1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shonda 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: making of the Shonda Land series on Netflix. I'm your host, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Stacy Wilson Hunt, and today I'm happy to share a 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: particularly profound conversation I had with actor Alexis Floyd about 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: her role as Anna's rider die Nef Davis. We talked 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: about what it was like to have the real Nef 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: on set during production, as well as some of the 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: show moments that have come to me the most to 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: Alexis herself. Hi, Alexis, it's so nice to have you here. 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: Congratulations on the show. Thank you so much, such a privilege. 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: Really it's changed my life. Thank you. So before we 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: talk about Inventing Anna, I would actually love to know 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: more about what your life was like in New York 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: before the series, and I know there are some sort 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: of them attic mostovers between you and Nef, So tell 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: me a little bit about that. Yes, So, I was 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: actually working at a front desk myself for a yoga 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: studio in the Chelsea area of Manhattan. So I was 21 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: very familiar with that balance of you know, hi, how 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: are you above the desk? Joys here? And then below 23 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: the desk, you're texting your mom, you're putting out a fire, 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: you're trying to put a flight. Um. I like that 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: idea of like above the desk and below the desk, 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: like two worlds, right, two worlds, two worlds and and 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: one is sort of constructed to be a land of 28 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: endless possibilities and I can do anything for you and 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: it's no skin off my back. And then below the surface, 30 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: you know the storm that you're trying to quiet. I've 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: had those jobs too. It's it's not an easy thing 32 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: to do, not an easy thing to do. It takes 33 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: a lot of energy. And you know, that's part of 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: what I also connected with nef about is then you 35 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: want to have energy at the end of your day 36 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: to pour into your art, to focus on your dreams, 37 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: to be creative. And sometimes you've come home and the 38 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: most creating you can do is ordering pizza. Right. And 39 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: on the subject of dreams, what were your dreams? At 40 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: that point, I definitely was trying to make a transition 41 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: into the film and television world in a more sort 42 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: of sustainable place. I had the privilege of being on 43 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: the Bold type, which is a free form shows. Congrats 44 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: on that, thank you and it and it lit the 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: dream alive in a really vibrant way, um in terms 46 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: of knowing that I will always have a home in 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: theater and want to come home to it as often 48 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: as I can. And I just found a different sort 49 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: of engagement with film that I hadn't had a chance 50 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: to explore much in my life previous to the show. 51 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: I just loved the environment and the pace. I love 52 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: the intimacy of a camera. I loved the collaborative nature 53 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: of all of these departments problem solving together. And it 54 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: just felt so inherently kind of creative in this like immediate, 55 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: really buzzy way. And you're also a musician too, I am, yes, 56 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: trying to find a balance of all of that, sort 57 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: of like honing in my creative language and the avenues 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: that I want to use to speak. It was all 59 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: on my mind at the time that I was cleaning 60 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: mats and checking people into class. I have to say 61 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: I've always felt for anyone who has to clean those 62 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: yoga mouts after class. Oh it's not a joke, yes, 63 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: And the smells and you know, it's not their fault, 64 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: like that's me when I get out of class too, 65 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: But it's deep. That is so true. So take me 66 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: back to then when you first found out about inventing 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: Anna the series, and how you through your hat in 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: the ring to have a part in the show, specifically 69 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: to plain enough. Yes, So I received the script they 70 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: were looking at me for enough, and the first thing 71 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: I did was sort of just google the Annadelte universe 72 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: because I hadn't come across the article previously reading the script. Okay, 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: so you were kind of coming into this cold. I was, yes, 74 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: which isn't to my full surprise because I'm a little 75 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: bit of a social media recluse by the way, not 76 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: always a bad thing, I think, No, no, not always 77 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: healthy for me largely, so you know, And all you 78 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: have to do is type Anna du into Google and 79 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: it's delby Stork in New York. Like it just it 80 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: was endless upon impact, which was really exciting. And then 81 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: the first piece I really dove into was the main 82 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 1: source material of the piece, the cut article. And what's 83 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: really intriguing about that for me specifically as I'm trying to, 84 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: you know, start to wait into next waters is She's 85 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: kind of our narrator. She's our first eyes into the story. 86 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: She's the first person that we see in Anna's life 87 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: who is looking at her and taking in her energy. 88 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: She's kind of our primary source from the beginning. So 89 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,119 Speaker 1: that was really exciting for me, and that in reading 90 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: the script, Shanda celebrating that as well, that she's kind 91 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: of our home base. She's where we check back in 92 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: with ourselves and where we settle when there's a moment 93 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: that the glitter storm of the show, you know, starts 94 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: to subside, and we're New Yorkers ourselves, and we're in 95 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: that hustle and we have our own sort of ambitions 96 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: and like that centerpiece I think Nef was like largely 97 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 1: responsible for in this narrative. No, it's a great point 98 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: and this idea too, that we come back to what 99 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: the show is the the protagonist whom we can't trust, 100 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: right and Nef is the person actually in the space 101 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: who we trust first. I think so, and then you know, 102 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: as we learn more about Anna, we still find ourselves 103 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: able to come home to her and we know where 104 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: her loyalty is really grounded. So that was exciting. And 105 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: then I made the tape and uh, my friend who 106 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: I taped with was not enthusiastic about it, and I 107 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: was like, oh, enthusiastic about the project or your performance 108 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: in the tape. I think my performance if I'm being honest, 109 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: which you know, you never know, You just never know. 110 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: And I was going in for a lot of work 111 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: at the time, and who knows. Two weeks later, I 112 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: got a call from my managers and they said, Shonda 113 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: doesn't need to see anymore. She just wants to sit 114 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: down with you. She's never seen your work before and 115 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: hasn't had a chance to engage with you as an artist. 116 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: And so that's what we did. We got on Zoom. 117 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: We just got to know each other a little bit, 118 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: and it was really thrilling to have this kind of 119 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: dramaturgical character study discussion with Shonda and Betsy, who are 120 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: just two of the most brilliant women, really special, yes, 121 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: and the two of them have a really strong collaboration 122 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: and friendship. They've built so many of our greatest storytelling 123 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: worlds in television together. There are a power duo. A 124 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: power duo can do anything. We'll do everything and tell me. 125 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: From that first Zoom chat with Betsy and Shawna, What 126 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: did you most take away from the way they envisioned 127 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: the series and specifically envisioned enough. Well, they broke down 128 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: for me that they were going to have each episode 129 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: center on a different character in the Anna Delvy Marvel universe, 130 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: if you will, which I thought was brilliant because then 131 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: we're seeing all of these different perspectives from all sorts 132 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: of like New York culture points, who all found something intriguing, fascinating, scary, 133 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: you know, enticing about Anna Delvy, and it just helps 134 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: us build this momentous energy around this mysterious woman. I 135 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: just thought that was so intelligent, and with Nef specifically, 136 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember one of the first things Shawanda 137 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: said to me so simply was I love this woman. 138 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: And I could hear it in her voice, you know. 139 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: In the character description she describes her as Barack Obama 140 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: meets Beyonce. Wow, that's a tall order, Lexis, Oh, you're 141 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: telling me, but also an honor and I mean, what 142 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: an exciting space to take up. And it also again 143 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: it just spoke to this kind of like you can 144 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: trust this woman. This woman is a hard worker, She 145 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: studied of her own craft, she has her own things, 146 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: to say, and she wants to make a splash on 147 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: the scene just as much as Anna does, which was 148 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: exciting too. I knew I was going to be working 149 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: with an artist, never herself and someone who loves and 150 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: is passionate about her own voice storyteller, which is an 151 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: exciting place to come into this. Absolutely, And you did 152 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: have access to the real enough, And I'd love to 153 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: know at what point during this process you met her 154 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: and what were your impressions of her. Yes, it was 155 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: actually the first thing I did. I I reached out 156 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: to her on Instagram. She was immediately responsive and excited, 157 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: which you know, probably a huge exhale. And of course 158 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: I love that you first met the Instagram. That's very enough, right, 159 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: very Anna. Yes, that is like a huge territory where 160 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: it went down between the two of them. And Nef 161 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: has a beautiful Instagram herself, this film colors Instagram. She 162 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: does all this educational work and film theory as She's 163 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: just so impressive to me, um and that was clear 164 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: upon meeting her as well. We had dinner actually Adam 165 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: Moroccan restaurant in Brooklyn. We found out we lived twenty 166 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: minutes walking from each other. Just another you know point 167 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 1: of synergy, and she was so generous that first night. 168 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: We spent truly three and a half hours together and 169 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: she let me record a little bit just for the 170 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: two of us. But I was just really struck by 171 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: her energy. That Barack Beyonce intersection. It does live in her. 172 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: By the way, did she know about how Shonda had 173 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: described this character. She must have felt pretty good about 174 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: herself to hear it describe it. I brought it up 175 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: at dinner, and I know it felt good, and I 176 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: know it felt good. But also she's one of those 177 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: people who owns that. I think she really owns the 178 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: space she takes up. Her worth is so inherent in 179 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: her and it's something she's worked really hard to build 180 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: and keep and protect despite working, you know, in the 181 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: service industry while balancing her dreams. And I think that 182 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: she knows the artist that she is, She knows the 183 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: story she has to tell, and it keeps her strong. 184 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: So it was really beautiful to see this young woman 185 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: take up this space and be excited to share her 186 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: story with the world. And I feel like Shonda was 187 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: the woman to do it and have that trust special. Yeah, 188 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: and it's difficult with these true stories you know, you 189 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: don't want to rely on the real people for permission necessarily, 190 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: and much like Jessica experiences as a journalist, you don't 191 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: want to hurt people with telling this story. You want 192 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: them to feel comfortable with how someone like Shawna's going 193 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: to own it and then translate it for TV. It's true, 194 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: and you know, you know in in the hands of Shanda, 195 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: you're going to get a well rounded, very taken care 196 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: of character who experiences the entire spectrum of the human 197 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: condition and emotional space. So I had that as well, 198 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: knowing that the script was taking good care of her, 199 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: but I wanted to make sure I did my job too. 200 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: I love that seems like the perfect environment to tell 201 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: a good story, right, That's right Land. Okay, there's a 202 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: land for a reason. It's a magical place where good 203 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: stories are told. Okay, amen. So I would love to 204 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: know what version of Anna do we see through Enough 205 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: and what does that version ultimately reveal about Enough herself, Yes, 206 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: especially because Anna is pretty calculating in terms of which 207 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: Anna she's showing to whom. So what I think is 208 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: special about their relationship is I think Anna is artist 209 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Anna with nef and of course, the entrepreneurial energy is there, 210 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: But first and foremost, she's the Anna who loves wearing 211 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: black and knows exactly why. On an emotional level, you know, 212 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: she's the Anna who to any one park because she 213 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: loves the architecture, she loves the way the light comes in, 214 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: she loves the floor plan. She's seeing the dreams. She 215 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: can taste the food already, she's hearing the music. She 216 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: wants neft to maybe find the DJ for their opening night, 217 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: like she can dream with Nev and they both have 218 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: this kind of dream energy that they get to bubble 219 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: in and enjoy with one another, and it confirms that 220 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: this thing that is not yet real that people are 221 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: telling them might not ever be real, is real and 222 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: a part of them, and they can share the reality 223 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: of their dreams together. And I think that's sort of 224 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: like artists communal space that they share is unique in 225 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: their friendship. And that's beautifully said. And the word that 226 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: comes up for me a lot between them and their 227 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: rapports curation. I think they each have this love of curation, 228 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: whether it's a space, a look, music, experiential in the 229 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: sense when someone walks into the lobby of Nef's hotel. 230 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: Every need that person has wants to be met in 231 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: that moment, and I feel like Anna shares that It's 232 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: so true, and it's the extra step of, you know, 233 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: honoring what the space is asking them to do and 234 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: then making their own mark, you know, Like Nef has 235 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: to wear a uniform every day, but she chooses her pen, 236 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: she chooses her hair accessories. She maybe put on a 237 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: red lip, you know, maybe she does a press out, 238 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: maybe she lets her curls out. But these are all 239 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: decisions she makes to say, yes, I am here and 240 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: I'm a part of this experience, and I am very 241 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: good at my job. But there's also something about me 242 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: that is creative and that can curate this experience because 243 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: of the knowledge I have. And Anna used the power 244 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: of that same that display to move into rooms and 245 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: seem impressively young but also incredibly intelligent, and like that 246 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: was all done with this sort of visual communication that 247 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: they were both very experienced in. I have to say 248 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: I love the uniform. It's one of my favorite outfits 249 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: in the show. She looks so chic, Like Lin Paullo 250 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: can even make a uniform fly. The costume designer Lin 251 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: Pallo famously also did Scandal and How to get Away 252 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: with Murder and um, she just she speaks clothing like 253 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: it's Champagne. I can't explain it. She's just one of 254 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: a kind, their characters, unto themselves, all of her creations, 255 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: that's it. And they do so much of the work 256 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: for you. I mean, you put it on and and 257 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: I'm seventy five percent Neff already for the day, you know. 258 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: And what do you think Anna in those early days 259 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: picks up or learns from Neff because she seems so 260 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: intrigued by her, and not only as a friend, but 261 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: I think she almost is sort of like learning from 262 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: her from that first moment they meet. I think that's right. Well, 263 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: on a really practical level, you know, Neff is also 264 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: the person who was getting her on these exclusive lists. 265 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: She's truly handing Anna the keys to the kingdom of 266 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: New York. So Nef is doing a lot of educating 267 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: in terms of spaces, you know, because so much of 268 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: New York is kind of hidden away, Like there are 269 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: so many layers to the city, and you can think 270 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: you're walking through a barbershop and then you look in 271 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: the back and there's another door, and then you like 272 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: knock three times and a bouncer opens it and you 273 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: walk in and you're in like a Neon futuristic club. 274 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: So NEF knows the doors behind the doors, behind the 275 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: doors that you can't necessarily google, but you just have 276 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: to know from having been a veteran of the city. 277 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: And NEF is meaning Anna when she's been living here 278 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: about ten years and she's working, as she describes it, 279 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: in the people business, so she knows these cues, you know, 280 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: inside and out. At twelve George, if you're a guest 281 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: and we want to keep you happy, it's my job 282 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: to get you on the right data base. If you 283 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: want the right database, you'll receive every invite, you'll enter 284 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: every VP entrance, You'll always get a ticket, always get 285 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: a table. And I got Anna's name or some of 286 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: the most exclusive database. So Anna's learning a little bit 287 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: of the walk the posture, and she's really getting the 288 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: behind the scenes tour through NEF. And then in return 289 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: for that, not only she getting these tips, but she's saying, 290 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: come with me, Come be at this party with me. 291 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: You deserve to be here. I see it in your art, 292 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: I I see it in your spirit. They really saw 293 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: each other. It was It's a really intimate friendship that 294 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: they had. It's so true. And I love the idea 295 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: of the gatekeepers as the people with all the power. 296 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: We see that in Hollywood. You know, if you want 297 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: the dish, you have to be nice to assistance, right, 298 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: never be mean to the people who are the gatekeepers, 299 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: to the power players. And I think that something that 300 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: nef knew from day one, because she herself is that 301 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: person exactly. And and there's so much I think she 302 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: has so much pent up energy from having to like 303 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: stay cool, from the way that she was misjudged, misunderstood, 304 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: mistreated in the workspace, but also just in the space 305 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: of the city, in the space of this world and 306 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: being seen by Anna was hugely validating. And then the 307 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: fact that Anna said not just open the door for me, 308 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: but walk through it with me. It was life changing. Okay, 309 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: we're taking a short break, Stay tuned, Welcome back. Behind 310 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: the scenes of Inventing Anna An. Episode two, even though 311 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: it's early on in this series, is really sort of 312 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: a Gangbusters episode for all the characters. Beautifully written by 313 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: Matt Burne, and there's this incredible moment between neph and 314 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: Rachel that sort of stand off about visiting Anna in prison, 315 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: and Rachel, of course, is sort of like, hey, I'm 316 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: done with this drama. And you have that great speech 317 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: where you address this idea of the purchase of a 318 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: black woman. I mean, yet, she may have bought some 319 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: of my clothes, but you, I mean you let her 320 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: buy you. She watch your time, she watch your call 321 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: me again. So now come on, try me step up 322 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: here and discuss the purchase of this black woman. Because 323 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: I am that you ain't too correct your face. I 324 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: got chills just saying those words, and I know that, 325 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: and Matt said they came straight from Shonda, straight from 326 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: her brain. I would love for you to talk about 327 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: the meaningfulness of that scene, in particular to nef but 328 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: also the story at large. That moment was extraordinary right 329 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: upon impact just reading it on the page. There's another 330 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: moment I think that highlights the same thing, where um, 331 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: Rachel and Anna are getting their hair done and Neff 332 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: is along for the ride and Rachel was originally also 333 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: just along for the ride. But then Anna turns to 334 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: Rachel shows off her hair. Rachel's I wish I could 335 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: look like that, and Anna just looks at the woman 336 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: and says do her too, And suddenly Rachel hops into 337 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: Anna's chair thrown and has her hair done in the 338 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: same fashion as Anna. And there's just no chance that 339 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: in that salon Nef is going to be able to 340 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: be attended to or celebrate it in that way. Um, 341 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: why is that? Black women? For a long time, the 342 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: only chance that I was going to have to have 343 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: my hair done in a salon like that was if 344 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: I had it relaxed, if I had my curls, you know, 345 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: basically pressed out. Um, the way you walk into the 346 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: room already requires some kind of explanation if you want 347 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: to be seen or have a seat at the table, 348 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: you already are catching up. And Anna is dealing with 349 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: that on some levels. But I think Neff also has 350 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: a moment in episode five where she explains to Anna 351 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: that there's a different kind of swimming upstream that Nef 352 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: has had to do in her life. I will be 353 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: a director, then what are you waiting? Full It's not 354 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: that easy for normal people. Any money and rent not 355 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: thanks time. Bullshit this case you say, lap and a 356 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: partial to Apia black girl from d C. Don't have 357 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: a way, embarasue m not like you. Women like Anna 358 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: have a bit of a life raft and the current 359 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: is designed to pull them along, whereas for Nev it's 360 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: designed to keep her down and keep her drowning. And 361 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: the energy that that takes is extraordinary. And communicating that 362 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: in colorful language, I mean, Shaanna just has so many graceful, beautiful, funny, 363 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: heartbreaking ways of readdressing this idea of I am not 364 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: who you think I am when I walk into the 365 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: room and I have a story, the importance of being 366 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: an archaeologist when you are listening to the story of 367 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: others and asking questions and being curious about the depths 368 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: of human underneath the skin. Wow, that was beautifully said. 369 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: That was really a gorgeous way of interpreting the text. 370 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: Thank you, It's all in there. Shanda really does. And 371 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: some oftimes her language is just visual, the way that 372 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: Nef and Anna can be sitting at the same table 373 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: and you'll see that. You know, when Neff speaks, the 374 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: air drops out a little bit and the temperature cools, 375 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: and people are a little taken aback that she even spoke. 376 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: I assume that people met a thought Nef was Anna's assistant, 377 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: and why is she speaking out of turn. And there's 378 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: just so many ways that Shonda plays with this idea 379 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: and shares it with us. So optics are everything, and 380 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: I think and on her own way is trying to 381 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: destroy x dictations and certainly everything she does is about 382 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: I know, you think you know what you're looking at, 383 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: but you don't. And then yeah, it's that above the desk, 384 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: below the desk thing exactly. It reminds me of that 385 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: British show Upstairs Downstairs. It's the same idea of the 386 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: workers and the elite, that constant divide between the two. 387 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: And yet it's the workers who are creating the environment, 388 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: the people who make these luxurious experiences, I mean, those 389 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: are people who are then kept out of them. It's 390 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: a it's a pretty complex dynamic, it is, to say 391 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: the least. Another thing that is prevalent throughout the entire 392 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: show is boundaries and how each character struggles in his 393 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: or her own way, whether it's Todd, Rachel, etcetera, struggling 394 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: to set their own boundaries. With Anna, because she's someone 395 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: who clearly has no concept of them. She's constantly pushing, 396 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: she has no sense of how she's hurting people in 397 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: the moment and Nef herself certainly doesn't seem to have 398 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: a problem with this in her work life. She tells 399 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: her boss very curtly, I'm going on a break. If 400 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: you have an issue with this, not my problem. But 401 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: with Anna, we do see her being tested in this 402 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: way that she's questioning her own instincts. At what point 403 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: in the show do you think she starts to realize, oh, 404 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: I'm starting to have boundary problems with this person. I 405 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: think it begins at that dinner that they have. I 406 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: think that's the first time that Neff's hairs really stand up. 407 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: I don't like, I'm just going to a work in 408 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: card so I can close out this table. I want 409 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: to see our manager. I am the manager. Why don't 410 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: get what? No, no, no, no, it's here. I think 411 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: until then, she's not just seeing the cash. She's held 412 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: it in her hands, she's brought it home to her apartment. 413 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: She's seen the experiences, she's seen Anna carry herself in 414 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: these rooms, she's seen the paperwork. I mean, she is 415 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: behind the scenes looking at the evidence, cold hard in 416 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: front of her. But there is that moment where you 417 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: know suspicion is already bubbling in the hotel and then 418 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: Nef for the first time, feels the anxiety of moving 419 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: two hundred dollars from your saving account into your credit 420 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 1: card and watching it leave, you know, before you can 421 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: even blink. I mean, it's a it's a really disorienting feeling, 422 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: especially for someone like Nef that is so careful and 423 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: she has bills and student loans and she's not playing 424 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: with her money. So just feeling that and how sort 425 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: of out of body that experiences just starts to sort 426 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: of disorient her in general. And then Nef, in her 427 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: own way, kind of does her due diligence that some 428 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: of these banks didn't do, which was she went to 429 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: the records herself at her hotel and she looked and 430 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: saw that Anna had a six digit outstanding balance, and 431 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: that was enough for her. I think too, not necessarily 432 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: place a permanent judgment on her, but to make the 433 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: I think very intelligent decision to erect a boundary and 434 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: to ask for space. Be straight with me now being 435 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: so crazy and stopped right there. If you're a hustler, 436 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: that's cool to your hustle, but leave me to funk 437 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: out of it. I have rent to pay. I have 438 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: a real life ship that I have to deal with 439 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: I have plans and I will not go down with you. 440 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: Do you hear me? Handle your business? She has too 441 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: much on the line, and again she is swimming upstream. 442 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: There's not going to be a rescue raft if Nev 443 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: gets wrapped up in this. For her, especially for talking 444 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: about the authorities getting involved, I mean, she can't play 445 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: like that, right because again she doesn't have the advantage 446 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: that Anna has. That's right. I mean in a lot 447 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: of spaces, you know, Neff walks in and she's already 448 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: a criminal. We talked about this a lot, you know 449 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: in the community. It's when you feel like you are 450 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: born into a skin that is guilty upon arrival. You 451 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: moved through the world in a different way, and Conning 452 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: is not There's the opportunity is not there. Okay, everybody 453 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: will be right back right after these messages. Thanks for 454 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: sticking around. Now back to the interview. So I would 455 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: love to talk about episode five, which is called Checkout Time. 456 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: It's next episode. As you've said, each character has his 457 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: or her own episode, and there are a couple of 458 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: moments I'd love for you to walk us through. First. 459 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: One of my favorite moments is the interaction between Nef 460 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: and her boyfriend, who, bless his heart, he's maybe doesn't 461 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: say it in the smartest way, but he's telling her like, 462 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: this woman is scamming you, right, and it's funny you 463 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: see her bristle. You say that hilarious line, idiot, you're 464 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: from Santa Barbara, Like, what do you know about the hustle? Right? 465 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: Check yourself, check, check yourself. But I think in that moment, 466 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,719 Speaker 1: and none of us ever wants someone close to us 467 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: to tell us something about ourselves that were either in 468 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: denial about or just don't want to admit. So walk 469 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: me through that scene and to what degree was that 470 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: a turning point for her? Yeah? I think it's a 471 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: big deal. There's a stillness about that moment. You know. Previously, 472 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend are on the couch. They're kind 473 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: of joking about the fire festival mess. She's not even 474 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: really engaged because she's counting her money from Anna, and 475 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: so in contrast this scene, she has just given two 476 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: hundred dollars to Anna. She comes home and I think 477 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: he's waiting up for her in a stillness that is different. 478 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: There's a really different tone that they don't often share 479 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: with one another. I think of them as having a 480 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: pretty fast rapport. They're both pretty fast talking, and I 481 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: think that is striking to have someone really on the 482 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: inside with her who's been encouraging to an extent, but 483 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: like maybe she sort of brushed off his judgments before, 484 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: and this feels more almost like an intervention. Your fancy 485 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: friend stuck you with a dinner bill you can't afford, 486 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: and she got you so wrapped around her finger that 487 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: you vouched for this bitch to your boss and you 488 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: still don't have her credit card. You've been had, hoodwinked, bamboozled, boom. 489 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: You're supposed to be riding this trend to your film. 490 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: I don't see no film, and now you out a pocket. 491 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: Later in the episode, there's a moment when she's lying 492 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: in bed, she's up all night. The storm of confusion 493 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: and hurt is sort of buzzing around her, keeping her 494 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: from sleeping, and he confronts her again, and this time 495 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 1: it really is personal. It's about how Anna might be 496 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: an escape for enough to not have to do the 497 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: boots on the groundwork in terms of bringing her her 498 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: film into this reality. It's not like you're doing anything. 499 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: I finished my novel yesterday. You don't even ask. People 500 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: are making feature films on their phones now. Money is 501 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: not your problem. You don't think you can do it. Look, 502 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: and a chick might be crazy, but I agree with 503 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: her on one thing. You want something, you have to 504 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: do something about it. And it's excuse after excuse after 505 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: excuse of why she can't be the engineer of her 506 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: own art, why she can't be the captain of her 507 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: own ship. And I think that really throws her into 508 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: a space of reserve and just sort of like halt 509 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: that we don't see that much from this go go 510 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: go woman. And I think it's a huge confrontation with herself. 511 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: It's something I don't know that she was ready to hear, 512 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: but it rings true in that spooky scary way, you know, yeah, absolutely, 513 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: And you know none of us can blame MEF in 514 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: that moment for wanting this life preserver. At that annus 515 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: right out saying, Hey, you don't have to keep working 516 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: as hard as you've been working. It doesn't have to 517 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: be this hard. I'm gonna give you a little shortcut. 518 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna help you figure out ways to circumvent the system. 519 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: I mean, none of us could resist that, and it's 520 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: just too tempting. And when it's been years and years 521 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: of trying to get it done and you are exhausted 522 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: from again trying to maintain this balance of work and 523 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: life and relationship and your dream and it feels like 524 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: you are the only person who believes in you. This 525 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: was a once in a lifetime opportunity to have real 526 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: wind under her wings, So the potential of that suddenly 527 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: being not there anymore, on top of just the confrontation 528 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: she's having of why can't I do this? You can't 529 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: help the question yourself why it isn't working and what 530 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: is it about me? And that I think is also 531 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: in the design of the system, is to infuse you 532 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,239 Speaker 1: with self doubt so that you don't have the energy 533 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: to push through. And so many people do and their 534 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: heroes to me, and they're all over this country, this world, 535 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: but it is definitely not built for your success. Very true. 536 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: And I always come back to Mindy Kaleen's refraid of 537 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: why not me? Why not me? And it's funny I 538 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: heard that in my head all the time, and I 539 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: see that in this character too. She has to keep 540 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: tuning out the naysayers and just keep telling herself, why 541 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: not me? Why not me? In a lot of ways Anna, 542 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: even though Anna thinks she's helping, she really does throw 543 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: enough off her game in a lot of ways. It's true. 544 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: It's it's a bit distracting, you know, the glitz and 545 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: the glamour. It feels good. And I think Nef enjoys 546 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: being in the spaces because in some ways maybe she's 547 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: trying to soak up that validation, like Okay, I'm here. 548 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: I'm here, and not think so much about why or 549 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: how or for how long. But just if I can 550 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: just be in these races and I can like tell 551 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: my body that I belong in these spaces, and maybe 552 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: I can make it true that way. But it's true. 553 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: We start to see her sort of move from center 554 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: a bit where she once had that sense of worth 555 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: entirely from within herself, and she starts to sort of 556 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: spiral away from that center point when Anna comes along, 557 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 1: and then of course we have the great competition between 558 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: the two when she finally says out loud, I have 559 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: planned I will knock go down with you handle your business, 560 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: And it was almost like a parent child interaction, This 561 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: like discipline that she never wanted to have to exert 562 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: over her friend, and you really do see Anna one 563 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: of the very few moments where Anna seems to have 564 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: fear in her eyes. It's extraordinary, so well written, and 565 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: especially because I think it connects back to that other 566 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: moment in the episode where the two of them are 567 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: kind of lying in bed at three am and they're 568 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: kind of having this like girls Nights, Safe Space sleepover 569 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: dream athon. I'm really really drunk, I think, and it's 570 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: really sweet and just kind of born naturally out of 571 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: the end of the night energy. But they talk about family, 572 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: and it's one of the only times in the series 573 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: where you really hear Anna be vulnerable about her family 574 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: and what their wishes for her were and how that 575 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: impacted her to the point where she she slips and 576 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: she speaks about how she didn't grow up with money, 577 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: and next sort of gently questions and then she she 578 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: gets back on track. But I think that speaks so 579 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: much to the uniqueness of their connection and how they 580 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: were starting to feel like family to one another. They 581 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: really have a sisterhood by the time we get to 582 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: that place in the episode, So for your Sister, which 583 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: is how they are to me at this point in 584 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: the show to confront you and say you're not doing 585 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: it sis, and you're not bringing me with you. It's 586 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: time to grow up is extraordinary. I mean, Anna has 587 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: no family around her at this point, and so the 588 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: sister that she's now welcomed into her life has now 589 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: started to turn a cold shoulder pretty abruptly on her. 590 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: It's love, it's a loss of love. I think that 591 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: we see in her eyes as much as fear, and 592 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: we do feel empathy for Anna, even though she makes 593 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: it very difficult. She does, my goodness, and that testament 594 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: to Julia's performance and the writing. I'm just so thankful 595 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,959 Speaker 1: that this show treats her like a full human being, 596 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of narratives out there about whether 597 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: or not that's even true, if she's missing something, and 598 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: I think she's fully there, which just raises the stakes 599 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: and and makes us confront these dynamics within ourselves of 600 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: having to play pretend right. Very true, and it's interesting 601 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,439 Speaker 1: with all of this hurt and confusion. On next part, 602 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: there are two miles to moments toward the end of 603 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: the series where we still see this undying loyalty and 604 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: love for Anna. The first moment, which I love the 605 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: minute the articles in Times Square and she's looking up 606 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: and grabbing that guy. That's my girl, that's my girl. 607 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: She's still excited for Anna after everything Anna has put 608 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: her through. And then of course walk us through the 609 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: Trial Style Instagram account and how those two sort of 610 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: gushing moments for enough indicate this undying love for this 611 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: person who has caused her so much distress. Yes, I 612 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: mean I think that's family, you know, like when you've 613 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: been going through it a little bit and Christmas was rough, 614 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: but they get a new job, you know, after the 615 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: new year, and you throw a party, and it's that 616 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: unconditional love of of someone who really sees all of you, 617 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: and they really built that together in a short amount 618 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: of time. So that's what that Time Square moment was 619 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: all about from me, just like forget the past, girl, 620 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: get it. Like the way that they mirror each other 621 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: in some ways, seeing Anna's space up there is seeing 622 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: a part of herself up there, and there's something affirming 623 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 1: about that too. So then when it's Trial Style time, 624 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: it's complicated, but I think Nef gets the vision, she 625 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: gets the dream, and on a family level, she wants 626 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: to do anything to keep her sister out of prison. 627 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the place I was coming from 628 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: at that time. And they can have fun while they 629 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: do it, and they can celebrate themselves as artists while 630 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: they do it, and they can connect on this safe space. 631 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: And in some ways it's a little bit sad because 632 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: they're not really unpacking the hurt that they went through 633 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: together in the way nef felt fooled by someone that 634 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: she trusted. But they can meet on this level where 635 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: the two of them, you know, where their friendship first began, 636 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: which is, we love to tell our stories. We love 637 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: the visual medium for telling our stories. I can help 638 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: you do this, And then that's what they do. They 639 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: start to craft this narrative and they treat the court 640 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: scene like New York Fashion Week, and maybe that's also 641 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: helpful for Nev. I mean, I always was thinking about 642 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: what it would be like to be in these places 643 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: of government authority and discipline in the justice system, and 644 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, we we see that moment in episode two 645 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: where she's going to visit Anna, and I really it 646 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 1: felt like nightmarish to me, and I think being in 647 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: the court space is not that different. And so they 648 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: get to sort of reclaim the space and graffiti over 649 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: the walls. Metaphorically, this is like the Revenge of the 650 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: twenties something woman, Right, It's sort of like, Okay, New York, 651 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: you have your old court system, but we have Instagram 652 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: and we're gonna throw you off your game and we're 653 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 1: gonna make Anna the center of the circus. And it works. 654 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 1: I mean, we see that all over the place now. 655 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm a huge supporter of the Sunrise movement, and it's 656 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: it's young people saying Okay, you've had your chance, but 657 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: I want a future and I want it now, and 658 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid to change to the rules. You made 659 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: the rules, someone made them before you. This was this 660 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: has all been created and it can be recreated. And 661 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: I see the power in that. And the two of 662 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: them get to celebrate that and find a lot of 663 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 1: joy in this dark moment, kind of like infiltrate joy 664 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: into this dark moment, Like if we have to go 665 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: through this, we may as well have some fun, have 666 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: some fun, tell our stories and shake things up and 667 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: and say you cannot control me. You can put me 668 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,439 Speaker 1: in a cage, but you cannot control the song I sing. 669 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: And that's what they're doing. M I love that. And 670 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: the last question, how do you think Anna has changed 671 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: Nef's life and perception of herself for the duration? I 672 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: think Nef will be at least. I am really proud 673 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: of the decisions that she made and the ways that 674 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: she took care of herself and was sliding down the 675 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: slope but sort of got her footing again and was 676 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: able to keep a healthy distance but also support her friends. 677 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: I mean, that's an They're incredibly difficult balance. This person 678 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: has caused me a lot of pain, but they need 679 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: my help, and how can I take care of them 680 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: but first and foremost take care of myself. And I 681 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: really applaud Neff for her grace and doing so, and 682 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: how she continues to do so on top of just 683 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: the bravery of telling her story as truthfully as she did. 684 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: I mean, she really she shared her whole self with us. 685 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: I think the nephew see on screen is sort of 686 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: a marriage of our friendship the Nef I got to 687 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: meet the Nef on the page and parts of Shonda too, 688 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 1: And I think in general, it's it's a celebration of 689 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: moving with empathy through the world, but never putting your 690 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: own power in someone else's hands. Well, I can't think 691 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: of a better way to end this conversation than with that, 692 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 1: So thank you so much. Alexis. The show was so 693 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: lucky to have you play this part. Neff was so 694 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: lucky to have you play this version of her, and 695 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: I know wherever she is she has to be very 696 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: happy about this. So thank you so much for your 697 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: time and congratulations. Thank you, such a pleasure to talk 698 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: with you. Really, thank you, thank you, Thank you so 699 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: much for listening. Next week we'll have the pleasure of 700 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: dropping back in on Shonda Rhymes with the one and 701 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,399 Speaker 1: only Jessica Pressler. Jessica, of course, is the journalist who 702 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: wrote the New York magazine story that Shonda adapted into 703 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: inventing Anna. They're going to chat about their close collaboration 704 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: on the series. You're a little bit reluctant. When I 705 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: was like, maybe it's going to be like a big 706 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: part of the show. I remember you being like, Okay, 707 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,439 Speaker 1: that's yeah. I definitely was like, okay, Like you think 708 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: that now, but you're going to write her out of 709 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: it later, not so much. If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, 710 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: share with your friends, rate, and leave us a review. 711 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: All of that good stuff. And if you haven't finished 712 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: Shawnda Lance Inventing Anna on Netflix, please go do that. 713 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 1: We really don't want to spoil it for you. Inventing 714 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, 715 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and 716 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show is produced and 717 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing Anna the Official 718 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: Podcast is a production of Shondoland Audio in partnership with 719 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Schondeland Audio, visit 720 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 721 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.