WEBVTT - Neil Patrick Harris & David Burtka 0:00:14.836 --> 0:00:29.476 Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas, and 0:00:29.596 --> 0:00:32.556 we're going on a series of double dates to find 0:00:32.556 --> 0:00:40.276 out what makes a marriage. Last we were excited for 0:00:40.396 --> 0:00:44.916 our visit with Neil Patrick Harris and David Burka. I mean, 0:00:44.956 --> 0:00:48.876 I certainly was until I got the flu. Yeah, that 0:00:49.076 --> 0:00:51.516 was really too bad. But we couldn't have brought that 0:00:51.636 --> 0:00:56.356 along on our date, so off you went uptown without me. 0:00:56.836 --> 0:00:59.476 It was such a shame. You would have loved their house. 0:00:59.876 --> 0:01:03.036 It's a big, old, beautiful brownstone. You have to go 0:01:03.116 --> 0:01:05.916 up practically twenty steps to get to the front door, 0:01:06.596 --> 0:01:09.276 and it has quite a history. So how old is 0:01:09.276 --> 0:01:13.676 the house? Nineteen o five? Wow, it had been everything 0:01:13.716 --> 0:01:17.476 from a speakeasy for mill workers to music school for 0:01:17.556 --> 0:01:22.396 girls to a single person occupancy. When you think it 0:01:22.476 --> 0:01:26.276 was a brothel, No, I's just wishful. I began to 0:01:26.356 --> 0:01:29.516 wonder where in this five story house would we have 0:01:29.596 --> 0:01:33.796 our talk? So who's the decorator? David has better taste 0:01:33.836 --> 0:01:38.756 than I do, so if we ever have disagreements about interiors, 0:01:39.196 --> 0:01:42.516 it usually comes from a financial standpoint. In that I 0:01:42.916 --> 0:01:47.396 tend to say, dude, we have dogs and two small children. 0:01:47.996 --> 0:01:51.316 We don't need a forty billion dollar rug, So you're 0:01:51.356 --> 0:01:56.076 the sort of decorator and you're the accountant. Then they 0:01:56.156 --> 0:01:59.436 led me into their red velvet screening room with rows 0:01:59.516 --> 0:02:03.036 of cushy theater seats, just like in old Hollywood. What 0:02:03.196 --> 0:02:07.276 a fitting place to chat with these two actors. What 0:02:07.396 --> 0:02:11.596 kind of marriages did your parents sad? My parents were 0:02:11.676 --> 0:02:15.196 together until my mom passed away eleven years ago, and 0:02:15.676 --> 0:02:19.436 your parents. My parents are still married and they've celebrated 0:02:19.596 --> 0:02:23.476 fifty plus years of marriage, so they've always been only 0:02:23.516 --> 0:02:27.076 together with each other. So because you were gay, did 0:02:27.116 --> 0:02:30.836 you think you wouldn't have that? I thought that I 0:02:30.916 --> 0:02:36.796 was going to be alone or single for most of 0:02:36.796 --> 0:02:40.436 my adult life. But I also had a random path 0:02:40.756 --> 0:02:44.476 from adolescence into adulthood because I ended up being on 0:02:44.516 --> 0:02:47.556 a television show when I was fifteen years old, and 0:02:47.596 --> 0:02:51.836 so all free puberty through puberty when you're figuring out 0:02:52.556 --> 0:02:56.236 what turns you on, I felt a bit under a 0:02:56.276 --> 0:03:00.876 microscope of television, and so I didn't have the freedom 0:03:00.916 --> 0:03:04.356 to randomly hit on somebody or go to a bar. 0:03:04.516 --> 0:03:08.516 So I was by myself a lot and had a 0:03:08.756 --> 0:03:11.276 fantas asked a group of friends in Los Angeles who 0:03:11.396 --> 0:03:15.276 knew everything about me. But I just I just wasn't dating. 0:03:15.476 --> 0:03:18.556 I had never even showered with another person until I 0:03:18.596 --> 0:03:24.916 was in my late twenties, so it was all new 0:03:24.996 --> 0:03:28.436 to me. And what about you, David, I you know, 0:03:28.716 --> 0:03:32.436 I didn't know what I wanted until sort of I 0:03:32.476 --> 0:03:35.076 got into a college and then after college, living in 0:03:35.116 --> 0:03:37.276 New York, I, you know, I saw lots of different 0:03:37.276 --> 0:03:41.596 relationships and men having babies already and having a family. 0:03:41.676 --> 0:03:44.236 So I always knew that I was going to settle 0:03:44.276 --> 0:03:47.276 down and be with someone and stay with someone and 0:03:47.556 --> 0:03:50.316 have a family and kids. Once we started dating, we 0:03:50.396 --> 0:03:53.196 never really stopped, So we didn't date lots of people 0:03:53.236 --> 0:03:55.796 while we were dating each other, and then decide we 0:03:55.876 --> 0:03:59.036 just started dating, moved in together, and we've been together 0:03:59.076 --> 0:04:03.476 ever since. The same sex marriage wasn't legal at that time, 0:04:03.996 --> 0:04:09.396 and it seemed like a potential but not an inevitability, 0:04:09.516 --> 0:04:13.676 and so we were more conscientious of what wording we 0:04:13.836 --> 0:04:16.716 used to call each other. I just didn't like the 0:04:16.756 --> 0:04:21.116 word partner for some reason. I just I still think 0:04:21.156 --> 0:04:24.756 that's a very strange way to it eliminates any sense 0:04:24.796 --> 0:04:29.116 of lover. Gay lover sounds only romantic like you're just humping. 0:04:29.196 --> 0:04:34.076 Sounds a little invasive of your life. Eight Then boyfriends 0:04:34.076 --> 0:04:37.716 sounded very juvenile. Boyfriends like I was forty calling Phil 0:04:37.836 --> 0:04:41.156 my boyfriend saticular. Right, it seems like it's short lived, 0:04:41.276 --> 0:04:43.756 like we just met, whence you've been together for years. 0:04:43.916 --> 0:04:46.236 So I just said better half and then and then 0:04:46.276 --> 0:04:49.916 once the marriage thing happened, it happened very quickly. But 0:04:49.956 --> 0:04:52.836 we didn't want to get married because it was suddenly 0:04:52.836 --> 0:04:54.876 allowed to get married. We want to get married to 0:04:54.916 --> 0:04:57.076 get because we wanted to get But you were already 0:04:57.116 --> 0:05:00.516 in a committed relationship, correct, and that was and did 0:05:00.676 --> 0:05:02.916 you had kids? Yeah? I just didn't want to go 0:05:02.956 --> 0:05:06.516 to the courthouse with a with a hundred other people 0:05:06.796 --> 0:05:10.076 and people holding up signs and other people picketing and 0:05:10.116 --> 0:05:12.636 then photographers that I don't want to get married on 0:05:12.676 --> 0:05:14.636 that context. I want to get merride with my family 0:05:15.036 --> 0:05:17.836 right in Italy when it's legal and it's not a 0:05:17.876 --> 0:05:21.636 big deal. The nice thing about a destination wedding is 0:05:21.676 --> 0:05:24.436 you can easily reduce the number of people you can 0:05:24.516 --> 0:05:26.836 invite it. Yeah, it was a very small wedding. It 0:05:26.876 --> 0:05:29.076 was only forty seven people. Yeah, we got married with 0:05:29.156 --> 0:05:31.956 thirty five and it wasn't. It wasn't a great wonderful. 0:05:32.076 --> 0:05:34.956 The nice thing about an Italian wedding or any Italian 0:05:34.996 --> 0:05:38.516 trip is that everything is so delicious there. And what 0:05:38.956 --> 0:05:42.876 was Tuscan Perusia? Yeah, the mountains beautiful? You know. One 0:05:42.876 --> 0:05:45.756 of the things that I've noticed, because we've been married 0:05:46.036 --> 0:05:48.316 forty years. Do you count from the day that you 0:05:48.396 --> 0:05:51.836 started dating or from your wedding? Now we're counting from 0:05:51.956 --> 0:05:55.756 the day we got married. We met three years before then, 0:05:56.836 --> 0:06:00.116 but we knew immediately. I mean we fell in up, 0:06:00.356 --> 0:06:02.676 we went, we went to dinner, we went to bed. 0:06:02.836 --> 0:06:08.556 That was it the same, That's what it was. Because 0:06:08.636 --> 0:06:12.796 we're getting we count from the day over first day, sure, 0:06:12.876 --> 0:06:15.556 because and then you add ten years like a dog 0:06:17.596 --> 0:06:22.036 in gay years. Fifty years we've been together. So how 0:06:22.076 --> 0:06:26.076 did you meet? David got a very coveted role of 0:06:26.116 --> 0:06:31.796 Tulsa in Gypsy that was starring Bernadette Peters and directed 0:06:31.796 --> 0:06:34.716 by Sam Mendez, and it was it was a role 0:06:34.796 --> 0:06:38.836 that every young male actor from the ages of eighteen, 0:06:39.196 --> 0:06:41.756 third and a half they tried to find. We're trying 0:06:41.756 --> 0:06:44.476 to get so David got this covered roll of Tulsa 0:06:44.556 --> 0:06:47.316 and the dainty June in that show as a girl 0:06:47.356 --> 0:06:51.276 named Kate Rinders. And I knew Kate Rinders from LA 0:06:51.716 --> 0:06:53.836 And so I was walking down the street. I was 0:06:53.956 --> 0:06:57.516 doing another show on Broadway. I was the MC in Cabaret, 0:06:57.956 --> 0:07:00.436 and I was walking down the street and I saw Kate. 0:07:00.516 --> 0:07:02.516 We will pass by each other and I said hello, 0:07:02.516 --> 0:07:06.796 And she was with this very study dancer guy in 0:07:06.876 --> 0:07:11.116 a leather jacket, like amazing hair, and I just thought 0:07:11.156 --> 0:07:14.276 that she had a boyfriend that was really hot. I 0:07:14.396 --> 0:07:17.036 told her that. I said, who's a guy that you're dating. 0:07:17.596 --> 0:07:20.836 She said, David. Oh no, he's totally gay. I said, really, 0:07:22.276 --> 0:07:25.196 and then I started stalking him. Oh that's great, So 0:07:25.236 --> 0:07:27.756 how did you what happen? We had similar schedules because 0:07:27.756 --> 0:07:29.556 we were both doing shows all the way. Yeah, we 0:07:29.556 --> 0:07:32.116 would and he would show up at different places. Kate 0:07:32.156 --> 0:07:34.036 would say, Oh, we're going this place tonight, and then 0:07:34.116 --> 0:07:36.156 Neil would be there at the bar. What is going on? 0:07:36.196 --> 0:07:39.956 This guy is looking at him. I had a boyfriend 0:07:39.956 --> 0:07:42.076 at the time and things weren't going so well, and 0:07:42.076 --> 0:07:44.556 then we finally broke up, and then I gave this 0:07:44.556 --> 0:07:47.876 guy a date. I was like, I was circling like 0:07:47.996 --> 0:07:51.396 some sort of ulture waiting for them. But when I 0:07:51.436 --> 0:07:54.356 when I met him, first met him, he looked very strange. 0:07:54.396 --> 0:07:58.196 He had jet black hair and he had was very 0:07:58.236 --> 0:08:00.996 white and blue blue eyes, so he didn't necessarily look 0:08:01.076 --> 0:08:04.196 like Neil, So I mean, he was still handsome, but 0:08:04.316 --> 0:08:08.036 it wasn't like true I was in the character because 0:08:08.516 --> 0:08:13.716 DMC was Wimer Germany. So my armpits were dyed black, 0:08:14.556 --> 0:08:17.236 my hair was dyed black, my eyebrows were dyed black. Wow, 0:08:17.476 --> 0:08:20.116 so I and my my skin colors pretty pale. So 0:08:20.156 --> 0:08:22.916 I looked like a vampire a bit. But then I 0:08:22.916 --> 0:08:25.116 had you come with Kate to see the show, and 0:08:25.356 --> 0:08:27.676 that was a very sexy version of Cabaret. If you 0:08:27.716 --> 0:08:32.356 remember Alan coming did it originally with Natasha Richardson, And 0:08:32.676 --> 0:08:35.276 it's walking around and sitting in people's laps in the 0:08:35.316 --> 0:08:40.276 audience and making out with the cast members. Yeah, it was. 0:08:40.716 --> 0:08:43.316 It was. I played the whole show to him, and 0:08:43.396 --> 0:08:46.436 look where I got there. You got yourself a mate. 0:08:47.636 --> 0:08:50.316 So then it started. And then it started, yeah, yeah, 0:08:50.356 --> 0:08:53.836 And we lived in New York for a couple of months, 0:08:53.836 --> 0:08:56.396 and then we made the move to Los Angeles and 0:08:56.516 --> 0:08:59.356 it was nine years in LA isn't it? Well? It 0:08:59.396 --> 0:09:01.516 was it amazing though, because I'm now that I'm thinking 0:09:01.556 --> 0:09:03.516 about this. We talked about being in the same industry 0:09:03.556 --> 0:09:06.956 and how that has its complications, But I don't think 0:09:06.956 --> 0:09:10.236 we would have connected in otherwise because we both had 0:09:10.276 --> 0:09:13.516 the same schedule, so we would all be hanging out 0:09:13.556 --> 0:09:17.116 at the same time post show ten o'clock where everyone 0:09:17.116 --> 0:09:19.156 will be out having drinks. So it's easy to connect 0:09:19.276 --> 0:09:22.956 then and all day just to go bike riding and 0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:25.836 do stuff in Central Park and hang out turn a 0:09:25.916 --> 0:09:27.996 day because we have to work till the nighttime, right, 0:09:28.076 --> 0:09:30.156 and then we got to see each other in our shows, 0:09:30.916 --> 0:09:33.476 so you know we got it's always a turnout. Yeah, 0:09:34.276 --> 0:09:40.636 talent as a turnout, we'll have more. After a quick break, 0:09:51.316 --> 0:09:55.116 we're back to Marlowe's interview with Neil Patrick Harris and 0:09:55.316 --> 0:09:59.356 David Burka. With two hot guys in one marriage, I 0:09:59.476 --> 0:10:02.276 want to know if either of them was the jealous type. 0:10:02.876 --> 0:10:08.036 M me. I think me. I can have a bit 0:10:08.036 --> 0:10:11.996 of jealousy streak in my body. I get very protective 0:10:12.036 --> 0:10:14.716 if guys are, you know, trying to make a move 0:10:14.756 --> 0:10:21.676 on him or rarely, please, did we know couples that 0:10:21.716 --> 0:10:25.476 have open relationships? I would just be worried all the time, 0:10:25.556 --> 0:10:29.756 like who is he with? And what am I not doing? 0:10:29.796 --> 0:10:32.716 And who? Why can't you know? Am I not good enough? 0:10:32.876 --> 0:10:37.876 And so I'd go crazy if there was an open relationship, 0:10:38.076 --> 0:10:41.596 I'd you hire a private detective and I'd figure out 0:10:41.636 --> 0:10:46.116 where he's going. Sicilian No, I'm polish, um, but I 0:10:46.196 --> 0:10:48.676 think that I would, you know, tap his phone. It 0:10:48.676 --> 0:10:52.876 would be hard for me. Was that a discussion. When 0:10:52.916 --> 0:10:57.756 we started dating, our sex life was so strong and 0:10:57.836 --> 0:11:01.636 it maintained itself that three years. It was for long 0:11:01.836 --> 0:11:07.156 enough that that that the idea of opening up the relationship. 0:11:07.276 --> 0:11:09.636 We spent all of our time together all the time, 0:11:09.716 --> 0:11:14.556 so it wasn't a relationship of convenience. When gay guys 0:11:14.956 --> 0:11:18.476 weren't able to be out publicly and stand so tall 0:11:18.516 --> 0:11:20.636 and be so proud of who they were, they had 0:11:20.676 --> 0:11:24.836 to pretend that they were someone else, and therefore promiscuity 0:11:24.996 --> 0:11:29.196 was understood because they weren't able to tell anyone and 0:11:29.316 --> 0:11:32.156 they were they were having sex on the sly. But 0:11:32.356 --> 0:11:35.676 now it's there's a normalization to it, and I think 0:11:35.756 --> 0:11:38.516 now in the same way guys would cheat on each 0:11:38.516 --> 0:11:41.796 other if they're two guys. There's still an old adage 0:11:41.836 --> 0:11:44.436 that a guy that has a wife has a piece 0:11:44.436 --> 0:11:46.836 on the side, or a mistress or I mean, I 0:11:46.836 --> 0:11:49.556 think historically that's I don't think that that's unique to 0:11:49.596 --> 0:11:52.756 two gentlemen. I's a lot of the loop though, too. 0:11:52.916 --> 0:11:56.076 I mean, I don't know, there's the grinder and gruff 0:11:56.116 --> 0:11:59.636 and bumble and all these true we don't I don't. 0:11:59.716 --> 0:12:01.996 I mean, so many people are on these apps in 0:12:02.036 --> 0:12:04.316 there that's very sing left or right. I don't know 0:12:04.356 --> 0:12:07.556 what it is that's true. We started dating before any 0:12:07.596 --> 0:12:11.636 of that miss that whole generation. It's a whole different thing. Like, 0:12:11.916 --> 0:12:15.076 but when you're with somebody who's well known, there's a 0:12:15.396 --> 0:12:18.516 that's an aphrodisiac of its own. So people come on 0:12:18.676 --> 0:12:22.196 to you because you're you know, you're somebody famous and 0:12:22.196 --> 0:12:25.076 that's exciting, right, yeah, right. And there's also there's also 0:12:25.156 --> 0:12:28.036 a bit of me being an actor and also having 0:12:28.116 --> 0:12:30.996 the jealousy of hey, well what about me? Because he 0:12:31.036 --> 0:12:34.236 gets a lot of attention, a lot of attention like 0:12:34.796 --> 0:12:37.476 oh I'm here too, you know that, not give me 0:12:37.476 --> 0:12:40.956 the eye contact or like brushing aside or oh you're 0:12:41.036 --> 0:12:43.676 nice too. This is what true To and Sting talked about. 0:12:44.636 --> 0:12:46.556 If they all talk about that. So how do you 0:12:46.596 --> 0:12:48.636 deal with that? What do you do? Do you demand 0:12:48.716 --> 0:12:51.916 something more from him? How does that work? Because that's 0:12:51.916 --> 0:12:54.956 true in every field. If you're the CEO of a company, 0:12:55.076 --> 0:12:58.356 you're gonna get all the attention and the spouses. Sometimes 0:12:58.396 --> 0:13:02.196 I feel like I say, behind, every great man is 0:13:02.196 --> 0:13:05.436 a great partner, it's a great mate. And then you know, 0:13:05.476 --> 0:13:08.836 I should feel happy and honored that he's sharing his 0:13:08.916 --> 0:13:11.796 time with me. And then other times I'm super upset 0:13:11.836 --> 0:13:15.996 and annoyed and I sort of just stop my feet 0:13:16.036 --> 0:13:19.196 and say, hey, you know, I need some attention here. 0:13:19.396 --> 0:13:21.036 And then what do you do when he does that? 0:13:22.036 --> 0:13:25.756 I give him attention. That's easy. It was also even 0:13:25.876 --> 0:13:29.916 more challenging both being actors, and so I think it 0:13:30.036 --> 0:13:34.316 sometimes it is more the emotions more on the sleeve, 0:13:34.436 --> 0:13:38.716 because I'm sharing with him good news of some job 0:13:38.716 --> 0:13:42.556 opportunity in the same field that he wishes the opportunity 0:13:42.676 --> 0:13:47.116 was his own. And that's understandable. And weren't two guys, yes, 0:13:47.196 --> 0:13:50.116 and we're the same sex, which which amplifies it as well. 0:13:50.516 --> 0:13:52.316 You know, I was working as an actor in New 0:13:52.356 --> 0:13:55.676 York for a really long time and we decided to 0:13:55.716 --> 0:13:58.756 move to Los Angeles. When Neil got a show in 0:13:58.836 --> 0:14:02.236 LA called How I Met Your Mother, and I wasn't 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:05.556 having the best of time in LA but we stuck 0:14:05.556 --> 0:14:08.156 it out because he was doing a job there. So 0:14:09.396 --> 0:14:13.156 you know, you make choices to be with the person 0:14:13.196 --> 0:14:15.036 that you love. That was sort of the main thing 0:14:15.076 --> 0:14:23.076 I think, taking a backseat to my career a bit. Yet, 0:14:23.196 --> 0:14:30.276 such a weird industry as actors, because you're only kind 0:14:30.276 --> 0:14:33.116 of as good as your next random job that you get. 0:14:33.156 --> 0:14:36.556 There's no job security in acting. You can be on 0:14:36.596 --> 0:14:39.956 a television show for seven years and then when the 0:14:40.236 --> 0:14:42.876 show's canceled, you're just auditioning again. It's not like you 0:14:43.276 --> 0:14:47.996 have tenure, and so it's a little bit complicated. But 0:14:48.796 --> 0:14:54.836 David has additional skill sets beyond acting, and so one 0:14:54.876 --> 0:14:57.916 of the things that came from a tenure in Los 0:14:57.956 --> 0:15:01.756 Angeles is that you find other things that you can 0:15:01.796 --> 0:15:04.556 do that don't require someone to tell you that you 0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:09.996 got the job. And David went to Lacom dying and 0:15:10.116 --> 0:15:12.316 it was fast. It was a fast twenty days in 0:15:12.356 --> 0:15:15.396 hospital leukemia, and I just thought, I can't be in 0:15:15.636 --> 0:15:18.436 Los Angeles and be depressed and go out for auditions 0:15:18.476 --> 0:15:20.836 that I didn't want to do anyway, And so I 0:15:21.476 --> 0:15:24.356 went to Lacourt on Blue and became a chef and 0:15:24.876 --> 0:15:28.036 just started working right away. And then when did the 0:15:28.116 --> 0:15:31.956 kids come? He got together in what year? We've been 0:15:31.996 --> 0:15:35.076 fift together? Fifteen? They're eight now, right, so that would 0:15:35.116 --> 0:15:40.636 be six seven. It was recently after my mom died 0:15:41.356 --> 0:15:43.596 eleven years ago. We looked at each other and said, 0:15:43.636 --> 0:15:46.276 life's too short. We gotta have kids now, because my 0:15:46.316 --> 0:15:49.556 mom really wanted just kids and Wally wanted grandkids, and 0:15:49.636 --> 0:15:52.476 so we thought, you know, we can't wait anymore. Let's 0:15:52.516 --> 0:15:56.396 just start the process of having a surrogate and eck donors. 0:15:56.756 --> 0:16:00.556 Having kids is a real game changer. And when you're 0:16:00.596 --> 0:16:04.076 two guys, you don't accidentally get pregnant as much as 0:16:04.076 --> 0:16:07.076 we tried, so we you know, that's not really an 0:16:07.076 --> 0:16:10.796 option unless you make it an actual reality. I'm on 0:16:10.836 --> 0:16:13.596 a TV show, so we're making nice money, and so 0:16:13.676 --> 0:16:15.836 let's do it. One of the things I believe the 0:16:15.916 --> 0:16:20.236 strongest is that when same sex couples want to have kids, 0:16:20.236 --> 0:16:23.116 it's because they've really thought it through, because you can't 0:16:23.156 --> 0:16:26.356 accidentally do it. I said that in jest, but there's 0:16:26.356 --> 0:16:28.076 a lot of truth to that, and so therefore, when 0:16:28.116 --> 0:16:30.476 we have kids, we're ready for it. We didn't go no, 0:16:30.556 --> 0:16:32.556 what's happening? Are we? Are? We gonna do this? It's 0:16:32.596 --> 0:16:35.076 funny when people think that gay people shouldn't have kids. 0:16:35.116 --> 0:16:36.956 I mean, they have to go through so many hoops 0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:40.156 and someone who's really thought about it having kids, and 0:16:40.196 --> 0:16:43.596 someone who really takes the time to do it. So 0:16:44.596 --> 0:16:48.476 what did that do to the love nest? Oh my gosh, 0:16:48.516 --> 0:16:51.876 it was rough. It was rough, and I have to 0:16:51.916 --> 0:16:55.036 say for the first five years, I wasn't sure it's 0:16:55.036 --> 0:17:01.476 gonna work out. I thought that were really rocky roads, 0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:03.836 Like I didn't know if I could be a dad 0:17:03.876 --> 0:17:06.916 and be a husband at the same time. It pulled 0:17:07.236 --> 0:17:10.556 us apart, and yet it brought It brings you together, Yes, 0:17:10.556 --> 0:17:13.836 because you're having to do things once you have kids. 0:17:14.196 --> 0:17:17.516 It's much harder to just say that's it, I'm out. 0:17:18.156 --> 0:17:22.516 And yet you also have no time to say, let's 0:17:22.556 --> 0:17:27.436 stay up all night and drink and connect for till 0:17:27.476 --> 0:17:29.196 four o'clock in mark. All you want to do is 0:17:29.316 --> 0:17:31.756 get a little bit of rest and how do you 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:35.676 say romantic and find that time when you have little children. 0:17:36.196 --> 0:17:40.396 I'd like to know. I'd like to read your book 0:17:40.436 --> 0:17:44.876 and find out we make we make concerted efforts to connect. 0:17:44.956 --> 0:17:48.276 We'll have date nights. Date nights are staycase, or we 0:17:48.356 --> 0:17:52.396 try to go on vacation together, parlay a couple of days, 0:17:52.476 --> 0:17:56.196 or one or two days before after if we're traveling 0:17:56.196 --> 0:18:01.156 for business. An afternoon sex is underrated when the kids 0:18:01.156 --> 0:18:05.236 are not on from school yet. Wait ten minutes. You're 0:18:05.276 --> 0:18:07.636 waiting until everyone goes to sleep to have sex. You're 0:18:07.636 --> 0:18:11.756 gonna be a sleep or sex. You're all so excited 0:18:11.836 --> 0:18:15.236 during the day. Tonight it's going to happen tonight. Your 0:18:15.516 --> 0:18:25.396 world is going to be rockeding. This is right. Yeah. 0:18:25.516 --> 0:18:28.116 I think for those that are looking to get married, 0:18:28.876 --> 0:18:31.036 if if you're if you're coming at it with the 0:18:31.196 --> 0:18:35.316 rigidity of what we have right now. We want to 0:18:35.396 --> 0:18:39.436 maintain this feeling that we have right now. It doesn't 0:18:39.476 --> 0:18:41.236 stay that way because when you have sex with the 0:18:41.236 --> 0:18:44.156 same person over and over, it gets redundant, and then 0:18:44.196 --> 0:18:47.596 you can try different things sort of, but then it 0:18:47.716 --> 0:18:50.156 changes and then you don't like each other and suddenly 0:18:50.676 --> 0:18:52.516 you're not attracted to them, and then you have to 0:18:52.516 --> 0:18:54.876 figure out how to be reattracted them, but in a 0:18:54.916 --> 0:18:58.036 different way because you're aging. And then you have to figure. 0:18:58.076 --> 0:19:00.796 Then you're suddenly figure you're in love with like their 0:19:00.956 --> 0:19:04.316 soul more than their body. But then you get in 0:19:04.316 --> 0:19:06.236 love with their body again. It's just it's more, it's 0:19:06.316 --> 0:19:10.556 it morphs, and I think, I think acknowledge that is 0:19:11.876 --> 0:19:15.476 tenuous and kind of dangerous because what does that mean. 0:19:15.876 --> 0:19:17.836 But in a weird way, we keep falling in love 0:19:17.876 --> 0:19:20.556 with each other in different ways over and over, and 0:19:20.636 --> 0:19:22.996 I think that keeps our sex life alive because it's 0:19:23.036 --> 0:19:26.196 not just we're not trying to continue to do what 0:19:26.236 --> 0:19:29.716 we did and then it's not going. Well, why what's happening? Oh, 0:19:30.116 --> 0:19:32.756 there's no connection. We're trying, We're trying to do it, 0:19:32.756 --> 0:19:35.156 but it's not working. So I'm out, Like I feel 0:19:35.156 --> 0:19:39.036 like some people do that. What I've noticed in my friends, 0:19:39.156 --> 0:19:41.876 on our friends, some people don't know how to come 0:19:41.916 --> 0:19:45.996 back from a bad situation, whether it's infidelity or a 0:19:46.036 --> 0:19:48.916 fight or whatever. Either they don't know how to talk 0:19:49.476 --> 0:19:53.396 to each other, or there's their anger is so a 0:19:53.396 --> 0:19:57.036 manswa they would hold. So how do you fight? I 0:19:57.076 --> 0:19:59.556 think we just blurt out what we have to say 0:19:59.556 --> 0:20:02.196 and we say it. There's a good thing, and there's 0:20:02.196 --> 0:20:04.956 a bad part about that too, But we don't hold 0:20:04.996 --> 0:20:08.476 anything in. We're actors too, so we can read your 0:20:08.476 --> 0:20:11.236 face like there's something wrong with them. I know immediately 0:20:11.556 --> 0:20:15.516 right what's going on. If you don't communicate, you're going 0:20:15.556 --> 0:20:19.036 to build up assumptions and you're going to have resentments, 0:20:19.076 --> 0:20:23.356 and I think that's more corrosive than anything. So the 0:20:23.396 --> 0:20:26.436 lines of communications deserve to be open. Will they be 0:20:26.556 --> 0:20:30.756 fiery and messy, of course, But we've seen couples that 0:20:30.876 --> 0:20:35.196 pretended everything's fine when it's not, and then it feels 0:20:35.236 --> 0:20:38.956 like it becomes this chasm exists, and then there's so 0:20:39.076 --> 0:20:42.076 much unsaid that when it gets so bad, there's so 0:20:42.156 --> 0:20:45.316 much to say that you don't even know where to begin. 0:20:45.516 --> 0:20:49.636 So we see a couple's counselor and have done so 0:20:49.716 --> 0:20:56.396 weekly for most of our entire time together, like our 0:20:56.436 --> 0:20:59.196 fifteen years. Why did you do that? That's great to know. 0:20:59.476 --> 0:21:02.756 Friends of ours said, you should. You should see a 0:21:02.756 --> 0:21:07.756 couple's counselor together before anything's wrong, so that you develop 0:21:07.836 --> 0:21:12.236 skills to communicate and develop ways to be honest around 0:21:12.276 --> 0:21:15.276 each other before it's bad, so that the idea of 0:21:15.316 --> 0:21:18.356 going to see a therapist together isn't because it's a 0:21:18.436 --> 0:21:20.836 last resort we go and see everything, we talk about 0:21:20.836 --> 0:21:23.356 all kinds of stuff. That's been really helpful because we 0:21:23.636 --> 0:21:25.796 know that for that hour or two hours that we're 0:21:25.836 --> 0:21:29.156 meeting him, we're there to work. It's work. So good 0:21:29.196 --> 0:21:32.756 to take a moment you're in conflict, just go to 0:21:32.796 --> 0:21:35.356 your corners for a minute. You're not in the headspace 0:21:35.396 --> 0:21:38.076 to say, you know what, I'm all reacting. You're right. 0:21:38.836 --> 0:21:42.796 Is there something that you've noticed about yourself or about 0:21:42.876 --> 0:21:47.756 him that has changed? Oh? Yeah, for the last three years, 0:21:47.796 --> 0:21:50.516 I've been sober, so I don't drink any alcohol. So 0:21:50.596 --> 0:21:53.996 that's helped a lot because that sort of not only 0:21:54.036 --> 0:21:57.116 made me more depressed, but it also made me more 0:21:57.156 --> 0:22:01.316 heightened to want to start a fight, or be more right, 0:22:01.516 --> 0:22:06.036 or be more headstrong. So that's been a big change. 0:22:06.516 --> 0:22:10.116 Did you do that because Neil asked you to? No. No, 0:22:10.876 --> 0:22:14.116 there's some substance abuse in my family, and I think 0:22:14.156 --> 0:22:16.356 that I owed it to myself and I owed it 0:22:16.356 --> 0:22:19.876 to my kids. It's one of the things I'm just 0:22:19.996 --> 0:22:23.716 deeply proud about David is his determination to do that. 0:22:23.756 --> 0:22:27.396 It's a very hard, complicated decision, but it never got 0:22:27.436 --> 0:22:30.236 to the point where I was I was in jail 0:22:30.476 --> 0:22:35.996 or harmed an armed myself. My bottom was not bad, 0:22:36.116 --> 0:22:38.956 but it was bad enough that I needed to change. 0:22:39.316 --> 0:22:42.836 I could persevere anything and I would still be with him. 0:22:42.996 --> 0:22:46.316 He's an amazing parent. And I think what makes what 0:22:46.516 --> 0:22:50.796 makes me love David is the depth of flavor, is 0:22:51.156 --> 0:22:54.596 of the the amount of roots that have been planted 0:22:55.116 --> 0:22:57.956 where you can't control where they go. And that's why 0:22:57.956 --> 0:23:02.316 it's fun, because it's always changing. You know. Well, we 0:23:03.436 --> 0:23:07.236 realize that we did do make certain decisions about things 0:23:07.236 --> 0:23:10.436 to change. I learned that I wasn't a very good 0:23:10.516 --> 0:23:14.036 listener and that when Phil had a problem, and it 0:23:14.076 --> 0:23:16.076 took about ten years, and one day he was telling 0:23:16.076 --> 0:23:19.796 me something. It was very troublesome for him, and he 0:23:19.836 --> 0:23:22.356 stopped in the middle, niece and please don't say anything. 0:23:23.316 --> 0:23:27.996 Don't tell me anything. And the thing that bothered him 0:23:28.476 --> 0:23:30.956 is that I'm a fixer. So if somebody gives me 0:23:30.996 --> 0:23:35.756 a problem, I'm going for the phone. So I had 0:23:35.796 --> 0:23:38.156 to learn I know I can do this, but this 0:23:38.196 --> 0:23:41.396 isn't the way to do this with another person. Good point, 0:23:41.556 --> 0:23:43.756 I'm not, you know, And he one day he said 0:23:43.636 --> 0:23:47.556 to me, stop producing me. I can do it. And 0:23:47.676 --> 0:23:50.436 it was big. I think in a relationship. We could 0:23:50.436 --> 0:23:52.996 all afford to just go with the flow a little 0:23:53.036 --> 0:23:56.316 bit if you missed the flight, and if the other 0:23:56.356 --> 0:23:58.236 person is to blame, there's no need to blame them. 0:23:58.476 --> 0:24:00.516 Here you are, you missed the flight. Now you can 0:24:00.556 --> 0:24:02.876 stay at the airport for a couple more hours. We 0:24:02.956 --> 0:24:06.036 spent a lot of time in our relationship coming up 0:24:06.076 --> 0:24:10.996 with individual expectations of how the party's gonna go, how 0:24:11.076 --> 0:24:14.916