Speaker 1: So Katie, as you're gnawing on your almond butter, we're
Speaker 1: you're having pretzels with almond butter because you wouldn't share
Speaker 1: your sandwich on the train. Not that I'm going to
Speaker 1: hold that against offered both sandwiches, to be clear, But anyway,
Speaker 1: we're here on the north side of Capitol Hill where
Speaker 1: an impromptu rally has begun with a bunch of Democratic
Speaker 1: senators protesting the healthcare bill that the Republicans are trying
Speaker 1: to pass through the Senate. And they voted to discuss
Speaker 1: the healthcare bill and emotion to proceed, which means that
Speaker 1: they can commence debate. And these are the formal Brian
Speaker 1: they voted so they can discuss the bill. They voted
Speaker 1: to start talking. Anyway, we shouldn't we shouldn't overlook. This
Speaker 1: is the one year anniversary of our podcast, Katie Anniversary.
Speaker 1: The universary ran too, and we're back where it all
Speaker 1: started on Capitol Hill. That's right. One of our first
Speaker 1: podcasts was with Senator out Frankin and we walked around
Speaker 1: the halls of Congress and talk to folks. And this was,
Speaker 1: of course before the election. We are six months into
Speaker 1: the Donald Trump presidency, with a lot of Democrats standing
Speaker 1: in front of the Capital and basically talking about the
Speaker 1: need to preserve the Affordable Care Act. And we spoke
Speaker 1: to a lot of people who are gathered here mostly
Speaker 1: against what the Republicans are trying to do, but one
Speaker 1: or two Trump supporters as well. We did hear from
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are extremely upset. For many
Speaker 1: of these people, it's a matter of life and death,
Speaker 1: and especially for those who have children with disabilities who
Speaker 1: rely on Medicaid for their care. Um, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of very emotional people. Let's listen to what some
Speaker 1: of them had to say. I have a son with
Speaker 1: Down syndrome and his future depends on Medicaid. With these cuts,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to see how he live independently in work.
Speaker 1: That's why almost of us are you today, people with
Speaker 1: disabilities who rely on Medicaid simply to live. Do you
Speaker 1: think this is going to make a difference to have
Speaker 1: people come out like this, definitely, because this this cuts
Speaker 1: across party lines. Um, you know, disability doesn't discriminate. There's
Speaker 1: millions of families with a member who relies on Medicaid
Speaker 1: because of a disability or an aging parent. And also
Speaker 1: have two of those, so you know, this is a
Speaker 1: real crisis for a lot of people in this country.
Speaker 1: A lot of these people are here worried about what
Speaker 1: these changes will mean, specifically to their disabled kids. Tell
Speaker 1: me how you're feeling about the whole debate where I
Speaker 1: don't care, you don't care, I don't care about the
Speaker 1: bit about them. Um, just kind of just say I
Speaker 1: don't care. Whatever the president wants, I'm for, So I
Speaker 1: would say I'm for the along the place, and I'm
Speaker 1: not particularly concerned about how they license. You know, the
Speaker 1: Congressional Budget Office, as I'm sure you probably have heard,
Speaker 1: estimates anywhere from twenty to thirty two million people will
Speaker 1: lose their healthcare if Obamacare is repealed. And I'm curious
Speaker 1: how you feel about that. Sad, but it's not enough
Speaker 1: for you to speak out against the president or this
Speaker 1: pending legislation. What medical conditions do you have? I have
Speaker 1: sereal posing and I just require um in home care
Speaker 1: people to get me out of bed, help me do
Speaker 1: the things that everybody does to get ready for the day.
Speaker 1: And if services get cut with this healthcare bell um,
Speaker 1: I would wind up in a nursing room. Our services
Speaker 1: like mine would be the first to go. You walked
Speaker 1: all the way here to Washington. We'll have to get
Speaker 1: them to hear her voice. Tell me about Lauren and
Speaker 1: why you're here representing her. She can top should never speak.
Speaker 1: She came off. She can't stand up, So I walked
Speaker 1: for her because she can't walk, and I stood up
Speaker 1: for her because she can't stand, and I'll speak for
Speaker 1: her because she can't speak. They need to leave children
Speaker 1: like her out of politics. This is not a political issue.
Speaker 1: This is humanitarian. This is his life. This is a
Speaker 1: human life. Has nothing to do with a Republican or
Speaker 1: a Democrat, or left or right, or conservative or liberal.
Speaker 1: This is like, of course, we're hair Brian though to
Speaker 1: sit down and talk with Corey Booker. Uh, he's here
Speaker 1: at this rally. He's actually still m seeing the event
Speaker 1: on the steps in front of the Capitol and apparently
Speaker 1: can't stop talking. It's just an editorial observation, our interview slightly. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to hearing from Senator Booker about all
Speaker 1: kinds of things, what's happening here in Washington and the country,
Speaker 1: his views on this health care legislation and Russia, President Trump. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and his presidential aspirations. Many people have seen him as
Speaker 1: a rising star, so we'll hear what he has to
Speaker 1: say about that. Although, Katy, you can't swing your purse
Speaker 1: where we are right now without hitting a potential Democratic
Speaker 1: presidential candidate. I think I've seen a half dozen of
Speaker 1: them in the last twenty minutes. That's true. Here is
Speaker 1: Senator Cory Booker. Welcome to our podcasts and what a
Speaker 1: day here in Washington, d C. God to say, for
Speaker 1: a second, you and I've been friend for a long time.
Speaker 1: I feel I feel at a disadvantage when I'm being
Speaker 1: interviewed by you because I feel so comfortable with you.
Speaker 1: I might just be telling all, well, if you want
Speaker 1: to break some news and announce your candidacy for feel free.
Speaker 1: I will announce I am running in for re election.
Speaker 1: Does New Jersey law permit you to run for both?
Speaker 1: I don't even know the question, Brian interesting, Sure you're
Speaker 1: going to figure out the answer that question pretty too.
Speaker 1: Are very mischievous and and Brian is very prepared. But
Speaker 1: he was pulling stuff out of my bio in the elevator.
Speaker 1: How did you know my favorite breakfast cereal was Captain
Speaker 1: Crunch Crunch berriers, drink Diet Mountain even though your girlfriend
Speaker 1: tells you not to. Well, before we talk more about
Speaker 1: you and your background, it is a eventful day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about from your perspective, how do you process
Speaker 1: what just transpired? It is so unconscionable for and I
Speaker 1: think for those of you don't know. John McCain gave
Speaker 1: a very dramatic speak in the Senate after he voted
Speaker 1: to proceed to a bill when he didn't even know
Speaker 1: what was in the bill. I mean, this whole process,
Speaker 1: from this very beginning is a betrayal of every Senate tradition,
Speaker 1: every Senate custom. Uh, it's even a betrayal for all
Speaker 1: those people who thinks Obamacare was just shoved through. Obamacare
Speaker 1: had hundreds of bipartisan meetings, committee hearings, hundreds of witnesses.
Speaker 1: He actually was amended multiple times by the Republicans. Did
Speaker 1: pass with nary a Republican vote. Absolutely, but there was
Speaker 1: a process that was akin to what the Senate is
Speaker 1: supposed to do, where lots of people are invited in.
Speaker 1: As John McCain himself said, this was a process that
Speaker 1: was done in secrecy, behind closed doors. Just a handful
Speaker 1: of Republicans, no hearings, no witnesses, no input. It was
Speaker 1: roundly condemned by non partis and not by parts of
Speaker 1: a non parts and groups the American Medical Association, American
Speaker 1: Hospital Association, American Cancers ACIDE, I mean, everybody who we
Speaker 1: think of as beyond politics in the medical and healthcare
Speaker 1: industry world condemned this bill the a r P. And
Speaker 1: so then suddenly, literally the people are being interviewed in
Speaker 1: the in the days before this Republicans and saying, I
Speaker 1: don't know what's in this bill, and they just voted
Speaker 1: to proceed to a bill that they don't even know
Speaker 1: what's in it. And that's what's uncomfortable to me that
Speaker 1: this is what has just transpired in the United States Senate.
Speaker 1: But what didn't they basically say, and didn't John McCain
Speaker 1: say in his speech Senator that we need to discuss this,
Speaker 1: we need to consider it, and as a result, isn't
Speaker 1: it possible that the ultimate final bill could look very
Speaker 1: different than the one that they've just sent to Yes, well,
Speaker 1: he actually went even further, which again said he wouldn't
Speaker 1: vote for it, wouldn't vote for it and its current
Speaker 1: incarnation and its current recarnation less. It changed quite a bit.
Speaker 1: But he like others, I'm glad I've expressed skepticism about
Speaker 1: voting for a bill. They gave massive tax breaks to
Speaker 1: the wealthiest amongst us, savage Medicare to the tune of
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen million Americans, drove up costs for older Americans,
Speaker 1: undermine access to Medicaid for people in extended care. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of parts of this bill that were hard
Speaker 1: to pack the stomach for House members who were hoping
Speaker 1: Republicans over here would change it. But I haven't seen
Speaker 1: a change in which Mr mcconnells could hold together the
Speaker 1: disparate members of his co coalition from the Rand Paul's
Speaker 1: and Mike Lee's Susan to the Susan Collins and UM
Speaker 1: Senator Murkowski from from Alaska. But of course he held
Speaker 1: the Allian together. Today, I don't past the motion to proceed,
Speaker 1: and so that a lot of Democrats believe that these complaints,
Speaker 1: these criticisms among Republicans ring hollow because ultimately their votes
Speaker 1: are different than their statements. Absolutely, well, let's go to
Speaker 1: the president. I mean the president. If you just take
Speaker 1: him on what he said, I won't cut Medicaid. I
Speaker 1: won't cut Medicare. I'm going to provide healthcare that because
Speaker 1: greater access that is more affordable. And I think the
Speaker 1: exact word he used was terrific. Healthcare is gonna be terrific. Well,
Speaker 1: this bill on account on an unqualified manner. CBO as
Speaker 1: well as many other outside experts have said, this will
Speaker 1: make healthcare more expensive for the average American, it will
Speaker 1: restrict access for tens of millions of Americans, and it
Speaker 1: will drive down the quality of the care that that
Speaker 1: many Americans have access to. So this is nothing like
Speaker 1: what people have been saying. Where we should be and
Speaker 1: even what John McCain said today is we should all
Speaker 1: take a breather. What did the affordable care acter that
Speaker 1: we like? Most Americans love, the pre existing conditions preserving
Speaker 1: Most Americans like Medicaid expansion. Obviously some governors didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Most Americans are like a lot of aspects, parity between
Speaker 1: mental health care and so called physical health care. There's
Speaker 1: a lot in this bill that people liked, and so
Speaker 1: let's hold the line on those things and try to
Speaker 1: improve the things that are some what problematic. It's problematic
Speaker 1: for example that in the health care exchanges, a small
Speaker 1: percentage of people weren't getting subsidies and more. Well, are
Speaker 1: you hopeful then that there will be uh some kind
Speaker 1: of compromise going on as things move forward? Or do
Speaker 1: you think that now Republicans have been emboldened by this
Speaker 1: motion to proceed or whatever you call it. So the
Speaker 1: Senate doesn't give me hope. What gives me hope is
Speaker 1: what the American people have been doing. Incredible outpourings of
Speaker 1: protests from people on both sides of the political aisle,
Speaker 1: cramming into people's town hall meetings, demanding that they walk
Speaker 1: away from a bill that would hurt them and their families.
Speaker 1: This is the week I would say that people who
Speaker 1: have to have to speak up again and let let
Speaker 1: folks know there'll be consequences if they vote on such
Speaker 1: a disastrous bill that will hurt American families of all backgrounds,
Speaker 1: all geographies, all races, all parties. Democrats have spoken in
Speaker 1: very general terms about fixing Obamacare. Your position is sort
Speaker 1: of mended, don't end it, But what specific improvements or
Speaker 1: changes do you think should be made? Well, look, I'm
Speaker 1: one of those Americans that believes that we need to
Speaker 1: have a different philosophy of healthcare needs to be made
Speaker 1: real and legislation, which is that healthcare is are right,
Speaker 1: that we need to have a nation in which everyone
Speaker 1: is covered, in which everyone has affordable and quality healthcare.
Speaker 1: That should be the end that we should express now.
Speaker 1: I believe there's lots of avenues to get there. Should
Speaker 1: there be single care well less, I'm saying medicare for all.
Speaker 1: We we almost we were one vote shy, I say we,
Speaker 1: I wasn't in the Senate. Then when the Affordable Care
Speaker 1: Act pass of extending Medicare down to people aged fifty,
Speaker 1: I believe that would have been the small end of
Speaker 1: the wedge. I believe at the end other end of
Speaker 1: that would have been people saying, Wow, it's working. Medicare
Speaker 1: is working for now, for people all the way down
Speaker 1: to fifty, Let's expand it for everybody. So I think
Speaker 1: the Medicare for all idea is a really good idea.
Speaker 1: Public options are a really good idea. But I do
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer that the way we're trying to
Speaker 1: go about this is actually giving lots of profits to
Speaker 1: private interests that that uh that are taking money out
Speaker 1: of the health care system and adding great expense to it.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I'm also a realist, as John
Speaker 1: McCain said today, that you know, given where we are
Speaker 1: right now, with the Democrats in the minority and Republicans
Speaker 1: in the majority, and Republicans and controlling two Houses of
Speaker 1: Congress and the White House, that we're going to have
Speaker 1: to try to do what you said, men, Obamacare, don't
Speaker 1: end it, make it better, and do some incremental changes
Speaker 1: before we see unless we see Congress change that doesn't
Speaker 1: seem very desirable politically, does it. I mean, the they,
Speaker 1: the president, and many of these people ran on the
Speaker 1: platform of getting rid of Obamacare, appealing Obamacare. I think
Speaker 1: they're not going to want the appearance of mending, not ending,
Speaker 1: because it will still be Obama. This is the thing
Speaker 1: that almost right. Well, no, I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think you're right, because here's the president we have found
Speaker 1: can lie to the American public, can have Fox News
Speaker 1: respeating everything that they're saying. You don't think he could
Speaker 1: have said I'm bringing in trump Care and we're going
Speaker 1: to do this and this and this, but the real
Speaker 1: bill would have just amended it. He could have called
Speaker 1: it anything you want. He's one of the best carnival
Speaker 1: barkers I've ever seen in American politics, who could tell
Speaker 1: people that he was transforming healthcare and really what he
Speaker 1: did was keep everything people liked and made things better.
Speaker 1: He could have done it that way, in a bipartisan way.
Speaker 1: Here's a president who has missed opportunity after opportunity to
Speaker 1: be who he said he was going to be, the
Speaker 1: great deal maker. This is a guy who had a
Speaker 1: wide opportunity to be a unifying force in this country,
Speaker 1: to bring people together to deal with our major issues.
Speaker 1: But he has completely botched it, and instead he's appealing
Speaker 1: to a very narrow base with outrageous demonization and demagoguery,
Speaker 1: the kind of things that are hurting America given his campaign.
Speaker 1: Are you really surprised? I'm disappointed. His campaign was outraged me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I I was so company he was gonna
Speaker 1: lose because I did not believe anybody can ascend to
Speaker 1: the White House in this day and age by demeaning
Speaker 1: and degrading other Americans, whether it's Mexicans, Muslims, uh, people
Speaker 1: in inner cities, even the way you talked about African Americans,
Speaker 1: all these things, Uh, not to mention women Um, I
Speaker 1: didn't think that was possible, but hey, I was wrong,
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of Democrats were wrong because
Speaker 1: they didn't understand the level of pain that people were
Speaker 1: going through and how Donald Trump was founding a way
Speaker 1: to talk to that pain, um in ways that Democratic
Speaker 1: leaders were not. And so here we are in this
Speaker 1: condition right now. I just I'm curious in terms of
Speaker 1: this healthcare legislation. Is this going to come back to
Speaker 1: bite Republicans in the butt in two thousand and eighteen
Speaker 1: if they in fact support a bill that leaves many
Speaker 1: people uninsured? I certainly hope. So, I mean, are you
Speaker 1: guys going to really make Hay with this? Listen if
Speaker 1: you hurt my neighborhood, my community. I live in Newark,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. I live in the Central war The median
Speaker 1: income in my neighborhood is fourteen dollars UH per household.
Speaker 1: When I walk around my community, people are really worried
Speaker 1: and really afraid. And this bill that they just proceeded to,
Speaker 1: which we don't really know what's in, but if we
Speaker 1: listen to the CBO and their past versions, this bill
Speaker 1: will devastate communities like mine, rural communities, cities across this
Speaker 1: country people with disabilities. I mean, it's a devastating bill.
Speaker 1: So will I politically say if you guys do this,
Speaker 1: you should suffer the consequences at the polls? Heck yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope that happens. But I got hours now, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do everything I can to fight to prevent
Speaker 1: that from happening, because I'm not looking for political advantage.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for helping people, and we should stop this
Speaker 1: bill um from happening. What do you make of the
Speaker 1: argument that just as the Republicans have moved too far
Speaker 1: to the right, Democrats have gone off the left side
Speaker 1: of the cliff, Because how so? I mean, well, I
Speaker 1: think on trade, you could make the argument that they've
Speaker 1: abandoned the Trans Pacific Partnership, buying a bunch of arguments
Speaker 1: that aren't really legitimate about what it would have done
Speaker 1: to American workers, when really it's automation far more than
Speaker 1: trade that have cost jobs. On single payer, my home
Speaker 1: state of California, which has Democratic supermajorities, tried to pass
Speaker 1: single payer and it didn't work because the cost of
Speaker 1: it was more than the whole state budget and there
Speaker 1: was no answer for how it could be affordable. Um,
Speaker 1: and some of the rhetoric. This is not my opinion,
Speaker 1: but the opinion of many independent analysts is us versus them.
Speaker 1: But for them, isn't a Muslim or a Mexican. It's
Speaker 1: a billionaire or a banker, or somebody in one of
Speaker 1: the industries like prescription drugs or healthcare that Democrats have
Speaker 1: decided are not good for America. So I'm a former mayor,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, I think the Wall Street Jurnal
Speaker 1: said I was the twenty one person in American history,
Speaker 1: goes straight from being a mayor to being a United
Speaker 1: States Senator. I had to fix stuff, um that I
Speaker 1: couldn't use philosophy. As Fiolor Litt Guardias said, there's no
Speaker 1: Republican or Democratic way to fix a pothole. You just
Speaker 1: gotta fix it. And and that's the way I view
Speaker 1: the country right now. And I've seen I've seen Trump
Speaker 1: trash trade deals as much as you see people on
Speaker 1: on either side of the aisle doing it. I don't
Speaker 1: think my party, in a very pragmatic way, is going
Speaker 1: off the rails in some way. I don't want to
Speaker 1: use the spectrums of left and right, because I'm not
Speaker 1: even sure what is left what is right anymore? I
Speaker 1: think that that what we, what the core of my
Speaker 1: party is saying, are pragmatic things that in a balance
Speaker 1: sheet analysis UM, which is what I had to use
Speaker 1: every day as a mayor, that net net they create wealth,
Speaker 1: they create growth, um to create opportunity. And I'll just
Speaker 1: give some things that people might want to characterize as
Speaker 1: left like, let's say something like funding housing. Well Seattle
Speaker 1: to study a great organization called Plymouth Housing Group out
Speaker 1: there said what is more expensive supportive housing for people
Speaker 1: with special needs and mental health issues or keeping them
Speaker 1: on the streets. They actually found out they saved the
Speaker 1: million dollars to taxpayers by taking people off the streets
Speaker 1: and putting in support of housing. Why well, people who
Speaker 1: ran cities know this. They end up in our emergency rooms,
Speaker 1: end up in our jails. It's more expensive to do
Speaker 1: the morally on sound thing. Let's use another example. Why
Speaker 1: is it that all of our competitors have paid family
Speaker 1: leave and universal preschool because they know when you invest
Speaker 1: in children, it is in a global knowledge based environment.
Speaker 1: It is the most valuable natural resource of country has
Speaker 1: is no longer coal or gas or oil. It's the
Speaker 1: genius of your children, and you've got to put an
Speaker 1: environment to cultivate that. So I can show you all
Speaker 1: the things are the core base of the Democratic Party
Speaker 1: that appealed to people from Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren
Speaker 1: all the way to Mark Warner, uh And and Joe Mansion.
Speaker 1: Things that we believe in, like raising the minimum wage.
Speaker 1: We now have data that looks at places like Seattle
Speaker 1: and other places. It shows that you don't crush small businesses.
Speaker 1: But I thought, I thought, Uh, correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: But I thought that it really did cause a lot
Speaker 1: of people to lose their jobs in Seattle according to
Speaker 1: a study that a lot of businesses had to fire
Speaker 1: people when they raise the minimum wage. So I saw
Speaker 1: it was out on Fox News or something exactly. Know,
Speaker 1: there's been some data that's come out that's been highly
Speaker 1: disputed about the impact of minimum wage. But let's pull
Speaker 1: back in from Seattle. There's so much study about places
Speaker 1: that raise the minimum wage, including New Jersey, that raises
Speaker 1: in the minimum wage um did not affect a business growth.
Speaker 1: And in fact, the best evidence for that is that
Speaker 1: when the minimum wage was established in the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 1: in real dollars, it's much higher than it is now.
Speaker 1: If you just had kept up with inflation, it would
Speaker 1: be over fifteen dollars an hours. So if it was
Speaker 1: undermining growth back then, um um, it wasn't. In fact,
Speaker 1: those years sixties seventies were some of the greatest expansions
Speaker 1: of the middle class we've ever seen. So so I
Speaker 1: just wanted, I just believe that that I forget democratic
Speaker 1: rep publican investing in children, investing in seniors, investing in
Speaker 1: the poor. Uh, We've got to be a nation like
Speaker 1: our past, like in the forties and the fifties and
Speaker 1: the sixties and the seventies that invested in Americans and
Speaker 1: invested in America education, infrastructure, science and research and development,
Speaker 1: all those things that this generation of Republicans have turned
Speaker 1: our government away from. And other nations including immigration, by
Speaker 1: the way, other nations Canada, Germany, Japan. What are they saying,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, look what America's turning away from its past. Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna out America. You. We're gonna invest in our
Speaker 1: infrastructure more than you are, except for building prisons. We're
Speaker 1: gonna invest in education more than you are. We're gonna
Speaker 1: invest in immigration. What do they have out in Silicon Valley.
Speaker 1: They say, hey, can't get your H one B visa,
Speaker 1: come to Canada. We want you because college presidents come
Speaker 1: to me and say, we're graduating people in degrees I
Speaker 1: can't even spell micro immunology, biology, whatever it is, And
Speaker 1: as soon as they finish their student visa, the brightest
Speaker 1: minds of the planet Earth, we kicked them out of
Speaker 1: our country. So we've got to get back to doing
Speaker 1: what actually worked in a are going to build out
Speaker 1: the middle class, to close the race gap, to give
Speaker 1: more people avenues out, social mobility, out of poverty, into
Speaker 1: the middle class. That other countries are not doing better
Speaker 1: than us. We need to get back to being better
Speaker 1: at being America than other people are. Why do you
Speaker 1: think Hillary Clinton was unsuccessful of prosecuting the argument that
Speaker 1: you just made, and why do you think that it
Speaker 1: seems I think there was another survey I read recently.
Speaker 1: I read so much sometimes you can't even remember what
Speaker 1: you read and where that said people still don't know
Speaker 1: what Democrats stand for. It wasn't there a recently. Y're
Speaker 1: trying to fill in that gap with the agenda you
Speaker 1: announced this week. But why have Democrats failed to make
Speaker 1: this case that Hillary. Well, look, I think that we
Speaker 1: need to get back to understanding as a country, all
Speaker 1: of us, that we have a common pain and we
Speaker 1: need to get back to a common national purpose. And
Speaker 1: for some reason, we don't feel like we have a
Speaker 1: common pain anymore. I've visited from the rural areas UH
Speaker 1: that are predominantly white and poor in my state, to
Speaker 1: the to the minority areas UH inner city areas are
Speaker 1: predominantly Black, Latino and poor, and the struggles people are
Speaker 1: having are so much the same, whether it's trying to
Speaker 1: incarcerate yourself out of a drug problem and you're seeing
Speaker 1: people getting arrested outrageous raised not getting drug treatment, to
Speaker 1: not having schools that are providing the kind of pathways
Speaker 1: to middle class jobs that we need. We have a
Speaker 1: common pain, but we haven't talked about a common purpose.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of evidence that Donald Trump won
Speaker 1: not because of economic pain, but because of cultural identification
Speaker 1: and polarization. Many of his voters were not economically struggling
Speaker 1: or were economically better off than they were when they
Speaker 1: voted four years ago for Barack Obama. So if it's
Speaker 1: just about Democrats providing a stronger economic message, um is
Speaker 1: that actually sufficient Tandon from the who's extraordinary leader of
Speaker 1: the Center for American Progress today and a very close
Speaker 1: aide to Hillary Clinton. Yes, and she was saying to
Speaker 1: me that she was looking at a map of Clinton
Speaker 1: voters versus UM Trump voters and he's and saw that
Speaker 1: you had these interesting UM realities where you saw a
Speaker 1: lot of these urban areas where are starting to grow again.
Speaker 1: I mean New York, New Jersey where I was mayor,
Speaker 1: first time, the greatest economic development peers since the nineteen sixties. Um.
Speaker 1: You see population growth, first time since the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: There are population is growing. You're seeing a lot of
Speaker 1: these urban areas that are starting to see economic growth
Speaker 1: and opportunity. You're seeing a lot of folks supporting Secretary
Speaker 1: Clinton where she want. You're seeing a lot of these
Speaker 1: other areas that are not there, that are losing factories.
Speaker 1: And I agree with you more because of the microchip
Speaker 1: than Mexicans, UM, but are starting to see a loss
Speaker 1: as coal mining towns. A lot of people that are
Speaker 1: suffering economically and nobody is showing them that this is
Speaker 1: an inclusive vision for America. UM. That Donald Trump was
Speaker 1: able to come in there and exploit that pain and
Speaker 1: actually say it's not your fault. It's the Mexican's fault.
Speaker 1: It's not your fault, it's the Muslim's fault. It's not
Speaker 1: your fault. It's these crazy left wing people who are
Speaker 1: serving the elites and really sold them this idea that
Speaker 1: we don't have a better economic plan where I know, fundamentally,
Speaker 1: if you are struggling in a rural town, which party
Speaker 1: is fighting for the earned income tax credit, Which party
Speaker 1: is writing for the raising your minimum wage? Which party
Speaker 1: wants to fight against more tax brates for the wealthiest
Speaker 1: of people, and more opportunity for you and your schools
Speaker 1: and your community colleges so you can afford education or training.
Speaker 1: That's the Democratic Party. But Donald Trump was such a
Speaker 1: good carnival barker that he strolled on in two places
Speaker 1: where the people voted for Obama twice and really sell
Speaker 1: to them this US versus them. Any Time a leader
Speaker 1: tries to divide this country against itself, we should reject
Speaker 1: that leader. Any Time a leader tries to say we're
Speaker 1: all in this together, we need each other, we have
Speaker 1: one common destiny, that's the leader I want to follow. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump played the divide and conquer and he was
Speaker 1: able to win the presidency. And he's still trying to
Speaker 1: over in that way, dividing and conquering. But he's dividing
Speaker 1: this that the Senate, he's dividing the House, and what's
Speaker 1: happening is America's getting the raw deal. Do you think
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders ever plays divide and conquered politics? Look, I
Speaker 1: think that a Senator Sanders provided a vision for this
Speaker 1: country on policy that was bold and visionary to say, hey,
Speaker 1: we need to be a nation that educates again and
Speaker 1: pointing out the reality is how expensive it is to
Speaker 1: go to college. It's something that's really, I think, very
Speaker 1: attractive to me. And so he painted in broad strokes,
Speaker 1: bold strokes that capture the imagination of a lot of Americans.
Speaker 1: And so did he vilify this US versus them wealthy
Speaker 1: elites and what have you. I'm a person that said
Speaker 1: that my style of politics is I'm not gonna demonize anybody,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that that Bernie Sanders did, but
Speaker 1: i am'm gonna point things out like the ridiculousness of
Speaker 1: carried interest for crying out loud, I mean, you gotta
Speaker 1: be kidding me. Anybody who's benefiting from that massive tax loophole,
Speaker 1: while there are people inner cities that are struggling with
Speaker 1: environmental desolation because we can't fund clean up super fun
Speaker 1: clean up sites. I mean, Dear God, give up your
Speaker 1: carried interests so that we can clean up the most
Speaker 1: toxic environments that are poising our children. That's inexcusable to
Speaker 1: me for people to be able to benefit and ways
Speaker 1: through the tax code that are hurting other people. Now
Speaker 1: I'm not demonizing those people, but I'm calling out things
Speaker 1: that our nation is doing that it's hurting people. It's
Speaker 1: time to take a quick break. When we return more
Speaker 1: with Senator Corey Booker right after this, and now back
Speaker 1: with Senator Corey Booker. I think for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: you're probably more famous than well known, and so we
Speaker 1: want to give people a better sense of who you
Speaker 1: actually are, where you come from. Threw up in a
Speaker 1: small parents were two of the first black executives. Start.
Speaker 1: I was born a poor black child with no rhythm,
Speaker 1: and that was Steve Martin. Yes, you know that. I
Speaker 1: think these jokes now in front of millennial audiences and
Speaker 1: they give me blank faces. Yeah, I'm actually an eighty
Speaker 1: year old man in a in a thirty five year
Speaker 1: old year old. That's the nicest thing anybody's ever said
Speaker 1: to be. But I talk a little bit about your
Speaker 1: childhood Corey for Senator Booker for people who are listening, because, um,
Speaker 1: you've had such a fascinating life, and paint, uh what
Speaker 1: life was like in a mostly white New Jersey suburb
Speaker 1: called Harrington Park. Well, I think the great drama of
Speaker 1: my life happened when I was only a full months old,
Speaker 1: which is to be born to two black parents who
Speaker 1: really struggled, Um, and are products of a revolution in
Speaker 1: this country. They are products of a civil rights revolution
Speaker 1: and rode that wave of the struggles of so many
Speaker 1: people who opened up doors, including them, that opened up
Speaker 1: doors for them that were unheard of in the black community.
Speaker 1: My father born poor to a single mother who used
Speaker 1: to say, son, I can I couldn't afford to be poor.
Speaker 1: I was just poe peel, I couldn't afford the other
Speaker 1: two letters. Um, this is my dad's child. Seemed to
Speaker 1: get worse the older he got, But the truth is
Speaker 1: he but my dad did grow up in a segregated
Speaker 1: town in the mountains of North Carolina to a mother
Speaker 1: who couldn't ultimately take care of him, and was taken
Speaker 1: in by a family in the community, raised in the
Speaker 1: Black church, who put money together in a collection plate
Speaker 1: to try to get him off to a historically black college,
Speaker 1: where he landed in the midst of the Civil Rights movement.
Speaker 1: The sitt In movement started right there in North Carolina,
Speaker 1: and next thing you know, he's watching the country change,
Speaker 1: rushing with his friends to join up with people of
Speaker 1: all backgrounds to fight to tear down these roles of segregation.
Speaker 1: At that time, after college Lantern Washington, d C. Where
Speaker 1: we're sitting and again right place, right time, right education,
Speaker 1: it was activists in the Urban League and other places
Speaker 1: that started putting pressure on companies or working with companies
Speaker 1: to hire their first ever blacks in certain jobs. So
Speaker 1: my dad becomes the first black person hired by IBM
Speaker 1: in the Virginia area as a salesman. And then you
Speaker 1: put qualified people, I don't care if they're if they're gay,
Speaker 1: if they're people with disabilities. You give qualified people an
Speaker 1: opportunity they thrive, and next thing you know, my dad
Speaker 1: is just their top five percent of global salesman gets
Speaker 1: a promotion up to Manhattan, and he will tell you
Speaker 1: at that point in his life, and it's a late twenties,
Speaker 1: he was living a life beyond his dreams of a
Speaker 1: small kid in a in a poor town. And so
Speaker 1: my mom the same story, I mean, really so similar.
Speaker 1: She actually had two parents that My grandfather was a
Speaker 1: U a W, one of their first early black um
Speaker 1: UH union workers, and was able to provide my mom
Speaker 1: with even a little bit more stability than my dad had.
Speaker 1: And my grandmother and grandfather raised my mom and sent
Speaker 1: her off to Fisk University, a great HBCU and in
Speaker 1: in Memphis, Tennessee. And she herself moved to uh d
Speaker 1: C started working in their public schools as a speech pathologist,
Speaker 1: and then also became one of IBM's early black executives.
Speaker 1: And so here you have these two folks, products of
Speaker 1: the Civil rights movement, products of historically black colleges, all
Speaker 1: these interventions that tried to create a more equal society.
Speaker 1: And then they try to move into Harrington Park, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: this incredible town which I would grow up in, but
Speaker 1: they were denied houses in this area of Bergen County.
Speaker 1: So again activism had to try to step in, and again,
Speaker 1: you know, with the sting operation. These incredible lawyers in
Speaker 1: their fair Housing council and activists. They let my parents
Speaker 1: go look at the house, and then they would send
Speaker 1: a white couple to look at my house. The house. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: my parents loved this house. They were told it was sold.
Speaker 1: The white couple found the house, found it was for sale,
Speaker 1: put a bid on the house for my parents. The
Speaker 1: bid was accepted, papers drawn up, and on the day
Speaker 1: of the closing, they surprised the real estate agent and
Speaker 1: surprised and they but amazingly when the real estate agent, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but the realestate agent didn't capitulate. He didn't just say
Speaker 1: he got me um. He actually got up and punched
Speaker 1: my dad's lawyer in the face and singing a dog
Speaker 1: on my dad. And after this big melee in this office,
Speaker 1: lawyers got involved the whole thing, and eventually they relented
Speaker 1: and we bought this house and we moved in. And
Speaker 1: so my father used to tease us and call us
Speaker 1: the four raisins in a tub of sweet vanilla ice cream.
Speaker 1: And so imagine just this. By the time I'm eighteen
Speaker 1: years old, they spent eighteen years lecturing my brother and
Speaker 1: I do not forget where you came from. Do not
Speaker 1: forget the struggle that got you here. You drink deeply
Speaker 1: from wells of freedom, liberty, and opportunity that you didn't dig.
Speaker 1: My dad's smart remark to me would always be, boy,
Speaker 1: don't you dare walk around this house like you hit
Speaker 1: a triple. You were born on third base, and you
Speaker 1: can't pay back all those people that fought for you,
Speaker 1: struggled for you. But your damn well going to pay
Speaker 1: it forward by finding a way of being a service.
Speaker 1: And my dad was impatient. You know who would have
Speaker 1: thought his son. I went to Stanford University, and I
Speaker 1: always have to confess I got in because of a
Speaker 1: four point oh and sixteen hundred four point of yards
Speaker 1: per carry, sixteen hundred receiving yards. I used it all
Speaker 1: the time to let people know that I got it
Speaker 1: because I was. I got it because I was a
Speaker 1: damn good fotball player, at least above average high school
Speaker 1: football player. Yeah, but my so. But my dad, as
Speaker 1: I'm doing all that stuff, He's like, boy, you've got
Speaker 1: more degrees in the month of July, but you ain't hot.
Speaker 1: When are you gonna When are you gonna do something
Speaker 1: for this country? You you were you were given all
Speaker 1: this privilege and this opportunity to join the fight because
Speaker 1: you won't be called to you know, ride buses on
Speaker 1: freedom rides to march to Selma to register people to vote,
Speaker 1: and folks were dying Goodman Cheney Schwarner in the sixties.
Speaker 1: But all those people put that effort out for you.
Speaker 1: What are you going to do to prove worthy? So
Speaker 1: my brother and I, who were programmed from an early
Speaker 1: age to feel this sort of outrageous gratitude to this country,
Speaker 1: but also this understanding is my father, who raised us
Speaker 1: in the Black church, who always kept us close to
Speaker 1: the black community, you know, family and Newark, you name it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to point out to my brother and I
Speaker 1: that there are people struggling outrageous injustice is not of
Speaker 1: their own making, and you need to be justice committed
Speaker 1: dealing with those injustices as your as your ancestors, your
Speaker 1: parents and grandparents and their generation were committed to fighting
Speaker 1: injustices that existed then. So you mentioned new Work. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people would be surprised to know
Speaker 1: that in your last year at Yale Law School, you
Speaker 1: commuted two hours to and from Newark in order to
Speaker 1: go to classes, which is pretty rare thing to do.
Speaker 1: You didn't grow up in Newark, your parents didn't live
Speaker 1: in Newark. What what connected you to Newark and why
Speaker 1: did you decide to make your life there? Well, gosh,
Speaker 1: by the time I was in law school, I had
Speaker 1: um from the time I was eighteen to graduate in
Speaker 1: law school twenty seven, that like decade was all about
Speaker 1: cities for me, and everywhere I would go. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to be a part of cities and not only
Speaker 1: the urban struggle but also the urban imagination and trying
Speaker 1: to create better things. And so I had some family
Speaker 1: and the way you call your parents, close friends, aunts
Speaker 1: and uncle's who lived in New York, who new New York,
Speaker 1: and I had grown up sort of coming back and
Speaker 1: forth there, and I just felt connected to this community
Speaker 1: and decided that that's where I was going to move.
Speaker 1: And my dream was to be Jeffrey Canada. He was
Speaker 1: my hero coming out of law school, who was the
Speaker 1: head of something called the Harlem Children's Zone. And if
Speaker 1: you read his book for Stick Knife Gun, you see
Speaker 1: that he looked for the toughest neighborhood he could find
Speaker 1: and moved into that neighborhood and so I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to do the same thing. You
Speaker 1: lived in public housing. I moved into on Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King Boulevard, the southern part of that street in Newark.
Speaker 1: Um was was um greeted with my stuff being stolen
Speaker 1: in my car when I was moving into this small place.
Speaker 1: But I met heroes, I meant, and I mean some
Speaker 1: of the still some of the most moving up. And
Speaker 1: I was saying at my BA from Stanford by my
Speaker 1: PhD on the streets of New York. I've read that.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you you had to think of one
Speaker 1: person who really taught you something. I was intrigued by
Speaker 1: that statement. Who was the best teacher you had? Well,
Speaker 1: incredible professors in the pros, they were professors, they were
Speaker 1: street professors, were professors of the neighborhood. So ms Virginia Jones,
Speaker 1: who was a tenant president of the building that I
Speaker 1: would move into, this these tough projects, whose son was
Speaker 1: murdered in the lobby of the building in which I
Speaker 1: lived in the eighties. Um, she you know, she caught
Speaker 1: me right when I landed in New York from Yale.
Speaker 1: Put me in my place real quick. She says, like
Speaker 1: you're gonna help me, She goes, describe this neighborhood. I
Speaker 1: still remember this moment where she says, I'm like what
Speaker 1: she goes described the neighborhood. And I described it like
Speaker 1: it was at a crack house that I live right
Speaker 1: next to, and at these the projects. I described that
Speaker 1: sort of a tough view of neighborhood, like anybody would
Speaker 1: probably see with their own eyes. And she just said,
Speaker 1: you know you can never help me? Then, uh? And
Speaker 1: I go why she goes, because the world you see
Speaker 1: outside of you is always a reflection of what you
Speaker 1: have inside of you. And if you're one of these
Speaker 1: people only sees problems in darkness and despair, that's all
Speaker 1: there's ever gonna be. But if you're one of these
Speaker 1: stubborn people who every time you open your eyes you
Speaker 1: see hope, you see opportunity, you see love, you see
Speaker 1: the face of God, then you can be someone that
Speaker 1: helps me. And I began just by sitting in her
Speaker 1: apartment and watching people line up at the door a
Speaker 1: different times to come into for help, whether they needed
Speaker 1: their son, needed a job, or they're having difficulty meeting
Speaker 1: the rent or the worst slum lord I had ever
Speaker 1: sort of experienced um, which we eventually took on and
Speaker 1: eventually got convicted in federal court. But she was this
Speaker 1: amazing person who lived her life to serve others. And
Speaker 1: she was fierce. I mean, she was tough. I mean
Speaker 1: she was a five feet in the smiseon toll but
Speaker 1: intimidated me at six ft three. Um, and uh, you
Speaker 1: know she she's passed away, now, are you kidding me? Um?
Speaker 1: I couldn't go a day or or or multiple days
Speaker 1: without her calling me up the bark orders at me,
Speaker 1: even when I was mayor of the city. And um,
Speaker 1: look she she taught me the definition of hope, which
Speaker 1: was that hope is not It doesn't exist in an abstract.
Speaker 1: Hope is confronting the wretchedness of the world. Uh, seeing
Speaker 1: the depravity. Hope doesn't exist in abstract. You can't have
Speaker 1: great hope unless there's great despair. Hope this active conviction
Speaker 1: that despair will not have the last word. So yeah,
Speaker 1: here's this woman. They murder her son in the lobby
Speaker 1: of the building. She and I were probably to the
Speaker 1: highest net worth owners in those buildings. We could have
Speaker 1: lived anywhere. But she never ever left. Uh like Maymie
Speaker 1: Till who kept Emmett Till's cough and open um. She
Speaker 1: decided that she was going to be an agent of
Speaker 1: hope and instrument of hope in the world that desperately
Speaker 1: needs it. And so it was women like her that
Speaker 1: taught me. And I I broke a few times in
Speaker 1: my time in New York, and I still remember after
Speaker 1: witnessing a horrible time where a young boy died and
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give up. I was so angry
Speaker 1: at the world. And this woman I'll never forget. It
Speaker 1: was just her and I in the courtyard of these projects,
Speaker 1: and I'm this big guy, but she just held me
Speaker 1: like a little child, and I just broke inside. I
Speaker 1: I soaked her shirt, just weeping on this woman's shoulder.
Speaker 1: I was so angry and emotional thinking about it right now.
Speaker 1: And all she did was hold me and say over
Speaker 1: and over again, stay faithful, Stay faithful, Stay faithful. And
Speaker 1: so that to me is this message right now and
Speaker 1: most Americans, and and this has been interesting, and I
Speaker 1: lost my temper a little bit in a speech I
Speaker 1: was giving yesterday to a bunch of lawyers about everybody
Speaker 1: wants to focus on Donald Trump. There's outrageous injustices going
Speaker 1: on this world Before Donald Trump, you know, people said, oh, Corey,
Speaker 1: there was ten percent drops in African American votes in
Speaker 1: places like Michigan, and and and and and Pennsylvania. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not just people in rural white communities,
Speaker 1: just people in urban black communities were beginning to lose
Speaker 1: faith that this government's going to do anything because we're
Speaker 1: not seeing each other or suffering. I went through Louisiana
Speaker 1: and and um Mississippi in Alabama a few weekends ago,
Speaker 1: just to visit places in rural America, uh to Lassie, Alabama,
Speaker 1: Union Town, Alabama, and and just to bear witness people
Speaker 1: pack these churches because they couldn't believe. Uh. They were
Speaker 1: so grateful that a federal official was coming down and
Speaker 1: looking at the hell in which they're living because we
Speaker 1: allowed the worst type of hateful hypocrisy and corporate villainy.
Speaker 1: Where these companies locate environmental disasters, whether it's uh landfills
Speaker 1: or imagine a place that everybody knows it as cancer alley,
Speaker 1: where these petrochemical companies are releasing hundreds of times higher
Speaker 1: rates of carcinogens and to the air than other communities,
Speaker 1: and people are just saying why won't anybody do something?
Speaker 1: And why do we accept it? Is it racism? So look,
Speaker 1: I think racism is something we need to confront and
Speaker 1: tell the truth about. Why is it? When you ask
Speaker 1: Harvard to study I think it was them that asked
Speaker 1: Americans to to picture a drug dealer black and white
Speaker 1: Americans say somebody black as the majority Americans to picture
Speaker 1: a welfare recipient, and the majority of them will describe
Speaker 1: somebody that's black, majority of both of those circumstances or
Speaker 1: plurality or white people, and and and so I do
Speaker 1: think racist this pernicious evil that we don't speak enough
Speaker 1: because it often puts people in defensive posture as opposed
Speaker 1: to speaking to it in a way that calls to
Speaker 1: our compassion or empathy for the truth. And So what's
Speaker 1: your question is does race complicate and compound this problem? Hell? Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you have a criminal justice system rightfully, as as
Speaker 1: Michelle Alexander calls the new Jim Crow, it is. It
Speaker 1: is devastating uh aggravating racial problems in this country in
Speaker 1: terms of disparities and an outcome because there's no difference
Speaker 1: between blacks and whites for using drugs or even dealing drugs.
Speaker 1: In fact, some studies show that young white folks have
Speaker 1: young white men have a little bit higher rates. But
Speaker 1: you and I both know, all three of us who
Speaker 1: went to college campuses, nobody at Stanford was getting stopped
Speaker 1: and frisked for using drugs. Um, there's no FBI stings
Speaker 1: on the local fraternity. And you and I all of
Speaker 1: us know. And I don't mean to put you guys
Speaker 1: in implicate you guys in this, but you know where
Speaker 1: to get the pot from the adder roll the ecstasy
Speaker 1: the Brian, Brian definitely does no where to get ecstasy. Guy, Okay,
Speaker 1: you take me well, but but rich and privileged people.
Speaker 1: We live in a country is Brian Stevenson says, well,
Speaker 1: you get a better sense of justice if you're rich
Speaker 1: and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. I love
Speaker 1: Brian Stevenson, just parenthetic. He's like the Mandela of America.
Speaker 1: Why doesn't he run for president because he's doing more
Speaker 1: important work and making more of a difference than he could. Uh, oh,
Speaker 1: you don't really believe that he's making more of a
Speaker 1: difference than if you were president in the United States.
Speaker 1: I think the reality is I thought I thought I
Speaker 1: heard it more. It's like, why doesn't he run for
Speaker 1: the Senate? Clearly he's getting more done in the Senator.
Speaker 1: If I can blink my eyes and replace the current
Speaker 1: president with Brian Stevenson, I think that we would be
Speaker 1: pleased before we completely lose the threat of your biography. Sorry,
Speaker 1: we're limited on time. So you know one thing, you
Speaker 1: are very famous for all these good works, the ten
Speaker 1: day hunger strike to draw attention to drug dealing. You
Speaker 1: spend a week subsisting on the budget of a food
Speaker 1: stamp recipient. You have lived in one of the most
Speaker 1: crime plagued areas, not just in your state, but but
Speaker 1: the country. And I think for most people this is
Speaker 1: all extraordinarily laudable. But the knock on you among some
Speaker 1: snarky liberals is that these are these are stunts. As
Speaker 1: I was researching uh this podcast, Salon wrote, He's done
Speaker 1: a lot of stunts designed to make people aware of poverty,
Speaker 1: or at least to make people aware of Corey Booker's
Speaker 1: awareness of poverty. And I'm just curious, what's your reaction
Speaker 1: when you see something like that? Um, I don't. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: if people are not criticizing you, you probably aren't doing
Speaker 1: that much to make change, to make a difference. And
Speaker 1: you know, I love my neighborhood. And if people want
Speaker 1: to say, in fact, I know lots of leaders have
Speaker 1: decided to go live in the projects for a week
Speaker 1: or something like that. I've lived in my community for
Speaker 1: eight years in brick Towers, and I still live in
Speaker 1: that same neighborhood right now. Um, I love my neighbors.
Speaker 1: It's my community. I'm not doing it, uh to bring attention.
Speaker 1: I'm doing because I love my community. And frankly, I'm
Speaker 1: living my values. I think that we have divided ourselves
Speaker 1: too much. We put walls up against um. So I
Speaker 1: just love where I live, and I love and I
Speaker 1: am who I am. It's hard to have an eight
Speaker 1: year stunt, isn't it. Yes, or now it's twenty years.
Speaker 1: Twenty years in fact, when I become mayor, I decided
Speaker 1: to move into the only time I've moved out of
Speaker 1: the neighborho i've lived in, and I lived in there
Speaker 1: eight years before mayor, and I've lived there since. I've
Speaker 1: become the center. This is my community. But I moved
Speaker 1: aside to move into the section of the city as
Speaker 1: mayor where they were the most shootings. Now, what if
Speaker 1: all of our leaders had to do that? Because what
Speaker 1: I call a hateful hypocrisy is when you are comfortable
Speaker 1: because your family and you live in a nice neighborhood.
Speaker 1: You're sworn to uphold this Constitution to liberty and justice
Speaker 1: for all, but but your family is not on the line. Um.
Speaker 1: Bryan Stevenson talks about the importance of being proximate. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know that that we're also sided when he warned
Speaker 1: his priests go out and be amongst the people, smell
Speaker 1: like the people. Um. I just think there's something powerful
Speaker 1: about leadership that doesn't separate itself, doesn't put itself above,
Speaker 1: puts itself with And I swore to myself. In fact,
Speaker 1: Miss Jones made me, literally made me. She said. This
Speaker 1: is when I was left the city council. She warned
Speaker 1: me that often we left people count and they leave us.
Speaker 1: And I made a commitment to this amazing woman that
Speaker 1: I will not leave where I live. I live still
Speaker 1: in that community. I've decided your campaign song be me,
Speaker 1: Me and Mrs Mrs Jones. I hope people will giggle
Speaker 1: that song got a thing going on. But how do
Speaker 1: you think that like if if I sing it every podcast.
Speaker 1: So thank you for allowing very nicely. But I just
Speaker 1: want to ask the question, what would what would what
Speaker 1: would be doing right now? If about super fun sites
Speaker 1: if every Senator like me live within a mile of
Speaker 1: a super fun site, or about how senator didn't have
Speaker 1: What would we do about violent crime? If every Senator
Speaker 1: had to live in the part of their state with
Speaker 1: the most violent crime. I don't know if any other
Speaker 1: Senator had a shooting on their block this last month
Speaker 1: or two, what will be doing about violent crime? What
Speaker 1: would be doing about a drug addiction if every Senator
Speaker 1: lived across the street. I love Cross Street from one
Speaker 1: of Integrity House facility. I've gone and sat with the
Speaker 1: men and women who sit in a circle of recovery.
Speaker 1: I just think that I don't care what people say
Speaker 1: about it. My entire adult life, I've lived and worked
Speaker 1: in inner city communities. And over my desk in my office,
Speaker 1: UH is the map of the central ward of Newark
Speaker 1: where I live. That's where my career professional life coming
Speaker 1: out of law school started. And every decision I make,
Speaker 1: whether it's battling for healthcare, for prescription drugs, long coast
Speaker 1: of prescription drugs, whether it's dealing with the criminal justice system,
Speaker 1: whether it's infrastructure. I actually want to use the lens
Speaker 1: of the community which I live in to guide my
Speaker 1: decisions because I love it when I go home. You know,
Speaker 1: folk don't take me seriously, and I don't take my
Speaker 1: title seriously. They take me seriously, but they don't care. Uh,
Speaker 1: they don't actually don't care about the politics often the
Speaker 1: debates and the positioning. What they really care about is, hey,
Speaker 1: this is what's going on in our street or And
Speaker 1: when I was mayor, it gave me great satisfaction. I
Speaker 1: got to see to stand there with people and saying, look,
Speaker 1: we got that park built, we have that new supermarket
Speaker 1: in town. We're building some new affordable housing here. And
Speaker 1: as a senator who has to come down the watch
Speaker 1: and every week, I don't want to be pulled too
Speaker 1: far away from the urgencies that got me in politics
Speaker 1: and the responsibility I have to the people. You. There
Speaker 1: was an OSCAR nominated fabulous documentary about your first campaign,
Speaker 1: which is I always advise that you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: spectacular failure in your life. Have a documentary team there
Speaker 1: to capture. Yeah. I think I think he comes across
Speaker 1: a little better than Anthony Weiner and his documentary. I
Speaker 1: will say that you want you want to know the ignominy,
Speaker 1: and that's not it. Uh, the real shame of the
Speaker 1: documentaries that so, my most humiliating loss gets captured in
Speaker 1: this documentary film gets nominated for an oscar and guess
Speaker 1: what it loses to in the Academy Awards. March of
Speaker 1: the dag Nab Penguins. It's like, it's hard to compete
Speaker 1: with the peg and and and and Morgan Freedman for
Speaker 1: crying out loud driving Miss Daisy like he's got the
Speaker 1: best voice in the world. If he had narrated our film,
Speaker 1: we probably would know. It's the old Hollywood rule. You
Speaker 1: never compete with the animals because the audience always likes
Speaker 1: the thoughts. Compete with Freman, that's as well. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you won president. You won four years after the campaign
Speaker 1: that was captured in that film, And probably the thing
Speaker 1: that got the most national attention was Mark Zuckerberg coming in.
Speaker 1: Please tell me that that was not the most national attention.
Speaker 1: I can give you more things that captured it, but
Speaker 1: that was a big moment. That was a big moment,
Speaker 1: and he offered to spend a hundred million dollars, did
Speaker 1: in fact spend a hundred million dollars to try to
Speaker 1: turn around Newark schools, which you said would be a
Speaker 1: model of educational excellence, and other philanthropists came in with
Speaker 1: even more money us. How do you assess the results
Speaker 1: of that experiment an outrageous success if you just look
Speaker 1: at the data of the New York school system and
Speaker 1: I got by the way, he wasn't the only factor
Speaker 1: contributing to the success as the school system has had.
Speaker 1: But let's pull back and look at what does the
Speaker 1: data say about the New York school system? Now, well,
Speaker 1: we just recently, not recently, it's been about it over
Speaker 1: a year. Were ranked the number one city in America
Speaker 1: for beat the odds schools, high poverty, high performance. So
Speaker 1: you have schools that have taken kids from extraordinarily different
Speaker 1: circumstances graduating him. Number two is you hear an African
Speaker 1: American kid in New York, which is the majority of
Speaker 1: our kids, and they tended to be in the in
Speaker 1: the worst performing schools. Your chances of going to a
Speaker 1: high performing school from the time I was mayor to
Speaker 1: about now went up three hundred percent um. The overall
Speaker 1: performance in the New York school system on reading, math
Speaker 1: went up double digit percentages. Our graduation rate went up
Speaker 1: double digit percentages. So you know, in terms of a
Speaker 1: school system a very short period of time giving parents
Speaker 1: incredibly quigh quality options. In fact, as the studies have
Speaker 1: shown better options and most inner city public schools have uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's been ridiculously successful. We still have work to do.
Speaker 1: But the supercharged success of our schools, especially that one
Speaker 1: ind cey about more likely now if you're black and
Speaker 1: Newark to go to a high performing school, is pretty dramatic.
Speaker 1: But New York charter schools outperformed district schools. And I'm
Speaker 1: just curious why there's so much controversy about charter schools
Speaker 1: within the Democratic Party. Largely because of teachers unions. Well
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say largely because of only teachers unions, but
Speaker 1: that's a big factor, a big factor. But let's let's
Speaker 1: try to separate the critics from the criticism. So I
Speaker 1: will join people in criticizing charter schools if they are
Speaker 1: endangering public schools, if they are creaming the best students, um,
Speaker 1: if they are not held to the same standards of
Speaker 1: performance as traditional district schools. So I always say, let's
Speaker 1: filter out the the critics and just look at really
Speaker 1: what we want. Like if if a charter school moved
Speaker 1: into a rural area, you've gotta be kidding me. Like
Speaker 1: Heidi hide Camp and Tester, we talked about this all
Speaker 1: the time. It just wouldn't work and it would endanger
Speaker 1: the system that's there um um. So, So there are
Speaker 1: legitimate criticisms in general of charter schools, and that's why
Speaker 1: in Newark we try to do things a different way,
Speaker 1: creating a one enrollment plan so you're not creaming people, um,
Speaker 1: trying to appropriately finance our school system, which is always
Speaker 1: a battle, especially with a Republican governor, so that you're
Speaker 1: not in any way creating a lack of equity and
Speaker 1: funding a lot of things. I think that you can
Speaker 1: do in an environment like Newark where charter schools can work.
Speaker 1: But but charge schools aren't for everywhere, and you have
Speaker 1: to make sure that they're being held to the same standards.
Speaker 1: You emphasize public schools, but why shouldn't poor kids have
Speaker 1: the same opportunity as rich kids to go to a
Speaker 1: private school If that's the right choice for them again.
Speaker 1: I'm one of those few Democrats that says I think
Speaker 1: that we should have a system that doesn't just work
Speaker 1: for the rich and the wealthy. That's why I've supported
Speaker 1: things like the White Fellowship in Newark, which takes under
Speaker 1: the most narrow circumstances. If your chill child is stopped
Speaker 1: in a routinely failing school um and it is poor
Speaker 1: and does not have the ability, I think the public
Speaker 1: should be saying to that this is a crisis of
Speaker 1: monumental proportion in the public should do whatever it can
Speaker 1: to get that child out of that environment. And I
Speaker 1: believe in what you call whatever you want, but a
Speaker 1: rescue package for those children. Do I support charge schools
Speaker 1: and innovation in the right context, in the right environment,
Speaker 1: as we've seen in New York, I will fight for them.
Speaker 1: Do I support rescuing kids that are in dropout factories
Speaker 1: and things like that with interventions. Absolutely, But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, we can never as a country
Speaker 1: abandon this idea of great public schools for every child.
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of issues we want to
Speaker 1: hit and we have very limited time in which to
Speaker 1: do it. But you mentioned mass incarceration earlier. I know
Speaker 1: you're very passionate about this issue. It's a major problem
Speaker 1: in this country. And this was supposed to be the
Speaker 1: one thing that could get done last year on a
Speaker 1: bipartisan basis. Uh, it failed, Senator Booker and ran Paul
Speaker 1: together using the Senate No, it's one of my earliest
Speaker 1: thing they're used in the Senate, and it failed in
Speaker 1: part because of h then Senator Jeff Sessions leading the
Speaker 1: opposition to it. Why didn't that legislation come together? And
Speaker 1: what are its prospects now? So, first of all, it
Speaker 1: as a guy who's now closing in October my full
Speaker 1: four years in the Senate, Um, there's no better journey
Speaker 1: that I've seen so far than me coming into the
Speaker 1: Senate and hearing Chuck Grassley going to the floor and
Speaker 1: speaking against the innovations and reforms that I wanted to
Speaker 1: overtime becoming a partner of mine and other Democrats in
Speaker 1: a very ambitious and progressive bill that actually got out
Speaker 1: of the Judiciary Committee with bipartisan votes and almost as
Speaker 1: if it got votes on the floor, it would have
Speaker 1: gotten eight plus votes. And so yeah, as as older
Speaker 1: senators or senators have been here longer, put their arm
Speaker 1: around me and say, look, sometimes it takes two or
Speaker 1: three Congresses to get something done. Don't give up on this.
Speaker 1: And not only haven't I given up, but we're pushing
Speaker 1: more legislation. Legislation focused on women in prison because folks
Speaker 1: don't know that about eight percent of the women in
Speaker 1: prison are survivors of sexual trauma sexual abuse, and we
Speaker 1: put them in more trauma when we put them in prison.
Speaker 1: We focused on marijuana, which you gratefully interviewed Rand Paul
Speaker 1: and Iana. But that coalition has expanded now more Republicans,
Speaker 1: more Democrats jumping on to reform a marijuana laws again
Speaker 1: most Americans. The reason why injustice is often fester because
Speaker 1: most Americans don't realize it. So we have people that
Speaker 1: have lost their voting rights for a lifetime. One out
Speaker 1: of five African Americans in Florida cannot vote because of
Speaker 1: felony disenfranchisement. And many of them were for doing things
Speaker 1: two of the last three presidents admitted to doing Remember
Speaker 1: Bush and Obama. It wasn't smoking a little bit of marijuana,
Speaker 1: It was felony drug possession of drugs more serious than
Speaker 1: than marijuana. So here we have this hip ypocrisy in
Speaker 1: our country where if your privileged kid going to a
Speaker 1: fancy college, go ahead and experiment all you want. I've
Speaker 1: sat in this body in Congress listening to colleagues joking
Speaker 1: about the laws that they've broken, broke, but they were
Speaker 1: privileged people. They didn't have to worry about it. They
Speaker 1: could flaunt the law. Meanwhile, if you're that seventeen year
Speaker 1: old kid who's walking home gets caught with a little
Speaker 1: bit of drugs, you're done because not only do you
Speaker 1: get arrested, now we stack mandatory minimums. I've had children
Speaker 1: sitting in my office pleading with me about their stories
Speaker 1: to do something about the fact that the prosecutors said
Speaker 1: to them. And by the way, we don't have juries
Speaker 1: and and and judges and trials anymore. Of our criminal
Speaker 1: convictions are done by plea bargain. Because if you, Katie,
Speaker 1: without seventeen year old kids sitting in my in my prosecutor,
Speaker 1: I can say, look, I'm gonna move to adult court.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stack your charges. You're gonna face fifteen years
Speaker 1: for your nonviolent crimes. Or you can plead guilty. Now
Speaker 1: you can get out. I get a win, you get
Speaker 1: a felony charge. Now you can't get a job, you
Speaker 1: can't get a pell grant, you can't get business licenses,
Speaker 1: you can't vote done. And what does that seven year
Speaker 1: old think? Now he probably his public schools probably didn't
Speaker 1: serve him, doesn't have that greade of an education. Now
Speaker 1: he's a criminal charge. What is the likelihood that they're
Speaker 1: going to recentervate and get and get back into trouble
Speaker 1: again because we're not empowering them to succeed. That's the
Speaker 1: system we have right now. It's broken in so many
Speaker 1: different ways, and it's stacked against poor people, mentally ill people,
Speaker 1: addicted people, women, people of color. And so this is
Speaker 1: the fight for me, is taking on this system in
Speaker 1: every single way. And I was relentless when I was
Speaker 1: running for this office. I didn't care if you put
Speaker 1: me through the wealthiest community in New Jersey, of the
Speaker 1: poorest community Jersey. I was talking about this issue even
Speaker 1: though it didn't pull. It's one of the top concerns
Speaker 1: of my my state. It is one of the biggest
Speaker 1: cancers on the soul of this country and is costing
Speaker 1: us so much money. From the time I was in
Speaker 1: law school to the time I was mayor of the
Speaker 1: City of New York. We were building a new prison
Speaker 1: every ten days in this country. And so if you
Speaker 1: don't think this mass incarceration, the fact that we have
Speaker 1: one out of every foreign carcerated people on the planet Earth,
Speaker 1: the major already them for nonviolent crimes. If you don't
Speaker 1: think that's hurting us as Americans with the depth that
Speaker 1: we have, you're crazy and it's making us less safe,
Speaker 1: not more. Let's do our quick lightning round because I
Speaker 1: know we have to catch a train going back to
Speaker 1: New York. And you've been so generous with your time.
Speaker 1: I was late because of the protest. That's okay, It's
Speaker 1: a real treat just to have this conversation. Um, just
Speaker 1: just quick answers if you will Donald Trump discuss I
Speaker 1: just mean, what do you make of him and his presidency?
Speaker 1: Because every day there seems to be a new event
Speaker 1: that's causing consternation, National consternation, which kind of sounds like constipation.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it's maybe it's a little bit
Speaker 1: of both metaphorically. Um, Look, I think the thing that
Speaker 1: offends me the most about this presidency, Um, if a
Speaker 1: Republican one day would be pushing policies that I fundamentally
Speaker 1: disagree with and that would have been a battle Royale,
Speaker 1: and I would be upset about that. But I think
Speaker 1: what is making this presidency is so difficult for me,
Speaker 1: for my Republicans in the Senate colleagues, um, is that
Speaker 1: this guy is so trashing the norms, the dignity of
Speaker 1: the office as he trashes Americans. I mean, here's a
Speaker 1: guy that's more upset about north Strom's dropping his daughter
Speaker 1: tweeting about that than he is about the Russians invading
Speaker 1: our attacking our elections, which he still doubts, he doubts
Speaker 1: the conclusions, which Scaramucci, the new Communications Directors, said that
Speaker 1: he's still doubted the conclusion of these agencies. But then
Speaker 1: that is what he's doing, is continuing to undermine institutions
Speaker 1: in our country, whether it's the press, attacking the press,
Speaker 1: our First Amendment ideas. Every single week it seems, um
Speaker 1: he is attacking our intelligence agencies as as a candidate,
Speaker 1: he attacked our military. I know more about this than
Speaker 1: the General's. The guy that was going to have a
Speaker 1: plan to end isis in his first whatever days the
Speaker 1: Russian when I talked to the first time, I sat
Speaker 1: down with the ambassadors from Latvia, Lithuanian Estonia. These are
Speaker 1: Baltic nations that border the Soviet Union, and they were saying,
Speaker 1: excuse me, god, flashback. I'm not that old. I was
Speaker 1: still in high school when we had we had this
Speaker 1: old union, um. But they border the Russians, and their
Speaker 1: warnings to us almost like the chickens coming home to roosts,
Speaker 1: like you weren't taking us seriously when we were telling
Speaker 1: you that the Russians are seeking to undermine Western democracy.
Speaker 1: And everybody I talked to in Eastern Europe when I
Speaker 1: was there, said you all need to wake up. This
Speaker 1: is how the Russians do what they call a hybrid war.
Speaker 1: Not only is your physical content conflict, but then they
Speaker 1: take us on with propaganda, with cyber attacks, trying to
Speaker 1: get people to lose faith in their and the and
Speaker 1: the information they're getting from the press, lose faith in
Speaker 1: democratic institutions, lose faith in the electoral process itself. And so,
Speaker 1: if anything, the president's rhetoric is complicit in what our
Speaker 1: what our adversaries are trying to do undermine our faith
Speaker 1: in democracy. We can our election system, we can our
Speaker 1: free press, and we can the very institutions that he
Speaker 1: represents as president that include everything from the military to
Speaker 1: the intelligence. Isn't Mr Yale Law School? Can the president
Speaker 1: pardon himself, pardon his family, pardon his associates, and fire
Speaker 1: Bob Mueller? So this is this is and I just
Speaker 1: wanted to take one step back on that question because
Speaker 1: this is why I came down here with a big afro,
Speaker 1: pull all my pulled all my hair out, Thank you
Speaker 1: very much. You should have seen his afro. I never
Speaker 1: thought I would be sitting in interviews and it would
Speaker 1: come a day where questions like that would be asked,
Speaker 1: like with a straight face, like like the fact that
Speaker 1: we are sitting here as Americans and wondering if a
Speaker 1: president can preemptively pardon himself for serious crimes is to
Speaker 1: me astonishing. So if it's proven, people, the question is
Speaker 1: is can the president preemptively pardon himself and pardon his
Speaker 1: is or not even preemptively pardon himself if it's proven,
Speaker 1: pardon the people in his senior staff. This is a
Speaker 1: frightening moment for America that we have serious questions like
Speaker 1: this being asked. It was actually frightening to me. All
Speaker 1: the accusing accusations of collusion, you know, they were denying.
Speaker 1: People are saying, for me, it was like a lot
Speaker 1: of political noise. But when I read an email, we're
Speaker 1: literally people are saying a foreign government wants to cooperate
Speaker 1: with your campaign to beat your opponent. And Donald Trump Jr. Says,
Speaker 1: if this is real, I love it. That alone, when
Speaker 1: that email came forward. I can't tell you what their
Speaker 1: public statements were, but the conversations around this place were
Speaker 1: just stunned that you literally have a smoking gun of
Speaker 1: the intention of Donald Trump's most senior advisors seeking to
Speaker 1: colude with the Russians. To even go to that email
Speaker 1: itself should have been turned over, and then they all
Speaker 1: went to the meeting, and they all went to meeting.
Speaker 1: But do you think the patriotism do you think the
Speaker 1: trip drip drip has in fact somewhat normalized this because
Speaker 1: it comes so frequently and so often, it seems as
Speaker 1: if there's a kind of an explosion and then it dissipates.
Speaker 1: I've become comfortably numb. Um. No, I am not no,
Speaker 1: But I don't mean for you necessarily, I just mean
Speaker 1: for the public at large. Um, do you think at
Speaker 1: some point they're just being They're so a wash? In
Speaker 1: scandal that nothing sticks, and that's how I know that's
Speaker 1: not true. The public at multiple points has stopped bad
Speaker 1: things from happening more than I have as a Senator. So,
Speaker 1: whether it's the independent ethics overside of the House that
Speaker 1: was shut down by public outrage, Version one of the
Speaker 1: House Healthcare Bill shut down by public outrage, uh, the
Speaker 1: version one of the Muslim ban. I mean I watched
Speaker 1: one of my greatest moments as an American was witnessing
Speaker 1: out of Dallas Airport all of these people chanting and
Speaker 1: cheering as Muslim families that weren't even necessarily American citizens.
Speaker 1: Watching people with yamicas on showing their true faith and
Speaker 1: cheering people coming out of that airport reminds me of
Speaker 1: the story from the Bible and the Torah of of
Speaker 1: of Abraham sitting there in pain and watching strangers come
Speaker 1: and he runs to them joyously and welcomes them. I
Speaker 1: mean that this is us living our values. The Women's March.
Speaker 1: I sat down in New Jersey recently with four incredible
Speaker 1: women activists who weren't involved before but have been awoken
Speaker 1: by this crisis. So I'm seeing the best of America.
Speaker 1: It's just like Mr Virginia Jones. Hope is a response
Speaker 1: to despair, and they're not letting despair win. They're showing
Speaker 1: their patriotism, showing their their power by engaging now like
Speaker 1: they never have before. We're almost out of time, but
Speaker 1: we have to ask Corey, don't we Bryan about running
Speaker 1: for president? Well, I'm running from the president. If you
Speaker 1: haven't heard already, I'm like, out of here. Do you
Speaker 1: rule out running for president? In so let me tell
Speaker 1: you a horrible confession. But it's out there in the
Speaker 1: public already. But but I but I've never said on
Speaker 1: a podcast before. Well, look, I was mayor and I
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out what to do next. You know,
Speaker 1: run for re election for a third term, run for governor. Uh,
Speaker 1: run for my life and get that out of politics.
Speaker 1: And one of my guy who has never let reporters
Speaker 1: be your friend. That's why Katie is such a threat
Speaker 1: to me. But Tom Moran is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: journalists in America, and he's just hanging in the end.
Speaker 1: It's always bad at the end of an interview, when
Speaker 1: you're really comfortable, you start joking. He goes, what about Senate?
Speaker 1: Would you ever run for Senate? And I unfortunately said
Speaker 1: if I ever run for Senate, please stop me. And
Speaker 1: I invited him to do violence to me, um in
Speaker 1: a very grotesque way that I regret um doing. And
Speaker 1: everybody can google and everybody and anyway, anyway, I didn't
Speaker 1: say off the record. And he you know, this is
Speaker 1: why Tom I have You're still friends. I have a
Speaker 1: love hate relationship with him. So because of course, what
Speaker 1: did he roll out when I finally decided to run
Speaker 1: for senate and which I could not have envisioned. Um,
Speaker 1: he didn't do to you what you suggested. He he
Speaker 1: did not do to me. But he did expose me
Speaker 1: for saying such a dramatic thing that never that I
Speaker 1: would never enough preamble. You're filibust. I cannot see it.
Speaker 1: I'm very intent on trying to earn a real in
Speaker 1: New Jersey when I am Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's
Speaker 1: gonna be a very tough campaign for you. No, in
Speaker 1: your quiet moments of self reflection, yes, do you think
Speaker 1: about I try to empty my thoughts when i'm meditating.
Speaker 1: That's what I do. But the power off, Okay, after
Speaker 1: you're meditating, after you're done meditating. And he's a vegan too,
Speaker 1: so he's probably just meditating about how much he misses
Speaker 1: he doesn't a vegan meditator in the White House. Are
Speaker 1: you still a vegan? I am still a vegan and
Speaker 1: a lifetime vegan. It's a middle lifetime digress digressed. So
Speaker 1: are there any circumstances under which you would say, you
Speaker 1: know what, I feel a patriotic duty two to change,
Speaker 1: to work on all these issues in a way that
Speaker 1: I have so much power I can really really change.
Speaker 1: I will make you a deal right now, I'll make news.
Speaker 1: If you run for president, I will run as your
Speaker 1: vice president. Just like right, it was just like you
Speaker 1: literally had a physical reactions. Okay, he's not going to
Speaker 1: answer the question, the question see myself running for president? Okay,
Speaker 1: right now. Well, Corey Booker, Senator Booker, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for giving us so much time and for inviting
Speaker 1: us into your little hideaway, which is your secret office
Speaker 1: that people have here on Capitol Hill. I'm sorry there
Speaker 1: is not a full bar here um because because apparently
Speaker 1: some of the more senior members do, they're kind of
Speaker 1: tricked out with a whole bar situation. But the cafe
Speaker 1: car the Acela, I've definitely visited that a time, so
Speaker 1: we're looking forward to that if we make our train
Speaker 1: for lunch dinner. Sorry Booker, thank you. Yeah, we better
Speaker 1: get the heck out of Dodge, Thank you, Thank you both.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys being so patient too. As usual,
Speaker 1: you want to thank our intrepid production team, including our
Speaker 1: producer Gianna Palmer, our audio engineer Jared O'Connell. Thanks also
Speaker 1: to Emily Vina of Katie Curic Media That Behemoth and
Speaker 1: Nora Richie for her production assistance. Alison Bresnik makes things
Speaker 1: happen for social media and we thank her for that,
Speaker 1: and thank you as always Mark Phillips for our theme music.
Speaker 1: Katie and I are the executive producers of this podcast
Speaker 1: and everybody, don't be a stranger. Email us at comments
Speaker 1: at current podcast dot com or leave us a voicemail
Speaker 1: at nine to two four four six three seven. We
Speaker 1: love getting your messages, honestly, they truly make our day.
Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media anytime, at
Speaker 1: all hours of the night. When it comes to me,
Speaker 1: I'm Katie Curic on Twitter and Instagram and Katie Curic
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Speaker 1: Brian on Twitter at Goldsmith B. Now, if you've listen
Speaker 1: this far, hopefully you've liked what you've heard, So let's
Speaker 1: the good people at Apple podcast note by rating and
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Speaker 1: keep Hope alive. Everybody, please subscribe as well. Anyway, Thank
Speaker 1: you as always for listening. Thank you very much, And
Speaker 1: from somewhere en route from DC to New York, where
Speaker 1: I just ate a hot dog that's giving me serious
Speaker 1: acid indigestion. T m I, Tom's Anyone Audios. Bye,