1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Friends Media. 3 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: It's the fourth of July, and you know what that means. Cookouts, 4 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: line dances, fireworks in the day off. 5 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: Yes, God, and that's what I love about black folks. 6 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: We ain't celebrating America's independence, but we will take that 7 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: day off. 8 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: I mean. Frederick Douglas said it best. What to the 9 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,959 Speaker 2: slave is the fourth of July. Here's an excerpt from 10 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: the speech. 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: This fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice. 12 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: I must mourn to drag a man in fetters into 13 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: the grand illuminated tim of liberty and call upon him 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: to join you in joyous anthems were in human mockery 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: and sacrilegious irony. That's one of Douglas's most famous speeches, 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: probably because it still captures the feelings of millions of 17 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: black Americans today. 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: Right. This speech is from eighteen fifty two, and here 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: we are in twenty twenty four. You know, Douglas also 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: printed the speech in its entirety in his newspaper aptly 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: titled Frederick Douglas Newspaper on July ninth of the same year. 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: I bet the local white newspaper wanted no parts of 23 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: that funny. 24 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: You should mention that I was curious and I did 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: find an article from the same year published by the 26 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: Boston Herald. Want to read a few. 27 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,919 Speaker 1: Lines h before a century shall have elapsed from that declaration, 28 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: we shall not only be the greatest maritime nation upon 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: the face of the earth, but we shall exert a 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: moral power, before which bayonets will dwindle into insignificance and 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: scepters become babbles. With the expansion of our country, the 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: ideas of our people expand. Railroads are annihilating space, and 33 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: telegraphs are rivaling the lightning and speed. In the mental world, 34 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: there is more liberality of opinions, more candor and judgment, 35 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: and more tolerance toward the views of our fellow men 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: who The difference between that article and what Douglas wrote 37 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: is night and Day, Sleep and Woke, j Lo and Mariah, I'm. 38 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: Eves and I'm Katie. Today's episode black, White, and red 39 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: all over. So looking at those two examples about the 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: fourth of July got me thinking, how does coverage of 41 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: the same event or topic differ between black and white 42 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: newspapers Like that can be the only instance of wildly 43 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: different perspectives coming from these newspapers published in the same year, 44 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: same country, covering the same topic. I don't know. I'm 45 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 2: since in a little pattern, so I think to truly 46 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: understand why we might see a stark difference in the 47 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: coverage in black newspapers versus white newspapers. You got to 48 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 2: know a little sum about a fellow named Jim. 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 3: Crow him a time I wheel about a young Jim Room. 50 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: So following the end of reconstruction in the late nineteenth 51 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: century that Jim Crow era saw the encoding of racial 52 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: segregation across the many aspects of American life, including newspapers, newspapers, radio, 53 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: All forms of media that were around at that time. 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: Why owned and controlled newspapers, radio stations, and other media 55 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: outlets cadded primarily to a white audience, often ignoring or 56 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: misrepresenting the experiences and perspectives of Black Americans. This exclusion 57 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: for the mainstream media led to the emergence of a 58 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: vibrant black press. Newspapers like the Chicago Defender, the Pittsburgh Courier, 59 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: and the Baltimore Afro Americans served as vital sources of 60 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: news and information for the black community, and these newspapers 61 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: provided perspective and covers that were often absent from white 62 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: owned media. They reported on issues and events that really 63 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: mattered to Black Americans, like the fight for civil rights 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: and the achievements of the black community. 65 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: After the break, we'll see if there's something to this theory. 66 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: Stick around Exhibit one. Black Power bookstore and. 67 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: Researching pros to the people my book about Black Bookstores. 68 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: I looked at a lot of newspapers and discovered some 69 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: colorful characters. One of my favorites was the late Lewis 70 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: Henry Michell, owner of Harlem's National Memorial African Bookstore. Here's Michelle. 71 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 4: Black is beautiful, but black isn't power. Knowledge is power. 72 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 4: For you can be black as a crow, you can 73 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 4: be white as snow. And if you don't know and 74 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 4: ain't got no do, you can go And that's for show. 75 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Ooh he seems fun. 76 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wish I would have known him. Michelle 77 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 2: is seen as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, 78 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: black booksellers in America. He sold books around the late 79 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, early nineteen forties to the mid nineteen seventies. 80 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 2: Him and his bookstore were known the world over. 81 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: So did black and white newspapers write about Michelle and 82 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: the National Memorial African Bookstore. 83 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: Definitely, Michelle stayed in the news more on the black 84 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: side things, of course, but white newspapers wrote about two. 85 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: Here's what the Daily Home News in New Brunswick, New 86 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: Jersey had to say about him in nineteen sixty six. 87 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: Ease you mind reading the headline for me? 88 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: Black Power bookstore is headquarters for Harlem Bitterness. That's a title. Okay, 89 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: The word bitter is a strong one. 90 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 2: Okay, right out the gate. You know what time they're on? 91 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: You do so. 92 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 2: Basically, in this article, a white reporter goes to the 93 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: store to profile it and to talk to Michhew. He 94 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: describes the outside of the store, which has a sign 95 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: that says God damn white Man. He describes the inside 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: of the store, which is full of flags of New 97 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: African nations and shelves bursting with Negro literature. He calls 98 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: Michew a militant extremist with an almost neurotic contempt for whitey, 99 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 2: and he makes fun of his height, calling him nome size, 100 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 2: which I thought was a nice little touch. 101 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: It's rude. 102 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 2: He had a lot of quips about Michelle. He quotes 103 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: a lot of Michell's quips he was known for, like 104 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: the way he talks. He talked in like aphorisms and rhymes. 105 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: So he talks about how Michelle said, the good white 106 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: man he met was in the grave and talked about 107 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: Michelle and how the bookstore was focusing on black supremacy. 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,799 Speaker 1: He was a perfect kind of sound bite person. This 109 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: article was really funny to me because it has that 110 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: same kind of tone and tenor that so many white 111 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: articles about black spaces do, or white articles about black 112 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: things do, which is one of ogling, which is one 113 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: of exoticizing. It's just clearly such an outsider's view of 114 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: surprise and shock and awe of what the writer sees 115 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: when they go into the bookstore and how they feel 116 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: about his character. That feels very familiar to me, especially 117 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: from contemporary articles from newspapers, And that was really funny 118 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: to me. 119 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell who he's speaking to when he's 120 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: writing this article. He's speaking to white people who already 121 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: have their like apprehensions about a black bookstore and what 122 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: might be going on there, and he's really stoking those flames. 123 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: And you know, like at the end of the day 124 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: newspapers are there to sell you ads and to make money. 125 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: The information I think is secondary truly, And I think 126 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: this was like a part of a black power series 127 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: where they were talking about different like black power things 128 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: going on. So people following along on this series, like 129 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: they hear about this little known size black supremacists who 130 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: said the only good white man he met was in 131 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: the grave. Like whatever fears or preconceived notions they have 132 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: are going to be on ten. Like this article does 133 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: not asswage those things at all. But I think that 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: is the purpose of it. 135 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: And then he starts with the word bitterness, So he's 136 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: automat studying the tone for how you should feel about 137 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: what Michelle is saying in the article. 138 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely at us versus them situation in this article. 139 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: So hold that in your mind while we look at 140 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: what black newspapers were saying about Michelle and the National 141 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: African Memorial Bookstore. Here's an article from nineteen sixty two 142 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: from New Insterdam News. It's titled Cooperation and Unity away out. 143 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: That headline is miles in a way different than the 144 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: last one. Yeah, like the opposite side of the spectrum. 145 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the coverage was different too. So Michell actually 146 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: wrote this article in the new Insterdam News, which I 147 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: do think is very telling, Like I don't think he 148 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 2: would be invited to write his own article in a 149 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: white newspaper. And they start off this article that he's written, 150 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: but they give him a bio. They talk about how 151 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: he's the owner and operator of the bookstore for the 152 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: last twenty five years, president of the African Nationals and 153 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: America Incorporated, Chairman of the Harlan Consumer's Committee, so really 154 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: establishing him as a a man in the community doing 155 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: good things and talking about like all his involvement, and 156 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: then it gets into what he has to say, which 157 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: for the last one, I feel like the tone was 158 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: like fear mongering, and the writer in the white newspaper 159 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 2: was definitely speaking to white audiences. But Michelle, I think 160 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: makes it very clear that he's speaking to black audience. 161 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: He's like, hey, you, this is what we need to do, 162 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: Like I'm a part of this, You're a part of 163 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: this us as black people in America, Like this is 164 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: what we need to do to ensure economic security, to 165 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: uplift each other. So it's definitely a different tone, like 166 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 2: he's he has his audience and he has his message 167 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 2: in his bias, but he's not even trying to advertise 168 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: his bookstore. He's just saying like, hey, black man, like, 169 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: let's listen up, Yeah, listen to black man, Like, let's 170 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: you know, get together and not be oppressed and you know, 171 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: cooperate and be in unity and community with each other. 172 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: So I thought that was really telling of the different 173 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: the newspapers. Yeah, And I think this also has a 174 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: much more personal tone. So I think that also has 175 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: to do with the fact that show is writing it himself, 176 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: but that format instead of and Alan is going to 177 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: remove some of the distance between the person who's talking 178 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: the person who's reading the newspaper. And I think he 179 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: does this thing in which he drills down from a 180 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 2: more global perspective, or he uses we in the beginning 181 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: much so he's involving people in the conversation. He's not 182 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: necessarily defining that we, but that we definitely includes and 183 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: is focused on black people. And then later on, as 184 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: you continue reading through the article, we can see him 185 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: going more into the eye how he was inspired in 186 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: some of the things that are more personal to him, 187 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: and he's talking about when it lay in his bed, 188 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: he has a vision, so we get to see more 189 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: of him who he is as a person, what his 190 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: motivations are, and how those things influence the work that 191 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 2: he was doing. Which rather than have this very surface 192 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: level perspective that the person had the writer had and 193 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 2: the other article, in this case, we say we can 194 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: see his humanity very clearly, and you can't really make 195 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 2: excuses or do these workarounds around trying to cater or 196 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: trying to influence how people will understand his quotes by 197 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 2: using words like bitterness. 198 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: It's like, we see what his motivations are very clearly. 199 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will say it did seem like the 200 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 2: white reporter actually liked him, you know, it was surprised 201 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: that he's like, oh, this guy's kind of funny. Yeah, 202 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: you know, even though he didn't agree with his messaging, 203 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: which I mean, I don't agree with exactly everything he 204 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: says in this article that he wrote himself, but I 205 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: do like that he would always talk about and this 206 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: I just know this on background from researching him. He 207 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: used to work at his brother's church. His brother was 208 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: very well known. His name was Solomon Lightfoot Michelle, very 209 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: well known, like evangelical pastor and had like hit records 210 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: on the radio and stuff, but he loves the church, 211 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: saying that he didn't believe in God no more. But 212 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: he quote in the Bible like I don't know what. 213 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: Always seen that happen with more than one person. 214 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: But I mean he talks about like how like poor 215 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 2: people being taken it. And in the vision that you 216 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: talked about earlier, he said so one night while lying 217 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: in bed, I had a vision when I turned to 218 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: the Bible to two Samuel twelve, chapter A king had 219 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: a herd of sheep, and there was a poor man 220 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 2: with one lamb. The greedy king took the only lamb 221 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: the poor man had and cursed the king. And I mean, 222 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: I don't really know Lewis Michau's financials like that. Like 223 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: I know that he was a very well known bookseller 224 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: and people from all over the world would come to 225 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: the history, So I don't think he was hurting for money. 226 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: So for someone who you know, probably isn't in position 227 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: of like the poorest person in Harlem to kind of 228 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: really advocate for the poor, he talks about how greedy 229 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: people are one hundred and twenty fifth Street, where that's 230 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 2: the main thoroughfare in Harlem, so I think he was 231 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: really in this article talking about community and wanting to 232 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: uplift the community, all parts of it, not just like 233 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: the talented tenth, but like really trying to uplift people 234 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: and kind of have like a more nationalist, cooperative community vibe. 235 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: And that is definitely not the vibe in the way newspaper. 236 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: It's kind of like, even you're speaking to white people, 237 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: you're not really saying like, hey, white people, let us 238 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: like do this for ourselves, but it's kind of like 239 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: us versus them. 240 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: In the article written by the white person, there was 241 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: no attempt at understanding. It was just like these are 242 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: the things that I see from the outside. Like there's 243 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: that line where he says, not surprisingly, there are no 244 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: white books and there are only black books in here. Yeah, 245 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: it's not really an attempt to understand the whys behind 246 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: why this exists, or like what the writer's place or 247 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: the white audience's place would be in coming into a 248 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: store like this. 249 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that's the thing with black newspapers generally. 250 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: They're there as like a counter narrative and to kind 251 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 2: of like correct the record, like Okay, these white people 252 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: are saying these things about us. And it's not true. 253 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 2: So we're going to have our own media and we're 254 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: going to say what we know to be true about us. 255 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: And I feel like this comparison really shows that the 256 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 2: newspaper is like, this is black folks to black folks, 257 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 2: and we know what's up with us. And I think 258 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 2: Show shows that perfectly as a bookseller, as a writer, 259 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 2: as a community person, like he's in the streets for 260 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: the for the blacks. 261 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: There's another thing about this article that stood out to me, 262 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: and that's how we talked about the other title, including 263 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: the word bitterness in it, and the title for this 264 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: article written by the show. It's peace. It is wonderful 265 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: is a phrase that's in there, and in one of 266 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: the pictures that accompanies the article, it says peaceful scene. 267 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: And I wonder if you have any insight our perspective 268 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: on this specific articles or black newspapers roles in specifically 269 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: adjusting perspectives of how people think about black people by 270 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: using intentional language by saying, see, look, this is peaceful. 271 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: This is not how other people are trying to portray us, 272 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: where they direct responses to the I'm sure proliferation of 273 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: articles like ones that said this is bitterness look at 274 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: you know, all of these things that black people are 275 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: doing that we should look. 276 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: Down upon generally, Yes, I do think so. I think 277 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: it is in response, like you know, if white people 278 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: call it right, we'll call it a uprising. You know, 279 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 2: if people are protesting, sometimes black newspapers or black people 280 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: will emphasize how peaceful the protests were are, like how 281 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: moral we are for doing this protest, like really trying 282 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 2: to change the narrative for this was particular instance, him 283 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: and Jackie Robinson. 284 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: Had beef, so it's not peaceful. 285 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: Him and Jackie Robinson had public beef. Jackie Robinson was 286 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: trying to like help some Jewish I believe, restaurant owner. 287 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: So he was boycotting the Jewish restaurant owner and talking 288 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: so much stuff about Jackie Robinson. There's pictures of this 289 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: in the Schomberg and it is so funny, like and 290 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: he is so short, and he's just really in these 291 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: streets like coming after Jackie. But then I think later 292 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 2: that same day, you know, Malcolm X was in town 293 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 2: and he was like, hey, brothers, like let's go to 294 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: the radio station and talk this out. And so they 295 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: like squashed the beef. So that's what they're talking about 296 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: right there. But I think it is like a separate 297 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: because he was just like always in the news, he 298 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: was always doing something, So I do think it's kind 299 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: of like a separate thing. I think the cooperation and unity, 300 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: but maybe he was referring to that because he was 301 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: mad that, like the white Jewish people were taking over 302 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: like the hood. Basically, he's like, why are you putting 303 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: a restaurant here when like the a black person should 304 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: have a restaurant here, And he is talking about like 305 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 2: economic stuff and the black buying power and all that. 306 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: So maybe it was connected. Maybe that's why he was 307 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 2: writing this. 308 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: So after the break, prepare to get your freak on. 309 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 5: Say what stay with us? 310 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Before the break we looked at how differently a black 311 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: newspaper and a white newspaper per tra Lewis Michell and 312 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: his bookstore in Harlem. But now we're taking it back 313 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: down south exhibit too. 314 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 3: Freaknick, You've been to Fort Lauderdale, you've been to Panama City, 315 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 3: you've been to Cancun, you've been to Montano Bait. 316 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 4: But when you take. 317 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 3: Away the sands, when you take away the water and 318 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 3: you put all those people on the black stop in. 319 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 4: The Black Mecca. 320 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 3: You get the Black college spring Break. Welcome to Atlanta, 321 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 3: Hi not Ey something fo the station with hip hop 322 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: list Eaves. 323 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: What do you know about freak meeat? 324 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: Well, I know. Freak Nick began in my city, the 325 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: city of Atlanta, and it had to do with college 326 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: students needing to enjoy spring break. It started in the 327 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: late nineteen eighties, I believe, and at first it started 328 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: out as a smaller occasion, but it still had things 329 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: like performances, and they were there to have fun, kind 330 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: of like kick back, enjoy themselves, party a little little bit. 331 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: And then it grew into something much bigger and there 332 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: were these big acts and a lot of debauchery happened 333 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: at the events, and a lot of arguments over that debauchery, 334 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: and it has lived in fame and infamy since then. 335 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, a lot of debauchery, a lot of traffic, 336 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:26,479 Speaker 2: a lot of ass shaking, we smoking, gambling, and as 337 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 2: we've seen in the last couple of years, a lot 338 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 2: of documentaries coming out, a lot of people wanting to, 339 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 2: you know, talk about Freaknik, rehash what it was in documentaries, 340 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: radio or podcasts, even books. So yeah, that was Freakniek 341 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: for you. 342 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: Are you proud that freaknik is in the spotlight as 343 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 1: an Atlanta thing? Like this export of Atlanta. 344 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: I don't know, since we were too young to like 345 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: be in Freakneek. I guess our parents weren't. But I 346 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: don't think my parents was doing Oh okay, I see them, 347 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 2: But you know what, I do think it is funny 348 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: when you see picture the people who brought their kids 349 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: to freak me, like, I'm not missing out on it. 350 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: It's like, why you got yall two year old here? 351 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: Right? Be so for real? 352 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean I would say I'm neither proud norish. 353 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: My sister was that age. Ish, she was a little 354 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: too young, but she was still around the age like 355 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: by the time we got there, because I grew up 356 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: in the early nineties in College Park and so you know, 357 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: my sister was in high school at the time, so 358 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: she was closer to that kind of situation. But that 359 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: was definitely a little bit that was before my time 360 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, but I knew the stories already from 361 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: a young age. It's part of our I canon here 362 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: growing up in Atlanta, right, like, the stories of it, 363 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: no matter how young you were when you were growing 364 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: up in Atlanta. If you were here in the nineties, 365 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: you knew about it. 366 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: Everybody got a story. 367 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: So it seems like everyone also still has an opinion 368 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: about Freakingnick with the multiple documentaries that have been made 369 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: that you were just talking about, and then someone's always 370 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 1: trying to revive it. 371 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 2: So it's no surprise that when it was happening, the 372 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 2: newspapers were chalk full of criticisms and praises depending on 373 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 2: the source. The thought of tens of thousands of extra 374 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: Negroes descending upon an already black city did not make 375 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 2: the white owned newspapers and their majority white readers feel 376 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: all warm and fuzzy inside. In nineteen ninety six, the 377 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: Atlanta Journal Constitution published an article in their viewpoint section 378 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 2: which was called Metro Voices. In it, Mitch Scandalacus described 379 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: Freaknick as a quote major problem that's quote bad for 380 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 2: business and causes quote impossible traffic jams that prevent people 381 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 2: from shopping. 382 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god, you can't believe it. 383 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: Ntch wants to say that clear message Freaknick is not wanted, 384 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: but much of his frustration that pesky little issue of 385 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: race keeps coming up whenever he tries to talk about 386 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: black college students annual spring break celebration wreaking havoc on 387 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 2: the city. Mitch says in. 388 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: His article, regrettably, any discussion of Freaknick is almost always 389 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: clouded by the issue that clouds far too many discussions 390 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: in Atlanta today. Race. But whether you are white or black, 391 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: ask yourself this question. If two hundred thousand white college 392 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: students came to Atlanta and behaved exactly the same way 393 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: as the freakingent crowds have behaved over the past few years, 394 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: would you want them to come back? 395 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 2: Clock y'all as. 396 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: What you got to say to that? 397 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: Gotcha? 398 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 3: All right? 399 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: Mitch? Okay? We have seen so many people try to 400 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: do this kind of anigland around a question, this kind 401 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: of fallacy and thinking before so Mitch was really clearly 402 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: focused on the economics of the situation that it was 403 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: bad for business. Yeah, cared a lot less about the 404 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: people who were involved in this in their enjoyment and 405 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: seemingly seemingly so. And also assume that nobody wanted it, 406 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: Like he was kind of speaking for everybody. We're just like, 407 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: why would we even be talking about this if nobody 408 00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: wanted it here. 409 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: I think I'm going to go ahead and assume he 410 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: was white and probably like well off, maybe a business 411 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: owner himself. The way he was talking, so I think 412 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: he was saying like, no one of my ilk wants list, 413 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: which I think is fair. Probably like sure ninety nine 414 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 2: percent of white business owners who are doing well do 415 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 2: not want this to go on. 416 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, really concerned about the traffic jams. 417 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: Too, Yeah, he was. And I think Mitch's article is 418 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 2: so much a testament to like the Atlanta way that 419 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 2: we've spoken to before on this podcast. Kind of just 420 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: like we're going to focus on having a good image 421 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 2: to the rest of the world. He brings up like 422 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: the Olympics are coming, and like, we don't want to 423 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: jeopardize anything with the Olympics, but we know what the 424 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 2: Olympics did to like black Atlanta, Like they're tearing down 425 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 2: people's houses and you know where they live, so that 426 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: when the world came to Atlanta, they would be impressed. 427 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: So I think Mitch's view point did represent a lot 428 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 2: of Atlanta's viewpoint of the situation. 429 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And to be fair, I also think that it 430 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: expanded beyond just the freaknik viewpoint. It was also the 431 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: spring break viewpoint that so many conservatives and evangelicals would 432 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: have had about things that weren't buttoned up enough for them, 433 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: Like spring break alone at the time was a lot 434 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: about debauchery, and it was about like having fun and drinking, 435 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: and it was about thing that they thought things that 436 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: people who were more conservative thought that teenagers and young 437 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: adults shouldn't be doing on spring break, and to have 438 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: that on such a grand scale as a freaknick would 439 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: be offensive to them. 440 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: I do think race played a big part of it, 441 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 2: because he said, like, oh, if like white people were 442 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: doing this, but like white people do do that type 443 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: of stuff, like they do go to Panama City, they 444 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: do go to Miami. Maybe they don't brand it a 445 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 2: certain name, but they do be at spring break, you know. 446 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: Yes, and no, I'm not saying that race wasn't involved. 447 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: I'm saying that that's an additional layer on top of 448 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: the fact that this person writings probably didn't care for 449 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff around spring break period, like they 450 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: were already very stuffy conservative. This is the kind of 451 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: person who says, all these half naked people out in 452 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: public need to put some clothes on, you know, it's 453 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: not here for any of that. So, yes, race, I'm 454 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: not saying race is not involved, but it's absolutely involved. 455 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: It's just that this person probably was that kind of 456 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: person to not want any kind of situation like this. Yeah, 457 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: anything that would stop people from shopping right, no traffic fans. 458 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: So that was like an opinion column that citizens could 459 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: write into. But what did the paper itself say, like 460 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: the staff. 461 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 2: Writers True Metro Voices was an impendion column. I found 462 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: this article written by a staff writer and in it 463 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 2: you can definitely hear the racial tension present. Similar to 464 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: the opinion section, the staff writer says that a councilwoman 465 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: who was a fan of Freaknik implied at a council 466 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: meeting that the police were looking to kill some of 467 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: the partygoers, and said the same councilwoman compared Freaknik to 468 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 2: apartheid because of the city's decision to close some of 469 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 2: the highway exits. So she said, like these are apartheid tactics. 470 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 2: Other standout phrases from this article in the AJAC clogged 471 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: our streets and trashed our town and absolute carnage. 472 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: How do you feel about that apartheid comment? 473 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I do think with Freaknik, the reaction to 474 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 2: it was very racially motivated, like apartheid, and I do 475 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 2: think they were trying to control people's movement based on 476 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 2: their race and based on like, you're not supposed to 477 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: be a here, you're an outsider. So I mean, I 478 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 2: think with white people, a lot of their racist tactics 479 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 2: are just in them. You know, whether you're in Cape 480 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: Town or whether you're in Atlanta, that racist is going 481 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 2: to pop out and you're going to do the same bullshit. 482 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: So it seems like at the end of this article 483 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: that's when the writer starts editorializing a little bit more 484 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: and inserting their own opinion, because at first is kind 485 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: of a blow by blow about what's going on with 486 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: the councilwoman Carolyn long Banks, and then towards the end, 487 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: that's when they start inserting their own opinion about how 488 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: they feel like council people should stand their grounds and 489 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: tell people that they need to be behaving correctly and 490 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: behaving respectably. Essentially the partygoers. 491 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: H yeah, And I mean, I think even the quotes 492 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: that the writer decides to include I think are very telling. 493 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 2: And it was implied that the police were trying to 494 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 2: kill kids. The writer says that rhetorically the congresswoman descended, 495 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: so it's like kind of making her seem like kind 496 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: of undone, like, oh, is she crazy? 497 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 4: Y'all? 498 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: She's saying the police trying to kill people, but like, 499 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 2: of course, like police did do that. 500 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: Sometimes the writer is definitely trying to portray the councilwoman 501 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: as radical. 502 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's more extremely reckless, doesn't care about the city. 503 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 2: So it is mostly like quotes, but I think they 504 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: were picked very intentionally, and like the previous article talking 505 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 2: about Louis Mitchell's bookstore, like you know who the audience 506 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: for this is and who's going to be scandalized by 507 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 2: this coverage. 508 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I know in your research, Katie, that you 509 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: came across a bunch of different articles and different newspapers, 510 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: and that the practice of journalism when it comes to 511 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: these really contentious issues that have to do with race 512 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: is very wide ranging and had a lot of nuance, 513 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: and that so many times just because a person said 514 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: something in the opinion section didn't necessarily mean those were 515 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: the reflective of the views of the newspaper in general. 516 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: And just because the newspaper was white didn't necessarily mean 517 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: they were always like anti black and everything that they wrote. 518 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: Just because the newspaper was black didn't necessarily mean that 519 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,479 Speaker 1: their viewpoints were all the same, Like black people in 520 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: themselves have wide ranging opinions about different things. And I'm 521 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: sure like if in the case of Freakinick, there were 522 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: also black people who didn't want a bunch of people 523 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: descending upon the city. But I think it is of 524 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: course fair and valid and legitimate to see how all 525 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: of a newspaper's articles about a subject, taken in totality, 526 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: reflect how people felt about that and how they wanted 527 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: to express those views to their audiences. Because of course, 528 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: when you're creating a newspaper, when you're choosing what to 529 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: put in it, you know who your readers are. You 530 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: do that analysis. You want your newspaper to continue to 531 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: be that, you need to fund the newspaper. It has 532 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: to be funded. So there are going to be biases 533 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: that are included in the journalism that happens in the newspaper. 534 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, biases in any media. In this podcast, anything 535 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 2: you read like people are making it and people are biased. 536 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: So for sure. 537 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: Okay, now that we heard from the adac, let's see 538 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 2: what the bullack newspaper in Atlanta was saying that Atlanta 539 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: Daily Worlds, can you do us the honor of telling us? 540 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: The title Gladly College Fest Freaking Nick ninety three promises 541 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: to have meaning? 542 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: So basically this article by Della Pulam, a staff writer 543 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 2: at Atlanta Daily World, kind of it has a redemptive tale, 544 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: like we know that people didn't like freak me. We 545 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: know some stuff happened, and we're getting back to our roots. 546 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: It's gonna be smaller, but we're gonna have a scholarship 547 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 2: and people are gonna show off their talents, and you know, 548 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 2: these celebrities are going to be here like she named 549 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: drops baby Face and La Read and you know this 550 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: is about college students and we're getting back to that, 551 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: to college prep workshops for high schoolers and all this stuff. 552 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: So I think it had like a redemptive like, hey, hey, 553 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: not too much on us, like this is what we're 554 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 2: really about, or about education or about community being the 555 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 2: people together, which I think goes back to my point 556 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 2: about black newspapers trying to be a counter narrative, Like 557 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: I think this article is like real respectable. 558 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: Honestly, That's what I was gonna say because it seems 559 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: like they were admitting telling on ourselves, basically admitting to 560 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: that everything everybody has said before about this being a 561 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: terrible situation for Atlanta. Now we have to make up 562 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: for that. 563 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: I don't know if they were saying it was that terrible. 564 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, so like from Humble Beginnings in nineteen 565 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: eighty four, like we're taking it back to that, you know, 566 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: like it got a little racous, but this is what 567 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: we're really about. This is what we're going to do, 568 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: come through. They're so advertising it, but they were definitely 569 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 2: a situating the positives. You know, they weren't talking about traffic, 570 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: they weren't talking about sexual assault. You know, they're name 571 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 2: dropping celebrities. It was kind of damage control. 572 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's giving how when somebody when a black 573 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: child or a black person dies, and they have to say, 574 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: look at how good of a student they were after 575 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: the fact, or look at all these good things that 576 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: they did in society. They have to kind of justify 577 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: the good parts of the things that everybody else is 578 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: saying are negative about that person. That's kind of what 579 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: it reminds me of. 580 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 2: And I found this to be kind of a pattern 581 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: in the Atlanta Daily World, especially about Freaknik. There were 582 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 2: other ones where they're saying, like Freaknek students vow they'll 583 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: quit the drinking. You know, people saying like, oh, there's 584 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: too much to going on, and they're like, oh, we're 585 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: not We're not doing that anymore. And it seemed like 586 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: ninety three was a year that they were trying to 587 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: turn it around, like there was a concerted effort to 588 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: like push out this narrative like Freakneak is cleaning, it's 589 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: up its image. We're not going to be doing all 590 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 2: that or do a scholarships. We're not gonna be drinking, 591 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 2: we're not gonna doing drugs. But like there wasn't really 592 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,959 Speaker 2: much mention about like the sexual assault that was going on, 593 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: which like I think is more important than the traffic 594 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: because it's just gonna be traffic. It's Atlanta, there's gonna 595 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 2: be traffic, but not mentioning of like the more you know, 596 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: illegal things that were happening. Like the black newspapers didn't 597 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: want to really touch on that because I think it 598 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: would just confirm what white people said about these freakneakers 599 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 2: that they were called. 600 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,239 Speaker 1: They wanted to only touch on the harmless things that 601 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: it was really easy to justify after the fact, and 602 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 1: drinking was one of those things. But the article about 603 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: them saying I'm not drinking anymore was really funny to 604 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: me because I'm sure or they could throw a stone 605 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: and hit five other people who would be like that 606 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: was great, I'm drinking against tonight the party is still going, yeah, 607 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: and I'm ready for the next freaknik. 608 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: Three students said, we drink and drink and drink, but 609 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: that is it for a long time. So it's like, 610 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people who drink are like, oh, 611 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: I'm never I was just. 612 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: About to say that. I mean, I can tell you 613 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: how many times I've said that. 614 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 2: It's like, girl, they hungover, just wait, drink. This is 615 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: a quote from that article about drinking. I will not 616 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: drink again, said ladies at film in college, who said 617 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 2: jokingly they had enough liquor in their system to last 618 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: a lifetime. So like, clearly they're just talking, but you know, 619 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 2: they make you make this a whole article trying to 620 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 2: like clean up the image of free peak, which like 621 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 2: I understand because you know, like people were very racist, 622 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 2: like saying like terrible things about these students, And I 623 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 2: just think like if one hundred thousand extra people are 624 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 2: in city, like somebody's going to go down, regardless of 625 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 2: the race, the age, Like someone's gonna do something illegal. 626 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: I think unless you're Muslim and taking the hajj, they're 627 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: not doing nothing illegal. I'm assumed they're not. 628 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: It's a pilgrimage of a different sort, but it is 629 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: not a modest one. 630 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So like if it's not that occurring, like somebody's 631 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 2: gonna someone's gonna be drinking too much, someone's gonna be littering, 632 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: someone's gonna be jying. But in the moment, people did 633 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: a little bit too much on freaknique, and black newspapers 634 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: were trying to combat that. 635 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: So m hm. And we're selective in that combating. So 636 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: were there any white newspapers that talked about sexual assault? 637 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it got national covers too, So like the 638 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 2: New York Times is talking about Freaknikue and things are 639 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 2: going on. I think like it was because it was 640 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: the early nineties, So I think the sexual assault like 641 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: talking about it like in Earnest was more like a retrospective. 642 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: But you know, it was just like kind of like 643 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 2: they're naked and cogging up the highways, like that was 644 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 2: the main thrust of the coverage. And I mean, yeah, like, 645 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: I think we've come a lot way in the understanding 646 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: sexual assault and knowing like you could literally be walking 647 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 2: down the street naked and like no one should touch you, 648 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: but I don't think people really. Yeah, so we've talked 649 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: about a bookstore and a college ring break party. But 650 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: of course these are not the only examples of disparate 651 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 2: coverage based on the source. And that's not just a 652 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 2: phenomenon of the past. It's happening right now. So I 653 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: think a big takeaway from seeing these examples is media literacy, 654 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 2: which entails considering the source and considering the intended audience. 655 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 2: Like we said, each newspaper, each podcast, each radio program, 656 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: they have their own biases. They're trying to get whatever 657 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 2: message they're trying to get out, and not saying that 658 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 2: is a bad thing, like that's just what it is, 659 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 2: but being able to know that and understand the biases 660 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 2: and be able to peep it and think for yourself. 661 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, we know that we're being influenced. Let's be mindful 662 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: of our awareness of that influence and then also try 663 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: to under stand that we can choose to take what 664 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: we want from it, and we don't just have to 665 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: mindlessly do that. 666 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: And now it's time for role credits, the segment where 667 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 2: we give credit to a person, place, or thing that 668 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: we encountered during the week. Eves, who what would you 669 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 2: like to give credit to you? 670 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to short braids. These 671 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: aren't that short. I have braids in right now, but 672 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: I do like the length of them. I've been wearing 673 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: them for a couple of weeks now, and usually when 674 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: I do get braids or twists, when I get weave 675 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: there a little bit longer. But it's been pretty freeing 676 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: having such a like it's like a little bit underneath 677 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: my shoulders length. So braids all day, shorter braids all day. 678 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: I like you, Okay, I'd like to give credit to 679 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 2: surprise parties. I went to one recently and NEWS don't 680 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 2: know how to keep auspries. 681 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: Did you set up the party or did somebody else 682 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,479 Speaker 1: set up the party? 683 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 2: Someone else set it up. I was just there, but 684 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 2: I feel like people will be trying to make the 685 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: surprise about them, even though it's absolutely not about you. Like, 686 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 2: basically everyone was calling this the person that was being 687 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 2: surprised and being like, oh, what are you doing for 688 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 2: your birthday? Like, no, niggas are so annoying, like straight 689 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 2: up like you know me, I'm not the type to 690 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 2: like have really be hitting her up that much on 691 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 2: her birthday, So I didn't say anything. 692 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: Those are the type of people who be too loud 693 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: at the space table. They'd be talking too much. Go on, 694 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: continue this theory, because you know how there's like a 695 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: reverse psychology you can work when you're at when you're 696 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: playing space and you can be like, oh, I got 697 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: this heat in my hand, like I'm doing all of this, 698 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm doing all of that, I'm whooped the wood. I 699 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: gotta set up whoop the looping there. Yeah, So I 700 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: feel like that's the same kind of person who rather 701 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 1: than a person who can be you know, they can 702 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: say things at the right time at the space table 703 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: and know when not to say things. You give up 704 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: too much, basically you lay your cards on the table. Yeah. 705 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think people just want to be like, oh, 706 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 2: I tricked you. But it's like maybe if one person 707 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 2: does that, but if seventy five people call and say 708 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 2: what are you doing here? They like it's a little hit. 709 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, what did the person say? Did the was the 710 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: person actually surprised? Now? Did they like the party? 711 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had some time at the party, but they 712 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 2: weren't surprised. They're like something that's going on. 713 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And with that. 714 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 2: We will see y'all next week. 715 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: Bye bye. On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and 716 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: Fairweather Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves Jeffco 717 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: and Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. 718 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at on Theme Show. You can 719 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: also send us an email at hello at on Theme 720 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: dot Show. Head to on Theme dot Show to check 721 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: out the show notes for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 722 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 723 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.