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Speaker 1: Body doats, but Joseph's gotten more A long long time ago.

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Speaker 1: When I was a little boy, there were certain cultural

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Speaker 1: icons that captured my attention. Let's see who were some

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Speaker 1: of them. Oh, I know, I liked Muhammad Ali because

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Speaker 1: he was such a bombastic kind of personality. I liked

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Speaker 1: because he's so rare, you know, back then he would

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Speaker 1: get in front of the camera and he would say things,

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Speaker 1: and he could make things up, you know, quote quote

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Speaker 1: homemade poetry if you will on the fly. I loved

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Speaker 1: Evil can Eevil As a little boy. I had a

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Speaker 1: little Evil can Evil toy, you know that you'd wind

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Speaker 1: up and you could jump boxes with it and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And I loved loved ABC wide

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Speaker 1: Wide World of Sports watching him jump over cars. And

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Speaker 1: of course subsequently I think at caesar Palace, Caesar's Palace

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Speaker 1: broke every bone in his body when he jumped over

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Speaker 1: that fountain. If you ever go to Vegas, check out

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Speaker 1: the side of that fountain. I don't know how he

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Speaker 1: did it. And then of course, you know snacker of

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Speaker 1: a Canyon, don't forget about that. That wasn't exactly a

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Speaker 1: brilliant move, but it's something that stands out in your mind.

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Speaker 1: Another cultural icon in this former little boy's mind was

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Speaker 1: probably beauf Pusser. And the reason it was so cool

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Speaker 1: is that there was a movie that, of course I

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Speaker 1: was too young to go and see because of the

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Speaker 1: level of violence. But you knew about him. You heard

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Speaker 1: about him, You heard about walking tall, you heard that

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Speaker 1: he carried this massive stick that he would walk in

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Speaker 1: and he'd bust up bad guys. He'd run the ne'er

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Speaker 1: do wells out of the county. Of course, larger than life.

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Speaker 1: Joe Don Baker played him on the screen. But you

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Speaker 1: know what, sometimes, sometimes, just like in Hollywood, when you

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Speaker 1: go behind those facades that are on the back lots,

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Speaker 1: you realize that they're empty, and many times they're filled

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Speaker 1: with garbage and trash. You don't see it on the outside,

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Speaker 1: but dig deep enough and you'll see it. Today, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to discuss a possible domestic homicide that involves Beford Puster,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to explore this a little bit and

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Speaker 1: probably put an end to those dreams that I had

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Speaker 1: as a little boy that there were real heroes out there,

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Speaker 1: at least those that Hollywood told me to believe. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags. You know, Dave,

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Speaker 1: one of the myriad of reasons, just one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons that I just like Hollywood nowadays is that their

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Speaker 1: brain seem to be so infantile that they're incapable of

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Speaker 1: creating new content. I absolutely despise remakes. There are very

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Speaker 1: few that are out there that are worth my time viewing.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'll sit there and I'll see some movie

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Speaker 1: that's being remade that was fantastic and it's an original form,

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Speaker 1: and you're sitting there thinking, why why are you going

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Speaker 1: to redo this? And you know, just a couple of

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Speaker 1: years back, we had Dwayne the Rock Johnson that came

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Speaker 1: in and remade Walking. Wait a minute, the movie.

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Speaker 2: You know what's funny about that? What you just said

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Speaker 2: cracks me up.

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Speaker 1: What's up?

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Speaker 2: Is it just a few years ago?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Twenty one years ago? That movie was made two fars

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Speaker 2: Holy smokes. Yeah, well, I got another question for you

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Speaker 2: about that. Then go ahead.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering light of this recent evidence, I wonder Dwayne

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Speaker 1: the Rock Johnson is signing up to do a sequel. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, what do you think?

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Speaker 2: I will tell you it's interesting because that Walking Tall

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Speaker 2: that he did it was It was not a remake,

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Speaker 2: It was not a retelling of the It was just

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Speaker 2: utilizing an image from back in the day, the big

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Speaker 2: stick and Walking Tall and everything else was you know,

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Speaker 2: it had nothing to do. It was all brought to

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Speaker 2: a contemporary look at things. It had nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with what the original story was, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: Buford Pusser, Okay, the original Walking Tall movie. And you

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Speaker 2: mentioned Joe Don Baker, I was like, I remember bos Vincent. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because they did a Walking Tall TV show in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one and it didn't last long. And I always

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Speaker 2: thought the reason it didn't really work is because it

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Speaker 2: wasn't based in truth. I always thought there was something

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Speaker 2: wrong about the story of Buford Pusser, And as I

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Speaker 2: got older, I thought, maybe I have a weird feeling

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Speaker 2: about it because he was so young when he became

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Speaker 2: the sheriff. He was the youngest sheriff in the United

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Speaker 2: States of America in the early sixties when he first

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Speaker 2: became sheriff there in mcneer County, right and anyway.

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Speaker 1: Just up the road in Tennessee from where we are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I look at this and the things that

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Speaker 2: I know now and I look back, and most of

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Speaker 2: the people that were made into heroes were not heroic

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Speaker 2: in life. They were heroic in the stories that were

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Speaker 2: told about them, but they were not heroes in their

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Speaker 2: personal life. While and I don't think I don't like

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Speaker 2: seeing these so called heroes torn down at all, but

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Speaker 2: I liked the truth to have its day, And I

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Speaker 2: wonder where was the truth when this happened, because people

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Speaker 2: knew then you realize what we're about to talk about

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Speaker 2: was common knowledge at the time the BS was flying.

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Speaker 2: There were people that at least or maybe you know what,

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Speaker 2: if it wasn't then they're claiming it was. That.

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Speaker 1: That's why you got to take a lot of these

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Speaker 1: things with a grain of salt. There's only like, I

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Speaker 1: have very few heroes that I actually believe in now.

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Speaker 1: I think like one that stands out in mind is

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Speaker 1: probably Audie Murphy that I love because he never sought

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Speaker 1: out the glory that landed upon him, and he was

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Speaker 1: just one of these people that just took took the

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Speaker 1: bull by the horns and he didn't care, and of

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Speaker 1: course he paid a price for it later on in life,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he was he had terrible problem

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Speaker 1: with alcoholism, and you know, just all these things. You

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Speaker 1: know that he bore the burden of that. People didn't understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, shell shock and all that. For Pussor was

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Speaker 1: not that person. He was no Audie Murphy. There's heroes.

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Speaker 1: I take exception with people too. They throw that term

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Speaker 1: around a lot. You hear it a lot. Oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you're so brave your hero. No you're not. No, you're not.

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Speaker 1: There are real heroes out there, and it's really sad.

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Speaker 1: I think that that, you know that that Buford Pusser

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Speaker 1: occupies that space where they you know, they have so

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Speaker 1: idolized him to the point where he, for many years

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Speaker 1: was viewed as a hero. And now with these stories

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Speaker 1: that have come to light in the wake of new

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Speaker 1: information that has come about as a result of of

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Speaker 1: his of his journey, if you will, his matrimonial journey

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Speaker 1: and things that they suspected that he was involved in.

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Speaker 1: Now you know, we view things in a different light

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Speaker 1: relative to him. You know, we heard these tales of

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Speaker 1: the Dixie Mafia, you know, for years and years, and

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Speaker 1: how it was integrated into a lot of the underworld stuff.

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Speaker 1: And of course I think they try to pull that

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Speaker 1: narrative in with these activities that were going on in

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Speaker 1: this county where he was, you know, the sheriff of

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Speaker 1: and there's not really a lot there a lot of

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Speaker 1: meat on the bone from an evidentiary standpoint, that that

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Speaker 1: was the case, I think, And so you know, it

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Speaker 1: makes you question everything else. And here's really the thing

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Speaker 1: is that, as we always say, the science, the science

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Speaker 1: in any case is not going to lie. And many

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Speaker 1: people don't anticipate that there is going to be a

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Speaker 1: telling of the truth down the line. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you, if an individual happens to

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Speaker 1: be I don't know, let's say, exhumed the dead in fact,

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Speaker 1: do tell tales, Brother Dave. I'm curious about this. You know.

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Speaker 1: I felt like that, plus, the story had been essentially

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Speaker 1: I don't know, put to bed for decades now, and

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Speaker 1: you know, and I know the people up there, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of scrap out a living. You know, they have

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Speaker 1: a museum up there. I think that kind of honors

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Speaker 1: his memory. And yeah, you know, there's all manner of

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Speaker 1: things that go on, and you know that's kind of

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Speaker 1: been a cottage industry. I guess now I kind of

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Speaker 1: feel sorry for the people now, you know, retrospectively.

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Speaker 2: Well joke. When the story first broke that they were

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Speaker 2: filing a report on this, the website for the museum

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Speaker 2: was down and it was not open, you know, they

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Speaker 2: closed it for a few days, but I went to

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Speaker 2: it before taping. Today, the Beauford puss Er Home and

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Speaker 2: Museum is open. The I mean, the website is and

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Speaker 2: the first line right there in the middle credited with

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Speaker 2: Beauford Pusser, like his slogan or the theme that he

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Speaker 2: lived by, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who you are. I thought, how fitting

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Speaker 2: it is if they actually leave that on there and

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Speaker 2: now tell the real story based on information, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that would be a way to honor his

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Speaker 2: wife and maybe open up a real discussion about domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: You know, we just did a story the other day

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Speaker 2: domestic violence where young woman was allegedly thrown over the

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Speaker 2: twenty fourth balcony, you know, by her husband, who has

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Speaker 2: been convicted of domestic violence. Now, and yet at first

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Speaker 2: it I don't know what they're going to I still

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Speaker 2: don't know how that's going to be ruled because there

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Speaker 2: was so much damage, you know, pulverized. Well, in this case, Joe,

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Speaker 2: you have Beauford Pusser's story. And I'm calling it that

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Speaker 2: because even back when he first told it, there were

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Speaker 2: people that didn't buy it. It didn't make a lot

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Speaker 2: of sense. I mean, he claims that, you know, one

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Speaker 2: of the things they built the walking tall myth on

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Speaker 2: was that he was the guy who stood up to

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Speaker 2: you know, all these wrongdoers in the hills, and they

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Speaker 2: were trying to kill him. You know, he was trying

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Speaker 2: they were trying to assassinate him. They were trying to

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Speaker 2: you know, catch him and get him. And this happens,

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Speaker 2: what at three in the morning, and he says his

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Speaker 2: wife is going out on a call with who takes it? What?

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Speaker 2: What shrif? I don't know, would take their wife out

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Speaker 2: on a call at three o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I guess I think the

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Speaker 1: the mythology of the thing is kind of painted out

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Speaker 1: so that you know, she's also the hero wife or

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Speaker 1: something like that, and again mythologizing this to that point

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Speaker 1: where you know, she becomes essentially a prop Think about

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Speaker 1: that just for a second. In this story, I think Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: you know, viewed it that way. Certainly, how brave you know,

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Speaker 1: this brave, brave couple you know that are going to

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Speaker 1: sally forth into the darkness of night, you know, and

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Speaker 1: go out and he's going to run this call, a

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Speaker 1: potentially very violent call where not only that, he also

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Speaker 1: if you're to believe this, and it's one thing, if

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Speaker 1: you have a sheriff, okay, and this does happen. I've

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Speaker 1: actually seen this happen where there are crime scenes I've

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Speaker 1: rolled out on and you've got a high ranking official

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Speaker 1: that happened to be out at night with his wife, okay,

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Speaker 1: and they show up at a scene because that high

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Speaker 1: ranking official has been notified that something major has happened,

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Speaker 1: like if you've got a multiple homicide that's been committed.

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Speaker 1: This individual wants to go out there because they're the

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Speaker 1: face of the elected sheriff or it is the sheriff,

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Speaker 1: and their spouse would actually wait in the car. And

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Speaker 1: I've actually seen that because I've known their spouse is

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Speaker 1: you know, we go to parties and all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I might acknowledge by waving at them, I would

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Speaker 1: think I wouldn't want this to be my spouse. But

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about you know, you're going out to

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Speaker 1: the local fish house on Friday night and you happen

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Speaker 1: to get a call and you're going to know you're

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Speaker 1: talking about somebody that's like, yeah, I got this call,

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Speaker 1: and she's going to hop in the car to go

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Speaker 1: to this potentially very dangerous event with him and show up.

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Speaker 1: It seems first off, if you're truly a law enforcement

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Speaker 1: officer and there is no excuse for time, you can't say, well,

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Speaker 1: it was a different time back then. No, No, things

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Speaker 1: were dangerous. They were dangerous. There was violence, and you know,

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Speaker 1: in prior to this, he had allegedly experienced violence, he

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Speaker 1: was aware of the violence that was going on. So

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Speaker 1: you're telling me that the most precious person in your life, who,

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Speaker 1: by the way, should be your spouse first and then

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Speaker 1: your kids, you're going to put them in the car

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Speaker 1: with you and go out to this location and oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, there's a hit team out that's going

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Speaker 1: to take you out. Now, this sounds like something that's created,

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Speaker 1: created in I don't know, in somebody that's living on

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Speaker 1: a fantastic plane in their brain. And Hollywood bought into it,

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Speaker 1: and listen, you know, you know they put a lot

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Speaker 1: of butts in seats, didn't they in the theaters with

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Speaker 1: this thing? This thing was People don't realize what a like.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it was a cultural landmark,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the theaters were full to see this

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Speaker 1: movie and the book. The book also sold well.

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Speaker 2: Jay, you think about it, though, it was Hollywood didn't

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Speaker 2: create the story or they sold it. But the story

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Speaker 2: had been going on for six years before that nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy three movie came out. This happened in nineteen sixty seven. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So in nineteen sixty seven, he says that he's got

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Speaker 2: this domestic violence call he has to go on in

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Speaker 2: the middle of three thirty in the morning, and his

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Speaker 2: wife volunteers to go with him. He claims that a

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Speaker 2: car pulled up alongside his and again three thirty in

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Speaker 2: the morning on a domestic violence call, and somebody pulled

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Speaker 2: up alongside his car and fired several shots, killing Pauline

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Speaker 2: and injuring him, and what he claimed was an ambush

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Speaker 2: intended for him and was carried out by unknown assailants.

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Speaker 2: They were never caught. The sheriff was shot, Buford Puster

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Speaker 2: was shot. Wasn't he shot in the face? Yes, he

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Speaker 2: was yeah, he's and his wife is is dead. Now,

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Speaker 2: usually when you have somebody with a self inflicted gunshot wound,

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Speaker 2: it's usually not on the face, is it.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not, and that that's quite interesting. But it

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Speaker 1: was in such a location I think that well, first off,

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Speaker 1: if you if you see any of the post surgical

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Speaker 1: images of him, dudes disfigured. I mean, I got handed

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Speaker 1: to him, you boys, disfigured. You know, you can see

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Speaker 1: that it almost if this was if his face was

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Speaker 1: a candle, you'd say that it only burned on one

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Speaker 1: side because it's like drooping, you know, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: drooping and hanging down. He went through multiple reconstructive surgeries,

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Speaker 1: but interestingly enough, they didn't score, you know, they didn't

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Speaker 1: score a shot to the top of his noggin. The

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Speaker 1: scene is kind of it's peripheral. So if you're gonna look,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to try to sell it, if you're

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Speaker 1: going to act the part, you know it'd be one thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, you see these people in movies. It's always

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Speaker 1: people in movies, you know, the hero that get shot

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Speaker 1: on the shoulder or the thigh, But yet they can

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Speaker 1: put rounds on target at center mass with one thousand

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Speaker 1: yards with a handgun, you know, but I got to

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Speaker 1: hand it to him. He really sold it, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a survivable a survivable injury. And also

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Speaker 1: further consideration of this, of the case and his injuries,

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Speaker 1: the assessment of it is that it was determined that

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Speaker 1: this was not a distance injury, that this injury was

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Speaker 1: in fact close range. And I guess one of the

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Speaker 1: questions that I would have about this is going back

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Speaker 1: to surgical notes that would have had to have been

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Speaker 1: included in this particular case, what was the nature of

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Speaker 1: the injury, because this is a this is not a

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Speaker 1: case where back then there wasn't a lot of what

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Speaker 1: we refer to, and people don't know that this practice exists,

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Speaker 1: but it actually does. You know that there's actually a

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Speaker 1: practice called living forensic pathology where you can have Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I've been involved in well, I guess two or

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Speaker 1: three cases where we had other fatalities, but the forensic

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Speaker 1: pathologists actually went in and examined a living victim to

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Speaker 1: do an assessment of the of the subject at the hospital.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of fascinating stuff. You don't hear about it

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Speaker 1: a lot, but it does happen. In this case, you've

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Speaker 1: got you've got a guy that's going through multiple reconstructive surgery,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that that we do, let's

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Speaker 1: just say that he had died. All right, did you know,

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Speaker 1: Dave that that when we request medical records, let's just

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Speaker 1: say that somebody survives, they get into surgery, the forensic

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Speaker 1: pathologist will ask ask the investigators to compel the hospital

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Speaker 1: through a subpoena to get all of the surgery notes.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get all the surgery notes, and the surgeon

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Speaker 1: will actually, in pretty detailed detailed notes, will describe the

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Speaker 1: track of the wound because they're going to go in.

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Speaker 1: They're going to go in and they're actually they're actually

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Speaker 1: going to retrieve Let's say, for instance, you've got an

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Speaker 1: in dwelling round that's still in the body. They're going

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Speaker 1: to go in and retrieve that round if they can

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Speaker 1: get to it. Sometimes they can't. Got a great story,

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you sometime about that, but that's

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Speaker 1: for another episode. But anyway, they will go in and

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Speaker 1: they're going to track the wound, kind of like we

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Speaker 1: do in the Morgue. But their goal in tracking the

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Speaker 1: wound is to go in and first off, stop any

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Speaker 1: kind of hemorrhage that's in there. That's the first stage

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to do surgical repair. They want to

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Speaker 1: go in and those little you know, you can have

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Speaker 1: these kind of gross injuries that come up as a

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Speaker 1: result of the wound track where it's kind of cavitating,

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Speaker 1: you know, through the body, but you can have these

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Speaker 1: little micro micro injuries, you know, where you've clipped little

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Speaker 1: vessels that are you know, hemorrhaging into the soft tissue.

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Speaker 1: They've got to go in and stem that bleeding. So

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Speaker 1: they're tracking the wound kind of like we do, but

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Speaker 1: it's with a much finer point. So we would in

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Speaker 1: that part. Let's just say that under that circumstance person

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Speaker 1: died in the hospital, we would subpoena those notes, those

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Speaker 1: surgical notes, and we'd like to try to get them

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Speaker 1: before the autopsy. We go in and review what the

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Speaker 1: surgeon saw, and even though that surgeon saw it in place,

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Speaker 1: we're still going to do the autopsy. This is a

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Speaker 1: homicide that we're talking about, and we're going to note

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Speaker 1: all the surgical repairs maybe where they failed to pick

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Speaker 1: up on things, not as like a judgment, but just

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Speaker 1: to explain to death, you know, because there's a certain

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Speaker 1: area there's sometimes you can have these catastrophic injuries that

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Speaker 1: is as desperately as a surgeon might try to repair

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Speaker 1: them and stem bleeding and all this other tissue damage

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Speaker 1: where it's you know, it's compromising organ system's ability to

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Speaker 1: function and they're bleeding out and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's not enough that they can do, but the person

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Speaker 1: dies in a post surgical state. We want to know

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Speaker 1: all of that before we go in. But with with Pusser,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd like to know what did the surgeon

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Speaker 1: see and did they make any kind of notes relative

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Speaker 1: to any kind of powder deposition on the skin, because

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Speaker 1: if you're you know, retrospectively, there's this er physician who

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Speaker 1: is apparently also a de facto medical examiner up in

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Speaker 1: Tennessee that was called in to consult on the scene,

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Speaker 1: and he claims that he's gone in and reviewed, you know,

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Speaker 1: reviewed reviewed to stuff, and he could tell that this

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Speaker 1: was actually as actually an injury that was sustained at

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Speaker 1: a close range to Pusser, and that there's evidence that

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Speaker 1: this round was potentially self inflicted. Dave as opposed to

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Speaker 1: something because what's the scenario again with this. They're saying

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Speaker 1: that he claims that people pulled up alongside of them

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Speaker 1: and began to fire into the vehicle that they're riding in.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out that that doesn't seem like that's

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Speaker 1: you know, that dog's gone.

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Speaker 2: Well, you got a little problem with blood spatter on

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Speaker 2: the hood. That's a little problem. And there were other

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Speaker 2: problems because the injury suffered by Pauline did not match

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Speaker 2: his story. And the thing is, Joe, I keep going

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Speaker 2: back to this, but they knew it at the time.

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Speaker 2: You already have the problem with the evidence at the

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Speaker 2: scene not matching his story, and they knew that then.

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Speaker 2: They knew that in nineteen sixty seven. But what was

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Speaker 2: the reason for digging up his wife? Because you've explained

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Speaker 2: to me that that is one big problem. It's not

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Speaker 2: something that judges liked to do to It is rest

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Speaker 2: in peace, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they take that very seriously. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. What I think the impetus behind this is

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Speaker 1: not the FBI, but the TBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation,

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Speaker 1: and in an organization I've always been really impressed with over

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Speaker 1: the years and their thoroughness. Uh, those folks don't get

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Speaker 1: paid a lot of money, but they they work with

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Speaker 1: what they have and they're really tenacious the ones that

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Speaker 1: I've come across. And there's great stories about some of

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Speaker 1: the cases that that TBI has worked on over the years,

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Speaker 1: and they do have a cold case squad. Dave this

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Speaker 1: case now, listen to me. This is kind of fascinating.

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Speaker 1: This case is still a cold case. Just let that

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Speaker 1: sink in. You know, this is still a cold case.

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Speaker 1: This is an unsolved, an unsolved violent assault case. Also, oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, we've got a woman that's homicide victim,

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Speaker 1: and we've got these assailants that have been you know,

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Speaker 1: rolling down the road in a car, and this is

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Speaker 1: a targeted attack on a public official and it remained

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Speaker 1: and solved. I don't know, you know, I think that

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Speaker 1: we might not like to think of it this way.

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Speaker 1: But if you've got an open case involving an elected

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Speaker 1: official and it is unsolved, and it was something as

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Speaker 1: horrible as a local sheriff who was ambushed while going

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Speaker 1: down the road and in his official capacity to work

397
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Speaker 1: a domestic violence call in his wife is murdered along

398
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Speaker 1: the way, that's something that no matter how much time

399
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Speaker 1: passes by, people are still going to have an interest in,

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Speaker 1: particularly the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations. Every fall, Dave, I

401
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: take my class at Jacksonville State University. I take my class.

402
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Speaker 1: I teach a course in the fall called Clandestine Burials.

403
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Speaker 1: As matter of fact, I'm in the middle of it

404
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: right now, we're winding down semester. I take them out

405
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Speaker 1: to the cemetery. And because most people, first off, don't

406
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Speaker 1: know the difference between a cemetery in a graveyard. They

407
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: don't know the difference between a casket and coffin, they

408
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: don't know what a vault is. Many of them have

409
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Speaker 1: never taken time to read headstones, which is something that,

410
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Speaker 1: as morbid as it is, I find I find cemeteries

411
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Speaker 1: very peaceful, particularly if I don't have a loved one

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Speaker 1: that's buried there. There's a certain solemnity that comes along

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Speaker 1: with it. And I love because you're you're reading, you know,

414
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Speaker 1: you're walking through stones of history. I try to be

415
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Speaker 1: very respectful out there. But you've got these these engravings

416
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Speaker 1: on stones, you know, that talk about the love that

417
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Speaker 1: individuals had for their famiamily members decades and many times

418
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Speaker 1: those families are completely gone now, but they still they

419
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Speaker 1: occupy the space that you currently occupy, you know what

420
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Speaker 1: I'm saying. And so I take my kids out there.

421
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Speaker 1: And some of these graves in our local municipal cemetery

422
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Speaker 1: are very very old. Some of them are ante bellum,

423
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Speaker 1: their pre Civil War. Some of them are caving in,

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Speaker 1: and you can kind of get an idea of old

425
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: burial practices. You can see you can see that at

426
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Speaker 1: one point in time somebody really cared for the grave.

427
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Speaker 1: They may have put up a wrought iron fence. And

428
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Speaker 1: now even the rod arn fence is collapsing, it's covered

429
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 1: in rust, the gate is off the hinges, there's overgrowth.

430
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: But still, you know, you see these that are pristine.

431
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: Every now and then you'll see I know that a

432
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: couple of times we've seen elderly people that are out there.

433
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: I remember one date a couple of years ago, back

434
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: in the fall, there was a little old lady that

435
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: was at a grave and she was knelt at the

436
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: at the foot of the grave and she was weeping,

437
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: and she was off in the distance, and I told

438
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: the kids, stay, you know, we're not going that way.

439
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: We're going here to the really old section of the graveyard.

440
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: And the reason I make this point is that you

441
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: mentioned the r I p rest in peace right. You

442
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 1: see that everywhere, you know, you can see it on

443
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: the internet, you know, and social media. You know, people

444
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: will say, you know, happy heavenly Birthday r IP, you know,

445
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: and you're thinking about it. You know, you go out

446
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: there and these are families, you know, that are represented here.

447
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: There's individuals that have have lived these lives and some

448
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: of them ended very violently. What's fascinating to me about

449
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: about Pauline Pusser is the fact that in a way,

450
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: her death and her burial is kind of a clandestine

451
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: burial in the sense that and when I say clandestine,

452
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: that means that you're trying to hide something. The reason

453
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: I take my kids out of the graveyard so I

454
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: want them to be able to see what a regular

455
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: grave looks like. But you know, it's fascinating that maybe

456
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: just maybe people people actually die, someone does not do

457
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: a sufficient investigation, and that person gets put in the ground,

458
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: and in a way that's kind of clandestine, isn't it,

459
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, because they're buried, and you know, you no

460
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: one thinks when they're standing around a grave. I wonder

461
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: if Pusser all those years ago, as he you know,

462
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: as he went back to visit his wife's grave and

463
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: she was placed in the earth, if you know, after

464
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: he had gone through all the surgeries and everything. I

465
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: don't know if he ever went back out there. I

466
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: guess he did to honor her, or at least demonstrate honor.

467
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: If he ever thought, you know, well, got away with it.

468
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: No one's ever going to cracked this grave open, no

469
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: one's ever going to know. I'll take this with me

470
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: to my grave. And you know, of course he died.

471
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: He died I think in seventy four as a result

472
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: of a car accident. He had some kind of hopped

473
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: up corvette that he died in, and of course that

474
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: secret was taken the grave with him, Dave. But you know,

475
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: when you think about back in the sixties when she

476
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: was interned there, things were hidden Wrenth They Dave.

477
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: She had a healing broken nose when she was buried,

478
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: a healing broken nose when she was buried. So the

479
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: person that was there when she's dead, they're examined it,

480
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: they see, they know, and nobody says anything.

481
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Nobody, nobody at all. And you know, going back to

482
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: the earlier part of our conversation, Dave the idea that

483
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: he would take his wife on the domestic urban it's

484
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: called how many times have I mentioned and you've you've

485
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: said it too, all right, and it's it's rote. I mean,

486
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: it's everywhere, the most dangerous call a police officer will

487
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: ever go on. It's not some drug cartel thing, it's

488
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: not it's you know, it's uticule entrapment. It's a domestic

489
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: violence call. Because they're so unpredictable. So with that knowledge

490
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: in mind, you're going to take your wife there. Well,

491
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: let me just kind of throw this into the flame

492
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: as well. Here, if you're popping your wife in the

493
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: face to the point. He was a big man too,

494
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: I mean he was big and powerful, yeah, and had

495
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: a history as an athlete, I believe kind of sounds

496
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: like a brute to me. And Pauline, you know everything

497
00:30:52,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: I've heard. You know, she's kind of diminutive, quiet, beautiful. Well,

498
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: if your husband is so inclined and he's been putting

499
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: his hands on you and popping you in the face

500
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: to the point where you fracture her nasal bone, I'm

501
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: talking about the cartilage here, I'm talking about a facial fracture.

502
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: Here's the thing about facial fractures day. I wonder who

503
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: else was aware of this, because with fractured noses, you

504
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: know what you get, you get raccoon eyes because that

505
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: goes to what's referred to as a base of skull fracture,

506
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: the floor of the of the skull in that area.

507
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: That's why you see people that you know, you'll see

508
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: people that have had like facial reconstruction or you know,

509
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: some kind of plastic surgery on their nose size reduction

510
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. They'll have bilateral black eyes called

511
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: raccoon eyes. And that's because you get this this trauma

512
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: to the bone that's in there and I many times

513
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: will be swelling black. And I'd like to know the

514
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: domestic history on them at she was. She the type

515
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: of person that you wouldn't see for a period of

516
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: time because abuse victims are like that sometimes, you know,

517
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: they get abused. Many times they're not allowed to leave

518
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: the house by their abuser. They have to stay indoors,

519
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: particularly if they're presenting with any kind of trauma because

520
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: generally the abuser is not that stupid. You know, how

521
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: are you going to explain. She honey, what why do

522
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: you Why are both your eyes black? You know? Oh,

523
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: I you know I bumped into the door. Really, you

524
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: bumped into the door. That's why both of your eyes

525
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: are black. You know, she can't say that. You know,

526
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: my husband, with hands the size of a canned ham,

527
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, landed a blow in the middle of my

528
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: face and fractured my fractured my nose. And lots of

529
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: times when abuse are strike and they'll do this with

530
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: kids as well. They like to punch in the stomach,

531
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: you know that. They like to punch in the stomach.

532
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: They because you're going to be clothed in that area,

533
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: and they'll do they'll do things where trauma can be hidden,

534
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: but where the trauma cannot be hidden, they'll hide the

535
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: victim from from public views. So I guess you know,

536
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 1: when when you're going to do an exhamation and you

537
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: can actually tell this, her body would in fact have

538
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: been X rayed and anything that was there or the

539
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: skeleton remains all the remains of her. Remember she was

540
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: buried back in the sixties day. I'd like to know

541
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: how much remained of her that was casketed and even less,

542
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: say all of the soft tissue is gone, you'd be

543
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: surprised with embalmed bodies, particularly dependent upon how well they're embalmed,

544
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: how you can have surviving soft tissue. Sometimes that'll be there.

545
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of amazing. And again it all depends,

546
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: It depends on a lot of factors. If if, first off,

547
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: the embalming job was really good, all right, that's that's

548
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: the baseline. And if you can keep moisture out of

549
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: the vault and certainly out of the casket, you know

550
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: you want to keep if you can keep it reasonably

551
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: dry many times, that will facilitate preservation. And plus the

552
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: the embalming, the embalming fluids that they used back then

553
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 1: were you know, still had a lot of heavy metals

554
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: in them and that sort of thing. I don't know

555
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: how well she would have been preserved, but they would

556
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: have to have something to work with. But if she's

557
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: got and they've been able to appreciate this day apparently

558
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: per this exhammation, that she's got a resolving facial fracture

559
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: here and that they were able to pick up on it,

560
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: that it was in the and this is key man,

561
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: that there's a trauma response here. That you've got to

562
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: nose that was in fact healing at the time she

563
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: was murdered. So this is pre existing trauma. And how

564
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: far do the rest of this trauma extend where there

565
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: do you just have like one fracture line? Because even

566
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: and I've seen this, even in cases where we will

567
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: have people that will sustain injuries and they have pre

568
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: existing you know, trauma like to bone, the bone will

569
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 1: respond and sometimes it'll do what's called modeling. You'll you'll

570
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: have this kind of abnormal growth and it's the bone

571
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: trying to kind of reconstitute itself so that it's still viable.

572
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: Is fascinating and you can appreciate that. You know, you

573
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: can look at it and I think that somebody that's

574
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: probably more well versed than I am, can say, Okay,

575
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: that's not some type of disease pathology. That's evidence of trauma,

576
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: and you'll see maybe an outgrowth from it. You see

577
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: it in long bones a lot. You know, get these

578
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: kind of gnarly looking, you know, presentations on the shaft

579
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: of the bone, particularly where people have not had had

580
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: their bones like professionally set the bone. It nature dictates

581
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: that it wants to rejoin and if they can approximate

582
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: that you'll get these kind of odd presentations. I wonder

583
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: what they saw with her nose that gave them an

584
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: indication that it was in the midst of healing. That's

585
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: kind of fascinating. And how long? How long did this

586
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: happen before the so called ambush occurred? Sorry, I don't

587
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: mean step.

588
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: Now, no, no, I remember asking you about this when this

589
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: came out a cotle of months ago that I wanted

590
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: to know for my own edification. How could they know this?

591
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: And I was looking at you know, they just have

592
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: made parts of the report, which is very, very long.

593
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: They've they've made it available through the University of Tennessee.

594
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: And one of the things that I found fascinating about

595
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: the report of that day is that I just want

596
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 2: to share this with you because this is kind of

597
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: to me, it's a hint to According to the files,

598
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 2: witnesses said that Beauford Pusser attempted to flee from emergency

599
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 2: personnel that were responding to provide medical care for Pusser

600
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: and his wife. In a statement to the TBI, Donald G.

601
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 2: Smith stated that on the morning of August twelve, nineteen

602
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 2: sixty seven, he was working on the ambulance that picked

603
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: up Buford Puzzer. Smith provided that he couldn't understand much

604
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: of what Bufferser was saying. Caud You mentioned his injuries.

605
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: According to Smith, Buford's injuries were severe and it was

606
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: difficult to distinguish what he was trying to say. Smith

607
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: told the TBI he described that Pusser on top of

608
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: the hill on Highway forty five going south on Guy's Road,

609
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: and that Pusser was driving the car and Pauline Pusser

610
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 2: was lying over his lap. He told investigators that Pusser

611
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 2: refused to stop the vehicle for emergency person. Now, now,

612
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: was he doing that to make sure her injuries were

613
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: going to be fatal?

614
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: Making sure that she bled out?

615
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: In other words, right?

616
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? Because you know the thing about it is that

617
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: even back then in law enforcement, they were still trained

618
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: in first aid. They had and if I'm not mistaken,

619
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: Pussler had served time in the United States Marine Corps.

620
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: He would have had some level of basic basic first aid.

621
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that

622
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: if you've got a traumatic related event, particularly relative gunshot ones,

623
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: you got to stem the bleeding. You have to so

624
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that an individual that would that would

625
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: have this kind of knowledge relative to just basic trauma assessment,

626
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: would not want someone to get you know, to get well,

627
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, not just for themselves, but for you know,

628
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: for their so called loved one as well. You would

629
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: want this, you know, you would want this to happen

630
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: so that you could observe them, you know, having a

631
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: shot at least some kind of shot of survival.

632
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,959
Speaker 2: Dave, it breaks my heart, it just does.

633
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: I well, I got to tell you, just let me

634
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: run this down to you. If just from a forensic

635
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: pathology standpoint and from an anthropology standpoint, Pauline when she

636
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: when she died, this is the evidence that they found.

637
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: So.

638
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: She had survived or struck that Dave, I'm sorry. Three two.

639
00:39:52,600 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: Pauline has sustained an entrance gunshot wound actually to her

640
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: left occipital bone. So if everybody in the side, in

641
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: the sound of my voice right now, will take either

642
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: your left or your right hand, and you will reach

643
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: behind your head and you will find that that bump

644
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: on the back of your head, that bony bump that's

645
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: called the eccipital protuberance. Okay, if you will find that

646
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: point of reference. Move over to the left side of

647
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: that bump on the back of your head, and that's

648
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: still your occipital bone. That's where the bullet, the projectile

649
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 1: actually entered, Dave. And this round, that's an entrance wound.

650
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: And what do we classically classically define an exit you

651
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: remember had We've had this several times, an execution style murder.

652
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: You'll hear that term thrown around a lot. It's generally somebody.

653
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: You have this vision of somebody like kneeling before you,

654
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: are seated next to you, and they sustain a gunshot

655
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: wound to the back of the head in this round,

656
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: interestingly enough travels from back to front, and the the

657
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: reality is is that there is a still to this day,

658
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: they are projectile fragments after all these years that were

659
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 1: actually found inside of her skull. Now there's market signs

660
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: of decomposition. But here's the other thing. When they examined

661
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: her body, they were able to and I know that

662
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: they did X rays. They had to. That's if you're

663
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: going to go to the trouble to ezum a body,

664
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: you're going to do like extensive X ray another body.

665
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: They were able to pick up on the fact that

666
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: her nose, that her nose was actually in a state

667
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: of healing, this fracture that was going on. And you

668
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: can tell that when any forensic anthropologist in particular, and

669
00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: it's you know, they're involving ut in this, you know

670
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: that that's that's going to be the people in the

671
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: forensic anthropology department there. You know that they're able to

672
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: understand the difference between fresh trauma, which is going to

673
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: be associated with the immediate cause of death, and healing trauma. Well,

674
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: if there's no other report of her having sustained a

675
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: fractured nose and that was in the healing process, I

676
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: think that my question probably would be time wise, given

677
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: the state of healing, how long prior to this fatal

678
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: event did this this fractured nose, you know, happen. I

679
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: think that that's I think that that goes a long

680
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: way to kind of establishing perhaps you know what you're

681
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: going to find relative to her, you know, and kind

682
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: of and there's no way you know, we're I don't know,

683
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: we're decades now, you know, down range. As a matter

684
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: of fact, I guess what in two years this will

685
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: have occurred sixty years ago, There's no way that we can,

686
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: you know, actually go back and there's no one to charge. Now,

687
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 1: you know, he's dead and gone. He's buried somewhere up there,

688
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: maybe adjacent to her. I don't know. I've never visited

689
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: the grave, don't care to. But what I'm saying is

690
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: there's nobody to charge here. But just perhaps, just perhaps,

691
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: the mystery behind the assassins that chase them down that

692
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: night has finally been solved. And it wasn't a Dixie mafia.

693
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, it wasn't some phantom that emerged

694
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: in the night, according to what the TBI says. Now,

695
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: if he were still alive today, they put the bracelets

696
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: on him, they take him downtown, they would ask him

697
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: questions because he would be the prime suspect. But dave

698
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: you start or you started something here, and I would

699
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: be remiss for not following up with it. And I'm

700
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: going to go ahead and say it now. If you

701
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 1: or anybody you know is in a violent relationship pleading

702
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: with you, you got to get them help. Now. I'm

703
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: not saying I have all the answers. I'm not saying

704
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: anybody else does either, But a place to start is

705
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: going to be the National Domestic Violence Hotline. And let

706
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: me give you that number. I'll repeat it after I

707
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: say it's the first time. It's one eight hundred seven

708
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: nine to nine seven two three three. That's one eight

709
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 1: zero zero seven nine tonne seven two three three. I hope,

710
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: I do hope that Pauline Pusser rest in peace, and

711
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: I that her death stands for something more than the

712
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: false image that was created by her husband. That it

713
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: stands for what is a problem in this country, and

714
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: that is domestic violence. Those are the memories that we

715
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: should hold onto relative to the murder of Pauline Pusser.

716
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybags