1 00:00:14,836 --> 00:00:29,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas, and 2 00:00:29,596 --> 00:00:32,556 Speaker 1: we're going on a series of double dates to find 3 00:00:32,556 --> 00:00:40,276 Speaker 1: out what makes a marriage. Last we were excited for 4 00:00:40,396 --> 00:00:44,916 Speaker 1: our visit with Neil Patrick Harris and David Burka. I mean, 5 00:00:44,956 --> 00:00:48,876 Speaker 1: I certainly was until I got the flu. Yeah, that 6 00:00:49,076 --> 00:00:51,516 Speaker 1: was really too bad. But we couldn't have brought that 7 00:00:51,636 --> 00:00:56,356 Speaker 1: along on our date, so off you went uptown without me. 8 00:00:56,836 --> 00:00:59,476 Speaker 1: It was such a shame. You would have loved their house. 9 00:00:59,876 --> 00:01:03,036 Speaker 1: It's a big, old, beautiful brownstone. You have to go 10 00:01:03,116 --> 00:01:05,916 Speaker 1: up practically twenty steps to get to the front door, 11 00:01:06,596 --> 00:01:09,276 Speaker 1: and it has quite a history. So how old is 12 00:01:09,276 --> 00:01:13,676 Speaker 1: the house? Nineteen o five? Wow, it had been everything 13 00:01:13,716 --> 00:01:17,476 Speaker 1: from a speakeasy for mill workers to music school for 14 00:01:17,556 --> 00:01:22,396 Speaker 1: girls to a single person occupancy. When you think it 15 00:01:22,476 --> 00:01:26,276 Speaker 1: was a brothel, No, I's just wishful. I began to 16 00:01:26,356 --> 00:01:29,516 Speaker 1: wonder where in this five story house would we have 17 00:01:29,596 --> 00:01:33,796 Speaker 1: our talk? So who's the decorator? David has better taste 18 00:01:33,836 --> 00:01:38,756 Speaker 1: than I do, so if we ever have disagreements about interiors, 19 00:01:39,196 --> 00:01:42,516 Speaker 1: it usually comes from a financial standpoint. In that I 20 00:01:42,916 --> 00:01:47,396 Speaker 1: tend to say, dude, we have dogs and two small children. 21 00:01:47,996 --> 00:01:51,316 Speaker 1: We don't need a forty billion dollar rug, So you're 22 00:01:51,356 --> 00:01:56,076 Speaker 1: the sort of decorator and you're the accountant. Then they 23 00:01:56,156 --> 00:01:59,436 Speaker 1: led me into their red velvet screening room with rows 24 00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:03,036 Speaker 1: of cushy theater seats, just like in old Hollywood. What 25 00:02:03,196 --> 00:02:07,276 Speaker 1: a fitting place to chat with these two actors. What 26 00:02:07,396 --> 00:02:11,596 Speaker 1: kind of marriages did your parents sad? My parents were 27 00:02:11,676 --> 00:02:15,196 Speaker 1: together until my mom passed away eleven years ago, and 28 00:02:15,676 --> 00:02:19,436 Speaker 1: your parents. My parents are still married and they've celebrated 29 00:02:19,596 --> 00:02:23,476 Speaker 1: fifty plus years of marriage, so they've always been only 30 00:02:23,516 --> 00:02:27,076 Speaker 1: together with each other. So because you were gay, did 31 00:02:27,116 --> 00:02:30,836 Speaker 1: you think you wouldn't have that? I thought that I 32 00:02:30,916 --> 00:02:36,796 Speaker 1: was going to be alone or single for most of 33 00:02:36,796 --> 00:02:40,436 Speaker 1: my adult life. But I also had a random path 34 00:02:40,756 --> 00:02:44,476 Speaker 1: from adolescence into adulthood because I ended up being on 35 00:02:44,516 --> 00:02:47,556 Speaker 1: a television show when I was fifteen years old, and 36 00:02:47,596 --> 00:02:51,836 Speaker 1: so all free puberty through puberty when you're figuring out 37 00:02:52,556 --> 00:02:56,236 Speaker 1: what turns you on, I felt a bit under a 38 00:02:56,276 --> 00:03:00,876 Speaker 1: microscope of television, and so I didn't have the freedom 39 00:03:00,916 --> 00:03:04,356 Speaker 1: to randomly hit on somebody or go to a bar. 40 00:03:04,516 --> 00:03:08,516 Speaker 1: So I was by myself a lot and had a 41 00:03:08,756 --> 00:03:11,276 Speaker 1: fantas asked a group of friends in Los Angeles who 42 00:03:11,396 --> 00:03:15,276 Speaker 1: knew everything about me. But I just I just wasn't dating. 43 00:03:15,476 --> 00:03:18,556 Speaker 1: I had never even showered with another person until I 44 00:03:18,596 --> 00:03:24,916 Speaker 1: was in my late twenties, so it was all new 45 00:03:24,996 --> 00:03:28,436 Speaker 1: to me. And what about you, David, I you know, 46 00:03:28,716 --> 00:03:32,436 Speaker 1: I didn't know what I wanted until sort of I 47 00:03:32,476 --> 00:03:35,076 Speaker 1: got into a college and then after college, living in 48 00:03:35,116 --> 00:03:37,276 Speaker 1: New York, I, you know, I saw lots of different 49 00:03:37,276 --> 00:03:41,596 Speaker 1: relationships and men having babies already and having a family. 50 00:03:41,676 --> 00:03:44,236 Speaker 1: So I always knew that I was going to settle 51 00:03:44,276 --> 00:03:47,276 Speaker 1: down and be with someone and stay with someone and 52 00:03:47,556 --> 00:03:50,316 Speaker 1: have a family and kids. Once we started dating, we 53 00:03:50,396 --> 00:03:53,196 Speaker 1: never really stopped, So we didn't date lots of people 54 00:03:53,236 --> 00:03:55,796 Speaker 1: while we were dating each other, and then decide we 55 00:03:55,876 --> 00:03:59,036 Speaker 1: just started dating, moved in together, and we've been together 56 00:03:59,076 --> 00:04:03,476 Speaker 1: ever since. The same sex marriage wasn't legal at that time, 57 00:04:03,996 --> 00:04:09,396 Speaker 1: and it seemed like a potential but not an inevitability, 58 00:04:09,516 --> 00:04:13,676 Speaker 1: and so we were more conscientious of what wording we 59 00:04:13,836 --> 00:04:16,716 Speaker 1: used to call each other. I just didn't like the 60 00:04:16,756 --> 00:04:21,116 Speaker 1: word partner for some reason. I just I still think 61 00:04:21,156 --> 00:04:24,756 Speaker 1: that's a very strange way to it eliminates any sense 62 00:04:24,796 --> 00:04:29,116 Speaker 1: of lover. Gay lover sounds only romantic like you're just humping. 63 00:04:29,196 --> 00:04:34,076 Speaker 1: Sounds a little invasive of your life. Eight Then boyfriends 64 00:04:34,076 --> 00:04:37,716 Speaker 1: sounded very juvenile. Boyfriends like I was forty calling Phil 65 00:04:37,836 --> 00:04:41,156 Speaker 1: my boyfriend saticular. Right, it seems like it's short lived, 66 00:04:41,276 --> 00:04:43,756 Speaker 1: like we just met, whence you've been together for years. 67 00:04:43,916 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 1: So I just said better half and then and then 68 00:04:46,276 --> 00:04:49,916 Speaker 1: once the marriage thing happened, it happened very quickly. But 69 00:04:49,956 --> 00:04:52,836 Speaker 1: we didn't want to get married because it was suddenly 70 00:04:52,836 --> 00:04:54,876 Speaker 1: allowed to get married. We want to get married to 71 00:04:54,916 --> 00:04:57,076 Speaker 1: get because we wanted to get But you were already 72 00:04:57,116 --> 00:05:00,516 Speaker 1: in a committed relationship, correct, and that was and did 73 00:05:00,676 --> 00:05:02,916 Speaker 1: you had kids? Yeah? I just didn't want to go 74 00:05:02,956 --> 00:05:06,516 Speaker 1: to the courthouse with a with a hundred other people 75 00:05:06,796 --> 00:05:10,076 Speaker 1: and people holding up signs and other people picketing and 76 00:05:10,116 --> 00:05:12,636 Speaker 1: then photographers that I don't want to get married on 77 00:05:12,676 --> 00:05:14,636 Speaker 1: that context. I want to get merride with my family 78 00:05:15,036 --> 00:05:17,836 Speaker 1: right in Italy when it's legal and it's not a 79 00:05:17,876 --> 00:05:21,636 Speaker 1: big deal. The nice thing about a destination wedding is 80 00:05:21,676 --> 00:05:24,436 Speaker 1: you can easily reduce the number of people you can 81 00:05:24,516 --> 00:05:26,836 Speaker 1: invite it. Yeah, it was a very small wedding. It 82 00:05:26,876 --> 00:05:29,076 Speaker 1: was only forty seven people. Yeah, we got married with 83 00:05:29,156 --> 00:05:31,956 Speaker 1: thirty five and it wasn't. It wasn't a great wonderful. 84 00:05:32,076 --> 00:05:34,956 Speaker 1: The nice thing about an Italian wedding or any Italian 85 00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:38,516 Speaker 1: trip is that everything is so delicious there. And what 86 00:05:38,956 --> 00:05:42,876 Speaker 1: was Tuscan Perusia? Yeah, the mountains beautiful? You know. One 87 00:05:42,876 --> 00:05:45,756 Speaker 1: of the things that I've noticed, because we've been married 88 00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:48,316 Speaker 1: forty years. Do you count from the day that you 89 00:05:48,396 --> 00:05:51,836 Speaker 1: started dating or from your wedding? Now we're counting from 90 00:05:51,956 --> 00:05:55,756 Speaker 1: the day we got married. We met three years before then, 91 00:05:56,836 --> 00:06:00,116 Speaker 1: but we knew immediately. I mean we fell in up, 92 00:06:00,356 --> 00:06:02,676 Speaker 1: we went, we went to dinner, we went to bed. 93 00:06:02,836 --> 00:06:08,556 Speaker 1: That was it the same, That's what it was. Because 94 00:06:08,636 --> 00:06:12,796 Speaker 1: we're getting we count from the day over first day, sure, 95 00:06:12,876 --> 00:06:15,556 Speaker 1: because and then you add ten years like a dog 96 00:06:17,596 --> 00:06:22,036 Speaker 1: in gay years. Fifty years we've been together. So how 97 00:06:22,076 --> 00:06:26,076 Speaker 1: did you meet? David got a very coveted role of 98 00:06:26,116 --> 00:06:31,796 Speaker 1: Tulsa in Gypsy that was starring Bernadette Peters and directed 99 00:06:31,796 --> 00:06:34,716 Speaker 1: by Sam Mendez, and it was it was a role 100 00:06:34,796 --> 00:06:38,836 Speaker 1: that every young male actor from the ages of eighteen, 101 00:06:39,196 --> 00:06:41,756 Speaker 1: third and a half they tried to find. We're trying 102 00:06:41,756 --> 00:06:44,476 Speaker 1: to get so David got this covered roll of Tulsa 103 00:06:44,556 --> 00:06:47,316 Speaker 1: and the dainty June in that show as a girl 104 00:06:47,356 --> 00:06:51,276 Speaker 1: named Kate Rinders. And I knew Kate Rinders from LA 105 00:06:51,716 --> 00:06:53,836 Speaker 1: And so I was walking down the street. I was 106 00:06:53,956 --> 00:06:57,516 Speaker 1: doing another show on Broadway. I was the MC in Cabaret, 107 00:06:57,956 --> 00:07:00,436 Speaker 1: and I was walking down the street and I saw Kate. 108 00:07:00,516 --> 00:07:02,516 Speaker 1: We will pass by each other and I said hello, 109 00:07:02,516 --> 00:07:06,796 Speaker 1: And she was with this very study dancer guy in 110 00:07:06,876 --> 00:07:11,116 Speaker 1: a leather jacket, like amazing hair, and I just thought 111 00:07:11,156 --> 00:07:14,276 Speaker 1: that she had a boyfriend that was really hot. I 112 00:07:14,396 --> 00:07:17,036 Speaker 1: told her that. I said, who's a guy that you're dating. 113 00:07:17,596 --> 00:07:20,836 Speaker 1: She said, David. Oh no, he's totally gay. I said, really, 114 00:07:22,276 --> 00:07:25,196 Speaker 1: and then I started stalking him. Oh that's great, So 115 00:07:25,236 --> 00:07:27,756 Speaker 1: how did you what happen? We had similar schedules because 116 00:07:27,756 --> 00:07:29,556 Speaker 1: we were both doing shows all the way. Yeah, we 117 00:07:29,556 --> 00:07:32,116 Speaker 1: would and he would show up at different places. Kate 118 00:07:32,156 --> 00:07:34,036 Speaker 1: would say, Oh, we're going this place tonight, and then 119 00:07:34,116 --> 00:07:36,156 Speaker 1: Neil would be there at the bar. What is going on? 120 00:07:36,196 --> 00:07:39,956 Speaker 1: This guy is looking at him. I had a boyfriend 121 00:07:39,956 --> 00:07:42,076 Speaker 1: at the time and things weren't going so well, and 122 00:07:42,076 --> 00:07:44,556 Speaker 1: then we finally broke up, and then I gave this 123 00:07:44,556 --> 00:07:47,876 Speaker 1: guy a date. I was like, I was circling like 124 00:07:47,996 --> 00:07:51,396 Speaker 1: some sort of ulture waiting for them. But when I 125 00:07:51,436 --> 00:07:54,356 Speaker 1: when I met him, first met him, he looked very strange. 126 00:07:54,396 --> 00:07:58,196 Speaker 1: He had jet black hair and he had was very 127 00:07:58,236 --> 00:08:00,996 Speaker 1: white and blue blue eyes, so he didn't necessarily look 128 00:08:01,076 --> 00:08:04,196 Speaker 1: like Neil, So I mean, he was still handsome, but 129 00:08:04,316 --> 00:08:08,036 Speaker 1: it wasn't like true I was in the character because 130 00:08:08,516 --> 00:08:13,716 Speaker 1: DMC was Wimer Germany. So my armpits were dyed black, 131 00:08:14,556 --> 00:08:17,236 Speaker 1: my hair was dyed black, my eyebrows were dyed black. Wow, 132 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:20,116 Speaker 1: so I and my my skin colors pretty pale. So 133 00:08:20,156 --> 00:08:22,916 Speaker 1: I looked like a vampire a bit. But then I 134 00:08:22,916 --> 00:08:25,116 Speaker 1: had you come with Kate to see the show, and 135 00:08:25,356 --> 00:08:27,676 Speaker 1: that was a very sexy version of Cabaret. If you 136 00:08:27,716 --> 00:08:32,356 Speaker 1: remember Alan coming did it originally with Natasha Richardson, And 137 00:08:32,676 --> 00:08:35,276 Speaker 1: it's walking around and sitting in people's laps in the 138 00:08:35,316 --> 00:08:40,276 Speaker 1: audience and making out with the cast members. Yeah, it was. 139 00:08:40,716 --> 00:08:43,316 Speaker 1: It was. I played the whole show to him, and 140 00:08:43,396 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 1: look where I got there. You got yourself a mate. 141 00:08:47,636 --> 00:08:50,316 Speaker 1: So then it started. And then it started, yeah, yeah, 142 00:08:50,356 --> 00:08:53,836 Speaker 1: And we lived in New York for a couple of months, 143 00:08:53,836 --> 00:08:56,396 Speaker 1: and then we made the move to Los Angeles and 144 00:08:56,516 --> 00:08:59,356 Speaker 1: it was nine years in LA isn't it? Well? It 145 00:08:59,396 --> 00:09:01,516 Speaker 1: was it amazing though, because I'm now that I'm thinking 146 00:09:01,556 --> 00:09:03,516 Speaker 1: about this. We talked about being in the same industry 147 00:09:03,556 --> 00:09:06,956 Speaker 1: and how that has its complications, But I don't think 148 00:09:06,956 --> 00:09:10,236 Speaker 1: we would have connected in otherwise because we both had 149 00:09:10,276 --> 00:09:13,516 Speaker 1: the same schedule, so we would all be hanging out 150 00:09:13,556 --> 00:09:17,116 Speaker 1: at the same time post show ten o'clock where everyone 151 00:09:17,116 --> 00:09:19,156 Speaker 1: will be out having drinks. So it's easy to connect 152 00:09:19,276 --> 00:09:22,956 Speaker 1: then and all day just to go bike riding and 153 00:09:23,036 --> 00:09:25,836 Speaker 1: do stuff in Central Park and hang out turn a 154 00:09:25,916 --> 00:09:27,996 Speaker 1: day because we have to work till the nighttime, right, 155 00:09:28,076 --> 00:09:30,156 Speaker 1: and then we got to see each other in our shows, 156 00:09:30,916 --> 00:09:33,476 Speaker 1: so you know we got it's always a turnout. Yeah, 157 00:09:34,276 --> 00:09:40,636 Speaker 1: talent as a turnout, we'll have more. After a quick break, 158 00:09:51,316 --> 00:09:55,116 Speaker 1: we're back to Marlowe's interview with Neil Patrick Harris and 159 00:09:55,316 --> 00:09:59,356 Speaker 1: David Burka. With two hot guys in one marriage, I 160 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:02,276 Speaker 1: want to know if either of them was the jealous type. 161 00:10:02,876 --> 00:10:08,036 Speaker 1: M me. I think me. I can have a bit 162 00:10:08,036 --> 00:10:11,996 Speaker 1: of jealousy streak in my body. I get very protective 163 00:10:12,036 --> 00:10:14,716 Speaker 1: if guys are, you know, trying to make a move 164 00:10:14,756 --> 00:10:21,676 Speaker 1: on him or rarely, please, did we know couples that 165 00:10:21,716 --> 00:10:25,476 Speaker 1: have open relationships? I would just be worried all the time, 166 00:10:25,556 --> 00:10:29,756 Speaker 1: like who is he with? And what am I not doing? 167 00:10:29,796 --> 00:10:32,716 Speaker 1: And who? Why can't you know? Am I not good enough? 168 00:10:32,876 --> 00:10:37,876 Speaker 1: And so I'd go crazy if there was an open relationship, 169 00:10:38,076 --> 00:10:41,596 Speaker 1: I'd you hire a private detective and I'd figure out 170 00:10:41,636 --> 00:10:46,116 Speaker 1: where he's going. Sicilian No, I'm polish, um, but I 171 00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:48,676 Speaker 1: think that I would, you know, tap his phone. It 172 00:10:48,676 --> 00:10:52,876 Speaker 1: would be hard for me. Was that a discussion. When 173 00:10:52,916 --> 00:10:57,756 Speaker 1: we started dating, our sex life was so strong and 174 00:10:57,836 --> 00:11:01,636 Speaker 1: it maintained itself that three years. It was for long 175 00:11:01,836 --> 00:11:07,156 Speaker 1: enough that that that the idea of opening up the relationship. 176 00:11:07,276 --> 00:11:09,636 Speaker 1: We spent all of our time together all the time, 177 00:11:09,716 --> 00:11:14,556 Speaker 1: so it wasn't a relationship of convenience. When gay guys 178 00:11:14,956 --> 00:11:18,476 Speaker 1: weren't able to be out publicly and stand so tall 179 00:11:18,516 --> 00:11:20,636 Speaker 1: and be so proud of who they were, they had 180 00:11:20,676 --> 00:11:24,836 Speaker 1: to pretend that they were someone else, and therefore promiscuity 181 00:11:24,996 --> 00:11:29,196 Speaker 1: was understood because they weren't able to tell anyone and 182 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:32,156 Speaker 1: they were they were having sex on the sly. But 183 00:11:32,356 --> 00:11:35,676 Speaker 1: now it's there's a normalization to it, and I think 184 00:11:35,756 --> 00:11:38,516 Speaker 1: now in the same way guys would cheat on each 185 00:11:38,516 --> 00:11:41,796 Speaker 1: other if they're two guys. There's still an old adage 186 00:11:41,836 --> 00:11:44,436 Speaker 1: that a guy that has a wife has a piece 187 00:11:44,436 --> 00:11:46,836 Speaker 1: on the side, or a mistress or I mean, I 188 00:11:46,836 --> 00:11:49,556 Speaker 1: think historically that's I don't think that that's unique to 189 00:11:49,596 --> 00:11:52,756 Speaker 1: two gentlemen. I's a lot of the loop though, too. 190 00:11:52,916 --> 00:11:56,076 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, there's the grinder and gruff 191 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:59,636 Speaker 1: and bumble and all these true we don't I don't. 192 00:11:59,716 --> 00:12:01,996 Speaker 1: I mean, so many people are on these apps in 193 00:12:02,036 --> 00:12:04,316 Speaker 1: there that's very sing left or right. I don't know 194 00:12:04,356 --> 00:12:07,556 Speaker 1: what it is that's true. We started dating before any 195 00:12:07,596 --> 00:12:11,636 Speaker 1: of that miss that whole generation. It's a whole different thing. Like, 196 00:12:11,916 --> 00:12:15,076 Speaker 1: but when you're with somebody who's well known, there's a 197 00:12:15,396 --> 00:12:18,516 Speaker 1: that's an aphrodisiac of its own. So people come on 198 00:12:18,676 --> 00:12:22,196 Speaker 1: to you because you're you know, you're somebody famous and 199 00:12:22,196 --> 00:12:25,076 Speaker 1: that's exciting, right, yeah, right. And there's also there's also 200 00:12:25,156 --> 00:12:28,036 Speaker 1: a bit of me being an actor and also having 201 00:12:28,116 --> 00:12:30,996 Speaker 1: the jealousy of hey, well what about me? Because he 202 00:12:31,036 --> 00:12:34,236 Speaker 1: gets a lot of attention, a lot of attention like 203 00:12:34,796 --> 00:12:37,476 Speaker 1: oh I'm here too, you know that, not give me 204 00:12:37,476 --> 00:12:40,956 Speaker 1: the eye contact or like brushing aside or oh you're 205 00:12:41,036 --> 00:12:43,676 Speaker 1: nice too. This is what true To and Sting talked about. 206 00:12:44,636 --> 00:12:46,556 Speaker 1: If they all talk about that. So how do you 207 00:12:46,596 --> 00:12:48,636 Speaker 1: deal with that? What do you do? Do you demand 208 00:12:48,716 --> 00:12:51,916 Speaker 1: something more from him? How does that work? Because that's 209 00:12:51,916 --> 00:12:54,956 Speaker 1: true in every field. If you're the CEO of a company, 210 00:12:55,076 --> 00:12:58,356 Speaker 1: you're gonna get all the attention and the spouses. Sometimes 211 00:12:58,396 --> 00:13:02,196 Speaker 1: I feel like I say, behind, every great man is 212 00:13:02,196 --> 00:13:05,436 Speaker 1: a great partner, it's a great mate. And then you know, 213 00:13:05,476 --> 00:13:08,836 Speaker 1: I should feel happy and honored that he's sharing his 214 00:13:08,916 --> 00:13:11,796 Speaker 1: time with me. And then other times I'm super upset 215 00:13:11,836 --> 00:13:15,996 Speaker 1: and annoyed and I sort of just stop my feet 216 00:13:16,036 --> 00:13:19,196 Speaker 1: and say, hey, you know, I need some attention here. 217 00:13:19,396 --> 00:13:21,036 Speaker 1: And then what do you do when he does that? 218 00:13:22,036 --> 00:13:25,756 Speaker 1: I give him attention. That's easy. It was also even 219 00:13:25,876 --> 00:13:29,916 Speaker 1: more challenging both being actors, and so I think it 220 00:13:30,036 --> 00:13:34,316 Speaker 1: sometimes it is more the emotions more on the sleeve, 221 00:13:34,436 --> 00:13:38,716 Speaker 1: because I'm sharing with him good news of some job 222 00:13:38,716 --> 00:13:42,556 Speaker 1: opportunity in the same field that he wishes the opportunity 223 00:13:42,676 --> 00:13:47,116 Speaker 1: was his own. And that's understandable. And weren't two guys, yes, 224 00:13:47,196 --> 00:13:50,116 Speaker 1: and we're the same sex, which which amplifies it as well. 225 00:13:50,516 --> 00:13:52,316 Speaker 1: You know, I was working as an actor in New 226 00:13:52,356 --> 00:13:55,676 Speaker 1: York for a really long time and we decided to 227 00:13:55,716 --> 00:13:58,756 Speaker 1: move to Los Angeles. When Neil got a show in 228 00:13:58,836 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 1: LA called How I Met Your Mother, and I wasn't 229 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:05,556 Speaker 1: having the best of time in LA but we stuck 230 00:14:05,556 --> 00:14:08,156 Speaker 1: it out because he was doing a job there. So 231 00:14:09,396 --> 00:14:13,156 Speaker 1: you know, you make choices to be with the person 232 00:14:13,196 --> 00:14:15,036 Speaker 1: that you love. That was sort of the main thing 233 00:14:15,076 --> 00:14:23,076 Speaker 1: I think, taking a backseat to my career a bit. Yet, 234 00:14:23,196 --> 00:14:30,276 Speaker 1: such a weird industry as actors, because you're only kind 235 00:14:30,276 --> 00:14:33,116 Speaker 1: of as good as your next random job that you get. 236 00:14:33,156 --> 00:14:36,556 Speaker 1: There's no job security in acting. You can be on 237 00:14:36,596 --> 00:14:39,956 Speaker 1: a television show for seven years and then when the 238 00:14:40,236 --> 00:14:42,876 Speaker 1: show's canceled, you're just auditioning again. It's not like you 239 00:14:43,276 --> 00:14:47,996 Speaker 1: have tenure, and so it's a little bit complicated. But 240 00:14:48,796 --> 00:14:54,836 Speaker 1: David has additional skill sets beyond acting, and so one 241 00:14:54,876 --> 00:14:57,916 Speaker 1: of the things that came from a tenure in Los 242 00:14:57,956 --> 00:15:01,756 Speaker 1: Angeles is that you find other things that you can 243 00:15:01,796 --> 00:15:04,556 Speaker 1: do that don't require someone to tell you that you 244 00:15:04,636 --> 00:15:09,996 Speaker 1: got the job. And David went to Lacom dying and 245 00:15:10,116 --> 00:15:12,316 Speaker 1: it was fast. It was a fast twenty days in 246 00:15:12,356 --> 00:15:15,396 Speaker 1: hospital leukemia, and I just thought, I can't be in 247 00:15:15,636 --> 00:15:18,436 Speaker 1: Los Angeles and be depressed and go out for auditions 248 00:15:18,476 --> 00:15:20,836 Speaker 1: that I didn't want to do anyway, And so I 249 00:15:21,476 --> 00:15:24,356 Speaker 1: went to Lacourt on Blue and became a chef and 250 00:15:24,876 --> 00:15:28,036 Speaker 1: just started working right away. And then when did the 251 00:15:28,116 --> 00:15:31,956 Speaker 1: kids come? He got together in what year? We've been 252 00:15:31,996 --> 00:15:35,076 Speaker 1: fift together? Fifteen? They're eight now, right, so that would 253 00:15:35,116 --> 00:15:40,636 Speaker 1: be six seven. It was recently after my mom died 254 00:15:41,356 --> 00:15:43,596 Speaker 1: eleven years ago. We looked at each other and said, 255 00:15:43,636 --> 00:15:46,276 Speaker 1: life's too short. We gotta have kids now, because my 256 00:15:46,316 --> 00:15:49,556 Speaker 1: mom really wanted just kids and Wally wanted grandkids, and 257 00:15:49,636 --> 00:15:52,476 Speaker 1: so we thought, you know, we can't wait anymore. Let's 258 00:15:52,516 --> 00:15:56,396 Speaker 1: just start the process of having a surrogate and eck donors. 259 00:15:56,756 --> 00:16:00,556 Speaker 1: Having kids is a real game changer. And when you're 260 00:16:00,596 --> 00:16:04,076 Speaker 1: two guys, you don't accidentally get pregnant as much as 261 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:07,076 Speaker 1: we tried, so we you know, that's not really an 262 00:16:07,076 --> 00:16:10,796 Speaker 1: option unless you make it an actual reality. I'm on 263 00:16:10,836 --> 00:16:13,596 Speaker 1: a TV show, so we're making nice money, and so 264 00:16:13,676 --> 00:16:15,836 Speaker 1: let's do it. One of the things I believe the 265 00:16:15,916 --> 00:16:20,236 Speaker 1: strongest is that when same sex couples want to have kids, 266 00:16:20,236 --> 00:16:23,116 Speaker 1: it's because they've really thought it through, because you can't 267 00:16:23,156 --> 00:16:26,356 Speaker 1: accidentally do it. I said that in jest, but there's 268 00:16:26,356 --> 00:16:28,076 Speaker 1: a lot of truth to that, and so therefore, when 269 00:16:28,116 --> 00:16:30,476 Speaker 1: we have kids, we're ready for it. We didn't go no, 270 00:16:30,556 --> 00:16:32,556 Speaker 1: what's happening? Are we? Are? We gonna do this? It's 271 00:16:32,596 --> 00:16:35,076 Speaker 1: funny when people think that gay people shouldn't have kids. 272 00:16:35,116 --> 00:16:36,956 Speaker 1: I mean, they have to go through so many hoops 273 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:40,156 Speaker 1: and someone who's really thought about it having kids, and 274 00:16:40,196 --> 00:16:43,596 Speaker 1: someone who really takes the time to do it. So 275 00:16:44,596 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 1: what did that do to the love nest? Oh my gosh, 276 00:16:48,516 --> 00:16:51,876 Speaker 1: it was rough. It was rough, and I have to 277 00:16:51,916 --> 00:16:55,036 Speaker 1: say for the first five years, I wasn't sure it's 278 00:16:55,036 --> 00:17:01,476 Speaker 1: gonna work out. I thought that were really rocky roads, 279 00:17:01,476 --> 00:17:03,836 Speaker 1: Like I didn't know if I could be a dad 280 00:17:03,876 --> 00:17:06,916 Speaker 1: and be a husband at the same time. It pulled 281 00:17:07,236 --> 00:17:10,556 Speaker 1: us apart, and yet it brought It brings you together, Yes, 282 00:17:10,556 --> 00:17:13,836 Speaker 1: because you're having to do things once you have kids. 283 00:17:14,196 --> 00:17:17,516 Speaker 1: It's much harder to just say that's it, I'm out. 284 00:17:18,156 --> 00:17:22,516 Speaker 1: And yet you also have no time to say, let's 285 00:17:22,556 --> 00:17:27,436 Speaker 1: stay up all night and drink and connect for till 286 00:17:27,476 --> 00:17:29,196 Speaker 1: four o'clock in mark. All you want to do is 287 00:17:29,316 --> 00:17:31,756 Speaker 1: get a little bit of rest and how do you 288 00:17:31,956 --> 00:17:35,676 Speaker 1: say romantic and find that time when you have little children. 289 00:17:36,196 --> 00:17:40,396 Speaker 1: I'd like to know. I'd like to read your book 290 00:17:40,436 --> 00:17:44,876 Speaker 1: and find out we make we make concerted efforts to connect. 291 00:17:44,956 --> 00:17:48,276 Speaker 1: We'll have date nights. Date nights are staycase, or we 292 00:17:48,356 --> 00:17:52,396 Speaker 1: try to go on vacation together, parlay a couple of days, 293 00:17:52,476 --> 00:17:56,196 Speaker 1: or one or two days before after if we're traveling 294 00:17:56,196 --> 00:18:01,156 Speaker 1: for business. An afternoon sex is underrated when the kids 295 00:18:01,156 --> 00:18:05,236 Speaker 1: are not on from school yet. Wait ten minutes. You're 296 00:18:05,276 --> 00:18:07,636 Speaker 1: waiting until everyone goes to sleep to have sex. You're 297 00:18:07,636 --> 00:18:11,756 Speaker 1: gonna be a sleep or sex. You're all so excited 298 00:18:11,836 --> 00:18:15,236 Speaker 1: during the day. Tonight it's going to happen tonight. Your 299 00:18:15,516 --> 00:18:25,396 Speaker 1: world is going to be rockeding. This is right. Yeah. 300 00:18:25,516 --> 00:18:28,116 Speaker 1: I think for those that are looking to get married, 301 00:18:28,876 --> 00:18:31,036 Speaker 1: if if you're if you're coming at it with the 302 00:18:31,196 --> 00:18:35,316 Speaker 1: rigidity of what we have right now. We want to 303 00:18:35,396 --> 00:18:39,436 Speaker 1: maintain this feeling that we have right now. It doesn't 304 00:18:39,476 --> 00:18:41,236 Speaker 1: stay that way because when you have sex with the 305 00:18:41,236 --> 00:18:44,156 Speaker 1: same person over and over, it gets redundant, and then 306 00:18:44,196 --> 00:18:47,596 Speaker 1: you can try different things sort of, but then it 307 00:18:47,716 --> 00:18:50,156 Speaker 1: changes and then you don't like each other and suddenly 308 00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:52,516 Speaker 1: you're not attracted to them, and then you have to 309 00:18:52,516 --> 00:18:54,876 Speaker 1: figure out how to be reattracted them, but in a 310 00:18:54,916 --> 00:18:58,036 Speaker 1: different way because you're aging. And then you have to figure. 311 00:18:58,076 --> 00:19:00,796 Speaker 1: Then you're suddenly figure you're in love with like their 312 00:19:00,956 --> 00:19:04,316 Speaker 1: soul more than their body. But then you get in 313 00:19:04,316 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 1: love with their body again. It's just it's more, it's 314 00:19:06,316 --> 00:19:10,556 Speaker 1: it morphs, and I think, I think acknowledge that is 315 00:19:11,876 --> 00:19:15,476 Speaker 1: tenuous and kind of dangerous because what does that mean. 316 00:19:15,876 --> 00:19:17,836 Speaker 1: But in a weird way, we keep falling in love 317 00:19:17,876 --> 00:19:20,556 Speaker 1: with each other in different ways over and over, and 318 00:19:20,636 --> 00:19:22,996 Speaker 1: I think that keeps our sex life alive because it's 319 00:19:23,036 --> 00:19:26,196 Speaker 1: not just we're not trying to continue to do what 320 00:19:26,236 --> 00:19:29,716 Speaker 1: we did and then it's not going. Well, why what's happening? Oh, 321 00:19:30,116 --> 00:19:32,756 Speaker 1: there's no connection. We're trying, We're trying to do it, 322 00:19:32,756 --> 00:19:35,156 Speaker 1: but it's not working. So I'm out, Like I feel 323 00:19:35,156 --> 00:19:39,036 Speaker 1: like some people do that. What I've noticed in my friends, 324 00:19:39,156 --> 00:19:41,876 Speaker 1: on our friends, some people don't know how to come 325 00:19:41,916 --> 00:19:45,996 Speaker 1: back from a bad situation, whether it's infidelity or a 326 00:19:46,036 --> 00:19:48,916 Speaker 1: fight or whatever. Either they don't know how to talk 327 00:19:49,476 --> 00:19:53,396 Speaker 1: to each other, or there's their anger is so a 328 00:19:53,396 --> 00:19:57,036 Speaker 1: manswa they would hold. So how do you fight? I 329 00:19:57,076 --> 00:19:59,556 Speaker 1: think we just blurt out what we have to say 330 00:19:59,556 --> 00:20:02,196 Speaker 1: and we say it. There's a good thing, and there's 331 00:20:02,196 --> 00:20:04,956 Speaker 1: a bad part about that too, But we don't hold 332 00:20:04,996 --> 00:20:08,476 Speaker 1: anything in. We're actors too, so we can read your 333 00:20:08,476 --> 00:20:11,236 Speaker 1: face like there's something wrong with them. I know immediately 334 00:20:11,556 --> 00:20:15,516 Speaker 1: right what's going on. If you don't communicate, you're going 335 00:20:15,556 --> 00:20:19,036 Speaker 1: to build up assumptions and you're going to have resentments, 336 00:20:19,076 --> 00:20:23,356 Speaker 1: and I think that's more corrosive than anything. So the 337 00:20:23,396 --> 00:20:26,436 Speaker 1: lines of communications deserve to be open. Will they be 338 00:20:26,556 --> 00:20:30,756 Speaker 1: fiery and messy, of course, But we've seen couples that 339 00:20:30,876 --> 00:20:35,196 Speaker 1: pretended everything's fine when it's not, and then it feels 340 00:20:35,236 --> 00:20:38,956 Speaker 1: like it becomes this chasm exists, and then there's so 341 00:20:39,076 --> 00:20:42,076 Speaker 1: much unsaid that when it gets so bad, there's so 342 00:20:42,156 --> 00:20:45,316 Speaker 1: much to say that you don't even know where to begin. 343 00:20:45,516 --> 00:20:49,636 Speaker 1: So we see a couple's counselor and have done so 344 00:20:49,716 --> 00:20:56,396 Speaker 1: weekly for most of our entire time together, like our 345 00:20:56,436 --> 00:20:59,196 Speaker 1: fifteen years. Why did you do that? That's great to know. 346 00:20:59,476 --> 00:21:02,756 Speaker 1: Friends of ours said, you should. You should see a 347 00:21:02,756 --> 00:21:07,756 Speaker 1: couple's counselor together before anything's wrong, so that you develop 348 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:12,236 Speaker 1: skills to communicate and develop ways to be honest around 349 00:21:12,276 --> 00:21:15,276 Speaker 1: each other before it's bad, so that the idea of 350 00:21:15,316 --> 00:21:18,356 Speaker 1: going to see a therapist together isn't because it's a 351 00:21:18,436 --> 00:21:20,836 Speaker 1: last resort we go and see everything, we talk about 352 00:21:20,836 --> 00:21:23,356 Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. That's been really helpful because we 353 00:21:23,636 --> 00:21:25,796 Speaker 1: know that for that hour or two hours that we're 354 00:21:25,836 --> 00:21:29,156 Speaker 1: meeting him, we're there to work. It's work. So good 355 00:21:29,196 --> 00:21:32,756 Speaker 1: to take a moment you're in conflict, just go to 356 00:21:32,796 --> 00:21:35,356 Speaker 1: your corners for a minute. You're not in the headspace 357 00:21:35,396 --> 00:21:38,076 Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I'm all reacting. You're right. 358 00:21:38,836 --> 00:21:42,796 Speaker 1: Is there something that you've noticed about yourself or about 359 00:21:42,876 --> 00:21:47,756 Speaker 1: him that has changed? Oh? Yeah, for the last three years, 360 00:21:47,796 --> 00:21:50,516 Speaker 1: I've been sober, so I don't drink any alcohol. So 361 00:21:50,596 --> 00:21:53,996 Speaker 1: that's helped a lot because that sort of not only 362 00:21:54,036 --> 00:21:57,116 Speaker 1: made me more depressed, but it also made me more 363 00:21:57,156 --> 00:22:01,316 Speaker 1: heightened to want to start a fight, or be more right, 364 00:22:01,516 --> 00:22:06,036 Speaker 1: or be more headstrong. So that's been a big change. 365 00:22:06,516 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 1: Did you do that because Neil asked you to? No. No, 366 00:22:10,876 --> 00:22:14,116 Speaker 1: there's some substance abuse in my family, and I think 367 00:22:14,156 --> 00:22:16,356 Speaker 1: that I owed it to myself and I owed it 368 00:22:16,356 --> 00:22:19,876 Speaker 1: to my kids. It's one of the things I'm just 369 00:22:19,996 --> 00:22:23,716 Speaker 1: deeply proud about David is his determination to do that. 370 00:22:23,756 --> 00:22:27,396 Speaker 1: It's a very hard, complicated decision, but it never got 371 00:22:27,436 --> 00:22:30,236 Speaker 1: to the point where I was I was in jail 372 00:22:30,476 --> 00:22:35,996 Speaker 1: or harmed an armed myself. My bottom was not bad, 373 00:22:36,116 --> 00:22:38,956 Speaker 1: but it was bad enough that I needed to change. 374 00:22:39,316 --> 00:22:42,836 Speaker 1: I could persevere anything and I would still be with him. 375 00:22:42,996 --> 00:22:46,316 Speaker 1: He's an amazing parent. And I think what makes what 376 00:22:46,516 --> 00:22:50,796 Speaker 1: makes me love David is the depth of flavor, is 377 00:22:51,156 --> 00:22:54,596 Speaker 1: of the the amount of roots that have been planted 378 00:22:55,116 --> 00:22:57,956 Speaker 1: where you can't control where they go. And that's why 379 00:22:57,956 --> 00:23:02,316 Speaker 1: it's fun, because it's always changing. You know. Well, we 380 00:23:03,436 --> 00:23:07,236 Speaker 1: realize that we did do make certain decisions about things 381 00:23:07,236 --> 00:23:10,436 Speaker 1: to change. I learned that I wasn't a very good 382 00:23:10,516 --> 00:23:14,036 Speaker 1: listener and that when Phil had a problem, and it 383 00:23:14,076 --> 00:23:16,076 Speaker 1: took about ten years, and one day he was telling 384 00:23:16,076 --> 00:23:19,796 Speaker 1: me something. It was very troublesome for him, and he 385 00:23:19,836 --> 00:23:22,356 Speaker 1: stopped in the middle, niece and please don't say anything. 386 00:23:23,316 --> 00:23:27,996 Speaker 1: Don't tell me anything. And the thing that bothered him 387 00:23:28,476 --> 00:23:30,956 Speaker 1: is that I'm a fixer. So if somebody gives me 388 00:23:30,996 --> 00:23:35,756 Speaker 1: a problem, I'm going for the phone. So I had 389 00:23:35,796 --> 00:23:38,156 Speaker 1: to learn I know I can do this, but this 390 00:23:38,196 --> 00:23:41,396 Speaker 1: isn't the way to do this with another person. Good point, 391 00:23:41,556 --> 00:23:43,756 Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, And he one day he said 392 00:23:43,636 --> 00:23:47,556 Speaker 1: to me, stop producing me. I can do it. And 393 00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:50,436 Speaker 1: it was big. I think in a relationship. We could 394 00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:52,996 Speaker 1: all afford to just go with the flow a little 395 00:23:53,036 --> 00:23:56,316 Speaker 1: bit if you missed the flight, and if the other 396 00:23:56,356 --> 00:23:58,236 Speaker 1: person is to blame, there's no need to blame them. 397 00:23:58,476 --> 00:24:00,516 Speaker 1: Here you are, you missed the flight. Now you can 398 00:24:00,556 --> 00:24:02,876 Speaker 1: stay at the airport for a couple more hours. We 399 00:24:02,956 --> 00:24:06,036 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in our relationship coming up 400 00:24:06,076 --> 00:24:10,996 Speaker 1: with individual expectations of how the party's gonna go, how 401 00:24:11,076 --> 00:24:14,916 Speaker 1: the vacation's going to go, how tonight's gonna go, how 402 00:24:15,276 --> 00:24:17,676 Speaker 1: how that phone call is going to go. And it's 403 00:24:17,796 --> 00:24:23,756 Speaker 1: rarely met. And you can be bothered by being inaccurate 404 00:24:23,756 --> 00:24:26,516 Speaker 1: in your expectations, or you can just go with a 405 00:24:26,636 --> 00:24:31,956 Speaker 1: new outcome. No, I think expectations is huge. What do 406 00:24:31,996 --> 00:24:34,356 Speaker 1: you see that makes the marriage last? And maybe it's 407 00:24:34,356 --> 00:24:37,396 Speaker 1: just the expectation thing, which is really better said than 408 00:24:37,436 --> 00:24:40,236 Speaker 1: anybody is said. Laughter. I would have going to say 409 00:24:40,316 --> 00:24:45,716 Speaker 1: laughter and see I really was, really is. I think 410 00:24:45,756 --> 00:24:48,756 Speaker 1: that that's part of the reason, one of the main 411 00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:51,116 Speaker 1: reasons we've been stayed together, because we just make each 412 00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:53,836 Speaker 1: other laugh all the time. He makes me laugh so much, 413 00:24:54,156 --> 00:25:00,276 Speaker 1: vice versa. And that's Neil Patrick Harris and his husband 414 00:25:00,356 --> 00:25:02,956 Speaker 1: David Burke. I sure wish I'd been there for that. 415 00:25:03,276 --> 00:25:06,996 Speaker 1: I do too, you would have loved them, Ungil. Next time, 416 00:25:07,436 --> 00:25:11,276 Speaker 1: I'm Marlow, Thomas Old, Donahue. It doesn't even have to 417 00:25:11,276 --> 00:25:14,876 Speaker 1: be this, s Churchill said, every time you make someone laugh, 418 00:25:14,956 --> 00:25:18,396 Speaker 1: you give them a mini vacation. And I just always 419 00:25:18,436 --> 00:25:23,236 Speaker 1: loved that. This was great. Thank you. I really enjoyed 420 00:25:25,076 --> 00:25:28,756 Speaker 1: Double Day. There's a production of Pushkin Industries. The show 421 00:25:28,836 --> 00:25:32,716 Speaker 1: was created by US and produced by Sarah Lilly. Michael 422 00:25:32,716 --> 00:25:37,076 Speaker 1: Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had to 423 00:25:37,116 --> 00:25:42,996 Speaker 1: Be You by Stellwagen, Symfinette, Marlo and I are executive producers, 424 00:25:43,036 --> 00:25:48,596 Speaker 1: along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special 425 00:25:48,636 --> 00:25:54,156 Speaker 1: thanks to Jacob Wiseberg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, 426 00:25:54,596 --> 00:26:01,196 Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, 427 00:26:01,436 --> 00:26:06,116 Speaker 1: and Bruce Kluger. If you like our show, please remember 428 00:26:06,156 --> 00:26:10,116 Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.