1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Dulin, and 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: I want to just throw this out. At the beginning 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: of this episode, we are about to talk about l 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: s D, about asset, about psychedelic experiences, and uh, I 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: just want to go ahead and at the front of 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the podcast just remindered everybody, Uh, you know, don't do drugs, kids, 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: use common sense and uh, and don't take anything we're 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: about to to discuss as a mandate to go and 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: try any of these powerful substances exactly. This is just 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: an exploration of some of the byproduct experiences that one 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: has with LSD or what has been reported. So again, 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: it's just an exploration of the how and the why 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: of LSD and flashbacks. Yes, that being said, it's not 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: the first time we've covered psychedelic experiences on the podcast. 17 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: We've talked about Timothy Leary before, We've talked about John C. Lily, 18 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: and we did two episodes The Scientists and the Shaman 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: about scientific research related to uh, psychedelic substances. Yeah, I mean, 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: there is resurgence really in hallucinogenic drugs right now, because 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: there there is a very good amount of information that 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: tells us that they can be used in a medical 23 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: setting for for various things. And again, if you're interested 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: in exploring that, check out the scientists and the shaman. Um. 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: I believe that's information is in there. But today we're 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: going to talk about really the idea of the LSD 27 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: experience in flashbacks and whether or not flashbacks really exist. 28 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: And uh, of course I'm talking about tabs, trips, white lighting, 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: and window panes, and I'm talking about school assemblies because 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: school assemblies. Yeah, I don't know any of these terms. No, 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: I mean school assemblies in this sense that these institutions 32 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: help to keep some key acid flashback urban legends alive 33 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: throughout the generations until they could be properly adopted by 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: the Internet. Oh yeah, I see. The first thing that 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: at that school assemblies was slang for LSD or something, 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: because it should be, because a lot of what we're 37 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: talking about is in that gray area of of recreational 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: drug use, of counterculture drug use, and uh, and that 39 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: that alone is kind of a breeding ground for for 40 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: ghost stories about experiences. Oh, I have a buddy and 41 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: he knows this guy who once did such and such, 42 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, and there's some sort of wild story. And 43 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: then to your point, to school assemblies uh and anti 44 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: drug messaging often pick up on these ghost stories or 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: sort of fabricate their own scare stories about the horrors 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: of drugs. And you know, as is generally the case 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: with this sort of thing, the truth is is not 48 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: is not quite on either side of that, it is 49 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: somewhere in between. Yeah. I think a classic example of 50 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: this is the Orange juice Man. Yes, okay, so we're 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: talking about a's a I who's smuggling what like a 52 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: hundred tabs of acid. Yeah, and some some guy a 53 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: friend of mine knows the guy right right, Yeah, he was. 54 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: He was in Canada. He's about to crush the border. Um. 55 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: He had them strapped to his body and they started 56 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: question him. They put him in this room and he 57 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: got like super freaked down and started sweating, and then 58 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: he started absorbing the tabs of acid and then he 59 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: thought he was an orange and he started to peel himself. 60 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: WHOA for the rest of his life. Yeah. There there 61 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: are variations on this too, where he where it will 62 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: be a somebody who is again either has it strapped 63 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: to his body or he's about to get busted. So 64 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: he eats an entire sheet of acid and uh and 65 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: for those of you aren't familiar, like a sheet of acid, 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: it's like like little pieces of paper with little drops, 67 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: little little blots of this substance on it. So in 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: this variation on the urban legend, he eats all this 69 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: entire sheet of acid. Uh, just trips his mind out 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: and suddenly believes that he is a glass of orange juice, 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: and for the rest of his life sets there, presumably 72 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: in a padded cell somewhere, believing only that he is 73 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: a glass of orange juice. Now, when I heard this 74 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: story as as a tender youth in uh, Michigan, it 75 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: was a girl, some girl who you know, we didn't 76 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: have the specific name, but someone in our community who 77 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: took all this acid and tried to peel herself as 78 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: an orange. I see the peeling yourself like that one 79 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: has that kind of grizzly level to it, which is 80 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: which is kind of horrifying and scary. But I think 81 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: I actually like the orange juice one better because that 82 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: one is all it's a little less grizzly, it's like 83 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: it's a little less on the surface frightening, Like it's 84 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: not one of those like PCP peel your face off 85 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: and feeded to a dog kind of stories, But it 86 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: has a subtle horror to it that is that is 87 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: still effective because it gets down to what a lot 88 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: of the fears with acid are. A lot of the 89 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: fears around psychedelics is that I will take something and 90 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: it will change who I am. It will change who 91 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: I and how I experienced the world forever. It'll break 92 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: my brain and therefore break my universe, because what is 93 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: the universe but my uh, my conscious experience of it. Yeah, yeah, 94 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: I was what I'm saying. That plays into this whole 95 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: idea that you could permanently break your brain, which is 96 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: another urban myth that comes up from this idea that 97 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: seven times a charm, right, Like if you take acid 98 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: seven times, after that you are insane. Yeah, which again 99 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: that's just there's no nothing scientifically or legally to back 100 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: that up. It's just something that people said. Another one 101 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,559 Speaker 1: staring at the sun. A bunch of hippies did acid 102 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: once and they all looked up at the sun till 103 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: their eyes burned out of their heads. I love that 104 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: one because this was a story that was picked up 105 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: by California newspapers in nineteen sixty seven, so it appeared 106 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: a couple of times in print about four students who 107 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: sustained permanent damage their corneas were just fried to a 108 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: crisp after they couldn't look away from the sun because 109 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: they were so incapacitated. And it was also backed up 110 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: by a mysterious spokesman for the Santa Barbara Optimological Society. 111 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: Now there's another case we do have to mention, and 112 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: this one is a much darker one because this one 113 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: does involve an actual death, uh, specifically the death of 114 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: Diane link Letter, Uh, the daughter of the famous Art 115 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: link Letter who his talk shows and specifically, kids say 116 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: the darnist thing that was one of his you know, uh, 117 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: the original kids say, they're understand that was kind of 118 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: his his big show. His daughter tragically died October ninety nine, 119 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: twenty years old, jumped out of a window. Felloward death, 120 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: and there has never been any direct evidence connecting LSD 121 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: to her death. A person present during the event made 122 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: no mention of LSD. The police toxological tests performed on 123 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: the body UH didn't show drugs in the system. But 124 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: Art link Letter became a very vocal opponent of LSD, 125 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: very outspoken about it, and he claimed that LSD had 126 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: caused her death and later that LSD flashbacks led to 127 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: her suicide. Yeah, and so this is this very great 128 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: area that we're going to enter into today about LSD 129 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: use and flashbacks, because you don't know what her psychological 130 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: state was before after the use of LSD. And also 131 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: this idea that flashbacks could have influenced her decision runs 132 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: counter to some of the information we have on how 133 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: LSD is metabolized by the body. And we'll get more 134 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: into that. And and I don't want to vilify the 135 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: late Arn't link Letter at all because obviously a very 136 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: tragic event happened in his life here. And I think 137 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: it's just human nature too. You want to know the 138 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: reason for it. And if you can put up put 139 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: the blame on something like ls D, you know, or 140 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: the culture surrounding it, I mean, that's that's understandable. Sure. 141 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: And you have to think about all the media at 142 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: that time. Tom you just have this, you had re 143 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: for madness, you have all these You've had the stories 144 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: of people burning out their eyes, and and the danger 145 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: in general of of of hippie culture and hippie counterculture, which, 146 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: if you think about it, it must have been super 147 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: terrifying for people at that time because they came out 148 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: of the team fifties, right, everybody's still wearing suits all 149 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: the time, and all of a sudden they turned around 150 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: and people are growing their hair out along and listen 151 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: to crazy music. I mean it must have been terrifying 152 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: to people who had lived their life in a certain 153 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: way and had known nothing else. Yeah. I mean, of course, 154 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: on one level, I mean, it's always no country for 155 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: old man, you know, it's like the older always going 156 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: to be frightened, terrified and threatened by the youth and 157 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: the things that they're into. But but yeah, particularly for 158 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: that time, there was this tide of change and and 159 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: and drastically different values that seemed to be be coming 160 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: at them. Um, rapidan, the rapid changes. Yeah, and so 161 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: and then you have you have this LSD, which is 162 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: we're about to discuss. They've been around for a while, 163 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: but it's really making uh, making its power known. At 164 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: the time, Um, and you had all these scare stories 165 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: that were out there, some misinformation, some some correct imforma. 166 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: I mean, at the very heart of it, kids were 167 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: taking this and seeing things, experiencing things, experiencing an altered 168 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 1: state of consciousness, and and that alone, you know, you 169 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: can see where that would would be threatening. Now, another 170 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: bit of urban legend misinformation about the LSD that was 171 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: making the rounds of the time and continues to make 172 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: the rounds today, is the idea that you take l 173 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: s D and it's gonna have its effects on your 174 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: in your mind, but then it's gonna a little bit 175 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: of that LSD is gonna get stored away in your 176 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: spine or in a fatty tissue, and then later, uh 177 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, maybe months, maybe years even uh, this uh, 178 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: this LSD, this stored LSD will reactivate and suddenly you're 179 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: having this crazy flashback and you're you're you know, and 180 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: you're may not be at a music concert at this 181 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: point in your life. Maybe you're changing a diaper, driving 182 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: a car, and suddenly you're in in mortal danger. Um. 183 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: But that is not the case, and we're gonna talk 184 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: about why it's not. So let's take a closer look 185 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: at LSD or life. Sergic acid die ethel IMiD. Yes, now, 186 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: hallucinagens have been around for ages and ages and ages, 187 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: dating back all the way through human history. But LSD 188 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: is semisynthetic, so we didn't have this until the nineteen thirties. 189 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: All right, So let's look back to nineteen thirties. Swiss 190 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: chemist Albert Hoffman. He's studying the compound lesurgic acid, which 191 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: is derived from ergotamine, which is in turn derived from 192 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: a parasitic fungus called arrogate that grows on a rye. Now, 193 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: he first synthesized lesergic acid diethyl IMiD or l s 194 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: D back in night and he was looking into it 195 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: because he thought it might stimulate breathing and circulation, and 196 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: he thought it would have very you know, important but 197 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: but not crazy clinical purpose potential. But the test didn't 198 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: show anything special, so he just, uh, he just set 199 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: it aside and the company was looking for working for 200 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: sandas they abandoned further study as well. Five years later, 201 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: he's he's thinking about it again. He's like, oh, I'm 202 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: gonna look at that that compound again and see if 203 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: there's you know, see if there's something there, because you know, 204 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: I feel like there's some potential. So he goes back 205 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: and he's brewing up a new batch of last e 206 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: uh for to look at some more, and he starts 207 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: to begin strained, to begin to feel strange, all right, uh. 208 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: He he described it as a remarkable restlessness combined with 209 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: a slight dizziness. And while at home he was in 210 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: a quote dream like state and perceived an uninterrupted stream 211 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense kaleidoscopic play of colors. 212 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: So uh, having a scientific mind, he decided, well, I'm 213 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: gonna look at this a little closer, you know, you know, 214 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: getting closer for a closer look at the at what's 215 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: happening to me. So he took two hundred and fifty 216 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: micrograms that's ten times more than the typical minimum dose 217 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: of elity today and became delirious, couldn't speak, And so 218 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: initially he's panicking and he's he's asking his laboratory assistant 219 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: to call it doctor. The doctor can't find anything wrong 220 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: with him, other than the fact that his pupils are dilated. 221 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: He had normal blood pressure, heart rate, respiration. But soon 222 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: this panic goes away and he starts feeling the sense 223 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: of euphoria and again he's seemed beautiful shapes and colors, 224 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: and so ls DO was born. It made its rounds 225 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: through through you know, clinical explorations, but then eventually bleeds 226 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: out into recreational use in the decades to follow. Yeah, 227 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: we really see timke Larry picking this up right. He's 228 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: taking it essentially at first in a medical setting and 229 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: then taking it outside and saying, hey, let's blow open 230 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: the doors of perception with this, and uh, let's I'll 231 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: try to get into an altered state and access different 232 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: experiences of life. So real quickly, let's run down physical 233 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: effects and physiological effects. We're talking about increased heart rate, 234 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: increased blood pressure, dilated pupils, sweating, loss of appetite, sleeplessness, 235 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: dry mouth, drommer's speech difficulties, and pilo erection. That is, 236 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: by the way, goose bumps, Okay, head out of the 237 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: get their physiological effects. Hallucinations of course, increased color perception, 238 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: which I think is interesting because Oliver Sex has talked 239 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: about this time that he was hallucinating. Yes, this is 240 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: this color indigo. I think he was had a classical 241 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: music concert and he had um used LSD and he 242 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: was forever searching for that color. He never found it again. 243 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: I remember him talking about he had a whole cocktail 244 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: of things he took to try and sort of gauge 245 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: his his experience just right to experience and togo. Yeah, yeah, 246 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: But is this elusive color that he never found again 247 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: in this reality that was not colored by hallucinens altered 248 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: mental state, thought disorders, temporary psychosis, delusions, body change or 249 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: excusing body image changes, and impaired depth, time and space perceptions. 250 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: UH users might feel several different emotions at once or 251 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: swing rapidly from one emotion to another. Bad trips may 252 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: consist of severe, terrifying thoughts and feelings, fear of losing 253 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: control and despair. Now it's some of the A lot 254 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: of this sounds like being a toddler. It's like, I 255 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: see these these symptoms my son all the time. What 256 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: is he on? Um? Well, I mean a way he's 257 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: getting hit with all this sensory data for the first time. 258 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: Gotta make sense of it. Maybe that is what it 259 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: feels like, you know, to be a toddler or a 260 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: baby taking and information um Now that the dose is 261 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: metabolized by the body within a day and excrete it 262 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: in the unit and by the way, LSD the effects 263 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: actually begin about thirty minutes after you take it um 264 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: but the actual effects of the chemical will sort to 265 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: taper off as the hours passed, and so they didn't 266 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: tend to be some long hours towards the end. I 267 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: understand where you where one may wish to go to 268 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: sleep and then think they're sleeping, but you're not really 269 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: sleeping because you can't sleep because of the LSD. Right, 270 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: And again, of course it depends on how much you take. 271 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: But because it is so quickly metabolized, there's no trace 272 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: molecules to hang around in the body and eventually be 273 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: stored in fat or in this spine that we know 274 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: for certain. Yeah, it's all gone from the system in 275 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: the twenty four hours, which which of course gets into 276 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: that interesting situation where you can't really test for things 277 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: like LSD in a person's system. You're really only contest 278 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: for things like marijuana. Yeah. So then that brings up 279 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: this idea of flashbacks, which previously had been thought to again, 280 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: as you it said before, been stored in the body 281 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: and like that was the chemical switch that was being 282 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: flipped when people have flashbacks. That is not the case. 283 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: So you have to start to look more towards someone's 284 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: memory of the event or what they perceived and and 285 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: and begin to look at it in that light. Yes, 286 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: now I do want to add one more note here 287 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: about hallucinations. Um, I feel like Hollywood often excuse our 288 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: idea of what an acid trip is because if you're 289 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: like me, if someone you think movie acid trip, you 290 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: probably think if you're in Loathing in Las Vegas, even 291 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: though the various substances are involved in Hunter S. Thompson's 292 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: experience there, but you see like people turning into dinosaurs 293 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: and floors melting, and uh in this idea that you're 294 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: just kind of falling into another world. And generally speaking, 295 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: the hallucinations experienced by individuals on on ls, the they 296 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: know that it's not real. There's not this, there's not this, 297 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: this idea that you're just slipping completely into a dream world. 298 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of it, because for most of us, 299 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: the dream world is the only thing we can really 300 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: think of to compare to it. So we think of 301 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: a dream, we think of being lost in the experience 302 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: of the dream, and we kind of lay that over 303 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: the possibility for psychedelic experience. I remember a friend of 304 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: mine in school, she experienced LSD quite a bit and 305 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: and was interested in looking more into it, and so 306 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: it was not uncommon for her to attend school tripping. 307 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: And I remember one time her being perfectly normal but saying, 308 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, the walls are really moving today. By the way, 309 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: she was an a student all through well because to 310 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: her to your point, but also kind of to her point, 311 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: most of the primary effects here are visual. So it's 312 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: going to be geometric patterns, uh in the walls, it's 313 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: gonna be halos around things. Uh. You look at a 314 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: light and then there's like the light streams this way, 315 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: or you look up at the night sky and everything 316 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: that's black is suddenly red, that sort of thing. So, yeah, 317 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: to your point is primarily visual. People aren't really out 318 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: of their minds. They are in their minds. It's just 319 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: an entirely different experience in their mind. Yeah, and you 320 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: know you have adjust your perception of time. That certainly 321 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: plays into it as well. But but yeah, for the 322 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: most part, we're talking about visual cues. And so when 323 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: we start start talking about flashbacks and the idea of 324 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: an acid flashback, most of what we're talking about is 325 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: going to be kind of visual in nature, but also 326 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 1: there at times a little emotional. Um. If anyone out 327 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: there has been watching the television show True Detective on HBO, 328 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: there's a character on that who experiences flashbacks. Based on 329 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: the information we've been reviewing here, it seems like those 330 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: flashbacks as they're presented in the show match up pretty 331 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: well with what is often reported. So it's not like 332 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: demons bounding out of the walls or anything, but it's 333 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: things like like the light seeming to sort of sne 334 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: are around you, or or a geometric pattern emerging, that 335 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: sort of thing. You're not just stuck in a spiral 336 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: that's of psychedelic colors or Yeah. And it's certainly not 337 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: like the exploitation film of Blue Sunshine where individuals who 338 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: took acid a decade earlier or suddenly turned into bald, 339 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: raving psychotics and started like running all over the place. Um, 340 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: which again that that was a movie that very much 341 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: was exploiting all these scare stories from the previous decade. 342 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: So let's start talking about some of the numbers here 343 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: when we're actually talking about acid flashbacks, because again we're 344 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: getting into that area of of urban folklore, into that 345 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: area of ghost story. Everyone is going to have some 346 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: sort of story about people experiencing flashbacks, but how many 347 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: people really self report having them? How many people actually 348 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: have something that we can clinically call a flashback event? 349 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: So studies carried out in nineteen seventy to claim that 350 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: one in four psychedelic users experienced flashbacks, with fifty seven 351 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: percent experiencing pleasant flashbacks and only eleven percent experiencing very 352 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: frightening flashbacks. Meanwhile, modern psychiatrist Henry David Abraham claims that 353 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: while only five percent of all city users are actually 354 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: experiencing hallucogenic episodes, as many as six of frequent users 355 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: may report some sort of flashback. So we we have 356 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: to end up separating two different things here. One is 357 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: the feeling that you had a flashback or a self 358 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: report of a flashback. Uh that may or may not 359 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: have anything to do with your actual um neural architecture. Again, 360 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: the psychedelic experience is going to be very subjective. Memory 361 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 1: is very subjective, So you're gonna have somebody who claims, well, like, 362 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: you know, an hour after I tripped, I had to 363 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: I saw something kind of weird or I felt something 364 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: kind of weird or a day after I tripped, And indeed, 365 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: most of the flashbacks that are reported are falling in 366 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: that window of time, like the first couple of days 367 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: following the use of the substance, not ten years on 368 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: the line. And psychiatrist John Halpern said that most studies 369 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: don't make clear if other drugs were involved or if 370 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: participants had other psychiatric conditions at the time, So we 371 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: may have some data on it, but it's not clear, 372 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, if if some of this stuff was moving 373 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: the needle a couple of degrees. And there's also the 374 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: question about if it really is a flashback or just 375 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: a provocative memory, because memory is fallible, as we know, 376 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: and you know, you can get an intense sensation sometimes, 377 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: do you call that a flashback? Um? You know, part 378 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: of it is our inability to really define what a 379 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: flashback is. Yeah, because we just if we experienced suddenly 380 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: we're setting on our desk and we remember like a painfully, 381 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: um embarrassing moment from our past and we're kind of like, uh, 382 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: you know, we actually feel the embarrassment in our bodies 383 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: in the you know, in a sense, that's kind of 384 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: a flashback. But there's nothing magical about that there's nothing 385 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: psychedelic about that. But what if you're suddenly remembering the 386 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: time the night sky became dark red? You know, suddenly 387 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: you're adding in that level of of the psychedelic. You're 388 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: adding in that that's script and you have a reason 389 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: for it. You're like, oh, maybe that was an asset flashback. 390 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: Maybe that's that's what that was. And also, again, memory 391 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: is foul will. Every time you take that memory out, 392 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: you're changing it. So over time, you're you're you're you're 393 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: making that even more of a concrete flashback memory. Uh, 394 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: as far as your own experience goes. And uh, it's 395 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: also worth noting that you don't need a psychedelic substance 396 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: to have a flashback. Traumatic or intensely emotional memories have 397 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: a tendency to stick with us in ways that normal 398 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: memories do not. And uh and and uh and certainly 399 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: one can experience an intense traumatic flashback. Uh. You know 400 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: this is part and partial to PTSD. So so these 401 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: aren't due to foreign substances in our brain, but rather 402 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: the effects of experience on our mental state. Okay, now 403 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: another again, you already mentioned how there are other factors 404 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: that can play you know, they are often not recorded. 405 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: What was else was the individual using what was their 406 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: existing mental state, or they predisposed to any kind of 407 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: psychotic episodes or what have you that the that the 408 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: LSD might have triggered. And also we mentioned how long 409 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: LSD tends to make people stay awake. That's another thing. 410 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: If you've if you've taken LSD and you have stayed 411 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: awake all night, you find yourself perhaps a little sleep deprived. 412 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: And that's another thing that can that can experience that 413 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: can affect your experience of the of the real world. Well, 414 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: there's also the aspect of suggestibility, right, because you're talking 415 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: about cebio effect. So if you are um thinking that 416 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: you're going to have these flashbacks, are very possible that 417 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: you may take out some of these memories and examine 418 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: them in that context. Yeah, and if you find yourself 419 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: paranoid about, oh did I just break my brain? That 420 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: was really cool looking? But what kind of harm have 421 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: I done to myself? And then you start looking for 422 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 1: these and uh, altered perception. I mean, that's what the 423 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: whole experience is about. So you've just previously experienced things 424 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: in the world differently than normal. Maybe you've noticed details 425 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: in your surroundings that were not obvious beforehand, and you 426 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: notice those again when you're not tripping. That can lead 427 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: to an interpretation, a self interpretation of a flashback, especially 428 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: if you're slowing down that mental process, right, if you're 429 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: thinking about it in that context and you're really looking 430 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: at the world around you. Yeah, Like think of some 431 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: of these optical illusions we've discussed before, where you just 432 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: look at it, you don't see it, but once you 433 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: see it, you cannot un see it. And so arguably 434 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: some flashback experiences are like that. You know, you've you've 435 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: seen the pattern, the face pattern in the wall, and 436 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: then it's kind of impossible to not see it. But 437 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: that is not necessarily a flashback, is just to call 438 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: back to an altered perception well, and to confuse matters. 439 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes people have psychological breakthroughs, personal breakthroughs in their own 440 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: narrative in the world right, and they see things in 441 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: a different way. They may have more of a true 442 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: with them putting that in quote um that they are 443 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: hooked into. Now. So if that perception of the world 444 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: as well as your your sensory perception is all sort 445 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: of intertwined, then it makes it kind of hard to 446 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: unravel that and see things for what they are. Uh. 447 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: And that being said, though, there is something called the 448 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,400 Speaker 1: hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, and we're gonna take a quick buick. 449 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: When we'll get back, we will explore what that is. 450 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: All right, We're back, and we're going to talk about 451 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: something called hallucination persisting perception disorder hpp D. This is 452 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: a sudden change in perception that occurs in some LSD 453 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: users months or years after the discontinued use. UM. It 454 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: is linked to, of course, persistent LSD use and it 455 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the build up of the 456 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: molecules of LSD in the body. And we've said that before, 457 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: but it bears mentioning again. And we don't underst dan 458 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: exactly what is going on with it, in the same 459 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: way that we don't have the clearest idea of how 460 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: LSD actually works uh in the mind. But people have 461 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: been studying it and uh and it is uh. I mean, 462 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: you could arguably say that this is the true LSD flashback, 463 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: Like we have all of these uh, these ghost stories 464 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: and urban legends, but this is where it actually comes together. Yeah, 465 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: And psychiatrist John Halpern had reviewed a bunch of scientific 466 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: literature on the matter, and he found that most studies 467 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: provided too little information to estimate the actual prevalence of 468 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: hpp D in the population. Now, Henry David Abraham says 469 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: maybe one person twenty will develop serious, continuous problems related 470 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: to the hallucinogenic experience. But he says that's pretty much 471 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: true of any drug use. So again, it's hard to 472 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: figure out where flashbacks begin and hpp D picks up, 473 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: and what exactly, UM defines hpp D. Yeah, but to 474 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: sort of give a sort of basic eye idea, UM, 475 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: one woman he was treating to thirty tabs of LSD 476 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: over the course of a year at age eighteen and 477 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: then went on to have flashback experiences for thirteen years. 478 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: But but then again, you know, you look at other 479 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: famous drug users like Timothy Learry when when he was 480 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: asked about the whole seven times makes you crazy thing. 481 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: I read that he said, well, I've taken it three 482 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: and eleven times, and you know, obviously I'm not crazy. 483 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: Of course that of course, it's it's kind of subjective 484 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: statement too. I'm sure there were people at the time 485 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: and today that would say, well, maybe Timothy Learry was 486 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: a little crazy. Um, but there you go. And some 487 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: of these experiences we're talking about, like trails following moving 488 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: objects a television, like static applied to the field of 489 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: vision and color changes. So this is what we're talking about. 490 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: We're talking about hp p D, And there are a 491 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: couple of different schools of thought here when it comes 492 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: to hpp D. Some people think that it's a kind 493 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: of post traumatic stress that the mind is undergoing, so 494 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: again it's taking out that memory and perhaps reacting to it. 495 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: While others think that the the extensive use of LSD 496 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: may have actually changed the brain's morphology. Yeah, Like, for instance, 497 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: if you're going to look at the post traumatic angle 498 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: on this the fear angle, you could imagine, say someone 499 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: has maybe an aversion of cockroaches anyway, and then they 500 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: see a bunch of cockroaches while they're on LSD, Like 501 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: that could be the kind of traumatic experience and ultimately 502 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: a psychedelic experience that one might have flashbacks too. Yeah, 503 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: And Abraham says that at the core, you know, even 504 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: though we're not entirely sure what HPPD is or how 505 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: it's really acting on the brain, he said that the 506 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: core is in an imbalance within the inhibitory circuits of 507 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: the visual processing system. So again that preoccupation with the 508 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: cockroa which is very much a symbolic representation representation of 509 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: the visual system right right now, the inhibitory circuits of 510 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: the visual processing system. Uh, what does that mean? Right? Uh? 511 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: We talked about the curious way that we see things 512 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: before and how it's not just simply matter of my 513 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: eyeballs or cameras and they in the camera footage goes 514 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: into my brain where there's like a little me that 515 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: watches it on a on a screen. No, the version 516 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: of reality that we see is just a is exactly 517 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: that a version of reality as picked up by these 518 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: these limited side organs and passed onto this limited brain. Yeah, 519 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: because you think about it, there's so much data to 520 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: take in that you kind of have walls up. That's 521 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: the inhibitory circuit is saying, okay, we don't need to 522 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: let everything through here, just what's important. So the idea 523 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: is is that hpp D, you might have some of 524 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: those walls coming down. In other words, you're taking in 525 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: a lot of data in your brain, as we know, 526 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: gets a little overwhelmed sometimes when it has too much data, 527 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: and when it doesn't have enough data, it also tends 528 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: to hallucinate. Right, we have to see things to understand 529 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: the world, but we have to unsee things as well. 530 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: Like right now, I'm looking at you, and I have 531 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: a clear vision of your face. No our producer is 532 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: in the corner of my vision. I do not have 533 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: a clear vision of his face. This changes if I 534 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: look to know, and then changes back if I look 535 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: to you. In the same way, if I look at 536 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: this light, I see the light. I look over here, 537 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: I don't see it as clearly. But if if the 538 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: inhibitory circuits are off, then I may look at this 539 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: light and then look over here, and the light from 540 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: the light comes with me to the next thing I 541 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: look at, and suddenly Noel's face is glowing like an 542 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: angel of the heaven. Yeah, there's a visual constancy that 543 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: we're trying to establish, and there's lots of things that 544 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: can get in the way. That we've talked about Charles 545 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: Bonnet syndrome. We talked about lesions on the brain in 546 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: which the circuits get a bit crossed and the brain 547 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: start to hallucinate. Things we've talked about not even having 548 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: enough auditory stimulation. We talked about this in the episode 549 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: The Quietest Room in the World, in which your brain 550 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: will begin to hallucinate sounds if it doesn't have what 551 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: it needs. So there really is a balance that can 552 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: be tipped pretty easily. Yeah. One of the best analogies 553 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 1: I ran across through this, uh and this was this 554 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: was in the New Yorker article A Trip That Lasts Forever, 555 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: which was about hpp D. UM. They talked about the 556 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: muddled paint brush theory. And this is the idea that 557 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: if the brain is like a paint brush, then h 558 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: p p D appears to make the bristle sticky, and 559 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: this makes old stimuli colors, shapes, and motions muddy the news. 560 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: So again, your brain is seeing things, but it hasn't 561 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: stopped unseeing the thing. It just salt and uh. And 562 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: again this is the this version of it, this and 563 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: this uh, this view of h p p D seems 564 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: to be what they set out to portray when you 565 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: have this character to Matthew McConaughey character Detective rust Coal, uh, 566 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: seeing light sort of bleed through his vision at times. 567 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: Now it is treatable, but there's there's not a lot 568 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: of stuff out there for it. There's a paper called 569 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: Clanaza PAM Treatment of Life Search Acids I have amide 570 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: and douce hallucinogen persisting perception disorder with anxiety features, and 571 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 1: that found that eighteen patients suffering from LSD induced HPPD 572 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: did find relief using clonaze palm over six month period 573 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: in which that drug was administered. So therapy also seems 574 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: to help. But I will tell you one thing that 575 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: does not, and that is cannabis apparently. Yeah, so there 576 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,719 Speaker 1: are certain things that people should not take. All right. 577 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: So there you have it, acid flashbacks, LSD, little information 578 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: about how this works, how we we think it works, 579 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: and some of the various explanations for psychedelic experience and 580 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: uh and these supposed psychedelic flashbacks. Um, if if the 581 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: passes any indication, I'm sure some people will say, oh, 582 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have talked about any of this. This is 583 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: gonna make people want to do drugs. Likewise, some people 584 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: are gonna say, oh, you're scaring people away from trying 585 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: new experiences. But um, but I would I would hope that, Yeah, 586 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: this is kind of a scare story because these are 587 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: powerful substances. We've talked about this before. Uh, whether you're 588 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: talking about acid or or psilocybin in a magic mushroom. 589 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: H these are powerful substances that have an intense effect 590 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: on perceptions of reality, and no matter where you're coming from, 591 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: they definitely should not be considered lightly. So you can 592 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: take the the acid flashback thing as a cautionary tale 593 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: if you like, because Uh, people do experience this and 594 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: it's not always pleasant. Also think it's interesting as another 595 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: viewpoint into the brain and memory and and how we 596 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: consume information and interpret it later on. And I would 597 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: love to see some studies if it's possible that you 598 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: could take um experiences of flashbacks or HPPD and then 599 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: line them up with other hallucinations people have had, whether 600 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: or not Charles Bonnet syndrome or or some other circumstance 601 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: which created a hallucination in the brain, to see if 602 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: there's some sort of thread through all of these. Yeah, 603 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: and uh and and again. Hallucinations occur for a variety 604 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with 605 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: illicit subf sences. Uh. And and again, our perception of 606 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: reality itself is a form of hallucination. Yeah, and I 607 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: was just thinking too. I mean, even something like Stenhall syndrome, 608 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: when you look at a beautiful piece of art and 609 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: you're overwhelmed, and sometimes people see things or they're seeing 610 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: colors in different ways, that is a kind of hallucination. 611 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: In fact, one of the studies I was looking at 612 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: here made a direct comparison between of supposed acid flashbacks 613 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: of definitely of the lighter kind, not full blown hpp 614 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: D experiences, but the sort of lighter shade of acid 615 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: flashback as directly relatable to Stendhall syndrome or Jerusalem syndrome, 616 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: where you're suddenly just overwhelmed by a piece of art 617 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: or an historic landmark and you feel this intense bodily experience. 618 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: And I think if I would wager to bet that 619 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: pretty much everybody has had some sort of it's not 620 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: experience Stenhol or Jerusalem syndrome experience, but some sort of 621 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: overwhelming feeling at one point in their life in which 622 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: they were completely stone cold sober and they had an 623 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: altered state. Um. And I would love to hear from 624 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: you guys about that. It was the one thing. Was 625 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: it a piece of art? Was it just a piece 626 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: of music that puts you into that kind of state. Indeed, 627 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: all right, so you wanna let us know about this, 628 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with us, well, there 629 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: are a number of ways to do it. You will 630 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: not find us on the astral plane, but you will 631 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: find us at Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 632 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: You will find all the podcasts there, you will find 633 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: the videos there. The blog entries pictures of what we 634 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: look like. If you don't know what we look like, 635 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: there are photos there. Because we still get people who 636 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: are like, hey, I didn't know what you look like. 637 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: And if you don't, like you have a very specific 638 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: idea of what we look like, don't go and look 639 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: at those photos. I don't want at least very jarring 640 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: to people it is then, and I don't want to, 641 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: you know, spoil your your imagined idea, because I've mentioned before, 642 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,479 Speaker 1: I hate it when I'm reading a book and it's 643 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: like halfway through that the author mentions that the character 644 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: has a mustache, and I'm like, no, they didn't, they 645 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: didn't have a mustache earlier in the book. If you 646 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: if that character has a mustache, you need to mention 647 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: that page one because other wise I'm going to just 648 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: have to reject your idea that they have a muthtack? 649 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: Are you keeping that mustache by the way, um for now? 650 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: But now it's a nice handlebar. Find us on Facebook, 651 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: find us on Tumbler, find us on Twitter, find us 652 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: on YouTube at mind Stuff Show, follow us there to 653 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: support us and uh, Julie, how can they reach out 654 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: to us with a nice, comforting, personal bit of email 655 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: on the information super Highway, Well, they can drop us 656 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: a line at blow the Mind at discovery dot com 657 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 658 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: it how stuff Works dot com