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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob west Said's podcasts. My

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Speaker 1: guest into two legendary one of the time, the one

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Speaker 1: and only and Anderson of Jeff Wild Tom Ian so

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Speaker 1: glad to have you on the podcast Big Fear. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's just a pleasure to be here. And thank goodness,

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Speaker 1: there is only one of me, the one and only.

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Speaker 1: Imagine imagine that there were two of me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: people will be recoiling in horror at that screeching flute

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Speaker 1: permeating every fabric of their being. It would be even

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Speaker 1: worse than it already is. I frankly, have always discovered

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Speaker 1: that the audiences are seduced during a live performance into

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Speaker 1: thinking I quite like the flute, But in reality it's

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Speaker 1: a horrible, horrible noise, and it's okay for a few minutes,

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Speaker 1: but for two hours, goodness me, I'm surprised they actually

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Speaker 1: remain in the in the venue. I have my cats

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Speaker 1: like the flute. My dogs run a mile, my wife

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Speaker 1: runs a mile, and and and she's an elderly lady.

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Speaker 1: But you know James Galway, he says that he has

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Speaker 1: played with you. He's a big flutist. Well you know,

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Speaker 1: he's um he's a big flattist, but he's a he's

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Speaker 1: a damned liar. We've we never played together. We were

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Speaker 1: supposed to play together in a concert somewhere in the USA,

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Speaker 1: and he was he was performing at the same place

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Speaker 1: the night after we were on and so we met

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Speaker 1: up and I sent him some music. We're gonna was

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Speaker 1: gonna come up on stage and we're going to play together.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I'd like to think I like to

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Speaker 1: think he would have done it if it wasn't for

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was a bit exhausted and jet

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Speaker 1: lagged and and probably a bit overwhelmed with the idea

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Speaker 1: of being on a stage with noisy people, and it

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Speaker 1: was out of his comfort zone. So I think, frankly

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Speaker 1: he chickened out. But we we've always talked about doing

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Speaker 1: something together, and on the one and only occasion when

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Speaker 1: we could have done um, he he checking out. He

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Speaker 1: just didn't show up for sound checks. So it was

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Speaker 1: a bit embarrassing. But anyway, I mean, I'm in touch

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Speaker 1: with James from time to time, elderly gentleman and in

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Speaker 1: the twilight years, just just a little bit ahead of me,

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Speaker 1: but not too much. But one of his proteges. Andrea Grimanelli,

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Speaker 1: who James was was a tutor to m he he

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Speaker 1: and I have played together many times, and in fact

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Speaker 1: we played played together in the Vatican Christmas concert just

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Speaker 1: before Christmas, played with with Andrea Grimanelli. And he's a

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Speaker 1: brilliant soloist, classical flute player and very nice and gentlemanly

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Speaker 1: guy who who's a huge as a huge relationship, great

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Speaker 1: fan of James Goldway, and we we we often chat

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Speaker 1: about it and our mutual experience. But that's classical music.

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Speaker 1: That's not what I do. I am just the I

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Speaker 1: am just the class cloud who sits at the back

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Speaker 1: and makes rude noises. Well, without being too self deprecating,

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Speaker 1: how do you read your flute playing? Well, the thing

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Speaker 1: is that you know, I began as a guitar player,

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Speaker 1: not as a flute player. So I was as a teenager,

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Speaker 1: you know, struggling to try and learn to play a

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Speaker 1: few notes of essentially what we're blues improvisation. And then

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Speaker 1: when I was some nineteen maybe eighteen or nineteen, I

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Speaker 1: heard Eric Clapton. It just joined John Male's Blues Breakers,

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Speaker 1: and that famous album cover where it Clapton is reading

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Speaker 1: a children's comic called The Beano. And when I heard

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Speaker 1: Eric Clapton, I thought, oh, this is um. This is

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Speaker 1: an object lesson in in um finding something else to

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Speaker 1: play as a musical instrument. So I said about finding

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Speaker 1: an alternative, and I traded in my trustee Fender strat

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Speaker 1: for a you know, it was probably worth today. I

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Speaker 1: mean the sixties strap that belonged to Lemmy, Lemmy of Motorhead.

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Speaker 1: It was the previous owner when he was a rhythm

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Speaker 1: guitarist and Reverend Black and the Rocking Vicars rock band.

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Speaker 1: How did you get the strap from Lemmy? Well, I

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Speaker 1: he was broke, so he had to sell it and

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Speaker 1: I took on the the debt, if you like. And

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Speaker 1: so I I got this this instrument, played it for

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Speaker 1: a year so and and then traded it in for

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Speaker 1: a thirty dollar flute. It was a basic student model

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Speaker 1: flute and seemed because that guitar today probably you know,

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Speaker 1: being a real genuine vintage sixties strap to a Japanese

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Speaker 1: collector would probably worth a thirty grand, forty grand maybe

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Speaker 1: if you add in the fact that it used to

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Speaker 1: belong to me, and before that it belonged to Lemmy.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't seem like a very good deal, you know,

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Speaker 1: to part with that and then take on a thirty

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Speaker 1: dollar flute by way of exchange. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: probably one of the best business investments I could possibly

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Speaker 1: have made as it turned down. But of all the instruments,

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Speaker 1: the keyboards, the sacks, the drums, why the flute, Well,

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Speaker 1: there was no sensible reason whatsoever. I went went to

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Speaker 1: trade in my guitar and I looked around on the

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Speaker 1: walls of the music store and the sun. It had

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Speaker 1: been raining. It was a dreary day, I remember, in

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Speaker 1: in a place called Litham in Lancashire in the north

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Speaker 1: of England, and suddenly the sun came out and shone

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Speaker 1: through the window of the music store and glistened on

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Speaker 1: the on something that was hanging on the wall, which

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Speaker 1: was a flute, and it just beckoned. It just said

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Speaker 1: by me. And I had no idea how to play

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Speaker 1: a flute. It just seemed like a nice, shiny, well engineered,

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Speaker 1: rather attractive object. And I have a soft spot for

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Speaker 1: things that are a good engineering in a well designed,

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Speaker 1: well developed and I just thought this looked like it

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Speaker 1: was a sort of musical Swiss watch. Really, so I said,

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Speaker 1: I'll have that with no idea how to play it,

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Speaker 1: and I worked walked out with the flute, which for

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Speaker 1: the next few months I couldn't get a note out of.

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Speaker 1: And somebody finally told me it's like blowing across the

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Speaker 1: top of a Coca cola bottle, you know, you blow

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Speaker 1: at the right angle, it makes a makes a musical note.

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Speaker 1: And that finally dawned on me as I got the flute,

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Speaker 1: I think in August of nine seven, and somewhere in

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Speaker 1: mid December I actually managed to get a note out

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Speaker 1: of this flute. It was a note of G, and

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Speaker 1: then I found a note of E, and then A

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Speaker 1: and B, and then I had the blue scale. So

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Speaker 1: by the beginning of January, when Jethro actually became Jethrotel,

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Speaker 1: I was able to play not only just to play

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Speaker 1: a little bit of flute, but to play improvised blue

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Speaker 1: solos because I just translated what I thought I knew

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Speaker 1: from guitar playing into into the flute well, even though

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Speaker 1: I didn't know the proper fingering, and I was just

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Speaker 1: you know, making loud noises to try and equal the

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Speaker 1: impact of the electric guitar in the band. But it worked.

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Speaker 1: Out pretty well. I think I I think I probably

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Speaker 1: buy February March, people were beginning to talk about Jeth

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Speaker 1: Hotel not just as another blues band, but a blues

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Speaker 1: band with a guy who played the flute standing on

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Speaker 1: one leg, which seemed to catch on in a way

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Speaker 1: with the media and as a as a kind of

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Speaker 1: an image as a logo. From that day onwards. We

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Speaker 1: were a little different to Savoy Brown and Chicken Shack

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Speaker 1: and Fleetwood mac And and the other blues bands of

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Speaker 1: that era that also played at the famous Marquee Club

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Speaker 1: in London. Okay, all over the web it says that

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Speaker 1: your daughter picked up the flute and then you ultimately

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Speaker 1: learned you were using the long wrong fingering and how

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Speaker 1: to re learn it. Is that apocryphal or is that

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Speaker 1: a real story. That's a real story. She she asked

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Speaker 1: me when she was at school. I guess she was

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Speaker 1: about eight years old or something, and said, oh, we

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Speaker 1: we we've got to learn to play a musical instrument,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of is just something that you've got

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Speaker 1: that I could borrow too to play. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've got drum kids, I've got saxophones, I've

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Speaker 1: got a whole bunch of stuff, but you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: the flute is the easiest one. And so I gave

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Speaker 1: her a flute, one of my old stage flutes, and

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Speaker 1: I made sure that it kind of played okay, and

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Speaker 1: she took it to school, and she came back and

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Speaker 1: had some little book, you know, how to Play the Flute,

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Speaker 1: Chapter one, and it was it was a musical notation,

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Speaker 1: which means nothing to me. But she was playing through

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Speaker 1: a few notes and I ventured to say, look, actually,

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Speaker 1: when you're playing this note and you do it like this,

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Speaker 1: and she and she looked at where my fingers were

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Speaker 1: on the instrument, said was that that's not what it

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Speaker 1: says in the book, Daddy, That's not what you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to put your little finger on the right hand. So

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Speaker 1: I said, rubbish, But of course she was right. It

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Speaker 1: was I'd been all that time. That's just somewhere around

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Speaker 1: about nineteen eighty nine or something. I've been doing it

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Speaker 1: wrongly for all that time. And it was a bit embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: But I then actually went off to to Bombay Mumbai,

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Speaker 1: although it was still Bombay at that time, and it

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Speaker 1: was the day after the India bombings, and Mumbai and

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Speaker 1: I arrived to do a preordained press conference before we

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Speaker 1: knew about the terrorist attack. So I was about the

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Speaker 1: only foreigner in town. Everybody had fled and so I

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Speaker 1: had the entire press and media of of of Mumbai

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Speaker 1: came to my press conference because they had nothing else

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Speaker 1: to do. There's nobody else to talk to, and as

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Speaker 1: a result, we we we chatted about various things, and

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Speaker 1: when I was back in my hotel room, oddly there

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Speaker 1: was a fax machine because my hotel was right next

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Speaker 1: to the one that got blown up, and there's a

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Speaker 1: fax machine in my room. And I thought, I'll I'll

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Speaker 1: phone one of the music stores in London and see

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Speaker 1: if they can fax over to me a flute fingering

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Speaker 1: chart to show me all the fingering positions for the

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Speaker 1: different notes, which they did, and I looked with horror

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Speaker 1: at the end. Resultant thought, that is going to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, very very difficult for me to relearn at

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Speaker 1: this point in my life, in almost twenty years after

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Speaker 1: I first played the flute, and to begin with, I

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Speaker 1: was so daunted by it. I thought, oh no, I'll

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Speaker 1: just stick with what I've got, But it kept luring

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Speaker 1: me back in with the idea that I should try

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Speaker 1: and do it properly. And so it took me about

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Speaker 1: six months really to incorporate the correct fingering into my

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Speaker 1: performances on stage, because of course I got set in

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Speaker 1: my ways and took a while to make the adjustment.

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Speaker 1: But it was worthwhile because they then gave me the

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Speaker 1: the scope to play at a more controllable different volume

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Speaker 1: levels and and and somewhat more in tune than I

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Speaker 1: had been, so it worked out pretty well. And then

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Speaker 1: I moved from playing closed whole flutes where all the

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Speaker 1: keys are covered, which is kind of easy for beginners,

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Speaker 1: playing open, open whole flutes, which allow you to kind

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Speaker 1: of slur notes and bend notes a little bit like

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Speaker 1: playing a blues guitar. And I made all that transition

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Speaker 1: really in nine nine, I guess, and and I never

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Speaker 1: looked back except to wonder why on earth I hadn't

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Speaker 1: learned to play it properly in the first place. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned you gave your daughter a road flute from

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Speaker 1: the stage. What would be the difference between a road

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Speaker 1: flute and a flute you keep at home and using

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Speaker 1: the studio monetary value? Basically, because you know, when you're

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Speaker 1: traveling around the world, and you're apart from the fact

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Speaker 1: that you're your flutes are going to be subject to

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of wear and tear, it's also that

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Speaker 1: you know you have to leave them in hotel rooms,

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Speaker 1: and or if you decide you don't want to leave

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Speaker 1: in a hotel room, you've got to put it around

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Speaker 1: your neck and go up into the depths of some

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Speaker 1: darkened Eastern European town, taking your life and your flute

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Speaker 1: in your hands, in order to try and find a

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Speaker 1: good takeaway curry or you know, or an empty restaurant

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Speaker 1: to eat in and and and get mugged along the way.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a little nerve racking. So I've never

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Speaker 1: traveled with flutes of any huge value. I always tend

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Speaker 1: to I mean, they're kind of intermediate flutes, but frankly

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Speaker 1: not worth mugging me for. If you're gonna mug me,

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Speaker 1: take my watch, leave the flute. That's my advice. Now,

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Speaker 1: with most musical equipment and sports equipment, people who at

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Speaker 1: the elite level, there's a difference, like a pair of

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Speaker 1: skis or a guitar. This is my favorite. Do you

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Speaker 1: have a favorite flute where they all pretty much sound

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Speaker 1: the same? Well, going back to James Galway, it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting you know, he did a survey. I mean he

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Speaker 1: had lots and lots of flutes. I mean I know

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Speaker 1: because I've seen them. You've showed me the the cover

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Speaker 1: that contains all of his flutes, and I mean there

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Speaker 1: must have been twenty different flutes in there. And he

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Speaker 1: he did a sort of test to try and play

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Speaker 1: them all one after the other, playing exactly the same

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Speaker 1: piece of quite complex classical music. And I think he

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Speaker 1: amply demonstrated that there was so little difference in the

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Speaker 1: tonal quality of all of these flutes, you know, arranging

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Speaker 1: from basically an advanced student model flute to you know,

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Speaker 1: eighteen carrot gold flute that was probably costing, and there

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Speaker 1: was a little difference in it. And I actually replicated

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Speaker 1: exactly the same thing just a few weeks ago, when

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Speaker 1: I knowing that I was starting work on a new

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Speaker 1: album with a lot of flute involved in it, that

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Speaker 1: I did the same thing. I played a few flutes

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Speaker 1: one after the other on the same audio file and

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Speaker 1: listen to them back, and you know, you could detect

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Speaker 1: a tiny little difference, but it was much less than

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Speaker 1: it appeared to me when I play the flute, you

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Speaker 1: know you because you reson It resonates in your skull

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Speaker 1: as well as the sound of the instrument from the

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Speaker 1: ambushure whole and the sound that comes out of the

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Speaker 1: open tone hurls of the flute. It sounds more different

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Speaker 1: to you, but to a high quality microphone sitting you know,

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Speaker 1: thirty centimeters roughly one ft for you guys away from

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Speaker 1: your your flute. It's all my undetectable the difference. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, I was recording something for somebody else. It

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Speaker 1: was doing performing a guest thing for some other artists,

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Speaker 1: and I used I used two different flutes to to

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Speaker 1: to play so that the flute part that was my

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Speaker 1: contribution to his record. And when it came to it,

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Speaker 1: I realized there was absolutely no difference detectable between when

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Speaker 1: I've been playing one flute as opposed to you know,

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds later I switched to using the other flute.

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Speaker 1: Do you really couldn't tell? So I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: any great difference when it comes to what you take

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Speaker 1: on the road to play and what you might play

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Speaker 1: because you just like the feel of it or that

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Speaker 1: very subtle nuance that makes one flute different to another.

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Speaker 1: And I think the same thing obtains really for guitars,

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Speaker 1: which is why I've been utterly amazed and and perhaps

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Speaker 1: a little irreverent in my response to people like my

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Speaker 1: pile Joe Bonna Messa, who I remember going backstage and

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Speaker 1: seeing it about twenty guitars backstage to play a concert

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Speaker 1: at Hammersmith Odeon in London, and I said, what the

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Speaker 1: hell are all these guitarist for Joe? I mean, what's

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Speaker 1: it about. I mean, you just need one, you know,

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Speaker 1: you sound great? Well, why do you need all these guitars? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I might decided to play a different

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Speaker 1: one that night, or in the song I want to

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Speaker 1: play that one, or whatever. And and I found it.

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Speaker 1: It was quite amusing, you know. But I had to

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Speaker 1: take the mickey out of him because he was like

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Speaker 1: many guitarists. You know, it's a mark of how how

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Speaker 1: great your statue is in the firmament of guitar players,

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Speaker 1: as to how many guitars you take on tour, and

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Speaker 1: how many guitar roads you have to employ to change

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Speaker 1: the strings and tune them up for you, which is

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Speaker 1: the antithesis of life in Jeth Hotel guitar players take

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Speaker 1: one guitar and they change their own strings, and they

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Speaker 1: tune them up by themselves, and nobody is allowed to

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Speaker 1: touch them because your precious instrument. The last thing you

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Speaker 1: want to do is give it to some roadie to

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Speaker 1: handle and smear his bodily juices over the strings when

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Speaker 1: he's probably not watched his hands when he's been to

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Speaker 1: the toilet. So nobody touches my flute, nobody touches my guitar,

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Speaker 1: And the rest of the guys in the band are

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Speaker 1: exactly the same, you know, we we are. Our instruments

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Speaker 1: are the tools of our trade. I say, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you if you were a cop and you had

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Speaker 1: a you know, nine millimeter glocks glock strapped to your

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Speaker 1: your your your your your, your waist, and you know,

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Speaker 1: would you allow somebody else to clean it, to load it,

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Speaker 1: to check it and make sure it was ready to

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Speaker 1: roll when it's a matter of life and death potentially

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Speaker 1: that that thing is going to work for you if

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Speaker 1: you should need it. And I think it's the same

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Speaker 1: thing with musical instruments. You you should take on the

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Speaker 1: responsibility of looking after them yourself, because it is life

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Speaker 1: and death out there. If you pick it up and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't it's out a tune, or it string breaks

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Speaker 1: or something. It's um, you are going to die a

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Speaker 1: horrible death on stage in front of thousands of people

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Speaker 1: and looked like a complete turkey. Okay, So how does

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Speaker 1: Ian Ianerson know Joe Bonamassa. I mean, I know Joe

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Speaker 1: and he's very open, friendly guy. But you have a

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Speaker 1: reputation as being somewhat outside. But in reality, do you

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Speaker 1: know and connect with a lot of musicians or was

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Speaker 1: there a unique story with Bonna Massa? What's your relationship

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Speaker 1: with other musicians? Well, I I do connect in the

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Speaker 1: sense of there are a number of people that I've

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Speaker 1: met and I've known some of whom I played with,

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Speaker 1: but it's probably less than twenty in fifty something years.

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Speaker 1: I know Joe because our agent um said as a

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Speaker 1: suggestion for an opening act, and I was just young

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Speaker 1: kid who's um a bit of a whiz kid making

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Speaker 1: a name for himself, and you know, could he come

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Speaker 1: and do some shows with Jethro Hotel and an added apprehensively, uh,

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Speaker 1: and he actually plays one of your songs during his set.

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Speaker 1: He's a bit of a Jet Hotel fan. So I said, yeah, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: and I think I must have checked out some something

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Speaker 1: on long before YouTube, but it probably found something to

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Speaker 1: listen to. And he seemed he reminded me a little

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Speaker 1: bit of Rory Gallagher in the early days, because he

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Speaker 1: was that kind of a shouty singer rather than a

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Speaker 1: melodic singer, full of energy, full of youthful vigor. Great

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Speaker 1: description of Rory Gallagher, Yeah and well, and and of

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Speaker 1: the young Joe Bonamassa. But you know, he did some

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Speaker 1: shows with us, and he was such a nice, gentlemanly, quiet,

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Speaker 1: really easy going guy. And you know, a couple of

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Speaker 1: guys in this band they were they were okay, and

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Speaker 1: so it was an easy and easy, you know, a

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Speaker 1: good mix in terms of somebody to work with for

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Speaker 1: a few days on tour, and over the years, I

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Speaker 1: suppose we just kept in touch. But the mature um

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Speaker 1: Joe Bonna Massa is someone who I think has evolved

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Speaker 1: beyond the shouty blues. Now he's a much better singer

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Speaker 1: and a much better guitar player. He has the melodic

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Speaker 1: and the restraint that perhaps you would associate it with

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Speaker 1: with the Eric Clapton um. To begin with, he sounded

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Speaker 1: you know, it was just a little bit too How

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Speaker 1: many notes can you cram into a bar and sounds?

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Speaker 1: You know? Um, But if you're an opening out, you've

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Speaker 1: got to do that. You've got, you know, thirty five

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Speaker 1: minutes to struct your stuff and make a name for yourself.

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Speaker 1: You you've really got to turn on the turn on

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Speaker 1: the taps. But you know, once you've become a headline act,

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Speaker 1: you can afford to demonstrate a little taste and restraint

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Speaker 1: and try and try and make every note count, and

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Speaker 1: make the gap between the notes count, because that's the

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Speaker 1: thing that Eric Clapton always had, you know, he knew

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00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: the value of the space between the notes. It's like

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Speaker 1: dramatic clouds in the sky, but you see between the

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Speaker 1: clouds a little touch of infinite blue, and it's the

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00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: space between the clouds, just as the space between the

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Speaker 1: notes and the guitar. So that give it its shape,

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Speaker 1: its form. It's drama, it's dynamic range. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's something Joe's and and and once he grew up

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Speaker 1: a little bit, that's what he learned to do. Me,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, I'm still stuck in the old days.

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Speaker 1: I just crammed as many notes as I can in Okay.

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Speaker 1: You happen to drop curries in there earlier of all

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Speaker 1: the big Jethro Tolfi and I was catching up on

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Speaker 1: you make sure I didn't forget anything, and it said

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Speaker 1: you're a big Indian food expert. Now in America, I

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Speaker 1: remember the Ramones talking about vindaloo. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: what it was. There are a lot of Indian restaurants

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Speaker 1: in America today, but nothing like the curry shops in

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Speaker 1: the UK. So give us a primer on Indian food.

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Speaker 1: People who are un knowledgeable, what should they know about

378
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: Indian food? Well, what they shouldn't know about it is

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00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: that I mean apart from the connection obviously the primary

380
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: connection between Britain as a as a as a nation

381
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: who strutted its stuff across the globe and swept people

382
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: into its um, it's orbit and made such a huge difference,

383
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Speaker 1: some of it bad, some of it good. We inherited

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Speaker 1: Indian food going back into the eight hundreds when the

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Speaker 1: very first Indian restaurant opened up in London and it

386
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Speaker 1: really made its mark. After partition in India seven the

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Speaker 1: year of my birth, when the Hindus and Muslims were

388
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: split up when Pakistan was split up into Pakistan as

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Speaker 1: we know it today and Bangladesh which was which was

390
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: was East Pakistan back then, and so many Indians and

391
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Speaker 1: bangladesh he's and Pakistani's fled the country during the very

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Speaker 1: unpleasant times after the partition and they came, many of

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Speaker 1: them to the UK and set up Pakistani restaurants, Bangladeshi

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Speaker 1: restaurants and Indian restaurants. And this was really throughout the

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Speaker 1: fifties and sixties. So when I grew up at the

396
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: age when I was beginning to play music and travel

397
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Speaker 1: outside my hometown, then Indian food became. It became what

398
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: you you you you aspired to as a good night

399
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: out if you were whether it was on your way

400
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: back from some some gigs somewhere in the north of

401
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: England and there was some late night Indian restaurant open.

402
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 1: I mean that that you made a bee line for it,

403
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 1: because we all had a taste for spicy food Chinese.

404
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: I suppose it was the first thing that we knew

405
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 1: about in terms of more exotic cuisine, but Indian that

406
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: nailed it for most of us. So I guess it

407
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: would be very hard to find many British music then

408
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: and now who A didn't like Indian food and b

409
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: hadn't been to art school, So that those two things

410
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: somehow seemed to define what is about British musicians that

411
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: maybe marks us out from the rest of Europe and

412
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: most of the USA. You know, we're all nuts about

413
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: a good king prawne Vinderloo and we all we all

414
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: went to art college to study the creative side of

415
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: of life that then translated into music. So if someone

416
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: is going to an Indian restaurant, tell them hot at order,

417
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: Well that that happens to me from time to time

418
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: that somebody says, well I'm not sure what I should

419
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: what I should eat, So it's just you just asked

420
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: them a few simple questions. Well do you like do

421
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: you like food that has a wet source or do

422
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: you like something that is dry and not not not

423
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 1: not wet. Do you like something that is kind of

424
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 1: spicy like that a lot of spicy flavor is not

425
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: necessarily hot, but just the spices. Or do you like

426
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: something that is relatively bland? And do you like something

427
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: that is spicy as in hot or do you want

428
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: something that's really mild? And and you eat meat, do

429
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 1: you eat chicken, Do you eat fish, do you eat shellfish,

430
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: do you eat beef? To eat lamb? Or do you

431
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: are you vegetarian? And with a benefit of that, you

432
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: can perhaps direct somebody to something that hopefully is going

433
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: to be along the lines that that that might satisfy them.

434
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: And for people who are perhaps not really sure that

435
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: I would recommend something, I mean, assuming you eat chicken,

436
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: I would say, go for a chicken corner. It's a mild, creamy,

437
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: yogurt based sauce with the chicken boned pieces of chickens.

438
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: There's no bone in there. You know that that might satisfy.

439
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: But if you want something that's you know, if you

440
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: want to just jump in at the deep end and

441
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: you go for the King Prawn Vindaloo, and if you're

442
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: completely nuts, go for the King Prawn foul which is

443
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: the legendary hottest of curries. And these days, of course

444
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: they're made with the benefit of chili peppers that have

445
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: been refined and hybridized in Arizona and New Mexico. So

446
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: these days it could be but jell Okia or the

447
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: or the or the the or the or the Reaper

448
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: that you know, the hottest chili peppers on planet Earth.

449
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: I know because I've grown those and you know, one

450
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: goes an awfully long way in terms of spicing up

451
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: your your supper. Okay, you mentioned Indy, you mentioned Britain.

452
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: I have to ask what is your take unclapped in

453
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: It is the anti vax the answer? And what is

454
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:05,439
Speaker 1: your stance on Brexit? Well, I'm afraid to say that

455
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: people like Van Morrison and Eric Clapton just a name two,

456
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: in the attitude towards COVID, its effects and the vaccine. Um, well,

457
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: I am ashamed of what they what they say, it really, really,

458
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: frankly makes me very angry because it's a you would

459
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: think you would think that they would be bright enough

460
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: to know better. And there are people who genuinely have

461
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: a reason not to have the vaccine. But if you're

462
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: a responsible citizen of planet Earth, and I think you

463
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: should take the chance and have your double vaccine or

464
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: your triple vaccine. And I mean I've actually had five

465
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: holes in my arm in the last twelve months, three

466
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: to do with COVID, one for pneumonia and one for

467
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: an annual flu vaccine. And I hate needles, I mean

468
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: I absolutely hate needles. Drives me nuts. And but at

469
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: the end of the day, three of those five are

470
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: about are about protecting, helping to protect people around me,

471
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: my family, my friends, or complete strangers. I think it

472
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: is a bit of a civic duty, frankly, to bite

473
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,719
Speaker 1: the bullet, be vaccinated, and much less chance that you

474
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: could be the person who inadvertently infects somebody else, who

475
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: may be vulnerable, who may end up in hospital sadly

476
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: may die even with O macron, which is not the

477
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: pussycat quite that we were hoping for, but it's better

478
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: than nothing, and we have to accept that. Even though

479
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: infection rates in my country have now seemingly in the

480
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: last week turned the corner and started to go down,

481
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: I mean, they're almost half of what they were two

482
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: weeks ago, but our death rates, which lag behind the hospitalizations,

483
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: which lag behind infection rates, you know, are still going up,

484
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: and at the at a rate quite as high as

485
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: the worst of two thousand and twenty one, but still worrying.

486
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: And in your country, you know, you're you are as

487
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: of yesterday, pretty close to the highest daily infection rate

488
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: that's been recorded, and O macron is still going up

489
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: and death rates are still going up. It's um you

490
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: know we're not out of this yet. And I'm afraid

491
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton and others send an irresponsible message in my

492
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: view to two people. They just simply fall into that

493
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: that kind of fake news and and conspiracy theory stuff

494
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: that that does seem to appeal to so many people,

495
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: but it's it isn't really without foundation. And when I've read,

496
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: because I go online and I look at what some

497
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: of these people say, and I looked to see where

498
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: they got it from, and it is it's neither science,

499
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: common sense or common decency in my view to take

500
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: an anti vax state a status in your in the

501
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: way that you influence others. But that's just me. I'm

502
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: a low abiding citizen. I'm a nice guy, and I

503
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: definitely don't want to catch COVID about possibly avoid it

504
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: because I'm in that vulnerable category with underlying health conditions.

505
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm taking a little bit of extra

506
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: care and I'd like to think other people would do

507
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: the same thing on my you know, for for my sake.

508
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 1: And what about Brexit. Brexit is well, I remember when

509
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: I I woke up to Brexit. I was in Poland

510
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: to do a concert and I woke up in the morning,

511
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: around six seven in the morning and to hear the

512
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: the early results of the Brexit Pole and was pretty

513
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: horrified to find out that it was in favor of Brexit.

514
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think that the EU needed a

515
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: sharp shock to wake it up to the fact that

516
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: as an institution, the EU was I mean, it was

517
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: a post war thing, you know, it was about bringing

518
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: the European countries together so they wouldn't murder each other

519
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: in battle. And then it developed into an economic union,

520
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: which is fair enough. And then it became the EU,

521
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: which was okay, but then it became increasingly caught up

522
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: with trying to homogenize the whole, the whole fabric of

523
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: Europe into accepting the same set of laws, same set

524
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: of taxation standards, and a whole lot of things that

525
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: I felt were removing the national culture and pride and

526
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: individual nation's sense of who they were, including in the UK.

527
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: So I think the EU needed a bit of a

528
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: sharp shop to wake it up. But at the end

529
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: of the day, I was I was disappointed that we

530
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: had not been able to find and accommodate some kind

531
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: of a rational way to remain broadly within Europe while

532
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: having more of our own laws, in our immigration policies,

533
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: in our own hands, rather than as part of a

534
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: European directive. Unfortunately, it resulted in us leaving the EU,

535
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: and I'm rather sad about that. I've been paying my

536
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: my German reunification tax since whatever it was nineteen eighty nine, when,

537
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reunification

538
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: of Germany as a as a performer going there to work,

539
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: part of the withholding taxes that we would pay were

540
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: that small part that went towards the cost of reunifying Germany,

541
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: which is basically building roads and infrastructure and housing and

542
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: the whole shooting match of what had been the Eastern

543
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: Germany ground into the into the dirt by the communist

544
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: regime as an offshoot of of the USSR. But you know,

545
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I am sorry that we've left the EU.

546
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: I'm a European, I'm I'm a I'm a Britain first,

547
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: but I feel very strongly a European. It's where I've

548
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: spent much of my life and I hope, in what

549
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: remains of it I get to spend some more time

550
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: in Europe. So yeah, I'm sorry to have left but

551
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: I didn't want to. In a way, I'm kind of

552
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: glad we didn't stay on the terms that we were on.

553
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: I just felt there was prospects to tough it out

554
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: a little more and get more of what we wanted

555
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: while still remaining part of Europe. Not a problem that

556
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: you guys have. It's you, But you do have the

557
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: problem of NATO, and you do have the problem of

558
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: an angry Mr Putin who's hell bent on trying to rebuild,

559
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: you know, from the ashes of the USSR, trying to

560
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: rebuild a broader empire than the one that he lords

561
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: over at the moment. I have a photograph, we can

562
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: find this online, a photograph of of when I went

563
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: to play in St. Petersburg, I think in or ninety

564
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: one and met the mayor of St. Petersburg at the

565
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: time and his assistant kind of rather odd, weird looking

566
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: little man who was looking daggers at me. In this photograph.

567
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: It turned out to be the KGB Major Putin. Although

568
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: he was the chief economic advisor to the Mayor of St. Petersburg,

569
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: he was actually a major in the KGB at the

570
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: same time. And Putin is just the look on his

571
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: face as I'm you know, smooching with his boss is priceless.

572
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: And when I was well, it was brought to my

573
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: attention many many years later that there was a photograph

574
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: of us in the same frame. But you can see

575
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: something about putin that and look in his eyes. It's

576
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: he's a frightening guy. I actually have a huge admiration

577
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 1: for him as a international statesman and politician. But he's

578
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: a very scary man, and I can you know, like

579
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: everybody else, we know what he's trying to do. But

580
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: as someone who's supposed to be in Ukraine in um

581
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: in the middle in the one at the end of

582
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: the first week of April UM, it's one of those

583
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: slightly nerve wracking prospects that will Ukraine still be Ukraine

584
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: by the time I get there, Will I which would

585
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: be another gig in Russia? Well, I'm gonna be in

586
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: Russia for that matter, and whenever it is sometime not

587
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: too far off to do some concerts there that have

588
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: been rescheduled three times already, like most of our concerts

589
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: since early two and twenty, we're on our third or

590
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: fourth rescheduling of dates that people bought tickets for in

591
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: the middle of two thousand and nineteen and we've not

592
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: showed up for work yet. I mean's so embarrassing. Just

593
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: staying on the politics one more time. A couple of

594
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 1: days ago, the lead piece in the New York Times

595
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: our ed page was about the UK sliding into authoritarianism

596
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: Boris Johnson passing all these laws about being arrested if

597
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: you protest, etcetera. Do you think there's a possibility we

598
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: certainly have this issue in the US and needles sat

599
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: Putin is an authoritarian or is that overblown? But I

600
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: think it's a bit overblown. We are pretty much a

601
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: liberal society and media. You know, we have a couple

602
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: of right wing newspapers, but they're not anything like as

603
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: far to the writers say fox Um. And at the

604
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: same time, you know, whilst our liberal side of things

605
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: maybe a little more, a little bit more to the

606
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: left than than CNN, we're still generally speaking, I think

607
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: we're relatively tolerant country. And you know, once in a

608
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: while you've got to try and get to grips with

609
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: what is increasingly what is referred to here as wokeasm.

610
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: You know, it's a those who have adopted really an

611
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: ultra liberal position because they are partly following trends and

612
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: not wanting to appear hostile or out of touch and

613
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: so on. But you know, there's got to be some

614
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: common sense in all of it. And you know, some

615
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: of it I go along with, and some of it

616
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: i've you know, I feel a little awkward about. But

617
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: generally speaking, you know, we are pretty much a liberal country,

618
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: and the most extreme of our right wing media and

619
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: those within the Conservative Party are still puttycats compared to

620
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: the Republicans of the USA, not all of them, but

621
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: most of them. And you know, one of my great

622
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: chums was and absolutely died in the whole idealistic Republican

623
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: and and he was someone you could have a spirited

624
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: to argument or discussion with. But he was a true

625
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: Southern gentleman and loved by all Democrats and Republicans alike,

626
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: particularly during his stint not only with with Fox, but

627
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: as the as the press secretary for for President Bush,

628
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: actually two President Bushes. He was he was the scriptwriter

629
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: for Dad and then it was the press secretary for

630
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: for Junior, and and I was in his office one

631
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: day in the White House and he um, he said,

632
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: dropping names, but we were we were there just as

633
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: you know, unexceptional guests to watch a press conference, and

634
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: went back to Tony Snow's office. Tony Snow's the name

635
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: of the man. And and we got back to his

636
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: office after the press briefing and the phone rang, and

637
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: it was Barbara Starr from CNN, and I could read

638
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: his body language and the tone of his voice. He

639
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: was being so polite and nice to her. And she

640
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: was trying to get the scoop, trying to pin him

641
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: down on all that you know rubbish, you just said,

642
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: you know, covering up for Bush. But you know, what's

643
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: the real story here, what's the real And and he

644
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: was so nice and poline. He said, Barbara, you know,

645
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 1: if I if I could give you anything more, you'd

646
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: be the first person I would call. It's it's really

647
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: nice to hear from you. And but you've got the

648
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: you've got the impression he was somebody that was it

649
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 1: was really appreciated as a as a person of honor

650
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: and discretion and a gentlemanly way of doing things. And

651
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: he had a very easy relationship with the media left

652
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: and right alike. And I remember before Tony died finally

653
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: tragically after repeated illness, with with colon cancer. He I

654
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: did say to him, Toney, would you ever, you know,

655
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 1: would you consider a political career, you know, shift away

656
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: from being a backroom boy to actually, you know, running

657
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: for serious office. Um? And he was sort of bashful

658
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: about it. No, No, my wife wouldn't really want me

659
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: to do that, and blah blah blah blah blah. But

660
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: I've always thought that Tony, Tony would have been the

661
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: Republican president for the USA that the USA really needed. Um.

662
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: Sadly he was never around to do that. That his

663
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: last gig wasn't for Fox. His last gig he was appointed.

664
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: He took on the job with CNN to be their

665
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: Republican reporting the upcoming election where Obama won. And that

666
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: was Tony's that the last appointment he had at that point.

667
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: I guess he knew he wasn't going to make it.

668
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: And sadly he was never able to take on that

669
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: appointment because he became very seriously and died before before

670
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: that happened. But it was an interesting, an interesting twist

671
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: that you know, Tony was so appreciated and revered that

672
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: he would be taken on by CNN to be the

673
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: the voice of the Republican Party within CNN whenever they

674
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: were talking out and analyzing the the events leading up

675
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: to the election. So I, you know, I missed Tony.

676
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: He was a good guy and he would have been

677
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: a good precedent. And he was a flute player. And

678
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: that's how I got to know because his his whole

679
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: passion was playing the flute. He and I argued. I

680
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: said that he was the model for the the anchorman

681
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: flute playing sequence, the jazz flute bit, and he claimed

682
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: that no, he couldn't. Possibly it must be me. In reality,

683
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: it was probably both of us. But I would never

684
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: classify myself as a jazz flutist and an anchor man.

685
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a media person, he was a

686
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: you know, he was a and so was Tony. So

687
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: I always had my bet that it was modeled on Tony,

688
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: But who knows. We'd have to ask the writers and

689
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: the and the the actor. You know, where did he

690
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: get that idea for him? Okay, let's go back and

691
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: set the scene in the sixties in US, there's certainly

692
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: always been music, but generally speaking, the early sixties were

693
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: very vapid, and then at the beginning of the sixty

694
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: four the Beatles arrived. What was going on in the UK?

695
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: You know, we hear about the blues records being imported

696
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: by soldiers. We hear the scene in Liverpool, the Beatles

697
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: play at the Cavern Club. You know, as I say,

698
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: in the US, people saw the Beatles on it solivan,

699
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: They picked up electric guitars. What was your experience of

700
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: the scene. Well, I had already picked up an electric guitar,

701
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: I think at the time, possibly when the Beatles came along.

702
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: That's another one of my questions. What motivated you? Yeah,

703
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: But it wasn't really that I was a Beatles fan.

704
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: I mean I remember when they first appeared with a

705
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: song called Loved Me Do, and I think what appealed

706
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: to me about it was the harmonica that kind of

707
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: set me off in the track of playing harmonica. But

708
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 1: you know, they were okay, but they were a pop

709
00:42:55,400 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: group and I had already at that point discovered as

710
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: and blues, and I was not really enamored too much

711
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: of of the early Beatles. Although they were catchy songs,

712
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: you could see the expertise and the energy and the

713
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: the ghost youthful the thing that they put across that

714
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: that allowed a generation of people to to feel passionate

715
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: about being young and expressing themselves. But for me, that that,

716
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, in the UK at that time, you know,

717
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: was a curious mixture of different sorts of music, and

718
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: the pop music of the day was still for the

719
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: most part it had been emulating Elvis Presley and other

720
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: derivative imitations of other US acts, So it hadn't really

721
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 1: we hadn't really home grown very much. That was anything

722
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: to feel good about until until the Beatles came along,

723
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: and and and and In America you had to endure

724
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: Herman's Hermits and the Dave Clark five um as, the

725
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: imports from the UK, which people loved sure enough. But

726
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: when the Beatles arrived in town, it was a whole,

727
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: a whole new ball game. And then it seemed a

728
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: quite quick movement towards something where the Beatles we saw

729
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: them mature and developers musicians. And then the big landmark

730
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: thing that made a difference to me and I'm sure

731
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: many of my peers in the UK, was the advent

732
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: of what became not progressive rock but progressive pop. It

733
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: was Sergeant Pepper in the summer of sixty seven, and

734
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: within a couple of months of that there was the

735
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd was Piper at the Gates of Dawn, and

736
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: these two albums they were like a signpost. It was.

737
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: It was like walking down a walking down a path

738
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: in the middle of the woods and suddenly coming across

739
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: a fork in the road and a signpost they're saying,

740
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: you know this way, And it was a huge motivator,

741
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: you know, to hear what you could do with pop

742
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: music on the one hand and what you could do

743
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 1: with psychedelic rock on the other. So it was quite

744
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: important to me, not as the actual musical style or

745
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: the or the elements of the of the music, or

746
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: the personalities of people playing. It was just that motivation

747
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: that you could actually take it into your own hands

748
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: and write and record and put music out. There wasn't

749
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: mainstream pop music. Of course, the Beatles had George Martin,

750
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: without whom I'm sure they couldn't have made that record,

751
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: and Pink Floyd had Said Barrett, without whom the lyrics

752
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: and the essence of those songs wouldn't really mentor busting amount,

753
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: but they were. They were real signposts and landmarks in

754
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: my early days as a teenager. So yeah, it was

755
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: definitely a step forward from the the imitative rock and

756
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 1: roll of Britain's music scene in the from the late

757
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: fifties through to the mid sixties, which was frankly a

758
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 1: little embarrassing. You were just copying people singing with American

759
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: accents and wearing the clothes and pretending to be um,

760
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, the American artists that they revered and whose

761
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: careers they aspired to. Okay, so you're an art school.

762
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: Is that a holding place? Where do you envision being

763
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: an artist or a designer? And how do you pick

764
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: up the guitar and how does that become your direction

765
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: in life? Well, I had a guitar at the age

766
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: of I think eleven. I persuaded my first of all

767
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: I had had I think when I was eight or

768
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: nine years old, I got an Elvis Presley ukulele. That

769
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: was my birthday present or Christmas present. Boats not online,

770
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: but you know, a mail order thing. And and I

771
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: remember the black and white add for this ukulele, and

772
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: it was a picture of Elvis playing what looked like

773
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: a full sized guitar, and it was. It cost twenty

774
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: two and sixpence, which you know, in those days was

775
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: probably a couple of dollars, and naively, I thought, wow,

776
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, that's the real deal. And what what arrived

777
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: in the post was this thing that was, you know,

778
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: fifteen inches long and fragile piece of plastic with nylon strings.

779
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: It wouldn't stay in tune, and I mean it was

780
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: really quite horrible, but you could actually play a few

781
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: chords and and and some simple tunes. And I went

782
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: on from there to get a beating up old Spanish

783
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: guitar to which I attached steel strings, which of course

784
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: meant that the action lifted up off the fret board

785
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: to the point where you had bleeding fingers and the

786
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: attempt to play C major and and it was. It

787
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: was pretty out of tune, but I managed to begin with,

788
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: along with a couple of school chumps, to make some

789
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: vaguely musical noises in the style of what was called skiffle.

790
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: Skiffle in the UK and the in the fifties was

791
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: kind of homegrown music form. It was a precursor to punk.

792
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: You know, you didn't have to be able to play

793
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: a musical instrument, you just kind of did it. And

794
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: you don't have drum kits. You had a washboard, you know,

795
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: the sort of corrugated metal thing that used for scrubbing

796
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: clothes on. And a t chest bass which was literally

797
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: a wooden t chest that he was packed in. And

798
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: you had a pole, you know, like a like a

799
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: broom pole, and a piece of string that was stretched

800
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: between the two and you have bum bum boom by

801
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: pulling the pole tighter or loosening it off. And so

802
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: that was skiffle, and it was homemade, very simple music

803
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: that was essentially derived from bluegrass and blue grass in

804
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: his turn, of course, derived from folk music from the UK,

805
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: from Scotland, Ireland, England, and from from Northwest Europe. So

806
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: it had turned around and come back to the UK

807
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: is as a music form that we could all pick

808
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: up on. You know. There was some energetic and fun

809
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: songs from the few artists who were able to record

810
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: and perform, but blue bluegrass in the form of skiffle

811
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 1: was something that I think probably was the starting point

812
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: for many of the musicians of my my era. I mean,

813
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: I've not really talked to any of them, so I

814
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: don't know most of them, but I would be surprised

815
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 1: if they hadn't also followed the same the same tracks

816
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: as I did. As a teenager, you know, through through

817
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 1: those early music forms, and I think what we didn't

818
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: like was the cheesy, show busy, imitative British pop music,

819
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: which was based on the American stuff that you know,

820
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: we we all preferred the real dealing. We're going to

821
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 1: do American music, then let's let's let's do Muddy Water,

822
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: Let's do Harling Wolf, Let's do even Chuck Berry or

823
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: or Bo Diddley, you know, which was obviously that the

824
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: pop side of the blues. But those of us who

825
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: grew up with us and jazz as teenagers, you know,

826
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 1: I think we we set our sights on something a

827
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: little more esoteric until it dawned on us that we

828
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: were middle class white boys. We weren't black. We didn't

829
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: have the experience, the background, the culture. We were just

830
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: still copying something that really wasn't ours. Which is why I,

831
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,240
Speaker 1: after a few months of being in a blues band,

832
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, I was anxious to try and write my

833
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: own songs and step away from the accusation potentially of

834
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: just ripping off black American folk music, which I revered

835
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: and to this day still do. I would hate to

836
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: be thought of as just a copyist. So you make

837
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: this transition, how do you end up going down south

838
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: to London and becoming professional? What is your goal? And

839
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: you were really starving, so what was that like and

840
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: how did you keep yourself on track with the dreams

841
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: supposed to giving up? When I grew up, I mean

842
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: I was born in Scotland, but I moved to the

843
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,280
Speaker 1: age of twelve, I think, to the north of England,

844
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: to a town called Blackpool, a seaside town I've often

845
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: likened to either the worst of New Jersey. You know,

846
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's you know, it's a it's

847
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: a town where people go to have a good time,

848
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: but it's pretty desolate in winter. And um, the boardwalk

849
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: in in a in Atlantic city or in New Jersey,

850
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: it's it's reminiscent of the promenade in Blackpool. People strut

851
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: up and down and ever. In the summer it's nice,

852
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, eating ice cream and eating burghers or doing

853
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: what you do, same sort of thing. But you couldn't

854
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: really think about being a full time musician in Blackpool

855
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: because the only opportunities really were to be essentially a

856
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: cover band, or or to be something really very show

857
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: busy and do you know some sort of very conspicuously

858
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: pop music, but everybody knew that if you wanted to

859
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: if you wanting to make it, you know, sure you

860
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: could go to Manchester or the or Liverpool and playing

861
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: some clubs that were perhaps more the the the up

862
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: and coming places. But long term, everybody the gout feeling

863
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: was you've gotta go. You gotta go to London. That's

864
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: where you make it. That's where the music industry has

865
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: really centered, the record companies, the biggest clubs and venues

866
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: and so on. So around sixty seven I decided that,

867
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: you know, I should bite the bullet and leave home

868
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:39,240
Speaker 1: and try for the London opportunity should it, should it exist,

869
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: But you know I had a plan B and a

870
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: plan to see you know, it wasn't like I was,

871
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, burning my boats and so it was. It

872
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: was a dangerous move, but it worked out in the

873
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: sense of having a couple of months of abject poverty

874
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: and literally going hungry and going very very cold, because

875
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: sixty seven and in the UK was one of the

876
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: coldest winters on record. But you know, it picked up

877
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: again January February. Got to get at the Marquee Club

878
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 1: and things moved on. From there and my days of

879
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: eating recycled off cuts of meat and bits of past

880
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: their cell by date vegetables and cooking them up. And

881
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: then you didn't want to waste anything, so you would

882
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: cook it up and then and then you'd add something

883
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: else to it next day, and something else. That the

884
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 1: part just stayed on the stove and you just kept

885
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: sort of adding to it, and so everything stewed in

886
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: its own juices. But it kept me, kept me going

887
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks of the bad period of time.

888
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: And then you know, we've got a few gigs. I

889
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: had enough money to go and buy you know, take

890
00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: away Chinese or something that was unbelievably I mean, absolutely

891
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: lutally just the most amazing experience was to go in

892
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:08,399
Speaker 1: a Chinese takeaway and order some egg fried rice and

893
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: and some sweet and style pork and you know, some

894
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,720
Speaker 1: noodles and whatever, and take it back to your lonely

895
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: little bedsit room, and and it would still be warm enough,

896
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: and and you know, you put your hands on it

897
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: to try and warm your hands up first of all

898
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: before you ate it. It was that that was just

899
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: the most amazing, wonderful experience of being independent, being on

900
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: your own, away from your parents, and I spent most

901
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 1: of my time alone because I didn't really have any friends,

902
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: know anybody down there, apart from the guys in the band.

903
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: But there they lived in actually in nearby town, so

904
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: we didn't see each other unless we had a gig

905
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: to go to. So I spent a lot of time alone.

906
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: It was quite useful because I learned to play a

907
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: little bit of flute and I started to write some music,

908
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: and I read several of Jack carro Act's works, which

909
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:04,479
Speaker 1: were an interesting, um parallel to my own rather desolate life.

910
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: I remember reading Desolate Angels as a time when I

911
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: was particularly cold and miserable and alone, and in a

912
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: way it was somebody sharing that experience of a stark,

913
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: rather bleak situation that that gave me a little bit

914
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: feeling that I wasn't alone in the world. Um so

915
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: I yes, I I you know, it all worked out

916
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: and I can't complain. I only went hungry for two weeks,

917
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, So ultimately band puts out the album

918
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: this was Was it always you were band? Or was

919
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: it more of equal voice, equal membership? Well, I guess

920
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: right at the beginning, Um, you might have thought it

921
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: was for guys who had an equal stake in things,

922
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 1: and you know, we're equal voices. But in reality, Mick

923
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: Abraham's the guitar player and I were you know, more

924
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: dynamic musical forces. And we needed Mick because he was

925
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: a you know, virtue as a guitar player and a

926
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: and a shouter, a blue shouter. You know, he'd like

927
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: to give it a lot of energy, and you know,

928
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: he had a lot going for him as a blues

929
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 1: and rock performer, and he was vital to the band

930
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: um But I was the odd bawl who brought something

931
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,720
Speaker 1: else to the party that was not mainstream in terms

932
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 1: of blues or an approach, and he and I always

933
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: had an uneasy relationship. I think he was uncomfortable with

934
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: me because of my musical aspirations didn't stop with you know,

935
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: imitative blues, and the other guys tended after a while

936
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: to come more towards me than Mike. It was very

937
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: set in his ways and a bit of a mercurial

938
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: character from time to time. But when we really fell

939
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: out with Mick towards the end of of we were

940
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: already getting a little bit established in the UK, and

941
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: it was at a time when it was make or break,

942
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: you know, would either build upon that early small success

943
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: and find a new guitar player or you know, go

944
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 1: back home to mummy, as were the options. Okay, so

945
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: how did it end with Mick? And is fat Man

946
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: on stand up about Mick? Well, it's not really about Mick.

947
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: It was just the only time we have a traveled

948
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: abroad because Mick wouldn't get on an airplane, but we

949
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: could get a ferry to Denmark and we went to

950
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: play in two clubs on the ferry from the east

951
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: coast of England. And on the way back to the

952
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: ferry to get the ferry home, we went past we

953
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: had a little bit of time in how we went

954
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: past a porn shop m in es Buerg, and I know,

955
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 1: just in the porn shop there was a mandolin hanging

956
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: there and I went in and you know, with my

957
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: whatever I learned for doing the club dates, I bought

958
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: a mandolin. Had no idea how to play or tune

959
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: up or anything. And on the way back, because it's

960
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: quite a long ferry journey, so we were it was

961
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: an overnight thing and Mick and I were sharing a

962
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: cabin and I really annoyed him by tuning up and

963
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 1: trying to play this mandolin, and he was just getting

964
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: really really testy about the fact I was keeping him awake.

965
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 1: And but you know, a little bit of a tune

966
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: coming on other what this is good? I like this.

967
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: And and we used to tease Mick, who was pink cherubic,

968
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: sort of slightly chubby. He wasn't fat, you know, he

969
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: wasn't a beast. He was just a little just a

970
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,919
Speaker 1: little chubby in a healthy chubby kind of a way,

971
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: whereas the rest of us were sort of rake thin,

972
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: basically because his mom cooked for him. And when we

973
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: were start think, but I used to tease me about being,

974
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, not fat, but you know, being a little chubby.

975
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: And so I wrote this song I Don't want to

976
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: be a fat man. And it wasn't really about him.

977
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: It was just, yeah, just a little notion really, And

978
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: but he was convinced I was. It was a sort

979
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 1: of bitter attack on his corporeal presence, and and and

980
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: he wasn't too happy about it. But it wasn't really

981
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: about me. I mean, I never write songs that are

982
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: about real people because I would never betray a relationship

983
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: by by making it so, you know, so intrusive into

984
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: somebody's life. But there is an amalgam of personalities and

985
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: people that's an as an observer. Since I'm that kind

986
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: of a writer, I might draw together a few different

987
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: people and that becomes a character in a song. But

988
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: it's never about a particular individual. I was certainly never

989
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: name name hims or you know, take an individual as

990
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: a model for a song. I would just hate to

991
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: embarrass somebody or betray something that is private between us

992
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: as a relationship, whether it's a couple of guys or

993
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: men and a woman, or you know, it's for me,

994
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: it's it's all, you know, pretty private stuff. So have

995
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: you ever listened to a blood Wind Pig record? And

996
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: I know he's had his health issues, but what's your

997
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: relationship of any with Mick today? Well, Mick went on

998
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: to do blood Wind Pig and got a lot of

999
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: help from us and our managers and record company, and

1000
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: Bloodwind Pig were on tour with Gester Hotel a couple

1001
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: of points along the way and and after Blood Wind Pig,

1002
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: I mean just sort of mixed band. But they threw

1003
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: him out of his own band in the end because

1004
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: I think they just he was a tricky chap, you know,

1005
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: to to work with. I mean, very nice man, you know,

1006
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: he's had absolutely bighearted, nice guy, but just so insecure

1007
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: and bundle of nerves and twitchy and it always um

1008
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of awkward to be around, so

1009
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: desperate to be liked. It was, it was overbearing. But

1010
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: after Blood Wind Pig, Mick went on, you know, through

1011
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: a various musical and unmusical activities, and when he started

1012
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: working again, you know, I played with him a few

1013
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: times and we did some songs for one of his

1014
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: solo albums and so on, and once in a while

1015
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: we've spoken. Mike unfortunately these days having stuff with very

1016
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: serious little health, it's not really you know, he's not

1017
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: really able to have conversations on the phone or whatever.

1018
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I think changed emails a few times.

1019
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: But but Mick's you know, you know, he's not well.

1020
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: And I always been a little sad that he's not

1021
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: able to do anything anymore at all musically. But my

1022
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: son was actively engaged in doing a sort of tribute

1023
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: charity concert in London for make and which I was

1024
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: I couldn't I couldn't go to I wasn't. I was

1025
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: away somewhere else, but it was nice to think that

1026
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: my son James was one of the organizers of a

1027
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: fundraiser for Mick to recognize his his role in those

1028
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: years of being part of the British music scene. And

1029
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: Mick has a lot of parles, a lot of friends

1030
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,000
Speaker 1: who were stand by him, and you know he was

1031
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: in his day, he was one of those guitar players.

1032
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: Maybe not so obviously on the level of the Eric

1033
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: Clapton or Peter Green or Jimmy Page or any of

1034
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: those guys, but he was, you know, he was a

1035
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 1: revered blues and rock guitarist and until his little health

1036
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 1: took over, you know, he was still doing pretty well. Okay,

1037
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: let's go to stand Up. This is obviously a different

1038
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: era and Needles say, it's not streaming, it's vinyl. The

1039
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 1: white album would come out, which was actually a response

1040
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 1: to overdone packages. But in sixty nine you put out

1041
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: stand Up and it literally stands up when you open

1042
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: the cover. Whose idea was that, well, I have to that.

1043
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: Then all the credit goes to Terry Ellis, our manager,

1044
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: because the the first album cover this was that was

1045
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: that was my idea and Terry, bless him, went along

1046
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: with it. I mean, Warner Brothers and Ireland I think

1047
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: hated it because he can't possibly do this is a

1048
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: picture of a bunch of old guys with a lot

1049
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 1: of dogs around them, and then the name of the

1050
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: band isn't even on the front cover. You know, you

1051
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: can't do that. But but Terry kind of, you know,

1052
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: he stood by us, and that was what I wanted

1053
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: it to be like, and so he went along with it,

1054
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 1: and I think it got people's attention because who who

1055
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: would bring out an album cover and the name of

1056
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: the band isn't even on the on the front of

1057
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: the cover. It was on the back. But nonetheless it

1058
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: was it was my my, my one. And then stand up.

1059
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: Terry had come up with a with an artist in

1060
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,959
Speaker 1: the USA who did specialized in in wood cuts, and

1061
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know what Terry saw this, but it was,

1062
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, very graphic. And as having been to our school,

1063
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 1: I did some would cut some things at school, so

1064
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: I was quite quite um, you know, quite happy to

1065
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: go along with that. And and Terry came up with

1066
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: the idea of a gate fall cover that you would

1067
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: open up and there would be this sort of pop

1068
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: up thing of the band, and you know what, was it? Okay, fine,

1069
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: well if you can make that work, let's let's let's

1070
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: do it. And that indeed was the was the was

1071
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: the album cover, which you know was quite in its way,

1072
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: quite iconic, and the fact that the album then did

1073
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: go on to do very well in the UK. In fact,

1074
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: we were on our second US tour. Um. I remember

1075
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: being in Loose Midtown in Manhattan in the breakfast room,

1076
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:18,360
Speaker 1: having breakfast with the guys, and in walked Joe Cocker

1077
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: and came over to our tables. That our congratulations. So

1078
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: why what's happened? He said? Your album just went to

1079
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: number one in the UK charts? So can I can

1080
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: I have kind of you're gonna eat all of that bacon?

1081
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: Can I have a bit? So the the you know,

1082
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: the the good news was we were away from the

1083
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: UK and could do nothing about it, but we had

1084
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 1: a number one album in England and that was when

1085
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: Terry said, Wow, you know we've got to We've got

1086
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: to capitalize on this. We need something to keep the sea,

1087
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: put it to keep the pot boiling while we were

1088
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: out of the UK on a long tour. So can

1089
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: you can you write a hit single that we can

1090
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: release in the UK while we're away, and to humor him,

1091
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 1: I say, yeah, sure, no problem, just give me a

1092
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: couple of hours. And by then I think we we've

1093
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: gone to Boston, and so we checked into a holiday

1094
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: in the hotel alongside a band called Pentangle who were

1095
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: also checking it at the same time, and and I said, Okay, Terry,

1096
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: give me a couple of hours. I'll meet you in

1097
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 1: the lobby and I'll write a hit single while I'm upstairs.

1098
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 1: I was just I was just fooling around, you know,

1099
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: I was just just just winding him up. But I

1100
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: went back down to the lobby and he said, have

1101
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: you written it? If you got it? And I said, well,

1102
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: sort of, maybe, I don't know. He said, right, well,

1103
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: i'll book you into a studio in New York next

1104
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: week and we'll go and record it. So I had

1105
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: to come up with, you know, something slightly more refined

1106
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,320
Speaker 1: from that basic idea, and we went in and recorded

1107
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: the backing track to Living in the Past and in

1108
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: a studio in m I think it was actually in

1109
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: New Jersey, which across the river, and and then we

1110
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: went then to the West Coast. I remember then I

1111
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: did the flute and vocal over dubs in the studio

1112
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: and in uh I think it was in San Francisco,

1113
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: and we did the mix and sent it back to

1114
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 1: the UK and it was it was released and amazingly

1115
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: got to number three in the UK Singles charts. So

1116
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: in fact I had written its single, but it was

1117
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: one of those silly things. I was just bluffing, just

1118
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: fooling around. But the fact that it was in five

1119
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,479
Speaker 1: four time signature it really wasn't a mainstream pop song

1120
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: was quite gratifying because until that point there's only ever

1121
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 1: been one other top ten hit in five four times signature,

1122
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: which was was Dave brew Becks Take five. And so

1123
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: it was kind of a nice, nice feeling that you'd

1124
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: you brought something relatively new to the world of you know,

1125
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: the pop music charts and music TV because it was

1126
01:07:56,960 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: on top of the pop sore famous um uh weekly

1127
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: television show that did the latest pop music stuff. So

1128
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: that's how that worked out, and the stand up did

1129
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: did pretty well and and in its own right, it

1130
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: paved the way for what came next. Okay, but staying

1131
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: with the second album for a minute, my favorite song

1132
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: you have such an incredible memory. I look into the

1133
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: Sun come about. I'd rather think it was something I'm

1134
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 1: not sure where it was on a guitar or where

1135
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: the fiddling around with the Hammond organ. It was in

1136
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 1: the studio that I've got this really simple little line

1137
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: and it was just meant to be a song about optimism,

1138
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:43,200
Speaker 1: um optimism and perhaps in the face of some adversity.

1139
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: It was a very simple, you know, cheerful, quietly upbeat

1140
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: song that didn't strike me as it was, you know,

1141
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,600
Speaker 1: so important to the album as a whole, compared to

1142
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: songs like a New Day Yesterday for example, which I

1143
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 1: knew it was a power, a full song, and the

1144
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: worlds like for a Thousand Mothers and things that were

1145
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: a bit more animated, and we're look into the sums

1146
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 1: that you know, gentle placid piece. There are two or

1147
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:17,879
Speaker 1: three like that on it that were gentle um reasons

1148
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 1: for waiting I think was another one that was a

1149
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: similar sort of a feel. So yeah, it was just

1150
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 1: just trying to bring something in the way of dynamic

1151
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: range into the broad context of rock music, so it

1152
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: didn't all have to be crash, bang wallop with drums

1153
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: and bass pounding away on everything you could, you could,

1154
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 1: you could do things that are a little bit more

1155
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: varied and musically a little den less dense, and you know,

1156
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: had different dynamics. And perhaps in the case of a

1157
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: song like that, it was giving me the opportunity to

1158
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: not have to pretend to be a rock singer, which

1159
01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: I've never felt terribly able to do. Um, So I

1160
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,759
Speaker 1: could just sing it in a relatively quiet, easy voice,

1161
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 1: and it was nice to do something relaxed. Okay, so

1162
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: the next album, let's talk about it from an outside perspective.

1163
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 1: Many critics felt that the first album was best, needless

1164
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: to say, that was a sound, a different sound. Second

1165
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:34,679
Speaker 1: album great reviews. Now for people who are younger today,

1166
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 1: they will need not even understand the power of the

1167
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: rock press. But that meant something back then. Third album

1168
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: commercial breakthrough. But from the perspective of those paying attention,

1169
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: it seemed a little bit more obvious, less cerebral, less internal,

1170
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: and more on the surface. And of course you had

1171
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: to cry you a song, which was a legendary riff song.

1172
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 1: So just to what degree was this premeditated or those

1173
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 1: on the outside are making this all up and you

1174
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: just cut a record? Well, it was very much a

1175
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: reflection of being on tour in America in sixty nine

1176
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 1: when we'd you know, we we we were just just

1177
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 1: making our presence felt. You know. We played in few

1178
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: clubs and we've been an opening act on a few

1179
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: theater shows. Um. But with the benefit album, it was written,

1180
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 1: most of it was written when I got back to

1181
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 1: the UK, but it did reflect on that what was

1182
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:38,759
Speaker 1: a sometimes a rather dark experience of being in the USA.

1183
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 1: Suddenly we were either headlining and modest venues on our own,

1184
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: but we were traveling a lot and spending a lot

1185
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 1: of time away from home, and and I I think

1186
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: it's it's much of it is. It's rather darker in

1187
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: musical terms, not in a negative way, but it just

1188
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 1: it just reflects the perhaps some of the ice elations,

1189
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:05,679
Speaker 1: some of the cultural confusion that comes out of visiting

1190
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: another country and then finding that after the first initial

1191
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,560
Speaker 1: getting to know it, suddenly you begin to realize that

1192
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 1: we don't really necessarily fit in and just feel a

1193
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 1: little I felt out of place increasingly in in in

1194
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: in American culture. Glenn are bass player. You know, he

1195
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: loved America. He love he just loved everything about it.

1196
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: He was a party guy. You know, he just had

1197
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: made lots of friends and went out at night and

1198
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: you know he had a great time. But Martin Barr

1199
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: and Clive and myself, you know, we were kind of loaners.

1200
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: You know, we just go back to the hotel room,

1201
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 1: read a book, watchum. Dick Cavert was here around there.

1202
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: But it was that it was that sort of era,

1203
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: you know, where you just you picked up on American culture,

1204
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: but you you did it in a slightly more vicarious way.

1205
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 1: You know, you saw it from as an observer and

1206
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: picked up things from television and media and the newspapers

1207
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: and Smiley's a New York delicate testament that did the biggest,

1208
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 1: the biggest Um, chicken liver sandwich is known to mankind

1209
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: and child strawberry malted milkshakes. A guy with Martin Barren,

1210
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: who are starving Hungary, we managed to scrap between us

1211
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,679
Speaker 1: a few dollars together, and we we bought. We bought

1212
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: these enormous wedges of chicken liver sandwich and salad dressing

1213
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: and lettuce and tomato and all the trimmings, and and

1214
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: then these huge pots of strawberry malted milkshake. Went back

1215
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: to our horrible hotel and ate ourselves into a stupor

1216
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 1: having gorged on entirely unhealthy food. But those are the

1217
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 1: sort of the amusing moments and what was otherwise quite

1218
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: often a other a bit depressing in a way for

1219
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,599
Speaker 1: those of us who were missing being at home. You know,

1220
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: we don't suddenly we were getting noticed and we were

1221
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 1: not famous, but you know, people knew who we were,

1222
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 1: but we made us he feel even more sort of displaced,

1223
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: and I think some of that came out in the album.

1224
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: But you know, an important part of it was I

1225
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:22,719
Speaker 1: remember being in in the USA at the time when

1226
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 1: when Buzz and Neil walked on the Moon and and

1227
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,600
Speaker 1: Michael Collins, who didn't and was in charge of the

1228
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: the command module. You know, I decided that was worthy

1229
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 1: of a song was to write about Michael Collins being

1230
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: the guy who didn't get to go to the moon

1231
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: or step onto the moon, and the awful position that

1232
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 1: he would have been in. And I'm sure it was

1233
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: well planned for, and the eventuality that Neil and Buzz

1234
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: either landing didn't made it back or crashed in the

1235
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 1: first place, and Michael Collins had to return home to

1236
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 1: Earth alone. He would have been the most vilified and

1237
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: hated person on the planet. And but that was his gig,

1238
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: that was the job, that's what he signed up for,

1239
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 1: and I always felt it was rather a touching experience. Oddly,

1240
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: my son in law played Michael Collins in a in

1241
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 1: a movie about the moon landing many years later. Not

1242
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: a fame, not not a highly successful movie, but he

1243
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: did play Michael Collins. Was a curious um. We had

1244
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 1: to do all of his research about Michael Collins and

1245
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: everything to do with that. That that that journey, but

1246
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: that that was one of the moments I do remember

1247
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: being an America and feeling really sort of enraptured with

1248
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 1: the whole the whole thing about America and Space Race.

1249
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: It was. It was a you got really caught up in.

1250
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: It was very exciting being there at that time and

1251
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: at the same at the same time turning down the

1252
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 1: opportunity to go and play at Woodstock, which was pretty

1253
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: much around the same time of the year, along with

1254
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 1: Led Zeppelin, who also decided not to take up the

1255
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 1: invitation to go to Woodstock. And what was the thinking there,

1256
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:06,679
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're thinking was, but I would

1257
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: imagine Peter Grant might have had the same view as

1258
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: I do, which was we didn't want to get tarnished

1259
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: with the brush of the dying embers of the hippie

1260
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 1: era and you know, sort of a naked drug taking

1261
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 1: massid throng of people who were you know, falling over

1262
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: themselves to um love the music of ten years after,

1263
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: who were forever stuck with that Woodstock appearance for the

1264
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 1: rest of their lives to this day. Um, it's what

1265
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: people remember ten years after four. Leo Lyons, the bass player,

1266
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: when I met him a few years ago on some

1267
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: festival that we were playing at, and and he just

1268
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 1: come off stage and I said, oh, what, what what? What?

1269
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 1: What did you play tonight? Lee? Or what's the set

1270
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 1: list taped to the side of his guitar And I

1271
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:52,680
Speaker 1: leaned over to look at it, and he said, oh,

1272
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:56,720
Speaker 1: it's just the usual set list. And I said that

1273
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 1: that wasn't the set list just for tonight. He said, no,

1274
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,560
Speaker 1: that's been taped to my guitar since nine nine we

1275
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:05,599
Speaker 1: played at Woodstock, So you have no regrets for not

1276
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: playing No, No, I think we're way too early for us.

1277
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 1: We were we were we were not yet fully formed,

1278
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:14,559
Speaker 1: and we were just you know, we needed time, We

1279
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 1: needed time to develop and become a little more mature musically,

1280
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 1: and it would have been awful if we If we'd

1281
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: gone on, we probably would have done really well. You know,

1282
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,680
Speaker 1: people were like, wow, is that band even better than

1283
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: ten years after? But it was too early for us.

1284
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: I mean I came for the who they were on,

1285
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: but they were already established. They knew what they were doing,

1286
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 1: that who were the who they were, They had a repertoire,

1287
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: they had an identity. But Jethro Tell was just an

1288
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 1: embryonic finding our way sort of a bunch of young

1289
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 1: guys who weren't sure what they were going to do. Um.

1290
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: So it would have been way too early to achieve

1291
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 1: any kind of mass exposure and any sudden success. It

1292
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: was much better just to step step back into the

1293
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: shadows and meet up with the Zepps and be their

1294
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: opening act for a few more shows. That was better

1295
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: learning process for me than confronting a bunch of naked

1296
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 1: um hippies. So you talk about being somewhat of a

1297
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,080
Speaker 1: loner being in the hotel room, reading this is an

1298
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: error when backstage in rock life was really exotic. So

1299
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 1: when it comes to drugs and groupies. That was not

1300
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 1: your experience personally. You just were who you were, and

1301
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: you took it on the road. Well. As I was

1302
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 1: a little bit terrified about drugs. I mean, it's not

1303
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 1: it's not a sort of moral position. It's just that

1304
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 1: I saw so many people, you know, clearly not doing

1305
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: themselves any favors as a result of taking drugs, and

1306
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's, um, it scared me. You know, Frank

1307
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: Laddis didn't really want to take that risk. I was.

1308
01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 1: I smoked a lot of cigarettes back in those days,

1309
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 1: so I assumed that my tendency to have an addictive

1310
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:06,800
Speaker 1: personality was such that if I ended up, you know,

1311
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:10,600
Speaker 1: smoking marijuana, I'd probably be doing it most of the

1312
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 1: hours of the day. Wouldn't be something I would just

1313
01:19:13,120 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 1: you know, do once or twice a week, it would

1314
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: be I would I was terrified it would it would

1315
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 1: take hold of me as a cigarette smoking did. And

1316
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 1: so I never did any of that, and which got

1317
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:27,360
Speaker 1: me the reputation being a party pooper, because you know,

1318
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:30,719
Speaker 1: if you didn't go to you know, let Zeppelin's rhoadies

1319
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:32,799
Speaker 1: decided to put on a party and we got invited

1320
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 1: and I didn't show up, you know, everybody thought, oh,

1321
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's he's a snob, he's you know,

1322
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 1: he's some arrogant doesn't want to join in and be

1323
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: one of the boys. But I was afraid to be

1324
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 1: one of the boys. And I I was uncomfortable with

1325
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: the you know, with the sex, drugs and rock and

1326
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: roll bit. I mean, the rock and roll bit was

1327
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: sort of okay, you know, it was it was a living,

1328
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: but the sex and the drug it's were a bit terrifying,

1329
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, because even then we knew that. But you know,

1330
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 1: there were some pretty nasty strains of gonorrhea going around,

1331
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: and girls were quite frightening to me, you know, because

1332
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: they were they were very um forward in their behavior

1333
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: into quiet withdrawn um English boys who perhaps were you know,

1334
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 1: not not used to these sort of things. You know,

1335
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 1: they're very forward and confident nature of a lot of

1336
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: American young females. They you know, they were quite frightening really.

1337
01:20:38,120 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: So I didn't really go in that direction. It wasn't

1338
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 1: something that's um yeah, you know, I'm sure I had

1339
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: a a few relationships, short term and otherwise with with

1340
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 1: with girls when I was in my twenties, but it

1341
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:53,800
Speaker 1: just wasn't the big thing for me. I was never

1342
01:20:54,840 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 1: lured into that kind of party behavior and the the

1343
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 1: one night stands and the you know, the whole rock

1344
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: and roll excess things. It seemed everybody else was doing it,

1345
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: So I suppose that was a good reason for me

1346
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 1: not to do it. I just I prefer to try

1347
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 1: and you know, be different, do my own thing. So

1348
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 1: I read a lot of books, and I watched a

1349
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: lot of late night talk shows, and I read the newspapers,

1350
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: and I tried to use the time in a constructive

1351
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 1: way rather than not be able to remember the next

1352
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: morning what I'd done the night before, which is something

1353
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: that's just befallen many bass players in just Hotel, they

1354
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: all seemed to be the party guys. The bass players,

1355
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 1: they they all seem to be the ones who wanted

1356
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 1: to go and have a good time. And I know,

1357
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,799
Speaker 1: and at least one case, his idea of a really, really,

1358
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: really good time was when he couldn't remember anything that

1359
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: happened from the end of the show until coming to

1360
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 1: sound check the next day. It was just just a

1361
01:21:56,520 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: complete blank in his mind. Um so he could he

1362
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: measured having a good time by the fact that he

1363
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: couldn't remember it, which to me seems utterly ridiculous that

1364
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,760
Speaker 1: why have a good time and then you can't remember it?

1365
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:09,639
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to save them my good times

1366
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 1: and recall them for years to come, not have them

1367
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:18,920
Speaker 1: fade into some deep abyss of of what did I

1368
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 1: do last night? And you know why have I now?

1369
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 1: You know these nasty scars or cuts on my face

1370
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 1: or my heir or my arms because I got in

1371
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 1: the fight off, you fell down a fire escape, or

1372
01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 1: on one occasion, somebody who should be nameless trying to

1373
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:41,640
Speaker 1: flush himself down a toilet. True story, I personally rescued him.

1374
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,599
Speaker 1: I mean he was going to going nowhere, obviously, but

1375
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 1: he was in the toilet bowl, yanking on the chain,

1376
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 1: try and determined to end it all. So I drank

1377
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:56,960
Speaker 1: him out. And is it an airport? And I got

1378
01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: him on the plane soaking wet. But no, we weren't.

1379
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:05,960
Speaker 1: We weren't no names to be mentioned. In fact, forget

1380
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 1: that I even said any of that. I just made

1381
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:11,680
Speaker 1: it up. It's not a true story. Who came up

1382
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 1: with and how did you create the riff for to

1383
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:18,000
Speaker 1: cry of a song? Well, I have to credit the

1384
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:21,080
Speaker 1: people who worked in that kind of Vein. I mean,

1385
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton and Cream had already come and gone by

1386
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: then in the sense of Cream being a not a

1387
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: direct influence, but they were the the obvious precursors to

1388
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:35,440
Speaker 1: Led Zeppelin and Jeth Retell arriving on American shores. Cream

1389
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: did you know, after the after Homer's Home Is Dave

1390
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,519
Speaker 1: Clark five, the Beatles, then the Cream were the next

1391
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 1: big thing. They just stampeded across the country being this amazing,

1392
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: doing it on their own terms, not not not not

1393
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 1: in any way fitting into any mold. And that's why

1394
01:23:56,439 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 1: America loved Cream because they quite clearly really did care

1395
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 1: whether you like them or not. They were going to

1396
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,320
Speaker 1: do what they did when they got on the stage,

1397
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 1: and if you didn't like it fair enough, if you

1398
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: did like it, then you know, thanks will take the

1399
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 1: money and run. So Cream were the first example of

1400
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 1: that kind of hit and run band who really didn't

1401
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:17,719
Speaker 1: care whether you like them or not. And when Zeppelin

1402
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: came in, it was just the same. They gave that

1403
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 1: impression they were there doing this for them. It was

1404
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: very hedonistic, very self serving, and they really didn't care

1405
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 1: whether you like them or not. And I probably picked

1406
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: up on a bit of that. I think in the

1407
01:24:31,439 --> 01:24:34,719
Speaker 1: early days of jethro Tell and you know, it seemed

1408
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 1: to be what Americans generally speaking, seemed to seem to

1409
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:45,719
Speaker 1: really be drawn towards people who didn't try to appeal,

1410
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:49,559
Speaker 1: they didn't try too hard to be liked. They sort

1411
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: of recognized the genuine and the honest nature of bands

1412
01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 1: who just came and did their thing, whereas there there

1413
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: were others who desperately wanted to be successful in the

1414
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 1: USA because that was the big prize, was to be

1415
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:07,320
Speaker 1: a hit in the USA, and they conspicuously tried too hard,

1416
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 1: and the American audiences seemed to see through that and

1417
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 1: reject them as some as wanting it too badly. Um,

1418
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: so I guess they came across across maybe as being

1419
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,880
Speaker 1: you know, not genuine again mentioning no names, but we

1420
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 1: you know, we we had a few bands who period

1421
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 1: with us, who tried too hard and didn't do well

1422
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:32,800
Speaker 1: at all. Um, but we didn't really care that much.

1423
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 1: So the next step is actually, sorry, I'm mentioning. Yeah,

1424
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:37,800
Speaker 1: you asked me about to cry, And so it was

1425
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 1: really it was a kind of a post cream. Eric Clapton,

1426
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 1: who in a band called Blind Faith and then and

1427
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 1: they Eat had a couple of good riffs in that,

1428
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: and I guess I took that as a not hopefully

1429
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: not to copy it, but just just to take as

1430
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 1: an example something that was a repetitive riff. And and

1431
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 1: to cry your song was was very much in the

1432
01:25:57,400 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 1: style of Eric Clapton at the time of Blind Faith.

1433
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 1: There's a song I can't remember what it's called, Dad

1434
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: da da da da da da da da duh. Yeah, well,

1435
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: it's it's that kind of a thing, you know, it's

1436
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,759
Speaker 1: the monophonic guitar riff on the lowest strings. And Martin

1437
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 1: would sometimes lend me his electric guitar so I could

1438
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: write songs and and you know, come up with that

1439
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So the next step is aqualon you

1440
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:28,960
Speaker 1: create it. Do you have any idea how big it

1441
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 1: will be? Sometimes, you know, people say I was totally

1442
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 1: close to other people say, as soon as it sits,

1443
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:37,679
Speaker 1: the market's gonna go Guard Gangewin suddenly Jeff Road tall

1444
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 1: as big as they were before Everywhere headline arenas did

1445
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: you anticipate that well. On the last day of mixing

1446
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: the album, um, which had been a bit of a

1447
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 1: tortious experience because it was a brand new studio that

1448
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 1: Island Records had just built conversion from an old church

1449
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:00,799
Speaker 1: and in London, and there are a lot of technical problems,

1450
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: teething problems with the studio that Zeppelin were in. The

1451
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:06,280
Speaker 1: in the same studio where they were in the crypt

1452
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 1: of the of the church, which was a much more

1453
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:11,680
Speaker 1: compact and nicer sounding room to work in. We were

1454
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: in the main body of the church. It was just

1455
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:19,879
Speaker 1: echoing and horrible and cold and strange atmosphere and technically

1456
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,720
Speaker 1: a lot of problems. So it wasn't you know, I

1457
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 1: wasn't really sure what we had. I mean songs, you know,

1458
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: I felt fairly confident about most of the songs, but

1459
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 1: sonically in terms of the end result, I was, you know,

1460
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:35,719
Speaker 1: a little worried about it. And John Evans, the keyboard player,

1461
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,519
Speaker 1: and I we went we've been working all night and

1462
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 1: we went out to in the early hours of the

1463
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: morning to some little cafe that served taxi drivers and

1464
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 1: off duty policeman and things with a hot breakfast at

1465
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning or something. So we sat

1466
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: in this place and I remember sitting there, we were

1467
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 1: eating some breakfast and dead tired, just you know, we're

1468
01:27:57,680 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: going to go straight to bed, home to bed after that.

1469
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: And I said to John, what do you think, you know, what,

1470
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:05,680
Speaker 1: what do you think we've got here? Is it? Is

1471
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 1: it going to work? And he looked at me as

1472
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I said, no, I don't know either.

1473
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I remember that definite feeling of being

1474
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,400
Speaker 1: a little nervous that it was either going to be

1475
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: the beginning of the end or it could be the

1476
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 1: beginning of the next sort of step up the ladder.

1477
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:27,600
Speaker 1: And I really had no idea. And we delivered the

1478
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: record of the record company, and you know, it was

1479
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: Julie pressed and put out and some media response, but

1480
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't huge. You know, I have to say, there

1481
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 1: wasn't a out of the box. It didn't set everybody

1482
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:44,559
Speaker 1: on fire, you know, it was it was okay, it

1483
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 1: is so pretty well. And some of the music on

1484
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:53,879
Speaker 1: the album, I suppose Aqualung song My God for example,

1485
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: that they were and Locomotive Breath. In Europe particularly, they

1486
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 1: made an impact acts um, partly because the subject matter

1487
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: and partly because of the music. But it was doing okay,

1488
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 1: but nowhere near what it became over the next two

1489
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:17,000
Speaker 1: or three years when it gradually with us performing more

1490
01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:19,120
Speaker 1: shows and different parts of the world and bringing out

1491
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,400
Speaker 1: new albums aqual and continued to sell at at a

1492
01:29:22,479 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 1: very steady and generous pace. And um, and I suppose

1493
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: more than anything else, became the the archetypal jethro Tyle record,

1494
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 1: not only of the seventies but of all time, and

1495
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:39,559
Speaker 1: in many ways because it was a mixture of rock music,

1496
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:45,920
Speaker 1: of gentle acoustic music, of quirky, you know, fun music,

1497
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:52,639
Speaker 1: and strange, really very insular and gentle moments that were

1498
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,240
Speaker 1: sort of singer songwriters stuff. It was a mixture of

1499
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 1: music in terms of dynamic range and musical style, and

1500
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: I think that, um, you know, that was part of

1501
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:08,040
Speaker 1: what gave it an identity. That's people probably didn't like

1502
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 1: every song on the album, but the doubtless there were

1503
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 1: people who really loved the acoustic songs and weren't that

1504
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 1: struck with the loud rock ones and vice versa. But

1505
01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:20,959
Speaker 1: there was something in there perhaps for a broad spectrum

1506
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:27,559
Speaker 1: of listeners. And it's certainly kind of broke open all

1507
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 1: of the European territories for us because we hadn't we

1508
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 1: spent too much time playing in the USA and the UK,

1509
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 1: and it was really with Aqua Lung that we were

1510
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 1: then playing frequently, giving equal time to all the European

1511
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:42,080
Speaker 1: countries where we could perform, and that it really took

1512
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 1: off broadly in Europe as well, in Spain and Italy

1513
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,639
Speaker 1: and France and Germany, and so we were we were

1514
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:52,719
Speaker 1: becoming quite international really at that point in terms of

1515
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 1: not being the biggest band on planet Earth, but being

1516
01:30:56,400 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: you know, one of the you know, one of the

1517
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:04,559
Speaker 1: the lesser but sort of well known and appreciated groups

1518
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 1: that were not mainstream in terms of the rock music

1519
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: that was the most successful and popular. So we were

1520
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 1: doing doing okay. So the next albums thick as a brick.

1521
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:25,799
Speaker 1: To what degree was that premeditated I'm talking about music

1522
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 1: one long piece? And to what degree was it just

1523
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 1: kind of a lark, let's just do something different. Well,

1524
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:34,280
Speaker 1: it was both of those things. It was predicated really

1525
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:39,680
Speaker 1: on the fact that Aqualung had a few songs that

1526
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: maybe kind of tied together a little bit um and

1527
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 1: and then the packaging and the album cover and the

1528
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 1: way that the album was sequenced on side one and

1529
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 1: side two along with the liner notes. I tried to

1530
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 1: bring a bunch of rather disparate songs and music styles,

1531
01:31:57,200 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 1: try and bring them together a bit with the with

1532
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:02,960
Speaker 1: them with artwork and packaging, which would sort of draw

1533
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:07,640
Speaker 1: things together a bit, even if they didn't deserve it.

1534
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:10,880
Speaker 1: And I think that gave people the impression this was

1535
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 1: a concept album, which it really wasn't. And ill from

1536
01:32:14,439 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: the word go, I said, this is not a concept album.

1537
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of songs, you know, but music critics

1538
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:24,640
Speaker 1: and writers were determined to perpetuate this idea that it

1539
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: was a concept album. So naturally I came to start

1540
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:33,320
Speaker 1: work on another album and thought, right, well, they thought

1541
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 1: that was a concept album, Let's give them the mother

1542
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 1: of all concept albums and go completely over the top

1543
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 1: in a you know, in a very exaggerated way. And

1544
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 1: I just thought of this kind of parody really of

1545
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:52,479
Speaker 1: concept albums, prog rock, you know, pretending it being written

1546
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:58,719
Speaker 1: by an eight year old boy, and and and writing

1547
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:03,519
Speaker 1: an album through the through the eyes of childhood, but

1548
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 1: a childhood distorted by the post war years of growing

1549
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:11,719
Speaker 1: up with a lot of prejudices and views that came

1550
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 1: down to a young generation of people from that postwar

1551
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 1: derision of our of our opponents, and you know, we

1552
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:25,679
Speaker 1: we talked about Jerry as the un We talked about

1553
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 1: the Japs. You know, we we were we were taught

1554
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:34,559
Speaker 1: to be really rather unpleasant and rather right wing, nasty

1555
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 1: little children, and we didn't turn out that way. But

1556
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 1: you know that that was what came down, that that

1557
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:44,800
Speaker 1: was the sort of general tenor of children's comics and literature.

1558
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,560
Speaker 1: You know, we it was reinforcing a lot of stereotypes

1559
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 1: that I think we could have done with that. But

1560
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:52,479
Speaker 1: on the other hand, it was mostly a bit of fun.

1561
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 1: And I think most of us just recognized that, well, okay,

1562
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 1: you know, our parents went to war and did all this,

1563
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:00,679
Speaker 1: that that's the way it's that's the way we're being

1564
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 1: handed down that message. But I couldn't help but feel

1565
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:06,599
Speaker 1: that as a child growing up, that you know, you've

1566
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:08,720
Speaker 1: got to try to make sense of a difficult world.

1567
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 1: You've got to try and make sense of the things

1568
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:16,360
Speaker 1: that are stereotypical, that are prejudice, that are um perhaps

1569
01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 1: adult ideas that are increasingly becoming irrelevant as as time

1570
01:34:22,520 --> 01:34:25,720
Speaker 1: goes on. And so I wanted to try and see

1571
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 1: through the eyes of a child making sense of a

1572
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,599
Speaker 1: difficult adult world and that's really what the album was about.

1573
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it may seem like, well, it is

1574
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:36,680
Speaker 1: on the one hand, a spoof for parody, a lighthearted

1575
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 1: bit of fun, but it also has a quite a

1576
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 1: serious message lying underlying the whole thing. And I would write,

1577
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,240
Speaker 1: um the album in you know that I'd do the

1578
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 1: next three minutes in the morning when I woke up,

1579
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, quite early. Usually I start working around eight

1580
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: or nine in the morning and write the next three

1581
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:58,120
Speaker 1: or four minutes of music. And then after lunch I

1582
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 1: would go and meet the guys rehearsal room in the

1583
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: south of London, in the Rolling Stones rehearsal Room, and

1584
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,599
Speaker 1: and then we would add we'd learned what I wrote

1585
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 1: that morning and added to what I've done the day before.

1586
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 1: And so we built up the album over a period

1587
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:15,439
Speaker 1: about ten days of rehearsal so that we could play

1588
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 1: it all the way through. And then we went into

1589
01:35:18,120 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: the recording studio and we played it all the way

1590
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 1: through and took another ten days to record the album,

1591
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:27,280
Speaker 1: and then actually a bit longer to do the album

1592
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:31,640
Speaker 1: cover because it was quite involved and you know, it

1593
01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 1: took quite a bit of time putting it all together

1594
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 1: and shooting all the photographs and doing everything. Actually took

1595
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 1: longer to do the album cover than it did to

1596
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 1: record the record, but it was worth it again because

1597
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:44,759
Speaker 1: it was one of those zany ideas. I mean, Terry

1598
01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 1: our manager, he really didn't like the album covered. Nobody did.

1599
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:51,879
Speaker 1: They thought this was just insane, you know, sixteen page

1600
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:55,600
Speaker 1: newspaper is an album cover and even but he, you know,

1601
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:57,479
Speaker 1: he kind of went along with it, as he did

1602
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: with them the first album, and it um, it was

1603
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 1: part and parcel of what made that album, you know,

1604
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 1: kind of stand out from the crowd, And poor old

1605
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: John Lennon had embarked upon an album which was released

1606
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:16,000
Speaker 1: shortly afterwards and was already in the works at the

1607
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 1: time when Things as the Brick was released and actually

1608
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:20,880
Speaker 1: went to number one in the American charts, and and

1609
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 1: John Lennon's album, which featured the front cover front page

1610
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 1: of the New York Times, was released shortly afterwards, and

1611
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,679
Speaker 1: of course he and his record company must have seen,

1612
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:33,679
Speaker 1: you know, this idea has already been done and out

1613
01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:36,840
Speaker 1: there and is bigger and better in the sixteen phays newspaper.

1614
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:38,600
Speaker 1: But you can't pull it, you know, he did that

1615
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,919
Speaker 1: they had already printed, however, million copies of John Lennon's

1616
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:45,519
Speaker 1: album and the artwork and everything, So it must have

1617
01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: been quite galling in a way. You know, when you

1618
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:49,920
Speaker 1: you've got an idea, you think, wow, this is good,

1619
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:53,360
Speaker 1: and then somebody's actually beaten you to it and and

1620
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:56,920
Speaker 1: quietly sneaked something out there, and now you're you're the

1621
01:36:57,160 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 1: you're the imitators and the late most to an idea

1622
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,400
Speaker 1: that I think it was very important to the album.

1623
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:05,759
Speaker 1: It was one of the worst John Lennon albums anyway,

1624
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: sometime in New York City, So don't worry about it.

1625
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:11,320
Speaker 1: But let's talk about that album cover. I asked about

1626
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:14,640
Speaker 1: the standing up on stand up we have because of

1627
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 1: brick rock history is littered with acts bitching about their

1628
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:23,479
Speaker 1: label saying they wouldn't let me do it, or they

1629
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:26,280
Speaker 1: let me do it, and I had to eat the price.

1630
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: You had a very unique situation and that your managers

1631
01:37:31,240 --> 01:37:36,240
Speaker 1: were the record company. Now in America, they were distributed

1632
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:39,720
Speaker 1: by other labels, Warner Brothers Center. By the end of

1633
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:43,200
Speaker 1: the by time you at the eighties, they have their

1634
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 1: own freestanding company. So a number of questions, what did

1635
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,920
Speaker 1: Terry Ella's do, What did Chris Wright do? And I

1636
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:56,800
Speaker 1: always felt that Chrysalis was built on the back of

1637
01:37:56,920 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 1: jeth Row Tall, So I wonder did they acknowledge that

1638
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 1: financially they give you a piece of the company because

1639
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 1: for a long time, Jethro Top was the only successful act.

1640
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:09,920
Speaker 1: So how did it work with you and your managers?

1641
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 1: And the money Molley began when nobody wanted to record

1642
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:20,920
Speaker 1: Jet Hotel back in and Terry's I believe his father's

1643
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:25,639
Speaker 1: bank manager loaned some money and so Terry and Chris

1644
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 1: took the chance and we made the records with borrowed money.

1645
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 1: We had no record company, no deal, and then they

1646
01:38:33,439 --> 01:38:36,439
Speaker 1: hawked around the tapes to try and find a deal,

1647
01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 1: and eventually Chris BLACKWELLO Island Records took it on and

1648
01:38:40,920 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 1: um and it was released through Ireland, the first album.

1649
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:51,200
Speaker 1: And and then Terry and Chris had a you know,

1650
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:53,120
Speaker 1: they're a little older than I was, but they were

1651
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 1: learning on their feet, you know, they were learning the job,

1652
01:38:55,680 --> 01:39:00,599
Speaker 1: learning about the music industry, and so they ankered after

1653
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 1: not just being agents or managers, but the idea of

1654
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:07,320
Speaker 1: having a record company. And and so crystalis Records was

1655
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 1: born as a label. They were able to renegotiate their

1656
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:13,160
Speaker 1: deal with Island Records in the UK and with Warder

1657
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 1: Warners in the USA, actually with the Reprise label who

1658
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:22,479
Speaker 1: then they got their label copy, but it was still

1659
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:26,479
Speaker 1: marketed and distributed by a major record company in the

1660
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:29,800
Speaker 1: in most most parts of the world, but it was

1661
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 1: it looked like a Crystalist record, and Jethro Tell was

1662
01:39:32,960 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 1: the first act to be signed to Crystalists. But it

1663
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 1: would be a little bit too generous to say, um, Crystalists,

1664
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:44,960
Speaker 1: it was founded on the back of Jets Hotel or

1665
01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, there's a bunch of other acts at that point.

1666
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 1: You know, we were all important to Crystalist records and

1667
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 1: who else who else in the sixties early seventies on

1668
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:57,519
Speaker 1: Chrystmas had anywhere near the level of success of Jeff

1669
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:00,439
Speaker 1: roll Well ten years after did pretty well to begin with,

1670
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:03,640
Speaker 1: and then procol Harum for example, came along that they

1671
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:05,800
Speaker 1: were quite meaningful, and then a whole bunch of other

1672
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 1: acts um that that passed through the Crystalist ranks over

1673
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:12,519
Speaker 1: the next few years. But you know, sure Jester Hotel

1674
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:16,920
Speaker 1: was important, but i'm you know, I would Christened and

1675
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:22,680
Speaker 1: Terry are both generously said that Obviously Jesstel was very

1676
01:40:22,720 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 1: important to them at the time, but you know, we

1677
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 1: weren't the only We weren't the only thing. I think

1678
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 1: they would have made it without Jethro Hotel. It's just

1679
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 1: that we that the process was speeded up a little

1680
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:37,720
Speaker 1: by the fact that we were successful enough that Terry

1681
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 1: and Chris could renegotiate the deals. And when they renegotiated

1682
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:44,800
Speaker 1: the deals for higher royalties and different deal structures, they

1683
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:48,240
Speaker 1: passed the benefits of that on to us. You know,

1684
01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 1: we we they they volunteered to say, hey, you know,

1685
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: you guys, you should get a bigger royalty now, because

1686
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 1: we're getting a bigger royalty, and so they were generously

1687
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: took that initiative. And I mean Terry and I were

1688
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 1: always I didn't have so much to do with with

1689
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 1: Chris because he was really more looking after ten years

1690
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 1: after in procol. But Terry was, you know, the one

1691
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:11,519
Speaker 1: focused on our careers, and he and I were always

1692
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 1: butting heads and disagreeing on a whole lot of stuff.

1693
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:18,040
Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, he won the argument, sometimes I

1694
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:21,280
Speaker 1: won the argument. And I think think as a brick

1695
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 1: album cover as an example of you know, me winning

1696
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:27,240
Speaker 1: the argument. I really think this is what we should do. Terry,

1697
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:29,920
Speaker 1: I think it's going to work. Other times. You know, Terry,

1698
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:33,000
Speaker 1: you know he was he was the one who was

1699
01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 1: responsible for the benefit album cover and I wasn't really

1700
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,639
Speaker 1: keen on it at all. But you know, okay, Terry,

1701
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 1: if you think this is right, let's do this. And

1702
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:44,160
Speaker 1: I think that was part of the relationship is that

1703
01:41:44,200 --> 01:41:47,360
Speaker 1: both of us had our very strong opinions, but we

1704
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:53,440
Speaker 1: were not not averse to having a discussion, however spirited

1705
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:57,760
Speaker 1: and sometimes loud it might be. But you know, we

1706
01:41:57,840 --> 01:42:01,679
Speaker 1: we both knew we could picturelate and say okay, let's

1707
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:03,880
Speaker 1: do it your way. And I think that was the

1708
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:07,479
Speaker 1: strength of that relationship that we were both learning as

1709
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 1: we went along. I was learning about the technical issues

1710
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:13,280
Speaker 1: of production and making records. He was learning about the

1711
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:16,680
Speaker 1: business side of not just managing the band, but you know,

1712
01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:19,800
Speaker 1: developing a record company. So you know, we got we

1713
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:23,400
Speaker 1: we got absolute can't blanche to do whatever we wanted

1714
01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:29,360
Speaker 1: in musical terms, and that those who were involved in

1715
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 1: the marketing and distribution, like Warners or or Ireland or

1716
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:35,600
Speaker 1: then BMG in the US, in in Europe, you know,

1717
01:42:35,680 --> 01:42:38,040
Speaker 1: they were just they were there to do a job,

1718
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 1: and they didn't really have any creative saying what we

1719
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:42,800
Speaker 1: were doing. I think Warners might have tried to do

1720
01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:45,800
Speaker 1: that in the early days, but they soon accepted that,

1721
01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, we were selling records and even if they

1722
01:42:48,240 --> 01:42:51,280
Speaker 1: didn't quite get it in terms of why they were selling,

1723
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 1: they they went along with it. And and we we

1724
01:42:56,240 --> 01:43:03,600
Speaker 1: we never had any any kind of um real uh,

1725
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 1: contentious input from record companies. You know, you quite often

1726
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:09,200
Speaker 1: they had no idea what they were getting to Let

1727
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:12,640
Speaker 1: deliver the master tapes. That was it. And you know,

1728
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:15,879
Speaker 1: Crystal has trusted me to do that, and I trusted

1729
01:43:15,920 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 1: them to once they've got the master tapes, and I

1730
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: trusted them to get on with it and do the

1731
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:23,080
Speaker 1: best job they could in terms of the the commercial

1732
01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 1: application of that. That that's the bit they were supposed

1733
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:27,920
Speaker 1: to be good at. Its exactly the same to this day.

1734
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,840
Speaker 1: You know, I hand over the master tapes, and when

1735
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 1: it comes to marketing and promotion, I'm a pussycat. I'm

1736
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:38,200
Speaker 1: paying somebody else, you know, effectively to to use their expertise,

1737
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 1: their knowledge and there and the weight of their the

1738
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:49,479
Speaker 1: their authority. In the case of inside out of boutique

1739
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 1: label and owned by Sony Records that we have distributed

1740
01:43:53,400 --> 01:44:00,080
Speaker 1: and marketing by Sony effectively, which is an ideal, an

1741
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 1: ideal blend of being with a major, But at the

1742
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 1: same time, at the front end we're with a sort

1743
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,759
Speaker 1: of boutique label, which is very much like how Chrysalis

1744
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:10,120
Speaker 1: were in the first two or three years. So um,

1745
01:44:10,479 --> 01:44:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, things come perhaps full circle in that regard.

1746
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the money needles. Say Chrysalis was

1747
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:22,760
Speaker 1: sold to E M I early nineties, h E M

1748
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:28,320
Speaker 1: I was ultimately sold again broken up at this late date.

1749
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:32,360
Speaker 1: Do you still get royalties for those jeth World Toll

1750
01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:37,120
Speaker 1: records in two Did you own the publishing or was

1751
01:44:37,200 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 1: the publishing split with Chrysalis, And what's the status of

1752
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 1: that today. Well, the royalty rate that we were on

1753
01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:46,760
Speaker 1: right at the beginning was a very small one. Is

1754
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:48,960
Speaker 1: better than the Beatles got when they started, but it

1755
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:52,840
Speaker 1: was a pretty small piece of the action. Um, and

1756
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:58,559
Speaker 1: then it was redressed considerably around the time of Thick

1757
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 1: as a Brick where we started, and quite quite a

1758
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:03,439
Speaker 1: meaningful royalty rate at that point. And I was also

1759
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:05,680
Speaker 1: getting paid as a producer because I was the guy

1760
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:08,519
Speaker 1: writing the music and producing the records. I was a

1761
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,439
Speaker 1: man in the studio taking on the mantle of all

1762
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 1: of that. By seventy four, I was running the business

1763
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:17,680
Speaker 1: of jet Rotele financially, so I was paying all the

1764
01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:21,479
Speaker 1: bills and running it is you know, from a commercial stand.

1765
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:25,840
Speaker 1: But what my company was UM. So we were getting

1766
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 1: a pretty good royalty rate at that point, UM, and

1767
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:31,320
Speaker 1: by I don't know, by the end of the seventies,

1768
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: we were on what was probably the you know, the

1769
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:36,479
Speaker 1: kind of highest level of royalty artist royalty rate that

1770
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:41,240
Speaker 1: anybody was getting paid. And Chris and Terry were always

1771
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, making sure that we were being rewarded in

1772
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 1: the same way as the highest paid artists of the day.

1773
01:45:47,120 --> 01:45:51,120
Speaker 1: So our contracts were being renewed and renegotiated and we

1774
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:53,400
Speaker 1: were getting better deals. But you know, it was never

1775
01:45:53,479 --> 01:45:56,320
Speaker 1: a subject of no one was being held hostage or anything.

1776
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:58,920
Speaker 1: You know, It was just that I think it was

1777
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:01,560
Speaker 1: recognized that you you were all there to share the

1778
01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:05,360
Speaker 1: benefits together, and so you try and be fair about it. UM.

1779
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:07,920
Speaker 1: But the publishing side of it, you know, originally was

1780
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:13,280
Speaker 1: published you know, it's Chrystalis Publishing. And then along the way,

1781
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:18,519
Speaker 1: Crystalis UM went into the publishing side with BMG, So

1782
01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:21,960
Speaker 1: it was Christmas BMG and then um, and then it

1783
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:24,479
Speaker 1: became just BMG, which is just to day. And I'm

1784
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:28,720
Speaker 1: I'm still published by BMG at the same rate as

1785
01:46:28,760 --> 01:46:30,880
Speaker 1: it was when I was published by in the latter

1786
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:35,479
Speaker 1: days of crystalis so um, you know, without without without

1787
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:37,600
Speaker 1: going into the percentage terms, it's about as high as

1788
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:39,880
Speaker 1: you can get. That comes to me, and they get

1789
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:43,000
Speaker 1: the sort of you know what I suppose is for

1790
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:47,599
Speaker 1: probably fairly standard in the business for people of our statue. Um.

1791
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:50,040
Speaker 1: So yes, I mean I owned the publishing and I

1792
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:53,680
Speaker 1: that was in the days of Terry and Chris. You know,

1793
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:55,840
Speaker 1: they said, well you should own your own publishing. It's

1794
01:46:55,880 --> 01:46:58,479
Speaker 1: that you're writing all these songs. And you know, if

1795
01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:02,800
Speaker 1: we if we make our cutters as the licensed publishers,

1796
01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:05,160
Speaker 1: then that's good. So that's the way that it worked.

1797
01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:08,679
Speaker 1: And so I continue to license our products and renew

1798
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:12,200
Speaker 1: those licenses with BMGH. I've got a long standing relationship

1799
01:47:12,280 --> 01:47:17,160
Speaker 1: with it goes back forty years or something. So it's

1800
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 1: the way that that one works. And in this day

1801
01:47:20,320 --> 01:47:23,200
Speaker 1: and age, you know, I know, I mean long gone

1802
01:47:23,240 --> 01:47:25,200
Speaker 1: of the days when I used to employ lawyers to

1803
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 1: negotiate record contracts. You know, we've figured that one out

1804
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:31,679
Speaker 1: a long time ago. So quite happy to feel confident

1805
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:34,560
Speaker 1: in negotiating a record contract these days and for some

1806
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 1: years in the past. And and so I I know

1807
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:40,160
Speaker 1: how all that works. I know what the deal points

1808
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:42,559
Speaker 1: and the structures and all the small print are all about.

1809
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:45,320
Speaker 1: And you know, at the royalty rate that we get

1810
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:49,880
Speaker 1: today is um. You know, it's the it's it's it's

1811
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:54,000
Speaker 1: that's sort of top rate you would get. Um. I

1812
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:56,920
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't. I don't believe anybody gets more

1813
01:47:57,840 --> 01:47:59,920
Speaker 1: than we get. What they might get is bigger. Advanced

1814
01:48:00,080 --> 01:48:03,320
Speaker 1: is But I'm not an advanced guy. I just say, look,

1815
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:05,719
Speaker 1: keep your money. You know, when we sold the record,

1816
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:08,720
Speaker 1: then you can pay me. But record companies and their

1817
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:10,920
Speaker 1: cash flows and all the rest of it, they sometimes

1818
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:12,960
Speaker 1: insist us to promoters or we want to pay you

1819
01:48:13,080 --> 01:48:17,040
Speaker 1: some in advance. And so yeah, you know, I don't

1820
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:19,439
Speaker 1: mind having an advance, but I'm more comfortable and getting

1821
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:23,040
Speaker 1: a high royalty and a notional advance just as an

1822
01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:25,639
Speaker 1: act of good faith to make sure that having laid

1823
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:27,920
Speaker 1: out some money, a record company going to make the

1824
01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:31,640
Speaker 1: effort to try and sell product in order to recoup

1825
01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 1: their advance. But I'm always, always much prefer to have

1826
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:40,200
Speaker 1: a big royalty small advance. And if record companies want

1827
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:41,920
Speaker 1: to pay me a bigger advance, well that that's fine,

1828
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 1: but it's not what I'm shooting for at all. I

1829
01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:45,760
Speaker 1: just want to I just want a good royalty rate.

1830
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:48,200
Speaker 1: We're all we're all in the business of risk together.

1831
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:51,160
Speaker 1: It seems to me that you know, the back end

1832
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 1: is the important thing. If you've done well, then that's

1833
01:48:54,200 --> 01:48:56,960
Speaker 1: when you can afford to be generous. If you're a

1834
01:48:57,840 --> 01:48:59,439
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a record company, you can afford

1835
01:48:59,479 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: to pay your ours generously once we've sold the records.

1836
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:05,720
Speaker 1: If you don't sell them, everybody's a loser. And that

1837
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:07,439
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be the business I want to be

1838
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:10,639
Speaker 1: in for sure. Would you ever sell your publishing, which

1839
01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:12,479
Speaker 1: is something that's happening with a lot of acts of

1840
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,799
Speaker 1: your vintage at this point, Well that that that process

1841
01:49:15,920 --> 01:49:18,240
Speaker 1: came back. I came up many, many, many years ago

1842
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:21,160
Speaker 1: as the idea of cashing in on your publishing and

1843
01:49:22,040 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 1: taking a lump sum or taking a lump sum, you know,

1844
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 1: selling it for a period of time and then getting

1845
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:28,479
Speaker 1: it back. I mean, all of that's been going off

1846
01:49:28,600 --> 01:49:31,000
Speaker 1: years and years and years, and frankly it's not something

1847
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:32,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I looked at it, you know,

1848
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:34,439
Speaker 1: I've had a couple of offers to do that, but

1849
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 1: it's not something that it's very hard to value because

1850
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:42,080
Speaker 1: especially with a swing towards digital UM technology and digital

1851
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:45,640
Speaker 1: UM ways of getting music, you know, when it when

1852
01:49:45,680 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 1: it's you're dealing in the world of streaming and hardly

1853
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 1: any paid downloads these days. It's mostly streaming and of

1854
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:56,800
Speaker 1: course physical products. That it's quite difficult really to put

1855
01:49:56,880 --> 01:50:00,320
Speaker 1: a value on the on the residual life of of

1856
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:06,320
Speaker 1: copyright UM in publishing terms as fairly generous, you know,

1857
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:08,880
Speaker 1: seventy five years after the death of the composer, but

1858
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:13,519
Speaker 1: in up until a few years ago UM in the UK,

1859
01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:17,000
Speaker 1: the life of copyright was was really rather minimal. It

1860
01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:20,240
Speaker 1: was it was fifty years UM and then it went.

1861
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:24,559
Speaker 1: And so we were facing the time when many acts

1862
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:27,400
Speaker 1: of the sixties were going to fall out of copyright,

1863
01:50:28,840 --> 01:50:31,719
Speaker 1: some of them famous people like the Beatles, but hundreds

1864
01:50:31,760 --> 01:50:34,160
Speaker 1: and hundreds and hundreds of artists who maybe only ever

1865
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:37,600
Speaker 1: had one hit or some marginal record sales suddenly that

1866
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,000
Speaker 1: that that little royalty that they were depending on every

1867
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:43,960
Speaker 1: year to pay for the heating bill or to you know,

1868
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:46,720
Speaker 1: put food on the table was going to disappear. And

1869
01:50:47,479 --> 01:50:51,240
Speaker 1: I was one of those people, you know, making a

1870
01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:55,680
Speaker 1: strong play with the UK government for extending life of

1871
01:50:55,760 --> 01:51:01,360
Speaker 1: copyright for um in recorded product and the Prime Minister

1872
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:03,640
Speaker 1: of the day who I went to meet with and

1873
01:51:03,720 --> 01:51:05,599
Speaker 1: tried to persuade him and did some back of an

1874
01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:08,639
Speaker 1: envelope calculations to point out the value to the exchequer

1875
01:51:08,760 --> 01:51:11,400
Speaker 1: of keeping copyright going and what this meant in terms

1876
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:16,919
Speaker 1: of gathering tax um. Just it was taking a political

1877
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:21,360
Speaker 1: view that copyright was something old fashioned and should be

1878
01:51:21,439 --> 01:51:26,200
Speaker 1: free for everybody, blah blah blah. But luckily through the EU,

1879
01:51:26,360 --> 01:51:29,040
Speaker 1: in fact it was reversed and we did in fact

1880
01:51:29,040 --> 01:51:32,400
Speaker 1: get an extension to the life of copyright more or

1881
01:51:32,479 --> 01:51:35,320
Speaker 1: less in parallel with how it already was in the USA.

1882
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:38,360
Speaker 1: So it's it's become a little more generous. And it

1883
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:40,840
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that's a little more value in copyright than

1884
01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:43,400
Speaker 1: there was perhaps twenty years ago in the UK. I

1885
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:45,800
Speaker 1: mean it would be valued a little higher, you know,

1886
01:51:46,080 --> 01:51:51,040
Speaker 1: the residual rights of of copyright, and I don't think,

1887
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:55,200
Speaker 1: personally speaking, I would ever be seduced into selling copyright,

1888
01:51:55,280 --> 01:51:57,600
Speaker 1: and I think I would rather I would rather be

1889
01:51:57,720 --> 01:52:04,240
Speaker 1: passing it on to my family, um initially and continuing

1890
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:08,840
Speaker 1: to you know, pay tax on that revenue, which is

1891
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:13,240
Speaker 1: um is to me, I'd rather be at the focus,

1892
01:52:13,360 --> 01:52:17,320
Speaker 1: the center of it, rather than is somebody else's asset

1893
01:52:18,160 --> 01:52:22,839
Speaker 1: to fool around with and offset against other corporate losses

1894
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:24,559
Speaker 1: or do whatever they might do with it. I mean,

1895
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:28,799
Speaker 1: I just really would rather I and my successors entitled

1896
01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:32,519
Speaker 1: or hands on about it. I mean, Luckily, I have

1897
01:52:32,600 --> 01:52:35,320
Speaker 1: a son who's grown up with me in the music industry,

1898
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:39,559
Speaker 1: and so he's you know, he's he understands all this stuff,

1899
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:44,080
Speaker 1: and Will is already taking a an increasingly leading role

1900
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:50,559
Speaker 1: in managing the assets of of both my personal musical

1901
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:54,000
Speaker 1: income and the corporate musical income, and he one day,

1902
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,080
Speaker 1: not too far from now, will be it will all

1903
01:52:57,160 --> 01:52:59,960
Speaker 1: be on his shoulders. He may decide, hey, I've had enough,

1904
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:02,519
Speaker 1: I want to sell it. When that's that's his decision,

1905
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:08,400
Speaker 1: not mine. Ultimately, release Crest of the nave In becomes

1906
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:12,479
Speaker 1: mega successful. But also the inside story is the album

1907
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:16,360
Speaker 1: was focused group in terms of what singles. So did

1908
01:53:16,439 --> 01:53:19,080
Speaker 1: you know that would be a commercial comeback into what

1909
01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:23,639
Speaker 1: degree was the focused story true and did it affect

1910
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:27,840
Speaker 1: anything on the record. Well, I I may be wrong

1911
01:53:27,920 --> 01:53:29,759
Speaker 1: in this, but I do think it was my idea

1912
01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:31,680
Speaker 1: that we did that because I wasn't really sure that

1913
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:35,840
Speaker 1: there has been a huge change in not so much

1914
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:38,320
Speaker 1: in Europe, but certainly in the USA. That's big swing

1915
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:40,519
Speaker 1: away from what used to be called a O R

1916
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:47,240
Speaker 1: radio too very tightly regimented and researched playlists UM, and

1917
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:52,200
Speaker 1: the swing away from that a our album product to

1918
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:57,720
Speaker 1: alternative rock and contemporary pop and rock, and stations like UM,

1919
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:01,400
Speaker 1: like KLOS or double any W suddenly that they were

1920
01:54:01,439 --> 01:54:04,560
Speaker 1: trying to get hip and do the new thing, and

1921
01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:07,600
Speaker 1: and they changed their format, their playlists and everything, and

1922
01:54:07,680 --> 01:54:11,080
Speaker 1: jet rteal just wasn't getting radio but sorry, playtime anymore

1923
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:13,200
Speaker 1: in the in the way that we had during the seventies.

1924
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:18,040
Speaker 1: But I think what happened was that the audiences that

1925
01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 1: the demographic that the American radio was increasingly playing to

1926
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:26,320
Speaker 1: prove to be fickle. They didn't actually spend the money

1927
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:29,479
Speaker 1: on the products that were being advertised on American radio

1928
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 1: in the way that's been before, and so gradually it

1929
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 1: swung back again to to not a complete reversion, but

1930
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:42,520
Speaker 1: to something that then became known as classic rock. And

1931
01:54:43,120 --> 01:54:45,040
Speaker 1: many of those stations then went back to playing the

1932
01:54:45,160 --> 01:54:49,600
Speaker 1: kind of music that they played before. And I assume

1933
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:54,720
Speaker 1: they replenished their coffers because the slightly older demographic was

1934
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 1: was supporting the advertising that brought them their revenue. And

1935
01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:01,840
Speaker 1: it we we began just to sort of get a

1936
01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:04,000
Speaker 1: sniff of that, I suppose in the latter part of

1937
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:07,280
Speaker 1: the eighties, and I suggested that we should play the

1938
01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:10,040
Speaker 1: record initially, not to the media, not to the press,

1939
01:55:10,680 --> 01:55:13,280
Speaker 1: because chances are we've got a rough ride and people

1940
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:16,000
Speaker 1: would not be approving. I said, why don't we play

1941
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:18,160
Speaker 1: it to the fans, you know, and get a body

1942
01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:21,600
Speaker 1: of thought and opinion, and we can, you know, maybe

1943
01:55:21,720 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 1: choose the lead tracks we put to radio as a

1944
01:55:26,040 --> 01:55:28,480
Speaker 1: result of what we think jeth rot Health fans want.

1945
01:55:29,320 --> 01:55:32,080
Speaker 1: And and we did that to a degree, I mean,

1946
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 1: not not in a hugely detailed, massive survey, but you know,

1947
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:38,880
Speaker 1: to a small focus group kind of thing. And it

1948
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:42,600
Speaker 1: got the record company interested. That was the most important thing.

1949
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:46,160
Speaker 1: Is it energized the record company a little bit because

1950
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:48,320
Speaker 1: they were getting direct feedback from the fans who were

1951
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:51,000
Speaker 1: going to buy this record or not. And I think

1952
01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:53,000
Speaker 1: that's what what got them to sit up and take

1953
01:55:53,080 --> 01:55:58,560
Speaker 1: notice of Crest of Benave and and the New York

1954
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:02,200
Speaker 1: office of Crystalists were suddenly making a lot more effort

1955
01:56:02,240 --> 01:56:05,600
Speaker 1: than they perhaps had been to sell products and and

1956
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:07,600
Speaker 1: to and to promote it in a way that was

1957
01:56:07,840 --> 01:56:11,480
Speaker 1: much more hands on and active. And the promo guy

1958
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:17,640
Speaker 1: in New York was was, you know, really um you know,

1959
01:56:17,680 --> 01:56:19,600
Speaker 1: you really took it on as a personal crusade to

1960
01:56:19,680 --> 01:56:22,400
Speaker 1: try and get your hotel noticed. And we got some

1961
01:56:22,680 --> 01:56:27,840
Speaker 1: MTV play, and generally speaking, we um, we were. We

1962
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:32,400
Speaker 1: were not exactly back in favor, but we were getting

1963
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:36,480
Speaker 1: noticed again. And and the record company then nominated us

1964
01:56:36,560 --> 01:56:40,600
Speaker 1: for a Grammy and a new Grammy category and the

1965
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:42,760
Speaker 1: rest of all that story, of course you know or

1966
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:47,280
Speaker 1: too well, but it was just the beginning of um

1967
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:51,480
Speaker 1: of It wasn't exactly a comeback. It was just sort

1968
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:54,480
Speaker 1: of in a way, well you said, refocusing jet hotel

1969
01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:57,240
Speaker 1: with a with a with a demographic that that kind

1970
01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:00,320
Speaker 1: of knew us already, and it was just remind people

1971
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:02,760
Speaker 1: we were still around, and you know very much that

1972
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:05,640
Speaker 1: that is not that is not just due to me

1973
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:08,000
Speaker 1: or the record, but it was the efforts of crystalists,

1974
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:11,280
Speaker 1: particularly in the USA, and particularly of Kevin Sutter, the

1975
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:13,640
Speaker 1: promo guy in New York. He was, you know, he

1976
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:16,000
Speaker 1: should take the credit for a lot of the success

1977
01:57:16,040 --> 01:57:18,600
Speaker 1: of that album. Well, he's always told me the story.

1978
01:57:18,680 --> 01:57:23,400
Speaker 1: Good to have it confirmed by you. Now somewhere around

1979
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:28,720
Speaker 1: thick as a bricks, certainly passion play, the media turns

1980
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:33,880
Speaker 1: against Jeff row Tall. Did you sense this? And I

1981
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:38,200
Speaker 1: would say, generally speaking, jeth Row Toll doesn't get any respect,

1982
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:42,600
Speaker 1: although I believe it deserves so much. And then some people,

1983
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:45,280
Speaker 1: you know, put it in the progressive camp. It's not

1984
01:57:45,440 --> 01:57:48,840
Speaker 1: in the progressive camp in my particular world. How do

1985
01:57:48,920 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 1: you view all that? And I think that any band,

1986
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:55,560
Speaker 1: any artists, will there will be a love affair with

1987
01:57:55,840 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 1: the critics and and the public alike for a mile,

1988
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 1: and maybe that last year three or four records, and

1989
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:07,960
Speaker 1: then something used coming along, and maybe, and understandably, particularly

1990
01:58:09,320 --> 01:58:13,400
Speaker 1: you know music journalists who have been perhaps flattered by

1991
01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:16,720
Speaker 1: record companies and managers and invited to concerts and given

1992
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:19,120
Speaker 1: free tickets and all the rest of it. Suddenly they

1993
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 1: begin to feel, you know, they're in the pocket potentially

1994
01:58:22,600 --> 01:58:25,200
Speaker 1: that people will see them as being a soft touch.

1995
01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:28,080
Speaker 1: They're always going to write good reviews and and necessarily

1996
01:58:28,120 --> 01:58:31,600
Speaker 1: they're going to say, no, well, this time we're going

1997
01:58:31,680 --> 01:58:34,480
Speaker 1: to buck against the system. We we we don't think

1998
01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:36,520
Speaker 1: this does deserve a good review. We're going to give

1999
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:40,280
Speaker 1: it a stinker, you know, and and show that we're

2000
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:43,600
Speaker 1: independent minds and independent writers. And I think to a

2001
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:46,720
Speaker 1: degree that's what happens, and certainly happened with Jester Tell

2002
01:58:46,760 --> 01:58:50,120
Speaker 1: around the time of a Passion play, most notably in

2003
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:53,720
Speaker 1: the UK press, but also in the USA too and

2004
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:57,480
Speaker 1: in Australia. I remember, we've got some really really bad reviews,

2005
01:58:57,720 --> 01:59:00,640
Speaker 1: and I can understand why, and to some extent I

2006
01:59:01,480 --> 01:59:03,520
Speaker 1: having known some of those journalists. I mean, I I

2007
01:59:04,960 --> 01:59:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, I had to say, look, hey, I think

2008
01:59:07,240 --> 01:59:08,960
Speaker 1: you got this about right. You know, it wasn't it

2009
01:59:09,080 --> 01:59:11,640
Speaker 1: wasn't that great. Had a lot of criticism could be

2010
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:14,680
Speaker 1: leveled at a Passion play, and some of it quite justifiably,

2011
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:18,400
Speaker 1: but of course it hurt at the time, but it

2012
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:22,920
Speaker 1: was greatly exaggerated, you know, especially with the ridiculous press story.

2013
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:27,000
Speaker 1: Jethro Hotel quit because of a horrible front page, bad

2014
01:59:27,080 --> 01:59:30,680
Speaker 1: review and Melody Maker. We didn't quit. The first thing

2015
01:59:30,760 --> 01:59:32,520
Speaker 1: I heard of it was when I walked down Oxford

2016
01:59:32,520 --> 01:59:35,720
Speaker 1: Street in London and saw the copies of Melody Maker

2017
01:59:35,800 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 1: on the news stand with this headline thing, and I what.

2018
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:42,280
Speaker 1: I bought one to read it, and I was absolutely insensed.

2019
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:44,240
Speaker 1: How what where did they get this from? So I

2020
01:59:44,760 --> 01:59:47,960
Speaker 1: went to the nearest phone box and called my manager,

2021
01:59:48,120 --> 01:59:50,600
Speaker 1: called Terry Ellis that Crystalists, said what the hell is this?

2022
01:59:50,720 --> 01:59:54,240
Speaker 1: Who who put this out? He said, ah, well, sorry,

2023
01:59:54,240 --> 01:59:56,000
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention it to you, But I thought

2024
01:59:56,040 --> 01:59:57,760
Speaker 1: this was a good idea. We've got another front page

2025
01:59:57,800 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 1: headline and Melody Maker. I mean one of the times

2026
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:03,880
Speaker 1: when Terry and I definitely butted heads and did not

2027
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:07,720
Speaker 1: agree on on the way forward. But it made us.

2028
02:00:07,800 --> 02:00:10,160
Speaker 1: I thought it just looked really rather petulant and stupid,

2029
02:00:10,280 --> 02:00:12,960
Speaker 1: and it took a while to come back from that.

2030
02:00:13,240 --> 02:00:16,360
Speaker 1: But I actually took Ray Coleman, the editor of Melody Maker,

2031
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:20,240
Speaker 1: to tars. Ray, you knew this wasn't right, you knew

2032
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,120
Speaker 1: you were being fed a line. You just you just

2033
02:00:22,240 --> 02:00:25,680
Speaker 1: went along with it because you were prepared to take

2034
02:00:25,720 --> 02:00:28,240
Speaker 1: it at face value because it was a big story

2035
02:00:28,280 --> 02:00:29,960
Speaker 1: you could use on the front page. You know, you

2036
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:32,280
Speaker 1: could have just picked up the phone to me and said,

2037
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:36,560
Speaker 1: is this right. I was a bit bit upset with

2038
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Ray and I mean, of course we did things together

2039
02:00:40,200 --> 02:00:42,040
Speaker 1: in the future, and he was a lovely chat but

2040
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, he was convenient for him to believe what

2041
02:00:44,480 --> 02:00:48,440
Speaker 1: he was being told, and it was. It was definitely

2042
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:54,840
Speaker 1: not not It was a total piece of manufactured front

2043
02:00:54,920 --> 02:01:00,520
Speaker 1: page grabbing hysteria and I think actually rather silly thing

2044
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:04,400
Speaker 1: to do. And what about the Prague Moniker. Well, I

2045
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:09,160
Speaker 1: was always very pleased to be in the realms of

2046
02:01:09,440 --> 02:01:12,720
Speaker 1: progressive rock in people's estimation, because that that term first

2047
02:01:12,880 --> 02:01:16,400
Speaker 1: came about as far as I'm aware, in the UK

2048
02:01:16,600 --> 02:01:19,800
Speaker 1: music press in nine and I first saw the term

2049
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:24,720
Speaker 1: progressive rock applied to a few bands, including Jeff Hotel,

2050
02:01:25,440 --> 02:01:27,360
Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, that's interesting. I quite like that.

2051
02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:30,840
Speaker 1: I quite like the idea being progressive rock. That's that

2052
02:01:31,080 --> 02:01:35,400
Speaker 1: seems to me what I do, and and so that

2053
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:37,720
Speaker 1: was fine. But then of course they got shortened to

2054
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:42,000
Speaker 1: Prague rock and then just Prague and by the time

2055
02:01:42,040 --> 02:01:45,560
Speaker 1: the early punks came along, Prague was a derisory term.

2056
02:01:45,640 --> 02:01:51,959
Speaker 1: Meant to meant to describe people who were um basically

2057
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:56,800
Speaker 1: obsessed with showing off the instrumental prowess, and who were

2058
02:01:57,400 --> 02:02:02,880
Speaker 1: arrogant and old fashioned and and generally speaking, you know,

2059
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:07,400
Speaker 1: up their own artists, to put it mildly, and and

2060
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:10,120
Speaker 1: I think probably bands like Yes and Genesis and Emerson

2061
02:02:10,200 --> 02:02:13,440
Speaker 1: Lake and Palm we do have to bear some responsibility

2062
02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:16,520
Speaker 1: for that. Great musicians and great artists as they were,

2063
02:02:16,600 --> 02:02:18,560
Speaker 1: but Jethro Tell was a bit more rough and ready,

2064
02:02:18,640 --> 02:02:21,840
Speaker 1: I think, a bit more, you know, but there was

2065
02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:24,120
Speaker 1: a rougher edge to what we did, partly because we

2066
02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:27,839
Speaker 1: weren't as good as they were in terms of musical ability,

2067
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:30,200
Speaker 1: but also there was an edge to some of the music,

2068
02:02:30,440 --> 02:02:34,560
Speaker 1: particularly in the lyrics. So um, I guess, um, I

2069
02:02:34,600 --> 02:02:38,440
Speaker 1: guess that's why some of the bands from the punk

2070
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:42,200
Speaker 1: era secretly were actually Jethro Hotel fans, like Johnny Rotten

2071
02:02:42,280 --> 02:02:45,480
Speaker 1: from the Sex Pistols, huge huge fan of Aqualung and

2072
02:02:45,560 --> 02:02:48,240
Speaker 1: then you know some of the other folks. Remember being

2073
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:52,280
Speaker 1: approached by Joey Ramone at a Swiss festival. It was

2074
02:02:52,360 --> 02:02:54,400
Speaker 1: just all over and we wanted autographs because his mom

2075
02:02:54,480 --> 02:02:59,360
Speaker 1: was a huge fan and and and the guitar player

2076
02:02:59,480 --> 02:03:03,040
Speaker 1: from the Had Hot Chili Peppers, or or the Guys

2077
02:03:03,080 --> 02:03:06,600
Speaker 1: and the Stranglers or Sting, and a whole bunch of

2078
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:08,800
Speaker 1: people who were part of that early punk thing. Who

2079
02:03:09,240 --> 02:03:13,320
Speaker 1: was secret jethro Hotel fans um. I mean, I know

2080
02:03:13,480 --> 02:03:16,320
Speaker 1: this because this firsthand experience. You know, they've actually said so,

2081
02:03:16,440 --> 02:03:18,000
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they weren't just being nice to me.

2082
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:21,960
Speaker 1: Well perhaps they were, but it's it's just kind of

2083
02:03:22,040 --> 02:03:24,000
Speaker 1: nice to know that that you did actually make an

2084
02:03:24,040 --> 02:03:27,600
Speaker 1: impact on that next generation of musicians, even though they

2085
02:03:27,640 --> 02:03:31,080
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly admit publicly to liking Genesis or jeth Hotel

2086
02:03:31,160 --> 02:03:33,600
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, but secretly they did. We

2087
02:03:33,680 --> 02:03:36,800
Speaker 1: were part of their learning process, part of their background,

2088
02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:39,920
Speaker 1: their points of reference musically, and even though what they

2089
02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:43,160
Speaker 1: do was musically very different, it was still informed in

2090
02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:45,920
Speaker 1: some way by the music that had gone before. And

2091
02:03:46,080 --> 02:03:49,160
Speaker 1: I think Johnny Rotten saw in the song Aqualung and

2092
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:51,640
Speaker 1: saw in the album cover of that he saw a

2093
02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:58,280
Speaker 1: persona a character that was angry and yet sensitive and fearful,

2094
02:03:58,400 --> 02:04:01,720
Speaker 1: you know, the way was depicted on the Aqualong album cover.

2095
02:04:01,840 --> 02:04:04,360
Speaker 1: And then that's Johnny Rotten. That's that's how he appeared

2096
02:04:04,360 --> 02:04:06,480
Speaker 1: when he first appeared on TV. That's going a hunched

2097
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:08,880
Speaker 1: guy with sort of the same kind of pose and

2098
02:04:09,040 --> 02:04:11,720
Speaker 1: and and he's a mixture of aggression and anger and

2099
02:04:11,880 --> 02:04:15,520
Speaker 1: yet fear and vulnerability. I think he captured that in

2100
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:20,240
Speaker 1: in his stage persona. Um, maybe I'm being a little

2101
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:22,680
Speaker 1: fanciful in that, but he certainly told me he was

2102
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:25,600
Speaker 1: a huge fan of that track. He also hit Wore

2103
02:04:25,680 --> 02:04:29,400
Speaker 1: the Long Coat. Okay. Many Jethroad Toll albums have been

2104
02:04:29,520 --> 02:04:35,480
Speaker 1: remixed by Stephen Wilson, generally speaking on against remixing, but

2105
02:04:35,640 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 1: he has a unique way of doing it without putting

2106
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:40,240
Speaker 1: down the other people who have attempted the same thing

2107
02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:43,280
Speaker 1: with the Beatles and other acts. He seems just a

2108
02:04:43,800 --> 02:04:47,280
Speaker 1: scrape away that his Tritus the Steel Wool, and it

2109
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 1: sounds exactly like the original but better. So how did

2110
02:04:51,360 --> 02:04:54,720
Speaker 1: you get involved with him remixing your records? How do

2111
02:04:54,800 --> 02:04:58,560
Speaker 1: you feel about all that? He told me that you

2112
02:04:58,640 --> 02:05:01,520
Speaker 1: wanted to fix some mistake from the past, and he said, no,

2113
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 1: this is for fans, and this is how the fans

2114
02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:08,280
Speaker 1: remember it, so you can he tell me the experience there? Yeah,

2115
02:05:08,320 --> 02:05:10,600
Speaker 1: that that that is. That is how Stephen feels about it,

2116
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 1: and I, you know, I told him to remix that

2117
02:05:13,280 --> 02:05:16,320
Speaker 1: coolong and five point once around sound and put the

2118
02:05:16,360 --> 02:05:20,120
Speaker 1: saxophone in another room. I said, just leave out the saxophone,

2119
02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:23,880
Speaker 1: which he said, now we can't do that. We've gotta

2120
02:05:23,880 --> 02:05:25,600
Speaker 1: we've got to keep everything there and the way it was,

2121
02:05:25,720 --> 02:05:28,760
Speaker 1: but we'll just make it a little more transparent because

2122
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:30,880
Speaker 1: it was too dense that album. It's just too much

2123
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:33,080
Speaker 1: going on all the time. But you know, the whole

2124
02:05:33,120 --> 02:05:35,520
Speaker 1: point about when I was asked by the record company,

2125
02:05:35,680 --> 02:05:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, about doing remixes, and I somewhere, I think

2126
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:43,800
Speaker 1: I'd heard that Steven Wilson had remixed that classic first

2127
02:05:44,640 --> 02:05:50,920
Speaker 1: King Crimson album. So and having believe that that Robert

2128
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:53,200
Speaker 1: Fripp was quite a kind of a control freak, hands

2129
02:05:53,280 --> 02:05:55,160
Speaker 1: on guy, I thought, well, if he lets Stephen Wilson

2130
02:05:55,360 --> 02:05:59,600
Speaker 1: remixes the big album, then you know he must be

2131
02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:02,360
Speaker 1: all right it. So I've suggested Steven Wilson to the

2132
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:05,840
Speaker 1: record company I think at that point still Warners, and

2133
02:06:07,600 --> 02:06:09,240
Speaker 1: I think that Coolong they wanted to do. And so

2134
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:10,920
Speaker 1: I said, we'll send him a couple of tracks and

2135
02:06:11,040 --> 02:06:14,760
Speaker 1: see how he gets on. And he and I communicated,

2136
02:06:14,760 --> 02:06:18,840
Speaker 1: and and so Stephen sent me a couple of you know,

2137
02:06:19,000 --> 02:06:22,680
Speaker 1: rough mixes having got the digital masters, you know, because

2138
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:28,440
Speaker 1: obviously was transferred from the track analog tape to twenty

2139
02:06:28,480 --> 02:06:31,320
Speaker 1: four bit audio, and then in that process you can

2140
02:06:31,400 --> 02:06:34,720
Speaker 1: then tackle it in a different way. You can clean

2141
02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:36,440
Speaker 1: up all the tracks. You can get rid of those

2142
02:06:36,480 --> 02:06:40,160
Speaker 1: little clicks and hisses and hums, you can you can

2143
02:06:40,280 --> 02:06:46,400
Speaker 1: delete the extraneous noise between lines of vocal or verse

2144
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:51,440
Speaker 1: and choruses. You can have absolute digital silence, and so

2145
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:54,320
Speaker 1: suddenly the music is much more transparent, you know, you

2146
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:58,480
Speaker 1: don't have all that sort of general kind of analog

2147
02:06:58,920 --> 02:07:01,520
Speaker 1: mulchi kind of back grounds. Suddenly it's it's you can

2148
02:07:01,560 --> 02:07:04,560
Speaker 1: see through the clouds, you know, it's it's it's daylight.

2149
02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:08,760
Speaker 1: And I think that's what Stephen has always done well,

2150
02:07:09,000 --> 02:07:13,160
Speaker 1: that he cleans everything up and then he he analyzes

2151
02:07:13,240 --> 02:07:17,320
Speaker 1: the way the original mixes were done and sets out

2152
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:20,960
Speaker 1: not to replicate it, but to generally speaking, have the

2153
02:07:21,080 --> 02:07:27,600
Speaker 1: same stereo field in terms of positioning instruments and gives

2154
02:07:27,680 --> 02:07:32,880
Speaker 1: them the same dynamic um kind of place. But you know,

2155
02:07:32,960 --> 02:07:35,440
Speaker 1: he fine tunes everything to a degree that I think

2156
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:41,120
Speaker 1: makes the music ultimately it is clearer punchier, more transparent,

2157
02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:45,840
Speaker 1: and in some ways, you know, here's a bit of

2158
02:07:45,920 --> 02:07:47,920
Speaker 1: a trade off because you're dealing with analog tapes that

2159
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:53,360
Speaker 1: are fifty years old and they can only probably they

2160
02:07:53,440 --> 02:07:55,760
Speaker 1: get baked in an oven, so that glues the oxide

2161
02:07:55,800 --> 02:07:59,400
Speaker 1: onto the backing for one more pass, which is your

2162
02:07:59,440 --> 02:08:03,280
Speaker 1: one and only chance really to to lift off that

2163
02:08:03,400 --> 02:08:08,560
Speaker 1: audience transfer it to the digital domain. But you know,

2164
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:10,879
Speaker 1: sometimes the tape has lost a little bit of quality

2165
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:13,160
Speaker 1: it's at very often the high end seems to suffer,

2166
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:17,280
Speaker 1: certainly with certain tape batches that came. I think the

2167
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:20,080
Speaker 1: A album suffered very badly from loss of oxide, and

2168
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:23,280
Speaker 1: it was quite a tough one to try and recapture

2169
02:08:23,320 --> 02:08:27,560
Speaker 1: the high end on that album. But to an extent,

2170
02:08:27,680 --> 02:08:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, you it's a bit of a trade off there.

2171
02:08:29,440 --> 02:08:32,040
Speaker 1: But by and large the balance lies in favor of

2172
02:08:32,560 --> 02:08:34,840
Speaker 1: being able to clean things up, tidy things up, give

2173
02:08:34,840 --> 02:08:37,120
Speaker 1: it a bit more punch, a bit more transparency, and

2174
02:08:37,640 --> 02:08:41,360
Speaker 1: and not radically change the balance of instruments or the

2175
02:08:41,880 --> 02:08:45,560
Speaker 1: or the stereo fields positioning of instruments. But then, of course,

2176
02:08:45,960 --> 02:08:49,480
Speaker 1: part of the remixing process isn't just recreating a stereo mix.

2177
02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:54,080
Speaker 1: It's a it's five point one surround, and and in

2178
02:08:54,160 --> 02:08:56,520
Speaker 1: that regard I'm more than happy to hand over the

2179
02:08:56,560 --> 02:08:58,560
Speaker 1: reins because I do not have a five point one

2180
02:08:58,640 --> 02:09:01,160
Speaker 1: surround system. I'd actual you don't own a record player.

2181
02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:03,840
Speaker 1: I used to have a CD player, but Apple stopped

2182
02:09:03,840 --> 02:09:06,640
Speaker 1: putting CD players in the desktop computer, so I don't

2183
02:09:06,640 --> 02:09:09,320
Speaker 1: even have one of those anymore. So I'm being used

2184
02:09:09,360 --> 02:09:13,040
Speaker 1: to listening for twenty odd years now. I mean, I

2185
02:09:13,120 --> 02:09:16,120
Speaker 1: only listen to music as digital audio files. But then

2186
02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:18,160
Speaker 1: for the most part, I'm listening to twenty four bit

2187
02:09:18,680 --> 02:09:23,480
Speaker 1: digital audio files, which are great quality. Um that's the

2188
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:27,280
Speaker 1: medium in which I work as a writer, as a producer,

2189
02:09:27,360 --> 02:09:31,280
Speaker 1: as a recording engineer, and when I'm recording for other

2190
02:09:31,360 --> 02:09:34,040
Speaker 1: people as a guest. You know, I'm always used to

2191
02:09:34,160 --> 02:09:37,880
Speaker 1: hearing and hearing good quality music, but I don't. I

2192
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:41,720
Speaker 1: don't as a music listener. I'm not really a music

2193
02:09:41,840 --> 02:09:45,360
Speaker 1: fan or a geek. You know, the idea of the

2194
02:09:45,480 --> 02:09:49,120
Speaker 1: Japanese tea ceremony of music listening by you know, gently

2195
02:09:49,160 --> 02:09:51,600
Speaker 1: blowing the dust off your vinyl record and setting it

2196
02:09:51,680 --> 02:09:54,320
Speaker 1: all up and putting it on the turntable and gently

2197
02:09:54,400 --> 02:09:56,320
Speaker 1: dropping the needle on in the right place. So you

2198
02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:58,960
Speaker 1: don't damage anything or make horrible noises, and then sitting

2199
02:09:59,000 --> 02:10:01,960
Speaker 1: back and listening to an entire album. It's a great

2200
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:05,280
Speaker 1: thing to do, but it's it is, it's slowing everything down.

2201
02:10:05,360 --> 02:10:08,320
Speaker 1: It's just stepping back. And that's why I say the

2202
02:10:08,440 --> 02:10:13,600
Speaker 1: Japanese tea ceremonies are very formal and and stayed way

2203
02:10:13,680 --> 02:10:16,200
Speaker 1: of listening to music. And perhaps that's the way people

2204
02:10:16,280 --> 02:10:18,760
Speaker 1: did it in the sixties and seventies and they're doing

2205
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:22,480
Speaker 1: it again today, and good luck to them. But frankly speaking,

2206
02:10:22,560 --> 02:10:25,600
Speaker 1: I if I have a record player, I don't know

2207
02:10:25,680 --> 02:10:27,520
Speaker 1: where it is. I know I did have one or

2208
02:10:27,560 --> 02:10:31,640
Speaker 1: two because I don't remember selling them, but um, you know,

2209
02:10:31,680 --> 02:10:33,360
Speaker 1: it's the sort of thing I just don't really feel

2210
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:41,400
Speaker 1: inclined to to acquire, um technical stuff, you know, gadgets

2211
02:10:41,480 --> 02:10:44,960
Speaker 1: and things. I've surrounded by these for all of my

2212
02:10:45,160 --> 02:10:49,160
Speaker 1: life and I still am today surrounded by gadgets. But

2213
02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm an acoustic guy. I like to pick up and

2214
02:10:51,880 --> 02:10:55,760
Speaker 1: play acoustic instruments and you know, and have a good microphone,

2215
02:10:56,320 --> 02:10:59,120
Speaker 1: and yes, I use all the technology when it comes

2216
02:10:59,160 --> 02:11:01,640
Speaker 1: to recording and mixt thing, but it's not stuff that

2217
02:11:01,720 --> 02:11:05,120
Speaker 1: I enjoy. It's just tools of the trade. You know,

2218
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:07,720
Speaker 1: it's just a means to an end, whereas I can

2219
02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:10,760
Speaker 1: get quite attached to a good microphone or get attached

2220
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:13,440
Speaker 1: to a nice musical instrument, but the rest of the

2221
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:16,720
Speaker 1: ganger tree means little to me. It's um here today,

2222
02:11:16,800 --> 02:11:21,080
Speaker 1: gone tomorrow. It's it's it's all. It's all as good

2223
02:11:21,120 --> 02:11:25,120
Speaker 1: as the next update you know to your software. Okay,

2224
02:11:25,200 --> 02:11:29,120
Speaker 1: stay with software. That's a very modern viewpoint which a

2225
02:11:29,200 --> 02:11:32,800
Speaker 1: lot of older artists do not embrace, and they bitch

2226
02:11:32,880 --> 02:11:35,520
Speaker 1: about today's system. What do we know? No matter who

2227
02:11:35,680 --> 02:11:39,360
Speaker 1: you are, it's different from the pre internet era. Very

2228
02:11:39,600 --> 02:11:44,280
Speaker 1: hard to reach people. Okay, maybe the usual suspects will

2229
02:11:44,320 --> 02:11:47,160
Speaker 1: come to see you live, but to get your new

2230
02:11:47,320 --> 02:11:51,320
Speaker 1: music into the hands of the public, to have radio

2231
02:11:51,480 --> 02:11:56,160
Speaker 1: and other exposure outlets play it, it's difficult for absolutely

2232
02:11:56,240 --> 02:12:01,600
Speaker 1: everybody new and classic acts. So you have a new

2233
02:12:01,720 --> 02:12:06,920
Speaker 1: album coming out imminently, what was the motivation to do it?

2234
02:12:07,920 --> 02:12:10,320
Speaker 1: Also knowing that it's harder than ever for people to

2235
02:12:10,400 --> 02:12:12,600
Speaker 1: hear it. Many people don't record at all. Who are

2236
02:12:12,720 --> 02:12:16,160
Speaker 1: your vintage and how did it suddenly become Jethro Toll

2237
02:12:16,200 --> 02:12:20,440
Speaker 1: again as opposed to Ianni Anderson, Well, i've I mean,

2238
02:12:20,480 --> 02:12:21,960
Speaker 1: people have found up saying, oh, it's the first new

2239
02:12:22,040 --> 02:12:24,360
Speaker 1: jethro Tel album in twenty years, but it's not. It's

2240
02:12:24,400 --> 02:12:28,520
Speaker 1: actually nineteen. And secondly, there's been quite a few record

2241
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:30,440
Speaker 1: releases in that period of time, you know. In two

2242
02:12:30,480 --> 02:12:32,800
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven, I started work on a new project

2243
02:12:32,840 --> 02:12:34,600
Speaker 1: which turned out to be as thick as a Break too,

2244
02:12:35,160 --> 02:12:37,560
Speaker 1: although I released it under my own name at that point.

2245
02:12:37,680 --> 02:12:41,720
Speaker 1: And and then two years later there was Homoerraticus, again

2246
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:44,960
Speaker 1: released under my own name, but in retrospect probably that

2247
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:47,240
Speaker 1: should have been released as a jet Hotel album because

2248
02:12:47,280 --> 02:12:49,520
Speaker 1: it was the same bunch of guys who are on

2249
02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:52,560
Speaker 1: the Zelo Gene and have been playing with me for

2250
02:12:53,120 --> 02:12:56,880
Speaker 1: an average of about fifteen years, the longest lineup of

2251
02:12:56,960 --> 02:13:01,880
Speaker 1: jeth Hotel ever. And and then of course the String

2252
02:13:01,960 --> 02:13:05,920
Speaker 1: Quartets album, which once again got to number one in

2253
02:13:06,000 --> 02:13:09,800
Speaker 1: the Billboard charts of some obscure category classical crossover or

2254
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:13,760
Speaker 1: whatever it's called. And it you know, I've not been

2255
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:15,600
Speaker 1: I've not been asleep on my feet, you know. I've

2256
02:13:15,600 --> 02:13:18,960
Speaker 1: been busy working at things and obviously doing a huge

2257
02:13:19,000 --> 02:13:25,600
Speaker 1: amount of tours. But the time came in during two

2258
02:13:25,640 --> 02:13:27,720
Speaker 1: sixteen I decide I should I should make a new

2259
02:13:27,800 --> 02:13:30,240
Speaker 1: record again of two years after the previous one, And

2260
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 1: at the beginning of two thousand seventeen, I cracked on

2261
02:13:34,160 --> 02:13:36,839
Speaker 1: with the job of a new album, which I decided

2262
02:13:36,880 --> 02:13:40,200
Speaker 1: would be a Jet Hotel album. And decided I would

2263
02:13:40,240 --> 02:13:44,720
Speaker 1: write a bunch of of songs that each one would

2264
02:13:44,760 --> 02:13:47,400
Speaker 1: be about a different strong human emotion. That was the

2265
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:50,920
Speaker 1: simple underlying theme. So I wrote down a list of

2266
02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:57,200
Speaker 1: words to describe human emotions, extreme human emotions, just one

2267
02:13:57,280 --> 02:14:00,400
Speaker 1: word for each each one, and I wrote and words

2268
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:05,600
Speaker 1: like hate, vengeance, retribution, jealousy, anger, greed, and then some

2269
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:14,200
Speaker 1: nice stuff like fraternal love, spiritual love, erotic love, compassion, companionship, loyalty.

2270
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:17,080
Speaker 1: And I looked at my list of words which would

2271
02:14:17,120 --> 02:14:20,240
Speaker 1: hopefully become songs, and I thought, Wow, these are all

2272
02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:22,960
Speaker 1: words I remember reading in the Holy Bible. And so

2273
02:14:23,680 --> 02:14:27,760
Speaker 1: in a whimsical moment of fancy, I did an Internet

2274
02:14:27,840 --> 02:14:31,120
Speaker 1: search for examples of those words coming up in the Bible,

2275
02:14:31,360 --> 02:14:36,280
Speaker 1: and and perused that with you know, a mixture of

2276
02:14:36,280 --> 02:14:39,920
Speaker 1: amusement and some intellectual curiosity. Because I'm not a Bible

2277
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:44,360
Speaker 1: scholar and I am. I copied and pasted some examples

2278
02:14:44,440 --> 02:14:47,040
Speaker 1: of those just as references when it came to write songs,

2279
02:14:47,480 --> 02:14:49,280
Speaker 1: and the songs for the most part of songs about

2280
02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:51,760
Speaker 1: the real world and the present day. But I allude

2281
02:14:52,360 --> 02:14:55,920
Speaker 1: two elements of the biblical stories here and there, and

2282
02:14:56,000 --> 02:14:59,400
Speaker 1: a couple of songs more obviously than others. But that's

2283
02:14:59,440 --> 02:15:02,640
Speaker 1: the that's the that's the background to the record. And

2284
02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:06,320
Speaker 1: it began in early two thousand and seventeen and I

2285
02:15:06,480 --> 02:15:10,160
Speaker 1: we recorded seven tracks, four of which were complete by

2286
02:15:10,200 --> 02:15:12,800
Speaker 1: the end of that that that year, and the rest

2287
02:15:12,880 --> 02:15:15,160
Speaker 1: I kept telling myself, well, get on to finish the

2288
02:15:15,240 --> 02:15:16,920
Speaker 1: rest of it, but we were on tour so much

2289
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:19,880
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eighteen and two thousand and nineteen,

2290
02:15:19,920 --> 02:15:22,720
Speaker 1: and I kept putting it off, and then suddenly the

2291
02:15:22,800 --> 02:15:27,680
Speaker 1: pandemic was honest, and another another period of more than

2292
02:15:27,760 --> 02:15:30,440
Speaker 1: a year went by when we couldn't get together and work.

2293
02:15:30,520 --> 02:15:32,320
Speaker 1: We were in lockdown, not allowed to be in each

2294
02:15:32,320 --> 02:15:36,480
Speaker 1: other's company, and I understided I would do the last

2295
02:15:36,560 --> 02:15:38,760
Speaker 1: five songs which I had written back in two thousand

2296
02:15:38,760 --> 02:15:41,320
Speaker 1: and seventeen. They were all complete lyrically and musically, and

2297
02:15:42,040 --> 02:15:46,440
Speaker 1: I just went back and relearned them and recorded them

2298
02:15:46,480 --> 02:15:50,040
Speaker 1: at home as acoustic tracks, and which in a way

2299
02:15:50,080 --> 02:15:52,920
Speaker 1: it was probably a good thing because it gave the

2300
02:15:53,000 --> 02:15:55,120
Speaker 1: album rather like aqualung. It gave it a little bit

2301
02:15:55,200 --> 02:15:59,040
Speaker 1: more variety in terms of dynamics and musical style. So

2302
02:16:00,480 --> 02:16:05,040
Speaker 1: it was finally completed in and mixed and mastered in

2303
02:16:05,200 --> 02:16:08,360
Speaker 1: June of this year, and the album art was stunned,

2304
02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:11,000
Speaker 1: and I went in search of a record company who

2305
02:16:11,080 --> 02:16:14,000
Speaker 1: might be brave enough to take it on. And you know,

2306
02:16:14,120 --> 02:16:17,560
Speaker 1: we listened to the overtures of about six different record

2307
02:16:17,640 --> 02:16:21,200
Speaker 1: companies and two in particular who we went into much

2308
02:16:21,240 --> 02:16:25,640
Speaker 1: more depth with in terms of looking at the detail

2309
02:16:25,720 --> 02:16:32,360
Speaker 1: of potential deals. And I made my decision. But unfortunately,

2310
02:16:32,440 --> 02:16:36,400
Speaker 1: the the reality of today's world as we meant, meant

2311
02:16:36,440 --> 02:16:38,520
Speaker 1: we would have to wait for some time in order

2312
02:16:38,600 --> 02:16:42,280
Speaker 1: to get vinyl pressed, because it's the waiting time to

2313
02:16:42,320 --> 02:16:45,640
Speaker 1: get with vinyl pressed from scratches somewhere. Some people will

2314
02:16:45,720 --> 02:16:48,480
Speaker 1: say eight nine months, other people saying more than a year.

2315
02:16:49,520 --> 02:16:51,600
Speaker 1: That's the queue to be in if you want to

2316
02:16:51,680 --> 02:16:55,040
Speaker 1: get your new record pressed as a vinyl product. But

2317
02:16:55,560 --> 02:17:01,120
Speaker 1: I've already um jumped the gun a bit by by

2318
02:17:01,560 --> 02:17:04,520
Speaker 1: scheduling a release in the end of March two twenty

2319
02:17:04,600 --> 02:17:07,040
Speaker 1: three for the next album, So we're already in the

2320
02:17:07,120 --> 02:17:12,080
Speaker 1: queue for having that one pressed in time. But it's

2321
02:17:12,120 --> 02:17:14,480
Speaker 1: been frustrating, to say the least, having to wait from

2322
02:17:15,360 --> 02:17:17,440
Speaker 1: May June when I've sort of done the work, and

2323
02:17:17,520 --> 02:17:20,279
Speaker 1: then thinking it's not going to be out until January.

2324
02:17:20,959 --> 02:17:25,120
Speaker 1: It seems like another another long period of sitting on

2325
02:17:25,240 --> 02:17:28,160
Speaker 1: my hands and then having to be re energized to

2326
02:17:28,240 --> 02:17:31,160
Speaker 1: do all the press and promo, to try and um

2327
02:17:32,200 --> 02:17:36,199
Speaker 1: make its presence felt amongst that small but argent body

2328
02:17:36,280 --> 02:17:39,040
Speaker 1: of fans and perhaps introduced it to who people who

2329
02:17:39,080 --> 02:17:41,600
Speaker 1: have perhaps not too aware of Jeter Hotel, but might

2330
02:17:41,720 --> 02:17:45,920
Speaker 1: hear about it in what remains of the music media.

2331
02:17:46,680 --> 02:17:49,000
Speaker 1: You're heavily active. If you talk about being on the

2332
02:17:49,080 --> 02:17:51,640
Speaker 1: road so much that you can't finish the record, you

2333
02:17:51,720 --> 02:17:56,640
Speaker 1: talk about scheduling a record in what is the motivation? Now?

2334
02:17:56,760 --> 02:17:58,680
Speaker 1: There are a lot of acts they literally have to

2335
02:17:58,760 --> 02:18:02,119
Speaker 1: work to pay the bills. You've had much more success

2336
02:18:02,200 --> 02:18:04,960
Speaker 1: than many of those people. You're a smart guy. You

2337
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:09,320
Speaker 1: own your own publishing. To what degree is money motivation?

2338
02:18:09,520 --> 02:18:12,000
Speaker 1: Some people they do the live gig because they just

2339
02:18:12,080 --> 02:18:15,800
Speaker 1: cannot get that response anywhere else in life. That feedback

2340
02:18:15,840 --> 02:18:19,480
Speaker 1: from the audience. So what keeps you still working on

2341
02:18:19,600 --> 02:18:23,000
Speaker 1: the road and still making new records. Well, part of

2342
02:18:23,080 --> 02:18:27,120
Speaker 1: it is just that that kind of creative urge that

2343
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:30,720
Speaker 1: you seem to have been born with and as a child,

2344
02:18:30,879 --> 02:18:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, I can remember doing things. I was always

2345
02:18:32,640 --> 02:18:36,520
Speaker 1: happy in my own company, playing alone, writing, reading, drawing,

2346
02:18:36,640 --> 02:18:40,680
Speaker 1: and I mean that thing. I've always felt that creative urge.

2347
02:18:40,760 --> 02:18:42,760
Speaker 1: And I don't feel the need to be with other

2348
02:18:42,840 --> 02:18:47,680
Speaker 1: people necessarily to you know, for socializing, as I have

2349
02:18:47,840 --> 02:18:51,320
Speaker 1: too much had too much older brothers, but I grew

2350
02:18:51,440 --> 02:18:53,840
Speaker 1: up because they had left home. I was grew up

2351
02:18:53,879 --> 02:18:55,720
Speaker 1: more or less as an only child, and I wasn't

2352
02:18:56,480 --> 02:18:59,880
Speaker 1: particularly sociable at school, so I had plenty times to

2353
02:19:00,000 --> 02:19:04,000
Speaker 1: try and develop that sort of creative side of my personality.

2354
02:19:04,800 --> 02:19:08,039
Speaker 1: And I think that that never goes away. It's always

2355
02:19:08,080 --> 02:19:12,080
Speaker 1: becomes a little quietly burning thing in the back of

2356
02:19:12,160 --> 02:19:14,320
Speaker 1: your mind whatever else you're doing. And when it comes

2357
02:19:14,360 --> 02:19:17,280
Speaker 1: to making a new record, you're also I could say

2358
02:19:17,360 --> 02:19:21,360
Speaker 1: you we I am driven by another consideration, which is

2359
02:19:21,480 --> 02:19:26,199
Speaker 1: that time is running out. You know, the the sands

2360
02:19:26,280 --> 02:19:29,320
Speaker 1: of time are trickling through there in a very evident

2361
02:19:29,440 --> 02:19:32,000
Speaker 1: and seemingly ever increasing way. And I was bigger. If

2362
02:19:32,040 --> 02:19:34,600
Speaker 1: I don't do this now, it just could be too late.

2363
02:19:34,959 --> 02:19:38,760
Speaker 1: That applies to touring as well as making records. So

2364
02:19:38,800 --> 02:19:40,320
Speaker 1: I just want to crack on and do things that

2365
02:19:40,400 --> 02:19:42,320
Speaker 1: I haven't done yet. And as long as I feel

2366
02:19:42,400 --> 02:19:46,840
Speaker 1: that the that the creative juicies are flowing and the

2367
02:19:46,959 --> 02:19:49,280
Speaker 1: end result isn't too embarrassing, that I'm going to carry

2368
02:19:49,360 --> 02:19:52,560
Speaker 1: on doing it. And that's very evident in live touring

2369
02:19:52,640 --> 02:19:55,880
Speaker 1: because of course the pandemic, the eighteen months that we

2370
02:19:55,920 --> 02:19:59,720
Speaker 1: went through with not a single concert um that was

2371
02:19:59,800 --> 02:20:02,240
Speaker 1: a of a heavy toll, particularly for the band. Guys.

2372
02:20:02,400 --> 02:20:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't need to work, you know, I've got investments

2373
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:08,160
Speaker 1: and money stashed. I'm you know, I'm fine. I don't

2374
02:20:08,160 --> 02:20:11,040
Speaker 1: need to work again. But they do. And so my

2375
02:20:11,160 --> 02:20:14,840
Speaker 1: band and crew, you know, they had a real tough

2376
02:20:14,920 --> 02:20:17,440
Speaker 1: eighteen months, was still having a tough time now because

2377
02:20:17,520 --> 02:20:20,400
Speaker 1: although we did twenty shows in the latter part of

2378
02:20:20,520 --> 02:20:24,360
Speaker 1: last year, and no we're near enough to recoup their

2379
02:20:25,040 --> 02:20:27,320
Speaker 1: lots of earnings in the in the previous year and

2380
02:20:27,400 --> 02:20:30,080
Speaker 1: a half. So you know, we we are. We're all

2381
02:20:30,240 --> 02:20:31,960
Speaker 1: I think a little obsessed by having to crack on

2382
02:20:32,080 --> 02:20:34,039
Speaker 1: with it and make up for lost time, and particularly

2383
02:20:34,080 --> 02:20:40,320
Speaker 1: older people like me, older artists. Um, if some some

2384
02:20:40,480 --> 02:20:42,000
Speaker 1: of us may have made the time may have come

2385
02:20:42,080 --> 02:20:44,840
Speaker 1: and gone, it's too late, you know, the narrow window

2386
02:20:44,879 --> 02:20:51,359
Speaker 1: opportunity unfortunately closed before some artists could re energize themselves

2387
02:20:51,400 --> 02:20:53,240
Speaker 1: and get back on the road. Is the time has

2388
02:20:53,280 --> 02:20:55,520
Speaker 1: gone by for some people. But for those of us

2389
02:20:55,520 --> 02:21:00,960
Speaker 1: who are in reasonable health and mentally um equipped to

2390
02:21:01,280 --> 02:21:06,800
Speaker 1: take on the you know, the stress and the mental

2391
02:21:06,879 --> 02:21:10,520
Speaker 1: reality of what touring and performing us about. Then, you know,

2392
02:21:10,520 --> 02:21:13,960
Speaker 1: I think we're all struck by the the inevitability. If

2393
02:21:14,000 --> 02:21:18,039
Speaker 1: we don't do it now, there might not be another chance.

2394
02:21:18,879 --> 02:21:21,560
Speaker 1: A year or two or five years from now, it

2395
02:21:21,680 --> 02:21:26,119
Speaker 1: could be over. So I think that's a profound driving force.

2396
02:21:26,280 --> 02:21:29,680
Speaker 1: However desperate it sounds. There is a degree of desperation

2397
02:21:29,800 --> 02:21:32,120
Speaker 1: about it, but there's nothing wrong with that. You know.

2398
02:21:32,480 --> 02:21:34,240
Speaker 1: Some people are just desperate to have a good time

2399
02:21:34,360 --> 02:21:36,760
Speaker 1: and go and party with their friends down at the nightclub.

2400
02:21:36,840 --> 02:21:38,360
Speaker 1: And I'm desperate to get on the road and do

2401
02:21:38,480 --> 02:21:41,560
Speaker 1: some concerts and and carry on with the record that

2402
02:21:41,600 --> 02:21:47,800
Speaker 1: I began twelve days ago. It's twelve diggers, yeah, thirteen

2403
02:21:47,879 --> 02:21:51,160
Speaker 1: days ago. On the January, the Onet as I've done

2404
02:21:51,200 --> 02:21:53,200
Speaker 1: with the last three or four records. January the first

2405
02:21:53,360 --> 02:21:56,040
Speaker 1: nine AM, I told everybody that's when I'm starting the

2406
02:21:56,080 --> 02:22:00,760
Speaker 1: new project, and I did, and so I'm I'm now

2407
02:22:02,400 --> 02:22:07,560
Speaker 1: thirteen days into that, almost two weeks, slightly hampered by

2408
02:22:07,600 --> 02:22:09,600
Speaker 1: the fact that I've been spending many hours a day

2409
02:22:09,640 --> 02:22:12,440
Speaker 1: doing press and promo, but even today I managed to

2410
02:22:12,440 --> 02:22:17,040
Speaker 1: slip a couple of hours in working up some refinements

2411
02:22:17,040 --> 02:22:20,360
Speaker 1: on a couple of song ideas, and I am you know,

2412
02:22:20,400 --> 02:22:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm now in a position where I can be pretty

2413
02:22:23,520 --> 02:22:25,640
Speaker 1: confident by the end of this month, I'm going to

2414
02:22:25,720 --> 02:22:28,280
Speaker 1: be making some demos to send to the guys, to

2415
02:22:28,360 --> 02:22:31,400
Speaker 1: the band, in the band, and hopefully in the the

2416
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:36,280
Speaker 1: periods that we have ahead of us, when although I

2417
02:22:36,320 --> 02:22:38,480
Speaker 1: hope we're on the road doing concert tours, we may

2418
02:22:38,560 --> 02:22:41,560
Speaker 1: end up still ending up rescheduling yet again, and so

2419
02:22:41,720 --> 02:22:45,000
Speaker 1: we may have time to start recording earlier than I

2420
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:48,560
Speaker 1: might have otherwise. But you know where, there's another record

2421
02:22:48,600 --> 02:22:51,760
Speaker 1: in there for sure, and I know what it's called.

2422
02:22:52,360 --> 02:22:55,240
Speaker 1: I have twelve pieces of music. I've written the first

2423
02:22:55,360 --> 02:22:58,320
Speaker 1: draft of all the lyrics, and no, I'm not going

2424
02:22:58,360 --> 02:23:01,920
Speaker 1: to tell anybody you or even my family or anybody.

2425
02:23:01,959 --> 02:23:04,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to breathe a word about what what

2426
02:23:04,120 --> 02:23:06,920
Speaker 1: the record is and what it's about. And it's it's

2427
02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:09,320
Speaker 1: too precarious, you know, because I always reserve the right

2428
02:23:09,400 --> 02:23:12,520
Speaker 1: to change my mind, you know, scrap it if necessary,

2429
02:23:12,600 --> 02:23:15,000
Speaker 1: and start again. But you know, it's to me, it's

2430
02:23:15,040 --> 02:23:17,440
Speaker 1: like bad luck to tell people too much about what

2431
02:23:17,600 --> 02:23:20,360
Speaker 1: you're doing. I couldn't agree more soon as I tell people,

2432
02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:23,760
Speaker 1: then suddenly I can't do it now. You've also had

2433
02:23:23,840 --> 02:23:27,520
Speaker 1: adventures in salmon farming. How did that come about and

2434
02:23:27,600 --> 02:23:30,560
Speaker 1: how extensive was that? Well, I've been a musician for

2435
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:33,240
Speaker 1: quite a bit of my life and I thought I

2436
02:23:33,320 --> 02:23:36,080
Speaker 1: did okay but doing that. But a little part of me,

2437
02:23:37,400 --> 02:23:41,600
Speaker 1: I suppose it's um, you know, there's it's just that

2438
02:23:41,640 --> 02:23:44,400
Speaker 1: it's just that feeling maybe that you you can turn

2439
02:23:44,480 --> 02:23:46,560
Speaker 1: your hand to something else, and you don't want to

2440
02:23:46,600 --> 02:23:49,600
Speaker 1: be too one dimensional in your in your life. So

2441
02:23:49,720 --> 02:23:51,720
Speaker 1: I thought, there's probably a couple of other things that

2442
02:23:51,760 --> 02:23:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm interested in doing, and maybe I should give them

2443
02:23:54,120 --> 02:23:56,840
Speaker 1: a go. And I we we we got involved in

2444
02:23:56,959 --> 02:24:02,080
Speaker 1: farming back in the late seventies, but that was you know,

2445
02:24:02,320 --> 02:24:05,959
Speaker 1: sheep and cattle and wheat and barley and oilseed, rape

2446
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:10,800
Speaker 1: and stuff a bit bit bit bit ordinary, but I

2447
02:24:11,000 --> 02:24:13,959
Speaker 1: was bitten by the bug of aquaculture. I read about

2448
02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:17,879
Speaker 1: it actually in an airline magazine. I read an article

2449
02:24:17,920 --> 02:24:20,840
Speaker 1: about fish farm in this growing new industry, and I

2450
02:24:21,160 --> 02:24:23,840
Speaker 1: got quite interested in that idea. And I spent about

2451
02:24:23,840 --> 02:24:31,040
Speaker 1: a year trying to find um some potential um sites

2452
02:24:31,120 --> 02:24:33,480
Speaker 1: for marine aquo culture, which I was able to do

2453
02:24:33,680 --> 02:24:37,400
Speaker 1: and got it. Literally put notched a toe, but the

2454
02:24:37,440 --> 02:24:40,039
Speaker 1: whole of a both feet into the into the water

2455
02:24:41,000 --> 02:24:43,800
Speaker 1: to get going on that, and it was an interesting

2456
02:24:43,879 --> 02:24:47,560
Speaker 1: parallel career for twenty years to come, and during which

2457
02:24:47,560 --> 02:24:52,480
Speaker 1: period of time we my companies. You know, we're one

2458
02:24:52,520 --> 02:24:55,320
Speaker 1: of the major producers of smoked salmon, but unlike all

2459
02:24:55,360 --> 02:24:59,879
Speaker 1: the other companies, I was producing the broodstock, the egg,

2460
02:25:00,440 --> 02:25:03,520
Speaker 1: the hatchery, the fresh water part of salmon growth, the

2461
02:25:03,640 --> 02:25:09,080
Speaker 1: marine on growing of the fish, harvesting, processing, primary processing,

2462
02:25:09,360 --> 02:25:13,600
Speaker 1: and then and then finally the secondary processing and for

2463
02:25:13,680 --> 02:25:16,040
Speaker 1: the most part smoked salmon which was going to some

2464
02:25:16,160 --> 02:25:19,600
Speaker 1: of the premier outlets in the UK and elsewhere in Europe.

2465
02:25:19,640 --> 02:25:22,160
Speaker 1: And so we weren't the biggest company, but we were

2466
02:25:22,200 --> 02:25:24,920
Speaker 1: the only company doing the whole thing you know, from

2467
02:25:25,360 --> 02:25:27,240
Speaker 1: brood stock and eggs right the way through to the

2468
02:25:27,280 --> 02:25:32,400
Speaker 1: finished product on the supermarket shells. And so there was

2469
02:25:32,480 --> 02:25:36,560
Speaker 1: quite a quite a an interesting time learning about a

2470
02:25:36,640 --> 02:25:41,120
Speaker 1: whole new kind of form of business and a mixture

2471
02:25:41,200 --> 02:25:46,960
Speaker 1: of business and science and biology. But of course it

2472
02:25:47,120 --> 02:25:53,359
Speaker 1: had a an unfortunate consequence in terms of its impact

2473
02:25:53,440 --> 02:25:56,360
Speaker 1: upon the marine environment, the sourcing of feed for salmon

2474
02:25:57,240 --> 02:26:02,840
Speaker 1: and and inevitably the use of of chemicals to to

2475
02:26:03,080 --> 02:26:06,480
Speaker 1: protect the fish from an antibiotics to present the fish

2476
02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:10,160
Speaker 1: from disease. And and we were very much in the

2477
02:26:10,240 --> 02:26:13,760
Speaker 1: spearhead spearheading of of trying to find the way to

2478
02:26:13,840 --> 02:26:17,120
Speaker 1: do that and not be impactful on the environment and

2479
02:26:17,240 --> 02:26:21,560
Speaker 1: not be overly reliant on on the artificial side of

2480
02:26:21,680 --> 02:26:24,560
Speaker 1: intensive farming. So we were, you know, we we were

2481
02:26:24,640 --> 02:26:26,520
Speaker 1: quite active. I mean, I was quite engaged with people

2482
02:26:26,560 --> 02:26:28,440
Speaker 1: like green Peace and Friends of the Earth, trying to

2483
02:26:29,080 --> 02:26:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, show them what it was we were doing,

2484
02:26:30,680 --> 02:26:33,240
Speaker 1: and trying and explain that this wasn't you know, it

2485
02:26:33,320 --> 02:26:35,640
Speaker 1: wasn't a perfect industry. But we weren't as bad as

2486
02:26:35,720 --> 02:26:37,760
Speaker 1: we were being made out to be in some quarters.

2487
02:26:38,760 --> 02:26:41,000
Speaker 1: But in the end, the inevitability caught up with me

2488
02:26:41,120 --> 02:26:44,760
Speaker 1: in the in the new millennium, I decided that I

2489
02:26:45,120 --> 02:26:47,440
Speaker 1: really there were a couple of things that I was

2490
02:26:47,560 --> 02:26:53,080
Speaker 1: finding uncomfortable about intensive aquaculture, and I decided it was

2491
02:26:53,200 --> 02:26:55,560
Speaker 1: time to call it a day. So I sold off

2492
02:26:55,840 --> 02:27:00,840
Speaker 1: various arms of the business to different companies and turned

2493
02:27:00,879 --> 02:27:04,320
Speaker 1: my back on aquaculture forever. But you know, twenty years

2494
02:27:04,400 --> 02:27:08,760
Speaker 1: of I wouldn't say enjoyment, And somebody was a bit

2495
02:27:08,800 --> 02:27:10,760
Speaker 1: scary because it was you know, I was I was

2496
02:27:10,879 --> 02:27:14,080
Speaker 1: the investor, the sole shareholder. I was taking all the

2497
02:27:14,200 --> 02:27:17,320
Speaker 1: risks and something was very, very risky to do UM.

2498
02:27:17,800 --> 02:27:20,200
Speaker 1: And you know, we nearly came a cropper a couple

2499
02:27:20,200 --> 02:27:24,320
Speaker 1: of times, but I managed to keep my shirt on

2500
02:27:24,480 --> 02:27:27,200
Speaker 1: and and I was able to get out of it

2501
02:27:27,280 --> 02:27:30,080
Speaker 1: without any losses, which is all I ever really wanted

2502
02:27:30,120 --> 02:27:32,640
Speaker 1: to do. I mean, all that any profits we ever made,

2503
02:27:32,680 --> 02:27:34,520
Speaker 1: I just turned it back into the company, and we've

2504
02:27:34,720 --> 02:27:36,920
Speaker 1: tried to use that for growth in the company rather

2505
02:27:37,040 --> 02:27:39,920
Speaker 1: than rather than I didn't need the income personally, so

2506
02:27:40,080 --> 02:27:43,720
Speaker 1: it was just something to UM to do for the

2507
02:27:43,800 --> 02:27:46,119
Speaker 1: sake of doing it and for the four hundred people

2508
02:27:46,200 --> 02:27:50,160
Speaker 1: that were employed on our fish farms and and processing plants.

2509
02:27:51,040 --> 02:27:53,200
Speaker 1: But anyway, been there, done that, won't be going there

2510
02:27:53,200 --> 02:27:55,440
Speaker 1: again anytime soon. I went back to being a full

2511
02:27:55,480 --> 02:27:58,400
Speaker 1: time musician because I part from anything else, you know,

2512
02:27:58,720 --> 02:28:02,480
Speaker 1: I felt I was being torn into two different directions

2513
02:28:02,520 --> 02:28:05,640
Speaker 1: all the time. With my available number of hours of

2514
02:28:06,600 --> 02:28:10,119
Speaker 1: waking energy, I thought I just should get on being

2515
02:28:10,120 --> 02:28:12,080
Speaker 1: a musician again. That's where I started and where I

2516
02:28:12,080 --> 02:28:17,280
Speaker 1: should finish. So I will look back on my years

2517
02:28:17,320 --> 02:28:21,800
Speaker 1: in aquaculture with a degree of fondness and some achievement.

2518
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:24,720
Speaker 1: But it's not, you know, it's not something I think

2519
02:28:24,800 --> 02:28:27,480
Speaker 1: I miss if I if I ever, if I ever

2520
02:28:27,560 --> 02:28:29,320
Speaker 1: thought about carrying on with it, it would have been

2521
02:28:29,360 --> 02:28:33,119
Speaker 1: in shellfish farming, which is really very very almost zero impact.

2522
02:28:33,959 --> 02:28:36,400
Speaker 1: Um I'm you know, I would have been a muscle farmer,

2523
02:28:36,480 --> 02:28:41,880
Speaker 1: perhaps an oyster farmer, scallop farmer, but um, anything that

2524
02:28:42,000 --> 02:28:48,240
Speaker 1: involves intensive feeding and intensive husbandry where you're putting a

2525
02:28:48,280 --> 02:28:50,320
Speaker 1: lot of live animals into a small space and then

2526
02:28:50,400 --> 02:28:53,800
Speaker 1: having to bash them over the head or put toxic

2527
02:28:53,879 --> 02:28:57,800
Speaker 1: carbon monoxide into a bath to kill them. And yeah,

2528
02:28:57,800 --> 02:29:00,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not I'm not a veg I am

2529
02:29:00,600 --> 02:29:04,920
Speaker 1: mostly vegetarian, and I am one of those people who

2530
02:29:05,000 --> 02:29:09,480
Speaker 1: find it more increasingly difficult to justify eating something that

2531
02:29:09,600 --> 02:29:12,280
Speaker 1: had a face on it, which is why I can

2532
02:29:12,360 --> 02:29:14,560
Speaker 1: carry on. I think I could have carried on being

2533
02:29:14,600 --> 02:29:17,240
Speaker 1: a muscle farmer, because hard as you, hard as you

2534
02:29:17,320 --> 02:29:20,520
Speaker 1: may try, you don't see a pair of eyes or

2535
02:29:20,560 --> 02:29:24,800
Speaker 1: any anguish facing you. A lobster, on the other hand,

2536
02:29:24,879 --> 02:29:27,880
Speaker 1: you do, and a squid or an octopus you certainly do.

2537
02:29:28,200 --> 02:29:31,160
Speaker 1: And so some stuff I just wouldn't want to do anymore.

2538
02:29:32,560 --> 02:29:38,440
Speaker 1: I personally killed thousands of fish, and at the time,

2539
02:29:38,760 --> 02:29:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, you got on and did it because I

2540
02:29:40,920 --> 02:29:42,760
Speaker 1: was working on the farm, you know, here and there

2541
02:29:43,360 --> 02:29:48,240
Speaker 1: in a part time capacity. And I I look back

2542
02:29:48,280 --> 02:29:52,760
Speaker 1: on the what would be seen as a rather callous

2543
02:29:52,800 --> 02:29:57,680
Speaker 1: attitude in in in just and just dispatching all these

2544
02:29:58,520 --> 02:30:03,119
Speaker 1: these beautiful creatures and turning them into what was then

2545
02:30:03,440 --> 02:30:09,440
Speaker 1: still a relatively luxury food. I couldn't have carried on

2546
02:30:09,600 --> 02:30:12,400
Speaker 1: doing that. Sound a bit of a softie. I'm I'm

2547
02:30:12,440 --> 02:30:15,480
Speaker 1: a pussycat, partly because I like pussycats, and partly because

2548
02:30:15,520 --> 02:30:21,400
Speaker 1: I I actually really don't like being involved in harming

2549
02:30:21,640 --> 02:30:26,480
Speaker 1: living creatures. That goes against my principles and my my

2550
02:30:26,600 --> 02:30:29,560
Speaker 1: spiritual beliefs. But it's not to say that I never

2551
02:30:29,640 --> 02:30:33,840
Speaker 1: eat meat or never eat fish, but I do it

2552
02:30:34,000 --> 02:30:39,240
Speaker 1: very sparingly and try to um. You know, I mean

2553
02:30:39,800 --> 02:30:43,160
Speaker 1: eating meat is you know, I would have a difficulty

2554
02:30:43,600 --> 02:30:48,600
Speaker 1: arguing for it. But it if it's if it's been

2555
02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:55,119
Speaker 1: extensively reared, not intensively, and it's been organically reared, um,

2556
02:30:56,200 --> 02:30:59,440
Speaker 1: and it's had a good a good bit of time

2557
02:30:59,720 --> 02:31:03,400
Speaker 1: just sitting out there in the fields and chewing on

2558
02:31:03,560 --> 02:31:07,440
Speaker 1: grass and filling the sun on its back and and

2559
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:11,240
Speaker 1: the wind and it's hair or its fleece or whatever

2560
02:31:11,320 --> 02:31:16,720
Speaker 1: it might be. Then I'm it's marginally easier to argue

2561
02:31:16,760 --> 02:31:19,560
Speaker 1: for it than something that's grown up on concrete and

2562
02:31:20,520 --> 02:31:25,119
Speaker 1: and never actually never actually stepped out into the open air. UM.

2563
02:31:25,360 --> 02:31:28,640
Speaker 1: So you know, I have a problem with eating chicken

2564
02:31:28,760 --> 02:31:31,360
Speaker 1: because so often, of course it's battery real chicken. And

2565
02:31:31,840 --> 02:31:35,360
Speaker 1: I know from from experience as to what that looks like.

2566
02:31:35,520 --> 02:31:39,840
Speaker 1: Because we've occasionally taken in some some chickens that have

2567
02:31:39,959 --> 02:31:44,879
Speaker 1: been unwanted by intensive chicken farms, and we've brought them

2568
02:31:45,120 --> 02:31:48,800
Speaker 1: home to to rear and have another life at home

2569
02:31:48,840 --> 02:31:51,400
Speaker 1: with us and miractus. They all started laying again and

2570
02:31:52,840 --> 02:31:55,720
Speaker 1: and and living on for another couple of years of

2571
02:31:56,080 --> 02:31:59,360
Speaker 1: a happy life being being able to go out and

2572
02:31:59,440 --> 02:32:02,199
Speaker 1: in when it eastern and wander around a big space

2573
02:32:02,920 --> 02:32:09,040
Speaker 1: suitably fenced against the the invading foxes and dogs and

2574
02:32:09,120 --> 02:32:11,400
Speaker 1: cats that might otherwise do them hard. But you know

2575
02:32:11,520 --> 02:32:13,640
Speaker 1: that I'm I'm a bit of a softy when it

2576
02:32:13,720 --> 02:32:17,760
Speaker 1: comes to animals, and um, I don't feel embarrassed to

2577
02:32:18,080 --> 02:32:20,920
Speaker 1: say that. Not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

2578
02:32:21,520 --> 02:32:24,080
Speaker 1: You have your opinion. For those who were fans of

2579
02:32:24,280 --> 02:32:28,280
Speaker 1: rock of Jeff Row Tall, they can't understand it. There

2580
02:32:28,320 --> 02:32:31,840
Speaker 1: are dozens of acts that should not be in the

2581
02:32:32,240 --> 02:32:33,960
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. If Jeff row Toll

2582
02:32:34,080 --> 02:32:37,360
Speaker 1: is not in it, what is your viewpoint of that? Well,

2583
02:32:37,440 --> 02:32:39,520
Speaker 1: I you know, I appreciate that people who are the

2584
02:32:39,560 --> 02:32:41,640
Speaker 1: best will in the world, you know, would be campaigning

2585
02:32:41,840 --> 02:32:45,840
Speaker 1: or arguing for Jeter Hotel being inducted into the Rock

2586
02:32:45,879 --> 02:32:50,960
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame. But first of all, when

2587
02:32:51,000 --> 02:32:53,200
Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame opened in Cleveland,

2588
02:32:53,240 --> 02:32:56,200
Speaker 1: I was one of the first people to, having been asked,

2589
02:32:56,240 --> 02:32:59,920
Speaker 1: I donated some memorabilia to the Rock and Roll Hall

2590
02:33:00,000 --> 02:33:02,160
Speaker 1: of Fame. So we were in there right from the right.

2591
02:33:02,200 --> 02:33:04,480
Speaker 1: From the get go. Jet Hotel was present in the

2592
02:33:04,560 --> 02:33:06,840
Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But if we mean

2593
02:33:07,160 --> 02:33:09,600
Speaker 1: being inducted into the rock and Roll Hall of Fame,

2594
02:33:09,640 --> 02:33:12,320
Speaker 1: that's a different matter. And I've always felt that the

2595
02:33:12,360 --> 02:33:14,920
Speaker 1: American Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is that peculiarly

2596
02:33:14,959 --> 02:33:20,160
Speaker 1: American institution to celebrate American music and its influence perhaps

2597
02:33:20,240 --> 02:33:26,520
Speaker 1: elsewhere in some cases, but it's about musical Americana past, present,

2598
02:33:26,680 --> 02:33:28,960
Speaker 1: and hopefully in the future. And I don't believe that

2599
02:33:29,040 --> 02:33:33,280
Speaker 1: Jester Hotel really qualifies in regard to that, compared to

2600
02:33:33,320 --> 02:33:35,320
Speaker 1: many other artists. So I think it would be a

2601
02:33:35,400 --> 02:33:37,600
Speaker 1: bit of an anomaly for Jester Hotel to be in

2602
02:33:38,920 --> 02:33:41,240
Speaker 1: inducted into the American Rock and Hall rock and Roll

2603
02:33:41,280 --> 02:33:43,800
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. Equally, there are some other bands who

2604
02:33:43,840 --> 02:33:46,280
Speaker 1: have been I also don't think really belonging there for

2605
02:33:46,480 --> 02:33:50,120
Speaker 1: similar reasons. But you know, there are there are many, many,

2606
02:33:50,320 --> 02:33:52,840
Speaker 1: many American acts who do deserve because they may not

2607
02:33:52,920 --> 02:33:57,959
Speaker 1: be very famous or necessarily have left so much behind them,

2608
02:33:58,040 --> 02:34:01,520
Speaker 1: but they are still influential, unimportant, and I don't think

2609
02:34:01,560 --> 02:34:06,480
Speaker 1: I've been given the recognition that perhaps they they deserve

2610
02:34:07,480 --> 02:34:12,400
Speaker 1: as part of that big, an evolving story of American music.

2611
02:34:13,320 --> 02:34:15,400
Speaker 1: So you know, That's how I feel about it. But

2612
02:34:15,520 --> 02:34:17,800
Speaker 1: we could go into the sort of mechanics of it,

2613
02:34:17,920 --> 02:34:22,879
Speaker 1: which is that I think the board that make these decisions.

2614
02:34:23,040 --> 02:34:24,720
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it still does, but it certainly

2615
02:34:24,760 --> 02:34:30,080
Speaker 1: did have a guy Jan Whenner, who was the editor

2616
02:34:30,120 --> 02:34:33,200
Speaker 1: of Rolling Stone, who had a particular dislike of jeth Hotel.

2617
02:34:33,240 --> 02:34:35,480
Speaker 1: And I've heard from a number of sources that you know,

2618
02:34:35,600 --> 02:34:39,680
Speaker 1: he absolutely would you hate jeth Hotel and wouldn't dream

2619
02:34:39,760 --> 02:34:45,320
Speaker 1: of of of us being in there. And that's fine,

2620
02:34:45,440 --> 02:34:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm for different reasons, I kind of agree

2621
02:34:48,080 --> 02:34:50,040
Speaker 1: with him. You know, I don't know the man at all,

2622
02:34:50,120 --> 02:34:52,840
Speaker 1: never met him, but you know, he's entitled to his opinion,

2623
02:34:52,959 --> 02:34:56,880
Speaker 1: and that may be one of the reasons that that

2624
02:34:57,680 --> 02:35:01,120
Speaker 1: it's never been broke. But it would be difficult for

2625
02:35:01,200 --> 02:35:03,640
Speaker 1: me right now if somebody said, oh, guess what them,

2626
02:35:04,440 --> 02:35:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, we want to induct you into the Rock

2627
02:35:06,040 --> 02:35:08,600
Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame? Are you were you available

2628
02:35:09,120 --> 02:35:11,200
Speaker 1: two months next Tuesday to come to l A and

2629
02:35:11,800 --> 02:35:13,360
Speaker 1: be to be there? And I'm afraid I would have

2630
02:35:13,400 --> 02:35:15,520
Speaker 1: to say I'm sorry, I'm not. I'm supposed to be

2631
02:35:16,200 --> 02:35:20,640
Speaker 1: supposed to be uh supposed to be playing in Santiago

2632
02:35:20,760 --> 02:35:23,880
Speaker 1: de Compostella in Spain that day, or I actually got

2633
02:35:23,959 --> 02:35:27,200
Speaker 1: to be in Moscow to do a show, um, or

2634
02:35:27,440 --> 02:35:30,840
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just washing my hair, but the chances are

2635
02:35:31,000 --> 02:35:33,040
Speaker 1: I would not be inclined, just as I didn't want to,

2636
02:35:33,440 --> 02:35:35,600
Speaker 1: even as the record company wanted to pay for the

2637
02:35:35,680 --> 02:35:38,080
Speaker 1: tickets for to fly us over to l A for

2638
02:35:38,160 --> 02:35:41,440
Speaker 1: the Grammy ceremony, which they would convincedly wouldn't win, so

2639
02:35:41,480 --> 02:35:43,480
Speaker 1: there's no point in wasting their money. But even if

2640
02:35:43,520 --> 02:35:46,480
Speaker 1: they had, I wouldn't really have wanted to go. I

2641
02:35:46,640 --> 02:35:48,800
Speaker 1: just don't really like long hold travel for the sake

2642
02:35:48,840 --> 02:35:53,160
Speaker 1: of it. I can I can be pressed, pushed, nudged

2643
02:35:53,280 --> 02:35:56,760
Speaker 1: onto an airplane if if I'm actually going to work

2644
02:35:56,840 --> 02:35:58,400
Speaker 1: and it's the band and the crew and we're all

2645
02:35:58,400 --> 02:36:01,880
Speaker 1: trying to earn a living. They are, But so just

2646
02:36:02,000 --> 02:36:04,800
Speaker 1: for the fun and games of some awards ceremony or something,

2647
02:36:05,280 --> 02:36:07,000
Speaker 1: my heart's not in it. I don't think I would

2648
02:36:07,000 --> 02:36:08,680
Speaker 1: want to go, and it would then be seen as

2649
02:36:08,800 --> 02:36:10,520
Speaker 1: very rude. If I had to turn around and say,

2650
02:36:10,640 --> 02:36:11,920
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't want to come. I don't

2651
02:36:11,959 --> 02:36:14,320
Speaker 1: want to do that. People were just thinking I was.

2652
02:36:14,480 --> 02:36:16,720
Speaker 1: It was sour grapes. I was just saying it because

2653
02:36:16,760 --> 02:36:21,360
Speaker 1: I was miffed. I was peeved that we've not been

2654
02:36:21,560 --> 02:36:23,520
Speaker 1: previously asked. So I'm in a bit of a no

2655
02:36:23,640 --> 02:36:28,760
Speaker 1: win situation there. But in telling you this, since you

2656
02:36:28,879 --> 02:36:30,480
Speaker 1: were listened to by a lot of people in the

2657
02:36:31,440 --> 02:36:34,440
Speaker 1: in the media and in the music business, it will

2658
02:36:34,480 --> 02:36:37,880
Speaker 1: hopefully serve as a warning to anybody in the both

2659
02:36:37,920 --> 02:36:41,200
Speaker 1: in the Grammy system and in the the Rock and

2660
02:36:41,320 --> 02:36:43,040
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame. There's no point in asking him

2661
02:36:43,040 --> 02:36:46,640
Speaker 1: because he's made it pretty clear he's not going to come. Well,

2662
02:36:46,680 --> 02:36:48,360
Speaker 1: there are a number of acts who have finally been

2663
02:36:48,440 --> 02:36:53,160
Speaker 1: inducted who didn't come, and uh, most notably Todd Rongwan

2664
02:36:53,240 --> 02:36:56,080
Speaker 1: in this last year. But without going down that path,

2665
02:36:56,200 --> 02:36:58,920
Speaker 1: I must admit that I was anxious about doing this.

2666
02:36:59,480 --> 02:37:02,000
Speaker 1: I only met you once, not that you would ever remember.

2667
02:37:02,080 --> 02:37:04,280
Speaker 1: I think the show was at the Kodak and it

2668
02:37:04,400 --> 02:37:07,119
Speaker 1: was after the show. I'm sophisticated enough to know it's

2669
02:37:07,240 --> 02:37:10,200
Speaker 1: very hard to come down, but you have a reputation

2670
02:37:10,920 --> 02:37:16,560
Speaker 1: as being somewhat difficult. So I am stunned that you're

2671
02:37:16,600 --> 02:37:20,720
Speaker 1: such a rack and tour and you're so loquacious. Now

2672
02:37:20,920 --> 02:37:22,680
Speaker 1: to me, I could talk to you till the end

2673
02:37:22,720 --> 02:37:24,800
Speaker 1: of time. I've given you more time than I've given

2674
02:37:24,800 --> 02:37:29,400
Speaker 1: anybody else. But you also say you're a loner. So

2675
02:37:30,120 --> 02:37:32,640
Speaker 1: is it that you don't suffer fools and there are

2676
02:37:32,680 --> 02:37:36,760
Speaker 1: certain people you'll talk to, or is it really you're

2677
02:37:36,800 --> 02:37:40,320
Speaker 1: talking to me but you'd rather be alone. Well, you know,

2678
02:37:41,840 --> 02:37:44,480
Speaker 1: part of it, you know, brutally it is. It's part

2679
02:37:44,520 --> 02:37:47,320
Speaker 1: of the job. You know, you've you've got to overcome

2680
02:37:47,520 --> 02:37:52,000
Speaker 1: that desire for a seclusion. You get on with it.

2681
02:37:52,120 --> 02:37:53,600
Speaker 1: You know, you just have to get on with doing it.

2682
02:37:53,680 --> 02:37:55,880
Speaker 1: And if you're gonna do it, do it graciously, do

2683
02:37:55,959 --> 02:37:59,160
Speaker 1: it nicely, smile on the face, cracking joe and trying

2684
02:37:59,200 --> 02:38:01,160
Speaker 1: to try to make in it, trying to be genuine,

2685
02:38:01,200 --> 02:38:02,760
Speaker 1: you know. So that's what I do. If I have

2686
02:38:02,840 --> 02:38:05,080
Speaker 1: to do meet and greets after a show, I grown,

2687
02:38:05,160 --> 02:38:08,600
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's one of checking my schedule. I'm

2688
02:38:08,640 --> 02:38:11,360
Speaker 1: meeting greet and I've got to do these things. It's

2689
02:38:11,440 --> 02:38:14,000
Speaker 1: Bob left Set guy. I've heard of him, yeah, And

2690
02:38:14,200 --> 02:38:15,880
Speaker 1: by fact that I mean I do remember meeting And

2691
02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:18,199
Speaker 1: my wife actually said to me today, said I remember

2692
02:38:18,240 --> 02:38:21,960
Speaker 1: meeting him backstage after a show. But you know, I'm

2693
02:38:22,040 --> 02:38:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm usually you won't find that many people who said

2694
02:38:26,320 --> 02:38:30,600
Speaker 1: I was shirlish or unfriendly or whatever. If if I

2695
02:38:30,640 --> 02:38:32,640
Speaker 1: say I'm going to say hello to somebody and meet somebody,

2696
02:38:32,720 --> 02:38:37,119
Speaker 1: I I do my best, you know, but but of course, privately,

2697
02:38:37,200 --> 02:38:40,200
Speaker 1: I'd probably just rather be, you know, I'd rather be

2698
02:38:40,280 --> 02:38:43,320
Speaker 1: heading back to the hotel and watching David Letterman, or

2699
02:38:43,760 --> 02:38:46,520
Speaker 1: or you know, getting to bed and going to sleep.

2700
02:38:46,600 --> 02:38:49,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just not naturally a gregarious and chumby guy.

2701
02:38:50,080 --> 02:38:52,160
Speaker 1: But if I'm going to do it, I'm going to

2702
02:38:52,200 --> 02:38:55,640
Speaker 1: try and do it properly. Because I've met a couple

2703
02:38:55,680 --> 02:38:59,120
Speaker 1: of people who've been churlish and unfriendly and and it's

2704
02:38:59,120 --> 02:39:01,720
Speaker 1: a huge just appointment when you when you actually do

2705
02:39:02,120 --> 02:39:07,120
Speaker 1: get the impression that someone just is prepared to be

2706
02:39:07,200 --> 02:39:09,440
Speaker 1: really rude to you and cut you off just because

2707
02:39:10,800 --> 02:39:14,120
Speaker 1: they're not in the mood. And and so I I

2708
02:39:14,240 --> 02:39:16,640
Speaker 1: am aware of how that comes across, because I feel

2709
02:39:16,640 --> 02:39:19,800
Speaker 1: pretty badly towards off top of my head, two or

2710
02:39:19,840 --> 02:39:23,200
Speaker 1: three famous people that I actually said, oh, hi, really

2711
02:39:23,280 --> 02:39:25,480
Speaker 1: nice to meet you, Ian Anderson from jether Hotel, and

2712
02:39:25,520 --> 02:39:27,240
Speaker 1: they just turned their back on me and walked away.

2713
02:39:27,240 --> 02:39:31,520
Speaker 1: And what what did I do? What did that what

2714
02:39:31,640 --> 02:39:35,039
Speaker 1: did I do to upset you? Van mentioned mentioning their names,

2715
02:39:35,560 --> 02:39:38,879
Speaker 1: and so it's a it's you know, I'm I'm aware

2716
02:39:38,879 --> 02:39:40,880
Speaker 1: of how much it kind of hurts if you if

2717
02:39:40,920 --> 02:39:44,440
Speaker 1: you're a fan of somebody and then they and they

2718
02:39:44,520 --> 02:39:48,800
Speaker 1: treat you in a off hand or a dismissive way,

2719
02:39:49,000 --> 02:39:52,600
Speaker 1: is quite hurtful. So I would hope there aren't too

2720
02:39:52,640 --> 02:39:55,440
Speaker 1: many people who would have that tale to tell about me,

2721
02:39:55,520 --> 02:39:56,920
Speaker 1: But a lot of people who will say, I know,

2722
02:39:57,000 --> 02:39:58,600
Speaker 1: he just doesn't like to meet people and like to

2723
02:39:58,600 --> 02:40:02,240
Speaker 1: say hello. He looks say they're probably right, but I wouldn't.

2724
02:40:02,480 --> 02:40:04,640
Speaker 1: I would hope they wouldn't. They won't be talking about

2725
02:40:04,680 --> 02:40:08,280
Speaker 1: personal experience as much as anecdotal stuff that goes around.

2726
02:40:08,400 --> 02:40:10,800
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm a pretty friendly guy to most

2727
02:40:10,879 --> 02:40:13,840
Speaker 1: people when i'm you know, when I when I have

2728
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:16,680
Speaker 1: to do it, when I'm confronted it was somebody stops

2729
02:40:16,720 --> 02:40:19,120
Speaker 1: me in the street. It's a fan, you know. And

2730
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:22,280
Speaker 1: most of the time I'm gonna say, hi, really nice

2731
02:40:22,280 --> 02:40:26,240
Speaker 1: to meet you, thank you, thanks for you know, buying

2732
02:40:26,240 --> 02:40:28,560
Speaker 1: a record or do whatever. But if they then produce,

2733
02:40:29,080 --> 02:40:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, twenty albums from a from a bag that

2734
02:40:32,320 --> 02:40:33,920
Speaker 1: I know, we're going to end up on eBay that

2735
02:40:33,959 --> 02:40:36,960
Speaker 1: I'm probably going to lose my tolerance fairly quickly. And

2736
02:40:37,040 --> 02:40:39,200
Speaker 1: in these COVID times, and I've had the experience of

2737
02:40:39,280 --> 02:40:41,960
Speaker 1: this during the last few months. Is it's really not

2738
02:40:42,120 --> 02:40:45,040
Speaker 1: a great time to be grabbing hold of me and

2739
02:40:45,879 --> 02:40:48,080
Speaker 1: trying to get me to sign things or hug me

2740
02:40:48,160 --> 02:40:51,120
Speaker 1: while you're doing a selfie. You know, we're in the

2741
02:40:51,160 --> 02:40:54,520
Speaker 1: middle of a pandemic right now, and I do not

2742
02:40:54,680 --> 02:40:56,160
Speaker 1: want to be the one who puts my band and

2743
02:40:56,240 --> 02:40:58,560
Speaker 1: crew out of work by getting COVID when I could

2744
02:40:58,560 --> 02:41:01,920
Speaker 1: avoid it. So, um, you know, I'm probably a little

2745
02:41:02,000 --> 02:41:07,480
Speaker 1: more inclined to be avoiding people right at the moment,

2746
02:41:07,600 --> 02:41:09,119
Speaker 1: and that may go on for some months to come.

2747
02:41:09,320 --> 02:41:12,160
Speaker 1: So I've tried to say two people, please, you know,

2748
02:41:12,879 --> 02:41:15,960
Speaker 1: from a distance, I will thank you and give you

2749
02:41:16,000 --> 02:41:17,800
Speaker 1: a smile and you won't see it because I'm wearing

2750
02:41:17,840 --> 02:41:20,400
Speaker 1: a mask, but I'm smiling at you. Trust me. But

2751
02:41:20,879 --> 02:41:22,920
Speaker 1: let's just leave it at there. That's just not trying

2752
02:41:23,000 --> 02:41:26,680
Speaker 1: to be too pressing about it. But what about your

2753
02:41:26,760 --> 02:41:29,920
Speaker 1: personal life? How social are you and your personal life?

2754
02:41:30,040 --> 02:41:32,760
Speaker 1: Is there anybody you email with every day or talk

2755
02:41:32,879 --> 02:41:35,320
Speaker 1: to every day? Do you go to dinner parties or

2756
02:41:35,440 --> 02:41:38,480
Speaker 1: you really more of a home body loaner. Well, I

2757
02:41:38,760 --> 02:41:41,280
Speaker 1: have a family and my my my daughter's family, and

2758
02:41:41,320 --> 02:41:44,640
Speaker 1: my son's family live you know, pretty close by, you know,

2759
02:41:44,920 --> 02:41:47,720
Speaker 1: quarter of an hour, half an hour, so we see

2760
02:41:47,760 --> 02:41:49,920
Speaker 1: them probably two or three times a week. My son

2761
02:41:50,000 --> 02:41:52,199
Speaker 1: in law comes almost every day to take the dogs

2762
02:41:52,240 --> 02:41:55,600
Speaker 1: for a walk. Since he's he's out of work even

2763
02:41:55,640 --> 02:42:00,040
Speaker 1: more than I am. Being a thespian and pandemic and

2764
02:42:00,200 --> 02:42:02,480
Speaker 1: other things have meant it's been very difficult for him

2765
02:42:02,520 --> 02:42:05,600
Speaker 1: to do the things that he's should have been during

2766
02:42:05,640 --> 02:42:08,720
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. But um, yeah, you know,

2767
02:42:08,760 --> 02:42:12,040
Speaker 1: we we were pretty close as a family and I

2768
02:42:12,280 --> 02:42:17,160
Speaker 1: we have a few friends, most of them long standing friends,

2769
02:42:18,240 --> 02:42:22,360
Speaker 1: not not in the music industry, but um but you know,

2770
02:42:22,440 --> 02:42:25,440
Speaker 1: I mean I exchanged emails recently with who who was it?

2771
02:42:26,480 --> 02:42:31,720
Speaker 1: Um Uh. Mark Armond from Soft Cell is a big buddy.

2772
02:42:31,959 --> 02:42:37,440
Speaker 1: Unlikely because of the age difference in the musical style difference,

2773
02:42:37,560 --> 02:42:39,960
Speaker 1: but but he's become a big friend in the last

2774
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:42,720
Speaker 1: few years and we do consciers together. He's a guest

2775
02:42:42,760 --> 02:42:45,040
Speaker 1: of mine on our cathedral shows every year when we

2776
02:42:45,959 --> 02:42:49,560
Speaker 1: do fundraises for churches and cathedrals and Tony Iomi, who

2777
02:42:49,680 --> 02:42:52,560
Speaker 1: sent me an email at Christmas and I must get

2778
02:42:52,600 --> 02:42:55,640
Speaker 1: together and have lunch. And you say these things, but

2779
02:42:55,920 --> 02:42:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, in reality, another year goes by, another two

2780
02:42:59,040 --> 02:43:01,520
Speaker 1: years go by, and you've sort of forgotten to do it.

2781
02:43:01,640 --> 02:43:04,440
Speaker 1: But I guess again, you know, if you're getting older,

2782
02:43:04,440 --> 02:43:07,600
Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, if I don't have lunch with Tony,

2783
02:43:07,760 --> 02:43:09,600
Speaker 1: one of us is going to pop off sometime soon.

2784
02:43:09,720 --> 02:43:13,160
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not like we're lifelong friends, but

2785
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:17,200
Speaker 1: we've known each other since nine a little bit, you know,

2786
02:43:17,280 --> 02:43:19,959
Speaker 1: and he's one of those people that you know, he's

2787
02:43:19,959 --> 02:43:24,359
Speaker 1: a good guy. And you know other people I suppose,

2788
02:43:24,600 --> 02:43:30,840
Speaker 1: um um that I don't really communicate with that that much,

2789
02:43:30,959 --> 02:43:34,120
Speaker 1: but there are a few people who are not necessarily musicians,

2790
02:43:34,200 --> 02:43:37,480
Speaker 1: but you know, politicians or sports people or journalists and

2791
02:43:37,640 --> 02:43:40,760
Speaker 1: people that I particularly at Christmas. You know, emails and

2792
02:43:41,600 --> 02:43:45,119
Speaker 1: best wishes fly back and forth for a few days

2793
02:43:45,240 --> 02:43:50,280
Speaker 1: of Christmas and New Year. Um. But it's um, you know,

2794
02:43:50,400 --> 02:43:53,680
Speaker 1: it's it's just in balance. Really, I suppose probably true

2795
02:43:53,720 --> 02:43:56,760
Speaker 1: to say I have less less less of a a

2796
02:43:56,840 --> 02:44:00,400
Speaker 1: gregarious social life on a personal level than your average person.

2797
02:44:00,520 --> 02:44:05,160
Speaker 1: But it's not entirely absent um. It does, it does,

2798
02:44:06,520 --> 02:44:08,840
Speaker 1: it does get tempered, however, by the fact that at

2799
02:44:08,920 --> 02:44:12,640
Speaker 1: this particular point in time, getting together for a boozy

2800
02:44:12,760 --> 02:44:16,320
Speaker 1: lunch is probably not a good idea, since we and

2801
02:44:16,720 --> 02:44:19,040
Speaker 1: in your country were in the throes of the O

2802
02:44:19,200 --> 02:44:23,680
Speaker 1: macron dynamic surge. And although there are some signs at

2803
02:44:23,760 --> 02:44:27,280
Speaker 1: least where I live that things are tapering off. I mean,

2804
02:44:27,280 --> 02:44:30,680
Speaker 1: our infection rate would appear to have gone down to

2805
02:44:31,560 --> 02:44:34,440
Speaker 1: just over half during the last two weeks, which from

2806
02:44:34,600 --> 02:44:38,680
Speaker 1: very high levels, but it does appear to be seriously

2807
02:44:38,760 --> 02:44:41,920
Speaker 1: on the turn, and hopefully hospitalizations and deaths will soon follow,

2808
02:44:42,760 --> 02:44:44,800
Speaker 1: and maybe in you know, a week or two, you'll

2809
02:44:44,840 --> 02:44:47,120
Speaker 1: see the same thing at least in some US states

2810
02:44:47,800 --> 02:44:50,400
Speaker 1: that it is beginning to drop, and there are signs

2811
02:44:50,480 --> 02:44:53,920
Speaker 1: of that already in Europe. Europe in the US seemed

2812
02:44:53,920 --> 02:44:55,520
Speaker 1: to have been about three or four weeks behind the

2813
02:44:55,680 --> 02:45:01,879
Speaker 1: UK all the way through this um and apart from Italy,

2814
02:45:01,959 --> 02:45:04,720
Speaker 1: which started off very badly, but we all caught up

2815
02:45:04,760 --> 02:45:07,480
Speaker 1: with that pretty quickly. But since then Britain has tended

2816
02:45:07,520 --> 02:45:10,560
Speaker 1: to be one of the most infected countries with the

2817
02:45:10,640 --> 02:45:15,080
Speaker 1: highest impact on on our lives, and the rest have

2818
02:45:15,240 --> 02:45:18,000
Speaker 1: been you know, three four or five six weeks behind

2819
02:45:18,600 --> 02:45:22,600
Speaker 1: and so and then some European countries are even further

2820
02:45:22,720 --> 02:45:25,280
Speaker 1: behind and O Macron has not even really got there yet.

2821
02:45:25,360 --> 02:45:29,199
Speaker 1: So and their countries with you know, maybe twenty thcent

2822
02:45:29,360 --> 02:45:32,480
Speaker 1: vaccination rates, Boy, are they going to be in big trouble.

2823
02:45:33,560 --> 02:45:36,600
Speaker 1: But you know, I think in America, I've spoke to

2824
02:45:36,720 --> 02:45:39,240
Speaker 1: sending email from my American agents a few days ago

2825
02:45:39,400 --> 02:45:42,800
Speaker 1: suggesting some periods of times have come back, and there

2826
02:45:42,840 --> 02:45:44,640
Speaker 1: are a few shows in the USA in two thousand

2827
02:45:44,680 --> 02:45:46,960
Speaker 1: and twenty three, and I'd be reasonably confident that that

2828
02:45:47,080 --> 02:45:51,440
Speaker 1: can happen. As I'm hopeful, if not entirely confident, that

2829
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:54,440
Speaker 1: most of the shows in two thousand and twenty two

2830
02:45:55,640 --> 02:46:01,160
Speaker 1: we'll go ahead, albeit some of them will have been rescheduled. Um.

2831
02:46:01,360 --> 02:46:04,440
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm trying to be optimistic about all

2832
02:46:04,480 --> 02:46:05,720
Speaker 1: of this, But at the same time, I've got to

2833
02:46:05,760 --> 02:46:13,120
Speaker 1: be realistic and be prepared to to go um begging

2834
02:46:13,200 --> 02:46:15,640
Speaker 1: the airlines for a refund on the tickets you bought

2835
02:46:15,680 --> 02:46:20,040
Speaker 1: that you know can't use. Actually managed just two days

2836
02:46:20,080 --> 02:46:22,560
Speaker 1: ago I finally got a refund from the very last

2837
02:46:22,840 --> 02:46:25,320
Speaker 1: flights that I had not been refund if I finally

2838
02:46:25,400 --> 02:46:29,400
Speaker 1: came through and they were from May two thousand and twenty.

2839
02:46:30,120 --> 02:46:34,000
Speaker 1: I finally got the refunds two days ago. They actually

2840
02:46:34,040 --> 02:46:36,840
Speaker 1: paid up brilliant, you know, so there is some honor

2841
02:46:36,920 --> 02:46:40,200
Speaker 1: even amongst thieves. I wouldn't go that far. Yeah, I

2842
02:46:40,240 --> 02:46:43,520
Speaker 1: had a flight like just after COVID began. I was

2843
02:46:43,600 --> 02:46:45,480
Speaker 1: stunned when they gave me my money back, which was

2844
02:46:45,600 --> 02:46:48,840
Speaker 1: over a year. In any event, Ian, this has been wonderful.

2845
02:46:49,400 --> 02:46:52,880
Speaker 1: Listen to the tracks that were already outside city Sisters.

2846
02:46:53,000 --> 02:46:56,000
Speaker 1: I really like I look forward to seeing you live again.

2847
02:46:56,400 --> 02:46:58,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure even more you look forward to being on

2848
02:46:59,040 --> 02:47:01,440
Speaker 1: the road. Thanks so much for taking the time. A

2849
02:47:01,560 --> 02:47:03,400
Speaker 1: great pleasure. Nice too, Nice to see you and talk

2850
02:47:03,440 --> 02:47:06,840
Speaker 1: to you, and great to see you're still as active

2851
02:47:07,000 --> 02:47:11,760
Speaker 1: and there's much a voice to be listened to amongst

2852
02:47:12,120 --> 02:47:15,840
Speaker 1: fans and the industry alike. So you keep at it

2853
02:47:15,920 --> 02:47:19,840
Speaker 1: and become filled with the same desperation as I am

2854
02:47:19,959 --> 02:47:21,760
Speaker 1: that it's not time to quit. Yes, and there's more

2855
02:47:21,840 --> 02:47:23,720
Speaker 1: to do. No, no, no, no. I'm not quite as

2856
02:47:23,800 --> 02:47:26,680
Speaker 1: old as you, but I'm feeling it and I'm not retired.

2857
02:47:26,720 --> 02:47:28,800
Speaker 1: You know. This is my one and only so in

2858
02:47:28,840 --> 02:47:31,880
Speaker 1: any event, thanks so much until next time. This is

2859
02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:32,879
Speaker 1: bad WEPST