WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Markovian Parallax Denigrate 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.400 Thinking Sideways is not brought you by a severed head, 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:06.360 or maybe it is. I'm sure you've heard of this 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.120 cool new subscription service called Hunt a Killer, the interactive 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.760 investigation delivered to your doorstep each month. You should check 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.680 it out Hunt a Killer dot Com. Their form of 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.959 storytelling puts you into the serial killer's mind. It's like 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.880 you're living in your favorite true crime series. They've created 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.880 a fictional world for true crime fans. You actually live 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:31.280 inside of the story. And if investigating isn't your thing, 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:33.880 you probably know someone who would love this. As a gift, 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.440 as a special offer to our listeners, they provided us 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.479 with a temper set off code. That offer code is sideways. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.360 So go to hunt a Killer dot com and enter 0:00:45.440 --> 0:01:03.240 the code. Sideways. Thinking says I don't know stories of things. 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:07.880 We simply don't know the answer too. Hey guys, welcome 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.360 to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:17.520 Devin joined most weeks by and Steve. We're going to 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:22.800 talk about a mystery tonight. We are, Yeah, not surprising. Uh, 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.319 and I'm pretty sure actually this was a listener suggestion 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.920 at one point, but I can't find it on the 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.400 list So if it was I'm really sorry, mysterious listener 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.440 for not being able to find you. But if it wasn't, 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.400 yeah take it, yeah on the list. You probably can't 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.240 find it because it's misspelled. Probably that's what I was 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.280 wondering about, because I want looking for it too, and 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.440 I tried some different spellings. Couldn't you Oh sorry, whoever 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.600 you were, we probably would have misspelled your name anyway, yeah, 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.400 or mispronounced it that too. So this week we're going 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.800 to talk about this thing called the Marcovian parallax denigrade, 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:00.280 which you know, I think we'll probably call the mp 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:06.920 D works at that point mp D. Realistically, I'm not 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.160 going to say it too many times because it's just 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.760 a mouthful guy is uh. Yeah, I've been pondering the 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.000 meaning of it all. Yeah. So the quick there's a 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.480 quick overview here kind of and that is that we're 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.079 going to talk about the Internet or the pre Internet. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.560 We're really just like pre internet spam. I don't know, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.960 I don't feel like there's a very good yeah, Pretmordal spam. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.440 It's amazing how quickly somebody thought about spam and average Yeah, 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.520 that didn't even exist and it came up with it already. Yeah. Yeah, 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.520 so I'm I don't think there's actually a really good short, 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:41.760 you know, cliff notes of this. So do you guys 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.959 want to just jump right in? That's probably the best way. Okay, cool. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.840 I will say that there's somebody in the middle of it, 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.200 but we'll talk about that later. And this is often 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.280 called one of the very first Internet mysteries, which means 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.480 that I've finally done it. You found the very first 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.440 found the first Internet mystery. That's so early the Internet 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.480 didn't really quite exist. It wasn't really the Internet. Yeah. Actually, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.520 so we are going to talk about this thing that's 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.640 pre Internet. It's called u senet. That's how you say, right, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.200 is it usenet or use net? That is a good question. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.919 I've I've wondered about this for years. It was because 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.840 use as it if it started with an age almost 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.880 use or is it? Yeah? I think it's using that 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.799 just because that's easier to pronounce. Yeah, So it was 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.400 used that was usc was at a an acronymic for 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.440 university something or another? Or was it just use as 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.640 in use We're going to use this net? Or did 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:41.360 it have a use? Another mystery also useless net. Yeah, 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.760 that's where your wife goes down. I think maybe it 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.560 was the user network you snet with my guests, but 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.080 I don't Please don't quote me on that, And if 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.520 somebody knows, please don't like make fun of me for 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.160 not knowing, because I'm sorry. I never saw call that 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.720 really said. That's why I was curious. Yeah, this use 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:01.840 net or us net was created in nineteen seventy nine, 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.000 though it didn't really it was. It was like conceptualized 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.360 in nineteen seventy nine and then became publicly quote unquote 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:13.080 publicly available in nineteen eighty. As with the real Internet, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:17.160 usenet was made for universities. The University of North Carolina 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.880 and Duke University were the first early adopters of this system. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.640 And just for those of you who don't know, the 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:28.960 Worldwide Web, which is the Internet, is a weird thing. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.560 I don't think people conte of the Internet a lot, 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.800 but the like, there are parts of the Internet that 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.680 we don't know exists. There's like quantum Web and all 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.640 this stuff. It's really fascinating. If you're interested in you 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.960 should go read on it. But the world Wide Web 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:48.480 is something that's slightly different from the Internet even but 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.720 the Worldwide Web took shape in nineteen UM and that 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.640 was like the first direct I P connection between Europe 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.680 and North America. That's when that first I P connection 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.880 was established. Was an eight eight, So use not it 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.640 is about eight years ahead of its time. And granted 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.880 there there were some other kind of proto Internet network 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.880 situations before then, dating back to I think the fifties. Yeah, 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:20.120 in nineteen I think military or just like on site 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.640 local networks that were all connected to each other. And 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:25.800 then yeah, even before the Internet, there was stuff like 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.239 just you call bbs as if you had a modems 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.040 remember modums? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember thinking, man, how 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.080 could they get any faster? Oh yeah, no, I had 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.040 that three hundred bod motive and I would dial with 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.720 these bbs as and stuff, and I'm watching the characters 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:44.760 across the screen. And then I upgraded. Oh wow, it 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:49.080 was so cool. Yeah. I remember the pain of trying 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.960 to watch an image appear. Yeah, like it wasn't even 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:55.680 you know, I was young enough, it wasn't even it 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.719 was anything dirty. I'm on National Geographic looking at giraffes 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:07.560 Man and Carter Gotta take forever. Yeah. For the layman, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.480 we can say that you snet was just like a 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.920 mail server. It was part mail server, part file transfer, 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.200 and part kind of announcement board that'd be similar to 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.279 an early forum situation, kind of like Reddit or like 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.200 the bulletin board for that way. They were kind of 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.560 like forums also. So my real quick question because of 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.880 course now you can't see images of this stuff very easily. 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.120 But most of what I understand is it was purely 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.599 character driven. It was text driven. It wasn't like today 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.760 where there's words and picture. Yeah, there's no, it's just works. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:42.800 I think they're Sometimes they had like you know, a 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:48.159 bumper um maybe maybe a border around something, but I 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.400 don't even think that. I think it was like asky 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:56.000 imagery was imagery. Yeah, it was totally just text based, Okay, 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.200 I just I was pretty sure that, but I wanted 0:06:58.200 --> 0:06:59.960 to double check. Just being as old as it was, 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.839 that's pretty sure that couldn't be supported. He probably could 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.000 use like FTP do since images not huge high res ones, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.080 but but that would have been that wouldn't have been 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.880 on the announcement bulletin board sort of situation. That would 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:13.640 have had to have been filed trans something you got 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.080 to explicitly say. I want to transfer this to my 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.800 own ready Are you ready? Are you ready for this 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:20.840 incoming thing? Because it's going to take up all your 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.320 right out. Actually it was probably faster at that point 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:25.840 just to put it on the three and a half 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:31.520 inch floppy drive and mail it too, printed out line 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.520 by line. It's hard. It's sorry for our listeners, who 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.560 are all young whipper snappers to appreciate this. Yeah, becaun 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:39.320 use is I know that a number of our listeners 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.040 are not so many of them will remember stuff like that. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.040 All right, so old people, should we get back to 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.160 the story. Yeah, yeah, Oh no. I was doing a 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.600 little searching for the for information on this one and 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.680 on our pannet well on the Markovian denigrade in general, 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.000 and and I came across this paper. It was an 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:03.360 academic paper. Uh. They were talking about the relationship between 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:07.480 usenet and the DARPA DARPA neet. And because in those 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.720 days using it was always trying to interface and interact 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.080 with darpaennet and darpnet was or arpanet. I guess, yeah, 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:16.960 I would be. I guess it would be our pay Okay, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:18.640 so the ARPA they would be trying to get into 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.160 our pen and and and and arponnet was very very exclusive, 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.960 very choosy for obvious security reasons. About the arpanet, for 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.920 those who are unaware, is a packet switching network that 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:35.640 was It was for the military, basically the advanced research projects. Yeah, 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:40.320 and and so uh this paper was it was hilarious 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:42.600 because it was all about the relationship between the two 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:47.320 and how it was an example of like sort of 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.000 gender bias because to them, the authors of this paper, 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.520 who were obviously somewhere from like, you know, the the 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:59.839 fever swamps of academia, ARPA represented like the masculine, and 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.960 he was using at the feminine trying to get access 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.600 and he was going ah no, and and just being 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.560 mean for the And this is this is somebody who 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.120 in one of our universities writing a huge freaking research 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.400 paper on this issue of ARPA being mean and kind 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.440 of like masculine. So it's not a new issue. Kids 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.480 have always been always been here. Yeah yeah. So and 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:33.400 you know, where there is electronic mail, there is spam naturally, 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.240 of course, and you set had a mail system and 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.280 a forum system, which we're kind of it's my understanding 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.480 that the way that replies worked is it was kind 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.240 of like emailing to the board almost because it was 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.640 your user name was your email address. Basically, I don't 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.760 know if you could like email somebody specifically back or 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.880 if it just got posted publicly to the board. It did, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.320 but I think it was like through the email. It's 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.880 hard to really gradually how it works. Yeah, but what 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.840 was really nice about the system is there were no 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.160 links that you could click on. Yeah, so that's a 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.360 really great thing. It's like, hey, your password is all 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.520 messed up, click on this link and give us your password, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.600 will fix everything that None of that exactly. So in 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:22.280 uh usenet developed a unique spam issue, and it was 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.680 spam on its news feeds in the comments section, mostly 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:33.000 comment words, but also on boards. News feeds were servers specific. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.920 So the way that use networked is that each each 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.600 like little community, had its own server, but the servers 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.440 talked to each other. So you would get if somebody 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:48.320 posted something on like the Everybody news bulletin, you could 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.120 specify that that news bulletin would be shared on all 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:56.520 of the servers. They would communicate and yeah, kind of 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.840 infect each other almost, which is kind of what happened 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:05.559 with this. Well, these I guess the posts were subjected 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:12.640 Marcovian parallax denigrade post. Yeah, the spam posts and the 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.600 text of these spam messages were all different. They were 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:21.160 there reportedly hundreds, like within just on one day on 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.240 August five. Yeah, that this happened. Um, most of them 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:30.600 were subjected um Marcovian parallax denigrade, but some of them 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.680 just had those words in them that people kind of 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.559 attribute those two maybe being part of this as well, 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:41.680 but it's hard to tell. And the messages looked sounded 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:46.600 something like this, I'm going to have one. They are 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.400 real words random, Um, so I'm gonna have one of 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.679 you guys read this thing. Okay, Okay, we got a 0:11:52.760 --> 0:12:00.680 Rochambeau for this, alright, I get it. Okay, go for it. JENNERB. McKinley, 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:08.600 A Break, Newtonian infer Ca, Update, Co and Air Collaborate, Ruse, Sportswriting, Rococo, Invocate, Tassel, 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:15.480 shad Flower, Debbie Sterling, Pathogenesis, es Gutar, Adventitious, Novo I 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:22.199 T T Most Chairperson, D White, Hurtzag Differ, Pinpoint, Dunc, McKinley, Pendent, Firelight, Uranus, 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:31.199 episodic medicine, Diddy, crag flogging, very Act, Brotherhood, Web Impromptu file, countenance, Inheritance, cohesion, refrigerate, morphine, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:35.400 napkin in late Gennaro namable yearbook hark. Okay, first off, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:41.839 you miss pronounced rococo. Of all the things I miss pronouncing, there, 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:47.040 that's the one you go for. Okay, that really bothered me. Now, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.439 listeners you listen to this podcast, please please take a 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.520 time go back thirty seconds and listen to it again. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.000 Listen to it like five times in a row. Actually, please, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.880 somebody make that your ringtoe. Yeah, you are going to 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:07.040 confuse yeah for real. So you, like us, probably immediately 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.600 assumed that this is a code of some kind. Um, 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:13.920 try to grab it. Let me put this on the 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.400 back burner. I gave it about ten seconds that I 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.400 decided that it's not worth it. They gave it more 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:19.959 than that. But let's put it on the But let's 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.040 put it on the back burner and we'll talk about 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.679 it in theories. Okay. The users of you Senet, predictably 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.559 were the same type of people who are users of 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:36.600 like Reddit these days, and predictably, when there were hundreds 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.640 of these gibberish messages spamming the daylights out of them. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.520 They decided to take action and launch a full armchair investigation. 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:46.360 I mean they lost their minds. Yeah, I think they did. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.679 They a lot of them did, and just like the 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.840 users have read it, they lost interest, like within two days. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:56.680 This is not the sort of thing that really grips 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.960 you and holds you for a long time. Yeah, it's 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:03.439 not just why we're doing an episode on it. Interestingly, 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.400 I mean for these guys, really it was. You got 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.360 to remember that this was like probably the first mass 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.920 spamming out there, so we're totally used to it now 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.240 we just ignore it. But for these guys, it probably 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.640 was an interesting phenomenon. Yeah, it probably, I think, Um, 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:20.640 you know, one of the things that a lot of 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.800 people just assume is like, hey, okay, somebody's messing up. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.080 Something messed up. You know, the way that that file 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:32.040 got transferred to my server is scrambled, so whoops. Well, 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.120 but then when they started talking, they were like, no, no, no, 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.320 these things are shown up everywhere, and so they were 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.560 a little intrigued, but they didn't really get very far 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:43.360 and the story just kidding not quiet. Ten years later 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.000 and ten years ago from from when we're recording now. 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.400 So even longer the Internet was had matured somewhat, it 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.560 had become the Internet. Let's be honest, the internet has 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.240 never you know, it's interesting. I can't remember the guy's name. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.720 It was like an academic type guy, and he was 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.240 talking about the future of this internet thing, you know, 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:06.840 that was going to come up with all these people 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.680 or whatever his name is, I can't remember, but he 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:11.320 was talking about what it's gonna be like. It's like 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.120 to be all these all these these people that will 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:18.920 be online, and because everybody has shares the same interests, 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.640 and because everybody wants to be there, it will be 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.800 a very positive community. And I know who you're talking about, 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:31.840 and you can't read it without laughing. Yea wrong, h yeah, 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.080 sorry dude, that one didn't come true. So ten years 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.440 later and ten years ago, oh yeah, our forefathers. Yeah, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.920 websites like you know cracked. Cracked was pretty popular about 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.320 ten years ago. They're still pretty popular, but they were 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.840 really popular then, uh started the trend of the list 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.480 based articles. One of the most popular type was like, hey, 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.480 five Wikipedia articles to give you the creeps, which he 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.240 got this new thing number Three's amazing. They weren't titling 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.560 them like that, which was great. I missed those days. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.120 I hate those miss those days. Those articles still come 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.240 up when talking about the number three will amaze you. Yeah, 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:16.240 I miss the days when we didn't. Yeah yeah, crack 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.840 does not do that. I want to say it. Everybody 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.080 else does that, you know what? Okay, so can I can? 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.200 I just make a complaint real quick about the internet. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.160 But I don't understand. It's just one thing, just one thing. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.000 This is just the only thing I'm gonna complain about 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.160 at the moment is that I will see an article 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.280 and I was think, okay, I'll look at it. I 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.440 know it's clickbait, and the thing that they are putting 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:41.320 in the very beginning to entice you to click is 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:46.120 never actually in the list. Oh yeah no. And I 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:47.760 was looking at one of those just yesterday. It was 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.960 like it was like eleven NFL players and they're fantastic 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.120 stupid mansions. Yes, And it had this this aerial photo, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.960 this incredible mansion that's surrounded by a man made lake 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.600 with these man made islands and it and it was 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:04.399 not in the article. So it's not dumb. It's annoying. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:10.280 Rain in Oh yeah, sorry, that creepy Wikipedia articles, you know, 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:15.680 the articles about creepy Wikipedia articles included one of them. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.199 I don't and I wasn't able to find the original one, 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:25.159 but it included the Wikipedia page of Marcovian Parallax denigrade. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.280 When you say you couldn't find the cracked list, I 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.480 couldn't find whatever the list that it was on it 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.159 was featured on. I'm sure it was featured on a 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:39.240 number of them. The Wikipedia page for MPD was deleted 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:44.639 because there were quote no sources. Furthermore, Wikipedia states that 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.960 the mere existence of this spam doesn't really mean that 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.560 there should be a Wikipedia article on it, which I 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:55.520 guess is fair. I'm sorry. I looked at the Wikipedia 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.080 page it was. It was pretty bad. I've seen worse, though, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.600 and there's still around. So those are usually self curated pages. 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.280 The ones that are worse than this are the ones. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.040 I'm an actor and I'm going to write all about 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:12.840 myself in the third person. Yeah. Uh So this Wikipedia 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.320 article was, as far as I can tell in the 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.840 way back machine, was created on September four, and then 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.640 it was deleted finally on May tenth, two thousand nine, 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:28.680 from Wikipedia. I guess remember that date it's very vaguely important. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:32.240 Maybe could be important, could be interesting in one of 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:36.000 our theories. All right, and it won't surprise you that 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.480 seven chan got ahold of this tidpit and decided to 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.320 start digging. You're gonna tell us about seven chan and 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.240 four chan, and yeah, we're just going to take a 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.200 quick little detour on our tour of the internet. Seven 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.080 chan is kind of related to four chan. The chans 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.080 quote unquote, there are many started out as two chan 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.680 dot net, which was an image board based out of 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.920 jap and uh, four chan was the Western version of 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:07.399 Japan's two chan. Yeah, I did not know that. And 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.840 then and then seven chan is kind of seven chan 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:14.560 is kind of the rival of four chan. They have 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.920 like civil wars back and forth, blah blah blah. Um 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.840 it's a prime number. I don't know. They both exist 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.880 on this kind of limbo area between the Internet as 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.199 like fear the government and stuff and just use our 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.840 normal browsing and every once in a while incognito mode. 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.639 Um where we exist on the Internet and where the 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:43.120 deep web is dark web deep webs. Between the dark 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.440 and the deep there's a there's a difference. Yes, So 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.400 the chance kind of exist in this middle ground where 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.800 you a lot of the content, especially if you're browsing, 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.200 you don't necessarily want to just go do you. Definitely 0:19:58.240 --> 0:19:59.959 don't do it on at work, although I will tell 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.159 that my place of work, I didn't know I was 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.080 clicking on a link that was taking me to seven chan. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:09.760 Check your links, guys. Um, but I was allowed to 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.600 get onto this board in the media. Was like no, no, no, no, no, right, 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.840 but there's a firewall at work that won't allow me 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.040 to go on to college humor. It doesn't exist for 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:24.480 seven apparently, Yeah, the same stupid yea yeah. Um. I 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.760 think they just assumed, like, well, nobody would be so 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:29.760 dumb to go on the four chan and seventh chan. 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.680 They yeah, but but just don't I mean don't probably 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:35.960 don't do it at work, I mean, you know whatever. 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.240 Basically seven chan is like pretty lax on the law 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:45.000 following it's it's all anonymous based, um, and they anything 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.520 goes as far as posting it was just like run 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:51.960 by the FBI or something probably yeah. Yeah. Also, in 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.080 the interest of protecting the show, just real quick, I 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.280 will say that I have no side in the four 0:20:56.400 --> 0:21:00.680 chan and seven chan war, so please just ignore gass. True. No, 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:02.720 I actually I've heard of you guys, but I really 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.040 don't care one way or the other. So yeah, cool, 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:06.760 and I wish you both well, and I'm sure you're 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:11.040 both both sides are right. Some blogs that I think 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.960 saw this stuff on seven chan started to do research, 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.159 none of which I can find actual links too, but 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.359 I can't follow dead links too, So I don't think 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.480 these blogs exist anymore, which is fine. It's been ten years. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.239 I don't expect them to. I think they started doing 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.680 research in late two thousand eight. Then in spring of 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:31.800 two thousand nine, one of the bloggers was able to 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:37.000 find um one remaining post spam post thanks to Google, 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.560 because Google has actually retained public archives of a lot 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.720 of Usenet stuff. So there was only one surviving piece 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.200 of this copy of the spam on the interwebs, and 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.320 the one that we read that was it. Yeah, there 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.720 were a couple that they found that weren't that didn't 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.080 have the subject line, that just had one word maybe interspersed. 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.400 But of the this specific one, there's only the one 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.080 that exists down. We've retained one copy of this spam 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:09.919 message and one copy of the small box. Well, it's important. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:11.960 I'd like to preserve this for I don't know if 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.159 there's one yet, but there should be a museum of 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.760 spam on the Internet. I agree, Yeah, totally out of 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:18.640 b and there will be if there's some one already. 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:23.320 Wow okay, yeah, um, but actually that's a good idea. 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.520 Like so, Google does have a public archive of like 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:29.119 you snet stuff. It's pretty interesting. Actually, you can actually 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:31.000 get a bit of a sense of what it was 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:36.200 like a little bit the message was from again, because 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.159 they had to have the email address associated with this 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:44.240 from Susan Lindauer at w O r F dot u 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:51.160 WSP dot e DU who's like display name was Chris Brokerage. Actually, 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:55.440 but that's interesting. It seems that within maybe a week 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.760 of the discovery of this email address being connected to 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:03.400 that original spam post, the Wikipedia page was taken down. 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.879 This this bit of spam from this email address. This 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.800 is from August. It's from that August fifth state that 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.360 they all had the big batch happened. Okay. The action 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:20.760 of deleting this Wikipedia page was kind of swift. I mean, 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:24.680 they do have this action in the Wikipedia process that's 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:27.240 called swift deletion, and it's for things that are really 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.520 really offensive or awful, and that usually they usually get 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:34.479 within twenty four hours they'll delete those, but this one 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.840 they didn't do that, but they did within a week. 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:39.719 It was actually a pretty swift for Wikipedia, because I mean, 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:43.480 I've watched them, and I've watched or looked at some 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.760 of the logs of the various debates this or not yea, 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:48.959 sometimes the debate can go on for a while, yea. 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.960 So the way that this one, the way that this 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.359 one happened is two Wikipedia users suggested that the article 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.200 be deleted less than within less than twenty four hours 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.160 of each other, and then less than a week after 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:04.159 that it was permanently deleted. So somebody who new Susan 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.439