WEBVTT - Building a Better Public Bathroom

0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796
<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

0:00:20.316 --> 0:00:23.316
<v Speaker 2>Bathroom infrastructure has always been a problem for me because

0:00:23.516 --> 0:00:25.876
<v Speaker 2>I need a bathroom a lot, and I get frustrated

0:00:25.876 --> 0:00:29.396
<v Speaker 2>when a bathroom isn't good. But I wasn't really necessarily

0:00:29.396 --> 0:00:31.196
<v Speaker 2>sure that that was a problem for everybody. So I

0:00:31.196 --> 0:00:36.036
<v Speaker 2>started doing this thing where I would interview everyone about

0:00:36.076 --> 0:00:38.596
<v Speaker 2>their bathroom habits. And the most fun thing to do

0:00:38.756 --> 0:00:42.036
<v Speaker 2>actually is ask if you ever get in an uber lyft, say,

0:00:42.196 --> 0:00:44.236
<v Speaker 2>can I ask you a weird question? Where do you

0:00:44.276 --> 0:00:45.516
<v Speaker 2>go to the bathroom when you're working?

0:00:45.956 --> 0:00:49.076
<v Speaker 1>This is Fletcher Wilson. He's the co founder and CEO

0:00:49.196 --> 0:00:51.316
<v Speaker 1>of a company called Throne Labs.

0:00:51.836 --> 0:00:56.556
<v Speaker 2>I would get highly strategic answers, and what was revealing

0:00:56.676 --> 0:00:58.356
<v Speaker 2>is just how big of a problem it really is

0:00:58.596 --> 0:01:00.556
<v Speaker 2>if you're working from your car and you don't have

0:01:00.636 --> 0:01:01.556
<v Speaker 2>an office bathroom.

0:01:01.596 --> 0:01:04.556
<v Speaker 1>Right, So, what are some of the strategic answers people gave?

0:01:04.596 --> 0:01:07.076
<v Speaker 2>You Never drink water or coffee on the job, which

0:01:07.156 --> 0:01:09.796
<v Speaker 2>is a bad answer, right, or.

0:01:10.116 --> 0:01:11.116
<v Speaker 1>A sad answer?

0:01:11.276 --> 0:01:14.876
<v Speaker 2>Sad answer, or I know this one plays this one

0:01:14.956 --> 0:01:16.836
<v Speaker 2>restaurant that lets me so I'm always trying to know.

0:01:16.876 --> 0:01:18.676
<v Speaker 2>At four o'clock in the afternom I'm trying to get

0:01:18.676 --> 0:01:22.716
<v Speaker 2>a ride there the most interesting was I'm driving on

0:01:23.156 --> 0:01:26.356
<v Speaker 2>mission in San Francisco, and I asked the question, and

0:01:26.116 --> 0:01:27.916
<v Speaker 2>he turns around and goes, you really want to know?

0:01:28.156 --> 0:01:30.876
<v Speaker 2>And I said absolutely. He pulls over to the side

0:01:30.876 --> 0:01:34.396
<v Speaker 2>of the road, which made me nervous, and reaches for

0:01:34.436 --> 0:01:38.676
<v Speaker 2>his glove compartment, which made me more nervous, and opens

0:01:38.716 --> 0:01:42.836
<v Speaker 2>it up and pulls out a rolled up necktie. And

0:01:43.276 --> 0:01:46.516
<v Speaker 2>I sort of was confused, And he said, with a

0:01:46.556 --> 0:01:47.916
<v Speaker 2>smile on his face, as if he had sort of

0:01:47.916 --> 0:01:50.036
<v Speaker 2>solved the mysteries of the universe. You know, all I

0:01:50.036 --> 0:01:51.676
<v Speaker 2>have to do is whenever I drop someone off at

0:01:51.676 --> 0:01:53.796
<v Speaker 2>a hotel, I throw this on and they think I

0:01:53.836 --> 0:01:56.036
<v Speaker 2>am staying there and I get to use their bathroom.

0:01:56.156 --> 0:01:56.316
<v Speaker 1>Huh.

0:01:56.716 --> 0:01:58.276
<v Speaker 2>He had to put on a costume just to use

0:01:58.276 --> 0:02:00.876
<v Speaker 2>an office bathroom, right, And that kind of put me

0:02:00.916 --> 0:02:03.676
<v Speaker 2>on a journey where I was talking to police officers,

0:02:03.756 --> 0:02:08.756
<v Speaker 2>people without reliable access to homes, parents with young children, athletes,

0:02:08.836 --> 0:02:10.076
<v Speaker 2>you know, and everyone.

0:02:10.396 --> 0:02:12.596
<v Speaker 1>I have the good fortune to have worked in offices

0:02:12.636 --> 0:02:15.756
<v Speaker 1>where I can always go to the bathroom, but there

0:02:15.956 --> 0:02:18.356
<v Speaker 1>is on my route to work. It takes me forty

0:02:18.356 --> 0:02:20.636
<v Speaker 1>five minutes to get to work on the subway, and

0:02:20.676 --> 0:02:22.956
<v Speaker 1>there's a Whole Foods in the middle. It's the one

0:02:22.996 --> 0:02:27.436
<v Speaker 1>on Houston Street by second half, and like more than once,

0:02:28.076 --> 0:02:30.916
<v Speaker 1>I've been running down Houston Street and a sweat I'm

0:02:31.076 --> 0:02:33.796
<v Speaker 1>halfway to work, heading for the Whole Food's toilet.

0:02:34.276 --> 0:02:35.996
<v Speaker 2>We've all been in that sweat run. I mean not

0:02:36.036 --> 0:02:38.676
<v Speaker 2>all of us, but I'd say forty percent of the population,

0:02:38.796 --> 0:02:41.956
<v Speaker 2>based on my discussions, has been in that situation before.

0:02:47.836 --> 0:02:50.116
<v Speaker 1>I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the

0:02:50.116 --> 0:02:52.036
<v Speaker 1>show where I talk to people who are trying to

0:02:52.076 --> 0:02:56.396
<v Speaker 1>make technological progress. My guest today is Fletcher Wilson. His

0:02:56.556 --> 0:03:00.236
<v Speaker 1>company Throne Labs is putting new public bathrooms in cities

0:03:00.276 --> 0:03:03.276
<v Speaker 1>around the country. His problem is this, how do you

0:03:03.276 --> 0:03:07.596
<v Speaker 1>create public toilets that people actually want to use? As

0:03:07.636 --> 0:03:12.676
<v Speaker 1>you'll hear, the answer in a combination of physical design, technology,

0:03:12.996 --> 0:03:16.916
<v Speaker 1>and a kind of social engineering. The conversation also points

0:03:16.956 --> 0:03:19.916
<v Speaker 1>to some bigger ideas about how hard it is for

0:03:20.036 --> 0:03:23.876
<v Speaker 1>cities to build and maintain pretty much anything.

0:03:24.196 --> 0:03:25.996
<v Speaker 2>It started by doing a lot of research on why

0:03:26.036 --> 0:03:28.996
<v Speaker 2>there are many public bathrooms out there, and it's an

0:03:28.996 --> 0:03:31.716
<v Speaker 2>interesting history to some extent. A lot of people point

0:03:31.756 --> 0:03:34.516
<v Speaker 2>to this movement in the sixties and seventies called the

0:03:34.556 --> 0:03:36.796
<v Speaker 2>Coalition to and Pay for Toilets in America.

0:03:36.956 --> 0:03:39.876
<v Speaker 1>Oh interesting, So what was the case before that? Like,

0:03:39.916 --> 0:03:41.676
<v Speaker 1>what was the status quo?

0:03:42.516 --> 0:03:45.476
<v Speaker 2>There were a lot of put a quarter in and

0:03:45.836 --> 0:03:48.676
<v Speaker 2>you can use the bathroom facilities actually in America and

0:03:48.716 --> 0:03:51.876
<v Speaker 2>certainly in Europe, and that created the right incentives to

0:03:51.876 --> 0:03:56.316
<v Speaker 2>provide bathrooms in some respects. So a lot of people

0:03:56.356 --> 0:03:58.276
<v Speaker 2>point to that as why there are better bathrooms in

0:03:58.316 --> 0:04:01.036
<v Speaker 2>Europe VERSUS America. So I think that's a big part

0:04:01.036 --> 0:04:04.156
<v Speaker 2>of it. I think there are more recent issues, I

0:04:04.196 --> 0:04:08.956
<v Speaker 2>think safety and security, and in a lot of urban

0:04:08.956 --> 0:04:11.436
<v Speaker 2>areas in the modern US city, there are a lot

0:04:11.476 --> 0:04:13.276
<v Speaker 2>of cities, as we've talked to them, that are sort

0:04:13.276 --> 0:04:15.996
<v Speaker 2>of nervous that bathrooms will become sort of a location

0:04:16.116 --> 0:04:18.236
<v Speaker 2>for nefarious activity like.

0:04:18.436 --> 0:04:22.076
<v Speaker 1>Drugs and prostitution. I mean, is that said basically.

0:04:22.676 --> 0:04:25.436
<v Speaker 2>Sure, you name it, and it's a private space within

0:04:25.476 --> 0:04:30.116
<v Speaker 2>a public space, and that makes city officials nervous. And

0:04:30.196 --> 0:04:33.116
<v Speaker 2>in some cases it's true that it has been difficult

0:04:33.596 --> 0:04:37.396
<v Speaker 2>with the old school bathroom infrastructure style to solve for

0:04:37.476 --> 0:04:38.076
<v Speaker 2>that problem.

0:04:38.516 --> 0:04:44.876
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so this is why we can't have nice public toilets.

0:04:45.436 --> 0:04:47.756
<v Speaker 1>What were you doing before, what was your job?

0:04:48.476 --> 0:04:50.916
<v Speaker 2>Thrown as my second company. My first company was a

0:04:50.916 --> 0:04:55.316
<v Speaker 2>medical technology company with a catheter a piece of hardware,

0:04:55.556 --> 0:04:58.076
<v Speaker 2>so I'm not afraid of building things in the physical world.

0:04:58.156 --> 0:05:00.636
<v Speaker 2>That company was trying to solve a problem for people

0:05:00.676 --> 0:05:04.596
<v Speaker 2>whose leg veins aren't able to properly pump blood back

0:05:04.636 --> 0:05:06.356
<v Speaker 2>to the heart from the legs, and so we had

0:05:06.356 --> 0:05:09.556
<v Speaker 2>a cather that went in recreated vein valves for people

0:05:09.876 --> 0:05:11.956
<v Speaker 2>in their legs and so. And that company is still

0:05:11.996 --> 0:05:14.396
<v Speaker 2>going and I'm proud of it. But I think the

0:05:14.516 --> 0:05:17.596
<v Speaker 2>link here is, first of all, it's all plumbing, veins

0:05:17.796 --> 0:05:20.996
<v Speaker 2>and bathrooms, but really sticky problems that a lot of

0:05:20.996 --> 0:05:22.636
<v Speaker 2>people don't want to try to solve.

0:05:23.596 --> 0:05:26.076
<v Speaker 1>So what's the moment when you decide to start this company.

0:05:26.436 --> 0:05:28.836
<v Speaker 2>I'm walking in San Francisco. I have to go to

0:05:28.876 --> 0:05:33.676
<v Speaker 2>the bathroom and I see a porta potty and I

0:05:33.716 --> 0:05:35.596
<v Speaker 2>try to go use it, and there's a lock on it.

0:05:35.636 --> 0:05:37.996
<v Speaker 2>This is sort of a porta potty outside a residential

0:05:37.996 --> 0:05:41.316
<v Speaker 2>construction site. And it sort of hit me. There are

0:05:41.516 --> 0:05:44.996
<v Speaker 2>porta potties all over the city. They're not nice to use.

0:05:45.516 --> 0:05:47.956
<v Speaker 2>They're being used about one percent of the time. If

0:05:47.956 --> 0:05:50.516
<v Speaker 2>that what if we could sort of, you know, create

0:05:50.556 --> 0:05:53.436
<v Speaker 2>some sort of bathroom sharing system where the construction company

0:05:53.476 --> 0:05:55.396
<v Speaker 2>is incentive ized or the person who's driveway it's on

0:05:55.436 --> 0:05:58.756
<v Speaker 2>is incentivized to open up an elevated bathroom experience for

0:05:58.836 --> 0:06:00.076
<v Speaker 2>anyone who needs it. Ha.

0:06:00.396 --> 0:06:03.236
<v Speaker 1>So that's Airbnb, but for toilets is essentially what you're

0:06:03.276 --> 0:06:03.996
<v Speaker 1>imagining there.

0:06:04.476 --> 0:06:07.716
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I wish I could take credit for AIRPNP, but

0:06:07.756 --> 0:06:10.076
<v Speaker 2>there actually was a predecessor company to mine that have

0:06:10.196 --> 0:06:10.516
<v Speaker 2>that meme.

0:06:10.636 --> 0:06:13.996
<v Speaker 1>Oh interesting, and they were trying to do that.

0:06:13.996 --> 0:06:16.316
<v Speaker 2>That was more you can use my bathroom in my

0:06:16.396 --> 0:06:18.796
<v Speaker 2>living room for a fee, and it didn't work. I

0:06:18.796 --> 0:06:19.636
<v Speaker 2>don't think it worked.

0:06:20.236 --> 0:06:23.836
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so you have the idea and you start

0:06:23.836 --> 0:06:24.476
<v Speaker 1>the company.

0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:26.356
<v Speaker 2>Well, you got to have a team, so pull together

0:06:26.676 --> 0:06:29.476
<v Speaker 2>a five person founding team. First company was a solo

0:06:29.516 --> 0:06:32.516
<v Speaker 2>founder journey. This one I decided not to do that.

0:06:32.596 --> 0:06:34.796
<v Speaker 2>It's it's hard to start these things, and so I

0:06:34.836 --> 0:06:38.956
<v Speaker 2>brought in a hardware guy. I found two people from

0:06:39.036 --> 0:06:41.956
<v Speaker 2>the traditional portable sanitation industry who had owned and run

0:06:41.996 --> 0:06:43.556
<v Speaker 2>one of those companies for a long time, which was

0:06:43.676 --> 0:06:47.356
<v Speaker 2>very useful to understand what the old school portable sanitation

0:06:47.436 --> 0:06:48.596
<v Speaker 2>industry does.

0:06:48.476 --> 0:06:50.676
<v Speaker 1>Like basically from the porta potty business.

0:06:50.996 --> 0:06:53.036
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I always I try to extend it to make

0:06:53.036 --> 0:06:56.156
<v Speaker 2>it sound even more glorified. But yes, porta potty business,

0:06:56.636 --> 0:06:58.316
<v Speaker 2>which is great, has done a lot of great things,

0:06:58.316 --> 0:07:00.236
<v Speaker 2>but we're trying to build sort of a new system

0:07:00.276 --> 0:07:03.436
<v Speaker 2>on top of that. And then my last co founder, Jess,

0:07:03.556 --> 0:07:08.396
<v Speaker 2>who brings this sort of grassroots marketing and sales side

0:07:08.396 --> 0:07:09.996
<v Speaker 2>of how to sell to cities and get a bunch

0:07:09.996 --> 0:07:11.436
<v Speaker 2>of people excited about something like this.

0:07:11.836 --> 0:07:14.596
<v Speaker 1>And so at some point you go from selling to

0:07:15.316 --> 0:07:16.996
<v Speaker 1>people where the porta part is going to be in

0:07:17.036 --> 0:07:19.156
<v Speaker 1>their driveway, to construction companies it's like you're gonna have

0:07:19.196 --> 0:07:22.316
<v Speaker 1>one of these anyways to selling to cities and you

0:07:22.356 --> 0:07:24.836
<v Speaker 1>know transitisms selling to the government basically, right, that's the

0:07:24.836 --> 0:07:26.676
<v Speaker 1>model you land at. What how do you figure that

0:07:26.716 --> 0:07:27.116
<v Speaker 1>part out?

0:07:27.276 --> 0:07:31.516
<v Speaker 2>There are three potential customers, the user, the city or

0:07:32.276 --> 0:07:35.356
<v Speaker 2>companies like Uber enterprise, right, And we tried actually selling

0:07:35.396 --> 0:07:38.876
<v Speaker 2>to Uber and Lyft and Amazon we have drivers, right,

0:07:38.956 --> 0:07:41.756
<v Speaker 2>But I think the issue was twofold call us when

0:07:41.756 --> 0:07:44.676
<v Speaker 2>you have ten thousand bathrooms all over the country, and

0:07:45.156 --> 0:07:46.756
<v Speaker 2>to some extent, some of those companies aren't as in

0:07:46.836 --> 0:07:49.676
<v Speaker 2>xentivized to provide a workplace benefit for their non W

0:07:49.796 --> 0:07:51.956
<v Speaker 2>two workers, So that's a rabbit hole we won't go into.

0:07:52.116 --> 0:07:54.436
<v Speaker 1>Soh So basically, like the idea is like, hey, Uber,

0:07:54.516 --> 0:07:57.876
<v Speaker 1>you could attract drivers by giving them bathrooms, which Lyft doesn't.

0:07:58.196 --> 0:08:00.916
<v Speaker 1>But then you're saying legally, if they do that, they

0:08:01.036 --> 0:08:03.716
<v Speaker 1>might have to hire their workers as W two workers

0:08:03.716 --> 0:08:06.596
<v Speaker 1>instead of contractors. Like that's a risk, that's a risk.

0:08:06.836 --> 0:08:11.396
<v Speaker 2>Interesting and so a quick aside on selling to the user.

0:08:11.516 --> 0:08:13.356
<v Speaker 2>I think we were never feeling very good about the

0:08:13.396 --> 0:08:16.116
<v Speaker 2>idea of people paying to use the bathroom, especially in America,

0:08:16.356 --> 0:08:19.156
<v Speaker 2>but we tried it. We played around with bathroom credits,

0:08:19.196 --> 0:08:21.796
<v Speaker 2>and what you find is one out of ten people

0:08:21.796 --> 0:08:23.796
<v Speaker 2>are willing to do it, or maybe one out of five.

0:08:23.956 --> 0:08:26.556
<v Speaker 2>But then if there is a dribble of pee on

0:08:26.636 --> 0:08:29.036
<v Speaker 2>the seat, you hear from them right, you don't want

0:08:29.036 --> 0:08:31.036
<v Speaker 2>to pay for a bathroom and not have a perfect experience.

0:08:31.116 --> 0:08:33.916
<v Speaker 2>And while we try to provide a perfect experience every time,

0:08:34.036 --> 0:08:36.636
<v Speaker 2>it's difficult. And so that just felt like an uphill

0:08:36.676 --> 0:08:38.756
<v Speaker 2>battle to convince hundreds of thousands of people a day

0:08:38.796 --> 0:08:40.676
<v Speaker 2>to make a different buying decision than they're used to

0:08:41.916 --> 0:08:44.956
<v Speaker 2>and so you land on cities. So we land on cities, and.

0:08:44.876 --> 0:08:47.836
<v Speaker 1>So the big question is how do you keep people

0:08:47.876 --> 0:08:50.676
<v Speaker 1>from going in there and doing drugs or like pooping

0:08:50.716 --> 0:08:53.076
<v Speaker 1>on the floor or whatever. Right, how do you make

0:08:53.116 --> 0:08:55.316
<v Speaker 1>it not a terrible public toilet? That seems like the

0:08:55.356 --> 0:08:57.156
<v Speaker 1>fundamental hard question is that? Right?

0:08:57.356 --> 0:09:00.836
<v Speaker 2>I think that's one of two fundamental hard questions. I think,

0:09:00.916 --> 0:09:02.596
<v Speaker 2>if I can back up, there's one other that I

0:09:02.596 --> 0:09:06.396
<v Speaker 2>think is pretty critical, which is the difficulty of building

0:09:06.436 --> 0:09:11.356
<v Speaker 2>physical infrastructure and the inflight ability of that. So the

0:09:11.396 --> 0:09:13.796
<v Speaker 2>main solution for cities they don't use poor bodies. It's

0:09:13.796 --> 0:09:17.076
<v Speaker 2>not a crowd pleaser, and so they typically build brick

0:09:17.076 --> 0:09:20.276
<v Speaker 2>and mortar bathrooms or install these factory built systems that

0:09:20.596 --> 0:09:23.796
<v Speaker 2>will plug into the waste and water infrastructure. The problem

0:09:23.876 --> 0:09:25.996
<v Speaker 2>is that takes two to three years, and it usually

0:09:26.036 --> 0:09:28.436
<v Speaker 2>costs like a million dollars a bathroom, and then once

0:09:28.476 --> 0:09:31.276
<v Speaker 2>it's down, maybe you picked the wrong spot. It's there

0:09:31.316 --> 0:09:32.436
<v Speaker 2>for twenty or thirty years.

0:09:32.596 --> 0:09:34.556
<v Speaker 1>New York, in fact, just did that, and they even

0:09:34.596 --> 0:09:39.036
<v Speaker 1>they bought like prefab bathrooms, but installing them like basically

0:09:39.076 --> 0:09:41.316
<v Speaker 1>hooking them up to water and sewer I guess did

0:09:41.356 --> 0:09:45.436
<v Speaker 1>in fact cost a million dollars a bathroom, which I mean,

0:09:46.516 --> 0:09:48.676
<v Speaker 1>it still seems crazy to me. I know enough that

0:09:48.716 --> 0:09:50.236
<v Speaker 1>it shouldn't, but like.

0:09:50.196 --> 0:09:52.476
<v Speaker 3>I feel like you could build an apartment for a

0:09:52.476 --> 0:09:55.476
<v Speaker 3>million dollars and put a toilet in it. Yeah, like

0:09:55.516 --> 0:09:59.476
<v Speaker 3>you actually could like buy a condo for five hundred

0:09:59.476 --> 0:10:01.436
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars or the toilet and it. Let you know,

0:10:01.516 --> 0:10:04.596
<v Speaker 3>like it's there, Like there's an abundance problem here, right,

0:10:04.756 --> 0:10:06.716
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I guess this is kind of part of

0:10:06.756 --> 0:10:08.796
<v Speaker 3>what is enabled in your business. If it didn't cost

0:10:08.796 --> 0:10:12.196
<v Speaker 3>a millionllion dollars to build a public toilet, literally, your

0:10:12.196 --> 0:10:14.796
<v Speaker 3>business would be a less compelling proposition to cities.

0:10:15.436 --> 0:10:17.996
<v Speaker 2>I think that would take away half of our value proposition,

0:10:18.036 --> 0:10:20.916
<v Speaker 2>which is this flexibility ability to you know, the original

0:10:21.116 --> 0:10:23.636
<v Speaker 2>products back was a hotel, lobby bathroom that can be

0:10:23.676 --> 0:10:25.836
<v Speaker 2>placed in a home depot, parking lot in an hour

0:10:25.916 --> 0:10:26.236
<v Speaker 2>or less.

0:10:26.276 --> 0:10:29.836
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so flexible installation. And then the sort of social norms.

0:10:29.876 --> 0:10:33.436
<v Speaker 1>How do you keep very small percentage of people from

0:10:33.516 --> 0:10:34.636
<v Speaker 1>ruining it for everybody?

0:10:34.676 --> 0:10:36.396
<v Speaker 2>And that's the other big piece, So.

0:10:36.396 --> 0:10:39.156
<v Speaker 1>Let's take them in order. There's first the how do

0:10:39.196 --> 0:10:42.236
<v Speaker 1>you build a bathroom that doesn't cost a million dollars

0:10:42.276 --> 0:10:44.716
<v Speaker 1>and that you can move around if you want to.

0:10:45.836 --> 0:10:49.076
<v Speaker 1>Presumably that's that's better than a porta potty, right, Like

0:10:49.236 --> 0:10:51.116
<v Speaker 1>we have a bad answer to that, which is the

0:10:51.116 --> 0:10:53.236
<v Speaker 1>porta potty. But yeah, so how do you do that one?

0:10:53.636 --> 0:10:56.836
<v Speaker 2>Yes, better than a porta potty. So what you want

0:10:56.836 --> 0:10:59.156
<v Speaker 2>to do is convince a user that they're at a

0:10:59.236 --> 0:11:01.596
<v Speaker 2>nice indoor bathroom. There's a lot of technology. This thing

0:11:01.676 --> 0:11:05.596
<v Speaker 2>is basically a stationary machine with large holding tanks for

0:11:05.716 --> 0:11:09.756
<v Speaker 2>water and waste, humps and sensors and master ration system

0:11:09.796 --> 0:11:12.276
<v Speaker 2>to move this waste and water around, to allow a

0:11:12.316 --> 0:11:15.636
<v Speaker 2>flushing toilet, a running water sink, and then all the

0:11:15.676 --> 0:11:19.676
<v Speaker 2>other accoutrement of an indoor bathroom HVAC, you know, so

0:11:19.916 --> 0:11:24.596
<v Speaker 2>air conditioning, heat, and ventilation, all on solar energy so

0:11:24.596 --> 0:11:27.236
<v Speaker 2>that we don't have to necessarily plug into public infrastructure.

0:11:27.676 --> 0:11:29.716
<v Speaker 2>And so that was the challenge. And we started building

0:11:29.756 --> 0:11:32.596
<v Speaker 2>one of these in my co founder Ben Clark's sideyard,

0:11:32.636 --> 0:11:35.356
<v Speaker 2>turning his you know, two bed, two bath house into

0:11:35.396 --> 0:11:36.956
<v Speaker 2>a two bed, two and a half bath house.

0:11:37.156 --> 0:11:38.916
<v Speaker 1>So we'll talk more about the physical thing that you

0:11:38.996 --> 0:11:41.876
<v Speaker 1>build in a thick but there is this other problem, right,

0:11:41.956 --> 0:11:45.756
<v Speaker 1>how do you keep it from getting ruined by some

0:11:45.916 --> 0:11:47.036
<v Speaker 1>small number of people.

0:11:47.356 --> 0:11:50.196
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and this is a difficult problem to solve.

0:11:50.236 --> 0:11:52.916
<v Speaker 1>Seems harder than the physical piece at some level, or

0:11:52.956 --> 0:11:54.276
<v Speaker 1>more complicated or something.

0:11:54.436 --> 0:11:58.756
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, there is a social science aspect to this, there's

0:11:58.756 --> 0:12:01.796
<v Speaker 2>an accountability aspect to this, and I think we focused

0:12:01.956 --> 0:12:05.596
<v Speaker 2>our early experiments on sort of those areas. And I

0:12:05.596 --> 0:12:08.476
<v Speaker 2>think the difficult thing you have to give up when

0:12:08.756 --> 0:12:11.836
<v Speaker 2>sort of being excited about this concept a throne is,

0:12:12.516 --> 0:12:14.756
<v Speaker 2>you know, attaching some form of accountability to your actions

0:12:14.796 --> 0:12:17.836
<v Speaker 2>in a public space. And in order to do that,

0:12:18.636 --> 0:12:21.956
<v Speaker 2>many of our users enter via some sort of phone number,

0:12:22.116 --> 0:12:25.356
<v Speaker 2>basically an SMS access system. But what that allows us

0:12:25.396 --> 0:12:27.676
<v Speaker 2>to do is a you know, kind of create the

0:12:27.716 --> 0:12:31.436
<v Speaker 2>sense of let's create a loyal, conscientious user base.

0:12:31.556 --> 0:12:33.876
<v Speaker 1>And just to be clear, the point of using a

0:12:33.876 --> 0:12:36.356
<v Speaker 1>phone number is most people have one phone number, So

0:12:36.396 --> 0:12:40.596
<v Speaker 1>it's essentially tying you using the bathroom to your identity.

0:12:40.916 --> 0:12:43.796
<v Speaker 1>You are not an anonymous, truly anonymous user. You are

0:12:43.876 --> 0:12:48.196
<v Speaker 1>one distinct person trackable at some level using the toilet.

0:12:48.356 --> 0:12:50.276
<v Speaker 2>Well, we don't care about your name, we don't care

0:12:50.276 --> 0:12:52.596
<v Speaker 2>about your occupation, we don't want to know anything else

0:12:52.636 --> 0:12:54.996
<v Speaker 2>about you. But you're not going to go get a

0:12:55.036 --> 0:12:56.756
<v Speaker 2>new phone number just to use it.

0:12:56.796 --> 0:12:58.436
<v Speaker 1>So what do you want to know though, Well, like

0:12:58.476 --> 0:13:00.196
<v Speaker 1>why do you want my phone number for me to

0:13:00.196 --> 0:13:00.836
<v Speaker 1>go to the bathroom?

0:13:00.876 --> 0:13:03.316
<v Speaker 2>So two reasons number one and actually this is not

0:13:03.356 --> 0:13:05.516
<v Speaker 2>as much the accountability. We want to ask you how

0:13:05.516 --> 0:13:08.236
<v Speaker 2>clean the bathroom is, and if you enter via phone number,

0:13:08.516 --> 0:13:11.236
<v Speaker 2>a huge percent of people tell us in hilarious detail

0:13:11.236 --> 0:13:14.036
<v Speaker 2>what's going on inside there. So that's another piece of this.

0:13:14.276 --> 0:13:16.516
<v Speaker 1>Like so you text me afterwards and say how is it?

0:13:16.556 --> 0:13:17.436
<v Speaker 1>And I text you back.

0:13:17.676 --> 0:13:19.356
<v Speaker 2>We text you as you go in, how clean is

0:13:19.356 --> 0:13:20.876
<v Speaker 2>the throne or how does the throne smell? And we

0:13:20.916 --> 0:13:24.076
<v Speaker 2>can ask different questions and people tell us they are

0:13:24.156 --> 0:13:26.756
<v Speaker 2>eyes and ears, and we have a roaming labor force

0:13:26.796 --> 0:13:29.636
<v Speaker 2>that is reacting in real time to those prompts.

0:13:29.716 --> 0:13:30.636
<v Speaker 1>So that's one reason.

0:13:30.756 --> 0:13:33.956
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The other is for the less than one percent

0:13:33.996 --> 0:13:36.916
<v Speaker 2>of people that are just not treating this like they

0:13:36.916 --> 0:13:40.716
<v Speaker 2>would their home bathroom or using it for things outside

0:13:40.716 --> 0:13:44.196
<v Speaker 2>of our sort of general terms and conditions. We can

0:13:44.236 --> 0:13:46.916
<v Speaker 2>warn and block those users, and it's a very small percent.

0:13:47.396 --> 0:13:50.516
<v Speaker 2>This is things like refusing to leave drug use and

0:13:50.636 --> 0:13:55.596
<v Speaker 2>leaving drug paraphernalia behind, other activities outside of bathroom use,

0:13:55.596 --> 0:13:59.356
<v Speaker 2>and so there's obviously a technology problem of how can

0:13:59.396 --> 0:14:02.996
<v Speaker 2>you understand who's doing those things without any creepiness, And

0:14:02.996 --> 0:14:04.996
<v Speaker 2>so one of our company values is don't be creepy.

0:14:05.436 --> 0:14:08.116
<v Speaker 2>There's no cameras, no microphone on the inside or anything

0:14:08.156 --> 0:14:11.796
<v Speaker 2>like that, but like refusing to leave pretty easy to know.

0:14:12.716 --> 0:14:16.396
<v Speaker 2>And by piecing together sort of the comments from each

0:14:16.516 --> 0:14:19.116
<v Speaker 2>user and knowing which, you know, phone number was associated

0:14:19.116 --> 0:14:21.516
<v Speaker 2>with each use, you can start to pick up sort

0:14:21.556 --> 0:14:24.036
<v Speaker 2>of statistically, people that are constantly the problem.

0:14:24.356 --> 0:14:26.876
<v Speaker 1>Basically if the person who comes in after you says

0:14:27.316 --> 0:14:29.756
<v Speaker 1>it was totally disgusting, or there is a needle on

0:14:29.796 --> 0:14:33.076
<v Speaker 1>the floor that gets pinned to the previous user. Just

0:14:33.516 --> 0:14:36.236
<v Speaker 1>to be clear, I mean that seems like the simple version.

0:14:36.036 --> 0:14:39.116
<v Speaker 2>It gets flagged to the previous group of users, And

0:14:39.196 --> 0:14:41.796
<v Speaker 2>if you happen to be in a group over and over,

0:14:41.956 --> 0:14:44.476
<v Speaker 2>that is that is the yellow flag eventually becomes a

0:14:44.516 --> 0:14:44.956
<v Speaker 2>red flag.

0:14:45.196 --> 0:14:47.196
<v Speaker 1>What percent of users wind up getting.

0:14:46.956 --> 0:14:49.836
<v Speaker 2>Flagged zero point one percent of users, one in a thousand.

0:14:50.236 --> 0:14:54.636
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's it take to get banned? Really?

0:14:54.716 --> 0:14:59.836
<v Speaker 2>It is repeated violation of these types of terms and additions,

0:14:59.916 --> 0:15:02.916
<v Speaker 2>or one really bad incident, and sometimes It's as simple

0:15:02.956 --> 0:15:05.796
<v Speaker 2>as one of our customers. The city will say, you know,

0:15:05.876 --> 0:15:08.156
<v Speaker 2>the user that used the throne at ten forty two

0:15:08.276 --> 0:15:11.596
<v Speaker 2>did X, Y and z, and sometimes that will lead

0:15:11.636 --> 0:15:14.276
<v Speaker 2>to a ban. I didn't mention this. Another reason to

0:15:14.356 --> 0:15:17.676
<v Speaker 2>make a bathroom smart is you can do things like

0:15:17.756 --> 0:15:21.076
<v Speaker 2>the following. Our door is an automatic sliding door. It

0:15:21.156 --> 0:15:23.316
<v Speaker 2>sort of acts as the bouncer. That's a safety precaution.

0:15:23.396 --> 0:15:26.556
<v Speaker 2>You don't want people coming in right after you. And

0:15:26.596 --> 0:15:30.396
<v Speaker 2>then also there are incidents of overdose and it's actually

0:15:30.556 --> 0:15:33.596
<v Speaker 2>really great feature that eventually the door will open and

0:15:33.636 --> 0:15:35.676
<v Speaker 2>people will find you. And that has happened many times

0:15:35.836 --> 0:15:37.836
<v Speaker 2>and lives have been saved actually with that feature.

0:15:38.116 --> 0:15:40.636
<v Speaker 1>So you can't like manually lock it from the inside,

0:15:40.636 --> 0:15:42.876
<v Speaker 1>is what you're saying. At some point. It's like an

0:15:42.996 --> 0:15:44.476
<v Speaker 1>electronic lock exactly.

0:15:44.516 --> 0:15:47.156
<v Speaker 2>And that's another big one. We sort of control the

0:15:47.156 --> 0:15:50.676
<v Speaker 2>locking system. An audio feature will tell you, you know, the

0:15:50.716 --> 0:15:54.276
<v Speaker 2>door will close and lock behind you, and we warn people,

0:15:55.116 --> 0:15:57.316
<v Speaker 2>you know, very much before that happens, and the city

0:15:57.316 --> 0:15:59.236
<v Speaker 2>actually gets to set the time limit they want. And

0:15:59.236 --> 0:16:02.716
<v Speaker 2>this is a piece of our technology that rubs some

0:16:02.756 --> 0:16:05.396
<v Speaker 2>people the wrong way. It's one of these crazy trade

0:16:05.396 --> 0:16:07.756
<v Speaker 2>offs and when you're dealing in the bathroom world. But

0:16:08.516 --> 0:16:11.036
<v Speaker 2>if you don't do that, there are real safety concerns

0:16:11.436 --> 0:16:14.276
<v Speaker 2>and people will stay there overnight and whatnot. And so

0:16:14.676 --> 0:16:16.876
<v Speaker 2>we try to provide a good amount of time and

0:16:16.916 --> 0:16:19.956
<v Speaker 2>a lot of notice. But again it helps when there

0:16:19.996 --> 0:16:22.636
<v Speaker 2>is a safety issue there where in a normal locking,

0:16:22.676 --> 0:16:24.836
<v Speaker 2>manual locking bathroom, a lot of people are just found

0:16:24.836 --> 0:16:26.996
<v Speaker 2>in the morning dead right when there's an overdose.

0:16:27.756 --> 0:16:31.916
<v Speaker 1>So how long do cities choose to let people stay

0:16:31.916 --> 0:16:33.756
<v Speaker 1>in the bathroom before it automatically opens?

0:16:34.156 --> 0:16:36.396
<v Speaker 2>Ten minutes is the shortest we use, and in some

0:16:36.436 --> 0:16:38.316
<v Speaker 2>cities fifteen or no time limit.

0:16:38.316 --> 0:16:41.836
<v Speaker 1>Okay, And is there like just a small question that

0:16:41.876 --> 0:16:45.076
<v Speaker 1>comes to mind, like a manual override? If I'm in there,

0:16:45.076 --> 0:16:47.116
<v Speaker 1>can I unlock it if I want manually?

0:16:47.396 --> 0:16:50.716
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so for anyone who's claustrophobic and thinking this is

0:16:50.716 --> 0:16:53.116
<v Speaker 2>my nightmare, there's a manual handle to get out. It's

0:16:53.156 --> 0:16:55.356
<v Speaker 2>more just that you can't lock it and stop people

0:16:55.356 --> 0:16:58.796
<v Speaker 2>from coming in after the ten or fifteen minute timeline.

0:16:59.196 --> 0:17:02.476
<v Speaker 1>What has been like surprising to you about this sort

0:17:02.516 --> 0:17:04.436
<v Speaker 1>of social dynamics piece of it.

0:17:05.036 --> 0:17:08.036
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's not what society might think would

0:17:08.076 --> 0:17:10.636
<v Speaker 2>be the person causing the most problems I think is

0:17:10.676 --> 0:17:15.476
<v Speaker 2>one of them. We have had city officials, one city

0:17:15.516 --> 0:17:18.596
<v Speaker 2>official and obviously not going to talk about which very

0:17:18.636 --> 0:17:21.996
<v Speaker 2>early on, where like that was the person that was

0:17:22.036 --> 0:17:24.716
<v Speaker 2>causing problems and we stood firm, you know, you're not

0:17:24.796 --> 0:17:27.396
<v Speaker 2>using our bathroom anymore. I think on the flip side,

0:17:27.516 --> 0:17:30.116
<v Speaker 2>I always get the question of like, homeless people are

0:17:30.116 --> 0:17:31.836
<v Speaker 2>always are just going to ruin this thing, and that

0:17:31.996 --> 0:17:34.116
<v Speaker 2>is not the case. I think we have found. We've

0:17:34.116 --> 0:17:37.916
<v Speaker 2>put these in a lot of locations that have historically

0:17:37.956 --> 0:17:39.676
<v Speaker 2>not been able to have bathrooms because of all the

0:17:39.756 --> 0:17:42.356
<v Speaker 2>issues I mentioned with traditional brick and mortar where they

0:17:42.356 --> 0:17:45.796
<v Speaker 2>were having to post up security guards outside, which is

0:17:45.876 --> 0:17:48.316
<v Speaker 2>just not cost effective. And what we found when we

0:17:48.356 --> 0:17:51.316
<v Speaker 2>put in these communities one example is sort of west

0:17:51.356 --> 0:17:55.076
<v Speaker 2>Lake MacArthur Park in Los Angeles, is the people that

0:17:55.596 --> 0:17:58.436
<v Speaker 2>spend a lot of time there become our advocates. They

0:17:58.516 --> 0:18:00.316
<v Speaker 2>come up to our cleaners and say like, we love

0:18:00.356 --> 0:18:02.756
<v Speaker 2>this and oh, by the way, this person's causing problems.

0:18:03.116 --> 0:18:06.596
<v Speaker 2>And it's so impactful for people that don't have regular

0:18:06.596 --> 0:18:08.996
<v Speaker 2>access to a bathroom or have to feel some sort

0:18:08.996 --> 0:18:11.756
<v Speaker 2>of maybe shamed to walk into an establishment to use

0:18:11.796 --> 0:18:14.396
<v Speaker 2>their bathroom. It is not as easy for everyone to

0:18:14.476 --> 0:18:17.516
<v Speaker 2>do that. They do want nice things, and there are

0:18:17.556 --> 0:18:20.596
<v Speaker 2>sort of greatest advocates and so happy about it, and

0:18:20.596 --> 0:18:23.156
<v Speaker 2>that's something that a lot of people maybe wouldn't have

0:18:23.156 --> 0:18:23.876
<v Speaker 2>thought of from the start.

0:18:24.956 --> 0:18:26.996
<v Speaker 1>What do you do for people who don't have phones?

0:18:27.276 --> 0:18:29.156
<v Speaker 2>It's a big one. Not everyone has regular access to

0:18:29.196 --> 0:18:31.636
<v Speaker 2>a phone. It is my co founder, Jess knows. The

0:18:31.716 --> 0:18:34.356
<v Speaker 2>number is better than me. Something like ninety two percent

0:18:34.356 --> 0:18:37.996
<v Speaker 2>of people in urban areas have phones, but not everyone

0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:40.316
<v Speaker 2>has a charged phone. And so we hand out TAP

0:18:40.356 --> 0:18:44.876
<v Speaker 2>cards at various community service organizations or often in partnership

0:18:44.916 --> 0:18:47.716
<v Speaker 2>with the city. Sometimes we even set up tables with education.

0:18:48.196 --> 0:18:50.916
<v Speaker 2>Here's a card. It'll get into any throne for free.

0:18:50.956 --> 0:18:52.436
<v Speaker 2>You can use it as many times as you want,

0:18:52.476 --> 0:18:54.756
<v Speaker 2>but we still can revoke access. So don't hand it

0:18:54.796 --> 0:18:57.076
<v Speaker 2>to a friend, and don't do anything bad in the throne.

0:18:57.196 --> 0:18:59.396
<v Speaker 1>I mean, couldn't you just do something bad and then

0:18:59.396 --> 0:19:00.236
<v Speaker 1>get another card.

0:19:00.836 --> 0:19:03.636
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And the idea here isn't to prevent people who

0:19:03.676 --> 0:19:05.876
<v Speaker 2>make one mistake to ever use the bathroom again. The

0:19:05.916 --> 0:19:09.196
<v Speaker 2>idea is to put some friction, some feeling of I

0:19:09.276 --> 0:19:11.276
<v Speaker 2>might as well just clean up a little bit after

0:19:11.316 --> 0:19:14.076
<v Speaker 2>myself use this bathroom for what it's needed, and that

0:19:14.196 --> 0:19:17.596
<v Speaker 2>alone is sort of a power law improvement on how

0:19:17.676 --> 0:19:19.516
<v Speaker 2>likely the bathroom is to stay nice and clean.

0:19:22.636 --> 0:19:33.836
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back in just a minute. What's the thing

0:19:33.836 --> 0:19:35.196
<v Speaker 1>that you tried that didn't work?

0:19:37.356 --> 0:19:42.716
<v Speaker 2>Forcing people to download an app to use a bathroom.

0:19:41.156 --> 0:19:43.956
<v Speaker 1>That seems like a reasonable proposition. I mean maybe it's

0:19:44.876 --> 0:19:46.796
<v Speaker 1>maybe you have to be a regular use. I don't know.

0:19:46.916 --> 0:19:48.876
<v Speaker 1>I would think that that might work.

0:19:48.956 --> 0:19:50.876
<v Speaker 2>I would do it, and we have an app and

0:19:50.916 --> 0:19:52.996
<v Speaker 2>people do use it. Uber drivers love it because it

0:19:53.076 --> 0:19:56.476
<v Speaker 2>lets you, you know, see where other bathrooms are across

0:19:56.516 --> 0:19:59.516
<v Speaker 2>the city. And my favorite memory is walking through Ann Arbor,

0:19:59.596 --> 0:20:01.636
<v Speaker 2>Michigan and seeing an Uber driver pull up to and

0:20:01.676 --> 0:20:03.676
<v Speaker 2>thrown and the door opens as he's getting out of

0:20:03.676 --> 0:20:06.156
<v Speaker 2>his car, clearly showing that you know, he's been doing

0:20:06.156 --> 0:20:08.516
<v Speaker 2>that every day and knows exactly the timing of hitting.

0:20:08.356 --> 0:20:11.516
<v Speaker 1>So like he's opened on his app from the car

0:20:11.596 --> 0:20:12.396
<v Speaker 1>and yeah.

0:20:12.876 --> 0:20:16.236
<v Speaker 2>I was just like, we've arrived. But I think early days,

0:20:16.236 --> 0:20:19.796
<v Speaker 2>we put one in Georgetown in DC at a farmer's market,

0:20:20.116 --> 0:20:22.916
<v Speaker 2>back when you had to download an app and it's crowded.

0:20:22.996 --> 0:20:26.316
<v Speaker 2>It takes four minutes to download an app. Sometimes people

0:20:26.356 --> 0:20:28.756
<v Speaker 2>are so angry when you have to pee and download

0:20:28.796 --> 0:20:31.556
<v Speaker 2>an app that like, we were shamed. I was about

0:20:31.596 --> 0:20:34.596
<v Speaker 2>to take my throne shirt off and hide. But it

0:20:34.596 --> 0:20:36.916
<v Speaker 2>was a great learning and that's when we installed the

0:20:36.956 --> 0:20:39.996
<v Speaker 2>Paul Wilson rule. That my dad is Paul Wilson, seventy

0:20:39.996 --> 0:20:42.596
<v Speaker 2>six year old man, not the most facile with technology,

0:20:42.636 --> 0:20:44.396
<v Speaker 2>and we said, Paul Wilson better be able to get

0:20:44.396 --> 0:20:45.476
<v Speaker 2>in in ten seconds or less.

0:20:45.636 --> 0:20:47.516
<v Speaker 1>Uh huh. So how does it work now?

0:20:47.836 --> 0:20:49.596
<v Speaker 2>So you walk up to a throne, it will say

0:20:49.876 --> 0:20:53.556
<v Speaker 2>free bathrooms, scan to use, and there's a large QR code.

0:20:53.996 --> 0:20:57.276
<v Speaker 2>You scan the QR code, it automatically pulls up your

0:20:57.436 --> 0:21:00.676
<v Speaker 2>SMS module with a phone number already prepopulated and a

0:21:00.676 --> 0:21:02.516
<v Speaker 2>message prepopulated.

0:21:01.956 --> 0:21:03.916
<v Speaker 1>SMS module meaning a text.

0:21:03.716 --> 0:21:07.956
<v Speaker 2>A text yeah sorry send, it'll say send this message

0:21:07.956 --> 0:21:09.956
<v Speaker 2>to use the throne. All you do is scan a

0:21:09.996 --> 0:21:13.076
<v Speaker 2>QR code, hit s end and this door opens. A

0:21:13.196 --> 0:21:16.036
<v Speaker 2>chime welcomes you, and a voice welcomes you, and you

0:21:16.076 --> 0:21:18.916
<v Speaker 2>walk in. The door slides behind you. You have a

0:21:18.916 --> 0:21:22.516
<v Speaker 2>flushing toilet, a running water, sink, music, You use the

0:21:22.516 --> 0:21:25.396
<v Speaker 2>bathroom and everything is touchless, and you even wave to exit.

0:21:25.476 --> 0:21:25.996
<v Speaker 2>On the way out.

0:21:26.156 --> 0:21:28.676
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk a little bit more about the physical thing.

0:21:28.756 --> 0:21:31.476
<v Speaker 1>Since we're in the room now, does it smell like

0:21:31.476 --> 0:21:33.036
<v Speaker 1>a porta potty? Tell me the truth?

0:21:34.636 --> 0:21:38.236
<v Speaker 2>No, Okay, our smell score right now is four point

0:21:38.276 --> 0:21:40.676
<v Speaker 2>one out of five. So we have quantitative answers.

0:21:40.356 --> 0:21:42.796
<v Speaker 1>To this, and physically, how do you make that work?

0:21:42.876 --> 0:21:44.196
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

0:21:44.436 --> 0:21:47.556
<v Speaker 1>Your bathroom is not connected to the water or the

0:21:47.556 --> 0:21:50.076
<v Speaker 1>sewer system of the city, right, so, like what's going

0:21:50.116 --> 0:21:52.476
<v Speaker 1>on kind of behind the scenes. It just looks like

0:21:52.476 --> 0:21:53.036
<v Speaker 1>a bathroom.

0:21:53.076 --> 0:21:56.396
<v Speaker 2>Basically, it looks like a bathroom. It looks like a cube.

0:21:56.596 --> 0:21:59.396
<v Speaker 2>It is eight feet by ten feet by nine feet.

0:22:00.036 --> 0:22:02.716
<v Speaker 3>It's a pretty big bathroom, right, that's pretty big for

0:22:02.756 --> 0:22:03.236
<v Speaker 3>a bathroom.

0:22:03.356 --> 0:22:05.636
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a pretty large bathroom. It has a ramp

0:22:05.676 --> 0:22:07.756
<v Speaker 2>and it's fully eighty eight compliance. Most people say it's

0:22:07.836 --> 0:22:09.676
<v Speaker 2>much bigger than I thought. It would be like four

0:22:09.676 --> 0:22:12.996
<v Speaker 2>porta potties, maybe five or six actually in square footage.

0:22:13.276 --> 0:22:15.876
<v Speaker 2>And there's you know, vinyl wrapping design on the outside

0:22:15.876 --> 0:22:18.196
<v Speaker 2>and sort of these instructions to get in as you

0:22:18.276 --> 0:22:22.236
<v Speaker 2>walk in. We have this kind of jungle print wallpaper feel.

0:22:22.796 --> 0:22:26.556
<v Speaker 2>All of this is intentionally designed to kind of dissuade graffiti.

0:22:27.396 --> 0:22:30.276
<v Speaker 2>All of it is anti graffiti coated, so if someone

0:22:30.316 --> 0:22:32.396
<v Speaker 2>does do something, we can sort of wash it away

0:22:32.396 --> 0:22:36.356
<v Speaker 2>with isopropyl alcohol or slap another leaf sticker on top.

0:22:36.876 --> 0:22:39.516
<v Speaker 2>Is another cool tactic that we've learned, you know. As

0:22:39.636 --> 0:22:43.236
<v Speaker 2>for your question about smell, I'd say our earlier units,

0:22:43.236 --> 0:22:45.676
<v Speaker 2>and the only reason I hesitated is we're a company

0:22:45.716 --> 0:22:47.956
<v Speaker 2>iterating all the time. Our earlier units were not as

0:22:47.956 --> 0:22:50.556
<v Speaker 2>good about isolating these bad smells when you are holding

0:22:50.796 --> 0:22:53.396
<v Speaker 2>a large amount of waste on board. But we've gotten

0:22:53.396 --> 0:22:55.436
<v Speaker 2>so much better, so our new units do not smell

0:22:55.716 --> 0:22:56.476
<v Speaker 2>like a porta potty?

0:22:56.516 --> 0:22:58.676
<v Speaker 1>How does it work? Like, how does the plumbing work?

0:22:58.716 --> 0:23:01.916
<v Speaker 2>You flush a toilet? We do use a vacuum assisted flush,

0:23:02.156 --> 0:23:04.316
<v Speaker 2>so it still has water, but it's about a quarter

0:23:04.356 --> 0:23:05.996
<v Speaker 2>of the water usage per flush.

0:23:06.116 --> 0:23:08.236
<v Speaker 1>So like on a plane, is it that kind of

0:23:08.316 --> 0:23:09.676
<v Speaker 1>vibe question?

0:23:10.036 --> 0:23:12.036
<v Speaker 2>In the design sessions, I said, I don't want this

0:23:12.116 --> 0:23:14.476
<v Speaker 2>to feel like a plane. There's a whole nother tangent

0:23:14.516 --> 0:23:16.876
<v Speaker 2>there about why that's so loud and the kind of

0:23:17.156 --> 0:23:19.956
<v Speaker 2>HydroD and namics happening there. But no, it's not quite

0:23:20.036 --> 0:23:23.356
<v Speaker 2>that intense. It's more just a light pull to allow

0:23:23.516 --> 0:23:26.156
<v Speaker 2>kind of a quarter gallon of water to flush, which

0:23:26.196 --> 0:23:27.356
<v Speaker 2>is very important, right.

0:23:27.236 --> 0:23:29.316
<v Speaker 1>You need less water because you just have a tank

0:23:29.356 --> 0:23:31.756
<v Speaker 1>of water there on the building such as it is, right,

0:23:31.796 --> 0:23:33.796
<v Speaker 1>you don't have you have a very limited water.

0:23:33.636 --> 0:23:37.876
<v Speaker 2>Supply, yes, yeah, And so it flushes through a macerat

0:23:37.956 --> 0:23:40.396
<v Speaker 2>or a system. So we're this, you know, if you're

0:23:40.436 --> 0:23:45.356
<v Speaker 2>eating breakfast, sorry, we kind of grind up what's going

0:23:45.356 --> 0:23:48.676
<v Speaker 2>down there, which is helpful also if people put unwanted

0:23:48.676 --> 0:23:51.756
<v Speaker 2>items down the toilet. And this is a very robust system.

0:23:51.756 --> 0:23:54.316
<v Speaker 2>It's it's our most expensive component on the unit, which

0:23:54.356 --> 0:23:56.356
<v Speaker 2>is sort of grinding things up and then using pumps

0:23:56.396 --> 0:23:58.556
<v Speaker 2>to pump it into a separate, large holding tank. And

0:23:58.636 --> 0:24:00.556
<v Speaker 2>all of these things have sensors and in the back

0:24:00.636 --> 0:24:03.036
<v Speaker 2>end we know when we need to add fresh water

0:24:03.116 --> 0:24:05.676
<v Speaker 2>or pump the waste. And then you know, all the

0:24:05.756 --> 0:24:09.236
<v Speaker 2>traditional indoor plumbing techniques to keep smells from seeping in

0:24:09.356 --> 0:24:13.356
<v Speaker 2>are used, plus some since we're holding you know, basically

0:24:13.396 --> 0:24:16.676
<v Speaker 2>a septic tank on board to kind of extra ventilate

0:24:16.876 --> 0:24:19.556
<v Speaker 2>the system. And then you know, the other solved to

0:24:19.596 --> 0:24:21.796
<v Speaker 2>this is just ask people when it smells. And so

0:24:21.836 --> 0:24:24.516
<v Speaker 2>every once in a while, particularly at low use units

0:24:24.516 --> 0:24:26.916
<v Speaker 2>where we have to pump less frequently, and that ways

0:24:26.956 --> 0:24:29.556
<v Speaker 2>to sitting there longer. We'll a user every once in

0:24:29.556 --> 0:24:31.116
<v Speaker 2>a while will say it's starting to smell, and we

0:24:31.156 --> 0:24:33.596
<v Speaker 2>will go clean the tanks or pump and kind of

0:24:33.596 --> 0:24:34.076
<v Speaker 2>do a clean.

0:24:34.396 --> 0:24:36.716
<v Speaker 1>And then what happens when you leave? So you go

0:24:36.756 --> 0:24:39.156
<v Speaker 1>to the bathroom, you just open the door manually right

0:24:39.236 --> 0:24:41.876
<v Speaker 1>to get out, and then what happens.

0:24:41.996 --> 0:24:44.476
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you either wave at a censor so you don't

0:24:44.516 --> 0:24:46.956
<v Speaker 2>have to touch anything the whole experience, or use a

0:24:46.956 --> 0:24:50.836
<v Speaker 2>manual lever to leave. That's when you'll get this text

0:24:50.876 --> 0:24:52.956
<v Speaker 2>how clean was your throne? And we're only going to

0:24:52.956 --> 0:24:54.836
<v Speaker 2>bother you once, but it helps to get a one

0:24:54.836 --> 0:24:57.796
<v Speaker 2>to five score on cleanliness. And that's really it. The

0:24:57.836 --> 0:24:59.756
<v Speaker 2>door is going to close behind you, and if there's

0:24:59.756 --> 0:25:02.596
<v Speaker 2>someone else waiting on the ramp, they'll walk in next

0:25:03.276 --> 0:25:06.636
<v Speaker 2>on a separate use account. Right, But that's pretty much it.

0:25:06.676 --> 0:25:08.636
<v Speaker 2>You're on with your day and we've solved your problem.

0:25:09.156 --> 0:25:12.956
<v Speaker 1>What percent of people reply to the how was it? Text?

0:25:13.596 --> 0:25:16.596
<v Speaker 2>Thirty to forty percent of text users and sixty to

0:25:16.636 --> 0:25:18.276
<v Speaker 2>seventy percent of app users.

0:25:19.516 --> 0:25:22.236
<v Speaker 1>So about half yeah, which I guess is a lot

0:25:22.276 --> 0:25:24.796
<v Speaker 1>replying to a random text about a toilet.

0:25:24.716 --> 0:25:26.636
<v Speaker 2>And it's all we need. And I think the more

0:25:26.676 --> 0:25:30.156
<v Speaker 2>important piece is it's probably biased. Negative people are more

0:25:30.196 --> 0:25:33.756
<v Speaker 2>likely to tell you when something's wrong. And the open

0:25:33.836 --> 0:25:36.356
<v Speaker 2>text part, you know, you should see the messages we get.

0:25:36.396 --> 0:25:38.796
<v Speaker 2>It's definitely a fun part of my end of my

0:25:38.916 --> 0:25:40.676
<v Speaker 2>day to have a glass of wine and look through

0:25:40.716 --> 0:25:44.076
<v Speaker 2>the comments. But you know, people tell you know, sometimes

0:25:44.076 --> 0:25:47.276
<v Speaker 2>it's just nice things about thanks for providing the service,

0:25:47.276 --> 0:25:51.076
<v Speaker 2>but sometimes it's hilarious details about something that needs help.

0:25:51.116 --> 0:25:53.876
<v Speaker 2>And so our users are our best sensors by far.

0:25:54.156 --> 0:25:56.996
<v Speaker 3>So where's the company now? Like, how many bathrooms do

0:25:57.036 --> 0:25:57.956
<v Speaker 3>you have out in the world.

0:25:57.836 --> 0:25:58.636
<v Speaker 1>And where are they?

0:25:58.876 --> 0:26:02.516
<v Speaker 2>We have seventy four bathrooms across four metropolitan areas right now.

0:26:03.316 --> 0:26:07.596
<v Speaker 2>We're in DC, LA, the Bay Area and ann Arbor, Detroit,

0:26:08.476 --> 0:26:12.236
<v Speaker 2>and you know, designing where to set up shop because

0:26:12.596 --> 0:26:14.436
<v Speaker 2>you might have realized by now we have a pretty

0:26:14.436 --> 0:26:17.316
<v Speaker 2>significant operation. Right We controlled the entire design of the system.

0:26:17.836 --> 0:26:20.916
<v Speaker 2>We partner with the manufacturer, Satellite Industries to build them

0:26:21.396 --> 0:26:22.956
<v Speaker 2>and then we ship them to the city. But then

0:26:22.996 --> 0:26:25.476
<v Speaker 2>we have local ops team to run, the clean team,

0:26:25.636 --> 0:26:28.396
<v Speaker 2>the pumping operations team, and the technician team.

0:26:28.836 --> 0:26:33.396
<v Speaker 1>Presumably you need some density of toilets for that to

0:26:33.476 --> 0:26:36.716
<v Speaker 1>be at all economical. Right, you can't have one then

0:26:36.956 --> 0:26:38.996
<v Speaker 1>it's too expensive.

0:26:38.676 --> 0:26:42.116
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, And around ten to fifteen units is sort of

0:26:42.116 --> 0:26:45.996
<v Speaker 2>the starting point to justify our setting up local operations.

0:26:45.996 --> 0:26:49.396
<v Speaker 1>And what's it cost and what's the business model? More generally, like,

0:26:49.436 --> 0:26:50.716
<v Speaker 1>how's how's the money side work?

0:26:51.596 --> 0:26:54.196
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we've kind of taken i'd say the high

0:26:54.276 --> 0:26:57.076
<v Speaker 2>risk but long term value approach here, which is a

0:26:57.076 --> 0:27:00.476
<v Speaker 2>recurring revenue business model. And so that's what's very different about.

0:27:00.316 --> 0:27:03.356
<v Speaker 1>That means toilets as a service, toilets as.

0:27:03.316 --> 0:27:07.156
<v Speaker 2>A service, and you mentioned the New York bathroom. You know,

0:27:07.236 --> 0:27:08.956
<v Speaker 2>those are companies that are just selling a piece of

0:27:08.956 --> 0:27:10.636
<v Speaker 2>hard hardware and then the city is in charge of

0:27:10.676 --> 0:27:12.436
<v Speaker 2>doing all the insulation and by the way, all the

0:27:12.476 --> 0:27:14.596
<v Speaker 2>cleaning and servicing. So a big part of our value

0:27:14.596 --> 0:27:17.796
<v Speaker 2>proposition is we take care of everything. But that means

0:27:17.836 --> 0:27:19.956
<v Speaker 2>we get sort of a monthly piece of revenue from

0:27:19.996 --> 0:27:22.676
<v Speaker 2>the city, which is based on how difficult that location

0:27:22.796 --> 0:27:25.676
<v Speaker 2>is that might be high usage or an environment that's

0:27:25.676 --> 0:27:27.636
<v Speaker 2>just going to take more oversight.

0:27:27.756 --> 0:27:29.756
<v Speaker 1>If that makes sense, what's the cost to have one

0:27:29.756 --> 0:27:32.156
<v Speaker 1>of your toilets for a year, Like if I buy

0:27:32.156 --> 0:27:34.996
<v Speaker 1>whatever more or less, what's the range for the city.

0:27:35.036 --> 0:27:37.636
<v Speaker 2>Fifty to one hundred thousand dollars a year per bathroom.

0:27:37.316 --> 0:27:40.356
<v Speaker 1>Okay, which, like if I didn't know how messed up

0:27:40.396 --> 0:27:42.596
<v Speaker 1>cities were, would seem like a lot to me, right,

0:27:42.796 --> 0:27:46.636
<v Speaker 1>like whatever, seventy five thousand dollars to have one toilet

0:27:46.716 --> 0:27:49.596
<v Speaker 1>for a year. On a certain level, it's crazy.

0:27:49.636 --> 0:27:52.236
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying it's a bad deal relative to the alternatives,

0:27:52.276 --> 0:27:55.476
<v Speaker 3>but just in the abstract, it's sad that that's what

0:27:55.596 --> 0:27:58.276
<v Speaker 3>we've come to at sub level. Not your fault, right,

0:27:58.316 --> 0:28:01.236
<v Speaker 3>I'm not this is not your but it is wild

0:28:01.276 --> 0:28:01.956
<v Speaker 3>at some level.

0:28:01.996 --> 0:28:05.156
<v Speaker 2>No, I think there is the sticker shock idea. I

0:28:05.156 --> 0:28:07.316
<v Speaker 2>think people underestimate how hard it is to provide a

0:28:07.396 --> 0:28:11.876
<v Speaker 2>nice bathroom for the public. But yes, it might feel high. Again,

0:28:12.076 --> 0:28:14.236
<v Speaker 2>what really matters in a market is how much would

0:28:14.236 --> 0:28:16.916
<v Speaker 2>it cost otherwise? And I think the thing we've learned

0:28:16.916 --> 0:28:20.476
<v Speaker 2>in our customers have started learning is there's almost no

0:28:20.556 --> 0:28:24.956
<v Speaker 2>better value to get a ton of public appreciation, no

0:28:24.996 --> 0:28:28.116
<v Speaker 2>matter your political affiliation, than that amount of money for

0:28:28.156 --> 0:28:31.636
<v Speaker 2>all these users to just be surprised with this amenity

0:28:32.076 --> 0:28:33.956
<v Speaker 2>that is actually nice. I think it doesn't work if

0:28:33.956 --> 0:28:36.316
<v Speaker 2>it's a port of body. It has to be surprisingly nice,

0:28:36.636 --> 0:28:38.916
<v Speaker 2>and it has to be in the right location. But

0:28:39.236 --> 0:28:41.956
<v Speaker 2>I think we have to get over that initial sticker shock.

0:28:42.036 --> 0:28:44.316
<v Speaker 2>But we I'll say right now, we have not lost

0:28:44.356 --> 0:28:45.836
<v Speaker 2>one customer in over two years.

0:28:45.876 --> 0:28:48.836
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what I want as a citizen is for

0:28:48.876 --> 0:28:50.996
<v Speaker 1>somebody else to come along into what you're doing, to

0:28:50.996 --> 0:28:53.196
<v Speaker 1>be the lyft to your uber right. I want people

0:28:53.236 --> 0:28:57.036
<v Speaker 1>to get competed down to the marginal cost essentially. I mean,

0:28:57.076 --> 0:29:00.276
<v Speaker 1>presumably also scale will allow you to lower the price

0:29:00.316 --> 0:29:02.876
<v Speaker 1>if somebody is competing with you, right, Like, presumably if

0:29:02.876 --> 0:29:04.636
<v Speaker 1>you could do one hundred in a city, it's going

0:29:04.676 --> 0:29:06.396
<v Speaker 1>to be cheaper for you than ten in a city.

0:29:06.956 --> 0:29:09.516
<v Speaker 2>Yes, to the second point, I think, all so we're

0:29:09.516 --> 0:29:10.716
<v Speaker 2>starting with the hardest spots.

0:29:10.716 --> 0:29:12.436
<v Speaker 1>When you say the hardest spots, what do you mean,

0:29:12.516 --> 0:29:12.796
<v Speaker 1>just to.

0:29:12.756 --> 0:29:17.316
<v Speaker 2>Be clear, extremely high usage and high vandalism potential. I see,

0:29:17.876 --> 0:29:20.356
<v Speaker 2>And I think we will come up with other product

0:29:20.356 --> 0:29:23.196
<v Speaker 2>lines that serve other locations that can be cheaper to

0:29:23.556 --> 0:29:26.796
<v Speaker 2>really satisfy our mission of you know, dramatically expanding bathroom

0:29:26.796 --> 0:29:30.436
<v Speaker 2>access for everybody. So it might sound expensive, but keep

0:29:30.436 --> 0:29:33.516
<v Speaker 2>in mind, that's solving the problem where a security guard

0:29:33.556 --> 0:29:36.316
<v Speaker 2>is typically needed, which which is like twenty thousand dollars

0:29:36.356 --> 0:29:38.276
<v Speaker 2>a month in those locations.

0:29:38.476 --> 0:29:41.636
<v Speaker 1>That's for like round the clock security guard presumably.

0:29:41.276 --> 0:29:42.796
<v Speaker 2>Which is tends to be what it takes in some

0:29:42.836 --> 0:29:45.076
<v Speaker 2>of these locations to have a bathroom not fall apart

0:29:45.076 --> 0:29:46.196
<v Speaker 2>within a couple months.

0:29:46.596 --> 0:29:48.716
<v Speaker 1>I know that you have a couple of patents one

0:29:48.756 --> 0:29:52.156
<v Speaker 1>two three four oh six four four B two Systems

0:29:52.156 --> 0:29:56.556
<v Speaker 1>and Methods for Managing Publicly Accessible Amenities System and Method

0:29:56.596 --> 0:30:00.956
<v Speaker 1>for Advanced Portable Bathroom Facilities pending. Like what is the

0:30:00.956 --> 0:30:02.116
<v Speaker 1>competitive landscape?

0:30:02.236 --> 0:30:05.676
<v Speaker 2>Like? First of all, the hilarious part of the intellectual

0:30:05.676 --> 0:30:08.836
<v Speaker 2>property landscape is like every farmer in America has some

0:30:09.156 --> 0:30:10.916
<v Speaker 2>toilet patent, right.

0:30:12.156 --> 0:30:14.676
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I did wonder about the defensibility of those patents

0:30:14.716 --> 0:30:17.676
<v Speaker 1>to be honest, like, you know, non obviousness to someone

0:30:17.756 --> 0:30:20.436
<v Speaker 1>skilled in the art as a criterion, Right, So I'd

0:30:20.476 --> 0:30:21.556
<v Speaker 1>be curious to see.

0:30:21.716 --> 0:30:24.756
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the white space all comes down to this accountability

0:30:24.796 --> 0:30:27.156
<v Speaker 2>side of things, you know, the how do we use

0:30:27.276 --> 0:30:30.156
<v Speaker 2>a smart piece of hardware to kind of, you know,

0:30:30.316 --> 0:30:34.596
<v Speaker 2>basically manage a distributed bathroom user base. I'd say that's

0:30:34.636 --> 0:30:37.436
<v Speaker 2>more where we focused on the intellectual property side, but

0:30:37.796 --> 0:30:41.436
<v Speaker 2>you know, not trying to kind of patent a sensor

0:30:41.476 --> 0:30:44.076
<v Speaker 2>in a bathroom or something like that. But I think

0:30:44.316 --> 0:30:49.116
<v Speaker 2>broadly the defensibility here is like six or sevenfold, and

0:30:49.156 --> 0:30:51.356
<v Speaker 2>it really comes down to how difficult it is to

0:30:51.396 --> 0:30:55.036
<v Speaker 2>stand up an organization with a scale manufacturing capability, a

0:30:55.036 --> 0:30:59.756
<v Speaker 2>distributed municipal sales and marketing force, and local operations. It's

0:30:59.796 --> 0:31:02.436
<v Speaker 2>just difficult to do all these things. And I think

0:31:03.116 --> 0:31:06.676
<v Speaker 2>no one has has really ever put all the effort

0:31:06.676 --> 0:31:09.436
<v Speaker 2>and by the way, capital risk to get this off

0:31:09.436 --> 0:31:09.916
<v Speaker 2>the ground.

0:31:10.276 --> 0:31:13.876
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you mentioned capital risk, which is particularly pertinent

0:31:13.916 --> 0:31:15.796
<v Speaker 1>given the business model you've chosen. Right, It's not like

0:31:15.836 --> 0:31:18.636
<v Speaker 1>somebody's like, give us a bathroom. Here's a million dollars,

0:31:18.676 --> 0:31:20.316
<v Speaker 1>and you go spend a million dollars to give them

0:31:20.316 --> 0:31:23.396
<v Speaker 1>a bathroom. It's like, we'll pay you whatever, seventy five

0:31:23.396 --> 0:31:25.236
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars a year if you put a bathroom. And

0:31:25.316 --> 0:31:27.276
<v Speaker 1>then so you have to pay for the bathroom up front.

0:31:27.556 --> 0:31:31.076
<v Speaker 1>What's your cost more or less to get that physical bathroom?

0:31:31.276 --> 0:31:33.556
<v Speaker 2>Fifty thousand more or less. And we're working to get

0:31:33.556 --> 0:31:33.876
<v Speaker 2>that down.

0:31:34.036 --> 0:31:35.076
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about growth.

0:31:35.236 --> 0:31:37.476
<v Speaker 2>We're on a little bit of an inflection point. We have, yeah,

0:31:37.476 --> 0:31:40.836
<v Speaker 2>seventy four bathrooms, but another fifty or so already contracted

0:31:40.876 --> 0:31:42.516
<v Speaker 2>and sort of on the way out.

0:31:42.436 --> 0:31:45.236
<v Speaker 1>In that same set of metros, that same set of

0:31:45.396 --> 0:31:46.796
<v Speaker 1>cities exactly.

0:31:47.236 --> 0:31:50.436
<v Speaker 2>But we are kind of prospecting for the next three markets,

0:31:50.476 --> 0:31:53.156
<v Speaker 2>which I think will be you know, in the first

0:31:53.156 --> 0:31:54.356
<v Speaker 2>half of next year.

0:31:54.396 --> 0:31:55.476
<v Speaker 1>New York, New York.

0:31:55.796 --> 0:31:58.876
<v Speaker 2>So New York is buoys it on my list, and

0:31:58.956 --> 0:32:01.476
<v Speaker 2>we've had kind of a long history of discussions. There

0:32:02.196 --> 0:32:07.036
<v Speaker 2>some political uncertainty in that city right now, and it's

0:32:07.076 --> 0:32:10.556
<v Speaker 2>a tricky operational city, so the right kind of deal

0:32:10.676 --> 0:32:12.276
<v Speaker 2>to make it worth our while as well.

0:32:12.396 --> 0:32:15.196
<v Speaker 1>Tree operations just like hard to drive, hard to move.

0:32:15.036 --> 0:32:17.116
<v Speaker 2>Hard to get around in that city, right Yeah, but

0:32:17.276 --> 0:32:19.996
<v Speaker 2>there's also and just each of those units is going

0:32:20.036 --> 0:32:22.116
<v Speaker 2>to be one hundred and seventy uses a day. But

0:32:22.236 --> 0:32:24.076
<v Speaker 2>absolutely we want to come to New York. I think

0:32:24.116 --> 0:32:26.116
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty seven is our goal for New York, if

0:32:26.116 --> 0:32:29.276
<v Speaker 2>anyone's listening, and we would love you know, there's mandates

0:32:29.276 --> 0:32:32.036
<v Speaker 2>in New York to bring two thousand more bathrooms over

0:32:32.076 --> 0:32:33.516
<v Speaker 2>the next ten years, and we'd love to do that

0:32:33.596 --> 0:32:35.756
<v Speaker 2>in one or two years. And we think we have

0:32:35.796 --> 0:32:38.516
<v Speaker 2>the solution for that. But I think what cities to

0:32:38.596 --> 0:32:41.396
<v Speaker 2>choose is a huge question, and we have a lot

0:32:41.396 --> 0:32:43.996
<v Speaker 2>of interesting insights from you know, we've got East coast,

0:32:44.036 --> 0:32:48.316
<v Speaker 2>West coast, we've got cold climate, warm climate, and political differences,

0:32:48.876 --> 0:32:51.556
<v Speaker 2>walk ability, drive ability, all these different things that feed

0:32:51.596 --> 0:32:53.756
<v Speaker 2>into it, I think, and to some extent, we're at

0:32:53.756 --> 0:32:56.036
<v Speaker 2>this place where we have cities a little bit competing

0:32:56.076 --> 0:32:58.676
<v Speaker 2>with each other. You know, do you really want thrown here.

0:32:58.756 --> 0:33:00.476
<v Speaker 2>Let's get fifteen or twenty and we will come to

0:33:00.516 --> 0:33:02.996
<v Speaker 2>you so that we can kind of set up shop

0:33:03.116 --> 0:33:06.956
<v Speaker 2>in an economically efficient way. And there's also the more bathrooms,

0:33:06.956 --> 0:33:08.996
<v Speaker 2>more density, the better service we can provide.

0:33:09.196 --> 0:33:10.916
<v Speaker 1>You think you'll expand beyond toilets.

0:33:11.356 --> 0:33:15.996
<v Speaker 2>No, I think there's so many temptations. An early pitch

0:33:16.076 --> 0:33:19.636
<v Speaker 2>deck I had a sort of food locker for door

0:33:19.676 --> 0:33:21.476
<v Speaker 2>desh to drop food off on the side of the

0:33:21.476 --> 0:33:23.396
<v Speaker 2>outside of the bathroom and people could come pick it up.

0:33:23.396 --> 0:33:25.796
<v Speaker 2>And I had an early investor say, never put food

0:33:25.836 --> 0:33:29.676
<v Speaker 2>next to a bathroom again. So and you know, you

0:33:29.676 --> 0:33:32.156
<v Speaker 2>could do scooter charging, you could do all these other things.

0:33:33.036 --> 0:33:35.116
<v Speaker 2>I think where we have come as sort of a

0:33:35.156 --> 0:33:39.436
<v Speaker 2>management team is there's so many other bathroom problems to

0:33:39.516 --> 0:33:41.756
<v Speaker 2>solve outside of I don't think this will be our

0:33:41.796 --> 0:33:45.556
<v Speaker 2>only product. I think we are really interested in existing

0:33:45.596 --> 0:33:48.636
<v Speaker 2>bathroom infrastructure and how to make that better and in

0:33:48.796 --> 0:33:51.916
<v Speaker 2>other kind of ways to solve people's bathroom problems. But

0:33:51.916 --> 0:33:53.996
<v Speaker 2>I think we are focused on just being the best

0:33:54.036 --> 0:33:56.756
<v Speaker 2>bathroom company, and having thrown be associated with a pleasant

0:33:56.756 --> 0:33:59.756
<v Speaker 2>bathroom experience has a lot of interesting knock on effects

0:33:59.756 --> 0:34:01.956
<v Speaker 2>and other kind of revenue streams associated with it.

0:34:02.356 --> 0:34:05.836
<v Speaker 1>I mean you mentioned existing bathrooms, like could you just

0:34:05.916 --> 0:34:09.356
<v Speaker 1>put a new door on an existing bathroom and have

0:34:09.436 --> 0:34:12.116
<v Speaker 1>it tied to somebody's cell phone number. I mean that

0:34:12.156 --> 0:34:15.756
<v Speaker 1>seems like that would do a ton of useful work,

0:34:16.276 --> 0:34:18.516
<v Speaker 1>Like there are already a lot of bathrooms they just suck.

0:34:19.556 --> 0:34:21.796
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I think if you think of it as supply

0:34:21.836 --> 0:34:24.516
<v Speaker 2>and demand, you know the and I do. I think

0:34:24.556 --> 0:34:27.956
<v Speaker 2>of bathroom demand as a thing, and you can kind

0:34:27.956 --> 0:34:30.196
<v Speaker 2>of picture a city with these kind of hot spots

0:34:30.236 --> 0:34:32.076
<v Speaker 2>and different times like this is when people need to

0:34:32.076 --> 0:34:33.836
<v Speaker 2>pee and this is when people need to poop. And

0:34:33.876 --> 0:34:38.076
<v Speaker 2>we decided to start by that, you know, dramatically expanding supply.

0:34:38.836 --> 0:34:40.476
<v Speaker 2>But I think there's another approach, which is, you know,

0:34:40.676 --> 0:34:44.316
<v Speaker 2>increasing the equality or efficiency of existing supply, and there

0:34:44.356 --> 0:34:46.876
<v Speaker 2>have been companies that have sort of tried this. I

0:34:46.916 --> 0:34:49.236
<v Speaker 2>think what we would do is sort of, yes, bring

0:34:49.276 --> 0:34:53.956
<v Speaker 2>this sort of accountability feature and kind of user driven

0:34:54.516 --> 0:34:58.436
<v Speaker 2>kind of real time feedback to that space, and we're

0:34:58.476 --> 0:35:01.156
<v Speaker 2>doing it. That is going to be a future piece

0:35:01.156 --> 0:35:03.476
<v Speaker 2>of Thrones offering, because there's just so many of our

0:35:03.516 --> 0:35:06.276
<v Speaker 2>own customers who say, like, we love what you're doing.

0:35:06.636 --> 0:35:08.916
<v Speaker 2>We've got all this infrastructure, can you help us manage

0:35:08.916 --> 0:35:12.076
<v Speaker 2>these because it's a headache, and so you know absolutely

0:35:12.116 --> 0:35:13.876
<v Speaker 2>that's going to be a piece of our future.

0:35:18.516 --> 0:35:20.676
<v Speaker 4>We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round.

0:35:32.476 --> 0:35:35.236
<v Speaker 4>Let's finish with the lightning round, with the what a

0:35:35.316 --> 0:35:35.956
<v Speaker 4>lightning round?

0:35:36.036 --> 0:35:36.196
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

0:35:36.436 --> 0:35:39.356
<v Speaker 3>I ask you a bunch of fast, random questions, like

0:35:40.356 --> 0:35:42.756
<v Speaker 3>what's one thing you learned doing stand up comedy?

0:35:42.876 --> 0:35:45.876
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, where did you find this on the internet?

0:35:46.476 --> 0:35:49.596
<v Speaker 2>That I am not as good of a comedian as my.

0:35:49.556 --> 0:35:52.316
<v Speaker 1>Sister, Your sister, who, by the way, was a cast

0:35:52.356 --> 0:35:55.436
<v Speaker 1>member on Saturday Night Live. Not trivial, but let's not.

0:35:55.356 --> 0:35:57.076
<v Speaker 2>Talk about her. She gets all the credit. This one's

0:35:57.116 --> 0:36:00.796
<v Speaker 2>about me, fair, I'm kidding. Oh. One other thing, I

0:36:00.876 --> 0:36:02.236
<v Speaker 2>one of the thing I learned in stand up comedy

0:36:02.276 --> 0:36:04.156
<v Speaker 2>is don't invite your boss to your comedy show.

0:36:04.276 --> 0:36:06.556
<v Speaker 1>What happened when you invited your boss to your comedy show?

0:36:06.636 --> 0:36:08.556
<v Speaker 2>I bombed In the next two months were the most

0:36:08.556 --> 0:36:09.836
<v Speaker 2>miserable work months of my life.

0:36:10.476 --> 0:36:11.196
<v Speaker 1>Was that causal?

0:36:11.796 --> 0:36:16.236
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know, Probably not unrelated.

0:36:15.796 --> 0:36:17.756
<v Speaker 1>Could have been. It'd be amazing if it was.

0:36:18.836 --> 0:36:22.316
<v Speaker 3>So. You have four kids, as I understand, how many

0:36:22.316 --> 0:36:23.556
<v Speaker 3>toilets do you have in your house?

0:36:25.036 --> 0:36:27.276
<v Speaker 2>We have three toilets, which is one fewer than how

0:36:27.356 --> 0:36:27.916
<v Speaker 2>many kids we.

0:36:27.956 --> 0:36:29.956
<v Speaker 1>Have, So three for six people.

0:36:29.996 --> 0:36:34.876
<v Speaker 2>That seems fine, it's enough, but I need more toilets

0:36:34.916 --> 0:36:37.036
<v Speaker 2>proportionally per capita than most.

0:36:37.276 --> 0:36:40.596
<v Speaker 1>Uh huh. Yeah. We had two kids, and we had

0:36:40.836 --> 0:36:43.596
<v Speaker 1>had lived in a one bathroom apartment a two bedroom,

0:36:43.636 --> 0:36:46.276
<v Speaker 1>one bath and like the one toilet was much more

0:36:46.316 --> 0:36:48.636
<v Speaker 1>of a constraint than the two bedrooms for four people,

0:36:49.196 --> 0:36:51.876
<v Speaker 1>that's a tough ratio. It was a tough ratio. Best

0:36:51.876 --> 0:36:53.476
<v Speaker 1>public bathroom you've ever used?

0:36:54.756 --> 0:36:59.276
<v Speaker 2>I was recently in Charlotte Airport. I feel like airports

0:36:59.276 --> 0:37:02.316
<v Speaker 2>have really stepped up their game recently, and you have

0:37:02.436 --> 0:37:06.716
<v Speaker 2>these sort of just red and green sort of available

0:37:06.756 --> 0:37:09.556
<v Speaker 2>stalls that you just sort of have hand washing. Everyone

0:37:09.596 --> 0:37:13.036
<v Speaker 2>goes in and it's very private. Each stall is like

0:37:13.076 --> 0:37:16.756
<v Speaker 2>its own space with a floor to ceiling door and

0:37:17.076 --> 0:37:22.316
<v Speaker 2>smells and materials, air quality. Everything was just on point.

0:37:22.396 --> 0:37:24.276
<v Speaker 2>So I think airports are starting to do it right.

0:37:24.956 --> 0:37:26.716
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for your time. It was great to talk

0:37:26.756 --> 0:37:27.556
<v Speaker 1>with you.

0:37:27.556 --> 0:37:29.516
<v Speaker 2>You too, Jacob, that was so fun. Thank you very much.

0:37:29.556 --> 0:37:33.636
<v Speaker 1>Good luck. I truly hope your bathrooms or someone's bathrooms

0:37:33.676 --> 0:37:34.196
<v Speaker 1>come to New.

0:37:34.156 --> 0:37:36.276
<v Speaker 2>York, and when they do, I hope to see a

0:37:36.316 --> 0:37:38.116
<v Speaker 2>message through SMS from you.

0:37:38.116 --> 0:37:40.516
<v Speaker 1>You better know it's me. I won't.

0:37:40.516 --> 0:37:42.156
<v Speaker 2>But if you say, if you write your name in,

0:37:42.196 --> 0:37:43.396
<v Speaker 2>I'll know I'm not writing my name.

0:37:44.596 --> 0:37:46.756
<v Speaker 1>I'll respond, Okay, I'm still not going to do it.

0:37:52.876 --> 0:37:56.716
<v Speaker 1>Pledger Wilson is the co founder and CEO of Throne Labs.

0:37:57.396 --> 0:38:00.716
<v Speaker 1>Please email us at problem at pushkin dot fm. We

0:38:00.796 --> 0:38:04.516
<v Speaker 1>are always looking for new guests for the show. Today's

0:38:04.516 --> 0:38:08.316
<v Speaker 1>show was produced by Trinamanino and Gabriel Hunter Chang. It

0:38:08.476 --> 0:38:12.876
<v Speaker 1>was edited Alexander Garriton and engineered by Sarah Bruguer. I'm

0:38:12.916 --> 0:38:15.196
<v Speaker 1>Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with another

0:38:15.236 --> 0:38:24.316
<v Speaker 1>episode of What's Your Problem