WEBVTT - Ian Anderson 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.480 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob west Said's podcasts. My 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.759 guest into two legendary one of the time, the one 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:21.720 and only and Anderson of Jeff Wild Tom Ian so 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.119 glad to have you on the podcast Big Fear. Well, 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.240 it's just a pleasure to be here. And thank goodness, 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.440 there is only one of me, the one and only. 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.239 Imagine imagine that there were two of me. I mean, 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.440 people will be recoiling in horror at that screeching flute 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.160 permeating every fabric of their being. It would be even 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.040 worse than it already is. I frankly, have always discovered 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.200 that the audiences are seduced during a live performance into 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.760 thinking I quite like the flute, But in reality it's 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:52.720 a horrible, horrible noise, and it's okay for a few minutes, 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.680 but for two hours, goodness me, I'm surprised they actually 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.120 remain in the in the venue. I have my cats 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.680 like the flute. My dogs run a mile, my wife 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.000 runs a mile, and and and she's an elderly lady. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.640 But you know James Galway, he says that he has 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.800 played with you. He's a big flutist. Well you know, 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.360 he's um he's a big flattist, but he's a he's 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.120 a damned liar. We've we never played together. We were 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.440 supposed to play together in a concert somewhere in the USA, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.880 and he was he was performing at the same place 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.200 the night after we were on and so we met 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.760 up and I sent him some music. We're gonna was 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:35.959 gonna come up on stage and we're going to play together. 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.399 And you know, I'd like to think I like to 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.039 think he would have done it if it wasn't for 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.399 the fact that he was a bit exhausted and jet 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:48.120 lagged and and probably a bit overwhelmed with the idea 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.360 of being on a stage with noisy people, and it 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.120 was out of his comfort zone. So I think, frankly 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.639 he chickened out. But we we've always talked about doing 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.760 something together, and on the one and only occasion when 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.720 we could have done um, he he checking out. He 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:06.520 just didn't show up for sound checks. So it was 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.840 a bit embarrassing. But anyway, I mean, I'm in touch 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.280 with James from time to time, elderly gentleman and in 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.160 the twilight years, just just a little bit ahead of me, 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:22.399 but not too much. But one of his proteges. Andrea Grimanelli, 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:28.840 who James was was a tutor to m he he 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.760 and I have played together many times, and in fact 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:36.480 we played played together in the Vatican Christmas concert just 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:41.920 before Christmas, played with with Andrea Grimanelli. And he's a 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:48.960 brilliant soloist, classical flute player and very nice and gentlemanly 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:53.640 guy who who's a huge as a huge relationship, great 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:58.160 fan of James Goldway, and we we we often chat 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.519 about it and our mutual experience. But that's classical music. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.760 That's not what I do. I am just the I 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.880 am just the class cloud who sits at the back 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:12.120 and makes rude noises. Well, without being too self deprecating, 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.400 how do you read your flute playing? Well, the thing 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.480 is that you know, I began as a guitar player, 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.959 not as a flute player. So I was as a teenager, 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:22.680 you know, struggling to try and learn to play a 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.120 few notes of essentially what we're blues improvisation. And then 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.880 when I was some nineteen maybe eighteen or nineteen, I 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.640 heard Eric Clapton. It just joined John Male's Blues Breakers, 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.720 and that famous album cover where it Clapton is reading 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.800 a children's comic called The Beano. And when I heard 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.360 Eric Clapton, I thought, oh, this is um. This is 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.680 an object lesson in in um finding something else to 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.320 play as a musical instrument. So I said about finding 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:59.040 an alternative, and I traded in my trustee Fender strat 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.280 for a you know, it was probably worth today. I 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.560 mean the sixties strap that belonged to Lemmy, Lemmy of Motorhead. 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.280 It was the previous owner when he was a rhythm 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:14.080 guitarist and Reverend Black and the Rocking Vicars rock band. 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.880 How did you get the strap from Lemmy? Well, I 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:21.119 he was broke, so he had to sell it and 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:24.840 I took on the the debt, if you like. And 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.160 so I I got this this instrument, played it for 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.919 a year so and and then traded it in for 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.239 a thirty dollar flute. It was a basic student model 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.760 flute and seemed because that guitar today probably you know, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.719 being a real genuine vintage sixties strap to a Japanese 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:49.400 collector would probably worth a thirty grand, forty grand maybe 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.240 if you add in the fact that it used to 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.719 belong to me, and before that it belonged to Lemmy. 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.000 So it doesn't seem like a very good deal, you know, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:00.440 to part with that and then take on a thirty 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.720 dollar flute by way of exchange. But I think it's 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.280 probably one of the best business investments I could possibly 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.640 have made as it turned down. But of all the instruments, 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:17.400 the keyboards, the sacks, the drums, why the flute, Well, 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.200 there was no sensible reason whatsoever. I went went to 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.680 trade in my guitar and I looked around on the 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:28.040 walls of the music store and the sun. It had 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.400 been raining. It was a dreary day, I remember, in 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.360 in a place called Litham in Lancashire in the north 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:38.360 of England, and suddenly the sun came out and shone 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.680 through the window of the music store and glistened on 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.279 the on something that was hanging on the wall, which 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:49.599 was a flute, and it just beckoned. It just said 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.520 by me. And I had no idea how to play 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:57.400 a flute. It just seemed like a nice, shiny, well engineered, 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:02.000 rather attractive object. And I have a soft spot for 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:08.680 things that are a good engineering in a well designed, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.960 well developed and I just thought this looked like it 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:16.120 was a sort of musical Swiss watch. Really, so I said, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.680 I'll have that with no idea how to play it, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.479 and I worked walked out with the flute, which for 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.839 the next few months I couldn't get a note out of. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.159 And somebody finally told me it's like blowing across the 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.920 top of a Coca cola bottle, you know, you blow 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:35.000 at the right angle, it makes a makes a musical note. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.160 And that finally dawned on me as I got the flute, 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:43.480 I think in August of nine seven, and somewhere in 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.680 mid December I actually managed to get a note out 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.479 of this flute. It was a note of G, and 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.760 then I found a note of E, and then A 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.160 and B, and then I had the blue scale. So 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.240 by the beginning of January, when Jethro actually became Jethrotel, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.479 I was able to play not only just to play 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.279 a little bit of flute, but to play improvised blue 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.720 solos because I just translated what I thought I knew 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.400 from guitar playing into into the flute well, even though 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.000 I didn't know the proper fingering, and I was just 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:21.520 you know, making loud noises to try and equal the 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.400 impact of the electric guitar in the band. But it worked. 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.280 Out pretty well. I think I I think I probably 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.120 buy February March, people were beginning to talk about Jeth 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.280 Hotel not just as another blues band, but a blues 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.200 band with a guy who played the flute standing on 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.760 one leg, which seemed to catch on in a way 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:43.960 with the media and as a as a kind of 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.360 an image as a logo. From that day onwards. We 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:52.239 were a little different to Savoy Brown and Chicken Shack 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.760 and Fleetwood mac And and the other blues bands of 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.040 that era that also played at the famous Marquee Club 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.160 in London. Okay, all over the web it says that 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.880 your daughter picked up the flute and then you ultimately 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.520 learned you were using the long wrong fingering and how 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.480 to re learn it. Is that apocryphal or is that 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.120 a real story. That's a real story. She she asked 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.080 me when she was at school. I guess she was 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.600 about eight years old or something, and said, oh, we 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.560 we we've got to learn to play a musical instrument, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.560 you know, kind of is just something that you've got 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.160 that I could borrow too to play. And I said, well, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.920 you know, I've got drum kids, I've got saxophones, I've 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.959 got a whole bunch of stuff, but you know, maybe 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:38.560 the flute is the easiest one. And so I gave 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.840 her a flute, one of my old stage flutes, and 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.960 I made sure that it kind of played okay, and 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.160 she took it to school, and she came back and 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:51.520 had some little book, you know, how to Play the Flute, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:57.079 Chapter one, and it was it was a musical notation, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.280 which means nothing to me. But she was playing through 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.640 a few notes and I ventured to say, look, actually, 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.840 when you're playing this note and you do it like this, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.440 and she and she looked at where my fingers were 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.920 on the instrument, said was that that's not what it 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.200 says in the book, Daddy, That's not what you're supposed 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.880 to put your little finger on the right hand. So 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.440 I said, rubbish, But of course she was right. It 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.040 was I'd been all that time. That's just somewhere around 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:30.440 about nineteen eighty nine or something. I've been doing it 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.160 wrongly for all that time. And it was a bit embarrassing. 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:41.080 But I then actually went off to to Bombay Mumbai, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:43.680 although it was still Bombay at that time, and it 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.480 was the day after the India bombings, and Mumbai and 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.839 I arrived to do a preordained press conference before we 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.920 knew about the terrorist attack. So I was about the 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:58.400 only foreigner in town. Everybody had fled and so I 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:04.320 had the entire press and media of of of Mumbai 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.920 came to my press conference because they had nothing else 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.480 to do. There's nobody else to talk to, and as 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.040 a result, we we we chatted about various things, and 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.360 when I was back in my hotel room, oddly there 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.480 was a fax machine because my hotel was right next 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.520 to the one that got blown up, and there's a 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.720 fax machine in my room. And I thought, I'll I'll 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.440 phone one of the music stores in London and see 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.440 if they can fax over to me a flute fingering 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.560 chart to show me all the fingering positions for the 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:41.000 different notes, which they did, and I looked with horror 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.120 at the end. Resultant thought, that is going to be, 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.800 you know, very very difficult for me to relearn at 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.240 this point in my life, in almost twenty years after 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.400 I first played the flute, and to begin with, I 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.319 was so daunted by it. I thought, oh no, I'll 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.960 just stick with what I've got, But it kept luring 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.320 me back in with the idea that I should try 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.760 and do it properly. And so it took me about 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.880 six months really to incorporate the correct fingering into my 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.040 performances on stage, because of course I got set in 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.160 my ways and took a while to make the adjustment. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.720 But it was worthwhile because they then gave me the 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:26.200 the scope to play at a more controllable different volume 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.480 levels and and and somewhat more in tune than I 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.079 had been, so it worked out pretty well. And then 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.680 I moved from playing closed whole flutes where all the 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.640 keys are covered, which is kind of easy for beginners, 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.920 playing open, open whole flutes, which allow you to kind 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.200 of slur notes and bend notes a little bit like 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.319 playing a blues guitar. And I made all that transition 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:55.560 really in nine nine, I guess, and and I never 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.520 looked back except to wonder why on earth I hadn't 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.800 learned to play it properly in the first place. Okay, 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.319 you mentioned you gave your daughter a road flute from 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.360 the stage. What would be the difference between a road 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.600 flute and a flute you keep at home and using 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:15.439 the studio monetary value? Basically, because you know, when you're 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.920 traveling around the world, and you're apart from the fact 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.000 that you're your flutes are going to be subject to 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.000 a certain amount of wear and tear, it's also that 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.320 you know you have to leave them in hotel rooms, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.520 and or if you decide you don't want to leave 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.520 in a hotel room, you've got to put it around 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.360 your neck and go up into the depths of some 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:38.120 darkened Eastern European town, taking your life and your flute 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.000 in your hands, in order to try and find a 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.520 good takeaway curry or you know, or an empty restaurant 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.079 to eat in and and and get mugged along the way. 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.400 So it's it's a little nerve racking. So I've never 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:54.720 traveled with flutes of any huge value. I always tend 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.320 to I mean, they're kind of intermediate flutes, but frankly 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.960 not worth mugging me for. If you're gonna mug me, 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.400 take my watch, leave the flute. That's my advice. Now, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.040 with most musical equipment and sports equipment, people who at 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.560 the elite level, there's a difference, like a pair of 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.120 skis or a guitar. This is my favorite. Do you 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.480 have a favorite flute where they all pretty much sound 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.720 the same? Well, going back to James Galway, it's an 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.000 interesting you know, he did a survey. I mean he 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:26.800 had lots and lots of flutes. I mean I know 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.400 because I've seen them. You've showed me the the cover 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:32.480 that contains all of his flutes, and I mean there 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:37.160 must have been twenty different flutes in there. And he 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:38.960 he did a sort of test to try and play 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.080 them all one after the other, playing exactly the same 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.960 piece of quite complex classical music. And I think he 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:50.040 amply demonstrated that there was so little difference in the 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.560 tonal quality of all of these flutes, you know, arranging 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:58.000 from basically an advanced student model flute to you know, 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:04.040 eighteen carrot gold flute that was probably costing, and there 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:07.160 was a little difference in it. And I actually replicated 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.600 exactly the same thing just a few weeks ago, when 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.520 I knowing that I was starting work on a new 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.079 album with a lot of flute involved in it, that 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:17.800 I did the same thing. I played a few flutes 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.800 one after the other on the same audio file and 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.640 listen to them back, and you know, you could detect 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:29.000 a tiny little difference, but it was much less than 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.800 it appeared to me when I play the flute, you 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.560 know you because you reson It resonates in your skull 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.760 as well as the sound of the instrument from the 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.560 ambushure whole and the sound that comes out of the 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.320 open tone hurls of the flute. It sounds more different 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:53.040 to you, but to a high quality microphone sitting you know, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.840 thirty centimeters roughly one ft for you guys away from 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:02.840 your your flute. It's all my undetectable the difference. And 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.080 in fact, I was recording something for somebody else. It 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:09.240 was doing performing a guest thing for some other artists, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.760 and I used I used two different flutes to to 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.000 to play so that the flute part that was my 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.840 contribution to his record. And when it came to it, 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.760 I realized there was absolutely no difference detectable between when 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.520 I've been playing one flute as opposed to you know, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.160 thirty seconds later I switched to using the other flute. 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.800 Do you really couldn't tell? So I don't think there's 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.240 any great difference when it comes to what you take 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.000 on the road to play and what you might play 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.200 because you just like the feel of it or that 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:45.280 very subtle nuance that makes one flute different to another. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.080 And I think the same thing obtains really for guitars, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.840 which is why I've been utterly amazed and and perhaps 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.960 a little irreverent in my response to people like my 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:02.080 pile Joe Bonna Messa, who I remember going backstage and 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.080 seeing it about twenty guitars backstage to play a concert 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.400 at Hammersmith Odeon in London, and I said, what the 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.680 hell are all these guitarist for Joe? I mean, what's 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.480 it about. I mean, you just need one, you know, 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.240 you sound great? Well, why do you need all these guitars? Well, 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.640 I'm not sure. I might decided to play a different 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.640 one that night, or in the song I want to 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.200 play that one, or whatever. And and I found it. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.120 It was quite amusing, you know. But I had to 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.400 take the mickey out of him because he was like 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.920 many guitarists. You know, it's a mark of how how 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.400 great your statue is in the firmament of guitar players, 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.160 as to how many guitars you take on tour, and 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.880 how many guitar roads you have to employ to change 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.520 the strings and tune them up for you, which is 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.760 the antithesis of life in Jeth Hotel guitar players take 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.520 one guitar and they change their own strings, and they 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.960 tune them up by themselves, and nobody is allowed to 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.880 touch them because your precious instrument. The last thing you 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.600 want to do is give it to some roadie to 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.080 handle and smear his bodily juices over the strings when 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:10.840 he's probably not watched his hands when he's been to 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:15.440 the toilet. So nobody touches my flute, nobody touches my guitar, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:17.600 And the rest of the guys in the band are 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.280 exactly the same, you know, we we are. Our instruments 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.800 are the tools of our trade. I say, you know, 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.440 if you if you were a cop and you had 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.280 a you know, nine millimeter glocks glock strapped to your 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.080 your your your your your, your waist, and you know, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.439 would you allow somebody else to clean it, to load it, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.240 to check it and make sure it was ready to 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.160 roll when it's a matter of life and death potentially 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.600 that that thing is going to work for you if 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:45.840 you should need it. And I think it's the same 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.280 thing with musical instruments. You you should take on the 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.040 responsibility of looking after them yourself, because it is life 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:54.760 and death out there. If you pick it up and 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.600 it doesn't it's out a tune, or it string breaks 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.720 or something. It's um, you are going to die a 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.600 horrible death on stage in front of thousands of people 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.440 and looked like a complete turkey. Okay, So how does 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.200 Ian Ianerson know Joe Bonamassa. I mean, I know Joe 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.240 and he's very open, friendly guy. But you have a 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:19.720 reputation as being somewhat outside. But in reality, do you 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.320 know and connect with a lot of musicians or was 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.800 there a unique story with Bonna Massa? What's your relationship 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.840 with other musicians? Well, I I do connect in the 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.600 sense of there are a number of people that I've 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.160 met and I've known some of whom I played with, 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:41.440 but it's probably less than twenty in fifty something years. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.480 I know Joe because our agent um said as a 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.080 suggestion for an opening act, and I was just young 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.880 kid who's um a bit of a whiz kid making 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.679 a name for himself, and you know, could he come 0:18:54.680 --> 0:19:00.960 and do some shows with Jethro Hotel and an added apprehensively, uh, 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.080 and he actually plays one of your songs during his set. 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.760 He's a bit of a Jet Hotel fan. So I said, yeah, well, okay, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.480 and I think I must have checked out some something 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.639 on long before YouTube, but it probably found something to 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.320 listen to. And he seemed he reminded me a little 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.000 bit of Rory Gallagher in the early days, because he 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.879 was that kind of a shouty singer rather than a 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:27.680 melodic singer, full of energy, full of youthful vigor. Great 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.199 description of Rory Gallagher, Yeah and well, and and of 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.359 the young Joe Bonamassa. But you know, he did some 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.760 shows with us, and he was such a nice, gentlemanly, quiet, 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.800 really easy going guy. And you know, a couple of 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.800 guys in this band they were they were okay, and 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.359 so it was an easy and easy, you know, a 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.240 good mix in terms of somebody to work with for 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.679 a few days on tour, and over the years, I 0:19:54.720 --> 0:20:00.000 suppose we just kept in touch. But the mature um 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.280 Joe Bonna Massa is someone who I think has evolved 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:09.080 beyond the shouty blues. Now he's a much better singer 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.280 and a much better guitar player. He has the melodic 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:16.520 and the restraint that perhaps you would associate it with 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:21.240 with the Eric Clapton um. To begin with, he sounded 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.199 you know, it was just a little bit too How 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.680 many notes can you cram into a bar and sounds? 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.040 You know? Um, But if you're an opening out, you've 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.560 got to do that. You've got, you know, thirty five 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.560 minutes to struct your stuff and make a name for yourself. 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.399 You you've really got to turn on the turn on 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.840 the taps. But you know, once you've become a headline act, 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:46.359 you can afford to demonstrate a little taste and restraint 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.080 and try and try and make every note count, and 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:54.720 make the gap between the notes count, because that's the 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.040 thing that Eric Clapton always had, you know, he knew 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.639 the value of the space between the notes. It's like 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.040 dramatic clouds in the sky, but you see between the 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.919 clouds a little touch of infinite blue, and it's the 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.560 space between the clouds, just as the space between the 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.440 notes and the guitar. So that give it its shape, 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.960 its form. It's drama, it's dynamic range. And I think 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.879 that's something Joe's and and and once he grew up 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.720 a little bit, that's what he learned to do. Me, 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.040 on the other hand, I'm still stuck in the old days. 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.199 I just crammed as many notes as I can in Okay. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.480 You happen to drop curries in there earlier of all 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.000 the big Jethro Tolfi and I was catching up on 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.600 you make sure I didn't forget anything, and it said 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:42.280 you're a big Indian food expert. Now in America, I 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.479 remember the Ramones talking about vindaloo. I didn't even know 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:47.840 what it was. There are a lot of Indian restaurants 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.239 in America today, but nothing like the curry shops in 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:55.320 the UK. So give us a primer on Indian food. 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.520 People who are un knowledgeable, what should they know about 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.520 Indian food? Well, what they shouldn't know about it is 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:06.400 that I mean apart from the connection obviously the primary 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:11.359 connection between Britain as a as a as a nation 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:16.200 who strutted its stuff across the globe and swept people 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:21.480 into its um, it's orbit and made such a huge difference, 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.760 some of it bad, some of it good. We inherited 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:27.399 Indian food going back into the eight hundreds when the 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:33.240 very first Indian restaurant opened up in London and it 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:38.920 really made its mark. After partition in India seven the 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:43.240 year of my birth, when the Hindus and Muslims were 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.840 split up when Pakistan was split up into Pakistan as 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:52.360 we know it today and Bangladesh which was which was 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.919 was East Pakistan back then, and so many Indians and 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:02.639 bangladesh he's and Pakistani's fled the country during the very 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.800 unpleasant times after the partition and they came, many of 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:11.480 them to the UK and set up Pakistani restaurants, Bangladeshi 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.679 restaurants and Indian restaurants. And this was really throughout the 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.800 fifties and sixties. So when I grew up at the 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:20.919 age when I was beginning to play music and travel 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:29.719 outside my hometown, then Indian food became. It became what 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.200 you you you you aspired to as a good night 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.240 out if you were whether it was on your way 0:23:34.240 --> 0:23:37.679 back from some some gigs somewhere in the north of 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:40.160 England and there was some late night Indian restaurant open. 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:42.119 I mean that that you made a bee line for it, 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:46.359 because we all had a taste for spicy food Chinese. 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.440 I suppose it was the first thing that we knew 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:53.159 about in terms of more exotic cuisine, but Indian that 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:55.960 nailed it for most of us. So I guess it 0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:01.600 would be very hard to find many British music then 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:07.320 and now who A didn't like Indian food and b 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.399 hadn't been to art school, So that those two things 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:15.439 somehow seemed to define what is about British musicians that 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:19.320 maybe marks us out from the rest of Europe and 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:22.480 most of the USA. You know, we're all nuts about 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:25.520 a good king prawne Vinderloo and we all we all 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:30.480 went to art college to study the creative side of 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:35.000 of life that then translated into music. So if someone 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:39.000 is going to an Indian restaurant, tell them hot at order, 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:42.000 Well that that happens to me from time to time 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:44.400 that somebody says, well I'm not sure what I should 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:46.480 what I should eat, So it's just you just asked 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.600 them a few simple questions. Well do you like do 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:54.399 you like food that has a wet source or do 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:57.480 you like something that is dry and not not not 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:00.479 not wet. Do you like something that is kind of 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:02.919 spicy like that a lot of spicy flavor is not 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:07.520 necessarily hot, but just the spices. Or do you like 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:11.320 something that is relatively bland? And do you like something 0:25:11.359 --> 0:25:14.320 that is spicy as in hot or do you want 0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:18.119 something that's really mild? And and you eat meat, do 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:21.360 you eat chicken, Do you eat fish, do you eat shellfish, 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.360 do you eat beef? To eat lamb? Or do you 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:28.560 are you vegetarian? And with a benefit of that, you 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:32.680 can perhaps direct somebody to something that hopefully is going 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:37.080 to be along the lines that that that might satisfy them. 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.920 And for people who are perhaps not really sure that 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:45.320 I would recommend something, I mean, assuming you eat chicken, 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:49.000 I would say, go for a chicken corner. It's a mild, creamy, 0:25:49.200 --> 0:25:54.639 yogurt based sauce with the chicken boned pieces of chickens. 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:59.440 There's no bone in there. You know that that might satisfy. 0:25:59.800 --> 0:26:01.680 But if you want something that's you know, if you 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:03.800 want to just jump in at the deep end and 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:07.160 you go for the King Prawn Vindaloo, and if you're 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:10.879 completely nuts, go for the King Prawn foul which is 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:14.840 the legendary hottest of curries. And these days, of course 0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:18.240 they're made with the benefit of chili peppers that have 0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:23.680 been refined and hybridized in Arizona and New Mexico. So 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.119 these days it could be but jell Okia or the 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:31.680 or the or the the or the or the Reaper 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.000 that you know, the hottest chili peppers on planet Earth. 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:37.880 I know because I've grown those and you know, one 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.880 goes an awfully long way in terms of spicing up 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:52.800 your your supper. Okay, you mentioned Indy, you mentioned Britain. 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:57.359 I have to ask what is your take unclapped in 0:26:57.359 --> 0:26:59.800 It is the anti vax the answer? And what is 0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:05.439 your stance on Brexit? Well, I'm afraid to say that 0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:11.119 people like Van Morrison and Eric Clapton just a name two, 0:27:11.800 --> 0:27:20.400 in the attitude towards COVID, its effects and the vaccine. Um, well, 0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.760 I am ashamed of what they what they say, it really, really, 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:28.400 frankly makes me very angry because it's a you would 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:30.800 think you would think that they would be bright enough 0:27:30.840 --> 0:27:35.159 to know better. And there are people who genuinely have 0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:38.320 a reason not to have the vaccine. But if you're 0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:42.520 a responsible citizen of planet Earth, and I think you 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:45.399 should take the chance and have your double vaccine or 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:48.520 your triple vaccine. And I mean I've actually had five 0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.639 holes in my arm in the last twelve months, three 0:27:52.720 --> 0:27:55.159 to do with COVID, one for pneumonia and one for 0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:59.920 an annual flu vaccine. And I hate needles, I mean 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:04.399 I absolutely hate needles. Drives me nuts. And but at 0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:06.560 the end of the day, three of those five are 0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:10.000 about are about protecting, helping to protect people around me, 0:28:10.119 --> 0:28:13.399 my family, my friends, or complete strangers. I think it 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:16.920 is a bit of a civic duty, frankly, to bite 0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:21.719 the bullet, be vaccinated, and much less chance that you 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:25.480 could be the person who inadvertently infects somebody else, who 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:29.000 may be vulnerable, who may end up in hospital sadly 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:31.919 may die even with O macron, which is not the 0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:35.560 pussycat quite that we were hoping for, but it's better 0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:38.400 than nothing, and we have to accept that. Even though 0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:42.960 infection rates in my country have now seemingly in the 0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:45.600 last week turned the corner and started to go down, 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:48.600 I mean, they're almost half of what they were two 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:54.400 weeks ago, but our death rates, which lag behind the hospitalizations, 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.600 which lag behind infection rates, you know, are still going up, 0:28:57.640 --> 0:29:00.920 and at the at a rate quite as high as 0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:04.400 the worst of two thousand and twenty one, but still worrying. 0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:08.360 And in your country, you know, you're you are as 0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:15.160 of yesterday, pretty close to the highest daily infection rate 0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:19.680 that's been recorded, and O macron is still going up 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:23.240 and death rates are still going up. It's um you 0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:25.480 know we're not out of this yet. And I'm afraid 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:29.760 Eric Clapton and others send an irresponsible message in my 0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:32.600 view to two people. They just simply fall into that 0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:43.200 that kind of fake news and and conspiracy theory stuff 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.840 that that does seem to appeal to so many people, 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:49.960 but it's it isn't really without foundation. And when I've read, 0:29:50.040 --> 0:29:51.920 because I go online and I look at what some 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:54.200 of these people say, and I looked to see where 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:59.240 they got it from, and it is it's neither science, 0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:03.920 common sense or common decency in my view to take 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:07.880 an anti vax state a status in your in the 0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:12.000 way that you influence others. But that's just me. I'm 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:15.800 a low abiding citizen. I'm a nice guy, and I 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:18.760 definitely don't want to catch COVID about possibly avoid it 0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:23.600 because I'm in that vulnerable category with underlying health conditions. 0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:25.960 So you know, I'm taking a little bit of extra 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:27.840 care and I'd like to think other people would do 0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:31.760 the same thing on my you know, for for my sake. 0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:35.959 And what about Brexit. Brexit is well, I remember when 0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:39.640 I I woke up to Brexit. I was in Poland 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.720 to do a concert and I woke up in the morning, 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:46.320 around six seven in the morning and to hear the 0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:49.960 the early results of the Brexit Pole and was pretty 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:53.880 horrified to find out that it was in favor of Brexit. 0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:56.560 I mean, I I think that the EU needed a 0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:59.920 sharp shock to wake it up to the fact that 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:03.320 as an institution, the EU was I mean, it was 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:05.400 a post war thing, you know, it was about bringing 0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:09.120 the European countries together so they wouldn't murder each other 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.760 in battle. And then it developed into an economic union, 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:15.120 which is fair enough. And then it became the EU, 0:31:15.240 --> 0:31:18.840 which was okay, but then it became increasingly caught up 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:22.719 with trying to homogenize the whole, the whole fabric of 0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:26.320 Europe into accepting the same set of laws, same set 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:30.080 of taxation standards, and a whole lot of things that 0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:35.240 I felt were removing the national culture and pride and 0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:40.160 individual nation's sense of who they were, including in the UK. 0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:42.240 So I think the EU needed a bit of a 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:45.520 sharp shop to wake it up. But at the end 0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:49.320 of the day, I was I was disappointed that we 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:51.920 had not been able to find and accommodate some kind 0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:56.640 of a rational way to remain broadly within Europe while 0:31:57.320 --> 0:32:02.080 having more of our own laws, in our immigration policies, 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:06.440 in our own hands, rather than as part of a 0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:11.960 European directive. Unfortunately, it resulted in us leaving the EU, 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:14.200 and I'm rather sad about that. I've been paying my 0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:21.640 my German reunification tax since whatever it was nineteen eighty nine, when, 0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:26.640 after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reunification 0:32:26.680 --> 0:32:29.680 of Germany as a as a performer going there to work, 0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:33.360 part of the withholding taxes that we would pay were 0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:37.960 that small part that went towards the cost of reunifying Germany, 0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:42.040 which is basically building roads and infrastructure and housing and 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:46.800 the whole shooting match of what had been the Eastern 0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:50.880 Germany ground into the into the dirt by the communist 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:56.920 regime as an offshoot of of the USSR. But you know, 0:32:56.960 --> 0:32:59.520 I'm I'm I am sorry that we've left the EU. 0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:04.360 I'm a European, I'm I'm a I'm a Britain first, 0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:08.520 but I feel very strongly a European. It's where I've 0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:11.320 spent much of my life and I hope, in what 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:13.760 remains of it I get to spend some more time 0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:17.400 in Europe. So yeah, I'm sorry to have left but 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.640 I didn't want to. In a way, I'm kind of 0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:23.120 glad we didn't stay on the terms that we were on. 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:28.040 I just felt there was prospects to tough it out 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:30.040 a little more and get more of what we wanted 0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:34.440 while still remaining part of Europe. Not a problem that 0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:36.800 you guys have. It's you, But you do have the 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:39.480 problem of NATO, and you do have the problem of 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:43.720 an angry Mr Putin who's hell bent on trying to rebuild, 0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:47.440 you know, from the ashes of the USSR, trying to 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:51.320 rebuild a broader empire than the one that he lords 0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:54.120 over at the moment. I have a photograph, we can 0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:57.000 find this online, a photograph of of when I went 0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:00.640 to play in St. Petersburg, I think in or ninety 0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:06.480 one and met the mayor of St. Petersburg at the 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:14.240 time and his assistant kind of rather odd, weird looking 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:17.400 little man who was looking daggers at me. In this photograph. 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:23.040 It turned out to be the KGB Major Putin. Although 0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:26.120 he was the chief economic advisor to the Mayor of St. Petersburg, 0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:29.320 he was actually a major in the KGB at the 0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:33.360 same time. And Putin is just the look on his 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:38.080 face as I'm you know, smooching with his boss is priceless. 0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:42.120 And when I was well, it was brought to my 0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:45.000 attention many many years later that there was a photograph 0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:48.880 of us in the same frame. But you can see 0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:52.360 something about putin that and look in his eyes. It's 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:55.440 he's a frightening guy. I actually have a huge admiration 0:34:55.560 --> 0:35:00.359 for him as a international statesman and politician. But he's 0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:04.279 a very scary man, and I can you know, like 0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:06.440 everybody else, we know what he's trying to do. But 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:11.239 as someone who's supposed to be in Ukraine in um 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:14.160 in the middle in the one at the end of 0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:18.399 the first week of April UM, it's one of those 0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:22.840 slightly nerve wracking prospects that will Ukraine still be Ukraine 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:24.719 by the time I get there, Will I which would 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.000 be another gig in Russia? Well, I'm gonna be in 0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:30.040 Russia for that matter, and whenever it is sometime not 0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:33.880 too far off to do some concerts there that have 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:38.160 been rescheduled three times already, like most of our concerts 0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:42.239 since early two and twenty, we're on our third or 0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:46.120 fourth rescheduling of dates that people bought tickets for in 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:48.239 the middle of two thousand and nineteen and we've not 0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:52.000 showed up for work yet. I mean's so embarrassing. Just 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:55.160 staying on the politics one more time. A couple of 0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:58.280 days ago, the lead piece in the New York Times 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:03.320 our ed page was about the UK sliding into authoritarianism 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:08.799 Boris Johnson passing all these laws about being arrested if 0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:12.239 you protest, etcetera. Do you think there's a possibility we 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:14.560 certainly have this issue in the US and needles sat 0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:18.120 Putin is an authoritarian or is that overblown? But I 0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:21.279 think it's a bit overblown. We are pretty much a 0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:25.480 liberal society and media. You know, we have a couple 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:28.719 of right wing newspapers, but they're not anything like as 0:36:28.760 --> 0:36:34.200 far to the writers say fox Um. And at the 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:37.720 same time, you know, whilst our liberal side of things 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:41.920 maybe a little more, a little bit more to the 0:36:42.000 --> 0:36:48.160 left than than CNN, we're still generally speaking, I think 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:51.239 we're relatively tolerant country. And you know, once in a 0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:54.560 while you've got to try and get to grips with 0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:57.440 what is increasingly what is referred to here as wokeasm. 0:36:57.520 --> 0:37:02.799 You know, it's a those who have adopted really an 0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:08.160 ultra liberal position because they are partly following trends and 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:12.120 not wanting to appear hostile or out of touch and 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:13.840 so on. But you know, there's got to be some 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.360 common sense in all of it. And you know, some 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:18.080 of it I go along with, and some of it 0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:22.840 i've you know, I feel a little awkward about. But 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.880 generally speaking, you know, we are pretty much a liberal country, 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:31.279 and the most extreme of our right wing media and 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:37.040 those within the Conservative Party are still puttycats compared to 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:41.480 the Republicans of the USA, not all of them, but 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:43.839 most of them. And you know, one of my great 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:50.359 chums was and absolutely died in the whole idealistic Republican 0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:54.360 and and he was someone you could have a spirited 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.200 to argument or discussion with. But he was a true 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:03.600 Southern gentleman and loved by all Democrats and Republicans alike, 0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:08.279 particularly during his stint not only with with Fox, but 0:38:09.600 --> 0:38:15.720 as the as the press secretary for for President Bush, 0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:19.040 actually two President Bushes. He was he was the scriptwriter 0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:22.640 for Dad and then it was the press secretary for 0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:26.920 for Junior, and and I was in his office one 0:38:27.000 --> 0:38:29.919 day in the White House and he um, he said, 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:33.960 dropping names, but we were we were there just as 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:38.520 you know, unexceptional guests to watch a press conference, and 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:42.279 went back to Tony Snow's office. Tony Snow's the name 0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:45.560 of the man. And and we got back to his 0:38:45.600 --> 0:38:49.120 office after the press briefing and the phone rang, and 0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:52.440 it was Barbara Starr from CNN, and I could read 0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.600 his body language and the tone of his voice. He 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:56.960 was being so polite and nice to her. And she 0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:58.879 was trying to get the scoop, trying to pin him 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:01.680 down on all that you know rubbish, you just said, 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:04.719 you know, covering up for Bush. But you know, what's 0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:07.319 the real story here, what's the real And and he 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:09.640 was so nice and poline. He said, Barbara, you know, 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:12.439 if I if I could give you anything more, you'd 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:14.480 be the first person I would call. It's it's really 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:16.960 nice to hear from you. And but you've got the 0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:20.640 you've got the impression he was somebody that was it 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:23.240 was really appreciated as a as a person of honor 0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:27.719 and discretion and a gentlemanly way of doing things. And 0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:32.080 he had a very easy relationship with the media left 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:37.440 and right alike. And I remember before Tony died finally 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:43.759 tragically after repeated illness, with with colon cancer. He I 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:45.759 did say to him, Toney, would you ever, you know, 0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:50.320 would you consider a political career, you know, shift away 0:39:50.360 --> 0:39:55.040 from being a backroom boy to actually, you know, running 0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:59.080 for serious office. Um? And he was sort of bashful 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:02.040 about it. No, No, my wife wouldn't really want me 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:03.799 to do that, and blah blah blah blah blah. But 0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:06.960 I've always thought that Tony, Tony would have been the 0:40:06.960 --> 0:40:12.400 Republican president for the USA that the USA really needed. Um. 0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:14.920 Sadly he was never around to do that. That his 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:18.520 last gig wasn't for Fox. His last gig he was appointed. 0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:22.279 He took on the job with CNN to be their 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:27.520 Republican reporting the upcoming election where Obama won. And that 0:40:27.640 --> 0:40:32.320 was Tony's that the last appointment he had at that point. 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:35.400 I guess he knew he wasn't going to make it. 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:38.840 And sadly he was never able to take on that 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:44.080 appointment because he became very seriously and died before before 0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:47.960 that happened. But it was an interesting, an interesting twist 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:52.520 that you know, Tony was so appreciated and revered that 0:40:52.560 --> 0:40:55.640 he would be taken on by CNN to be the 0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:59.359 the voice of the Republican Party within CNN whenever they 0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:03.080 were talking out and analyzing the the events leading up 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:06.080 to the election. So I, you know, I missed Tony. 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:07.920 He was a good guy and he would have been 0:41:07.920 --> 0:41:11.080 a good precedent. And he was a flute player. And 0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:13.080 that's how I got to know because his his whole 0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:16.520 passion was playing the flute. He and I argued. I 0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:20.360 said that he was the model for the the anchorman 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:25.960 flute playing sequence, the jazz flute bit, and he claimed 0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:29.680 that no, he couldn't. Possibly it must be me. In reality, 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:32.799 it was probably both of us. But I would never 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.920 classify myself as a jazz flutist and an anchor man. 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:38.640 I mean, he was a media person, he was a 0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:42.560 you know, he was a and so was Tony. So 0:41:42.960 --> 0:41:46.120 I always had my bet that it was modeled on Tony, 0:41:46.200 --> 0:41:50.239 But who knows. We'd have to ask the writers and 0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:54.640 the and the the actor. You know, where did he 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:57.440 get that idea for him? Okay, let's go back and 0:41:57.480 --> 0:42:01.240 set the scene in the sixties in US, there's certainly 0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:04.879 always been music, but generally speaking, the early sixties were 0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:07.720 very vapid, and then at the beginning of the sixty 0:42:07.800 --> 0:42:11.760 four the Beatles arrived. What was going on in the UK? 0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:14.880 You know, we hear about the blues records being imported 0:42:14.880 --> 0:42:18.320 by soldiers. We hear the scene in Liverpool, the Beatles 0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:21.839 play at the Cavern Club. You know, as I say, 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:24.960 in the US, people saw the Beatles on it solivan, 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:29.160 They picked up electric guitars. What was your experience of 0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:31.800 the scene. Well, I had already picked up an electric guitar, 0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:34.680 I think at the time, possibly when the Beatles came along. 0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:37.239 That's another one of my questions. What motivated you? Yeah, 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:39.719 But it wasn't really that I was a Beatles fan. 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:43.279 I mean I remember when they first appeared with a 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:46.880 song called Loved Me Do, and I think what appealed 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:49.400 to me about it was the harmonica that kind of 0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:52.719 set me off in the track of playing harmonica. But 0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:55.359 you know, they were okay, but they were a pop 0:42:55.400 --> 0:43:00.279 group and I had already at that point discovered as 0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:03.839 and blues, and I was not really enamored too much 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:07.200 of of the early Beatles. Although they were catchy songs, 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.080 you could see the expertise and the energy and the 0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:16.480 the ghost youthful the thing that they put across that 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:21.000 that allowed a generation of people to to feel passionate 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.640 about being young and expressing themselves. But for me, that that, 0:43:25.000 --> 0:43:26.600 you know, in the UK at that time, you know, 0:43:26.760 --> 0:43:29.080 was a curious mixture of different sorts of music, and 0:43:29.160 --> 0:43:31.480 the pop music of the day was still for the 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:35.480 most part it had been emulating Elvis Presley and other 0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:41.719 derivative imitations of other US acts, So it hadn't really 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:44.440 we hadn't really home grown very much. That was anything 0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:47.800 to feel good about until until the Beatles came along, 0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:51.360 and and and and In America you had to endure 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:55.520 Herman's Hermits and the Dave Clark five um as, the 0:43:55.600 --> 0:44:00.960 imports from the UK, which people loved sure enough. But 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.000 when the Beatles arrived in town, it was a whole, 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:08.759 a whole new ball game. And then it seemed a 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:13.120 quite quick movement towards something where the Beatles we saw 0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:16.920 them mature and developers musicians. And then the big landmark 0:44:17.000 --> 0:44:18.759 thing that made a difference to me and I'm sure 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:23.200 many of my peers in the UK, was the advent 0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:27.719 of what became not progressive rock but progressive pop. It 0:44:27.800 --> 0:44:30.080 was Sergeant Pepper in the summer of sixty seven, and 0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:32.680 within a couple of months of that there was the 0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:36.239 Pink Floyd was Piper at the Gates of Dawn, and 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.799 these two albums they were like a signpost. It was. 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:43.160 It was like walking down a walking down a path 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:45.440 in the middle of the woods and suddenly coming across 0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:47.840 a fork in the road and a signpost they're saying, 0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:54.239 you know this way, And it was a huge motivator, 0:44:54.280 --> 0:44:56.279 you know, to hear what you could do with pop 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:58.200 music on the one hand and what you could do 0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:02.919 with psychedelic rock on the other. So it was quite 0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:06.319 important to me, not as the actual musical style or 0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:09.200 the or the elements of the of the music, or 0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:12.520 the personalities of people playing. It was just that motivation 0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:15.560 that you could actually take it into your own hands 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:19.160 and write and record and put music out. There wasn't 0:45:19.200 --> 0:45:23.360 mainstream pop music. Of course, the Beatles had George Martin, 0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:26.080 without whom I'm sure they couldn't have made that record, 0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:29.920 and Pink Floyd had Said Barrett, without whom the lyrics 0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:34.200 and the essence of those songs wouldn't really mentor busting amount, 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:39.840 but they were. They were real signposts and landmarks in 0:45:40.400 --> 0:45:44.120 my early days as a teenager. So yeah, it was 0:45:44.239 --> 0:45:48.120 definitely a step forward from the the imitative rock and 0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:51.919 roll of Britain's music scene in the from the late 0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:55.040 fifties through to the mid sixties, which was frankly a 0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:58.760 little embarrassing. You were just copying people singing with American 0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:03.680 accents and wearing the clothes and pretending to be um, 0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:07.280 you know, the American artists that they revered and whose 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:18.280 careers they aspired to. Okay, so you're an art school. 0:46:18.400 --> 0:46:21.839 Is that a holding place? Where do you envision being 0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:24.399 an artist or a designer? And how do you pick 0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:28.920 up the guitar and how does that become your direction 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:32.000 in life? Well, I had a guitar at the age 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:36.920 of I think eleven. I persuaded my first of all 0:46:37.000 --> 0:46:38.200 I had had I think when I was eight or 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:42.200 nine years old, I got an Elvis Presley ukulele. That 0:46:42.440 --> 0:46:46.480 was my birthday present or Christmas present. Boats not online, 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.680 but you know, a mail order thing. And and I 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:53.160 remember the black and white add for this ukulele, and 0:46:53.160 --> 0:46:55.360 it was a picture of Elvis playing what looked like 0:46:55.360 --> 0:46:58.520 a full sized guitar, and it was. It cost twenty 0:46:58.520 --> 0:47:00.880 two and sixpence, which you know, in those days was 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:06.640 probably a couple of dollars, and naively, I thought, wow, 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:08.640 you know, that's the real deal. And what what arrived 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:11.120 in the post was this thing that was, you know, 0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:17.360 fifteen inches long and fragile piece of plastic with nylon strings. 0:47:17.360 --> 0:47:19.239 It wouldn't stay in tune, and I mean it was 0:47:19.280 --> 0:47:22.600 really quite horrible, but you could actually play a few 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:27.000 chords and and and some simple tunes. And I went 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:30.560 on from there to get a beating up old Spanish 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:34.920 guitar to which I attached steel strings, which of course 0:47:35.239 --> 0:47:38.000 meant that the action lifted up off the fret board 0:47:38.040 --> 0:47:40.080 to the point where you had bleeding fingers and the 0:47:40.120 --> 0:47:45.120 attempt to play C major and and it was. It 0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:51.279 was pretty out of tune, but I managed to begin with, 0:47:51.440 --> 0:47:53.200 along with a couple of school chumps, to make some 0:47:54.200 --> 0:47:58.000 vaguely musical noises in the style of what was called skiffle. 0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:02.719 Skiffle in the UK and the in the fifties was 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:06.040 kind of homegrown music form. It was a precursor to punk. 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:07.200 You know, you didn't have to be able to play 0:48:07.239 --> 0:48:10.120 a musical instrument, you just kind of did it. And 0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:13.239 you don't have drum kits. You had a washboard, you know, 0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:16.360 the sort of corrugated metal thing that used for scrubbing 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:21.000 clothes on. And a t chest bass which was literally 0:48:21.160 --> 0:48:23.839 a wooden t chest that he was packed in. And 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:27.040 you had a pole, you know, like a like a 0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:30.640 broom pole, and a piece of string that was stretched 0:48:30.640 --> 0:48:33.799 between the two and you have bum bum boom by 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.759 pulling the pole tighter or loosening it off. And so 0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:41.320 that was skiffle, and it was homemade, very simple music 0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:46.480 that was essentially derived from bluegrass and blue grass in 0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:50.279 his turn, of course, derived from folk music from the UK, 0:48:50.480 --> 0:48:55.200 from Scotland, Ireland, England, and from from Northwest Europe. So 0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:57.799 it had turned around and come back to the UK 0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:03.239 is as a music form that we could all pick 0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:05.640 up on. You know. There was some energetic and fun 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:08.960 songs from the few artists who were able to record 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:12.000 and perform, but blue bluegrass in the form of skiffle 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:16.399 was something that I think probably was the starting point 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:19.359 for many of the musicians of my my era. I mean, 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:20.719 I've not really talked to any of them, so I 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:22.840 don't know most of them, but I would be surprised 0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:27.280 if they hadn't also followed the same the same tracks 0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:31.480 as I did. As a teenager, you know, through through 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:33.800 those early music forms, and I think what we didn't 0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:39.200 like was the cheesy, show busy, imitative British pop music, 0:49:39.280 --> 0:49:42.759 which was based on the American stuff that you know, 0:49:42.840 --> 0:49:44.719 we we all preferred the real dealing. We're going to 0:49:44.800 --> 0:49:47.320 do American music, then let's let's let's do Muddy Water, 0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:51.719 Let's do Harling Wolf, Let's do even Chuck Berry or 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:55.200 or Bo Diddley, you know, which was obviously that the 0:49:55.239 --> 0:49:58.759 pop side of the blues. But those of us who 0:49:58.840 --> 0:50:02.040 grew up with us and jazz as teenagers, you know, 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:03.719 I think we we set our sights on something a 0:50:03.760 --> 0:50:07.719 little more esoteric until it dawned on us that we 0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:11.720 were middle class white boys. We weren't black. We didn't 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:14.799 have the experience, the background, the culture. We were just 0:50:15.040 --> 0:50:18.920 still copying something that really wasn't ours. Which is why I, 0:50:20.440 --> 0:50:24.240 after a few months of being in a blues band, 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:25.680 you know, I was anxious to try and write my 0:50:25.760 --> 0:50:31.000 own songs and step away from the accusation potentially of 0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:36.600 just ripping off black American folk music, which I revered 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:40.440 and to this day still do. I would hate to 0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:43.839 be thought of as just a copyist. So you make 0:50:43.920 --> 0:50:47.480 this transition, how do you end up going down south 0:50:47.520 --> 0:50:52.600 to London and becoming professional? What is your goal? And 0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:56.319 you were really starving, so what was that like and 0:50:56.440 --> 0:50:59.000 how did you keep yourself on track with the dreams 0:50:59.040 --> 0:51:01.920 supposed to giving up? When I grew up, I mean 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:04.000 I was born in Scotland, but I moved to the 0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.280 age of twelve, I think, to the north of England, 0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:09.160 to a town called Blackpool, a seaside town I've often 0:51:09.239 --> 0:51:12.920 likened to either the worst of New Jersey. You know, 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:15.680 it's a it's a it's you know, it's a it's 0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:18.880 a town where people go to have a good time, 0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:24.200 but it's pretty desolate in winter. And um, the boardwalk 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:28.080 in in a in Atlantic city or in New Jersey, 0:51:28.120 --> 0:51:31.560 it's it's reminiscent of the promenade in Blackpool. People strut 0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:34.399 up and down and ever. In the summer it's nice, 0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:36.960 you know, eating ice cream and eating burghers or doing 0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:40.280 what you do, same sort of thing. But you couldn't 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:43.520 really think about being a full time musician in Blackpool 0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:46.759 because the only opportunities really were to be essentially a 0:51:46.800 --> 0:51:51.239 cover band, or or to be something really very show 0:51:51.280 --> 0:51:55.759 busy and do you know some sort of very conspicuously 0:51:55.760 --> 0:51:59.160 pop music, but everybody knew that if you wanted to 0:52:00.120 --> 0:52:01.560 if you wanting to make it, you know, sure you 0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:05.160 could go to Manchester or the or Liverpool and playing 0:52:05.239 --> 0:52:10.239 some clubs that were perhaps more the the the up 0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:15.520 and coming places. But long term, everybody the gout feeling 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:17.399 was you've gotta go. You gotta go to London. That's 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:20.000 where you make it. That's where the music industry has 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:23.880 really centered, the record companies, the biggest clubs and venues 0:52:23.920 --> 0:52:28.680 and so on. So around sixty seven I decided that, 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:32.680 you know, I should bite the bullet and leave home 0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:39.240 and try for the London opportunity should it, should it exist, 0:52:39.440 --> 0:52:40.920 But you know I had a plan B and a 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:42.880 plan to see you know, it wasn't like I was, 0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:48.520 you know, burning my boats and so it was. It 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:52.440 was a dangerous move, but it worked out in the 0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:56.600 sense of having a couple of months of abject poverty 0:52:57.440 --> 0:53:01.000 and literally going hungry and going very very cold, because 0:53:01.000 --> 0:53:03.440 sixty seven and in the UK was one of the 0:53:03.480 --> 0:53:07.960 coldest winters on record. But you know, it picked up 0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:10.480 again January February. Got to get at the Marquee Club 0:53:10.560 --> 0:53:14.279 and things moved on. From there and my days of 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:21.640 eating recycled off cuts of meat and bits of past 0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:25.799 their cell by date vegetables and cooking them up. And 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:29.000 then you didn't want to waste anything, so you would 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:32.000 cook it up and then and then you'd add something 0:53:32.000 --> 0:53:33.680 else to it next day, and something else. That the 0:53:33.680 --> 0:53:35.879 part just stayed on the stove and you just kept 0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:39.799 sort of adding to it, and so everything stewed in 0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:44.440 its own juices. But it kept me, kept me going 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:47.320 for a couple of weeks of the bad period of time. 0:53:48.239 --> 0:53:50.279 And then you know, we've got a few gigs. I 0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:55.279 had enough money to go and buy you know, take 0:53:55.320 --> 0:54:00.000 away Chinese or something that was unbelievably I mean, absolutely 0:54:00.040 --> 0:54:03.880 lutally just the most amazing experience was to go in 0:54:03.880 --> 0:54:08.399 a Chinese takeaway and order some egg fried rice and 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:12.080 and some sweet and style pork and you know, some 0:54:12.680 --> 0:54:15.720 noodles and whatever, and take it back to your lonely 0:54:15.760 --> 0:54:19.560 little bedsit room, and and it would still be warm enough, 0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:21.759 and and you know, you put your hands on it 0:54:21.800 --> 0:54:23.640 to try and warm your hands up first of all 0:54:23.680 --> 0:54:26.640 before you ate it. It was that that was just 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:30.960 the most amazing, wonderful experience of being independent, being on 0:54:31.000 --> 0:54:33.920 your own, away from your parents, and I spent most 0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:37.240 of my time alone because I didn't really have any friends, 0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:39.920 know anybody down there, apart from the guys in the band. 0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:43.799 But there they lived in actually in nearby town, so 0:54:43.840 --> 0:54:45.600 we didn't see each other unless we had a gig 0:54:45.640 --> 0:54:47.880 to go to. So I spent a lot of time alone. 0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:50.279 It was quite useful because I learned to play a 0:54:50.320 --> 0:54:53.120 little bit of flute and I started to write some music, 0:54:53.160 --> 0:54:57.160 and I read several of Jack carro Act's works, which 0:54:57.200 --> 0:55:04.479 were an interesting, um parallel to my own rather desolate life. 0:55:04.480 --> 0:55:08.000 I remember reading Desolate Angels as a time when I 0:55:08.040 --> 0:55:11.600 was particularly cold and miserable and alone, and in a 0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:16.840 way it was somebody sharing that experience of a stark, 0:55:17.080 --> 0:55:22.200 rather bleak situation that that gave me a little bit 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:26.319 feeling that I wasn't alone in the world. Um so 0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:28.120 I yes, I I you know, it all worked out 0:55:28.200 --> 0:55:31.600 and I can't complain. I only went hungry for two weeks, 0:55:31.640 --> 0:55:36.160 you know, Okay, So ultimately band puts out the album 0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:40.640 this was Was it always you were band? Or was 0:55:40.680 --> 0:55:45.560 it more of equal voice, equal membership? Well, I guess 0:55:45.680 --> 0:55:50.400 right at the beginning, Um, you might have thought it 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:53.880 was for guys who had an equal stake in things, 0:55:53.920 --> 0:55:57.920 and you know, we're equal voices. But in reality, Mick 0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:02.960 Abraham's the guitar player and I were you know, more 0:56:04.000 --> 0:56:06.840 dynamic musical forces. And we needed Mick because he was 0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:10.120 a you know, virtue as a guitar player and a 0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:14.560 and a shouter, a blue shouter. You know, he'd like 0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:17.560 to give it a lot of energy, and you know, 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:21.040 he had a lot going for him as a blues 0:56:21.120 --> 0:56:24.760 and rock performer, and he was vital to the band 0:56:25.640 --> 0:56:28.800 um But I was the odd bawl who brought something 0:56:28.800 --> 0:56:31.720 else to the party that was not mainstream in terms 0:56:31.719 --> 0:56:37.280 of blues or an approach, and he and I always 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:41.480 had an uneasy relationship. I think he was uncomfortable with 0:56:41.640 --> 0:56:48.200 me because of my musical aspirations didn't stop with you know, 0:56:48.560 --> 0:56:53.200 imitative blues, and the other guys tended after a while 0:56:53.320 --> 0:56:56.879 to come more towards me than Mike. It was very 0:56:56.880 --> 0:56:59.960 set in his ways and a bit of a mercurial 0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:04.120 character from time to time. But when we really fell 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:08.399 out with Mick towards the end of of we were 0:57:10.040 --> 0:57:12.839 already getting a little bit established in the UK, and 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:17.200 it was at a time when it was make or break, 0:57:17.280 --> 0:57:20.560 you know, would either build upon that early small success 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:26.160 and find a new guitar player or you know, go 0:57:26.280 --> 0:57:30.600 back home to mummy, as were the options. Okay, so 0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:34.600 how did it end with Mick? And is fat Man 0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:37.760 on stand up about Mick? Well, it's not really about Mick. 0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:41.320 It was just the only time we have a traveled 0:57:41.360 --> 0:57:43.480 abroad because Mick wouldn't get on an airplane, but we 0:57:43.480 --> 0:57:48.880 could get a ferry to Denmark and we went to 0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:52.720 play in two clubs on the ferry from the east 0:57:52.720 --> 0:57:56.720 coast of England. And on the way back to the 0:57:56.760 --> 0:57:59.440 ferry to get the ferry home, we went past we 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:00.800 had a little bit of time in how we went 0:58:00.840 --> 0:58:05.720 past a porn shop m in es Buerg, and I know, 0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:07.920 just in the porn shop there was a mandolin hanging 0:58:07.960 --> 0:58:10.600 there and I went in and you know, with my 0:58:10.800 --> 0:58:13.320 whatever I learned for doing the club dates, I bought 0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:16.600 a mandolin. Had no idea how to play or tune 0:58:16.680 --> 0:58:19.800 up or anything. And on the way back, because it's 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:21.640 quite a long ferry journey, so we were it was 0:58:21.640 --> 0:58:23.600 an overnight thing and Mick and I were sharing a 0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:27.440 cabin and I really annoyed him by tuning up and 0:58:27.480 --> 0:58:30.680 trying to play this mandolin, and he was just getting 0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:33.880 really really testy about the fact I was keeping him awake. 0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:35.400 And but you know, a little bit of a tune 0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:37.720 coming on other what this is good? I like this. 0:58:38.600 --> 0:58:45.320 And and we used to tease Mick, who was pink cherubic, 0:58:45.520 --> 0:58:47.800 sort of slightly chubby. He wasn't fat, you know, he 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:50.400 wasn't a beast. He was just a little just a 0:58:50.400 --> 0:58:52.919 little chubby in a healthy chubby kind of a way, 0:58:52.960 --> 0:58:55.080 whereas the rest of us were sort of rake thin, 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:59.400 basically because his mom cooked for him. And when we 0:58:59.400 --> 0:59:02.840 were start think, but I used to tease me about being, 0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:05.720 you know, not fat, but you know, being a little chubby. 0:59:05.960 --> 0:59:08.800 And so I wrote this song I Don't want to 0:59:08.800 --> 0:59:12.480 be a fat man. And it wasn't really about him. 0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:16.800 It was just, yeah, just a little notion really, And 0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:19.880 but he was convinced I was. It was a sort 0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:26.920 of bitter attack on his corporeal presence, and and and 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:29.880 he wasn't too happy about it. But it wasn't really 0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:33.160 about me. I mean, I never write songs that are 0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:37.080 about real people because I would never betray a relationship 0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:42.320 by by making it so, you know, so intrusive into 0:59:42.400 --> 0:59:46.080 somebody's life. But there is an amalgam of personalities and 0:59:46.160 --> 0:59:50.080 people that's an as an observer. Since I'm that kind 0:59:50.120 --> 0:59:52.960 of a writer, I might draw together a few different 0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:56.520 people and that becomes a character in a song. But 0:59:56.560 --> 0:59:59.320 it's never about a particular individual. I was certainly never 0:59:59.520 --> 1:00:03.360 name name hims or you know, take an individual as 1:00:03.360 --> 1:00:05.840 a model for a song. I would just hate to 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:10.280 embarrass somebody or betray something that is private between us 1:00:10.280 --> 1:00:13.360 as a relationship, whether it's a couple of guys or 1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:17.080 men and a woman, or you know, it's for me, 1:00:17.280 --> 1:00:21.800 it's it's all, you know, pretty private stuff. So have 1:00:21.920 --> 1:00:25.160 you ever listened to a blood Wind Pig record? And 1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:27.160 I know he's had his health issues, but what's your 1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:30.240 relationship of any with Mick today? Well, Mick went on 1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:32.080 to do blood Wind Pig and got a lot of 1:00:32.080 --> 1:00:37.040 help from us and our managers and record company, and 1:00:37.040 --> 1:00:40.520 Bloodwind Pig were on tour with Gester Hotel a couple 1:00:40.520 --> 1:00:44.040 of points along the way and and after Blood Wind Pig, 1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:46.360 I mean just sort of mixed band. But they threw 1:00:46.440 --> 1:00:49.360 him out of his own band in the end because 1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:52.200 I think they just he was a tricky chap, you know, 1:00:52.320 --> 1:00:55.640 to to work with. I mean, very nice man, you know, 1:00:55.680 --> 1:01:01.600 he's had absolutely bighearted, nice guy, but just so insecure 1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:06.360 and bundle of nerves and twitchy and it always um 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:09.200 and it's just kind of awkward to be around, so 1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:13.640 desperate to be liked. It was, it was overbearing. But 1:01:14.360 --> 1:01:17.960 after Blood Wind Pig, Mick went on, you know, through 1:01:17.960 --> 1:01:24.720 a various musical and unmusical activities, and when he started 1:01:25.040 --> 1:01:27.520 working again, you know, I played with him a few 1:01:27.520 --> 1:01:32.480 times and we did some songs for one of his 1:01:32.720 --> 1:01:37.240 solo albums and so on, and once in a while 1:01:37.280 --> 1:01:41.440 we've spoken. Mike unfortunately these days having stuff with very 1:01:41.440 --> 1:01:45.800 serious little health, it's not really you know, he's not 1:01:45.920 --> 1:01:51.480 really able to have conversations on the phone or whatever. 1:01:51.560 --> 1:01:55.720 And you know, I think changed emails a few times. 1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:59.840 But but Mick's you know, you know, he's not well. 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:05.480 And I always been a little sad that he's not 1:02:05.640 --> 1:02:09.200 able to do anything anymore at all musically. But my 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:14.000 son was actively engaged in doing a sort of tribute 1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:18.760 charity concert in London for make and which I was 1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:21.360 I couldn't I couldn't go to I wasn't. I was 1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:24.000 away somewhere else, but it was nice to think that 1:02:24.520 --> 1:02:27.520 my son James was one of the organizers of a 1:02:27.520 --> 1:02:32.880 fundraiser for Mick to recognize his his role in those 1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:35.880 years of being part of the British music scene. And 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:37.880 Mick has a lot of parles, a lot of friends 1:02:37.880 --> 1:02:42.000 who were stand by him, and you know he was 1:02:42.080 --> 1:02:45.240 in his day, he was one of those guitar players. 1:02:45.600 --> 1:02:51.280 Maybe not so obviously on the level of the Eric 1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:54.200 Clapton or Peter Green or Jimmy Page or any of 1:02:54.240 --> 1:02:57.200 those guys, but he was, you know, he was a 1:02:57.280 --> 1:03:02.760 revered blues and rock guitarist and until his little health 1:03:03.000 --> 1:03:05.960 took over, you know, he was still doing pretty well. Okay, 1:03:06.040 --> 1:03:09.240 let's go to stand Up. This is obviously a different 1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:12.480 era and Needles say, it's not streaming, it's vinyl. The 1:03:12.600 --> 1:03:15.800 white album would come out, which was actually a response 1:03:15.880 --> 1:03:19.919 to overdone packages. But in sixty nine you put out 1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:23.200 stand Up and it literally stands up when you open 1:03:23.280 --> 1:03:26.840 the cover. Whose idea was that, well, I have to that. 1:03:26.880 --> 1:03:29.440 Then all the credit goes to Terry Ellis, our manager, 1:03:29.520 --> 1:03:34.880 because the the first album cover this was that was 1:03:35.000 --> 1:03:39.760 that was my idea and Terry, bless him, went along 1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:42.400 with it. I mean, Warner Brothers and Ireland I think 1:03:42.400 --> 1:03:44.720 hated it because he can't possibly do this is a 1:03:45.200 --> 1:03:47.200 picture of a bunch of old guys with a lot 1:03:47.240 --> 1:03:49.080 of dogs around them, and then the name of the 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:51.240 band isn't even on the front cover. You know, you 1:03:51.320 --> 1:03:55.000 can't do that. But but Terry kind of, you know, 1:03:55.080 --> 1:03:58.600 he stood by us, and that was what I wanted 1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:00.600 it to be like, and so he went along with it, 1:04:00.680 --> 1:04:03.520 and I think it got people's attention because who who 1:04:03.520 --> 1:04:05.480 would bring out an album cover and the name of 1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:07.480 the band isn't even on the on the front of 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:10.840 the cover. It was on the back. But nonetheless it 1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:15.080 was it was my my, my one. And then stand up. 1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:18.520 Terry had come up with a with an artist in 1:04:18.520 --> 1:04:23.959 the USA who did specialized in in wood cuts, and 1:04:24.320 --> 1:04:26.040 I don't know what Terry saw this, but it was, 1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:28.880 you know, very graphic. And as having been to our school, 1:04:28.880 --> 1:04:30.920 I did some would cut some things at school, so 1:04:30.960 --> 1:04:35.960 I was quite quite um, you know, quite happy to 1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:38.600 go along with that. And and Terry came up with 1:04:38.640 --> 1:04:40.560 the idea of a gate fall cover that you would 1:04:40.560 --> 1:04:42.200 open up and there would be this sort of pop 1:04:42.280 --> 1:04:47.840 up thing of the band, and you know what, was it? Okay, fine, 1:04:47.880 --> 1:04:50.080 well if you can make that work, let's let's let's 1:04:50.080 --> 1:04:54.400 do it. And that indeed was the was the was 1:04:54.440 --> 1:04:57.560 the album cover, which you know was quite in its way, 1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:01.120 quite iconic, and the fact that the album then did 1:05:01.160 --> 1:05:03.080 go on to do very well in the UK. In fact, 1:05:03.080 --> 1:05:07.160 we were on our second US tour. Um. I remember 1:05:07.200 --> 1:05:14.160 being in Loose Midtown in Manhattan in the breakfast room, 1:05:14.320 --> 1:05:18.360 having breakfast with the guys, and in walked Joe Cocker 1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:21.600 and came over to our tables. That our congratulations. So 1:05:21.720 --> 1:05:23.760 why what's happened? He said? Your album just went to 1:05:23.840 --> 1:05:27.520 number one in the UK charts? So can I can 1:05:27.560 --> 1:05:29.520 I have kind of you're gonna eat all of that bacon? 1:05:29.560 --> 1:05:34.200 Can I have a bit? So the the you know, 1:05:34.280 --> 1:05:37.040 the the good news was we were away from the 1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:38.880 UK and could do nothing about it, but we had 1:05:38.920 --> 1:05:42.280 a number one album in England and that was when 1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:44.520 Terry said, Wow, you know we've got to We've got 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:47.560 to capitalize on this. We need something to keep the sea, 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:49.720 put it to keep the pot boiling while we were 1:05:50.120 --> 1:05:52.320 out of the UK on a long tour. So can 1:05:52.360 --> 1:05:55.480 you can you write a hit single that we can 1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:59.720 release in the UK while we're away, and to humor him, 1:05:59.760 --> 1:06:02.440 I say, yeah, sure, no problem, just give me a 1:06:02.480 --> 1:06:05.440 couple of hours. And by then I think we we've 1:06:05.480 --> 1:06:08.320 gone to Boston, and so we checked into a holiday 1:06:08.320 --> 1:06:12.720 in the hotel alongside a band called Pentangle who were 1:06:12.720 --> 1:06:17.120 also checking it at the same time, and and I said, Okay, Terry, 1:06:17.120 --> 1:06:18.640 give me a couple of hours. I'll meet you in 1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:22.080 the lobby and I'll write a hit single while I'm upstairs. 1:06:22.960 --> 1:06:25.480 I was just I was just fooling around, you know, 1:06:25.520 --> 1:06:28.320 I was just just just winding him up. But I 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:29.640 went back down to the lobby and he said, have 1:06:29.640 --> 1:06:31.160 you written it? If you got it? And I said, well, 1:06:31.360 --> 1:06:33.200 sort of, maybe, I don't know. He said, right, well, 1:06:33.200 --> 1:06:34.960 i'll book you into a studio in New York next 1:06:35.000 --> 1:06:37.880 week and we'll go and record it. So I had 1:06:37.920 --> 1:06:41.960 to come up with, you know, something slightly more refined 1:06:42.000 --> 1:06:44.320 from that basic idea, and we went in and recorded 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:47.520 the backing track to Living in the Past and in 1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:52.040 a studio in m I think it was actually in 1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:57.720 New Jersey, which across the river, and and then we 1:06:57.760 --> 1:06:59.960 went then to the West Coast. I remember then I 1:07:00.200 --> 1:07:02.760 did the flute and vocal over dubs in the studio 1:07:02.880 --> 1:07:06.920 and in uh I think it was in San Francisco, 1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:09.800 and we did the mix and sent it back to 1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:13.440 the UK and it was it was released and amazingly 1:07:13.480 --> 1:07:15.840 got to number three in the UK Singles charts. So 1:07:15.920 --> 1:07:18.360 in fact I had written its single, but it was 1:07:18.640 --> 1:07:21.640 one of those silly things. I was just bluffing, just 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:24.000 fooling around. But the fact that it was in five 1:07:24.080 --> 1:07:27.479 four time signature it really wasn't a mainstream pop song 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:32.040 was quite gratifying because until that point there's only ever 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.080 been one other top ten hit in five four times signature, 1:07:35.200 --> 1:07:40.560 which was was Dave brew Becks Take five. And so 1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:43.280 it was kind of a nice, nice feeling that you'd 1:07:44.840 --> 1:07:50.880 you brought something relatively new to the world of you know, 1:07:52.720 --> 1:07:56.920 the pop music charts and music TV because it was 1:07:56.960 --> 1:08:01.200 on top of the pop sore famous um uh weekly 1:08:01.240 --> 1:08:06.120 television show that did the latest pop music stuff. So 1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:08.880 that's how that worked out, and the stand up did 1:08:08.920 --> 1:08:11.920 did pretty well and and in its own right, it 1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:16.880 paved the way for what came next. Okay, but staying 1:08:16.920 --> 1:08:18.960 with the second album for a minute, my favorite song 1:08:19.040 --> 1:08:22.160 you have such an incredible memory. I look into the 1:08:22.240 --> 1:08:26.559 Sun come about. I'd rather think it was something I'm 1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:27.960 not sure where it was on a guitar or where 1:08:27.960 --> 1:08:30.000 the fiddling around with the Hammond organ. It was in 1:08:30.040 --> 1:08:33.679 the studio that I've got this really simple little line 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:37.680 and it was just meant to be a song about optimism, 1:08:38.560 --> 1:08:43.200 um optimism and perhaps in the face of some adversity. 1:08:43.280 --> 1:08:48.479 It was a very simple, you know, cheerful, quietly upbeat 1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:53.360 song that didn't strike me as it was, you know, 1:08:53.439 --> 1:08:55.600 so important to the album as a whole, compared to 1:08:55.640 --> 1:08:58.320 songs like a New Day Yesterday for example, which I 1:08:58.360 --> 1:09:01.160 knew it was a power, a full song, and the 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:04.439 worlds like for a Thousand Mothers and things that were 1:09:04.560 --> 1:09:08.519 a bit more animated, and we're look into the sums 1:09:08.560 --> 1:09:11.880 that you know, gentle placid piece. There are two or 1:09:11.880 --> 1:09:17.879 three like that on it that were gentle um reasons 1:09:17.880 --> 1:09:19.760 for waiting I think was another one that was a 1:09:19.880 --> 1:09:23.679 similar sort of a feel. So yeah, it was just 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:27.080 just trying to bring something in the way of dynamic 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:30.360 range into the broad context of rock music, so it 1:09:30.400 --> 1:09:33.400 didn't all have to be crash, bang wallop with drums 1:09:33.400 --> 1:09:36.000 and bass pounding away on everything you could, you could, 1:09:36.760 --> 1:09:38.360 you could do things that are a little bit more 1:09:40.040 --> 1:09:46.040 varied and musically a little den less dense, and you know, 1:09:46.120 --> 1:09:50.360 had different dynamics. And perhaps in the case of a 1:09:50.400 --> 1:09:53.880 song like that, it was giving me the opportunity to 1:09:53.960 --> 1:09:55.880 not have to pretend to be a rock singer, which 1:09:55.920 --> 1:10:03.320 I've never felt terribly able to do. Um, So I 1:10:03.320 --> 1:10:05.759 could just sing it in a relatively quiet, easy voice, 1:10:05.840 --> 1:10:18.439 and it was nice to do something relaxed. Okay, so 1:10:18.479 --> 1:10:22.240 the next album, let's talk about it from an outside perspective. 1:10:22.960 --> 1:10:27.040 Many critics felt that the first album was best, needless 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:30.120 to say, that was a sound, a different sound. Second 1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:34.679 album great reviews. Now for people who are younger today, 1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:36.800 they will need not even understand the power of the 1:10:36.880 --> 1:10:41.400 rock press. But that meant something back then. Third album 1:10:41.640 --> 1:10:47.400 commercial breakthrough. But from the perspective of those paying attention, 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:52.880 it seemed a little bit more obvious, less cerebral, less internal, 1:10:53.400 --> 1:10:56.080 and more on the surface. And of course you had 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:58.760 to cry you a song, which was a legendary riff song. 1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:03.559 So just to what degree was this premeditated or those 1:11:03.600 --> 1:11:05.479 on the outside are making this all up and you 1:11:05.560 --> 1:11:10.160 just cut a record? Well, it was very much a 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:13.439 reflection of being on tour in America in sixty nine 1:11:13.840 --> 1:11:18.240 when we'd you know, we we we were just just 1:11:18.400 --> 1:11:20.760 making our presence felt. You know. We played in few 1:11:20.800 --> 1:11:22.720 clubs and we've been an opening act on a few 1:11:22.800 --> 1:11:29.080 theater shows. Um. But with the benefit album, it was written, 1:11:29.479 --> 1:11:30.920 most of it was written when I got back to 1:11:30.920 --> 1:11:34.040 the UK, but it did reflect on that what was 1:11:34.080 --> 1:11:38.759 a sometimes a rather dark experience of being in the USA. 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.679 Suddenly we were either headlining and modest venues on our own, 1:11:42.760 --> 1:11:45.160 but we were traveling a lot and spending a lot 1:11:45.160 --> 1:11:49.240 of time away from home, and and I I think 1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:53.519 it's it's much of it is. It's rather darker in 1:11:53.680 --> 1:11:57.400 musical terms, not in a negative way, but it just 1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.479 it just reflects the perhaps some of the ice elations, 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:05.679 some of the cultural confusion that comes out of visiting 1:12:05.680 --> 1:12:10.040 another country and then finding that after the first initial 1:12:11.240 --> 1:12:14.560 getting to know it, suddenly you begin to realize that 1:12:15.320 --> 1:12:18.640 we don't really necessarily fit in and just feel a 1:12:18.640 --> 1:12:23.360 little I felt out of place increasingly in in in 1:12:23.360 --> 1:12:26.200 in American culture. Glenn are bass player. You know, he 1:12:26.240 --> 1:12:28.439 loved America. He love he just loved everything about it. 1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:30.040 He was a party guy. You know, he just had 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:32.280 made lots of friends and went out at night and 1:12:32.920 --> 1:12:36.400 you know he had a great time. But Martin Barr 1:12:36.439 --> 1:12:39.960 and Clive and myself, you know, we were kind of loaners. 1:12:40.000 --> 1:12:41.479 You know, we just go back to the hotel room, 1:12:41.520 --> 1:12:46.760 read a book, watchum. Dick Cavert was here around there. 1:12:47.680 --> 1:12:49.160 But it was that it was that sort of era, 1:12:49.280 --> 1:12:51.519 you know, where you just you picked up on American culture, 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:55.080 but you you did it in a slightly more vicarious way. 1:12:55.120 --> 1:12:57.519 You know, you saw it from as an observer and 1:12:58.120 --> 1:13:01.400 picked up things from television and media and the newspapers 1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:06.960 and Smiley's a New York delicate testament that did the biggest, 1:13:08.120 --> 1:13:15.080 the biggest Um, chicken liver sandwich is known to mankind 1:13:16.000 --> 1:13:21.280 and child strawberry malted milkshakes. A guy with Martin Barren, 1:13:21.880 --> 1:13:25.400 who are starving Hungary, we managed to scrap between us 1:13:25.400 --> 1:13:28.679 a few dollars together, and we we bought. We bought 1:13:28.720 --> 1:13:34.639 these enormous wedges of chicken liver sandwich and salad dressing 1:13:34.680 --> 1:13:39.160 and lettuce and tomato and all the trimmings, and and 1:13:39.160 --> 1:13:43.360 then these huge pots of strawberry malted milkshake. Went back 1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:48.000 to our horrible hotel and ate ourselves into a stupor 1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:56.320 having gorged on entirely unhealthy food. But those are the 1:13:56.360 --> 1:13:59.599 sort of the amusing moments and what was otherwise quite 1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:03.160 often a other a bit depressing in a way for 1:14:03.280 --> 1:14:05.599 those of us who were missing being at home. You know, 1:14:05.680 --> 1:14:08.080 we don't suddenly we were getting noticed and we were 1:14:08.560 --> 1:14:10.760 not famous, but you know, people knew who we were, 1:14:11.280 --> 1:14:14.760 but we made us he feel even more sort of displaced, 1:14:14.840 --> 1:14:17.000 and I think some of that came out in the album. 1:14:17.400 --> 1:14:19.400 But you know, an important part of it was I 1:14:19.439 --> 1:14:22.719 remember being in in the USA at the time when 1:14:23.280 --> 1:14:28.200 when Buzz and Neil walked on the Moon and and 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:31.600 Michael Collins, who didn't and was in charge of the 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:33.920 the command module. You know, I decided that was worthy 1:14:33.960 --> 1:14:36.519 of a song was to write about Michael Collins being 1:14:36.800 --> 1:14:38.920 the guy who didn't get to go to the moon 1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:42.840 or step onto the moon, and the awful position that 1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:46.000 he would have been in. And I'm sure it was 1:14:46.080 --> 1:14:49.439 well planned for, and the eventuality that Neil and Buzz 1:14:49.520 --> 1:14:53.080 either landing didn't made it back or crashed in the 1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:56.720 first place, and Michael Collins had to return home to 1:14:56.800 --> 1:14:59.160 Earth alone. He would have been the most vilified and 1:14:59.200 --> 1:15:02.920 hated person on the planet. And but that was his gig, 1:15:03.000 --> 1:15:04.680 that was the job, that's what he signed up for, 1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:09.880 and I always felt it was rather a touching experience. Oddly, 1:15:09.920 --> 1:15:13.240 my son in law played Michael Collins in a in 1:15:13.280 --> 1:15:18.320 a movie about the moon landing many years later. Not 1:15:18.400 --> 1:15:20.920 a fame, not not a highly successful movie, but he 1:15:20.960 --> 1:15:24.000 did play Michael Collins. Was a curious um. We had 1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:26.120 to do all of his research about Michael Collins and 1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:30.960 everything to do with that. That that that journey, but 1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:34.200 that that was one of the moments I do remember 1:15:34.280 --> 1:15:39.000 being an America and feeling really sort of enraptured with 1:15:39.280 --> 1:15:43.040 the whole the whole thing about America and Space Race. 1:15:43.120 --> 1:15:46.080 It was. It was a you got really caught up in. 1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:49.840 It was very exciting being there at that time and 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:52.240 at the same at the same time turning down the 1:15:52.240 --> 1:15:54.719 opportunity to go and play at Woodstock, which was pretty 1:15:54.800 --> 1:15:58.080 much around the same time of the year, along with 1:15:58.160 --> 1:16:01.320 Led Zeppelin, who also decided not to take up the 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:04.280 invitation to go to Woodstock. And what was the thinking there, 1:16:04.880 --> 1:16:06.679 I don't know what they're thinking was, but I would 1:16:06.720 --> 1:16:09.599 imagine Peter Grant might have had the same view as 1:16:09.640 --> 1:16:11.880 I do, which was we didn't want to get tarnished 1:16:12.560 --> 1:16:14.880 with the brush of the dying embers of the hippie 1:16:14.920 --> 1:16:18.400 era and you know, sort of a naked drug taking 1:16:19.240 --> 1:16:23.680 massid throng of people who were you know, falling over 1:16:23.720 --> 1:16:27.559 themselves to um love the music of ten years after, 1:16:27.600 --> 1:16:31.320 who were forever stuck with that Woodstock appearance for the 1:16:31.360 --> 1:16:34.800 rest of their lives to this day. Um, it's what 1:16:34.880 --> 1:16:38.320 people remember ten years after four. Leo Lyons, the bass player, 1:16:38.800 --> 1:16:40.960 when I met him a few years ago on some 1:16:41.080 --> 1:16:44.800 festival that we were playing at, and and he just 1:16:44.840 --> 1:16:46.680 come off stage and I said, oh, what, what what? What? 1:16:46.680 --> 1:16:49.040 What did you play tonight? Lee? Or what's the set 1:16:49.040 --> 1:16:51.080 list taped to the side of his guitar And I 1:16:51.160 --> 1:16:52.680 leaned over to look at it, and he said, oh, 1:16:52.680 --> 1:16:56.720 it's just the usual set list. And I said that 1:16:57.120 --> 1:16:59.880 that wasn't the set list just for tonight. He said, no, 1:17:00.000 --> 1:17:02.560 that's been taped to my guitar since nine nine we 1:17:02.600 --> 1:17:05.599 played at Woodstock, So you have no regrets for not 1:17:05.640 --> 1:17:08.120 playing No, No, I think we're way too early for us. 1:17:08.160 --> 1:17:11.040 We were we were we were not yet fully formed, 1:17:11.120 --> 1:17:14.559 and we were just you know, we needed time, We 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:20.120 needed time to develop and become a little more mature musically, 1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:23.519 and it would have been awful if we If we'd 1:17:23.520 --> 1:17:25.439 gone on, we probably would have done really well. You know, 1:17:25.439 --> 1:17:27.680 people were like, wow, is that band even better than 1:17:27.720 --> 1:17:30.519 ten years after? But it was too early for us. 1:17:30.680 --> 1:17:34.000 I mean I came for the who they were on, 1:17:34.479 --> 1:17:37.360 but they were already established. They knew what they were doing, 1:17:37.439 --> 1:17:40.080 that who were the who they were, They had a repertoire, 1:17:40.120 --> 1:17:43.160 they had an identity. But Jethro Tell was just an 1:17:43.160 --> 1:17:46.760 embryonic finding our way sort of a bunch of young 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:50.280 guys who weren't sure what they were going to do. Um. 1:17:50.360 --> 1:17:52.479 So it would have been way too early to achieve 1:17:52.520 --> 1:17:56.840 any kind of mass exposure and any sudden success. It 1:17:56.960 --> 1:17:59.280 was much better just to step step back into the 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:03.800 shadows and meet up with the Zepps and be their 1:18:03.880 --> 1:18:06.760 opening act for a few more shows. That was better 1:18:06.960 --> 1:18:11.519 learning process for me than confronting a bunch of naked 1:18:12.120 --> 1:18:17.640 um hippies. So you talk about being somewhat of a 1:18:17.680 --> 1:18:21.080 loner being in the hotel room, reading this is an 1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:25.920 error when backstage in rock life was really exotic. So 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:28.840 when it comes to drugs and groupies. That was not 1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:32.800 your experience personally. You just were who you were, and 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:35.160 you took it on the road. Well. As I was 1:18:35.160 --> 1:18:37.640 a little bit terrified about drugs. I mean, it's not 1:18:37.960 --> 1:18:40.160 it's not a sort of moral position. It's just that 1:18:40.280 --> 1:18:44.639 I saw so many people, you know, clearly not doing 1:18:44.680 --> 1:18:48.200 themselves any favors as a result of taking drugs, and 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:52.479 you know, it's, um, it scared me. You know, Frank 1:18:52.560 --> 1:18:56.000 Laddis didn't really want to take that risk. I was. 1:18:56.280 --> 1:18:58.760 I smoked a lot of cigarettes back in those days, 1:18:58.760 --> 1:19:03.080 so I assumed that my tendency to have an addictive 1:19:03.080 --> 1:19:06.800 personality was such that if I ended up, you know, 1:19:06.840 --> 1:19:10.600 smoking marijuana, I'd probably be doing it most of the 1:19:10.640 --> 1:19:12.439 hours of the day. Wouldn't be something I would just 1:19:13.120 --> 1:19:15.479 you know, do once or twice a week, it would 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:17.880 be I would I was terrified it would it would 1:19:17.920 --> 1:19:21.160 take hold of me as a cigarette smoking did. And 1:19:21.240 --> 1:19:24.479 so I never did any of that, and which got 1:19:24.520 --> 1:19:27.360 me the reputation being a party pooper, because you know, 1:19:27.360 --> 1:19:30.719 if you didn't go to you know, let Zeppelin's rhoadies 1:19:30.760 --> 1:19:32.799 decided to put on a party and we got invited 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:34.720 and I didn't show up, you know, everybody thought, oh, 1:19:34.880 --> 1:19:39.040 he's you know, he's he's a snob, he's you know, 1:19:39.080 --> 1:19:42.360 he's some arrogant doesn't want to join in and be 1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:45.080 one of the boys. But I was afraid to be 1:19:45.120 --> 1:19:49.160 one of the boys. And I I was uncomfortable with 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:53.400 the you know, with the sex, drugs and rock and 1:19:53.479 --> 1:19:55.120 roll bit. I mean, the rock and roll bit was 1:19:55.160 --> 1:19:57.880 sort of okay, you know, it was it was a living, 1:19:58.880 --> 1:20:01.280 but the sex and the drug it's were a bit terrifying, 1:20:01.320 --> 1:20:04.400 you know, because even then we knew that. But you know, 1:20:04.400 --> 1:20:07.439 there were some pretty nasty strains of gonorrhea going around, 1:20:07.479 --> 1:20:11.240 and girls were quite frightening to me, you know, because 1:20:11.240 --> 1:20:16.400 they were they were very um forward in their behavior 1:20:16.520 --> 1:20:26.400 into quiet withdrawn um English boys who perhaps were you know, 1:20:26.840 --> 1:20:28.479 not not used to these sort of things. You know, 1:20:28.479 --> 1:20:31.559 they're very forward and confident nature of a lot of 1:20:31.600 --> 1:20:38.040 American young females. They you know, they were quite frightening really. 1:20:38.120 --> 1:20:41.960 So I didn't really go in that direction. It wasn't 1:20:42.000 --> 1:20:45.559 something that's um yeah, you know, I'm sure I had 1:20:45.560 --> 1:20:49.880 a a few relationships, short term and otherwise with with 1:20:49.880 --> 1:20:51.840 with girls when I was in my twenties, but it 1:20:51.960 --> 1:20:53.800 just wasn't the big thing for me. I was never 1:20:54.840 --> 1:20:58.160 lured into that kind of party behavior and the the 1:20:58.160 --> 1:21:02.120 one night stands and the you know, the whole rock 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:07.960 and roll excess things. It seemed everybody else was doing it, 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:10.360 So I suppose that was a good reason for me 1:21:10.400 --> 1:21:13.000 not to do it. I just I prefer to try 1:21:13.000 --> 1:21:17.800 and you know, be different, do my own thing. So 1:21:17.840 --> 1:21:20.280 I read a lot of books, and I watched a 1:21:20.280 --> 1:21:24.880 lot of late night talk shows, and I read the newspapers, 1:21:24.920 --> 1:21:27.640 and I tried to use the time in a constructive 1:21:27.680 --> 1:21:31.479 way rather than not be able to remember the next 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:33.880 morning what I'd done the night before, which is something 1:21:33.920 --> 1:21:37.360 that's just befallen many bass players in just Hotel, they 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:39.599 all seemed to be the party guys. The bass players, 1:21:39.640 --> 1:21:42.599 they they all seem to be the ones who wanted 1:21:42.600 --> 1:21:45.439 to go and have a good time. And I know, 1:21:45.560 --> 1:21:48.799 and at least one case, his idea of a really, really, 1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:51.280 really good time was when he couldn't remember anything that 1:21:51.320 --> 1:21:53.760 happened from the end of the show until coming to 1:21:53.800 --> 1:21:56.479 sound check the next day. It was just just a 1:21:56.520 --> 1:22:00.320 complete blank in his mind. Um so he could he 1:22:00.439 --> 1:22:02.240 measured having a good time by the fact that he 1:22:02.240 --> 1:22:05.160 couldn't remember it, which to me seems utterly ridiculous that 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:07.760 why have a good time and then you can't remember it? 1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:09.639 I mean, I want to save them my good times 1:22:09.680 --> 1:22:12.760 and recall them for years to come, not have them 1:22:12.800 --> 1:22:18.920 fade into some deep abyss of of what did I 1:22:18.960 --> 1:22:22.360 do last night? And you know why have I now? 1:22:22.479 --> 1:22:25.920 You know these nasty scars or cuts on my face 1:22:26.040 --> 1:22:27.720 or my heir or my arms because I got in 1:22:27.800 --> 1:22:31.240 the fight off, you fell down a fire escape, or 1:22:32.720 --> 1:22:35.400 on one occasion, somebody who should be nameless trying to 1:22:35.439 --> 1:22:41.640 flush himself down a toilet. True story, I personally rescued him. 1:22:41.680 --> 1:22:44.599 I mean he was going to going nowhere, obviously, but 1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:47.800 he was in the toilet bowl, yanking on the chain, 1:22:47.920 --> 1:22:52.479 try and determined to end it all. So I drank 1:22:52.600 --> 1:22:56.960 him out. And is it an airport? And I got 1:22:57.040 --> 1:23:03.000 him on the plane soaking wet. But no, we weren't. 1:23:03.040 --> 1:23:05.960 We weren't no names to be mentioned. In fact, forget 1:23:06.000 --> 1:23:08.880 that I even said any of that. I just made 1:23:08.920 --> 1:23:11.680 it up. It's not a true story. Who came up 1:23:11.760 --> 1:23:13.880 with and how did you create the riff for to 1:23:14.000 --> 1:23:18.000 cry of a song? Well, I have to credit the 1:23:18.080 --> 1:23:21.080 people who worked in that kind of Vein. I mean, 1:23:21.160 --> 1:23:23.920 Eric Clapton and Cream had already come and gone by 1:23:24.000 --> 1:23:26.760 then in the sense of Cream being a not a 1:23:26.800 --> 1:23:30.400 direct influence, but they were the the obvious precursors to 1:23:30.479 --> 1:23:35.440 Led Zeppelin and Jeth Retell arriving on American shores. Cream 1:23:36.880 --> 1:23:39.519 did you know, after the after Homer's Home Is Dave 1:23:39.600 --> 1:23:43.519 Clark five, the Beatles, then the Cream were the next 1:23:43.520 --> 1:23:48.280 big thing. They just stampeded across the country being this amazing, 1:23:48.720 --> 1:23:53.960 doing it on their own terms, not not not not 1:23:54.080 --> 1:23:56.400 in any way fitting into any mold. And that's why 1:23:56.439 --> 1:24:00.439 America loved Cream because they quite clearly really did care 1:24:00.520 --> 1:24:02.479 whether you like them or not. They were going to 1:24:02.600 --> 1:24:04.320 do what they did when they got on the stage, 1:24:04.439 --> 1:24:07.000 and if you didn't like it fair enough, if you 1:24:07.080 --> 1:24:09.439 did like it, then you know, thanks will take the 1:24:09.439 --> 1:24:12.640 money and run. So Cream were the first example of 1:24:12.680 --> 1:24:15.360 that kind of hit and run band who really didn't 1:24:15.360 --> 1:24:17.719 care whether you like them or not. And when Zeppelin 1:24:17.800 --> 1:24:19.920 came in, it was just the same. They gave that 1:24:20.000 --> 1:24:23.400 impression they were there doing this for them. It was 1:24:23.560 --> 1:24:27.240 very hedonistic, very self serving, and they really didn't care 1:24:27.240 --> 1:24:29.960 whether you like them or not. And I probably picked 1:24:30.040 --> 1:24:31.439 up on a bit of that. I think in the 1:24:31.439 --> 1:24:34.719 early days of jethro Tell and you know, it seemed 1:24:34.760 --> 1:24:40.080 to be what Americans generally speaking, seemed to seem to 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:45.719 really be drawn towards people who didn't try to appeal, 1:24:45.880 --> 1:24:49.559 they didn't try too hard to be liked. They sort 1:24:49.600 --> 1:24:54.080 of recognized the genuine and the honest nature of bands 1:24:54.120 --> 1:24:57.720 who just came and did their thing, whereas there there 1:24:57.720 --> 1:25:00.800 were others who desperately wanted to be successful in the 1:25:00.880 --> 1:25:03.479 USA because that was the big prize, was to be 1:25:03.560 --> 1:25:07.320 a hit in the USA, and they conspicuously tried too hard, 1:25:08.160 --> 1:25:11.800 and the American audiences seemed to see through that and 1:25:11.800 --> 1:25:16.639 reject them as some as wanting it too badly. Um, 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:19.439 so I guess they came across across maybe as being 1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:24.880 you know, not genuine again mentioning no names, but we 1:25:25.000 --> 1:25:26.679 you know, we we had a few bands who period 1:25:26.680 --> 1:25:28.599 with us, who tried too hard and didn't do well 1:25:28.640 --> 1:25:32.800 at all. Um, but we didn't really care that much. 1:25:33.120 --> 1:25:36.160 So the next step is actually, sorry, I'm mentioning. Yeah, 1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:37.800 you asked me about to cry, And so it was 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:40.519 really it was a kind of a post cream. Eric Clapton, 1:25:40.560 --> 1:25:43.200 who in a band called Blind Faith and then and 1:25:43.240 --> 1:25:45.080 they Eat had a couple of good riffs in that, 1:25:45.160 --> 1:25:49.519 and I guess I took that as a not hopefully 1:25:49.560 --> 1:25:51.400 not to copy it, but just just to take as 1:25:51.439 --> 1:25:55.320 an example something that was a repetitive riff. And and 1:25:55.360 --> 1:25:57.280 to cry your song was was very much in the 1:25:57.400 --> 1:26:01.120 style of Eric Clapton at the time of Blind Faith. 1:26:02.160 --> 1:26:04.439 There's a song I can't remember what it's called, Dad 1:26:04.479 --> 1:26:09.519 da da da da da da da da duh. Yeah, well, 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:11.439 it's it's that kind of a thing, you know, it's 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:15.759 the monophonic guitar riff on the lowest strings. And Martin 1:26:15.760 --> 1:26:18.200 would sometimes lend me his electric guitar so I could 1:26:18.240 --> 1:26:21.519 write songs and and you know, come up with that 1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:25.280 sort of thing. So the next step is aqualon you 1:26:25.360 --> 1:26:28.960 create it. Do you have any idea how big it 1:26:29.000 --> 1:26:31.880 will be? Sometimes, you know, people say I was totally 1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:33.519 close to other people say, as soon as it sits, 1:26:33.600 --> 1:26:37.679 the market's gonna go Guard Gangewin suddenly Jeff Road tall 1:26:37.720 --> 1:26:41.920 as big as they were before Everywhere headline arenas did 1:26:41.960 --> 1:26:47.120 you anticipate that well. On the last day of mixing 1:26:47.200 --> 1:26:50.439 the album, um, which had been a bit of a 1:26:50.479 --> 1:26:52.840 tortious experience because it was a brand new studio that 1:26:52.880 --> 1:26:57.000 Island Records had just built conversion from an old church 1:26:57.080 --> 1:27:00.799 and in London, and there are a lot of technical problems, 1:27:00.840 --> 1:27:03.960 teething problems with the studio that Zeppelin were in. The 1:27:04.360 --> 1:27:06.280 in the same studio where they were in the crypt 1:27:06.360 --> 1:27:07.960 of the of the church, which was a much more 1:27:07.960 --> 1:27:11.680 compact and nicer sounding room to work in. We were 1:27:11.680 --> 1:27:13.479 in the main body of the church. It was just 1:27:13.680 --> 1:27:19.879 echoing and horrible and cold and strange atmosphere and technically 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:21.720 a lot of problems. So it wasn't you know, I 1:27:21.720 --> 1:27:24.840 wasn't really sure what we had. I mean songs, you know, 1:27:24.880 --> 1:27:27.120 I felt fairly confident about most of the songs, but 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:30.640 sonically in terms of the end result, I was, you know, 1:27:30.680 --> 1:27:35.719 a little worried about it. And John Evans, the keyboard player, 1:27:35.720 --> 1:27:38.519 and I we went we've been working all night and 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:41.200 we went out to in the early hours of the 1:27:41.240 --> 1:27:45.559 morning to some little cafe that served taxi drivers and 1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:49.280 off duty policeman and things with a hot breakfast at 1:27:49.600 --> 1:27:52.240 four o'clock in the morning or something. So we sat 1:27:52.280 --> 1:27:54.760 in this place and I remember sitting there, we were 1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.680 eating some breakfast and dead tired, just you know, we're 1:27:57.680 --> 1:27:59.559 going to go straight to bed, home to bed after that. 1:27:59.640 --> 1:28:04.080 And I said to John, what do you think, you know, what, 1:28:04.080 --> 1:28:05.680 what do you think we've got here? Is it? Is 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:07.360 it going to work? And he looked at me as 1:28:07.400 --> 1:28:10.160 I don't know. I said, no, I don't know either. 1:28:10.800 --> 1:28:14.720 And you know, I remember that definite feeling of being 1:28:14.720 --> 1:28:17.400 a little nervous that it was either going to be 1:28:17.479 --> 1:28:20.320 the beginning of the end or it could be the 1:28:20.360 --> 1:28:24.080 beginning of the next sort of step up the ladder. 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:27.600 And I really had no idea. And we delivered the 1:28:27.600 --> 1:28:30.160 record of the record company, and you know, it was 1:28:30.280 --> 1:28:35.000 Julie pressed and put out and some media response, but 1:28:35.080 --> 1:28:36.800 it wasn't huge. You know, I have to say, there 1:28:36.880 --> 1:28:41.040 wasn't a out of the box. It didn't set everybody 1:28:41.040 --> 1:28:44.559 on fire, you know, it was it was okay, it 1:28:44.800 --> 1:28:48.680 is so pretty well. And some of the music on 1:28:48.720 --> 1:28:53.879 the album, I suppose Aqualung song My God for example, 1:28:53.920 --> 1:28:59.200 that they were and Locomotive Breath. In Europe particularly, they 1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:03.400 made an impact acts um, partly because the subject matter 1:29:03.439 --> 1:29:09.160 and partly because of the music. But it was doing okay, 1:29:09.800 --> 1:29:13.760 but nowhere near what it became over the next two 1:29:13.840 --> 1:29:17.000 or three years when it gradually with us performing more 1:29:17.040 --> 1:29:19.120 shows and different parts of the world and bringing out 1:29:19.120 --> 1:29:22.400 new albums aqual and continued to sell at at a 1:29:22.479 --> 1:29:27.559 very steady and generous pace. And um, and I suppose 1:29:27.800 --> 1:29:32.960 more than anything else, became the the archetypal jethro Tyle record, 1:29:33.240 --> 1:29:35.960 not only of the seventies but of all time, and 1:29:35.960 --> 1:29:39.559 in many ways because it was a mixture of rock music, 1:29:39.880 --> 1:29:45.920 of gentle acoustic music, of quirky, you know, fun music, 1:29:46.080 --> 1:29:52.639 and strange, really very insular and gentle moments that were 1:29:52.760 --> 1:29:56.240 sort of singer songwriters stuff. It was a mixture of 1:29:56.320 --> 1:29:59.080 music in terms of dynamic range and musical style, and 1:29:59.439 --> 1:30:02.280 I think that, um, you know, that was part of 1:30:02.280 --> 1:30:08.040 what gave it an identity. That's people probably didn't like 1:30:08.080 --> 1:30:10.360 every song on the album, but the doubtless there were 1:30:10.360 --> 1:30:13.479 people who really loved the acoustic songs and weren't that 1:30:13.680 --> 1:30:17.040 struck with the loud rock ones and vice versa. But 1:30:17.439 --> 1:30:20.959 there was something in there perhaps for a broad spectrum 1:30:21.000 --> 1:30:27.559 of listeners. And it's certainly kind of broke open all 1:30:27.560 --> 1:30:30.360 of the European territories for us because we hadn't we 1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:33.519 spent too much time playing in the USA and the UK, 1:30:33.680 --> 1:30:35.720 and it was really with Aqua Lung that we were 1:30:36.120 --> 1:30:39.439 then playing frequently, giving equal time to all the European 1:30:39.439 --> 1:30:42.080 countries where we could perform, and that it really took 1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:45.559 off broadly in Europe as well, in Spain and Italy 1:30:45.600 --> 1:30:48.639 and France and Germany, and so we were we were 1:30:48.680 --> 1:30:52.719 becoming quite international really at that point in terms of 1:30:53.320 --> 1:30:55.960 not being the biggest band on planet Earth, but being 1:30:56.400 --> 1:31:00.360 you know, one of the you know, one of the 1:31:00.360 --> 1:31:04.559 the lesser but sort of well known and appreciated groups 1:31:04.600 --> 1:31:08.400 that were not mainstream in terms of the rock music 1:31:08.439 --> 1:31:11.320 that was the most successful and popular. So we were 1:31:11.320 --> 1:31:21.280 doing doing okay. So the next albums thick as a brick. 1:31:21.840 --> 1:31:25.799 To what degree was that premeditated I'm talking about music 1:31:26.160 --> 1:31:28.840 one long piece? And to what degree was it just 1:31:28.960 --> 1:31:31.040 kind of a lark, let's just do something different. Well, 1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:34.280 it was both of those things. It was predicated really 1:31:34.280 --> 1:31:39.680 on the fact that Aqualung had a few songs that 1:31:39.840 --> 1:31:45.240 maybe kind of tied together a little bit um and 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:47.479 and then the packaging and the album cover and the 1:31:47.520 --> 1:31:50.479 way that the album was sequenced on side one and 1:31:50.520 --> 1:31:53.280 side two along with the liner notes. I tried to 1:31:53.840 --> 1:31:57.000 bring a bunch of rather disparate songs and music styles, 1:31:57.200 --> 1:31:59.200 try and bring them together a bit with the with 1:31:59.360 --> 1:32:02.960 them with artwork and packaging, which would sort of draw 1:32:03.040 --> 1:32:07.640 things together a bit, even if they didn't deserve it. 1:32:09.120 --> 1:32:10.880 And I think that gave people the impression this was 1:32:10.920 --> 1:32:14.439 a concept album, which it really wasn't. And ill from 1:32:14.439 --> 1:32:16.519 the word go, I said, this is not a concept album. 1:32:16.560 --> 1:32:20.080 There's a bunch of songs, you know, but music critics 1:32:20.080 --> 1:32:24.640 and writers were determined to perpetuate this idea that it 1:32:24.680 --> 1:32:30.400 was a concept album. So naturally I came to start 1:32:30.439 --> 1:32:33.320 work on another album and thought, right, well, they thought 1:32:33.360 --> 1:32:35.519 that was a concept album, Let's give them the mother 1:32:35.560 --> 1:32:39.519 of all concept albums and go completely over the top 1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:43.800 in a you know, in a very exaggerated way. And 1:32:43.880 --> 1:32:47.920 I just thought of this kind of parody really of 1:32:48.000 --> 1:32:52.479 concept albums, prog rock, you know, pretending it being written 1:32:52.479 --> 1:32:58.719 by an eight year old boy, and and and writing 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:03.519 an album through the through the eyes of childhood, but 1:33:03.560 --> 1:33:07.360 a childhood distorted by the post war years of growing 1:33:07.400 --> 1:33:11.719 up with a lot of prejudices and views that came 1:33:11.760 --> 1:33:14.800 down to a young generation of people from that postwar 1:33:15.840 --> 1:33:21.960 derision of our of our opponents, and you know, we 1:33:21.960 --> 1:33:25.679 we talked about Jerry as the un We talked about 1:33:25.720 --> 1:33:28.840 the Japs. You know, we we were we were taught 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:34.559 to be really rather unpleasant and rather right wing, nasty 1:33:34.560 --> 1:33:37.720 little children, and we didn't turn out that way. But 1:33:37.800 --> 1:33:39.519 you know that that was what came down, that that 1:33:39.600 --> 1:33:44.800 was the sort of general tenor of children's comics and literature. 1:33:44.840 --> 1:33:47.560 You know, we it was reinforcing a lot of stereotypes 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:49.000 that I think we could have done with that. But 1:33:49.080 --> 1:33:52.479 on the other hand, it was mostly a bit of fun. 1:33:52.520 --> 1:33:55.120 And I think most of us just recognized that, well, okay, 1:33:55.200 --> 1:33:58.400 you know, our parents went to war and did all this, 1:33:58.520 --> 1:34:00.679 that that's the way it's that's the way we're being 1:34:00.680 --> 1:34:04.320 handed down that message. But I couldn't help but feel 1:34:04.320 --> 1:34:06.599 that as a child growing up, that you know, you've 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:08.720 got to try to make sense of a difficult world. 1:34:08.720 --> 1:34:10.200 You've got to try and make sense of the things 1:34:10.280 --> 1:34:16.360 that are stereotypical, that are prejudice, that are um perhaps 1:34:16.600 --> 1:34:22.479 adult ideas that are increasingly becoming irrelevant as as time 1:34:22.520 --> 1:34:25.720 goes on. And so I wanted to try and see 1:34:25.800 --> 1:34:28.559 through the eyes of a child making sense of a 1:34:28.600 --> 1:34:31.599 difficult adult world and that's really what the album was about. 1:34:31.640 --> 1:34:34.080 I mean, it's it may seem like, well, it is 1:34:34.120 --> 1:34:36.680 on the one hand, a spoof for parody, a lighthearted 1:34:36.840 --> 1:34:39.120 bit of fun, but it also has a quite a 1:34:39.160 --> 1:34:44.479 serious message lying underlying the whole thing. And I would write, 1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:48.240 um the album in you know that I'd do the 1:34:48.280 --> 1:34:50.800 next three minutes in the morning when I woke up, 1:34:52.000 --> 1:34:54.120 you know, quite early. Usually I start working around eight 1:34:54.200 --> 1:34:55.720 or nine in the morning and write the next three 1:34:55.800 --> 1:34:58.120 or four minutes of music. And then after lunch I 1:34:58.120 --> 1:35:00.360 would go and meet the guys rehearsal room in the 1:35:00.360 --> 1:35:04.840 south of London, in the Rolling Stones rehearsal Room, and 1:35:05.520 --> 1:35:07.599 and then we would add we'd learned what I wrote 1:35:07.600 --> 1:35:10.040 that morning and added to what I've done the day before. 1:35:10.360 --> 1:35:12.479 And so we built up the album over a period 1:35:12.520 --> 1:35:15.439 about ten days of rehearsal so that we could play 1:35:15.479 --> 1:35:17.439 it all the way through. And then we went into 1:35:18.120 --> 1:35:21.320 the recording studio and we played it all the way 1:35:21.320 --> 1:35:24.040 through and took another ten days to record the album, 1:35:24.080 --> 1:35:27.280 and then actually a bit longer to do the album 1:35:27.360 --> 1:35:31.640 cover because it was quite involved and you know, it 1:35:31.680 --> 1:35:35.360 took quite a bit of time putting it all together 1:35:35.439 --> 1:35:37.880 and shooting all the photographs and doing everything. Actually took 1:35:37.920 --> 1:35:39.960 longer to do the album cover than it did to 1:35:40.000 --> 1:35:42.679 record the record, but it was worth it again because 1:35:42.680 --> 1:35:44.759 it was one of those zany ideas. I mean, Terry 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:48.360 our manager, he really didn't like the album covered. Nobody did. 1:35:48.400 --> 1:35:51.879 They thought this was just insane, you know, sixteen page 1:35:51.920 --> 1:35:55.600 newspaper is an album cover and even but he, you know, 1:35:55.680 --> 1:35:57.479 he kind of went along with it, as he did 1:35:57.520 --> 1:36:02.400 with them the first album, and it um, it was 1:36:02.760 --> 1:36:06.320 part and parcel of what made that album, you know, 1:36:06.720 --> 1:36:09.320 kind of stand out from the crowd, And poor old 1:36:09.400 --> 1:36:13.080 John Lennon had embarked upon an album which was released 1:36:13.080 --> 1:36:16.000 shortly afterwards and was already in the works at the 1:36:16.000 --> 1:36:18.120 time when Things as the Brick was released and actually 1:36:18.120 --> 1:36:20.880 went to number one in the American charts, and and 1:36:21.080 --> 1:36:24.320 John Lennon's album, which featured the front cover front page 1:36:24.320 --> 1:36:27.840 of the New York Times, was released shortly afterwards, and 1:36:28.080 --> 1:36:30.679 of course he and his record company must have seen, 1:36:31.439 --> 1:36:33.679 you know, this idea has already been done and out 1:36:33.720 --> 1:36:36.840 there and is bigger and better in the sixteen phays newspaper. 1:36:36.880 --> 1:36:38.600 But you can't pull it, you know, he did that 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:41.919 they had already printed, however, million copies of John Lennon's 1:36:41.960 --> 1:36:45.519 album and the artwork and everything, So it must have 1:36:45.560 --> 1:36:47.479 been quite galling in a way. You know, when you 1:36:47.439 --> 1:36:49.920 you've got an idea, you think, wow, this is good, 1:36:50.200 --> 1:36:53.360 and then somebody's actually beaten you to it and and 1:36:53.680 --> 1:36:56.920 quietly sneaked something out there, and now you're you're the 1:36:57.160 --> 1:37:00.960 you're the imitators and the late most to an idea 1:37:01.040 --> 1:37:03.400 that I think it was very important to the album. 1:37:03.560 --> 1:37:05.759 It was one of the worst John Lennon albums anyway, 1:37:05.840 --> 1:37:07.800 sometime in New York City, So don't worry about it. 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:11.320 But let's talk about that album cover. I asked about 1:37:11.360 --> 1:37:14.640 the standing up on stand up we have because of 1:37:14.720 --> 1:37:20.240 brick rock history is littered with acts bitching about their 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:23.479 label saying they wouldn't let me do it, or they 1:37:23.600 --> 1:37:26.280 let me do it, and I had to eat the price. 1:37:26.800 --> 1:37:31.160 You had a very unique situation and that your managers 1:37:31.240 --> 1:37:36.240 were the record company. Now in America, they were distributed 1:37:36.280 --> 1:37:39.720 by other labels, Warner Brothers Center. By the end of 1:37:39.800 --> 1:37:43.200 the by time you at the eighties, they have their 1:37:43.240 --> 1:37:49.160 own freestanding company. So a number of questions, what did 1:37:49.280 --> 1:37:52.920 Terry Ella's do, What did Chris Wright do? And I 1:37:52.960 --> 1:37:56.800 always felt that Chrysalis was built on the back of 1:37:56.920 --> 1:38:01.840 jeth Row Tall, So I wonder did they acknowledge that 1:38:01.920 --> 1:38:04.240 financially they give you a piece of the company because 1:38:04.680 --> 1:38:07.559 for a long time, Jethro Top was the only successful act. 1:38:07.920 --> 1:38:09.920 So how did it work with you and your managers? 1:38:09.960 --> 1:38:15.519 And the money Molley began when nobody wanted to record 1:38:15.600 --> 1:38:20.920 Jet Hotel back in and Terry's I believe his father's 1:38:21.000 --> 1:38:25.639 bank manager loaned some money and so Terry and Chris 1:38:25.680 --> 1:38:31.000 took the chance and we made the records with borrowed money. 1:38:31.200 --> 1:38:33.439 We had no record company, no deal, and then they 1:38:33.439 --> 1:38:36.439 hawked around the tapes to try and find a deal, 1:38:36.479 --> 1:38:40.840 and eventually Chris BLACKWELLO Island Records took it on and 1:38:40.920 --> 1:38:44.280 um and it was released through Ireland, the first album. 1:38:44.479 --> 1:38:51.200 And and then Terry and Chris had a you know, 1:38:51.200 --> 1:38:53.120 they're a little older than I was, but they were 1:38:53.240 --> 1:38:55.559 learning on their feet, you know, they were learning the job, 1:38:55.680 --> 1:39:00.599 learning about the music industry, and so they ankered after 1:39:00.680 --> 1:39:04.360 not just being agents or managers, but the idea of 1:39:04.400 --> 1:39:07.320 having a record company. And and so crystalis Records was 1:39:07.400 --> 1:39:10.360 born as a label. They were able to renegotiate their 1:39:10.360 --> 1:39:13.160 deal with Island Records in the UK and with Warder 1:39:13.920 --> 1:39:19.000 Warners in the USA, actually with the Reprise label who 1:39:19.000 --> 1:39:22.479 then they got their label copy, but it was still 1:39:23.400 --> 1:39:26.479 marketed and distributed by a major record company in the 1:39:26.720 --> 1:39:29.800 in most most parts of the world, but it was 1:39:30.280 --> 1:39:32.920 it looked like a Crystalist record, and Jethro Tell was 1:39:32.960 --> 1:39:36.960 the first act to be signed to Crystalists. But it 1:39:37.000 --> 1:39:42.160 would be a little bit too generous to say, um, Crystalists, 1:39:42.960 --> 1:39:44.960 it was founded on the back of Jets Hotel or 1:39:45.240 --> 1:39:47.320 you know, there's a bunch of other acts at that point. 1:39:47.360 --> 1:39:50.479 You know, we were all important to Crystalist records and 1:39:51.400 --> 1:39:54.280 who else who else in the sixties early seventies on 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:57.519 Chrystmas had anywhere near the level of success of Jeff 1:39:57.640 --> 1:40:00.439 roll Well ten years after did pretty well to begin with, 1:40:00.600 --> 1:40:03.640 and then procol Harum for example, came along that they 1:40:03.680 --> 1:40:05.800 were quite meaningful, and then a whole bunch of other 1:40:05.840 --> 1:40:10.160 acts um that that passed through the Crystalist ranks over 1:40:10.200 --> 1:40:12.519 the next few years. But you know, sure Jester Hotel 1:40:12.640 --> 1:40:16.920 was important, but i'm you know, I would Christened and 1:40:17.600 --> 1:40:22.680 Terry are both generously said that Obviously Jesstel was very 1:40:22.720 --> 1:40:24.439 important to them at the time, but you know, we 1:40:24.439 --> 1:40:27.000 weren't the only We weren't the only thing. I think 1:40:27.000 --> 1:40:29.840 they would have made it without Jethro Hotel. It's just 1:40:29.920 --> 1:40:34.040 that we that the process was speeded up a little 1:40:34.040 --> 1:40:37.720 by the fact that we were successful enough that Terry 1:40:37.760 --> 1:40:41.240 and Chris could renegotiate the deals. And when they renegotiated 1:40:41.240 --> 1:40:44.800 the deals for higher royalties and different deal structures, they 1:40:44.880 --> 1:40:48.240 passed the benefits of that on to us. You know, 1:40:48.360 --> 1:40:50.760 we we they they volunteered to say, hey, you know, 1:40:50.840 --> 1:40:52.960 you guys, you should get a bigger royalty now, because 1:40:53.000 --> 1:40:55.760 we're getting a bigger royalty, and so they were generously 1:40:56.360 --> 1:40:59.120 took that initiative. And I mean Terry and I were 1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:01.920 always I didn't have so much to do with with 1:41:02.000 --> 1:41:04.320 Chris because he was really more looking after ten years 1:41:04.360 --> 1:41:08.479 after in procol. But Terry was, you know, the one 1:41:08.520 --> 1:41:11.519 focused on our careers, and he and I were always 1:41:11.560 --> 1:41:14.120 butting heads and disagreeing on a whole lot of stuff. 1:41:14.479 --> 1:41:18.040 And sometimes, you know, he won the argument, sometimes I 1:41:18.080 --> 1:41:21.280 won the argument. And I think think as a brick 1:41:21.320 --> 1:41:24.599 album cover as an example of you know, me winning 1:41:24.640 --> 1:41:27.240 the argument. I really think this is what we should do. Terry, 1:41:27.240 --> 1:41:29.920 I think it's going to work. Other times. You know, Terry, 1:41:30.439 --> 1:41:33.000 you know he was he was the one who was 1:41:33.040 --> 1:41:35.920 responsible for the benefit album cover and I wasn't really 1:41:36.000 --> 1:41:38.639 keen on it at all. But you know, okay, Terry, 1:41:39.200 --> 1:41:41.320 if you think this is right, let's do this. And 1:41:41.360 --> 1:41:44.160 I think that was part of the relationship is that 1:41:44.200 --> 1:41:47.360 both of us had our very strong opinions, but we 1:41:47.360 --> 1:41:53.440 were not not averse to having a discussion, however spirited 1:41:53.520 --> 1:41:57.760 and sometimes loud it might be. But you know, we 1:41:57.840 --> 1:42:01.679 we both knew we could picturelate and say okay, let's 1:42:01.680 --> 1:42:03.880 do it your way. And I think that was the 1:42:03.880 --> 1:42:07.479 strength of that relationship that we were both learning as 1:42:07.520 --> 1:42:10.320 we went along. I was learning about the technical issues 1:42:10.320 --> 1:42:13.280 of production and making records. He was learning about the 1:42:13.320 --> 1:42:16.680 business side of not just managing the band, but you know, 1:42:16.920 --> 1:42:19.800 developing a record company. So you know, we got we 1:42:19.800 --> 1:42:23.400 we got absolute can't blanche to do whatever we wanted 1:42:24.160 --> 1:42:29.360 in musical terms, and that those who were involved in 1:42:29.400 --> 1:42:32.960 the marketing and distribution, like Warners or or Ireland or 1:42:33.000 --> 1:42:35.600 then BMG in the US, in in Europe, you know, 1:42:35.680 --> 1:42:38.040 they were just they were there to do a job, 1:42:38.080 --> 1:42:40.240 and they didn't really have any creative saying what we 1:42:40.240 --> 1:42:42.800 were doing. I think Warners might have tried to do 1:42:42.840 --> 1:42:45.800 that in the early days, but they soon accepted that, 1:42:46.360 --> 1:42:48.240 you know, we were selling records and even if they 1:42:48.240 --> 1:42:51.280 didn't quite get it in terms of why they were selling, 1:42:52.080 --> 1:42:56.240 they they went along with it. And and we we 1:42:56.240 --> 1:43:03.600 we never had any any kind of um real uh, 1:43:04.240 --> 1:43:07.120 contentious input from record companies. You know, you quite often 1:43:07.120 --> 1:43:09.200 they had no idea what they were getting to Let 1:43:09.320 --> 1:43:12.640 deliver the master tapes. That was it. And you know, 1:43:12.800 --> 1:43:15.879 Crystal has trusted me to do that, and I trusted 1:43:15.920 --> 1:43:18.200 them to once they've got the master tapes, and I 1:43:18.280 --> 1:43:19.920 trusted them to get on with it and do the 1:43:19.920 --> 1:43:23.080 best job they could in terms of the the commercial 1:43:23.120 --> 1:43:25.559 application of that. That that's the bit they were supposed 1:43:25.560 --> 1:43:27.920 to be good at. Its exactly the same to this day. 1:43:28.000 --> 1:43:30.840 You know, I hand over the master tapes, and when 1:43:30.840 --> 1:43:34.400 it comes to marketing and promotion, I'm a pussycat. I'm 1:43:34.479 --> 1:43:38.200 paying somebody else, you know, effectively to to use their expertise, 1:43:38.240 --> 1:43:44.920 their knowledge and there and the weight of their the 1:43:44.920 --> 1:43:49.479 their authority. In the case of inside out of boutique 1:43:49.520 --> 1:43:53.360 label and owned by Sony Records that we have distributed 1:43:53.400 --> 1:44:00.080 and marketing by Sony effectively, which is an ideal, an 1:44:00.120 --> 1:44:02.120 ideal blend of being with a major, But at the 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:04.000 same time, at the front end we're with a sort 1:44:04.000 --> 1:44:06.759 of boutique label, which is very much like how Chrysalis 1:44:06.840 --> 1:44:10.120 were in the first two or three years. So um, 1:44:10.479 --> 1:44:14.080 you know, things come perhaps full circle in that regard. 1:44:14.800 --> 1:44:18.320 But let's talk about the money needles. Say Chrysalis was 1:44:18.360 --> 1:44:22.760 sold to E M I early nineties, h E M 1:44:22.880 --> 1:44:28.320 I was ultimately sold again broken up at this late date. 1:44:29.479 --> 1:44:32.360 Do you still get royalties for those jeth World Toll 1:44:32.479 --> 1:44:37.120 records in two Did you own the publishing or was 1:44:37.200 --> 1:44:40.439 the publishing split with Chrysalis, And what's the status of 1:44:40.560 --> 1:44:43.960 that today. Well, the royalty rate that we were on 1:44:44.920 --> 1:44:46.760 right at the beginning was a very small one. Is 1:44:46.800 --> 1:44:48.960 better than the Beatles got when they started, but it 1:44:49.040 --> 1:44:52.840 was a pretty small piece of the action. Um, and 1:44:53.000 --> 1:44:58.559 then it was redressed considerably around the time of Thick 1:44:58.600 --> 1:45:00.840 as a Brick where we started, and quite quite a 1:45:00.920 --> 1:45:03.439 meaningful royalty rate at that point. And I was also 1:45:03.520 --> 1:45:05.680 getting paid as a producer because I was the guy 1:45:05.840 --> 1:45:08.519 writing the music and producing the records. I was a 1:45:08.600 --> 1:45:11.439 man in the studio taking on the mantle of all 1:45:11.479 --> 1:45:14.599 of that. By seventy four, I was running the business 1:45:14.720 --> 1:45:17.680 of jet Rotele financially, so I was paying all the 1:45:17.760 --> 1:45:21.479 bills and running it is you know, from a commercial stand. 1:45:21.560 --> 1:45:25.840 But what my company was UM. So we were getting 1:45:26.000 --> 1:45:28.840 a pretty good royalty rate at that point, UM, and 1:45:29.040 --> 1:45:31.320 by I don't know, by the end of the seventies, 1:45:31.400 --> 1:45:33.960 we were on what was probably the you know, the 1:45:34.000 --> 1:45:36.479 kind of highest level of royalty artist royalty rate that 1:45:36.520 --> 1:45:41.240 anybody was getting paid. And Chris and Terry were always 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:44.080 you know, making sure that we were being rewarded in 1:45:44.120 --> 1:45:47.000 the same way as the highest paid artists of the day. 1:45:47.120 --> 1:45:51.120 So our contracts were being renewed and renegotiated and we 1:45:51.200 --> 1:45:53.400 were getting better deals. But you know, it was never 1:45:53.479 --> 1:45:56.320 a subject of no one was being held hostage or anything. 1:45:56.400 --> 1:45:58.920 You know, It was just that I think it was 1:45:59.000 --> 1:46:01.560 recognized that you you were all there to share the 1:46:01.640 --> 1:46:05.360 benefits together, and so you try and be fair about it. UM. 1:46:05.880 --> 1:46:07.920 But the publishing side of it, you know, originally was 1:46:08.479 --> 1:46:13.280 published you know, it's Chrystalis Publishing. And then along the way, 1:46:13.360 --> 1:46:18.519 Crystalis UM went into the publishing side with BMG, So 1:46:18.600 --> 1:46:21.960 it was Christmas BMG and then um, and then it 1:46:22.000 --> 1:46:24.479 became just BMG, which is just to day. And I'm 1:46:25.120 --> 1:46:28.720 I'm still published by BMG at the same rate as 1:46:28.760 --> 1:46:30.880 it was when I was published by in the latter 1:46:31.000 --> 1:46:35.479 days of crystalis so um, you know, without without without 1:46:35.520 --> 1:46:37.600 going into the percentage terms, it's about as high as 1:46:37.640 --> 1:46:39.880 you can get. That comes to me, and they get 1:46:40.000 --> 1:46:43.000 the sort of you know what I suppose is for 1:46:43.360 --> 1:46:47.599 probably fairly standard in the business for people of our statue. Um. 1:46:48.080 --> 1:46:50.040 So yes, I mean I owned the publishing and I 1:46:50.880 --> 1:46:53.680 that was in the days of Terry and Chris. You know, 1:46:53.760 --> 1:46:55.840 they said, well you should own your own publishing. It's 1:46:55.880 --> 1:46:58.479 that you're writing all these songs. And you know, if 1:46:58.520 --> 1:47:02.800 we if we make our cutters as the licensed publishers, 1:47:02.920 --> 1:47:05.160 then that's good. So that's the way that it worked. 1:47:05.240 --> 1:47:08.679 And so I continue to license our products and renew 1:47:08.760 --> 1:47:12.200 those licenses with BMGH. I've got a long standing relationship 1:47:12.280 --> 1:47:17.160 with it goes back forty years or something. So it's 1:47:17.200 --> 1:47:20.280 the way that that one works. And in this day 1:47:20.320 --> 1:47:23.200 and age, you know, I know, I mean long gone 1:47:23.240 --> 1:47:25.200 of the days when I used to employ lawyers to 1:47:25.280 --> 1:47:27.800 negotiate record contracts. You know, we've figured that one out 1:47:27.840 --> 1:47:31.679 a long time ago. So quite happy to feel confident 1:47:31.720 --> 1:47:34.560 in negotiating a record contract these days and for some 1:47:34.720 --> 1:47:37.240 years in the past. And and so I I know 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:40.160 how all that works. I know what the deal points 1:47:40.200 --> 1:47:42.559 and the structures and all the small print are all about. 1:47:42.720 --> 1:47:45.320 And you know, at the royalty rate that we get 1:47:45.400 --> 1:47:49.880 today is um. You know, it's the it's it's it's 1:47:50.000 --> 1:47:54.000 that's sort of top rate you would get. Um. I 1:47:54.000 --> 1:47:56.920 don't think. I don't. I don't believe anybody gets more 1:47:57.840 --> 1:47:59.920 than we get. What they might get is bigger. Advanced 1:48:00.080 --> 1:48:03.320 is But I'm not an advanced guy. I just say, look, 1:48:03.400 --> 1:48:05.719 keep your money. You know, when we sold the record, 1:48:05.920 --> 1:48:08.720 then you can pay me. But record companies and their 1:48:08.800 --> 1:48:10.920 cash flows and all the rest of it, they sometimes 1:48:10.960 --> 1:48:12.960 insist us to promoters or we want to pay you 1:48:13.080 --> 1:48:17.040 some in advance. And so yeah, you know, I don't 1:48:17.080 --> 1:48:19.439 mind having an advance, but I'm more comfortable and getting 1:48:19.439 --> 1:48:23.040 a high royalty and a notional advance just as an 1:48:23.040 --> 1:48:25.639 act of good faith to make sure that having laid 1:48:25.680 --> 1:48:27.920 out some money, a record company going to make the 1:48:27.960 --> 1:48:31.640 effort to try and sell product in order to recoup 1:48:31.680 --> 1:48:35.120 their advance. But I'm always, always much prefer to have 1:48:35.200 --> 1:48:40.200 a big royalty small advance. And if record companies want 1:48:40.200 --> 1:48:41.920 to pay me a bigger advance, well that that's fine, 1:48:42.000 --> 1:48:44.200 but it's not what I'm shooting for at all. I 1:48:44.280 --> 1:48:45.760 just want to I just want a good royalty rate. 1:48:45.800 --> 1:48:48.200 We're all we're all in the business of risk together. 1:48:48.880 --> 1:48:51.160 It seems to me that you know, the back end 1:48:51.280 --> 1:48:54.160 is the important thing. If you've done well, then that's 1:48:54.200 --> 1:48:56.960 when you can afford to be generous. If you're a 1:48:57.840 --> 1:48:59.439 you know, if you're a record company, you can afford 1:48:59.479 --> 1:49:02.320 to pay your ours generously once we've sold the records. 1:49:02.520 --> 1:49:05.720 If you don't sell them, everybody's a loser. And that 1:49:05.800 --> 1:49:07.439 doesn't seem to be the business I want to be 1:49:07.560 --> 1:49:10.639 in for sure. Would you ever sell your publishing, which 1:49:10.760 --> 1:49:12.479 is something that's happening with a lot of acts of 1:49:12.560 --> 1:49:15.799 your vintage at this point, Well that that that process 1:49:15.920 --> 1:49:18.240 came back. I came up many, many, many years ago 1:49:18.360 --> 1:49:21.160 as the idea of cashing in on your publishing and 1:49:22.040 --> 1:49:24.479 taking a lump sum or taking a lump sum, you know, 1:49:24.600 --> 1:49:26.960 selling it for a period of time and then getting 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:28.479 it back. I mean, all of that's been going off 1:49:28.600 --> 1:49:31.000 years and years and years, and frankly it's not something 1:49:31.160 --> 1:49:32.840 I mean, I think I looked at it, you know, 1:49:32.840 --> 1:49:34.439 I've had a couple of offers to do that, but 1:49:34.560 --> 1:49:37.760 it's not something that it's very hard to value because 1:49:37.840 --> 1:49:42.080 especially with a swing towards digital UM technology and digital 1:49:42.760 --> 1:49:45.640 UM ways of getting music, you know, when it when 1:49:45.680 --> 1:49:49.960 it's you're dealing in the world of streaming and hardly 1:49:50.000 --> 1:49:52.800 any paid downloads these days. It's mostly streaming and of 1:49:52.880 --> 1:49:56.800 course physical products. That it's quite difficult really to put 1:49:56.880 --> 1:50:00.320 a value on the on the residual life of of 1:50:00.560 --> 1:50:06.320 copyright UM in publishing terms as fairly generous, you know, 1:50:06.479 --> 1:50:08.880 seventy five years after the death of the composer, but 1:50:08.960 --> 1:50:13.519 in up until a few years ago UM in the UK, 1:50:14.040 --> 1:50:17.000 the life of copyright was was really rather minimal. It 1:50:17.120 --> 1:50:20.240 was it was fifty years UM and then it went. 1:50:20.640 --> 1:50:24.559 And so we were facing the time when many acts 1:50:24.640 --> 1:50:27.400 of the sixties were going to fall out of copyright, 1:50:28.840 --> 1:50:31.719 some of them famous people like the Beatles, but hundreds 1:50:31.760 --> 1:50:34.160 and hundreds and hundreds of artists who maybe only ever 1:50:34.240 --> 1:50:37.600 had one hit or some marginal record sales suddenly that 1:50:37.920 --> 1:50:41.000 that that little royalty that they were depending on every 1:50:41.080 --> 1:50:43.960 year to pay for the heating bill or to you know, 1:50:44.040 --> 1:50:46.720 put food on the table was going to disappear. And 1:50:47.479 --> 1:50:51.240 I was one of those people, you know, making a 1:50:51.760 --> 1:50:55.680 strong play with the UK government for extending life of 1:50:55.760 --> 1:51:01.360 copyright for um in recorded product and the Prime Minister 1:51:01.479 --> 1:51:03.640 of the day who I went to meet with and 1:51:03.720 --> 1:51:05.599 tried to persuade him and did some back of an 1:51:05.680 --> 1:51:08.639 envelope calculations to point out the value to the exchequer 1:51:08.760 --> 1:51:11.400 of keeping copyright going and what this meant in terms 1:51:11.479 --> 1:51:16.919 of gathering tax um. Just it was taking a political 1:51:17.040 --> 1:51:21.360 view that copyright was something old fashioned and should be 1:51:21.439 --> 1:51:26.200 free for everybody, blah blah blah. But luckily through the EU, 1:51:26.360 --> 1:51:29.040 in fact it was reversed and we did in fact 1:51:29.040 --> 1:51:32.400 get an extension to the life of copyright more or 1:51:32.479 --> 1:51:35.320 less in parallel with how it already was in the USA. 1:51:36.520 --> 1:51:38.360 So it's it's become a little more generous. And it 1:51:38.400 --> 1:51:40.840 doesn't mean that's a little more value in copyright than 1:51:40.880 --> 1:51:43.400 there was perhaps twenty years ago in the UK. I 1:51:43.439 --> 1:51:45.800 mean it would be valued a little higher, you know, 1:51:46.080 --> 1:51:51.040 the residual rights of of copyright, and I don't think, 1:51:51.360 --> 1:51:55.200 personally speaking, I would ever be seduced into selling copyright, 1:51:55.280 --> 1:51:57.600 and I think I would rather I would rather be 1:51:57.720 --> 1:52:04.240 passing it on to my family, um initially and continuing 1:52:04.320 --> 1:52:08.840 to you know, pay tax on that revenue, which is 1:52:09.120 --> 1:52:13.240 um is to me, I'd rather be at the focus, 1:52:13.360 --> 1:52:17.320 the center of it, rather than is somebody else's asset 1:52:18.160 --> 1:52:22.839 to fool around with and offset against other corporate losses 1:52:23.000 --> 1:52:24.559 or do whatever they might do with it. I mean, 1:52:24.640 --> 1:52:28.799 I just really would rather I and my successors entitled 1:52:28.880 --> 1:52:32.519 or hands on about it. I mean, Luckily, I have 1:52:32.600 --> 1:52:35.320 a son who's grown up with me in the music industry, 1:52:35.360 --> 1:52:39.559 and so he's you know, he's he understands all this stuff, 1:52:39.600 --> 1:52:44.080 and Will is already taking a an increasingly leading role 1:52:44.160 --> 1:52:50.559 in managing the assets of of both my personal musical 1:52:50.600 --> 1:52:54.000 income and the corporate musical income, and he one day, 1:52:54.400 --> 1:52:57.080 not too far from now, will be it will all 1:52:57.160 --> 1:52:59.960 be on his shoulders. He may decide, hey, I've had enough, 1:53:00.240 --> 1:53:02.519 I want to sell it. When that's that's his decision, 1:53:02.600 --> 1:53:08.400 not mine. Ultimately, release Crest of the nave In becomes 1:53:08.600 --> 1:53:12.479 mega successful. But also the inside story is the album 1:53:13.000 --> 1:53:16.360 was focused group in terms of what singles. So did 1:53:16.439 --> 1:53:19.080 you know that would be a commercial comeback into what 1:53:19.240 --> 1:53:23.639 degree was the focused story true and did it affect 1:53:23.720 --> 1:53:27.840 anything on the record. Well, I I may be wrong 1:53:27.920 --> 1:53:29.759 in this, but I do think it was my idea 1:53:29.840 --> 1:53:31.680 that we did that because I wasn't really sure that 1:53:31.760 --> 1:53:35.840 there has been a huge change in not so much 1:53:35.880 --> 1:53:38.320 in Europe, but certainly in the USA. That's big swing 1:53:38.680 --> 1:53:40.519 away from what used to be called a O R 1:53:40.680 --> 1:53:47.240 radio too very tightly regimented and researched playlists UM, and 1:53:47.600 --> 1:53:52.200 the swing away from that a our album product to 1:53:52.479 --> 1:53:57.720 alternative rock and contemporary pop and rock, and stations like UM, 1:53:58.680 --> 1:54:01.400 like KLOS or double any W suddenly that they were 1:54:01.439 --> 1:54:04.560 trying to get hip and do the new thing, and 1:54:05.080 --> 1:54:07.600 and they changed their format, their playlists and everything, and 1:54:07.680 --> 1:54:11.080 jet rteal just wasn't getting radio but sorry, playtime anymore 1:54:11.240 --> 1:54:13.200 in the in the way that we had during the seventies. 1:54:13.920 --> 1:54:18.040 But I think what happened was that the audiences that 1:54:18.640 --> 1:54:22.000 the demographic that the American radio was increasingly playing to 1:54:22.320 --> 1:54:26.320 prove to be fickle. They didn't actually spend the money 1:54:26.520 --> 1:54:29.479 on the products that were being advertised on American radio 1:54:29.520 --> 1:54:33.360 in the way that's been before, and so gradually it 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:38.680 swung back again to to not a complete reversion, but 1:54:38.840 --> 1:54:42.520 to something that then became known as classic rock. And 1:54:43.120 --> 1:54:45.040 many of those stations then went back to playing the 1:54:45.160 --> 1:54:49.600 kind of music that they played before. And I assume 1:54:49.920 --> 1:54:54.720 they replenished their coffers because the slightly older demographic was 1:54:54.960 --> 1:54:58.440 was supporting the advertising that brought them their revenue. And 1:54:59.800 --> 1:55:01.840 it we we began just to sort of get a 1:55:01.920 --> 1:55:04.000 sniff of that, I suppose in the latter part of 1:55:04.080 --> 1:55:07.280 the eighties, and I suggested that we should play the 1:55:07.360 --> 1:55:10.040 record initially, not to the media, not to the press, 1:55:10.680 --> 1:55:13.280 because chances are we've got a rough ride and people 1:55:13.360 --> 1:55:16.000 would not be approving. I said, why don't we play 1:55:16.000 --> 1:55:18.160 it to the fans, you know, and get a body 1:55:18.240 --> 1:55:21.600 of thought and opinion, and we can, you know, maybe 1:55:21.720 --> 1:55:25.960 choose the lead tracks we put to radio as a 1:55:26.040 --> 1:55:28.480 result of what we think jeth rot Health fans want. 1:55:29.320 --> 1:55:32.080 And and we did that to a degree, I mean, 1:55:32.120 --> 1:55:34.800 not not in a hugely detailed, massive survey, but you know, 1:55:34.880 --> 1:55:38.880 to a small focus group kind of thing. And it 1:55:39.200 --> 1:55:42.600 got the record company interested. That was the most important thing. 1:55:42.760 --> 1:55:46.160 Is it energized the record company a little bit because 1:55:46.160 --> 1:55:48.320 they were getting direct feedback from the fans who were 1:55:48.360 --> 1:55:51.000 going to buy this record or not. And I think 1:55:51.040 --> 1:55:53.000 that's what what got them to sit up and take 1:55:53.080 --> 1:55:58.560 notice of Crest of Benave and and the New York 1:55:58.640 --> 1:56:02.200 office of Crystalists were suddenly making a lot more effort 1:56:02.240 --> 1:56:05.600 than they perhaps had been to sell products and and 1:56:05.720 --> 1:56:07.600 to and to promote it in a way that was 1:56:07.840 --> 1:56:11.480 much more hands on and active. And the promo guy 1:56:11.480 --> 1:56:17.640 in New York was was, you know, really um you know, 1:56:17.680 --> 1:56:19.600 you really took it on as a personal crusade to 1:56:19.680 --> 1:56:22.400 try and get your hotel noticed. And we got some 1:56:22.680 --> 1:56:27.840 MTV play, and generally speaking, we um, we were. We 1:56:28.000 --> 1:56:32.400 were not exactly back in favor, but we were getting 1:56:32.480 --> 1:56:36.480 noticed again. And and the record company then nominated us 1:56:36.560 --> 1:56:40.600 for a Grammy and a new Grammy category and the 1:56:40.680 --> 1:56:42.760 rest of all that story, of course you know or 1:56:42.880 --> 1:56:47.280 too well, but it was just the beginning of um 1:56:48.080 --> 1:56:51.480 of It wasn't exactly a comeback. It was just sort 1:56:51.520 --> 1:56:54.480 of in a way, well you said, refocusing jet hotel 1:56:54.560 --> 1:56:57.240 with a with a with a demographic that that kind 1:56:57.280 --> 1:57:00.320 of knew us already, and it was just remind people 1:57:00.400 --> 1:57:02.760 we were still around, and you know very much that 1:57:02.880 --> 1:57:05.640 that is not that is not just due to me 1:57:05.840 --> 1:57:08.000 or the record, but it was the efforts of crystalists, 1:57:08.000 --> 1:57:11.280 particularly in the USA, and particularly of Kevin Sutter, the 1:57:11.320 --> 1:57:13.640 promo guy in New York. He was, you know, he 1:57:13.680 --> 1:57:16.000 should take the credit for a lot of the success 1:57:16.040 --> 1:57:18.600 of that album. Well, he's always told me the story. 1:57:18.680 --> 1:57:23.400 Good to have it confirmed by you. Now somewhere around 1:57:23.600 --> 1:57:28.720 thick as a bricks, certainly passion play, the media turns 1:57:28.800 --> 1:57:33.880 against Jeff row Tall. Did you sense this? And I 1:57:33.960 --> 1:57:38.200 would say, generally speaking, jeth Row Toll doesn't get any respect, 1:57:38.920 --> 1:57:42.600 although I believe it deserves so much. And then some people, 1:57:43.160 --> 1:57:45.280 you know, put it in the progressive camp. It's not 1:57:45.440 --> 1:57:48.840 in the progressive camp in my particular world. How do 1:57:48.920 --> 1:57:51.400 you view all that? And I think that any band, 1:57:51.800 --> 1:57:55.560 any artists, will there will be a love affair with 1:57:55.840 --> 1:58:00.240 the critics and and the public alike for a mile, 1:58:00.920 --> 1:58:03.040 and maybe that last year three or four records, and 1:58:03.120 --> 1:58:07.960 then something used coming along, and maybe, and understandably, particularly 1:58:09.320 --> 1:58:13.400 you know music journalists who have been perhaps flattered by 1:58:13.600 --> 1:58:16.720 record companies and managers and invited to concerts and given 1:58:16.800 --> 1:58:19.120 free tickets and all the rest of it. Suddenly they 1:58:19.200 --> 1:58:22.520 begin to feel, you know, they're in the pocket potentially 1:58:22.600 --> 1:58:25.200 that people will see them as being a soft touch. 1:58:25.240 --> 1:58:28.080 They're always going to write good reviews and and necessarily 1:58:28.120 --> 1:58:31.600 they're going to say, no, well, this time we're going 1:58:31.680 --> 1:58:34.480 to buck against the system. We we we don't think 1:58:34.520 --> 1:58:36.520 this does deserve a good review. We're going to give 1:58:36.520 --> 1:58:40.280 it a stinker, you know, and and show that we're 1:58:40.320 --> 1:58:43.600 independent minds and independent writers. And I think to a 1:58:43.720 --> 1:58:46.720 degree that's what happens, and certainly happened with Jester Tell 1:58:46.760 --> 1:58:50.120 around the time of a Passion play, most notably in 1:58:50.200 --> 1:58:53.720 the UK press, but also in the USA too and 1:58:53.840 --> 1:58:57.480 in Australia. I remember, we've got some really really bad reviews, 1:58:57.720 --> 1:59:00.640 and I can understand why, and to some extent I 1:59:01.480 --> 1:59:03.520 having known some of those journalists. I mean, I I 1:59:04.960 --> 1:59:07.200 you know, I had to say, look, hey, I think 1:59:07.240 --> 1:59:08.960 you got this about right. You know, it wasn't it 1:59:09.080 --> 1:59:11.640 wasn't that great. Had a lot of criticism could be 1:59:11.760 --> 1:59:14.680 leveled at a Passion play, and some of it quite justifiably, 1:59:15.520 --> 1:59:18.400 but of course it hurt at the time, but it 1:59:18.560 --> 1:59:22.920 was greatly exaggerated, you know, especially with the ridiculous press story. 1:59:23.040 --> 1:59:27.000 Jethro Hotel quit because of a horrible front page, bad 1:59:27.080 --> 1:59:30.680 review and Melody Maker. We didn't quit. The first thing 1:59:30.760 --> 1:59:32.520 I heard of it was when I walked down Oxford 1:59:32.520 --> 1:59:35.720 Street in London and saw the copies of Melody Maker 1:59:35.800 --> 1:59:38.440 on the news stand with this headline thing, and I what. 1:59:39.280 --> 1:59:42.280 I bought one to read it, and I was absolutely insensed. 1:59:42.600 --> 1:59:44.240 How what where did they get this from? So I 1:59:44.760 --> 1:59:47.960 went to the nearest phone box and called my manager, 1:59:48.120 --> 1:59:50.600 called Terry Ellis that Crystalists, said what the hell is this? 1:59:50.720 --> 1:59:54.240 Who who put this out? He said, ah, well, sorry, 1:59:54.240 --> 1:59:56.000 I forgot to mention it to you, But I thought 1:59:56.040 --> 1:59:57.760 this was a good idea. We've got another front page 1:59:57.800 --> 2:00:01.320 headline and Melody Maker. I mean one of the times 2:00:01.360 --> 2:00:03.880 when Terry and I definitely butted heads and did not 2:00:04.000 --> 2:00:07.720 agree on on the way forward. But it made us. 2:00:07.800 --> 2:00:10.160 I thought it just looked really rather petulant and stupid, 2:00:10.280 --> 2:00:12.960 and it took a while to come back from that. 2:00:13.240 --> 2:00:16.360 But I actually took Ray Coleman, the editor of Melody Maker, 2:00:16.400 --> 2:00:20.240 to tars. Ray, you knew this wasn't right, you knew 2:00:20.320 --> 2:00:22.120 you were being fed a line. You just you just 2:00:22.240 --> 2:00:25.680 went along with it because you were prepared to take 2:00:25.720 --> 2:00:28.240 it at face value because it was a big story 2:00:28.280 --> 2:00:29.960 you could use on the front page. You know, you 2:00:30.000 --> 2:00:32.280 could have just picked up the phone to me and said, 2:00:33.000 --> 2:00:36.560 is this right. I was a bit bit upset with 2:00:36.720 --> 2:00:40.120 Ray and I mean, of course we did things together 2:00:40.200 --> 2:00:42.040 in the future, and he was a lovely chat but 2:00:42.160 --> 2:00:44.360 you know, he was convenient for him to believe what 2:00:44.480 --> 2:00:48.440 he was being told, and it was. It was definitely 2:00:48.520 --> 2:00:54.840 not not It was a total piece of manufactured front 2:00:54.920 --> 2:01:00.520 page grabbing hysteria and I think actually rather silly thing 2:01:00.600 --> 2:01:04.400 to do. And what about the Prague Moniker. Well, I 2:01:04.600 --> 2:01:09.160 was always very pleased to be in the realms of 2:01:09.440 --> 2:01:12.720 progressive rock in people's estimation, because that that term first 2:01:12.880 --> 2:01:16.400 came about as far as I'm aware, in the UK 2:01:16.600 --> 2:01:19.800 music press in nine and I first saw the term 2:01:19.880 --> 2:01:24.720 progressive rock applied to a few bands, including Jeff Hotel, 2:01:25.440 --> 2:01:27.360 and I thought, wow, that's interesting. I quite like that. 2:01:27.640 --> 2:01:30.840 I quite like the idea being progressive rock. That's that 2:01:31.080 --> 2:01:35.400 seems to me what I do, and and so that 2:01:35.560 --> 2:01:37.720 was fine. But then of course they got shortened to 2:01:38.400 --> 2:01:42.000 Prague rock and then just Prague and by the time 2:01:42.040 --> 2:01:45.560 the early punks came along, Prague was a derisory term. 2:01:45.640 --> 2:01:51.959 Meant to meant to describe people who were um basically 2:01:52.920 --> 2:01:56.800 obsessed with showing off the instrumental prowess, and who were 2:01:57.400 --> 2:02:02.880 arrogant and old fashioned and and generally speaking, you know, 2:02:03.040 --> 2:02:07.400 up their own artists, to put it mildly, and and 2:02:07.480 --> 2:02:10.120 I think probably bands like Yes and Genesis and Emerson 2:02:10.200 --> 2:02:13.440 Lake and Palm we do have to bear some responsibility 2:02:13.520 --> 2:02:16.520 for that. Great musicians and great artists as they were, 2:02:16.600 --> 2:02:18.560 but Jethro Tell was a bit more rough and ready, 2:02:18.640 --> 2:02:21.840 I think, a bit more, you know, but there was 2:02:21.880 --> 2:02:24.120 a rougher edge to what we did, partly because we 2:02:24.160 --> 2:02:27.839 weren't as good as they were in terms of musical ability, 2:02:27.960 --> 2:02:30.200 but also there was an edge to some of the music, 2:02:30.440 --> 2:02:34.560 particularly in the lyrics. So um, I guess, um, I 2:02:34.600 --> 2:02:38.440 guess that's why some of the bands from the punk 2:02:38.560 --> 2:02:42.200 era secretly were actually Jethro Hotel fans, like Johnny Rotten 2:02:42.280 --> 2:02:45.480 from the Sex Pistols, huge huge fan of Aqualung and 2:02:45.560 --> 2:02:48.240 then you know some of the other folks. Remember being 2:02:48.560 --> 2:02:52.280 approached by Joey Ramone at a Swiss festival. It was 2:02:52.360 --> 2:02:54.400 just all over and we wanted autographs because his mom 2:02:54.480 --> 2:02:59.360 was a huge fan and and and the guitar player 2:02:59.480 --> 2:03:03.040 from the Had Hot Chili Peppers, or or the Guys 2:03:03.080 --> 2:03:06.600 and the Stranglers or Sting, and a whole bunch of 2:03:06.640 --> 2:03:08.800 people who were part of that early punk thing. Who 2:03:09.240 --> 2:03:13.320 was secret jethro Hotel fans um. I mean, I know 2:03:13.480 --> 2:03:16.320 this because this firsthand experience. You know, they've actually said so, 2:03:16.440 --> 2:03:18.000 and I'm sure they weren't just being nice to me. 2:03:18.480 --> 2:03:21.960 Well perhaps they were, but it's it's just kind of 2:03:22.040 --> 2:03:24.000 nice to know that that you did actually make an 2:03:24.040 --> 2:03:27.600 impact on that next generation of musicians, even though they 2:03:27.640 --> 2:03:31.080 couldn't possibly admit publicly to liking Genesis or jeth Hotel 2:03:31.160 --> 2:03:33.600 or whatever it might be, but secretly they did. We 2:03:33.680 --> 2:03:36.800 were part of their learning process, part of their background, 2:03:36.840 --> 2:03:39.920 their points of reference musically, and even though what they 2:03:40.000 --> 2:03:43.160 do was musically very different, it was still informed in 2:03:43.320 --> 2:03:45.920 some way by the music that had gone before. And 2:03:46.080 --> 2:03:49.160 I think Johnny Rotten saw in the song Aqualung and 2:03:49.520 --> 2:03:51.640 saw in the album cover of that he saw a 2:03:51.760 --> 2:03:58.280 persona a character that was angry and yet sensitive and fearful, 2:03:58.400 --> 2:04:01.720 you know, the way was depicted on the Aqualong album cover. 2:04:01.840 --> 2:04:04.360 And then that's Johnny Rotten. That's that's how he appeared 2:04:04.360 --> 2:04:06.480 when he first appeared on TV. That's going a hunched 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:08.880 guy with sort of the same kind of pose and 2:04:09.040 --> 2:04:11.720 and and he's a mixture of aggression and anger and 2:04:11.880 --> 2:04:15.520 yet fear and vulnerability. I think he captured that in 2:04:15.800 --> 2:04:20.240 in his stage persona. Um, maybe I'm being a little 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:22.680 fanciful in that, but he certainly told me he was 2:04:22.680 --> 2:04:25.600 a huge fan of that track. He also hit Wore 2:04:25.680 --> 2:04:29.400 the Long Coat. Okay. Many Jethroad Toll albums have been 2:04:29.520 --> 2:04:35.480 remixed by Stephen Wilson, generally speaking on against remixing, but 2:04:35.640 --> 2:04:38.160 he has a unique way of doing it without putting 2:04:38.200 --> 2:04:40.240 down the other people who have attempted the same thing 2:04:40.320 --> 2:04:43.280 with the Beatles and other acts. He seems just a 2:04:43.800 --> 2:04:47.280 scrape away that his Tritus the Steel Wool, and it 2:04:47.400 --> 2:04:51.280 sounds exactly like the original but better. So how did 2:04:51.360 --> 2:04:54.720 you get involved with him remixing your records? How do 2:04:54.800 --> 2:04:58.560 you feel about all that? He told me that you 2:04:58.640 --> 2:05:01.520 wanted to fix some mistake from the past, and he said, no, 2:05:01.960 --> 2:05:04.640 this is for fans, and this is how the fans 2:05:04.720 --> 2:05:08.280 remember it, so you can he tell me the experience there? Yeah, 2:05:08.320 --> 2:05:10.600 that that that is. That is how Stephen feels about it, 2:05:10.600 --> 2:05:13.160 and I, you know, I told him to remix that 2:05:13.280 --> 2:05:16.320 coolong and five point once around sound and put the 2:05:16.360 --> 2:05:20.120 saxophone in another room. I said, just leave out the saxophone, 2:05:21.360 --> 2:05:23.880 which he said, now we can't do that. We've gotta 2:05:23.880 --> 2:05:25.600 we've got to keep everything there and the way it was, 2:05:25.720 --> 2:05:28.760 but we'll just make it a little more transparent because 2:05:28.800 --> 2:05:30.880 it was too dense that album. It's just too much 2:05:30.960 --> 2:05:33.080 going on all the time. But you know, the whole 2:05:33.120 --> 2:05:35.520 point about when I was asked by the record company, 2:05:35.680 --> 2:05:38.880 you know, about doing remixes, and I somewhere, I think 2:05:38.920 --> 2:05:43.800 I'd heard that Steven Wilson had remixed that classic first 2:05:44.640 --> 2:05:50.920 King Crimson album. So and having believe that that Robert 2:05:50.960 --> 2:05:53.200 Fripp was quite a kind of a control freak, hands 2:05:53.280 --> 2:05:55.160 on guy, I thought, well, if he lets Stephen Wilson 2:05:55.360 --> 2:05:59.600 remixes the big album, then you know he must be 2:05:59.680 --> 2:06:02.360 all right it. So I've suggested Steven Wilson to the 2:06:02.400 --> 2:06:05.840 record company I think at that point still Warners, and 2:06:07.600 --> 2:06:09.240 I think that Coolong they wanted to do. And so 2:06:09.280 --> 2:06:10.920 I said, we'll send him a couple of tracks and 2:06:11.040 --> 2:06:14.760 see how he gets on. And he and I communicated, 2:06:14.760 --> 2:06:18.840 and and so Stephen sent me a couple of you know, 2:06:19.000 --> 2:06:22.680 rough mixes having got the digital masters, you know, because 2:06:22.680 --> 2:06:28.440 obviously was transferred from the track analog tape to twenty 2:06:28.480 --> 2:06:31.320 four bit audio, and then in that process you can 2:06:31.400 --> 2:06:34.720 then tackle it in a different way. You can clean 2:06:34.840 --> 2:06:36.440 up all the tracks. You can get rid of those 2:06:36.480 --> 2:06:40.160 little clicks and hisses and hums, you can you can 2:06:40.280 --> 2:06:46.400 delete the extraneous noise between lines of vocal or verse 2:06:46.640 --> 2:06:51.440 and choruses. You can have absolute digital silence, and so 2:06:51.680 --> 2:06:54.320 suddenly the music is much more transparent, you know, you 2:06:54.400 --> 2:06:58.480 don't have all that sort of general kind of analog 2:06:58.920 --> 2:07:01.520 mulchi kind of back grounds. Suddenly it's it's you can 2:07:01.560 --> 2:07:04.560 see through the clouds, you know, it's it's it's daylight. 2:07:04.880 --> 2:07:08.760 And I think that's what Stephen has always done well, 2:07:09.000 --> 2:07:13.160 that he cleans everything up and then he he analyzes 2:07:13.240 --> 2:07:17.320 the way the original mixes were done and sets out 2:07:17.440 --> 2:07:20.960 not to replicate it, but to generally speaking, have the 2:07:21.080 --> 2:07:27.600 same stereo field in terms of positioning instruments and gives 2:07:27.680 --> 2:07:32.880 them the same dynamic um kind of place. But you know, 2:07:32.960 --> 2:07:35.440 he fine tunes everything to a degree that I think 2:07:35.520 --> 2:07:41.120 makes the music ultimately it is clearer punchier, more transparent, 2:07:41.640 --> 2:07:45.840 and in some ways, you know, here's a bit of 2:07:45.920 --> 2:07:47.920 a trade off because you're dealing with analog tapes that 2:07:48.000 --> 2:07:53.360 are fifty years old and they can only probably they 2:07:53.440 --> 2:07:55.760 get baked in an oven, so that glues the oxide 2:07:55.800 --> 2:07:59.400 onto the backing for one more pass, which is your 2:07:59.440 --> 2:08:03.280 one and only chance really to to lift off that 2:08:03.400 --> 2:08:08.560 audience transfer it to the digital domain. But you know, 2:08:08.680 --> 2:08:10.879 sometimes the tape has lost a little bit of quality 2:08:10.960 --> 2:08:13.160 it's at very often the high end seems to suffer, 2:08:13.600 --> 2:08:17.280 certainly with certain tape batches that came. I think the 2:08:17.400 --> 2:08:20.080 A album suffered very badly from loss of oxide, and 2:08:20.840 --> 2:08:23.280 it was quite a tough one to try and recapture 2:08:23.320 --> 2:08:27.560 the high end on that album. But to an extent, 2:08:27.680 --> 2:08:29.360 you know, you it's a bit of a trade off there. 2:08:29.440 --> 2:08:32.040 But by and large the balance lies in favor of 2:08:32.560 --> 2:08:34.840 being able to clean things up, tidy things up, give 2:08:34.840 --> 2:08:37.120 it a bit more punch, a bit more transparency, and 2:08:37.640 --> 2:08:41.360 and not radically change the balance of instruments or the 2:08:41.880 --> 2:08:45.560 or the stereo fields positioning of instruments. But then, of course, 2:08:45.960 --> 2:08:49.480 part of the remixing process isn't just recreating a stereo mix. 2:08:49.560 --> 2:08:54.080 It's a it's five point one surround, and and in 2:08:54.160 --> 2:08:56.520 that regard I'm more than happy to hand over the 2:08:56.560 --> 2:08:58.560 reins because I do not have a five point one 2:08:58.640 --> 2:09:01.160 surround system. I'd actual you don't own a record player. 2:09:01.680 --> 2:09:03.840 I used to have a CD player, but Apple stopped 2:09:03.840 --> 2:09:06.640 putting CD players in the desktop computer, so I don't 2:09:06.640 --> 2:09:09.320 even have one of those anymore. So I'm being used 2:09:09.360 --> 2:09:13.040 to listening for twenty odd years now. I mean, I 2:09:13.120 --> 2:09:16.120 only listen to music as digital audio files. But then 2:09:16.200 --> 2:09:18.160 for the most part, I'm listening to twenty four bit 2:09:18.680 --> 2:09:23.480 digital audio files, which are great quality. Um that's the 2:09:23.600 --> 2:09:27.280 medium in which I work as a writer, as a producer, 2:09:27.360 --> 2:09:31.280 as a recording engineer, and when I'm recording for other 2:09:31.360 --> 2:09:34.040 people as a guest. You know, I'm always used to 2:09:34.160 --> 2:09:37.880 hearing and hearing good quality music, but I don't. I 2:09:37.960 --> 2:09:41.720 don't as a music listener. I'm not really a music 2:09:41.840 --> 2:09:45.360 fan or a geek. You know, the idea of the 2:09:45.480 --> 2:09:49.120 Japanese tea ceremony of music listening by you know, gently 2:09:49.160 --> 2:09:51.600 blowing the dust off your vinyl record and setting it 2:09:51.680 --> 2:09:54.320 all up and putting it on the turntable and gently 2:09:54.400 --> 2:09:56.320 dropping the needle on in the right place. So you 2:09:56.320 --> 2:09:58.960 don't damage anything or make horrible noises, and then sitting 2:09:59.000 --> 2:10:01.960 back and listening to an entire album. It's a great 2:10:02.000 --> 2:10:05.280 thing to do, but it's it is, it's slowing everything down. 2:10:05.360 --> 2:10:08.320 It's just stepping back. And that's why I say the 2:10:08.440 --> 2:10:13.600 Japanese tea ceremonies are very formal and and stayed way 2:10:13.680 --> 2:10:16.200 of listening to music. And perhaps that's the way people 2:10:16.280 --> 2:10:18.760 did it in the sixties and seventies and they're doing 2:10:18.840 --> 2:10:22.480 it again today, and good luck to them. But frankly speaking, 2:10:22.560 --> 2:10:25.600 I if I have a record player, I don't know 2:10:25.680 --> 2:10:27.520 where it is. I know I did have one or 2:10:27.560 --> 2:10:31.640 two because I don't remember selling them, but um, you know, 2:10:31.680 --> 2:10:33.360 it's the sort of thing I just don't really feel 2:10:33.400 --> 2:10:41.400 inclined to to acquire, um technical stuff, you know, gadgets 2:10:41.480 --> 2:10:44.960 and things. I've surrounded by these for all of my 2:10:45.160 --> 2:10:49.160 life and I still am today surrounded by gadgets. But 2:10:49.400 --> 2:10:51.800 I'm an acoustic guy. I like to pick up and 2:10:51.880 --> 2:10:55.760 play acoustic instruments and you know, and have a good microphone, 2:10:56.320 --> 2:10:59.120 and yes, I use all the technology when it comes 2:10:59.160 --> 2:11:01.640 to recording and mixt thing, but it's not stuff that 2:11:01.720 --> 2:11:05.120 I enjoy. It's just tools of the trade. You know, 2:11:05.240 --> 2:11:07.720 it's just a means to an end, whereas I can 2:11:07.760 --> 2:11:10.760 get quite attached to a good microphone or get attached 2:11:10.800 --> 2:11:13.440 to a nice musical instrument, but the rest of the 2:11:13.520 --> 2:11:16.720 ganger tree means little to me. It's um here today, 2:11:16.800 --> 2:11:21.080 gone tomorrow. It's it's it's all. It's all as good 2:11:21.120 --> 2:11:25.120 as the next update you know to your software. Okay, 2:11:25.200 --> 2:11:29.120 stay with software. That's a very modern viewpoint which a 2:11:29.200 --> 2:11:32.800 lot of older artists do not embrace, and they bitch 2:11:32.880 --> 2:11:35.520 about today's system. What do we know? No matter who 2:11:35.680 --> 2:11:39.360 you are, it's different from the pre internet era. Very 2:11:39.600 --> 2:11:44.280 hard to reach people. Okay, maybe the usual suspects will 2:11:44.320 --> 2:11:47.160 come to see you live, but to get your new 2:11:47.320 --> 2:11:51.320 music into the hands of the public, to have radio 2:11:51.480 --> 2:11:56.160 and other exposure outlets play it, it's difficult for absolutely 2:11:56.240 --> 2:12:01.600 everybody new and classic acts. So you have a new 2:12:01.720 --> 2:12:06.920 album coming out imminently, what was the motivation to do it? 2:12:07.920 --> 2:12:10.320 Also knowing that it's harder than ever for people to 2:12:10.400 --> 2:12:12.600 hear it. Many people don't record at all. Who are 2:12:12.720 --> 2:12:16.160 your vintage and how did it suddenly become Jethro Toll 2:12:16.200 --> 2:12:20.440 again as opposed to Ianni Anderson, Well, i've I mean, 2:12:20.480 --> 2:12:21.960 people have found up saying, oh, it's the first new 2:12:22.040 --> 2:12:24.360 jethro Tel album in twenty years, but it's not. It's 2:12:24.400 --> 2:12:28.520 actually nineteen. And secondly, there's been quite a few record 2:12:28.600 --> 2:12:30.440 releases in that period of time, you know. In two 2:12:30.480 --> 2:12:32.800 thousand and eleven, I started work on a new project 2:12:32.840 --> 2:12:34.600 which turned out to be as thick as a Break too, 2:12:35.160 --> 2:12:37.560 although I released it under my own name at that point. 2:12:37.680 --> 2:12:41.720 And and then two years later there was Homoerraticus, again 2:12:41.800 --> 2:12:44.960 released under my own name, but in retrospect probably that 2:12:45.000 --> 2:12:47.240 should have been released as a jet Hotel album because 2:12:47.280 --> 2:12:49.520 it was the same bunch of guys who are on 2:12:49.600 --> 2:12:52.560 the Zelo Gene and have been playing with me for 2:12:53.120 --> 2:12:56.880 an average of about fifteen years, the longest lineup of 2:12:56.960 --> 2:13:01.880 jeth Hotel ever. And and then of course the String 2:13:01.960 --> 2:13:05.920 Quartets album, which once again got to number one in 2:13:06.000 --> 2:13:09.800 the Billboard charts of some obscure category classical crossover or 2:13:09.840 --> 2:13:13.760 whatever it's called. And it you know, I've not been 2:13:13.840 --> 2:13:15.600 I've not been asleep on my feet, you know. I've 2:13:15.600 --> 2:13:18.960 been busy working at things and obviously doing a huge 2:13:19.000 --> 2:13:25.600 amount of tours. But the time came in during two 2:13:25.640 --> 2:13:27.720 sixteen I decide I should I should make a new 2:13:27.800 --> 2:13:30.240 record again of two years after the previous one, And 2:13:30.800 --> 2:13:34.000 at the beginning of two thousand seventeen, I cracked on 2:13:34.160 --> 2:13:36.839 with the job of a new album, which I decided 2:13:36.880 --> 2:13:40.200 would be a Jet Hotel album. And decided I would 2:13:40.240 --> 2:13:44.720 write a bunch of of songs that each one would 2:13:44.760 --> 2:13:47.400 be about a different strong human emotion. That was the 2:13:47.480 --> 2:13:50.920 simple underlying theme. So I wrote down a list of 2:13:51.600 --> 2:13:57.200 words to describe human emotions, extreme human emotions, just one 2:13:57.280 --> 2:14:00.400 word for each each one, and I wrote and words 2:14:00.520 --> 2:14:05.600 like hate, vengeance, retribution, jealousy, anger, greed, and then some 2:14:05.760 --> 2:14:14.200 nice stuff like fraternal love, spiritual love, erotic love, compassion, companionship, loyalty. 2:14:14.640 --> 2:14:17.080 And I looked at my list of words which would 2:14:17.120 --> 2:14:20.240 hopefully become songs, and I thought, Wow, these are all 2:14:20.280 --> 2:14:22.960 words I remember reading in the Holy Bible. And so 2:14:23.680 --> 2:14:27.760 in a whimsical moment of fancy, I did an Internet 2:14:27.840 --> 2:14:31.120 search for examples of those words coming up in the Bible, 2:14:31.360 --> 2:14:36.280 and and perused that with you know, a mixture of 2:14:36.280 --> 2:14:39.920 amusement and some intellectual curiosity. Because I'm not a Bible 2:14:40.000 --> 2:14:44.360 scholar and I am. I copied and pasted some examples 2:14:44.440 --> 2:14:47.040 of those just as references when it came to write songs, 2:14:47.480 --> 2:14:49.280 and the songs for the most part of songs about 2:14:49.280 --> 2:14:51.760 the real world and the present day. But I allude 2:14:52.360 --> 2:14:55.920 two elements of the biblical stories here and there, and 2:14:56.000 --> 2:14:59.400 a couple of songs more obviously than others. But that's 2:14:59.440 --> 2:15:02.640 the that's the that's the background to the record. And 2:15:03.120 --> 2:15:06.320 it began in early two thousand and seventeen and I 2:15:06.480 --> 2:15:10.160 we recorded seven tracks, four of which were complete by 2:15:10.200 --> 2:15:12.800 the end of that that that year, and the rest 2:15:12.880 --> 2:15:15.160 I kept telling myself, well, get on to finish the 2:15:15.240 --> 2:15:16.920 rest of it, but we were on tour so much 2:15:17.000 --> 2:15:19.880 in two thousand and eighteen and two thousand and nineteen, 2:15:19.920 --> 2:15:22.720 and I kept putting it off, and then suddenly the 2:15:22.800 --> 2:15:27.680 pandemic was honest, and another another period of more than 2:15:27.760 --> 2:15:30.440 a year went by when we couldn't get together and work. 2:15:30.520 --> 2:15:32.320 We were in lockdown, not allowed to be in each 2:15:32.320 --> 2:15:36.480 other's company, and I understided I would do the last 2:15:36.560 --> 2:15:38.760 five songs which I had written back in two thousand 2:15:38.760 --> 2:15:41.320 and seventeen. They were all complete lyrically and musically, and 2:15:42.040 --> 2:15:46.440 I just went back and relearned them and recorded them 2:15:46.480 --> 2:15:50.040 at home as acoustic tracks, and which in a way 2:15:50.080 --> 2:15:52.920 it was probably a good thing because it gave the 2:15:53.000 --> 2:15:55.120 album rather like aqualung. It gave it a little bit 2:15:55.200 --> 2:15:59.040 more variety in terms of dynamics and musical style. So 2:16:00.480 --> 2:16:05.040 it was finally completed in and mixed and mastered in 2:16:05.200 --> 2:16:08.360 June of this year, and the album art was stunned, 2:16:08.400 --> 2:16:11.000 and I went in search of a record company who 2:16:11.080 --> 2:16:14.000 might be brave enough to take it on. And you know, 2:16:14.120 --> 2:16:17.560 we listened to the overtures of about six different record 2:16:17.640 --> 2:16:21.200 companies and two in particular who we went into much 2:16:21.240 --> 2:16:25.640 more depth with in terms of looking at the detail 2:16:25.720 --> 2:16:32.360 of potential deals. And I made my decision. But unfortunately, 2:16:32.440 --> 2:16:36.400 the the reality of today's world as we meant, meant 2:16:36.440 --> 2:16:38.520 we would have to wait for some time in order 2:16:38.600 --> 2:16:42.280 to get vinyl pressed, because it's the waiting time to 2:16:42.320 --> 2:16:45.640 get with vinyl pressed from scratches somewhere. Some people will 2:16:45.720 --> 2:16:48.480 say eight nine months, other people saying more than a year. 2:16:49.520 --> 2:16:51.600 That's the queue to be in if you want to 2:16:51.680 --> 2:16:55.040 get your new record pressed as a vinyl product. But 2:16:55.560 --> 2:17:01.120 I've already um jumped the gun a bit by by 2:17:01.560 --> 2:17:04.520 scheduling a release in the end of March two twenty 2:17:04.600 --> 2:17:07.040 three for the next album, So we're already in the 2:17:07.120 --> 2:17:12.080 queue for having that one pressed in time. But it's 2:17:12.120 --> 2:17:14.480 been frustrating, to say the least, having to wait from 2:17:15.360 --> 2:17:17.440 May June when I've sort of done the work, and 2:17:17.520 --> 2:17:20.279 then thinking it's not going to be out until January. 2:17:20.959 --> 2:17:25.120 It seems like another another long period of sitting on 2:17:25.240 --> 2:17:28.160 my hands and then having to be re energized to 2:17:28.240 --> 2:17:31.160 do all the press and promo, to try and um 2:17:32.200 --> 2:17:36.199 make its presence felt amongst that small but argent body 2:17:36.280 --> 2:17:39.040 of fans and perhaps introduced it to who people who 2:17:39.080 --> 2:17:41.600 have perhaps not too aware of Jeter Hotel, but might 2:17:41.720 --> 2:17:45.920 hear about it in what remains of the music media. 2:17:46.680 --> 2:17:49.000 You're heavily active. If you talk about being on the 2:17:49.080 --> 2:17:51.640 road so much that you can't finish the record, you 2:17:51.720 --> 2:17:56.640 talk about scheduling a record in what is the motivation? Now? 2:17:56.760 --> 2:17:58.680 There are a lot of acts they literally have to 2:17:58.760 --> 2:18:02.119 work to pay the bills. You've had much more success 2:18:02.200 --> 2:18:04.960 than many of those people. You're a smart guy. You 2:18:05.120 --> 2:18:09.320 own your own publishing. To what degree is money motivation? 2:18:09.520 --> 2:18:12.000 Some people they do the live gig because they just 2:18:12.080 --> 2:18:15.800 cannot get that response anywhere else in life. That feedback 2:18:15.840 --> 2:18:19.480 from the audience. So what keeps you still working on 2:18:19.600 --> 2:18:23.000 the road and still making new records. Well, part of 2:18:23.080 --> 2:18:27.120 it is just that that kind of creative urge that 2:18:27.280 --> 2:18:30.720 you seem to have been born with and as a child, 2:18:30.879 --> 2:18:32.640 you know, I can remember doing things. I was always 2:18:32.640 --> 2:18:36.520 happy in my own company, playing alone, writing, reading, drawing, 2:18:36.640 --> 2:18:40.680 and I mean that thing. I've always felt that creative urge. 2:18:40.760 --> 2:18:42.760 And I don't feel the need to be with other 2:18:42.840 --> 2:18:47.680 people necessarily to you know, for socializing, as I have 2:18:47.840 --> 2:18:51.320 too much had too much older brothers, but I grew 2:18:51.440 --> 2:18:53.840 up because they had left home. I was grew up 2:18:53.879 --> 2:18:55.720 more or less as an only child, and I wasn't 2:18:56.480 --> 2:18:59.880 particularly sociable at school, so I had plenty times to 2:19:00.000 --> 2:19:04.000 try and develop that sort of creative side of my personality. 2:19:04.800 --> 2:19:08.039 And I think that that never goes away. It's always 2:19:08.080 --> 2:19:12.080 becomes a little quietly burning thing in the back of 2:19:12.160 --> 2:19:14.320 your mind whatever else you're doing. And when it comes 2:19:14.360 --> 2:19:17.280 to making a new record, you're also I could say 2:19:17.360 --> 2:19:21.360 you we I am driven by another consideration, which is 2:19:21.480 --> 2:19:26.199 that time is running out. You know, the the sands 2:19:26.280 --> 2:19:29.320 of time are trickling through there in a very evident 2:19:29.440 --> 2:19:32.000 and seemingly ever increasing way. And I was bigger. If 2:19:32.040 --> 2:19:34.600 I don't do this now, it just could be too late. 2:19:34.959 --> 2:19:38.760 That applies to touring as well as making records. So 2:19:38.800 --> 2:19:40.320 I just want to crack on and do things that 2:19:40.400 --> 2:19:42.320 I haven't done yet. And as long as I feel 2:19:42.400 --> 2:19:46.840 that the that the creative juicies are flowing and the 2:19:46.959 --> 2:19:49.280 end result isn't too embarrassing, that I'm going to carry 2:19:49.360 --> 2:19:52.560 on doing it. And that's very evident in live touring 2:19:52.640 --> 2:19:55.880 because of course the pandemic, the eighteen months that we 2:19:55.920 --> 2:19:59.720 went through with not a single concert um that was 2:19:59.800 --> 2:20:02.240 a of a heavy toll, particularly for the band. Guys. 2:20:02.400 --> 2:20:05.080 I don't need to work, you know, I've got investments 2:20:05.120 --> 2:20:08.160 and money stashed. I'm you know, I'm fine. I don't 2:20:08.160 --> 2:20:11.040 need to work again. But they do. And so my 2:20:11.160 --> 2:20:14.840 band and crew, you know, they had a real tough 2:20:14.920 --> 2:20:17.440 eighteen months, was still having a tough time now because 2:20:17.520 --> 2:20:20.400 although we did twenty shows in the latter part of 2:20:20.520 --> 2:20:24.360 last year, and no we're near enough to recoup their 2:20:25.040 --> 2:20:27.320 lots of earnings in the in the previous year and 2:20:27.400 --> 2:20:30.080 a half. So you know, we we are. We're all 2:20:30.240 --> 2:20:31.960 I think a little obsessed by having to crack on 2:20:32.080 --> 2:20:34.039 with it and make up for lost time, and particularly 2:20:34.080 --> 2:20:40.320 older people like me, older artists. Um, if some some 2:20:40.480 --> 2:20:42.000 of us may have made the time may have come 2:20:42.080 --> 2:20:44.840 and gone, it's too late, you know, the narrow window 2:20:44.879 --> 2:20:51.359 opportunity unfortunately closed before some artists could re energize themselves 2:20:51.400 --> 2:20:53.240 and get back on the road. Is the time has 2:20:53.280 --> 2:20:55.520 gone by for some people. But for those of us 2:20:55.520 --> 2:21:00.960 who are in reasonable health and mentally um equipped to 2:21:01.280 --> 2:21:06.800 take on the you know, the stress and the mental 2:21:06.879 --> 2:21:10.520 reality of what touring and performing us about. Then, you know, 2:21:10.520 --> 2:21:13.960 I think we're all struck by the the inevitability. If 2:21:14.000 --> 2:21:18.039 we don't do it now, there might not be another chance. 2:21:18.879 --> 2:21:21.560 A year or two or five years from now, it 2:21:21.680 --> 2:21:26.119 could be over. So I think that's a profound driving force. 2:21:26.280 --> 2:21:29.680 However desperate it sounds. There is a degree of desperation 2:21:29.800 --> 2:21:32.120 about it, but there's nothing wrong with that. You know. 2:21:32.480 --> 2:21:34.240 Some people are just desperate to have a good time 2:21:34.360 --> 2:21:36.760 and go and party with their friends down at the nightclub. 2:21:36.840 --> 2:21:38.360 And I'm desperate to get on the road and do 2:21:38.480 --> 2:21:41.560 some concerts and and carry on with the record that 2:21:41.600 --> 2:21:47.800 I began twelve days ago. It's twelve diggers, yeah, thirteen 2:21:47.879 --> 2:21:51.160 days ago. On the January, the Onet as I've done 2:21:51.200 --> 2:21:53.200 with the last three or four records. January the first 2:21:53.360 --> 2:21:56.040 nine AM, I told everybody that's when I'm starting the 2:21:56.080 --> 2:22:00.760 new project, and I did, and so I'm I'm now 2:22:02.400 --> 2:22:07.560 thirteen days into that, almost two weeks, slightly hampered by 2:22:07.600 --> 2:22:09.600 the fact that I've been spending many hours a day 2:22:09.640 --> 2:22:12.440 doing press and promo, but even today I managed to 2:22:12.440 --> 2:22:17.040 slip a couple of hours in working up some refinements 2:22:17.040 --> 2:22:20.360 on a couple of song ideas, and I am you know, 2:22:20.400 --> 2:22:23.440 I'm now in a position where I can be pretty 2:22:23.520 --> 2:22:25.640 confident by the end of this month, I'm going to 2:22:25.720 --> 2:22:28.280 be making some demos to send to the guys, to 2:22:28.360 --> 2:22:31.400 the band, in the band, and hopefully in the the 2:22:31.520 --> 2:22:36.280 periods that we have ahead of us, when although I 2:22:36.320 --> 2:22:38.480 hope we're on the road doing concert tours, we may 2:22:38.560 --> 2:22:41.560 end up still ending up rescheduling yet again, and so 2:22:41.720 --> 2:22:45.000 we may have time to start recording earlier than I 2:22:45.200 --> 2:22:48.560 might have otherwise. But you know where, there's another record 2:22:48.600 --> 2:22:51.760 in there for sure, and I know what it's called. 2:22:52.360 --> 2:22:55.240 I have twelve pieces of music. I've written the first 2:22:55.360 --> 2:22:58.320 draft of all the lyrics, and no, I'm not going 2:22:58.360 --> 2:23:01.920 to tell anybody you or even my family or anybody. 2:23:01.959 --> 2:23:04.000 I'm not going to breathe a word about what what 2:23:04.120 --> 2:23:06.920 the record is and what it's about. And it's it's 2:23:07.040 --> 2:23:09.320 too precarious, you know, because I always reserve the right 2:23:09.400 --> 2:23:12.520 to change my mind, you know, scrap it if necessary, 2:23:12.600 --> 2:23:15.000 and start again. But you know, it's to me, it's 2:23:15.040 --> 2:23:17.440 like bad luck to tell people too much about what 2:23:17.600 --> 2:23:20.360 you're doing. I couldn't agree more soon as I tell people, 2:23:20.800 --> 2:23:23.760 then suddenly I can't do it now. You've also had 2:23:23.840 --> 2:23:27.520 adventures in salmon farming. How did that come about and 2:23:27.600 --> 2:23:30.560 how extensive was that? Well, I've been a musician for 2:23:30.760 --> 2:23:33.240 quite a bit of my life and I thought I 2:23:33.320 --> 2:23:36.080 did okay but doing that. But a little part of me, 2:23:37.400 --> 2:23:41.600 I suppose it's um, you know, there's it's just that 2:23:41.640 --> 2:23:44.400 it's just that feeling maybe that you you can turn 2:23:44.480 --> 2:23:46.560 your hand to something else, and you don't want to 2:23:46.600 --> 2:23:49.600 be too one dimensional in your in your life. So 2:23:49.720 --> 2:23:51.720 I thought, there's probably a couple of other things that 2:23:51.760 --> 2:23:54.080 I'm interested in doing, and maybe I should give them 2:23:54.120 --> 2:23:56.840 a go. And I we we we got involved in 2:23:56.959 --> 2:24:02.080 farming back in the late seventies, but that was you know, 2:24:02.320 --> 2:24:05.959 sheep and cattle and wheat and barley and oilseed, rape 2:24:06.000 --> 2:24:10.800 and stuff a bit bit bit bit ordinary, but I 2:24:11.000 --> 2:24:13.959 was bitten by the bug of aquaculture. I read about 2:24:14.000 --> 2:24:17.879 it actually in an airline magazine. I read an article 2:24:17.920 --> 2:24:20.840 about fish farm in this growing new industry, and I 2:24:21.160 --> 2:24:23.840 got quite interested in that idea. And I spent about 2:24:23.840 --> 2:24:31.040 a year trying to find um some potential um sites 2:24:31.120 --> 2:24:33.480 for marine aquo culture, which I was able to do 2:24:33.680 --> 2:24:37.400 and got it. Literally put notched a toe, but the 2:24:37.440 --> 2:24:40.039 whole of a both feet into the into the water 2:24:41.000 --> 2:24:43.800 to get going on that, and it was an interesting 2:24:43.879 --> 2:24:47.560 parallel career for twenty years to come, and during which 2:24:47.560 --> 2:24:52.480 period of time we my companies. You know, we're one 2:24:52.520 --> 2:24:55.320 of the major producers of smoked salmon, but unlike all 2:24:55.360 --> 2:24:59.879 the other companies, I was producing the broodstock, the egg, 2:25:00.440 --> 2:25:03.520 the hatchery, the fresh water part of salmon growth, the 2:25:03.640 --> 2:25:09.080 marine on growing of the fish, harvesting, processing, primary processing, 2:25:09.360 --> 2:25:13.600 and then and then finally the secondary processing and for 2:25:13.680 --> 2:25:16.040 the most part smoked salmon which was going to some 2:25:16.160 --> 2:25:19.600 of the premier outlets in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. 2:25:19.640 --> 2:25:22.160 And so we weren't the biggest company, but we were 2:25:22.200 --> 2:25:24.920 the only company doing the whole thing you know, from 2:25:25.360 --> 2:25:27.240 brood stock and eggs right the way through to the 2:25:27.280 --> 2:25:32.400 finished product on the supermarket shells. And so there was 2:25:32.480 --> 2:25:36.560 quite a quite a an interesting time learning about a 2:25:36.640 --> 2:25:41.120 whole new kind of form of business and a mixture 2:25:41.200 --> 2:25:46.960 of business and science and biology. But of course it 2:25:47.120 --> 2:25:53.359 had a an unfortunate consequence in terms of its impact 2:25:53.440 --> 2:25:56.360 upon the marine environment, the sourcing of feed for salmon 2:25:57.240 --> 2:26:02.840 and and inevitably the use of of chemicals to to 2:26:03.080 --> 2:26:06.480 protect the fish from an antibiotics to present the fish 2:26:06.560 --> 2:26:10.160 from disease. And and we were very much in the 2:26:10.240 --> 2:26:13.760 spearhead spearheading of of trying to find the way to 2:26:13.840 --> 2:26:17.120 do that and not be impactful on the environment and 2:26:17.240 --> 2:26:21.560 not be overly reliant on on the artificial side of 2:26:21.680 --> 2:26:24.560 intensive farming. So we were, you know, we we were 2:26:24.640 --> 2:26:26.520 quite active. I mean, I was quite engaged with people 2:26:26.560 --> 2:26:28.440 like green Peace and Friends of the Earth, trying to 2:26:29.080 --> 2:26:30.640 you know, show them what it was we were doing, 2:26:30.680 --> 2:26:33.240 and trying and explain that this wasn't you know, it 2:26:33.320 --> 2:26:35.640 wasn't a perfect industry. But we weren't as bad as 2:26:35.720 --> 2:26:37.760 we were being made out to be in some quarters. 2:26:38.760 --> 2:26:41.000 But in the end, the inevitability caught up with me 2:26:41.120 --> 2:26:44.760 in the in the new millennium, I decided that I 2:26:45.120 --> 2:26:47.440 really there were a couple of things that I was 2:26:47.560 --> 2:26:53.080 finding uncomfortable about intensive aquaculture, and I decided it was 2:26:53.200 --> 2:26:55.560 time to call it a day. So I sold off 2:26:55.840 --> 2:27:00.840 various arms of the business to different companies and turned 2:27:00.879 --> 2:27:04.320 my back on aquaculture forever. But you know, twenty years 2:27:04.400 --> 2:27:08.760 of I wouldn't say enjoyment, And somebody was a bit 2:27:08.800 --> 2:27:10.760 scary because it was you know, I was I was 2:27:10.879 --> 2:27:14.080 the investor, the sole shareholder. I was taking all the 2:27:14.200 --> 2:27:17.320 risks and something was very, very risky to do UM. 2:27:17.800 --> 2:27:20.200 And you know, we nearly came a cropper a couple 2:27:20.200 --> 2:27:24.320 of times, but I managed to keep my shirt on 2:27:24.480 --> 2:27:27.200 and and I was able to get out of it 2:27:27.280 --> 2:27:30.080 without any losses, which is all I ever really wanted 2:27:30.120 --> 2:27:32.640 to do. I mean, all that any profits we ever made, 2:27:32.680 --> 2:27:34.520 I just turned it back into the company, and we've 2:27:34.720 --> 2:27:36.920 tried to use that for growth in the company rather 2:27:37.040 --> 2:27:39.920 than rather than I didn't need the income personally, so 2:27:40.080 --> 2:27:43.720 it was just something to UM to do for the 2:27:43.800 --> 2:27:46.119 sake of doing it and for the four hundred people 2:27:46.200 --> 2:27:50.160 that were employed on our fish farms and and processing plants. 2:27:51.040 --> 2:27:53.200 But anyway, been there, done that, won't be going there 2:27:53.200 --> 2:27:55.440 again anytime soon. I went back to being a full 2:27:55.480 --> 2:27:58.400 time musician because I part from anything else, you know, 2:27:58.720 --> 2:28:02.480 I felt I was being torn into two different directions 2:28:02.520 --> 2:28:05.640 all the time. With my available number of hours of 2:28:06.600 --> 2:28:10.119 waking energy, I thought I just should get on being 2:28:10.120 --> 2:28:12.080 a musician again. That's where I started and where I 2:28:12.080 --> 2:28:17.280 should finish. So I will look back on my years 2:28:17.320 --> 2:28:21.800 in aquaculture with a degree of fondness and some achievement. 2:28:21.920 --> 2:28:24.720 But it's not, you know, it's not something I think 2:28:24.800 --> 2:28:27.480 I miss if I if I ever, if I ever 2:28:27.560 --> 2:28:29.320 thought about carrying on with it, it would have been 2:28:29.360 --> 2:28:33.119 in shellfish farming, which is really very very almost zero impact. 2:28:33.959 --> 2:28:36.400 Um I'm you know, I would have been a muscle farmer, 2:28:36.480 --> 2:28:41.880 perhaps an oyster farmer, scallop farmer, but um, anything that 2:28:42.000 --> 2:28:48.240 involves intensive feeding and intensive husbandry where you're putting a 2:28:48.280 --> 2:28:50.320 lot of live animals into a small space and then 2:28:50.400 --> 2:28:53.800 having to bash them over the head or put toxic 2:28:53.879 --> 2:28:57.800 carbon monoxide into a bath to kill them. And yeah, 2:28:57.800 --> 2:29:00.520 I mean, I'm not I'm not a veg I am 2:29:00.600 --> 2:29:04.920 mostly vegetarian, and I am one of those people who 2:29:05.000 --> 2:29:09.480 find it more increasingly difficult to justify eating something that 2:29:09.600 --> 2:29:12.280 had a face on it, which is why I can 2:29:12.360 --> 2:29:14.560 carry on. I think I could have carried on being 2:29:14.600 --> 2:29:17.240 a muscle farmer, because hard as you, hard as you 2:29:17.320 --> 2:29:20.520 may try, you don't see a pair of eyes or 2:29:20.560 --> 2:29:24.800 any anguish facing you. A lobster, on the other hand, 2:29:24.879 --> 2:29:27.880 you do, and a squid or an octopus you certainly do. 2:29:28.200 --> 2:29:31.160 And so some stuff I just wouldn't want to do anymore. 2:29:32.560 --> 2:29:38.440 I personally killed thousands of fish, and at the time, 2:29:38.760 --> 2:29:40.840 you know, you got on and did it because I 2:29:40.920 --> 2:29:42.760 was working on the farm, you know, here and there 2:29:43.360 --> 2:29:48.240 in a part time capacity. And I I look back 2:29:48.280 --> 2:29:52.760 on the what would be seen as a rather callous 2:29:52.800 --> 2:29:57.680 attitude in in in just and just dispatching all these 2:29:58.520 --> 2:30:03.119 these beautiful creatures and turning them into what was then 2:30:03.440 --> 2:30:09.440 still a relatively luxury food. I couldn't have carried on 2:30:09.600 --> 2:30:12.400 doing that. Sound a bit of a softie. I'm I'm 2:30:12.440 --> 2:30:15.480 a pussycat, partly because I like pussycats, and partly because 2:30:15.520 --> 2:30:21.400 I I actually really don't like being involved in harming 2:30:21.640 --> 2:30:26.480 living creatures. That goes against my principles and my my 2:30:26.600 --> 2:30:29.560 spiritual beliefs. But it's not to say that I never 2:30:29.640 --> 2:30:33.840 eat meat or never eat fish, but I do it 2:30:34.000 --> 2:30:39.240 very sparingly and try to um. You know, I mean 2:30:39.800 --> 2:30:43.160 eating meat is you know, I would have a difficulty 2:30:43.600 --> 2:30:48.600 arguing for it. But it if it's if it's been 2:30:49.200 --> 2:30:55.119 extensively reared, not intensively, and it's been organically reared, um, 2:30:56.200 --> 2:30:59.440 and it's had a good a good bit of time 2:30:59.720 --> 2:31:03.400 just sitting out there in the fields and chewing on 2:31:03.560 --> 2:31:07.440 grass and filling the sun on its back and and 2:31:07.520 --> 2:31:11.240 the wind and it's hair or its fleece or whatever 2:31:11.320 --> 2:31:16.720 it might be. Then I'm it's marginally easier to argue 2:31:16.760 --> 2:31:19.560 for it than something that's grown up on concrete and 2:31:20.520 --> 2:31:25.119 and never actually never actually stepped out into the open air. UM. 2:31:25.360 --> 2:31:28.640 So you know, I have a problem with eating chicken 2:31:28.760 --> 2:31:31.360 because so often, of course it's battery real chicken. And 2:31:31.840 --> 2:31:35.360 I know from from experience as to what that looks like. 2:31:35.520 --> 2:31:39.840 Because we've occasionally taken in some some chickens that have 2:31:39.959 --> 2:31:44.879 been unwanted by intensive chicken farms, and we've brought them 2:31:45.120 --> 2:31:48.800 home to to rear and have another life at home 2:31:48.840 --> 2:31:51.400 with us and miractus. They all started laying again and 2:31:52.840 --> 2:31:55.720 and and living on for another couple of years of 2:31:56.080 --> 2:31:59.360 a happy life being being able to go out and 2:31:59.440 --> 2:32:02.199 in when it eastern and wander around a big space 2:32:02.920 --> 2:32:09.040 suitably fenced against the the invading foxes and dogs and 2:32:09.120 --> 2:32:11.400 cats that might otherwise do them hard. But you know 2:32:11.520 --> 2:32:13.640 that I'm I'm a bit of a softy when it 2:32:13.720 --> 2:32:17.760 comes to animals, and um, I don't feel embarrassed to 2:32:18.080 --> 2:32:20.920 say that. Not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 2:32:21.520 --> 2:32:24.080 You have your opinion. For those who were fans of 2:32:24.280 --> 2:32:28.280 rock of Jeff Row Tall, they can't understand it. There 2:32:28.320 --> 2:32:31.840 are dozens of acts that should not be in the 2:32:32.240 --> 2:32:33.960 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. If Jeff row Toll 2:32:34.080 --> 2:32:37.360 is not in it, what is your viewpoint of that? Well, 2:32:37.440 --> 2:32:39.520 I you know, I appreciate that people who are the 2:32:39.560 --> 2:32:41.640 best will in the world, you know, would be campaigning 2:32:41.840 --> 2:32:45.840 or arguing for Jeter Hotel being inducted into the Rock 2:32:45.879 --> 2:32:50.960 and Roll Hall of Fame. But first of all, when 2:32:51.000 --> 2:32:53.200 the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame opened in Cleveland, 2:32:53.240 --> 2:32:56.200 I was one of the first people to, having been asked, 2:32:56.240 --> 2:32:59.920 I donated some memorabilia to the Rock and Roll Hall 2:33:00.000 --> 2:33:02.160 of Fame. So we were in there right from the right. 2:33:02.200 --> 2:33:04.480 From the get go. Jet Hotel was present in the 2:33:04.560 --> 2:33:06.840 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But if we mean 2:33:07.160 --> 2:33:09.600 being inducted into the rock and Roll Hall of Fame, 2:33:09.640 --> 2:33:12.320 that's a different matter. And I've always felt that the 2:33:12.360 --> 2:33:14.920 American Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is that peculiarly 2:33:14.959 --> 2:33:20.160 American institution to celebrate American music and its influence perhaps 2:33:20.240 --> 2:33:26.520 elsewhere in some cases, but it's about musical Americana past, present, 2:33:26.680 --> 2:33:28.960 and hopefully in the future. And I don't believe that 2:33:29.040 --> 2:33:33.280 Jester Hotel really qualifies in regard to that, compared to 2:33:33.320 --> 2:33:35.320 many other artists. So I think it would be a 2:33:35.400 --> 2:33:37.600 bit of an anomaly for Jester Hotel to be in 2:33:38.920 --> 2:33:41.240 inducted into the American Rock and Hall rock and Roll 2:33:41.280 --> 2:33:43.800 Hall of Fame. Equally, there are some other bands who 2:33:43.840 --> 2:33:46.280 have been I also don't think really belonging there for 2:33:46.480 --> 2:33:50.120 similar reasons. But you know, there are there are many, many, 2:33:50.320 --> 2:33:52.840 many American acts who do deserve because they may not 2:33:52.920 --> 2:33:57.959 be very famous or necessarily have left so much behind them, 2:33:58.040 --> 2:34:01.520 but they are still influential, unimportant, and I don't think 2:34:01.560 --> 2:34:06.480 I've been given the recognition that perhaps they they deserve 2:34:07.480 --> 2:34:12.400 as part of that big, an evolving story of American music. 2:34:13.320 --> 2:34:15.400 So you know, That's how I feel about it. But 2:34:15.520 --> 2:34:17.800 we could go into the sort of mechanics of it, 2:34:17.920 --> 2:34:22.879 which is that I think the board that make these decisions. 2:34:23.040 --> 2:34:24.720 I'm not sure if it still does, but it certainly 2:34:24.760 --> 2:34:30.080 did have a guy Jan Whenner, who was the editor 2:34:30.120 --> 2:34:33.200 of Rolling Stone, who had a particular dislike of jeth Hotel. 2:34:33.240 --> 2:34:35.480 And I've heard from a number of sources that you know, 2:34:35.600 --> 2:34:39.680 he absolutely would you hate jeth Hotel and wouldn't dream 2:34:39.760 --> 2:34:45.320 of of of us being in there. And that's fine, 2:34:45.440 --> 2:34:48.040 you know, I'm for different reasons, I kind of agree 2:34:48.080 --> 2:34:50.040 with him. You know, I don't know the man at all, 2:34:50.120 --> 2:34:52.840 never met him, but you know, he's entitled to his opinion, 2:34:52.959 --> 2:34:56.880 and that may be one of the reasons that that 2:34:57.680 --> 2:35:01.120 it's never been broke. But it would be difficult for 2:35:01.200 --> 2:35:03.640 me right now if somebody said, oh, guess what them, 2:35:04.440 --> 2:35:06.000 you know, we want to induct you into the Rock 2:35:06.040 --> 2:35:08.600 and Roll Hall of Fame? Are you were you available 2:35:09.120 --> 2:35:11.200 two months next Tuesday to come to l A and 2:35:11.800 --> 2:35:13.360 be to be there? And I'm afraid I would have 2:35:13.400 --> 2:35:15.520 to say I'm sorry, I'm not. I'm supposed to be 2:35:16.200 --> 2:35:20.640 supposed to be uh supposed to be playing in Santiago 2:35:20.760 --> 2:35:23.880 de Compostella in Spain that day, or I actually got 2:35:23.959 --> 2:35:27.200 to be in Moscow to do a show, um, or 2:35:27.440 --> 2:35:30.840 maybe I'm just washing my hair, but the chances are 2:35:31.000 --> 2:35:33.040 I would not be inclined, just as I didn't want to, 2:35:33.440 --> 2:35:35.600 even as the record company wanted to pay for the 2:35:35.680 --> 2:35:38.080 tickets for to fly us over to l A for 2:35:38.160 --> 2:35:41.440 the Grammy ceremony, which they would convincedly wouldn't win, so 2:35:41.480 --> 2:35:43.480 there's no point in wasting their money. But even if 2:35:43.520 --> 2:35:46.480 they had, I wouldn't really have wanted to go. I 2:35:46.640 --> 2:35:48.800 just don't really like long hold travel for the sake 2:35:48.840 --> 2:35:53.160 of it. I can I can be pressed, pushed, nudged 2:35:53.280 --> 2:35:56.760 onto an airplane if if I'm actually going to work 2:35:56.840 --> 2:35:58.400 and it's the band and the crew and we're all 2:35:58.400 --> 2:36:01.880 trying to earn a living. They are, But so just 2:36:02.000 --> 2:36:04.800 for the fun and games of some awards ceremony or something, 2:36:05.280 --> 2:36:07.000 my heart's not in it. I don't think I would 2:36:07.000 --> 2:36:08.680 want to go, and it would then be seen as 2:36:08.800 --> 2:36:10.520 very rude. If I had to turn around and say, 2:36:10.640 --> 2:36:11.920 you know what, I don't want to come. I don't 2:36:11.959 --> 2:36:14.320 want to do that. People were just thinking I was. 2:36:14.480 --> 2:36:16.720 It was sour grapes. I was just saying it because 2:36:16.760 --> 2:36:21.360 I was miffed. I was peeved that we've not been 2:36:21.560 --> 2:36:23.520 previously asked. So I'm in a bit of a no 2:36:23.640 --> 2:36:28.760 win situation there. But in telling you this, since you 2:36:28.879 --> 2:36:30.480 were listened to by a lot of people in the 2:36:31.440 --> 2:36:34.440 in the media and in the music business, it will 2:36:34.480 --> 2:36:37.880 hopefully serve as a warning to anybody in the both 2:36:37.920 --> 2:36:41.200 in the Grammy system and in the the Rock and 2:36:41.320 --> 2:36:43.040 Roll Hall of Fame. There's no point in asking him 2:36:43.040 --> 2:36:46.640 because he's made it pretty clear he's not going to come. Well, 2:36:46.680 --> 2:36:48.360 there are a number of acts who have finally been 2:36:48.440 --> 2:36:53.160 inducted who didn't come, and uh, most notably Todd Rongwan 2:36:53.240 --> 2:36:56.080 in this last year. But without going down that path, 2:36:56.200 --> 2:36:58.920 I must admit that I was anxious about doing this. 2:36:59.480 --> 2:37:02.000 I only met you once, not that you would ever remember. 2:37:02.080 --> 2:37:04.280 I think the show was at the Kodak and it 2:37:04.400 --> 2:37:07.119 was after the show. I'm sophisticated enough to know it's 2:37:07.240 --> 2:37:10.200 very hard to come down, but you have a reputation 2:37:10.920 --> 2:37:16.560 as being somewhat difficult. So I am stunned that you're 2:37:16.600 --> 2:37:20.720 such a rack and tour and you're so loquacious. Now 2:37:20.920 --> 2:37:22.680 to me, I could talk to you till the end 2:37:22.720 --> 2:37:24.800 of time. I've given you more time than I've given 2:37:24.800 --> 2:37:29.400 anybody else. But you also say you're a loner. So 2:37:30.120 --> 2:37:32.640 is it that you don't suffer fools and there are 2:37:32.680 --> 2:37:36.760 certain people you'll talk to, or is it really you're 2:37:36.800 --> 2:37:40.320 talking to me but you'd rather be alone. Well, you know, 2:37:41.840 --> 2:37:44.480 part of it, you know, brutally it is. It's part 2:37:44.520 --> 2:37:47.320 of the job. You know, you've you've got to overcome 2:37:47.520 --> 2:37:52.000 that desire for a seclusion. You get on with it. 2:37:52.120 --> 2:37:53.600 You know, you just have to get on with doing it. 2:37:53.680 --> 2:37:55.880 And if you're gonna do it, do it graciously, do 2:37:55.959 --> 2:37:59.160 it nicely, smile on the face, cracking joe and trying 2:37:59.200 --> 2:38:01.160 to try to make in it, trying to be genuine, 2:38:01.200 --> 2:38:02.760 you know. So that's what I do. If I have 2:38:02.840 --> 2:38:05.080 to do meet and greets after a show, I grown, 2:38:05.160 --> 2:38:08.600 oh my god, it's one of checking my schedule. I'm 2:38:08.640 --> 2:38:11.360 meeting greet and I've got to do these things. It's 2:38:11.440 --> 2:38:14.000 Bob left Set guy. I've heard of him, yeah, And 2:38:14.200 --> 2:38:15.880 by fact that I mean I do remember meeting And 2:38:16.000 --> 2:38:18.199 my wife actually said to me today, said I remember 2:38:18.240 --> 2:38:21.960 meeting him backstage after a show. But you know, I'm 2:38:22.040 --> 2:38:25.920 I'm usually you won't find that many people who said 2:38:26.320 --> 2:38:30.600 I was shirlish or unfriendly or whatever. If if I 2:38:30.640 --> 2:38:32.640 say I'm going to say hello to somebody and meet somebody, 2:38:32.720 --> 2:38:37.119 I I do my best, you know, but but of course, privately, 2:38:37.200 --> 2:38:40.200 I'd probably just rather be, you know, I'd rather be 2:38:40.280 --> 2:38:43.320 heading back to the hotel and watching David Letterman, or 2:38:43.760 --> 2:38:46.520 or you know, getting to bed and going to sleep. 2:38:46.600 --> 2:38:49.960 You know, I'm just not naturally a gregarious and chumby guy. 2:38:50.080 --> 2:38:52.160 But if I'm going to do it, I'm going to 2:38:52.200 --> 2:38:55.640 try and do it properly. Because I've met a couple 2:38:55.680 --> 2:38:59.120 of people who've been churlish and unfriendly and and it's 2:38:59.120 --> 2:39:01.720 a huge just appointment when you when you actually do 2:39:02.120 --> 2:39:07.120 get the impression that someone just is prepared to be 2:39:07.200 --> 2:39:09.440 really rude to you and cut you off just because 2:39:10.800 --> 2:39:14.120 they're not in the mood. And and so I I 2:39:14.240 --> 2:39:16.640 am aware of how that comes across, because I feel 2:39:16.640 --> 2:39:19.800 pretty badly towards off top of my head, two or 2:39:19.840 --> 2:39:23.200 three famous people that I actually said, oh, hi, really 2:39:23.280 --> 2:39:25.480 nice to meet you, Ian Anderson from jether Hotel, and 2:39:25.520 --> 2:39:27.240 they just turned their back on me and walked away. 2:39:27.240 --> 2:39:31.520 And what what did I do? What did that what 2:39:31.640 --> 2:39:35.039 did I do to upset you? Van mentioned mentioning their names, 2:39:35.560 --> 2:39:38.879 and so it's a it's you know, I'm I'm aware 2:39:38.879 --> 2:39:40.880 of how much it kind of hurts if you if 2:39:40.920 --> 2:39:44.440 you're a fan of somebody and then they and they 2:39:44.520 --> 2:39:48.800 treat you in a off hand or a dismissive way, 2:39:49.000 --> 2:39:52.600 is quite hurtful. So I would hope there aren't too 2:39:52.640 --> 2:39:55.440 many people who would have that tale to tell about me, 2:39:55.520 --> 2:39:56.920 But a lot of people who will say, I know, 2:39:57.000 --> 2:39:58.600 he just doesn't like to meet people and like to 2:39:58.600 --> 2:40:02.240 say hello. He looks say they're probably right, but I wouldn't. 2:40:02.480 --> 2:40:04.640 I would hope they wouldn't. They won't be talking about 2:40:04.680 --> 2:40:08.280 personal experience as much as anecdotal stuff that goes around. 2:40:08.400 --> 2:40:10.800 But you know, I'm a pretty friendly guy to most 2:40:10.879 --> 2:40:13.840 people when i'm you know, when I when I have 2:40:14.000 --> 2:40:16.680 to do it, when I'm confronted it was somebody stops 2:40:16.720 --> 2:40:19.120 me in the street. It's a fan, you know. And 2:40:19.280 --> 2:40:22.280 most of the time I'm gonna say, hi, really nice 2:40:22.280 --> 2:40:26.240 to meet you, thank you, thanks for you know, buying 2:40:26.240 --> 2:40:28.560 a record or do whatever. But if they then produce, 2:40:29.080 --> 2:40:32.160 you know, twenty albums from a from a bag that 2:40:32.320 --> 2:40:33.920 I know, we're going to end up on eBay that 2:40:33.959 --> 2:40:36.960 I'm probably going to lose my tolerance fairly quickly. And 2:40:37.040 --> 2:40:39.200 in these COVID times, and I've had the experience of 2:40:39.280 --> 2:40:41.960 this during the last few months. Is it's really not 2:40:42.120 --> 2:40:45.040 a great time to be grabbing hold of me and 2:40:45.879 --> 2:40:48.080 trying to get me to sign things or hug me 2:40:48.160 --> 2:40:51.120 while you're doing a selfie. You know, we're in the 2:40:51.160 --> 2:40:54.520 middle of a pandemic right now, and I do not 2:40:54.680 --> 2:40:56.160 want to be the one who puts my band and 2:40:56.240 --> 2:40:58.560 crew out of work by getting COVID when I could 2:40:58.560 --> 2:41:01.920 avoid it. So, um, you know, I'm probably a little 2:41:02.000 --> 2:41:07.480 more inclined to be avoiding people right at the moment, 2:41:07.600 --> 2:41:09.119 and that may go on for some months to come. 2:41:09.320 --> 2:41:12.160 So I've tried to say two people, please, you know, 2:41:12.879 --> 2:41:15.960 from a distance, I will thank you and give you 2:41:16.000 --> 2:41:17.800 a smile and you won't see it because I'm wearing 2:41:17.840 --> 2:41:20.400 a mask, but I'm smiling at you. Trust me. But 2:41:20.879 --> 2:41:22.920 let's just leave it at there. That's just not trying 2:41:23.000 --> 2:41:26.680 to be too pressing about it. But what about your 2:41:26.760 --> 2:41:29.920 personal life? How social are you and your personal life? 2:41:30.040 --> 2:41:32.760 Is there anybody you email with every day or talk 2:41:32.879 --> 2:41:35.320 to every day? Do you go to dinner parties or 2:41:35.440 --> 2:41:38.480 you really more of a home body loaner. Well, I 2:41:38.760 --> 2:41:41.280 have a family and my my my daughter's family, and 2:41:41.320 --> 2:41:44.640 my son's family live you know, pretty close by, you know, 2:41:44.920 --> 2:41:47.720 quarter of an hour, half an hour, so we see 2:41:47.760 --> 2:41:49.920 them probably two or three times a week. My son 2:41:50.000 --> 2:41:52.199 in law comes almost every day to take the dogs 2:41:52.240 --> 2:41:55.600 for a walk. Since he's he's out of work even 2:41:55.640 --> 2:42:00.040 more than I am. Being a thespian and pandemic and 2:42:00.200 --> 2:42:02.480 other things have meant it's been very difficult for him 2:42:02.520 --> 2:42:05.600 to do the things that he's should have been during 2:42:05.640 --> 2:42:08.720 the last couple of years. But um, yeah, you know, 2:42:08.760 --> 2:42:12.040 we we were pretty close as a family and I 2:42:12.280 --> 2:42:17.160 we have a few friends, most of them long standing friends, 2:42:18.240 --> 2:42:22.360 not not in the music industry, but um but you know, 2:42:22.440 --> 2:42:25.440 I mean I exchanged emails recently with who who was it? 2:42:26.480 --> 2:42:31.720 Um Uh. Mark Armond from Soft Cell is a big buddy. 2:42:31.959 --> 2:42:37.440 Unlikely because of the age difference in the musical style difference, 2:42:37.560 --> 2:42:39.960 but but he's become a big friend in the last 2:42:40.000 --> 2:42:42.720 few years and we do consciers together. He's a guest 2:42:42.760 --> 2:42:45.040 of mine on our cathedral shows every year when we 2:42:45.959 --> 2:42:49.560 do fundraises for churches and cathedrals and Tony Iomi, who 2:42:49.680 --> 2:42:52.560 sent me an email at Christmas and I must get 2:42:52.600 --> 2:42:55.640 together and have lunch. And you say these things, but 2:42:55.920 --> 2:42:58.960 you know, in reality, another year goes by, another two 2:42:59.040 --> 2:43:01.520 years go by, and you've sort of forgotten to do it. 2:43:01.640 --> 2:43:04.440 But I guess again, you know, if you're getting older, 2:43:04.440 --> 2:43:07.600 you're thinking, well, if I don't have lunch with Tony, 2:43:07.760 --> 2:43:09.600 one of us is going to pop off sometime soon. 2:43:09.720 --> 2:43:13.160 And you know, it's not like we're lifelong friends, but 2:43:13.280 --> 2:43:17.200 we've known each other since nine a little bit, you know, 2:43:17.280 --> 2:43:19.959 and he's one of those people that you know, he's 2:43:19.959 --> 2:43:24.359 a good guy. And you know other people I suppose, 2:43:24.600 --> 2:43:30.840 um um that I don't really communicate with that that much, 2:43:30.959 --> 2:43:34.120 but there are a few people who are not necessarily musicians, 2:43:34.200 --> 2:43:37.480 but you know, politicians or sports people or journalists and 2:43:37.640 --> 2:43:40.760 people that I particularly at Christmas. You know, emails and 2:43:41.600 --> 2:43:45.119 best wishes fly back and forth for a few days 2:43:45.240 --> 2:43:50.280 of Christmas and New Year. Um. But it's um, you know, 2:43:50.400 --> 2:43:53.680 it's it's just in balance. Really, I suppose probably true 2:43:53.720 --> 2:43:56.760 to say I have less less less of a a 2:43:56.840 --> 2:44:00.400 gregarious social life on a personal level than your average person. 2:44:00.520 --> 2:44:05.160 But it's not entirely absent um. It does, it does, 2:44:06.520 --> 2:44:08.840 it does get tempered, however, by the fact that at 2:44:08.920 --> 2:44:12.640 this particular point in time, getting together for a boozy 2:44:12.760 --> 2:44:16.320 lunch is probably not a good idea, since we and 2:44:16.720 --> 2:44:19.040 in your country were in the throes of the O 2:44:19.200 --> 2:44:23.680 macron dynamic surge. And although there are some signs at 2:44:23.760 --> 2:44:27.280 least where I live that things are tapering off. I mean, 2:44:27.280 --> 2:44:30.680 our infection rate would appear to have gone down to 2:44:31.560 --> 2:44:34.440 just over half during the last two weeks, which from 2:44:34.600 --> 2:44:38.680 very high levels, but it does appear to be seriously 2:44:38.760 --> 2:44:41.920 on the turn, and hopefully hospitalizations and deaths will soon follow, 2:44:42.760 --> 2:44:44.800 and maybe in you know, a week or two, you'll 2:44:44.840 --> 2:44:47.120 see the same thing at least in some US states 2:44:47.800 --> 2:44:50.400 that it is beginning to drop, and there are signs 2:44:50.480 --> 2:44:53.920 of that already in Europe. Europe in the US seemed 2:44:53.920 --> 2:44:55.520 to have been about three or four weeks behind the 2:44:55.680 --> 2:45:01.879 UK all the way through this um and apart from Italy, 2:45:01.959 --> 2:45:04.720 which started off very badly, but we all caught up 2:45:04.760 --> 2:45:07.480 with that pretty quickly. But since then Britain has tended 2:45:07.520 --> 2:45:10.560 to be one of the most infected countries with the 2:45:10.640 --> 2:45:15.080 highest impact on on our lives, and the rest have 2:45:15.240 --> 2:45:18.000 been you know, three four or five six weeks behind 2:45:18.600 --> 2:45:22.600 and so and then some European countries are even further 2:45:22.720 --> 2:45:25.280 behind and O Macron has not even really got there yet. 2:45:25.360 --> 2:45:29.199 So and their countries with you know, maybe twenty thcent 2:45:29.360 --> 2:45:32.480 vaccination rates, Boy, are they going to be in big trouble. 2:45:33.560 --> 2:45:36.600 But you know, I think in America, I've spoke to 2:45:36.720 --> 2:45:39.240 sending email from my American agents a few days ago 2:45:39.400 --> 2:45:42.800 suggesting some periods of times have come back, and there 2:45:42.840 --> 2:45:44.640 are a few shows in the USA in two thousand 2:45:44.680 --> 2:45:46.960 and twenty three, and I'd be reasonably confident that that 2:45:47.080 --> 2:45:51.440 can happen. As I'm hopeful, if not entirely confident, that 2:45:52.000 --> 2:45:54.440 most of the shows in two thousand and twenty two 2:45:55.640 --> 2:46:01.160 we'll go ahead, albeit some of them will have been rescheduled. Um. 2:46:01.360 --> 2:46:04.440 But you know, I'm trying to be optimistic about all 2:46:04.480 --> 2:46:05.720 of this, But at the same time, I've got to 2:46:05.760 --> 2:46:13.120 be realistic and be prepared to to go um begging 2:46:13.200 --> 2:46:15.640 the airlines for a refund on the tickets you bought 2:46:15.680 --> 2:46:20.040 that you know can't use. Actually managed just two days 2:46:20.080 --> 2:46:22.560 ago I finally got a refund from the very last 2:46:22.840 --> 2:46:25.320 flights that I had not been refund if I finally 2:46:25.400 --> 2:46:29.400 came through and they were from May two thousand and twenty. 2:46:30.120 --> 2:46:34.000 I finally got the refunds two days ago. They actually 2:46:34.040 --> 2:46:36.840 paid up brilliant, you know, so there is some honor 2:46:36.920 --> 2:46:40.200 even amongst thieves. I wouldn't go that far. Yeah, I 2:46:40.240 --> 2:46:43.520 had a flight like just after COVID began. I was 2:46:43.600 --> 2:46:45.480 stunned when they gave me my money back, which was 2:46:45.600 --> 2:46:48.840 over a year. In any event, Ian, this has been wonderful. 2:46:49.400 --> 2:46:52.880 Listen to the tracks that were already outside city Sisters. 2:46:53.000 --> 2:46:56.000 I really like I look forward to seeing you live again. 2:46:56.400 --> 2:46:58.920 I'm sure even more you look forward to being on 2:46:59.040 --> 2:47:01.440 the road. Thanks so much for taking the time. A 2:47:01.560 --> 2:47:03.400 great pleasure. Nice too, Nice to see you and talk 2:47:03.440 --> 2:47:06.840 to you, and great to see you're still as active 2:47:07.000 --> 2:47:11.760 and there's much a voice to be listened to amongst 2:47:12.120 --> 2:47:15.840 fans and the industry alike. So you keep at it 2:47:15.920 --> 2:47:19.840 and become filled with the same desperation as I am 2:47:19.959 --> 2:47:21.760 that it's not time to quit. Yes, and there's more 2:47:21.840 --> 2:47:23.720 to do. No, no, no, no. I'm not quite as 2:47:23.800 --> 2:47:26.680 old as you, but I'm feeling it and I'm not retired. 2:47:26.720 --> 2:47:28.800 You know. This is my one and only so in 2:47:28.840 --> 2:47:31.880 any event, thanks so much until next time. This is 2:47:32.000 --> 2:47:32.879 bad WEPST