, they're aware that DeSantis has this

275
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 1: like likability awkwardness issue, and so their suggestion here is

276
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm reading directly that he quote invoke a personal anecdote

277
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,959
Speaker 1: story about family kids, Casey showing emotion. Oh yeah, thanks, consultants.

278
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Consultants that that definitely should do it.

279
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 2: That gives you a good view into how brain did

280
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,559
Speaker 2: all these people are and how they try to manufacture

281
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 2: personality and made.

282
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,719
Speaker 3: The King yes for about it so true.

283
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 2: It's basically, you know, it's like the down the human

284
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 2: suit zip up all the way we pretend to be.

285
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 3: Emotional, show emotions. I got it. I will do that.

286
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 3: You know, it's like you can't.

287
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 2: He can't put authenticity in a memo, And that's really

288
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,960
Speaker 2: what it comes through. I took away from this much

289
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 2: more like, aside from the consultant one, it's clear who

290
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 2: DeSantis Seze is his main rival, and that's Vake Yep.

291
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,359
Speaker 2: He is going guns blazing, I think against Vike Ramaswami.

292
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 2: If I'm Ramaswami, I'm gonna be doing the exact same thing.

293
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to hit back as hard as possibly can.

294
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 2: These two are basically locked in a match for number

295
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,840
Speaker 2: two spot, and in terms of favorability ratings in Ohio

296
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 2: and elsewhere, we're going to get into just in a

297
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 2: little bit about how they're actually technically is a very

298
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,960
Speaker 2: very narrow lane for a single personal rival to Trump

299
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,040
Speaker 2: and they both want to be that person. I think

300
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 2: Chris Christy is going to be coming in guns blazing

301
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 2: against DeSantis because he is the person who he really

302
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 2: needs to knock off. Christy Actually, interestingly enough, from the

303
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 2: polling that I've seen so far, he's actually locked up

304
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 2: the majority of the anti Trump votes so far in

305
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 2: New Hampshire and in Iowa, so he needs to prove

306
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,120
Speaker 2: more of his bona fides there, and anybody who is

307
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 2: actually going for DeSantis as an anti Trump move, Christy

308
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 2: wants to move them in that category. So I think

309
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,200
Speaker 2: the DeSantis is going to be the main focal point

310
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 2: on the stage in terms of Desanti is gonna try

311
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,480
Speaker 2: and blow off Christy.

312
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 3: I'm already gonna predict.

313
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 2: I think Christy is going to be coming after him

314
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 2: on Ukraine and a few weather of these issues, also

315
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 2: on Disney. Ramaswami's gonna be coming in probably serve as

316
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,160
Speaker 2: the main Trump attack dog in terms of going after Christie,

317
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 2: but also on DeSantis for being weak and for not

318
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 2: stepping up enough on behalf of Trump. So look, I'll

319
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,000
Speaker 2: save all my main predictions here and more look at

320
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 2: it as I think this is a major two way.

321
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 2: This is a two way fight with a like complete wild.

322
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 1: Card a surrounding melee Asa Hotchinson.

323
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 3: He's a nice guy. We interviewed him here.

324
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna have a big moment. Nikki

325
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,320
Speaker 2: Haley's gonna try and have her moment.

326
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 3: She's gonna have a Kamala moment if if.

327
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:49,960
Speaker 2: He did kicking sideways against Viveik, not against Trump though,

328
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 2: it isn't that funny. She'll kick, She'll kick to the left,

329
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 2: but she'll never kick to the right. She'll kick DeSantis

330
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 2: Tim Scott, he's.

331
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 3: A nice guy. I'm sure I'll have a couple of moments.

332
00:15:58,600 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 3: But he's not an attack guy.

333
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 4: That's now No, that's not his personality. It's not a

334
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 4: political brand. I don't think it would.

335
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it would go well with like what

336
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,240
Speaker 1: his political brand exactly.

337
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 2: So in general I think that this is, you know,

338
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 2: to boil it down for just this segment.

339
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 3: It is Desanta's Ramaswami. They're going for the number two.

340
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,920
Speaker 2: We also had an interesting ABC News pieces go and

341
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen where they did

342
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 2: kind of a deep dive into evac They say, quote

343
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 2: how Aviake Ramaswami saw podcast start on prior to the

344
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 2: White House run.

345
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,920
Speaker 3: They quoted someone who said he's wanted to be famous.

346
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,320
Speaker 2: They revealed that he apparently was in a development deal

347
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 2: with The Daily Wire actually for a podcasts before he

348
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 2: decided to run for president.

349
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Daily Wire confirmed that part of it.

350
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 2: They did confirm that one of the interesting things that

351
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,600
Speaker 2: actually came out to me is that whenever you looked

352
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 2: at the Ramaswami rebuttal here, it is just like he

353
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, is your source a person who lives

354
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 2: in a publicly funded mansion in Tallahassee as in the

355
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,760
Speaker 2: DeSantis team. I can only say anecdotally online just from

356
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 2: watching kind of the sparring of all the camps. The

357
00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 2: Disanti folks have really stepped up their fire against Ramaswami

358
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 2: in recent days. They particularly focused in on a line

359
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,880
Speaker 2: here in this ABC piece about how Ramaswami had told

360
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 2: associates in the past that his candidacy could potentially nudge

361
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,119
Speaker 2: out Ron DeSantis. They're like, oh, Vivek is trying to

362
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 2: sabotage Rond de Santas.

363
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:14,600
Speaker 4: No.

364
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:16,640
Speaker 2: I just think he thinks he's better at the job

365
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,480
Speaker 2: than Desanta's. I think he's in more of a viable candidate,

366
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 2: and to be honest, given his polling position right now,

367
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,119
Speaker 2: and especially given where DeSantis started, I don't know if

368
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 2: he's necessarily wrong about that in terms of performance so far.

369
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I think in terms of political talent, vivec

370
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 1: is a more politically talented I agree person.

371
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:32,840
Speaker 4: And you have to.

372
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,679
Speaker 1: Look, obviously, you guys know, I have all kinds of

373
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 1: policy disagreements with vivike Ramaswami, though I'm very grateful that

374
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: he is willing to come here and mix it up

375
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 1: with us and mix it up with the host of people,

376
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: and I hope we can do that again. But you know,

377
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 1: this is a guy who basically came out of nowhere

378
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 1: and is now verging on being the leading alternative to Trump.

379
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 4: Now. I mean, given that Trump is.

380
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,400
Speaker 1: Winning by like a landslide, maybe that's a low bar,

381
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: but you know, he is certainly giving DeSantis right now

382
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 1: a run for is my and DeSantis had the whole

383
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,719
Speaker 1: Fox News room for Urndock Empire pulling for him at

384
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 1: the beginning of this. He's had endless free media coverage.

385
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: He has much higher name recognition, and that's a thing

386
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 1: that DeSantis has to be really nervous about with Viveke

387
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 1: is even though he has relatively still low name mighty

388
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 1: like there are a lot of Republicans who are just

389
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,119
Speaker 1: going to be getting introduced to him tonight at the debate.

390
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 1: That means that Vivike has a lot of room where

391
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 1: he could potentially grow, whereas Rond de Santis is known

392
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: by the Republican base at.

393
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 4: This point and you know, broadly liked.

394
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: It's not that they hate him, although his favorability rating

395
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: has come down significantly since this campaign started. So it

396
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,679
Speaker 1: seems like Viveke potentially has a much higher ceiling and

397
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,440
Speaker 1: much more room to grow than Rond de Santis does

398
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 1: at this point. I'll just read you the piece of

399
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 1: this article where they talk about how they were the

400
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 1: is vivecan here just to torpedo Ronda Santis part. They

401
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 1: say he pitched himself as a cannon who can serious

402
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: waves in the Republican primary when he was talking to

403
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 1: some of his initial backers when Mett was some skepticism,

404
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 1: Ramaswami argued his candidacy could also dissuade Florida Governor Rond

405
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 1: de Santis from entering the race. That didn't happen. According

406
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,680
Speaker 1: to a source who was on the call. In the

407
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 1: lead up to his announcement, Ramswami would tell several other

408
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: conservative activists that he believed that if he ran, it

409
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 1: could stop DeSantis from running or impact his viability as

410
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: a candidate if he did enter.

411
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 4: The race, sources said.

412
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,679
Speaker 1: And look, I mean, in terms of his public posture,

413
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: it's no secret he's been very defensive of Trump. You know,

414
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: go to the matt to defend Trump. He says he'll

415
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,199
Speaker 1: pardon him if he becomes president of the United States.

416
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 1: And he's not at all reticent about attacking Ronda Santis.

417
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: When we interviewed him, he called DeSantis, or seemed to

418
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: call Ronda Santis a super pac puppet, which tends to

419
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: be the language that he uses around him. So he

420
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 1: hasn't pulled any punches there. I don't think anyone should

421
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 1: be shocked that Vivik Ramaswami or any of these individuals who.

422
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 4: Are running for president want to be famous.

423
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 1: Like obviously all of them have sizeable egos. Obviously all

424
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 1: of them comfortable or searching out some national spotlight. And

425
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: so I don't think you know, the fact that he

426
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,360
Speaker 1: was looking at a podcast or whatever, to me none

427
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: of that is particularly surprising.

428
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 3: Who runs for office and who doesn't want to be famous.

429
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 3: Let's off, of course, come.

430
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,240
Speaker 1: And then I already been doing all kinds of because

431
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 1: our remedia appearances.

432
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 4: He wrote a book, you know, to get himself into that.

433
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 2: Late hours ago, way before you know, whenever his first

434
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,959
Speaker 2: book came out. So it's one of those where that

435
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 2: attack I really annoyed because I'm like, what, Desantas doesn't

436
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: want to be famous? Come on, you know, it's like,

437
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 2: let's all be honest, let's put the next one up

438
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: there on the screen. Veke has been taking it on

439
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 2: the chin recently because he gave an interview to the

440
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 2: Atlantic and he said, quote, I think it's legitimate to

441
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: say how many police, how many federal agents were on

442
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 2: planes that hit the twin towers. Maybe the answer is zero.

443
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 2: It probably is zero for all I know. He was

444
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 2: interviewed actually last night on CNN Caitlyn Collins Show, and

445
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: they had a pretty vigorous debate about it. I really, oh, yeah, yeah,

446
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 2: it's actually it's worth watching at least some of it.

447
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: The reason why I just find this entire thing, everyone's like,

448
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 2: I can't believe the vig said that he distrusts the

449
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,239
Speaker 2: nine to eleven Commission. By the way, that was his

450
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 2: first comment on the Ax Alex Steins show over on

451
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 2: Blaze TV, and it's like, this is so outrageous, and

452
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, hold on a.

453
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 3: Second, do you believe the entire nine to eleven commission?

454
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: Because I'm pretty sure we had done multiple segments here

455
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: on this show about how the nine to eleven Commission

456
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 2: at the very least dropped the ball and one hundred

457
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 2: percent did cover up the Saudi connections inside of the file.

458
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 2: So yes, I don't know who out there is standing

459
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 2: for the nine You know, the nine to eleven Commission

460
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 2: as the gold standard for everything that happens.

461
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 3: Well, then most people are nuts and they should do

462
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 3: a little bit of research.

463
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 2: Now in terms of the specifics over what he said,

464
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: in terms of the fact I have not seen I

465
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 2: will just say, kindly outside of very small areas of

466
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: the Internet, of the actual allegation that there were quote, federal.

467
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 3: Agents on the plane.

468
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 2: Now, if he changed that language to Saudi agents on

469
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: the plane.

470
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, now we're in business.

471
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 3: Let's let's have.

472
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 2: A conversation a little bit about this and whether the

473
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 2: US government was aware of said Saudi agents and whether

474
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 2: there was an entire I mean, I recommend the book

475
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: always to Lawrence Wright's book about nine to eleven and

476
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,719
Speaker 2: the lead up to all of that in terms of

477
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 2: the drop ball at the very least bureaucratic incompetence about

478
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,439
Speaker 2: knowledge of these people inside of the country, and the

479
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 2: fact that these guys making approaches to these hijackers were

480
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: almost one hundred percent connected to the Saudi government. So

481
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 2: I've been very annoyed by the discourse on this as

482
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: of late, as if it's like some scandalized thing to

483
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: question the actual, like the actual nine to eleven commissioner

484
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 2: word on what happened, especially considering we just had an

485
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: interview here on the show about Al Bayoumi, the guy

486
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: who made that contact with those hijackers, and specifically his

487
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 2: now revealed almost direct connection to the Saudi government at

488
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 2: that time.

489
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 4: Yeah.

490
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the funny thing to me about his

491
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: comments are it sort of feels like he knows they're okay,

492
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: like sort of conspiracy thinking. And I don't mean that

493
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: in derogatory, but it's kind of hot right now. You know,

494
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: he knows that the nine to eleven thing, he got

495
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: some pushback before this got him some media juice whatever,

496
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: but he hasn't really like dug into the details of

497
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: what the actual, you know, questions are about what might

498
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: have been wrong in the nine to eleven commission.

499
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 4: So he's sort of like mixed up some of.

500
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: The January sixth allegations with like just general nine to

501
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: eleven conspiracy and comes out with this thing. It sort

502
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: of feels like he feels like he should question nine

503
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: to eleven, but he doesn't really know the details, so

504
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: he's kind of throwing this against the wall.

505
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 4: That's my vibe from all of this. But Vivek has.

506
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: Really having a moment right now. I mean there's just

507
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: no denying that. I think there's a lot of interest

508
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: in him. I think he has room to grow. I

509
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 1: suspect based on our interactions and what I've seen of

510
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: him in the media. I suspect he'll be well equipped to,

511
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: you know, spar with whoever comes at him on the stage,

512
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: whether it's Ronda Santister, Chris Christi, or anyone else. I

513
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: expect there are going to be a lot of people

514
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: who are googling his name after the primary debate tonight

515
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: who really hadn't dug into him as a candidate and

516
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: didn't know that he was an option that existed. Now,

517
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 1: is that enough to supplant Trump as the number one? No,

518
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: especially when you're not really willing to go at Trump whatsoever,

519
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: and you still have to have some sort of argument

520
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: to move on from the guy that the Republican base

521
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly likes.

522
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: Could I see him.

523
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: Really, you know, supplanting Ron DeSantis as the number two

524
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 1: and really positioning himself as the primary Trump alternative in

525
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: case something happens that right now is unforeseen. Yeah, I

526
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: could see that. I don't think that that is crazy

527
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: at all. So anyway, that's some of what we'll be

528
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: looking for at the debate. At the same time, you know,

529
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: this is another interesting story with regards to him, and

530
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: I appreciate him coming.

531
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: Out with this too. For the record, okay, we'll.

532
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 4: Get into the details. So put this up on the screen.

533
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: Vivek is accusing Newsmax of basically telling him he needs

534
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: to pay in order to get coverage on the network. Now,

535
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: this is pretty wild because listen, candidates aren't stupid. They

536
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: probably all suspect that maybe they'll get more favor favorable

537
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: coverage on any of these news networks or conservative outlets

538
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: or whatever, if they pay for advertising on those networks.

539
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: But according to Vivek, Chris Ruddy, who runs the network,

540
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: just outright, like bluntly told him, if he wants better coverage,

541
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: then he can pay for advertising. And part of why

542
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: this is so believable is because you all may not

543
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: even know. There's this Republican businessman named Perry Johnson who

544
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: is running for president and apparently he pays for a

545
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: lot of ads on Newsmax, and Newsmax has gone all

546
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: in for this guy in terms of his coverage. He's

547
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: on their airwaves all the time. They're doing some like

548
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: documentary series about his campaign.

549
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 4: They have all of these.

550
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: Like Perry Johnson puff pieces, oh and lo and behold.

551
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: It just so happens that he's spending a lot of

552
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: advertising dollars on the network. So that context, I think

553
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: makes the Ramaswami claim here very believable.

554
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: Oh one hundred and fifty percent.

555
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: And in fact, as Ben Smith, who's outlet four actually

556
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: originally reported this, almost immediately after the allegation came out,

557
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: there was a hit piece against Ramaswami actually on the

558
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 2: network where they were like, oh, interesting, and they specifically

559
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: were doing segments about Vivic Ramaswami and when she said

560
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 2: that he would cut aid to Israel. So I'll read

561
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: directly what they say quote Vivic's comments put him in

562
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: the same ballpark as those radical progressives who do not

563
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: think that the state of Israel should exist. Those, by

564
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: the way, are comments based on him saying that we

565
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: shouldn't treat Israel special like everybody else, and by cutting

566
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 2: aid he means just normalizing it to everybody else.

567
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: Apparently a radical idea who is out.

568
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 2: There, And I will say, look on that one in particular,

569
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 2: I think that takes a hell of a lot of

570
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: courage in a Republican debate. That's actual America first principle,

571
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: if you were thinking about it ideologically consistently, something that

572
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: I would support. I think it also is a direct

573
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: signal to a lot of the donor class who was

574
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: obsessed with Israel that he's like, no, I'm not going

575
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: to be taking orders from you. That this is one

576
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: of those benefits of being independently welchaired. And it's a

577
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 2: direct contrast with Ron DeSantis because his constant attack against

578
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: Ron is you are a donor controlled actual machine and you.

579
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: I mean, look, let's think about the main thing that

580
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: DeSantis walked back in the entire all of his controversy.

581
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: He didn't necessarily he kind of walked away from Disney

582
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 2: because he said, quote, I've moved on from that after

583
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: he took a lot of heat for it. I think

584
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: that was both ideological but a lot of it was

585
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: Donor driven. But Ukraine to me was the big debarger point.

586
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 2: He said something marginally towards the restrictionist side of foreign

587
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: policy whenever it came to his Ukraine comments, and then

588
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: got flayed by the billionaires of the world, and he

589
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: walked it back.

590
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: I mean, that was a real weak moment for him.

591
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: Vivek, to his credit, has always been pretty consistent whenever

592
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 2: it came to a to Ukraine and about how this

593
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 2: isn't in America's national interest and pretty ideologically consistent on

594
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: this issue. So if you look at that within that

595
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: realm of the Israel comments now being the vector of

596
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 2: attack on Newsmax, I just think it's ridiculous. Also not

597
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 2: a surprise. Who is the only other candidate who criticized

598
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: Vague for this? Nikki Haley another shocker, just an absolute shocker.

599
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: Another person donor creation.

600
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: Donor creation and probably backed by more Neokon billionaires than

601
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: any other person in the race right now. So I

602
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: think that it is almost one hundred percent true. The

603
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: Perry Johnson critique is so obvious considering how many you know,

604
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: how many ads here man is thought. The funniest thing

605
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 2: is he claimed he'd qualify for the debate, and we've

606
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: now learned he actually hasn't qualified for the debate, So

607
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 2: it didn't even spend this money correctly, I guess, yeah,

608
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: maybe he's got to keep doing it if he wants

609
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: to rack it up. But and to be clear, you know,

610
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,719
Speaker 2: for the lawyers, Newsmax denies it. Chris Ruddy and them

611
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: say it's absolutely not true. Everybody claims there's like a

612
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: Chinese firewall and all that. But listen, it's business, you know,

613
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: when people are when your revenue is based on advertising dollars, well,

614
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: who pays you and who doesn't At the very least,

615
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: it's probably going to impact you, and specifically News Max

616
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: their entire thing. They're not in the same level of

617
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: cable carriage fees that Fox News and all those other

618
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: media organizations are. They're probably even a hell of a

619
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: lot more reliant on advertising dollars than any of their

620
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: oh yeah, competitors, or it makes it even more believable.

621
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: Usation Well and Ben Smith had previously profiled Chris Ruddy

622
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: and said basically like, this is the most shameless operator

623
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: I have ever encountered media, which is saying something because

624
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: Ben has encountered a lot of shameless operators during his time.

625
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: So you know, again, that's part of what makes it believable.

626
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: And I just want to say about Newsmax, I mean

627
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: they've positioned themselves for a right leaning or right wing

628
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: audience as like the real truth tellers you know, who

629
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: are going to give it to you straight, et cetera.

630
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: And I think you can just see in this all

631
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: of these allegations how sort of shameless they are, and

632
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: how all of their positioning, all of their so called

633
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: truth telling is really just about trying to make money

634
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: off of, you know, a particular audience and serving them

635
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: what they want to hear. To me, that that's part

636
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: of what really comes out here. And then the other pieces, Again,

637
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: it's not that the other networks probably don't do some

638
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: of the same in a slightly more you know, nuanced

639
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: and deniable way. But the fact that it's just so

640
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: blatant and brazen is really something like going all in

641
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: for Perry Johnson when he is buying so many ads

642
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: on your network, just makes it all pretty blatant and amazing.

643
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to say about the debates,

644
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: and again, we'll be doing a whole special on this,

645
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: so we'll save some of our thoughts for there. But

646
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be interesting to me, Sager, how much

647
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: wokeness comes up because DeSantis really launched his campaign like

648
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: Florida is where goes to die and vivage. What was

649
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: the name of woke Inc. Was the name of his

650
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: book that really catapulted him into like you know, conservative media, etc.

651
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: What started to get him the Daily Wire deal potentially

652
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: And a whole rash of polling has come out showing that, yeah,

653
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: Republicans are like concerned about but this is far from

654
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: their top issue. It does not seem to have really

655
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 1: landed even with the Republican base in terms of being

656
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: an issue that falls people to the front. Vivik seems

657
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: to be using that language less, Desanta seems to be

658
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: using that language less. So I'm interested to see how

659
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: much that comes up on the debate stage and how

660
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: much they've sort of internalized like this might not really

661
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: be the thing in the Republican primary.

662
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: I'm curious to see.

663
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, we'll save our thoughts with a

664
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: special again, you can sign up if you want to

665
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: take a look at that. It's going to be fun.

666
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: It's going to be all over our public channels tomorrow.

667
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: Let's go to real estate. This is a really interesting look,

668
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: one that we've course been trying to keep an eye on.

669
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: We referenced yesterday a whole segment about the economy and

670
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: how potential crash could come. But also you can't underestimate

671
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: the greedy heathens on Wall Street. Let's go ahead and

672
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen. Currently, Wall Street,

673
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: while simultaneously facing a debt bomb in terms of commercial

674
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: real estate, is now raising billions of dollars in funds

675
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: to target quote assets with slumping values. So really what

676
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: they're doing is that entire new hedge funds are popping

677
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: up to try and acquire quote office buildings, apartments, and

678
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: other troubled commercial real estate asset on the cheap at

679
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: a fraction of the price that the investors paid.

680
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: Just a few years ago.

681
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: Why this is noteworthy is that many people who are

682
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: on the bad side of the trade, even banks like

683
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: Goldman sacks we're holding a lot of commercial real estate debt,

684
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: are now trying to capitalize on the fact that the

685
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: debt might go bust to try and buy it and

686
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: squeeze as much value out of this as possible. What

687
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: they're saying is they quote several investment bankers and managers

688
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: in the real estate funds, and what they're talking about

689
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: is that they're trying to target the most troubled real

690
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 2: estate market that they've seen in decades. The thing is

691
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: that the original bad real estate crash happened in the

692
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: housing sector, in the personal realm, this one being entirely commercial.

693
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: They're now looking at it for vultures.

694
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why everyone should care about this

695
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: is note I didn't just talk about office buildings.

696
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 3: You know, boohoo in some cases.

697
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: For office buildings, although you know there's some relative like

698
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: mom and pop ish type people who do run those,

699
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: it's really apartment buildings. If a lot of these apartment

700
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: buildings continue to get scooped up by these big hedge funds,

701
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: they're going to try and squeeze even more of the

702
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 2: value out of that as possible. It means they're going

703
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: to lower services, they're going to jack up rents, they're

704
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 2: going to continue to make sure they use how zoning

705
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: regulation and all that to make sure that their premium

706
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: remains high. So we should not be cheering, you know,

707
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: distress assets being purchased by a bunch of Wall Street

708
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: funds and billionaires just because some people on Wall Street

709
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: will lose some money on one side of the trade.

710
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: Other people are looking at this as a major, major

711
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: opportunity to come in and buy.

712
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

713
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: No, that's a really good point, and it's something we've

714
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: covered on this show. When permanent Capital ends up being

715
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: your landlord, oftentimes the results are completely disastrous. Many of

716
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: these companies use algorithms to jack up rents the absolute

717
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: maximum amount that they possibly can, So they're running software programs,

718
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: and what they've found is that it's worth it to

719
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: actually price people out of some of their apartments in

720
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 1: order to extract most rent out of the tenants that

721
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: they do have that are able to afford it. So

722
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: that's one piece of it, is, you know, jacking up

723
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: rents to astronomical rates, and when you have you know,

724
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: the same permanent capital institutions owning many of the apartment

725
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 1: buildings in one town, then they basically get control over

726
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: the market and they have market power to set what

727
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: the going rate of rent is to start with.

728
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 4: So that's number one.

729
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: Number two, there's all kinds of reporting also about how

730
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 1: you know they they look to cut costs, of course,

731
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: in every single way possible. So if you've got a problem,

732
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: if you've got mold growing, if you've got a plumbing issue,

733
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: if you've got peeling pain, whatever, it is very unlikely

734
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: that they're going to like hop to and take care

735
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: of the issue or do it in any sort of

736
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: a really you know, effective and sustainable way. So that's

737
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: another piece of this, and then bigger picture in terms

738
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: of the economy, we've been covering this commercial real estate

739
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: potential debt bomb for a few months now, and the

740
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: trend up to this point has been that the people

741
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: who own these buildings have been holding out in terms

742
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: of selling, hoping that things turn, hoping maybe interest rates

743
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: come down and they can you know, refinance, hoping that

744
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: something will change so that they don't have to sell

745
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: at what are rock bottom prices, and the early indications

746
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: from this report is that that phase seems to be ending,

747
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: and now the phase of people being forced to sell

748
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: at you know, extremely low valuations is here. So that

749
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: marks a real turning point in the market. They give

750
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: an example, an owner of a downtown San Francisco office

751
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: tower unloaded the property for forty one million dollars to

752
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: a large developer, Presidio Bay. The seller, Clarion Partners, had

753
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: purchased the property for one hundred and seven million dollars

754
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen.

755
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 4: So back in twenty fourteen.

756
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: This thing at market value is one hundred and seven

757
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: million dollars. They just sold it for forty one I

758
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: mean that just getting grand. And San Francisco's one of

759
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: the hardest hit markets in the entire country in terms

760
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: of vacancy rates, et cetera. But when you look at

761
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: those kind of valuation crashes, it's a scary scenario in

762
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: terms of what some of the downstream effects of that

763
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: could potentially be.

764
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and you know, if you put it

765
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: together with some other things, there could be a potential

766
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 2: benefit here as long as some of this gets converted

767
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: to housing. I did want to give us a rare

768
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: shout out, I think to Mayor Eric Adams, but a

769
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: new program which I am definitely supportive of. Let's go

770
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 2: ahead and put this up there on the screen. In

771
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: New York City, Adams has now unveiled a proposal to

772
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: convert vacant offices to housing through a city action in

773
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 2: called the City of Yes Plans. So basically, the plan

774
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: that Adams has laid out is that they're going to

775
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: take multiple neighborhoods, mostly in the Midtown area, that are

776
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: the most empty. They're going to fast track regulatory approval

777
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: and keep out some of the housing problems that have

778
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: plagued New York City, rent control, all these other things

779
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: that have kept the housing stock particularly low and not

780
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: growing over the last couple of years, and immediately convert

781
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: issue permits for construction, reorganization in and turn these places

782
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: into housing. Twenty four billion dollars currently being appropriated for

783
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: affordable housing as part of the program. But I do

784
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: think that there are a couple of things that we

785
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: have to at least shout out. From what I have read,

786
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: one of the biggest issues in converting office space into

787
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: housing comes down to like window space, lighting and the

788
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: inner areas of these buildings would basically have to be

789
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: commun have to be converted to more communal type areas

790
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: where you wouldn't actually be able to use the of

791
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: majority of some of this real estate as housing. It's

792
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: really the outer rings. So the construction cost of conversion

793
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: is a lot higher than people think. It's not just

794
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: you can't just PLoP a, you know, an office building

795
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: and PLoP a bunch of apartment building inside, like, yeah,

796
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: go live in a box with no.

797
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: Light in it.

798
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure New York City would love to

799
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: sell that to you, but I think legally they're not.

800
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: I have to think plumbing is an issue too, because

801
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: a building you might have like one or two bathrooms

802
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: on the whole floor whatever.

803
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: There's a lot that goes into it.

804
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 6: Yeah.

805
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 2: That said, it's an innovative plan and I'd like it.

806
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: I like at least the thinking of, like, hey, let's

807
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: do it. You know, we've got one of the most

808
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: expensive housing markets in the entire country. And one of

809
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: the reasons why I think it's important is Manhattan has

810
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: two paths. They can either go down this and actually

811
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: make it a place to live. And I know a

812
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: lot of people were young and live. They love it

813
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 2: there even now continue My own sister lives there. The issue, though,

814
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 2: is it's exorbitantly expensive and continues to be so.

815
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Rent increase there's like thirty forty percent.

816
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 2: And the only other avenue that they had in order

817
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: to raise the tax revenue was to basically make it

818
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: even more of a playground for the rich and just

819
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: make it the ultimate party destination for people who want

820
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: to stay out until four am or whatever.

821
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: Was the Bloomberg model that was to like intentionally make

822
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: it a make Manhattan a luxury good.

823
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 2: And it worked and they made a lot of money,

824
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: but then a lot of those people with money moved

825
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: to Florida during the pandemic.

826
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 3: So now what you know.

827
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: It's like it turns out that these people are very

828
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: fickle getting roots and actually turning into more of a

829
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: place that you can live.

830
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 3: That's one of the original conceptions of New York.

831
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: It's like the original like thing that people who grew

832
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: up there really feel attached to. So I did want

833
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: to shout out this plan because I think it's I

834
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: think it's a good idea.

835
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I lived there for a number of

836
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: years and I loved it.

837
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 4: I mean, once it.

838
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: Took me a lot of get used to the just

839
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: because I'm from the country, and it was like a

840
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: whole overwhelming experience. But once I did, I really did

841
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: love the energy of living in Manhattan. So you know,

842
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: to have to have any sort of attempt to keep

843
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: the vitality, restore some of the vitality, make it a

844
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: place that young people or families potentially could live.

845
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 4: I think that's really good.

846
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: I do want to say, I think there's a lot

847
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: of limitations here because all they're doing is they're changing

848
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: some of the zoning regulations. I'll redo the specifics they

849
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: say they're going to make it so that buildings that

850
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: were built as recently as nineteen ninety could be converted

851
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: to housing right now, I don't know why. Only buildings

852
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: built between before nineteen seventy seven or nineteen sixty one

853
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: are eligible, depending on where they are in the city.

854
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: So you can see there's like a tangle of zoning

855
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: regulations that make this difficult. The city would also allow

856
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: buildings to convert to housing anywhere in the city if

857
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: the zoning regulations already allow for residential So they're making

858
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: some zoning changes here, But I think it's a very

859
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: difficult thing for any city to really accomplish on their

860
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: own without state or federal assistance.

861
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 4: There were a number of efforts.

862
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: Also, I want to be clear, this still has to

863
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: be approved by the city council, so this isn't even

864
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: a done deal yet, and housing issues are always incredibly sticky,

865
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: so we'll see whether it actually even passes. There were

866
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: several plans put forward at the New York state level,

867
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: pushed by Governor Kathy Hochel, that failed that would have

868
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: provided some financial incentives for developers to make these sort

869
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: of expensive, costly conversions from office space to residentials.

870
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 4: So those failed.

871
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: So there's no money involved here, and as you're pointing out, Soccer,

872
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: the conversions are very expensive. So we'll see if the

873
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: math ends up working out for this to actually shift

874
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: the balance here whatsoever. When you don't have state or

875
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: federal money backing up an attempted transition, my guesses, is

876
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: probably not really going to be anywhere close to sufficient

877
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: to induce developers to do what you want them to do.

878
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: But it's an experiment. I appreciate that they're trying, and

879
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: we'll keep an eye and.

880
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 4: Safe it works.

881
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: So let's try it. If it fails, so be it.

882
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: But you know, right now it's a crisis and it's

883
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: not working. So let's continue down there and I'll continue

884
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: to try it. At least give credit to people who

885
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 2: are trying something innovative and interesting. Let's go to the

886
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: next one here on China. This is something that I

887
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: know a lot of you were interested in, and the

888
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: ongoing is to lead up to the Bricks Summit in

889
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: South Africa is actually an area of great interest. Bricks

890
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: for people who don't recall, was a phrase that was

891
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: coined on Wall Street in two thousand and seven. It

892
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: referred to Brazil, India, China, and South Africa as the

893
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: bricks nations that we're going to continue to grow. Now

894
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on, sorry, Russia as well in that.

895
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 3: One of the ones. There's a lot going on in

896
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: terms of those countries.

897
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 2: It hasn't necessarily worked out in the same way, but

898
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: one thing that does kind of unite all of those

899
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: powers is that they are relatively independent of the West.

900
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: They have pretty good economic growth outside of Russia. I guess, well,

901
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: it depends, I guess in terms of this quarter, and

902
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 2: those nations are embracing the label as an alternative to

903
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 2: the Western economic system, while some of them want to maintain.

904
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: Ties to the West. Anyway, let's go and put this

905
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 3: up there on the screen.

906
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 2: China is currently urging the Bricks to become an explicit

907
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 2: geopolitical rival to the G seven. And the reason why

908
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: this is interesting is it actually has opened up all

909
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: sorts of tensions even within the Bricks system themselves. One

910
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 2: of the current debates is whether the Bricks Summit should

911
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 2: invite multiple other nations into Bricks. They want to invite

912
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: places like Argentina, other countries that are developing, and what

913
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,360
Speaker 2: China wants to do is use the Bricks as an

914
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 2: alternative to the G seven, as an explicit counterweight and

915
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: saying no, these are the emerging nations of the world.

916
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 2: We're kind of uniting together in a non Western aligned system.

917
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: We reject your economic sanctions, we reject or dominance of

918
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 2: the global economic system.

919
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 3: We're building something alternatively.

920
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: The reason why it's interesting is that the split inside

921
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: of Bricks is South Africa and India both have very

922
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 2: different postures. South Africa is like, no, we're not anti

923
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: Western at all. Makes sense because they actually have a

924
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 2: lot of trade with the West. Also India, they don't

925
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: want to be a Chinese vassal. They don't necessarily even

926
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: want an alternative to the G seven. They're one of

927
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: the largest economies on Earth. They continue to have budding

928
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 2: in good relations with the West.

929
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: Their main goal.

930
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: Is to pursue an independent foreign policy in economics, both

931
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: of China and of the Western system. China explicitly is

932
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: anti Western. Russia, of course is also anti Western. So

933
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: it's really like China and Russia. But then you have

934
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: South Africa and India. There's a lot of beef in

935
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: there about India doesn't necessarily want this to be a

936
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: new G seven. So the reason why I think it's

937
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: just interesting is we always have to keep our eye

938
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,399
Speaker 2: on the emerging.

939
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: Alternative systems to what's happening here.

940
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 2: We can all agree that declining influence of the West

941
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 2: is happening to what the extent and degree, who knows.

942
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: I mean, the one you could look at the sanctions

943
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: on Russia's a failure, I personally do, because they haven't

944
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: actually achieved their main goal, which is stopping Russia from

945
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: attacking Ukraine.

946
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: But you could also.

947
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 2: See it as look, you still had the anvil you

948
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: could come down, you could cut off this country virtually overnight.

949
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 3: That is a lot of power.

950
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 2: You know, you hobbled their ability to conduct trade, but

951
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: of course they've still been able to.

952
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 3: Trade with countries like China and Russia.

953
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: And how the bricks decides to conceive of itself and

954
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: move forward, especially in the context of a no longer

955
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: exploding economic growth China is going to be one of

956
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: the defining issues of like what multipolarity looks like in

957
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: the future and is it going to be a block

958
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: is it going to be individual states. I come down

959
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: on the individual states given the level of strife that's

960
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: happening inside.

961
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: But I'm curious what you thought of this.

962
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 4: That's interesting.

963
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a question mark two about whether Brazil wants

964
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: to be more in that antagonistic side. Are more on that,

965
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: like we just want to have building some more resilience

966
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: basically and have options other than the West. So they're

967
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 1: planning on potentially invit other countries to join this emerging group,

968
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: and there's also a lot of tension and a lot

969
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: of discussions about Okay, well, what would that criteria be,

970
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: who would we include, what would the pathway to membership be?

971
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: So are a lot of big questions here. One of the

972
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: pieces that I found really interesting as well is there's

973
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: a lot of talk globally about de dollarization, right trying

974
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: to move away from the US currency as the world's

975
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: reserve currency. They say that a common currency not on

976
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: the agenda here, but they're going to have a broader

977
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: push towards de dollarization. They could focus on seeking an

978
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: agreement that BRICKS members should increasingly settle trade between each

979
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: other in their local currencies. Officials familiar with discussions said,

980
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: right now, basically dollars and TA bills are used to

981
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: settle trade differences between countries all around the world. So

982
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: what they're trying to move towards is we're not going

983
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: to rely on that. Instead, we're going to use our

984
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: own local currencies. And even without moving towards some sort

985
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: of common currency, that in and of itself is really

986
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: quite significant.

987
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 4: So look, to me, this is just the budding.

988
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: Realization of a multipolar world that in many ways is

989
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: already here. Even if China, even if China continues to

990
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: struggle economically, their growth significantly reduced, even if they continue

991
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: to struggle with this, you know, these debt loads that

992
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: they have in terms of their real estate and in

993
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: terms of infrastructure. Even if it really does continue down

994
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: this path, when you combine this block together, this is

995
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,720
Speaker 1: a lot of economic might. This is a massive amount

996
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: of GDP, and it is somewhat of a counterweight to

997
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,959
Speaker 1: the US and somewhat of an alternative for people who

998
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: don't want to have to effectively koutou or whatever the

999
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: US wants.

1000
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and let's put this up there on the screen.

1001
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 2: This is a fantastic feature piece over at the Wall

1002
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: Street Journal. I encourage everybody's interest to go read it.

1003
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 2: It's called China's forty or boom is over what comes next?

1004
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: It's basically a lot of speculation as to forty years

1005
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: of booming economic growth is now definitively come to an end.

1006
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: The current IMF trajectory puts China's growth at below four

1007
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 2: percent in the coming years, quote than half of its

1008
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 2: tally for most of the past four decades. Current feature

1009
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: of current trends show that growth has slowed down from

1010
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 2: three percent from five percent just in twenty nineteen and

1011
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: will fall to just two percent and twenty thirty, making

1012
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: it a fully developed economy.

1013
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: What does that actually look like? And what is what

1014
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 3: are people going to do?

1015
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: The thing is, I've said this before, one of the

1016
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 2: explicit deals the CCP made was, Yeah, you're gonna be

1017
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: surveiled wherever you go, and we're going to make you rich.

1018
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 2: We're going to make you from poor to middle class

1019
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 2: and in many cases upper middle class. And for the rich,

1020
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: you're going to go from like marginal rich to some

1021
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: of the world's greatest billionaires and richest people on planet Earth.

1022
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 3: That was a great deal for a lot of people.

1023
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 3: What does it look like now?

1024
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 2: And with the middle class in particular in China really

1025
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 2: chafing at some of the housing crisis going on, at

1026
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: the real estate booms and busts and kind of the

1027
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: wild economic stuff that's been wrought post COVID, it's an

1028
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 2: open question of what does the new social contract look

1029
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: like inside of China? Right? And that social contract also

1030
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: comes down to what does their foreign policy look like?

1031
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 2: Much of China's foreign policy over the last forty years

1032
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 2: has been one entirely of economics. They basically economically took

1033
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 2: over the US and destroyed the industrial middle class by

1034
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: buying off our politicians and by being smart by subsidizing

1035
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: their own industry. The trick only works once they used

1036
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: it in Africa and elsewhere they've got the debt. But really,

1037
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: what I think it points to is the thesis that

1038
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: as economic growth and all that starts to slow down,

1039
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: and as the economic power that you've been able to

1040
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 2: wield just goes down, well what do you turn to.

1041
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: You turn towards your herd assets, and you turn towards

1042
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: your military. So this is the thing about multipolarity is

1043
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 2: that you can actually see more conflict in all that

1044
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: in the system whenever states begin to decline in overall

1045
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 2: influence and whenever they're increasing with relative peace over the

1046
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: last twenty five years or so. So the question though is,

1047
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: you know, look, they could go the other way and

1048
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 2: they'd be like, we're all making a lot of money.

1049
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 2: Everyone here is becoming rich. We could become like Japan

1050
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 2: will slow down. But Japan is a first world nation. Yeah,

1051
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: they've got demographic problem, They've got all this, But last

1052
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 2: time I checked, is one of the cleanest and nicest

1053
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: places literally on earth, according to everybody I know who's

1054
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: ever been there. They have a lot of different choices

1055
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 2: about which way that they want to go.

1056
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, the problem is that Japan reached a level of

1057
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: per capita income right before their big slow down that

1058
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: China is nowhere close to achieving. I mean, if you

1059
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: look per capita, China still hasn't even reached like middle

1060
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: income status, even though you know, they've done a tremendous

1061
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: amount to lift their own people out of poverty. Much

1062
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: of the world growth and improvement and living standards is

1063
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: located just in the nation of China. But they aren't

1064
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 1: at that level that Japan was at when their slow

1065
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: down began. So that's part of what makes this very difficult.

1066
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I said this before, but just as a reminder,

1067
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: the way that this worked out with Chinese growth is,

1068
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: you know, first they really build out their industrial manufacturing capacity,

1069
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: basically took that as far as they could. Then they

1070
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: built out all of this infrastructure. And there are some

1071
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: anecdotes in here in the Wall Street Journal piece that

1072
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: are pretty wild. They just built a COVID nineteen quarantine

1073
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: facility and one province that's nearly the site is the

1074
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: size of three football fields, despite China having already ended

1075
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 1: its zero COVID policy months ago, long after the world

1076
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: has moved on from the pandemic and other localities are

1077
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: doing the same about one fifth of apartments. So after

1078
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: infrastructure was like overbuilt, then they moved on to all right,

1079
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: we'll build out housing like crazy. About a fifth of

1080
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: apartments in urban China one hundred and thirty million units

1081
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: or so are unoccupied. So, you know, massively built out

1082
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 1: real estate created this huge debt bubble that she has

1083
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: really been trying to deflate, allowing Evergrand to effectively go bust.

1084
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: Country Garden also having issues, you know, these shadow banks

1085
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: having issues now as well, so that has sort of

1086
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 1: reached its end. And this is, like I said, it's

1087
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: very intentional. God put the Bloomberg piece up on the screen,

1088
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: because what they point to here is that she, unlike Biden,

1089
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: is trying to run the economy here very hot, you know,

1090
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: with the infrastructure, with the Inflation Reduction Act, trying to

1091
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: inject money, continuing to inject money into the economy, having

1092
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 1: some sort of butting industrial policy. Jijinping is letting China's

1093
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: economy flail. And the bet is here that they can

1094
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: engineer some sort of a somewhat soft landing in terms

1095
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 1: of the apartment real estate residential bubble, and they are

1096
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: investing a lot in effectively renewable energy. I mean making

1097
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: a big bet on electric vehicles, big bet on solar

1098
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: and wind power, big bet on the batteries that are

1099
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: critical to all of this. I mean, they are really

1100
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: pushing forward to make that the new sector.

1101
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 4: But the question is, isn't enough?

1102
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: Is that enough to really provide jobs and middle class

1103
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: for all of the people who are getting college degrees

1104
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: and who are aspiring to be part of that middle

1105
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: class in a country with such a large population. The

1106
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: answer is probably, know what a lot of Western economists

1107
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 1: have been sort of urging the Chinese government the direction

1108
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: to go in is to, you know, create a more

1109
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 1: consumer driven economy like we have here. So basically Chinese

1110
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 1: citizens tend to save a lot more than we do here,

1111
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: So it's like, find ways to induce them to buy

1112
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of consumer goods and crap and go into

1113
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: debt the way that we have here, and they're resistant

1114
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: to that idea, I think for a lot of good reasons.

1115
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 4: But it creates a bit of.

1116
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: A conundrum in terms of how they'll be able to

1117
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: continue to build on a middle class, how they'll be

1118
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: able to maintain any sort of the social contract that

1119
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: they've had and whether or not they're going to be

1120
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 1: able to continue even you know, modest growth, let alone

1121
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: the really rapid growth that they have gotten used to

1122
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 1: over the past number of years.

1123
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot.

1124
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 2: I mean, anyway, it's going to be one of the

1125
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 2: most defining questions of like how this plays out, what

1126
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: Shei Shehingping decides to do. On the one hand, we

1127
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 2: have this we put this up there on the screen

1128
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 2: from Bloomberg. What Bloomberg really showed is that she sing

1129
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: as you were talking about, they've decided to run it cold.

1130
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 3: They want to stop some of.

1131
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 2: The apartment buildings from basically running their economy. Real estate

1132
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 2: is too overly penetrated whenever it comes to their overall

1133
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 2: GDP growth, and they're making a conscious decision and trying

1134
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 2: to do a full blown, almost planned model of slowing

1135
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: things down and moving things into the future.

1136
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 3: So they're not freaking out as of yet.

1137
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 2: But as Peter's Ion has talked about, they have a

1138
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: lot of structural problems behind them. Their demographic problem is

1139
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 2: worse than Japan right now in terms of the mismatch.

1140
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: Now they're decelerating dramatically in terms of growth. Can they

1141
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: keep a hold on the population, and then what do

1142
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: they do abroad? You know, how do they unite keep

1143
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 2: the population united. These are big, big questions historically, of

1144
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 2: which you know is going to have massive consequence for

1145
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: all of us.

1146
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, this is another one that could have massive consequences

1147
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: for all of us. New research into the impact of

1148
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: screen time on really young children, really on babies.

1149
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 4: Let's put this up on the screen.

1150
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: So new study just came out the headline here screen

1151
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: time at age one year and communication, problem solving, developmental

1152
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: delay at two and four years. So they found that

1153
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: the more screen time that young babies one years old have,

1154
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: the more developmental delays that they experience from ages two

1155
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: to four years in communication and problem solving. So this

1156
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: is really significant. It backs up a number of other

1157
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: studies that have shown similar results in terms of longer

1158
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: screen time leading to some developmental delays. But one thing

1159
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: that I thought was interesting here sober is that they

1160
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: actually try to separate out not all screen time is

1161
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: the same, and they found that if you put your

1162
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: kids in front of things that are more educational, it

1163
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: really reduces the negative impact and in fact can actually

1164
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: improve some communication and problem solving and particular language skills

1165
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: in that critical age of two to four years. So

1166
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: I appreciate it that they put that part in there

1167
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: because they sort of acknowledge like, in the modern world,

1168
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: you are fighting a losing battle if you're trying to

1169
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 1: keep your kids away from screens, Like as a parent,

1170
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: I can tell you it is damn near impossible.

1171
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 4: So if you can.

1172
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: Focus on what's the quality of the content that my

1173
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: kids are engaging with, that my very young children in

1174
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: particular are engaging with, at least you have a fighting

1175
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: chance and can be armed with some knowledge that's actually

1176
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: useful instead of just being like, I don't know what

1177
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: to do. I give up, this is impossible.

1178
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 3: That was my question. You know what coounts as educational.

1179
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 2: I know that they're like games and different iPad things

1180
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,760
Speaker 2: and stuff that you can do, but also it seems

1181
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: very difficult just anecdotally watching my friends who do have

1182
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 2: kids kids have you know, their grubby little hands are

1183
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 2: always over your phone. Oh yeah, and they're always it's

1184
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 2: like if you don't watch them like a hawk, next

1185
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 2: thing you know, they're on TikTok like it's like every

1186
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: single time. And then the level of just being around

1187
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 2: young kids trying to circumvent the parents be like hey,

1188
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 2: can I have your phone? I'm like why, and it's like, oh,

1189
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: they want to go on Instagram and you know, I'm

1190
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 2: like okay, sure whatever, just give them the phone. Next

1191
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:11,879
Speaker 2: thing you know, they've been on Instagram for the last

1192
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: like thirty five minutes, or on YouTube without parental locks.

1193
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 2: It does seem like this option takes a tremendous amount

1194
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 2: of just watching. You're like you have to watch and

1195
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 2: be like are you what are you doing? How can

1196
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: you curate this? And they're smart. They always are like

1197
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: working around the system and their controls and what they're

1198
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 2: allowed to do and what they're not allowed to do.

1199
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: I know somebody who actually I think they have a

1200
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 2: four year old and their kid has never used a

1201
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 2: phone or an iPad. What's interesting, and they are very concerted.

1202
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: So they have a lot of books and toys. It's

1203
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: always a big thing if you have a babysitter because

1204
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 2: they're like, no phone, no iPad. It's like, this is

1205
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 2: how we do our things. But even though the kid

1206
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: has never used the phone, when they see their parents

1207
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 2: on phones, they always reach for even though they've never

1208
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: experienced it.

1209
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 4: Well, that's it.

1210
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 3: That is crazy to.

1211
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: Me because I'm like, wow, they don't even know what's

1212
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: on the phone. They just know it's interesting and they

1213
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,720
Speaker 2: could see that the way the parents use their phones

1214
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 2: right there, and they know it's an object of interest.

1215
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: And that kind of freaked me out because I'm like, wow,

1216
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 2: like they have a deep intuition that this is like

1217
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,760
Speaker 2: the greatest entertainment device ever made.

1218
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: Well, i mean, what kids are. They're a little sponges,

1219
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: and they're trying to figure out how to be in

1220
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: the world and what to do and how to operate.

1221
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: And so when they see us really engaged in this

1222
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: or really engage in this or whatever, that's what they do.

1223
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: They mimic their parents, and they mimic what's around them

1224
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: to try to figure out, you know, how to be

1225
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: in the world. And so yeah, of course, when and

1226
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: even if you and your household are like I'm not

1227
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: going to.

1228
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 4: Be on my phone when I'm around my children, which

1229
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 4: good luck.

1230
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: You know, when you're out in the world, guess what

1231
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: they're going to see every other adult and teenager and

1232
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: whatever out on their phone. So that's why I feel

1233
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: like it is fighting a losing battle, and there's also

1234
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: a part of me that you know, there's a balance

1235
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: between limiting the screen time, trying to improve the quality

1236
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: of the screen time that they are inevitably going to get,

1237
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: and you know, doing the best that you can. But

1238
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: there's also this is the world that we live in,

1239
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: and they are going to need to navigate these devices.

1240
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: They are going to need to be digital natives in

1241
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: order to effectively operate in the world that we live

1242
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: in too, So that is a part of.

1243
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 4: It as well. But you know, I uh had three kids.

1244
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: One of them, my son is the one who is

1245
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, he is a junkie, like I really have

1246
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: to He's the one. The two girls, I don't actually

1247
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: have an issue with Ida, the youngest, she will want

1248
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: to watch she really loves these like Ninja kids videos

1249
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: because she's very into gymnastics. So she'll watch them for

1250
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: a while and then she's done, and then she wants

1251
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: to actually go out in the world and do her

1252
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: own like cartwheels and flips and whatever. My son, though,

1253
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: he will stay on there endlessly, and he has always

1254
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 1: been this way. Now, I will say when he was young,

1255
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: he was actually obsessed with these.

1256
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 4: Like letter and word apps.

1257
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: That was what he spent the bulk of his time

1258
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: on and I do think because of that, he was

1259
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: like an early reader, and you know, he was early

1260
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: to some of those skills that have really helped him

1261
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,959
Speaker 1: in terms of his academics. So it wasn't all bad

1262
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: and all downside. But to your point, Sager, you know,

1263
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: he likes chess, so will watch these chess videos, which

1264
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm fine with. But then the next thing, I know,

1265
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, the bottom of the barrel type

1266
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: so YouTube content, it just evolves very quickly. And even

1267
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: if you're watching chess videos was relatively educational, like okay,

1268
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 1: watch him for an hour, maybe that's fine, but he

1269
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: would watch them endlessly. So it's just a contant battle.

1270
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: I appreciate that there's more research being done because I

1271
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: do think this is one of the central issues and

1272
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: central struggles of our time is like what is this

1273
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: doing in kids' brains? What are some reasonable, like sustainable

1274
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: interventions that parents can deploy, tools parents can use, What

1275
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: sort of regulation needs to be put in place, because

1276
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: as you get older, we also see more and more

1277
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: research that you know, anxiety and teenagers and suicide and

1278
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: teenagers and all of these horrible mental health outcomes really

1279
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: spiked around the time that smartphones became widespread and social

1280
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: media became so such a central part of our lives,

1281
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: and it started to be really gamified with algorithms and

1282
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: like really pitched at keeping you sort of emotionally engaged

1283
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: and emotionally overwrought all the time. So to me, this

1284
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: is one of the central issues that no one has

1285
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: great answers for and everybody's still struggling with.

1286
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, you know, for people who are

1287
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: asking questions, it's a high quality study. It's several thousand

1288
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: children that they tracked, you know, in terms of the

1289
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: developmental the actual like benchmarks and all the things. It

1290
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: seemed quite reasonable what they were measuring. I think we

1291
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: probably do need a hell of a lot more research.

1292
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 2: It's also it's one of those difficult as you said,

1293
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: keeping it completely off is hard also, but you know,

1294
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 2: you have to have sustainable intervention. The people I feel

1295
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: for are like people who are in a situation where clearly,

1296
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 2: you know, their children are actoring out and they're in public,

1297
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 2: So playing is the most classical.

1298
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the easiest thing to do.

1299
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: You shove an iPad in the kids, you know, hand,

1300
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: it's like five six hours. Like, well, it's not necessarily

1301
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 2: the best thing. Now we're breaking routines, and there's a

1302
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on. You're at dinner or you're

1303
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 2: in a restaurant, and I feel for a lot of

1304
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: these parents, I think it's probably one of it's incredibly

1305
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 2: difficult to navigate this. So yeah, I mean thinking and

1306
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: looking at it anecdotally, this is one of the big

1307
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 2: questions for young parents. They all they don't know what

1308
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 2: to do. Yeah, and they're dealing with infants here, you know,

1309
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: they just they really have no idea. How should the phone,

1310
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 2: should we check the phones in front of our kids?

1311
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 2: How do we handle even in the car, even even

1312
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 2: the car has screens. I've had some kids in my car.

1313
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 2: They're always playing around with these screens. Immediately they're like

1314
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: they know exactly what to do and they're going towards it.

1315
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of stunning actually to watch just how

1316
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: quickly they can pick up on it and how they've

1317
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 2: watched videos on YouTube about how to navigate.

1318
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1319
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: Screen, well, I've noticed with my kids if they have

1320
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: too much screen time, So like we have rules in

1321
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: the house about no screen time in the morning, because

1322
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: if they have to screen time like to start their day,

1323
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: they are like little junkies. Like the reward system in

1324
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: the brain that they're getting from these videos or gains

1325
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: or whatever they're doing.

1326
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 4: It really is.

1327
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: Like the same biological response as if they were having

1328
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: some sort of mild drug. The more and it makes

1329
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,439
Speaker 1: them the behavior deteriorates if they have too much screen time.

1330
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: I notice really really clearly, so you know, even anecdotally,

1331
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 1: just day to day, you can tell it is having

1332
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: an impact on them. So, you know, we just try

1333
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: to put some reasonable limits in and do the best

1334
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: we can because I do think in a lot of

1335
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: ways it is like a losing uphill battle, and it

1336
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: just helps to be armed with as much information as

1337
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: we possibly can can be as we navigate this landscape.

1338
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely well said all right, mister Beast, this is the

1339
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 3: funniest thing. Our producers brought it to our attention.

1340
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 2: Mister Beast, as he does, he produces, you know videos,

1341
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 2: often ostentatious, big, you know, entertaining videos. He recently dropped

1342
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 2: a video where every country on Earth is competing for

1343
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 2: the gold in a mister Beast Olympics.

1344
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 3: Here's a little bit of a tease that he put out.

1345
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 2: I flew down one person from every country on Earth

1346
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 2: and they.

1347
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 3: Have to compete in the most extreme.

1348
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 4: Version of the Olympics. If you've ever created last Country

1349
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 4: standing with this two hundred and fifty thousand dollars golden method,

1350
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 4: Oh go, go, go.

1351
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 3: Go, whatis country takes on the goal?

1352
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 6: Now?

1353
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: The funny thing is is that I doubt mister Beast

1354
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 2: and this team realized the geopolitical controversy they were weighing

1355
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 2: into whenever they decided to not only hold the Olympics

1356
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 2: but also produce some maps. So one user actually did

1357
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 2: a great job of digging into this. Let's go and

1358
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen. This video has

1359
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: chosen has waded into every geopolitical conflict all at once.

1360
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 2: So this is the definitive take. I think here mister Beast,

1361
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,479
Speaker 2: the most watched YouTuber. I think he's finally settled several

1362
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 2: disputes for us. Who's the country and who's began to

1363
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 2: go through? Let's put this up there on the screen.

1364
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 2: He does recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea, but does not

1365
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: recognize the four separatist republics that putin recently adopted into Russia.

1366
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 3: Let's go to the next one. So that's one.

1367
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 2: He does recognize Palestine, but only in the West Bank.

1368
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 3: As its country. Okay, compromising, he's already brought us world peace.

1369
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 2: Let's go to the next one. He does not recognize Taiwan.

1370
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 2: Now you would think, oh, my gosh, is mister Beach

1371
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 2: kowtowing to China?

1372
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 3: What exactly is going on here?

1373
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 2: It's pretty clear here he's not just sucking up, you know,

1374
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: to one particular ideology, as we can see from the

1375
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 2: next one. Let's put this up there. He does recognize

1376
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 2: the Taliban government. Okay, let's move on now to my

1377
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 2: personal favorite. Mister Beach does recognize the State of Georgia,

1378
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 2: the sovereign state of Georgia. However, he uses the flag

1379
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 2: of the US State of Georgia by said un three

1380
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 2: of Georgia. Interesting, and that pretty much brings us to

1381
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: an ed. So Christal, what's your what's you take here?

1382
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 2: I think mister Beast has just brought us world peace.

1383
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 2: He's solved every major geopolical unwittingly and most likely due

1384
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: to one of his researchers.

1385
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 3: He probably didn't even think about this.

1386
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I love. I mean the the accepts Hong Kong,

1387
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 4: but not Taiwan.

1388
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 3: Except Hong Kong not Taiwan. You know what I was saying,

1389
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 3: He use a British supremacist.

1390
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: You know what I'm hanging on in a since it

1391
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: was genius because it's clearly non ideal. It's just it's

1392
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: just completely random, and if it was anything other than random,

1393
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: it would have actually been controversy.

1394
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.

1395
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 4: But since it's just.

1396
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:16,919
Speaker 1: Like Hong Kong, sure, Taiwan, no, Palestine, Okay, but only

1397
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: in the West, bed Prime sure, you know Luhansk. No,

1398
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: just because it's like totally non ideological and random, it

1399
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: actually is the perfect plan. Yes, because if you did

1400
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: it in some sort of like a concerted fashion, actually

1401
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: weighing these individual claims and having some sort of a

1402
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: like coherent foreign policy view worldview that was applied to this,

1403
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: then it would be controversial. But since he didn't do that,

1404
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 1: it ends up just being funny.

1405
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 3: That's right.

1406
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 2: I also I was looking for some controversy around the

1407
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 2: line of control on Pakistan and on India.

1408
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 4: Oh, that's a hot one. Could you tell? Could you

1409
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 4: discern the maps are a little.

1410
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 2: Hard, The maps aren't the screenshots and all those that

1411
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 2: we gathered weren't the best.

1412
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think if there were any other shout outs.

1413
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, here's one recognizing Western Sahara up but also

1414
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 2: recognizes Morocco's claims on a de facto border, which is

1415
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 2: one that cuts against what both of those two want.

1416
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 2: So geography nerds got a lot they could say out

1417
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 2: of this, but I actually thought it was It was

1418
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 2: almost like sweet in terms of its naivete and yeah interest,

1419
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 2: where you know it's the biggest stuff, the biggest YouTuber

1420
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 2: in the world, but also clearly you know he's doing

1421
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 2: this for fun, He's doing it for a lark, and

1422
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: I actually appreciate that no major controversy is coming with this.

1423
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 2: Like remember when Vietnam bought banned the Barbie movie over

1424
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 2: its map because they were like, oh, the Barbie.

1425
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 3: Movies map didn't show show.

1426
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 2: The line of whatever, the nine dash line or for

1427
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 2: the South chrying to see. I'm like, it's a freaking

1428
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 2: cartoon map. Yeah, and it's one of those where, look,

1429
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 2: I'm the first guy. If they actually did kowtow to

1430
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 2: China and all that, I would call it out one

1431
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 2: hundred percent I've done a lot of stuff here, but

1432
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: it is so clear to me. It's like from Greta

1433
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 2: Gerwig and all this. They didn't think about it for

1434
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 2: a single second if.

1435
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 4: You were seeing this map.

1436
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: It was hilarious to me that because this actually was

1437
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of a controversy on the right, Oh

1438
01:06:59,400 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 1: what do they do?

1439
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 4: I was reading.

1440
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: If you look at the map, it's totally like a

1441
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: kid draw. You can't even tell there's things that don't

1442
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: exist in new things that do. I mean, it's just

1443
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: like completely absurd to imagine that this reflected anything approaching

1444
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 1: reality or was taking some sort of geopolitical stand that

1445
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: was ridiculous. So yeah, I think part of why this

1446
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: didn't end up being any sort of like a controversy

1447
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: thing is because it is so random, because it is

1448
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:28,479
Speaker 1: so just like scattershot, and in a lot of ways,

1449
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: because it's so sloppy, like taking the country of Georgia

1450
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,479
Speaker 1: and giving it the state of Georgia's flat.

1451
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 4: It's probably just some producer it was like.

1452
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: Tasked work entire Wikipedia or whatever and trying to come

1453
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: up with.

1454
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 3: This Georgia plan. I know exactly what happened.

1455
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 2: I feel that probably didn't even realize Georgia was real country,

1456
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 2: because it would.

1457
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 1: Be impossible, it would actually be impossible to go through

1458
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: this exercise and make everyone happen like to you know,

1459
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: really intentionally try to draw out what you think is

1460
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: right and just and.

1461
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 4: Accurate and what like.

1462
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: There is no way you can make everybody happy. So

1463
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: just making it random was the best part.

1464
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 3: It's funny because I think about the real Olympics.

1465
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,919
Speaker 2: Remember they have all those like unflagged countries where people

1466
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 2: do play and people march in the parade.

1467
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Arge is the real country. It's like, it's always

1468
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 3: a massive kind of Taiwan is always a big one.

1469
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 3: Palestine is always a big one, you know, in the past,

1470
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 3: like Swazland and places like that.

1471
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 2: So anyway, yeah, I think it's hilarious and I'm actually

1472
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 2: glad there was no deranged cycle of discourse around this.

1473
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 2: Let mister beast be mister beast, let them just play around.

1474
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 4: Did you watch the actual video?

1475
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 3: I watched the full thing. I watched it.

1476
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 4: It's fun I mean, it's all the movies are great.

1477
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 2: Like my personal favorite was the one on So I'm

1478
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 2: a traveld Junkie. I loved the playing video, the one

1479
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 2: where He's like, here's what a thousand, one thousand dollars

1480
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 2: flight up to like.

1481
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 3: One hundred thousand dollars.

1482
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 4: Oh oh, that is kind of That was.

1483
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 3: One of my favorite videos that he's ever done.

1484
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this, I mean, this goes well with the

1485
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: block we just did on screen time.

1486
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 3: Kids love, they love.

1487
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 1: I mean, so, my son is not a huge Mister

1488
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: Beast fan. He's not like watch the conto. He's not

1489
01:08:57,920 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 1: like obsessed with it. But some of his friends are

1490
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 1: like the biggest Mister Beast stands.

1491
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 4: On the planet.

1492
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 3: Every kid, if I said a word.

1493
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 4: Against mister Beast, they would become inform me.

1494
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 2: Every kid I've ever met under twelve, it's like, I

1495
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 2: love mister Beast. There always like do you have feastables?

1496
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 3: Am I? How do you even know about it?

1497
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1498
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 3: This is crazy? Yeah true.

1499
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: Anyway, good job, mister Beast, thank you for solving all

1500
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:15,839
Speaker 1: the world's problems.

1501
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 2: That's right, we got a great guests standing by sorabamar

1502
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 2: Let's get to it.

1503
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: Excited to be joined this morning by Sorabamari. He is

1504
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: founder and editor of Compact Magazine. He's also a contributing

1505
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: editor to the American Conservative and Most importantly for this morning,

1506
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 1: author of a new book called Tyranny, Inc. It's all

1507
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 1: about corporate power. The subhad here is how private power

1508
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: crushed American liberty and what to do about it.

1509
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 4: Great to have you, Sora, Welcome, good.

1510
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 6: To see you, exc you both, Thanks for having me.

1511
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, So just tell us a little bit

1512
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: of why you decided to write this book at this

1513
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: moment and what the central thesis is.

1514
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:55,719
Speaker 7: Sure this book was actually conceived on election night twenty twenty.

1515
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 7: It wasn't clear what the outcome was, but one thing

1516
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 7: was clear, and that was the present sident. Trump and

1517
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 7: the Trumpy and GOP had not only consolidated the working

1518
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 7: class gains that I had made among white working class people,

1519
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 7: but had begun to make inroads among working class people

1520
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 7: of color. And so what I proposed to do at

1521
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 7: that time was to write a kind of manifesto for

1522
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 7: a new working class Conservatism. But when I actually got

1523
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 7: down to writing the book, I realized that that would

1524
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 7: be putting the cart before the horse, because a lot

1525
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 7: of the issues that stand in the way of working

1526
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 7: class flourishing in this country have to do with what

1527
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 7: happens in the private economy. Whereas a lot of the

1528
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 7: kind of populous energy of the since twenty sixteen had

1529
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 7: gone toward not entirely, but a lot of it toward

1530
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 7: kind of cultural populism. And so we did not have

1531
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 7: a working class agenda for the Republican Party, even though

1532
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 7: it did claim a republic working class base.

1533
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 6: So what this.

1534
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 7: Book does is to is to show those obstacles, and

1535
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 7: many of them, I have to say, have been put

1536
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 7: up by Republicans, by center right lawmakers, Supreme Court justices,

1537
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 7: including ones appointed by President Trump sadly despite his appeal

1538
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:22,759
Speaker 7: to organize labor in twenty fifteen and sixteen.

1539
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 6: So the core thesis of.

1540
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 7: The book is that, contrary to what many American conservatives

1541
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 7: have come to believe since the past, over the past

1542
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 7: two generations, since the Reagan era, government is not the

1543
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 7: only source of coercion in our lives, and in fact,

1544
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 7: we are surrounded by coercion needed out by the private

1545
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 7: sector in our lives as workers and consumers. And most

1546
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 7: of the book is just the kind of repertorial tour

1547
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 7: of what that looks like from the point of view

1548
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 7: of different ordinary Americans and different walks of life. So

1549
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:56,919
Speaker 7: I won't go into all of them, but typically, for example,

1550
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 7: the way in which scheduling and wage precarity sort of

1551
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 7: tightly constrain the lives of people in the lower ends

1552
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 7: of the labor market, especially retail and restaurant workers, so

1553
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 7: that they can't do elder care, they can't do childcare,

1554
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,600
Speaker 7: there's no sense of certainty regularity about their schedules.

1555
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 6: All the way to.

1556
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 7: The abuse of commercial arbitration, you know, these privatized corporate

1557
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 7: courts in the workplace where they were this practice was

1558
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,919
Speaker 7: never meant by Congress to enter the realm of the workplace,

1559
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 7: where there's vast disparities and bargaining power between workers and employers.

1560
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 7: And then finally, the ravages mainly of private equity and

1561
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 7: hedge funds, the way in which they erode the real

1562
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 7: economy where we produce stuff, useful stuff, and basically sap

1563
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 7: companies out of all their energy and capital and into

1564
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 7: the asset ledgers of a relatively few financiers.

1565
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 3: I think it's really courageous, Harp.

1566
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who are affiliated with the

1567
01:12:57,400 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 2: RIDE or whatever who don't want to be honest about

1568
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 2: some of the major barriers to that. Why do you

1569
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:05,160
Speaker 2: think that things got to this place where Trump was

1570
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 2: both a vehicle for a lot of working class energy

1571
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, but also effectively allowed himself to be

1572
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,920
Speaker 2: co opted by a lot of people around him. But

1573
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 2: then also what we've seen since has been a willingness

1574
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 2: to engage in like cultural wars that definitely align with

1575
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 2: some working class people and with voters, but never really

1576
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 2: giving an inch on the economic front. How do we

1577
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 2: get here? I guess that's part of what you get

1578
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 2: into the book.

1579
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 7: Well, I have to introduce one caveat on the question

1580
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 7: of free trade Trump's actually delivered. You know, decoupling from

1581
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 7: China has now become a bipartisan conventional wisdom, which wasn't

1582
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:44,600
Speaker 7: the case when he ran. Of course, you know, the

1583
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 7: typical organs of the right and the left even attacked

1584
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 7: him for that. That said, on every other front, you're right,

1585
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 7: you know, his Department of Labor was basically stuffed with

1586
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 7: union busters.

1587
01:13:56,720 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 6: So why is that?

1588
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:01,240
Speaker 7: One is just inertia of a part Parties don't easily

1589
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,679
Speaker 7: shift their agenda, even as their voting base might shift.

1590
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 7: Second one is the lack of Republican personnel who are

1591
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 7: willing to or even know the language of dealing with

1592
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 7: corporate power. You know, all of that, all of that

1593
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 7: reform energy and expertise on this front is actually on

1594
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 7: the center left. It's with people like Senator Warren and

1595
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 7: Senator Sanders, shared Brown.

1596
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 6: Chris Murphy.

1597
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 7: You know, like the Republican doesn't have the personnel, but

1598
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 7: the biggest influence is not even like the sociopathic few billionaires.

1599
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:36,719
Speaker 7: And this is the hardest one to talk about, honestly,

1600
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 7: is the fact that the power base of the Republican Party,

1601
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,880
Speaker 7: which is not the same as its voting base, but

1602
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 7: the power base of the country of the party, is

1603
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 7: what you would call small and regional capital. It's like

1604
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 7: the higher distributor the chain of car dealerships in a

1605
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 7: particular region. And that figure is the most kind of

1606
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 7: resistant to the to reform. He might be himself in

1607
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 7: some ways a victim of the vicissitudes of the market system.

1608
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 7: He's resentful at larger capital, which is able to muster

1609
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,719
Speaker 7: corporate governmental power and so forth. But his only answer

1610
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 7: is always turning down the few constraints that remain to

1611
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 7: try to control the market system and make it a

1612
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 7: little fair.

1613
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:21,759
Speaker 6: It's like, just leave me alone.

1614
01:15:22,479 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 7: The self made man at the Rubber Chicken Dinner is

1615
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 7: a powerful figure in the Republican Party. Just a quick

1616
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 7: point that what might fix that is if the Republicans

1617
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 7: make enough good faith gestures toward organized labor so that

1618
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 7: the workers who are now voting for the Republican Party

1619
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 7: find an organized voice within the Republican coalition rather than

1620
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 7: being basically people who vote one way but a different

1621
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 7: gettative set of results.

1622
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, for the reasons that you laid out, I'm just

1623
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: very skeptical that that's even possible. And you know, I'll

1624
01:15:57,560 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: tell you I was. I was saying to you before

1625
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 1: we started the segment, like I was expecting to hate

1626
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: at least some portion of this book, but I really didn't.

1627
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 1: I mean, the book is basically like social democracy. I'm

1628
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: a social democrat. This could have been a lot of

1629
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:10,839
Speaker 1: this could have been written by like a Bernie Sanders,

1630
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: and the typical, in my opinion, trick that people on

1631
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,240
Speaker 1: the right do. I'm think of like vi veg Ramaswami,

1632
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of Ron de Santis is they'll use a

1633
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:21,799
Speaker 1: lot of the language of.

1634
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 4: A critique of corporate power.

1635
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 1: But then what it comes down to is like and

1636
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: that's why we need to fire this one DEI consultant

1637
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 1: or that's why we need to fight back against wokeness.

1638
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the whole anti woke discourse in

1639
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: a lot of ways has been very cleverly used to

1640
01:16:39,400 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 1: sort of posture like you have an anti corporate critique,

1641
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: but not actually go after corporations in any sort of

1642
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: way that would like meaningfully curb their power. The classic

1643
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: example that we've talked about here a number of times

1644
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 1: is Marco Rubio pendusap ed that was like, I'm in

1645
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: support of the Amazon workers trying and unionize in bessemer

1646
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,640
Speaker 1: in justice one limited example, not because I have a

1647
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: critique of corporate power, but because I don't like the

1648
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: diversity initiatives of Amazon hr so as one example of this,

1649
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: So how do you get out of that? And also,

1650
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, do you have a critique of that sort

1651
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:20,040
Speaker 1: of use of anti corporate power language but in ways

1652
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 1: that you know, don't actually threaten any of the system

1653
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 1: as it exists now.

1654
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,599
Speaker 7: So one quick point about Senator Ruvio, I think he's

1655
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:32,560
Speaker 7: actually one of the better ones. You know, he's exploring

1656
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 7: what it means to be pro labor on the right,

1657
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 7: and so the rhetoric isn't always the way the labor

1658
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 7: left wants to hear it.

1659
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,679
Speaker 4: But no, sorry, just to push back.

1660
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 1: I don't really care about whether the rhetoric is the

1661
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: way I want to hear it. But like I don't

1662
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: see him supporting the proact. You know, I don't see

1663
01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: him walking the walk in terms of actually backing labor either.

1664
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 7: I would push all three of the sort of most

1665
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:02,520
Speaker 7: committed economic politics economic populace on the right in the Senate, Rubio, Hally, Jdvans,

1666
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 7: all of whom I admired. I would push them and

1667
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 7: have pushed them to support the proact. I would say again, Rubio,

1668
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 7: for example, has done serious work, with the help of

1669
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,680
Speaker 7: figures around orncast about the erosion of the real economy

1670
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:19,719
Speaker 7: by finance. But setting that aside, I do I totally agree.

1671
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 7: I agree with you about the critique at large. You

1672
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 7: know that you said you didn't find much to agree

1673
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 7: with you didn't find much to disagree with my book. Likewise,

1674
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 7: I don't find much to disagree with you in what

1675
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 7: you just said. I've come to really despise this kind

1676
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 7: of fake populism, this weird class analysis in which like

1677
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 7: precarious adjunct professors are the elite, and you know, Elon

1678
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 7: Musk is actually the subaltern proletarian hero, you know, or

1679
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 7: just the sort of hostility frankly for the proverbial purple

1680
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,640
Speaker 7: herd barista who may not share cultural views, but insofar

1681
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 7: as she's wants like a decent wage and more workplace

1682
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 7: security and health security. You know, if you're pro worker,

1683
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 7: you have to hear that out and listen to that

1684
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 7: and not just sort of image the typical worker as

1685
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 7: only like a self employed roofer or at best a

1686
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 7: kind of burly teamster that's part of the working class.

1687
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,040
Speaker 7: But the reality is the working class in the United

1688
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 7: States also includes you know, Filipina ladies, work in hospitality,

1689
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 7: it includes it's like precarious adjuncts and so on. So

1690
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 7: I hear you totally on that. And you know, my

1691
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 7: favorite example is the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank. The

1692
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 7: collapse of Silicon Valley Bank is a symptom. Is this

1693
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:48,519
Speaker 7: ongoing issue in American banking? I would argue going back

1694
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 7: to the Jacksonian era, where most developed countries have like

1695
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 7: a few large banks that are almost regulated utilities, whereas

1696
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 7: the United States since the Jacksonians has had these small

1697
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,880
Speaker 7: and regional banks which can actually their own weird way,

1698
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:01,759
Speaker 7: can wreak havoc.

1699
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 6: So that's a complex and serious issue.

1700
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 7: What was the response of the right to that as

1701
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 7: a kind of populism? Oh, it was because it was

1702
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 7: a woke bank. Well, sorry, but the board of Silicon

1703
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 7: Valley Bank was dominated by white guys.

1704
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:16,799
Speaker 6: What are you talking about?

1705
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 1: There was like one gay guy on there, and they're like, oh,

1706
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:20,639
Speaker 1: we found the wokeness.

1707
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 7: There was a kind of parallel version of this on

1708
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 7: what I call the lifestyle left. Not to make much

1709
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 7: of it, because there's plenty, like I said, plenty of

1710
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 7: good reforms on the left and center left, but there

1711
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 7: is that kind of Corporations have also learned that if

1712
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:39,960
Speaker 7: they sort of do the song and dance of a wokeness. So,

1713
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 7: for example, at RII, the outdoor gear chain, there's been

1714
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:47,080
Speaker 7: an ongo communization drive and infamously, their chief diversity officer

1715
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 7: did a podcast which she began by saying, hello, I'm

1716
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,760
Speaker 7: so and so. My pronouns are she and her and oh,

1717
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 7: by the way, I want to acknowledge that I'm coming

1718
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:00,799
Speaker 7: to you from the traditional lands of people, lonely people.

1719
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 7: Please don't join a labor union, was it right?

1720
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, We cover that extensively here.

1721
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 2: So I am curious, though, in an uncomfortable question, some

1722
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 2: one that I think about all the time. What if

1723
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 2: a lot of the voters don't actually want this? What

1724
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 2: if the voters what if the politicians are responding to

1725
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 2: the correct incentive, which is the voters want culture work.

1726
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,640
Speaker 2: They actually like it, they really enjoy watching their politicians

1727
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 2: stick it to the left, and in fact, specifically in

1728
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 2: a primary system, that's the thing that the people who

1729
01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 2: really vote, they care about that number one, and they

1730
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 2: care about it the most. I think there's a lot

1731
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,799
Speaker 2: of polling that could argue otherwise, but voting results. You know, politicians,

1732
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:39,639
Speaker 2: they're cynical people. They respond to incentives. Do you think

1733
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 2: I have it wrong? Do you think it's nuanced?

1734
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 3: What do you think it is?

1735
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 7: I mean, I think cultural issues have their own inner integrity,

1736
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:51,360
Speaker 7: and they're not everything. Not everything that's a cultural phenomenon

1737
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 7: can be reduced to class relations. You know, I'm certainly

1738
01:21:54,680 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 7: kind of vulgar, vulgar Marxist. That said, the the the

1739
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:05,200
Speaker 7: recent trends in Republican electoral politics, maybe maybe Crystal can

1740
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 7: speak better about this when it comes to the Democrats.

1741
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 7: But on the Republican side, noticed that the candidate who

1742
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 7: won in twenty fifteen and sixteen and sort of barreled

1743
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 7: his way past all these conventional Republicans was the one

1744
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:23,440
Speaker 7: who said I will protect your entitlements. He even contemplated

1745
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 7: a public option in healthcare in that debate with Ted

1746
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:28,799
Speaker 7: Cruz where he said I'm not going to let people

1747
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:33,760
Speaker 7: die on the streets and questioned the party's free trade orthodoxies.

1748
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 7: So to me, I mean, culturally, all those candidates up

1749
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 7: there were more or less just Republicans, even Trump pretending

1750
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:43,240
Speaker 7: to be a cultural conservative in twenty fifteen sixteen, whether

1751
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 7: he was sincere or not. So that all else being equal,

1752
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:49,080
Speaker 7: the one that the base went for was the one

1753
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,639
Speaker 7: who kind of harkened back to the New Deal order

1754
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 7: and who tried some in his own way to revive

1755
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:00,120
Speaker 7: what I call the Eisenhower Nixon tradition in the Republican Party,

1756
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 7: which made its peace with the New Deal with entitlements

1757
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 7: and even expanded the logic of the New Deal in

1758
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:09,760
Speaker 7: different directions. Again, more recently, I have to say, I mean,

1759
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 7: if voters wanted anti vote, anti woke, Rhonda Santis should

1760
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:18,800
Speaker 7: be doing a lot better in the Republican primaries. I mean,

1761
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,799
Speaker 7: he ran on pure I'm going to turn your populist

1762
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 7: grievances into cultural grievances and it and it's disastrously bad

1763
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 7: as a gambit.

1764
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:31,280
Speaker 4: That's I think that's really well put.

1765
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 1: How do you think about the relationship between economics and culture?

1766
01:23:36,720 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times, you know, it's it's

1767
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: kind of hard to draw a hard line of like

1768
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:42,360
Speaker 1: this is where the economic issue ends and this is

1769
01:23:42,360 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: where the cultural issue begins. But do you prioritize one

1770
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 1: over the other? Do you think culture is downstream by

1771
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: and large of you know, class interests and material needs?

1772
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 4: How do you think about those things?

1773
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 7: So, okay, that's a that's a complex question about which

1774
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:01,400
Speaker 7: I've written a lot, and it's it's hard to summarize.

1775
01:24:01,439 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 7: But what I will say, you don't need to be

1776
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 7: a Marxist to recognize that how we structure our economy

1777
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:12,160
Speaker 7: and our class structure has a bearing on how people

1778
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 7: feel they belong in the world and their sense and

1779
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 7: they're all the sort of cultural sensibilities and so forth.

1780
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 7: So you can you can turn back to Aristotle who

1781
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 7: says that law is and politics are architectonic with respect

1782
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 7: to everything else we do.

1783
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 6: They create everything else we do. They structure what we do.

1784
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:36,599
Speaker 7: And when they I mean obviously in the classical tradition,

1785
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:39,520
Speaker 7: and when you say law and politics, that meant economy

1786
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 7: as well. So I think there is a kind of

1787
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 7: dynamic relationship between the two. And what I've found frustrating

1788
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 7: is a brand of social conservative lament that says, oh,

1789
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 7: people aren't getting married, Oh, family formation is collapsing, Oh,

1790
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:59,760
Speaker 7: church attendance is down, but never connects the sort of

1791
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 7: link between these phenomena, which I decry as well. I

1792
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 7: have my conservative sensibilities and I think there's an ideal

1793
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 7: of human flourishing that I draw from the Christian faith

1794
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,839
Speaker 7: I have and so on, But they never then connect

1795
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 7: that to.

1796
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:15,600
Speaker 6: Our material conditions.

1797
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:20,760
Speaker 7: Like, oh, if you're constantly harried because your firm does

1798
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 7: human resources scheduling using an algorithm to minimize the costs

1799
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 7: their labor costs, but for you, life is a complete

1800
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 7: chaos as a result of that, you may not have

1801
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 7: time to spend with your kids. And your kids in fact,

1802
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 7: studies show a University of California studies show that workers

1803
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:41,639
Speaker 7: who are subjected to this kind of precarious scheduling, which

1804
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 7: is about a third of at least a third of

1805
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 7: workers in the service industry. Their children. I mean, it

1806
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 7: doesn't take a rocket science to scientists flend this. Their

1807
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 7: children have feelings of guilt, are more likely to act

1808
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 7: out in school. Why because mom and dad or however

1809
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,679
Speaker 7: the family formation may be, don't get to spend regular

1810
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 7: systematic time. So there is this nexus, There is this

1811
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 7: sort of interplay of culture and material reality. And I

1812
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 7: think the conservative movement goes too far in the direction

1813
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 7: of everything is a matter of ideals. If we just

1814
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 7: tell people to get married and have children, that just

1815
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 7: will listen. If we just say it the right way, well,

1816
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 7: that hasn't worked. And I think I'd like to tip

1817
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 7: the direction of conservative thought a little bit more, or

1818
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:31,680
Speaker 7: maybe a lot more, in the direction of recognizing the

1819
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:33,640
Speaker 7: centrality of economic imperatives.

1820
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 1: So, Sarah, if you feel like a lot of the

1821
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:40,000
Speaker 1: cultural outcomes that you would like to see in terms

1822
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: of family formations and human flourishing, if you feel like

1823
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: a lot of those would be achieved by what is

1824
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 1: basically like Bernie Sanders style social democracy, why are you

1825
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:50,800
Speaker 1: on the right.

1826
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 6: Well, two reasons.

1827
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 7: One is, I think a lot of people on the

1828
01:26:57,240 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 7: left diagnose the material causes of our cultural crises, but

1829
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 7: then they end up ratifying the effects. So they say, oh,

1830
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,639
Speaker 7: it's good that people are hyper individualistic now, and the

1831
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 7: gold in life is ever greater self kind of maximization

1832
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 7: and realization in the realm of.

1833
01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:14,840
Speaker 6: Family and so on.

1834
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 7: So I think for me, I get my picture of

1835
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 7: what the world should look like from my Catholic faith,

1836
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:26,839
Speaker 7: from my kind of reading in the classical and Christian tradition,

1837
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 7: in ways that are I think alien to people on

1838
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:35,719
Speaker 7: the left. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the main reason.

1839
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 7: And I will say there are there are issues of

1840
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 7: fundamental conscience for me that make it very hard, and

1841
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 7: that has mainly with you know, abortion and the liberty

1842
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 7: of the church or religious liberty, where I feel like,

1843
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 7: if if the left were willing to moderate just even

1844
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 7: a teeny bit, you can maybe begin to take steps

1845
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 7: in its direction, because that as it is, I don't

1846
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,040
Speaker 7: see that, and I think a lot of Americans don't

1847
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 7: see it either, which supplies an opening to you know, frankly,

1848
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 7: that kind of Ronda scientis culturalist, right.

1849
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: So then you would have to say then that that

1850
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 1: is your number one priority over the economics. It's more

1851
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 1: important to you to align This is fine, I'm just

1852
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 1: trying to understand what your worldview is. It's more important

1853
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:23,840
Speaker 1: to you to align with a party that agrees with

1854
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: you more on abortion than it is to align with,

1855
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, an ideology that agrees with you more on

1856
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 1: social democracy, labor unions, and corporate power.

1857
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 7: I think the task is for people on both sides

1858
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:42,920
Speaker 7: of the divide to recognize that we will continue to

1859
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 7: have cultural disagreements in this country about fundamental issues, but

1860
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 7: that those issues, insofar as they have common material roots,

1861
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 7: should be the subject of the kind of coalition building

1862
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,919
Speaker 7: that FDR did, right, I mean, you know, large coalition

1863
01:29:00,479 --> 01:29:06,160
Speaker 7: politics between urban Catholics, you know, WASP kind of downstall

1864
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 7: evangelical farmers unions and so on. Likewise, actually the neoliberals

1865
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 7: built a coalition as well. It wasn't just a phenomenon

1866
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,559
Speaker 7: of the left. In fact, famously, Margaret Thatcher when she

1867
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 7: was asked who was your greatest or what was your

1868
01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 7: greatest achievement, she said Tony Blair. So if something is

1869
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 7: going to replace the neoliberal consensus, it has to be

1870
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 7: built in the middle, and what I'm trying to do

1871
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 7: is try to get my own side to see that.

1872
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 7: And I will say, like, there are lots of policy

1873
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:39,040
Speaker 7: issues where I'm out there cheering the left. I'm almost

1874
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:41,880
Speaker 7: doing like the clap emoji on Twitter, you know, like

1875
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:44,759
Speaker 7: the Stop Wall Street Looting Act. You know, I think

1876
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 7: there's been honestly left or right there which is a

1877
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:50,439
Speaker 7: I should say, it's a war and bill. There's been

1878
01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:54,000
Speaker 7: no greater louder champion of that bill on either side

1879
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 7: of the isle than myself. The pro Act, you know,

1880
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 7: and more generally, just like a reversing the way that

1881
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 7: American law has been used to depress union density in

1882
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:08,679
Speaker 7: the private economy. I guess so on all this stuff,

1883
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 7: we used to be able to do coalitional politics where

1884
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:15,839
Speaker 7: we disagree on certain things, but we have a common

1885
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 7: ground on other things, and I think those other things

1886
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 7: are quite fundamental and important, so let's work together.

1887
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's a really you're one

1888
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: of the most interesting people out there who's thinking about

1889
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:28,400
Speaker 2: these things right now. I think the book is very important.

1890
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:30,240
Speaker 2: We encourage everybody going buy it. We're going to a

1891
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 2: link down in the description, and we really think if

1892
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 2: your time.

1893
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 4: STARp, Thank you, yeah, great chatting with you.

1894
01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 6: Thank you both.

1895
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,800
Speaker 3: Go to see them in our pleasure. See you guys later.