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Speaker 1: I don't sue the stories of things we simply don't
Speaker 1: know the answer too. Hey there, everybody, and welcome again
Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I as always am Steve,
Speaker 1: joined as always by as always Dot dot dot, and
Speaker 1: this week, believe it or not, we have another unsolved
Speaker 1: mystery for you. This week, our mystery is the la
Speaker 1: You're on voters, also known as the disappearance of Launa
Speaker 1: Stampion and Charles Rutherford. Chuck Chuck. We're gonna use chuck
Speaker 1: uh this. But before I get into the mystery, though,
Speaker 1: this was a listeners suggestion was suggested by Susanne, So
Speaker 1: thank you, Susanne. I don't know why I didn't find
Speaker 1: this one in the list, but oh wait, the list
Speaker 1: is huge. While to find it true, it's a good mystery.
Speaker 1: So the brief overview is that Laana and Laana Laana Okay,
Speaker 1: danger zone, danger zone. That's how I have to get
Speaker 1: out of my system. I'm sorry, it's a Archer joke.
Speaker 1: I'm done the last time I'll do it. Let's go. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Laana and Chuck, we're a couple who went on
Speaker 1: a to day boat trip on the Michigan side of
Speaker 1: Lake Huron in two thousand five, and they never made
Speaker 1: it to their fast final destination. Kind of it's kind
Speaker 1: of like a Gordon Lightfoot song or Lingann's Island. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the two here on set never gives up
Speaker 1: her dead and the stores of November come early. So
Speaker 1: let's tell you a little bit about our players before
Speaker 1: we get too much into the mystery. Long of Stampion
Speaker 1: was a thirty five year old lawyer. She worked for
Speaker 1: the City of Detroit. But and and by all accounts,
Speaker 1: she tended to get men's attention, not just because she
Speaker 1: was a very pretty lady, but she was, but she
Speaker 1: also apparently had um It was a very outgoing of
Speaker 1: vivacious is what it's described as personality and attractive personality
Speaker 1: as yes, yeah, so very uh people liked her. It's
Speaker 1: too bad, Yeah, just happen. She when she got out
Speaker 1: of high school, she had initially been a model. She
Speaker 1: was on the car circuit, you know, car shows. She
Speaker 1: was car show model, and but realized that that wasn't
Speaker 1: what she wanted to just do forever. So she went
Speaker 1: back to school and became a lawyer. He can't really
Speaker 1: do that stuff forever. No, so she went to work
Speaker 1: for the City of Detroit in their law department. To
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't know what she did in the
Speaker 1: law department, Joe, thank you. How did I not figure
Speaker 1: that out? I did some research, and yeah, it turns
Speaker 1: out that lawyers do legal stuff. Is okay. Let's move
Speaker 1: over and talk briefly about Charles Rutherford Chuck. Chuck was
Speaker 1: thirty four years old, and he was also a lawyer.
Speaker 1: He was from a family of lawyers. He had He
Speaker 1: had at one point been working as a for the
Speaker 1: City of Detroit's Prosecutor's office before eventually opening his own practice,
Speaker 1: which he had been doing for I think it was
Speaker 1: about a year or two at the time that they disappeared. Uh,
Speaker 1: And he was described as a really nice guy. Um,
Speaker 1: he was evidently very in love. I think are smitten
Speaker 1: is the way that you'll see it described when you
Speaker 1: see the written accounts. Yeah, yeah, um. And they had
Speaker 1: the pair had met sometime in two thousand three, he
Speaker 1: was pretty quiet. Sorry, right, Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: that that relationship. You see that a lot. There's the
Speaker 1: quiet one in the very outgoing he was the quiet
Speaker 1: one in the relationship. They met though, and like I said,
Speaker 1: in two thousand three, and then they moved in together
Speaker 1: the following year. And I'm not really sure exactly what
Speaker 1: this means, but it's said that they like to have
Speaker 1: a few drinks. They were described as thirty something bar flies.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day they went out and
Speaker 1: had a beer, a couple of drinks. Well, that's my
Speaker 1: thing is, I don't know what what that means specifically,
Speaker 1: because I know a lot of people who in their
Speaker 1: early to mid thirties will go have a couple of
Speaker 1: drinks at the end of the day, well a couple
Speaker 1: of times a week. So I think that that's that's
Speaker 1: one of those generational things and also a Portland's thing.
Speaker 1: Like in Portland, we go out, we drink, we eat,
Speaker 1: that's what we do. That's societally, that's what we do here.
Speaker 1: A lot of places we don't have kids. There's not
Speaker 1: enough room in our houses for kids, kitchens, we can't
Speaker 1: afford them and put birds on everything, and yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't cook, there's just pickles everywhere. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: when I lived in the Midwest, for instance, Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: people in their early thirties were expected to be married
Speaker 1: with kids and young kids. So it was less of
Speaker 1: the going out culture in your early to mid thirties
Speaker 1: and more of the family life culture. So I can
Speaker 1: see how that would be brought up sometimes as meant
Speaker 1: to be an outlier. Whether we think it's an outlier
Speaker 1: or not. I mean, I don't know that that's relevant.
Speaker 1: That's that's a perspective I hadn't thought of. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: nothing nothing wrong with Yeah, I agree, Also nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with being family. Absolutely. Back to the story though, but
Speaker 1: by all, by all outward accounts to the pair were
Speaker 1: in a relatively happy relationship, and we will talk about
Speaker 1: some further details. As with every relationship, there's there's always
Speaker 1: things that aren't quite right. Well, that's called being human.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm gonna solve this. Murdered her. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that later on. Lana's father is retired from the U. S.
Speaker 1: Coast Guard, and I say that because it's always brought
Speaker 1: up about the fact that he was very diligent in
Speaker 1: teaching her boat or safety, and because they spent so
Speaker 1: much time on the water, she really liked being on
Speaker 1: the water. She was competent and she was. Yes, she
Speaker 1: was a competent behind the wheel of a boat or
Speaker 1: behind the controls. Obviously she'd probably been doing it since
Speaker 1: she was a kid, exactly, and she's you know, her
Speaker 1: family has always said that she was very serious on
Speaker 1: the when she was on the water, it was safety first.
Speaker 1: If you were gonna have drinks, you did that when
Speaker 1: you got back to the dock. Like she wasn't um
Speaker 1: flippant isn't the word. She wasn't reckless about her careless
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, absolutely, this is this is important to
Speaker 1: know because four years before she disappeared, which would be
Speaker 1: in two thousand one, Lana had bought a twenty seven
Speaker 1: foot well Craft cabin cruiser which she had named Sees Life,
Speaker 1: not Sees Life. She named it boy mcboat face I
Speaker 1: ever get about, I'm going to name it if only
Speaker 1: she she was many many many years before that. So
Speaker 1: just a quick description of her boat, because it's where
Speaker 1: the majority of our mystery takes place. Well, it was
Speaker 1: boat shaped. We know that. Thank you, Joe. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. Really, when you get down to it, isn't
Speaker 1: almost everything boat shaped. A lot of things are, most
Speaker 1: especially you can float on a piece of play, but
Speaker 1: it's not boat shaped. This argument is going nowhere. Let's
Speaker 1: get back to the story. Well, I don't know it's
Speaker 1: it's it was cabin cruiser right right, but not a
Speaker 1: lot of people know what that. But not everybody knows
Speaker 1: what that is. Here's here's a description of it. Is
Speaker 1: the boat if it is one of those boats where
Speaker 1: the rear half to two thirds is an open space. Yes,
Speaker 1: the well has seats and benches for people to hang out.
Speaker 1: There is the pilot seat where the controls are, the
Speaker 1: steering and the throttle. Almost every picture you see online
Speaker 1: of like rich, attractive people hanging out on a boat
Speaker 1: is a boat like this right pretty close. It's like
Speaker 1: the girls in bikini is sitting on the bench off
Speaker 1: the back of a boat. That's this boat. But this
Speaker 1: is the Keep in mind this boat is a single story.
Speaker 1: Because you'll see boats that have the raised or enclosed cabins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those are like yachts. This is an open cabin boat.
Speaker 1: Everything is open um. There is there is a small
Speaker 1: stairwell in the front that goes into the bow which
Speaker 1: has a small living quarters. It's the cabin. There's teeny
Speaker 1: there's a small toilet, there's a place to a fridge
Speaker 1: and a stove. And depending on the model or maybe
Speaker 1: there there's something that can be changed out. It would
Speaker 1: have bench seats at a table or a bed. I
Speaker 1: would think it was like an RV, you know how,
Speaker 1: you kind of that's what maybe changeable table. Usually usually
Speaker 1: boats like this have a the berth and right up
Speaker 1: in the bow, and then and then the dining table
Speaker 1: you know, drops and it's got cushions you can put
Speaker 1: on it, right, and then that's another bunk right usually,
Speaker 1: And that's what the pictures of this look like, is
Speaker 1: that it's it's bits. Yeah, it's not something that you
Speaker 1: live in. It's take a trip. Oh, I gotta take
Speaker 1: a wei. I go down and have someplace to sleep
Speaker 1: if you're doing one overnight or right exactly. Oh And
Speaker 1: the other thing that I will say is that because
Speaker 1: it looks cool, I always like it. This boat has
Speaker 1: a big spoiler on it off of the back end
Speaker 1: that it's actually meant to also house. You know, they
Speaker 1: have the the plastic and tarpaulin covers for cruddy weather,
Speaker 1: you could cover it up. It's got a small swim
Speaker 1: deck off the back, which is just a platform. There
Speaker 1: is a swim ladder. It's important to note that the
Speaker 1: ladder on this particular boat sits on the top of
Speaker 1: the deck that you would dive off of. It's not
Speaker 1: one of the ones that's mounted underneath or built into
Speaker 1: the actual boat, right. But it's not something that would
Speaker 1: be readily accessible from the water. Some boats have them
Speaker 1: where they're on the underside and you can just reach
Speaker 1: over and pull it, and this that's not what this
Speaker 1: boat had at all. My some of my neighbors going
Speaker 1: up at a boat very similar to this that we
Speaker 1: took out onto the river. I will the only other
Speaker 1: thing I'll say about her boat is, though we know
Speaker 1: it's a twenty seven foot well Craft Kevin Cruiser, we
Speaker 1: don't know the exact model, which makes it a little tough.
Speaker 1: I mean, when I say the exact model, okay, well,
Speaker 1: maybe it could be one or something. I tried to
Speaker 1: get really deep into the specifics to figure out details
Speaker 1: about this boat. I'm working off a lot of generalities.
Speaker 1: I kind of had to assemble it from similar boats
Speaker 1: and ones that are of the year, because we don't
Speaker 1: even know what year her boat was, so it makes
Speaker 1: it a little probably. I did not not to stop
Speaker 1: because I didn't um. So let's talk about the trip
Speaker 1: that the pair had planned. Lana and Chuck. We're planning
Speaker 1: to take a trip from her parents house, which is
Speaker 1: in Bell River, Canada, and they were gonna go head
Speaker 1: north to Mackinaw Island, which is in northern Michigan. Their
Speaker 1: route was going to take them from the southern edge
Speaker 1: of Lake St. Clair, which is a small lake connected
Speaker 1: to Lake Uron, and up the Saint Clair River into
Speaker 1: Lake uh like Uron, and then they were gonna head
Speaker 1: north up to the point where like you're on meets
Speaker 1: up with Lake Michigan. So it's about a three hundred
Speaker 1: miles or so trip. Yeah, and it's gonna take about
Speaker 1: two days. Except lake here is on the Lake of Death.
Speaker 1: It is not noticed that Joe, I'm thinking of somewhere else.
Speaker 1: I do want to point out that this is one
Speaker 1: of those times where I felt like a geography moron
Speaker 1: because of the fact that wait, their trips started in
Speaker 1: Canada and then they headed north to Michigan. It's because
Speaker 1: because I'm for the West Coast and I always look
Speaker 1: at the map and it's always the map of the
Speaker 1: US with Canada deleted, and so you just you just
Speaker 1: look at it's like, oh, well, it's kind of a
Speaker 1: straight line. Canada dips down up there. I know that now,
Speaker 1: but I felt really dumb. Anybody else just confused, that's
Speaker 1: what's going on now. I actually think that Canada should
Speaker 1: give that land back. What the hell are they doing
Speaker 1: down land further south in the US. That ain't right?
Speaker 1: Oh well, sorry to all of our Canadian listeners. As
Speaker 1: unsubscribed to the podcast, you can keep it so. On
Speaker 1: the tenth of August two thou five, Lana and Chuck
Speaker 1: launched from Bell River and they head north. They made
Speaker 1: it to Oscota, which is about a hundred fifty miles
Speaker 1: north roughly north of from their their launch point at
Speaker 1: the end of the first day, and they stopped and
Speaker 1: docked there that night. While they were there, they met
Speaker 1: a guy named Richard Bannon, and he offered to take
Speaker 1: give him a ride into town, and then he and
Speaker 1: his wife joined them for dinner and a couple of cocktails,
Speaker 1: and then he took them back to the dock that night,
Speaker 1: because they then the next morning got up and left. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did you? I didn't know he wasn't hiding on
Speaker 1: the boat somewhere. Sorry, too, are really wound up today,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty about this. They left on the morning of
Speaker 1: Thursday eleven, and they headed north and they stopped in
Speaker 1: presque Isle at about twelve thirty in the afternoon. So
Speaker 1: while they're there and they're they're getting fueled up, a
Speaker 1: guy by the name of Gene Austin was working on
Speaker 1: the dock and he had said he met the couple.
Speaker 1: They were in good spirits. The weather was turning kind
Speaker 1: of crappy. It was cold and windy, so they were
Speaker 1: They were wearing fleeces to keep war, but they were
Speaker 1: in good spirits. Uh. Lana asked him if there was
Speaker 1: any areas that she needed to avoid, and he told
Speaker 1: her about two different shallows to watch out for. She's
Speaker 1: been told him, Oh, well, I've got those in my GPS,
Speaker 1: so no big deal. And they left after they had
Speaker 1: topped off the tank and by all accounts everything was fine. Well.
Speaker 1: Were they shadowed by a mysterious figure in a black
Speaker 1: raincoat in the fedora? No, they were not wait and
Speaker 1: so the storms worth mentioning. It is so when they left,
Speaker 1: initially the weather was good and they thought they were
Speaker 1: gonna have good weather the whole time. On that second day,
Speaker 1: the weather was turned in cold. I don't know that
Speaker 1: it was actually raining, but it was windy. Uh. The
Speaker 1: seas did start to get rough. The water in the lake,
Speaker 1: I believe the next day there are reports of swells
Speaker 1: anywhere from three to five ft. Okay, so I just
Speaker 1: the day the storm is continuing to roll in. It
Speaker 1: was just crappy and cold. Should have taken a car.
Speaker 1: But Jean Austin, the guy that you know, he was
Speaker 1: talking to them on the docks, he didn't really mention. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I thought they shouldn't be going out in that
Speaker 1: weather nothing like that. So it seemed like it was fine.
Speaker 1: It was like, not ideal, but it was. It was cold.
Speaker 1: It was chilly out, but it wasn't as if they
Speaker 1: were going into hurricane force winds or anything crazy like that.
Speaker 1: It's not a big deal. Yeah, but it wasn't even
Speaker 1: at that level on that day. So that's that's when
Speaker 1: the story morning. Yes, okay, I just wanted to make
Speaker 1: sure that I was understanding correctly absolutely as Somewhere around
Speaker 1: one thirty in that afternoon, Laura called her aunt, the
Speaker 1: one who lived on mcinna Isle or Island. Sorry, it's
Speaker 1: not Issle, and she was gonna let her know. Hey.
Speaker 1: She let her know, Hey, we're a couple of hours out,
Speaker 1: so we'll be the same. Yeah, we'll be there in
Speaker 1: a couple of hours, No big deal. She then at
Speaker 1: one forty five called another aunt who lived in Florida,
Speaker 1: chatted with her and also told her that they were
Speaker 1: about two hours away from their destination. Now that's suspicious,
Speaker 1: and then it should have been one minutes. At at
Speaker 1: about two o'clock, Launa made one more phone call where
Speaker 1: she called a male friend of hers. He didn't answer
Speaker 1: the phone, but she left a one minute voicemail for him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean what she good friends with the aunt in Florida.
Speaker 1: Evidently she was pretty close with her. It's just somebody
Speaker 1: that she talked to on a regular basis. I guess
Speaker 1: it's just kind of one of those things for me
Speaker 1: where I just think, really, you know, she's on a boat,
Speaker 1: the weather is not great, she's calling all these pieces.
Speaker 1: She could be in the cabin though she could be
Speaker 1: chilling and driving the Chuck driving the ship. It's not
Speaker 1: that hard to drive a boat. It's not that hard
Speaker 1: to drive a boat. And Chuck had learned to drive
Speaker 1: the boat. So they've been living together for a year,
Speaker 1: they've been dating for at least two at that point,
Speaker 1: and she was always on the boat, so he had
Speaker 1: to have learned how to drive the boat, and if
Speaker 1: nothing else, at least open water. So then you're saying, yeah, okay, Chuck,
Speaker 1: you stay up here and you know, hate this by yourself.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go down to the cabin and make up
Speaker 1: phone calls. Yeah, but yeah, I'm sure steering the boat. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they totally did. I've done that before when
Speaker 1: on long trips here you take the wheel. I'm done
Speaker 1: with this for a while. I take a lot of
Speaker 1: boat trips occasionally, yea, I have three hour tours. Okay,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna move forward to Friday the twelve. A
Speaker 1: captain of a ship crossing like you're on saw a
Speaker 1: small boat bobbing, as he says, it, up and down
Speaker 1: in the rough sea. Ease. Yeah, that's when the swells
Speaker 1: for three to five foot. He said that he figured
Speaker 1: either the pilot of that boat was crazy or they
Speaker 1: were in trouble. So he called the coast guard to
Speaker 1: let him know that he had found this boat. Because
Speaker 1: he approached the boat and nobody was responding, he calls
Speaker 1: the coastguard. They had already been alerted to the fact
Speaker 1: that Chuck and Lana hadn't arrived the day before by
Speaker 1: Lana's dad. He had called the coastguard saying, hey, they
Speaker 1: didn't arrive. It's been hours. Something's wrong. So the coast
Speaker 1: guard go. They approached the boat. Um, nobody's on it.
Speaker 1: The boat itself was just drifting. It was eleven miles
Speaker 1: northeast of mckinnaw Island, so pretty close close ish, yeah,
Speaker 1: it called. No, Actually it's it's farther away. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's obvious that the boat had continued to travel, whether
Speaker 1: on its own power or by the the currents. It's
Speaker 1: hard to say, but yeah, I mean, it obviously had
Speaker 1: gone to me when I tracked it on the map.
Speaker 1: It looks like from the two o'clock phone call onward,
Speaker 1: the boat must have continued moving under power for some
Speaker 1: amount of time. It couldn't have just stopped, right, It
Speaker 1: couldn't that way was found or it was found it
Speaker 1: wasn't moving in quite the right direction. It wasn't but
Speaker 1: that's part of that's the currents. But the coast guard
Speaker 1: go on the boat again, nobody answers their hail. They
Speaker 1: go on the boat, they find nobody on it, and
Speaker 1: they don't really find any signs of foul play. There's
Speaker 1: not blood sprayed everywhere, or everything broken or anything crazy
Speaker 1: like that. No ax marks in the frame of the boat. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a number of strange things about the
Speaker 1: boat itself for the condition that we should talk about. Um,
Speaker 1: Devon is gonna be very excited because I've used bullet
Speaker 1: points here. The first thing we're gonna talk about is
Speaker 1: that the boat's engine was on. It was running though
Speaker 1: the boat was a neutral so it had been idling
Speaker 1: first a fair amount of time. They had to fuel
Speaker 1: up after one day, Right, they used an entire of
Speaker 1: fuel in a day and a half day, day and
Speaker 1: a half and that's its speed. I mean, boats, can
Speaker 1: you know it's like your car. Your car can idol
Speaker 1: for a long right, I mean, I guess That's kind
Speaker 1: of what I'm wondering is were they able to guess,
Speaker 1: you know, idling for this many hours, it would have
Speaker 1: used this much gas, So we think it probably though
Speaker 1: that's a good question, because yeah, I guess usage Obviously
Speaker 1: they were going under power somewhere for a while, and
Speaker 1: although you know, you never know, it might be kind
Speaker 1: of useless to try to estimate that because somebody else
Speaker 1: could have taken the boat us and refueled it. And
Speaker 1: that's true adrift, that's true. Yeah, Yeah, And I haven't
Speaker 1: seen anything that tried to plot how much fuel usage
Speaker 1: there was, because I don't know that anybody ever said
Speaker 1: and there was X amount of fuel left in the tank.
Speaker 1: I've never seen that either, So I don't know. I
Speaker 1: have to I guess I have to just assume that
Speaker 1: the coast guard probably knows they're talking about and if
Speaker 1: they thought it was well, they would have done it.
Speaker 1: I hope they probably, Yeah. And of course, another another
Speaker 1: good question to ask is if you search the boat,
Speaker 1: do you find like a spare five gallon gas scan
Speaker 1: somewhere and is it full or empty? Yeah? You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: And then again that's something I've never heard of. And
Speaker 1: another question I'd like to hear answer it is did
Speaker 1: they have any kind of dinghy or lifeboat on this
Speaker 1: thing and was it present. If they had any kind
Speaker 1: of lifeboat, it would have had to have been an inflatable.
Speaker 1: This boat is way too small to have anything but inflatable.
Speaker 1: Per The last time we talked about uh, oh is
Speaker 1: um the one we had our intern on right the
Speaker 1: emergency because we actually look I actually looked up and
Speaker 1: requirement and it sounds like Laana was, you know, pretty
Speaker 1: responsible boat owner, and so she would have been required
Speaker 1: to have an inflatable life up anything. Really. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I do know that the boat had a lot of
Speaker 1: p f d S life jackets. So besides a lot
Speaker 1: of those boats the seat cushions or technically flotation devices,
Speaker 1: but it also had four life vests on their actual
Speaker 1: life vests not the right as far as I understand,
Speaker 1: they were, because they're always referred to as p f
Speaker 1: d s, which is a personal flotation device, which to
Speaker 1: me does not infer that it was a seat cushion,
Speaker 1: but it was actually something you could put on. Well, actually, uh,
Speaker 1: p FD is anything. That's why a life jacket is
Speaker 1: a little bit distinct, just like a propeller is a
Speaker 1: little bit distinct from a screw. A propeller screw as
Speaker 1: a propeller. A propeller is not necessarily a screw, like
Speaker 1: I really hate it when he pulls out his knotic knowledge. Well,
Speaker 1: but they also make They also make and I don't
Speaker 1: I suspect they did not have this on the ship.
Speaker 1: But they do also make body suits that are personal
Speaker 1: flotation devices that are mainly for crews of ships that
Speaker 1: are going across the Atlantic. Because they're insulated, they keep
Speaker 1: you alive, they have a little bit of resources, they
Speaker 1: have lights and stuff like that. But they are also
Speaker 1: pf okay, but typically p f d s are life yes,
Speaker 1: And I think looking at the images that I've seen
Speaker 1: of this particular boat, I don't think that the seats
Speaker 1: were floatation devices. I think they were actual life jackets.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably like that she had four life
Speaker 1: jackets on the boat, and apparently she always had four
Speaker 1: on there, that's what she kept. Those four life jackets
Speaker 1: were not there when they found the boat. Those were gone.
Speaker 1: The running lights of the boat were not turned on,
Speaker 1: so they were off, but the stereo was apparently on.
Speaker 1: It's said that the stereo was on and it was
Speaker 1: turned to a Christian station, which wasn't something that the
Speaker 1: pair were known to listen to. So obviously we're talking
Speaker 1: Christian pirates here. Well, I don't, I have no I
Speaker 1: can't substantiate that anywhere. It's just you see, it's it's
Speaker 1: one of those things that you see danced. Even on
Speaker 1: top of that, I mean, if I have a radio,
Speaker 1: my radio tune to one channel, I drive two hours
Speaker 1: outside of Portland and suddenly it's a totally different thing exactly.
Speaker 1: You know. So if they were, you know, or five
Speaker 1: hours away, they had one radio station on, it could
Speaker 1: be something totally different by the time they will agree
Speaker 1: with that. Also, also, some stations will just occasionally play
Speaker 1: you something that's kind of Christian. So at the moment
Speaker 1: that you happened aboard the vote that that one song
Speaker 1: is playing something by Amy and what's your face? I
Speaker 1: can't remember her name now, anyway, possible it wasn't even
Speaker 1: a Christian, But I still like the idea of Christian pirates.
Speaker 1: We're not talk, you're you're weight, you're head of a game.
Speaker 1: The GPS unit on the boat, and there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of contention over this, and we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: this morning theories, but the GPS unit is said to
Speaker 1: have turned on around one thirty am on the twelve.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna we're gonna talk about in more depth on
Speaker 1: how that's looked at. But can we talk about how
Speaker 1: they know that? Okay, So GPS units they have, this
Speaker 1: particular GPS unit has a certain number of track points.
Speaker 1: You say, your GPS unit to log a data point
Speaker 1: every something, whether it's a distance or a time, and
Speaker 1: it stops tracking data points and sometime on the eleventh,
Speaker 1: and then suddenly at one thirty a m. On the
Speaker 1: twelve starts tracking data points again. Okay, this was a GPS,
Speaker 1: right it I can't verify that. I believe that it
Speaker 1: was a garment. Yes, okay, we'll talk more about that. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the GPS. So it was about the size of the
Speaker 1: television set absolutely. Yeah. Well it's in a two thousand
Speaker 1: four boats or two thousand one boat, so I don't
Speaker 1: know what size it was. It could have been half
Speaker 1: of the boat for all we know. It was actually
Speaker 1: the entire deck of the boat because the older GPS
Speaker 1: is were that bit they were I remember, and they
Speaker 1: didn't actually have a screen. They just had this printer
Speaker 1: that's spat out coordinates. Yeah. Actually, and the cabin is
Speaker 1: actually halfway taken up with air conditioning units and whole thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's true. Yeah, yeah, this is totally accurate.
Speaker 1: We're not making any of this up. Okay, So what
Speaker 1: else did they Okay, So more about the GPS unit though.
Speaker 1: One of the mounting knobs for the GPS unit was
Speaker 1: found jammed in the bottom of lana sneaker. Are we
Speaker 1: talking just like little knob, Like the knob that I
Speaker 1: would say is the handle of the knob would be
Speaker 1: like two inches or so around that big. I think
Speaker 1: it would be more like about this size. That's kind
Speaker 1: of excess. That's huge. That's kind of huge. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then it has a screw coming out, and then it
Speaker 1: has a screw was stuck. Yeah, and the screw head,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a flat machine screw. It's what is
Speaker 1: jammed into the bottom of her sneaker. So she had
Speaker 1: a fight with her GPS and the back of her sneaker,
Speaker 1: which was the whole sneaker obviously is on the deck,
Speaker 1: but the back of the sneaker was also torn. I like,
Speaker 1: I just have to point out no signs of foul play.
Speaker 1: Sneaker with things in it in it back, torn, no
Speaker 1: signs of foul play, totally normal, strange. While I admit
Speaker 1: that is strange, I don't know that it's actually a
Speaker 1: sign of foul play. I don't either, but I just
Speaker 1: liked the like. I guess the statement, the idea that
Speaker 1: a torn sneaker is definitely not a sign of foul play.
Speaker 1: The sneaker weeks ago. You never know, they're her favorite sneakers,
Speaker 1: gonna wear them out. I have to apologize to our
Speaker 1: listeners for having just said, like the like, it's been
Speaker 1: a long day. Well, let's talk about the like the
Speaker 1: like rope that was on the back of the boat,
Speaker 1: because there was a twenty foot rope drifting behind the boat,
Speaker 1: tied to the boat. What is that like six meters
Speaker 1: six ms? Yeah, it was trailing behind the boat. When
Speaker 1: the captain of the boat of the ship that spotted
Speaker 1: Sees Life approached the boat, he said he saw two
Speaker 1: rubber blue rubber bumpers tied to that rope. And rubber bumpers,
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with it, they're kind of round
Speaker 1: rubbery cylinder guys that you would stick between the boat
Speaker 1: and a dog. Yeah, an the answer these two tongues
Speaker 1: that stick out, and when the coast guard showed up,
Speaker 1: there was no bumpers. There was no blue bumpers tied
Speaker 1: to that rope. And I'm sorry, did we say what
Speaker 1: time that ship found the boat. He saw sometime in
Speaker 1: the morning, and the coast guard got to it sometime
Speaker 1: that morning. It's never specified exactly, but if we don't
Speaker 1: even know pre dawn dawn, I would say before noon.
Speaker 1: I believe that, yes, it was daylight when they because
Speaker 1: they found the boat. And I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons that the running lights not being on is
Speaker 1: noted because it had obviously been out there all night long.
Speaker 1: So if somebody had been on it at night, you
Speaker 1: would believe they would normally turn on the running lights.
Speaker 1: But that wasn't the case. The as I think, as
Speaker 1: we talked about a little bit before, there's a swim
Speaker 1: ladder on this boat. The swim ladder was up, so
Speaker 1: it wasn't dropped into the water. In the trash can,
Speaker 1: there was an empty bottle of vodka. It was a
Speaker 1: fifth of vodka. They've been out there for how many days?
Speaker 1: This was their second day? Okay, yep, And oh look
Speaker 1: at this, all of their personal effects and their money
Speaker 1: is accounted for, no personal belongings appeared to be missing. Well,
Speaker 1: now here's the deal. Then they say they found their
Speaker 1: their wallets and all that stuff, like you know, on
Speaker 1: the boat. They say they found their clothes on the
Speaker 1: boat where they closed below decks or are they up
Speaker 1: in the cockpit or the well of the boat. The
Speaker 1: images that I saw it gives me the impression that
Speaker 1: there was some stuff strewn around. But this is above deck.
Speaker 1: But it was like, you know, a pair of shorts
Speaker 1: and a towel or something. And I'm working for memory here.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what it was. But and I've
Speaker 1: never really seen photos of below decks. I mean, I
Speaker 1: had to go looking for similar boats to get an
Speaker 1: idea of what it looked in the bow. So I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what was where. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: seen the cats that say their clothes were found on board.
Speaker 1: I just don't wonder if it like, you know, in
Speaker 1: disarray or in their well, or didn't appear that they
Speaker 1: stripped naked before jumping into the water and dropped their
Speaker 1: clothes right there in the well, or were they're just
Speaker 1: closed stash below decks. I mean, I don't know I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't say I haven't seen anything that that says
Speaker 1: it specifically. Like I said, I've only seen a few
Speaker 1: photos of of the well of the boat when it
Speaker 1: was found. I haven't seen anything in the in the
Speaker 1: actual cabin area. UM. So obviously, of course they find
Speaker 1: this boat, the people that are supposed to be on
Speaker 1: the boat are not on the boat, so a huge
Speaker 1: search goes on. The coast guards got ships running around,
Speaker 1: they've got helicopters. The Canadian Coast Guard is doing the
Speaker 1: same thing. Her family. Lawa's family comes to the area.
Speaker 1: When they get her boat back from the coast Guard,
Speaker 1: they're using it to go around and try and find her.
Speaker 1: Thousands of square miles is this area that they're covering.
Speaker 1: Keep in mind the lake itself is like twenty three
Speaker 1: thousand square miles. It's a huge freaking lake. I got
Speaker 1: an idea, let's use a potential crime scene as a
Speaker 1: means to search for people. It was released, they they
Speaker 1: could pick it up, and they did. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: know how long they had in custody though that I mean,
Speaker 1: it must have been for a while, right, They didn't
Speaker 1: just turn around and turn it over to the I
Speaker 1: honestly don't know how long it was in custom. I mean,
Speaker 1: all I know is that the family talks about the
Speaker 1: fact that they took her boat out and they used
Speaker 1: her boat, and there's some issues that are brought up
Speaker 1: later on that they're like, we totally kept using this
Speaker 1: boat and nobody suffered any ill effects of the No.
Speaker 1: I like it better if the family goes out in
Speaker 1: the boat and they disappear, and then you know, and
Speaker 1: then more family comes out and they disappear, and yeah,
Speaker 1: the boat the boats doing it, I like that better.
Speaker 1: Can we just put that in there? No? Is it
Speaker 1: it's the carry of boats? Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It basically just like flips over, you know, and then
Speaker 1: writes itself, motors itself baft to the dock, ties itself
Speaker 1: up in that nice crappy nineteen seventies or nineteen eighties
Speaker 1: still photography where a rope wraps itself around something as
Speaker 1: it ties itself. Yeah, we'll totally set this up, guys.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna move forward in time to the August,
Speaker 1: which is two weeks later. Two women spot what they
Speaker 1: believe is a body on the rock shoal of Huron
Speaker 1: Bang and the authorities confer, come out and take the
Speaker 1: body away, and indeed confirmed that it is launa. The
Speaker 1: strange thing about the condition of her body is that
Speaker 1: she is completely naked, short of wearing her watch, a ring,
Speaker 1: and her necklace. Say that strange about that? Well? I
Speaker 1: say that strange because she her family knew that she
Speaker 1: never swam with her jewelry on, which I totally get.
Speaker 1: She always used to put it on her watch band
Speaker 1: and then attach her watch band to the wheel of
Speaker 1: the boat, right, which is really smart. Yes. The other
Speaker 1: reason is that the watch itself was a watch that
Speaker 1: somebody had given her years ago, and it was kind
Speaker 1: of a prize possession. She had recently had it cleaned
Speaker 1: and tuned, so to just jump into the water with
Speaker 1: it and blatantly knowingly destroy it was unlike her. Um.
Speaker 1: The other thing that the thing, Yes, it would have
Speaker 1: to be an extreme situation. She wouldn't just casually hop
Speaker 1: in for a swim with it on, especially the conditions
Speaker 1: what they are and the water temperature. Yeah. Um, it's
Speaker 1: it's very apparent that she was naked when she was
Speaker 1: in the water. It's not as if she went in
Speaker 1: her clothes came off of her. And that's because there
Speaker 1: were no rub marks or wear marks from the clothing,
Speaker 1: and she didn't even have any no underwear, no nothing,
Speaker 1: so it would be apparent, and there wasn't enough time
Speaker 1: for those things to have broken enough up enough forgotten
Speaker 1: water logged enough to come off on their own. Now,
Speaker 1: the only the only thing I could think of is
Speaker 1: that if she went in and then took her clothes up,
Speaker 1: because obviously swimming with clothes wet clothes is very very hard. Well,
Speaker 1: we're not in theories yet, but I will rebuke that
Speaker 1: with who the hell bothers to take off their underwear
Speaker 1: when they're taking off their heavy jeans and shirt, You
Speaker 1: don't worry about your underwear. Those are kind of inconsequential.
Speaker 1: I would believe counterpoint, she wasn't wearing any that's possible,
Speaker 1: but on a cold, blustery day, I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's the case. But we're not in theories yet, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna sideline that for a few minutes. Um So
Speaker 1: a little bit uh more about the body, it appears
Speaker 1: that there were no marks or bruises of obvious trauma
Speaker 1: that would have caused her to die. Sorry, I had
Speaker 1: one question, uh so do we know what time did
Speaker 1: the watch stop? That it's not said we don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I've never seen what the time
Speaker 1: stamp was. That that is an excellent point. And it's
Speaker 1: kind of like an indictment of American journalism that these
Speaker 1: frigging reporters who have massively more resources but watch the
Speaker 1: watch could potentially be water resistant, so then they'd have
Speaker 1: to do the math, and you know, reporters don't like math.
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of kryptonite. I just feel like you
Speaker 1: can say the watch stopped at this time and it
Speaker 1: still gives you a freely understand and you know what,
Speaker 1: the police may not have ever released that information. Possibly
Speaker 1: that's completely plausible too. But the body, like I said,
Speaker 1: there's no marks to the outward sign of obvious trauma.
Speaker 1: The medical examer does rule that she did drown that
Speaker 1: was the cause of death. The only other thing that
Speaker 1: they call out is that there was almost no alcohol
Speaker 1: in her system at all, which means it's probably from
Speaker 1: the drinks that she a few drinks she'd had the
Speaker 1: night before, but it wasn't as if she had been
Speaker 1: boozing it up on the eleventh. But she prior to her.
Speaker 1: But she also had elevated levels of carbon monoxide in
Speaker 1: her system, which we'll talk about. So I guess really
Speaker 1: where we're at now is there's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: So Chuck's body has never been found. Chuck has never
Speaker 1: been found. Let's just be clear, Yes, Chuck has never
Speaker 1: been found. Mystery is what happened on CS life that day?
Speaker 1: What happened to cause Lana ago into the water and
Speaker 1: and die? Did Chuck die that day? And if so,
Speaker 1: how and if not, where is he? Those those are
Speaker 1: our mysteries here. So let's go into theory. Let mystery.
Speaker 1: I'm tired of it already. So theory number one is
Speaker 1: that it was an accident due to skinny dipping. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is actually one that you'll see bandied about on
Speaker 1: the internet's a lot really well, no, I actually I
Speaker 1: totally understand Initially, without doing any reading on the on
Speaker 1: the conditions and all of that, people like, well, they
Speaker 1: probably decided that it would be a good idea to
Speaker 1: just jump off the boat and go skinny dipping. And
Speaker 1: I just like, real quick run through why this is
Speaker 1: a bad idea. I know it's railroading you a little
Speaker 1: bit but like, okay, in the middle of a storm,
Speaker 1: it's cold, it's the middle of the night. She didn't
Speaker 1: have any in the middle of the night, but it
Speaker 1: was the daytime whatever. It didn't have any alcohol in
Speaker 1: her system, so she was making good decisions. Also the watch,
Speaker 1: also the necklace, also the ring. No, yeah, the only
Speaker 1: thing that I'll add to that is that the air
Speaker 1: temperature was in the mid to loose sixties and the
Speaker 1: water was sixty degree although, on the other hand, which
Speaker 1: is not something that would incline me as a man
Speaker 1: to jump into the especially do not like to climb
Speaker 1: into cold water naked and come back out again. Honest
Speaker 1: with you, guys, I have at one point. Sorry if
Speaker 1: this is over sharing, it's very drunkenly gone skinny tomping
Speaker 1: on the Oregon coast in the middle of winter. So
Speaker 1: it's colder, the water's colder. But I was so drunk
Speaker 1: I didn't even feel it right, But you have to
Speaker 1: be you have to be super drunk. I think that's
Speaker 1: a good idea. Lana had almost no booze in or
Speaker 1: so that doesn't work. And to watch, Yeah, people really
Speaker 1: easily I understand why this is an easy go too
Speaker 1: thin but yeah, I just I don't think that that's
Speaker 1: that's gonna work. I mean, people also say, well, oh, well,
Speaker 1: they must have been doing that, and that's why there
Speaker 1: was a line off the boat, because that's how they
Speaker 1: were making sure the boat didn't get away from him.
Speaker 1: But I've been I've jumped off a boat. I got
Speaker 1: convinced once to jump off of an unmoored boat, and
Speaker 1: that thing, in almost no winds and on a flat lake,
Speaker 1: started to move on its own really quickly. Also, you
Speaker 1: don't put your boat in idle, you turn it off.
Speaker 1: And also you probably drop an anchor. Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of holes with this difference.
Speaker 1: Swimming you need the ladder down, you don't need the
Speaker 1: ladder to get off of the boat. That's an important
Speaker 1: part of the skinny dipping theory. But this is actually
Speaker 1: suddenly I've suddenly had a flash of realization that we've
Speaker 1: just solved the Mary Celeste. Yes, obviously, Well, now that
Speaker 1: we've changed stories, let's go to our next theory on
Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste. Yeah, so the next theory is that
Speaker 1: Chuck pushed her overboard and ran away with the circus,
Speaker 1: or actually probably they were having some domestic issues that
Speaker 1: turned into a domestic dispute. Before we go too deep
Speaker 1: in this theory, I'm sorry, maybe you're going to talk
Speaker 1: about this in the theory. Do we know what the
Speaker 1: message that Lana left for her male friend, so we
Speaker 1: know that most of it. Yes, we will, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about a little bit. Okay. So this one also is popular,
Speaker 1: and that's because it's got some anecdotal evidence to support
Speaker 1: it to sort of lay the theory out. The theory
Speaker 1: out is that Chuck peeved off at Laa for some reason,
Speaker 1: like say, maybe getting ready to break up with him, Uh,
Speaker 1: decides that he's had enough, and he shoves her overboard,
Speaker 1: and then he drives the boat somewhere and runs away. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: I gotta say, though, you know, if I were dating
Speaker 1: somebody and I was planning on breaking up with her,
Speaker 1: probably yeah, I probably wouldn't be wanting to have have
Speaker 1: this long vacation with them. I mean, at this point,
Speaker 1: I'm done with them. So people make a lot of
Speaker 1: strange decisions when they're in relationships. We can all look
Speaker 1: back and say, I was really pretty done with that,
Speaker 1: But why did we do that thing? Or why did
Speaker 1: they like this? Stuff happens logically after the fact. It's
Speaker 1: easy to say I should never have done that, But
Speaker 1: at the time your people rationalize and convince themselves to
Speaker 1: do a lot of funny things. I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: pretty easy to say, I'm going to break up with
Speaker 1: this guy on a boat in the middle of a lake,
Speaker 1: like that's a bad decision, no matter what was I'm
Speaker 1: sure she didn't plan on breaking up your boat, no,
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you're about to do it, you're
Speaker 1: not going to go into a secluded, dangerous situation with him, probably,
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Let's talk about though I know
Speaker 1: what you're talking, I know where you guys are heading
Speaker 1: with this, and let's give some of the preamble first
Speaker 1: before we get too much into that. So let's talk
Speaker 1: about Devin Um. I actually realized I've got the contents
Speaker 1: of the call, or the general information about the call
Speaker 1: right here. So the call that was made to the
Speaker 1: male friend was a man that Chuck was evidently very
Speaker 1: jealous of, and she had told people that she was
Speaker 1: a cousin of hers was having a wedding that that summer,
Speaker 1: and she was going to go and her intention was
Speaker 1: to this other man and not Chuck. Now, did this
Speaker 1: other man live in Detroit? He was in the area,
Speaker 1: I believe, I mean, Chuck evidently knew him because Chuck
Speaker 1: was jealous of him. So I've got to believe that
Speaker 1: he operated in the same circles. He's not like he's
Speaker 1: a friend that lived on the West coast or something
Speaker 1: or far far away. Certainly check it would be unhappy
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, absolutely. And
Speaker 1: the thing is why, so why was she gonna get
Speaker 1: rid of him? Well, Chuck's behavior, there were times where
Speaker 1: he have exhibited some really bad behavior. Chuck was kind
Speaker 1: of a bad drunk from what I heard. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: exactly so. He Remember I said he came from a
Speaker 1: family of lawyers. There is speculation that he should have
Speaker 1: been invited to practice at his father's firm, but instead
Speaker 1: he wasn't because apparently, according to some people, he had
Speaker 1: a tendency to take a two martini lunch that turned
Speaker 1: into a three martini lunch that then stretched into the
Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning, and he'd never come back
Speaker 1: to the office. So he had a habit of drinking
Speaker 1: too much. And these people who are saying this, are
Speaker 1: they reputable sources. They sound like they're actually a lot
Speaker 1: of family. There are people who knew them. That sounds
Speaker 1: like it's from Laana's family. But I can't substantiate that
Speaker 1: because it's always just and this happened, and this is said,
Speaker 1: it's it's insinuated. But the sources never cited. But he
Speaker 1: did have a tendency to turn into a total d
Speaker 1: bag when he had a bunch of booze in him.
Speaker 1: That happened to some people. It's actually a lot of people, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really does. There are at least three times that
Speaker 1: people have pointed out where Chuck got himself kicked out
Speaker 1: of bars because he was supposedly too drunk. But that
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean he was being aggressive. That means he
Speaker 1: was cut off and and told. But there's also a
Speaker 1: time where he supposedly got into a fight with Laura
Speaker 1: to the point that people who were there decided that
Speaker 1: it was so bad they had to get in between
Speaker 1: the couple. To be honest, yelling and name calling and
Speaker 1: pointing and being just a super saucy drunk does not
Speaker 1: mean that somebody's inclined to do harm to another person
Speaker 1: while sober or drunk. I mean I'm not defending that behavior,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that it's not an A equals
Speaker 1: B scenario. But you know, she also said to her friends,
Speaker 1: she said that, listen, if anything ever happens to me,
Speaker 1: look at my boyfriend. Well he, if anything ever happens
Speaker 1: to the police will look at your boyfriend. They will.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen pictures of them. Um, she is
Speaker 1: super attractive. He is not unattractive, of but I can
Speaker 1: see why he would think maybe she was a bit
Speaker 1: out of his league and get jealous, but quickly I'm sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people have said that he was he had, he had
Speaker 1: totally he was out of his league with her. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and you know, for as someone who is also kind
Speaker 1: of just outgoing and flirty by nature. Um, you know
Speaker 1: I've been yeah, Steve, as Steve, I'm talking as Steve
Speaker 1: right now. I've been in situations where, you know, I've
Speaker 1: definitely dated people who felt like that was unacceptable. And
Speaker 1: you know, you go out to the bar, you have
Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, you just engage with people the
Speaker 1: way you engage with people, and they perceived that as
Speaker 1: being really flirty and inappropriate, and you get in a
Speaker 1: fight and then you know things get heated, and I
Speaker 1: mean I can, but I can also see that if
Speaker 1: the friends were drunk, they might perceive that as a
Speaker 1: very much more serious situation than it actually was. If everybody,
Speaker 1: if everybody involved is at the bar, that means alcohol
Speaker 1: is involved, which means that your memory cannot be totally trusted,
Speaker 1: and your impressions or perceptions of the situation may be skewed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I get overly protective of my friends when
Speaker 1: I get a little drunk, and if they're getting in
Speaker 1: a little kind of you know, snippy spat with there
Speaker 1: see another, I am immediately like, oh my god, stop
Speaker 1: abusing her. That's the worst, right, So I can understand
Speaker 1: all her friends when I perceived that, even if it
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily true, but also it could have been true.
Speaker 1: I got around this by just not having friends who
Speaker 1: are nasty drunks. Yeah, that is an easy way. That
Speaker 1: isn't totally an easy way to solve it. But the
Speaker 1: other thing is that what we don't know is so
Speaker 1: that that comment of the fact that she said, well,
Speaker 1: if anything ever happens to me, look at my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: We have no idea if she was being serious or sarcastic. Well,
Speaker 1: do we have any idea if anybody even actually said that.
Speaker 1: She supposedly said that to a friend, and that friend
Speaker 1: apparently has taken it to be serious after the fact,
Speaker 1: who was his friend? And you know when as she said,
Speaker 1: and she even talking about this boyfriend, I mean, look
Speaker 1: at me, hands in the air, look on my face,
Speaker 1: like I I have no idea who made this statement. Again,
Speaker 1: these are things that are bandied about. Got to bring
Speaker 1: them all up. Whether I I hold it to be
Speaker 1: correct or not, I don't know. Um, There's there's some
Speaker 1: other things that I really I have a lot of
Speaker 1: hesitation with. And that's some other witnesses. And these are
Speaker 1: late breaking witnesses and that came out like long after
Speaker 1: R Yes, So there's there's two witnesses that we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about here. There is one. Uh, This gentleman came
Speaker 1: forward like nine months or ten months after Lana and
Speaker 1: Chuck disappeared, and it is he said that he was
Speaker 1: driving down the street and he was going by a
Speaker 1: local casino and he saw a man and a woman
Speaker 1: having a fight and the man was waving his arms around,
Speaker 1: looked like he was hitting the woman and trying to
Speaker 1: shove in the car, and then she ran away and
Speaker 1: got in another car and took off, and he followed
Speaker 1: that car until at some point he stopped following that car.
Speaker 1: And he was pretty sure that that was Chuck. He
Speaker 1: was positive, actually, he says he's positive it was them.
Speaker 1: It was Chuck. But it was nine months later, and
Speaker 1: it happened a month before they different period, So we're
Speaker 1: talking ten months. And if you listen to this guy,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't buy him. He We've seen too
Speaker 1: many people come forward after the fact in stories like
Speaker 1: this to get the media attention that I really really
Speaker 1: am hesitant to buy his story. You know. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe Lana was in denial about the terrible situation
Speaker 1: that her relationship had turned into with Chuck's drinking. I
Speaker 1: don't know that people do that. It happens. But you
Speaker 1: know what, this guy, I can't add any credibility to him.
Speaker 1: He's not the only one who came forward though. There
Speaker 1: are two ladies who came forward again eight nine months later,
Speaker 1: after a story aired on the TV saying that they
Speaker 1: were in hur On Bay on the eleventh and that
Speaker 1: they saw a boat drifting close to the rocks and
Speaker 1: They also saw another boat speeding out of the bay,
Speaker 1: but they couldn't see who or how many people were
Speaker 1: on it, but they were pretty sure that it was
Speaker 1: sees life on here on bay is important to them
Speaker 1: because that is where Lata's body was found. The problem is,
Speaker 1: the currents drift from north to south. So how in
Speaker 1: the hell did the boat get from the bay all
Speaker 1: the way to eleven miles northeast of Mackinaw Island if
Speaker 1: nobody was on it? Well, and also how is it
Speaker 1: that the boat sort of drifted in close to the
Speaker 1: rocks and then reversed its course on on its own
Speaker 1: and drifted away again. Yeah, I mean, you know if
Speaker 1: it's stripped in towards the rocks, and and as far
Speaker 1: as the boat speeding away, well, it's water. It's a lake.
Speaker 1: You're gonna see boat speeding around exactly. People that are yeah,
Speaker 1: it happens. It's crazy, but it happened. I've seen it
Speaker 1: with my own eyes, So let's uh. So we talked
Speaker 1: about a little bit, the fact that there is the
Speaker 1: phone call and so people were continuous. So we've talked
Speaker 1: about these late breaking witnesses. We're still in the theory
Speaker 1: that the Chuck shoved here overboard on purpose. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I could totally see this. If he's insecure and
Speaker 1: a little jealous, he might be like, once she's not around,
Speaker 1: she's in the head picking up her phone, you know,
Speaker 1: and having a look at you know who she's calling. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's possible that, you know, he they
Speaker 1: have a he overhears part of her conversation and then
Speaker 1: he gets angry and he shoves her overboard. It's possible
Speaker 1: he didn't know that he wasn't going to a wedding
Speaker 1: with her and just suddenly found out and lost his mind. Well, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that he didn't even know there was a
Speaker 1: wedding taking place. I Yeah, I gotta be honest with you.
Speaker 1: I would not be super stoked if I found out
Speaker 1: that my boyfriend was taking another girl to a wedding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was, actually, is this this is bad on my part?
Speaker 1: I was. I was dating a woman and she broke
Speaker 1: up with me, specifically because I went to a wedding
Speaker 1: without her. I would probably break up with Yeah. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: yeah that's okay. Can you go with someone else? Well now, okay,
Speaker 1: then that's fine. Yeah, I had my reasons for not
Speaker 1: wanting to take her with and I just never should
Speaker 1: have missed. You didn't replace her. I didn't replace her.
Speaker 1: That's not bad. Take a different date. Yeah, that that
Speaker 1: that was that wass off. But yeah, so you can
Speaker 1: see how he would be upset. We can see how
Speaker 1: he would shove her into the water. It does a
Speaker 1: little bit explain possibly why she had carbononoxide in her
Speaker 1: system if she goes into the water, because she would
Speaker 1: be trying to get on the boat where she's at
Speaker 1: the back of the boat where the swim deck is,
Speaker 1: which is also where the exhaust of the boat is.
Speaker 1: You can see why she would be breathing that in.
Speaker 1: But it still doesn't explain to me. And I know
Speaker 1: that we're gonna have this conversation again, but it still
Speaker 1: doesn't explain to me why she was buck naked, also
Speaker 1: why the back of her tennis shoes were and why
Speaker 1: the GPS was the amount of the GPS was in
Speaker 1: her shoe. I mean that that, you know, because if
Speaker 1: they're having a fight of that magnitude, there are signs
Speaker 1: of foul play on the boat, Yes, there there would be,
Speaker 1: and if there aren't, if it's intentional, he couldn't throw
Speaker 1: the sneakers overboard. You don't leave that stuff around if
Speaker 1: you like just accidentally push your girlfriend overboard and she's dead.
Speaker 1: You talked that overboard too, and pull the knob out
Speaker 1: and put it back in the GPS problem and then
Speaker 1: he tossed the sneaker overboard, right, Yeah, so that's my
Speaker 1: problem with that. Yeah. Well, and there's i mean people
Speaker 1: point to for this theory. People say, well, obviously Chuck
Speaker 1: was drunk that day because there's an empty vodka bottle
Speaker 1: in the trash can. She doesn't probably have probably consumed
Speaker 1: the night before or at some point in the past.
Speaker 1: It felt like she's got a maid service that comes
Speaker 1: on to her boat and takes the trash away for Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows how long it's been it. It
Speaker 1: could have you know, it could have been a half
Speaker 1: a half a theft and they polished it off the
Speaker 1: night before. Could be even less. Yeah, a couple of shots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have no idea that she just had on the boat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you could have finished it like months ago and
Speaker 1: you're just chilling there. It had been there for a
Speaker 1: long time. You you just don't know. I would think
Speaker 1: what these two apparently they both like to drink. You
Speaker 1: think they'd be a substantial stock of booze on board. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a lot of room for
Speaker 1: that substantial stock of booze. Joe. There was a pretty
Speaker 1: tight Harners in the bottle of that boat. And in
Speaker 1: addition to that, it's not as though they were like
Speaker 1: staying overnight really that much on the boat, right. They
Speaker 1: they stopped and they got dinner and maybe had a
Speaker 1: couple of drinks, and then got back on and stayed
Speaker 1: the night. She seemed to be trying to be responsible
Speaker 1: and stay with family the next day. Yeah, they probably
Speaker 1: came back to the boat, had a shot and you know,
Speaker 1: wants to sleep, you know. But yeah, it's hard to say. So. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, just the problems with the late breaking witness
Speaker 1: theories or the witness statements, Excuse me, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of issue with that. And then I mean this,
Speaker 1: this theory continues on that the chuck must have turned
Speaker 1: off the GPS and then drove the boat somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Evidently he must have drove it north before he got off.
Speaker 1: If the ladies, the ladies you spotted the boat and
Speaker 1: Lake Uron are to be believed then, or maybe even
Speaker 1: not that, but somehow he must have taken it north
Speaker 1: and then that's why the boat drifted to where it is.
Speaker 1: People say this because his body hasn't been found, but
Speaker 1: it turns out bodies not showing up after they go
Speaker 1: into the water in that lake are not uncommon things.
Speaker 1: It's deep, it's a big lake, it's big, it's cold water.
Speaker 1: He's a he was not a small guy. He probably
Speaker 1: weighed more than sheeted. And it's post well that he
Speaker 1: sank float. It's a matter of yeah, it's a matter
Speaker 1: of his body density. And I can't tell totally. He looked,
Speaker 1: doesn't look like he doesn't look like a skinny guy,
Speaker 1: you know. So he may not have been as buoyant
Speaker 1: as her. Some people are more buoyant than He could
Speaker 1: have been wearing clothes. He could have had weights on
Speaker 1: his feet because he was working out. It could have
Speaker 1: been wearing concrete like concrete shoes anyway. But here's the
Speaker 1: other thing, is that he might have washed up on
Speaker 1: shore too, somewhere. But here's the deal. This after bodies
Speaker 1: have been in the water for a while, it's kind
Speaker 1: of even hard to recognize him well. But but the
Speaker 1: you know. That's a good point, is that bodies do
Speaker 1: wash up, and bodies have washed up. There was a
Speaker 1: body that washed up in two thousand and eight that
Speaker 1: they thought might have been him, but it turned out
Speaker 1: that it wasn't. They also thought that it could have
Speaker 1: been three or four other people who had disappeared in
Speaker 1: the lake. It turned out it was somebody who had
Speaker 1: disappeared a year prior. It's a big freaking lake. He's like,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of coastline. It could have washed up
Speaker 1: and been carried away by animals before anybody start, yeah,
Speaker 1: or just got sank to the bottom and the sea
Speaker 1: life had their way with it. It's not completely crazy
Speaker 1: that the body quote unquote disappears and there aren't there
Speaker 1: like little shoals and islands and things like that all
Speaker 1: over the lake too. I mean, maybe he just washed
Speaker 1: up there and and it just broke down and yeah,
Speaker 1: and nature took its course. It could have been he
Speaker 1: actually swammed one of those islands. He's living there now,
Speaker 1: still living. Yeah. Okay, so you're right, Okay, let's keep
Speaker 1: going well, because there's some stuff we did not address
Speaker 1: there that I want to address. But I know we're
Speaker 1: gonna do that a little bit more here. Um, So
Speaker 1: we're gonna move on to this theory, which is it
Speaker 1: was an accident, but it was Chuck's fault because he
Speaker 1: was drunk. Okay, this is very similar to that. You're
Speaker 1: gonna find this in a couple of them. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of things that bleed through. Again, this is saying
Speaker 1: he drank all the vodka that day, he was super sauce,
Speaker 1: and he didn't know her over overboard intentionally, but somehow
Speaker 1: accidentally she went over. He then freaks out and starts
Speaker 1: throwing the p f D s at her, the life
Speaker 1: jackets at her to try to get it to her.
Speaker 1: He he throws a line to her, and then when
Speaker 1: he can't do get her that way, he decides to
Speaker 1: just go ahead and jump in himself to try and
Speaker 1: rescue her and bring her back to the boat. They Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible, except I can't imagine she went in
Speaker 1: and just immediately immediately started stripping. I can't either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the problem I have with this. But
Speaker 1: you know, otherwise it's pretty solid. But I can see
Speaker 1: that The problem is is he must have been really
Speaker 1: sauced or just a really stupid person when he doesn't
Speaker 1: realize that what he can do is put the boat
Speaker 1: in neutral and which it was, Yeah, and put it
Speaker 1: in neutral and actually maybe even turn it around and
Speaker 1: like head it back towards her a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he was drunk. There's no reason
Speaker 1: to judgment. Well, but maybe okay, let's let's keep this
Speaker 1: going with this. If indeed he is sauced, his judgment
Speaker 1: is highly impaired and that logical thought may not occur.
Speaker 1: If he's not sauced, well, that's a completely different story.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the carbon monoxide? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Um,
Speaker 1: she did have carbon monoxide in her bloodstream. Uh it is.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna apologize because there's been a science here and
Speaker 1: I really struggled with this. She had a saturation in
Speaker 1: her blood, which is where it's a little tricky because
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of time that you have to
Speaker 1: inhale carbon monoxide or certain concentrations to reach that. So
Speaker 1: there's there's different ways that it could have happened, but
Speaker 1: the general thinking is that to get to percent saturation,
Speaker 1: she must have been in the exhaust stream of the boat,
Speaker 1: which means she was hanging around at the swim deck
Speaker 1: for fifteen to twenty minut it's at which point she
Speaker 1: would have inhaled enough that caused dizziness and nausea, at
Speaker 1: which point would mean that she starts to have some
Speaker 1: issues with maintaining keeping her head above water, and that
Speaker 1: would have been what caused her to drown. And we said,
Speaker 1: the swim deck is like a little it's there's a
Speaker 1: little perch there right the back of the is about
Speaker 1: eight or twelve inches above the water line. But it's
Speaker 1: a little there. I don't know this is big enough
Speaker 1: thing that actually like sit on or anything, but it's
Speaker 1: you can, but it's but it's hard. It's it's hard
Speaker 1: thing when you're when you're tired to pull yourself up
Speaker 1: twelve inches out of the water. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've ever tried. I mean, that's not easy
Speaker 1: to do. But I was just thinking, I mean, she
Speaker 1: was a tan girl. You know, maybe she thought I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna sun myself here. But it doesn't sound like
Speaker 1: it was. The weather doesn't make sense for that into
Speaker 1: that trap. You're right, but you know, it's it's funny,
Speaker 1: is that the carbon Relax said. I was reading and
Speaker 1: there's this thing I can't I believe people do this
Speaker 1: called teak surfing. Have you heard of that have done it?
Speaker 1: You've done it, teak surfing as in the wood teak
Speaker 1: because the boats used to be managed to tea. You
Speaker 1: would hang onto the tea the back of the boat
Speaker 1: or the side of the boat, and you would either
Speaker 1: body surf or we're surf on your bare feet, which
Speaker 1: knowing what a danger is because you're in the exhaustream
Speaker 1: with the boat is insane to me. People do People
Speaker 1: do a lot of stupid stuff. I doubt that she would.
Speaker 1: I don't, especially not in this situation and naked and
Speaker 1: with all her jewelry. On the other Yeah, And the
Speaker 1: other thing that I will point out is we you know,
Speaker 1: having carbon monoxide in your blood stream is not necessarily
Speaker 1: this immediate bad thing. Smokers have somewhere between five to
Speaker 1: nine percent in their bloodstream most times, so it's not
Speaker 1: as if it's an instant death sentence. I don't think,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that the cause of death
Speaker 1: is carbon monoxide poison. The reason for drowning may have
Speaker 1: been carbon MONOXI her just yeah, yeah, I was trying
Speaker 1: to think of the word is disorientation, thank you, Joe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's but it doesn't mean that as soon as
Speaker 1: you read that stuff in you're instantly disoriented and drunk
Speaker 1: on it. No, I mean there's there's carbon monoxide. If
Speaker 1: you walk downtown, you know you're gonna be inhaling at
Speaker 1: least a bit of that. So yeah, next to island traffic,
Speaker 1: what what at what level do you actually like, you know, die,
Speaker 1: blood saturation is where you die. That's and that's that's
Speaker 1: instant death. And for my um just to have to say,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories about the actual dangers of
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide poisoning is a Reddit post. It's one of
Speaker 1: the best of If you just best of carbon monoxide poisoning,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll come up. This guy posted on legal
Speaker 1: Advice because he thought his uh landlord was breaking into
Speaker 1: his apartment leaving him sticky notes, and it turned out
Speaker 1: that he was so poisoned with carbon monoxide that he
Speaker 1: was forgetting that he was writing himself sticky notes and
Speaker 1: thought that it was his landlord. You should go read
Speaker 1: the story. But like this can literally happen to people,
Speaker 1: so that explains a lot to check the carbon monoxide
Speaker 1: and yeah, but so, I mean, it can be that
Speaker 1: serious without causing any other kind of side effects. It
Speaker 1: was just memory loss for this guy. But it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like this was prolonged exposure. It was a cute exposure.
Speaker 1: And again, the reason I brought up earlier the fact
Speaker 1: that her family had used the boat after the fact
Speaker 1: is that some people will say, well, obviously there must
Speaker 1: have been a league and the carbon monoxide was spilling
Speaker 1: into the cabin somewhere. But if her family is using
Speaker 1: the boat, then somebody else should have experienced the shown
Speaker 1: symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning. A counterpoint, where was her
Speaker 1: family sleeping in the cabin, because I guess it's possible
Speaker 1: that it was leaking in, but they weren't spending enough
Speaker 1: time in the actual cabin, but that she and Chuck
Speaker 1: were sleeping in didn't have the engine on. And the
Speaker 1: other problem is that they slept at a dock and
Speaker 1: then they left and they were traveling. They would have
Speaker 1: had she was making phone calls in the cabin, Okay,
Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard, I mean, with the rent more time in
Speaker 1: the cabin than other people, so she could have been
Speaker 1: exposed to it more. I understand it's it's grasping. It
Speaker 1: really is grasping because the engine is at the rear
Speaker 1: of the boat. That's the problem with with this. But um,
Speaker 1: the other thing that we'll talk about right now is
Speaker 1: the GPS snob. So, like we said, that knob is
Speaker 1: about an inch or two around. It's the kind of
Speaker 1: thing that when it comes unscrew and it falls to
Speaker 1: the ground, it's going to fall with the shaft pointing up,
Speaker 1: which as soon as you step on and it's going
Speaker 1: to bury itself into your shoe if they're there. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: But if it's a tennis shoe, it's not like it's
Speaker 1: gonna jam your foot and you're gonna throw it that
Speaker 1: you've stepped on it, you're gonna know, which could explain
Speaker 1: why she tore out of it. Because she was walking
Speaker 1: and she stepped on it and she twists. You could
Speaker 1: see how that would cause her tennis shoe to tear
Speaker 1: in the motion. It's possible. I'm not saying it's the
Speaker 1: right answer, but it's possible. Are we talking. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: we're talking tennis shoes like you're wearing right now. Are
Speaker 1: we talking? Yeah? Okay, I mean it feels like it
Speaker 1: would take a lot to tear the back out of
Speaker 1: those tennis shoes. But you would think so, But I've
Speaker 1: had tennis shoes tear and it's amazing. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like tearing a phone book. You see the guy do,
Speaker 1: It's like it's never gonna holy crap. Once it starts,
Speaker 1: you just go. That could have been worn to Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they weren't brand new shoes. Yeah. So let's uh,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit more though about the GPS
Speaker 1: unit because there's some things about it that we haven't covered.
Speaker 1: You remember we talked about the data points. You were
Speaker 1: asking about what the heck the deal was with those.
Speaker 1: So here's the the numbers. So we actually have some
Speaker 1: numbers here. The GPS unit on her boat was able
Speaker 1: to track two thousand and data points or location points
Speaker 1: that you would input and say, show me this thing
Speaker 1: or that it was tracking. It would log to do
Speaker 1: it automatically, right right, So whatever it's uh, we'll get
Speaker 1: in some details in a sec. There were one thousand,
Speaker 1: eight hundred eighty five of that possible two thousand data
Speaker 1: points logged. And like I said, there's a gap between
Speaker 1: sometime in the afternoon on the eleventh and one thirty
Speaker 1: am in the morning of the twelve, which where there's
Speaker 1: nothing missing, and people point to this one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifteen missing location or data points yes as indicating that
Speaker 1: there's something going on in that time lag. People will
Speaker 1: actually say, well, obviously somebody went in there and they
Speaker 1: deleted that stuff so that you didn't know where the
Speaker 1: boat was, which is a little hinky to me. That
Speaker 1: seems silly. And I say that because thanks to some
Speaker 1: forums of people who are boat enthusiasts I and they
Speaker 1: also happened to pick up this particular story, I got
Speaker 1: a bunch of information, which is it's believed that her
Speaker 1: boat was probably using a garment one thirty And if
Speaker 1: you go to look up a garment one now be
Speaker 1: aware that the garment still uses the name garment one.
Speaker 1: It's completely different than it used to be. And it
Speaker 1: was one of those things that would come standard on
Speaker 1: the boat or come with the boat. This I believe
Speaker 1: this was an aftermarket after the fact. Addition, it was
Speaker 1: not if the if the knob had come loose, It's
Speaker 1: not something that would be flush mounted into the dash
Speaker 1: of the boat. It's something that was mounted on after
Speaker 1: the fact on kind of a swivel mount. That's the
Speaker 1: kind of technology you really don't want to buy that's
Speaker 1: installed in vote because this changed it so fast. Yeah yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean my car's GPS is my cars a year
Speaker 1: old and the GPS system I used the one on
Speaker 1: my phone because it's better than what was in a
Speaker 1: brand new car. So yeah, the same, same exact theory.
Speaker 1: But these, uh, these folks on this forum helped me
Speaker 1: figure out that. Like I said, they think it's a
Speaker 1: one thirty and that particular unit, or actually a lot
Speaker 1: of units, but this one in particular had three modes.
Speaker 1: It had OFF, which means it didn't track any data points.
Speaker 1: It had what was called called phil, which means it
Speaker 1: tracked until it filled up and then it stopped tracking
Speaker 1: any data points. Or it had wrapped, which was it
Speaker 1: tracked up until it reached almost capacity, at which point
Speaker 1: it deleted the oldest data points to have space to
Speaker 1: keep recording on top of its overwriting the data. What
Speaker 1: we don't know, and I want to point this out,
Speaker 1: is I doubt that it was over writing them one
Speaker 1: at a time. Most likely what it did is it
Speaker 1: wipe blocks of memory out, So let's just say it's
Speaker 1: block it wipes out two hundred of the oldest data
Speaker 1: points and then the thing keeps going so it hits capacity,
Speaker 1: wipes two hundred and then keeps logging. Well, that would
Speaker 1: explain why it's this random number of a hundred and fifteen,
Speaker 1: because it hasn't reached that minimum before it wipes another
Speaker 1: two hundred. Well, I don't know what the minnow number
Speaker 1: wipe is. I'm making two hundred up. It's unred. But
Speaker 1: here's the deal. As anybody actually published the track that
Speaker 1: was stored on the GPS, the police police have it,
Speaker 1: but you know it's from what I've gathered, it's follows
Speaker 1: the route that they were heading to Mackinaw Island, and
Speaker 1: then at some point in there it's stopped, and then
Speaker 1: it began again when the boat was drifting relatively where
Speaker 1: it was found by the coast guard. But here's that's
Speaker 1: a little suspicious. Well if that's the case, though, then
Speaker 1: I mean if it if it's tracked their entire journey
Speaker 1: with just a small interruption in the middle, with a
Speaker 1: six or twelve hour gap. But so I guess my
Speaker 1: question is is was it battery powered or was it plugged?
Speaker 1: It was dependent on the power of the ship. The
Speaker 1: boat was, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the boat
Speaker 1: was on idle the entire time. Right, So if they
Speaker 1: turned the boat off and it's not receiving power, if
Speaker 1: it doesn't have a battery pack, no, no, it would.
Speaker 1: It would be wired into the boat system. I mean,
Speaker 1: you've been on a boat. You turn the engine off,
Speaker 1: you still have electricity until the battery drains. But once
Speaker 1: the battery drains, you can't turn the boat back on.
Speaker 1: But so, I mean, what's to say there wasn't an
Speaker 1: electrical problem for a minute during the I Actually I'm
Speaker 1: not going to disagree with that, because here's the thing
Speaker 1: Lana had had. I don't know what it was, but
Speaker 1: she had had some work done to her GPS unit,
Speaker 1: which gives me the indication, uh that it makes total
Speaker 1: sense that one of the knobs would have come loose
Speaker 1: in two days of constantly driving over not smooth water.
Speaker 1: That thing's gonna unscrew itself. Okay, now it's rattling along
Speaker 1: on only one screw holding it in place. I can
Speaker 1: see how the power connection could come loose or if
Speaker 1: it's using I believe it hadn't built in antenna. But
Speaker 1: let's just presume that maybe it had an external antenna.
Speaker 1: The antenna could have come disconnected a little bit, which
Speaker 1: if it can't get any data, it can't log anything.
Speaker 1: Then let's move forward in time to now the season rougher.
Speaker 1: The thing is bouncing around, the connection could have rattled
Speaker 1: good enough for it to turn back on. I am
Speaker 1: making this is pure conjecture, but I'm just looking at well, okay,
Speaker 1: well somebody worked on it. It's only got one knob
Speaker 1: on it. I don't know if you've ever had anything
Speaker 1: that connects in two points and one of them comes loose.
Speaker 1: Things really start riding around really fast, and plugs they
Speaker 1: come loose, Well, yeah they did. Was there any evidence
Speaker 1: that it maybe have been duct taped into place or
Speaker 1: anything like that? Again, nobody ever said, And the GPS
Speaker 1: unit was all duct tape on the back side. They
Speaker 1: use hot glue all over that mother. Nobody ever said that.
Speaker 1: That's what I do. Maybe maybe some nails nailed the
Speaker 1: cable in place. I guess, yeah, I just I don't
Speaker 1: find the missing data points nearly as suspicious as other
Speaker 1: people do, just based on the conditions of the boat
Speaker 1: and everything that it went through through that, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I do think that, you know, it's entirely possible it
Speaker 1: you know, pirates actually, but I'm talking pirates. I'm not
Speaker 1: talking guys and ships like taking them over, but guys
Speaker 1: that basically uh board the boat at some place like
Speaker 1: there are a lot the last place they gassed the
Speaker 1: boat up and borrowing the boat for something because they
Speaker 1: were close to Canada. You might not know this or not,
Speaker 1: but there's a very profitable business smuggling cigarettes across the
Speaker 1: Canadian border. So I mean, maybe are you being serious.
Speaker 1: I'm seriously, they could have taken them, murder them, not
Speaker 1: just cigarettes. Even though it seems like a hell of
Speaker 1: a thing to do to smuggle cigarettes, to to to
Speaker 1: throw two people overboard. It does. But but I mean
Speaker 1: that's that's just one thing. I mean, the cigarettes is
Speaker 1: less likely. But suppose this. It's by the way, we're
Speaker 1: now in the pirate theory. For anybody who hasn't picked
Speaker 1: that up. We just moved right into the pirates is
Speaker 1: the pirate theory. But it wasn't. I'm thinking more like
Speaker 1: for smuggling people. If you want to boat and you
Speaker 1: want to get from you want to get some people
Speaker 1: into the US from Canada, let's stay there. You know
Speaker 1: some al Quaeda types, you know, who want to come
Speaker 1: into the country and they don't really feel like walking
Speaker 1: over the mountains. They can't go to a checkpoint, so
Speaker 1: you murder a couple of people, take their boat, go
Speaker 1: to Canada, which is not at all far away, pick
Speaker 1: up your guys, bring them back to the US, drop
Speaker 1: them off, and then ditch the boat. You know, that's it, Okay.
Speaker 1: So I have a number of problems with that, which is,
Speaker 1: where did they bump into Chuck and Lana to then
Speaker 1: decide that they were they were great marks for this situation,
Speaker 1: I mean, the only point that they could have done that,
Speaker 1: and that this actually falls a little bit in line
Speaker 1: with the lead investigators theory, which the lead investigators theories
Speaker 1: that they met somebody at presqu Isle who was not
Speaker 1: a good person, a nefarious kind of guy, who left
Speaker 1: on their own boat and followed them and then did
Speaker 1: something you know, made her strip and then walk the
Speaker 1: plank or whatever whatever. Whatever. I mean that that is
Speaker 1: sort of in line with it. But I know you're
Speaker 1: thinking about the phone calls and the phone calls. The
Speaker 1: phone calls, let's just say, you know what, dismissed the
Speaker 1: phone calls. The phone calls happened before this person or
Speaker 1: Joe's Canadian pirates show up, and so all of that
Speaker 1: happens after the fact. But for what you're talking about,
Speaker 1: if you were gonna leave a dock in Canada and
Speaker 1: go to a dock in the States, it's it's not
Speaker 1: like there's a bajillion customs points. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: million places in a million boats you could do with.
Speaker 1: It just seems out amazing these guys fell into a
Speaker 1: terrorist trap. I also like the idea of Canadian pirates
Speaker 1: because they're just like, oh, hey, sorry to bother you, man. Uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna need your boat, man. Yeah. And they're like, no,
Speaker 1: you can't have it. Oh sorry, man, we gotta we
Speaker 1: were gonna need your vote. Hey, sorry man, here's your
Speaker 1: some Tim Horton's man, I'm sorry twice. Even Canadians can
Speaker 1: recognize that they are not good pirates. They know it's
Speaker 1: like Portlanders aren't good pirates, were too weird, like not,
Speaker 1: we're just too nice. Yeah, we wouldn't do that, Okay,
Speaker 1: So anyway, No, I think that's a stretch. I agree.
Speaker 1: I think I do think the fact that she is naked,
Speaker 1: but wearing her jewelry and her watch. It makes me
Speaker 1: suspect that perhaps somebody of an affarious nature did somehow
Speaker 1: board their bows. And I guess it doesn't because we're
Speaker 1: they didn't sleep. They were spending the night, right, they
Speaker 1: had dinner and they left right, so they were they
Speaker 1: were on the lake at night, So it's not so
Speaker 1: weird to me. They disappeared in the daytime, did they? Yes,
Speaker 1: because it was two o'clock in the afternoon. Is the
Speaker 1: phone calls and they showed up at the dock to
Speaker 1: get on presque Ill to get gas at twelve thirty
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, right, But the unaccounted time is until
Speaker 1: when the next morning? So we have overnight? Correct? So
Speaker 1: they But why would they have not called anybody or
Speaker 1: use the radio if they the boat died? Well, maybe
Speaker 1: the boat didn't. I maybe they were fined for a while.
Speaker 1: I mean it took a nap. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're you're you're saying that they moored up somewhere and
Speaker 1: then ended up sleeping that overnight, even though they had
Speaker 1: told everybody they were going to be there in two hours.
Speaker 1: Did they find her cell phone? I didn't have a
Speaker 1: charge I mean, frank questions I can't answer. No, I
Speaker 1: think they did find yourself, and I think it was
Speaker 1: on the boat. Well, did I have a charge? You know,
Speaker 1: probably by the time they found it, and might still.
Speaker 1: But I mean, so that's part of it, right, is
Speaker 1: maybe you think, Okay, we ran into a little trouble.
Speaker 1: We're just going to you know what, the storm. It's
Speaker 1: not good. We don't want to try and doc Or's
Speaker 1: just going to spend the night. Was very close with
Speaker 1: her family, so it is very out of character for
Speaker 1: her to have called her family and said I'll be
Speaker 1: there in two or three hours and then just not
Speaker 1: show and not contacted. But if her phone was dead,
Speaker 1: she had no way to contact them. It's not I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been a think called a charge here, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure I don't know. Listen, I mean things can go
Speaker 1: bad quick on the sea. Maybe they decided to have
Speaker 1: a quickie, okay. I mean she's on her boat with
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. It's not so weird to me that she's naked. No, No,
Speaker 1: that I have a theory about why she's naked, but
Speaker 1: we're not there, okay, But it does to me mean
Speaker 1: something like the some ne'er dwell came on the ship
Speaker 1: and stripped her. I agree. I also agree with that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that to me. So we've we've now
Speaker 1: addressed we've addressed the pirate theory. We've addressed the lead
Speaker 1: investigators theory that something happened somebody followed them from from
Speaker 1: presqu isle Um. The other thing that I want to
Speaker 1: talk about is that this is a relatively similar to
Speaker 1: the Chucks and drunken fool and knocks her overboard. Is
Speaker 1: that it's believed that she may have he may have
Speaker 1: gone over because he was a bumbling fool, not drunk,
Speaker 1: but a classy guy and goes over and as she
Speaker 1: you know, she's throwing the p f d s at
Speaker 1: him and she can't get him to get him and
Speaker 1: she's thrown. So she throws the rope to him and
Speaker 1: he gets to the boat. Now why she doesn't drop
Speaker 1: the swim ladder, I don't know, but she doesn't, and
Speaker 1: instead reaches down to give him a hand, and as
Speaker 1: she's trying to pull him onto the boat, he inadvertently
Speaker 1: pulls her over. I mean, or it's the other way around.
Speaker 1: It's he does all this while she's in the water.
Speaker 1: Or I mean, he goes over she grow some p
Speaker 1: FDS in it's not working. She goes, I'm a strong swimmer.
Speaker 1: I can save him, and she jumps in after him.
Speaker 1: A strong swimmer too. Maybe he's floundering. I mean, you
Speaker 1: can be a strong swimmer and have one thing go wrong.
Speaker 1: It can happen. The thing that her family always points
Speaker 1: to to say that this can't be the case is again,
Speaker 1: voter safety had been drilled into her for so long,
Speaker 1: and voter safety says, no matter how bad it is,
Speaker 1: the pilot doesn't get off the frigging boat, because as
Speaker 1: soon as you get off the boat, the boat is gone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: right now, voter safety is very important. But Steve, look
Speaker 1: me in the eye and tell me that if your
Speaker 1: wife was floundering overboard and the only option you thought
Speaker 1: to save her was to jump in after her, you'd
Speaker 1: be like, on the pilot, I gotta stay on the boat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got life insurance, a life insurance. I just mean,
Speaker 1: you know, they're our reports, they're happy, they're in love,
Speaker 1: they've been together for a couple of years. I would
Speaker 1: jump in after my boyfriend, and I know about her safety. Well. Now,
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is that number one. There
Speaker 1: was no there were no sypes of trauma. As I say,
Speaker 1: if she fell overboard, there were no knocks on the
Speaker 1: head or in my theory, he fell o. I can
Speaker 1: see that. Okay, so he fell overboard, he's drowning, but
Speaker 1: she still knows enough to to stop the boat and
Speaker 1: maybe head back towards him. Yeah. But but I see
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. The problem I have with this
Speaker 1: is that I guess she should She could have panicked
Speaker 1: and just dove overboard to rescue him. But you would
Speaker 1: think she would have put the ladder down. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's not that's exactly you would think. But again,
Speaker 1: I mean she says this all the time. That's like
Speaker 1: that's thinking rationally. Well, yeah, she's a chick. I know,
Speaker 1: the person that you love, the person that you love,
Speaker 1: you're watching them drown. You're watching that person die. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Yeah? Are you going
Speaker 1: to be like bladder than you have a fast maneuverabal
Speaker 1: thing called the boat that you can turn around and
Speaker 1: get to him and chuck the rope at him and
Speaker 1: hook him with the rope and try and pull him up.
Speaker 1: Maybe she tried that. Maybe he was unconscious. Maybe he
Speaker 1: banged his head and he was like, you know, but
Speaker 1: still you would think that she would be rational enough
Speaker 1: to you know, I literally don't the boat around close,
Speaker 1: you know, put the ladder down and all that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's my problem. And okay, well let's just let's
Speaker 1: just say that she does. Okay, so part of this
Speaker 1: is that one of them, let's say it's him in
Speaker 1: the water, he accidentally pulls her overboard. What I don't
Speaker 1: get is why she wouldn't kick the swim ladder over
Speaker 1: as she's reaching down to pull him off. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, trying to pull him up from
Speaker 1: the well of the boat is acidinine. Anyway, why she
Speaker 1: would kick the ladder down climb down to the swim
Speaker 1: platform is the really big boat you guys, you're like saying,
Speaker 1: it's like it's just like right there, she could just
Speaker 1: reach her to go over into this boat. This boat
Speaker 1: has a two couches. Great, howes how long are they? Okay,
Speaker 1: it's probably the size of my couch, which is like
Speaker 1: a six or seven foot couch. They're small couches with
Speaker 1: seats on the ends. And then I mean, if you
Speaker 1: look at the schematics of these boats. Half of it
Speaker 1: is the well. So they're not big things. It's not
Speaker 1: like she has to run a hundred yards. But I'm
Speaker 1: also saying, you missed the thing and he's pulling you over.
Speaker 1: It's not like it's right there and you can. You
Speaker 1: have a couple of tries, but you you pull somebody
Speaker 1: back onto the boat at the lowest point of the boat,
Speaker 1: which is the swim platform. But so if you're in
Speaker 1: the swim platform, you knocked the ladder over, saying hey, dummy,
Speaker 1: climb up the swim ladder. But so what if he
Speaker 1: falls overboard and he grabs onto you for stability and
Speaker 1: you both go over. You can't just kick the ladder.
Speaker 1: But I don't I don't think that he could have
Speaker 1: reached her from the water from the well. E's we're
Speaker 1: we're going down rabbit holeville. We have gone so far
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole too, and they're so far off track.
Speaker 1: The bottom line is, is there there is There are
Speaker 1: a lot of ways that you can actually accidentally go
Speaker 1: overboard on a boat. Yeah, and it happens all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah there ships. So let's let's move to a completely
Speaker 1: totally different theory. I like this one. Aliens not aliens.
Speaker 1: The actual theory is that it is a angry client
Speaker 1: a K or angry defendant would be the right way
Speaker 1: to put it. A K A. The mob in Detroit,
Speaker 1: Chuck was, he was a prosecutor, and so according to
Speaker 1: some people, it's entirely possible that he was prosecuting somebody
Speaker 1: who didn't appreciate him prosecuting them. And they figured out
Speaker 1: where Chuck was and they followed he and unfortunately, because
Speaker 1: she was in the wrong place in the time Lata
Speaker 1: out onto the water, they figured out where their boat was,
Speaker 1: they threw her over overboard after making after making and
Speaker 1: then took him to his his his torture party to him.
Speaker 1: Because we don't know what she did. She she worked
Speaker 1: for the City of Detroit doing lass. I don't believe
Speaker 1: that the City of Detroit prosecute a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But she's not working for the prosecutor's office who she
Speaker 1: working for. She's working for the city of Detroit. I
Speaker 1: get the feeling that it was more of mundane stuff,
Speaker 1: contracts and stuff like that. Yeah, okay, you can you
Speaker 1: can argue that it's Laana's fault all you want. Devin
Speaker 1: and The point of the matter is somebody was mad
Speaker 1: at one. Got it is as I because it is
Speaker 1: hard enough to track somebody down on land, let it alone,
Speaker 1: when they out on the water speeding along in a boat.
Speaker 1: There's a lot easier ways to find somebody. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: also like get a hold of them. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: this is frankly, if you know, if Chuck sees defendant
Speaker 1: number five over there on a boat going Paul over,
Speaker 1: I gotta get on your ship. He's obviously not going
Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, okay, hey, I totally recognize that dude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a good guy. I tried to send him away
Speaker 1: for five years. Let's let him on board and give
Speaker 1: him a shot of vanka. Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: So I really feel like that one doesn't have any
Speaker 1: any basis other than it sounds cool and convenient. The
Speaker 1: only one we have left is what I'm going to
Speaker 1: refer to as the Steve Special, and that's a rogue wave.
Speaker 1: So this theory, according to me, by the way, I
Speaker 1: made this up, because I'm combining a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: stuff that's related to the case, is I'm looking and
Speaker 1: this all comes from well, Laana is obviously had to
Speaker 1: have been naked before she went in the water. Let's
Speaker 1: say that. I still I feel like she probably would
Speaker 1: not have been going commando. Um. I mean, at the
Speaker 1: least I would have expected she'd have some bathing suit on.
Speaker 1: But so what I'm trying to do is I'm trying
Speaker 1: to explain why she's naked. And so what I'm thinking
Speaker 1: is that is, if it is crappy weather and they're
Speaker 1: hitting big Chop, she gets soaked by a wave. She
Speaker 1: whether they run through spray and she's had too much,
Speaker 1: or there's a row wave that hints her. She says, hey, Chuck,
Speaker 1: can you take the wheel. I'm gonna go down below.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change my clothes so I'm not freezing to death.
Speaker 1: He's like, sure, no problem, hunting whatever. Something else happens,
Speaker 1: either she hears chucking distress, or the boat's going all
Speaker 1: wonky and she realizes nobody's at the pilot or at
Speaker 1: the pilot's wheel. Of course, when an emergency happens and
Speaker 1: your neked, what do you do. You don't stop to
Speaker 1: put your clothes on. You go to take care of
Speaker 1: the emergency. It's why your mom told you to always
Speaker 1: make sure you're wearing clean underwear in case you go
Speaker 1: to the hospital, because you never know when that's going
Speaker 1: to happen. The point is whatever then happens happens from there.
Speaker 1: But that's the only way that I can I can
Speaker 1: justify or or make sense of why she would have
Speaker 1: been naked before she went in the water, is that
Speaker 1: she had to have had a good reason to take
Speaker 1: her clothes off in the first place. And when you're
Speaker 1: on a boat and he gets soaked and it's freaking cold,
Speaker 1: you change into dry clothes. That's that's the only thing
Speaker 1: that I can come up with, no matter how much
Speaker 1: you two try to tell me she was going commando proposal.
Speaker 1: She says, Hey, babe, I just got soaked, take the wheel.
Speaker 1: I gotta go change. He says, that's an invitation, if
Speaker 1: I ever heard right. She goes down, gets naked. He
Speaker 1: wanders down and it's like, hey, babe, what's up? And
Speaker 1: she's like, why are you doing? Somebody tells to be
Speaker 1: driving the ship. She runs up to try to drive
Speaker 1: the ship and just overboard, and he's just drunk, and
Speaker 1: he goes overboard, and you know the rest of history.
Speaker 1: It's it's the only problem I have with that. It's
Speaker 1: an invitation if I ever heard one, it is the
Speaker 1: It is an invitation, for sure, but nothing invitation. Let's
Speaker 1: be clear about that. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah that's right.
Speaker 1: Let's be correct here. If she had really totally gotten drenched,
Speaker 1: the first thing that would have come off was her
Speaker 1: watch because she would have wanted to drive that off. Yeah,
Speaker 1: damn complaints. So yeah, so I'm not totally sure that
Speaker 1: I buy into that or not. I still like the
Speaker 1: Christian pirates who made her strip before she walked the plank,
Speaker 1: because that makes sense. Yeah, it totally does. I still
Speaker 1: like the cigarette smuggling Canadians, but I still like the
Speaker 1: academic connection, although even that's not quite believable. Yeah, people
Speaker 1: just screw up and fall overboard. This story is that
Speaker 1: people screw up and fall overboard all the time. But
Speaker 1: when it's two of them, one of whom is reported
Speaker 1: to have been so competent and so aware of how
Speaker 1: things should be done, it really makes me question every theory.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've gone through a lot of theories. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talking about an hour about theories. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: hard for me because that assumes that Chuck is the
Speaker 1: one who went overboard. It is, you know, because every
Speaker 1: time we say yeah, but she really knew what she
Speaker 1: was doing, was like, yeah, but accidents happen, you know.
Speaker 1: And if she was the one who went overboard, he
Speaker 1: may have you know, been a little trained, but he
Speaker 1: obviously didn't have the indoctrination. He didn't grow up around it.
Speaker 1: And you know, again, I know I referenced this all
Speaker 1: the time every talk we every time we talk about
Speaker 1: bowl mysteries and stuff like that, you can talk about
Speaker 1: cruise ship well a little bit. I mean that's there
Speaker 1: are a lot of mysteries that I don't really want
Speaker 1: to cover because I think that person just went overboard
Speaker 1: and their cruise ship related and people are always like, oh, no, no,
Speaker 1: that person couldn't possibly have gone overboard, and it no, No,
Speaker 1: people go overboard all the time. And I know that
Speaker 1: sounds really insensitive. I know that sounds horrible, but it
Speaker 1: is true. That's why these things on sailboats and boats
Speaker 1: and stuff that are called safety straps. So when you're
Speaker 1: on deck, you've got this strap on you so you
Speaker 1: won't follow over Yeah. Yeah, if you do go overboard,
Speaker 1: at least you've got this rope to help yourself, like
Speaker 1: stay attached to your boat and maybe get back on board. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was one of the That was one of the
Speaker 1: things that was always dan until we got into the
Speaker 1: moderns motor power boat age, is that sailors used to
Speaker 1: get washed over in storms all the time. I mean
Speaker 1: that just it just happens. And I know that sounds awful,
Speaker 1: and I know that it's hard to accept because it's
Speaker 1: I guess it's easier somehow to think, well, I got
Speaker 1: abducted or like he murdered her. But the fact of
Speaker 1: the matter is people go overboard, and then people make
Speaker 1: bad decisions to get their loved ones back, and there
Speaker 1: it just happens. Yeah. There is a popular theory I
Speaker 1: hear about this one is that Check murdered her, whether
Speaker 1: actually doubtly or not, and that he actually survived and
Speaker 1: he's actually living under a false identity somewhere. Well it is.
Speaker 1: It is a little silly about the supporting evidence is this.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not I'm not saying this is true
Speaker 1: because I doubt it very very much. But supporting evidence
Speaker 1: is that his family was not all that excited about
Speaker 1: going out and searching for him, unlike her family and
Speaker 1: like Bona's family, and they were a little too a
Speaker 1: little too quick to get him declared legally dead. So
Speaker 1: let me address that. And and you know, again I'm
Speaker 1: not buying this theory. So I'll actually address the thing
Speaker 1: that happened that has drawn a little bit of internet
Speaker 1: scorn against his family is that what comes out is
Speaker 1: that somebody came to his family and said, hey, I've
Speaker 1: got a helicopter, I'll go search for yourself. I'll let
Speaker 1: you use it to go search for your son, and
Speaker 1: all you have to do is pay for the cost
Speaker 1: of fuel, which was how much, Well, helicopter fuel isn't cheap.
Speaker 1: It's more than it costs for gallan to put it
Speaker 1: in your car. I know that. And that that is
Speaker 1: I can understand why his family is like, uh, I
Speaker 1: don't think I can pay for that. And that always,
Speaker 1: you know, people always say, well, obviously they're hiding something
Speaker 1: because they didn't they didn't want to just pour everything
Speaker 1: they had into this. Certain you know, aviation fuel is
Speaker 1: not cheap more than that. I mean, not only do
Speaker 1: you think it's the cost of the helicopter. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, they may just be very pragmatic
Speaker 1: or they may be very private and they just don't
Speaker 1: want to be out in the limelight. They might be
Speaker 1: afraid of heights. I mean, I don't know, but well,
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, I get where you're going with that,
Speaker 1: But I just mean they may not want to just
Speaker 1: be out on the boat. They just want to stay
Speaker 1: together and see what happens and let the professionals to
Speaker 1: their job. That there's that. And also I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly when this person what the chopper approached them, and
Speaker 1: if that was like a week or two after you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, do you know when it was. I think
Speaker 1: it was within a week or within the week it
Speaker 1: might have been. I mean generally speaking as somebody, coast
Speaker 1: guard was already searching in helicopters. Yeah, they were already
Speaker 1: searching a lot. Yeah, and you know, if a week
Speaker 1: has gone by or even several days has gone by
Speaker 1: and there's no sign of them, it's like, well, kind
Speaker 1: of you know, it's a little too late. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: kind to stick a fork in it. Really hate to
Speaker 1: say it, but yeah. Yeah, So I personally, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't have a preferred theory on this one because
Speaker 1: I feel like it could be a bazillion different things.
Speaker 1: I like to kill a rabbit theory. I think my
Speaker 1: preferred theory is, you know, as jaded and awful as
Speaker 1: it sounds, as some sort of accident, I don't think
Speaker 1: there was an intention either way. I think they both
Speaker 1: went over and it's just what happened happened. What happened
Speaker 1: happened pretty much, I think so too. What about foul play?
Speaker 1: Let me pay? Yeah, okay, okay, Well, if you want
Speaker 1: to see any of the links that we have available
Speaker 1: for the research that we did, we will put up
Speaker 1: some of that on the website, of course, as we
Speaker 1: always do. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: We are available in a lot of different places. You
Speaker 1: can of course stream or download from the website itself.
Speaker 1: We're on iTunes, so if you use iTunes, do take
Speaker 1: the time to subscribe, leave us a rating and review
Speaker 1: positive preferably. But if you've got issues, please something that's
Speaker 1: bothering you. Putting in a forum where we can have
Speaker 1: a conversation, because you can't have a conversation in a
Speaker 1: comment on iTunes, say it's an email. But we're available
Speaker 1: on most of the streaming services. Uh, you know the
Speaker 1: one that comes to mind at the moment is Google Play,
Speaker 1: because that's where we're getting a whole bunch of new
Speaker 1: listeners from. Yeah. Absolutely. What about the Twitter? Are we
Speaker 1: on the Twitter? We are on the Twitter. We're thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways without the G in the middle. Devon is quite
Speaker 1: busy on that right now. We we guys don't know this,
Speaker 1: but she's constantly on our phone and we are. We
Speaker 1: are on Facebook. We have the Facebook page and the
Speaker 1: Facebook group, so we're always busy on that. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of activity there, which is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: We have a subreddit which is our forward slash Thinking Sideways.
Speaker 1: Is it for less thank you sideways? Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take the use ours, so it's just thinking Sideways. We do,
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Speaker 1: just generally want to talk with us, send us an email.
Speaker 1: That is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. We
Speaker 1: get a lot of emails and we will respond to
Speaker 1: every single one of them, but it might take us
Speaker 1: a couple of days. Sometimes it gets a little busy.
Speaker 1: We're all a little busy at work these days, so
Speaker 1: it's when you can find time. We do. We do,
Speaker 1: we always do. Uh and uh, if you want to
Speaker 1: worth the show, we would appreciate that, but it is
Speaker 1: by no means a requirement. We do appreciate everybody who
Speaker 1: has contributed to the show. There's a number of ways
Speaker 1: to do that. We've got merchandise available. Uh, there's a
Speaker 1: link for that on the website for t shirts, phone cases, mugs, stickers,
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. If you're into that, it's
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Speaker 1: the show, you can do that in two forms. You
Speaker 1: can go and use PayPal to make a one time donation,
Speaker 1: or if you want to make a ongoing contribution, you
Speaker 1: can do that via Patreon. Patreon is a reoccurring basis.
Speaker 1: It's based on every episode you say how much you
Speaker 1: wanted to give per and every time we put an episode,
Speaker 1: that's what you're gonna get charged for. And by the way,
Speaker 1: if we throw up a short or something like that,
Speaker 1: we don't. Oh no, not everything is. You know, we
Speaker 1: put up interviews and stuff like that. We never charged
Speaker 1: for that kind of stuff. But be aware it is
Speaker 1: an ongoing basis. Uh. That is the only the other thing.
Speaker 1: There's nothing else that I can think of that we
Speaker 1: need to do at this point. The basis so I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna float out of here. So if you
Speaker 1: are Chuck, give us a call or send us an email,
Speaker 1: or if you are a Canadian cigarette smuggling pirate, I'd
Speaker 1: like to talk to you. Or if you're the Chata
Speaker 1: guy that's responsible for all this, I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you too. Laura,