1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,316 --> 00:00:23,316 Speaker 2: Bathroom infrastructure has always been a problem for me because 3 00:00:23,516 --> 00:00:25,876 Speaker 2: I need a bathroom a lot, and I get frustrated 4 00:00:25,876 --> 00:00:29,396 Speaker 2: when a bathroom isn't good. But I wasn't really necessarily 5 00:00:29,396 --> 00:00:31,196 Speaker 2: sure that that was a problem for everybody. So I 6 00:00:31,196 --> 00:00:36,036 Speaker 2: started doing this thing where I would interview everyone about 7 00:00:36,076 --> 00:00:38,596 Speaker 2: their bathroom habits. And the most fun thing to do 8 00:00:38,756 --> 00:00:42,036 Speaker 2: actually is ask if you ever get in an uber lyft, say, 9 00:00:42,196 --> 00:00:44,236 Speaker 2: can I ask you a weird question? Where do you 10 00:00:44,276 --> 00:00:45,516 Speaker 2: go to the bathroom when you're working? 11 00:00:45,956 --> 00:00:49,076 Speaker 1: This is Fletcher Wilson. He's the co founder and CEO 12 00:00:49,196 --> 00:00:51,316 Speaker 1: of a company called Throne Labs. 13 00:00:51,836 --> 00:00:56,556 Speaker 2: I would get highly strategic answers, and what was revealing 14 00:00:56,676 --> 00:00:58,356 Speaker 2: is just how big of a problem it really is 15 00:00:58,596 --> 00:01:00,556 Speaker 2: if you're working from your car and you don't have 16 00:01:00,636 --> 00:01:01,556 Speaker 2: an office bathroom. 17 00:01:01,596 --> 00:01:04,556 Speaker 1: Right, So, what are some of the strategic answers people gave? 18 00:01:04,596 --> 00:01:07,076 Speaker 2: You Never drink water or coffee on the job, which 19 00:01:07,156 --> 00:01:09,796 Speaker 2: is a bad answer, right, or. 20 00:01:10,116 --> 00:01:11,116 Speaker 1: A sad answer? 21 00:01:11,276 --> 00:01:14,876 Speaker 2: Sad answer, or I know this one plays this one 22 00:01:14,956 --> 00:01:16,836 Speaker 2: restaurant that lets me so I'm always trying to know. 23 00:01:16,876 --> 00:01:18,676 Speaker 2: At four o'clock in the afternom I'm trying to get 24 00:01:18,676 --> 00:01:22,716 Speaker 2: a ride there the most interesting was I'm driving on 25 00:01:23,156 --> 00:01:26,356 Speaker 2: mission in San Francisco, and I asked the question, and 26 00:01:26,116 --> 00:01:27,916 Speaker 2: he turns around and goes, you really want to know? 27 00:01:28,156 --> 00:01:30,876 Speaker 2: And I said absolutely. He pulls over to the side 28 00:01:30,876 --> 00:01:34,396 Speaker 2: of the road, which made me nervous, and reaches for 29 00:01:34,436 --> 00:01:38,676 Speaker 2: his glove compartment, which made me more nervous, and opens 30 00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:42,836 Speaker 2: it up and pulls out a rolled up necktie. And 31 00:01:43,276 --> 00:01:46,516 Speaker 2: I sort of was confused, And he said, with a 32 00:01:46,556 --> 00:01:47,916 Speaker 2: smile on his face, as if he had sort of 33 00:01:47,916 --> 00:01:50,036 Speaker 2: solved the mysteries of the universe. You know, all I 34 00:01:50,036 --> 00:01:51,676 Speaker 2: have to do is whenever I drop someone off at 35 00:01:51,676 --> 00:01:53,796 Speaker 2: a hotel, I throw this on and they think I 36 00:01:53,836 --> 00:01:56,036 Speaker 2: am staying there and I get to use their bathroom. 37 00:01:56,156 --> 00:01:56,316 Speaker 1: Huh. 38 00:01:56,716 --> 00:01:58,276 Speaker 2: He had to put on a costume just to use 39 00:01:58,276 --> 00:02:00,876 Speaker 2: an office bathroom, right, And that kind of put me 40 00:02:00,916 --> 00:02:03,676 Speaker 2: on a journey where I was talking to police officers, 41 00:02:03,756 --> 00:02:08,756 Speaker 2: people without reliable access to homes, parents with young children, athletes, 42 00:02:08,836 --> 00:02:10,076 Speaker 2: you know, and everyone. 43 00:02:10,396 --> 00:02:12,596 Speaker 1: I have the good fortune to have worked in offices 44 00:02:12,636 --> 00:02:15,756 Speaker 1: where I can always go to the bathroom, but there 45 00:02:15,956 --> 00:02:18,356 Speaker 1: is on my route to work. It takes me forty 46 00:02:18,356 --> 00:02:20,636 Speaker 1: five minutes to get to work on the subway, and 47 00:02:20,676 --> 00:02:22,956 Speaker 1: there's a Whole Foods in the middle. It's the one 48 00:02:22,996 --> 00:02:27,436 Speaker 1: on Houston Street by second half, and like more than once, 49 00:02:28,076 --> 00:02:30,916 Speaker 1: I've been running down Houston Street and a sweat I'm 50 00:02:31,076 --> 00:02:33,796 Speaker 1: halfway to work, heading for the Whole Food's toilet. 51 00:02:34,276 --> 00:02:35,996 Speaker 2: We've all been in that sweat run. I mean not 52 00:02:36,036 --> 00:02:38,676 Speaker 2: all of us, but I'd say forty percent of the population, 53 00:02:38,796 --> 00:02:41,956 Speaker 2: based on my discussions, has been in that situation before. 54 00:02:47,836 --> 00:02:50,116 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein and this is What's Your Problem, the 55 00:02:50,116 --> 00:02:52,036 Speaker 1: show where I talk to people who are trying to 56 00:02:52,076 --> 00:02:56,396 Speaker 1: make technological progress. My guest today is Fletcher Wilson. His 57 00:02:56,556 --> 00:03:00,236 Speaker 1: company Throne Labs is putting new public bathrooms in cities 58 00:03:00,276 --> 00:03:03,276 Speaker 1: around the country. His problem is this, how do you 59 00:03:03,276 --> 00:03:07,596 Speaker 1: create public toilets that people actually want to use? As 60 00:03:07,636 --> 00:03:12,676 Speaker 1: you'll hear, the answer in a combination of physical design, technology, 61 00:03:12,996 --> 00:03:16,916 Speaker 1: and a kind of social engineering. The conversation also points 62 00:03:16,956 --> 00:03:19,916 Speaker 1: to some bigger ideas about how hard it is for 63 00:03:20,036 --> 00:03:23,876 Speaker 1: cities to build and maintain pretty much anything. 64 00:03:24,196 --> 00:03:25,996 Speaker 2: It started by doing a lot of research on why 65 00:03:26,036 --> 00:03:28,996 Speaker 2: there are many public bathrooms out there, and it's an 66 00:03:28,996 --> 00:03:31,716 Speaker 2: interesting history to some extent. A lot of people point 67 00:03:31,756 --> 00:03:34,516 Speaker 2: to this movement in the sixties and seventies called the 68 00:03:34,556 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 2: Coalition to and Pay for Toilets in America. 69 00:03:36,956 --> 00:03:39,876 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So what was the case before that? Like, 70 00:03:39,916 --> 00:03:41,676 Speaker 1: what was the status quo? 71 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:45,476 Speaker 2: There were a lot of put a quarter in and 72 00:03:45,836 --> 00:03:48,676 Speaker 2: you can use the bathroom facilities actually in America and 73 00:03:48,716 --> 00:03:51,876 Speaker 2: certainly in Europe, and that created the right incentives to 74 00:03:51,876 --> 00:03:56,316 Speaker 2: provide bathrooms in some respects. So a lot of people 75 00:03:56,356 --> 00:03:58,276 Speaker 2: point to that as why there are better bathrooms in 76 00:03:58,316 --> 00:04:01,036 Speaker 2: Europe VERSUS America. So I think that's a big part 77 00:04:01,036 --> 00:04:04,156 Speaker 2: of it. I think there are more recent issues, I 78 00:04:04,196 --> 00:04:08,956 Speaker 2: think safety and security, and in a lot of urban 79 00:04:08,956 --> 00:04:11,436 Speaker 2: areas in the modern US city, there are a lot 80 00:04:11,476 --> 00:04:13,276 Speaker 2: of cities, as we've talked to them, that are sort 81 00:04:13,276 --> 00:04:15,996 Speaker 2: of nervous that bathrooms will become sort of a location 82 00:04:16,116 --> 00:04:18,236 Speaker 2: for nefarious activity like. 83 00:04:18,436 --> 00:04:22,076 Speaker 1: Drugs and prostitution. I mean, is that said basically. 84 00:04:22,676 --> 00:04:25,436 Speaker 2: Sure, you name it, and it's a private space within 85 00:04:25,476 --> 00:04:30,116 Speaker 2: a public space, and that makes city officials nervous. And 86 00:04:30,196 --> 00:04:33,116 Speaker 2: in some cases it's true that it has been difficult 87 00:04:33,596 --> 00:04:37,396 Speaker 2: with the old school bathroom infrastructure style to solve for 88 00:04:37,476 --> 00:04:38,076 Speaker 2: that problem. 89 00:04:38,516 --> 00:04:44,876 Speaker 1: Okay, so this is why we can't have nice public toilets. 90 00:04:45,436 --> 00:04:47,756 Speaker 1: What were you doing before, what was your job? 91 00:04:48,476 --> 00:04:50,916 Speaker 2: Thrown as my second company. My first company was a 92 00:04:50,916 --> 00:04:55,316 Speaker 2: medical technology company with a catheter a piece of hardware, 93 00:04:55,556 --> 00:04:58,076 Speaker 2: so I'm not afraid of building things in the physical world. 94 00:04:58,156 --> 00:05:00,636 Speaker 2: That company was trying to solve a problem for people 95 00:05:00,676 --> 00:05:04,596 Speaker 2: whose leg veins aren't able to properly pump blood back 96 00:05:04,636 --> 00:05:06,356 Speaker 2: to the heart from the legs, and so we had 97 00:05:06,356 --> 00:05:09,556 Speaker 2: a cather that went in recreated vein valves for people 98 00:05:09,876 --> 00:05:11,956 Speaker 2: in their legs and so. And that company is still 99 00:05:11,996 --> 00:05:14,396 Speaker 2: going and I'm proud of it. But I think the 100 00:05:14,516 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 2: link here is, first of all, it's all plumbing, veins 101 00:05:17,796 --> 00:05:20,996 Speaker 2: and bathrooms, but really sticky problems that a lot of 102 00:05:20,996 --> 00:05:22,636 Speaker 2: people don't want to try to solve. 103 00:05:23,596 --> 00:05:26,076 Speaker 1: So what's the moment when you decide to start this company. 104 00:05:26,436 --> 00:05:28,836 Speaker 2: I'm walking in San Francisco. I have to go to 105 00:05:28,876 --> 00:05:33,676 Speaker 2: the bathroom and I see a porta potty and I 106 00:05:33,716 --> 00:05:35,596 Speaker 2: try to go use it, and there's a lock on it. 107 00:05:35,636 --> 00:05:37,996 Speaker 2: This is sort of a porta potty outside a residential 108 00:05:37,996 --> 00:05:41,316 Speaker 2: construction site. And it sort of hit me. There are 109 00:05:41,516 --> 00:05:44,996 Speaker 2: porta potties all over the city. They're not nice to use. 110 00:05:45,516 --> 00:05:47,956 Speaker 2: They're being used about one percent of the time. If 111 00:05:47,956 --> 00:05:50,516 Speaker 2: that what if we could sort of, you know, create 112 00:05:50,556 --> 00:05:53,436 Speaker 2: some sort of bathroom sharing system where the construction company 113 00:05:53,476 --> 00:05:55,396 Speaker 2: is incentive ized or the person who's driveway it's on 114 00:05:55,436 --> 00:05:58,756 Speaker 2: is incentivized to open up an elevated bathroom experience for 115 00:05:58,836 --> 00:06:00,076 Speaker 2: anyone who needs it. Ha. 116 00:06:00,396 --> 00:06:03,236 Speaker 1: So that's Airbnb, but for toilets is essentially what you're 117 00:06:03,276 --> 00:06:03,996 Speaker 1: imagining there. 118 00:06:04,476 --> 00:06:07,716 Speaker 2: Yes, I wish I could take credit for AIRPNP, but 119 00:06:07,756 --> 00:06:10,076 Speaker 2: there actually was a predecessor company to mine that have 120 00:06:10,196 --> 00:06:10,516 Speaker 2: that meme. 121 00:06:10,636 --> 00:06:13,996 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, and they were trying to do that. 122 00:06:13,996 --> 00:06:16,316 Speaker 2: That was more you can use my bathroom in my 123 00:06:16,396 --> 00:06:18,796 Speaker 2: living room for a fee, and it didn't work. I 124 00:06:18,796 --> 00:06:19,636 Speaker 2: don't think it worked. 125 00:06:20,236 --> 00:06:23,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you have the idea and you start 126 00:06:23,836 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 1: the company. 127 00:06:24,316 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 2: Well, you got to have a team, so pull together 128 00:06:26,676 --> 00:06:29,476 Speaker 2: a five person founding team. First company was a solo 129 00:06:29,516 --> 00:06:32,516 Speaker 2: founder journey. This one I decided not to do that. 130 00:06:32,596 --> 00:06:34,796 Speaker 2: It's it's hard to start these things, and so I 131 00:06:34,836 --> 00:06:38,956 Speaker 2: brought in a hardware guy. I found two people from 132 00:06:39,036 --> 00:06:41,956 Speaker 2: the traditional portable sanitation industry who had owned and run 133 00:06:41,996 --> 00:06:43,556 Speaker 2: one of those companies for a long time, which was 134 00:06:43,676 --> 00:06:47,356 Speaker 2: very useful to understand what the old school portable sanitation 135 00:06:47,436 --> 00:06:48,596 Speaker 2: industry does. 136 00:06:48,476 --> 00:06:50,676 Speaker 1: Like basically from the porta potty business. 137 00:06:50,996 --> 00:06:53,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, I always I try to extend it to make 138 00:06:53,036 --> 00:06:56,156 Speaker 2: it sound even more glorified. But yes, porta potty business, 139 00:06:56,636 --> 00:06:58,316 Speaker 2: which is great, has done a lot of great things, 140 00:06:58,316 --> 00:07:00,236 Speaker 2: but we're trying to build sort of a new system 141 00:07:00,276 --> 00:07:03,436 Speaker 2: on top of that. And then my last co founder, Jess, 142 00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:08,396 Speaker 2: who brings this sort of grassroots marketing and sales side 143 00:07:08,396 --> 00:07:09,996 Speaker 2: of how to sell to cities and get a bunch 144 00:07:09,996 --> 00:07:11,436 Speaker 2: of people excited about something like this. 145 00:07:11,836 --> 00:07:14,596 Speaker 1: And so at some point you go from selling to 146 00:07:15,316 --> 00:07:16,996 Speaker 1: people where the porta part is going to be in 147 00:07:17,036 --> 00:07:19,156 Speaker 1: their driveway, to construction companies it's like you're gonna have 148 00:07:19,196 --> 00:07:22,316 Speaker 1: one of these anyways to selling to cities and you 149 00:07:22,356 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 1: know transitisms selling to the government basically, right, that's the 150 00:07:24,836 --> 00:07:26,676 Speaker 1: model you land at. What how do you figure that 151 00:07:26,716 --> 00:07:27,116 Speaker 1: part out? 152 00:07:27,276 --> 00:07:31,516 Speaker 2: There are three potential customers, the user, the city or 153 00:07:32,276 --> 00:07:35,356 Speaker 2: companies like Uber enterprise, right, And we tried actually selling 154 00:07:35,396 --> 00:07:38,876 Speaker 2: to Uber and Lyft and Amazon we have drivers, right, 155 00:07:38,956 --> 00:07:41,756 Speaker 2: But I think the issue was twofold call us when 156 00:07:41,756 --> 00:07:44,676 Speaker 2: you have ten thousand bathrooms all over the country, and 157 00:07:45,156 --> 00:07:46,756 Speaker 2: to some extent, some of those companies aren't as in 158 00:07:46,836 --> 00:07:49,676 Speaker 2: xentivized to provide a workplace benefit for their non W 159 00:07:49,796 --> 00:07:51,956 Speaker 2: two workers, So that's a rabbit hole we won't go into. 160 00:07:52,116 --> 00:07:54,436 Speaker 1: Soh So basically, like the idea is like, hey, Uber, 161 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:57,876 Speaker 1: you could attract drivers by giving them bathrooms, which Lyft doesn't. 162 00:07:58,196 --> 00:08:00,916 Speaker 1: But then you're saying legally, if they do that, they 163 00:08:01,036 --> 00:08:03,716 Speaker 1: might have to hire their workers as W two workers 164 00:08:03,716 --> 00:08:06,596 Speaker 1: instead of contractors. Like that's a risk, that's a risk. 165 00:08:06,836 --> 00:08:11,396 Speaker 2: Interesting and so a quick aside on selling to the user. 166 00:08:11,516 --> 00:08:13,356 Speaker 2: I think we were never feeling very good about the 167 00:08:13,396 --> 00:08:16,116 Speaker 2: idea of people paying to use the bathroom, especially in America, 168 00:08:16,356 --> 00:08:19,156 Speaker 2: but we tried it. We played around with bathroom credits, 169 00:08:19,196 --> 00:08:21,796 Speaker 2: and what you find is one out of ten people 170 00:08:21,796 --> 00:08:23,796 Speaker 2: are willing to do it, or maybe one out of five. 171 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:26,556 Speaker 2: But then if there is a dribble of pee on 172 00:08:26,636 --> 00:08:29,036 Speaker 2: the seat, you hear from them right, you don't want 173 00:08:29,036 --> 00:08:31,036 Speaker 2: to pay for a bathroom and not have a perfect experience. 174 00:08:31,116 --> 00:08:33,916 Speaker 2: And while we try to provide a perfect experience every time, 175 00:08:34,036 --> 00:08:36,636 Speaker 2: it's difficult. And so that just felt like an uphill 176 00:08:36,676 --> 00:08:38,756 Speaker 2: battle to convince hundreds of thousands of people a day 177 00:08:38,796 --> 00:08:40,676 Speaker 2: to make a different buying decision than they're used to 178 00:08:41,916 --> 00:08:44,956 Speaker 2: and so you land on cities. So we land on cities, and. 179 00:08:44,876 --> 00:08:47,836 Speaker 1: So the big question is how do you keep people 180 00:08:47,876 --> 00:08:50,676 Speaker 1: from going in there and doing drugs or like pooping 181 00:08:50,716 --> 00:08:53,076 Speaker 1: on the floor or whatever. Right, how do you make 182 00:08:53,116 --> 00:08:55,316 Speaker 1: it not a terrible public toilet? That seems like the 183 00:08:55,356 --> 00:08:57,156 Speaker 1: fundamental hard question is that? Right? 184 00:08:57,356 --> 00:09:00,836 Speaker 2: I think that's one of two fundamental hard questions. I think, 185 00:09:00,916 --> 00:09:02,596 Speaker 2: if I can back up, there's one other that I 186 00:09:02,596 --> 00:09:06,396 Speaker 2: think is pretty critical, which is the difficulty of building 187 00:09:06,436 --> 00:09:11,356 Speaker 2: physical infrastructure and the inflight ability of that. So the 188 00:09:11,396 --> 00:09:13,796 Speaker 2: main solution for cities they don't use poor bodies. It's 189 00:09:13,796 --> 00:09:17,076 Speaker 2: not a crowd pleaser, and so they typically build brick 190 00:09:17,076 --> 00:09:20,276 Speaker 2: and mortar bathrooms or install these factory built systems that 191 00:09:20,596 --> 00:09:23,796 Speaker 2: will plug into the waste and water infrastructure. The problem 192 00:09:23,876 --> 00:09:25,996 Speaker 2: is that takes two to three years, and it usually 193 00:09:26,036 --> 00:09:28,436 Speaker 2: costs like a million dollars a bathroom, and then once 194 00:09:28,476 --> 00:09:31,276 Speaker 2: it's down, maybe you picked the wrong spot. It's there 195 00:09:31,316 --> 00:09:32,436 Speaker 2: for twenty or thirty years. 196 00:09:32,596 --> 00:09:34,556 Speaker 1: New York, in fact, just did that, and they even 197 00:09:34,596 --> 00:09:39,036 Speaker 1: they bought like prefab bathrooms, but installing them like basically 198 00:09:39,076 --> 00:09:41,316 Speaker 1: hooking them up to water and sewer I guess did 199 00:09:41,356 --> 00:09:45,436 Speaker 1: in fact cost a million dollars a bathroom, which I mean, 200 00:09:46,516 --> 00:09:48,676 Speaker 1: it still seems crazy to me. I know enough that 201 00:09:48,716 --> 00:09:50,236 Speaker 1: it shouldn't, but like. 202 00:09:50,196 --> 00:09:52,476 Speaker 3: I feel like you could build an apartment for a 203 00:09:52,476 --> 00:09:55,476 Speaker 3: million dollars and put a toilet in it. Yeah, like 204 00:09:55,516 --> 00:09:59,476 Speaker 3: you actually could like buy a condo for five hundred 205 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:01,436 Speaker 3: thousand dollars or the toilet and it. Let you know, 206 00:10:01,516 --> 00:10:04,596 Speaker 3: like it's there, Like there's an abundance problem here, right, 207 00:10:04,756 --> 00:10:06,716 Speaker 3: I mean, I guess this is kind of part of 208 00:10:06,756 --> 00:10:08,796 Speaker 3: what is enabled in your business. If it didn't cost 209 00:10:08,796 --> 00:10:12,196 Speaker 3: a millionllion dollars to build a public toilet, literally, your 210 00:10:12,196 --> 00:10:14,796 Speaker 3: business would be a less compelling proposition to cities. 211 00:10:15,436 --> 00:10:17,996 Speaker 2: I think that would take away half of our value proposition, 212 00:10:18,036 --> 00:10:20,916 Speaker 2: which is this flexibility ability to you know, the original 213 00:10:21,116 --> 00:10:23,636 Speaker 2: products back was a hotel, lobby bathroom that can be 214 00:10:23,676 --> 00:10:25,836 Speaker 2: placed in a home depot, parking lot in an hour 215 00:10:25,916 --> 00:10:26,236 Speaker 2: or less. 216 00:10:26,276 --> 00:10:29,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, so flexible installation. And then the sort of social norms. 217 00:10:29,876 --> 00:10:33,436 Speaker 1: How do you keep very small percentage of people from 218 00:10:33,516 --> 00:10:34,636 Speaker 1: ruining it for everybody? 219 00:10:34,676 --> 00:10:36,396 Speaker 2: And that's the other big piece, So. 220 00:10:36,396 --> 00:10:39,156 Speaker 1: Let's take them in order. There's first the how do 221 00:10:39,196 --> 00:10:42,236 Speaker 1: you build a bathroom that doesn't cost a million dollars 222 00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:44,716 Speaker 1: and that you can move around if you want to. 223 00:10:45,836 --> 00:10:49,076 Speaker 1: Presumably that's that's better than a porta potty, right, Like 224 00:10:49,236 --> 00:10:51,116 Speaker 1: we have a bad answer to that, which is the 225 00:10:51,116 --> 00:10:53,236 Speaker 1: porta potty. But yeah, so how do you do that one? 226 00:10:53,636 --> 00:10:56,836 Speaker 2: Yes, better than a porta potty. So what you want 227 00:10:56,836 --> 00:10:59,156 Speaker 2: to do is convince a user that they're at a 228 00:10:59,236 --> 00:11:01,596 Speaker 2: nice indoor bathroom. There's a lot of technology. This thing 229 00:11:01,676 --> 00:11:05,596 Speaker 2: is basically a stationary machine with large holding tanks for 230 00:11:05,716 --> 00:11:09,756 Speaker 2: water and waste, humps and sensors and master ration system 231 00:11:09,796 --> 00:11:12,276 Speaker 2: to move this waste and water around, to allow a 232 00:11:12,316 --> 00:11:15,636 Speaker 2: flushing toilet, a running water sink, and then all the 233 00:11:15,676 --> 00:11:19,676 Speaker 2: other accoutrement of an indoor bathroom HVAC, you know, so 234 00:11:19,916 --> 00:11:24,596 Speaker 2: air conditioning, heat, and ventilation, all on solar energy so 235 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:27,236 Speaker 2: that we don't have to necessarily plug into public infrastructure. 236 00:11:27,676 --> 00:11:29,716 Speaker 2: And so that was the challenge. And we started building 237 00:11:29,756 --> 00:11:32,596 Speaker 2: one of these in my co founder Ben Clark's sideyard, 238 00:11:32,636 --> 00:11:35,356 Speaker 2: turning his you know, two bed, two bath house into 239 00:11:35,396 --> 00:11:36,956 Speaker 2: a two bed, two and a half bath house. 240 00:11:37,156 --> 00:11:38,916 Speaker 1: So we'll talk more about the physical thing that you 241 00:11:38,996 --> 00:11:41,876 Speaker 1: build in a thick but there is this other problem, right, 242 00:11:41,956 --> 00:11:45,756 Speaker 1: how do you keep it from getting ruined by some 243 00:11:45,916 --> 00:11:47,036 Speaker 1: small number of people. 244 00:11:47,356 --> 00:11:50,196 Speaker 2: Yes, and this is a difficult problem to solve. 245 00:11:50,236 --> 00:11:52,916 Speaker 1: Seems harder than the physical piece at some level, or 246 00:11:52,956 --> 00:11:54,276 Speaker 1: more complicated or something. 247 00:11:54,436 --> 00:11:58,756 Speaker 2: Absolutely, there is a social science aspect to this, there's 248 00:11:58,756 --> 00:12:01,796 Speaker 2: an accountability aspect to this, and I think we focused 249 00:12:01,956 --> 00:12:05,596 Speaker 2: our early experiments on sort of those areas. And I 250 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:08,476 Speaker 2: think the difficult thing you have to give up when 251 00:12:08,756 --> 00:12:11,836 Speaker 2: sort of being excited about this concept a throne is, 252 00:12:12,516 --> 00:12:14,756 Speaker 2: you know, attaching some form of accountability to your actions 253 00:12:14,796 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 2: in a public space. And in order to do that, 254 00:12:18,636 --> 00:12:21,956 Speaker 2: many of our users enter via some sort of phone number, 255 00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:25,356 Speaker 2: basically an SMS access system. But what that allows us 256 00:12:25,396 --> 00:12:27,676 Speaker 2: to do is a you know, kind of create the 257 00:12:27,716 --> 00:12:31,436 Speaker 2: sense of let's create a loyal, conscientious user base. 258 00:12:31,556 --> 00:12:33,876 Speaker 1: And just to be clear, the point of using a 259 00:12:33,876 --> 00:12:36,356 Speaker 1: phone number is most people have one phone number, So 260 00:12:36,396 --> 00:12:40,596 Speaker 1: it's essentially tying you using the bathroom to your identity. 261 00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:43,796 Speaker 1: You are not an anonymous, truly anonymous user. You are 262 00:12:43,876 --> 00:12:48,196 Speaker 1: one distinct person trackable at some level using the toilet. 263 00:12:48,356 --> 00:12:50,276 Speaker 2: Well, we don't care about your name, we don't care 264 00:12:50,276 --> 00:12:52,596 Speaker 2: about your occupation, we don't want to know anything else 265 00:12:52,636 --> 00:12:54,996 Speaker 2: about you. But you're not going to go get a 266 00:12:55,036 --> 00:12:56,756 Speaker 2: new phone number just to use it. 267 00:12:56,796 --> 00:12:58,436 Speaker 1: So what do you want to know though, Well, like 268 00:12:58,476 --> 00:13:00,196 Speaker 1: why do you want my phone number for me to 269 00:13:00,196 --> 00:13:00,836 Speaker 1: go to the bathroom? 270 00:13:00,876 --> 00:13:03,316 Speaker 2: So two reasons number one and actually this is not 271 00:13:03,356 --> 00:13:05,516 Speaker 2: as much the accountability. We want to ask you how 272 00:13:05,516 --> 00:13:08,236 Speaker 2: clean the bathroom is, and if you enter via phone number, 273 00:13:08,516 --> 00:13:11,236 Speaker 2: a huge percent of people tell us in hilarious detail 274 00:13:11,236 --> 00:13:14,036 Speaker 2: what's going on inside there. So that's another piece of this. 275 00:13:14,276 --> 00:13:16,516 Speaker 1: Like so you text me afterwards and say how is it? 276 00:13:16,556 --> 00:13:17,436 Speaker 1: And I text you back. 277 00:13:17,676 --> 00:13:19,356 Speaker 2: We text you as you go in, how clean is 278 00:13:19,356 --> 00:13:20,876 Speaker 2: the throne or how does the throne smell? And we 279 00:13:20,916 --> 00:13:24,076 Speaker 2: can ask different questions and people tell us they are 280 00:13:24,156 --> 00:13:26,756 Speaker 2: eyes and ears, and we have a roaming labor force 281 00:13:26,796 --> 00:13:29,636 Speaker 2: that is reacting in real time to those prompts. 282 00:13:29,716 --> 00:13:30,636 Speaker 1: So that's one reason. 283 00:13:30,756 --> 00:13:33,956 Speaker 2: Yeah. The other is for the less than one percent 284 00:13:33,996 --> 00:13:36,916 Speaker 2: of people that are just not treating this like they 285 00:13:36,916 --> 00:13:40,716 Speaker 2: would their home bathroom or using it for things outside 286 00:13:40,716 --> 00:13:44,196 Speaker 2: of our sort of general terms and conditions. We can 287 00:13:44,236 --> 00:13:46,916 Speaker 2: warn and block those users, and it's a very small percent. 288 00:13:47,396 --> 00:13:50,516 Speaker 2: This is things like refusing to leave drug use and 289 00:13:50,636 --> 00:13:55,596 Speaker 2: leaving drug paraphernalia behind, other activities outside of bathroom use, 290 00:13:55,596 --> 00:13:59,356 Speaker 2: and so there's obviously a technology problem of how can 291 00:13:59,396 --> 00:14:02,996 Speaker 2: you understand who's doing those things without any creepiness, And 292 00:14:02,996 --> 00:14:04,996 Speaker 2: so one of our company values is don't be creepy. 293 00:14:05,436 --> 00:14:08,116 Speaker 2: There's no cameras, no microphone on the inside or anything 294 00:14:08,156 --> 00:14:11,796 Speaker 2: like that, but like refusing to leave pretty easy to know. 295 00:14:12,716 --> 00:14:16,396 Speaker 2: And by piecing together sort of the comments from each 296 00:14:16,516 --> 00:14:19,116 Speaker 2: user and knowing which, you know, phone number was associated 297 00:14:19,116 --> 00:14:21,516 Speaker 2: with each use, you can start to pick up sort 298 00:14:21,556 --> 00:14:24,036 Speaker 2: of statistically, people that are constantly the problem. 299 00:14:24,356 --> 00:14:26,876 Speaker 1: Basically if the person who comes in after you says 300 00:14:27,316 --> 00:14:29,756 Speaker 1: it was totally disgusting, or there is a needle on 301 00:14:29,796 --> 00:14:33,076 Speaker 1: the floor that gets pinned to the previous user. Just 302 00:14:33,516 --> 00:14:36,236 Speaker 1: to be clear, I mean that seems like the simple version. 303 00:14:36,036 --> 00:14:39,116 Speaker 2: It gets flagged to the previous group of users, And 304 00:14:39,196 --> 00:14:41,796 Speaker 2: if you happen to be in a group over and over, 305 00:14:41,956 --> 00:14:44,476 Speaker 2: that is that is the yellow flag eventually becomes a 306 00:14:44,516 --> 00:14:44,956 Speaker 2: red flag. 307 00:14:45,196 --> 00:14:47,196 Speaker 1: What percent of users wind up getting. 308 00:14:46,956 --> 00:14:49,836 Speaker 2: Flagged zero point one percent of users, one in a thousand. 309 00:14:50,236 --> 00:14:54,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's it take to get banned? Really? 310 00:14:54,716 --> 00:14:59,836 Speaker 2: It is repeated violation of these types of terms and additions, 311 00:14:59,916 --> 00:15:02,916 Speaker 2: or one really bad incident, and sometimes It's as simple 312 00:15:02,956 --> 00:15:05,796 Speaker 2: as one of our customers. The city will say, you know, 313 00:15:05,876 --> 00:15:08,156 Speaker 2: the user that used the throne at ten forty two 314 00:15:08,276 --> 00:15:11,596 Speaker 2: did X, Y and z, and sometimes that will lead 315 00:15:11,636 --> 00:15:14,276 Speaker 2: to a ban. I didn't mention this. Another reason to 316 00:15:14,356 --> 00:15:17,676 Speaker 2: make a bathroom smart is you can do things like 317 00:15:17,756 --> 00:15:21,076 Speaker 2: the following. Our door is an automatic sliding door. It 318 00:15:21,156 --> 00:15:23,316 Speaker 2: sort of acts as the bouncer. That's a safety precaution. 319 00:15:23,396 --> 00:15:26,556 Speaker 2: You don't want people coming in right after you. And 320 00:15:26,596 --> 00:15:30,396 Speaker 2: then also there are incidents of overdose and it's actually 321 00:15:30,556 --> 00:15:33,596 Speaker 2: really great feature that eventually the door will open and 322 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:35,676 Speaker 2: people will find you. And that has happened many times 323 00:15:35,836 --> 00:15:37,836 Speaker 2: and lives have been saved actually with that feature. 324 00:15:38,116 --> 00:15:40,636 Speaker 1: So you can't like manually lock it from the inside, 325 00:15:40,636 --> 00:15:42,876 Speaker 1: is what you're saying. At some point. It's like an 326 00:15:42,996 --> 00:15:44,476 Speaker 1: electronic lock exactly. 327 00:15:44,516 --> 00:15:47,156 Speaker 2: And that's another big one. We sort of control the 328 00:15:47,156 --> 00:15:50,676 Speaker 2: locking system. An audio feature will tell you, you know, the 329 00:15:50,716 --> 00:15:54,276 Speaker 2: door will close and lock behind you, and we warn people, 330 00:15:55,116 --> 00:15:57,316 Speaker 2: you know, very much before that happens, and the city 331 00:15:57,316 --> 00:15:59,236 Speaker 2: actually gets to set the time limit they want. And 332 00:15:59,236 --> 00:16:02,716 Speaker 2: this is a piece of our technology that rubs some 333 00:16:02,756 --> 00:16:05,396 Speaker 2: people the wrong way. It's one of these crazy trade 334 00:16:05,396 --> 00:16:07,756 Speaker 2: offs and when you're dealing in the bathroom world. But 335 00:16:08,516 --> 00:16:11,036 Speaker 2: if you don't do that, there are real safety concerns 336 00:16:11,436 --> 00:16:14,276 Speaker 2: and people will stay there overnight and whatnot. And so 337 00:16:14,676 --> 00:16:16,876 Speaker 2: we try to provide a good amount of time and 338 00:16:16,916 --> 00:16:19,956 Speaker 2: a lot of notice. But again it helps when there 339 00:16:19,996 --> 00:16:22,636 Speaker 2: is a safety issue there where in a normal locking, 340 00:16:22,676 --> 00:16:24,836 Speaker 2: manual locking bathroom, a lot of people are just found 341 00:16:24,836 --> 00:16:26,996 Speaker 2: in the morning dead right when there's an overdose. 342 00:16:27,756 --> 00:16:31,916 Speaker 1: So how long do cities choose to let people stay 343 00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:33,756 Speaker 1: in the bathroom before it automatically opens? 344 00:16:34,156 --> 00:16:36,396 Speaker 2: Ten minutes is the shortest we use, and in some 345 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:38,316 Speaker 2: cities fifteen or no time limit. 346 00:16:38,316 --> 00:16:41,836 Speaker 1: Okay, And is there like just a small question that 347 00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:45,076 Speaker 1: comes to mind, like a manual override? If I'm in there, 348 00:16:45,076 --> 00:16:47,116 Speaker 1: can I unlock it if I want manually? 349 00:16:47,396 --> 00:16:50,716 Speaker 2: Absolutely so for anyone who's claustrophobic and thinking this is 350 00:16:50,716 --> 00:16:53,116 Speaker 2: my nightmare, there's a manual handle to get out. It's 351 00:16:53,156 --> 00:16:55,356 Speaker 2: more just that you can't lock it and stop people 352 00:16:55,356 --> 00:16:58,796 Speaker 2: from coming in after the ten or fifteen minute timeline. 353 00:16:59,196 --> 00:17:02,476 Speaker 1: What has been like surprising to you about this sort 354 00:17:02,516 --> 00:17:04,436 Speaker 1: of social dynamics piece of it. 355 00:17:05,036 --> 00:17:08,036 Speaker 2: I think that it's not what society might think would 356 00:17:08,076 --> 00:17:10,636 Speaker 2: be the person causing the most problems I think is 357 00:17:10,676 --> 00:17:15,476 Speaker 2: one of them. We have had city officials, one city 358 00:17:15,516 --> 00:17:18,596 Speaker 2: official and obviously not going to talk about which very 359 00:17:18,636 --> 00:17:21,996 Speaker 2: early on, where like that was the person that was 360 00:17:22,036 --> 00:17:24,716 Speaker 2: causing problems and we stood firm, you know, you're not 361 00:17:24,796 --> 00:17:27,396 Speaker 2: using our bathroom anymore. I think on the flip side, 362 00:17:27,516 --> 00:17:30,116 Speaker 2: I always get the question of like, homeless people are 363 00:17:30,116 --> 00:17:31,836 Speaker 2: always are just going to ruin this thing, and that 364 00:17:31,996 --> 00:17:34,116 Speaker 2: is not the case. I think we have found. We've 365 00:17:34,116 --> 00:17:37,916 Speaker 2: put these in a lot of locations that have historically 366 00:17:37,956 --> 00:17:39,676 Speaker 2: not been able to have bathrooms because of all the 367 00:17:39,756 --> 00:17:42,356 Speaker 2: issues I mentioned with traditional brick and mortar where they 368 00:17:42,356 --> 00:17:45,796 Speaker 2: were having to post up security guards outside, which is 369 00:17:45,876 --> 00:17:48,316 Speaker 2: just not cost effective. And what we found when we 370 00:17:48,356 --> 00:17:51,316 Speaker 2: put in these communities one example is sort of west 371 00:17:51,356 --> 00:17:55,076 Speaker 2: Lake MacArthur Park in Los Angeles, is the people that 372 00:17:55,596 --> 00:17:58,436 Speaker 2: spend a lot of time there become our advocates. They 373 00:17:58,516 --> 00:18:00,316 Speaker 2: come up to our cleaners and say like, we love 374 00:18:00,356 --> 00:18:02,756 Speaker 2: this and oh, by the way, this person's causing problems. 375 00:18:03,116 --> 00:18:06,596 Speaker 2: And it's so impactful for people that don't have regular 376 00:18:06,596 --> 00:18:08,996 Speaker 2: access to a bathroom or have to feel some sort 377 00:18:08,996 --> 00:18:11,756 Speaker 2: of maybe shamed to walk into an establishment to use 378 00:18:11,796 --> 00:18:14,396 Speaker 2: their bathroom. It is not as easy for everyone to 379 00:18:14,476 --> 00:18:17,516 Speaker 2: do that. They do want nice things, and there are 380 00:18:17,556 --> 00:18:20,596 Speaker 2: sort of greatest advocates and so happy about it, and 381 00:18:20,596 --> 00:18:23,156 Speaker 2: that's something that a lot of people maybe wouldn't have 382 00:18:23,156 --> 00:18:23,876 Speaker 2: thought of from the start. 383 00:18:24,956 --> 00:18:26,996 Speaker 1: What do you do for people who don't have phones? 384 00:18:27,276 --> 00:18:29,156 Speaker 2: It's a big one. Not everyone has regular access to 385 00:18:29,196 --> 00:18:31,636 Speaker 2: a phone. It is my co founder, Jess knows. The 386 00:18:31,716 --> 00:18:34,356 Speaker 2: number is better than me. Something like ninety two percent 387 00:18:34,356 --> 00:18:37,996 Speaker 2: of people in urban areas have phones, but not everyone 388 00:18:38,036 --> 00:18:40,316 Speaker 2: has a charged phone. And so we hand out TAP 389 00:18:40,356 --> 00:18:44,876 Speaker 2: cards at various community service organizations or often in partnership 390 00:18:44,916 --> 00:18:47,716 Speaker 2: with the city. Sometimes we even set up tables with education. 391 00:18:48,196 --> 00:18:50,916 Speaker 2: Here's a card. It'll get into any throne for free. 392 00:18:50,956 --> 00:18:52,436 Speaker 2: You can use it as many times as you want, 393 00:18:52,476 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 2: but we still can revoke access. So don't hand it 394 00:18:54,796 --> 00:18:57,076 Speaker 2: to a friend, and don't do anything bad in the throne. 395 00:18:57,196 --> 00:18:59,396 Speaker 1: I mean, couldn't you just do something bad and then 396 00:18:59,396 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 1: get another card. 397 00:19:00,836 --> 00:19:03,636 Speaker 2: Yes, And the idea here isn't to prevent people who 398 00:19:03,676 --> 00:19:05,876 Speaker 2: make one mistake to ever use the bathroom again. The 399 00:19:05,916 --> 00:19:09,196 Speaker 2: idea is to put some friction, some feeling of I 400 00:19:09,276 --> 00:19:11,276 Speaker 2: might as well just clean up a little bit after 401 00:19:11,316 --> 00:19:14,076 Speaker 2: myself use this bathroom for what it's needed, and that 402 00:19:14,196 --> 00:19:17,596 Speaker 2: alone is sort of a power law improvement on how 403 00:19:17,676 --> 00:19:19,516 Speaker 2: likely the bathroom is to stay nice and clean. 404 00:19:22,636 --> 00:19:33,836 Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute. What's the thing 405 00:19:33,836 --> 00:19:35,196 Speaker 1: that you tried that didn't work? 406 00:19:37,356 --> 00:19:42,716 Speaker 2: Forcing people to download an app to use a bathroom. 407 00:19:41,156 --> 00:19:43,956 Speaker 1: That seems like a reasonable proposition. I mean maybe it's 408 00:19:44,876 --> 00:19:46,796 Speaker 1: maybe you have to be a regular use. I don't know. 409 00:19:46,916 --> 00:19:48,876 Speaker 1: I would think that that might work. 410 00:19:48,956 --> 00:19:50,876 Speaker 2: I would do it, and we have an app and 411 00:19:50,916 --> 00:19:52,996 Speaker 2: people do use it. Uber drivers love it because it 412 00:19:53,076 --> 00:19:56,476 Speaker 2: lets you, you know, see where other bathrooms are across 413 00:19:56,516 --> 00:19:59,516 Speaker 2: the city. And my favorite memory is walking through Ann Arbor, 414 00:19:59,596 --> 00:20:01,636 Speaker 2: Michigan and seeing an Uber driver pull up to and 415 00:20:01,676 --> 00:20:03,676 Speaker 2: thrown and the door opens as he's getting out of 416 00:20:03,676 --> 00:20:06,156 Speaker 2: his car, clearly showing that you know, he's been doing 417 00:20:06,156 --> 00:20:08,516 Speaker 2: that every day and knows exactly the timing of hitting. 418 00:20:08,356 --> 00:20:11,516 Speaker 1: So like he's opened on his app from the car 419 00:20:11,596 --> 00:20:12,396 Speaker 1: and yeah. 420 00:20:12,876 --> 00:20:16,236 Speaker 2: I was just like, we've arrived. But I think early days, 421 00:20:16,236 --> 00:20:19,796 Speaker 2: we put one in Georgetown in DC at a farmer's market, 422 00:20:20,116 --> 00:20:22,916 Speaker 2: back when you had to download an app and it's crowded. 423 00:20:22,996 --> 00:20:26,316 Speaker 2: It takes four minutes to download an app. Sometimes people 424 00:20:26,356 --> 00:20:28,756 Speaker 2: are so angry when you have to pee and download 425 00:20:28,796 --> 00:20:31,556 Speaker 2: an app that like, we were shamed. I was about 426 00:20:31,596 --> 00:20:34,596 Speaker 2: to take my throne shirt off and hide. But it 427 00:20:34,596 --> 00:20:36,916 Speaker 2: was a great learning and that's when we installed the 428 00:20:36,956 --> 00:20:39,996 Speaker 2: Paul Wilson rule. That my dad is Paul Wilson, seventy 429 00:20:39,996 --> 00:20:42,596 Speaker 2: six year old man, not the most facile with technology, 430 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:44,396 Speaker 2: and we said, Paul Wilson better be able to get 431 00:20:44,396 --> 00:20:45,476 Speaker 2: in in ten seconds or less. 432 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:47,516 Speaker 1: Uh huh. So how does it work now? 433 00:20:47,836 --> 00:20:49,596 Speaker 2: So you walk up to a throne, it will say 434 00:20:49,876 --> 00:20:53,556 Speaker 2: free bathrooms, scan to use, and there's a large QR code. 435 00:20:53,996 --> 00:20:57,276 Speaker 2: You scan the QR code, it automatically pulls up your 436 00:20:57,436 --> 00:21:00,676 Speaker 2: SMS module with a phone number already prepopulated and a 437 00:21:00,676 --> 00:21:02,516 Speaker 2: message prepopulated. 438 00:21:01,956 --> 00:21:03,916 Speaker 1: SMS module meaning a text. 439 00:21:03,716 --> 00:21:07,956 Speaker 2: A text yeah sorry send, it'll say send this message 440 00:21:07,956 --> 00:21:09,956 Speaker 2: to use the throne. All you do is scan a 441 00:21:09,996 --> 00:21:13,076 Speaker 2: QR code, hit s end and this door opens. A 442 00:21:13,196 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 2: chime welcomes you, and a voice welcomes you, and you 443 00:21:16,076 --> 00:21:18,916 Speaker 2: walk in. The door slides behind you. You have a 444 00:21:18,916 --> 00:21:22,516 Speaker 2: flushing toilet, a running water, sink, music, You use the 445 00:21:22,516 --> 00:21:25,396 Speaker 2: bathroom and everything is touchless, and you even wave to exit. 446 00:21:25,476 --> 00:21:25,996 Speaker 2: On the way out. 447 00:21:26,156 --> 00:21:28,676 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit more about the physical thing. 448 00:21:28,756 --> 00:21:31,476 Speaker 1: Since we're in the room now, does it smell like 449 00:21:31,476 --> 00:21:33,036 Speaker 1: a porta potty? Tell me the truth? 450 00:21:34,636 --> 00:21:38,236 Speaker 2: No, Okay, our smell score right now is four point 451 00:21:38,276 --> 00:21:40,676 Speaker 2: one out of five. So we have quantitative answers. 452 00:21:40,356 --> 00:21:42,796 Speaker 1: To this, and physically, how do you make that work? 453 00:21:42,876 --> 00:21:44,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. 454 00:21:44,436 --> 00:21:47,556 Speaker 1: Your bathroom is not connected to the water or the 455 00:21:47,556 --> 00:21:50,076 Speaker 1: sewer system of the city, right, so, like what's going 456 00:21:50,116 --> 00:21:52,476 Speaker 1: on kind of behind the scenes. It just looks like 457 00:21:52,476 --> 00:21:53,036 Speaker 1: a bathroom. 458 00:21:53,076 --> 00:21:56,396 Speaker 2: Basically, it looks like a bathroom. It looks like a cube. 459 00:21:56,596 --> 00:21:59,396 Speaker 2: It is eight feet by ten feet by nine feet. 460 00:22:00,036 --> 00:22:02,716 Speaker 3: It's a pretty big bathroom, right, that's pretty big for 461 00:22:02,756 --> 00:22:03,236 Speaker 3: a bathroom. 462 00:22:03,356 --> 00:22:05,636 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a pretty large bathroom. It has a ramp 463 00:22:05,676 --> 00:22:07,756 Speaker 2: and it's fully eighty eight compliance. Most people say it's 464 00:22:07,836 --> 00:22:09,676 Speaker 2: much bigger than I thought. It would be like four 465 00:22:09,676 --> 00:22:12,996 Speaker 2: porta potties, maybe five or six actually in square footage. 466 00:22:13,276 --> 00:22:15,876 Speaker 2: And there's you know, vinyl wrapping design on the outside 467 00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:18,196 Speaker 2: and sort of these instructions to get in as you 468 00:22:18,276 --> 00:22:22,236 Speaker 2: walk in. We have this kind of jungle print wallpaper feel. 469 00:22:22,796 --> 00:22:26,556 Speaker 2: All of this is intentionally designed to kind of dissuade graffiti. 470 00:22:27,396 --> 00:22:30,276 Speaker 2: All of it is anti graffiti coated, so if someone 471 00:22:30,316 --> 00:22:32,396 Speaker 2: does do something, we can sort of wash it away 472 00:22:32,396 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 2: with isopropyl alcohol or slap another leaf sticker on top. 473 00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:39,516 Speaker 2: Is another cool tactic that we've learned, you know. As 474 00:22:39,636 --> 00:22:43,236 Speaker 2: for your question about smell, I'd say our earlier units, 475 00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:45,676 Speaker 2: and the only reason I hesitated is we're a company 476 00:22:45,716 --> 00:22:47,956 Speaker 2: iterating all the time. Our earlier units were not as 477 00:22:47,956 --> 00:22:50,556 Speaker 2: good about isolating these bad smells when you are holding 478 00:22:50,796 --> 00:22:53,396 Speaker 2: a large amount of waste on board. But we've gotten 479 00:22:53,396 --> 00:22:55,436 Speaker 2: so much better, so our new units do not smell 480 00:22:55,716 --> 00:22:56,476 Speaker 2: like a porta potty? 481 00:22:56,516 --> 00:22:58,676 Speaker 1: How does it work? Like, how does the plumbing work? 482 00:22:58,716 --> 00:23:01,916 Speaker 2: You flush a toilet? We do use a vacuum assisted flush, 483 00:23:02,156 --> 00:23:04,316 Speaker 2: so it still has water, but it's about a quarter 484 00:23:04,356 --> 00:23:05,996 Speaker 2: of the water usage per flush. 485 00:23:06,116 --> 00:23:08,236 Speaker 1: So like on a plane, is it that kind of 486 00:23:08,316 --> 00:23:09,676 Speaker 1: vibe question? 487 00:23:10,036 --> 00:23:12,036 Speaker 2: In the design sessions, I said, I don't want this 488 00:23:12,116 --> 00:23:14,476 Speaker 2: to feel like a plane. There's a whole nother tangent 489 00:23:14,516 --> 00:23:16,876 Speaker 2: there about why that's so loud and the kind of 490 00:23:17,156 --> 00:23:19,956 Speaker 2: HydroD and namics happening there. But no, it's not quite 491 00:23:20,036 --> 00:23:23,356 Speaker 2: that intense. It's more just a light pull to allow 492 00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:26,156 Speaker 2: kind of a quarter gallon of water to flush, which 493 00:23:26,196 --> 00:23:27,356 Speaker 2: is very important, right. 494 00:23:27,236 --> 00:23:29,316 Speaker 1: You need less water because you just have a tank 495 00:23:29,356 --> 00:23:31,756 Speaker 1: of water there on the building such as it is, right, 496 00:23:31,796 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 1: you don't have you have a very limited water. 497 00:23:33,636 --> 00:23:37,876 Speaker 2: Supply, yes, yeah, And so it flushes through a macerat 498 00:23:37,956 --> 00:23:40,396 Speaker 2: or a system. So we're this, you know, if you're 499 00:23:40,436 --> 00:23:45,356 Speaker 2: eating breakfast, sorry, we kind of grind up what's going 500 00:23:45,356 --> 00:23:48,676 Speaker 2: down there, which is helpful also if people put unwanted 501 00:23:48,676 --> 00:23:51,756 Speaker 2: items down the toilet. And this is a very robust system. 502 00:23:51,756 --> 00:23:54,316 Speaker 2: It's it's our most expensive component on the unit, which 503 00:23:54,356 --> 00:23:56,356 Speaker 2: is sort of grinding things up and then using pumps 504 00:23:56,396 --> 00:23:58,556 Speaker 2: to pump it into a separate, large holding tank. And 505 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:00,556 Speaker 2: all of these things have sensors and in the back 506 00:24:00,636 --> 00:24:03,036 Speaker 2: end we know when we need to add fresh water 507 00:24:03,116 --> 00:24:05,676 Speaker 2: or pump the waste. And then you know, all the 508 00:24:05,756 --> 00:24:09,236 Speaker 2: traditional indoor plumbing techniques to keep smells from seeping in 509 00:24:09,356 --> 00:24:13,356 Speaker 2: are used, plus some since we're holding you know, basically 510 00:24:13,396 --> 00:24:16,676 Speaker 2: a septic tank on board to kind of extra ventilate 511 00:24:16,876 --> 00:24:19,556 Speaker 2: the system. And then you know, the other solved to 512 00:24:19,596 --> 00:24:21,796 Speaker 2: this is just ask people when it smells. And so 513 00:24:21,836 --> 00:24:24,516 Speaker 2: every once in a while, particularly at low use units 514 00:24:24,516 --> 00:24:26,916 Speaker 2: where we have to pump less frequently, and that ways 515 00:24:26,956 --> 00:24:29,556 Speaker 2: to sitting there longer. We'll a user every once in 516 00:24:29,556 --> 00:24:31,116 Speaker 2: a while will say it's starting to smell, and we 517 00:24:31,156 --> 00:24:33,596 Speaker 2: will go clean the tanks or pump and kind of 518 00:24:33,596 --> 00:24:34,076 Speaker 2: do a clean. 519 00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:36,716 Speaker 1: And then what happens when you leave? So you go 520 00:24:36,756 --> 00:24:39,156 Speaker 1: to the bathroom, you just open the door manually right 521 00:24:39,236 --> 00:24:41,876 Speaker 1: to get out, and then what happens. 522 00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:44,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, you either wave at a censor so you don't 523 00:24:44,516 --> 00:24:46,956 Speaker 2: have to touch anything the whole experience, or use a 524 00:24:46,956 --> 00:24:50,836 Speaker 2: manual lever to leave. That's when you'll get this text 525 00:24:50,876 --> 00:24:52,956 Speaker 2: how clean was your throne? And we're only going to 526 00:24:52,956 --> 00:24:54,836 Speaker 2: bother you once, but it helps to get a one 527 00:24:54,836 --> 00:24:57,796 Speaker 2: to five score on cleanliness. And that's really it. The 528 00:24:57,836 --> 00:24:59,756 Speaker 2: door is going to close behind you, and if there's 529 00:24:59,756 --> 00:25:02,596 Speaker 2: someone else waiting on the ramp, they'll walk in next 530 00:25:03,276 --> 00:25:06,636 Speaker 2: on a separate use account. Right, But that's pretty much it. 531 00:25:06,676 --> 00:25:08,636 Speaker 2: You're on with your day and we've solved your problem. 532 00:25:09,156 --> 00:25:12,956 Speaker 1: What percent of people reply to the how was it? Text? 533 00:25:13,596 --> 00:25:16,596 Speaker 2: Thirty to forty percent of text users and sixty to 534 00:25:16,636 --> 00:25:18,276 Speaker 2: seventy percent of app users. 535 00:25:19,516 --> 00:25:22,236 Speaker 1: So about half yeah, which I guess is a lot 536 00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:24,796 Speaker 1: replying to a random text about a toilet. 537 00:25:24,716 --> 00:25:26,636 Speaker 2: And it's all we need. And I think the more 538 00:25:26,676 --> 00:25:30,156 Speaker 2: important piece is it's probably biased. Negative people are more 539 00:25:30,196 --> 00:25:33,756 Speaker 2: likely to tell you when something's wrong. And the open 540 00:25:33,836 --> 00:25:36,356 Speaker 2: text part, you know, you should see the messages we get. 541 00:25:36,396 --> 00:25:38,796 Speaker 2: It's definitely a fun part of my end of my 542 00:25:38,916 --> 00:25:40,676 Speaker 2: day to have a glass of wine and look through 543 00:25:40,716 --> 00:25:44,076 Speaker 2: the comments. But you know, people tell you know, sometimes 544 00:25:44,076 --> 00:25:47,276 Speaker 2: it's just nice things about thanks for providing the service, 545 00:25:47,276 --> 00:25:51,076 Speaker 2: but sometimes it's hilarious details about something that needs help. 546 00:25:51,116 --> 00:25:53,876 Speaker 2: And so our users are our best sensors by far. 547 00:25:54,156 --> 00:25:56,996 Speaker 3: So where's the company now? Like, how many bathrooms do 548 00:25:57,036 --> 00:25:57,956 Speaker 3: you have out in the world. 549 00:25:57,836 --> 00:25:58,636 Speaker 1: And where are they? 550 00:25:58,876 --> 00:26:02,516 Speaker 2: We have seventy four bathrooms across four metropolitan areas right now. 551 00:26:03,316 --> 00:26:07,596 Speaker 2: We're in DC, LA, the Bay Area and ann Arbor, Detroit, 552 00:26:08,476 --> 00:26:12,236 Speaker 2: and you know, designing where to set up shop because 553 00:26:12,596 --> 00:26:14,436 Speaker 2: you might have realized by now we have a pretty 554 00:26:14,436 --> 00:26:17,316 Speaker 2: significant operation. Right We controlled the entire design of the system. 555 00:26:17,836 --> 00:26:20,916 Speaker 2: We partner with the manufacturer, Satellite Industries to build them 556 00:26:21,396 --> 00:26:22,956 Speaker 2: and then we ship them to the city. But then 557 00:26:22,996 --> 00:26:25,476 Speaker 2: we have local ops team to run, the clean team, 558 00:26:25,636 --> 00:26:28,396 Speaker 2: the pumping operations team, and the technician team. 559 00:26:28,836 --> 00:26:33,396 Speaker 1: Presumably you need some density of toilets for that to 560 00:26:33,476 --> 00:26:36,716 Speaker 1: be at all economical. Right, you can't have one then 561 00:26:36,956 --> 00:26:38,996 Speaker 1: it's too expensive. 562 00:26:38,676 --> 00:26:42,116 Speaker 2: Exactly, And around ten to fifteen units is sort of 563 00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:45,996 Speaker 2: the starting point to justify our setting up local operations. 564 00:26:45,996 --> 00:26:49,396 Speaker 1: And what's it cost and what's the business model? More generally, like, 565 00:26:49,436 --> 00:26:50,716 Speaker 1: how's how's the money side work? 566 00:26:51,596 --> 00:26:54,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've kind of taken i'd say the high 567 00:26:54,276 --> 00:26:57,076 Speaker 2: risk but long term value approach here, which is a 568 00:26:57,076 --> 00:27:00,476 Speaker 2: recurring revenue business model. And so that's what's very different about. 569 00:27:00,316 --> 00:27:03,356 Speaker 1: That means toilets as a service, toilets as. 570 00:27:03,316 --> 00:27:07,156 Speaker 2: A service, and you mentioned the New York bathroom. You know, 571 00:27:07,236 --> 00:27:08,956 Speaker 2: those are companies that are just selling a piece of 572 00:27:08,956 --> 00:27:10,636 Speaker 2: hard hardware and then the city is in charge of 573 00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:12,436 Speaker 2: doing all the insulation and by the way, all the 574 00:27:12,476 --> 00:27:14,596 Speaker 2: cleaning and servicing. So a big part of our value 575 00:27:14,596 --> 00:27:17,796 Speaker 2: proposition is we take care of everything. But that means 576 00:27:17,836 --> 00:27:19,956 Speaker 2: we get sort of a monthly piece of revenue from 577 00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:22,676 Speaker 2: the city, which is based on how difficult that location 578 00:27:22,796 --> 00:27:25,676 Speaker 2: is that might be high usage or an environment that's 579 00:27:25,676 --> 00:27:27,636 Speaker 2: just going to take more oversight. 580 00:27:27,756 --> 00:27:29,756 Speaker 1: If that makes sense, what's the cost to have one 581 00:27:29,756 --> 00:27:32,156 Speaker 1: of your toilets for a year, Like if I buy 582 00:27:32,156 --> 00:27:34,996 Speaker 1: whatever more or less, what's the range for the city. 583 00:27:35,036 --> 00:27:37,636 Speaker 2: Fifty to one hundred thousand dollars a year per bathroom. 584 00:27:37,316 --> 00:27:40,356 Speaker 1: Okay, which, like if I didn't know how messed up 585 00:27:40,396 --> 00:27:42,596 Speaker 1: cities were, would seem like a lot to me, right, 586 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:46,636 Speaker 1: like whatever, seventy five thousand dollars to have one toilet 587 00:27:46,716 --> 00:27:49,596 Speaker 1: for a year. On a certain level, it's crazy. 588 00:27:49,636 --> 00:27:52,236 Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's a bad deal relative to the alternatives, 589 00:27:52,276 --> 00:27:55,476 Speaker 3: but just in the abstract, it's sad that that's what 590 00:27:55,596 --> 00:27:58,276 Speaker 3: we've come to at sub level. Not your fault, right, 591 00:27:58,316 --> 00:28:01,236 Speaker 3: I'm not this is not your but it is wild 592 00:28:01,276 --> 00:28:01,956 Speaker 3: at some level. 593 00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:05,156 Speaker 2: No, I think there is the sticker shock idea. I 594 00:28:05,156 --> 00:28:07,316 Speaker 2: think people underestimate how hard it is to provide a 595 00:28:07,396 --> 00:28:11,876 Speaker 2: nice bathroom for the public. But yes, it might feel high. Again, 596 00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:14,236 Speaker 2: what really matters in a market is how much would 597 00:28:14,236 --> 00:28:16,916 Speaker 2: it cost otherwise? And I think the thing we've learned 598 00:28:16,916 --> 00:28:20,476 Speaker 2: in our customers have started learning is there's almost no 599 00:28:20,556 --> 00:28:24,956 Speaker 2: better value to get a ton of public appreciation, no 600 00:28:24,996 --> 00:28:28,116 Speaker 2: matter your political affiliation, than that amount of money for 601 00:28:28,156 --> 00:28:31,636 Speaker 2: all these users to just be surprised with this amenity 602 00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:33,956 Speaker 2: that is actually nice. I think it doesn't work if 603 00:28:33,956 --> 00:28:36,316 Speaker 2: it's a port of body. It has to be surprisingly nice, 604 00:28:36,636 --> 00:28:38,916 Speaker 2: and it has to be in the right location. But 605 00:28:39,236 --> 00:28:41,956 Speaker 2: I think we have to get over that initial sticker shock. 606 00:28:42,036 --> 00:28:44,316 Speaker 2: But we I'll say right now, we have not lost 607 00:28:44,356 --> 00:28:45,836 Speaker 2: one customer in over two years. 608 00:28:45,876 --> 00:28:48,836 Speaker 1: I mean, what I want as a citizen is for 609 00:28:48,876 --> 00:28:50,996 Speaker 1: somebody else to come along into what you're doing, to 610 00:28:50,996 --> 00:28:53,196 Speaker 1: be the lyft to your uber right. I want people 611 00:28:53,236 --> 00:28:57,036 Speaker 1: to get competed down to the marginal cost essentially. I mean, 612 00:28:57,076 --> 00:29:00,276 Speaker 1: presumably also scale will allow you to lower the price 613 00:29:00,316 --> 00:29:02,876 Speaker 1: if somebody is competing with you, right, Like, presumably if 614 00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:04,636 Speaker 1: you could do one hundred in a city, it's going 615 00:29:04,676 --> 00:29:06,396 Speaker 1: to be cheaper for you than ten in a city. 616 00:29:06,956 --> 00:29:09,516 Speaker 2: Yes, to the second point, I think, all so we're 617 00:29:09,516 --> 00:29:10,716 Speaker 2: starting with the hardest spots. 618 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:12,436 Speaker 1: When you say the hardest spots, what do you mean, 619 00:29:12,516 --> 00:29:12,796 Speaker 1: just to. 620 00:29:12,756 --> 00:29:17,316 Speaker 2: Be clear, extremely high usage and high vandalism potential. I see, 621 00:29:17,876 --> 00:29:20,356 Speaker 2: And I think we will come up with other product 622 00:29:20,356 --> 00:29:23,196 Speaker 2: lines that serve other locations that can be cheaper to 623 00:29:23,556 --> 00:29:26,796 Speaker 2: really satisfy our mission of you know, dramatically expanding bathroom 624 00:29:26,796 --> 00:29:30,436 Speaker 2: access for everybody. So it might sound expensive, but keep 625 00:29:30,436 --> 00:29:33,516 Speaker 2: in mind, that's solving the problem where a security guard 626 00:29:33,556 --> 00:29:36,316 Speaker 2: is typically needed, which which is like twenty thousand dollars 627 00:29:36,356 --> 00:29:38,276 Speaker 2: a month in those locations. 628 00:29:38,476 --> 00:29:41,636 Speaker 1: That's for like round the clock security guard presumably. 629 00:29:41,276 --> 00:29:42,796 Speaker 2: Which is tends to be what it takes in some 630 00:29:42,836 --> 00:29:45,076 Speaker 2: of these locations to have a bathroom not fall apart 631 00:29:45,076 --> 00:29:46,196 Speaker 2: within a couple months. 632 00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:48,716 Speaker 1: I know that you have a couple of patents one 633 00:29:48,756 --> 00:29:52,156 Speaker 1: two three four oh six four four B two Systems 634 00:29:52,156 --> 00:29:56,556 Speaker 1: and Methods for Managing Publicly Accessible Amenities System and Method 635 00:29:56,596 --> 00:30:00,956 Speaker 1: for Advanced Portable Bathroom Facilities pending. Like what is the 636 00:30:00,956 --> 00:30:02,116 Speaker 1: competitive landscape? 637 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,676 Speaker 2: Like? First of all, the hilarious part of the intellectual 638 00:30:05,676 --> 00:30:08,836 Speaker 2: property landscape is like every farmer in America has some 639 00:30:09,156 --> 00:30:10,916 Speaker 2: toilet patent, right. 640 00:30:12,156 --> 00:30:14,676 Speaker 1: Yes, I did wonder about the defensibility of those patents 641 00:30:14,716 --> 00:30:17,676 Speaker 1: to be honest, like, you know, non obviousness to someone 642 00:30:17,756 --> 00:30:20,436 Speaker 1: skilled in the art as a criterion, Right, So I'd 643 00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:21,556 Speaker 1: be curious to see. 644 00:30:21,716 --> 00:30:24,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, the white space all comes down to this accountability 645 00:30:24,796 --> 00:30:27,156 Speaker 2: side of things, you know, the how do we use 646 00:30:27,276 --> 00:30:30,156 Speaker 2: a smart piece of hardware to kind of, you know, 647 00:30:30,316 --> 00:30:34,596 Speaker 2: basically manage a distributed bathroom user base. I'd say that's 648 00:30:34,636 --> 00:30:37,436 Speaker 2: more where we focused on the intellectual property side, but 649 00:30:37,796 --> 00:30:41,436 Speaker 2: you know, not trying to kind of patent a sensor 650 00:30:41,476 --> 00:30:44,076 Speaker 2: in a bathroom or something like that. But I think 651 00:30:44,316 --> 00:30:49,116 Speaker 2: broadly the defensibility here is like six or sevenfold, and 652 00:30:49,156 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 2: it really comes down to how difficult it is to 653 00:30:51,396 --> 00:30:55,036 Speaker 2: stand up an organization with a scale manufacturing capability, a 654 00:30:55,036 --> 00:30:59,756 Speaker 2: distributed municipal sales and marketing force, and local operations. It's 655 00:30:59,796 --> 00:31:02,436 Speaker 2: just difficult to do all these things. And I think 656 00:31:03,116 --> 00:31:06,676 Speaker 2: no one has has really ever put all the effort 657 00:31:06,676 --> 00:31:09,436 Speaker 2: and by the way, capital risk to get this off 658 00:31:09,436 --> 00:31:09,916 Speaker 2: the ground. 659 00:31:10,276 --> 00:31:13,876 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mentioned capital risk, which is particularly pertinent 660 00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:15,796 Speaker 1: given the business model you've chosen. Right, It's not like 661 00:31:15,836 --> 00:31:18,636 Speaker 1: somebody's like, give us a bathroom. Here's a million dollars, 662 00:31:18,676 --> 00:31:20,316 Speaker 1: and you go spend a million dollars to give them 663 00:31:20,316 --> 00:31:23,396 Speaker 1: a bathroom. It's like, we'll pay you whatever, seventy five 664 00:31:23,396 --> 00:31:25,236 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year if you put a bathroom. And 665 00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:27,276 Speaker 1: then so you have to pay for the bathroom up front. 666 00:31:27,556 --> 00:31:31,076 Speaker 1: What's your cost more or less to get that physical bathroom? 667 00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:33,556 Speaker 2: Fifty thousand more or less. And we're working to get 668 00:31:33,556 --> 00:31:33,876 Speaker 2: that down. 669 00:31:34,036 --> 00:31:35,076 Speaker 1: Tell me about growth. 670 00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:37,476 Speaker 2: We're on a little bit of an inflection point. We have, yeah, 671 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:40,836 Speaker 2: seventy four bathrooms, but another fifty or so already contracted 672 00:31:40,876 --> 00:31:42,516 Speaker 2: and sort of on the way out. 673 00:31:42,436 --> 00:31:45,236 Speaker 1: In that same set of metros, that same set of 674 00:31:45,396 --> 00:31:46,796 Speaker 1: cities exactly. 675 00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:50,436 Speaker 2: But we are kind of prospecting for the next three markets, 676 00:31:50,476 --> 00:31:53,156 Speaker 2: which I think will be you know, in the first 677 00:31:53,156 --> 00:31:54,356 Speaker 2: half of next year. 678 00:31:54,396 --> 00:31:55,476 Speaker 1: New York, New York. 679 00:31:55,796 --> 00:31:58,876 Speaker 2: So New York is buoys it on my list, and 680 00:31:58,956 --> 00:32:01,476 Speaker 2: we've had kind of a long history of discussions. There 681 00:32:02,196 --> 00:32:07,036 Speaker 2: some political uncertainty in that city right now, and it's 682 00:32:07,076 --> 00:32:10,556 Speaker 2: a tricky operational city, so the right kind of deal 683 00:32:10,676 --> 00:32:12,276 Speaker 2: to make it worth our while as well. 684 00:32:12,396 --> 00:32:15,196 Speaker 1: Tree operations just like hard to drive, hard to move. 685 00:32:15,036 --> 00:32:17,116 Speaker 2: Hard to get around in that city, right Yeah, but 686 00:32:17,276 --> 00:32:19,996 Speaker 2: there's also and just each of those units is going 687 00:32:20,036 --> 00:32:22,116 Speaker 2: to be one hundred and seventy uses a day. But 688 00:32:22,236 --> 00:32:24,076 Speaker 2: absolutely we want to come to New York. I think 689 00:32:24,116 --> 00:32:26,116 Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven is our goal for New York, if 690 00:32:26,116 --> 00:32:29,276 Speaker 2: anyone's listening, and we would love you know, there's mandates 691 00:32:29,276 --> 00:32:32,036 Speaker 2: in New York to bring two thousand more bathrooms over 692 00:32:32,076 --> 00:32:33,516 Speaker 2: the next ten years, and we'd love to do that 693 00:32:33,596 --> 00:32:35,756 Speaker 2: in one or two years. And we think we have 694 00:32:35,796 --> 00:32:38,516 Speaker 2: the solution for that. But I think what cities to 695 00:32:38,596 --> 00:32:41,396 Speaker 2: choose is a huge question, and we have a lot 696 00:32:41,396 --> 00:32:43,996 Speaker 2: of interesting insights from you know, we've got East coast, 697 00:32:44,036 --> 00:32:48,316 Speaker 2: West coast, we've got cold climate, warm climate, and political differences, 698 00:32:48,876 --> 00:32:51,556 Speaker 2: walk ability, drive ability, all these different things that feed 699 00:32:51,596 --> 00:32:53,756 Speaker 2: into it, I think, and to some extent, we're at 700 00:32:53,756 --> 00:32:56,036 Speaker 2: this place where we have cities a little bit competing 701 00:32:56,076 --> 00:32:58,676 Speaker 2: with each other. You know, do you really want thrown here. 702 00:32:58,756 --> 00:33:00,476 Speaker 2: Let's get fifteen or twenty and we will come to 703 00:33:00,516 --> 00:33:02,996 Speaker 2: you so that we can kind of set up shop 704 00:33:03,116 --> 00:33:06,956 Speaker 2: in an economically efficient way. And there's also the more bathrooms, 705 00:33:06,956 --> 00:33:08,996 Speaker 2: more density, the better service we can provide. 706 00:33:09,196 --> 00:33:10,916 Speaker 1: You think you'll expand beyond toilets. 707 00:33:11,356 --> 00:33:15,996 Speaker 2: No, I think there's so many temptations. An early pitch 708 00:33:16,076 --> 00:33:19,636 Speaker 2: deck I had a sort of food locker for door 709 00:33:19,676 --> 00:33:21,476 Speaker 2: desh to drop food off on the side of the 710 00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:23,396 Speaker 2: outside of the bathroom and people could come pick it up. 711 00:33:23,396 --> 00:33:25,796 Speaker 2: And I had an early investor say, never put food 712 00:33:25,836 --> 00:33:29,676 Speaker 2: next to a bathroom again. So and you know, you 713 00:33:29,676 --> 00:33:32,156 Speaker 2: could do scooter charging, you could do all these other things. 714 00:33:33,036 --> 00:33:35,116 Speaker 2: I think where we have come as sort of a 715 00:33:35,156 --> 00:33:39,436 Speaker 2: management team is there's so many other bathroom problems to 716 00:33:39,516 --> 00:33:41,756 Speaker 2: solve outside of I don't think this will be our 717 00:33:41,796 --> 00:33:45,556 Speaker 2: only product. I think we are really interested in existing 718 00:33:45,596 --> 00:33:48,636 Speaker 2: bathroom infrastructure and how to make that better and in 719 00:33:48,796 --> 00:33:51,916 Speaker 2: other kind of ways to solve people's bathroom problems. But 720 00:33:51,916 --> 00:33:53,996 Speaker 2: I think we are focused on just being the best 721 00:33:54,036 --> 00:33:56,756 Speaker 2: bathroom company, and having thrown be associated with a pleasant 722 00:33:56,756 --> 00:33:59,756 Speaker 2: bathroom experience has a lot of interesting knock on effects 723 00:33:59,756 --> 00:34:01,956 Speaker 2: and other kind of revenue streams associated with it. 724 00:34:02,356 --> 00:34:05,836 Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned existing bathrooms, like could you just 725 00:34:05,916 --> 00:34:09,356 Speaker 1: put a new door on an existing bathroom and have 726 00:34:09,436 --> 00:34:12,116 Speaker 1: it tied to somebody's cell phone number. I mean that 727 00:34:12,156 --> 00:34:15,756 Speaker 1: seems like that would do a ton of useful work, 728 00:34:16,276 --> 00:34:18,516 Speaker 1: Like there are already a lot of bathrooms they just suck. 729 00:34:19,556 --> 00:34:21,796 Speaker 2: Yes, I think if you think of it as supply 730 00:34:21,836 --> 00:34:24,516 Speaker 2: and demand, you know the and I do. I think 731 00:34:24,556 --> 00:34:27,956 Speaker 2: of bathroom demand as a thing, and you can kind 732 00:34:27,956 --> 00:34:30,196 Speaker 2: of picture a city with these kind of hot spots 733 00:34:30,236 --> 00:34:32,076 Speaker 2: and different times like this is when people need to 734 00:34:32,076 --> 00:34:33,836 Speaker 2: pee and this is when people need to poop. And 735 00:34:33,876 --> 00:34:38,076 Speaker 2: we decided to start by that, you know, dramatically expanding supply. 736 00:34:38,836 --> 00:34:40,476 Speaker 2: But I think there's another approach, which is, you know, 737 00:34:40,676 --> 00:34:44,316 Speaker 2: increasing the equality or efficiency of existing supply, and there 738 00:34:44,356 --> 00:34:46,876 Speaker 2: have been companies that have sort of tried this. I 739 00:34:46,916 --> 00:34:49,236 Speaker 2: think what we would do is sort of, yes, bring 740 00:34:49,276 --> 00:34:53,956 Speaker 2: this sort of accountability feature and kind of user driven 741 00:34:54,516 --> 00:34:58,436 Speaker 2: kind of real time feedback to that space, and we're 742 00:34:58,476 --> 00:35:01,156 Speaker 2: doing it. That is going to be a future piece 743 00:35:01,156 --> 00:35:03,476 Speaker 2: of Thrones offering, because there's just so many of our 744 00:35:03,516 --> 00:35:06,276 Speaker 2: own customers who say, like, we love what you're doing. 745 00:35:06,636 --> 00:35:08,916 Speaker 2: We've got all this infrastructure, can you help us manage 746 00:35:08,916 --> 00:35:12,076 Speaker 2: these because it's a headache, and so you know absolutely 747 00:35:12,116 --> 00:35:13,876 Speaker 2: that's going to be a piece of our future. 748 00:35:18,516 --> 00:35:20,676 Speaker 4: We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round. 749 00:35:32,476 --> 00:35:35,236 Speaker 4: Let's finish with the lightning round, with the what a 750 00:35:35,316 --> 00:35:35,956 Speaker 4: lightning round? 751 00:35:36,036 --> 00:35:36,196 Speaker 1: Oh? 752 00:35:36,436 --> 00:35:39,356 Speaker 3: I ask you a bunch of fast, random questions, like 753 00:35:40,356 --> 00:35:42,756 Speaker 3: what's one thing you learned doing stand up comedy? 754 00:35:42,876 --> 00:35:45,876 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, where did you find this on the internet? 755 00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:49,596 Speaker 2: That I am not as good of a comedian as my. 756 00:35:49,556 --> 00:35:52,316 Speaker 1: Sister, Your sister, who, by the way, was a cast 757 00:35:52,356 --> 00:35:55,436 Speaker 1: member on Saturday Night Live. Not trivial, but let's not. 758 00:35:55,356 --> 00:35:57,076 Speaker 2: Talk about her. She gets all the credit. This one's 759 00:35:57,116 --> 00:36:00,796 Speaker 2: about me, fair, I'm kidding. Oh. One other thing, I 760 00:36:00,876 --> 00:36:02,236 Speaker 2: one of the thing I learned in stand up comedy 761 00:36:02,276 --> 00:36:04,156 Speaker 2: is don't invite your boss to your comedy show. 762 00:36:04,276 --> 00:36:06,556 Speaker 1: What happened when you invited your boss to your comedy show? 763 00:36:06,636 --> 00:36:08,556 Speaker 2: I bombed In the next two months were the most 764 00:36:08,556 --> 00:36:09,836 Speaker 2: miserable work months of my life. 765 00:36:10,476 --> 00:36:11,196 Speaker 1: Was that causal? 766 00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:16,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, Probably not unrelated. 767 00:36:15,796 --> 00:36:17,756 Speaker 1: Could have been. It'd be amazing if it was. 768 00:36:18,836 --> 00:36:22,316 Speaker 3: So. You have four kids, as I understand, how many 769 00:36:22,316 --> 00:36:23,556 Speaker 3: toilets do you have in your house? 770 00:36:25,036 --> 00:36:27,276 Speaker 2: We have three toilets, which is one fewer than how 771 00:36:27,356 --> 00:36:27,916 Speaker 2: many kids we. 772 00:36:27,956 --> 00:36:29,956 Speaker 1: Have, So three for six people. 773 00:36:29,996 --> 00:36:34,876 Speaker 2: That seems fine, it's enough, but I need more toilets 774 00:36:34,916 --> 00:36:37,036 Speaker 2: proportionally per capita than most. 775 00:36:37,276 --> 00:36:40,596 Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yeah. We had two kids, and we had 776 00:36:40,836 --> 00:36:43,596 Speaker 1: had lived in a one bathroom apartment a two bedroom, 777 00:36:43,636 --> 00:36:46,276 Speaker 1: one bath and like the one toilet was much more 778 00:36:46,316 --> 00:36:48,636 Speaker 1: of a constraint than the two bedrooms for four people, 779 00:36:49,196 --> 00:36:51,876 Speaker 1: that's a tough ratio. It was a tough ratio. Best 780 00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:53,476 Speaker 1: public bathroom you've ever used? 781 00:36:54,756 --> 00:36:59,276 Speaker 2: I was recently in Charlotte Airport. I feel like airports 782 00:36:59,276 --> 00:37:02,316 Speaker 2: have really stepped up their game recently, and you have 783 00:37:02,436 --> 00:37:06,716 Speaker 2: these sort of just red and green sort of available 784 00:37:06,756 --> 00:37:09,556 Speaker 2: stalls that you just sort of have hand washing. Everyone 785 00:37:09,596 --> 00:37:13,036 Speaker 2: goes in and it's very private. Each stall is like 786 00:37:13,076 --> 00:37:16,756 Speaker 2: its own space with a floor to ceiling door and 787 00:37:17,076 --> 00:37:22,316 Speaker 2: smells and materials, air quality. Everything was just on point. 788 00:37:22,396 --> 00:37:24,276 Speaker 2: So I think airports are starting to do it right. 789 00:37:24,956 --> 00:37:26,716 Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. It was great to talk 790 00:37:26,756 --> 00:37:27,556 Speaker 1: with you. 791 00:37:27,556 --> 00:37:29,516 Speaker 2: You too, Jacob, that was so fun. Thank you very much. 792 00:37:29,556 --> 00:37:33,636 Speaker 1: Good luck. I truly hope your bathrooms or someone's bathrooms 793 00:37:33,676 --> 00:37:34,196 Speaker 1: come to New. 794 00:37:34,156 --> 00:37:36,276 Speaker 2: York, and when they do, I hope to see a 795 00:37:36,316 --> 00:37:38,116 Speaker 2: message through SMS from you. 796 00:37:38,116 --> 00:37:40,516 Speaker 1: You better know it's me. I won't. 797 00:37:40,516 --> 00:37:42,156 Speaker 2: But if you say, if you write your name in, 798 00:37:42,196 --> 00:37:43,396 Speaker 2: I'll know I'm not writing my name. 799 00:37:44,596 --> 00:37:46,756 Speaker 1: I'll respond, Okay, I'm still not going to do it. 800 00:37:52,876 --> 00:37:56,716 Speaker 1: Pledger Wilson is the co founder and CEO of Throne Labs. 801 00:37:57,396 --> 00:38:00,716 Speaker 1: Please email us at problem at pushkin dot fm. We 802 00:38:00,796 --> 00:38:04,516 Speaker 1: are always looking for new guests for the show. Today's 803 00:38:04,516 --> 00:38:08,316 Speaker 1: show was produced by Trinamanino and Gabriel Hunter Chang. It 804 00:38:08,476 --> 00:38:12,876 Speaker 1: was edited Alexander Garriton and engineered by Sarah Bruguer. I'm 805 00:38:12,916 --> 00:38:15,196 Speaker 1: Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with another 806 00:38:15,236 --> 00:38:24,316 Speaker 1: episode of What's Your Problem