Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.
Speaker 1: Done, Hello everybody, and welcome to That's Messed Up, an
Speaker 1: SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. We talk SVU
Speaker 2: true crime. We have celeb guests up top. We catch up,
Speaker 2: we chit shot right now. We're also a scandabal drag race.
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on. We also just hung out
Speaker 1: in New York together.
Speaker 3: We just did.
Speaker 1: I took Rosie on a little spring break trip to
Speaker 1: New York. We saw Lisa for a little pre Lion
Speaker 1: King lunch. Embarrassingly, she ran up to Lisa, gave her
Speaker 1: a huge hug, and then said, do you have a
Speaker 1: present for me? Because she knows Lisa gives her presence
Speaker 1: and so now that's the association.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so I'm like, no, that's rude.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, but to be fair, Lisa is
Speaker 1: a big gift.
Speaker 3: Giver, so.
Speaker 2: I know, but I don't know what I want to
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a belated birthday present.
Speaker 3: But I'm not. I haven't found.
Speaker 1: Thee as belated as you want, because she's still like
Speaker 1: we had to take a separate bag back from New York,
Speaker 1: like that I did not bring there of like all
Speaker 1: the crap my mom gave her, my sister, my brothers,
Speaker 1: like everybody gave her stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was I found something on the line
Speaker 2: that I really like, but I'm not.
Speaker 3: I got to think on its own.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, hold on, you guys got upgraded. You weren't
Speaker 2: laid down my lapbeds. How did Rosie like first class?
Speaker 1: Well, of course it's like over her head, Like I
Speaker 1: kept being like, Rosie, we're going to get to sit
Speaker 1: in this special section of the plane where we get
Speaker 1: to lie down. She loved the lounge. She loved the
Speaker 1: lounge like she got to pick what she wanted to eat.
Speaker 1: And then I got her lemonade. And then she saw
Speaker 1: this ice cream scoop station because it was Easter, they
Speaker 1: were giving out little ice cream scoops and cups with
Speaker 1: like toppings, and she was like a like and she
Speaker 1: could pick like she first she had a cookie because
Speaker 1: I didn't see the ice cream scoop station, and then
Speaker 1: she saw that and was like she just loved that,
Speaker 1: and she was having a ball at the lounge then
Speaker 1: on the thing to her, like a coach seat is
Speaker 1: like a lie out seat practically, I mean like she
Speaker 1: doesn't care and she doesn't want to sleep, like I
Speaker 1: tried to get her to sleep so badly.
Speaker 3: I lied our seats all the way down.
Speaker 1: I've never flown Delta one, so it was like a
Speaker 1: real treat for me, and I gotta say, wow, that's
Speaker 1: really nice.
Speaker 2: What did you eat ravioli or no, cause it's usually
Speaker 2: a mushirt.
Speaker 3: They didn't give you a vegetarian option.
Speaker 1: They didn't give me a vegetarian option, And so I
Speaker 1: picked this chicken thing and the woman goes, it's really
Speaker 1: easy to pick the chicken off, And when it got there,
Speaker 1: it was frozen solid, and I was like, forget it.
Speaker 1: I'm just not gonna eat. I just ate like the
Speaker 1: little snacks they brought by. And I had some sparkling wine,
Speaker 1: and I don't usually drink on planes, but for some reason,
Speaker 1: when you're in Delta one, it feels right. So I
Speaker 1: had a great time, like just being able to like
Speaker 1: lie down and like have my back and but not hurt,
Speaker 1: like was so nice, and I totally get why people
Speaker 1: do it. I mean, I don't see myself doing it
Speaker 1: again unless it's the upgrade situation. But basically what happened
Speaker 1: to everybody is they canceled my flight, and then when I
Speaker 1: called and I said, I'm traveling with my daughter, I
Speaker 1: really need to go earlier, they were like, okay, we
Speaker 1: actually were able to get you on Delta one for
Speaker 1: the five thirty flights. So but then it's like she's
Speaker 1: so tired when she gets there. She was crying in
Speaker 1: the uber, going I need a blanket. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't have a blanket.
Speaker 3: She's like, yes, you do. She's like accusing me.
Speaker 1: So it was a pain in the ass, but they
Speaker 1: did make up for it with the Delta one. I
Speaker 1: want to check my Delta app and see if I
Speaker 1: get Do I get extra miles for Delta one since
Speaker 1: I didn't spend it.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. But always were always worth all. Look,
Speaker 2: since you canceled your flight, you could fangle it.
Speaker 3: I had a moment. So there's memes.
Speaker 2: About this where it's like you want to be the
Speaker 2: most efficient person at TSA and it's like for what
Speaker 2: And I didn't have a TSA moment. But as I
Speaker 2: pulled up to the gate agent, not the gate agent,
Speaker 2: but like the baggage dry Yeah, the woman went, wow,
Speaker 2: you're so prepared. We love a prepared queen. And I
Speaker 2: was like, this is all I live for, like I
Speaker 2: was and and I have air pods now, you know,
Speaker 2: I just bought air pods, and so I was like,
Speaker 2: I had my friend in my ear, I had my phone,
Speaker 2: my ID, everything was ready, and she just complimented me.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm living in the future, man,
Speaker 2: Like I do love my AirPods.
Speaker 3: I don't know why I held out for so fucking long.
Speaker 1: They're so great, Like I can just like do chores
Speaker 1: around the house while I'm listening to something too, and
Speaker 1: no one else has to hear, Like I really love AirPods.
Speaker 3: Well, so our friend did send us a DEMI.
Speaker 2: So if anyone is on desmis, maybe you saw this
Speaker 2: and this is the des moin it says end quote.
Speaker 2: My fiance worked on a season of SVU and for
Speaker 2: the holidays that year, Marishka gave everyone five hundred dollars
Speaker 2: gift cards in addition to the company holiday gifts. Least
Speaker 2: favorite rap gift He's received are personalized crocs show Celebritt acted.
Speaker 2: That's fine, but five hundred dollars. I mean, if you're
Speaker 2: that rich, why not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna really help people at Christmas. And that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything to her. I mean she's well so
Speaker 1: famously not famously. Since we've recorded this episode last my
Speaker 1: brother comes to visit me in La We go to
Speaker 1: six Flags.
Speaker 3: I lose my phone.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I told you guys that it fell out
Speaker 1: of my pocket on a roller coaster. Then my brother
Speaker 1: goes to fly home on that Saturday, and uh, Marishkagte
Speaker 1: is in Delta one with him. My brother paid for
Speaker 1: Delta one and he is in there and he goes,
Speaker 1: I think I see Marisha Gargat's husband on this flight
Speaker 1: with me. And then he goes, it is him and
Speaker 1: she's with him, and I'm like, how is this possible?
Speaker 3: Everyone sees her except for us.
Speaker 2: Well, and then we were eating lunch in New York
Speaker 2: and our friend went to take a work call, comes
Speaker 2: back out faith full of Joy. Marishka was on the
Speaker 2: streets of New York filming svo so she then Summerish
Speaker 2: go on the street.
Speaker 1: And then we saw we saw her post to her
Speaker 1: Instagram that she was in Times Square like a block
Speaker 1: from where we were eating. Yea, so we could have
Speaker 1: like gone out and tried to Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't think we would have done anything, but we
Speaker 1: could have gone out there, and we.
Speaker 3: Did see her close.
Speaker 2: He's ceremony and that's still in me.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm still having that.
Speaker 1: That magic is still there. But that is, Uh, that
Speaker 1: was so funny. Just like two of our people close
Speaker 1: to us had run ins with her within like five days,
Speaker 1: and then we were right near her. But anyway, maybe
Speaker 1: that's uh the universe telling us we're getting closer. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you. I wanted to bring this up
Speaker 1: because I'm obsessed right now. My siblings and I love
Speaker 1: true crime. We always like to watch like the same
Speaker 1: stuff as each other. So when we were in Connectic,
Speaker 1: when I was in Connecticut after a couple days in
Speaker 1: New York, I took my daughter out to Connecticut to
Speaker 1: stay with my brother and like, uh, we watched this
Speaker 1: peacock documentary call Who Killed Robert Wan? And it's one
Speaker 1: is spelled wne. It's a wild fucking case and I
Speaker 1: really kind of want you to watch it. It's only
Speaker 1: two episodes, two one hour episodes, and it's on Peacock
Speaker 1: and it's this crazy case. I hope if somebody is
Speaker 1: listening that has watched this or knows about this case,
Speaker 1: like it basically to summarize it.
Speaker 3: Like in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: In DuPont, which is where we recently performed, which is
Speaker 1: a nice ass area of DC. In this beautiful row house,
Speaker 1: these two guys live that are married to each other,
Speaker 1: and then they have a third guy who lives there
Speaker 1: who's like the third in their relationship.
Speaker 3: They call themselves a family.
Speaker 1: One of the guys in the married couple is good
Speaker 1: friends with this guy, Robert Wan, who he's known for
Speaker 1: twelve years, even longer, like years and years since the
Speaker 1: guy was eighteen fourteen years he's known him. And the
Speaker 1: guy Robert is like, can I come over and stay
Speaker 1: at your guy's house so that I don't have to
Speaker 1: like commute out to the burbs and I come back
Speaker 1: to work tomorrow. They're like, no problems, stay in our
Speaker 1: guest room. He gets there. Within seventy nine minutes, there's
Speaker 1: a nine on one call that he's been stabbed. All
Speaker 1: three of the men that live in the house. When
Speaker 1: the cops get there, are freshly showered in white robes.
Speaker 1: The man has three almost surgical stab wounds in his
Speaker 1: torso and there's barely any blood. There's like barely any blood.
Speaker 1: And the whole situation is so fucking crazy. They invented
Speaker 1: that there's an intruder. They said an intruder came in.
Speaker 1: We heard a grunt, we heard the door open, but
Speaker 1: they never saw an intruder. The knife was sitting on
Speaker 1: the counter.
Speaker 3: He just seems so young. This is sad fu.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was thirty two. He was this nice guy.
Speaker 1: He just wanted to become a lawyer soho could help people,
Speaker 1: Like I think he did nonprofit law or something like that.
Speaker 1: He had a wife everybody. So now I'm deep in Reddit.
Speaker 1: My siblings and I have been literally batting around like
Speaker 1: theories for the last seventy two hours, and I'm on Reddit.
Speaker 1: People are like some people are saying it was like
Speaker 1: sex plagu gone wild. There's like zero proof that this
Speaker 1: guy was into any of that. He's been friends with
Speaker 1: these guys for years and years and one of the guys,
Speaker 1: the third in the relationship, had like a closet full
Speaker 1: of like sex toys, dom masks, like crazy electromagnetic So
Speaker 1: here's one of the crazy parts of it. They find
Speaker 1: semen on the victim's penis and in his rectum when
Speaker 1: they tested it's his own semen, So everyone's like, how
Speaker 1: did it get up there? And then they find all
Speaker 1: these what they call joy toys in the documentary, they
Speaker 1: find all these toys and now it's like, oh, did
Speaker 1: they electromagnetic shock him, like what we've talked about on
Speaker 1: us on our podcast, like and to get him to come.
Speaker 1: Like it's a crazy story, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: give more away because there's so many little details. But
Speaker 1: there's also huge cop fuck ups that happen in it
Speaker 1: as well. It's it's a ride. If you have two hours,
Speaker 1: I would just suggest it. But it is sad.
Speaker 3: It's sad, and nobody fucking knows.
Speaker 1: Like it's really like unsolved, but it's not really unsolved
Speaker 1: in my opinion. In my opinion, they're responsible, whether they
Speaker 1: did it on purpose or by accident. I think they're
Speaker 1: responsible for him dying. But it's wild. That was your
Speaker 1: the clink, that was the family fun. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: we were doing. And does Collins husband like this stuff too?
Speaker 1: Or yes, yes, and then we watched we were really
Speaker 1: deep and I was like, Lisa said, the woman in
Speaker 1: the photograph is really fucked up, and they were like
Speaker 1: maybe too dark, and so we kept watch, we kept scrolling.
Speaker 1: We were really getting into the and we ended up
Speaker 1: watching the story of did you ever hear of this
Speaker 1: guy named Kai who saved a woman from being hit
Speaker 1: by this guy who was fucked up and was like
Speaker 1: trying to strangle this woman and he was a hitch
Speaker 1: hiker and he hit him three times and he goes smash, smash, smash,
Speaker 1: and then he became a viral sensation. He was on
Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel and he was called the hatchet wielding hitchhiker.
Speaker 1: But then he murdered someone. We watched that one. We
Speaker 1: watched that one together. It's wild that one is like
Speaker 1: a one hour, one and a half hour one off thing.
Speaker 1: But it was just crazy, like because it happened in
Speaker 1: like I think twentyd and like twelve or thirteen, and
Speaker 1: I feel like that was like the peak time for
Speaker 1: like tan mom or like you getting super famous off
Speaker 1: of being viral. Now, I feel like something goes viral
Speaker 1: and like you don't really know who that person is
Speaker 1: in like five days.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But this was like this guy was getting offers for
Speaker 1: reality shows, like a producer from the Kardashians was like
Speaker 1: letting him stay at her house, like he was getting
Speaker 1: all this shit like and he was this hippie dude
Speaker 1: with like you know who played guitar who said he
Speaker 1: was homeless by choice. And then you find out all
Speaker 1: this fucking stuff and uh, it's wild, but that's Those
Speaker 1: are the two little true crime jockeys that I watched
Speaker 1: with that with my fam.
Speaker 2: No, I got deep into love. I didn't watch the
Speaker 2: last season of Love is Blind. I think it jumped
Speaker 2: the show. I wasn't interested in that cast, but this
Speaker 2: one did pique my interests. And then I had a
Speaker 2: phone call with a friend yesterday and then I went, okay,
Speaker 2: and now I'm nine episodes in and I know I.
Speaker 1: Love You're like I started last night. I'm nine episodes in.
Speaker 2: I watched it all that it's it's it's like a
Speaker 2: good cat.
Speaker 3: I mean, the casting did a great job. Like what
Speaker 3: can I say?
Speaker 2: They did a great job and it but I did okay,
Speaker 2: so Karen knows I follow this account called a little nudge.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, so I messaged her.
Speaker 2: I'm like, thoughts on love is blind, and she's like
Speaker 2: really blind if you follow her, Like when people ask
Speaker 2: for advice, she's very much like you did wrong, Like no,
Speaker 2: this is bad, Like she she doesn't beat around the bush,
Speaker 2: so she's I was like, maybe alive. She goes, people
Speaker 2: aren't really interested, like what do you want from me?
Speaker 2: And so I was like, well, can you fall in
Speaker 2: love this fast? Like what are your beliefs on this?
Speaker 2: Like is this psychotic? Is this real? Like can you
Speaker 2: do this? And she goes, in short, I think it's insane.
Speaker 2: She goes, it's made for good TV. But she believes
Speaker 2: in the classic, like you need to know someone through
Speaker 2: all four seasons before committing to a life.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something. I haven't dated in thirteen years. Really,
Speaker 1: I've been like out of the whole. I never really
Speaker 1: even got to hit the app games. I did match
Speaker 1: and stuff or not match like e harmony. But like,
Speaker 1: this woman's account is so interesting. I just love the
Speaker 1: way people come to her and they're so sure that
Speaker 1: they didn't do anything wrong and that the other person
Speaker 1: is like ghosting them or playing a game with them,
Speaker 1: and it's like, but you didn't make it clear to
Speaker 1: them what you wanted, you know, Like she's very but
Speaker 1: then blunt. Yeah, and then she also says, yeah, you
Speaker 1: can reach out to her if you want to make
Speaker 1: sure she's okay, but you're not gonna hear back from
Speaker 1: her like she ghosted you. Like she's blunt, and I
Speaker 1: really like that because I think that's what.
Speaker 3: People need to hear. Well or it's people. Ah she
Speaker 3: said this, She's like, just ask this person.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Like you want to be in a
Speaker 2: relationship with a person and yet you refuse to communicate
Speaker 2: with them for what you want, Like what kind of
Speaker 2: life are you trying to? Yeah, it just makes no
Speaker 2: sense where it's like, well he said it's exclusive, and
Speaker 2: I googled what it means and I that's not a
Speaker 2: ment girl friend and boyfriend, but it doesn't.
Speaker 3: So what ask this person that.
Speaker 1: You're you're like letting put his penis inside of you?
Speaker 2: Like it's so much of like, uh, well did you
Speaker 2: ask him? Like I know, simple, So it's fine. So
Speaker 2: I just wanted to know how she felt because one
Speaker 2: couple does seem like really into each other and it's real.
Speaker 3: So I was like do you believe in it?
Speaker 2: And season one had this like, you know, great story
Speaker 2: and they're still together, but she's like, no, it's insane,
Speaker 2: and she's like, it's great TV.
Speaker 3: But it is.
Speaker 1: Aren't two of them still together? Aren't Barnett and the
Speaker 1: Crazy Girls still together from the first season?
Speaker 3: They are?
Speaker 2: But I don't believe. I don't believe in healthy, good relationship. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: people could be together for thirty forty years, it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that's admirable, Like, yeah, life isn't great. It's also
Speaker 2: like you could be miserable for fifty years. So I
Speaker 2: just think like Lauren and Cameron, Cameron were the ones
Speaker 2: that like actually seemed like healthy. I think that man
Speaker 2: had to sell his house to pay that lunatic's debt off.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 2: He couldn't like look at another girl, so they could
Speaker 2: be together. But I don't know if that's the success story.
Speaker 2: I'm sure, but I.
Speaker 1: Just mean like they like they also could have broken up.
Speaker 1: I don't really feel like the spotlights on them anymore.
Speaker 1: And they're still together, so but I don't know. Like,
Speaker 1: but I didn't watch the last season either, but then
Speaker 1: people just oh, I.
Speaker 2: Read every BuzzFeed. I read every article I could find.
Speaker 2: I just wasn't interested because it looked like people that
Speaker 2: just wanted to be on TV. And now there's spinoffs
Speaker 2: and there's more reality because now they have like Temptation Island,
Speaker 2: not Temptation Island, Bachelor in Paradise. Netflix has a version
Speaker 2: of it now, oh right, where people from the Netflix
Speaker 2: shows I think Perfect Match or something go on it.
Speaker 2: So now it is people that just want to be
Speaker 2: reality TV show stars.
Speaker 3: And last season just that's the vibe I got.
Speaker 2: I didn't watch it, so who knows, but this one
Speaker 2: it's probably people that just want to be famous as well.
Speaker 2: But it does something in It did draw me in
Speaker 2: in a very intense way. But there is also an
Speaker 2: evil woman on it that there's two very evil Casey's laughing.
Speaker 3: Are you watching it? Yeah, he's been nodding at you
Speaker 3: the whole time.
Speaker 2: Irena is evil and she's a you know, she's called
Speaker 2: turally one of mine, so I am obviously taking it personal.
Speaker 2: I claim her, so I take it personal. They're also young,
Speaker 2: they're like a decade younger than me, so it's like
Speaker 2: wild to watch as well. But there's meme girls and
Speaker 2: there's lies, and there's men making the wrong decisions and
Speaker 2: like there's just silliness. But then there's like really sweet couples.
Speaker 2: But then there's like there's just wild behaviors or it's
Speaker 2: like someone being like I don't allow dishes in the sink,
Speaker 2: and it's like get get get a life, get a life.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy when like a life. What was the
Speaker 1: first one? Like there was that couple they were really
Speaker 1: boring and like you could just tell she got the
Speaker 1: ick and was just like, nah, like this isn't gonna
Speaker 1: work for me, Like the boring one, like not the blonde,
Speaker 1: crazy one who fed wine to her dog, but the
Speaker 1: other couple, like and it's just like yeah, you can't
Speaker 1: even explain that. It's like I don't know, I just
Speaker 1: kind of got oh here.
Speaker 2: So so this guy there was like a great girl
Speaker 2: and an evil girl, and the great girl is telling
Speaker 2: him like the fact that you even like this evil
Speaker 2: girl is like worrisome to me that you don't see
Speaker 2: that she's evil, Like right, she's pulling evil shit. And
Speaker 2: he goes what and picks the evil girl. She treats
Speaker 2: him like shit in the best way. She she meets
Speaker 2: him won't let him touch her, won't let him hold
Speaker 2: her hand, pillows in between them in bed. She sees
Speaker 2: him and goes, you look like a cartoon character? Can
Speaker 2: you just blink?
Speaker 3: Like you?
Speaker 2: Just like she hates him but wants to be on TV,
Speaker 2: so she won't just like say it. But he's just
Speaker 2: so desperate, so like, I don't know, Wow.
Speaker 3: It's wild.
Speaker 2: But like at one point, this evil girl, like the
Speaker 2: nice girl's making this guy cupcakes for his birthday and
Speaker 2: she forgot his birthday and goes, hey, can you just
Speaker 2: give me one of the cupcake or give me a candle?
Speaker 2: Like it's just or one girl is crying because she's
Speaker 2: just going through her own shit where she obviously is
Speaker 2: like attracted to toxic men, but this really nice guy
Speaker 2: likes her and she's just struggling, and so she's crying
Speaker 2: and the evil girl's laughing, like laughing at her. Jesus, well,
Speaker 2: she's trying to be a reality villain. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't think she's trying, babe. I think she's I think.
Speaker 3: That's just her.
Speaker 2: No, she tell she tells the guy. There's a clip
Speaker 2: of her going, I'm not a nice person. I wish
Speaker 2: I was, but I'm not like verbatim, and he goes,
Speaker 2: you are nice, I know it, And then the girl
Speaker 2: Bliss is like, I'm telling you she's evil.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really funny. Fuck that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Wait, Casey, say something, for the love of God, tell
Speaker 2: the viewers.
Speaker 4: Well, I Arena is great. And I loved when she
Speaker 4: went to her best friend and asked her if her
Speaker 4: best friend's fiance is like, would want to fuck Arena?
Speaker 4: That was wild? Yeah, And her best friend's like what,
Speaker 4: And she's like does he talk about me? Or like
Speaker 4: does he have any interest in me?
Speaker 3: She's crazy. I forgot about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's trying to fuck her best friends fiance.
Speaker 1: I gotta get into this. I gotta get into But
Speaker 1: you know, I'm behind on Girls Trip. I gotta watch
Speaker 1: all this shit. There's too much.
Speaker 3: Girls Trip's boring.
Speaker 1: I just missed a week of TV being with my
Speaker 1: child and trying to go out at night and have
Speaker 1: and have dinners and hang out. But I was glad
Speaker 1: we got to hang out in New York. We had
Speaker 1: a big dinner with a bunch of fun people and
Speaker 1: that was fun. But then, you know, I always have
Speaker 1: to leave to relive a babysitter and it feels bad,
Speaker 1: but we had fun. What's well when this episode comes out,
Speaker 1: will just be back from moontower.
Speaker 2: We am in San Francisco twenty six to twenty ninth
Speaker 2: of April.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, San Francisco. At the at the punchline. At
Speaker 1: the punchline. Go see Lisa at the punchline. You guys,
Speaker 1: San Francisco, this is on you. We are working on
Speaker 1: future tour dates. Don't give up on us. We will
Speaker 1: be back out there on the road very soon. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, check out our merch guys, if you go
Speaker 1: to That's Messed Up live dot com, or you go
Speaker 1: to our link in our bio on our Instagram. We
Speaker 1: got a merch store.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 1: We got a beanie we got I will tell you.
Speaker 1: I love the That's Messed Up fanny pack. I've been
Speaker 1: using it NonStop and the purple sweatshirt. And guys, come
Speaker 1: follow us on TikTok. We are not called That's Messed
Speaker 1: Up on TikTok because that leads you to a really
Speaker 1: fucked up search results page. We are an SVU podcast
Speaker 1: or an svpod. I think we're an sv podcast on TikTok.
Speaker 1: So go find us and help us grow our tiki
Speaker 1: talkie and then don't go anywhere because we've got a
Speaker 1: great episode coming up for you.
Speaker 2: We are doing the episode Branded, Season twelve, episode six,
Speaker 2: and yeah, the word branded SVU.
Speaker 3: You know, our brands go to dark places.
Speaker 2: We don't know what's gonna happen here. Also, you know
Speaker 2: who loves to get branded Christians where tattoo is not enough.
Speaker 3: They loved a brand across on them.
Speaker 1: And of course famously Nextian, you know, Vagina brandings. We've
Speaker 1: talked about branding on this podcast before.
Speaker 3: I forgot.
Speaker 2: I've forgot about the sex called the volleyball sex cult,
Speaker 2: the Chinle.
Speaker 1: Volleyball sex cult, the Chillen youth Van you thought it
Speaker 1: was a get gateway to enlightenment and changing your life,
Speaker 1: but it was a volleyball sex cult the whole time.
Speaker 3: These poor girls.
Speaker 2: So we open up on a hot mom and she's
Speaker 2: in a Periwinkle matching tank cardigan set. And Periwinkle had
Speaker 2: a real hold on my generation prom dress, I would say,
Speaker 2: and Kara as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Harry Winkle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's as strong of a color
Speaker 2: for the gen Z youth.
Speaker 3: No, I don't see it as much anyways.
Speaker 2: So this hot mom, she's walking out of this elevator angrily,
Speaker 2: and she's reminding her children it's family night, and it's like, lady,
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like any of you want to do it.
Speaker 2: And the tween daughter she doesn't want to watch that
Speaker 2: dumb show where celebrities do the tango. And I feel
Speaker 2: like NBC is shading ABC here. Yes, and hot mom
Speaker 2: says dad wants to play a board game and Nintendo's
Speaker 2: son is like, ugh, not again, and the kids are like,
Speaker 2: we have homework and run off. Not a good sign
Speaker 2: for the unity of a family if your kids would
Speaker 2: rather do schoolwork than hang out with you. Yeah, she's
Speaker 2: using reusable shopping bags, which I'm into, and I did
Speaker 2: not really, I wouldn't have anticipated that from a hot mom.
Speaker 2: So she puts the keys down and then, oh my god,
Speaker 2: she notices something's off in the house. Her husband is pantsless,
Speaker 2: he's tied up on the floor. He asks for her
Speaker 2: to call the authorities. Family game night is canceled. Done done,
Speaker 2: So I'm very canceled. That's the game, that's the fun game.
Speaker 2: He goes, Let's solve the crime. Yeah, murder mystery. And
Speaker 2: it's a murder mystery. Daddy's pantsless, who did this? Foreign
Speaker 2: objects in his anus? Tell it like, start gathering clues, kids, Yeah,
Speaker 2: grab the lube, boys, ice teas on the scene with
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler and a bunch of uniformed officers. Bill
Speaker 2: Dixon is his name. Uh, he's tied up, stripped. He
Speaker 2: runs a leather goods company. He remembers nothing except for
Speaker 2: setting up a game for family night. And there's no
Speaker 2: sign of forced entry. The doorman saw nobody come or go.
Speaker 2: That was not a regular. The cameras are only in
Speaker 2: the elevator. Nine people went up between six and eight pm.
Speaker 2: Nobody got off on the twelfth floor. Ben's like, okay,
Speaker 2: so Spider Man and they love fucking referring to Spider Man.
Speaker 2: You know what's the other episode, Sperm in the Mouth?
Speaker 2: We do manipulated, manipulated always Spider Man. Finn is like,
Speaker 2: I'd say more like Casper the Unfriendly Ghost.
Speaker 3: And he's.
Speaker 2: And he's in a stretcher with his wife standing behind him,
Speaker 2: saying what went down. One moment he was setting up
Speaker 2: game night, waiting for his family to come home. Next
Speaker 2: he's tied up on the floor. She does the classic
Speaker 2: why are you here getting information? And now it out
Speaker 2: there searching for the madmen. So Benson for the advertising man.
Speaker 1: Out there like people that don't know how police work works,
Speaker 1: They're like, just start wandering the streets find this person.
Speaker 2: Like it's like what it's like, we need to get
Speaker 2: some information, a dust, a fingerprint, like yeah, ladies. So
Speaker 2: Benson's like, Finn, can you take her out of here please?
Speaker 2: So Benson's like, okay, tell us the real story. He's offended.
Speaker 2: He's like, you think I'm hiding something there, like you're
Speaker 2: you're holding you're covering your chest, sir. And now I
Speaker 2: notice he's holding his button down shirt closed. And then
Speaker 2: I notice fully it's covered in blood and he's holding
Speaker 2: it with his closed fists. So it's like the fact
Speaker 2: that I didn't notice he's holding his shirt closed, I
Speaker 2: feel like such a naive viewer. And the Stabler's like,
Speaker 2: you don't mind if we take a peek. Finally he
Speaker 2: opens his bloody ass shirt and he's branded and the
Speaker 2: wound spells out ruiner in all caps. He passes out
Speaker 2: from the blood. The pulse is low. We got to
Speaker 2: get him to the hospital. Chat time is done well.
Speaker 1: So it's actually like it's actually kind of I don't
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, branding is like you
Speaker 1: do it with heat. This is like this is it's
Speaker 1: cut into him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We find out later it's a wire hangar and it's
Speaker 2: heated with a blowtorch Ah.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it is Yes, you're right, so that is
Speaker 1: a brand. It looks like it's like fully cut with
Speaker 1: a knife. Geez, that's awful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure I mentioned this on the podcast before,
Speaker 2: but it reminds me of the Marilyn Manson book where
Speaker 2: girls there's like a famous photo or like these girls
Speaker 2: cut Marilyn Manson into their upper chest and it's like bloody.
Speaker 3: And it says Marilyn Manson on their like titties es. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyways, so we're at the hospital now after the credits,
Speaker 2: and the doctor's explaining that he slept pretty good last
Speaker 2: night even with all of his injuries and only second
Speaker 2: degree burns, which the doctor actually calls lucky. The guy
Speaker 2: was knocked out cold with ketamine, which you know people
Speaker 2: love doing right now, people love.
Speaker 3: To party with ketamine, but not this guy.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's a dosage issue because yeah, so
Speaker 2: there was a puncture wound at the base of his neck.
Speaker 2: He was drugged from behind and violated in his behind
Speaker 2: some weird items three dice and a little timer this way.
Speaker 1: This reminded me though, because she goes, you'll never you
Speaker 1: wouldn't believe the stuff people say they slipped and fell on.
Speaker 1: And my mother in law was an eer nurse and
Speaker 1: she told me that in one of our first conversations ever.
Speaker 1: She was like, you don't even believe the stuff people
Speaker 1: say that they just slipped and fell on. She's like,
Speaker 1: I've found a light bulb up there, like she's found like,
Speaker 1: but people will always say I just slipped and fell
Speaker 1: naked and something went up my buttthole, which is.
Speaker 2: Like pretty closed. You really have to open it up, yeah.
Speaker 1: Something you're using lube to get those kind of things.
Speaker 1: She was like, you batteries, Like you wouldn't believe the
Speaker 1: stuff we find up in people's antal cavities.
Speaker 2: I just wonder do people think they're the only ones
Speaker 2: shoving shit up there? They're just some I mean, of
Speaker 2: course they're embarrassed. I'm like, do you think people are embarrassed?
Speaker 2: And it's like yeah, they're embarrassed they put the battery
Speaker 2: up there, But I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, they're embarrassed, and I guess like when you
Speaker 1: reach like a certain level of embarrassment, you just like
Speaker 1: shut off the ability to have like a lot. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's no logic that could like say how that really
Speaker 1: got up there?
Speaker 3: So you're just like I fell.
Speaker 2: Because you could just say it was a dare. You
Speaker 2: could be like I was dared. I lost the bet,
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't have to be sexual. Yeah, people truly
Speaker 2: like their shame of being gay like ruins their life,
Speaker 2: like like their brain.
Speaker 3: Fully, Like you could just be like I lost the bet.
Speaker 2: I was playing poker and all my guy friends decided
Speaker 2: that they were gonna they were gonna hold me down
Speaker 2: and put the battery in my butt.
Speaker 1: I think maybe people didn't think about that because.
Speaker 2: They're just so scared of being gay that they forget
Speaker 2: that they could lie about something else, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, just lie more logically, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh god, it fell.
Speaker 2: You could just be like, you know what, I just
Speaker 2: thought it would be a fun goof for my wife
Speaker 2: to find a battery in my butt.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, it's just like so funny.
Speaker 1: I guess not everyone's as gift as an improviser as you, Lisa.
Speaker 2: And I'm not even that good a liar, like I
Speaker 2: do kind of freeze it look but like but I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know what I would do if I put
Speaker 2: stuff in my butt. That's just not really a thing.
Speaker 3: And then you had to go to the hospital and
Speaker 3: explain it.
Speaker 2: I just remember once in high school we had to
Speaker 2: take this guy to the hospital, but he just broke
Speaker 2: he just hurt his dick, fucking our friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've told the story about how my friend, my
Speaker 1: friend broke his dick.
Speaker 2: So the victims in the hospital outfit and he's like, listen,
Speaker 2: I didn't say anything because I'm embarrassed, which is fair
Speaker 2: and understandable, and he says it doesn't make sense. But
Speaker 2: Sailor's like, come on, you have no clue why someone
Speaker 2: would brand you ruin her, and you gotta admit it's
Speaker 2: a strange word. And he's like, what do you want
Speaker 2: me to say? You think I'm lying? And Stabler's like, yeah, no, listen,
Speaker 2: no evidence that anybody forced their way inside the apartment,
Speaker 2: so that means you let them in, or someone had
Speaker 2: a key, like, are you having an affair? Bill? And
Speaker 2: the blonde is out with Benson being like, we have
Speaker 2: a great relationship.
Speaker 3: He wouldn't he wouldn't cheat on me. The sex is fantastic.
Speaker 2: Benson asked if anyone would want to hurt him or
Speaker 2: like arrival.
Speaker 3: She can't think of anybody.
Speaker 2: So now we're back to Stabler and Bill Dixon, and
Speaker 2: Bill is pissed and he feels like he's being interrogated,
Speaker 2: like he's the purp, and he's like, listen, there is
Speaker 2: some homosexual nutcase on the loose. And Stabler's like, what
Speaker 2: makes you think he's a homosexual? And Bill's like, he
Speaker 2: shoved game pieces up my ass and quickly Stabler's like,
Speaker 2: well he drugs you. And Bill goes yeah, and they're
Speaker 2: like well and he branded your chest and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not the criminal heels and Stabler's like, yes, I
Speaker 2: understand that, but it's a very specific, twisted thing, like
Speaker 2: you gotta help me out, dude, and he's like, did
Speaker 2: you piss someone off? And he thinks, thinks and goes,
Speaker 2: you know what. Jonas Rothenberg, the president of the Crooked
Speaker 2: Green Pond Foundation, he tried to stop Bill from making
Speaker 2: snake skin boots and the wife, you know, they do
Speaker 2: the flip and flop where they go from each conversation
Speaker 2: to you know, finish each other's sentences. And so the
Speaker 2: wife continues to Marie and she calls him an envinoh nazi,
Speaker 2: enviro nazi, whatever an environmentalist in a Nazi does get
Speaker 2: combined into a lovely little word, and you know, pay
Speaker 2: for destroying the environment and ruined everything.
Speaker 3: That he touched.
Speaker 2: She basically says that this guy said that bill you
Speaker 2: know it like, is destroying the environment and ruins everything
Speaker 2: that he touches. And one time he attached a threatening
Speaker 2: letter to the door after sneaking into their building. So
Speaker 2: obviously let's go investigate this red herring. So they go
Speaker 2: to the the Bronx and the guy is knee deep
Speaker 2: in a pond with those like, you know boot pants
Speaker 2: that pond pond people.
Speaker 3: Wear waiters, waiters, waiters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he snuck him so while the doorman was sleeping,
Speaker 2: this like environ environ nazi and used the backstairs and
Speaker 2: then he and then this guy goes and I would
Speaker 2: do it again because he didn't have the proper permits
Speaker 2: to trap wildlife. But It's like this guy doesn't believe
Speaker 2: probably any you know, permits. He likes s nature. Oh
Speaker 2: that's that's just reminded me about my time fishing in Finland.
Speaker 3: I love it. Okay.
Speaker 2: So when the letter didn't work, he took him to
Speaker 2: court and he's pissed. What people do to animals? They
Speaker 2: make raincoats out of eels. Ew, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: That doesn't even sound cool, sexy sheet comfortable, like, I
Speaker 2: don't get that. And then bat testicle ear rings again?
Speaker 2: What what Casey? Start researching? Is this real eel raincoats?
Speaker 2: Bat testicle ear rings? Please investigate? While I keep.
Speaker 3: Talking, yeah, find that Etsy store, Casey, and he goes,
Speaker 3: I want to trap Bill in a trap. Beep beep.
Speaker 2: Stabler gets a call. He answers it while Benson keeps talking.
Speaker 2: You know about the tree huggers whereabouts? And this guy,
Speaker 2: if you're wondering, he's the high maintenance actor Ben Sinclair.
Speaker 2: I thought, so yeah, yeah, and he looks like a
Speaker 2: baby John Malkovich. If you know, my husband just went
Speaker 2: to dinner with him a week ago. With Ben's Sinclair,
Speaker 2: not John Malcolmvich. Correct, with Ben Sinclair. No, I was
Speaker 2: about to get in a really big fight with you
Speaker 2: and your family.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that would be the only thing I
Speaker 1: talked about for I mean, I would I would like
Speaker 1: hit your you.
Speaker 2: In the neck if I'd be so pissed if I
Speaker 2: was not told about a John Malcovitch dinner. So, and
Speaker 2: the night before while the attack was happening, he was
Speaker 2: at a lecture on the use of algae as a
Speaker 2: source of energy. Stabler comes back and party, first time party.
Speaker 2: He he goes back in the water.
Speaker 3: Sabler said, I love drug race. Okay.
Speaker 2: So Stabler comes back, thanks him for his time, and
Speaker 2: so the door goes back in the water and Stabler
Speaker 2: tells Benson. Finn says, we know how the attacker got
Speaker 2: in the building maybe, And what we see is there's
Speaker 2: a vacuum box on a video and it's like really
Speaker 2: tacky box. Okay, Casey, we got we got scoop Kara,
Speaker 2: what is it you want to read?
Speaker 1: You cannot find anything on bat testical earrings or eel raincoats.
Speaker 1: So this guy, I think, like the point is this
Speaker 1: guy's being a little bit paranoid, like of course, snake
Speaker 1: skin boots, like fox fur coats.
Speaker 3: I'm sure that stuff's happening.
Speaker 1: But like I think this guy's going like a little
Speaker 1: bit crazy. Yeah. Like also, maybe they do this in
Speaker 1: foreign countries and we don't have the right Google search
Speaker 1: terms because it's in different languages or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Google. Google has the Come on, Google knows everything.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they do it in like, if
Speaker 1: they do it in like China and we don't have
Speaker 1: Chinese character, we're not looking it up in Chinese characters
Speaker 1: might not uh, they might not be written.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Kara, please take that.
Speaker 1: You think that it's just impossible it exists if it's
Speaker 1: not on Google.
Speaker 2: Okay, but if I wrote people who eat crickets, it
Speaker 2: doesn't like in America, we don't eat crickets, but it
Speaker 2: would say what countries people eat crickets in.
Speaker 3: That's different.
Speaker 1: That's more cow is that because that's more common. This
Speaker 1: is very very okay, but Anthony very specific a niche No, okay,
Speaker 1: then it's just a very creative as telling me.
Speaker 2: You're telling me Google doesn't tell us things that happen
Speaker 2: in different countries that don't happen here.
Speaker 3: It's not what I'm telling you. I'm saying that that's
Speaker 3: exactly what different. No, it's not.
Speaker 1: I'm saying if if it's in a different language with
Speaker 1: different characters, and we're not using the right search terms,
Speaker 1: it might not come up. If something only happens in
Speaker 1: France and you don't search for the French word for bat,
Speaker 1: then you might not there might not be an article
Speaker 1: about it written in English.
Speaker 2: That's all I'm saying. Okay, So we're back to this
Speaker 2: vacuum box. Who even vacuums anymore? Okay? So we so
Speaker 2: we see this box.
Speaker 1: Is there a new technology where you don't have to
Speaker 1: vacuum anymore?
Speaker 2: It's red, yellow, orange, okay, Tina Berner.
Speaker 3: So then the vacuum is called vacattack.
Speaker 2: And the super said the box was delivered two hours
Speaker 2: before the attack, and it was sent to the super
Speaker 2: and he left it in the basement and when he
Speaker 2: went back to get it in the morning, boom, it
Speaker 2: was ripped open and empty. So the purp had himself
Speaker 2: delivered last night, which is a good way to avoid
Speaker 2: cameras and dormant.
Speaker 3: So they go over to.
Speaker 2: The local freight company that handle the delivery. They go
Speaker 2: to talk to the employee and get all the scoop.
Speaker 2: No warrants are asked, She's down to give all the scoops.
Speaker 2: She doesn't give a fuck. So one label is for
Speaker 2: the real vacuum, and then there is a duplicate label
Speaker 2: and it's made from a different IP address, and then
Speaker 2: it cuts straight to Reuben Morales, friend of the pod,
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh my god, this hacker is genius, genius,
Speaker 2: black hat level, holy shit high tech breach braking uses
Speaker 2: a lot of you know, high tech words.
Speaker 3: They can't track at all.
Speaker 2: Finn comes in and debunks the theory that it can
Speaker 2: be because he can't be at two places at once.
Speaker 2: He was at this Algae event. Dixon is not having
Speaker 2: an affair. It's very not likely. And also outside of
Speaker 2: the tree hugging community, he's very well liked. But Benson
Speaker 2: is like, you don't get branded ruiner for no reason,
Speaker 2: so there's got to be something else. Let's take another
Speaker 2: run at Dixon. Craigan busts in and says, well, he
Speaker 2: needs to get in line. We got another victim, so
Speaker 2: they rushed to the apartment of Victor Ramos on one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixteenth Street. He's boud, he was bound and
Speaker 2: trust I never ever heard that word trust.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, trust that. What does that mean? Tiede tied? Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And but I think trus trust.
Speaker 2: Is when you're tied like back, okay, like okay, like
Speaker 2: a little pig.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so Upper West Side guy, no witnesses and his chest,
Speaker 2: says Trader. And he's on a stretcher. Intense, blue eyes,
Speaker 2: very intense. And he's at the precinct. Did we ever
Speaker 2: talk about aout the Hugh Grant Ashley Graham interview or No.
Speaker 1: We did, but I don't remember if it was here
Speaker 1: or somewhere else we did.
Speaker 2: I just think of that movie Mickey Blue Eyes when
Speaker 2: I say blue Eyes.
Speaker 3: Oh you don't at all. No, you don't think of
Speaker 3: that cover. Nope.
Speaker 2: So whatever, But he's at you know, he's at the precinct,
Speaker 2: this blue eye guy, and he's more alert than the
Speaker 2: previous dude. He's ready to talk. He was cooking dinner
Speaker 2: for his daughters. They were coming home from soccer practice
Speaker 2: in a half an hour, and he felt a sharp
Speaker 2: pain in his neck as well.
Speaker 3: And then he woke up.
Speaker 2: His hands and feet were tied, and his chest burned
Speaker 2: with the word Trader.
Speaker 3: I wonder how he called the cops. Surf.
Speaker 2: His daughters found him and called the cops, like, I
Speaker 2: wonder what happened. So Stabler is like, so, any idea
Speaker 2: about like what happened? And he goes, No, I've never
Speaker 2: betrayed anyone. I'm a good man, and this is a
Speaker 2: red flag for me. This is kind of like when
Speaker 2: people say I've never lied in my life, and it's like, really,
Speaker 2: come on, We've all betrayed and lied, and these the
Speaker 2: sayings of ultimatums are clear red flags that you are
Speaker 2: a liar and be tire like sorry, So he goes,
Speaker 2: why would I use a candle from my kitchen? And
Speaker 2: then he can't finish his sentence, and Stabler finishes it
Speaker 2: for him and goes and sexually assault you with it.
Speaker 2: So up his butt is a candle? What's up your button?
Speaker 2: Around the corner? Your own candle? Go, We're gonna find out,
Speaker 2: but we're gonna start with work. Do you have any
Speaker 2: enemies from work? He's a tax accountant and he doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like he's pissed anyone off, and he has no
Speaker 2: enemies outside of work. This would be the opposite of me.
Speaker 2: They'd be like, so, who would want to do this
Speaker 2: to you? And I'd be like, all right, well, get
Speaker 2: your pen and paper out, get a scenographer in the room,
Speaker 2: get a couple of scenographers. Someone's wrists might get tired,
Speaker 2: and it would be like an eight month investigation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of alibis.
Speaker 1: Well, you have enemies, but I don't know how many
Speaker 1: people would throw you and stick something up your booty.
Speaker 2: No, they'd all be on the road. It would be
Speaker 2: like so many schedules.
Speaker 3: It would be so hard.
Speaker 1: They'd be like, well, we got this one guy, but
Speaker 1: we can't talk to him until he's done doing Zany's Nashville.
Speaker 2: They're all podcasting and they're all selling out theaters, so
Speaker 2: they would be too busy to you know, stick my objects.
Speaker 3: Oh my, but they would find enough objects in my
Speaker 3: apartment to do it. If they did, that's part of
Speaker 3: the decluttering.
Speaker 1: You need to you're gonna fall and something's gonna slip
Speaker 1: up there, Lisa.
Speaker 2: It would just be like a goofy movie toy they found.
Speaker 2: They'd be like, any significance to this goofy movie object.
Speaker 2: So he's, uh, He's like, I'm just trying to he
Speaker 2: seems stressed whatever, And Sailor's like, listen, I'm just trying
Speaker 2: to find a possible motive.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't know my wife died of a
Speaker 3: brain or two years ago.
Speaker 2: I'm dating a woman from church and my daughters will
Speaker 2: go to Saint Gerald's. I've never betrayed anyone, and I
Speaker 2: don't know what his wife dying has anything to do
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 3: Like you know new Gingrich has a wife that died.
Speaker 2: We don't like him. I don't get that. I don't
Speaker 2: get this little good boy act he's doing. Stabler slides
Speaker 2: a photo of Bill Dixon and he goes, you know
Speaker 2: this guy. He goes, no should I and b d
Speaker 2: Wong is spying and he goes his anguish seems real,
Speaker 2: and Stabler and Benson are like okay, and the story
Speaker 2: and Bedie Wong goes, I'm not a lie detector. I'm
Speaker 2: a man, you know, but is there a connection? And
Speaker 2: he goes, listen, you gotta find it, like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what to tell you. And they're like, well, the'll
Speaker 2: purt broke into their homes, drug them with kenna, I mean,
Speaker 2: penetrated them with foreign objects and targeted them. Huang's like, okay,
Speaker 2: but you're assuming the attacker isn't delusional. Something could have
Speaker 2: set this guy off. Stabler's like branding seems like revenge,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, I just really don't buy that this
Speaker 2: is a coincidence. Huang's like, Okay, if they did something
Speaker 2: bad together, they're not going to cop to it, but
Speaker 2: at some point they might want to reach out to
Speaker 2: one another. And they're like, oh my god, you're saying
Speaker 2: we should tail the victims. Then they're like, well, they
Speaker 2: know us, but they don't know Finn, so let's fucking go.
Speaker 2: So rhythmic music plays, and the two men go to
Speaker 2: meet a third man and they're yelling on the street
Speaker 2: as Finn takes photos and says smile dirt bags. And
Speaker 2: they're in front of a place called Gammon Imports, Importing Exporting,
Speaker 2: another Seinfeld reference. And then the third guy of this
Speaker 2: little trio is Alexander Gammon. So they are liars and
Speaker 2: they are betrayers, Like fuck the fuck the ease at
Speaker 2: which people lie. So they're pissed and scare. Benson clocks
Speaker 2: Alexander's two thousand dollars Armani suit like that our girl
Speaker 2: knows not only purses, sunglasses, hat lingerie. Yeah, men's suits
Speaker 2: as well. Honey, she can clock on our money for
Speaker 2: miles away. So they head over to Gammon's place to
Speaker 2: ask why the two men went over there to yell
Speaker 2: at him. He's like, sorry, dudes, I don't know these guys.
Speaker 2: And then they show the receipts and he cops to
Speaker 2: annoying them when he's pushed against a corner. He says
Speaker 2: they were having a business discussion, and he's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well then why would you li for no reason? And
Speaker 2: he's like all secretive and doesn't want to talk about
Speaker 2: business and you know whatever, and then it's like not interesting.
Speaker 2: He goes listen. Bill makes high end belts and I
Speaker 2: give them his Christmas gifts. And Victor does accounting and
Speaker 2: he speaks Spanish, so he works with all my Spanish clients.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, so that's what you're secretive about. These
Speaker 2: are the hush hush fights. You're having your belts guy
Speaker 2: and your accountant and they rushed after questioning to me
Speaker 2: and yell outside your business and you're being secretive.
Speaker 3: Like fuck off.
Speaker 2: We also find out that they've all been working together
Speaker 2: for ten years, and this Gammon guy's getting annoyed is
Speaker 2: like what is this about? And then they tell him
Speaker 2: a lot. They're like, well, both those guys have been
Speaker 2: branded and sodomized. And it's like, are you allowed to like.
Speaker 3: Just disclose what's happened to them? Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love the therapists and doctors up to stay secret,
Speaker 2: but I guess the cops can just tell this guy
Speaker 2: that these other guys have been branded and sodomized.
Speaker 3: And so Gammon's like, what's this got to do with me?
Speaker 2: And so they're like, well, we're trying to find some
Speaker 2: connection between these two guys, and you seem to be it,
Speaker 2: and you can be next, and we wouldn't want to
Speaker 2: have like have this happens to another innocent person. And
Speaker 2: then he takes out a gun and says, if someone
Speaker 2: wants to try it, let's go, and yes, I have
Speaker 2: a permit, so leave. And they leave, but they don't
Speaker 2: buy a word he said. And then holy shit. As
Speaker 2: they walk out of his place, in walk like in
Speaker 2: like past them, walks a delivery person wheeling a vack
Speaker 2: attack box. They look done, yes, chin on the floor,
Speaker 2: They're like whoa. So they have all the cameras set
Speaker 2: up and they're waiting a long as time for someone
Speaker 2: to pop out of this box hours hours, Like passage
Speaker 2: of time is very obvious in this. Uh, these shots
Speaker 2: and the shaking begins of the box after a while.
Speaker 2: This is very like ace Ventura, you know with the
Speaker 2: rhino ace venture too. Yes, my friend and I always
Speaker 2: go sure gets hot in these rhinos when he comes out. Uh.
Speaker 2: And the person scurries out of the box uses the backstairs.
Speaker 2: They're heading into the apartment. Wait, did you get the
Speaker 2: wordle from two nights ago?
Speaker 1: What the fuck that was? It was yesterday and it
Speaker 1: was so hard it was guano. Yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: like from ace Ventura, Like I thought that word was
Speaker 1: in another language.
Speaker 3: But here we go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're heading into the apartment. The detective watch on
Speaker 2: the screen. The attacker enters the apartment, the TV is on.
Speaker 2: It's like a black and white movie. There's like, you know,
Speaker 2: a business style, big leather chair, and then you know,
Speaker 2: the attacker picks up the syringe, ready to attack. He's
Speaker 2: going to the chair and then the chair spins around.
Speaker 2: It's Stabler with a gun going freeze. It's the cops
Speaker 2: and then Benson pops up behind the attacker. They have
Speaker 2: him on both sides and they say drop the syringe,
Speaker 2: but instead he charges Stabler, who stops him. And then
Speaker 2: they get to the person and holy shit, it's actually Camille,
Speaker 2: the girl from the shipping place, and she is under arrest,
Speaker 2: and she is out of breath, she is not happy,
Speaker 2: and she is now in interrogation. Benson is standing behind
Speaker 2: her like you got nothing to say, no denial, no nothing,
Speaker 2: no explanation.
Speaker 3: You do have the right to remain silent. But I
Speaker 3: did some digging.
Speaker 2: Your mom died when you were five, your dad went
Speaker 2: to bellevue for schizophrenia. You've been to six foster families,
Speaker 2: multiple arrests for drug use and delinquency. That's a good
Speaker 2: resume for a life of crime, except for one thing.
Speaker 2: At sixteen, you took a state IQ test and scored
Speaker 2: in the exceptional range. And you are so smart, but
Speaker 2: you hate authority figures. Hmm, So tell me, Camille, who
Speaker 2: are you? And all she says back is I'm nobody?
Speaker 3: Who are you? Are you?
Speaker 2: Nobody too? While crying softly, which is an Emily Dickinson poem.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I thought it was doctor Seuss, So I'm
Speaker 2: glad you did a little research on that.
Speaker 3: Or is that top of the noggin Is that a top?
Speaker 1: No? I knew it was somebody, and so I just
Speaker 1: looked it up. I'm nobody.
Speaker 3: Who are you? Are you nobody too?
Speaker 2: It goes on, but yeah, So they bring the three
Speaker 2: stooges in to meet Camille, not to me, you know,
Speaker 2: to identify her, and she's sitting at the table alone,
Speaker 2: and the three of them look through the two a
Speaker 2: mirror and the Gammon guy's like this, says who you
Speaker 2: ran me out of the apartment for? And that's not
Speaker 2: his accent, but whatever, and he goes he is kind
Speaker 2: of hot, but he is a douche, and so he goes, Yep,
Speaker 2: she was gonna brand you like she branded them. And
Speaker 2: he's like that little thing could not have done that
Speaker 2: to me or to them, Like, no way, and Bill says,
Speaker 2: no way she did it, and Sailor's well, you were unconscious,
Speaker 2: and Bill goes, no way, and Ramo says, anything's possible.
Speaker 2: I suppose, but that girl did not attack me. A
Speaker 2: man did it. And Gammon says, I don't know this girl.
Speaker 2: We've never seen her before, and Saber's like, is that
Speaker 2: the same as when Bill says he's never seen any
Speaker 2: of you, and then we followed him to you and
Speaker 2: he answers, what are you insinuating, Detective I love it?
Speaker 3: And he's like, I'm just reviewing the facts.
Speaker 2: She went after all three of you with the intention
Speaker 2: of branding new and Gammon says she's looney Tunes and
Speaker 2: Bill says that girl is obviously mentally ill, and Stabler's like,
Speaker 2: that's your story. All three of you are sticking with
Speaker 2: and Gammon's like, oh, is that what you do? You
Speaker 2: can't solve the case, so you harass the victims. So
Speaker 2: they leave, as Gammon goes, listen, I'm buying breakfast my
Speaker 2: kind of guy.
Speaker 3: Only at that part. Only at the buying, only that
Speaker 3: part about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Cragan walks right in and asks if they id'd her,
Speaker 2: and they're like no, none of them have any com
Speaker 2: like connection to Camille. For Kragan's like, well, we have
Speaker 2: to charge her.
Speaker 3: We're done. Stabler breathes deep.
Speaker 2: Now Craigan's, Stabler, and Benson are hanging out, and then
Speaker 2: a forgettable woman da walks in and says, ugh, I
Speaker 2: can't prosecute this case, and Craigan introduces her to the squad.
Speaker 2: It's Jillian Hardwick. She says, I don't have enough evidence,
Speaker 2: and Stabler's like, oh, is this your first job or something.
Speaker 2: She's like, no, I was in the Brooklyn Blue Zone
Speaker 2: when you're a da poached me and she smiles. She's
Speaker 2: like a Midwest version of Malan Ackerman. I would say, yeah,
Speaker 2: she's the one in our live shows. I think we
Speaker 2: call her white House black Market, like that's very her vibe,
Speaker 2: Like she's just like sort of a plane Jane's strawberry blonde.
Speaker 3: Like yeah.
Speaker 2: She says she's glad she did because she's a huge
Speaker 2: fan of their unit, and Stabler raises his eyebrows and
Speaker 2: she realizes that came out wrong. But she does have
Speaker 2: a conviction rate of ninety two percent, which sounds fake.
Speaker 3: What.
Speaker 1: She had one of those Etsy T shirts on like
Speaker 1: under her like court clothes, and it's like the Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler like old like T shirt. She's like, I'm
Speaker 1: a huge fan. I love you guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we no one cares about her and they
Speaker 2: do have enough evidence, like they caught her in the box,
Speaker 2: Stabler stopped her.
Speaker 3: She had all the tools, and she's like, well, not exactly.
Speaker 2: Taru did a dump on the GPS on Camille's phone
Speaker 2: and it has her at a midtown Macy's and all
Speaker 2: Harlem target at the exact time of the first two attacks.
Speaker 2: And Stabler is like, she's a good hacker and the
Speaker 2: men can't I d her? And Craigan's like, well, what
Speaker 2: about the alleged attack like Gammin And She's like again,
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to press charges, And Benson is like,
Speaker 2: those men did something to Camille. Huang walks in and says, wow,
Speaker 2: I never thought I would hear you blame the victims,
Speaker 2: and she just is like, I feel like Camille is
Speaker 2: the real victim here. Craigan says, how do we prove it?
Speaker 2: Huang says, maybe we can find out through her method
Speaker 2: of assault? But why now? Like what catalysts happened that
Speaker 2: popped her off? Like you know she's had suppressed anger,
Speaker 2: something brought it to the surface.
Speaker 3: What happens? So they all scattered to get to work.
Speaker 2: They get a warrant to search for space and get
Speaker 2: to the bottom of the case. Benson and Stabler are
Speaker 2: at her apartment. They can't find anything but hacking gear.
Speaker 2: Stabler thinks, like Wan Huang is off the mark right
Speaker 2: When Sabler says that Benson finds old photos in a
Speaker 2: report card and then boom baby summer camp photo, clean
Speaker 2: air Camp.
Speaker 3: Weird camp. Well, it's based off of.
Speaker 1: Fresh Air Fund, which is a real camp and like
Speaker 1: things for kids that are like in the foster care
Speaker 1: system or like need camp. My friend did that for
Speaker 1: her wedding instead of gifts, she had everybody give money
Speaker 1: to the Fresh Air Fund.
Speaker 2: And why can't it be like a more fun name,
Speaker 2: like sports and games, you know, like what, because I.
Speaker 1: Think it's like mostly getting kids out of cities into
Speaker 1: like the country where they can like have like clean
Speaker 1: it more fresh air.
Speaker 3: Yeah, got it.
Speaker 2: So a female camper's face has been erased and at
Speaker 2: the top guests who's there? Alexander Gammon? He is a
Speaker 2: fuck counselor. So we found the connection these fucking liars.
Speaker 2: Everyone's a goddamn liar. So we go to camp. They
Speaker 2: talked to an employee who remembers Gammon. He worked there
Speaker 2: for one summer in nineteen eighty six and he sucked.
Speaker 2: His rich daddy got the camp owner to get him
Speaker 2: a job, and he was a jerk. Stabler shows her
Speaker 2: photos of Dixon and Ramos and asks if they were
Speaker 2: friendly with him, and she goes, oh, yeah, Bill was
Speaker 2: a lifeguard and Victor worked in the kitchen, and she
Speaker 2: remembers Camille. She was a very talented girl, but she
Speaker 2: came from really abusive foster homes. Stabler's like, is there
Speaker 2: any evidence that Camille was molested or assaulted at camp?
Speaker 3: And the employee gets pissed, like.
Speaker 2: Nothing ever happens at camp like this blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, Chilla out, something did happen, So
Speaker 2: why don't you think a little harder? And she thinks
Speaker 2: and she's like, actually, I remember something. So after the
Speaker 2: fourth of July, there were after the fireworks, she walked
Speaker 2: down to the docks and found Camille and she was
Speaker 2: dazed and out of it, and she asked what's wrong?
Speaker 3: And all Camille said was I'm nobody? Who are you?
Speaker 3: Are you nobody? Too?
Speaker 2: Music plays Ben's knots. So now we're in jail with Camille.
Speaker 2: As Benson tries to reach her, she says, girl, you
Speaker 2: are not nobody. Camille gives her a dirty look like
Speaker 2: please don't try me. Her dark makeup is smeared underneath
Speaker 2: her eyes, and Benson's like, you were fourteen we know
Speaker 2: about the Clean Air Camp Fund. Something terrible happened, and
Speaker 2: whatever that was, you've been holding it in all these years,
Speaker 2: and you need to talk about it now. She says,
Speaker 2: I don't want to. Benson says, you've been through terrible
Speaker 2: pain and I'm here to listen. Benson gets up and
Speaker 2: moves to sit closer to her. Her gold necklaces move
Speaker 2: in a very beautiful way during this seat change, and
Speaker 2: she's like, I'm asking you to tell me, Please tell me.
Speaker 2: Camille is uncomfortable and sniffles and then starts. It was
Speaker 2: fourth of July. Fireworks happened. She was walking back to
Speaker 2: her bunk. Alexandra said a bunch of people were going
Speaker 2: into the woods to drink and play games. Victor and
Speaker 2: Bill were there too, and they were already drunk. After
Speaker 2: they led her into the woods, she asked where everybody was,
Speaker 2: and they laughed and said it was a private party.
Speaker 2: She is struggling to tell the story and begins to
Speaker 2: fully sob Benson says, it's okay. Alexander and Bill held
Speaker 2: her and then Victor uh tried to get them to stop,
Speaker 2: but Alexander ripped off her shorts and then raped her
Speaker 2: and then billed it as well, and then she was
Speaker 2: bleeding and Victor didn't want to, but Alexander pushed him
Speaker 2: into it and called him a punk and made him
Speaker 2: do it. And then Alexander said if she told anybody,
Speaker 2: he would deny it, and he said, who would believe
Speaker 2: the word of a little nobody anyway. Benson sighs with sadness.
Speaker 2: She says, yeah, I branded them so they'll never forget
Speaker 2: what they did to me. And I wish that i'd
Speaker 2: branded Alexander. I would have burnt hell on his chest,
Speaker 2: because that's where I was going to send him. Benson says, Camille,
Speaker 2: why would you wait fourteen years after you were raped?
Speaker 2: She looks down. She's been looking down a lot. She
Speaker 2: you know, she's tough, but this is all hard for her.
Speaker 2: And she explains a few weeks ago, she was walking
Speaker 2: down Central Park South and her to laugh and it
Speaker 2: sounded exactly like the way she used to laugh, and
Speaker 2: she knew that it was her.
Speaker 3: She could feel it.
Speaker 2: And Benson asks who, and she cries, and she goes
Speaker 2: my daughter, and she cried so hard, and Benson whispers.
Speaker 3: The rape got you pregnant.
Speaker 2: I couldn't bear to keep her knowing one of them
Speaker 2: was the father, and I gave my baby up for
Speaker 2: adoption the day after she was born. And then it's
Speaker 2: very deep crying and Benson takes us personally because of
Speaker 2: her own backstory.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: This actress, by the way, is Bess Rouse. Incredible, crushing it,
Speaker 2: very good acting, tears, the pacing, the emotions, all of it.
Speaker 2: And she's in the new Nicholas Cage vampire movie that
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Renfield, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So you know we're gonna keep peeling back the layers
Speaker 2: of this. So we're in the squad room, Benson is
Speaker 2: filling everyone in and the hospital confirms that Camille gave
Speaker 2: birth February nineteen ninety seven. And the new DA is
Speaker 2: a fucking bitch. She went from a nobody to a
Speaker 2: fucking bitch. She goes, this seems like a stretch. You
Speaker 2: hear a laugh, and it's your daughter that you gave
Speaker 2: up for adoption, and Benson goes in a very serious tone,
Speaker 2: a mother knows her child, and Sadler's like, one of
Speaker 2: these pricks is the father, and Da Robbery Blond is like, okay,
Speaker 2: well if Camille is telling the truth, and Benson goes,
Speaker 2: that's easy to prove. We find the girl, we take
Speaker 2: the DNA and we match it to the creeps, and
Speaker 2: the DA is like, okay, the files are sealed, so
Speaker 2: we're done, and the statue of limitations has expired. Sailor says, fine,
Speaker 2: let's get them on obstruction, like they lied about knowing her,
Speaker 2: and she's like, any half assed attorney would get them off,
Speaker 2: and Benson yells they're rapists, and she goes, well, my
Speaker 2: jury's not going to hear any of that, and she's
Speaker 2: like proud of it. This isn't even bothering her. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like she doesn't want to try to help it at all.
Speaker 2: And so she's prosecuting Camille and she's acting like she
Speaker 2: has no choice, and Benson's like, she was gang raped.
Speaker 2: And then the DA is like, okay, well she sodomized
Speaker 2: two men and branded them with coat hangers. And Benson's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're trying to keep your percentage up. That's important to you. Huh.
Speaker 2: She snaps back, you did your job and now it's
Speaker 2: time to do mine, no matter how.
Speaker 3: Much it hurts.
Speaker 2: So now we're in Supreme Court and we're watching the
Speaker 2: video of the aggressive confession and they cut it off
Speaker 2: right before she talks about the rape, and Benson's on
Speaker 2: this Dan and won't let it go. And she's like,
Speaker 2: you didn't play like the whole confession, and the DA
Speaker 2: cries to the judge, and the judge reminds her, like
Speaker 2: reminds the jury that she took parts out of the
Speaker 2: confession she finds irrelevant to the case, and Benson's like,
Speaker 2: what Camille said is not irrelevant. Benson's pissed. The judge
Speaker 2: threatens her. David Allen Greer is Camille's attorney. Fun Love It.
Speaker 2: So Bill is on the stand and he's claiming to
Speaker 2: barely remembering Camille, like, oh, maybe she was a camper
Speaker 2: around ninety six. He says there was no intimate contact,
Speaker 2: she was fourteen, and he can't think of any reason
Speaker 2: besides her being insane for the attack. David Allen Greer
Speaker 2: comes up and says, Okay, so when the cops first
Speaker 2: asked you about this, why did you say you didn't
Speaker 2: know who this was?
Speaker 3: Now you know who it is.
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, it's because the relation to like
Speaker 2: the other guys. And so now Gammon is on the
Speaker 2: stand and he's a dick and he says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I remember her from camp. She was moody, prone to lying,
Speaker 2: and was sexually provocative and would skinny dip with a
Speaker 2: number of boys. And this guy belongs on vander Pump rules,
Speaker 2: Like this is what big of us scumbag he is.
Speaker 2: So she screams and calls him a liar. And the
Speaker 2: judge obviously is not a fan of this behavior, and
Speaker 2: he says that she would flash him, and it's like,
Speaker 2: come on, we could just see that.
Speaker 3: It's not the vibe of this person.
Speaker 2: But he said that he let her down and so
Speaker 2: that's why she's attacking him and everything. And he then
Speaker 2: calls her dad a whack job, and she stands up
Speaker 2: and calls him a son of a bitch. And then
Speaker 2: David Allen Greer grabs her to subdue her and calm
Speaker 2: her down and says, calm down, and she screams, but
Speaker 2: he raped me. They all raped me. And then the
Speaker 2: judge says, to disregard that. But I don't get how
Speaker 2: you do that. Like I know that the judges are
Speaker 2: always telling the jury like, don't listen to that, but
Speaker 2: like we are human, Like I don't understand how you're
Speaker 2: supposed to just like not be human, like we heard it.
Speaker 3: What do you mean like not like?
Speaker 2: I just don't get how they expect people to like
Speaker 2: not take things into account.
Speaker 3: Get why they're not allowed to bring it up.
Speaker 1: The satutal limitations is up because well, I guess because
Speaker 1: you can't prove it.
Speaker 3: It's just like an accusation.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, like you can't bring up old things that
Speaker 2: are it's the law.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: So so Stabler looks pissed, and Victor's outside smoking and
Speaker 2: is not calm about any of this, and Stabler runs
Speaker 2: up to him. You should have heard the accusations against you,
Speaker 2: that all of you raped her, and he says that
Speaker 2: girl is nuts and he walks off as Stabler yells,
Speaker 2: are you sure, and he says, leave me alone, And
Speaker 2: Sailor's okay, it seems like you're a decent guy, not
Speaker 2: like those douchebags in there. What Camille did to you
Speaker 2: was terrible. But those animals are painting her with a
Speaker 2: black brush, and you have daughters, one of the same
Speaker 2: age as Camille. Back then, really dramatic music plays and
Speaker 2: he's thinking about his daughters. Victor is on the stand
Speaker 2: and we're hoping for the best, the truth.
Speaker 3: Is dot dot dot Okay.
Speaker 2: So then David Allen Greer repeats his question, what was
Speaker 2: the exact nature of your relationship with the defendant that summer?
Speaker 2: He says, that's complicated. He's wearing the version of the
Speaker 2: outfit that's let's swear to look good in court. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like her church boy blues, like a Tom Sawyer outfit.
Speaker 2: Camille is looking hissed. He says, Camille had a crush
Speaker 2: on Alexander. She wanted to hook up with him all summer,
Speaker 2: and that's why she went after him. But I don't
Speaker 2: know why she went after me and Bill. Camille does
Speaker 2: not respect the judge, and she yells out again because
Speaker 2: I heard her referring to, you know, the laughing that
Speaker 2: she heard in the park earlier, you know, and she
Speaker 2: yells out she was laughing.
Speaker 3: And then you know, order order.
Speaker 2: The gavel hits, and then Camille says I took her picture,
Speaker 2: and the judge threatens her. Benson goes into the DA's
Speaker 2: office to yell at the DA, you proud of yourself.
Speaker 2: You had to trash her. She says, I have to
Speaker 2: win the case. That's my job, and she's like, no,
Speaker 2: your job is to make sure that justice is done.
Speaker 2: Convicting Camille is not justice. She says, that's for a
Speaker 2: jury to decide, and Benson is like, they're gonna fucking
Speaker 2: have at her because you turned her in to some
Speaker 2: crazy slut. Congrats, bitch, She calls out, detective, since you're
Speaker 2: storming off, can you actually drop this off at like
Speaker 2: defense counsel? And that's like confusing, and then she hands
Speaker 2: over a green folder.
Speaker 3: Benson is shocked.
Speaker 2: She grabs it hesitantly, and the DA says, don't look
Speaker 2: at what's inside. But she does anyways, but the DA.
Speaker 1: Says it in a way that's like, don't look at
Speaker 1: what's inside, like she wants her to.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I thought it was one of those situations
Speaker 2: where it's like if Benson looked at it, like she
Speaker 2: would be in trouble or implicated into something, you know,
Speaker 2: like sometimes it's I think types of games.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought it was.
Speaker 1: I know what you're saying, but I think she's giving
Speaker 1: her like a little hint to go do the right thing,
Speaker 1: but in a way that doesn't get.
Speaker 3: Her in trouble.
Speaker 2: Yeah, her eyes do open wide, marishkas and the DA
Speaker 2: says see you tomorrow. I'll like, hmm, yeah, I no
Speaker 2: exactly what you think I am. So David Allen Greer
Speaker 2: then calls Hannah Milner to the stand and a blue
Speaker 2: eyed teen walks in and I know her from Ladybird
Speaker 2: and the blue eyes matched someone else's blue eyes, if
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And she walks in with
Speaker 2: a very confident swagger. Gammon leans into the da and
Speaker 2: is like, who is that? And she goes, I guess
Speaker 2: a defense witness. I don't know, bad acting. So this
Speaker 2: Hannah Milner's on the stand and she points at her
Speaker 2: adoptive parents and there are Kansas looking as fuck, Like
Speaker 2: these people do not live in New York. I don't
Speaker 2: They remind me of the scrunchy woman from Sex and
Speaker 2: the City. Like these are fucking country bumpkins if I've
Speaker 2: ever seen them? So okay, And then the girl knows
Speaker 2: that she has biological parents as well, and she knows
Speaker 2: who her bio parents are because David Allen Greer reached
Speaker 2: out to her, Hannah Milner to do a blood test
Speaker 2: and the results came back yesterday, and she got a
Speaker 2: call and was shown photos of her parents. He asks
Speaker 2: if her biological parents are in the courtroom today. She
Speaker 2: says yes, and he asks if she can point them
Speaker 2: out please. She points to her mother and that is Camille.
Speaker 2: Before she can point, Gammon gets up and says, this
Speaker 2: has nothing to do with that lunatic stalking us, and
Speaker 2: the judge obviously tells him to sit down and shut up,
Speaker 2: and so she gets back to pointing, and David Allen
Speaker 2: Greer is like Alexander Gammon in the blue shirt, and
Speaker 2: he pops up and says objection, this is insane. The
Speaker 2: judge is like, sit down now, and Hannah says no.
Speaker 2: The man behind him and they all look around, and
Speaker 2: he says it's true. It's my daughter, and Gammon says
Speaker 2: shut up. And Ramos says we raped her. I'm sorry Camille,
Speaker 2: and Gammon says keeps saying shut up, shut up, and
Speaker 2: he continues, all three of us did it. We raped her,
Speaker 2: and the judges had enough officers escort mister Ramos out.
Speaker 2: But before Ramos is the dad right, ye, yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: the guy with bright blue eyes, yeah yeah yeah. But
Speaker 2: before he is fully dragged, he gets a few hits
Speaker 2: and pushes on Gammon and says that he's been paying
Speaker 2: them off for their silence for years, and he made
Speaker 2: them do it. Gammon says he's crazy, and he then
Speaker 2: screams while being dragged out by two court officers. Then
Speaker 2: he screams, there's other women. He pays them off. I
Speaker 2: know this, I do his books. You're a rapist. Gammon
Speaker 2: keeps repeating the crazy line. Oh yeah, you know. Tax
Speaker 2: accountants they don't have a what is it like therapists.
Speaker 2: They don't have to keep anything secret. There's no confidentiality clauses.
Speaker 2: Accountants can spill your beams. Gammon keeps repeating the crazy line,
Speaker 2: like everyone's crazy, everyone's crazy. Ramos keeps repeating the rapist line.
Speaker 2: You're a rapist, You're a rapist. The DA smiles a
Speaker 2: coy smile. Stabler walks into interrogation in the brick wall
Speaker 2: cage window vibe room where Gammon is sitting in all
Speaker 2: of his stewing anger, and Stabler reveals that Ramos and
Speaker 2: Dixon are going to do some time for perjury, which
Speaker 2: is a small price to pay for rape, but it
Speaker 2: is something. But you you're looking at a very long bid.
Speaker 2: And he asks how he knew Ramos was the father,
Speaker 2: and Stabler goes DNA duh, but we also have more picks.
Speaker 2: And Stabler opens a folder with two women's faces and
Speaker 2: he's like, do you recognize them? Hmmm, But obviously this
Speaker 2: dude doesn't want to talk, and Sabler says, well, they're
Speaker 2: on your payroll for your silence, except they're giving the
Speaker 2: money back and they're pressing charges against you, and un
Speaker 2: like Camille, the statue of limitations has it run out
Speaker 2: on them. And so then Gammon asks what happens now,
Speaker 2: and Stabler smiles and he's really finding joy and putting
Speaker 2: the scum away, and he goes not very clever, but
Speaker 2: Stabler does have fun, and he says, go directly to jail,
Speaker 2: do not pasco, do not collect two hundred dollars. And
Speaker 2: Camille gets to watch this on the other side of
Speaker 2: the glass, and she thinks Detective Benson, and then Benson
Speaker 2: does tell her she still needs to see the judge
Speaker 2: about sentencing, who might need a few days off after
Speaker 2: the trial, Like I don't like, how is a crazy trial?
Speaker 2: Like she needs so like a Bermuda four day like long.
Speaker 1: The judge is doing self care and needs to just reset.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like no one is listening to her, like you
Speaker 2: had a gavel so many times, but she's gonna have
Speaker 2: two minor counts of trespassed, so like that's pretty chill
Speaker 2: for branding, I think. But she's okay to pray the
Speaker 2: price for her crimes, like she's a chill girl. So
Speaker 2: then she goes to meet Hannah, and Hannah wants to
Speaker 2: wish her good look in court, and Camille apologizes that
Speaker 2: this is how they had to meet, and Hannah's like,
Speaker 2: I don't mind, Like this is cool, and Camille says
Speaker 2: thank you, and they cry and smile and embrace and
Speaker 2: they hug deep and Benson has moved and Camille really cry,
Speaker 2: like they really cry of joy, and it's like a
Speaker 2: very beautiful moment. And Dick Wolf Baby Oh branded branded
Speaker 2: A good one, A good one.
Speaker 1: Thank you Lisa for taking us through that episode. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back with several little cases to discuss, and
Speaker 1: we're back. So one of the things this episode is
Speaker 1: based on, it seems, is the Millennium book series, which
Speaker 1: are the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo books, which I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with. The you know, the Millennium book series were
Speaker 1: written by Steve Larson who's a Swedish journalist and the
Speaker 1: main protagonist is a woman named Lizabeth Salander, and she
Speaker 1: is like a rape victim who partakes in a lot
Speaker 1: of vigilante justice. And these books are like the Girl
Speaker 1: with the Dragon tattoo, the Girl who played with Fire,
Speaker 1: and the Girl kicked the hornet's nest and then he
Speaker 1: unexpectedly died, I believe, And oh yeah, Stieg Larsen died,
Speaker 1: and so another Swedish author picked up like his estate
Speaker 1: like hired him to keep going on the books. So
Speaker 1: he wrote the Girl in the Spider's Web, the Girl
Speaker 1: who takes an eye for an eye, and the Girl
Speaker 1: who Lived Twice And is.
Speaker 2: It all one girl doing all this or is each yeah,
Speaker 2: different person.
Speaker 1: No, it's always Lizabeth Salander. And she's this very skinny,
Speaker 1: genius hacker who has had like a tough upbringing. And
Speaker 1: she also does at one point brand a rapist with
Speaker 1: the words quote I am a sadistic pig, a pervert
Speaker 1: and a rapist.
Speaker 2: So but only one movie, or they're gonna continue doing
Speaker 2: all these movies.
Speaker 1: They made three movies in Swedish. I've watched all of them,
Speaker 1: and they star knew me Repace and she's like a
Speaker 1: Swedish actress who kind of had some crossover success. I
Speaker 1: think she was in one of the Sherlock Holmes movies
Speaker 1: with Robert Downey June's and she is a great Lizabeth Salander.
Speaker 1: Then they read that David Fincher made The Girl with
Speaker 1: the Dragon Tattoo with Svu Alum Rooney Mara, and I
Speaker 1: just didn't think that was that great. I think that's
Speaker 1: why they didn't really. I think they expected them to
Speaker 1: really hit and they didn't. But I loved those books
Speaker 1: so much, Like I remember closing The Girl Who Played
Speaker 1: with Fire and putting it down on my coffee table
Speaker 1: and just walking out the door of my apartment to
Speaker 1: go buy the next one, Like I was obsessed. Like
Speaker 1: I was like, I have to read the next one immediately.
Speaker 1: So I have seen the Sweet I do like the
Speaker 1: Swedish movies. But there's a couple. There's another episode we
Speaker 1: talked about that I feel like has grow with the
Speaker 1: Dragon Tattoo vibes as well, so this seems to be
Speaker 1: borrowing a little bit from it. Another reference in this
Speaker 1: episode is to Richard Lee McNair, and he is a
Speaker 1: murderer and I'm not really going to get into his
Speaker 1: crimes because it's not really relevant, but he was in
Speaker 1: prison in Louisiana and he worked in a part of
Speaker 1: the prison where he repaired old mail bags, and in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six he figured out a way to
Speaker 1: mail himself out of prison.
Speaker 3: Basically he made it like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's kind of where the was he in
Speaker 1: prison for murder?
Speaker 3: M murder?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he deserved to be in jail,
Speaker 1: like he deserved to be in jail.
Speaker 3: He's a murder.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 3: I love an escape?
Speaker 2: Like, yes, that's the thing. It's like so fun when
Speaker 2: they escape, but they do deserve to be in there.
Speaker 1: Here's why you're gonna love Richard Lee McNair even more.
Speaker 1: This was his third escape, Oh my third fucking escape.
Speaker 1: His first escape he only lasted a few hours. His
Speaker 1: second escape, he made it October to July, so like
Speaker 1: eight or nine months. And then basically what happened with
Speaker 1: this one is he made an escape pod much like
Speaker 1: the back attack box. It had a breathing tube and everything,
Speaker 1: and then he buried himself under mail bags and then
Speaker 1: the whole palette was shrink wrapped and forklifted to a
Speaker 1: warehouse that was outside of the security area of the prison.
Speaker 1: So when all the guys broke for lunch, he just
Speaker 1: cut himself out and walked right off the property and
Speaker 1: on that prison break that was from April six. They
Speaker 1: didn't catch him until October of seven, so he was
Speaker 1: gone for eighteen months. He got a nice little vaca,
Speaker 1: and now he's in jail forever for murder and prison escape,
Speaker 1: which is so I wonder what security he's at now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I wonder if he's treated like a king.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you're an escape guy, if everyone's like, hell, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's our dude, Like way to go, bro, Like if
Speaker 2: you're the opposite of a pedophile, Like, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, it's wild after two escapes, they would give him
Speaker 1: any kind of job where he would have any access
Speaker 1: to like the outside, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I feel if you escape three times, that's bingo. You
Speaker 3: get to leave. Yeah, you did it. You in eight
Speaker 3: to nine months alone and then eighteen months.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, we need to clever your we need to
Speaker 1: harness your cleverness for good, Like you need to let
Speaker 1: you out and like put you in a lab and
Speaker 1: make you solve some problems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like why should he should work for the FBI
Speaker 2: and help like POW's escape or something. I don't know,
Speaker 2: let me look up what he looks like. Maybe maybe
Speaker 2: I'll change my opinion.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I didn't really get into all
Speaker 1: of his crimes because at first I couldn't figure out
Speaker 1: why it was related to this episode, and then I
Speaker 1: was like, ah, yes, because he is. There was even
Speaker 1: like a book or a movie or something that was
Speaker 1: like the man who mailed himself out of jail or
Speaker 1: something like that. He murdered a man and shot a
Speaker 1: second man in a botched robbery.
Speaker 2: I'm glad he's killing men. Honestly, I'm glad it's not
Speaker 2: a woman or a child. I mean it's someone's child. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then the case that this is also based on
Speaker 1: more broadly, it appears, is a case that happens.
Speaker 3: So he was just trying.
Speaker 2: To do a burglary and was surprised by two men
Speaker 2: and murdered one of them, Like he wasn't planning on.
Speaker 3: Murdering, Okay, but he murdered somebody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, an accident and then he just shot someone four
Speaker 2: times but they survived.
Speaker 1: And I think I wonder if he would have gotten
Speaker 1: parole if he hadn't kept escaping.
Speaker 2: I wonder, No, obviously this is a psychopath, but like
Speaker 2: I'm just I love an escape.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, let's let's keep it moving. Let's sell.
Speaker 1: The case that this is also based on is the
Speaker 1: case of Masami Yoshinaga. This happened in nineteen ninety five
Speaker 1: in Okinawa, Japan, where there was and I believe still is,
Speaker 1: and I know there still is a US military presence.
Speaker 3: I don't know how heavy it is.
Speaker 1: This case involved one guy from the Navy named Marcus
Speaker 1: Gill and two Marine named Roudriko Harp and Kendrick Ledett,
Speaker 1: who were all serving at Camp Hansen on Okinawa. So Gil,
Speaker 1: who seems like he was the ringleader of this group
Speaker 1: of dudes, rented a white van and picked up the
Speaker 1: other two guys, and then there was a fourth guy
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: They went around to lunch.
Speaker 1: They drove around all afternoon, and then Gil started talking
Speaker 1: about raping someone and the fourth man was like, I'd
Speaker 1: like to be dropped off please, and so he got
Speaker 1: out of the car and didn't want anything to do
Speaker 1: with what they were doing. Ladette and Harp wanted to
Speaker 1: pay for sex, like they had some money between them,
Speaker 1: and they were like, let's just go find like a
Speaker 1: sex worker. And Gil had no money, and plus he
Speaker 1: said paid sex was quote no fun. So Harp's attorney,
Speaker 1: mitsu Nobu Matsunaga, said that Gil said it was just
Speaker 1: for fun. So Harp and Ledett thought he was joking
Speaker 1: about this whole thing until he showed them that he
Speaker 1: was prepared with duct tape and condoms. So I don't
Speaker 1: know why they didn't bail then, but they were still
Speaker 1: in the car and at eight pm they saw a
Speaker 1: twelve year old Japanese schoolgirl named Masami Yoshinaga, wearing a
Speaker 1: school uniform and carrying a bag of books, just walking
Speaker 1: along the street. They pulled her into the van, kidnapped her,
Speaker 1: beat her to be quiet, duct tape her eyes and
Speaker 1: her mouth shut, and bound her hands, and then they
Speaker 1: drove to a secluded field. Another source I read said
Speaker 1: it was a beach. I don't know, but it was
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes away. They parked the car and the
Speaker 1: men all got out, and then Gil, the ringleader, who
Speaker 1: is humongous, like a six feet tall two hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty to two hundred and seventy pounds, got in the backseat,
Speaker 1: and when the girl struggled, he said, quote unquote, let
Speaker 1: me do what I want to do. And this whole
Speaker 1: story like makes me want to throw up because the
Speaker 1: girl is so young and it's just horrible all five.
Speaker 2: Ways, guys, And this is I mean, we talk about
Speaker 2: this on the pod so much, but it's like American heroes,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, like military, you're a hero.
Speaker 1: Like fuck no, these are just men that think they
Speaker 1: can take what they want and like they're especially it's
Speaker 1: like you're like a guest in this country, Like what
Speaker 1: are you? You can't come at crimes. It's horrible. And so,
Speaker 1: according to Harp's lawyer, Ladette and Harp, the other.
Speaker 2: Two guys feel like they're victims of this too. I'm
Speaker 2: sure they take no responsibility. We sure they're like this
Speaker 2: big guy made us. We had no choice. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: you think you're you think your heroes and in the
Speaker 2: military and deserve so much attention and accolades, and yet
Speaker 2: you don't even have the courage to stand up to
Speaker 2: a colleague.
Speaker 3: Get yes, girl, you're gonna hear it all.
Speaker 1: So Ladett and Harper apparently went into the backseat as
Speaker 1: well and saw how young the girl was and bailed.
Speaker 1: The confusing thing is that Harp signed a documents saying
Speaker 1: he committed the rape, and then later he said he
Speaker 1: just helped Gil do it, So it's really unclear whether
Speaker 1: he did it or not because he did confess and
Speaker 1: then he recanted his confession. Ladette said he only pretended
Speaker 1: to do it because he was scared of Gil, and
Speaker 1: everyone seems to back up Ladett's story, like he's really
Speaker 1: mostly considered an accessory through most of this. Then they
Speaker 1: threw her out of the car after they were done
Speaker 1: and left. They were arrested by US military police two
Speaker 1: days later.
Speaker 3: Who let them go with a pat on the back.
Speaker 1: No no listen in this case actually, like this case
Speaker 1: actually became extremely political with and became a huge thing
Speaker 1: with US Japan relations. These men claim that they were
Speaker 1: being discriminated against because they were all black, and they
Speaker 1: said that their confessions were coerced and they recounted them
Speaker 1: and in the Japanese media, I thought this was interesting.
Speaker 1: Photos of their faces were almost non existent, like they
Speaker 1: weren't splashed all over papers because they were worried that
Speaker 1: the angry public reaction as it was because people were
Speaker 1: extremely angry about how the attack and who these men
Speaker 1: were as military men, and how they were, how young
Speaker 1: the victim was, but they were worried that it would
Speaker 1: further develop into a race issue. But back in the US,
Speaker 1: I'm reading an LA Times article that goes Ldett is
Speaker 1: literally a boy scout and a church usher. Gil took
Speaker 1: AP classes and played football and Harp's only criminal record
Speaker 1: was stealing five dollars from another student.
Speaker 3: Good boys, like you.
Speaker 1: Know, the whole slant of these stories is like who
Speaker 1: would have expected it? And it's like we hear this
Speaker 1: shit all the fucking time. So what happened after that,
Speaker 1: after they were arrested is because of the there's something
Speaker 1: called the US Japan Status of Forces Agreement, which grants
Speaker 1: the US military some privileges in Japan, and these men
Speaker 1: were because of that, These men were initially held on
Speaker 1: the US base, even though the crime was committed off
Speaker 1: the base. There were rumors going around that these guys
Speaker 1: were like roaming free on the base, eating burgers, living
Speaker 1: their lives like nothing happened. But the US military says, no,
Speaker 1: we had them in a jail on our property. And
Speaker 1: I will say, when I went to Kuwait to do
Speaker 1: stand up for the troops. I did go to a
Speaker 1: Navy base where I saw the jail that they keep
Speaker 1: guys in when they commit crimes, like in Kuwait, they
Speaker 1: where they.
Speaker 3: Keep the guys so they do exist. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they put the guys in there
Speaker 1: that much, but the people of Japan were obviously furious.
Speaker 1: They wanted these men turned over to Japanese authorities, which
Speaker 1: is the policy after formal charges are brought, which I
Speaker 1: think in our case would be called like an indictment.
Speaker 3: So basically, these guys got.
Speaker 1: Taken in on September sixth, and a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: go by and they're still not hands it over to
Speaker 1: Japanese authorities because they haven't been brought up on formal
Speaker 1: charges yet. There's all these anti American feelings in Okinawa
Speaker 1: as it is because of their presence there, and then
Speaker 1: this crime did not help any of that. So Okinawa
Speaker 1: was one of the most important American military outposts in
Speaker 1: the Pacific at that time. Forty five thousand US troops
Speaker 1: were stationed there, and this led to a lot of
Speaker 1: debate about whether Japan should ask for a lighter presence
Speaker 1: from the US military so they were formerly indicted on
Speaker 1: September twenty ninth, and they moved into the custody of
Speaker 1: Japanese authorities. So whether or not they had this like
Speaker 1: twenty four day twenty three day, like you know, vacation
Speaker 1: on their military base, who knows. On October twenty first,
Speaker 1: there was a huge rally to protest this incident and
Speaker 1: protest US military bases. Eighty five thousand residents participated in
Speaker 1: the rally in Ginowan City Ginewan City, sorry if from
Speaker 1: pronouncing that in quickly, and and that included the governor
Speaker 1: of Okinawa, Masahide Ota, and the largest protest in Okinawa
Speaker 1: since this treaty was signed to nineteen sixties. So this
Speaker 1: really was like a huge up like this crime really
Speaker 1: caused a huge uprising in Japan due to the protests
Speaker 1: regarding jurisdiction. The US actually made some concessions and agreed
Speaker 1: to consider transferring suspects over to Japanese authorities beforeign indictment
Speaker 1: if the severity of the crime warrants it, which you
Speaker 1: would assume in this case, like a brutal rape of
Speaker 1: a child, a murder like something like that. So this
Speaker 1: agreement was decided at an emergency meeting between Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: and Japanese Prime Minister Ryutaro Hashimoto. So this crime is
Speaker 1: making like legislation and you know, international foreign policy happen.
Speaker 1: So the people of Okinawa also placed a full page
Speaker 1: ad in the New York Times decrying the rape and
Speaker 1: other aspects of having the US base in Okinawa. And
Speaker 1: then in nineteen ninety six, the United States and Japan
Speaker 1: signed a bilateral agreement to reduce the amount of land
Speaker 1: on Okinawa covered by US basis by twenty one percent.
Speaker 1: So some change did come from this and the okay.
Speaker 1: So then US Navy admirals, remember one of these guys
Speaker 1: is in the Navy and two of them are in
Speaker 1: the Marines. The US Navy Admiral Richard C. Mack was
Speaker 1: the commander of the United States Pacific Command at the
Speaker 1: time of the attack. At a press conference in November
Speaker 1: of ninety five, so two months after the attack, he said, quote,
Speaker 1: I think it was absolutely stupid. I have said several
Speaker 1: times for the price they paid to rent the car,
Speaker 1: they could have had a girl, meaning they could have
Speaker 1: just hired a sex worker. There was no need to
Speaker 1: do what they did. And like obviously these remarks were
Speaker 1: very much condemned, and he lost his job and he
Speaker 1: was forced into early retirement. He also had his rank
Speaker 1: reduced to rear admiral, which is a two star, from
Speaker 1: a full star admiral from a full admiral which is
Speaker 1: a four star. So that's it means nothing to us,
Speaker 1: but that's a huge like shame probably in the military.
Speaker 1: And his pension got reduced from like seventy three hundred
Speaker 1: dollars a month to fifty nine hundred dollars a month,
Speaker 1: still living large. So eventually these three men were tried
Speaker 1: in Japanese court in March of nineteen ninety six, and
Speaker 1: the cases were heard by three judges. They do not
Speaker 1: have jury trials in Japan, they have judges. So Gil
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to rape, so even though he originally like
Speaker 1: recnced his confession, he pleaded guilty, and the other two
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to conspiracy. Gil described the incident to the
Speaker 1: court in such graphic detail that the court interpreter broke
Speaker 1: down in tears.
Speaker 3: Horrible.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors asked for the max for each of them, which
Speaker 1: was ten years each. Harp's lawyer Matsunaga told the La
Speaker 1: Times that rape convictions under Japanese law normally result in
Speaker 1: three to four years, which does not seem like a lot,
Speaker 1: but the US court martial for rape in Okinawa has
Speaker 1: typically carried a minimum sentence of ten years. So Gil
Speaker 1: and Harp. Gil is the main guy, he gets seven years.
Speaker 1: Harp also gets seven years. He's the guy who first
Speaker 1: said he did it and then said he just helped.
Speaker 1: The judges said they believed Ladette the real the guy
Speaker 1: who was the helper, who didn't actually commit a rape,
Speaker 1: and said that, but Harp had already confessed to the rape,
Speaker 1: and they could not rely on his later testimony that
Speaker 1: denied it. So they gave him seven But the other
Speaker 1: guy got six and a half. Ladette got six and
Speaker 1: a half. So that's I cannot believe that's what a
Speaker 1: judge feels is a fair punishment for like ruining the
Speaker 1: life of a twelve year old child.
Speaker 3: But you know, this is Japan. They what they're But.
Speaker 1: I looked up California and it feels like the sentences
Speaker 1: are more like ten years and then thirteen years if
Speaker 1: depending on the age of the child. If it's a child,
Speaker 1: it's a minor. Excuse me, that's what that's the word
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be using if it's a minor, so
Speaker 1: we definitely have harsher sentences here.
Speaker 3: But this feels like I don't.
Speaker 1: Know why they would have gotten any leniency, and they
Speaker 1: wouldn't have all just gotten the max. Their families also
Speaker 1: paid monetary compensation to the family of the victim, which
Speaker 1: I guess is common practice in Japan. Darryl Johnson, who
Speaker 1: was the president of the Okinawa chapter of the NAACP,
Speaker 1: said the sentence was excessive. He said, quote excessive compared
Speaker 1: to verdicts that would be given to Okinawan nationals. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure whether it's because they are American or African
Speaker 1: American end quote, And I'm like, it doesn't seem excessive
Speaker 1: to me at all for what they did. They like
Speaker 1: went on a hunting expedition. Are you kidding me? Like
Speaker 1: this wasn't like a he said, she said date rape situation,
Speaker 1: like this is a child that they kidnapped.
Speaker 3: Also, is there not a kidnapping charge? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm getting angry at Japanese court right now.
Speaker 2: No, I'm honestly looking this Daryl Johnson guy up so
Speaker 2: I can write him an emails.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm doing right now to think that.
Speaker 2: That's not I just don't understand how no one thinks
Speaker 2: that that's a light sentence. I'm like truly sitting here
Speaker 2: in chakra right now that anyone thinks that this is
Speaker 2: an excessive sentence to rape.
Speaker 3: I just like I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, seven years feels like what you get for
Speaker 1: like dealing drugs or like a nonviolent robbery or something.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm also going by us where we're
Speaker 1: obsessed with the prison system, so maybe Japan has different situations, don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm obsessed with punitive like punishments. I
Speaker 2: just I'm like, if you are someone that is down
Speaker 2: with raping a twelve year old, I don't think you
Speaker 2: should be allowed to interact with humans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're a danger to the public.
Speaker 2: Like and if you're okay chilling while your friend does that,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be allowed in public, Like I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm the crazy one. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not only that, you join the military, you're
Speaker 2: not even just a regular person, Like you have special privileges.
Speaker 2: You chose to have a gun, you chose to like
Speaker 2: have you know, I don't know, special key card, access
Speaker 2: to other privileges.
Speaker 3: It's just like twisted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's twisted for someone to say it's excessive.
Speaker 3: Daryl Johnson, go fuck yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So these three men served prison terms in Japanese prisons.
Speaker 1: They were released during two thousand and three, so they
Speaker 1: all did their full sentence and they were given other
Speaker 1: than honorable discharge from the military. Seems like a very
Speaker 1: euphemistic way to say rapists. After their release, Rodriko Harp
Speaker 1: decried the prison conditions in Japan and said that the
Speaker 1: prison labor he was forced to do it was basically
Speaker 1: like slave labor. Well, I mean, but that's that is true,
Speaker 1: and then this is wild Ladette, the one who claimed
Speaker 1: he didn't even do this, died in two thousand and
Speaker 1: six in an apparent murder suicide in the United States.
Speaker 1: He was found in the apartment of Lauren Cooper, who
Speaker 1: was a Jew at Kenesaw State University. And I believe
Speaker 1: also that's the name of Erica Christensen's character in her
Speaker 1: episode Wildly, But she was a junior at Kanessas State
Speaker 1: University who he had apparently sexually assaulted and murdered by strangulation,
Speaker 1: and then he took his own life by just like
Speaker 1: cutting his arm open at the elbow and that's how
Speaker 1: he died. And he's the one that was the accessory.
Speaker 2: Yes, but this is what we were just talking about
Speaker 2: four months ago. People like, if.
Speaker 1: You can do that, yeah, what can't you do? Yes,
Speaker 1: this is what like if you can.
Speaker 2: Rape or sit idly by while your friend rapes a
Speaker 2: twelve year old, I'm not shocked that you would fucking
Speaker 2: slice a woman's throat and take your own life, Like
Speaker 2: that's not Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's that case.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's it's similar in the sense
Speaker 1: that it's like three men and it's not summer camp.
Speaker 1: It was more of a kidnapping situation. But and I unfortunately,
Speaker 1: like I can't find any information on like the victim.
Speaker 1: I wanted to see if maybe she had like you know,
Speaker 1: I bet Japan locks that shit down. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that's probably it. So there's no information on like
Speaker 1: how she's doing or anything. But if she was twelve
Speaker 1: and ninety six, she's in her like thirties by now,
Speaker 1: so I hope she's been able to heal. But horrible,
Speaker 1: and I just like, ugh, just this idea of like
Speaker 1: you're in this are you in this country to protect people?
Speaker 3: What are you in this country for? Why are you?
Speaker 1: Like you just don't have any respect for the country
Speaker 1: that you're living in. And but these guys probably would
Speaker 1: have done something like this in the US too. It
Speaker 1: doesn't really have anything to do with the location. It's
Speaker 1: just fucked and it gives us all a bad name,
Speaker 1: all Americans when the military guys act like assholes.
Speaker 2: Then it's also the theory of like men will just
Speaker 2: defend any other man, like this Daryl guy being like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, is this successive? Like why is your
Speaker 2: instinct not put them away for life? They raped a
Speaker 2: twelve year old? Fuck that guy, Like, I don't get
Speaker 2: the instinct to be like, I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: it's political.
Speaker 1: I think it's political because he's the head of an
Speaker 1: organization that's you know that where he has to They
Speaker 1: asked him for a statement about this, and you know
Speaker 1: he has to look at it from that through that lens.
Speaker 2: I guess I think the lens can be what a
Speaker 2: sad day and he makes all of us look bad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm so glad someone that rapes twelve year olds is
Speaker 2: put away their.
Speaker 3: Right, Like I don't I don't.
Speaker 2: Understand how the nc NAACP how it's the advancement for
Speaker 2: their people to defend or think it's excessive to punish
Speaker 2: a rapist, like in what world? Right, change the race
Speaker 2: of the victim? Yeah, change the race of the victim?
Speaker 2: Like does then suddenly is the sentence successive?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: It's just the it's just like the instinct, Like why
Speaker 2: is your instinct to defend the predator? Yeah, well that
Speaker 2: speaks volumes because I could be wrong all the time.
Speaker 2: I can be wrong often, but my instinct is always
Speaker 2: to defend the viac, Like you know, there could be
Speaker 2: instances when I'm wrong, but my but my instinct is
Speaker 2: always who's being victimized? Or like who is who is
Speaker 2: the power? Who lacks the power in the situation? Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And then I could be wrong or
Speaker 2: like oh yeah, you're right, Like I think it's like
Speaker 2: important or like interesting, like where your instinct goes to
Speaker 2: who you empathize with or like who you want to
Speaker 2: side with? So often men like the instinct is to
Speaker 2: defend a predator, and that is confusing to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a man defending other men about the sentence,
Speaker 1: Like I don't think he's condoning their crimes in any way,
Speaker 1: but he's it's about the sentence, and it's like, however
Speaker 1: you look at it, the sentence is too light for
Speaker 1: Okinawa Nationals. If you think that it would be more
Speaker 1: less f it's too light, like it's too light as
Speaker 1: it is. It makes you no like it truly is
Speaker 1: mind boggling. But oh my god. On the Housewives they
Speaker 1: keep saying I'm mind boggled about this, Like, Wow, you're
Speaker 1: mind boggling me right now, and it's really cracking me
Speaker 1: up these days. Sorry, trying to get it onto a
Speaker 1: lighter note before we move on to our amazing guest.
Speaker 1: You guys are gonna love her. We'll be right back
Speaker 1: with that. Our guest today is an actor who has
Speaker 1: had her life saved by some of the best TV
Speaker 1: doctors out there, having recently been featured on Chicago Med
Speaker 1: and Gray's Anatomy. But you can also catch her in
Speaker 1: a new Nicholas Cage vampire movie called Renfield out right now,
Speaker 1: very anticipated and she's in the very small cast.
Speaker 3: And you guys know her today as.
Speaker 1: The cardboard box busting hacker Camille Walters. Guys, please enjoy
Speaker 1: our convo with the lovely best Rouse.
Speaker 2: I guess the first question seeing you, are you a
Speaker 2: natural curly haired woman or are you straightening your hair?
Speaker 3: What's happening.
Speaker 5: I'm a very very curly haired gal. I started straightening
Speaker 5: it around twenty eighteen, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how'd you get good at it?
Speaker 3: So you never straightened it before twenty eighteen? And then I've.
Speaker 5: Not really like my mom, let me get it blown
Speaker 5: out once when I was thirteen, which was just major.
Speaker 3: And but we're going to about mitzvah or something, well.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, it was mine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what was that theme?
Speaker 5: Was ice skating because I was an ice skater in
Speaker 5: my childhood, so that was my theme. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you ever get called in for parts where you'd
Speaker 1: have to ice skate?
Speaker 5: Never?
Speaker 1: Oh, they need to make it more prominent on your
Speaker 1: resume as a special skill.
Speaker 5: I've never, I know, people ask that. I'm like, no,
Speaker 5: you know, I've never. I've never gotten the call.
Speaker 1: This episode is wild. Tell us about Kara Loves Summer camp.
Speaker 2: So I'm sure you were, well a fresh air Yeah,
Speaker 2: a fresh air campus. Yeah, I did love them going
Speaker 2: to a fresh air camp. But you tell us about
Speaker 2: your like like.
Speaker 3: Law and Order journey.
Speaker 1: You had done two episodes of Original Recipe before you
Speaker 1: did SVU, and so then did they just know you
Speaker 1: and kind of bring you in for this one? Did
Speaker 1: you have to audition? Did they get like, oh, how
Speaker 1: did it work?
Speaker 5: Like it actually took me seven and a half years
Speaker 5: to get on SVU.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like, I mean it was worth it because
Speaker 5: I love the role of Camille and I love that
Speaker 5: episode and it was so special. But yeah, they'll tell
Speaker 5: you Peter Liedo ned Alita, you know sometimes so he
Speaker 5: and Neil Bayer and all those guys and Jonathan's jazz. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I would go in every year for seven and a
Speaker 5: half years, and I just I couldn't get it until
Speaker 5: I could.
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't that you couldn't It was you were
Speaker 1: waiting for the right one, right, Yes, waiting.
Speaker 5: For the right one. It was a long, long journey.
Speaker 5: But I really do think it was worth it because
Speaker 5: had I gotten any of those other roles, I don't
Speaker 5: know that it had. Like that episode was so a
Speaker 5: really special episode.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Your character is like a genius hacker with a vendetta.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is the girl with the dragon tattoo
Speaker 1: on SVU.
Speaker 5: Which is so funny because your producer just had to
Speaker 5: help me do like every small technical thing to just
Speaker 5: get out of the zoom.
Speaker 3: He had to like.
Speaker 5: Help me write my name. It's just so funny that
Speaker 5: the technological thing is so far.
Speaker 3: From shows how good the acting was.
Speaker 2: Were you able to have fun shooting even though it's
Speaker 2: such an intense part or was it like serious hard work,
Speaker 2: which also I guess can be fun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I would say because also again it
Speaker 5: was my first big role. I was very very focused
Speaker 5: and not wanting to disappoint anyone and wanting to do
Speaker 5: my best. So I was really really kind of nose
Speaker 5: to the grindstone, and you know, there were some you know,
Speaker 5: everyone was so nice there, so like definitely there were
Speaker 5: moments of laughter, but I wanted to make sure I
Speaker 5: really kind of stayed in the zone and told the
Speaker 5: story and just really didn't let anyone down. Let can
Speaker 5: you all down, let you know, the writers.
Speaker 3: Or anybody, so totally well, you didn't.
Speaker 1: It was It's real like I remember that, like I
Speaker 1: always remember your face from this. You know, there are
Speaker 1: five hundred episodes and we've seen all of the many
Speaker 1: times but like I always just like remember your face
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, Like I always remember you from this episode.
Speaker 1: So a very important question about the craft is that
Speaker 1: you busting out of that box in the episode?
Speaker 3: Is that you coming out of it?
Speaker 5: It really is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: I was like, is that a double because like your
Speaker 1: face is hidden, So I was like, maybe it's a
Speaker 1: body double or whatever or a stunt person.
Speaker 3: No, and so they like to put you in a box.
Speaker 1: And they were like, Okay, on the count of three,
Speaker 1: get out of the box.
Speaker 5: I love this, And I had like an actual which
Speaker 5: you know, it's funny. I don't know because you know
Speaker 5: the times they are changing, you know, I don't know
Speaker 5: that I would be given this now, But I had
Speaker 5: an actual weapon in my hand in that box. It
Speaker 5: was like partially a box cutter and partially like a
Speaker 5: pocket knife or something. And so Needlelito was sitting right
Speaker 5: outside of the box and they would do a countdown.
Speaker 5: I would like, burst out of the box.
Speaker 3: How many boxes did you guys go through?
Speaker 5: You know, I don't remember that part, but.
Speaker 3: If they had a lot of boxes on.
Speaker 5: Deck, you know they I think they had it sort
Speaker 5: of like perforated inside so I knew what to like
Speaker 5: a cut through you could.
Speaker 1: Like put yeah, maybe they put it back together a
Speaker 1: little bit every time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was it was funny. That was That was
Speaker 5: the fun.
Speaker 2: And so when you were when they caught you, like,
Speaker 2: you know, when Stabler is in that chair spins around,
Speaker 2: were you were you holding the real weapon there too?
Speaker 5: No, I was holding like a needle.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah it was the needle to Yeah it.
Speaker 5: Was a needle, but yeah, I don't I'm pretty sure
Speaker 5: I think it was a real needle. I feel like
Speaker 5: I would have been told, like, you're holding a real needle,
Speaker 5: but yeah, it was a needle. And then and then
Speaker 5: Maloney had he had the gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, Yeah, how was working with him?
Speaker 3: How was working with Chris Maloney?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 5: He was so so nice and both of them. I mean,
Speaker 5: I have a couple of wonderful story moments with Marishka
Speaker 5: and I just even to this day, I remember how
Speaker 5: generous they were and how like genuinely they were not
Speaker 5: only supportive, but really you could feel that they wanted
Speaker 5: me to do well. And I remember when we finished
Speaker 5: that scene, Marishka said, you made it sing, you know,
Speaker 5: And they were just so like so many years later,
Speaker 5: I just still it still brings a smile to my face,
Speaker 5: and I think about how how just authentically nice they
Speaker 5: both were to me.
Speaker 2: So that would you be open to sharing some of
Speaker 2: your stories that you remember?
Speaker 5: Oh sure, well that was one of them. They're not
Speaker 5: they're not too extravagant. But I remember when I did
Speaker 5: the scene, you know, the very big monologue where I
Speaker 5: confess to what happened to me and yeah, you know
Speaker 5: why I did what I did. So the night before
Speaker 5: we were shooting, and it's so nice. Now, I was
Speaker 5: a stranger to Marishka, like she didn't know me, she
Speaker 5: was never going to see me again, and she pulled
Speaker 5: me aside and she asked me if I wanted to
Speaker 5: come to her home that night that she was hosting
Speaker 5: a benefit gala at her home. And I was like,
Speaker 5: oh my gosh, what Like it was so just I
Speaker 5: don't know, she's a big star and I'm just like this,
Speaker 5: you know, kid, trying to like not mess up my
Speaker 5: first big TV role. And I was so grateful. I
Speaker 5: actually turned her down because I had my big monologue
Speaker 5: the next day and I was a read that oh gosh,
Speaker 5: like if I don't work on it, the night before
Speaker 5: and if I'm like out, oh.
Speaker 1: My gosh, the dedication, I cannot even I would be like, I'm.
Speaker 3: There, what's the dress code? I was just like, when
Speaker 3: I get it, you don't want to like be.
Speaker 1: Out with the star of the show and then the
Speaker 1: next day be bumbling over your monologue Like that would
Speaker 1: be Yeah.
Speaker 5: I just thought because the monologue was so big and
Speaker 5: so important to the episode, it was really like the
Speaker 5: clincher of the whole story, and I just wanted to
Speaker 5: be I think I had to know within myself, like
Speaker 5: if I messed up, at least I know I stayed
Speaker 5: home and like worked on it. But I'm.
Speaker 3: How'd she take it?
Speaker 5: Oh? She was lovely and she understood because she knew
Speaker 5: like what I had to do the next day. And
Speaker 5: it was also first thing in the morning. It was
Speaker 5: like the first scene up, so she completely understood. And
Speaker 5: then when we sat down to do that scene, and
Speaker 5: you could just feel the like I just still remember
Speaker 5: the feeling of the air in the room, you know,
Speaker 5: because the content was so unimaginable, you know. And I
Speaker 5: remember that she said to me, this scene belongs to
Speaker 5: you kids. She's like, whatever you need, you tell me.
Speaker 5: And it was such like I in many ways, I
Speaker 5: credit anything I was able to do on that episode
Speaker 5: to her and to everyone around me, because how helpful
Speaker 5: is that to be having the big star of the
Speaker 5: show say that to you right before you have to
Speaker 5: deliver a model like that, you know, And I always
Speaker 5: always remembered it was so she was just so like
Speaker 5: truly kind, and I felt, oh, she really I'm okay,
Speaker 5: like I can do this. I mean I didn't say
Speaker 5: anything like to even elicit her saying that. I was
Speaker 5: just sitting there like waiting for them to like set
Speaker 5: up the cameras, you know, but it was so so
Speaker 5: nice and yeah, so if there is anything about that
Speaker 5: that that worked out well, it was probably because she
Speaker 5: made me feel you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We just hear that so much from like everybody we
Speaker 1: talked to on this podcast that I feel like it's
Speaker 1: it's a really a huge contributor to why the show
Speaker 1: is successful, as she makes all the guest stars feel
Speaker 1: so so like at home that everybody delivers these amazing performances.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like and she doesn't have to do that,
Speaker 3: you know, she.
Speaker 5: Really doesn't, Like I was. I was just sitting there,
Speaker 5: you know, they they're setting up the lighting and the
Speaker 5: camera and they're kind of marking and she didn't have
Speaker 5: to say anything, but she she did, and I feel like,
Speaker 5: you know, it really set the tone and probably made
Speaker 5: me feel like I could, you know, go for it.
Speaker 5: And yeah, and I never forgot that because you always
Speaker 5: remember the kindness, like you know I do. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, and how were the courtroom scenes? That's exactly
Speaker 1: what I was going to say. Yeah, I know it
Speaker 1: was just like that courtroom scene. You got to have
Speaker 1: an outburst. The judge yelled at you.
Speaker 3: I mean that was great, a great scene.
Speaker 5: I know the judge was really scared.
Speaker 3: Camille meets her daughter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, wasn't she the most beautiful little girl you've ever
Speaker 5: seen in your life?
Speaker 1: So beautiful? But I looked her up. She's working, she's like.
Speaker 2: She was a ladybird because yeah, yeah, when I was rewatching,
Speaker 2: I was like.
Speaker 3: I know this girl. Yeah she's a beauty. She's Israeli.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's beautiful and she's so talented. Yeah the courtroom
Speaker 5: there's two things. One I remember learning. So I know
Speaker 5: I said a couple of times that I was so
Speaker 5: new still in my career and I was learning just
Speaker 5: how things go. And so they were doing Kevin Alejandro's coverage.
Speaker 5: So Kevin is the one who it was actually him,
Speaker 5: he who impregnated me during the right during it he
Speaker 5: so it was our child. And when he was on
Speaker 5: the stand, the camera was like not even remotely, when
Speaker 5: I tell you, it was fully on Kevin. Like, I
Speaker 5: don't know what I was thinking, but for some reason,
Speaker 5: I thought I had to be at my fullest emotional
Speaker 5: in that scene. So I was doing all of my
Speaker 5: lines and everything as if the camera was on me,
Speaker 5: which you don't have to be at full emotion when
Speaker 5: the camera's not on you. And I'm like weeping for
Speaker 5: hours and hours and the camera was only on Kevin.
Speaker 2: Wait, but how do you even weep for hours? Not
Speaker 2: to change the subject fully, but like how do you
Speaker 2: do it for hours?
Speaker 5: Well? You kind of you have to. And I think
Speaker 5: if if you lose yourself in the character, I mean,
Speaker 5: I bet you Kumille weeped for years years. Ours is
Speaker 5: probably nothing.
Speaker 2: So did anyone say anything to you as you were
Speaker 2: weeping off camera?
Speaker 5: No, Kevin, Elijandra was just like thank you so much,
Speaker 5: like you really, you know, because I didn't know that
Speaker 5: I could like just do the same but not have to.
Speaker 5: But in a way, I was glad because if it
Speaker 5: helped Kevin, that is great. Like, in a way, I'm
Speaker 5: kind of glad that I didn't even know, because you know,
Speaker 5: it allows you to like save it for when the
Speaker 5: camera turns around or something. But yeah, that was I
Speaker 5: learned about when the camera is completely facing another direction,
Speaker 5: it's not on you.
Speaker 3: But now you know, now you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: This other thing I remembered was when they take Kevin out,
Speaker 5: when he starts screaming and he confesses, like we did it,
Speaker 5: we did it. He said there was something that was
Speaker 5: not in the script, and he said, I'm sorry, Camille,
Speaker 5: I'm so sorry. And it like my heart broke into
Speaker 5: a million pieces because it wasn't in the script. But
Speaker 5: he was so good and he was so genuine in
Speaker 5: his commitment to the character or whatever his choices were.
Speaker 5: That it was. That moment was I thought was amazing
Speaker 5: because he it wasn't even in there.
Speaker 3: Did you watch the episode?
Speaker 5: I did watch the episode when.
Speaker 2: It came out, Like, like, were you like friends, family
Speaker 2: come over?
Speaker 3: Were you like I have to watch this by myself?
Speaker 5: I mean I went to a friend's house but I
Speaker 5: remember thinking like, oh, I didn't do this, This didn't
Speaker 5: like I remember not you know, kind of doing that
Speaker 5: thing of where you you know. But then later I
Speaker 5: had seen it you know again like over the years,
Speaker 5: and you know, I'm really happy with it, and I
Speaker 5: always am probably going to think it's a special episode.
Speaker 5: I just felt Also it was written, you know, Chris
Speaker 5: Broncato was the writer, and it was written so deeply,
Speaker 5: like so it just stood out to me as almost
Speaker 5: something that would be like on streaming for cable, you know,
Speaker 5: it was it was really I don't know, maybe I'm
Speaker 5: biased because.
Speaker 3: I got to be in it.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Do you get texts because you know, as the beew
Speaker 2: reruns all the time, Like, do you get hollered at
Speaker 2: kind of sporadically?
Speaker 5: I do. It's like it's like the only thing people
Speaker 5: have like pretty much ever seen me.
Speaker 1: Well speaking, yeah, like other stuff, Well, you've done like
Speaker 1: a lot of like other procedurals and stuff, right, You've
Speaker 1: done like Chicago at like a different procedurals.
Speaker 3: Well we had a fun game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all you needed help Grey's Anatomy or Chicago Med.
Speaker 3: Which doctors would you want?
Speaker 5: Oh? Probably Grey's Anatomy. I mean, it's a hard decision.
Speaker 5: They were both great, but yeah, I think Gray's Anatomics.
Speaker 5: Well I think I got my life saved on both.
Speaker 3: Oh well that's good.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, so can you talk to us about ren Field.
Speaker 1: That's like this hot new movie that's coming out, Like,
Speaker 1: my husband is a big Dracula guy, so excited to
Speaker 1: see it. And you're I think you're Are you in
Speaker 1: a scene with my friend Brandon Scott Jones.
Speaker 5: I am in several scenes with Brandon Boas.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole cast seems so fun. Tell us about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great cast. I mean I probably laughed
Speaker 5: more on that set than ever, like in any job.
Speaker 5: I mean, it was just so everybody was really funny
Speaker 5: and fun and it was just a good vibe and
Speaker 5: a lot of just like really silly people who just
Speaker 5: like And we shot overnight most of the time, so
Speaker 5: there was some like delirium, but like overnight funny where
Speaker 5: you're so tired, and I mean, I hope, I hope
Speaker 5: it turns out great. Everything I saw was you know,
Speaker 5: just like really strong actors. And I've done adr a
Speaker 5: few times, like I you know, just did it a
Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago again, and so I've seen a
Speaker 5: little bit of it.
Speaker 3: And it looks what is it coming out? Do you know?
Speaker 5: Yes? It comes out on April fourteenth.
Speaker 1: Everybody goes see Renfield. I can't wait to see you
Speaker 1: in it. How exciting? And who do you play?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: What do you play? Are you spooky?
Speaker 5: I don't know per universal what I'm allowed to say,
Speaker 5: but I know what's been publicly stated, which is that.
Speaker 5: So my character's name is Caitlin, and I play a
Speaker 5: member of a support group for people in abusive relationships. Okay, wow,
Speaker 5: I probably can't elaborate.
Speaker 3: Don't tell us anymore. But I have to get to
Speaker 3: go to the premiere and have fun.
Speaker 1: And you can bring in some of your SVU, your
Speaker 1: SVU skills into that role. I'm sure you did. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Speaker 5: Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1: She was so nice. I can't believe this is coming
Speaker 1: out so.
Speaker 3: Close to her movie. Everybody.
Speaker 1: I know my husband's definitely going to go see Renfield.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be too bloody for me. Even
Speaker 1: what we do in the shadows, like fake bloody, is
Speaker 1: like too gross for me.
Speaker 3: Oh, I forgot to tell you.
Speaker 1: I watched M threegan in first class and I loved it.
Speaker 3: It's funny, it's great. I watched it again. It was great.
Speaker 3: It was really fun.
Speaker 2: Wait, Casey, but you know what, her best friend Micah
Speaker 2: is also a mean girl.
Speaker 4: She's also evil.
Speaker 3: Yes, she also just.
Speaker 2: Wants to be on TV and didn't like that guy
Speaker 2: at all and is trying to steal another girl's man.
Speaker 3: This is our.
Speaker 1: Post mortem for the episode as more Love is Blind.
Speaker 1: We just can't stop talking about it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's exciting for Casey and I to connect. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Casey's the co host.
Speaker 1: There should be a time where, like I can't make
Speaker 1: it and you guys, instead of rescheduling, it's just Lisa
Speaker 1: and Casey host together. That would be so funny. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this episode is wild. I consider this like a classic one.
Speaker 1: I always remember the like a ruiner like branding all
Speaker 1: that stuff in this episode. So but I'm also glad
Speaker 1: that there's weird little bit of a happy ending who buys.
Speaker 2: Vacuums, you know what I mean. It's like get a
Speaker 2: Dice Center bus.
Speaker 1: But it's from the episodes older so like, I guess,
Speaker 1: but why does this building thing someone's getting a vacuum.
Speaker 1: I guess it's different people, different buildings, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: get back attack.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. It's so the best vacuum you can buy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess if you guys are I think
Speaker 1: we need to stop with all the guys that are
Speaker 1: just like helping out while their friends.
Speaker 3: Right, people, you guys need to stop. You're just as guilty.
Speaker 1: You all need to fucking step up and say let's
Speaker 1: not do this and maybe use some physical force to
Speaker 1: stop this from happening. Because that's both stories, the episode
Speaker 1: and the true But fuck man, the real story was
Speaker 1: so sad. Anyway, should we move on to this week's
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 3: A real quick post mortem? This is our quickest ever.
Speaker 1: I know this is a fast, little, fast, little one,
Speaker 1: but who knows how long our episode was.
Speaker 2: Also, if you have icy blue eyes, be careful where
Speaker 2: you jiz, because an icy blue eyed daughter will come out, yes,
Speaker 2: out your ass, and.
Speaker 1: They don't even need DNA, they just match those eyes.
Speaker 1: So let's move on to what would mister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we point you guys
Speaker 1: to a resource that can help flesh out a little
Speaker 1: bit more of what we talked about in today's episode,
Speaker 1: But today I wanted to just direct you guy to
Speaker 1: the Fresh Air Fund, which is the camp that the
Speaker 1: camp that Camille went to is based on. Obviously what
Speaker 1: happened to her was not good at that camp, but
Speaker 1: in real life, the Fresh Air Fund is a life changing,
Speaker 1: free summer experience. It was founded in eighteen seventy seven.
Speaker 1: It's the Sleepwoy camps or in New York's Mid Hudson
Speaker 1: Valley and they serve eight to fifteen year olds that
Speaker 1: attend school in New York City. And as you all know,
Speaker 1: camp is huge for me, and it's a hugely life
Speaker 1: changing and transformative experience, and I just love that this
Speaker 1: organization helps give that to kids who live in this
Speaker 1: major urban area and might not otherwise have the chance.
Speaker 1: So if you'd like to donate or learn more about it,
Speaker 1: go to fresh air dot org. And that's fresh air
Speaker 1: dot org. And that will as always be on our highlights.
Speaker 1: It will be in our stories on the day of
Speaker 1: the show release, and then it will be in our
Speaker 1: WWSPD two highlights.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much with that, we know how much
Speaker 3: you love camp.
Speaker 2: And next week we will be doing Inheritance and that's
Speaker 2: season three, episode eight, So rewind your times and hit up.
Speaker 2: You're Hulu and Peacock, and thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: We appreciate and are obsessed with all of you. Bye, guys,
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henrika Perski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at
Speaker 1: Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun Dun