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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hi everyone, and welcome to it could

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Speaker 1: happen here, a very special edition of It could Happen Here,

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Speaker 1: in which we are very lucky to be joined by

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Speaker 1: Inland from Lift The World Is Dying and what will

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Speaker 1: be the first of many crossover episodes where the folks

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Speaker 1: from Strangely Tangled Wouldness are going to share with us

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Speaker 1: some of their preparedness advice. Welcome to the show. Would

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Speaker 1: like to introduce yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, James. I'm in

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Speaker 2: Man Marowin and I use they then pronouns, And I'm

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Speaker 2: one of the hosts of Love Like the World Is Dying,

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Speaker 2: your podcast for What Feels Like the End Times, which

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Speaker 2: is a lefty prepper podcast about community and individual preparedness

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Speaker 2: for disasters of all kinds. And really excited to be

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Speaker 2: on the show with you. Yeah, on a different show,

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Speaker 2: because you're on that show with me sometime, which is great.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I'm bringing together the two like,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a superhero reference I could make here,

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Speaker 1: but I don't really understand that wild say I won't.

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Speaker 1: I don't either. Great, Okay, two people talking about a

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Speaker 1: thing they don't understand that is what podcasts are sometimes,

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Speaker 1: but not today. What are we going to talk about today?

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Speaker 2: Well, what I'm really excited to talk about today is

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Speaker 2: preparedness in general, how community preparedness differs from some more

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Speaker 2: conventional modalities, and being really nice with that phrase.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one way of saying it.

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Speaker 2: How individual preparedness fits into community preparedness, and kind of

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Speaker 2: about my own journey into prepper stuff or preparedness, which

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Speaker 2: might be a new term for some people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like to call.

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Speaker 2: It preparedness over like prepping as a term sort of

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Speaker 2: because like, I don't know, Like if I say I'm

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Speaker 2: into prepping, then people start to give me funny looks

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Speaker 2: and think I want to live in a bunker with

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Speaker 2: a thousand cans of beans and more guns than I

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Speaker 2: know what to do with. Yeah, But if I say

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Speaker 2: I'm into preparedness, people are like, ooh, I know who

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Speaker 2: to call if I need help with something or get

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Speaker 2: in a jam, you know. Yeah, Yeah, And it's kind

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Speaker 2: of exactly that sentiment that I want listeners to think

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Speaker 2: of when they think of preparedness is what connections and

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Speaker 2: resources we have for when things go wrong, and how

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Speaker 2: we are going to respond to disasters of all kinds

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Speaker 2: when we're faced with them, because having a plan kind

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Speaker 2: of makes things less scary, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I feel safeer approaching bad things because I've

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Speaker 1: approached bad things with my friends and we have gone

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Speaker 1: through them and we've helped other people get through them. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I also think a lot of people engage in preparedness

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Speaker 2: without really realizing this. I feel like i'd ask these

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Speaker 2: questions to you on a less rhetorical basis if I

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Speaker 2: didn't know them to be true. But for instance, listener,

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Speaker 2: do you keep tools and a snack in your car

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Speaker 2: in case you break down on the side of the road,

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Speaker 2: or if your car won't start? Do you have a

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Speaker 2: friend that will take a look at it for you

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Speaker 2: and help you fix it. If so, then congratulations, you're

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Speaker 2: into preparedness for a very specific kind of disaster. And

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Speaker 2: now we just have to figure out how to apply

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Speaker 2: that to other disasters, whether it's your car breaking down,

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Speaker 2: the climate breaking down, or the world as we know

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Speaker 2: it breaking down, because unfortunately, with the world as it

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Speaker 2: is right now, as Margaret has said before, we're all

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Speaker 2: preppers now. Yeah, I don't know, it's something that makes

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Speaker 2: thinking about disaster just less scary, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: ultimately kind of one of the best reasons of like

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Speaker 2: why we should get into preparedness is because it makes

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Speaker 2: things less scary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, and I think it gives you if you're

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Speaker 1: doing it right, And I think this is something we

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Speaker 1: can get into, Like you realize how much your community

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Speaker 1: can get through if you will have each other rather

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Speaker 1: than necessarily the alternative that the other modality that you

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Speaker 1: talked about, it is theoretically thinking how much you could

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Speaker 1: get through whilst never helping anyone. Yeah, and that's very

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Speaker 1: different things. Yeah, yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, listeners, we're talking about kind of

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Speaker 2: more traditional like bunker mentality prepping, which we'll get into Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a little bit later, but that is my euphemism so

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Speaker 2: far as more conventional modality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like, can you give some ideas of like

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Speaker 1: why people might want to get into preparedness, what they

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Speaker 1: might want to be prepared for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, so many things. The list is kind of endless,

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Speaker 2: which is yeah, which is unfortunate, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to overwhelm overwhelm people, but there's just a lot of

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Speaker 2: things and new things are emerging every day. But the

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Speaker 2: first step of preparedness is kind of identifying what your

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Speaker 2: threat model is, or really just asking yourself, you know,

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Speaker 2: like what are you personally worried about for yourself or

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Speaker 2: for your community, and some kind of like larger categories

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Speaker 2: that we can lump that stuff into. Is I feel

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Speaker 2: like what comes to mind for people immediately probably is

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Speaker 2: natural disasters. They're ever more frequent, They're growing in intensity

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Speaker 2: and happening in more places. People who never thought they

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Speaker 2: would become climate refugees are now becoming climate refugees. I

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Speaker 2: still live on a chunk of land, and like we

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Speaker 2: got flooded out. We lived in a hundred year floodplain.

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Speaker 2: And like, yeah, I know it's not once every hundred years,

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Speaker 2: that's not how it works. But like our time came,

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Speaker 2: we got flooded out. Yeah, there's my migration. This could

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Speaker 2: be due to climate change, political upheaval, economic reasons, family bigotry,

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Speaker 2: and obvious tie into this. Right now is everything going

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Speaker 2: on with ice raids where a lot of people are

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Speaker 2: being displaced and either trying to return to their homes

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Speaker 2: or find new ones. And there's also like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: there's like a lot of people like in more conservative

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Speaker 2: states in the US, who for instance, are trans or

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Speaker 2: have trans people that are in their family or in

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Speaker 2: their close friend group and are deciding whether they need

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Speaker 2: to move somewhere else or at least come up with

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Speaker 2: an escape plan if things get worse where they are,

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Speaker 2: And the same is true for like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maintaining access to abortion. Everything is very different in very

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Speaker 2: different places or very close spaces, even in the United States,

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Speaker 2: And so I think a lot of people who never

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Speaker 2: thought they'd need to think about migration are now thinking

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Speaker 2: about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: A big problem with how migration is reported on in

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Speaker 1: America is that like people who are migrants have seen

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Speaker 1: as like some kind of subcategory of humans, you know, totally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're a person who can get pregnant, and you're

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Speaker 1: a person who might consider, in whatever circumstances, accessing abortion,

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Speaker 1: then in some states you need to be prepared to

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Speaker 1: become a migrant, like a yeah, relatively very short notice, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's something that we're all closer to than we think. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Another big one is kind of like larger economic, social,

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Speaker 2: or political collapse, you know, simply meaning that like the

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Speaker 2: structures of the world, no longer mean what they used

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Speaker 2: to mean. This could mean the collapse of capitalism or

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Speaker 2: capitalism turning more into like literal corporate feudalism. Another big

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Speaker 2: one is I'm just have this broad category of war.

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Speaker 2: This could be an invasion, a civil war, a revolution,

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Speaker 2: a rise in right wing militias, another rise in right

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Speaker 2: wing militias, whatever. I'm kind of neglecting some more fantastical

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Speaker 2: apocalypses that I'm sure we can all imagine, but there

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Speaker 2: are those we might wake up as fungus, you know

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Speaker 2: who can say. And then lastly, there's the current disaster

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Speaker 2: that is late stage capitalism. And this one is the

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Speaker 2: one that I spend the most time thinking about because

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Speaker 2: it's the one that's ever present in our lives currently

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Speaker 2: and kind of informs and maybe creates a lot of

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Speaker 2: the other larger threats I just mentioned, Yeah, except becoming fungus.

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Speaker 1: Well yet yeah maybe, Yeah, we're doing a lot with

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Speaker 1: the the old whatever rfkas into idea of Ministry of health.

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Speaker 1: It's not cool that health and human services. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think this is the one that, like, this is a

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Speaker 1: disaster that people don't often like see because it's slow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it kills us slowly rather than quick and it kills

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Speaker 1: us quickly. Yeah, talking of killing us slowly in it

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Speaker 1: my obligation to pivot to adverts is slowly killing my

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Speaker 1: soul that I have to do it anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we this is new for me. We don't have

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Speaker 2: these little livel like the world that is dying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I thought i'd take the first time.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to leave the second one up to you.

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Speaker 1: You can have a swing at it. All right, thank

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Speaker 1: you Products and Services for supporting this show. We are back. Imen.

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Speaker 1: Let's break it down for people in like a very

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Speaker 1: basic sense. If that's okay, how do we start being

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Speaker 1: more prepared? Like I imagine the first step would be to

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Speaker 1: immediately go to a federal firearms license. Se is that right? Yes?

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Speaker 2: That is that is the first step. It is to

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Speaker 2: fill your bunker with guns. No, that's that's not the

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Speaker 2: first step because you can eat them. Yes, and no

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Speaker 2: jokes aside. So the first step we just talked about

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Speaker 2: it before that break is determine your threat. You know,

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Speaker 2: in the case of let's use earthquakes as an example.

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Speaker 2: If you live somewhere with earthquakes, then your threat model

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Speaker 2: should probably include earthquakes, you might prepare for earthquakes more

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Speaker 2: than you might prepare for wildfires too. The second step

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Speaker 2: is make a plan, which means like, when there's an earthquake,

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Speaker 2: you're going to do X and Y and meet so

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Speaker 2: and so at blank. Yeah, you can also include not

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Speaker 2: living somewhere with earthquakes anymore as part of your make

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Speaker 2: a plan, because maybe that's just the one thing you

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Speaker 2: don't want to deal with. The next part is acquire

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Speaker 2: the parts of the plan and so like, if your

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Speaker 2: plan includes resources, which everyone's plan should include a go bag,

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Speaker 2: an escape route, and any kind of equipment that you need.

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Speaker 2: And at this point you're mostly ready. I maybe would

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Speaker 2: add to collaborate with others. And then this step gets

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Speaker 2: missed a lot. But at this point, since you're mostly ready,

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Speaker 2: hopefully you can let go of some anxiety and despair.

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Speaker 2: You've done the hardest part, which is to get started,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully you can we can feel comfort in that

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Speaker 2: if we can't forestall a disaster, that we can at

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Speaker 2: least be ready for it, and then act on the plan,

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Speaker 2: do the thing, and assess what you can do better

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Speaker 2: next time. Yeah, that's those are my basic steps. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it is makes it seem also simple.

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Speaker 1: It's so simple. Yeah, obviously we will spend a love

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Speaker 1: time in the next few months breaking down each of

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Speaker 1: those steps and explaining them for people. Yeah. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: I live in a place where wildfires are common. In

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Speaker 1: my time living in California, I've been evacuated for a

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Speaker 1: couple of fires. I've had an earthquake, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: had a fewer than natural disasters. Of course, earth quake

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Speaker 1: channels had become fives they did in San Francisco. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would not make sense if you live where I

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Speaker 1: live to not have a plan for that. You would

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Speaker 1: be being naive. Yeah, it's that like a story like

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Speaker 1: that for you, Like, is there a thing did you

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Speaker 1: did you? Like, you know, have to evacuate for a

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Speaker 1: wildfire and you couldn't find your shoes like what?

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Speaker 2: So one of my funny things was living on this

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Speaker 2: land project and like we were we were experiencing a flood.

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Speaker 2: We were experiencing what could have very easily been a

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Speaker 2: flash flood, and I was trying to just convince people

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Speaker 2: to leave, and I had a hard time convincing people

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Speaker 2: to leave. Yeah, Like there was like water up to

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Speaker 2: our chests and this is my answer now, But my

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Speaker 2: answer that I wrote about for this episode is so

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Speaker 2: a little bit of preliad. In the first episode of

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Speaker 2: Live Like the World Is Dying, Margaret talks with Kittie

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Speaker 2: Striker about anarchists, and Margaret talks about the possibilities that

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Speaker 2: she's preparing for, which she identifies as kind of these

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Speaker 2: four possibilities, living like the world is going to end,

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Speaker 2: and that we might not survive, living like the world

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Speaker 2: is going to end, and we can try to survive,

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Speaker 2: living like we can prevent the end of the world,

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Speaker 2: and then maybe trying to live like the world isn't

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Speaker 2: going to end after all. And I got into preparedness

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Speaker 2: for a lot of reasons, some of which evolved over time.

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Speaker 2: It went from something that felt scary to something that

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Speaker 2: feels comforting, and I hope that it can become comforting

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Speaker 2: for other people. I hope that's where a lot of

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Speaker 2: you can land who are listening who are either new

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Speaker 2: to the concept or think that prepping is only for

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Speaker 2: people who expect to need to survive for thirty years

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Speaker 2: in a bunker after a nuclear, zombie, bio apokarev or whatever,

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Speaker 2: eating canned beans. I'm really harping on this image because

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Speaker 2: I think it's what a lot of people think of

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Speaker 2: when they think of prepping. You know, beans bunker, a

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Speaker 2: little battie, and the fourth maybe lesser known one billionaires

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Speaker 2: or the four bees of the apocalypse, as I want

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Speaker 2: to think about them, to kind of confront this as

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Speaker 2: like a word, this like apocalypse. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: different kinds of apocalypses, and whether we like it or not,

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Speaker 2: if it isn't already here, it's coming. And for some

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Speaker 2: people it's coming swiftly, for others it's slowly, but it

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Speaker 2: is coming. And billionaires are preparing for it, even if

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Speaker 2: they want us to think their tech will save the world.

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Speaker 2: They have all the money and resources, and they are

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Speaker 2: still worried. And while they'll try to use their money

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Speaker 2: in power to kind of escape the consequences becoming a

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Speaker 2: billionaire has had on the world, most people probably don't

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Speaker 2: have access to those kinds of resources. But what we

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Speaker 2: all do have access to our social and community ties,

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Speaker 2: even if it might not seem like that now. And oddly,

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Speaker 2: these social ties are things that billionaires often lack, or

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Speaker 2: doubt the authenticity of, or just can't comprehend Yeah, there's

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Speaker 2: this article by Douglas Ruscoff. This tech consultant who gets

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Speaker 2: flown out to the desert to talk to rich people

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Speaker 2: about collapse, and he's surprised because they don't really ask

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Speaker 2: him about tech stuff. They ask him about like maintaining

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Speaker 2: social control over the people that work for them when

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Speaker 2: money no longer means anything. And I'm like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: do maybe make like more authentic friendships, you know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe don't rely on having people so

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Speaker 1: subservient to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think this kind of air quotes conundrum

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Speaker 2: speaks a lot to people's fears about collapse and is

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Speaker 2: what gets people into a bunker mentality. You know, everyone's

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Speaker 2: worried about roving bands of armed people taking what they've

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Speaker 2: prepared for their own survival. And I think that is

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Speaker 2: a fantasy that we don't really see happen in real

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Speaker 2: life as often as we might think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've reported from plenty of natural and human created disasters.

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Speaker 1: Actually it is the opposite of that. Like, we can

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Speaker 1: talk about this another time, but it's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I can keep doing it. Like, despite being hugely traumatic,

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Speaker 1: is it's actually incredible how much people go out of

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Speaker 1: their way when they're thoroughly miserable to help other people

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Speaker 1: who they see is needing help. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really beautiful thing. Yeah, to be a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a word nerd real quick. I feel

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Speaker 2: like everyone who talks about prepping has talked about the

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Speaker 2: etymological origins of the word apocalypse. But it is very

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Speaker 2: interesting and I think it's relevant, which is like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's from these two Greek words appo and colliptine, which

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Speaker 2: means like often to conceal, and so like a more

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Speaker 2: literal translation of it is a revealing and I think

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Speaker 2: that disaster really reveals things. It reveals the ways that

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Speaker 2: society has really like bailed. It reveals the consequences of

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Speaker 2: what living in a corporate oligarchy looks like. And it

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Speaker 2: also reveals like what beautiful and powerful things people have

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Speaker 2: built as communities and prepared for to give like a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a positive spin on a grim, grim

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Speaker 2: grim word.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, Like when I think about that, I think

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Speaker 1: about like two years ago, I was in the Marshal

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Speaker 1: Islands right where like the apocalypse has come, right, the

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Speaker 1: atomic bomb has dropped on the Marshal Islands. The United States.

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Speaker 1: We did that, and the sea levels a rising such

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Speaker 1: that like children born there today won't die there, right,

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Speaker 1: they probably won't even have their own children there, you know,

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty forty years left, and I didn't see like

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Speaker 1: people fighting each other for the highest point of land. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw people taking care of one another, thinking about

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Speaker 1: how like not just like that individual, you know, they

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Speaker 1: could maintain their assets, but how their community could survive,

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Speaker 1: how their culture could survive, and you know, how they

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Speaker 1: could keep the things the incredible hospitality is so special

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Speaker 1: to them, which I thought was like very revealing compared

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Speaker 1: to this sort of mindset that you see more conventionally

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Speaker 1: in like prempa spaces. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And to finally get to my own kind of little

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Speaker 2: journey into preparedness, Yeah, I wasn't a prepper until like

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Speaker 2: not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: Really. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When I first heard Live Like the World Is Dying,

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Speaker 2: it was twenty twenty. COVID was still new. There was

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Speaker 2: like extreme civil unrest because there was an uprising going

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Speaker 2: on and the same fascist that's our sitting president now

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Speaker 2: was our president then, and he was backed up by

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Speaker 2: people like Kyle Rittenhouse who were gunning people down in

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Speaker 2: streets for protesting a racist murder where I lived in

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Speaker 2: entire mountain range was also on fire. Yeah, and the

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Speaker 2: idea that it was the coolest summer I might ever

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Speaker 2: remember was still setting in. And then I heard about

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Speaker 2: Margaret doing live like the World Is Dying, and I

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Speaker 2: actually refused to listen to it because I knew with

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Speaker 2: every fiber of my body that things were irrevocably different,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted to stick my head in the sand,

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Speaker 2: you know, like, not because I was scared, but because

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Speaker 2: getting prepared is overwhelming, and I didn't have any clue

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Speaker 2: where to begin. Like I was a scrappy punk. I

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Speaker 2: didn't have like thousands of dollars to spend on gear

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Speaker 2: and stockpiling food and guns and shit, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so it felt for a while like preparedness was

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Speaker 2: only for people who had a lot of money, and

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Speaker 2: that I'd be left behind. But I did eventually listen

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Speaker 2: to the show because Margaret's my friend and I trusted

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Speaker 2: she had good things to say, and because it was

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Speaker 2: a show about beginnings and I needed one. And so

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Speaker 2: as I listened, I slowly started to warm up to

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Speaker 2: the idea that preparedness wasn't just necessary, but that it

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Speaker 2: was also very much within my reach, especially in the

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Speaker 2: framework of community preparedness. Yeah, and you know who can

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Speaker 2: tell you a lot about community preparedness.

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Speaker 1: Who's that? I think these lovely sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Or advertisements or products that we're about to hear about.

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Speaker 1: I sure hope. So we are back. There was a

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Speaker 1: fantastic ad transition, first of many. Hopefully it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: apparently beginning ads for like some kind of gold company

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Speaker 1: that is also sanctioned by God God that that is,

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Speaker 1: just just to be clear, not the way to go

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Speaker 1: in terms of community preparedness that the precious Metals route.

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Speaker 1: This one we're not advising here. Can you explain the

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Speaker 1: difference between those two modalities, because I think, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: I still when Margaret was asking me if I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do live like the World is dying, she was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: because James is like when we did an episode together,

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Speaker 1: Ande go back. She's like, oh, ye, James, like at

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Speaker 1: Lefty Prepper a community preparing And I was like, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: that's not me. I'm not going to be on the

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Speaker 1: Discovery Channel show, you know, like where do people shoot

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Speaker 1: themselves on camera? But Noy didn't too clearly kill themselves

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Speaker 1: that they handle their firearms in an unsafe manner and

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Speaker 1: hurt themselves totally. So let's explain, like, let's break down

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Speaker 1: the good and the bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's kind of a tension between them, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and between like what I'll call community preparedness and like

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Speaker 2: bunker syndrome prepping.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the image that prepping brings to mind for a

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Speaker 2: lot of people is like a right wing alpha dude

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Speaker 2: in a bunker with a dragon horde of preserved food

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Speaker 2: and more guns than anyone could ever use. It's like

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Speaker 2: an image of one person against the world. And I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of like, Okay, your fantasy apocalypse happens. You survive

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Speaker 2: the nuclear apocalypse, Armed gangs rove the wastelands, food is

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Speaker 2: hoarded and fought over, and you're protecting your bunker and

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Speaker 2: then what, you know, what happens next? How do you

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Speaker 2: build back a world alone? What is the world if

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Speaker 2: you're alone? And not only like we've talked about that,

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Speaker 2: we mentioned this earlier, but like, I don't I think

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Speaker 2: this is not only like a fantasy, but it's not

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Speaker 2: what happens. I think historically in disasters and the way

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Speaker 2: that we can make it through disasters, I think is

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Speaker 2: not based on how many resources we have hoarded, but

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Speaker 2: based on our abilities to make and maintain community friendship

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Speaker 2: and connections. You know, it's a trope, but the real

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Speaker 2: horde in the bunker was the friendship all along, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, but you know, we do need

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Speaker 2: to learn how to produce and preserve food and build stuff.

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Speaker 2: We just don't have to do it alone in a disaster.

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Speaker 2: Our greatest resource is help from people that we care

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Speaker 2: about and potential new friends. And it's sort of the

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Speaker 2: overwhelming amount of skills that come with the bunker syndrome

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Speaker 2: that I think causes a lot of people to become

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Speaker 2: overwhelmed by starting to prepare. And the traditional prepper community,

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Speaker 2: it's it's very right wing conservative, and it really makes

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Speaker 2: it seem like every single person has to learn every

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Speaker 2: skill they could possibly need in order to get prepared. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I think part of that kind of bunker syndrome

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Speaker 2: is also maybe that you have to learn all that

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Speaker 2: stuff on your own because you low key think that

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Speaker 2: everyone you know is going to turn on you, you know.

401
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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because you've been an odious piece of shit

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Speaker 1: for your entire life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And again, make better friends, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I used to think that like preparedness was

405
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Speaker 1: a lot of people who'd never really experienced genuine hardship,

406
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Speaker 1: wondering what it might be like probably is, yeah, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it is, right because like if you've been

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Speaker 1: just like poor or otherwise facing like like trans folks

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Speaker 1: right now, right even like anyone really in their LGBTQIA area,

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Speaker 1: Like it's scary right now, and you've probably found that

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Speaker 1: the things are keeping going to other people, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: not your pile of beans. And like I certainly have

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Speaker 1: not experienced what transfercts are experiencing, but like I've had

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Speaker 1: some difficult times and I've been poor, and like it's

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Speaker 1: always been like other people who have come through for me,

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Speaker 1: not stuff I had or even skills I have, really, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think there's this real divide between like there's

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Speaker 1: people who are in fantasy bunker land, and then there's

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Speaker 1: people who are like, yeah, either too afraid to think

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Speaker 1: about preparedness or feel too overwhelmed to think about it,

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Speaker 1: or think that yeah, they can't possibly do it because

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Speaker 1: it's too far gone already. And I think preparedness is

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Speaker 1: for everyone, you know, like we say start small, put

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Speaker 1: food away every week, start to get your go back together.

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Speaker 1: Just start. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so to maybe now to find like what community

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Speaker 2: preparedness is is. I think that it's what we get

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Speaker 2: when we take a lot of different prins and mash

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Speaker 2: them together.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's like.

431
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 2: It's like part mutual aid, it's part individual preparedness. It's

432
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 2: principles of autonomy, solidarity, direct action, and collective decision making,

433
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 2: and it's all synthesized into a kind of.

434
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: A beautiful little alchemy. Yeah.

435
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: It's kind of the most like anarchistic thing you can do,

436
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: which is really fun to me.

437
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

438
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: And I think it really means investing in the people

439
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: around you so that you can all invest in collective survival.

440
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: And I know we mentioned this earlier, but like there's

441
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 2: this thing that happens during disasters that gets referred to

442
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: as disaster communism.

443
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you heard that one? Yeah? Yeah. It doesn't

444
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: mean that like Lenin emerges and leads a vanguard group

445
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: to show you where the pupercation's at.

446
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, It means that the logic of

447
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: capital is kind of temporarily suspended and people just help

448
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: each other for free, not even for barter for free,

449
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: and like people like go out and just give out

450
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: stuff they have in excess, even if they purchased it,

451
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: and even if they're like you don't look like the

452
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: kind of people I like, just give.

453
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: It out, yeah, one hundred percent, Like yeah, I think,

454
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: like I can think of a few, Like I can

455
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: remember when thousands of people were being housed outside in

456
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: the cold and when wet at the border house is

457
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 1: not the word I would use, corlt in the desert.

458
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: I was out there with my friends and like we

459
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: looked like dirty crusspunk people, right, Like we were not

460
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: like clean and well put together in that sense, right,

461
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: Like we just scruffed totally, and that's fine, and I

462
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: like being scrubbed. Yeah that's nice. But like, yeah, it

463
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: was amazing to see like folks who one hundred percent

464
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: do not have the same politics as me, like roll

465
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: out and whatever, like set ups you know they had

466
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: and like be like, yo, this is fucked luckily, Like

467
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 1: I have some stuff that I was going to use

468
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: for a barbecue next week, so I will drag my

469
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 1: barbecue out here and cook for people or like yeah,

470
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: you know people who cook for their church's bake sale,

471
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: being like I have a giant ass pot, Like let

472
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: me make some beans for you guys, you know, Like, yeah,

473
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: I think people would be so surprised, And it's great

474
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: that people have not experienced that, like because I think

475
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: it's quite a traumatic thing to experience, but they get

476
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: you'd be so surprised how how much? Or like I

477
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: remember one time just building shelters with a bunch of people,

478
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: and like everyone was pretty miserable rates of cold and windy,

479
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 1: and like there were some Kourdish guys that uspect guys,

480
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: some Chinese guys, and we're building these shelters together and

481
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: like all of these people who didn't even share a language,

482
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 1: and we're going through very difficult times. We're just like

483
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: nerding out on knots together rare and just helping each

484
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: other and then not doing that so they could sleep inside,

485
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: doing that so little children wouldn't have to sleep in

486
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: the cold. But yeah, that's the way humans behave in

487
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: these situations, and capitalism or YouTube might have convinced you

488
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: it's not like it is.

489
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like more traditional preppers really like

490
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: get into it too, Like they'll show up, they're like

491
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: I got forty chainsaws, are like like it's like every

492
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: like Chud Truck's time to shine to like haul away

493
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 2: raggage and the like. I don't know, you know, it's

494
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: like I'm making it sound exciting, but what's exciting is

495
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: when people collaborate autonomously and collectively for like more good

496
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: than their own.

497
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

498
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: And then kind of the problem is that like capitalism

499
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: comes back in the initial fallout fads from sight and yeah,

500
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: just because the disaster kind of fades doesn't mean it's gone.

501
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of people who kind of still

502
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: have to deal with it for potentially ever. Yeah, And

503
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: that's kind of like the disaster of light stage capitalism

504
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: is similar. We have people who are constantly invisibilized even

505
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: though it's part of their regular lives.

506
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

507
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: Can I maybe break down some of these terms that

508
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: are maybe.

509
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: It can be good for people, Yeah, Yeah, because I

510
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: think they get thrown around about right totally.

511
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: So, Mutual aid is knowing that any help that we

512
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: give our community helps us by strengthening our strengthening our community.

513
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: Autonomy is deciding what's best for us based on what

514
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: we know about ourselves and our needs. Solidarity is unity

515
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: through action and knowing that, like it's like the you know,

516
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: I got your back even if you don't got mine.

517
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 2: You know, direct action is working directly to achieve our

518
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: goals instead of waiting for someone else to do it.

519
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: You know, we see this in disasters like don't wait

520
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: for FEMA. There's like so many people who are just

521
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: out there doing autonomous relief efforts and it's incredible collective

522
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: decision making, finding ways to make decisions together in ways

523
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: where power isn't being like abused or accumulated. And then

524
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: there's individual preparedness, which is kind of the last little

525
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: thing I want to talk about. So individual preparedness is

526
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: kind of like the ways that we prepare individually so

527
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: that when a disaster strikes, we have our basic needs

528
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 2: met and you know, there's a lot to learn. So

529
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: it's like it's easy to get lost back in that

530
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: overwhelm mentality. Yeah, but I think we can really think

531
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: about it in terms of disaster since we're on that track. Like,

532
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: if there's a disaster and power goes out, then the

533
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: roads are less traversible. If you have all of your

534
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: needs met through individual preparedness, then you're in a really

535
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: good position to go help others and if everyone in

536
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: your community already has prepared for their basic needs, then

537
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: your whole community is prepared to take kind of the

538
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: next step towards recovery. And it means that your community

539
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: can now help other communities that were less prepared or

540
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: more impacted by a disaster, even if they thought.

541
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: They were prepared.

542
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: Community preparedness is like what happens when we kind of

543
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: mash all of these ideas together and start doing it

544
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: not just as an individual but as a community. And

545
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: this can look small or it can look big, you know,

546
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people's biggest hurdle is

547
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 2: just like kind of making a plan. And like, I

548
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: don't know, your disaster plan might include you and the

549
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 2: people you live with. It might include you and your polycule,

550
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: It might include you and your whole block, and it

551
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: might include your whole neighborhood. And I think there's just

552
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: this like big, beautiful spectrum. And to kind of carry

553
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: an example through, like some interviews that we've done on

554
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: a livef the world is dying. Someone's measure of individual

555
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: preparedness might include having a radio when cell networks go down,

556
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: and anothers might include building communication infrastructure that they can distribute,

557
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: and another maybe smaller groups idea might be agreeing on

558
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: a place to meet up because they don't have radios,

559
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: can't afford them, don't know how they work, and they've

560
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 2: just said when shit hits the fan, we're meeting at

561
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: the library.

562
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's still a whole love better than like dashing

563
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: around on town wondering where the people you love are. Yeah, yeah,

564
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: and it's that easy.

565
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: You know, we get overwhelmed by tech, but there's so

566
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: many low tech solutions to a lot of these problems.

567
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's why we're doing an episode on carry

568
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: a pigeon. Yeah, carrier pigeons. Are they extinct? That's passenger pigeons,

569
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: different pigeons, passenger visions. Yeah. Yeah, So, like, what are

570
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: some basic ways we can we can think about preparedness

571
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: And we're going to cover these in more detail, right,

572
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: we'll do episodes on each of these. But maybe someone's like, well, shit,

573
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: I would like to get on that. What are some

574
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: things people can work on? Yeah?

575
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: I think it does start with kind of individual preparedness.

576
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: And when I say individual, I mean, like, you know,

577
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: for ourselves, But that doesn't mean we can't do individual preparedness.

578
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: Parallel and like with other people. So don't think of

579
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: individual as being alone. It's just we're thinking about your

580
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: specific basic needs. It's and so here's kind of a

581
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: checklist that we put out in a zine for strangers

582
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: in a tangled wilderness called Ready for Anything. There's documentation

583
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: you know, get or renewed documentation like passports, DOACA, other

584
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: status cards, whatever. Get a driver's license from your state

585
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: if you are undocumented, If you have other kind of

586
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: permits like concealed carry permits, or medical documentation for you

587
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: and your pets. Get all of those together. And you

588
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: want to think about having both physical and digital backups

589
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: of those things, Yeah, because digital might not work. You

590
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: want to do some kind of basic just supply preparedness,

591
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: which is, store three days or three weeks of food,

592
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: store three days or three weeks of water, Store enough

593
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: portable power to keep your phone and other essentials charged

594
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 2: for three days or three weeks. Build yourself a go bag,

595
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: stockpile prescription medication you need, keep your vehicle in good

596
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: running condition with at least half a tank of gas,

597
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: and get kind of any equipment stuff that you might

598
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: want now because it's going to be wildly unavailable when

599
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: a disaster does come.

600
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

601
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 2: And then on the community side, get to know your neighbors,

602
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 2: plan with them, help them with documentation and preparedness components.

603
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: Make sure vulnerable neighbors know that you are a potential resource.

604
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: Connect with activist groups locally. Build an affinity group. Maybe

605
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: you and your friends are really into communication infrastructure, and

606
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: when a disaster does strike, you just have that ready

607
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: to go while you know some other affinity group is

608
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: making sure that everyone's fed. Divide and conquer. I don't

609
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: like that phrase, but it works right now, Make a

610
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: plan for securely communicating and make plans for meeting up

611
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: when things go wrong. And even when things kind of

612
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 2: go wrong with your plan, you know, have a backup plan.

613
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, primary, alternate, contingency and emergency plan if you want

614
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: to use the cringe military acronym. Yeah.

615
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: And then these are some kind of questions that I

616
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: think you can ask your community when you're trying to

617
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: think about building resiliency. What disasters are dangerous do you

618
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: feel like you're likely to face How can you maintain

619
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: access to food, water, and communication? How will you interact

620
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: with other groups? What skills do you currently have? What

621
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 2: skills do you wish you had? Can you learn those skills?

622
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: How will you foster care and address specific needs of

623
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: individuals in your community? How will your community defend itself?

624
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: And how can we resist despair and maintain access to joy?

625
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: Which I think that last one really gets lost a lot.

626
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, people forget about that one, but it's important

627
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: even in like really dark places, like I've attended civil wars, right,

628
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: Like maintaining access to joways important. Like I've sat with

629
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: people in Kurdistan and sung songs and played tempbole, which

630
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: is like I think the English word is ood. It's

631
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: an instrument and wild drones were vomited and so we

632
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: didn't want to go outside at night gy and like,

633
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: let me tell you, it's a lot better if you

634
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 1: have people to sing songs with and sitting on your own.

635
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm putting a song bock in my go back now,

636
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 2: that's that's happening.

637
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

638
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

639
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: These people had a folder, like they came equipped with

640
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: like laminated shit, like they were ready to rock. Golly. Yeah,

641
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I got, you know. Yeah, that's

642
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: a great place for people to start, and we're going

643
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: to be covering a lot more of this stuff, so

644
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: like you will hear more about water and food and

645
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: all the other things that we spoke about. Will try

646
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: and do at least one of these episodes a month,

647
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: and then where can people find you if they have questions,

648
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Speaker 1: if they want to listen to other episodes, maybe if

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Speaker 1: the world is dying or otherwise reach out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to hear more about anything that

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Speaker 2: I've talked about, then you can listen to Live Like

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Speaker 2: the World Is Dying wherever you get podcasts, where an

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Speaker 2: entirely listener supported podcast with zero ad breaks. And you

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Speaker 2: can find more of what our publishers, Strangers and a

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Speaker 2: Tangled Wilderness does, including books and other podcasts we put

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00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: out at Tangled Wilderness dot org. Or you can support

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00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: us on Patreon dot com slash Strangers and a Tangled Wilderness.

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Speaker 2: And if you want to ask me personally about things,

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Speaker 2: you can find me on Instagram at Shadowtale Artificery, where

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Speaker 2: you can see other stuff that I do that isn't

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Speaker 2: this cool?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Yeah, thanks? It could happen here is a

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Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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Speaker 2: cool Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

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Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you

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Speaker 2: can now find sources for it could happen here, listed

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Speaker 2: directly in episode descriptions.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening,