WEBVTT - Black, White, and Read All Over 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.160 On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:27.760 Friends Media. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:33.920 It's the fourth of July, and you know what that means. Cookouts, 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.280 line dances, fireworks in the day off. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.280 Yes, God, and that's what I love about black folks. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.440 We ain't celebrating America's independence, but we will take that 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:42.960 day off. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.199 I mean. Frederick Douglas said it best. What to the 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.959 slave is the fourth of July. Here's an excerpt from 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:50.400 the speech. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.120 This fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice. 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.480 I must mourn to drag a man in fetters into 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.280 the grand illuminated tim of liberty and call upon him 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.280 to join you in joyous anthems were in human mockery 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.679 and sacrilegious irony. That's one of Douglas's most famous speeches, 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.720 probably because it still captures the feelings of millions of 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:15.920 black Americans today. 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.600 Right. This speech is from eighteen fifty two, and here 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.920 we are in twenty twenty four. You know, Douglas also 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.319 printed the speech in its entirety in his newspaper aptly 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:30.240 titled Frederick Douglas Newspaper on July ninth of the same year. 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.480 I bet the local white newspaper wanted no parts of 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:34.760 that funny. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.640 You should mention that I was curious and I did 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.840 find an article from the same year published by the 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.800 Boston Herald. Want to read a few. 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.919 Lines h before a century shall have elapsed from that declaration, 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.720 we shall not only be the greatest maritime nation upon 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.440 the face of the earth, but we shall exert a 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:58.240 moral power, before which bayonets will dwindle into insignificance and 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.320 scepters become babbles. With the expansion of our country, the 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.400 ideas of our people expand. Railroads are annihilating space, and 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.120 telegraphs are rivaling the lightning and speed. In the mental world, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.600 there is more liberality of opinions, more candor and judgment, 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.200 and more tolerance toward the views of our fellow men 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.200 who The difference between that article and what Douglas wrote 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:29.080 is night and Day, Sleep and Woke, j Lo and Mariah, I'm. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:34.000 Eves and I'm Katie. Today's episode black, White, and red 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:42.000 all over. So looking at those two examples about the 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.840 fourth of July got me thinking, how does coverage of 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.840 the same event or topic differ between black and white 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.520 newspapers Like that can be the only instance of wildly 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.760 different perspectives coming from these newspapers published in the same year, 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.919 same country, covering the same topic. I don't know. I'm 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.519 since in a little pattern, so I think to truly 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.200 understand why we might see a stark difference in the 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.760 coverage in black newspapers versus white newspapers. You got to 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:09.919 know a little sum about a fellow named Jim. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:14.040 Crow him a time I wheel about a young Jim Room. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.680 So following the end of reconstruction in the late nineteenth 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.680 century that Jim Crow era saw the encoding of racial 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:30.720 segregation across the many aspects of American life, including newspapers, newspapers, radio, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.160 All forms of media that were around at that time. 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.880 Why owned and controlled newspapers, radio stations, and other media 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.800 outlets cadded primarily to a white audience, often ignoring or 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.440 misrepresenting the experiences and perspectives of Black Americans. This exclusion 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:47.520 for the mainstream media led to the emergence of a 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:52.840 vibrant black press. Newspapers like the Chicago Defender, the Pittsburgh Courier, 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.200 and the Baltimore Afro Americans served as vital sources of 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.200 news and information for the black community, and these newspapers 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.920 provided perspective and covers that were often absent from white 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.720 owned media. They reported on issues and events that really 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.920 mattered to Black Americans, like the fight for civil rights 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:09.960 and the achievements of the black community. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.000 After the break, we'll see if there's something to this theory. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:25.400 Stick around Exhibit one. Black Power bookstore and. 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.080 Researching pros to the people my book about Black Bookstores. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.560 I looked at a lot of newspapers and discovered some 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.159 colorful characters. One of my favorites was the late Lewis 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.880 Henry Michell, owner of Harlem's National Memorial African Bookstore. Here's Michelle. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:45.599 Black is beautiful, but black isn't power. Knowledge is power. 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.720 For you can be black as a crow, you can 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:52.039 be white as snow. And if you don't know and 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.679 ain't got no do, you can go And that's for show. 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:58.360 Ooh he seems fun. 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.960 Yeah, I really wish I would have known him. Michelle 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.919 is seen as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.159 black booksellers in America. He sold books around the late 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.520 nineteen thirties, early nineteen forties to the mid nineteen seventies. 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.279 Him and his bookstore were known the world over. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.159 So did black and white newspapers write about Michelle and 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.120 the National Memorial African Bookstore. 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.160 Definitely, Michelle stayed in the news more on the black 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.760 side things, of course, but white newspapers wrote about two. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.120 Here's what the Daily Home News in New Brunswick, New 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.240 Jersey had to say about him in nineteen sixty six. 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.279 Ease you mind reading the headline for me? 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:38.240 Black Power bookstore is headquarters for Harlem Bitterness. That's a title. Okay, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:40.640 The word bitter is a strong one. 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.040 Okay, right out the gate. You know what time they're on? 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:45.279 You do so. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.039 Basically, in this article, a white reporter goes to the 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.400 store to profile it and to talk to Michhew. He 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.120 describes the outside of the store, which has a sign 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.680 that says God damn white Man. He describes the inside 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.120 of the store, which is full of flags of New 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.240 African nations and shelves bursting with Negro literature. He calls 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.320 Michew a militant extremist with an almost neurotic contempt for whitey, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.279 and he makes fun of his height, calling him nome size, 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:13.480 which I thought was a nice little touch. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:14.360 It's rude. 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.679 He had a lot of quips about Michelle. He quotes 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.000 a lot of Michell's quips he was known for, like 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.880 the way he talks. He talked in like aphorisms and rhymes. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.720 So he talks about how Michelle said, the good white 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.719 man he met was in the grave and talked about 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.520 Michelle and how the bookstore was focusing on black supremacy. 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.799 He was a perfect kind of sound bite person. This 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.279 article was really funny to me because it has that 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.600 same kind of tone and tenor that so many white 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.560 articles about black spaces do, or white articles about black 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.280 things do, which is one of ogling, which is one 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:54.599 of exoticizing. It's just clearly such an outsider's view of 0:06:55.200 --> 0:07:00.320 surprise and shock and awe of what the writer sees 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.520 when they go into the bookstore and how they feel 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:07.320 about his character. That feels very familiar to me, especially 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:12.120 from contemporary articles from newspapers, And that was really funny 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:12.360 to me. 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.120 Yeah, you can tell who he's speaking to when he's 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.240 writing this article. He's speaking to white people who already 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.520 have their like apprehensions about a black bookstore and what 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.560 might be going on there, and he's really stoking those flames. 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:25.960 And you know, like at the end of the day 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.920 newspapers are there to sell you ads and to make money. 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.800 The information I think is secondary truly, And I think 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.600 this was like a part of a black power series 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.920 where they were talking about different like black power things 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.400 going on. So people following along on this series, like 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.960 they hear about this little known size black supremacists who 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:45.800 said the only good white man he met was in 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:49.680 the grave. Like whatever fears or preconceived notions they have 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.360 are going to be on ten. Like this article does 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.840 not asswage those things at all. But I think that 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:56.920 is the purpose of it. 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.600 And then he starts with the word bitterness, So he's 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.320 automat studying the tone for how you should feel about 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.960 what Michelle is saying in the article. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.200 Yeah, it's definitely at us versus them situation in this article. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.160 So hold that in your mind while we look at 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.760 what black newspapers were saying about Michelle and the National 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.960 African Memorial Bookstore. Here's an article from nineteen sixty two 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:23.120 from New Insterdam News. It's titled Cooperation and Unity away out. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.280 That headline is miles in a way different than the 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.000 last one. Yeah, like the opposite side of the spectrum. 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.720 Yeah, And the coverage was different too. So Michell actually 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.080 wrote this article in the new Insterdam News, which I 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.360 do think is very telling, Like I don't think he 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.599 would be invited to write his own article in a 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.120 white newspaper. And they start off this article that he's written, 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.640 but they give him a bio. They talk about how 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.280 he's the owner and operator of the bookstore for the 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.480 last twenty five years, president of the African Nationals and 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.880 America Incorporated, Chairman of the Harlan Consumer's Committee, so really 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.120 establishing him as a a man in the community doing 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.400 good things and talking about like all his involvement, and 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.240 then it gets into what he has to say, which 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.360 for the last one, I feel like the tone was 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.880 like fear mongering, and the writer in the white newspaper 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.839 was definitely speaking to white audiences. But Michelle, I think 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:18.960 makes it very clear that he's speaking to black audience. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.440 He's like, hey, you, this is what we need to do, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.000 Like I'm a part of this, You're a part of 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.760 this us as black people in America, Like this is 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.160 what we need to do to ensure economic security, to 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.400 uplift each other. So it's definitely a different tone, like 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.559 he's he has his audience and he has his message 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.319 in his bias, but he's not even trying to advertise 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.080 his bookstore. He's just saying like, hey, black man, like, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.760 let's listen up, Yeah, listen to black man, Like, let's 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.480 you know, get together and not be oppressed and you know, 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.840 cooperate and be in unity and community with each other. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.960 So I thought that was really telling of the different 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.800 the newspapers. Yeah, And I think this also has a 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.200 much more personal tone. So I think that also has 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.360 to do with the fact that show is writing it himself, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.760 but that format instead of and Alan is going to 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.880 remove some of the distance between the person who's talking 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:09.760 the person who's reading the newspaper. And I think he 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.360 does this thing in which he drills down from a 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.319 more global perspective, or he uses we in the beginning 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:20.120 much so he's involving people in the conversation. He's not 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.320 necessarily defining that we, but that we definitely includes and 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.280 is focused on black people. And then later on, as 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.000 you continue reading through the article, we can see him 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.280 going more into the eye how he was inspired in 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.280 some of the things that are more personal to him, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.320 and he's talking about when it lay in his bed, 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.520 he has a vision, so we get to see more 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.280 of him who he is as a person, what his 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.800 motivations are, and how those things influence the work that 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.560 he was doing. Which rather than have this very surface 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.480 level perspective that the person had the writer had and 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.319 the other article, in this case, we say we can 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:02.920 see his humanity very clearly, and you can't really make 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:07.640 excuses or do these workarounds around trying to cater or 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.640 trying to influence how people will understand his quotes by 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.199 using words like bitterness. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.520 It's like, we see what his motivations are very clearly. 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.320 Yeah, And I will say it did seem like the 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.319 white reporter actually liked him, you know, it was surprised 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.360 that he's like, oh, this guy's kind of funny. Yeah, 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.920 you know, even though he didn't agree with his messaging, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.280 which I mean, I don't agree with exactly everything he 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.640 says in this article that he wrote himself, but I 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.360 do like that he would always talk about and this 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.120 I just know this on background from researching him. He 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.240 used to work at his brother's church. His brother was 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.840 very well known. His name was Solomon Lightfoot Michelle, very 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.200 well known, like evangelical pastor and had like hit records 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.160 on the radio and stuff, but he loves the church, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.280 saying that he didn't believe in God no more. But 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:52.920 he quote in the Bible like I don't know what. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.160 Always seen that happen with more than one person. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.000 But I mean he talks about like how like poor 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.680 people being taken it. And in the vision that you 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.360 talked about earlier, he said so one night while lying 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.440 in bed, I had a vision when I turned to 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.040 the Bible to two Samuel twelve, chapter A king had 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:12.800 a herd of sheep, and there was a poor man 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.320 with one lamb. The greedy king took the only lamb 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.720 the poor man had and cursed the king. And I mean, 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.920 I don't really know Lewis Michau's financials like that. Like 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.240 I know that he was a very well known bookseller 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.079 and people from all over the world would come to 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.920 the history, So I don't think he was hurting for money. 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.480 So for someone who you know, probably isn't in position 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.400 of like the poorest person in Harlem to kind of 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.680 really advocate for the poor, he talks about how greedy 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.360 people are one hundred and twenty fifth Street, where that's 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.680 the main thoroughfare in Harlem, so I think he was 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.880 really in this article talking about community and wanting to 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.000 uplift the community, all parts of it, not just like 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.120 the talented tenth, but like really trying to uplift people 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:58.559 and kind of have like a more nationalist, cooperative community vibe. 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.560 And that is definitely not the vibe in the way newspaper. 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.920 It's kind of like, even you're speaking to white people, 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.880 you're not really saying like, hey, white people, let us 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.120 like do this for ourselves, but it's kind of like 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:09.160 us versus them. 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.440 In the article written by the white person, there was 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.480 no attempt at understanding. It was just like these are 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.600 the things that I see from the outside. Like there's 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.640 that line where he says, not surprisingly, there are no 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.640 white books and there are only black books in here. Yeah, 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.080 it's not really an attempt to understand the whys behind 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.600 why this exists, or like what the writer's place or 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.560 the white audience's place would be in coming into a 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:35.240 store like this. 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.040 Yeah. And I think that's the thing with black newspapers generally. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.600 They're there as like a counter narrative and to kind 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.840 of like correct the record, like Okay, these white people 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:46.760 are saying these things about us. And it's not true. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:48.959 So we're going to have our own media and we're 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.280 going to say what we know to be true about us. 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.640 And I feel like this comparison really shows that the 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.680 newspaper is like, this is black folks to black folks, 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.680 and we know what's up with us. And I think 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.920 Show shows that perfectly as a bookseller, as a writer, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.360 as a community person, like he's in the streets for 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:08.040 the for the blacks. 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.680 There's another thing about this article that stood out to me, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.040 and that's how we talked about the other title, including 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:17.680 the word bitterness in it, and the title for this 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:21.600 article written by the show. It's peace. It is wonderful 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.000 is a phrase that's in there, and in one of 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.120 the pictures that accompanies the article, it says peaceful scene. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.920 And I wonder if you have any insight our perspective 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:38.760 on this specific articles or black newspapers roles in specifically 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.120 adjusting perspectives of how people think about black people by 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.360 using intentional language by saying, see, look, this is peaceful. 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.000 This is not how other people are trying to portray us, 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.920 where they direct responses to the I'm sure proliferation of 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.200 articles like ones that said this is bitterness look at 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.680 you know, all of these things that black people are 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.240 doing that we should look. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.600 Down upon generally, Yes, I do think so. I think 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.160 it is in response, like you know, if white people 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.200 call it right, we'll call it a uprising. You know, 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.040 if people are protesting, sometimes black newspapers or black people 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.640 will emphasize how peaceful the protests were are, like how 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.600 moral we are for doing this protest, like really trying 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.960 to change the narrative for this was particular instance, him 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:23.200 and Jackie Robinson. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.360 Had beef, so it's not peaceful. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.840 Him and Jackie Robinson had public beef. Jackie Robinson was 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.840 trying to like help some Jewish I believe, restaurant owner. 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.000 So he was boycotting the Jewish restaurant owner and talking 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.920 so much stuff about Jackie Robinson. There's pictures of this 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.480 in the Schomberg and it is so funny, like and 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.480 he is so short, and he's just really in these 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.760 streets like coming after Jackie. But then I think later 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.440 that same day, you know, Malcolm X was in town 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.240 and he was like, hey, brothers, like let's go to 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:52.920 the radio station and talk this out. And so they 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.120 like squashed the beef. So that's what they're talking about 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.360 right there. But I think it is like a separate 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:00.600 because he was just like always in the news, he 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.040 was always doing something, So I do think it's kind 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.360 of like a separate thing. I think the cooperation and unity, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.600 but maybe he was referring to that because he was 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.080 mad that, like the white Jewish people were taking over 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.640 like the hood. Basically, he's like, why are you putting 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.160 a restaurant here when like the a black person should 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:17.800 have a restaurant here, And he is talking about like 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.880 economic stuff and the black buying power and all that. 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:22.920 So maybe it was connected. Maybe that's why he was 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:23.320 writing this. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.440 So after the break, prepare to get your freak on. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:39.520 Say what stay with us? 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.960 Before the break we looked at how differently a black 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.160 newspaper and a white newspaper per tra Lewis Michell and 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.440 his bookstore in Harlem. But now we're taking it back 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.440 down south exhibit too. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:15.960 Freaknick, You've been to Fort Lauderdale, you've been to Panama City, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.720 you've been to Cancun, you've been to Montano Bait. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:19.800 But when you take. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.080 Away the sands, when you take away the water and 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.160 you put all those people on the black stop in. 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:26.000 The Black Mecca. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.240 You get the Black college spring Break. Welcome to Atlanta, 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.320 Hi not Ey something fo the station with hip hop 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.320 list Eaves. 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:37.320 What do you know about freak meeat? 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.320 Well, I know. Freak Nick began in my city, the 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.760 city of Atlanta, and it had to do with college 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.000 students needing to enjoy spring break. It started in the 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.520 late nineteen eighties, I believe, and at first it started 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.480 out as a smaller occasion, but it still had things 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.960 like performances, and they were there to have fun, kind 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.400 of like kick back, enjoy themselves, party a little little bit. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.760 And then it grew into something much bigger and there 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.840 were these big acts and a lot of debauchery happened 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.880 at the events, and a lot of arguments over that debauchery, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.760 and it has lived in fame and infamy since then. 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.840 Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of debauchery, a lot of traffic, 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:26.479 a lot of ass shaking, we smoking, gambling, and as 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.160 we've seen in the last couple of years, a lot 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.439 of documentaries coming out, a lot of people wanting to, 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:36.360 you know, talk about Freaknik, rehash what it was in documentaries, 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.480 radio or podcasts, even books. So yeah, that was Freakniek 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:40.720 for you. 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.680 Are you proud that freaknik is in the spotlight as 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.400 an Atlanta thing? Like this export of Atlanta. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.639 I don't know, since we were too young to like 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.560 be in Freakneek. I guess our parents weren't. But I 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.760 don't think my parents was doing Oh okay, I see them, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.160 But you know what, I do think it is funny 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.320 when you see picture the people who brought their kids 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.040 to freak me, like, I'm not missing out on it. 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.200 It's like, why you got yall two year old here? 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:12.680 Right? Be so for real? 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.679 But yeah, I mean I would say I'm neither proud norish. 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.760 My sister was that age. Ish, she was a little 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:24.560 too young, but she was still around the age like 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:25.960 by the time we got there, because I grew up 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.679 in the early nineties in College Park and so you know, 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:31.399 my sister was in high school at the time, so 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.119 she was closer to that kind of situation. But that 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.160 was definitely a little bit that was before my time 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.120 as well. Yeah, but I knew the stories already from 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.920 a young age. It's part of our I canon here 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.920 growing up in Atlanta, right, like, the stories of it, 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:47.560 no matter how young you were when you were growing 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.080 up in Atlanta. If you were here in the nineties, 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:49.800 you knew about it. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:51.000 Everybody got a story. 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.440 So it seems like everyone also still has an opinion 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.199 about Freakingnick with the multiple documentaries that have been made 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.920 that you were just talking about, and then someone's always 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:00.959 trying to revive it. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.439 So it's no surprise that when it was happening, the 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.439 newspapers were chalk full of criticisms and praises depending on 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.879 the source. The thought of tens of thousands of extra 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.960 Negroes descending upon an already black city did not make 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.520 the white owned newspapers and their majority white readers feel 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.520 all warm and fuzzy inside. In nineteen ninety six, the 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:24.080 Atlanta Journal Constitution published an article in their viewpoint section 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:28.119 which was called Metro Voices. In it, Mitch Scandalacus described 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.320 Freaknick as a quote major problem that's quote bad for 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:37.000 business and causes quote impossible traffic jams that prevent people 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:38.640 from shopping. 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.280 Oh my god, you can't believe it. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.840 Ntch wants to say that clear message Freaknick is not wanted, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.600 but much of his frustration that pesky little issue of 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.600 race keeps coming up whenever he tries to talk about 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:53.560 black college students annual spring break celebration wreaking havoc on 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.120 the city. Mitch says in. 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.840 His article, regrettably, any discussion of Freaknick is almost always 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:03.320 clouded by the issue that clouds far too many discussions 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:07.679 in Atlanta today. Race. But whether you are white or black, 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:11.840 ask yourself this question. If two hundred thousand white college 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.880 students came to Atlanta and behaved exactly the same way 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.159 as the freakingent crowds have behaved over the past few years, 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:20.240 would you want them to come back? 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:23.639 Clock y'all as. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:25.680 What you got to say to that? 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:28.720 Gotcha? 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:29.640 All right? 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.080 Mitch? Okay? We have seen so many people try to 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.040 do this kind of anigland around a question, this kind 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:40.840