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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast.

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Speaker 2: You can't predict anything.

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Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 1: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I T

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Speaker 1: E dot com. Okay, I'm on with Ryan Watson and

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Speaker 1: Brian Hagrich who are in the Caribbean island nation of

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Speaker 1: Turks and Caicos, which is a British territory. You guys

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Speaker 1: are currently out on bail and facing with the potential

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Speaker 1: of a twelve year prison sentence for having been found

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Speaker 1: to have some hunting ammunition in your respective duffel bags

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Speaker 1: with no gun with them while on vacation with your families.

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Speaker 1: And prior to this you two did not know each other.

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Speaker 2: No, no, not until what nine days ago? Around?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nine days ago?

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Speaker 1: How in the you guys can decide however you want

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Speaker 1: to start? Who wants to start? I guess whoever had

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Speaker 1: this happen to him first? Like, how in the hell

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Speaker 1: does this happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, that that would be me. So my family and

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Speaker 2: I we came on vacation here February eighth. My wife,

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Speaker 2: two kids, they were ages three and five at the time,

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Speaker 2: came down here. It's a place we've traveled to for years.

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Speaker 2: This was our fourth trip and we had a great time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this was a great time for our kids.

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Speaker 2: A lot of great stuff, great memories, and then it

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Speaker 2: all kind of went to hell when we came home.

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Speaker 1: I'll saying, and this is this is on the way home, the.

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Speaker 2: Way home, not on the way here, on the way home.

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Speaker 1: So you left, you depart when you can't left for

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Speaker 1: your vacation. Where did you leave from?

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Speaker 3: We flew up Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 1: And uh obviously went through the TSA process in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 3: Y Yeah, yeah, yes he did. I did. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So you checked a bag, you checked a Duffel

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Speaker 1: bag from home, correct, not carried down but checked correct,

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Speaker 1: got into the country, went through customs on the way in.

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Speaker 1: Just Turks and Caicos.

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Speaker 3: That's the interesting part. That's yeah, they need not scan

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Speaker 3: your bags upon entry into this country. Okay, the only

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Speaker 3: country I've ever personally traveled to you that does not do.

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Speaker 1: That, but they scanned your bags on exit. Correct, So

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Speaker 1: what happens then? Like you your vacation wraps up and

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Speaker 1: you go to the airport and everything seems to be

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Speaker 1: going fine. Then all of a sudden, it's not like

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Speaker 1: how does this play out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're about to hop on a flight, probably I

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Speaker 2: don't know, half hour from boarding, and I hear my

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Speaker 2: name paged overhead to come to the ticket counter and

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Speaker 2: my wife stayed with our two kids. I walk up

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Speaker 2: to the ticket counter and at first they weren't sure

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Speaker 2: if you know what it was about or anything. This

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Speaker 2: is just hang tight for a minute, and then they said, oh,

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Speaker 2: you've been selected for a random bag check, which, okay,

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Speaker 2: that's fine, we've all been there at some point. Sent

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Speaker 2: me over to a different area of the airport and

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Speaker 2: walk in. There are two individuals there and this they

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Speaker 2: had been selected for in a bag check. Do you

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Speaker 2: consent to this? Is this your bag? And I said,

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Speaker 2: yes it is, and absolutely I consent. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know exactly how long it was that went by, but

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Speaker 2: it seemed like a very long time. And their search

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Speaker 2: and they're pulling out my kid's puddle jumper, their floating sunscreen,

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Speaker 2: just everything imaginable and they're looking and they're looking. And

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Speaker 2: then after I would have to guess it was probably

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Speaker 2: eight nine minutes, they pull up ammunition and the guy

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Speaker 2: had the biggest smile on his face. It was like

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Speaker 2: he just won the lottery and just looked at it

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Speaker 2: and he said, is this yours? And it did a

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Speaker 2: double take and it quickly became recognizable to me that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is my ammunition I had back home, purchased legally

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Speaker 2: in the US.

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Speaker 3: What was the animal six or five PRC.

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Speaker 2: And from there then it just seemed like there was

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Speaker 2: a whole swarm of people that kind of ensued. People

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Speaker 2: were on the phone, and I was just lost. I said,

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Speaker 2: you know, I figured, okay, you know that's you can

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Speaker 2: take the ammunition. You know, deal with what we need

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Speaker 2: to deal with. And I fully expected at that point

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Speaker 2: to still board the flight with my family. And as

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Speaker 2: time went on it went on, it became more and

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Speaker 2: more apparent that that probably wasn't going to happen. And

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Speaker 2: then two police officers arrived and they were all but

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Speaker 2: ready to take me off too, I presume the police

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Speaker 2: station or investigation And I said, wait, guys like I have.

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Speaker 2: You know, my wife and my two kids are about

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Speaker 2: to hop on a plane. You know, they need to

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Speaker 2: know what's going on here, and they did not in

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Speaker 2: the worst kind of way. Even when to let them

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Speaker 2: know what was happening anything, I had to literally plead

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Speaker 2: with them to Finally where they went and got my wife.

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Speaker 2: They brought her and my children over, brought us into

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Speaker 2: a small room, wouldn't let the kids in, made them

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Speaker 2: stand outside, and gave us, I don't know, a minute

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Speaker 2: or two together where I gave her the key to

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Speaker 2: the car, a few other things, and off they went.

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Speaker 2: At that point, I still, you know, said hey, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'll hop on the next flight. I'll see you at

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Speaker 2: home tomorrow and we'll be in touch. And as things

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Speaker 2: progressed over, you know, they escorted me to the police car,

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Speaker 2: different things that became apparent that I was not seeing

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Speaker 2: them tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Man, I got I got a million questions. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: let's hear the other story from up top, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll come back in with a couple follow up questions.

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Speaker 3: I'm Rian Watson from Oklahoma. Two buddies of mine, we

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Speaker 3: were all turning forty within a few weeks of each other.

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Speaker 3: Our wives had gotten together and thought, man, let's plan

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Speaker 3: a fortieth birthday forum. We started kicking around a bunch

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Speaker 3: of different destinations, and the other two couples wanted to

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Speaker 3: come to Turks and Caicos. My wife and I did not,

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Speaker 3: which is kind of the salt in this whole thing.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, so we we agreed. We're like, all right,

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Speaker 3: let's go, we'll go. We come here April seventh and

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Speaker 3: with two other couples, have a great time, are leaving

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Speaker 3: to go home in April twelfth. I have a rolling

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Speaker 3: Duffel bag that I use, like on the weekends and such.

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Speaker 3: We grabbed it the very last second when we left

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Speaker 3: for the airport from Oklahoma City, just because my wife's

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Speaker 3: bag felt a little heavy and she was like, we

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Speaker 3: might need a place to throw extra stuff. It's like,

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Speaker 3: all right, cool, I'll grab that bag, opened it up,

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Speaker 3: looked inside, gave a little shake. Nothing, So we started

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Speaker 3: loading it up. Off we go. But anyways, we're on

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Speaker 3: our way home. We are. It's a madhouse at the

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Speaker 3: airport because a flight had been canceled. We had hired

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Speaker 3: this skypass company that basically like fast traction through security,

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Speaker 3: so we were cutting through. Some families are pissed that

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Speaker 3: we're cutting through this security line, and so there's like

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Speaker 3: a whole game of like where there's shuffling bins and such.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I'm a pretty passive guy at first glance,

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Speaker 3: and so I'm like, all right, whatever, like with my

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Speaker 3: wife and I get separated. I ended up going through first.

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Speaker 3: I walked through nothing and like, no issue. I walk

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Speaker 3: into the duty free shop and there's a glass wall

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Speaker 3: and I looked through and I see my wife standing

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Speaker 3: there waiting on the bag. And so I walked back

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, what do you wait on? Babcon cheese? Like, oh,

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Speaker 3: your duffel bag still, like it's getting inspected, okay. So

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Speaker 3: we had on the way back, we had taken her

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Speaker 3: makeup bag and such out of her out of her

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Speaker 3: luggage to make room for a bottle of wine, and

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Speaker 3: so I threw that in my duffel bag. They are

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Speaker 3: starting to rip through all that stuff, and I'm thinking, oh,

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Speaker 3: it's she's got liquid in there, Like that's not a

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Speaker 3: big deal. Like, and you know, my buddy's are ribbing me.

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Speaker 3: They're like, oh what you got in there? And we're

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Speaker 3: all laughing. I'm sure at some point. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if the security camera would be like it is, like

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Speaker 3: we're laughing and ribbing and still having a good time,

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Speaker 3: and they're I mean, they're searching like crazy through this bag,

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Speaker 3: really looking for They take everything out, run everything through it,

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Speaker 3: and then they run the bag through another time or two,

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Speaker 3: and I mean they're searching like crazy, and damn near

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Speaker 3: just assemble the bag. Next thing, you know, the customs

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Speaker 3: agent like pulls out like a bag they head. My

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Speaker 3: wife initially thought it was like the little locks that

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Speaker 3: they sometimes conclude whenever you buy luggage, and she was like,

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Speaker 3: was that the little locks? I was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: and then she turned back around. She held it up

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Speaker 3: after they'd like gone and like taken photos with it,

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Speaker 3: which was kind of strange because it seemed like they

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Speaker 3: were like taking selfies with it. But they turn around

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Speaker 3: they show it to me and I was like, shit,

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Speaker 3: like I realize exactly what that is, you know, like

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Speaker 3: that's the Ammo that I buy reloaded Ammo this place

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Speaker 3: in Oklahoma City, and I was like, that's a little

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Speaker 3: baggie of sixty five preed more than I buy, like

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Speaker 3: when I go hunting and like I'm like, oh shit.

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Speaker 3: The lady walks over and I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 3: Like I don't need it. It's only like a couple

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Speaker 3: of rounds. It looks like in there. I was like,

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Speaker 3: you can just toss it. We'll be on our way.

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Speaker 3: She's like no, she said, well here, you got to

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Speaker 3: talk to the police officer before you go. And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: all right, cool guy. The customs guy walks by and

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Speaker 3: he's like it happens all the time. Are our laws

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Speaker 3: just say that you have to talk to a police

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Speaker 3: officer And he's like, you American hunters do this all

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Speaker 3: the time. I'm all right, whatever, Like nothing seems like.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm gonna get like a verbal reprimand we

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Speaker 3: wait there forever. Twenty minutes pass by. Finally guy walks

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Speaker 3: over and playing clothes and he's like, hey, let me

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Speaker 3: like he starts shuffling through my bag. He said, let

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Speaker 3: me see your passport. He looks at it and he's like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I just want you to know you're not going to

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Speaker 3: make that flight, and he like hands it back to

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Speaker 3: me like the way he did it. I was like,

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Speaker 3: this guy's trying to be tough, you know, he's trying

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Speaker 3: to be intimidating, and I was like okay. So I

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Speaker 3: was like, hey, I'm sorry, we'll probably gonna have to

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Speaker 3: catch the next flight. We walk outside because both my

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Speaker 3: wife and I. Next thing, you know, unmarked carr walks

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Speaker 3: like pulls up. They jump out, They put us in

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Speaker 3: the car. We don't fully understand what's going on. They

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Speaker 3: take us to a kind of an unmarked building where

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Speaker 3: they take us in a room and tearorgate us and

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Speaker 3: and I'm you know, I'm still not like fully comprehending.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, I'm about to pay a fine,

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Speaker 3: you know, Like this is.

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Speaker 1: You know, when they're interrogating you, what is the line

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Speaker 1: of questioning.

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Speaker 3: Do you are you licensed to carry such AMMO? And

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Speaker 3: I'm like where I'm from, you don't have to have

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Speaker 3: a license to have AMMO. Like I was like, I

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Speaker 3: don't understand what you're talking about, Like there's not a

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Speaker 3: firearm associated with that AMMO. And they're like are you

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Speaker 3: a hunter? And I'm like yes, and can you prove it?

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, I guess I got a bunch of

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Speaker 3: gripping grins that I can show you. Like and so

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Speaker 3: I'm like pulling out my phone and they're i mean

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Speaker 3: asking a litany of questions. It was a you know,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, hey, I was like, can we

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Speaker 3: call my parents to let them know that we're going

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Speaker 3: to be late because they're watching our kids. And they

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Speaker 3: were like, you don't get it, like you're both going

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Speaker 3: to be arrested and you're both going to jail or

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Speaker 3: going to prison for twelve years. And at which point

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Speaker 3: my wife was like, I mean pleaded, like we have children,

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Speaker 3: and she broke down, and I mean I quickly broke

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Speaker 3: down as well, because I was like, it was very

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Speaker 3: apparent at that point that they weren't joking anymore. At first,

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Speaker 3: I thought it was an intimidation tactic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and they're.

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Speaker 3: Like, no, you're gonna be taken to jail tonight. And

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Speaker 3: the thing that got me I never said this yet,

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Speaker 3: but my wife asked, am I going to be cold?

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Speaker 3: And as a husband who's always considered myself a protector,

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Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not letting this happen. Like I

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Speaker 3: was like, she's not going in that damn jail. And

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Speaker 3: so I started pushing back. I'm like, look, there's got

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Speaker 3: to be another way, Like like what like, you're not

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Speaker 3: serious that you're gonna take us both to jail with

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Speaker 3: kids at home. Finally they came back there like we're

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Speaker 3: going to offer you a police bail, but you need

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Speaker 3: to find a surety. And I'm like, I've never been

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Speaker 3: I've never been arrested in my life. I don't know

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Speaker 3: what that is. Like. You need to find a Turk Islander,

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Speaker 3: like a local native that's willing to put up an

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Speaker 3: asset equivalent to your bail.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to bail.

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Speaker 3: Is and he's like, it'll be about ten thousand bucks.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, so I need to find a local

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Speaker 3: that'll put up ten thousand bucks for me. And I

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Speaker 3: was like, I've been here on a five day vacation

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Speaker 3: and I'm like texting my friend. I stuck my phone

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Speaker 3: in and so I was texting my buddies that we

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Speaker 3: were traveling with, and they're like, oh, we're going to

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Speaker 3: text Reuben, our driver. So the guy that had we'd

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Speaker 3: hired to drive us around the whole week, bless his

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Speaker 3: little heart, man, he shows up. He puts the title

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Speaker 3: to his car up as sure A kidding me no,

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Speaker 3: And so that my wife and I can be out

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Speaker 3: on bail throughout the weekend and kind of get our

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Speaker 3: feet underneath us and figure out what we had to

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Speaker 3: rental hotel room last second, call my parents. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: this is like serious. So they fly down that sun

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Speaker 3: That was Friday. They fly down that Sunday. That Monday,

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Speaker 3: we're supposed to go back in give a recorded interview

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Speaker 3: where I say, my bag, it's the bag that I

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Speaker 3: travel with. Those are the bullets that I use for hunting.

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Speaker 3: No idea how they ended up there, but so we

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Speaker 3: do that mm hmm, and they come out they're not

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Speaker 3: they're just not decided on whether whether or not they're

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Speaker 3: going to charge both my wife Valerie or not. And

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Speaker 3: so they tell my attorney they're like, proba, we just

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Speaker 3: don't know. We haven't made up her mind yet. We're

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Speaker 3: going to keep them remanded to the Islands on bail.

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Speaker 3: They have to post it again. So we had the

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Speaker 3: driver come back put the title of his car up again,

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Speaker 3: and they kept us there for another for another week. Essentially,

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Speaker 3: I went back this past Monday. They charged me. They

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Speaker 3: dropped the charges of my wife. She got her passport

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Speaker 3: and I told her it's like immediately go get on

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Speaker 3: a plane and get off this island. I went to jail.

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Speaker 3: I had kind of no idea what was going on

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Speaker 3: in the outside world. I was so here, you have

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Speaker 3: to go to Supreme Court in order to get bail

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Speaker 3: under the ammunitions or fire firearms charge. So it took

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Speaker 3: us a while to get the Supreme Court. So I

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Speaker 3: was there on Wednesday where they late Wednesday afternoon they

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Speaker 3: finally approved my bail. Sure how to get surity again,

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Speaker 3: which we knew our attorney kind of warned us. We

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Speaker 3: put the feelers out and a guy put up the

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Speaker 3: title of his restaurant. God I had never met before.

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Speaker 3: I went and met him, had a beer with him,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm in a bad situation, dude,

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Speaker 3: and he was like, I've heard you're a good person

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Speaker 3: with a really good heart. Like I'm willing to, you know,

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Speaker 3: take a chance and just you know, put this up

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Speaker 3: for you. And I was like, man, I don't know

295
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Speaker 3: how to thank you, like and so he put his

296
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Speaker 3: already for me. And I got out on bail on Wednesday,

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Speaker 3: and you know, here we are. It's been wild.

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Speaker 1: What is their attitude about the fact that you're trying,

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Speaker 1: that you're on your way out. So presumably if you

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Speaker 1: were importing ammunition, you'd be looking for it on the

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Speaker 1: way in, but you're you're leaving with it. Does that

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Speaker 1: enter the conversation at all? Or is that for a

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Speaker 1: later date when you have a trial.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's our conversation here, we we.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can't not but just sit there and

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Speaker 3: rack your brain. I mean I've had I had had

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Speaker 3: conversations with police officers while I was being transported, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the back of the car, shackled, and they're like,

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Speaker 3: you know, we don't agree with this, right, And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: hard to see it from my end, you know, And

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Speaker 3: they're like and I'm like, look, I was like, charge

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Speaker 3: me the like set a record for the fine that

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Speaker 3: you charge somebody. I was like, I'll pay for the

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Speaker 3: X rays sat on the way in so that you

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Speaker 3: can actually thwart the gun crime that you're trying to

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Speaker 3: like get rid of, Like I'll pay for it, like

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Speaker 3: trust me, Like I'm good for it. But doing this

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Speaker 3: like arresting two dads that hunt on the weekends, like

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Speaker 3: it does nothing for your crime. And so yeah, I

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Speaker 3: mean and they, you know, the police officers, you know,

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Speaker 3: off the record, and are like, yeah, we can agree more, but.

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Speaker 1: And what is this have you heard from the State Department,

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Speaker 1: the US State Department about like, uh, are they taking

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Speaker 1: a position on this or are they are they trying

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Speaker 1: to negotiate on your behalf or making any demands that

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Speaker 1: that these two people who are obviously innocent of any

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Speaker 1: kind of attempted gun crime are being harassed with this

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Speaker 1: potential twelve year prison sentence. This isn't on their radar

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Speaker 1: in some ways.

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Speaker 2: There's actually a third noil too, so we're just we're

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Speaker 2: not too I heard about that potentially a fourth we're

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Speaker 2: not sure of yet.

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Speaker 3: When I was being interrogated, they brought in a mid

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Speaker 3: to late twenties presumably. I thought she was an American girl.

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Speaker 3: I've since reached out to the embassy a number of

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Speaker 3: times because I'm concerned about her, because this is hell right,

337
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 3: and I mean, the fact that we've been able to

338
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 3: link up and kind of support each other is great,

339
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Speaker 3: and I'm like, I want to help the girl out

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Speaker 3: if I can. I don't know where she is. I

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00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,080
Speaker 3: pressed the State Press the embassy. I got a call

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Speaker 3: back that they're doing an investigation. They do admit that

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Speaker 3: they took a young female into custody, but they think

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Speaker 3: that she might not be of American descent.

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Speaker 1: Well, an article just came out about another I just

346
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Speaker 1: remember it was a male who also had learning ammunition.

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Speaker 1: So so the state So the State Department is not

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Speaker 1: making you any they're not making you any promises. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just seems to me that it just seems ridiculous

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Speaker 1: that this could be going on for this long.

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Speaker 2: I've been here for almost eighty days. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: that's any indication.

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Speaker 1: And what what are your conversations with the with the

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Speaker 1: US government.

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Speaker 2: So the State Department, We've not engaged directly with them.

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Speaker 2: It's been predominantly through Senator Wayne Line for well, Mark

357
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Speaker 2: Wayne Mark, Mark Wayne mall and I'm sorry. And the

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Speaker 2: US Embassy in Nassau.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Mark wwyn Willins from from Oklahoma has been on it.

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Speaker 3: Literally he was informed while my wife and I were

361
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Speaker 3: still being interrogated because his his niece and nephew go

362
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Speaker 3: to the school. My wife teaches a little Christian school there.

363
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 3: I say, his niece and nephew go to that school,

364
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Speaker 3: and my wife had texted her principal and so Mark

365
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 3: Wayne Mullins was already in touch with the embassy before

366
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: we were ever out of the investigation. So he's been

367
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Speaker 3: on it from the jump and has been just an

368
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Speaker 3: absolute bulldog about it. I've got all the faith in

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Speaker 3: the world and him, I just think that you know,

370
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Speaker 3: he's you know, these things take time, and so hit

371
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Speaker 3: him and Governor Stead, Senator Langford as well from Oklahoma.

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Speaker 3: You know, they've both absolutely taken Brian under their wing

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Speaker 3: and just given him, I mean, Mark Waynemullins.

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Speaker 2: Text he called me, texted me. I mean, I can't

375
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Speaker 2: tell you how many times at this point and what state?

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Speaker 1: What state are you from, Brian, Pennsylvania? Okay? And you've

377
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Speaker 1: been in church with elected officials in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: I have for quite some time. Yes, nothing Unfortunately, nothing

379
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: has happened until Ryde here was arrested as well. And

380
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 2: still from from my perspective, at a senator, at a

381
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Speaker 2: governor level, there's been no contact whatsoever. But you're getting it.

382
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Speaker 1: You're getting you're getting it from Oklahoma now, though.

383
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Speaker 2: I certainly am. It's been phenomenal.

384
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Speaker 1: Man. I That's what blows my mind here, man is uh.

385
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Speaker 1: I mean, I have like an automatic sympathy for you

386
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: as just like a couple of hunters, and and I

387
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Speaker 1: go hunting, I travel with my family. I'm always hounding

388
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Speaker 1: on my thirteen year old, fourteen year old boy to

389
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Speaker 1: you know, be careful about straight twenty two shells. When

390
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: this first came out, my first caught wind of this

391
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,199
Speaker 1: before I even knew how he's speaking to you. I

392
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: sent him an article about this, saying, this is why

393
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 1: I'm always on your case about having a twenty two

394
00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: shell in your pocket. Right, but to me, to have

395
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: it be that you have no way to fire these rounds.

396
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: This is not ammunition for a gun that would be

397
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Speaker 1: even remotely available.

398
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Speaker 2: You are.

399
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Speaker 1: Leaving with it, not bringing it in. You are dealing

400
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: in like these are very small quantities of ammo. You're

401
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: not a drug runner, You're headed home. It's ridiculous, yeah,

402
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: that you could be going through this, And it also

403
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: seems to me a little bit ridiculous that we're not

404
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: able to exert more that are, you know, not that

405
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: they're not doing it, but I would just imagine that

406
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: there would be a full court press on the on

407
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: behalf of the US government about having a couple of

408
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: our citizens wrongfully detained over something that's just so obviously ridiculous.

409
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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think it's interesting too, because the charge is

410
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 3: actually possession of ammunition and had nothing to do with

411
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 3: the fact that we were in here. It's just possession.

412
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: And so in the United States, possessing ammunition is all right, right,

413
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: and so it is. It's just strange, you know, there's

414
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 3: it just seems like there's such a more sensible way

415
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 3: to deal with this, you know, any other country. It's

416
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 3: a fine, any other sovereign country to our knowledge, and all.

417
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: These these islands, all these scribbing islands that it's dealt

418
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: with in a much different way.

419
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

420
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: Well, listen, man, intent matters. I mean, of course, of course,

421
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm sure you learned your lesson. Of course it shouldn't

422
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: have happened. Of course, there's there's some blame that you

423
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: got to feel on your own end for I mean,

424
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: you screwed up. But like intent matters, there's there's clearly

425
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: obviously no intent. There's no intent to like be importing,

426
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: distributing anything ammunition. I understand the charge is possession, but

427
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: but it's uh, you know, like I said, man, I'll

428
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: say it for the fourth time. Intent matters, and there's

429
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: no intent to do anything wrong here. It just it

430
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: really feels to me like a I mean one, it's

431
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: a real warning to other hunters and listen, man, I'll

432
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: come out and say, this could happen to anybody. It

433
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: happened to me. It happened to me in the Anchorage

434
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: airport where I was walking on and we had been

435
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: Ptarmigan hunting and I had a couple game twelve gauge

436
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: game loads in a backpack. Right, it can happen to anyone.

437
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: It's happened to many, and many of my friends. With

438
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: the fact that it could land you in a situation

439
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: like this, with the with the stress of this potential

440
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: long term prison sentence, I mean, I feel horrible for

441
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: you guys.

442
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: Man, it's I mean for me, it's not a nightmare

443
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: that is just you don't wake up from it's every

444
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: single day you think, Okay, I'll wake up and I'll

445
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: be at home.

446
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: And here I am so far as you guys know,

447
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: what what is the next step you have a you

448
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: have a A is it does it go to a

449
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: jury trial? Like like when when do you next interact

450
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: with the authorities?

451
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: So I'm I'm next up to bats. I have my

452
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 2: hearing on Friday, May of the third. So we're only

453
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: a few days away from that. And essentially, you know,

454
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: my hearing paves the way for for Ryan, for Tyler,

455
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 2: and anybody else that's you know, either here now that

456
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: we don't know about or others in the future. There

457
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: was a Supreme Court ruling that came out in February

458
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: this year that I won't say it didn't change the laws,

459
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: but it did clarified in their mind what, you know,

460
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: how this can be dealt with, And essentially it's it's

461
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,479
Speaker 2: a mine and it's a mandatory jail sentence.

462
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 3: Mandatory mandatory.

463
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: Yes, now they can handle that in a number of

464
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: different ways. The first key component is they have to

465
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 2: find what they consider exceptional circumstances, and that entails three

466
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: different factors. One, it's your prior history. Two was their intent,

467
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: and then the third factor is, you know, does the

468
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: whatever the repercussions are, does it deter others from committing

469
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: a similar same crime. So that's the first hurdle. Then

470
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 2: the second hurdle is the jail time, and that's the

471
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 2: I'll say, essentially the wild card. Because in the past,

472
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: I think there were five last year, five cases last year.

473
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: There are now four this year that, you know, the

474
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 2: five from last year, they did find exceptional circumstances. But

475
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: the last individual, unfortunately, he was sentenced eight months in.

476
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: Prison here and what had that the person that did

477
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: eight months in prison? What had he done?

478
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: Again? Similar but you know, slightly different. His was I

479
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: believe nine millimeter ammunition. I'm not sure what type of

480
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: bag it was. I don't know.

481
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: I think it was a magazine. I think it was

482
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: a loaded magazine.

483
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, but no pistol.

484
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: No, no firearm.

485
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: Now, there have been two other cases where there were

486
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 2: firearms prior to him, and essentially the individuals, I appears

487
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 2: they were misled by either the airlines whomever they spoke

488
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: with that they were allowed to bring them here, but

489
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: upon exiting again were found with handguns and ammunition and

490
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: they both were able to They stayed here for quite

491
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: a while again, but they paid a fine and went home.

492
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: And I understand you guys have I don't know if

493
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: it's one or two. You guys have a GoFundMe site

494
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: set up for for folks who feel inclined to help

495
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: you out. Is that true?

496
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, my sister set one up for us. That was

497
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 3: done while I was in jail, and so I have

498
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 3: no idea, to be honest with you, I've I've never

499
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: even clicked on the link. I've some people have shared

500
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: it with me, like somebody saying, oh my gosh, Donald

501
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: Trump Junior shared your I'm uncomfortable with it. Man, as

502
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: somebody that's a provider for you're you know, that's always

503
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: considered myself as a provider for my family, and I

504
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 3: wanted to help take care of others. To be in

505
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: a situation where you feel like you may need help,

506
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 3: is it's emasculating in a way, like it's just it's

507
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: hard to it's hard. It's something that's hard to wear.

508
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: I don't know how. I don't know how to explain it.

509
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: I'm understood, understood.

510
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 3: And completely grateful for everybody. And don't get me wrong,

511
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 3: this is this to very easily financially, like just ankrupt anybody.

512
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: And we were, you know, high on the hog. I mean,

513
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: we we work hard and you know we do you know, okay,

514
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: but like we're not. We weren't equipped to handle this,

515
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, it's damn expensive. And so my

516
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: sister she put that together. You know, my wife and

517
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: I are both huge in our faith, and we want

518
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: to be servants of the Lord, and so we've committed that, like, hey,

519
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 3: we're going to use this to help our situation, but

520
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: we want to help others as well. And so you know,

521
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: we're going to see what we can do to help

522
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: Tyler get bail. He's the one that's still in Grand

523
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: Turk prison. We want to help Brian and his family

524
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: as best we can. I mean, I don't want to

525
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: dissuade anybody from doing their own or whatever, and fully

526
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: encourage people to go do that, but I also want

527
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 3: people to know that we're not I mean, I just

528
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: want to be home, like with your kids, Like I don't.

529
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: I'd give it all right now, I promise. I don't

530
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: know what's in there, but I checked to whoever for

531
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: it so that we all three can go home. Yeah.

532
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: Man, I'd like to see you guys come home, Like

533
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: I said, it just it really, uh man. I got

534
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: empathy for you, but also just an awareness of how

535
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: something like this could happen to anyone. And uh Ryan Watson,

536
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: Brian Hagrich. I'm gonna let you guys go, but man,

537
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: we're all gonna be watching.

538
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: Uh A promise on air. I will be recorded.

539
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: This goes for both of us.

540
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 3: By the way, if we get locked up for twelve years,

541
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: you have to take our boys hunting.

542
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: On promise right now.

543
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna send you a picture of my boy from

544
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: this this past winter, the first time shooting just be

545
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: begun the weekend before.

546
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: I saw I saw one of you guys had I

547
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: saw one of you guys had a boy that got

548
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: a couple of turkeys this spring.

549
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 3: Certain that was the weekend before we came here.

550
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if it comes down to that, don't worry.

551
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: I'll uh, I will personally take them all out hunting.

552
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: I'll find some people to take them out hunting as well.

553
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: And let's hope it doesn't come to that. And also,

554
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: listeners out there, man, this could happen to anybody. If

555
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: you guys live in Pennsylvania or Oklahoma, you want to

556
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: call your elected officials and try to lean on them

557
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: a little bit to help get these guys back home

558
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: for something that you know, it's just not something that

559
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: someone should be suffering through, for a case of just

560
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: an honest mistake made in the wrong place. All right, guys,

561
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: best of luck. We're gonna keep following up. Jordan Sillers

562
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: has a piece up on the meeater dot com about

563
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: you guys. I'm sure he'll continue to track the story.

564
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: And man, I just want to wish you guys the

565
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: best best of luck. There's anything we can do, let

566
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: us know. And uh, like I said, the minute I

567
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: saw that story, I just got a sink and feeling

568
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: because how like I said, it could happen to anybody.

569
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, Yeah, appreciate the time you guys.

570
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: Take care you tooks, best luck,