Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central. Hey, what's up your's edition? Listener,
Speaker 1: It's Roy Wood, junior correspondent for The Daily Show. You're
Speaker 1: about to hear an episode of one of our original
Speaker 1: Daily Show podcasts, Beyond the Scenes. It's the show where
Speaker 1: we dive deeper into segments and topics that originally aired
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show and we chat with the shows
Speaker 1: writers and producers and experts. This week, we're talking about
Speaker 1: interpolitical dating and how politics impact online dating and relationships.
Speaker 1: This episode features the co host of the Man Enough podcast,
Speaker 1: Liz Plank, and chief science advisor for match dot Com,
Speaker 1: doctor Helen Fisher. We chat about when to bring up
Speaker 1: politics and dating, how the fall of Roe v. Wade
Speaker 1: changed people's dating habits, and how someone in an inter
Speaker 1: political relationship can make it work. It's a fun one
Speaker 1: and if you like the show, check out the Beyond
Speaker 1: the Scenes podcast. Wherever you get podcasts, same place you
Speaker 1: got this podcast. Welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast
Speaker 1: that goes deeper into topics and segments that originally aired
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show. This is what you gotta think
Speaker 1: of this podcast? Hey did? This podcast is basically a
Speaker 1: box of chocolates right. You don't know what you're gonna get,
Speaker 1: but we got it all, baby. We got the chocolate caramel,
Speaker 1: we got the butter cream, we got the almonds. We
Speaker 1: got that we'd win with the sprinkles. We even got
Speaker 1: that coconut. When that nobody likes nobody likes coconut, I'm
Speaker 1: talking to you, almond joy. That's what this podcast is.
Speaker 1: I'm Roy Woo Jr. And speaking of chocolates, Happy Valentine's Day,
Speaker 1: And we thought for Valentine's Day it would be a
Speaker 1: good opportunity to talk about love in the time of
Speaker 1: politics and whether those who date a cross the aisle
Speaker 1: could ever walk down the aisle to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about this topic. I'm joined by journalists and
Speaker 1: co hosts of the Man Enough podcasts and author of
Speaker 1: the book For the Love of Men, Liz Plank. Liz,
Speaker 1: welcome to Beyond the Scenes.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. What an honor.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much. I'm sorry if my candy
Speaker 1: rent and I didn't mean to scare anybody.
Speaker 3: I agree. I'm glad someone's talking about it.
Speaker 1: Coconut it has no place in chocolate. It just doesn't.
Speaker 1: Also joining us for this wonderful conversation this anthropologist, Senior
Speaker 1: Research Fellow at the Kinsey Institute and Chief Science Advisor
Speaker 1: for Match dot Com, Doctor Helen Fisher. Doctor Helen, welcome
Speaker 1: to be on the scenes.
Speaker 4: Roy, I'm delighted to be with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Do you like coconut and your chocolate? Let's just start
Speaker 1: with the real issues here.
Speaker 5: I was going to start out. I can do it,
Speaker 5: but it is not my favorite. I also like the
Speaker 5: white choc though. Do you like the white chocolate?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, but you can't get too much of it.
Speaker 1: It's intense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can do them all. I can do a
Speaker 4: whole lot right off the bad too bad.
Speaker 1: Now, doctor Fisher, I want to start with you. How
Speaker 1: has politics impacted our dating culture and amongst daters? What
Speaker 1: do you see you know in your research now?
Speaker 5: Well, of course you know I've seen a lot only
Speaker 5: because I've been doing this study with Match dot Com
Speaker 5: for like twelve years. So every year we collected on
Speaker 5: five thousand singles, so I now have dated on sixty
Speaker 5: thousand singles.
Speaker 4: We do not poll the match members.
Speaker 5: This is a national representative sample of singles based on
Speaker 5: the US census. So we've been asking about politics every
Speaker 5: other year for the whole twelve years.
Speaker 4: And as it.
Speaker 5: Turns out, you know, in twenty fifteen, seventy eight percent
Speaker 5: of singles would date somebody across the aisle. Twenty seventeen,
Speaker 5: it reduced to seventy two percent. By twenty nineteen, only
Speaker 5: about fifty percent would go out with somebody on the
Speaker 5: other side of the aisle. And they basically say, now
Speaker 5: they're moving away from the center, they care more about politics,
Speaker 5: and they want somebody to share their views with. Seventy
Speaker 5: six percent say they want to share.
Speaker 4: Their views with their partner. In spite of that, roy.
Speaker 5: Forty six percent today are My last study was in
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two. Just a few months ago, forty six
Speaker 5: percent had actually gone out with somebody with very different
Speaker 5: political views. Forty eight percent actually believe you can fall
Speaker 5: in love with somebody who has very different political views.
Speaker 5: And one third of singles have actually fallen in love
Speaker 5: with somebody from across the aisle. So Cupid beats politics.
Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about that is that sometimes you
Speaker 1: don't know when you're dating.
Speaker 4: Somebody that's across the aisle that's exactly.
Speaker 1: Big, and then you get together and then the next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, you'd had full kids and find out that
Speaker 1: AZAG and it's like, no, I thought we was sinking together,
Speaker 1: Like no, I voted ZAG in the last election.
Speaker 5: Well you know, I asked, I asked singles about that
Speaker 5: very thing, Wendy, you want to know And twenty four
Speaker 5: percent today want to know before the first date, and
Speaker 5: but ninety eight percent wants to know before it gets serious. Yeah,
Speaker 5: because it's a real part of a partnership, and if
Speaker 5: it's problems there, there's going to be problems that'll stick around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's interesting though, because so many things
Speaker 1: come down to I believe voting to be something where
Speaker 1: you're either voting for yourself or you're voting for the public,
Speaker 1: and it's a matter of do your interests supersede the
Speaker 1: interests of the union in the sense of, like let's
Speaker 1: just say public school versus private school, and you know,
Speaker 1: things of those matters and a lot of these things
Speaker 1: that we thought weren't issues for us don't become issues
Speaker 1: until you have a real relationship and you start dealing
Speaker 1: with money problems and then okay, yeah, let's have a
Speaker 1: real discussion about healthcare and housing and where to live.
Speaker 1: And what's the best method of transportation? Liz, you were
Speaker 1: in the piece that we did on this and you
Speaker 1: had said that you would never date a Republican. Now
Speaker 1: is what the Good Doctor's saying? True? And we Yeah,
Speaker 1: you on a date with one anyway, and yeah, just
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit. What was that experience like,
Speaker 1: going on a date with the Republican? And since the
Speaker 1: segment that you were a part of, how have your
Speaker 1: views on dating evolved?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Only for the Daily Show.
Speaker 3: Would I've gone on a date with on a blind
Speaker 3: date with a Republican back then, which I think was
Speaker 3: like twenty fourteen. Twenty fifteen, we set up two of
Speaker 3: our panelists, one Democrat and one Republican on a date.
Speaker 1: I grew up in California till I was about fifteen
Speaker 1: and that moved to Arizona.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 2: How long have you been in New York?
Speaker 1: I've been here two and a half years now.
Speaker 3: How about you, I've been in New York for two
Speaker 3: years now.
Speaker 2: It was a catastrophe.
Speaker 4: This couldn't be.
Speaker 2: They were conversing like regular people. I really like this place.
Speaker 2: The atmosphere is really nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do like the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: Atmosphere atmosphere.
Speaker 1: Hey, do you know how many particles of CO two
Speaker 1: were released into the atmosphere in twenty fourteen?
Speaker 3: Tell them about it, right, You're missing so many opportunities here.
Speaker 2: So this was, you know, pre Trump, and let's be honest.
Speaker 3: I think Trump made politics more mainstream, made them more extreme,
Speaker 3: and so it became harder not to discuss politics, and
Speaker 3: it became harder not to have an opinion, and so
Speaker 3: I in many ways, I think it got worse in
Speaker 3: the few years since I've done that segment, And I
Speaker 3: would say since the pandemic, I feel like politics matters
Speaker 3: a little bit less. And I actually think that it's
Speaker 3: because we're more polarized because now like democrats also hate democrats,
Speaker 3: and Republicans also hate republicans, Like we all are a
Speaker 3: little bit annoyed with the way that government is functioning.
Speaker 3: We all feel like it should be, you know, a
Speaker 3: lot more productive, that things should be working better. I
Speaker 3: think people are seeking to have conversations that change their minds.
Speaker 3: Like I feel like a few years ago, I was
Speaker 3: afraid to have those conversations, and I think now I'm
Speaker 3: I'm actually interested in talking to someone who has different
Speaker 3: information than me, who has different information from you know,
Speaker 3: the bubble that I live in, but that's just me.
Speaker 3: But apparently it's reflected in the data as well.
Speaker 1: But the question also becomes, where did they get that
Speaker 1: information from? Because you got different information? But where the
Speaker 1: hell do you be scrolling through the internet. I honestly
Speaker 1: feel like your search history should be the first thing
Speaker 1: you sending to somebody before.
Speaker 4: Going on the first day.
Speaker 2: That's a good one.
Speaker 1: Let's flip the script. Has anybody ever just canceled a
Speaker 1: date on you? Like?
Speaker 4: You know what?
Speaker 1: I don't like you me talking a little too much
Speaker 1: of that feminism. I think I saw I saw you
Speaker 1: at the Women's March in twenty eighteen. Let me unmatch
Speaker 1: from your ass. Has anything like that ever happened on
Speaker 1: your side? And how did that?
Speaker 4: I feel?
Speaker 1: How did that feel?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's a great question. It did happen to
Speaker 3: me and this guy. So I met this guy last summer.
Speaker 3: Someone introduced us and I was like, oh, I feel
Speaker 3: like I've met you before, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we matched on you know, this dating app. But when
Speaker 3: I saw the title of your book, I unmatched you.
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, because I write about masculinity, I
Speaker 3: read a lot about women's rights and gender. And my
Speaker 3: response was to say, oh, well, I'm glad you unmatched
Speaker 3: me because you're you have you don't have thick skin
Speaker 3: enough to.
Speaker 2: Date me, like like basically like you did both of
Speaker 2: us a favor by unmatching.
Speaker 3: But obviously I was annoyed, and and I thought about why,
Speaker 3: why why I was annoyed? Right, And part of it
Speaker 3: is is, yeah, realizing like, wow, we're kind of living
Speaker 3: in different times. And and this happened two years ago
Speaker 3: again when I think a lot of men were afraid
Speaker 3: of the me Too movement and some men thought that
Speaker 3: this had gone too far.
Speaker 2: And and again I think.
Speaker 1: That just compliment your luscious body.
Speaker 3: And exactly exactly, but in a way again for me,
Speaker 3: it just saves time and it and it kind of
Speaker 3: weeds them out. But yes, it does happen, and I
Speaker 3: feel like it. You know, it happens to a.
Speaker 2: Lot of women. That's why maybe a lot more people
Speaker 2: are putting.
Speaker 3: There, you know, political affiliation either in their photos. You know,
Speaker 3: they're kind of like waving up the flag or putting
Speaker 3: their pronouns in their bio stuff like that to just
Speaker 3: kind of signal where they stand.
Speaker 5: I just want to respond a little bit because you know,
Speaker 5: she said, now she wants to listen more to the
Speaker 5: other side. That's exactly what's happening. Fifty eight percent of
Speaker 5: singles today say they want it's a deal breaker if
Speaker 5: a possible partner can't be open minded about key issues.
Speaker 5: And I really do think I think that Liz is
Speaker 5: correct that we are swinging away from the hardliners that
Speaker 5: both sides have. You know, I mean, Democrats have problems
Speaker 5: with Democrats, Republicans have problems with Republicans.
Speaker 4: Et cetera.
Speaker 5: And singles, which is one third of the population in
Speaker 5: America just about I do want honest, open, real discussion.
Speaker 5: But they still feel they can fall in love with
Speaker 5: somebody from the other side, and in fact I did.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, then let's talk about that then for a second.
Speaker 1: When did you and your partner meet doctor Fisher?
Speaker 5: Well, he worked for the New York Times for twenty
Speaker 5: one years, so he's been interviewing forever. But frankly, I,
Speaker 5: you know, I would never put the make on a journalist,
Speaker 5: so it was just, you know, it was just a friendship.
Speaker 5: And then eight years ago we were both invited out
Speaker 5: to a place in Montana over the over the summer,
Speaker 5: and they invited journalists and academics and in the woods,
Speaker 5: and I was charmed by him, but I wasn't going
Speaker 5: to put the moves on him. But anyway, he even
Speaker 5: told me, he said, I'm not going ever going out
Speaker 5: with another woman. He was going through a horrible divorce,
Speaker 5: and I figured he was telling me something.
Speaker 4: So I never put the moves on him until one
Speaker 4: night and we were sitting down in.
Speaker 5: Tribecca. Well, we were going to walk the high line
Speaker 5: and play game of pool. This was a year after
Speaker 5: we started to go out now and then he'd always
Speaker 5: give me a hug, but anyway, the bottom line and
Speaker 5: that would be that. So I don't know what got
Speaker 5: into me, but I pulled the cocktail napkin out from
Speaker 5: under my drink when we were having the d and
Speaker 5: I said, why don't we just write down on our
Speaker 5: cocktail napkin what we win if we win a pool.
Speaker 5: I didn't know what he wrote, and I wrote a
Speaker 5: real kiss. I was set up with this hugged stuff.
Speaker 5: And I pulled out his.
Speaker 4: So he creemed me at pool, creems me, I mean
Speaker 4: creez me.
Speaker 5: And I pull out his and I open his and
Speaker 5: it says sex and clarity, and I said, I said,
Speaker 5: I got the sex, piper. What do you have in
Speaker 5: mind with clarity? But anyway, the bottom line is one
Speaker 5: thing led to another. And then I married a manature enough.
Speaker 5: He's not a total Republican. He is a libertarian. And
Speaker 5: just like Liz said, I've learned a lot. I will
Speaker 5: still vote the way I always do, but I learned
Speaker 5: so much about why some of these people are saying
Speaker 5: what they're saying. I looked at Fox News for the
Speaker 5: first time in my life. I can't look at all
Speaker 5: of it, but I can certainly look at some of it.
Speaker 5: And I am better educated by knowing some important things
Speaker 5: about both sides.
Speaker 1: So if on that day when you all went to
Speaker 1: play pool, and on his napkin, what do you want
Speaker 1: if we win pooland he wrote down privatized healthcare? Walked
Speaker 1: out right right? So how do y'all, how do y'all
Speaker 1: make it work? Because my point is that you all
Speaker 1: met at a time we're on the backside. If we're
Speaker 1: going eight years ago, where we're still second term, but
Speaker 1: it's Obama's victory lap and we're on the backside of
Speaker 1: George Bush no longer being a war criminal. He's given
Speaker 1: Michelle Obama candies. So you know, at this point Republicans
Speaker 1: aren't as wild as we think there were going to
Speaker 1: be as the climate in the country changed over these
Speaker 1: eight years. How can people keep it respectful with their
Speaker 1: apartner when it comes to political issues, when you're in
Speaker 1: an interpolitical marriage or in a political relationship in general,
Speaker 1: Like what are your tools? How do y'all make it
Speaker 1: work when y'all both watching Fox News and you go
Speaker 1: and he goes, damn right.
Speaker 4: I don't go. I don't do it. You know, I
Speaker 4: was with Greater Ginsburg.
Speaker 5: You know, sometimes it's good to be a little deaf,
Speaker 5: you know, so that you don't listen to it. But
Speaker 5: I even ask five thousand people what they do about
Speaker 5: political civility, and something like forty five percent say, I
Speaker 5: try to understand the other person's perspective, and some people
Speaker 5: will just disagree politely another forty percent. And what's interesting
Speaker 5: to me is about twelve percent of men will lie
Speaker 5: about their views and six percent of women will lie.
Speaker 4: Now this is in the beginning of a partnership.
Speaker 5: They'll lie because of course they're looking for life's greatest prize,
Speaker 5: which is a mating partner. So people are going to
Speaker 5: just put their best foot forward and pretend whatever.
Speaker 4: But the bottom line is it's correct.
Speaker 5: I mean, today people are putting it on their profile.
Speaker 5: They want to know who the other person is. They
Speaker 5: don't want to go in with these kind of scars
Speaker 5: or problems. And in my case, I mean, all I
Speaker 5: can say is that he's wonderful at kissing and hugging,
Speaker 5: he's hilariously funny, he's educated in many more ways, and
Speaker 5: there's a the parts to a human being. I mean,
Speaker 5: politics is only one.
Speaker 1: Liz, how have you handled situations where you begin to
Speaker 1: see a divide in political views with someone that you
Speaker 1: have dated? And is that something that people should ignore
Speaker 1: and just go a it's the third date. Who cares
Speaker 1: if they haven't been vaccinated yet. I we'll circle back
Speaker 1: to that later. Or is that something that you tend
Speaker 1: to dig in on and is that the right thing
Speaker 1: to start keying in on the moment you catch a
Speaker 1: whiff of that early on in the courtship.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we're in kind of a red
Speaker 3: flag culture right now, where there's a lot of people
Speaker 3: out there who are telling us all of the red
Speaker 3: flags to look out for. And again this sort of
Speaker 3: culture of I'm going to get away from anything that
Speaker 3: I don't agree with, that I don't like or that
Speaker 3: doesn't make me feel good. And I've definitely been guilty
Speaker 3: of that, and I had to kind of examine the
Speaker 3: way that I I was shutting people out right based
Speaker 3: on my own interpretation of what their opinion means to them.
Speaker 2: Right, so you can know how someone votes, right, and that's.
Speaker 3: A behavior, and if I don't ask more questions, I'm
Speaker 3: going to assign the intentions that I think goes into
Speaker 3: that behavior instead of using that as a way to
Speaker 3: get to know the person better. And so if they
Speaker 3: vote a certain way, And again I'm not saying this
Speaker 3: on like fundamental issues, right, I think the match dot
Speaker 3: com data shows that like two thirds of single women,
Speaker 3: abortion is a non negotiable right in a world where
Speaker 3: like this is about our bodily autonomy, I think that's
Speaker 3: okay to like, I will not argue about that with
Speaker 3: someone on a date. I'll argue about some you know
Speaker 3: on Fox News about that, but I won't do it
Speaker 3: in like my private intimate time on my time off,
Speaker 3: you know. But still, if someone you know, signals a
Speaker 3: certain opinion about it and an issue, and they have
Speaker 3: a different perspective. Ask questions, right, find out why, find
Speaker 3: out more about their value, you find out more about
Speaker 3: their personal experience. That's what you should be doing on
Speaker 3: a date, right, is not sort of looking for what's
Speaker 3: wrong with the person, but just connecting with them and
Speaker 3: seeing how you feel when you connect with them. And
Speaker 3: you might connect with them and learn something to doctor
Speaker 3: Fisher's point, learn something about yourself, or learn something about
Speaker 3: this perspective that you still don't agree with, but now
Speaker 3: you understand where it's coming from. And yeah, you might
Speaker 3: want to pursue a relationship with this person if you
Speaker 3: feel good when you're around them.
Speaker 2: Or you might not.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, there's a lot of people I've been on
Speaker 3: dates with that I've remain friends with because yeah, we
Speaker 3: do fundamentally disagree about certain things and there's a value
Speaker 3: difference there, But it's not about really their political affiliation
Speaker 3: as much as those values and what's behind that. And
Speaker 3: at the same time, you know, there are a lot
Speaker 3: of progressive men out there who have grand ideas about
Speaker 3: progressive politics who don't necessarily behave that way behind closed doors.
Speaker 3: Or in their relationships with women. And I know a
Speaker 3: lot of relationships that have fallen part because of that.
Speaker 3: That betrayal can feel worse for some women, and so
Speaker 3: and and again there's maybe someone who's more conservative on
Speaker 3: the outside who will be more altruistic or more egalitarian
Speaker 3: in the way that they approach the relationship. And so
Speaker 3: I would just want people to be open minded and
Speaker 3: to be curious, right, instead of using it as a
Speaker 3: reason to like shut down.
Speaker 1: Okay, so what you're saying is that I need to
Speaker 1: start going to somebody's Trump and Ron DeSantis rallies and
Speaker 1: trying to hollot some girls. That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 3: I don't would not recommend that, but if you want
Speaker 3: to go and try it, I will watch.
Speaker 1: After the break, I'm want to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: more with you ladies about what deems a deal breaker
Speaker 1: when it comes to dating and politics. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about these these dating apps that are getting more
Speaker 1: and more deeper into political ideologies, and how do you
Speaker 1: raise kids when both of you don't think the same
Speaker 1: way about stuff. It's beyond the scenes. We'll sort this out,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna tell you by time I dated a
Speaker 1: gun on the story after the break Oh boy, before
Speaker 1: we talk a little bit about these dating apps, you
Speaker 1: said something before the break live that I want to
Speaker 1: circle back to and how sometimes you have to immerse
Speaker 1: yourself in someone else's culture or ask questions and then
Speaker 1: you learn about it and sometimes you'll be shocked what
Speaker 1: you find out about yourself. Like I don't own a gun.
Speaker 1: I want a gun. I just never gotten around to
Speaker 1: getting a gun because I always end up in a
Speaker 1: relationship with a woman who don't want a gun in
Speaker 1: the house. So I just never bought a gun. And
Speaker 1: then I ended up in a relationship one time with
Speaker 1: a woman who owned a gun. And here's the funny thing.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel safe in the house. I wouldn't either,
Speaker 1: and I can't explain it, but just in my head,
Speaker 1: it was discussant thing the gun in this house, a
Speaker 1: gun and this house. Now, if i'd have met her
Speaker 1: on gun own owners dot Com, then I could assorted
Speaker 1: that right out, and it wasn't it wasn't a deal breaker,
Speaker 1: but it definitely was an adjustment, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of dating, if I'm being honest. And she was also
Speaker 1: a concealed carry person as well, but that's a whole
Speaker 1: separate set of beans. But when we talk about the
Speaker 1: dating apps, you know, like there's a conservative dating app
Speaker 1: called the Right Stuff.
Speaker 2: Calling all conservatives.
Speaker 1: A new dating app called the Right Stuff just might
Speaker 1: give you a chance to meet your true match.
Speaker 6: It was funded by Peter Tail but founded by former
Speaker 6: officials in the Trump administration who had a hard time
Speaker 6: finding like minded people to date on the existing dating
Speaker 6: apps that often made them feel unwelcome.
Speaker 4: But yeah, some of my friends would try to use
Speaker 4: the apps.
Speaker 2: The minute they became it became known that they were
Speaker 2: working for Trump, the data immediately ended.
Speaker 4: That happened several times in my friends.
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, girls will just get up and leave her,
Speaker 3: you know, abruptly try to on the date.
Speaker 1: Do you think dating apps that are rooted in political
Speaker 1: ideologies are helpful in people finding like minded partners or
Speaker 1: does it drive everybody to retreat into their own little
Speaker 1: bubbles where you can't ask questions and learn and inform
Speaker 1: yourself about the other side like Liz did.
Speaker 5: And well, first of all, you know, it's amazing how
Speaker 5: people think that this is new, that these are sort
Speaker 5: of channels that are going to keep you in a bubble.
Speaker 4: But as an anthropologist. I mean for millions of years.
Speaker 5: You know, you met that cute boy at the waterhole,
Speaker 5: He's going to think like you. He's going to do
Speaker 5: the same kind of thing every day that you do.
Speaker 5: I mean, mankind has always been, you know, in certain channels.
Speaker 4: I mean, how about on a farming community.
Speaker 5: I mean, you're still going to run at everybody at
Speaker 5: the same church and the same grocery store, and people
Speaker 5: are going to hold the same value. So the bottom
Speaker 5: line is these don't threaten me at all. I think
Speaker 5: they help people find people that are sort of like them.
Speaker 5: And what's nice about today is we've got a huge
Speaker 5: number of alternatives. They don't have to go to the
Speaker 5: right stuff. They can go to other places and learn
Speaker 5: other things. So I don't find it threatening. I know
Speaker 5: that a lot of people. It's called positive assortative mating,
Speaker 5: and that's the anthropological term about the fact that we
Speaker 5: are inclined, well, we are inclined to fall We tend
Speaker 5: to fall in love with somebody from the same socioeconomic
Speaker 5: and an ethnic background, same degree of intelligence and good
Speaker 5: looks and education. We tend to fall in love with
Speaker 5: somebody with the same values and social and reproductive goals,
Speaker 5: economic goals.
Speaker 4: Childhood always plays a role.
Speaker 5: But the bottom line is we gravitate to people like ourselves,
Speaker 5: and what these dating sides are simply doing is enabling
Speaker 5: you to find more.
Speaker 4: People like yourself.
Speaker 5: What's beautiful, as I said about today, is that we
Speaker 5: can step out the way Liz is doing and the
Speaker 5: way I certainly did, and learn other ways. Whereas I
Speaker 5: think through most of humidity, you really couldn't step out.
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, you stuck with sort of your kind.
Speaker 5: And I think right now it's a beautiful time in
Speaker 5: human evolution where we're seeing more and more people who
Speaker 5: don't share our views. We can reach in and and
Speaker 5: learn something from them and then learn more about ourselves.
Speaker 1: Just the way they said, Liz, how do you feel
Speaker 1: about that? Like do you think that these dating apps
Speaker 1: are helpful? Like if there was a dating website called
Speaker 1: Yes Abortions Got Relationships? Just spitball in the U R L.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's that's.
Speaker 2: A you should buy that and we should start that.
Speaker 4: I go to it.
Speaker 5: Not only would I go to it, but it says
Speaker 5: a lot more about the person and abortion. It says
Speaker 5: a lot of other things that are a sort of
Speaker 5: coalescent to a general framework.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I you know, once a lot of protests,
Speaker 3: you know, this year or I guess last year, you know,
Speaker 3: with ro V Wade being overturned, and I was like, hmmm,
Speaker 3: this might be.
Speaker 2: A good spot.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of guys here, which I think is
Speaker 3: encouraging for the movement and also encouraging for Yeah, relationships
Speaker 3: between men and women, you know, like these are fundamental. Again,
Speaker 3: it can be fundamental deal breakers. And yeah, I'm not
Speaker 3: super opposed to any way that helps people connect these days.
Speaker 3: I think it's I think dating has become so hard,
Speaker 3: and that's where I would love I mean, doctor Fisher
Speaker 3: knows about it because she's looking at the data, and
Speaker 3: I just think it's very hard to be in relationship.
Speaker 3: I think the pandemic we've still not recovered fully. And
Speaker 3: so anything that brings people together, you know, whether it's
Speaker 3: like a dating app for people who are on the right,
Speaker 3: a dating app for farmers, a dating app for people
Speaker 3: who write who love abortion, I'm all for it.
Speaker 2: I think it's positive.
Speaker 3: I also think that we can't underestimate the power of
Speaker 3: intimate relationships to revolutionize the world. Right our minds are
Speaker 3: changed by people that we like. It's very rare that
Speaker 3: as stranger, you know, yelling at you, or even stranger
Speaker 3: talking to you, or reading a book by a person
Speaker 3: that you don't even like.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, first of all, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 3: And second of all that that's really going to make
Speaker 3: you think differently. But if your cousin says something to you,
Speaker 3: if someone that you really like, you know, presents a
Speaker 3: different perspective, or again, an author. I mean, there are
Speaker 3: many authors that I read that I don't agree with everything,
Speaker 3: but because I like them, and because I have this weird,
Speaker 3: you know, a parasocial relationship with them, I care about
Speaker 3: what they say and I trust what they say, and
Speaker 3: so I do think that these intimate relationships can really
Speaker 3: be transformative and as much as you know should be Also,
Speaker 3: we should have sympathy for singles and you know, if
Speaker 3: they want to go to their bubble where they feel comfortable,
Speaker 3: that's also fine.
Speaker 5: Well, I just want to say something about these dating
Speaker 5: sites that people really don't really get. They are not
Speaker 5: dating sites. They are introducing sites. That's all they do
Speaker 5: is introduce you. That's all they do. And once you
Speaker 5: get out on that first date or a video chat.
Speaker 5: You smile the way always did, you laugh, the way
Speaker 5: it always did, You parade the way it always did. You
Speaker 5: assess the way you always did. The dating site it's
Speaker 5: not going to change who you are. It's just where
Speaker 5: you're going to find people and then begin to assess them.
Speaker 5: And the problem with these introducing sites is there's nothing
Speaker 5: really wrong with them. The problem is there's so new
Speaker 5: that people don't know how to use them, and they
Speaker 5: binge and the human brain cannot cope with about more
Speaker 5: than about nine options.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: It's called cognitive overload or the paradox of choice, and
Speaker 5: people choose nobody. And the other thing is, you know,
Speaker 5: because you know so little about somebody, you overweight what
Speaker 5: you know and you'll sendd me think, ah, he likes cats,
Speaker 5: I like dogs.
Speaker 4: It doesn't work.
Speaker 5: So the bottom line is one of the things that
Speaker 5: Roy you were asking about in the beginning, is where
Speaker 5: we're headed. In this annual study. One of the questions
Speaker 5: that I ask is have you ever fall in love
Speaker 5: with somebody who you initially did.
Speaker 4: Not find attractive?
Speaker 5: And in fact, this year forty nine percent said yes.
Speaker 5: Singles are giving people a chance. It's more than all
Speaker 5: of the last twelve years. Singles are getting on these
Speaker 5: sites the beginning. I hope to learn how to use them,
Speaker 5: and they're giving people a chance, and I think this
Speaker 5: is a great step forward.
Speaker 1: Ugly people. Ugly people change just more specific. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's the anthropological term, but in a ray,
Speaker 1: we'll just say variety will be nice. They're giving a
Speaker 1: variety of faces atunity one or two when we talk
Speaker 1: about like deal breakers, though, should dating be more about
Speaker 1: the issues or the party affiliation when we come when
Speaker 1: it comes time to talking about how you prioritize looking
Speaker 1: for a lifelong partner, because you know, I've also in
Speaker 1: my single them as of late, I found myself on
Speaker 1: dates with women who were not vaccinated by choice, and
Speaker 1: I had never been somebody thought about until it was
Speaker 1: actually sad and I was like, I don't agree with that,
Speaker 1: but all right, let's see where a second date goes.
Speaker 1: I guess. So it wasn't like should you date along
Speaker 1: party lines or along issue lines? Like how would Roe v.
Speaker 1: Wade change? How did that change dating? For instant?
Speaker 5: That changed it a lot, Just as lizid said, I mean,
Speaker 5: we did a study on this this past year obviously,
Speaker 5: and two out of three women will not date somebody.
Speaker 4: With a posting views on abortion.
Speaker 5: And you know, when I was talking with my colleagues
Speaker 5: at Match and Justin Garcia, who I work with to
Speaker 5: analyze the data, you know, people thought, well, you know,
Speaker 5: people are coming much more flexible about politics, but they're
Speaker 5: not flexible about abortion. And I get you know, once
Speaker 5: again as an anthropologist, I get it. You know, politics
Speaker 5: comes and goes. I mean Trump will come and Trump
Speaker 5: will go, Biden will come and Biden will go. They
Speaker 5: will come and go. But having a baby does not
Speaker 5: come and go. You know, if you're not ready to
Speaker 5: have a child, or you are ready to you know,
Speaker 5: whatever it is, you are going to have that child
Speaker 5: for the rest of your life.
Speaker 4: It doesn't come and go.
Speaker 5: And I'm not I'm not at all surprised that this
Speaker 5: is the top of the list right now because this
Speaker 5: is a Darwinian issue, this is not a social issue.
Speaker 1: So then to that point, how are people with opposing
Speaker 1: views raising the kids? How do you do that? Like
Speaker 1: in an inner political home? Like I know that the
Speaker 1: whole child vaccination, you got to be vaccinated to go
Speaker 1: back to this school divided, and I'm talking from personal
Speaker 1: conversations I've had in group chats with other married friends
Speaker 1: where it was a serious issue because they didn't realize
Speaker 1: they were in a vaxxed anti vac excuse me, an
Speaker 1: inter vaccination home. By the way, the antiological term.
Speaker 4: Anthropologic, Yeah, that's a good one. I like it.
Speaker 1: How are they opposing political views like influencing child rearing?
Speaker 5: Now, well, this is something I've not been able to
Speaker 5: tell to anybody, and thanks for asking. In this last study,
Speaker 5: with this, forty nine percent of Republicans do not want
Speaker 5: their children to marriage somebody on the other side of
Speaker 5: the aisle, and thirty three percent of Democrats.
Speaker 4: Do not want their children to marry somebody from the
Speaker 4: other side of the aisle.
Speaker 5: So that's something they somehow feel that they can weather
Speaker 5: the differences between themselves and their partner. But it comes
Speaker 5: to children having children and sort of passing on their
Speaker 5: values to next generations with their DNA, they feel very
Speaker 5: strongly about it. I'm not surprised that the vexers and
Speaker 5: the anti vaxxers are having struggles.
Speaker 1: Liz, what have you seen, you know, just in your
Speaker 1: own experiences with you know, either dating people with children
Speaker 1: or your friends who have children who are struggling now,
Speaker 1: especially when we start talking about preteen children that are
Speaker 1: a lot more politically aware themselves.
Speaker 3: I dated someone with kids and this was you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't even a political issue. But kids bring in
Speaker 3: all kinds of different things, right for a couple, and
Speaker 3: especially when you're mixing to you know, two people who
Speaker 3: have kids and now have new partners, that's that that
Speaker 3: can come with challenges. My perspective is as a single
Speaker 3: person who doesn't have kids, but certain things.
Speaker 2: Are not a political issue. They're a safety issue, right.
Speaker 3: Vaccination, although it's become a political issue, which is you know,
Speaker 3: boggles the mind. And I don't even know if we
Speaker 3: could have predicted before the the well, I don't think
Speaker 3: we could have predicted the pandemic. But also I don't
Speaker 3: think we could have predicted that something like that, that
Speaker 3: that is a health issue becomes a political issue.
Speaker 2: And it's the same thing with the gun and that
Speaker 2: woman you know who were dating who has a gun.
Speaker 3: Is that really about affiliation or is about your safety
Speaker 3: and your feeling of safety a physical safety in that relationship.
Speaker 3: And similar with abortion, I mean, if I'm going to
Speaker 3: risk going to jail to have sex with you, Like,
Speaker 3: like if you're trying to keep that happening, and like,
Speaker 3: are for that.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to have sex with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like the that's the bar, the bars in hell,
Speaker 3: but that's the bar, you know.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to go below that. And I feel
Speaker 2: okay about.
Speaker 1: That all right, after the break, hopefully we can leave
Speaker 1: with some hope here that doctor and Adam Liz and
Speaker 1: we can figure out ways that people can live in
Speaker 1: a home with an unvaccinated gun on her while raising
Speaker 1: a multi gendered child in this new universe in which
Speaker 1: we're living in. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back now. Beyond the scenes. We are around in
Speaker 1: third and headed for home. We have been talking about
Speaker 1: interpolitical dating. I didn't even know that was the official term.
Speaker 1: Just I called it dating net girl that watched a
Speaker 1: little too much Fox News, but she cooked good, so
Speaker 1: I'm ignore it. That's what I call it. Letz. I'll
Speaker 1: start with you first, what do you think the future
Speaker 1: of dating looks like? Do you think it gets more technical?
Speaker 1: Do you think people will get back to just dating
Speaker 1: off feeling instead of letting sites aggregate? So many different
Speaker 1: details of us.
Speaker 3: I think people are really hungry for human connection right
Speaker 3: after Again, I talk about the pandemic not because I
Speaker 3: want to bum people out, but because I want people
Speaker 3: to be compassionate with themselves that we went through something
Speaker 3: really traumatic and.
Speaker 2: To be like, everything's fine now. It is not.
Speaker 3: You know, it can be helpful in the short term,
Speaker 3: but it can make you kind of blame yourself for
Speaker 3: certain consequences of that. And so what I've been noticing
Speaker 3: is is more men kind of honestly hitting on me,
Speaker 3: which I am so into men coming up to me
Speaker 3: at coffee shops or in the street, striking a conversation,
Speaker 3: right like in a respectful way. I no, yeah, not
Speaker 3: yelling from the other side of the street to impress
Speaker 3: your male friends, but actually seeking to connect with a
Speaker 3: person I think is so wonderful. And I have noticed
Speaker 3: that people have been more actively doing that because a
Speaker 3: lot of people. As much as dating apps have helped
Speaker 3: us in tramt in this way, is they also can
Speaker 3: be not a fun experience for all of the reasons
Speaker 3: that doctor Fisher laid out where people might not be
Speaker 3: using them in the best way.
Speaker 2: So I think people are hungry for human connection.
Speaker 3: I also think we need to date more compassionately. We
Speaker 3: need to be more compassionate with ourselves, We need to
Speaker 3: be more compassionate with the other person, and we have
Speaker 3: to give ourselves more time. I did this podcast called
Speaker 3: ras to thirty five with Monica Patman and Dak Shepherd
Speaker 3: where I froze my eggs with Monica and we documented
Speaker 3: the whole thing, and part of doing that was talking
Speaker 3: about the fact that a lot more women are freezing
Speaker 3: their eggs. It's something that's not accessible to all women
Speaker 3: and should be and I'm very lucky to be one
Speaker 3: of those women. But more women are delaying motherhood, are
Speaker 3: delaying these big decisions about who they want to have
Speaker 3: kids with, who they want to marry. And I think
Speaker 3: that buying time is great. I think that we should
Speaker 3: all take a little bit more our time to get
Speaker 3: to know ourselves, to get to know someone else, and
Speaker 3: to kind of take the pressure off. That's what I
Speaker 3: see for us. That's why I'm approaching dating. Uh, And
Speaker 3: it's been a lot more it's been a lot better
Speaker 3: for me since I've done that.
Speaker 1: Doctor, What do you see the future of dating looking
Speaker 1: like based on the data?
Speaker 4: Yeah? No, I am extremely optimistic. Actually, and what Liz.
Speaker 5: Is actually talking about is something I've written quite a
Speaker 5: bit about called slow love. And what we're doing is
Speaker 5: in you know, fifty years ago, people married in their
Speaker 5: very early twenties. Now they're married in their very late
Speaker 5: twenties or even early thirties. So there's this long period
Speaker 5: of pre commitment where you getting in all yourself, you're
Speaker 5: trying people out, You're getting rid of what you don't want,
Speaker 5: you know, like the girl with the gun in the
Speaker 5: house and going on to something.
Speaker 1: You get rid of her. She got rid of me.
Speaker 4: Oh oh, dear, I did you suffer? Are you sort
Speaker 4: of glad? You're not well?
Speaker 1: She had pulled a gun on me. And you're too
Speaker 1: busy too, she said, I think you're getting into your
Speaker 1: me period of your life right now. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that good.
Speaker 4: Well the hell well?
Speaker 5: Anyway, I am extremely optimistic. And by the way, nobody
Speaker 5: roy gets out alive. We all get dumped, there's no
Speaker 5: question about it. But anyway, the bottom line is, you know,
Speaker 5: divorce is very low right now. It's been actually very
Speaker 5: low for the last fifty years. It's the nineteen seventies
Speaker 5: was when it was it was higher. And we're dating
Speaker 5: on the Internet, and the data show that if you
Speaker 5: met somebody on the internet rather than off the internet,
Speaker 5: any one of these sites anywhere, you're less likely to divorce.
Speaker 5: And the longer you court before marriage, the more likely
Speaker 5: you are to remain together. And those two huge worldwide
Speaker 5: trends of dating on the internet, meeting people on the
Speaker 5: internet and the slow love meeting you know, spending a
Speaker 5: long time figuring out who you are, are both very
Speaker 5: matter of fact. If you court somebody for about three
Speaker 5: or more years, you're thirty.
Speaker 4: Nine percent less likely to divorce. So is slow love.
Speaker 5: It's happening all over the world, and I think last,
Speaker 5: but not least for me. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 5: I study the brain. I mean we've put over one
Speaker 5: hundred people into a brain scanner. I mean that we
Speaker 5: know the brain circuitry of romantic love. It's a basic
Speaker 5: drive comes out of the most primitive parts.
Speaker 4: Of the brain. We will always love.
Speaker 5: Courtship will change, but the feeling of desire to be
Speaker 5: with somebody will never change. I mean, it's primordial, it's adaptable,
Speaker 5: and it's eternal. And I do think that with more
Speaker 5: of us Internet dating, where you get a wide variety
Speaker 5: of people.
Speaker 4: You've got to.
Speaker 5: Handle it properly. And a courting for a long period
Speaker 5: of time is going to send us to wars. Actually
Speaker 5: a few decades of relative family stability.
Speaker 1: I'll leave you, ladies with one last question to take
Speaker 1: us home. What words of encouragement do you have for
Speaker 1: our viewers who are looking for love but don't want
Speaker 1: to do it digitally? Is there any whole form? Doctor?
Speaker 1: How do I meet people the old fashioned New York
Speaker 1: times at a pool hall right on the napkin? Wait?
Speaker 1: How do we do it? Is there still hope for that?
Speaker 1: How do they navigate the science?
Speaker 4: They got to get out there any way you get
Speaker 4: out there? Okay.
Speaker 5: Some people do it on the internet in their pajamas.
Speaker 5: Some people want to get all dodd up and stand
Speaker 5: in a bar. Whatever works, Just get out there. And
Speaker 5: by the way, if I had to sum up, what
Speaker 5: is catnip to the opposite sex?
Speaker 4: It's people who are happy.
Speaker 5: Just be happy, smile, be energetic, be interested in who
Speaker 5: other people are.
Speaker 4: It's catnip to the opposite sex.
Speaker 1: And Liz, what hope would you give like because you've
Speaker 1: been approached in the real world.
Speaker 2: Welcome through I'm a survivor. Yes, No, I've been on dates.
Speaker 3: I've been on successful dates with men who have come
Speaker 3: up to me at a coffee shop.
Speaker 2: Go coffee shops? Are these third places?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: The first place is you're home, second place where you work,
Speaker 3: and these third places the gym. And again I'm not
Speaker 3: saying go harassed women while they're working out, but there
Speaker 3: are of approaching strangers and smiling, to doctor Fisher's point,
Speaker 3: just smiling, looking up.
Speaker 2: From your phone, put your phone in your pocket. Okay,
Speaker 2: there are all.
Speaker 3: Kinds of amazing people that you know you're not seeing
Speaker 3: if you're if you're not looking up. And so I
Speaker 3: have two pieces of advice. One of them, think about
Speaker 3: who your future partner is, right, like on a Saturday,
Speaker 3: where would they be go there? Would they be at
Speaker 3: the gym?
Speaker 2: Go to the gym? Would they be at a museum?
Speaker 2: Go to a museum.
Speaker 3: Would they be at a panel about intergalactic universes?
Speaker 2: Like, go to that panel.
Speaker 3: And the second thing is every day, give a compliment
Speaker 3: to anybody of any gender. And this is not as
Speaker 3: again a way of you know, not even as an
Speaker 3: attempt to seduce people or to really make a lasting connection.
Speaker 3: But it just kind of makes you more comfortable talking
Speaker 3: and approaching someone that you don't know. Just practice the
Speaker 3: art right which used to be much more normal talking
Speaker 3: to strangers. Practice the art in your every day life
Speaker 3: in small ways, and then yeah, I don't make you
Speaker 3: more likely to end up striking those conversations with people
Speaker 3: that you do find attractive, and you are a little
Speaker 3: bit more nervous to go up to You'll have done
Speaker 3: it before.
Speaker 5: And men like it, by the way, they do like
Speaker 5: it women who try to pick them up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, everyone loves a compliment.
Speaker 1: Let me think, Yeah, I do. It doesn't happen often.
Speaker 1: When it happened, we usually have on a date.
Speaker 5: Something like Yeah, something like ninety percent of men are
Speaker 5: perfectly happy if a woman moves in for the first kiss,
Speaker 5: if a woman asks for her you know, for your
Speaker 5: telephone number. But women don't do it. But the young
Speaker 5: are beginning.
Speaker 1: To, Yeah, well, go where your potential mate is and
Speaker 1: with that lives and Helen, I bid you with do
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna heait to the home depot because I
Speaker 1: hope she's on the paint aisle, because I need some
Speaker 1: help pint in this house. That's all the time.
Speaker 2: Don't we all do? Not what we're looking for? Someone's good.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just stand by the paint and be like, hello, baby,
Speaker 1: would you like to come and help me my? Oh
Speaker 1: while we eat pizza. Liz Helen, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: That's all the time we have for today. But I
Speaker 1: appreciate you both for going beyond the scenes with me.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, Thank you all.
Speaker 1: Listen to The Daily Show Beyond the Scenes on Apple Podcasts,
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