1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Hello. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast show 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: where we explore some of the big money issues in 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: the world of sports on Michael Barr, I'm Scott Town 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: and guests who's also here in the studio Kim Passing 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: our own Bloomberg Hello. Hello, how you doing. I'm hyped 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: for this. Now. Let's go you because you wrote the 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: story about Courtside Ventures and you're very familiar with this, 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: and we have guests that's connected all to that. Uh 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Vasso Kilcarney. He is the founding partner of court Side Ventures. 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Also John Burbank, executive board member and part owner. Uh. 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: He is with also the founder and chief investment officer 12 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: of Passport Capital. And there's this little team that's out 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: there on the West called the Golden State Warriors. John Vasso, 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thanks for having too. 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with you if I can, John, and 16 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: let's talk about first, how did you get involved with 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Courtside Ventures. I involved, I think and that Vasto maybe 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: five five years ago, um, four or five years ago 19 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: he was raising a fund anything related to sports, was 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, not many funds related to sports. Um, he 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: was a passionate a fan as I've ever met. He 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: was an entrepreneur, had been an entrepreneur, He had good backing, 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: and I liked his chances. I really like venture bets 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: that are industry specific and domain specific, and the combination 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: UH really appealed to me. So Vast, let's bring you 26 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: into this conversation. You said, or John said, he met 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: you five years ago. You've gotten a couple of funds together. 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: The most recent is the one million dollar fund three. 29 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: What has the appetite been like for investing in sports 30 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: since you launched her first fund UH several years ago? 31 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: Shame dramatically. I mean, I always tell when I was. 32 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: When I was a founder almost fourteen years ago, and 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: I was running a sports analytics start up, there was 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: almost no funding available whatsoever for sports. I ended up 35 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 1: having to raise all my money from random Wall Street 36 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: angels and eventually from owners of pro sports teams who 37 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: understood the value of what we were doing. But traditional 38 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: vcs had zero interest in any of it. And when 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: we launched in with fund one, it was really to 40 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: prove to people that you could generate venture returns in sports. 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: And we're lucky enough to be the first money into 42 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: a couple of deals company called stock X and the 43 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: company called the Athletic and those two companies. Basically, I 44 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: think we're able to prove to the world that in 45 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: and around the world of sports there are big opportunities 46 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: and there are big exits that can happen UM. And 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: so going into fund too fundraising was a little bit 48 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: easier UM, but it was also the middle of COVID, 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: so UH it was not as easy as it should 50 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: have been. And then going into fund three, UM, there 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: was a ton of appetite. There was more than we expected. 52 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: We ended up with almost ten different pro sports team 53 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: owners across the major sports league here as well as 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: in Europe. But then more importantly a number of corporate 55 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: at strategic corporate UH companies like Big Sporting Goods, UM, Techno, 56 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: jim Out in Europe, Dream Sports in India. There are 57 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: a number of these companies that have ties to UH 58 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: the world of sports and fitness and gaming. That that 59 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: all came into b LPs and our fund. Kim, like 60 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: I said, you wrote a story about courtside Ventures, which 61 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, educated guys like me who sit on a 62 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: park bench on a Thursday trying to figure everything out, 63 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: what did you discover about this? Well, that's the lastly spoke. 64 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: You told me that investors would run for the hills 65 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: when they heard the words sports right like years ago. Dude, 66 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: we're just I'm out, goodbye, get out of my office. 67 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: But you raised a hundred million from investors for this 68 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: this new funds. It's all it's looking at back sports startups. 69 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: And I also recently broke some news that that Sapphire Sport, 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: the sports arm of Sapphire Ventures, has raised one one 71 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: as well for their own fund. Talking to them, they 72 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: congratulated you and they said your combined raises are proof 73 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: that this is a sector that investors are starting to 74 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: take more seriously. Like, have things really changed that much? Oh? Totally, 75 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: there's no question. I mean, I don't think that ten 76 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: years ago either of our funds would have been able 77 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: to raise uh this kind of capital to invest in 78 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: the sector. Um. But I think a lot of that 79 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: has come down to the redefinition of the word sports 80 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: back back again, back when I was a founder, the 81 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: definition of investing in sports meant and you've got a 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: physical product or a software product that you're gonna sell 83 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: the teams or athletes. Um. I think sports is significantly 84 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: broader than that. You've also had massive changes in regulation 85 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: over the past five years with task by repeals in 86 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: the United States which has opened up offer communities to 87 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: invest in real money gaming sports betting both here and global. 88 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean that's a big part of what we do 89 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: is we look across the world for UH, for companies 90 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: in our sectors, specifically in the real money gaming space, UH, 91 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: looking to see what happened the United States five years 92 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: ago with the change in regulations, saying where else in 93 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: the world are we seeing large opportunities for big populations 94 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: that have high smartphone proliferation, a lot of sports fans, 95 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: but sports betting has not yet become legalized, and can 96 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: we go place an early bet on a daily fantasy 97 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: player there in the hopes that when sports betting does 98 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: get regulated and their licenses to be given out, our 99 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: companies are in pole position to get those licenses. So 100 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: those are the types of massive opportunities that are at 101 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: play here UM and I think that's why when when 102 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: when the word sports has become redefined to be much 103 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: broader than products that you're going to sell to a 104 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: team or an athlete. Now, the LPs are excited it, 105 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: and now the venture community is excited about what we're doing. 106 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: And so I expect that while there are a number 107 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: of sports specific funds like US and Sapphire and three 108 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: or four others, you're also going to start to see 109 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: the generalist funds at the later stages also getting involved 110 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: in our companies. And that's what we've seen. If you 111 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: look at who's back the athletic and their their later rounds, 112 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: who backstock X in the later rounds, it wasn't sports 113 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: specific funds, it was massive generalist funds that we're coming 114 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: in after the fact. So we look at our job 115 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 1: as we look at things in the seed very early 116 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: stages and back these great founders and then you know, 117 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: we're going to hand them after the big voice. Yeah, John, 118 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: let's bring you back in this conversation as well, because 119 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: as a part owner of the Golden State Warriors, you 120 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: are one of the ways that traditionally people might invest 121 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: in sports. But as Bosso made clear, that asset class 122 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: has expanded to something more than any of us could 123 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: have imagined. When you look around the world, across geographies 124 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: and across different sports, what do you see as offering 125 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: some value? Uh? That that's still in the early stage 126 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: where you can get in at a point before everything's 127 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: kind of blown up. The valuations have gotten to points 128 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: where you might describe it as publicious. Right, Well, it's 129 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: only been the last few years that institutional capitals as 130 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: organized itself to invest in teams UM and UH, so 131 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: that's significant. I think it's one of those things where 132 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: everybody doubted it UM as an investment high investment return 133 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: instead of like a cychnical UM you know, media driven 134 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: cychnical UM industry. So for the most part, people were wrong. 135 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: And I think it's kind of like we we probably 136 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: didn't expect that luxury brands would become so profitable to 137 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: make create some of the richest men in the world. 138 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: I think. I think sports are are some combination of 139 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: luxury brands, because this is the best human capital in 140 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: the world, you know, doing these different sports and UH 141 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: and consumer and and and and lower consumer brands as well. 142 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: So I think one of the thing is you sports 143 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: do not innovate very much themselves. They need innovation to 144 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: come from outside. So with the with the with the 145 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: change and development of tech, and we needed outside UH 146 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: companies to create UM to expand I would say, um, 147 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, connectivity, new products, new services, etcetera. UM. And 148 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: also we've seen, um, you know, the cable change where 149 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: sports is absolutely essential and more and more highly valued. Uh, 150 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: and everything else you know can be streamed and delayed. 151 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: I think sports generally was just constantly underrated. Now in 152 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: the last year year and a half, sports teams have 153 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: done as well as any other asset in the world. 154 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: I would say, UM, and it's been a big surprise. John. 155 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,479 Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you, because you are a minority 156 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: owner of the Golden State Warriors, are you shocked by 157 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: the valuations that have just went through with the roof. 158 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you could buy an NBA team about twentysomething 159 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: years ago and it seemed like a reasonable price. Now, Uh, 160 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: you know I gotta put up my my two first 161 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: children and and everything beyond to buy a team. What 162 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: Why has it exploded like this? Well, a lot of 163 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: things got fixed. UM invested. I invested in UM. With 164 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: the change of ownership, the collective bargaining agreement got changed 165 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: with the players were getting the owners on only forty three. 166 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: I figured it was gonna get UM after the crisis, 167 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: which it did. I think UM basketball and soccer or 168 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: global football are really the two sports that are global 169 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: in nature. And so the bet on that was the 170 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: right bet um you had, Um you had the just 171 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: general rise of with prosperity, people are willing to commit 172 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: more and more capital to experiences, UM, you know, and 173 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: so that's been a that's been a big change. UM. 174 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: I'd say, you know, ultimately, I think it's a it's 175 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: a there's something like a tribal and essential for people 176 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: to get together and watch, like speculate, watch follow and 177 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: see this fast feedback UH set of results. When you 178 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: think about it other than business, UM, sports you know, 179 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: is the is the thing that offers you this ongoing, 180 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,599 Speaker 1: very fast feedback loop, which I think is really compelling. 181 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: And the fact that it's done regionally and and people 182 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: collectively follow this up has been underrated in terms of 183 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: economic terms. But I think as long as the world 184 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: gets more and more prosperous, the values of sports teams 185 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: are going to keep rising. And I think the the 186 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: eccentric UH companies and other services and products which are 187 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: trying to keep rising and become more more and Kim, 188 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: we've talked about this about the rising values and you know, 189 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: you look in. You say, Jinkie Scooby doo, what how 190 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: how high can it go? Yeah? And are we going 191 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: to keep seeing these valuations rise to the point where 192 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: you need institutional investors to get involved in these teams. 193 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: There's a set amount of really, really really rich people 194 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: out there who are willing to put six seven eight 195 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: billion dollars down to buy a sports team. Uh So, John, 196 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: do you think that a league like the NFL, for example, 197 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: we'll have to inevitably allow institutional investors they're into the league. 198 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: I think it's it's I think it's I think for 199 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: these leagues, they're gonna they're they're they're creeping into it. 200 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: You know, the fact that COVID happened helped the NBA 201 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: co miss NBA to allow the Warriors to be the 202 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: first team to have priv ectily from Martos come in 203 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: and invest um. I think, uh, you know, these are 204 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: monopolies essentially, so I think that they're gonna take the 205 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: time of it. But really it makes sense. You know, 206 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: the the all the all the American sports teams, there's 207 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: a control owner, uh and everyone else is essentially a 208 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: limited partner UM, and so to eventually have UM private 209 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: equity firms be institutional. Minority owners is not should not 210 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: be a controversial thing, but I think is we're going 211 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: to creep into it. It is going to be essential 212 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: for liquidity provision to the the owners investors in all 213 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: these teams, and it will help in other ways because 214 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, lots of teams are not the best, are 215 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: not that well managed UM and I think the more 216 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: institutionalization of sports, the better management. I think practices will 217 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: come into for some for some teams and other combinations 218 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: of teams together. That's interesting because that's a I mean 219 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 1: talk about a small pool of people who can do that. 220 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: There aren't that many people who might be able to 221 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: walk into a sports teaman and turn things around real 222 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: organize the management of that. If there's going to be 223 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: more private act reforms, that will be minority owners and 224 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: coming into kind of oversee the restructuring. How do you 225 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: see this chaking out in in five years and ten years, 226 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: John Well? In the Premier League, you're seeing Americans, you know, 227 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: come in and make big changes UM and it's becoming 228 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: more and more essential to have capital and sophistication as 229 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: you as you watch that league change and watch global 230 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: football change. UM in American sports where there's no relegation. Um, 231 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: you have the phenomenon where an owner doesn't have to 232 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: make any changes or do anything and they make a 233 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: lot of money. Um, you know, coasting with the general 234 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: value creation of the monopoly of the league. UM. That's 235 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: probably the biggest challenge for the American sports is to 236 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: make the regular season relevant and force competition, you know, 237 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: and better practices to happen. With the Warriors, you know, 238 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,359 Speaker 1: we had probably the best set of investors ever assembled. 239 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: You had a Silicon Valley culture. You had a desire 240 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: to have the best management in the front office, which 241 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: is really essential to having uh, you know, the high 242 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: quality team. Um. But you know, so the downside has 243 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: not been There hasn't been any downside for American sports owners. UM. 244 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: I think having institutional owners who want a return and 245 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: who can actually have confidence and bring it to teams 246 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: is a good thing. And that's you. I'd like to 247 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: ask you, because this is where extreme court side ventures 248 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: comes in, because you guys build the long term partnerships 249 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: with management. In other words, it's like you build the partnerships, 250 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, you tell them it's like, hey, why don't 251 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: you go to so Winsow's house because he makes a 252 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: good cake or something like that, and then they become 253 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: bonded and then that's when everything begins to grow. Or 254 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: am I oversimplifying that we are? We are definitely in 255 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: a human capital business in many ways similar to sports, 256 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: and we at least at there's the levels that which 257 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: we invest where it's it's two founders and a and 258 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: an idea and a basement. You know, there's not much 259 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: to go on other than do we believe that these 260 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: are the founders who are gonna kick down doors and 261 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: run through walls for the next ten years? And when 262 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: get when times get tough, are are they gonna see 263 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: it through? Or are they gonna quit? And and and 264 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: in many ways, it's not that this similar from from sports, 265 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: and I think and and who you draft and who 266 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: you trade for. It's very much about yes, there's some 267 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: raw potential there, but are these the types of people 268 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: that that can work together and build teams and see 269 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: something through? And um, you know, for us, there's there's 270 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: two things that we look at above everything else. It's 271 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: the quality of the founders, and it's whether or not 272 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: the market opportunity is large enough. There's a lot of 273 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: great founders out there who are building great companies that 274 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: are just not big enough for venture returns. And that 275 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's a bad business. The founders, frankly should 276 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: definitely continue down that road not raise a lot of 277 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: capital and have a great personal exit. But that's not 278 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: the business that we're in in order to be able 279 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: to generate the returns we need to for our investors. 280 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: And so it's uh, it's very much looking at people 281 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: and looking at size of markets and believing in both 282 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: of those things. For us, you know, we've been dancing 283 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: around this, so I'm just going to bring it up now. 284 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: Um Kimbassing, I think you're not in tears exactly, but 285 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: it's been a rough day for you because we learned 286 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: that Tom Brady is retiring again from from your Tampa 287 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: Bay years. He had he had to at some point, 288 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: right he's forty, he's forty five years old. It's funny 289 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: because I was looking back at I wrote about his 290 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: retirement the last time he retired a year ago and 291 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: explained like here's what Tom Brady's gonna do. And he's done, 292 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: and he hangs up his cleats. He's going to work 293 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: on his businesses. You know, he's got autograph, he's got 294 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: the Fox gig for the world's most highly paid broadcaster. 295 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: I believe he's gonna be right, Yes, exactly, like he's 296 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: to do all that. And then he also had an 297 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: investment in ft X. I don't think he's gonna do 298 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: that anymore. So looking back on that, most of it's 299 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: still relevance. I'm assuming he's just going to do these things. 300 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: But you know, the fear now for me is that 301 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are going to be bad for 302 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: several decades. Listen, I can help you with that. I'm 303 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: alliance fan. So let me let me sit down and 304 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: talk to you for a second. You just believe in them. 305 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: You believe. You think the next season, you gotta think 306 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: they're going to have a winning season. The next season 307 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: can be bitter like Michael Barr every year two that's 308 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,959 Speaker 1: at two and eight, You're like, they're they're gonna win 309 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: out this time. They got this. How are you thinking 310 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: about this, especially as you talk to people in your 311 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: world about Tom Brady and looking ahead, Is he going 312 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: to become a pe investor like every other former NFL quarterback. 313 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: I think he's already in a bunch of different things 314 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: and will stay generally busy, especially if he if he 315 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: goes through with that that broadcasting deal right as the 316 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: world's most well paid broadcaster. Um, he's gonna be He's 317 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: gonna be there all the time. And before we wrapped 318 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: this up, So that's what I'm gonna ask you. Are 319 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: you gonna call up Tom Brady? It's like, hey, listen, 320 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: uh dude, we got to talk. I mean, the greatest 321 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: basketball player of all time retired three times, so I 322 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't think Tom definitely calling it quick. He's got one 323 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: more retirement ahead of him if he wants to be 324 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: on the same level of Michael Jordan's. So I'm gonna 325 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: John Burbank, executive board member, part owner of the Golden 326 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: State Warriors, Vast Sup cluck Kearney, founding partner of court 327 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: Side Ventures and our own Bean's Canvassing. He has written 328 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: stories about Courtside Ventures. Everybody, thank you all so much 329 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We 330 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: really do appreciate it. Thanks for having us. This has 331 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. We explore some 332 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: of the big money issues in the world of Sports. 333 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: We miss you, Damien SaaS Our. I'm Michael Barr. You 334 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: can follow me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports and 335 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: tweet me at Scarlet Food. I know you got something 336 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: out there at Kemas. Wait spell it for us please. 337 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: I am B H A S I N. Hey. You 338 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: know you can download this show every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. 339 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: Download this show wherever you get your podcasts.