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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by Marvin the

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Speaker 1: freewheeling Parrot. Instead, it is supported by the generous contributions

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Speaker 1: of people like you, our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon

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Speaker 1: dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways.

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Speaker 1: I don't sue the stories of things we simply don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer too. Hey there, everybody, and welcome again

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I as always am Steve,

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Speaker 1: joined as always by as always Dot dot dot, and

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Speaker 1: this week, believe it or not, we have another unsolved

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Speaker 1: mystery for you. This week, our mystery is the la

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Speaker 1: You're on voters, also known as the disappearance of Launa

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Speaker 1: Stampion and Charles Rutherford. Chuck Chuck. We're gonna use chuck

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Speaker 1: uh this. But before I get into the mystery, though,

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Speaker 1: this was a listeners suggestion was suggested by Susanne, So

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Speaker 1: thank you, Susanne. I don't know why I didn't find

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Speaker 1: this one in the list, but oh wait, the list

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Speaker 1: is huge. While to find it true, it's a good mystery.

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Speaker 1: So the brief overview is that Laana and Laana Laana Okay,

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Speaker 1: danger zone, danger zone. That's how I have to get

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Speaker 1: out of my system. I'm sorry, it's a Archer joke.

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Speaker 1: I'm done the last time I'll do it. Let's go. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Laana and Chuck, we're a couple who went on

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Speaker 1: a to day boat trip on the Michigan side of

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Speaker 1: Lake Huron in two thousand five, and they never made

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Speaker 1: it to their fast final destination. Kind of it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like a Gordon Lightfoot song or Lingann's Island. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of the two here on set never gives up

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Speaker 1: her dead and the stores of November come early. So

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Speaker 1: let's tell you a little bit about our players before

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Speaker 1: we get too much into the mystery. Long of Stampion

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Speaker 1: was a thirty five year old lawyer. She worked for

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Speaker 1: the City of Detroit. But and and by all accounts,

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Speaker 1: she tended to get men's attention, not just because she

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Speaker 1: was a very pretty lady, but she was, but she

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Speaker 1: also apparently had um It was a very outgoing of

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Speaker 1: vivacious is what it's described as personality and attractive personality

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Speaker 1: as yes, yeah, so very uh people liked her. It's

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Speaker 1: too bad, Yeah, just happen. She when she got out

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Speaker 1: of high school, she had initially been a model. She

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Speaker 1: was on the car circuit, you know, car shows. She

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Speaker 1: was car show model, and but realized that that wasn't

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Speaker 1: what she wanted to just do forever. So she went

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Speaker 1: back to school and became a lawyer. He can't really

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Speaker 1: do that stuff forever. No, so she went to work

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Speaker 1: for the City of Detroit in their law department. To

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Speaker 1: be honest, I don't know what she did in the

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Speaker 1: law department, Joe, thank you. How did I not figure

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Speaker 1: that out? I did some research, and yeah, it turns

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Speaker 1: out that lawyers do legal stuff. Is okay. Let's move

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Speaker 1: over and talk briefly about Charles Rutherford Chuck. Chuck was

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Speaker 1: thirty four years old, and he was also a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: He was from a family of lawyers. He had He

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Speaker 1: had at one point been working as a for the

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Speaker 1: City of Detroit's Prosecutor's office before eventually opening his own practice,

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Speaker 1: which he had been doing for I think it was

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Speaker 1: about a year or two at the time that they disappeared. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And he was described as a really nice guy. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was evidently very in love. I think are smitten

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Speaker 1: is the way that you'll see it described when you

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Speaker 1: see the written accounts. Yeah, yeah, um. And they had

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Speaker 1: the pair had met sometime in two thousand three, he

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Speaker 1: was pretty quiet. Sorry, right, Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: that that relationship. You see that a lot. There's the

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Speaker 1: quiet one in the very outgoing he was the quiet

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Speaker 1: one in the relationship. They met though, and like I said,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand three, and then they moved in together

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Speaker 1: the following year. And I'm not really sure exactly what

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Speaker 1: this means, but it's said that they like to have

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Speaker 1: a few drinks. They were described as thirty something bar flies.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day they went out and

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Speaker 1: had a beer, a couple of drinks. Well, that's my

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Speaker 1: thing is, I don't know what what that means specifically,

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Speaker 1: because I know a lot of people who in their

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Speaker 1: early to mid thirties will go have a couple of

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Speaker 1: drinks at the end of the day, well a couple

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Speaker 1: of times a week. So I think that that's that's

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Speaker 1: one of those generational things and also a Portland's thing.

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Speaker 1: Like in Portland, we go out, we drink, we eat,

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Speaker 1: that's what we do. That's societally, that's what we do here.

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Speaker 1: A lot of places we don't have kids. There's not

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Speaker 1: enough room in our houses for kids, kitchens, we can't

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Speaker 1: afford them and put birds on everything, and yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't cook, there's just pickles everywhere. But I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I lived in the Midwest, for instance, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: people in their early thirties were expected to be married

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Speaker 1: with kids and young kids. So it was less of

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Speaker 1: the going out culture in your early to mid thirties

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Speaker 1: and more of the family life culture. So I can

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Speaker 1: see how that would be brought up sometimes as meant

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Speaker 1: to be an outlier. Whether we think it's an outlier

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Speaker 1: or not. I mean, I don't know that that's relevant.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a perspective I hadn't thought of. Absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: nothing nothing wrong with Yeah, I agree, Also nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with being family. Absolutely. Back to the story though, but

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Speaker 1: by all, by all outward accounts to the pair were

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Speaker 1: in a relatively happy relationship, and we will talk about

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Speaker 1: some further details. As with every relationship, there's there's always

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Speaker 1: things that aren't quite right. Well, that's called being human.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'm gonna solve this. Murdered her. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that later on. Lana's father is retired from the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Coast Guard, and I say that because it's always brought

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Speaker 1: up about the fact that he was very diligent in

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Speaker 1: teaching her boat or safety, and because they spent so

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Speaker 1: much time on the water, she really liked being on

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Speaker 1: the water. She was competent and she was. Yes, she

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Speaker 1: was a competent behind the wheel of a boat or

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Speaker 1: behind the controls. Obviously she'd probably been doing it since

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Speaker 1: she was a kid, exactly, and she's you know, her

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Speaker 1: family has always said that she was very serious on

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Speaker 1: the when she was on the water, it was safety first.

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Speaker 1: If you were gonna have drinks, you did that when

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Speaker 1: you got back to the dock. Like she wasn't um

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Speaker 1: flippant isn't the word. She wasn't reckless about her careless

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, absolutely, this is this is important to

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Speaker 1: know because four years before she disappeared, which would be

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Speaker 1: in two thousand one, Lana had bought a twenty seven

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Speaker 1: foot well Craft cabin cruiser which she had named Sees Life,

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Speaker 1: not Sees Life. She named it boy mcboat face I

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Speaker 1: ever get about, I'm going to name it if only

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Speaker 1: she she was many many many years before that. So

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Speaker 1: just a quick description of her boat, because it's where

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Speaker 1: the majority of our mystery takes place. Well, it was

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Speaker 1: boat shaped. We know that. Thank you, Joe. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate that. Really, when you get down to it, isn't

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Speaker 1: almost everything boat shaped. A lot of things are, most

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Speaker 1: especially you can float on a piece of play, but

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Speaker 1: it's not boat shaped. This argument is going nowhere. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back to the story. Well, I don't know it's

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Speaker 1: it's it was cabin cruiser right right, but not a

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Speaker 1: lot of people know what that. But not everybody knows

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Speaker 1: what that is. Here's here's a description of it. Is

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Speaker 1: the boat if it is one of those boats where

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Speaker 1: the rear half to two thirds is an open space. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the well has seats and benches for people to hang out.

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Speaker 1: There is the pilot seat where the controls are, the

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Speaker 1: steering and the throttle. Almost every picture you see online

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Speaker 1: of like rich, attractive people hanging out on a boat

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Speaker 1: is a boat like this right pretty close. It's like

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Speaker 1: the girls in bikini is sitting on the bench off

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Speaker 1: the back of a boat. That's this boat. But this

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Speaker 1: is the Keep in mind this boat is a single story.

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Speaker 1: Because you'll see boats that have the raised or enclosed cabins. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are like yachts. This is an open cabin boat.

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Speaker 1: Everything is open um. There is there is a small

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Speaker 1: stairwell in the front that goes into the bow which

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Speaker 1: has a small living quarters. It's the cabin. There's teeny

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Speaker 1: there's a small toilet, there's a place to a fridge

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Speaker 1: and a stove. And depending on the model or maybe

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Speaker 1: there there's something that can be changed out. It would

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Speaker 1: have bench seats at a table or a bed. I

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Speaker 1: would think it was like an RV, you know how,

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Speaker 1: you kind of that's what maybe changeable table. Usually usually

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Speaker 1: boats like this have a the berth and right up

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Speaker 1: in the bow, and then and then the dining table

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Speaker 1: you know, drops and it's got cushions you can put

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Speaker 1: on it, right, and then that's another bunk right usually,

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Speaker 1: And that's what the pictures of this look like, is

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Speaker 1: that it's it's bits. Yeah, it's not something that you

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Speaker 1: live in. It's take a trip. Oh, I gotta take

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Speaker 1: a wei. I go down and have someplace to sleep

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Speaker 1: if you're doing one overnight or right exactly. Oh And

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Speaker 1: the other thing that I will say is that because

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Speaker 1: it looks cool, I always like it. This boat has

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Speaker 1: a big spoiler on it off of the back end

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Speaker 1: that it's actually meant to also house. You know, they

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Speaker 1: have the the plastic and tarpaulin covers for cruddy weather,

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Speaker 1: you could cover it up. It's got a small swim

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Speaker 1: deck off the back, which is just a platform. There

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Speaker 1: is a swim ladder. It's important to note that the

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Speaker 1: ladder on this particular boat sits on the top of

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Speaker 1: the deck that you would dive off of. It's not

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Speaker 1: one of the ones that's mounted underneath or built into

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Speaker 1: the actual boat, right. But it's not something that would

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Speaker 1: be readily accessible from the water. Some boats have them

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Speaker 1: where they're on the underside and you can just reach

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Speaker 1: over and pull it, and this that's not what this

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Speaker 1: boat had at all. My some of my neighbors going

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Speaker 1: up at a boat very similar to this that we

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Speaker 1: took out onto the river. I will the only other

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Speaker 1: thing I'll say about her boat is, though we know

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Speaker 1: it's a twenty seven foot well Craft Kevin Cruiser, we

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Speaker 1: don't know the exact model, which makes it a little tough.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when I say the exact model, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it could be one or something. I tried to

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Speaker 1: get really deep into the specifics to figure out details

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Speaker 1: about this boat. I'm working off a lot of generalities.

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Speaker 1: I kind of had to assemble it from similar boats

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Speaker 1: and ones that are of the year, because we don't

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Speaker 1: even know what year her boat was, so it makes

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Speaker 1: it a little probably. I did not not to stop

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Speaker 1: because I didn't um. So let's talk about the trip

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Speaker 1: that the pair had planned. Lana and Chuck. We're planning

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Speaker 1: to take a trip from her parents house, which is

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Speaker 1: in Bell River, Canada, and they were gonna go head

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Speaker 1: north to Mackinaw Island, which is in northern Michigan. Their

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Speaker 1: route was going to take them from the southern edge

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Speaker 1: of Lake St. Clair, which is a small lake connected

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Speaker 1: to Lake Uron, and up the Saint Clair River into

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Speaker 1: Lake uh like Uron, and then they were gonna head

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Speaker 1: north up to the point where like you're on meets

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Speaker 1: up with Lake Michigan. So it's about a three hundred

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Speaker 1: miles or so trip. Yeah, and it's gonna take about

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Speaker 1: two days. Except lake here is on the Lake of Death.

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Speaker 1: It is not noticed that Joe, I'm thinking of somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: I do want to point out that this is one

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Speaker 1: of those times where I felt like a geography moron

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Speaker 1: because of the fact that wait, their trips started in

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Speaker 1: Canada and then they headed north to Michigan. It's because

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Speaker 1: because I'm for the West Coast and I always look

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Speaker 1: at the map and it's always the map of the

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Speaker 1: US with Canada deleted, and so you just you just

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Speaker 1: look at it's like, oh, well, it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: straight line. Canada dips down up there. I know that now,

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Speaker 1: but I felt really dumb. Anybody else just confused, that's

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Speaker 1: what's going on now. I actually think that Canada should

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Speaker 1: give that land back. What the hell are they doing

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Speaker 1: down land further south in the US. That ain't right?

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Speaker 1: Oh well, sorry to all of our Canadian listeners. As

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Speaker 1: unsubscribed to the podcast, you can keep it so. On

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Speaker 1: the tenth of August two thou five, Lana and Chuck

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Speaker 1: launched from Bell River and they head north. They made

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Speaker 1: it to Oscota, which is about a hundred fifty miles

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Speaker 1: north roughly north of from their their launch point at

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Speaker 1: the end of the first day, and they stopped and

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Speaker 1: docked there that night. While they were there, they met

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Speaker 1: a guy named Richard Bannon, and he offered to take

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Speaker 1: give him a ride into town, and then he and

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Speaker 1: his wife joined them for dinner and a couple of cocktails,

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Speaker 1: and then he took them back to the dock that night,

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Speaker 1: because they then the next morning got up and left. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how did you? I didn't know he wasn't hiding on

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Speaker 1: the boat somewhere. Sorry, too, are really wound up today,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty about this. They left on the morning of

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Speaker 1: Thursday eleven, and they headed north and they stopped in

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Speaker 1: presque Isle at about twelve thirty in the afternoon. So

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Speaker 1: while they're there and they're they're getting fueled up, a

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Speaker 1: guy by the name of Gene Austin was working on

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Speaker 1: the dock and he had said he met the couple.

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Speaker 1: They were in good spirits. The weather was turning kind

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Speaker 1: of crappy. It was cold and windy, so they were

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Speaker 1: They were wearing fleeces to keep war, but they were

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Speaker 1: in good spirits. Uh. Lana asked him if there was

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Speaker 1: any areas that she needed to avoid, and he told

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Speaker 1: her about two different shallows to watch out for. She's

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Speaker 1: been told him, Oh, well, I've got those in my GPS,

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Speaker 1: so no big deal. And they left after they had

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Speaker 1: topped off the tank and by all accounts everything was fine. Well.

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Speaker 1: Were they shadowed by a mysterious figure in a black

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Speaker 1: raincoat in the fedora? No, they were not wait and

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Speaker 1: so the storms worth mentioning. It is so when they left,

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Speaker 1: initially the weather was good and they thought they were

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Speaker 1: gonna have good weather the whole time. On that second day,

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Speaker 1: the weather was turned in cold. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: it was actually raining, but it was windy. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: seas did start to get rough. The water in the lake,

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Speaker 1: I believe the next day there are reports of swells

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Speaker 1: anywhere from three to five ft. Okay, so I just

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Speaker 1: the day the storm is continuing to roll in. It

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Speaker 1: was just crappy and cold. Should have taken a car.

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Speaker 1: But Jean Austin, the guy that you know, he was

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Speaker 1: talking to them on the docks, he didn't really mention. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I thought they shouldn't be going out in that

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Speaker 1: weather nothing like that. So it seemed like it was fine.

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Speaker 1: It was like, not ideal, but it was. It was cold.

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Speaker 1: It was chilly out, but it wasn't as if they

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Speaker 1: were going into hurricane force winds or anything crazy like that.

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Speaker 1: It's not a big deal. Yeah, but it wasn't even

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Speaker 1: at that level on that day. So that's that's when

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Speaker 1: the story morning. Yes, okay, I just wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure that I was understanding correctly absolutely as Somewhere around

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Speaker 1: one thirty in that afternoon, Laura called her aunt, the

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Speaker 1: one who lived on mcinna Isle or Island. Sorry, it's

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Speaker 1: not Issle, and she was gonna let her know. Hey.

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Speaker 1: She let her know, Hey, we're a couple of hours out,

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Speaker 1: so we'll be the same. Yeah, we'll be there in

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours, No big deal. She then at

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Speaker 1: one forty five called another aunt who lived in Florida,

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Speaker 1: chatted with her and also told her that they were

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Speaker 1: about two hours away from their destination. Now that's suspicious,

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Speaker 1: and then it should have been one minutes. At at

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Speaker 1: about two o'clock, Launa made one more phone call where

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Speaker 1: she called a male friend of hers. He didn't answer

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Speaker 1: the phone, but she left a one minute voicemail for him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean what she good friends with the aunt in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Evidently she was pretty close with her. It's just somebody

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Speaker 1: that she talked to on a regular basis. I guess

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Speaker 1: it's just kind of one of those things for me

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Speaker 1: where I just think, really, you know, she's on a boat,

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Speaker 1: the weather is not great, she's calling all these pieces.

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Speaker 1: She could be in the cabin though she could be

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Speaker 1: chilling and driving the Chuck driving the ship. It's not

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Speaker 1: that hard to drive a boat. It's not that hard

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Speaker 1: to drive a boat. And Chuck had learned to drive

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Speaker 1: the boat. So they've been living together for a year,

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Speaker 1: they've been dating for at least two at that point,

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Speaker 1: and she was always on the boat, so he had

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Speaker 1: to have learned how to drive the boat, and if

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Speaker 1: nothing else, at least open water. So then you're saying, yeah, okay, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: you stay up here and you know, hate this by yourself.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go down to the cabin and make up

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Speaker 1: phone calls. Yeah, but yeah, I'm sure steering the boat. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they totally did. I've done that before when

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Speaker 1: on long trips here you take the wheel. I'm done

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Speaker 1: with this for a while. I take a lot of

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Speaker 1: boat trips occasionally, yea, I have three hour tours. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna move forward to Friday the twelve. A

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Speaker 1: captain of a ship crossing like you're on saw a

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Speaker 1: small boat bobbing, as he says, it, up and down

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Speaker 1: in the rough sea. Ease. Yeah, that's when the swells

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Speaker 1: for three to five foot. He said that he figured

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Speaker 1: either the pilot of that boat was crazy or they

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Speaker 1: were in trouble. So he called the coast guard to

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Speaker 1: let him know that he had found this boat. Because

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Speaker 1: he approached the boat and nobody was responding, he calls

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Speaker 1: the coastguard. They had already been alerted to the fact

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Speaker 1: that Chuck and Lana hadn't arrived the day before by

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Speaker 1: Lana's dad. He had called the coastguard saying, hey, they

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Speaker 1: didn't arrive. It's been hours. Something's wrong. So the coast

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Speaker 1: guard go. They approached the boat. Um, nobody's on it.

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Speaker 1: The boat itself was just drifting. It was eleven miles

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Speaker 1: northeast of mckinnaw Island, so pretty close close ish, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it called. No, Actually it's it's farther away. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's obvious that the boat had continued to travel, whether

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Speaker 1: on its own power or by the the currents. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to say, but yeah, I mean, it obviously had

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Speaker 1: gone to me when I tracked it on the map.

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Speaker 1: It looks like from the two o'clock phone call onward,

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Speaker 1: the boat must have continued moving under power for some

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Speaker 1: amount of time. It couldn't have just stopped, right, It

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00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 1: couldn't that way was found or it was found it

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00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: wasn't moving in quite the right direction. It wasn't but

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Speaker 1: that's part of that's the currents. But the coast guard

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Speaker 1: go on the boat again, nobody answers their hail. They

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Speaker 1: go on the boat, they find nobody on it, and

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Speaker 1: they don't really find any signs of foul play. There's

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00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: not blood sprayed everywhere, or everything broken or anything crazy

337
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: like that. No ax marks in the frame of the boat. Um,

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00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: there's a there's a number of strange things about the

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Speaker 1: boat itself for the condition that we should talk about. Um,

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Speaker 1: Devon is gonna be very excited because I've used bullet

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Speaker 1: points here. The first thing we're gonna talk about is

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Speaker 1: that the boat's engine was on. It was running though

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00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: the boat was a neutral so it had been idling

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Speaker 1: first a fair amount of time. They had to fuel

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Speaker 1: up after one day, Right, they used an entire of

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Speaker 1: fuel in a day and a half day, day and

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00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: a half and that's its speed. I mean, boats, can

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Speaker 1: you know it's like your car. Your car can idol

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Speaker 1: for a long right, I mean, I guess That's kind

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Speaker 1: of what I'm wondering is were they able to guess,

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Speaker 1: you know, idling for this many hours, it would have

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Speaker 1: used this much gas, So we think it probably though

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00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: that's a good question, because yeah, I guess usage Obviously

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Speaker 1: they were going under power somewhere for a while, and

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Speaker 1: although you know, you never know, it might be kind

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00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,160
Speaker 1: of useless to try to estimate that because somebody else

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00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: could have taken the boat us and refueled it. And

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00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: that's true adrift, that's true. Yeah, Yeah, And I haven't

359
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: seen anything that tried to plot how much fuel usage

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Speaker 1: there was, because I don't know that anybody ever said

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Speaker 1: and there was X amount of fuel left in the tank.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen that either, So I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: have to I guess I have to just assume that

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Speaker 1: the coast guard probably knows they're talking about and if

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Speaker 1: they thought it was well, they would have done it.

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Speaker 1: I hope they probably, Yeah. And of course, another another

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Speaker 1: good question to ask is if you search the boat,

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Speaker 1: do you find like a spare five gallon gas scan

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Speaker 1: somewhere and is it full or empty? Yeah? You know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And then again that's something I've never heard of. And

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Speaker 1: another question I'd like to hear answer it is did

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Speaker 1: they have any kind of dinghy or lifeboat on this

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Speaker 1: thing and was it present. If they had any kind

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Speaker 1: of lifeboat, it would have had to have been an inflatable.

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Speaker 1: This boat is way too small to have anything but inflatable.

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Speaker 1: Per The last time we talked about uh, oh is

377
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 1: um the one we had our intern on right the

378
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 1: emergency because we actually look I actually looked up and

379
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Speaker 1: requirement and it sounds like Laana was, you know, pretty

380
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Speaker 1: responsible boat owner, and so she would have been required

381
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Speaker 1: to have an inflatable life up anything. Really. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I do know that the boat had a lot of

383
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Speaker 1: p f d S life jackets. So besides a lot

384
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: of those boats the seat cushions or technically flotation devices,

385
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 1: but it also had four life vests on their actual

386
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: life vests not the right as far as I understand,

387
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: they were, because they're always referred to as p f

388
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 1: d s, which is a personal flotation device, which to

389
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: me does not infer that it was a seat cushion,

390
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: but it was actually something you could put on. Well, actually, uh,

391
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: p FD is anything. That's why a life jacket is

392
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: a little bit distinct, just like a propeller is a

393
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: little bit distinct from a screw. A propeller screw as

394
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: a propeller. A propeller is not necessarily a screw, like

395
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Speaker 1: I really hate it when he pulls out his knotic knowledge. Well,

396
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 1: but they also make They also make and I don't

397
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: I suspect they did not have this on the ship.

398
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: But they do also make body suits that are personal

399
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: flotation devices that are mainly for crews of ships that

400
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: are going across the Atlantic. Because they're insulated, they keep

401
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: you alive, they have a little bit of resources, they

402
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: have lights and stuff like that. But they are also

403
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: pf okay, but typically p f d s are life yes,

404
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: And I think looking at the images that I've seen

405
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: of this particular boat, I don't think that the seats

406
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: were floatation devices. I think they were actual life jackets.

407
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: I think it's probably like that she had four life

408
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: jackets on the boat, and apparently she always had four

409
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: on there, that's what she kept. Those four life jackets

410
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: were not there when they found the boat. Those were gone.

411
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: The running lights of the boat were not turned on,

412
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 1: so they were off, but the stereo was apparently on.

413
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: It's said that the stereo was on and it was

414
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: turned to a Christian station, which wasn't something that the

415
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: pair were known to listen to. So obviously we're talking

416
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: Christian pirates here. Well, I don't, I have no I

417
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: can't substantiate that anywhere. It's just you see, it's it's

418
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: one of those things that you see danced. Even on

419
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: top of that, I mean, if I have a radio,

420
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 1: my radio tune to one channel, I drive two hours

421
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: outside of Portland and suddenly it's a totally different thing exactly.

422
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: You know. So if they were, you know, or five

423
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: hours away, they had one radio station on, it could

424
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: be something totally different by the time they will agree

425
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: with that. Also, also, some stations will just occasionally play

426
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: you something that's kind of Christian. So at the moment

427
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: that you happened aboard the vote that that one song

428
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: is playing something by Amy and what's your face? I

429
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: can't remember her name now, anyway, possible it wasn't even

430
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: a Christian, But I still like the idea of Christian pirates.

431
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: We're not talk, you're you're weight, you're head of a game.

432
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: The GPS unit on the boat, and there's there's a

433
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: lot of contention over this, and we're gonna talk about

434
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: this morning theories, but the GPS unit is said to

435
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 1: have turned on around one thirty am on the twelve.

436
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna we're gonna talk about in more depth on

437
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: how that's looked at. But can we talk about how

438
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: they know that? Okay, So GPS units they have, this

439
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: particular GPS unit has a certain number of track points.

440
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: You say, your GPS unit to log a data point

441
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: every something, whether it's a distance or a time, and

442
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: it stops tracking data points and sometime on the eleventh,

443
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: and then suddenly at one thirty a m. On the

444
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: twelve starts tracking data points again. Okay, this was a GPS,

445
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: right it I can't verify that. I believe that it

446
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: was a garment. Yes, okay, we'll talk more about that. Okay, Yeah,

447
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: the GPS. So it was about the size of the

448
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: television set absolutely. Yeah. Well it's in a two thousand

449
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: four boats or two thousand one boat, so I don't

450
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: know what size it was. It could have been half

451
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: of the boat for all we know. It was actually

452
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: the entire deck of the boat because the older GPS

453
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: is were that bit they were I remember, and they

454
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: didn't actually have a screen. They just had this printer

455
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: that's spat out coordinates. Yeah. Actually, and the cabin is

456
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: actually halfway taken up with air conditioning units and whole thing. Yeah,

457
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's true. Yeah, yeah, this is totally accurate.

458
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: We're not making any of this up. Okay, So what

459
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: else did they Okay, So more about the GPS unit though.

460
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: One of the mounting knobs for the GPS unit was

461
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: found jammed in the bottom of lana sneaker. Are we

462
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: talking just like little knob, Like the knob that I

463
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: would say is the handle of the knob would be

464
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: like two inches or so around that big. I think

465
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: it would be more like about this size. That's kind

466
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: of excess. That's huge. That's kind of huge. Yeah, and

467
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: then it has a screw coming out, and then it

468
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: has a screw was stuck. Yeah, and the screw head,

469
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: you know, it's a flat machine screw. It's what is

470
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,239
Speaker 1: jammed into the bottom of her sneaker. So she had

471
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: a fight with her GPS and the back of her sneaker,

472
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: which was the whole sneaker obviously is on the deck,

473
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: but the back of the sneaker was also torn. I like,

474
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: I just have to point out no signs of foul play.

475
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: Sneaker with things in it in it back, torn, no

476
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: signs of foul play, totally normal, strange. While I admit

477
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: that is strange, I don't know that it's actually a

478
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: sign of foul play. I don't either, but I just

479
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: liked the like. I guess the statement, the idea that

480
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: a torn sneaker is definitely not a sign of foul play.

481
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: The sneaker weeks ago. You never know, they're her favorite sneakers,

482
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: gonna wear them out. I have to apologize to our

483
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: listeners for having just said, like the like, it's been

484
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: a long day. Well, let's talk about the like the

485
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: like rope that was on the back of the boat,

486
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: because there was a twenty foot rope drifting behind the boat,

487
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 1: tied to the boat. What is that like six meters

488
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: six ms? Yeah, it was trailing behind the boat. When

489
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: the captain of the boat of the ship that spotted

490
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: Sees Life approached the boat, he said he saw two

491
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: rubber blue rubber bumpers tied to that rope. And rubber bumpers,

492
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with it, they're kind of round

493
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: rubbery cylinder guys that you would stick between the boat

494
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: and a dog. Yeah, an the answer these two tongues

495
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: that stick out, and when the coast guard showed up,

496
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: there was no bumpers. There was no blue bumpers tied

497
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: to that rope. And I'm sorry, did we say what

498
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: time that ship found the boat. He saw sometime in

499
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: the morning, and the coast guard got to it sometime

500
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: that morning. It's never specified exactly, but if we don't

501
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: even know pre dawn dawn, I would say before noon.

502
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: I believe that, yes, it was daylight when they because

503
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: they found the boat. And I think that's one of

504
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: the reasons that the running lights not being on is

505
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: noted because it had obviously been out there all night long.

506
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: So if somebody had been on it at night, you

507
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: would believe they would normally turn on the running lights.

508
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,239
Speaker 1: But that wasn't the case. The as I think, as

509
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: we talked about a little bit before, there's a swim

510
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: ladder on this boat. The swim ladder was up, so

511
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't dropped into the water. In the trash can,

512
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: there was an empty bottle of vodka. It was a

513
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: fifth of vodka. They've been out there for how many days?

514
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: This was their second day? Okay, yep, And oh look

515
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: at this, all of their personal effects and their money

516
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: is accounted for, no personal belongings appeared to be missing. Well,

517
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: now here's the deal. Then they say they found their

518
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: their wallets and all that stuff, like you know, on

519
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: the boat. They say they found their clothes on the

520
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: boat where they closed below decks or are they up

521
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: in the cockpit or the well of the boat. The

522
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: images that I saw it gives me the impression that

523
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: there was some stuff strewn around. But this is above deck.

524
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: But it was like, you know, a pair of shorts

525
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: and a towel or something. And I'm working for memory here.

526
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what it was. But and I've

527
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: never really seen photos of below decks. I mean, I

528
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: had to go looking for similar boats to get an

529
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: idea of what it looked in the bow. So I

530
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what was where. Yeah, I've

531
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: seen the cats that say their clothes were found on board.

532
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: I just don't wonder if it like, you know, in

533
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: disarray or in their well, or didn't appear that they

534
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: stripped naked before jumping into the water and dropped their

535
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: clothes right there in the well, or were they're just

536
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: closed stash below decks. I mean, I don't know I don't.

537
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: I can't say I haven't seen anything that that says

538
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: it specifically. Like I said, I've only seen a few

539
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: photos of of the well of the boat when it

540
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: was found. I haven't seen anything in the in the

541
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: actual cabin area. UM. So obviously, of course they find

542
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: this boat, the people that are supposed to be on

543
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: the boat are not on the boat, so a huge

544
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: search goes on. The coast guards got ships running around,

545
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: they've got helicopters. The Canadian Coast Guard is doing the

546
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: same thing. Her family. Lawa's family comes to the area.

547
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: When they get her boat back from the coast Guard,

548
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: they're using it to go around and try and find her.

549
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: Thousands of square miles is this area that they're covering.

550
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: Keep in mind the lake itself is like twenty three

551
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: thousand square miles. It's a huge freaking lake. I got

552
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: an idea, let's use a potential crime scene as a

553
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: means to search for people. It was released, they they

554
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: could pick it up, and they did. Yeah. I don't

555
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: know how long they had in custody though that I mean,

556
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: it must have been for a while, right, They didn't

557
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: just turn around and turn it over to the I

558
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: honestly don't know how long it was in custom. I mean,

559
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: all I know is that the family talks about the

560
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: fact that they took her boat out and they used

561
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: her boat, and there's some issues that are brought up

562
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: later on that they're like, we totally kept using this

563
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: boat and nobody suffered any ill effects of the No.

564
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: I like it better if the family goes out in

565
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: the boat and they disappear, and then you know, and

566
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: then more family comes out and they disappear, and yeah,

567
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: the boat the boats doing it, I like that better.

568
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: Can we just put that in there? No? Is it

569
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: it's the carry of boats? Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah.

570
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: It basically just like flips over, you know, and then

571
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: writes itself, motors itself baft to the dock, ties itself

572
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: up in that nice crappy nineteen seventies or nineteen eighties

573
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: still photography where a rope wraps itself around something as

574
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: it ties itself. Yeah, we'll totally set this up, guys.

575
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: So we're gonna move forward in time to the August,

576
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: which is two weeks later. Two women spot what they

577
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: believe is a body on the rock shoal of Huron

578
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: Bang and the authorities confer, come out and take the

579
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: body away, and indeed confirmed that it is launa. The

580
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: strange thing about the condition of her body is that

581
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: she is completely naked, short of wearing her watch, a ring,

582
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: and her necklace. Say that strange about that? Well? I

583
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: say that strange because she her family knew that she

584
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: never swam with her jewelry on, which I totally get.

585
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: She always used to put it on her watch band

586
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: and then attach her watch band to the wheel of

587
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: the boat, right, which is really smart. Yes. The other

588
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: reason is that the watch itself was a watch that

589
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: somebody had given her years ago, and it was kind

590
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: of a prize possession. She had recently had it cleaned

591
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: and tuned, so to just jump into the water with

592
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: it and blatantly knowingly destroy it was unlike her. Um.

593
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: The other thing that the thing, Yes, it would have

594
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: to be an extreme situation. She wouldn't just casually hop

595
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: in for a swim with it on, especially the conditions

596
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: what they are and the water temperature. Yeah. Um, it's

597
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: it's very apparent that she was naked when she was

598
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: in the water. It's not as if she went in

599
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: her clothes came off of her. And that's because there

600
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: were no rub marks or wear marks from the clothing,

601
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: and she didn't even have any no underwear, no nothing,

602
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: so it would be apparent, and there wasn't enough time

603
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: for those things to have broken enough up enough forgotten

604
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: water logged enough to come off on their own. Now,

605
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: the only the only thing I could think of is

606
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: that if she went in and then took her clothes up,

607
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: because obviously swimming with clothes wet clothes is very very hard. Well,

608
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: we're not in theories yet, but I will rebuke that

609
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: with who the hell bothers to take off their underwear

610
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 1: when they're taking off their heavy jeans and shirt, You

611
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: don't worry about your underwear. Those are kind of inconsequential.

612
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: I would believe counterpoint, she wasn't wearing any that's possible,

613
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: but on a cold, blustery day, I don't know that

614
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: that's the case. But we're not in theories yet, so

615
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: we're gonna sideline that for a few minutes. Um So

616
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: a little bit uh more about the body, it appears

617
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: that there were no marks or bruises of obvious trauma

618
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: that would have caused her to die. Sorry, I had

619
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: one question, uh so do we know what time did

620
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: the watch stop? That it's not said we don't know.

621
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I've never seen what the time

622
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: stamp was. That that is an excellent point. And it's

623
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: kind of like an indictment of American journalism that these

624
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: frigging reporters who have massively more resources but watch the

625
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: watch could potentially be water resistant, so then they'd have

626
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: to do the math, and you know, reporters don't like math.

627
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of kryptonite. I just feel like you

628
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: can say the watch stopped at this time and it

629
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: still gives you a freely understand and you know what,

630
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: the police may not have ever released that information. Possibly

631
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: that's completely plausible too. But the body, like I said,

632
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: there's no marks to the outward sign of obvious trauma.

633
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: The medical examer does rule that she did drown that

634
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: was the cause of death. The only other thing that

635
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: they call out is that there was almost no alcohol

636
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: in her system at all, which means it's probably from

637
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: the drinks that she a few drinks she'd had the

638
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 1: night before, but it wasn't as if she had been

639
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: boozing it up on the eleventh. But she prior to her.

640
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: But she also had elevated levels of carbon monoxide in

641
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: her system, which we'll talk about. So I guess really

642
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: where we're at now is there's a couple of things.

643
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: So Chuck's body has never been found. Chuck has never

644
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: been found. Let's just be clear, Yes, Chuck has never

645
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,959
Speaker 1: been found. Mystery is what happened on CS life that day?

646
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: What happened to cause Lana ago into the water and

647
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: and die? Did Chuck die that day? And if so,

648
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: how and if not, where is he? Those those are

649
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: our mysteries here. So let's go into theory. Let mystery.

650
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm tired of it already. So theory number one is

651
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: that it was an accident due to skinny dipping. Okay,

652
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: this is actually one that you'll see bandied about on

653
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: the internet's a lot really well, no, I actually I

654
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: totally understand Initially, without doing any reading on the on

655
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: the conditions and all of that, people like, well, they

656
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: probably decided that it would be a good idea to

657
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: just jump off the boat and go skinny dipping. And

658
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: I just like, real quick run through why this is

659
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: a bad idea. I know it's railroading you a little

660
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: bit but like, okay, in the middle of a storm,

661
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: it's cold, it's the middle of the night. She didn't

662
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: have any in the middle of the night, but it

663
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: was the daytime whatever. It didn't have any alcohol in

664
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: her system, so she was making good decisions. Also the watch,

665
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: also the necklace, also the ring. No, yeah, the only

666
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: thing that I'll add to that is that the air

667
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: temperature was in the mid to loose sixties and the

668
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: water was sixty degree although, on the other hand, which

669
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: is not something that would incline me as a man

670
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: to jump into the especially do not like to climb

671
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: into cold water naked and come back out again. Honest

672
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: with you, guys, I have at one point. Sorry if

673
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: this is over sharing, it's very drunkenly gone skinny tomping

674
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: on the Oregon coast in the middle of winter. So

675
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: it's colder, the water's colder. But I was so drunk

676
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: I didn't even feel it right, But you have to

677
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: be you have to be super drunk. I think that's

678
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: a good idea. Lana had almost no booze in or

679
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: so that doesn't work. And to watch, Yeah, people really

680
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: easily I understand why this is an easy go too

681
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: thin but yeah, I just I don't think that that's

682
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: that's gonna work. I mean, people also say, well, oh, well,

683
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 1: they must have been doing that, and that's why there

684
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: was a line off the boat, because that's how they

685
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: were making sure the boat didn't get away from him.

686
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: But I've been I've jumped off a boat. I got

687
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: convinced once to jump off of an unmoored boat, and

688
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: that thing, in almost no winds and on a flat lake,

689
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: started to move on its own really quickly. Also, you

690
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: don't put your boat in idle, you turn it off.

691
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: And also you probably drop an anchor. Yeah, makes sense.

692
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of holes with this difference.

693
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: Swimming you need the ladder down, you don't need the

694
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 1: ladder to get off of the boat. That's an important

695
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: part of the skinny dipping theory. But this is actually

696
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: suddenly I've suddenly had a flash of realization that we've

697
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: just solved the Mary Celeste. Yes, obviously, Well, now that

698
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: we've changed stories, let's go to our next theory on

699
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste. Yeah, so the next theory is that

700
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: Chuck pushed her overboard and ran away with the circus,

701
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: or actually probably they were having some domestic issues that

702
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: turned into a domestic dispute. Before we go too deep

703
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: in this theory, I'm sorry, maybe you're going to talk

704
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: about this in the theory. Do we know what the

705
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: message that Lana left for her male friend, so we

706
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: know that most of it. Yes, we will, we'll talk

707
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: about a little bit. Okay. So this one also is popular,

708
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: and that's because it's got some anecdotal evidence to support

709
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: it to sort of lay the theory out. The theory

710
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 1: out is that Chuck peeved off at Laa for some reason,

711
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: like say, maybe getting ready to break up with him, Uh,

712
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 1: decides that he's had enough, and he shoves her overboard,

713
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: and then he drives the boat somewhere and runs away. Well, okay,

714
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: I gotta say, though, you know, if I were dating

715
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: somebody and I was planning on breaking up with her,

716
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: probably yeah, I probably wouldn't be wanting to have have

717
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: this long vacation with them. I mean, at this point,

718
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: I'm done with them. So people make a lot of

719
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: strange decisions when they're in relationships. We can all look

720
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: back and say, I was really pretty done with that,

721
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: But why did we do that thing? Or why did

722
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: they like this? Stuff happens logically after the fact. It's

723
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: easy to say I should never have done that, But

724
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: at the time your people rationalize and convince themselves to

725
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: do a lot of funny things. I don't know, it's

726
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: pretty easy to say, I'm going to break up with

727
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: this guy on a boat in the middle of a lake,

728
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: like that's a bad decision, no matter what was I'm

729
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: sure she didn't plan on breaking up your boat, no,

730
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: But I mean, if you're about to do it, you're

731
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: not going to go into a secluded, dangerous situation with him, probably,

732
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Let's talk about though I know

733
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: what you're talking, I know where you guys are heading

734
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: with this, and let's give some of the preamble first

735
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: before we get too much into that. So let's talk

736
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: about Devin Um. I actually realized I've got the contents

737
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: of the call, or the general information about the call

738
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: right here. So the call that was made to the

739
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: male friend was a man that Chuck was evidently very

740
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: jealous of, and she had told people that she was

741
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: a cousin of hers was having a wedding that that summer,

742
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: and she was going to go and her intention was

743
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: to this other man and not Chuck. Now, did this

744
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: other man live in Detroit? He was in the area,

745
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: I believe, I mean, Chuck evidently knew him because Chuck

746
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: was jealous of him. So I've got to believe that

747
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: he operated in the same circles. He's not like he's

748
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: a friend that lived on the West coast or something

749
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: or far far away. Certainly check it would be unhappy

750
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, absolutely. And

751
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: the thing is why, so why was she gonna get

752
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: rid of him? Well, Chuck's behavior, there were times where

753
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: he have exhibited some really bad behavior. Chuck was kind

754
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: of a bad drunk from what I heard. Yeah, that's

755
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: exactly so. He Remember I said he came from a

756
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: family of lawyers. There is speculation that he should have

757
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: been invited to practice at his father's firm, but instead

758
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: he wasn't because apparently, according to some people, he had

759
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: a tendency to take a two martini lunch that turned

760
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: into a three martini lunch that then stretched into the

761
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning, and he'd never come back

762
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: to the office. So he had a habit of drinking

763
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: too much. And these people who are saying this, are

764
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: they reputable sources. They sound like they're actually a lot

765
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: of family. There are people who knew them. That sounds

766
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: like it's from Laana's family. But I can't substantiate that

767
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 1: because it's always just and this happened, and this is said,

768
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 1: it's it's insinuated. But the sources never cited. But he

769
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: did have a tendency to turn into a total d

770
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: bag when he had a bunch of booze in him.

771
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: That happened to some people. It's actually a lot of people, Yeah,

772
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: it really does. There are at least three times that

773
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: people have pointed out where Chuck got himself kicked out

774
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: of bars because he was supposedly too drunk. But that

775
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean he was being aggressive. That means he

776
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: was cut off and and told. But there's also a

777
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: time where he supposedly got into a fight with Laura

778
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: to the point that people who were there decided that

779
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: it was so bad they had to get in between

780
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: the couple. To be honest, yelling and name calling and

781
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: pointing and being just a super saucy drunk does not

782
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: mean that somebody's inclined to do harm to another person

783
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: while sober or drunk. I mean I'm not defending that behavior,

784
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that it's not an A equals

785
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: B scenario. But you know, she also said to her friends,

786
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: she said that, listen, if anything ever happens to me,

787
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: look at my boyfriend. Well he, if anything ever happens

788
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: to the police will look at your boyfriend. They will.

789
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen pictures of them. Um, she is

790
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: super attractive. He is not unattractive, of but I can

791
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: see why he would think maybe she was a bit

792
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: out of his league and get jealous, but quickly I'm sure. Yeah,

793
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 1: people have said that he was he had, he had

794
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: totally he was out of his league with her. Yeah. Well,

795
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: and you know, for as someone who is also kind

796
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: of just outgoing and flirty by nature. Um, you know

797
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: I've been yeah, Steve, as Steve, I'm talking as Steve

798
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: right now. I've been in situations where, you know, I've

799
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: definitely dated people who felt like that was unacceptable. And

800
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, you go out to the bar, you have

801
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, you just engage with people the

802
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: way you engage with people, and they perceived that as

803
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: being really flirty and inappropriate, and you get in a

804
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: fight and then you know things get heated, and I

805
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: mean I can, but I can also see that if

806
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: the friends were drunk, they might perceive that as a

807
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: very much more serious situation than it actually was. If everybody,

808
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: if everybody involved is at the bar, that means alcohol

809
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: is involved, which means that your memory cannot be totally trusted,

810
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: and your impressions or perceptions of the situation may be skewed. Yeah,

811
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I get overly protective of my friends when

812
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: I get a little drunk, and if they're getting in

813
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: a little kind of you know, snippy spat with there

814
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 1: see another, I am immediately like, oh my god, stop

815
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: abusing her. That's the worst, right, So I can understand

816
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: all her friends when I perceived that, even if it

817
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily true, but also it could have been true.

818
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: I got around this by just not having friends who

819
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: are nasty drunks. Yeah, that is an easy way. That

820
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: isn't totally an easy way to solve it. But the

821
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: other thing is that what we don't know is so

822
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: that that comment of the fact that she said, well,

823
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: if anything ever happens to me, look at my boyfriend.

824
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: We have no idea if she was being serious or sarcastic. Well,

825
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,479
Speaker 1: do we have any idea if anybody even actually said that.

826
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: She supposedly said that to a friend, and that friend

827
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: apparently has taken it to be serious after the fact,

828
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 1: who was his friend? And you know when as she said,

829
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: and she even talking about this boyfriend, I mean, look

830
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: at me, hands in the air, look on my face,

831
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: like I I have no idea who made this statement. Again,

832
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: these are things that are bandied about. Got to bring

833
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: them all up. Whether I I hold it to be

834
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: correct or not, I don't know. Um, There's there's some

835
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: other things that I really I have a lot of

836
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: hesitation with. And that's some other witnesses. And these are

837
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: late breaking witnesses and that came out like long after

838
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,879
Speaker 1: R Yes, So there's there's two witnesses that we're gonna

839
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: talk about here. There is one. Uh, This gentleman came

840
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: forward like nine months or ten months after Lana and

841
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: Chuck disappeared, and it is he said that he was

842
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: driving down the street and he was going by a

843
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: local casino and he saw a man and a woman

844
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 1: having a fight and the man was waving his arms around,

845
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: looked like he was hitting the woman and trying to

846
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: shove in the car, and then she ran away and

847
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: got in another car and took off, and he followed

848
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: that car until at some point he stopped following that car.

849
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: And he was pretty sure that that was Chuck. He

850
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: was positive, actually, he says he's positive it was them.

851
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: It was Chuck. But it was nine months later, and

852
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: it happened a month before they different period, So we're

853
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: talking ten months. And if you listen to this guy,

854
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't buy him. He We've seen too

855
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: many people come forward after the fact in stories like

856
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: this to get the media attention that I really really

857
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: am hesitant to buy his story. You know. I mean,

858
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: maybe maybe Lana was in denial about the terrible situation

859
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: that her relationship had turned into with Chuck's drinking. I

860
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: don't know that people do that. It happens. But you

861
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: know what, this guy, I can't add any credibility to him.

862
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: He's not the only one who came forward though. There

863
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: are two ladies who came forward again eight nine months later,

864
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: after a story aired on the TV saying that they

865
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: were in hur On Bay on the eleventh and that

866
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: they saw a boat drifting close to the rocks and

867
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: They also saw another boat speeding out of the bay,

868
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: but they couldn't see who or how many people were

869
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: on it, but they were pretty sure that it was

870
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: sees life on here on bay is important to them

871
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: because that is where Lata's body was found. The problem is,

872
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: the currents drift from north to south. So how in

873
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: the hell did the boat get from the bay all

874
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: the way to eleven miles northeast of Mackinaw Island if

875
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: nobody was on it? Well, and also how is it

876
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: that the boat sort of drifted in close to the

877
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: rocks and then reversed its course on on its own

878
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: and drifted away again. Yeah, I mean, you know if

879
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: it's stripped in towards the rocks, and and as far

880
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,879
Speaker 1: as the boat speeding away, well, it's water. It's a lake.

881
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: You're gonna see boat speeding around exactly. People that are yeah,

882
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: it happens. It's crazy, but it happened. I've seen it

883
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: with my own eyes, So let's uh. So we talked

884
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: about a little bit, the fact that there is the

885
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: phone call and so people were continuous. So we've talked

886
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: about these late breaking witnesses. We're still in the theory

887
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: that the Chuck shoved here overboard on purpose. Yeah, I

888
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: mean I could totally see this. If he's insecure and

889
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: a little jealous, he might be like, once she's not around,

890
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: she's in the head picking up her phone, you know,

891
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: and having a look at you know who she's calling. Yeah. Um,

892
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: so you know, it's possible that, you know, he they

893
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: have a he overhears part of her conversation and then

894
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: he gets angry and he shoves her overboard. It's possible

895
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: he didn't know that he wasn't going to a wedding

896
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: with her and just suddenly found out and lost his mind. Well, uh,

897
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that he didn't even know there was a

898
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: wedding taking place. I Yeah, I gotta be honest with you.

899
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: I would not be super stoked if I found out

900
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: that my boyfriend was taking another girl to a wedding. Yeah,

901
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: I was, actually, is this this is bad on my part?

902
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 1: I was. I was dating a woman and she broke

903
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 1: up with me, specifically because I went to a wedding

904
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: without her. I would probably break up with Yeah. Yeah, okay,

905
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: yeah that's okay. Can you go with someone else? Well now, okay,

906
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: then that's fine. Yeah, I had my reasons for not

907
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: wanting to take her with and I just never should

908
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: have missed. You didn't replace her. I didn't replace her.

909
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: That's not bad. Take a different date. Yeah, that that

910
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: that was that wass off. But yeah, so you can

911
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 1: see how he would be upset. We can see how

912
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: he would shove her into the water. It does a

913
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 1: little bit explain possibly why she had carbononoxide in her

914
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: system if she goes into the water, because she would

915
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: be trying to get on the boat where she's at

916
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: the back of the boat where the swim deck is,

917
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: which is also where the exhaust of the boat is.

918
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: You can see why she would be breathing that in.

919
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: But it still doesn't explain to me. And I know

920
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: that we're gonna have this conversation again, but it still

921
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: doesn't explain to me why she was buck naked, also

922
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: why the back of her tennis shoes were and why

923
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: the GPS was the amount of the GPS was in

924
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 1: her shoe. I mean that that, you know, because if

925
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: they're having a fight of that magnitude, there are signs

926
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: of foul play on the boat, Yes, there there would be,

927
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: and if there aren't, if it's intentional, he couldn't throw

928
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: the sneakers overboard. You don't leave that stuff around if

929
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: you like just accidentally push your girlfriend overboard and she's dead.

930
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: You talked that overboard too, and pull the knob out

931
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: and put it back in the GPS problem and then

932
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: he tossed the sneaker overboard, right, Yeah, so that's my

933
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: problem with that. Yeah. Well, and there's i mean people

934
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 1: point to for this theory. People say, well, obviously Chuck

935
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: was drunk that day because there's an empty vodka bottle

936
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: in the trash can. She doesn't probably have probably consumed

937
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: the night before or at some point in the past.

938
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: It felt like she's got a maid service that comes

939
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: on to her boat and takes the trash away for Yeah,

940
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows how long it's been it. It

941
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: could have you know, it could have been a half

942
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: a half a theft and they polished it off the

943
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: night before. Could be even less. Yeah, a couple of shots. Yeah,

944
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: you have no idea that she just had on the boat. Yeah,

945
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,000
Speaker 1: so you could have finished it like months ago and

946
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: you're just chilling there. It had been there for a

947
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: long time. You you just don't know. I would think

948
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: what these two apparently they both like to drink. You

949
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: think they'd be a substantial stock of booze on board. Well,

950
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a lot of room for

951
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 1: that substantial stock of booze. Joe. There was a pretty

952
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: tight Harners in the bottle of that boat. And in

953
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: addition to that, it's not as though they were like

954
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: staying overnight really that much on the boat, right. They

955
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: they stopped and they got dinner and maybe had a

956
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: couple of drinks, and then got back on and stayed

957
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: the night. She seemed to be trying to be responsible

958
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: and stay with family the next day. Yeah, they probably

959
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: came back to the boat, had a shot and you know,

960
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:01,240
Speaker 1: wants to sleep, you know. But yeah, it's hard to say. So. Um,

961
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: I mean, just the problems with the late breaking witness

962
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 1: theories or the witness statements, Excuse me, I have a

963
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: lot of issue with that. And then I mean this,

964
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 1: this theory continues on that the chuck must have turned

965
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: off the GPS and then drove the boat somewhere else.

966
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 1: Evidently he must have drove it north before he got off.

967
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: If the ladies, the ladies you spotted the boat and

968
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: Lake Uron are to be believed then, or maybe even

969
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: not that, but somehow he must have taken it north

970
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: and then that's why the boat drifted to where it is.

971
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: People say this because his body hasn't been found, but

972
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 1: it turns out bodies not showing up after they go

973
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:49,280
Speaker 1: into the water in that lake are not uncommon things.

974
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: It's deep, it's a big lake, it's big, it's cold water.

975
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: He's a he was not a small guy. He probably

976
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: weighed more than sheeted. And it's post well that he

977
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,439
Speaker 1: sank float. It's a matter of yeah, it's a matter

978
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: of his body density. And I can't tell totally. He looked,

979
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: doesn't look like he doesn't look like a skinny guy,

980
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 1: you know. So he may not have been as buoyant

981
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: as her. Some people are more buoyant than He could

982
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: have been wearing clothes. He could have had weights on

983
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: his feet because he was working out. It could have

984
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: been wearing concrete like concrete shoes anyway. But here's the

985
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: other thing, is that he might have washed up on

986
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: shore too, somewhere. But here's the deal. This after bodies

987
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: have been in the water for a while, it's kind

988
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: of even hard to recognize him well. But but the

989
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: you know. That's a good point, is that bodies do

990
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 1: wash up, and bodies have washed up. There was a

991
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: body that washed up in two thousand and eight that

992
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: they thought might have been him, but it turned out

993
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: that it wasn't. They also thought that it could have

994
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: been three or four other people who had disappeared in

995
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: the lake. It turned out it was somebody who had

996
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: disappeared a year prior. It's a big freaking lake. He's like,

997
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 1: there's a lot of coastline. It could have washed up

998
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: and been carried away by animals before anybody start, yeah,

999
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,479
Speaker 1: or just got sank to the bottom and the sea

1000
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: life had their way with it. It's not completely crazy

1001
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: that the body quote unquote disappears and there aren't there

1002
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: like little shoals and islands and things like that all

1003
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: over the lake too. I mean, maybe he just washed

1004
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,439
Speaker 1: up there and and it just broke down and yeah,

1005
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: and nature took its course. It could have been he

1006
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 1: actually swammed one of those islands. He's living there now,

1007
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: still living. Yeah. Okay, so you're right, Okay, let's keep

1008
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: going well, because there's some stuff we did not address

1009
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: there that I want to address. But I know we're

1010
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: gonna do that a little bit more here. Um, So

1011
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna move on to this theory, which is it

1012
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: was an accident, but it was Chuck's fault because he

1013
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: was drunk. Okay, this is very similar to that. You're

1014
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: gonna find this in a couple of them. There's a

1015
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: lot of things that bleed through. Again, this is saying

1016
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: he drank all the vodka that day, he was super sauce,

1017
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: and he didn't know her over overboard intentionally, but somehow

1018
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 1: accidentally she went over. He then freaks out and starts

1019
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: throwing the p f D s at her, the life

1020
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: jackets at her to try to get it to her.

1021
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: He he throws a line to her, and then when

1022
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: he can't do get her that way, he decides to

1023
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 1: just go ahead and jump in himself to try and

1024
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: rescue her and bring her back to the boat. They Yeah,

1025
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible, except I can't imagine she went in

1026
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: and just immediately immediately started stripping. I can't either. Yeah,

1027
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: I mean that's the problem I have with this. But

1028
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, otherwise it's pretty solid. But I can see

1029
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: that The problem is is he must have been really

1030
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: sauced or just a really stupid person when he doesn't

1031
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: realize that what he can do is put the boat

1032
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: in neutral and which it was, Yeah, and put it

1033
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: in neutral and actually maybe even turn it around and

1034
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: like head it back towards her a little bit, you know,

1035
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he was drunk. There's no reason

1036
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: to judgment. Well, but maybe okay, let's let's keep this

1037
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: going with this. If indeed he is sauced, his judgment

1038
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: is highly impaired and that logical thought may not occur.

1039
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: If he's not sauced, well, that's a completely different story.

1040
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the carbon monoxide? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Um,

1041
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: she did have carbon monoxide in her bloodstream. Uh it is.

1042
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna apologize because there's been a science here and

1043
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: I really struggled with this. She had a saturation in

1044
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: her blood, which is where it's a little tricky because

1045
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: there's a certain amount of time that you have to

1046
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: inhale carbon monoxide or certain concentrations to reach that. So

1047
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: there's there's different ways that it could have happened, but

1048
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: the general thinking is that to get to percent saturation,

1049
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: she must have been in the exhaust stream of the boat,

1050
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: which means she was hanging around at the swim deck

1051
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: for fifteen to twenty minut it's at which point she

1052
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: would have inhaled enough that caused dizziness and nausea, at

1053
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: which point would mean that she starts to have some

1054
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: issues with maintaining keeping her head above water, and that

1055
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: would have been what caused her to drown. And we said,

1056
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: the swim deck is like a little it's there's a

1057
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: little perch there right the back of the is about

1058
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: eight or twelve inches above the water line. But it's

1059
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: a little there. I don't know this is big enough

1060
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: thing that actually like sit on or anything, but it's

1061
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:32,919
Speaker 1: you can, but it's but it's hard. It's it's hard

1062
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: thing when you're when you're tired to pull yourself up

1063
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: twelve inches out of the water. I mean, I don't

1064
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: know if you've ever tried. I mean, that's not easy

1065
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: to do. But I was just thinking, I mean, she

1066
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: was a tan girl. You know, maybe she thought I'm

1067
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: just gonna sun myself here. But it doesn't sound like

1068
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,959
Speaker 1: it was. The weather doesn't make sense for that into

1069
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: that trap. You're right, but you know, it's it's funny,

1070
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: is that the carbon Relax said. I was reading and

1071
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: there's this thing I can't I believe people do this

1072
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: called teak surfing. Have you heard of that have done it?

1073
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: You've done it, teak surfing as in the wood teak

1074
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: because the boats used to be managed to tea. You

1075
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 1: would hang onto the tea the back of the boat

1076
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: or the side of the boat, and you would either

1077
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: body surf or we're surf on your bare feet, which

1078
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,919
Speaker 1: knowing what a danger is because you're in the exhaustream

1079
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: with the boat is insane to me. People do People

1080
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: do a lot of stupid stuff. I doubt that she would.

1081
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: I don't, especially not in this situation and naked and

1082
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: with all her jewelry. On the other Yeah, And the

1083
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: other thing that I will point out is we you know,

1084
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: having carbon monoxide in your blood stream is not necessarily

1085
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: this immediate bad thing. Smokers have somewhere between five to

1086
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: nine percent in their bloodstream most times, so it's not

1087
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 1: as if it's an instant death sentence. I don't think,

1088
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that the cause of death

1089
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: is carbon monoxide poison. The reason for drowning may have

1090
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: been carbon MONOXI her just yeah, yeah, I was trying

1091
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: to think of the word is disorientation, thank you, Joe. Yeah,

1092
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: it's it's but it doesn't mean that as soon as

1093
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: you read that stuff in you're instantly disoriented and drunk

1094
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: on it. No, I mean there's there's carbon monoxide. If

1095
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: you walk downtown, you know you're gonna be inhaling at

1096
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: least a bit of that. So yeah, next to island traffic,

1097
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: what what at what level do you actually like, you know, die,

1098
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,479
Speaker 1: blood saturation is where you die. That's and that's that's

1099
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: instant death. And for my um just to have to say,

1100
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories about the actual dangers of

1101
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide poisoning is a Reddit post. It's one of

1102
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: the best of If you just best of carbon monoxide poisoning,

1103
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll come up. This guy posted on legal

1104
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: Advice because he thought his uh landlord was breaking into

1105
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: his apartment leaving him sticky notes, and it turned out

1106
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: that he was so poisoned with carbon monoxide that he

1107
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 1: was forgetting that he was writing himself sticky notes and

1108
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: thought that it was his landlord. You should go read

1109
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: the story. But like this can literally happen to people,

1110
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: so that explains a lot to check the carbon monoxide

1111
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: and yeah, but so, I mean, it can be that

1112
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: serious without causing any other kind of side effects. It

1113
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: was just memory loss for this guy. But it doesn't

1114
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: sound like this was prolonged exposure. It was a cute exposure.

1115
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: And again, the reason I brought up earlier the fact

1116
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: that her family had used the boat after the fact

1117
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: is that some people will say, well, obviously there must

1118
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: have been a league and the carbon monoxide was spilling

1119
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: into the cabin somewhere. But if her family is using

1120
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 1: the boat, then somebody else should have experienced the shown

1121
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning. A counterpoint, where was her

1122
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: family sleeping in the cabin, because I guess it's possible

1123
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: that it was leaking in, but they weren't spending enough

1124
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,959
Speaker 1: time in the actual cabin, but that she and Chuck

1125
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 1: were sleeping in didn't have the engine on. And the

1126
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: other problem is that they slept at a dock and

1127
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: then they left and they were traveling. They would have

1128
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: had she was making phone calls in the cabin, Okay,

1129
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: Colonel Mustard, I mean, with the rent more time in

1130
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: the cabin than other people, so she could have been

1131
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: exposed to it more. I understand it's it's grasping. It

1132
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: really is grasping because the engine is at the rear

1133
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: of the boat. That's the problem with with this. But um,

1134
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: the other thing that we'll talk about right now is

1135
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: the GPS snob. So, like we said, that knob is

1136
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: about an inch or two around. It's the kind of

1137
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: thing that when it comes unscrew and it falls to

1138
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: the ground, it's going to fall with the shaft pointing up,

1139
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: which as soon as you step on and it's going

1140
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: to bury itself into your shoe if they're there. Oh yeah.

1141
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: But if it's a tennis shoe, it's not like it's

1142
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: gonna jam your foot and you're gonna throw it that

1143
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: you've stepped on it, you're gonna know, which could explain

1144
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: why she tore out of it. Because she was walking

1145
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 1: and she stepped on it and she twists. You could

1146
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: see how that would cause her tennis shoe to tear

1147
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: in the motion. It's possible. I'm not saying it's the

1148
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: right answer, but it's possible. Are we talking. I'm sorry,

1149
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: we're talking tennis shoes like you're wearing right now. Are

1150
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 1: we talking? Yeah? Okay, I mean it feels like it

1151
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: would take a lot to tear the back out of

1152
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: those tennis shoes. But you would think so, But I've

1153
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: had tennis shoes tear and it's amazing. You know, it's

1154
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: like tearing a phone book. You see the guy do,

1155
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: It's like it's never gonna holy crap. Once it starts,

1156
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 1: you just go. That could have been worn to Yeah,

1157
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: because they weren't brand new shoes. Yeah. So let's uh,

1158
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit more though about the GPS

1159
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: unit because there's some things about it that we haven't covered.

1160
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: You remember we talked about the data points. You were

1161
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 1: asking about what the heck the deal was with those.

1162
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: So here's the the numbers. So we actually have some

1163
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: numbers here. The GPS unit on her boat was able

1164
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 1: to track two thousand and data points or location points

1165
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,640
Speaker 1: that you would input and say, show me this thing

1166
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 1: or that it was tracking. It would log to do

1167
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: it automatically, right right, So whatever it's uh, we'll get

1168
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: in some details in a sec. There were one thousand,

1169
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 1: eight hundred eighty five of that possible two thousand data

1170
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: points logged. And like I said, there's a gap between

1171
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: sometime in the afternoon on the eleventh and one thirty

1172
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 1: am in the morning of the twelve, which where there's

1173
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: nothing missing, and people point to this one hundred and

1174
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: fifteen missing location or data points yes as indicating that

1175
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,919
Speaker 1: there's something going on in that time lag. People will

1176
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: actually say, well, obviously somebody went in there and they

1177
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 1: deleted that stuff so that you didn't know where the

1178
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: boat was, which is a little hinky to me. That

1179
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: seems silly. And I say that because thanks to some

1180
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: forums of people who are boat enthusiasts I and they

1181
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: also happened to pick up this particular story, I got

1182
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of information, which is it's believed that her

1183
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: boat was probably using a garment one thirty And if

1184
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: you go to look up a garment one now be

1185
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: aware that the garment still uses the name garment one.

1186
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: It's completely different than it used to be. And it

1187
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: was one of those things that would come standard on

1188
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: the boat or come with the boat. This I believe

1189
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: this was an aftermarket after the fact. Addition, it was

1190
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: not if the if the knob had come loose, It's

1191
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: not something that would be flush mounted into the dash

1192
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: of the boat. It's something that was mounted on after

1193
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 1: the fact on kind of a swivel mount. That's the

1194
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 1: kind of technology you really don't want to buy that's

1195
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: installed in vote because this changed it so fast. Yeah yeah, no,

1196
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 1: I mean my car's GPS is my cars a year

1197
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: old and the GPS system I used the one on

1198
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 1: my phone because it's better than what was in a

1199
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: brand new car. So yeah, the same, same exact theory.

1200
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: But these, uh, these folks on this forum helped me

1201
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: figure out that. Like I said, they think it's a

1202
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 1: one thirty and that particular unit, or actually a lot

1203
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: of units, but this one in particular had three modes.

1204
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: It had OFF, which means it didn't track any data points.

1205
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: It had what was called called phil, which means it

1206
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: tracked until it filled up and then it stopped tracking

1207
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: any data points. Or it had wrapped, which was it

1208
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 1: tracked up until it reached almost capacity, at which point

1209
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: it deleted the oldest data points to have space to

1210
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: keep recording on top of its overwriting the data. What

1211
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: we don't know, and I want to point this out,

1212
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: is I doubt that it was over writing them one

1213
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: at a time. Most likely what it did is it

1214
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: wipe blocks of memory out, So let's just say it's

1215
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 1: block it wipes out two hundred of the oldest data

1216
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: points and then the thing keeps going so it hits capacity,

1217
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:23,479
Speaker 1: wipes two hundred and then keeps logging. Well, that would

1218
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: explain why it's this random number of a hundred and fifteen,

1219
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,719
Speaker 1: because it hasn't reached that minimum before it wipes another

1220
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: two hundred. Well, I don't know what the minnow number

1221
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: wipe is. I'm making two hundred up. It's unred. But

1222
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: here's the deal. As anybody actually published the track that

1223
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: was stored on the GPS, the police police have it,

1224
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: but you know it's from what I've gathered, it's follows

1225
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 1: the route that they were heading to Mackinaw Island, and

1226
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: then at some point in there it's stopped, and then

1227
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 1: it began again when the boat was drifting relatively where

1228
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: it was found by the coast guard. But here's that's

1229
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: a little suspicious. Well if that's the case, though, then

1230
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean if it if it's tracked their entire journey

1231
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: with just a small interruption in the middle, with a

1232
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 1: six or twelve hour gap. But so I guess my

1233
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: question is is was it battery powered or was it plugged?

1234
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: It was dependent on the power of the ship. The

1235
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: boat was, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the boat

1236
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: was on idle the entire time. Right, So if they

1237
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: turned the boat off and it's not receiving power, if

1238
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't have a battery pack, no, no, it would.

1239
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,960
Speaker 1: It would be wired into the boat system. I mean,

1240
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 1: you've been on a boat. You turn the engine off,

1241
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: you still have electricity until the battery drains. But once

1242
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,719
Speaker 1: the battery drains, you can't turn the boat back on.

1243
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: But so, I mean, what's to say there wasn't an

1244
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 1: electrical problem for a minute during the I Actually I'm

1245
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: not going to disagree with that, because here's the thing

1246
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: Lana had had. I don't know what it was, but

1247
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: she had had some work done to her GPS unit,

1248
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: which gives me the indication, uh that it makes total

1249
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: sense that one of the knobs would have come loose

1250
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: in two days of constantly driving over not smooth water.

1251
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: That thing's gonna unscrew itself. Okay, now it's rattling along

1252
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 1: on only one screw holding it in place. I can

1253
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: see how the power connection could come loose or if

1254
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 1: it's using I believe it hadn't built in antenna. But

1255
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 1: let's just presume that maybe it had an external antenna.

1256
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 1: The antenna could have come disconnected a little bit, which

1257
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 1: if it can't get any data, it can't log anything.

1258
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 1: Then let's move forward in time to now the season rougher.

1259
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: The thing is bouncing around, the connection could have rattled

1260
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: good enough for it to turn back on. I am

1261
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 1: making this is pure conjecture, but I'm just looking at well, okay,

1262
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:06,799
Speaker 1: well somebody worked on it. It's only got one knob

1263
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,759
Speaker 1: on it. I don't know if you've ever had anything

1264
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: that connects in two points and one of them comes loose.

1265
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: Things really start riding around really fast, and plugs they

1266
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 1: come loose, Well, yeah they did. Was there any evidence

1267
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: that it maybe have been duct taped into place or

1268
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: anything like that? Again, nobody ever said, And the GPS

1269
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: unit was all duct tape on the back side. They

1270
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: use hot glue all over that mother. Nobody ever said that.

1271
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: That's what I do. Maybe maybe some nails nailed the

1272
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: cable in place. I guess, yeah, I just I don't

1273
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 1: find the missing data points nearly as suspicious as other

1274
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: people do, just based on the conditions of the boat

1275
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: and everything that it went through through that, Yeah, I mean,

1276
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: I do think that, you know, it's entirely possible it

1277
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, pirates actually, but I'm talking pirates. I'm not

1278
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 1: talking guys and ships like taking them over, but guys

1279
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: that basically uh board the boat at some place like

1280
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:11,680
Speaker 1: there are a lot the last place they gassed the

1281
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: boat up and borrowing the boat for something because they

1282
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: were close to Canada. You might not know this or not,

1283
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 1: but there's a very profitable business smuggling cigarettes across the

1284
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: Canadian border. So I mean, maybe are you being serious.

1285
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm seriously, they could have taken them, murder them, not

1286
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: just cigarettes. Even though it seems like a hell of

1287
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: a thing to do to smuggle cigarettes, to to to

1288
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: throw two people overboard. It does. But but I mean

1289
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: that's that's just one thing. I mean, the cigarettes is

1290
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: less likely. But suppose this. It's by the way, we're

1291
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: now in the pirate theory. For anybody who hasn't picked

1292
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 1: that up. We just moved right into the pirates is

1293
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: the pirate theory. But it wasn't. I'm thinking more like

1294
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: for smuggling people. If you want to boat and you

1295
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 1: want to get from you want to get some people

1296
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: into the US from Canada, let's stay there. You know

1297
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: some al Quaeda types, you know, who want to come

1298
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 1: into the country and they don't really feel like walking

1299
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: over the mountains. They can't go to a checkpoint, so

1300
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 1: you murder a couple of people, take their boat, go

1301
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 1: to Canada, which is not at all far away, pick

1302
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: up your guys, bring them back to the US, drop

1303
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 1: them off, and then ditch the boat. You know, that's it, Okay.

1304
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: So I have a number of problems with that, which is,

1305
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: where did they bump into Chuck and Lana to then

1306
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 1: decide that they were they were great marks for this situation,

1307
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean, the only point that they could have done that,

1308
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 1: and that this actually falls a little bit in line

1309
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 1: with the lead investigators theory, which the lead investigators theories

1310
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: that they met somebody at presqu Isle who was not

1311
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: a good person, a nefarious kind of guy, who left

1312
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 1: on their own boat and followed them and then did

1313
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 1: something you know, made her strip and then walk the

1314
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: plank or whatever whatever. Whatever. I mean that that is

1315
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 1: sort of in line with it. But I know you're

1316
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: thinking about the phone calls and the phone calls. The

1317
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 1: phone calls, let's just say, you know what, dismissed the

1318
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 1: phone calls. The phone calls happened before this person or

1319
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: Joe's Canadian pirates show up, and so all of that

1320
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: happens after the fact. But for what you're talking about,

1321
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:26,639
Speaker 1: if you were gonna leave a dock in Canada and

1322
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: go to a dock in the States, it's it's not

1323
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: like there's a bajillion customs points. I mean, there's a

1324
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: million places in a million boats you could do with.

1325
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: It just seems out amazing these guys fell into a

1326
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: terrorist trap. I also like the idea of Canadian pirates

1327
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 1: because they're just like, oh, hey, sorry to bother you, man. Uh,

1328
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna need your boat, man. Yeah. And they're like, no,

1329
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: you can't have it. Oh sorry, man, we gotta we

1330
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 1: were gonna need your vote. Hey, sorry man, here's your

1331
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 1: some Tim Horton's man, I'm sorry twice. Even Canadians can

1332
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: recognize that they are not good pirates. They know it's

1333
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: like Portlanders aren't good pirates, were too weird, like not,

1334
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: we're just too nice. Yeah, we wouldn't do that, Okay,

1335
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 1: So anyway, No, I think that's a stretch. I agree.

1336
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 1: I think I do think the fact that she is naked,

1337
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 1: but wearing her jewelry and her watch. It makes me

1338
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:35,799
Speaker 1: suspect that perhaps somebody of an affarious nature did somehow

1339
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: board their bows. And I guess it doesn't because we're

1340
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: they didn't sleep. They were spending the night, right, they

1341
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 1: had dinner and they left right, so they were they

1342
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 1: were on the lake at night, So it's not so

1343
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: weird to me. They disappeared in the daytime, did they? Yes,

1344
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: because it was two o'clock in the afternoon. Is the

1345
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 1: phone calls and they showed up at the dock to

1346
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: get on presque Ill to get gas at twelve thirty

1347
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, right, But the unaccounted time is until

1348
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 1: when the next morning? So we have overnight? Correct? So

1349
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,680
Speaker 1: they But why would they have not called anybody or

1350
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: use the radio if they the boat died? Well, maybe

1351
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: the boat didn't. I maybe they were fined for a while.

1352
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: I mean it took a nap. I don't know. I mean,

1353
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: you're you're you're saying that they moored up somewhere and

1354
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: then ended up sleeping that overnight, even though they had

1355
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 1: told everybody they were going to be there in two hours.

1356
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: Did they find her cell phone? I didn't have a

1357
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: charge I mean, frank questions I can't answer. No, I

1358
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 1: think they did find yourself, and I think it was

1359
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 1: on the boat. Well, did I have a charge? You know,

1360
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:51,760
Speaker 1: probably by the time they found it, and might still.

1361
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: But I mean, so that's part of it, right, is

1362
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 1: maybe you think, Okay, we ran into a little trouble.

1363
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:58,040
Speaker 1: We're just going to you know what, the storm. It's

1364
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: not good. We don't want to try and doc Or's

1365
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: just going to spend the night. Was very close with

1366
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 1: her family, so it is very out of character for

1367
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 1: her to have called her family and said I'll be

1368
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: there in two or three hours and then just not

1369
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 1: show and not contacted. But if her phone was dead,

1370
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: she had no way to contact them. It's not I mean,

1371
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 1: I've been a think called a charge here, and I'm

1372
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: sure I don't know. Listen, I mean things can go

1373
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: bad quick on the sea. Maybe they decided to have

1374
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 1: a quickie, okay. I mean she's on her boat with

1375
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. It's not so weird to me that she's naked. No, No,

1376
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: that I have a theory about why she's naked, but

1377
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: we're not there, okay, But it does to me mean

1378
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 1: something like the some ne'er dwell came on the ship

1379
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 1: and stripped her. I agree. I also agree with that.

1380
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that to me. So we've we've now

1381
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 1: addressed we've addressed the pirate theory. We've addressed the lead

1382
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: investigators theory that something happened somebody followed them from from

1383
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 1: presqu isle Um. The other thing that I want to

1384
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:10,639
Speaker 1: talk about is that this is a relatively similar to

1385
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: the Chucks and drunken fool and knocks her overboard. Is

1386
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:22,680
Speaker 1: that it's believed that she may have he may have

1387
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: gone over because he was a bumbling fool, not drunk,

1388
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:31,559
Speaker 1: but a classy guy and goes over and as she

1389
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 1: you know, she's throwing the p f d s at

1390
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 1: him and she can't get him to get him and

1391
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: she's thrown. So she throws the rope to him and

1392
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: he gets to the boat. Now why she doesn't drop

1393
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 1: the swim ladder, I don't know, but she doesn't, and

1394
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 1: instead reaches down to give him a hand, and as

1395
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,760
Speaker 1: she's trying to pull him onto the boat, he inadvertently

1396
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,719
Speaker 1: pulls her over. I mean, or it's the other way around.

1397
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,639
Speaker 1: It's he does all this while she's in the water.

1398
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: Or I mean, he goes over she grow some p

1399
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 1: FDS in it's not working. She goes, I'm a strong swimmer.

1400
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 1: I can save him, and she jumps in after him.

1401
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:13,080
Speaker 1: A strong swimmer too. Maybe he's floundering. I mean, you

1402
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: can be a strong swimmer and have one thing go wrong.

1403
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 1: It can happen. The thing that her family always points

1404
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: to to say that this can't be the case is again,

1405
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:27,760
Speaker 1: voter safety had been drilled into her for so long,

1406
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 1: and voter safety says, no matter how bad it is,

1407
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: the pilot doesn't get off the frigging boat, because as

1408
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 1: soon as you get off the boat, the boat is gone. Yeah,

1409
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 1: right now, voter safety is very important. But Steve, look

1410
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 1: me in the eye and tell me that if your

1411
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 1: wife was floundering overboard and the only option you thought

1412
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: to save her was to jump in after her, you'd

1413
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 1: be like, on the pilot, I gotta stay on the boat. Yeah,

1414
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: I got life insurance, a life insurance. I just mean,

1415
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, they're our reports, they're happy, they're in love,

1416
01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: they've been together for a couple of years. I would

1417
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:09,600
Speaker 1: jump in after my boyfriend, and I know about her safety. Well. Now,

1418
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: the thing about it is is that number one. There

1419
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,599
Speaker 1: was no there were no sypes of trauma. As I say,

1420
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:16,720
Speaker 1: if she fell overboard, there were no knocks on the

1421
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: head or in my theory, he fell o. I can

1422
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,640
Speaker 1: see that. Okay, so he fell overboard, he's drowning, but

1423
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 1: she still knows enough to to stop the boat and

1424
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 1: maybe head back towards him. Yeah. But but I see

1425
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. The problem I have with this

1426
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 1: is that I guess she should She could have panicked

1427
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,599
Speaker 1: and just dove overboard to rescue him. But you would

1428
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,640
Speaker 1: think she would have put the ladder down. Yeah, I

1429
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:43,400
Speaker 1: mean that's not that's exactly you would think. But again,

1430
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 1: I mean she says this all the time. That's like

1431
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:48,559
Speaker 1: that's thinking rationally. Well, yeah, she's a chick. I know,

1432
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: the person that you love, the person that you love,

1433
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 1: you're watching them drown. You're watching that person die. Yeah,

1434
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Yeah? Are you going

1435
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:02,480
Speaker 1: to be like bladder than you have a fast maneuverabal

1436
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: thing called the boat that you can turn around and

1437
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: get to him and chuck the rope at him and

1438
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 1: hook him with the rope and try and pull him up.

1439
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: Maybe she tried that. Maybe he was unconscious. Maybe he

1440
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 1: banged his head and he was like, you know, but

1441
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: still you would think that she would be rational enough

1442
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:24,000
Speaker 1: to you know, I literally don't the boat around close,

1443
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, put the ladder down and all that. Yeah,

1444
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: that's that's my problem. And okay, well let's just let's

1445
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 1: just say that she does. Okay, so part of this

1446
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 1: is that one of them, let's say it's him in

1447
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,639
Speaker 1: the water, he accidentally pulls her overboard. What I don't

1448
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:40,719
Speaker 1: get is why she wouldn't kick the swim ladder over

1449
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 1: as she's reaching down to pull him off. Well, no,

1450
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, trying to pull him up from

1451
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,720
Speaker 1: the well of the boat is acidinine. Anyway, why she

1452
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:50,800
Speaker 1: would kick the ladder down climb down to the swim

1453
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: platform is the really big boat you guys, you're like saying,

1454
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 1: it's like it's just like right there, she could just

1455
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,679
Speaker 1: reach her to go over into this boat. This boat

1456
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: has a two couches. Great, howes how long are they? Okay,

1457
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 1: it's probably the size of my couch, which is like

1458
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:12,679
Speaker 1: a six or seven foot couch. They're small couches with

1459
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,600
Speaker 1: seats on the ends. And then I mean, if you

1460
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 1: look at the schematics of these boats. Half of it

1461
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 1: is the well. So they're not big things. It's not

1462
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,680
Speaker 1: like she has to run a hundred yards. But I'm

1463
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,679
Speaker 1: also saying, you missed the thing and he's pulling you over.

1464
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 1: It's not like it's right there and you can. You

1465
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 1: have a couple of tries, but you you pull somebody

1466
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 1: back onto the boat at the lowest point of the boat,

1467
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: which is the swim platform. But so if you're in

1468
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: the swim platform, you knocked the ladder over, saying hey, dummy,

1469
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 1: climb up the swim ladder. But so what if he

1470
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 1: falls overboard and he grabs onto you for stability and

1471
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 1: you both go over. You can't just kick the ladder.

1472
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 1: But I don't I don't think that he could have

1473
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: reached her from the water from the well. E's we're

1474
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,800
Speaker 1: we're going down rabbit holeville. We have gone so far

1475
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole too, and they're so far off track.

1476
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 1: The bottom line is, is there there is There are

1477
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 1: a lot of ways that you can actually accidentally go

1478
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 1: overboard on a boat. Yeah, and it happens all the time.

1479
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah there ships. So let's let's move to a completely

1480
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 1: totally different theory. I like this one. Aliens not aliens.

1481
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:29,080
Speaker 1: The actual theory is that it is a angry client

1482
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 1: a K or angry defendant would be the right way

1483
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:37,160
Speaker 1: to put it. A K A. The mob in Detroit,

1484
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 1: Chuck was, he was a prosecutor, and so according to

1485
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:50,759
Speaker 1: some people, it's entirely possible that he was prosecuting somebody

1486
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 1: who didn't appreciate him prosecuting them. And they figured out

1487
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 1: where Chuck was and they followed he and unfortunately, because

1488
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 1: she was in the wrong place in the time Lata

1489
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 1: out onto the water, they figured out where their boat was,

1490
01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 1: they threw her over overboard after making after making and

1491
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: then took him to his his his torture party to him.

1492
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 1: Because we don't know what she did. She she worked

1493
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: for the City of Detroit doing lass. I don't believe

1494
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 1: that the City of Detroit prosecute a lot of people.

1495
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 1: But she's not working for the prosecutor's office who she

1496
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: working for. She's working for the city of Detroit. I

1497
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:38,679
Speaker 1: get the feeling that it was more of mundane stuff,

1498
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:43,120
Speaker 1: contracts and stuff like that. Yeah, okay, you can you

1499
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:46,160
Speaker 1: can argue that it's Laana's fault all you want. Devin

1500
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 1: and The point of the matter is somebody was mad

1501
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 1: at one. Got it is as I because it is

1502
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: hard enough to track somebody down on land, let it alone,

1503
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 1: when they out on the water speeding along in a boat.

1504
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:05,720
Speaker 1: There's a lot easier ways to find somebody. Yeah, and

1505
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 1: also like get a hold of them. Yeah, I mean

1506
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: this is frankly, if you know, if Chuck sees defendant

1507
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:15,719
Speaker 1: number five over there on a boat going Paul over,

1508
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 1: I gotta get on your ship. He's obviously not going

1509
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, okay, hey, I totally recognize that dude. Yeah,

1510
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 1: he's a good guy. I tried to send him away

1511
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 1: for five years. Let's let him on board and give

1512
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 1: him a shot of vanka. Yeah, I'm sure that doesn't work.

1513
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: So I really feel like that one doesn't have any

1514
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: any basis other than it sounds cool and convenient. The

1515
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 1: only one we have left is what I'm going to

1516
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 1: refer to as the Steve Special, and that's a rogue wave.

1517
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 1: So this theory, according to me, by the way, I

1518
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 1: made this up, because I'm combining a whole bunch of

1519
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:55,080
Speaker 1: stuff that's related to the case, is I'm looking and

1520
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,880
Speaker 1: this all comes from well, Laana is obviously had to

1521
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 1: have been naked before she went in the water. Let's

1522
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:07,759
Speaker 1: say that. I still I feel like she probably would

1523
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: not have been going commando. Um. I mean, at the

1524
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 1: least I would have expected she'd have some bathing suit on.

1525
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:17,639
Speaker 1: But so what I'm trying to do is I'm trying

1526
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 1: to explain why she's naked. And so what I'm thinking

1527
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 1: is that is, if it is crappy weather and they're

1528
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: hitting big Chop, she gets soaked by a wave. She

1529
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 1: whether they run through spray and she's had too much,

1530
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: or there's a row wave that hints her. She says, hey, Chuck,

1531
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 1: can you take the wheel. I'm gonna go down below.

1532
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change my clothes so I'm not freezing to death.

1533
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 1: He's like, sure, no problem, hunting whatever. Something else happens,

1534
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,280
Speaker 1: either she hears chucking distress, or the boat's going all

1535
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: wonky and she realizes nobody's at the pilot or at

1536
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:52,800
Speaker 1: the pilot's wheel. Of course, when an emergency happens and

1537
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 1: your neked, what do you do. You don't stop to

1538
01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: put your clothes on. You go to take care of

1539
01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 1: the emergency. It's why your mom told you to always

1540
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: make sure you're wearing clean underwear in case you go

1541
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: to the hospital, because you never know when that's going

1542
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: to happen. The point is whatever then happens happens from there.

1543
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 1: But that's the only way that I can I can

1544
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: justify or or make sense of why she would have

1545
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: been naked before she went in the water, is that

1546
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,240
Speaker 1: she had to have had a good reason to take

1547
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 1: her clothes off in the first place. And when you're

1548
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,960
Speaker 1: on a boat and he gets soaked and it's freaking cold,

1549
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 1: you change into dry clothes. That's that's the only thing

1550
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: that I can come up with, no matter how much

1551
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: you two try to tell me she was going commando proposal.

1552
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 1: She says, Hey, babe, I just got soaked, take the wheel.

1553
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 1: I gotta go change. He says, that's an invitation, if

1554
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 1: I ever heard right. She goes down, gets naked. He

1555
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:57,880
Speaker 1: wanders down and it's like, hey, babe, what's up? And

1556
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,760
Speaker 1: she's like, why are you doing? Somebody tells to be

1557
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 1: driving the ship. She runs up to try to drive

1558
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 1: the ship and just overboard, and he's just drunk, and

1559
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,679
Speaker 1: he goes overboard, and you know the rest of history.

1560
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 1: It's it's the only problem I have with that. It's

1561
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: an invitation if I ever heard one, it is the

1562
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: It is an invitation, for sure, but nothing invitation. Let's

1563
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,559
Speaker 1: be clear about that. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah that's right.

1564
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:27,479
Speaker 1: Let's be correct here. If she had really totally gotten drenched,

1565
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 1: the first thing that would have come off was her

1566
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,759
Speaker 1: watch because she would have wanted to drive that off. Yeah,

1567
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:36,120
Speaker 1: damn complaints. So yeah, so I'm not totally sure that

1568
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 1: I buy into that or not. I still like the

1569
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:40,960
Speaker 1: Christian pirates who made her strip before she walked the plank,

1570
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:44,759
Speaker 1: because that makes sense. Yeah, it totally does. I still

1571
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,559
Speaker 1: like the cigarette smuggling Canadians, but I still like the

1572
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 1: academic connection, although even that's not quite believable. Yeah, people

1573
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 1: just screw up and fall overboard. This story is that

1574
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: people screw up and fall overboard all the time. But

1575
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,720
Speaker 1: when it's two of them, one of whom is reported

1576
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: to have been so competent and so aware of how

1577
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: things should be done, it really makes me question every theory.

1578
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:16,639
Speaker 1: I mean, we've gone through a lot of theories. Well,

1579
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: let's talking about an hour about theories. I mean, it's

1580
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:22,439
Speaker 1: hard for me because that assumes that Chuck is the

1581
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: one who went overboard. It is, you know, because every

1582
01:29:25,240 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: time we say yeah, but she really knew what she

1583
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: was doing, was like, yeah, but accidents happen, you know.

1584
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 1: And if she was the one who went overboard, he

1585
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: may have you know, been a little trained, but he

1586
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 1: obviously didn't have the indoctrination. He didn't grow up around it.

1587
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 1: And you know, again, I know I referenced this all

1588
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:44,559
Speaker 1: the time every talk we every time we talk about

1589
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 1: bowl mysteries and stuff like that, you can talk about

1590
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,160
Speaker 1: cruise ship well a little bit. I mean that's there

1591
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 1: are a lot of mysteries that I don't really want

1592
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 1: to cover because I think that person just went overboard

1593
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 1: and their cruise ship related and people are always like, oh, no, no,

1594
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 1: that person couldn't possibly have gone overboard, and it no, No,

1595
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: people go overboard all the time. And I know that

1596
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:06,519
Speaker 1: sounds really insensitive. I know that sounds horrible, but it

1597
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 1: is true. That's why these things on sailboats and boats

1598
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 1: and stuff that are called safety straps. So when you're

1599
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:17,000
Speaker 1: on deck, you've got this strap on you so you

1600
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:20,599
Speaker 1: won't follow over Yeah. Yeah, if you do go overboard,

1601
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 1: at least you've got this rope to help yourself, like

1602
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,840
Speaker 1: stay attached to your boat and maybe get back on board. Yeah,

1603
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 1: that was one of the That was one of the

1604
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 1: things that was always dan until we got into the

1605
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:35,320
Speaker 1: moderns motor power boat age, is that sailors used to

1606
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 1: get washed over in storms all the time. I mean

1607
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: that just it just happens. And I know that sounds awful,

1608
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 1: and I know that it's hard to accept because it's

1609
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 1: I guess it's easier somehow to think, well, I got

1610
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 1: abducted or like he murdered her. But the fact of

1611
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 1: the matter is people go overboard, and then people make

1612
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 1: bad decisions to get their loved ones back, and there

1613
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:57,040
Speaker 1: it just happens. Yeah. There is a popular theory I

1614
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: hear about this one is that Check murdered her, whether

1615
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:03,639
Speaker 1: actually doubtly or not, and that he actually survived and

1616
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:08,920
Speaker 1: he's actually living under a false identity somewhere. Well it is.

1617
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: It is a little silly about the supporting evidence is this.

1618
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not I'm not saying this is true

1619
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:17,120
Speaker 1: because I doubt it very very much. But supporting evidence

1620
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 1: is that his family was not all that excited about

1621
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: going out and searching for him, unlike her family and

1622
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 1: like Bona's family, and they were a little too a

1623
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 1: little too quick to get him declared legally dead. So

1624
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:30,599
Speaker 1: let me address that. And and you know, again I'm

1625
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 1: not buying this theory. So I'll actually address the thing

1626
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 1: that happened that has drawn a little bit of internet

1627
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: scorn against his family is that what comes out is

1628
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:46,320
Speaker 1: that somebody came to his family and said, hey, I've

1629
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 1: got a helicopter, I'll go search for yourself. I'll let

1630
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 1: you use it to go search for your son, and

1631
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:54,799
Speaker 1: all you have to do is pay for the cost

1632
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:59,599
Speaker 1: of fuel, which was how much, Well, helicopter fuel isn't cheap.

1633
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 1: It's more than it costs for gallan to put it

1634
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:06,760
Speaker 1: in your car. I know that. And that that is

1635
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:11,600
Speaker 1: I can understand why his family is like, uh, I

1636
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:16,919
Speaker 1: don't think I can pay for that. And that always,

1637
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, people always say, well, obviously they're hiding something

1638
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:22,320
Speaker 1: because they didn't they didn't want to just pour everything

1639
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 1: they had into this. Certain you know, aviation fuel is

1640
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:29,680
Speaker 1: not cheap more than that. I mean, not only do

1641
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:31,680
Speaker 1: you think it's the cost of the helicopter. I mean,

1642
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,400
Speaker 1: it's just I mean, they may just be very pragmatic

1643
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 1: or they may be very private and they just don't

1644
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:39,600
Speaker 1: want to be out in the limelight. They might be

1645
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 1: afraid of heights. I mean, I don't know, but well,

1646
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:44,360
Speaker 1: I'm just yeah, I get where you're going with that,

1647
01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:46,360
Speaker 1: But I just mean they may not want to just

1648
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 1: be out on the boat. They just want to stay

1649
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 1: together and see what happens and let the professionals to

1650
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 1: their job. That there's that. And also I don't know

1651
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 1: exactly when this person what the chopper approached them, and

1652
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 1: if that was like a week or two after you know,

1653
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean, do you know when it was. I think

1654
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:08,680
Speaker 1: it was within a week or within the week it

1655
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 1: might have been. I mean generally speaking as somebody, coast

1656
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: guard was already searching in helicopters. Yeah, they were already

1657
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: searching a lot. Yeah, and you know, if a week

1658
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: has gone by or even several days has gone by

1659
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 1: and there's no sign of them, it's like, well, kind

1660
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: of you know, it's a little too late. Yeah, I

1661
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 1: kind to stick a fork in it. Really hate to

1662
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,639
Speaker 1: say it, but yeah. Yeah, So I personally, I don't

1663
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: I don't have a preferred theory on this one because

1664
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: I feel like it could be a bazillion different things.

1665
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,559
Speaker 1: I like to kill a rabbit theory. I think my

1666
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 1: preferred theory is, you know, as jaded and awful as

1667
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:45,720
Speaker 1: it sounds, as some sort of accident, I don't think

1668
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:47,679
Speaker 1: there was an intention either way. I think they both

1669
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 1: went over and it's just what happened happened. What happened

1670
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:55,000
Speaker 1: happened pretty much, I think so too. What about foul play?

1671
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: Let me pay? Yeah, okay, okay, Well, if you want

1672
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:04,280
Speaker 1: to see any of the links that we have available

1673
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 1: for the research that we did, we will put up

1674
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 1: some of that on the website, of course, as we

1675
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 1: always do. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

1676
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 1: We are available in a lot of different places. You

1677
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:20,360
Speaker 1: can of course stream or download from the website itself.

1678
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,800
Speaker 1: We're on iTunes, so if you use iTunes, do take

1679
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: the time to subscribe, leave us a rating and review

1680
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: positive preferably. But if you've got issues, please something that's

1681
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 1: bothering you. Putting in a forum where we can have

1682
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:37,000
Speaker 1: a conversation, because you can't have a conversation in a

1683
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 1: comment on iTunes, say it's an email. But we're available

1684
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:45,080
Speaker 1: on most of the streaming services. Uh, you know the

1685
01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: one that comes to mind at the moment is Google Play,

1686
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 1: because that's where we're getting a whole bunch of new

1687
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:53,320
Speaker 1: listeners from. Yeah. Absolutely. What about the Twitter? Are we

1688
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:56,040
Speaker 1: on the Twitter? We are on the Twitter. We're thinking

1689
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:59,080
Speaker 1: Sideways without the G in the middle. Devon is quite

1690
01:34:59,080 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 1: busy on that right now. We we guys don't know this,

1691
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,080
Speaker 1: but she's constantly on our phone and we are. We

1692
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:10,120
Speaker 1: are on Facebook. We have the Facebook page and the

1693
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 1: Facebook group, so we're always busy on that. There's a

1694
01:35:13,240 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: lot of activity there, which is a lot of fun.

1695
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:20,160
Speaker 1: We have a subreddit which is our forward slash Thinking Sideways.

1696
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:23,679
Speaker 1: Is it for less thank you sideways? Okay, we're gonna

1697
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:29,320
Speaker 1: take the use ours, so it's just thinking Sideways. We do,

1698
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:31,760
Speaker 1: as we said, have the email address. If you've got

1699
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:36,680
Speaker 1: concerns or feedback, or you've got questions or suggestions, or

1700
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 1: just generally want to talk with us, send us an email.

1701
01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 1: That is Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. We

1702
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 1: get a lot of emails and we will respond to

1703
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: every single one of them, but it might take us

1704
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:49,960
Speaker 1: a couple of days. Sometimes it gets a little busy.

1705
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 1: We're all a little busy at work these days, so

1706
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,360
Speaker 1: it's when you can find time. We do. We do,

1707
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:59,680
Speaker 1: we always do. Uh and uh, if you want to

1708
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: worth the show, we would appreciate that, but it is

1709
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 1: by no means a requirement. We do appreciate everybody who

1710
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 1: has contributed to the show. There's a number of ways

1711
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:11,880
Speaker 1: to do that. We've got merchandise available. Uh, there's a

1712
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:16,960
Speaker 1: link for that on the website for t shirts, phone cases, mugs, stickers,

1713
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,160
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. If you're into that, it's

1714
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 1: all there. If you want to make a donation to

1715
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:24,360
Speaker 1: the show, you can do that in two forms. You

1716
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:27,880
Speaker 1: can go and use PayPal to make a one time donation,

1717
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 1: or if you want to make a ongoing contribution, you

1718
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 1: can do that via Patreon. Patreon is a reoccurring basis.

1719
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:40,720
Speaker 1: It's based on every episode you say how much you

1720
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 1: wanted to give per and every time we put an episode,

1721
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 1: that's what you're gonna get charged for. And by the way,

1722
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:48,920
Speaker 1: if we throw up a short or something like that,

1723
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 1: we don't. Oh no, not everything is. You know, we

1724
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:53,280
Speaker 1: put up interviews and stuff like that. We never charged

1725
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:55,680
Speaker 1: for that kind of stuff. But be aware it is

1726
01:36:55,720 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 1: an ongoing basis. Uh. That is the only the other thing.

1727
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 1: There's nothing else that I can think of that we

1728
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,479
Speaker 1: need to do at this point. The basis so I

1729
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 1: think we're gonna float out of here. So if you

1730
01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 1: are Chuck, give us a call or send us an email,

1731
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 1: or if you are a Canadian cigarette smuggling pirate, I'd

1732
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: like to talk to you. Or if you're the Chata

1733
01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: guy that's responsible for all this, I want to talk

1734
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:20,759
Speaker 1: to you too. Laura,