Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought you by a severed head,
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Speaker 1: the code. Sideways. Thinking says I don't know stories of things.
Speaker 1: We simply don't know the answer too. Hey guys, welcome
Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am
Speaker 1: Devin joined most weeks by and Steve. We're going to
Speaker 1: talk about a mystery tonight. We are, Yeah, not surprising. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure actually this was a listener suggestion
Speaker 1: at one point, but I can't find it on the
Speaker 1: list So if it was I'm really sorry, mysterious listener
Speaker 1: for not being able to find you. But if it wasn't,
Speaker 1: yeah take it, yeah on the list. You probably can't
Speaker 1: find it because it's misspelled. Probably that's what I was
Speaker 1: wondering about, because I want looking for it too, and
Speaker 1: I tried some different spellings. Couldn't you Oh sorry, whoever
Speaker 1: you were, we probably would have misspelled your name anyway, yeah,
Speaker 1: or mispronounced it that too. So this week we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about this thing called the Marcovian parallax denigrade,
Speaker 1: which you know, I think we'll probably call the mp
Speaker 1: D works at that point mp D. Realistically, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say it too many times because it's just
Speaker 1: a mouthful guy is uh. Yeah, I've been pondering the
Speaker 1: meaning of it all. Yeah. So the quick there's a
Speaker 1: quick overview here kind of and that is that we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the Internet or the pre Internet.
Speaker 1: We're really just like pre internet spam. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like there's a very good yeah, Pretmordal spam.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how quickly somebody thought about spam and average Yeah,
Speaker 1: that didn't even exist and it came up with it already. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm I don't think there's actually a really good short,
Speaker 1: you know, cliff notes of this. So do you guys
Speaker 1: want to just jump right in? That's probably the best way. Okay, cool.
Speaker 1: I will say that there's somebody in the middle of it,
Speaker 1: but we'll talk about that later. And this is often
Speaker 1: called one of the very first Internet mysteries, which means
Speaker 1: that I've finally done it. You found the very first
Speaker 1: found the first Internet mystery. That's so early the Internet
Speaker 1: didn't really quite exist. It wasn't really the Internet. Yeah. Actually,
Speaker 1: so we are going to talk about this thing that's
Speaker 1: pre Internet. It's called u senet. That's how you say, right,
Speaker 1: is it usenet or use net? That is a good question.
Speaker 1: I've I've wondered about this for years. It was because
Speaker 1: use as it if it started with an age almost
Speaker 1: use or is it? Yeah? I think it's using that
Speaker 1: just because that's easier to pronounce. Yeah, So it was
Speaker 1: used that was usc was at a an acronymic for
Speaker 1: university something or another? Or was it just use as
Speaker 1: in use We're going to use this net? Or did
Speaker 1: it have a use? Another mystery also useless net. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where your wife goes down. I think maybe it
Speaker 1: was the user network you snet with my guests, but
Speaker 1: I don't Please don't quote me on that, And if
Speaker 1: somebody knows, please don't like make fun of me for
Speaker 1: not knowing, because I'm sorry. I never saw call that
Speaker 1: really said. That's why I was curious. Yeah, this use
Speaker 1: net or us net was created in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 1: though it didn't really it was. It was like conceptualized
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine and then became publicly quote unquote
Speaker 1: publicly available in nineteen eighty. As with the real Internet,
Speaker 1: usenet was made for universities. The University of North Carolina
Speaker 1: and Duke University were the first early adopters of this system.
Speaker 1: And just for those of you who don't know, the
Speaker 1: Worldwide Web, which is the Internet, is a weird thing.
Speaker 1: I don't think people conte of the Internet a lot,
Speaker 1: but the like, there are parts of the Internet that
Speaker 1: we don't know exists. There's like quantum Web and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. It's really fascinating. If you're interested in you
Speaker 1: should go read on it. But the world Wide Web
Speaker 1: is something that's slightly different from the Internet even but
Speaker 1: the Worldwide Web took shape in nineteen UM and that
Speaker 1: was like the first direct I P connection between Europe
Speaker 1: and North America. That's when that first I P connection
Speaker 1: was established. Was an eight eight, So use not it
Speaker 1: is about eight years ahead of its time. And granted
Speaker 1: there there were some other kind of proto Internet network
Speaker 1: situations before then, dating back to I think the fifties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in nineteen I think military or just like on site
Speaker 1: local networks that were all connected to each other. And
Speaker 1: then yeah, even before the Internet, there was stuff like
Speaker 1: just you call bbs as if you had a modems
Speaker 1: remember modums? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember thinking, man, how
Speaker 1: could they get any faster? Oh yeah, no, I had
Speaker 1: that three hundred bod motive and I would dial with
Speaker 1: these bbs as and stuff, and I'm watching the characters
Speaker 1: across the screen. And then I upgraded. Oh wow, it
Speaker 1: was so cool. Yeah. I remember the pain of trying
Speaker 1: to watch an image appear. Yeah, like it wasn't even
Speaker 1: you know, I was young enough, it wasn't even it
Speaker 1: was anything dirty. I'm on National Geographic looking at giraffes
Speaker 1: Man and Carter Gotta take forever. Yeah. For the layman,
Speaker 1: we can say that you snet was just like a
Speaker 1: mail server. It was part mail server, part file transfer,
Speaker 1: and part kind of announcement board that'd be similar to
Speaker 1: an early forum situation, kind of like Reddit or like
Speaker 1: the bulletin board for that way. They were kind of
Speaker 1: like forums also. So my real quick question because of
Speaker 1: course now you can't see images of this stuff very easily.
Speaker 1: But most of what I understand is it was purely
Speaker 1: character driven. It was text driven. It wasn't like today
Speaker 1: where there's words and picture. Yeah, there's no, it's just works.
Speaker 1: I think they're Sometimes they had like you know, a
Speaker 1: bumper um maybe maybe a border around something, but I
Speaker 1: don't even think that. I think it was like asky
Speaker 1: imagery was imagery. Yeah, it was totally just text based, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just I was pretty sure that, but I wanted
Speaker 1: to double check. Just being as old as it was,
Speaker 1: that's pretty sure that couldn't be supported. He probably could
Speaker 1: use like FTP do since images not huge high res ones,
Speaker 1: but but that would have been that wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: on the announcement bulletin board sort of situation. That would
Speaker 1: have had to have been filed trans something you got
Speaker 1: to explicitly say. I want to transfer this to my
Speaker 1: own ready Are you ready? Are you ready for this
Speaker 1: incoming thing? Because it's going to take up all your
Speaker 1: right out. Actually it was probably faster at that point
Speaker 1: just to put it on the three and a half
Speaker 1: inch floppy drive and mail it too, printed out line
Speaker 1: by line. It's hard. It's sorry for our listeners, who
Speaker 1: are all young whipper snappers to appreciate this. Yeah, becaun
Speaker 1: use is I know that a number of our listeners
Speaker 1: are not so many of them will remember stuff like that.
Speaker 1: All right, so old people, should we get back to
Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, yeah, Oh no. I was doing a
Speaker 1: little searching for the for information on this one and
Speaker 1: on our pannet well on the Markovian denigrade in general,
Speaker 1: and and I came across this paper. It was an
Speaker 1: academic paper. Uh. They were talking about the relationship between
Speaker 1: usenet and the DARPA DARPA neet. And because in those
Speaker 1: days using it was always trying to interface and interact
Speaker 1: with darpaennet and darpnet was or arpanet. I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: I would be. I guess it would be our pay Okay,
Speaker 1: so the ARPA they would be trying to get into
Speaker 1: our pen and and and and arponnet was very very exclusive,
Speaker 1: very choosy for obvious security reasons. About the arpanet, for
Speaker 1: those who are unaware, is a packet switching network that
Speaker 1: was It was for the military, basically the advanced research projects. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and so uh this paper was it was hilarious
Speaker 1: because it was all about the relationship between the two
Speaker 1: and how it was an example of like sort of
Speaker 1: gender bias because to them, the authors of this paper,
Speaker 1: who were obviously somewhere from like, you know, the the
Speaker 1: fever swamps of academia, ARPA represented like the masculine, and
Speaker 1: he was using at the feminine trying to get access
Speaker 1: and he was going ah no, and and just being
Speaker 1: mean for the And this is this is somebody who
Speaker 1: in one of our universities writing a huge freaking research
Speaker 1: paper on this issue of ARPA being mean and kind
Speaker 1: of like masculine. So it's not a new issue. Kids
Speaker 1: have always been always been here. Yeah yeah. So and
Speaker 1: you know, where there is electronic mail, there is spam naturally,
Speaker 1: of course, and you set had a mail system and
Speaker 1: a forum system, which we're kind of it's my understanding
Speaker 1: that the way that replies worked is it was kind
Speaker 1: of like emailing to the board almost because it was
Speaker 1: your user name was your email address. Basically, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you could like email somebody specifically back or
Speaker 1: if it just got posted publicly to the board. It did,
Speaker 1: but I think it was like through the email. It's
Speaker 1: hard to really gradually how it works. Yeah, but what
Speaker 1: was really nice about the system is there were no
Speaker 1: links that you could click on. Yeah, so that's a
Speaker 1: really great thing. It's like, hey, your password is all
Speaker 1: messed up, click on this link and give us your password,
Speaker 1: will fix everything that None of that exactly. So in
Speaker 1: uh usenet developed a unique spam issue, and it was
Speaker 1: spam on its news feeds in the comments section, mostly
Speaker 1: comment words, but also on boards. News feeds were servers specific.
Speaker 1: So the way that use networked is that each each
Speaker 1: like little community, had its own server, but the servers
Speaker 1: talked to each other. So you would get if somebody
Speaker 1: posted something on like the Everybody news bulletin, you could
Speaker 1: specify that that news bulletin would be shared on all
Speaker 1: of the servers. They would communicate and yeah, kind of
Speaker 1: infect each other almost, which is kind of what happened
Speaker 1: with this. Well, these I guess the posts were subjected
Speaker 1: Marcovian parallax denigrade post. Yeah, the spam posts and the
Speaker 1: text of these spam messages were all different. They were
Speaker 1: there reportedly hundreds, like within just on one day on
Speaker 1: August five. Yeah, that this happened. Um, most of them
Speaker 1: were subjected um Marcovian parallax denigrade, but some of them
Speaker 1: just had those words in them that people kind of
Speaker 1: attribute those two maybe being part of this as well,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to tell. And the messages looked sounded
Speaker 1: something like this, I'm going to have one. They are
Speaker 1: real words random, Um, so I'm gonna have one of
Speaker 1: you guys read this thing. Okay, Okay, we got a
Speaker 1: Rochambeau for this, alright, I get it. Okay, go for it. JENNERB. McKinley,
Speaker 1: A Break, Newtonian infer Ca, Update, Co and Air Collaborate, Ruse, Sportswriting, Rococo, Invocate, Tassel,
Speaker 1: shad Flower, Debbie Sterling, Pathogenesis, es Gutar, Adventitious, Novo I
Speaker 1: T T Most Chairperson, D White, Hurtzag Differ, Pinpoint, Dunc, McKinley, Pendent, Firelight, Uranus,
Speaker 1: episodic medicine, Diddy, crag flogging, very Act, Brotherhood, Web Impromptu file, countenance, Inheritance, cohesion, refrigerate, morphine,
Speaker 1: napkin in late Gennaro namable yearbook hark. Okay, first off,
Speaker 1: you miss pronounced rococo. Of all the things I miss pronouncing, there,
Speaker 1: that's the one you go for. Okay, that really bothered me. Now,
Speaker 1: listeners you listen to this podcast, please please take a
Speaker 1: time go back thirty seconds and listen to it again.
Speaker 1: Listen to it like five times in a row. Actually, please,
Speaker 1: somebody make that your ringtoe. Yeah, you are going to
Speaker 1: confuse yeah for real. So you, like us, probably immediately
Speaker 1: assumed that this is a code of some kind. Um,
Speaker 1: try to grab it. Let me put this on the
Speaker 1: back burner. I gave it about ten seconds that I
Speaker 1: decided that it's not worth it. They gave it more
Speaker 1: than that. But let's put it on the But let's
Speaker 1: put it on the back burner and we'll talk about
Speaker 1: it in theories. Okay. The users of you Senet, predictably
Speaker 1: were the same type of people who are users of
Speaker 1: like Reddit these days, and predictably, when there were hundreds
Speaker 1: of these gibberish messages spamming the daylights out of them.
Speaker 1: They decided to take action and launch a full armchair investigation.
Speaker 1: I mean they lost their minds. Yeah, I think they did.
Speaker 1: They a lot of them did, and just like the
Speaker 1: users have read it, they lost interest, like within two days.
Speaker 1: This is not the sort of thing that really grips
Speaker 1: you and holds you for a long time. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not just why we're doing an episode on it. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: I mean for these guys, really it was. You got
Speaker 1: to remember that this was like probably the first mass
Speaker 1: spamming out there, so we're totally used to it now
Speaker 1: we just ignore it. But for these guys, it probably
Speaker 1: was an interesting phenomenon. Yeah, it probably, I think, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that a lot of
Speaker 1: people just assume is like, hey, okay, somebody's messing up.
Speaker 1: Something messed up. You know, the way that that file
Speaker 1: got transferred to my server is scrambled, so whoops. Well,
Speaker 1: but then when they started talking, they were like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: these things are shown up everywhere, and so they were
Speaker 1: a little intrigued, but they didn't really get very far
Speaker 1: and the story just kidding not quiet. Ten years later
Speaker 1: and ten years ago from from when we're recording now.
Speaker 1: So even longer the Internet was had matured somewhat, it
Speaker 1: had become the Internet. Let's be honest, the internet has
Speaker 1: never you know, it's interesting. I can't remember the guy's name.
Speaker 1: It was like an academic type guy, and he was
Speaker 1: talking about the future of this internet thing, you know,
Speaker 1: that was going to come up with all these people
Speaker 1: or whatever his name is, I can't remember, but he
Speaker 1: was talking about what it's gonna be like. It's like
Speaker 1: to be all these all these these people that will
Speaker 1: be online, and because everybody has shares the same interests,
Speaker 1: and because everybody wants to be there, it will be
Speaker 1: a very positive community. And I know who you're talking about,
Speaker 1: and you can't read it without laughing. Yea wrong, h yeah,
Speaker 1: sorry dude, that one didn't come true. So ten years
Speaker 1: later and ten years ago, oh yeah, our forefathers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: websites like you know cracked. Cracked was pretty popular about
Speaker 1: ten years ago. They're still pretty popular, but they were
Speaker 1: really popular then, uh started the trend of the list
Speaker 1: based articles. One of the most popular type was like, hey,
Speaker 1: five Wikipedia articles to give you the creeps, which he
Speaker 1: got this new thing number Three's amazing. They weren't titling
Speaker 1: them like that, which was great. I missed those days.
Speaker 1: I hate those miss those days. Those articles still come
Speaker 1: up when talking about the number three will amaze you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I miss the days when we didn't. Yeah yeah, crack
Speaker 1: does not do that. I want to say it. Everybody
Speaker 1: else does that, you know what? Okay, so can I can?
Speaker 1: I just make a complaint real quick about the internet.
Speaker 1: But I don't understand. It's just one thing, just one thing.
Speaker 1: This is just the only thing I'm gonna complain about
Speaker 1: at the moment is that I will see an article
Speaker 1: and I was think, okay, I'll look at it. I
Speaker 1: know it's clickbait, and the thing that they are putting
Speaker 1: in the very beginning to entice you to click is
Speaker 1: never actually in the list. Oh yeah no. And I
Speaker 1: was looking at one of those just yesterday. It was
Speaker 1: like it was like eleven NFL players and they're fantastic
Speaker 1: stupid mansions. Yes, And it had this this aerial photo,
Speaker 1: this incredible mansion that's surrounded by a man made lake
Speaker 1: with these man made islands and it and it was
Speaker 1: not in the article. So it's not dumb. It's annoying.
Speaker 1: Rain in Oh yeah, sorry, that creepy Wikipedia articles, you know,
Speaker 1: the articles about creepy Wikipedia articles included one of them.
Speaker 1: I don't and I wasn't able to find the original one,
Speaker 1: but it included the Wikipedia page of Marcovian Parallax denigrade.
Speaker 1: When you say you couldn't find the cracked list, I
Speaker 1: couldn't find whatever the list that it was on it
Speaker 1: was featured on. I'm sure it was featured on a
Speaker 1: number of them. The Wikipedia page for MPD was deleted
Speaker 1: because there were quote no sources. Furthermore, Wikipedia states that
Speaker 1: the mere existence of this spam doesn't really mean that
Speaker 1: there should be a Wikipedia article on it, which I
Speaker 1: guess is fair. I'm sorry. I looked at the Wikipedia
Speaker 1: page it was. It was pretty bad. I've seen worse, though,
Speaker 1: and there's still around. So those are usually self curated pages.
Speaker 1: The ones that are worse than this are the ones.
Speaker 1: I'm an actor and I'm going to write all about
Speaker 1: myself in the third person. Yeah. Uh So this Wikipedia
Speaker 1: article was, as far as I can tell in the
Speaker 1: way back machine, was created on September four, and then
Speaker 1: it was deleted finally on May tenth, two thousand nine,
Speaker 1: from Wikipedia. I guess remember that date it's very vaguely important.
Speaker 1: Maybe could be important, could be interesting in one of
Speaker 1: our theories. All right, and it won't surprise you that
Speaker 1: seven chan got ahold of this tidpit and decided to
Speaker 1: start digging. You're gonna tell us about seven chan and
Speaker 1: four chan, and yeah, we're just going to take a
Speaker 1: quick little detour on our tour of the internet. Seven
Speaker 1: chan is kind of related to four chan. The chans
Speaker 1: quote unquote, there are many started out as two chan
Speaker 1: dot net, which was an image board based out of
Speaker 1: jap and uh, four chan was the Western version of
Speaker 1: Japan's two chan. Yeah, I did not know that. And
Speaker 1: then and then seven chan is kind of seven chan
Speaker 1: is kind of the rival of four chan. They have
Speaker 1: like civil wars back and forth, blah blah blah. Um
Speaker 1: it's a prime number. I don't know. They both exist
Speaker 1: on this kind of limbo area between the Internet as
Speaker 1: like fear the government and stuff and just use our
Speaker 1: normal browsing and every once in a while incognito mode.
Speaker 1: Um where we exist on the Internet and where the
Speaker 1: deep web is dark web deep webs. Between the dark
Speaker 1: and the deep there's a there's a difference. Yes, So
Speaker 1: the chance kind of exist in this middle ground where
Speaker 1: you a lot of the content, especially if you're browsing,
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily want to just go do you. Definitely
Speaker 1: don't do it on at work, although I will tell
Speaker 1: that my place of work, I didn't know I was
Speaker 1: clicking on a link that was taking me to seven chan.
Speaker 1: Check your links, guys. Um, but I was allowed to
Speaker 1: get onto this board in the media. Was like no, no, no, no, no, right,
Speaker 1: but there's a firewall at work that won't allow me
Speaker 1: to go on to college humor. It doesn't exist for
Speaker 1: seven apparently, Yeah, the same stupid yea yeah. Um. I
Speaker 1: think they just assumed, like, well, nobody would be so
Speaker 1: dumb to go on the four chan and seventh chan.
Speaker 1: They yeah, but but just don't I mean don't probably
Speaker 1: don't do it at work, I mean, you know whatever.
Speaker 1: Basically seven chan is like pretty lax on the law
Speaker 1: following it's it's all anonymous based, um, and they anything
Speaker 1: goes as far as posting it was just like run
Speaker 1: by the FBI or something probably yeah. Yeah. Also, in
Speaker 1: the interest of protecting the show, just real quick, I
Speaker 1: will say that I have no side in the four
Speaker 1: chan and seven chan war, so please just ignore gass. True. No,
Speaker 1: I actually I've heard of you guys, but I really
Speaker 1: don't care one way or the other. So yeah, cool,
Speaker 1: and I wish you both well, and I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: both both sides are right. Some blogs that I think
Speaker 1: saw this stuff on seven chan started to do research,
Speaker 1: none of which I can find actual links too, but
Speaker 1: I can't follow dead links too, So I don't think
Speaker 1: these blogs exist anymore, which is fine. It's been ten years.
Speaker 1: I don't expect them to. I think they started doing
Speaker 1: research in late two thousand eight. Then in spring of
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, one of the bloggers was able to
Speaker 1: find um one remaining post spam post thanks to Google,
Speaker 1: because Google has actually retained public archives of a lot
Speaker 1: of Usenet stuff. So there was only one surviving piece
Speaker 1: of this copy of the spam on the interwebs, and
Speaker 1: the one that we read that was it. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: were a couple that they found that weren't that didn't
Speaker 1: have the subject line, that just had one word maybe interspersed.
Speaker 1: But of the this specific one, there's only the one
Speaker 1: that exists down. We've retained one copy of this spam
Speaker 1: message and one copy of the small box. Well, it's important.
Speaker 1: I'd like to preserve this for I don't know if
Speaker 1: there's one yet, but there should be a museum of
Speaker 1: spam on the Internet. I agree, Yeah, totally out of
Speaker 1: b and there will be if there's some one already.
Speaker 1: Wow okay, yeah, um, but actually that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: Like so, Google does have a public archive of like
Speaker 1: you snet stuff. It's pretty interesting. Actually, you can actually
Speaker 1: get a bit of a sense of what it was
Speaker 1: like a little bit the message was from again, because
Speaker 1: they had to have the email address associated with this
Speaker 1: from Susan Lindauer at w O r F dot u
Speaker 1: WSP dot e DU who's like display name was Chris Brokerage. Actually,
Speaker 1: but that's interesting. It seems that within maybe a week
Speaker 1: of the discovery of this email address being connected to
Speaker 1: that original spam post, the Wikipedia page was taken down.
Speaker 1: This this bit of spam from this email address. This
Speaker 1: is from August. It's from that August fifth state that
Speaker 1: they all had the big batch happened. Okay. The action
Speaker 1: of deleting this Wikipedia page was kind of swift. I mean,
Speaker 1: they do have this action in the Wikipedia process that's
Speaker 1: called swift deletion, and it's for things that are really
Speaker 1: really offensive or awful, and that usually they usually get
Speaker 1: within twenty four hours they'll delete those, but this one
Speaker 1: they didn't do that, but they did within a week.
Speaker 1: It was actually a pretty swift for Wikipedia, because I mean,
Speaker 1: I've watched them, and I've watched or looked at some
Speaker 1: of the logs of the various debates this or not yea,
Speaker 1: sometimes the debate can go on for a while, yea.
Speaker 1: So the way that this one, the way that this
Speaker 1: one happened is two Wikipedia users suggested that the article
Speaker 1: be deleted less than within less than twenty four hours
Speaker 1: of each other, and then less than a week after
Speaker 1: that it was permanently deleted. So somebody who new Susan
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I don't know, and Joe kind of dropped
Speaker 1: a little bit of a bombshell. But some of you
Speaker 1: may be yelling at me right now because I've totally
Speaker 1: glossed over that email address. Okay, I'm gonna start right
Speaker 1: here with a caveat that says, this episode is not
Speaker 1: about nine eleven. This episode is not about eleven. This
Speaker 1: episode is not brought to you about an eleven. It's
Speaker 1: not about Truthers, it's not about anything like that. So
Speaker 1: don't send us emails about that stuff. We're just talking
Speaker 1: about this one person. Don't go. Yeah, actually, we do
Speaker 1: have an email address if you want to talk about eleven.
Speaker 1: It's called bouncing right back to you that comment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if you don't get through right away, keep trying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, you can reach us there for sure. Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: it'll get straight to us. Okay, but fine. The name
Speaker 1: Susan Lindower may be familiar to you in that she
Speaker 1: is an anti war activist and intense conspiracy theorist. Very much.
Speaker 1: She has also been a journalist, a US congressional staffer,
Speaker 1: and she is an author. Susan is the daughter of
Speaker 1: former Republican nominee for the governor of Alaska, and his
Speaker 1: name was also Susan. Um. She started out as a
Speaker 1: journalist and then worked as a congressional staffer for two
Speaker 1: Oregon reps. Actually Congressman Peter DeFazio ron Widen a senator
Speaker 1: now too, by the way, he has and he's great.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that then. Um. She she was
Speaker 1: the press secretary for two other Democrats in Congress until
Speaker 1: two thousand two. Yeah, something happened between two thousand one
Speaker 1: and two thousand two. I'm not sure, something about like
Speaker 1: a band sob in. Just after finishing up working for
Speaker 1: Senator what sorry it was congressman wide at that point,
Speaker 1: she started to socialize with some people, most notably Dr
Speaker 1: Richard Fuize that pounced, who is famous mostly for his patent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta say, you know, this guy has a wicked
Speaker 1: page and he is what truly a renaissance man, I
Speaker 1: would say, because he's a physician, also an inventor, and
Speaker 1: a very successful businessman and apparently a spy. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: somehow apparently connected to the U. S. Counterintelligence. Can I
Speaker 1: just say something about the whole renaissance man thing. He
Speaker 1: may actually just be very good at getting his name
Speaker 1: on patents. Show that I work at a place that
Speaker 1: files a lot of patents, and there are certain guys
Speaker 1: who you can tell get consulted on things all the
Speaker 1: time and therefore get their name on it, because there's
Speaker 1: no way with the work that I know that they do,
Speaker 1: that they could have that many freaking patents. In short,
Speaker 1: it might be renaissance man. It's maybe over stated a
Speaker 1: little bit, but all I want to say is this
Speaker 1: guy really impressive he's got an impressives and a lot
Speaker 1: of piles. I mean, really, wouldn't you say? Yeah? Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: for the reasons I'm not totally clear on Susan and
Speaker 1: Richards starting meeting on a weekly basis to discuss diplomatic
Speaker 1: ties and Richard's quote infiltration unquote of a network of
Speaker 1: Syrian terrorists. I've read that Susan referred to Richard as
Speaker 1: her quote contact in the CIA, unquote, and that someone
Speaker 1: when someone asked him if he was in fact in
Speaker 1: the CIA, he said that he could neither confirm or
Speaker 1: deny that, and he couldn't discuss it further. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: usually means that he's never been anywhere in this guy's case,
Speaker 1: not necessarily. So, so I'm just gonna go ahead and
Speaker 1: pause right here and say that I literally cannot tell
Speaker 1: what is truth and what is fiction when it comes
Speaker 1: to Susan. So I'm just gonna say I question. So
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say a all of it and let
Speaker 1: you be the boss of deciding what you believe in
Speaker 1: what you don't believe. Susan started to claim that she
Speaker 1: had been harassed after meeting with Libyan officials to tell
Speaker 1: them that she didn't think they were responsible for the
Speaker 1: flight one of three bombing in which was the lockerbe bombing. Yeah, big,
Speaker 1: big thing. Yeah, I'm shocked that suddenly she was getting
Speaker 1: harassed for telling people that she didn't think they were
Speaker 1: responsible for it. So, yeah, she was sure that the
Speaker 1: good Off he was framed for the whole thing. Yeah. Eventually,
Speaker 1: eventually good Off he did acknowledge responsibility for the whole thing.
Speaker 1: He did. Susan was sure that neither Libya nor Syria
Speaker 1: were blamed for that incident. In two thousand, when w
Speaker 1: was elected George George W. Bush, he selected Susan's second
Speaker 1: cousin as his chief of staff. Apparently she went a
Speaker 1: little crazy. The second cousin or Susan, Susan went a
Speaker 1: little crazy. The second cousin was a guy, and started
Speaker 1: leaving him. His name was card Um, started leaving him
Speaker 1: letters on his doorstep, basically offering to use her quote
Speaker 1: intelligent contacts unquote to negotiate a way out of the
Speaker 1: war in Iraq, which everybody saw coming at that point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like three years away. But okay, yeah, you
Speaker 1: may have guessed already because I kind of hinted that before.
Speaker 1: But Susan is indeed a nine eleven truth RM quote
Speaker 1: unquote true firm, and she's been very vocal. She claims,
Speaker 1: as others do, that she had knowledge of the attack
Speaker 1: prior to it happening, and she was ignored. I guess
Speaker 1: Richard for his part, Dr Richard H stopped talking to
Speaker 1: her after nine eleven, basically saying that her views on
Speaker 1: nine eleven were malicious. He also another quote that I
Speaker 1: heard from him was that her said her talk that
Speaker 1: had taken ace what was the word seditious? Bent? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So he did don't even want to be um speaking
Speaker 1: with her anymore. And then in two thousand four, she
Speaker 1: was arrested by the FBI for acting as an unregistered
Speaker 1: agent of a foreign government. So it seems like she
Speaker 1: was maybe talking to some of the people she said
Speaker 1: she was talking to, though it was probably not as
Speaker 1: in much of a government capacity as she said it was.
Speaker 1: And so she came back and actually said, no, I'm
Speaker 1: actually a CIA asset um and they're you know, throwing
Speaker 1: me under the bus to hide something about nine eleven.
Speaker 1: They knew, right, So she was held about a year
Speaker 1: UM and then she was declared unfit to stand trial
Speaker 1: because she had a lengthy delusional history, delusions of grandeur. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and um, apparently there were some meds that she could
Speaker 1: have taken to to make her fit, but she said, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not taking those pills. I'm not crazy. And the
Speaker 1: prosecution really loving to have her that administered forcibly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then finally in two thousand nine by basically the
Speaker 1: Fed decided, you know what, this is not worth our
Speaker 1: time and energy, so we're just gonna drop all the
Speaker 1: charges against her. It makes you wonder what doctor Richard
Speaker 1: Police was willing to spend so much time like hanging
Speaker 1: out with her. She was but you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. But I tell you all of
Speaker 1: this not because this episode is about nine eleven. But
Speaker 1: there was Susan Lindau with the email address, and there
Speaker 1: was So there are a couple of theories really too,
Speaker 1: two big theories. Three theories about the Marcovian parallax denigrade.
Speaker 1: But first let's take a break a break. Yeah, coimpee
Speaker 1: Opal has wants and needs. She wants your attention, she
Speaker 1: wants her food. She needs to destroy the squirrel that
Speaker 1: lives in the tree in front of her house. It
Speaker 1: would be fantastic if Opel could talk back to you. Though,
Speaker 1: When you sit on the couch together and you tell
Speaker 1: her about your day, she looked to you with that
Speaker 1: understanding face, But the closest she comes to giving you
Speaker 1: valuable feedback is rubbing her head against you. And maybe
Speaker 1: just talking to Opel isn't enough. Maybe it's time to
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Speaker 1: Opal's needs a pretty simple because she's a cat. Yours
Speaker 1: aren't because you're a human. And we're back talking about theories.
Speaker 1: Since we were just talking about old Susan. I don't
Speaker 1: think she'd like to be referred to as old. It
Speaker 1: was old old Susan. Oh yeah, she's still alive, yes,
Speaker 1: and she have a website, Yeah, she's yeah, and she's
Speaker 1: on a whole bunch of kicking and hosting talks and
Speaker 1: talking about and the truth and all that stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or at least her story. So the first theory we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about is Susan really was the CIA
Speaker 1: asset and she was posting coded messages on you snet
Speaker 1: as early as nineties six. Susan was apparently actually meeting
Speaker 1: with Middle Eastern diplomats. So that's what got her in trouble,
Speaker 1: is that this is actually like in her official capacity
Speaker 1: or just meeting with people. That's a good question, Joe
Speaker 1: her it was an official capacity as a back channel
Speaker 1: contact for the CIA, right, she will. If you watch
Speaker 1: her videos, which I really tried to watch, they're hard
Speaker 1: to get there, they're hard to get through. She repeats
Speaker 1: a lot of the same words over and over and over,
Speaker 1: as if the repetition of the word increases the truth
Speaker 1: of it. But she kept using the word back channel
Speaker 1: a lot, and that was how she was contacting. I
Speaker 1: think she tucked to not a run it was iraq
Speaker 1: um and apparently got some money for doing so. She
Speaker 1: did not denies that she got money, which is one
Speaker 1: of the things that lawn landed or and hot water,
Speaker 1: because it appears she did not fill out the proper
Speaker 1: I R S form, which I had the number of
Speaker 1: written down and I don't have any more. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I can't tell what's true
Speaker 1: and what's not when it comes to her. So, and
Speaker 1: the other thing that people point to is that the
Speaker 1: revelation of Susan's name being attached to that spam does
Speaker 1: seem to coincide with the apparent wiping and or totally
Speaker 1: discrediting of the Wikipedia page and anything online regarding it.
Speaker 1: So Susan. Maybe what was Susan doing in a what
Speaker 1: I want to know because that seems like that would
Speaker 1: be when the important thing went down. It would be
Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, she wasn't doing of
Speaker 1: anything of note at that point. Is that correct? And
Speaker 1: she was working for Karen Moseley Braun, Carol, sorry, Carol
Speaker 1: Moseley Braun, who was at the time of Senator for Illinois.
Speaker 1: That true, But the senator that she was working for
Speaker 1: didn't have any kind of nefarious CIA or black ops
Speaker 1: kind of seed counsel we knew about now. She she
Speaker 1: was actually a one termer and she was considered kind
Speaker 1: of a lightweight, and she wasn't really lett near anything
Speaker 1: too serious with you. She was in Senate from ninety
Speaker 1: three to ninety nine, which is one Senate term. They're
Speaker 1: six they're six year terms. Yeah, that's so sad. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: um so no, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Susan
Speaker 1: wasn't doing Okay, I don't know. She's been around the
Speaker 1: hill for a while, so okay, yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: two years that she's been talking to to miss Robert
Speaker 1: fueeze or freeze or however please the doctor. Yeah. So um.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Susan is kind of guano crazy,
Speaker 1: so a little bit. Yeah, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: trust that actually, and Carol Mosley Brown would have been
Speaker 1: a good fit. Actually, she's now ambassador of Samila. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the senator. Yeah, she was an ambassador to somewhere else
Speaker 1: before too, were not important. Yeah, like, yeah, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm really important if you're a sist, really important. So next, yeah,
Speaker 1: actually seriously, next theory? Go ahead, what's that Susan has
Speaker 1: nothing to do? This is a long theory title. I'm sorry, Uh,
Speaker 1: Susan has nothing to do with this, because Susan Lindauer
Speaker 1: isn't really that weird of a name. And also, there
Speaker 1: was one of those working at the university that that
Speaker 1: email address is registered to at the time. So, um,
Speaker 1: the website or the university that that spam was sent from.
Speaker 1: The email address where that was registered at was the
Speaker 1: University of Wisconsin Stevens points dot du. Yeah. And in
Speaker 1: the spring of there's articles talking about this program that
Speaker 1: one Susan Lindauer different rent Susan Lindauer was in charge
Speaker 1: of organizing. There's there's like proof in the you know,
Speaker 1: there's academic journals written about her studies that she was
Speaker 1: doing there, so we know that she was there at
Speaker 1: that time. That's where that web address is located. So
Speaker 1: it's not unreasonable to assume that it was just a
Speaker 1: hacked email address makes sense to me. Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with crazy crazy Susan Lindower. Just
Speaker 1: it was just a coincidence that it was the same
Speaker 1: name we use Susan's. Yeah, quite quite possible. But on
Speaker 1: the other as, she might be actually have a used
Speaker 1: net log on, but being somebody who was employed more
Speaker 1: in the physical education part of things, yeah, and not
Speaker 1: the more techie computer science and things, might not have
Speaker 1: actually used it at all or not used it much,
Speaker 1: and definitely was not tech savvy enough to not let
Speaker 1: her email address fall into the wrong hands. It's totally possible.
Speaker 1: I got to tell you I had a I had
Speaker 1: an email address at that time that was assigned to
Speaker 1: me from a university, and I would check it once
Speaker 1: every week or four at the library. Oh yeah, me too.
Speaker 1: Why I might have gotten this email address and never
Speaker 1: used it ever. Yeah, that happens a lot. Yeah obviously
Speaker 1: back in those days. Yeah yeah, yeah, And she was
Speaker 1: Just in case anybody's wondering about this, Susan, she worked
Speaker 1: on a program to um. It was basically children's physical
Speaker 1: education for children who were delayed for whatever reason, mentally
Speaker 1: delayed develop Yeah. Um. And then she's she was an
Speaker 1: assistant instructor in the snap program whatever. I don't know
Speaker 1: final theory. Yeah, do you guys know whom Mark V.
Speaker 1: Shane shanely is Shaney? I actually do, do you, Joe?
Speaker 1: Do you know who Mark V. Shaney is? Totally? I
Speaker 1: want to school with him. Uh. He was a user
Speaker 1: on the use net forum uh net nott singles. He
Speaker 1: was also the very first as far as I can tell,
Speaker 1: a I bought as far as as far as I know, um,
Speaker 1: and he was based on a what's called a Markov chain.
Speaker 1: Do you know what a Markov chain is? You know,
Speaker 1: I've heard of it, but you know, if you go
Speaker 1: out and read about the Markov chains, it's pretty esoteric stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I have a what I would call it very very
Speaker 1: sort of general understanding of what it is. Abstract, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's basically, it just generates random things. It's
Speaker 1: a formula for random things that people have written. And
Speaker 1: that's about it. Well, a Markov chain bought is that?
Speaker 1: But a Markov chain is like a mathematical of anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's my understanding of it. But it's almost
Speaker 1: like a chain of events. There's one way of looking
Speaker 1: at it, and yeah, and so the next event depends
Speaker 1: on the president event, but not the president event does
Speaker 1: not necessarily depend the relationship between past president future. There's
Speaker 1: not necessarily a change. So let me simplify this. There's
Speaker 1: a tree and there is a Kleenex, and one eventually
Speaker 1: turned into the other. What happens in the middle. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't really care. Yeah, kind of that, yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, ok, yeah, But the Markov chain bought
Speaker 1: is uh, yeah, it's a mathematical procedure that computers can
Speaker 1: use to create relatively realistic looking text with some great responses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: given based on some given data. So we've we've actually
Speaker 1: seen a lot of those. Um, that robot that was
Speaker 1: a Microsoft the Twitter thing that like turned into oh
Speaker 1: that one justly repens. Yeah, so she's a very advanced
Speaker 1: version of a Markov chain bought, very advanced. But it's
Speaker 1: so sad with the Internet. Yeah, it's really sad. It's
Speaker 1: to be the sacond. No. I don't think that robot
Speaker 1: exists anymore, but that's basically that sort of thing. Um
Speaker 1: and Mark Actually going back to Mark Mark V. Shaney, Um,
Speaker 1: he was actually pretty successful, but he was prone to
Speaker 1: saying things like I spent an interesting evening recently with
Speaker 1: a grain of salt. I mean, I've read some of
Speaker 1: the other stuff that he he said, and realistically, it
Speaker 1: could have I mean, it was early internet days. It
Speaker 1: could have just been like a really quirky, awkward dude
Speaker 1: on the other end, or maybe even somebody who like
Speaker 1: English wasn't their first language. But he was pretty convincing.
Speaker 1: M did you get a lot of dates? I know
Speaker 1: he was. He was on net dot singles, right, I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a story about people who thinking that
Speaker 1: Mark was real. We're at some gathering and was overheard
Speaker 1: by one of the people who had created Mark V.
Speaker 1: Shaney saying, I wonder if Mark V. Shaney is going
Speaker 1: to be here? People into it? Yeah, and we see
Speaker 1: these bots. I mean you see the screen captures of
Speaker 1: like Tinder bots for instance, Right, I mean that's this
Speaker 1: is the same sort of thing. But that was supposed
Speaker 1: to be the ones that never show up for their
Speaker 1: dates with me. Yeah, I know, it's kind of pain yeah,
Speaker 1: stuff giving me your credit card? Yeah, I mean, so
Speaker 1: you know we're talking Marcovian Parallax Denigrade, is it Dennigrade?
Speaker 1: Think it's yeah, great? Yeah, you're thinking that it was
Speaker 1: just something sent up by a bot. I kind of do. Actually,
Speaker 1: I mean, Markov is in the name already, right, and
Speaker 1: you know something being Marcovian is like a generate, random
Speaker 1: generated string of stuff. And I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: like that makes sense to me. That makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense to me, that it could just be this
Speaker 1: bot and it, you know, was named something tongue in
Speaker 1: cheek and it just kind of went off the rails
Speaker 1: a little bit. But that to me makes the most sense.
Speaker 1: I know, we've just spent the last almost hour talking
Speaker 1: about covert counterintelligence in the CIA, but I don't think so.
Speaker 1: But Steve had that look on his face. I tried
Speaker 1: to decode this, just like the rest of the Internet.
Speaker 1: How did that go for you? Quite boringly? Uh, and
Speaker 1: not very effectively because I looked at it and was
Speaker 1: figuring it was as a cipher where it's not. It's
Speaker 1: like a word switch. In other words, you put so
Speaker 1: in here there's Gennaro as in Rio de Janeiro, as
Speaker 1: in the city by the River, and so I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: well that must mean rivers. So they're plugging a word in.
Speaker 1: So it's a replacement. So I started playing with thinking
Speaker 1: about that too, like jitterbugging is a dance, McKinley and
Speaker 1: Eber presidents right right, you know, is physics. I did
Speaker 1: it for a while because I was curious, not that
Speaker 1: I expected to be the genius that cracked it after
Speaker 1: all this time him, but just to see if there
Speaker 1: was anything there. And it's just enough, it's just enough
Speaker 1: to pull you in. And I made the mistake of
Speaker 1: laying it out so that I could put three or
Speaker 1: four words under each one, you know, my guesses of
Speaker 1: what that word meant. And then very quickly I began
Speaker 1: to build a sentence, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I've got it. What I had gotten was confirmation bias.
Speaker 1: It's real interesting. I mean, you know, you can find
Speaker 1: meaning in words connected pretty easily. Yeah, And and so
Speaker 1: I see why people are so curious. What I am
Speaker 1: sad about is that only this one string of what
Speaker 1: is it six twelve eighteen twenty four thirties some words
Speaker 1: are remaining because I would like to see other instances
Speaker 1: of it, just to see how they're assembled, you know,
Speaker 1: because if it truly was a code, you can't break
Speaker 1: the code with just the cipher text. Yes, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't know what the encryption algorithm is. I mean,
Speaker 1: one of the things that occurred to me was that
Speaker 1: the number of letters in each one of these words
Speaker 1: could represent just a number, which is of course the
Speaker 1: number of a letter in the alphabet. But then we
Speaker 1: need to know the book it's tied to. Well, not necessarily, No,
Speaker 1: it could be a simple substitution cipher with numbers. But
Speaker 1: I just did a quick glance at and I realized,
Speaker 1: doing very very often back of the envelop character counting, uh,
Speaker 1: that it couldn't be that because it's well, yeah, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: you got a lot of real big words in there.
Speaker 1: There's a number of large words, very few small ones
Speaker 1: and anything like that. There's going to be a lot
Speaker 1: of representations of the letter E and then after that
Speaker 1: the letter A. So a lot of words of the
Speaker 1: same length, and you don't see very many of those
Speaker 1: in here. So Okay, that's out, and that's as much
Speaker 1: time as I wanted to spend on it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: there this could actually be a code, but I think
Speaker 1: it's something else entirely. What do you think it is?
Speaker 1: It's just a big fat chunk of text, and it
Speaker 1: could have been actually an attempt too. There's you can
Speaker 1: think of a couple of different possibilities here. Well, one
Speaker 1: of course, is it's just somebody wanting to annoy a
Speaker 1: lot of people by sending out this big fat chunk
Speaker 1: of text and tying things up. It could have been
Speaker 1: also an attempt to break the network, just let's see
Speaker 1: how much stress this network can take, like the way
Speaker 1: like webdriver torso, I mean, you know what that is, right,
Speaker 1: it's those videos that we're getting uploaded like insanely fast
Speaker 1: to YouTube. They were like six seconds and they were
Speaker 1: just like a tone and like blocks of Yeah. And
Speaker 1: it turned out that it was Google just testing how
Speaker 1: robust the system of YouTube is exactly. I mean, I
Speaker 1: kind of want thinking about this. It could have been
Speaker 1: a way to map the network and see, you we're
Speaker 1: just gonna go if I send this out, who how
Speaker 1: many people were exactly isn't gonna go. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of a mapping thing more like you say, a stress test.
Speaker 1: Could have been that, or it could have been a prankster.
Speaker 1: But and I never did bother to actually count the
Speaker 1: number of characters in here to see if it was
Speaker 1: precisely like two five. It looks like more than two
Speaker 1: fifty five actually, but you know exactly how you know,
Speaker 1: at the length of the actual text block means anything
Speaker 1: at all? I have no idea. Again, if I were
Speaker 1: less lazy, I would have counted the character the number
Speaker 1: of characters and found that out. Yeah, but I don't
Speaker 1: think it's worth it. And again the problem is with
Speaker 1: only one set of words you you're grasping of threats.
Speaker 1: Had two or three more that were of different set
Speaker 1: different words, then maybe you could try to draw some conclusions.
Speaker 1: But you're you're literally just in the dark pretty much,
Speaker 1: I mean, without without the decryption algorithm, if there even
Speaker 1: is one. I mean, this could be a really super
Speaker 1: deep one where the actual text itself means nothing whatsoever,
Speaker 1: but the code is actually and who it went to.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that Susan Lindauer the Lady has nothing
Speaker 1: to do with it. Definitely not. That is just the
Speaker 1: Internet loving a coincidence. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 1: as far as decoding this, I'm going to give it
Speaker 1: another ten seconds and that's about it. Yeah, there you go, done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. There might actually be an
Speaker 1: encrypted message in here somewhere. I'm too lazy to find it.
Speaker 1: I don't think there is. Yeah. Okay, wait a second,
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about aliens, you know, like, you know,
Speaker 1: just wrap this whole thing up without talking about aliens. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: what about him? I was going to wrap it up
Speaker 1: without talking about aliens. Okay, fine, fine, fine, all right,
Speaker 1: go ahead wrap it up then. Okay, Well, sorry to
Speaker 1: anybody who wanted this to be super exciting conspiracy episode.
Speaker 1: I think there could be something in there, but I
Speaker 1: just don't think it is. Yeah, I agree, it would
Speaker 1: be nice. Then there might be, but probably not, probably
Speaker 1: not yet. Well, there will be some links to our
Speaker 1: research um on the website. That website is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Uh. You can download and listen to
Speaker 1: us off iTunes if you're doing that, uh, you know, subscribe,
Speaker 1: leave a comment and rating. Uh. You can stream us
Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere, including Google Play. At this point, we
Speaker 1: are on social media. We've got a group and a
Speaker 1: page on Facebook. We've got a Twitter which is Thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways not Thinking Sideways, and we have a subreddit that's
Speaker 1: just called Thinking Sideways. If you have suggestions, comments, questions,
Speaker 1: anything like that, you can feel free to send us
Speaker 1: an email as well, that email addresses Thinking Sideways podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Or if you want to be
Speaker 1: super sneaky and talk about the bambo on the show,
Speaker 1: which I know you're talking about me and it's bim bed,
Speaker 1: you can send it there as well. Yeah. Yeah, keep
Speaker 1: trying yep through that, and then if you want to
Speaker 1: buy merchandise, you can do that on our website. We've
Speaker 1: got shirt, smugs, stickers, kind of anything you could possibly want.
Speaker 1: There's links to ours as ale in our red Bubble
Speaker 1: stores on the right hand side of the website. It's
Speaker 1: all high quality. Maybe I don't know. I hope it is.
Speaker 1: WE hope. Yeah, nobody's complained yet. Dishwasher safe I think.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think the stickers are. I
Speaker 1: don't think so either. Um, well, all of that having
Speaker 1: been said, I think we're going to go ahead and
Speaker 1: just get on out of here. Yeah, I jitterbugging obvious something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: damn it. You took away what I was gonna say. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use a bat channel. It's a bat chat
Speaker 1: back channel to the everybody. Hi food, Thinking Sideways is
Speaker 1: not brought to you by a severed head. Oh yes,
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