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Speaker 1: Okay. Hi. Oh hello Catherine, Hello Chelsea. Yeah, good afternoon, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Good morning. We have some very exciting news, Dear Chelsea.

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Speaker 1: The podcast you are currently listening to has been named

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Speaker 1: a Webby Honoree in the podcast general series Advice and

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Speaker 1: how To category. Who congratulations, congratulations Chelsea. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Earning the distinction of Webby Honoree, that's what it's called,

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Speaker 1: as recognized by the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences,

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Speaker 1: is a significant achievement, granted to only the top twenty

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Speaker 1: of more than fourteen thousand, three hundred projects submitted in

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Speaker 1: this year's petition. So that is a very exciting little award.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, how I love it. I love getting

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Speaker 1: nominated for awards. It's a whole new thing for me. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's a little bit of recognition.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of fun. I love an atta boy like

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Speaker 1: I love a pat on the back. So this is

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Speaker 1: just a wonderful way to get one of those. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I agree, thank you very much. Yes, what else, Katherine, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing my Dear Chelsea hat ches in. You guys

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Speaker 1: are Dear Chelsea. Merch is in. It's available on my

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Speaker 1: website at Chelsea Handler dot com. It's very exciting. Oh

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Speaker 1: I should also tell you this. So the very first

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Speaker 1: day that I wore my Dear Chelsea Lemon yellow T shirt,

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Speaker 1: I went for a hike. My husband and I were

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Speaker 1: hiking in Griffith Park and a woman came up to

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Speaker 1: me and she pointed at my shirt and she goes,

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Speaker 1: I have that in my ears right now. And I

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Speaker 1: was really confused. And then my husband was like, Katherine,

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Speaker 1: she said, she's listening to you, like this podcast right now.

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Speaker 1: It's on your shirt. And I was like, oh, that's cute.

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Speaker 1: It was very wonder why you were so confused. I was, well,

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Speaker 1: it was like the ear in. It was like, that's

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Speaker 1: in my ears right now. I was like, wait, I

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Speaker 1: don't understand. But she had earbuds in and it was

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Speaker 1: a whole thing. But it was very cute, and I

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Speaker 1: was cute. I love that people listen to it. I

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Speaker 1: always forget, you know, you leave here and then you

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Speaker 1: get that you like, even did a podcast. So it's

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Speaker 1: nice when people say, oh my god, I love your podcast,

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Speaker 1: or I I've called in, or I've written in. Somebody

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Speaker 1: tried to hand me their submission the other day, So

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Speaker 1: I gotta get that to you as soon as possible,

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Speaker 1: just so everybody knows. Katherine handles the submissions and there,

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Speaker 1: how do you submit again, Dear Chelsea Project at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com. Don't send it to Dear Chelsea. That's a

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Speaker 1: very sweet woman who's not us and who's obviously annoyed

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Speaker 1: by getting all of our emails. But she's like, I

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Speaker 1: feel bad. I want to make sure that these get

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Speaker 1: to you. So Dear Chelsea Project at gmail dot com,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I read every single one that comes in

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Speaker 1: so and actually I have received several emails about our

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Speaker 1: Amy Schumer episode and there was one specific little thing

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Speaker 1: that was mentioned on the episode that we wanted a

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Speaker 1: lot of people wanted to make sure that we corrected,

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Speaker 1: which you know, we're here to learn to so I

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Speaker 1: think that's great, Ashley says, Dear Chelsea. I love, love

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Speaker 1: love your show. You have the topics you cover, It

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Speaker 1: helps so many people, and I love listening every week.

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Speaker 1: I'm writing to respectfully ask you for a correction to

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Speaker 1: your episode with Amy Schumer. It was educational and vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: and your conversation on the autistic community and later in

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Speaker 1: life diagnoses will change people's lives for the better. In

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Speaker 1: the episode, it was mentioned that autism can't be diagnosed

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Speaker 1: until around age five or six, which is incorrect. I'm

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Speaker 1: a speech and language pathologist who works with children aged

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Speaker 1: two to fourteen, many of whom are artistic. You can

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Speaker 1: seek diagnosis as early as age two. Early intervention is

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Speaker 1: key for many families, and often the stigma of autism

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Speaker 1: keeps families from getting a diagnosis until much later. My

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Speaker 1: goal in my practice is always to put children in

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Speaker 1: their families first, and with all the advocacy Amy does,

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Speaker 1: I want everyone to be armed with the most accurate

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Speaker 1: information possible. Thanks for your consideration, Ashley. God damn it, Amy,

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Speaker 1: God damn it, Amy. Why she always getting me in trouble?

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Speaker 1: On I'm getting people in trouble, and then I've had

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Speaker 1: Amy Schumer. Okay, so you can get diagnosis early. As

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Speaker 1: to thank you for your letter, thank you for your correction.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate that, and yes, we want to get out

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Speaker 1: accurate information to everybody. Absolutely, early intervention, Guys, early intervention.

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Speaker 1: I wish somebody would have intervened with me earlier than

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Speaker 1: they did, because I really just I could have used

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Speaker 1: some sort of diagnosis when I was younger. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what my diagnosis is, but I could have used

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Speaker 1: some help. I feel like we're as we have expanding

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Speaker 1: conversations about everything in the public domain. There are so

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Speaker 1: many things and I'm like, oh, wait, I have this.

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Speaker 1: I have that, Like it's because of podcasts and one

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Speaker 1: in particular that I was like, Oh, I have anxiety.

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Speaker 1: That's what that feeling is. Yeah, we're actually knowing the

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Speaker 1: difference between anxiety and like, you know, anxiety encompasses so

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Speaker 1: many different things, like being annoyed with people is anxiety.

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Speaker 1: I always had anxieties like oh, social anxiety and inability

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Speaker 1: to so chalize or perform or go out or stage

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Speaker 1: fright like that kind of thing. And it's actually much

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Speaker 1: more nuanced than that. There is a whole spectrum of

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Speaker 1: anxiety that you can suffer from, and it can present

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Speaker 1: in many different ways in different people. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: eating his anxiety. Sometimes. Doing drugs is anxiety sometimes, or

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Speaker 1: a celebration can be either. Chelsea, do you have any

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Speaker 1: tour dates that you want to come? Yes. I added

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Speaker 1: a show in Saratoga Saratoga Mountain Winery. I added a

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Speaker 1: second show in Nashville, Nashville is where I am shooting

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Speaker 1: my next special, so there will be two shows now

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Speaker 1: in Nashville. And I am also performing at the Just

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Speaker 1: for Laughs Comedy Festival in Montreal. Everyone has been asking

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Speaker 1: for Montreal dates to all of my Canadian friends. That

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Speaker 1: is July, i will be at the Montreal Just for Laughs.

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Speaker 1: I'm hosting a gala, and then I also have another

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Speaker 1: can I have two dates in Vancouver Friday August twelve

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Speaker 1: to shows in Vancouver and then Saturday August and Sunday

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Speaker 1: August fourteen. Tickets are available for Calgary in Alberta, and

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Speaker 1: I'm also adding a show Saturday October eight in Niagara Falls,

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Speaker 1: which is Ontario. So those are my Canadian dates coming up.

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Speaker 1: And then this week I'm starting back on tour. So

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Speaker 1: Thursday April I'm in Cedar Rapids, then I'm in Des

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Speaker 1: Moines and I'm coming to Omaha, Nebraska on Saturday night.

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Speaker 1: So and then the week after that is Louisville, Kentucky. St.

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Speaker 1: Louis Missouri and two shows in Kansas City. So check

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Speaker 1: Chelsea Handler dot com for your tickets. I'm back on tour.

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Speaker 1: Vaccinated in Horny. Let's get down to business. It's just great.

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Speaker 1: It's just great. I'm just back from Vegas, so I'm

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Speaker 1: looking a little peckish or peaked, one of those words

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Speaker 1: they both apply. Actually, I'm hungry and tired. We went

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Speaker 1: to Whistler to celebrate my friend and his birthday. That

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Speaker 1: was Saturday. A very fun Sunday night was the Grammys

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Speaker 1: in Vegas, which we flew out to with all of

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Speaker 1: our friends from Whistler. Then we celebrated Joe's birthday. After

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Speaker 1: the Grammys. We had a after party for him with

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Speaker 1: DJ terb his one of his besties, Deejaying, and it

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Speaker 1: was so much fun. And then we did it again Monday,

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Speaker 1: and then we did it again Tuesday, and we had

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Speaker 1: activities like dune bugging in the desert for all of

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Speaker 1: our guests. We had about seventy people there. So I

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Speaker 1: am fresh off of a flight from Vegas. I just landed.

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Speaker 1: I'm here today and talking abounding to talk to my

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Speaker 1: to our very special guest for our final episode, which

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Speaker 1: is our season finale of season two. We'll be back shortly.

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Speaker 1: We won't take that long of a break. But our

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Speaker 1: finale guest is none other than my psychiatrist, Dr. Dan Siegel,

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Speaker 1: it's very exciting. It's very exciting to have him on,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to help us with a couple of

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Speaker 1: sort of trickier questions that I've had because I obviously

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Speaker 1: to explain to every all of my listeners. Obviously I

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Speaker 1: can help with many things, and I think I know

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Speaker 1: a lot about a lot of things, and I also

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Speaker 1: know that I don't know a lot about some important things.

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Speaker 1: So when there is heavier advice to be given where

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Speaker 1: we do need a professional, I obviously tried to implement

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Speaker 1: one every few episodes so we can catch up with

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Speaker 1: the callers who I was not feeling confident enough or

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Speaker 1: you weren't feeling confident enough to help. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I've got so many compliments on you this weekend. My

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Speaker 1: sister was also saying, I was on the phone with

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Speaker 1: her last night just how much she loves your voice

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Speaker 1: and be how well rounded you are. She was like, god,

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Speaker 1: Katherine just knows a little bit about everything. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, I know, she's like a general practitioner. That's

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Speaker 1: so great. I mean, I guess I told her finances

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Speaker 1: your specialty, because that's where you really come a love.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that would actually make everyone in my family.

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Speaker 1: My dad has a tax attorneys that would make him

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Speaker 1: laugh very very hard. But oh that's so great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I love to research. I love to fall

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Speaker 1: down an internet rabbit hole. So it's finally paying off.

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Speaker 1: It really is. Now that you've got this Emmy Webby Award.

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Speaker 1: I mean I slept and said, Emmy, we can get Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's for us. Excellent, excellent. Well shall we welcome Dr Dan?

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Speaker 1: I know Dr Dan during the course of this interview

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Speaker 1: will mention several of his books, but do we want

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Speaker 1: to also maybe at the end we can mention all

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Speaker 1: the books because his books are helpful, and I would

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Speaker 1: like to just be on the record and say there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of them are parenting books. And I've

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Speaker 1: read three parenting books from him, So you are an

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Speaker 1: expert in parenting. Well, I mean it was more for

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Speaker 1: Burton Bernie's and we know how that turned out. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you could apply parenting

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Speaker 1: books to animals, but that's what I was after. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think they can be as sassy as teenagers. Like

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Speaker 1: Mimsy isn't a very teenagers stage right now. She just

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Speaker 1: plants her feet when she doesn't want to go home

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Speaker 1: on a walk. Yeah, Bernie's does that all the time.

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Speaker 1: She Bernie's won't step on certain materials, like, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: like certain surfaces. So she's stops and then you have

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Speaker 1: to basically choke her to pull her over it. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't like sand, she doesn't like cement. That's just like

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Speaker 1: anything that's dirty. Really, Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know

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Speaker 1: where she got that from. Must be, it must be.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So today's guest it has a

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Speaker 1: medical degree from Harvard. He's a clinical professor of psychiatry

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Speaker 1: at the U c l A School of Medicine and

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Speaker 1: the founding co director of the Mindful Awareness Research Center

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Speaker 1: at U c l A. He is a multiple time

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Speaker 1: New York Times best selling author, a neuropsychiatrist and interpersonal neurobiologist,

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Speaker 1: Dr Dan Siegel. Oh my god, look who it is? Hi?

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Speaker 1: How are you? Long time? You know? Ceci? I know?

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Speaker 1: How are you you? I am very well. This is

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Speaker 1: my co host Catherine, who I think he's spoken to. Hi,

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Speaker 1: cats Aine, nice to see you. Like Wise, likewise, Dan

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Speaker 1: uses a standing desk, Katherine, So if his motion is

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Speaker 1: giving you motion sickness, let him know. Yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: stop if you want. It's I like walking, but if

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Speaker 1: you want me to stop, I can stop. No, that's fine.

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Speaker 1: I'm fine with it. Although, Katherine, are you okay with it?

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Speaker 1: I think I'm okay with it. If I do get

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Speaker 1: motion sickness, I will let you know. I love the

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Speaker 1: idea of getting motion signess from someone else's motion. What

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Speaker 1: does an interpersonal neurobiologists mean? Dan? You know? Interpersonal neurobiology

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Speaker 1: is a phrase for a framework that combines all different

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Speaker 1: ways of knowing, like the different fields of science or

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Speaker 1: studies of meditation what are called contemplative insights with indigenous

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Speaker 1: practices indigenous wisdom, and we bring it all together and say,

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Speaker 1: if there's one reality, can everybody join in the tent

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Speaker 1: and have a conversation that's collaborative so we can see

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Speaker 1: the wisdom from all these different points of view. Oh, interesting,

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Speaker 1: is that a new field? Yeah, it's a new framework.

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Speaker 1: I introduced it in so it's relatively new compared to

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Speaker 1: some other things. But it's new, especially in the notion

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Speaker 1: that it's not trying to replace an existing point of view.

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Speaker 1: It's trying to say, there's so many views from thousands

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Speaker 1: of years ago or from dozens of years ago, and

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Speaker 1: if they're all exploring the nature of truth, could we

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Speaker 1: see if they all fit together somehow? There's a common

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Speaker 1: ground that EO. Wilson, the writer calls concilience. So we

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Speaker 1: look for the concilience or common ground across independent pursuits

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Speaker 1: of knowledge. Oh wow, I'm we're really leveling up this episode,

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Speaker 1: Catherine buckle In. So that relates to actually one of

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Speaker 1: the questions that I want to ask you, but I'll

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Speaker 1: ask that later, but it relates to it. Okay, great,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love when you're ask me questions.

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Speaker 1: It's so great to see you, I gotta say, Jesse. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's always good to see you, Always good to see you.

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Speaker 1: I I spoke to you a few months ago because

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Speaker 1: I'm in a new relationship and about the adjustment to

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Speaker 1: be in a relationship with somebody, to spend so much

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Speaker 1: time with somebody when I'm so used to being so

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Speaker 1: kind of independent and alone. And I wanted to mention

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Speaker 1: because you and I have had conversation once. And I

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Speaker 1: can say this because it's it's private until I publicize it,

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Speaker 1: so I'll say it. But we talked about I remember

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Speaker 1: there was a period of time where I was telling

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Speaker 1: you that I just I was like, I just want

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Speaker 1: to go to bed at like eight o'clock every night.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not in the mood to hang out.

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Speaker 1: I just want to be in bed all the time.

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Speaker 1: And I was asking you, do you think I'm depressed?

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Speaker 1: And I was single at the time, and you said, saliently,

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Speaker 1: I think that if someone were in your life that

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Speaker 1: you were excited about, you wouldn't want to go to

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Speaker 1: bed at seven or eight o'clock. And it's I still

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Speaker 1: like to go to bed at seven or eight o'clock.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are times when I can't, where of

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Speaker 1: course I don't because he's a night owl, and we

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Speaker 1: compromise a lot. But the other night, I remember we

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Speaker 1: came home. He was taping two of his shows at

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Speaker 1: the Forum in l A, his Netflix special, so they

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Speaker 1: were big nights out and we were out soil one

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Speaker 1: in the morning that we were outstill five in the morning.

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Speaker 1: And on the Sunday we were planning to go to

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Speaker 1: all these Oscar parties and I woke up Sunday I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm done. I can't. I can't socialize anymore. And that night,

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Speaker 1: and you know, Joe wakes up. My boyfriend has more

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Speaker 1: energy than a battery pack. I mean, it is unbelievable

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Speaker 1: what this guy is willing to do all day long

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Speaker 1: on no sleep. It's just crazy. I've never seen any

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Speaker 1: human being operate like this. He's got different DNA. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: that night, he was like going somewhere. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go to dinner with his family, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I really just want to go to bed at seven

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Speaker 1: or eight o'clock. And I remember the conversation you and

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Speaker 1: I had and I thought, oh, what does this mean

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Speaker 1: that I still want this? Because I have this kind

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Speaker 1: of element now to my personality where I want to

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Speaker 1: hunker down, you know, where I want to get in

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Speaker 1: bed and watch TV and just build myself a little nest.

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Speaker 1: And I know when you do that often or too much,

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Speaker 1: it becomes it does become a pattern where it feels

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Speaker 1: like you are depressed. Well, now, so what's the part

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Speaker 1: where you're calling it depression? Well, I think when I

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Speaker 1: was doing it consistently. Now I do it, you know,

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Speaker 1: on a Sunday night, you know, or you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't do it as frequently, so it doesn't feel as

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Speaker 1: like bad. Because when you do it consistently, and I

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Speaker 1: think it was also maybe a product of COVID as well,

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Speaker 1: that I was just like, there's nothing going on. It's

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Speaker 1: just easier to get stoned and you know, get into

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Speaker 1: bed and whatever. But it was becoming a pattern that

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Speaker 1: I didn't like about myself. It just didn't feel I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel alive. I felt like I was slightly depressed.

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Speaker 1: And I've never really dealt with any depression to the

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Speaker 1: level where I had to really like take anything for it.

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Speaker 1: Or I don't know, I guess I I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's a question or just an observation, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, you were,

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Speaker 1: You're raising a couple of really important issues. I mean, one,

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Speaker 1: when you use the word depression, we should realize that

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Speaker 1: there are people in the world who who have really

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Speaker 1: serious ways where they get the experience of you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe going to bed early or even having a hard

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Speaker 1: time falling asleep. It can go either way. Um their

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Speaker 1: sleep can be interrupted, they can get up early, or

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Speaker 1: they can sleep really a long time. So sleep is

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Speaker 1: a big issue to talk about with this thing called

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Speaker 1: major depression. But in addition, you know, they have low energy.

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Speaker 1: They have something called an hedonia, which means and is

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Speaker 1: without hedonia's pleasure, So they don't get pleasure in things

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Speaker 1: that used to give them pleasure. And also they don't

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Speaker 1: get pleasure in anticipating doing something fun, so they kind

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Speaker 1: of lose their jouis d viv their their their joy

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Speaker 1: of living. It kind of goes away. They start thinking

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Speaker 1: kind of really down thoughts like I'm no good, I'm

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Speaker 1: guilty of things that I'm not even guilty of, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a horrible person, and there's no future for me,

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Speaker 1: there's no hope, and then I start feeling helpless. So

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Speaker 1: for any of us who have worked on a suicide

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Speaker 1: prevention service, when some of these serious depression calls you,

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Speaker 1: you can feel it in the tone of their voice

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Speaker 1: is kind of like flat and there's a huge despair

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Speaker 1: there that makes suicide a serious risk. So if anyone's

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Speaker 1: hearing us and your experience of those, please reach out

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Speaker 1: for help to a mental health professional. If suicide is

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Speaker 1: something you're thinking about, you know, please reach out to

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Speaker 1: a suicide prevention service because the great news about depression

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Speaker 1: is that it's treatable, and even though you may feel hopeless,

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Speaker 1: there's hope right around the corner. And part of it

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Speaker 1: actually is the connection we talked about. So when I

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Speaker 1: said to you, I think if you had a connection

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Speaker 1: with someone that matters to you in your life, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that I thought you were depressed. But some people

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Speaker 1: do get depressed because they have no connection, and it's

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Speaker 1: really loneliness, deep deep loneliness, and our community are larger

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Speaker 1: society now doesn't really support people having connections with each other.

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Speaker 1: You know. The the current US Surgeon General wrote a

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Speaker 1: beautiful book called Together about this sad epidemic we have

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Speaker 1: where we have so much material wealth, but we don't

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Speaker 1: have much relational wealth. People are so isolated from each other,

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Speaker 1: so you know, that's that's a separate sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: So being lonely can make you feel horrible and despairing,

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Speaker 1: but it might not be called major depression, but it

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Speaker 1: still feels terrible, and we need to help people with that.

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Speaker 1: And then there's you know, just what's called dysphoria, which

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Speaker 1: is where you just feel yucky about your life. This

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Speaker 1: is bad for is how you feel. And I'm dysphoric,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I think anyone who reads the news

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Speaker 1: can get dysphoric because we're in a rough place in

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Speaker 1: the world now, so our our body is going to

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Speaker 1: respond emotionally, and emotion, you know, is basically three things

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Speaker 1: woven together. It's relationships, the body's response, and meaning. Those

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Speaker 1: three things are really what emotion is. So if someone says, oh,

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Speaker 1: my emotion it is horrible, I feel down. What's going

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Speaker 1: on with the world. Yeah, let's let's name it so

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Speaker 1: we can frame it like in a picture frame and

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Speaker 1: say that's what it is. Let's try to participate, you know,

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Speaker 1: in social activism. Let's try to do something to really

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Speaker 1: feel empowered, to actually have what's called agency, or I

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Speaker 1: can be an agent of action to do something. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of people these days are feeling hopeless, and

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Speaker 1: they can call it depressed, but that gets people mixed

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Speaker 1: up with a serious psychiatric condition rather than the world

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Speaker 1: is in a really tough spot. So we can feel hopeless,

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Speaker 1: Let's talk to each other about it, because in working

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Speaker 1: collectively we can actually move through that to what Joanna Macy,

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Speaker 1: a beautiful writer, calls active hope. So this is a

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Speaker 1: way you can take that word depression and see it

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Speaker 1: as either a serious disorder that sometimes these medications or

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Speaker 1: other treatments, or a more moderate condition where you know

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Speaker 1: psychotherapy can be helpful, or a way we're using that

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Speaker 1: word to describe loneliness and then having a change in

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Speaker 1: in your participation in life. You know, like people in

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Speaker 1: a a for example, they get an instant community through

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Speaker 1: alcoholics anonymous meetings, and their feeling of a loneliness and

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Speaker 1: despair can dissolve a way because they go to a

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Speaker 1: regular meeting. Like a relative of mind is a recovering

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Speaker 1: alcoholic and he goes to meeting seven days a week,

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Speaker 1: and he's like the most unlnely person you want to

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Speaker 1: find because he's got a whole community every day that

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Speaker 1: he's actively a part of, very meaningful conversations. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like dysphoric. That's a good way to describe it, because

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Speaker 1: I think for many of us, especially with the events

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Speaker 1: of the last few years, it's it's like a low

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Speaker 1: level of dysphoria, you know, it's and it can feel

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Speaker 1: it feels maybe like depression because it's not a common feeling.

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Speaker 1: I know for me, I've never felt that kind of

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Speaker 1: listlessness where you're just like it's on we You're just

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Speaker 1: like I don't I can't get it up for anything.

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Speaker 1: I'm not that excited about anything that's happening. And I

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Speaker 1: definitely did remove reading the news from my repertoire after

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Speaker 1: a while because I just I read too many. It

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Speaker 1: was too obvious what it does to your brain. And

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Speaker 1: obviously now with the events, the most recent events in

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Speaker 1: Ukraine and Russia invading Ukraine, like that is something that

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Speaker 1: is a human being. It's our responsibility, I believe to

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Speaker 1: be up to speed and to understand and to be

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Speaker 1: actively involved in doing whatever it is that you may

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Speaker 1: be able to do, you know, whether that's donating money

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Speaker 1: or volunteering in some way, or just being mindful of

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Speaker 1: what's happening in the world and meditating on it every

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Speaker 1: day whatever, like small contribution you think is f I

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Speaker 1: fine for you, or big contribution, but the political aspect,

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Speaker 1: it's just too sickening. So I realized that that was

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Speaker 1: just contributing to my kind of darkness for a long

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Speaker 1: time and had to remove remove that. And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like it's too bad, But it's an addiction. It's

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Speaker 1: just like anything else. It's just like being addicted to

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Speaker 1: TikTok or Instagram or mind ae scrolling through your phone

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Speaker 1: on social media. That is also an addiction, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I don't like. I don't like the way that

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Speaker 1: makes me feel either. And I'm very mindful of how perusing. Like.

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Speaker 1: You know, if I'm reading a book for two hours,

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Speaker 1: I come away with a much different feeling and much

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Speaker 1: greater self assured nous and self esteem than I do

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Speaker 1: when I'm wasting my time reading gossip or reading you know,

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Speaker 1: the internet, Like I I know now what the components

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Speaker 1: are that that triggered me or take me to kind

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Speaker 1: of a low energy, vibrational place exactly. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're describing an awareness of how you're responding. Your body

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Speaker 1: is responding, your emotions are responding, and then in that

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Speaker 1: awareness you've beautifully created a space so you can say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of addicted to these social media things, and

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Speaker 1: I notice I feel really bad. Wow. When I take

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Speaker 1: the time to reflect on that, I can name it. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I feel bad when I do this social media. I

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Speaker 1: could frame it say Okay, what do I want to

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Speaker 1: do about it? I'm not going to do it as much.

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Speaker 1: That's an empowered mind you're talking about that you have,

425
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: and it's beautiful here you describe it and a lot

426
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: of people. And if you've seen the Social Dilemma documentary,

427
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, the people who designed social media studied addiction,

428
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: and they intentionally create stuff on your screens to capture eyeballs,

429
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 1: to capture your time, focusing your attention on the thing

430
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: whatever it is. That wasn't by accident, it was by intent. Yeah.

431
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: But what's so astonishing is that everybody is aware of

432
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: that and has been made aware of that, yet we

433
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: still allow ourselves to operate like that, Like people like,

434
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: I know, it's crazy, d DA. It's like, well, wait,

435
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: you're just a cognitive wheel if you're just allowing people

436
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: to manipulate your brain, right. Well, And and part of

437
00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: the reason why that addiction what's called interimate reinforcement. If

438
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: you keep on giving positive reinforcement over and over again,

439
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: after a while, it isn't so addicting. But intermittent reinforcement

440
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: where I give you a reward, then three next times

441
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: I don't. Then I give you one, then eight times

442
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: next I don't. Then the ninth time you get a reward,

443
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: you don't know what it's gonna happen, So it really

444
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: pulls you in. That's number one. The other thing which

445
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: is the other side of it is that our brains

446
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: are incredibly social. So there's all sorts of studies I

447
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: can tell you about, but but the summary of all

448
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: of them basically is we are social creatures. That's no surprise.

449
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: You didn't need to do brain studies to know that.

450
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: But when you look at the brain, areas involved in

451
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: feeling accepted. And I can tell you one study that

452
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: is so cool. When you're accepted, it activates this dopamine release.

453
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: It's very rewarding. That's what the dopammune is for. That

454
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: was good. Let me do it again, Let me do

455
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: it again, Let me do it again. But then when

456
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: you sense that you're not accepted, like you're not getting

457
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: as many hits on your social media or whatever like that,

458
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: the part of the brain, it's called the dorsal anterior singulate,

459
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: the part of the brain that registers social rejection. I

460
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: call it feeling of being inadequate, like I'm not fitting

461
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: in with the social group. It's exactly the same part

462
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: of the brain as if someone's stabbing you with a knife.

463
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: It hurts literally in the brain. It's the same part

464
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: of the brain social rejection, physical pain, same part of

465
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: the brain. Now when you take that, you go wow, Okay.

466
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: So you're always trying to see how can I fit in?

467
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: How do I compare? How do I fit in? How

468
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: do I compare? Do I belong? Do I not belong?

469
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: You know, so you're trying not to feel the pain.

470
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: You're trying to find membership in a in a modern

471
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: society as we talked about earlier, where we're so alone.

472
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: So you combine those two things, the intermittent reinforcement, all

473
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: the other ways they know about addiction with the social brain,

474
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: and it is a money maker because then you're gonna

475
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: get so much time. I think about fifteen years ago,

476
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 1: we didn't have these things, and now everyone's got them. Yeah,

477
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: I know people are like, oh, we're gonna keep our

478
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: kids off social media, We're gonna keep them off of iPads.

479
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get any of that until they're ten, twelve, fifteen.

480
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: I have a friend who waited for her kids to

481
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 1: get a phone until I think they were fourteen, And

482
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: it's like, what does that do? Because once you get it,

483
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: once you're in, you're in, right. I mean I even

484
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: see it in my two kids, you know, one was

485
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: he's old enough he's thirty two two not have had

486
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: that part of his adolescence. The others twenty eight and

487
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: she did. And you can even see in their different

488
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: groups of friends, you know, they deal with social media

489
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: in different ways, the younger one. More. I'll tell you

490
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: a sad thing. I was having lunch with Caroline, my

491
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: my wife. We were having a nice lunch in New York.

492
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: It was a great restaurant everything. Then these people come

493
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: sitting next to us with this one year old kid,

494
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 1: and it was really cute, and they were from another

495
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: country and it was her birthday, so it was the

496
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: birthday party. So they put out this presents, just one

497
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: sitting in the high chair. They handed her a smartphone.

498
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: For the rest of the so called birthday party lunch,

499
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: every one of them is on their separate device, and

500
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: Caroline and I are going, oh my god. So I

501
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: took out my phone to take a picture because I

502
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: wanted to put it up on social media. She goes,

503
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: don't do that, you know, which is right. I shouldn't

504
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: expose them, although I did get a picture where you

505
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: couldn't see identity, But anyway, you really should know better

506
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: than that. First. I mean, but I wanted to share

507
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: on social media how scary social media can be. Because

508
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: this kid, now, at one, you should have got up

509
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: to them and said, hey, these are my credentials and yeah,

510
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: and said listen, I am a doctor that specializes in this.

511
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: I have a degree from Harvard. I'm a neuropsychiatrist. Do

512
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: you understand the damage you are doing to your child's brain?

513
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: Remember what you're saying next time, I'm going to do that? Yeah,

514
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: come on, I mean, think about the impact that would

515
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: have had. Yeah. Maybe it's unwelcome, but I mean you're

516
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: doing them a favor, you know, at least giving them

517
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: the information that they may not be privy too. What's

518
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: so interesting, Chelsea, because there are times when I wonder

519
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: about doing that, offering un requested suggestions. Now my kids

520
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: are now adults, so that's that's a whole parenting adult

521
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: children thing where you actually intentionally don't do it. But

522
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: as a professional and a member of our human family,

523
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: when do I offer stuff like that? So it's a

524
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 1: little tricky. I've I've tried it a few times and

525
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: it often does not go off well. So what I

526
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: do is I keep a lot of my extra parenting

527
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: books in the car and then I just like hand

528
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: them out for free, like you know Halloween, you know,

529
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: trigger Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess you know nobody. I

530
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: mean most people would say, don't give unsolicited advice. I

531
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: obviously subscribe to a different theory. I think that sometimes

532
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: I can hit somebody. I mean not always, but sometimes

533
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: you can get somebody who really hears you and and

534
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: you're doing them a service or a favor, you know.

535
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: I mean that is sad. Yeah, But you know, when

536
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: you and I first met, I really was impressed with

537
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: how you like to learn new stuff. What in you

538
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: really empowers you to have such a focus on lifelong learning,

539
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: because when you came to me, you weren't like an

540
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: adolescent coming to me for therapy. You know, I'm a

541
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: child adolescent and adult therapist, and adolescent can struggle with things.

542
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: You know. You were a full on adult accomplished a lot,

543
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: but you came to learn more, you know, and it

544
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: was it's such a beautiful thing that I think life

545
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: will be the death of me. Your book illustrates. But

546
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: what is it that you can teach all of us

547
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: about your lifelong learning nature? Um? Well, I mean, thank you.

548
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge compliment. I mean, I don't

549
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: know that it's really I think I just I'm very curious,

550
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, Like I have a curiosity that I've always

551
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: had which has gotten me into lots of trouble as

552
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: a child, like asking impertinent questions, but being really curious

553
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: about people's lives. And I love interpersonal dynamics, like I

554
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: just love like when I meet a family, like if

555
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: I'm on occasion and I get to meet brothers and

556
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: sisters together with their parents and watching the dynamics and

557
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: like how they function. I just will never get tired

558
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: of that. And because I'm some from such a big

559
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: family and we have so many additional family members, because

560
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: people get married and hook up and have boyfriends and

561
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: girlfriends and children, it just gets more and more complex.

562
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: And so for me, it was about becoming a better,

563
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: more self aware, fuller person. But curiosity, I think, you know,

564
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: I could listen to you talk about the brain and

565
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: science for hours because I find that fascinating too, you know.

566
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean there are things I don't find fascinating, like bitcoin,

567
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: you know that is when I talk about that, it's like, okay,

568
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: I don't have I mean I had someone explained an

569
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: n F T to me finally where I was able

570
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: to get understand from the beginning to the end, and

571
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, I want to I

572
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: want to pay you for that explanation because I now

573
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: understand what an n f T is. Okay, well, I

574
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: i'd have you tell me that, but we won't. We'll

575
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: save that for another We'll save that for a private conversation.

576
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: But thank you. I mean, I don't know, I really

577
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: don't know how to answer that, but I do think

578
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: that you know, when you ask questions, you're you're signing

579
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: up for just like more knowledge, right, You're yea, And

580
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: especially if you have the luxury of going to someone

581
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: like you you have so much experience, it's like it's

582
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: a win win situation. Yes, it's going to be painful

583
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: at times when you're doing inner work, of course, because

584
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: you have to face things about yourself that are not

585
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: pleasant and that are humiliating or embarrassing or however you

586
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: want to frame that. But bravery gets you to a

587
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: better place in life. I think you know, being brave

588
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: about finding out about yourself. I think your journey and therapy,

589
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: it isn't everyone's experience that they're so basically open to change.

590
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: And I remember there was a moment and you say

591
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: this in the book, so I can I can share it.

592
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: You got very emotional about something, and I think there

593
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: was an awareness that you felt shouldn't be emotionally, shouldn't

594
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: be crying, You shouldn't have it right. One is lifelong learning,

595
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: but the other is openness to change. Well, yes, I

596
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: would encourage everyone to always be curious to learn. I

597
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: mean learning is knowledge and knowledge is power and I

598
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: want to be poweraful Okay, so should we go ahead

599
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: and take some colors? I think that's a great idea,

600
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: And I'm going to make us take a quick break

601
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: before I do that. I love breaks, but let's take one. Excellent.

602
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: We had a call, all right, Katherine, that's going to

603
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: call back in because it's a man who's transition from

604
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: being a woman and he has a three year old

605
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: daughter with his wife, and he was asking when the

606
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: appropriate time is to explain all of those things to her,

607
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: and I thought, we have Dan coming up. I think

608
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: you'd be better suited to answer that question instead of me.

609
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: So I think we were able to get Alex on

610
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: the phone today, right, Catherine, Yes, his three year old

611
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: daughter Sutton. He has a bottom surgery coming up in

612
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: the next year and a half, and so he's wondering

613
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: how to address those things with Sutton. So Hi Alex, Hello,

614
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: Hi Alex. Yeah, it's nice to meet you. Nice to

615
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: meet you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, well, when

616
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: you were on last time, I was like, oh, you

617
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: know what I you know, we had a great conversation,

618
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: but I thought we have my doctor coming on next

619
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: and he would be better suited since he specializes in

620
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: adolescent brain development and childhood all of this stuff. So, yeah,

621
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: he's here, so we were we thought maybe you could

622
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: give him a summary of your situation so he could

623
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: weigh in for sure. Yeah, absolutely, thank you. So the

624
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: situation really is is I am I am three year old,

625
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: and I am on the cusp of going through the

626
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: consultation process to have my next major surgery as being

627
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: a transgender, and I really am going to be embarking

628
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: upon a long journey of about three to four surgeries

629
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: to have everything happened, and it usually takes about a

630
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: year year and a half in long recovery times. And

631
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to do this early in in Sutton's development

632
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: so that it wasn't kind of a core memory for her.

633
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: But I'm just kind of teetering on on how much

634
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: to be to tell a three year old a four

635
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: year old about what type of surgery I'm having, the

636
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: impact that it's going to have to her life, as

637
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: well as what healing time is, because it's not like

638
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm sick or going through anything that's that's something that

639
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: she should be worried about. More So, this is a

640
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: great part of my journey, but it's going to be

641
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: impactful for her, So I just want to make sure

642
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: that I'm expressing both sides of it and the reality

643
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: of it, but also in a way that she's going

644
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: to understand what's happening to Danny. Well. She's so lucky

645
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: to have you as a parent, Alex, because your intuition

646
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: of tuning in and getting a feeling of transparency that

647
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: a family without secrets is a family that has you

648
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: could call it a coherent narrative that as a narrative

649
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 1: about whatever is going on, even if it's about something

650
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: wasn't expected, which is usually where stories come from. You

651
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: know is really important and what is your heart and

652
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: your gut? Literally we have three brains. You have a

653
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: brain in your head. You have a brain in your heart,

654
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: you have a brain in your gut. And what is

655
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: your heart brain and your gut brain? What are they

656
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: telling your head brain that has the words to speak,

657
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: what are they signaling to you? So I suppose if

658
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: I was to refer to my heart, uh, I would

659
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: say that I want to make sure that she feels

660
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: comforted in in those times when I'm healing and I,

661
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, can't can't be around her as much, can't

662
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: play with her own so much or engage with her

663
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: as she expects. And then I guess, my my gut

664
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: is kind of telling me to be a little bit

665
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: more worried about kind of what the impact is going

666
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: to have and and what I guess the optics are

667
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: are a big thing. Um, optics of her going back

668
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: to daycare or talking about what our family looks like

669
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: at that time, or her having to do everything with

670
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: mom because I won't be able to get out of

671
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: the house as well for for that amount of time.

672
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just want her to feel like like

673
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm still there just as I am every single day

674
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: now with being as able as I am. That's fantastic.

675
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 1: And you know, these two brains when they send their

676
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: wisdom up to your head brain, which has kind of

677
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: logic and thinking about things in that way, what does

678
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: your head brain say about the whole developmental timing of

679
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: when to speak with her. I suppose my my headbrain

680
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: is kind of kind of being more logical hopefully it's

681
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: it's it's on my side, but being more logical in

682
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: the way that and telling me that it's it's it's

683
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: going to be okay, like this is only going to

684
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: be a blip and what our family development looks like.

685
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: And I hope that what comes out of it is

686
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: that he sees that my happiness continues to grow on

687
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: my personal journey and that our family just becomes more

688
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of united, and that when she looks back on

689
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: the time, yes, it was trying in the grand scheme

690
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: of how we had to schedule things, and I wasn't

691
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: there for you know, going and running outside as much.

692
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: But after the healing, life will go back to quote

693
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: unquote normal and I will just have more happiness and

694
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: more understanding of where how I walk in the world.

695
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: So that hopefully just makes it easier for her and

696
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: for our family to progress as as a unit. That's

697
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: so beautiful. Well, I mean, Alex, for me, you've kind

698
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 1: of answered the question in the deepest way of what

699
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: feels right to you personally, what feels right to you

700
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: if your your daughter, and then you know when you're

701
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: turning to Chelsea and you know, turning to me, you know,

702
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: as a person who writes about development, here's just added

703
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: on top of your wisdom, I would just add the

704
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: following things. The way you're think approaching the notion of

705
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: a family story, the family narrative. And I don't say

706
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: story like a pretend story. I mean we are narrative creatures.

707
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: We tell the story of who we are. And some

708
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: families never do that, and there are all sorts of

709
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: secrets and all sorts of things that are never talked about,

710
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, and then that shuts things down. I mean, Chelsea,

711
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: we could talk about that about when your your brother

712
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: died that you've written about so powerfully in your narrative

713
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: of letting that come out and be the story. So Alex,

714
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: for you and for your whole family, everything can be

715
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: our teacher. You know, life happens, stuff that's challenging happens,

716
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 1: and if we see things that are not expected as

717
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: challenges rather than as threats. Then we bring as a

718
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: parent a very different attitude, like saying, you know, we

719
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: didn't expect this to happen. Now, how you then make

720
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: that health promoting growth promoting stress or distress is what

721
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: I think your beautiful question is doing. You're saying this

722
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: is going to be stressful, that's fine. Life is that's

723
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: meaningful and stressful. How do we allow this to turn

724
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: into a positive, growth promoting, challenging experience rather than a threat?

725
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: And the answer is what you've already told us. You're

726
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: ready to be fully present with your daughter. You're being

727
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: fully present with yourself, and so you know you could

728
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: turn to the people who are involved in the surgery

729
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: and the centers you're working with and ask them this question,

730
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: to which I urge you to do. From my point

731
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: of view, it's not my area of specialty, but as

732
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: a child specialist, what I would say is this is

733
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: every child's a little different terms of their temperament, and

734
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: every child a little different in terms of their attachment

735
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: to different caregivers. But the commonality across temperament and attachment

736
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: is to tell a story that makes sense of things.

737
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: So in a book I wrote called parenting from the

738
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: inside out. It's sort of t reaches you how to

739
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: bring those stories. Or I wrote that with Mary Hartzel.

740
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: A book I wrote with Tina Payne Bryson is called

741
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: The Power of Showing Up. Those two books would be

742
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: great ones for you to actually read before you tell

743
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: her the story, because they show that whenever whatever the age,

744
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: people ask this about kids are adopted, when should I

745
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: tell my adopted kids? Whenever? You bring it to three four,

746
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: she's old enough now to be able to hear a story,

747
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: as you know, do you want to hear it again

748
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: and again and again to agad and so you have

749
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: to be ready to like be repeating yourself. But that's fine.

750
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 1: And when she sees the love in your heart, when

751
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: she feels that your gut is really behind this and

752
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 1: your head is now bringing the words to make a story,

753
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: makes sense. She's ready at three unless there's some of

754
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: the other issue that says, let's hold it off. But

755
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: if the surgery is happening soon, then telling the story

756
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: even having you know toys that allow you know, enact

757
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: a story. And here's what I would say. This is

758
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: not just about the surgery, but about the general idea

759
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: of transitioning is people they don't understand that gender identity

760
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: is different than assigned sex, whether you have a penis

761
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: or vagina. When I used to be in pediatrics and

762
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: we go to the delivery room to help with the baby,

763
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: you'd see the outer manifestation and say boy or girl.

764
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: But gender identity is actually along an entire continuum because

765
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: the brain of mammals can be hugely female, which it

766
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: starts out as in all of us. But then the

767
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: way the testosterone that's secreted by the testicles crosses the

768
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: blood brain barrier into various degrees masculizes that brain to

769
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: be a teeny bit masculine but mostly feminine, or middle

770
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: way both ways or all the way masculine. Your gender

771
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: identity is based on that, and it's not yes or no.

772
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: It's not like a switch on or off, you know,

773
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: boy or girl. So just explaining it that way, even

774
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: like a switch, you say, what we look like for

775
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: most of us, of us outwardly when we're born, is

776
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: like a switch. It's on or off, it's boy or girl.

777
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: But actually gender identities not like that. It's more like

778
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: a thermostat where we have all these degrees and you

779
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: can't tell a person's gender identity from the outside. And

780
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: I had one gender identity and my assigned sex with

781
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: something else. So I'm in the good fortune of making

782
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: sense of that, and so I'm going to make my

783
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: outside match my inside. That's the story, right, So she

784
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: at three, she's gonna get that. And when I work

785
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: with kids who are like four or five, who are

786
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: assigned gender is one thing, but our gender identity is

787
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: the other. I talked to them about that and the

788
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: parents say, oh, but this is gonna be challenging. Go yeah,

789
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: but this is the way it is. And this person

790
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: could be incredibly healthy and happy if you, as their parents,

791
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: let them see, this is just what happened. And life

792
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: is about always exploring and learning and growing and this

793
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing and it works out fine. Whereas

794
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: is you know, if people say no, no, no, you

795
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: can't do that, that's when it's a problem. So is

796
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: that part of the what you've learned in your journey? Absolutely,

797
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: And making sure that having a daughter that's kind of

798
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: going through this journey as a part of my journey,

799
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: I feel it's my responsibility as her parent to make

800
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: sure that the environments that she is in the people

801
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: have that positive outlook and that's what I'm trying to

802
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: do as well, which is why it's just nerve racking,

803
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, raising a kid in this day and age.

804
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: And I'm from We're in a small town in West Michigan,

805
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: so um, it's a little bit difficult. But I think

806
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: exactly like you said, creating that narrative for my family

807
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: that makes a positive space no matter what challenges come

808
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: about is is a great way to put it. Because

809
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 1: no one writes that story or that narrative, but but us, Yeah,

810
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. You know you might enjoy also and giving

811
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: you these references. But there's a book called Brainstorm I

812
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: wrote for adolescence which talks about how parents can approach

813
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: when a child themselves is having a different This is

814
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: I think with sexual orientation issue, but the same thing.

815
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: You know, parents have one expectation, a kid comes out

816
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: the other way. How that works out. This will be

817
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: the flip side where you're going to come as the

818
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: parent to teach your child that what she may be

819
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: learning in school or in television is one extreme and

820
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: that is actually more subtle. And so she has the

821
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: incredible fortune of having you as a parent who will

822
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: guide her through a deeper notion of the way things

823
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: actually are, which is a beautiful gift you're gonna get her.

824
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate that, and I appreciate your advice,

825
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: and thank you for for having me so that I

826
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: can have that conversation and get that. I appreciate it. Well.

827
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: I hope we'll be able to check in with you

828
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: and see how it all goes. Thank you, Hi, Alex,

829
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: thank you so much. That was perfect awesome. I was

830
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: wonderful really connecting the dots here. Yeah, and I loved

831
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: what you said to about gender being so separate from

832
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: the actual physical sex. It actually goes with another question

833
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: that someone wrote in, but this one really directly relates

834
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: to what you were saying. So this question is from Monica,

835
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: whose child Kira, has told Monica that they'd like to

836
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: go by day them pronounced so. Monica says, Dear Chelsea

837
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 1: love the podcast. We have a fifteen year old daughter

838
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: who came out to us as non binary a few

839
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: months ago. She tells us that all of her friends

840
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: referred to her as they slashed them. A couple of

841
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: years ago, she told us she was bisexual. I laughed

842
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: and told her that it was a trend. I didn't

843
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: handle that well, obviously trying to do this one better.

844
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: We live in Boulder, Colorado, in a very liberal setting,

845
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 1: where it's hard to tell if this is a trendy

846
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: choice or an actual feeling that she's going with. Several

847
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: of her friends are either bisexual, non binary, or trans.

848
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: We love that this generation can explore their sexuality, unlike

849
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: we were able to do growing up. The hard part

850
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: is the labels. I feel like at this point in

851
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: her life she doesn't have to label her sexuality. Am

852
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: I wrong? My husband and I don't feel comfortable referring

853
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: to her as they slash them. We're both very open

854
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: and liberal. We believe that people should love whomever they

855
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: want to love to find happiness. For some reason, we're

856
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: having a hard time with this one. We support her

857
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: in every single way, and whoever she wants to love

858
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: would completely support. She's single at the moment. The issue

859
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: is the pronouns. We've talked to her about this and

860
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: have told her that we support her, but we don't

861
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: feel comfortable switching pronouns at this point. She says she understands.

862
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: Are my husband and I complete assholes? Thanks? For your time, Monica. Well,

863
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: thank you Catherine for sharing Monica's question. There's so much

864
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: to say about her reflections. The first broadest statement to

865
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: make is the more you know, the less you see.

866
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: And what that means is the way the brain is constructed.

867
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: It kind of has has a way of learning, learning, learning, learning, learning,

868
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 1: and then to speed things up, it then makes categories

869
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: which have concepts then that emerge from them in words

870
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: like boy or girl. So by the time you're you know,

871
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: very young, you figured out, okay, i'm a boy, I'm

872
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: a girl. You know that one's a boy, that one's

873
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: a girl. You know those are categories, right, and they

874
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: kind of make sense from anatomy. But as we pointed out,

875
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: you're assigned sex, which is what your external anatomy is,

876
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,479
Speaker 1: is actually not always correlated with the feeling inside of

877
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: who you are or the feeling of who you're sexually

878
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: aroused by. That often comes up initially. You can feel

879
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: that when you're four or five. Then it kind of

880
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: goes quiet for a little while, but then it gets

881
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: really active around eleven and twelve thirteen when adolescence hits. So,

882
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: you know, sexual orientation is the phrase we use for

883
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: who you are sexually attracted to, and so it can

884
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: be for people of your same assigned sex and you

885
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: call that one thing or different assigned sex, and we

886
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: call that something else. And so being open to your

887
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: sexual orientation who you're attracted to, that's one thing. So

888
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: when you use a word like bisexual, that's different than

889
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: the they them stories. So that should we should be

890
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: really clear about that. So that they them is about

891
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: gender identity. What I'd like to do if Monica heard,

892
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 1: ask her, but I'll ask you, Katherine and you Chelsea

893
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: about this. You know, people have asked me to put

894
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: my gender identity in my little box at the bottom

895
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: of a zoom call or any kind of platform. My

896
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: mom and I thought about it, and I thought, you know,

897
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: I actually don't feel like particularly he. I don't feel

898
00:48:55,239 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: like a she, I don't feel like they. Actually I

899
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: barely feel like a Dan. I know that's kind of

900
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: an illusion too. So I've been putting a b C D,

901
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: which is like an abbreviation for a body called Dan,

902
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: you know, because even that's an illusion. You know, we're

903
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: all kind of manifestations of the same essence popping up

904
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: in a body. For about a hundred years, so a

905
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: hundred Jesus Dan. Yeah, well that's a long time, I know,

906
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: but I can decious. Okay, fine, So anyway, let's just

907
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: put it that way, you know. So I say that

908
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: because the world needs us to broaden our identity from

909
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: just the bodies were in and realize in terms of

910
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: racial justice, social justice issues, and racism. You know, we're

911
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: part of one human family, and and also we're part

912
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: of the family of all living beings in terms of

913
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 1: what we're destroying bio diversity and the climate. So yeah,

914
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: they say, say whether he or she or they? And

915
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: I go, well, actually I want to say none of

916
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: the above. A lot to write, and then it gets

917
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: people angry. So when I don't put it on my

918
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,919
Speaker 1: little name tag, it's not it's not because I'm being

919
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: like dismissive of it. I actually I don't want to

920
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: be put in a vine. So I don't know how

921
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 1: do you, the two of you feel when people ask

922
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: you to do that, because it's it's a personal, very

923
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: personal thing. Catherine, you identify, right, you label that I

924
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: know on your emails and yeah, I do. I. I

925
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: do it really as a support for people who may

926
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: not use traditional pronouns, and it was tricky for me

927
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 1: in the beginning. I have a few friends who are

928
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: non binary, and it was tricky in the beginning, And

929
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: now just after practicing, it's sort of suddenly feels like

930
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: the most natural thing in the world. Like said to

931
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: my husband's day. You know, we're going to our friend

932
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: Ash's birthday and it's at you know, seven o'clock, and

933
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: they want us to be there. Da da da da,

934
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: And it just suddenly feels like the most natural thing

935
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: in the world to use those pronouns for someone else.

936
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: It takes a little bit of practice, but you can

937
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: come around. And more importantly, it's important to respect people's

938
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: decisions about themselves. Whether it's a fad or a trend.

939
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: That's not your decision either. Even though you're a parent,

940
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: you don't get to decide if it's a fat or

941
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: a trend. But respecting your child's decision and respecting their

942
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: choices goes a long way into the future of your

943
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: relationship with your child. When you give them agency and

944
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: you give them license to be themselves, then it's not

945
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: going to be a problem if in five years she's

946
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: like he or she or they decides that they want

947
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: to be referred to as a girl again, or that

948
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: they're not they don't feel non binary or any of it.

949
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: But I think you are doing your child a disservice

950
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: when you're not respecting something that is not an easy

951
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: thing for them to say. It's not easy for that.

952
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: You have to think about that, you know, and you

953
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 1: can say you're supportive, but that you're not. You don't

954
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: feel comfortable calling them they is actually not really being supportive. Yeah.

955
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is it's not a huge

956
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: thing to give away. You know, it's not changing who

957
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: your child is fundamentally, it's not. It's not a wild

958
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: leap to say, you know what, I'm just gonna go

959
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: with this. I'm going to say they them. I might

960
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: slip up, but I'm gonna try my best. And you know,

961
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 1: supporting your child's in whatever way you can. And like

962
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: Chelsea said, these things can pass or maybe they won't.

963
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: And you're allowing your child to discover who they are

964
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: by supporting who they are right now, because that is

965
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: always going to change. Whether their pronouns change or not,

966
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: they're going to continue to change. Yeah, I concur with

967
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: what you're both saying. And I think it becomes challenging

968
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: when parents get really upset when some schools, like here

969
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, they'll have a whole day of discussing

970
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: gender identity and that you have choices to names you

971
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: used and you should look inward, which I think is

972
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: actually be fantastic, And some parents get all agitated about

973
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: it because they think it is making a child be confused,

974
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: but it's actually I think just informing a child and

975
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: freeing a child, like like Monica's daughter is or I

976
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: don't know if you use the words daughter here, Monica's child.

977
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,760
Speaker 1: Let's say that that way. So we have a moment

978
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 1: where as a parent, you can take a deep breath

979
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 1: and say, if your child comes to you, to empower

980
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: them to explore the actual biological reality that gender identity

981
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 1: is independent of assigned sex at birth. People. I remember

982
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: when I was a kid where that wasn't a part

983
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 1: of our discussion. They suffered so much. And when schools

984
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: introduced this or this podcast or all the ways we

985
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: can just make it a part of our conversation. It

986
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: is a biological fact that gender identity develops in its

987
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: own way that can be independent in an extreme or

988
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: subtly or or aligned with your assigned sex. So to

989
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: name it as something that's very real in our lives,

990
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: I think is going to really help with everyone. Even

991
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: if your gender identity matches you're assigned sex, you're going

992
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 1: to understand that there are other people where that's not

993
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: the case, and instead of feeling uncomfortable like Monica feels,

994
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: which you know, we feel uncomfortable when things don't match

995
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,959
Speaker 1: your expectations. So I hope listening to this conversation will

996
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: help Monica and hurt child's father to feel we're learning

997
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: something to and to be lifelong learners is a really

998
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: important stance to take. Our last color today is Katie.

999
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: Katie says, Dear Chelsea, the last nearly two years of

1000
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 1: my life have been the most intense, devastating and transformational

1001
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: time of my entire twenty one years. In sept member

1002
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: of my older brother and only sibling died extremely suddenly

1003
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: from a brain aneurism at two years old. Needless to say,

1004
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: this loss has been extremely difficult to navigate and my

1005
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: entire outlook on life has completely changed. I know you

1006
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: were very young when you lost your brother, and I

1007
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: feel as though we were similar in how that type

1008
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: of loss affected us. After the first few months of

1009
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 1: complete shock and fear that I would lose my parents

1010
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: to heartbreak over the death of their son, I started

1011
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: to get really angry at the world, which was completely

1012
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: unlike my old self. I have done a lot of

1013
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: therapy to overcome some of that anger, but I still

1014
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: struggle daily to comprehend how my smart, wonderful and seemingly

1015
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: perfectly healthy brother is gone and never coming back. I

1016
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: also find meeting new people to be emotionally draining, as

1017
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: sometimes the do you have siblings question comes up, and

1018
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: without fail, this always makes me spiral. I feel nervous

1019
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: opening up about my brother because I feel like people

1020
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: in their early twenties are not equipped to talk about loss,

1021
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: and it's almost taboo in some ways. What has helped

1022
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: you with accepting and understanding such severe and sudden loss

1023
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: at such a young age, And how do I combat

1024
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: how his death has caused me to struggle with coping

1025
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: and other areas of my life. Katie m Hi, Katie, Hi, Hi, Katie.

1026
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: It's your lucky day because my psychiatrist Dan is here

1027
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 1: with us as our guest today who helped guide me

1028
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: through my grief and my new reality, which I had,

1029
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of delayed grief. So it's good

1030
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 1: that you're talking about it not so long after it's happening,

1031
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: and that you're facing these issues because it's it is

1032
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: a big, big, unexpected obstacle that has happened to you,

1033
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, and it's not something that you're not going

1034
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: to get through, but it's so difficult and only other

1035
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: people who have lost the sibling can really relate or understand.

1036
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: So Dan, do you want to take the lead on

1037
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 1: this and I'll chime in sure. First of all, Katie,

1038
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much for reaching out to Chelsea to

1039
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: really share your experience and share your question. I'll ask you,

1040
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: when you were actually putting this question together and sending

1041
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: it off, what were you feeling inside of you that

1042
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: allowed you to I feel like you could articulate in

1043
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: a sense of called public with it. What was going

1044
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: on inside of you? It was, honestly, Chelsea, because I

1045
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: watched Evolution with my mom and I don't think either

1046
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: of us had ever really seen somebody talk about death

1047
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: like so raw and just so open like that, And

1048
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just like really spoke to me

1049
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: and we didn't say a word. The entire time all

1050
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: we did was cry and laugh, and yeah, I don't know,

1051
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: I just felt so kind of like I felt empowered

1052
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: by it, and I was like, you know what, I'd

1053
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: love to talk to her because there was a lot

1054
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: of parallels between what you were saying and what I've

1055
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: definitely been feeling, and so yeah, I definitely felt like

1056
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: there was like a bit of a connection there. And

1057
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: like you guys said, like, not a lot of people

1058
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: go through what I've gone through and and Chelsea has,

1059
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: so Yeah, definitely that was empowering for me when you

1060
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: saw that someone could really look at the death of

1061
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: a sibling. In this case, you know, you both shared

1062
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: the loss of your brothers. Was there something in what

1063
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: Chelsea shared an evolution that especially spoke to you? Yeah? Absolutely.

1064
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 1: I think the main thing was like the anger, because

1065
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: I was never an angry person. I was always really calm,

1066
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: you know, quite put together and everything, and then I

1067
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: started to have these feelings of anger when the numbness

1068
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: started to go away, and it just was so unlike me,

1069
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: and I was just so kind of mad at the

1070
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: world like that. It took him because he was just

1071
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: such a wonderful, kind human and he truly just like

1072
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: he was just such a light in this world and

1073
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: it just felt so wrong. And so the anger that

1074
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: she had and how that leaks into other areas of

1075
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: your life. I think that's kind of where I drew

1076
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: like a lot, Like I just I just totally connected

1077
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: to that because it was like, whoa, this is affecting

1078
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: how I see every area of my life, not just

1079
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: death and loss. It was you know, in school with

1080
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: friends everything, and bitterness too when people talked about like

1081
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: their siblings and it was like, I'm self aware enough

1082
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: to know, like it's not right. I don't want to

1083
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: be bitter about other people because they should get to

1084
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: express their love for their siblings that are alive, and

1085
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: and that makes me happy. I'm still happy for them,

1086
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: but I couldn't help but still feel bitter, you know,

1087
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: and angry. So definitely those feelings of anger that Chelsea

1088
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: talked about, I I definitely connected to that a lot.

1089
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: That's what made me start to realize, well, like I

1090
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: gotta I have to seek out like therapy and stuff

1091
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: like that, because I tried to do it myself or

1092
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: I think the first eight months, and yeah, it just

1093
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,919
Speaker 1: wasn't working. And I could just see down the line

1094
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 1: it would just start to get worse. I want to

1095
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: just jump in and just say, you have such a

1096
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: huge opportunity for growth right now. For you to be

1097
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: facing this so soon after it happened means like you

1098
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: have such a bigger advantage. Like I didn't face this.

1099
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: I went thirty years without being able to deal with

1100
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: my emotions. You know. So you're so young and you're vibrant,

1101
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: and you're going to be able to get through this.

1102
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: And I just want to say something that's so important

1103
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: for you to hear. It's like you're when you think

1104
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: of how amazing your brother was and what a light

1105
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: he was in this world. He would hate to see

1106
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: you in pain. He would hate to see you feeling bitter.

1107
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: He would not want that. So in honor of him,

1108
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: you've got to do the work to get yourself out

1109
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: of that anger and bitterness, because you want to be

1110
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: able to celebrate a life that he had and live

1111
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: your life with him in it, in honor of him

1112
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: and with him, because he's still with you. You know,

1113
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: just because he's he's gone doesn't mean he's gone from you.

1114
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: He's still within you and your parents, and that is

1115
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing and that is the light that you

1116
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: should think about getting to spread when you move forward

1117
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: in your life. Yeah. Absolutely, And he truly would be

1118
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: so unhappy. He would be so upset if he saw

1119
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: like this affect us long term because again, like just

1120
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: such a selfless human being and he just would not

1121
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: He would not he be angry with us. To be honest,

1122
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: if you if we at it get us down for

1123
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: a really long time, he would not be happy with us,

1124
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: for sure. It's such a beautiful invitation, Katie, that you're

1125
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: inviting us to really look at this question what helped?

1126
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,439
Speaker 1: And Chelsea, you're bringing up, you know, this notion of

1127
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: of what the sibling with the brother would actually want

1128
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 1: for you. The experience of grief, which is the word

1129
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: we use for when someone we love that's really important

1130
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: in our life dies or goes away and we can't

1131
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: reach them. That loss is huge. So grief goes through

1132
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: stages and it really invites you to bring into awareness

1133
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: all the different feelings you're having. And as Chelsea points out,

1134
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: you know you are doing that, Katie, and your your

1135
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: notion of self awareness is really important and there are

1136
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: there are things you can do to expand that. You know,

1137
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: with Chelsea we would do meditation in particularly this thing

1138
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: called the wheel of awareness. You can get this this

1139
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: book called Aware or Becoming Aware, the workbook where you

1140
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: will learn to actually enrich that ability to be aware

1141
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: and that can help the grief process. To just let

1142
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: the anger there be in awareness. You don't have to

1143
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,360
Speaker 1: do anything with it. It can just teach you something.

1144
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: The other emotions that are really basic when something like

1145
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: this happens our sadness and fear. So a loss like

1146
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: this at a young age that can rock your world

1147
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: because you don't expect someone young to die. You expect

1148
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: someone older, way older to die. So when something unexpected

1149
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: like that happens, it can lead to fear. It can

1150
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: lead to sadness, and it can lead to anger where

1151
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: the fear is like, oh my god, things aren't safe, nothing,

1152
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: I can't rely on anything. The sadness is there was

1153
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: a connection that's ripped from me, and I have such

1154
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: a longing to be with my brother, but it's just

1155
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: it's not there. When in fact, it's just like Chelsea said,

1156
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: he's inside you, but him being alive in his body

1157
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: now that's changed. So you want to deal with that feeling.

1158
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 1: You can't just call him up and talk to his

1159
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: actual self. You can deal with the inner self of

1160
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: your brother. And the anger, you know, is about something

1161
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: is wrong that needs to be right. It right. So

1162
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 1: anger is like this drive to correct, you know. Sadness

1163
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: is like a drive to connect, and in many ways,

1164
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: fear is a drive to protect right. Those are the

1165
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: three in the brain. They're deep, deep in the brain,

1166
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: so they're really really foundational. As you're pointing out, the

1167
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: anger then starts spreading over all these things. So the

1168
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: idea of finding a practice, whether it's in therapy or

1169
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: doing like a meditation that gives you time to just

1170
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: be with your emotions. And then the grief process. Once

1171
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: you give yourself that respect to just feel what you feel,

1172
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: talk about it right in a journal about it, do meditative,

1173
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: reflect the reflection on it, then it will have its

1174
01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 1: natural course. Don't worry about the timing, but do give

1175
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: respect to all the emotions are there, and they will

1176
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: then take their natural path. And in many ways, grief

1177
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: as it goes forward becomes meaning making. That is to say,

1178
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: I didn't plan for my brother to die, but my

1179
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: brother would want me to actually make sense of how

1180
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: this has impacted me. And as Chelsea has done, you know,

1181
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: with her wonderful work, Now to take a loss that

1182
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: really as as you shared with the world, Chelsea, you know,

1183
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: your way of dealing with that pain was to shut

1184
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: it off the emotions. But now to share with the world.

1185
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,200
Speaker 1: You don't know, Katie, how the sadness and and and

1186
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: really profound loss of your brother dying unexpectedly like this.

1187
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: It was no one's fault and urisms happened. All the

1188
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: ways that you can bring the emotional learning from this

1189
01:04:57,160 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: will be a meaning that you can make. And there's

1190
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: a number of things about hope and about joy that

1191
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: there are wonderful books on this, as it called a

1192
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: book called the Book of Hope and a Book of

1193
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: Joy that I think you'd love because what it says

1194
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: is that the sorrows in the world, whether it's a

1195
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: personal loss or the loss and biodiversity, what we're facing,

1196
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: the climate, or the challenges of social justice, all these

1197
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: can get us all angry, sad, fearful. And what we

1198
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: want to do is take those emotions and allow ourselves

1199
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: to feel them fully, but then really keep hope alive,

1200
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: with kind of active hope that A writer named Joe

1201
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: Animasy calls it active hope, where you're really turning that

1202
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: pain into actually something positive in the world, and not

1203
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: only having hope, but having a sense of joy. And

1204
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: I think if your brother were watching us now and

1205
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: he said, my dear sister Katie can hold on to

1206
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: hope and can be joyful in this life, what would

1207
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: he feel about that? Hmm. Yeah, that's a really good point,

1208
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 1: aliceonven need Tears, That's really good. Yeah, I I honestly

1209
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: like you. You bring up a really good point too,

1210
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: and the fact that like I have grown like so

1211
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: much from this loss, and like the way I view

1212
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: the world in good ways to and and my desire

1213
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 1: to make my parents proud, even though I know I

1214
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: would make them proud if I did nothing, because they're

1215
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: just the most wonderful people in the entire world. But yeah,

1216
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: like he really has allowed me to see the world

1217
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: so much, so much clearer, and I just feel like

1218
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to do such great things because I've grown

1219
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: so much from this. And yeah, you're right, like it

1220
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:36,439
Speaker 1: is it is a choice to to wake up every

1221
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 1: single day and you know, choose happiness despite all the pain,

1222
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: and that's what I've really been working on is just

1223
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:44,959
Speaker 1: choosing to be happy because at the end of the day,

1224
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, like the random cruelty of him being taken away,

1225
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: it has to be a choice for me to to

1226
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: keep going and to do it for him and to

1227
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: do it for my parents. And I find that that's

1228
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: really helped me too, is like let letting myself feel

1229
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,919
Speaker 1: those emotions and and yeah, growing from it, like you said,

1230
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: like it it is. There's power in that. There's also

1231
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: something Dan taught me. Losing a somebody is like a robbery.

1232
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 1: You've been robbed, you know, and that's how it feels.

1233
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: It feels you're violated and you cannot make sense of it.

1234
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: But are you going to spend your entire life harboring

1235
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: such anger towards those robbers? You know what I mean?

1236
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: Because are you going to spend your energy doing that? No,

1237
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 1: you're not. You want to be a light for your parents.

1238
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 1: You want to be helped your parents heal. It's not

1239
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: your responsibility, but you can, you know, you can be

1240
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: a light for them as well. And when you're talking

1241
01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: about emotions coming up, something that Dan and I talked

1242
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 1: about a lot was like, where are you feeling something,

1243
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, are you feeling it in your chest? Do

1244
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 1: you feel it in your stomach? Being in touch with

1245
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: your body and respecting yourself enough to sit with it,

1246
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, when you're overcome, you're allowed to go outside

1247
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: and cry and sit there for twenty minutes because once

1248
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: you extinguish it, there is a lightness of being that

1249
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,960
Speaker 1: that happens. And it's when you resist your emotions where

1250
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: you get into trouble. So it's okay to feel all

1251
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: those emotions and let them out and know, okay, oh

1252
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: I'm feeling Okay, I'm feeling this. Sometimes it takes thirty

1253
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: seconds just to sit with yourself, and sometimes you need

1254
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 1: an hour. Whatever it is you need, you know you

1255
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: need and you'll know. But but being respectful of that

1256
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 1: so you're not repressing or suppressing anything so that it's

1257
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: not creeping up on you later. You know that you're

1258
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: experiencing everything and and thinking about where it is in

1259
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 1: your body, like, oh, I'm heavy in my chest right now, Okay,

1260
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm gonna cry. Okay, now I'm gonna cry.

1261
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: It sounds almost pedantic in a way, but it's so

1262
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: important to respect yourself and your emotions, and that's how

1263
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: you get through something like this in a healthy way,

1264
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: because you are going to be in a place where

1265
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: the pain is no longer as acute as it feels today.

1266
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 1: You are, That's what happens with life. You're gonna move on.

1267
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 1: There are going to be moments where you're gonna feel

1268
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: dream joy again, and you may already have, and that's

1269
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: part of healing. That's part of healing because you're still here.

1270
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: So everything that is coming up, it's just you know,

1271
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: you obviously want to be with a therapist and talking

1272
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: with somebody too. You need that kind of support right

1273
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: now for sure. Are you seeing someone right now? Yeah? Yeah,

1274
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,520
Speaker 1: I have a therapist, Yeah yeah, and she's really great. Yeah.

1275
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 1: So all of those things are helpful, and just you know,

1276
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: remembering that there is no wrong feeling or emotion. There's

1277
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 1: nothing wrong. This is all just a process and it

1278
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: doesn't last forever. No, that's really great. Thank you, And

1279
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to you as well,

1280
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: because honestly, yeah, like listening to your podcast and watching

1281
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 1: your stand up has really helped me a lot, and

1282
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 1: I just think it's so brave of you. And yeah, again,

1283
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: it really empowered me as well. Oh thank you. I'm

1284
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: so glad you called in and I'm so glad we

1285
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: had Dan here today for you, Katie. It was so

1286
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: nice to meet you as a little Dan. Thank you

1287
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: so much, Katie. Nice to meet you. Thank you so much.

1288
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks, Katie, Bye bye bye. Wow? What is sweetie? Wow? Okay,

1289
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: Well that was quite a heavy episode today. It was

1290
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: I do have one little extra thing as we move

1291
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: into this close. Kelsey emailed us and said, I recently

1292
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 1: went through a massive life change which led me to

1293
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: changing careers, moving states, and finally getting out of a

1294
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: long term toxic relationship. I read life will be the

1295
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 1: death of me, and it inspired me to get back

1296
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 1: into therapy and really try to delve into the deep

1297
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: childhood trauma. Your story resonated with me. I was sitting

1298
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: outside my therapist office today and debated going in and

1299
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 1: was questioning whether this was where I needed to be.

1300
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: I put out into the world that I needed a sign.

1301
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 1: I went into therapy and halfway through, my therapist pulled

1302
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: out an orange out of her bag, tossed it to

1303
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: me and said, I think you need this today. I

1304
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: stared at her in doc and then subsequently lost it

1305
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 1: and then had to explain that I was inspired to

1306
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: get back into therapy after reading Chelsea's book, and that

1307
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: someone tossing me an orange was an unexpected sign of

1308
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: compassion when I needed it the most, and orange unraveled

1309
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: me and gave me the sign that I'm exactly where

1310
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: I need to be. Our journeys are not the same,

1311
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: but thank you for sharing yours and inspiring me to

1312
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:24,560
Speaker 1: heal so that I can find my happy and success

1313
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: as well. It's already working. Much love and admiration, Kelsey.

1314
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that makes me cry. Dan, can you

1315
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: believe that? No, that's incredible, That is so beautiful. I

1316
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 1: was sitting the other day I got some shitty news.

1317
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,599
Speaker 1: I was sitting the other day with Joe and we

1318
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: were somewhere. Oh yeah, it was when I had to

1319
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: go to the hospital. And when the next day we

1320
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,759
Speaker 1: were sitting down, I was just like, oh my god,

1321
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: what's wrong with me? I'm so stressed out. I landed

1322
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:58,600
Speaker 1: myself in the hospital. Like I didn't think I was

1323
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 1: stressed out. And we were just sitting in this restaurant

1324
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: and at a hotel, and I was just looking at

1325
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: him like just so confused about where I was in

1326
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:08,439
Speaker 1: my life, Like I thought I was doing so great

1327
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 1: and I was on top of everything and I had

1328
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 1: learned how to deal with everything. And I looked down

1329
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 1: and there's this whole tree of oranges right behind him,

1330
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, and I go

1331
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: look and he's like, see, you're okay, You're okay, You're

1332
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: always okay. It's just a little hiccup. So I love that. Oh, Kelsey,

1333
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: thanks for sharing that with us. That was so nice,

1334
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: so emotional. I love it. Yeah, Okay, let's take a

1335
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: quick break because I just I have a new loofa

1336
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: that I want to try out on Catherine. I'm sorry,

1337
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: does that sound like workplace? A work? Workplace professionalism? Times

1338
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,560
Speaker 1: have changed and someone has to respect that, and that

1339
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: someone is me, that's right. So I apologize Catherine about

1340
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: the loofah comment. It's okay, I love, I love, I'm glad.

1341
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: I apologize to you do about the loofah comment. Gosh,

1342
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 1: that's your husband right in front of and I know

1343
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: it's okay. He wouldn't mind. It'll be fine, it'll be fine.

1344
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 1: Let's take a break, Okay, Dan, what advice do you

1345
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 1: need for me? Well, I asked you earlier, you know,

1346
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 1: how do you keep that lifelong learning approach going? And

1347
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: the related thing was how did you let yourself be

1348
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 1: open to really facing your emotional life? There? And then

1349
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: a bonus question for you, which from our relationship you'll

1350
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: probably think this is Dan is never shortwinded everybody is

1351
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: how did humor enter your life? So we can try

1352
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: to be inspired, not to be funny stand ups like

1353
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 1: you are, but to just make sure that in the

1354
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 1: face of all the challenges we keep our humor alive. Yeah. God,

1355
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can. I don't know if

1356
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 1: that's a learned thing or if that's inherent. You know,

1357
01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 1: I think I was born with that because my family

1358
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: was just we're all like that, Like sarcasm was our

1359
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: was our function, you know, like everything was sarcastic to

1360
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 1: deal with the lameness like we just are were constantly like, oh,

1361
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 1: like our parents were lame. Growing up was just lame.

1362
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: Our birthdays, our parents trying to like celebrate our birthdays

1363
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,719
Speaker 1: was lame. So we just had these built in senses

1364
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 1: of humor to cope with it. But I don't I

1365
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 1: can't really speak to whether or not you can. You know,

1366
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,640
Speaker 1: adopt it. I think it's important to remember not to

1367
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: take yourself so seriously. Right, You're not the only person

1368
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 1: on this planet. There's a million billions of things going

1369
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: on around you, and you're just What you want to

1370
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,839
Speaker 1: bring is light and happiness and joyfulness right to the table,

1371
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: to the energy field around you, to the people that

1372
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: you come in contact with. So I think humor plays

1373
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 1: into that. To be light and happy and set a

1374
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 1: tone and inspire people to be open and yeah, I

1375
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: guess you know, just try not to take yourself so seriously.

1376
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,759
Speaker 1: You gotta be able to laugh at all the bad

1377
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 1: stuff too, because there's humor and everything. Sometimes you have

1378
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: to look a little harder for it, but it's there, beautiful.

1379
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: Well that's great because that actually relates to the other

1380
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: questions that you've already answered. You know how to keep

1381
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 1: those questions going and really keep an open mind to

1382
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: grow throughout life. So, Chelsea, thank you so much. Catherine,

1383
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's really an honor to be

1384
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: here with you and really enjoy to speak with all

1385
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 1: the people who have questions today, and I feel very

1386
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: privileged to be here. It's the thing. Oh, thank you

1387
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: so much. Dan, I know that you usually charge for

1388
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:40,719
Speaker 1: this kind of advice, so I appreciate you volunteering your services. Well.

1389
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm enriched, just like working with you, Chelsea.

1390
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: This has really been a great conversation today. Thank you awesome.

1391
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Dan, I really appreciate it. I'll

1392
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: see you soon. Great, thanks Catherine, thank you so much

1393
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 1: for tuning in to Dear Chelsea season two. We'll be

1394
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: back with another season May twelfth. See you then.